The Bobby Bones Show - Lots to Say: Super Bowl Odds and SB Champion Vernon Davis

Episode Date: November 12, 2025

Bobby Bones and Matt Cassel discuss playing through injuries as Matt has had a few QB hand injuries.  Bobby asks about playing in bad weather and how WR's adapt to catch the ball.  Matt reveals what was most irritating to him during a game with his receivers.  What do Bobby and Matt make of the Giants moving on from head coach Brian Daboll?   Joe Burrow is back to practice but can the Bengals get back in the playoff mix?  Matt is impressed with Dan Campbell calling plays for the Lions.  Bobby rolls through the odds for teams to win the Super Bowl. There are concerns with the Bills and Bobby is rooting for small market teams like the Colts.  Bobby wonders if the Chiefs lose again this season? Bobby and Matt pick their favorite three games in Week 11. Super Bowl Champion Vernon Davis talks about his life after football and what he's doing now.  Vernon traces his steps through high school to being a 6th overall pick in 2006.  Vernon explains his relationship with Mike Singletary and their feud in 2008 that changed him as a player and a person. Vernon recalls playing alongside Alex Smith and Colin Kaepernick.  Vernon talks about his DWTS experience and wanting to go home.  Vernon relives being traded to the Broncos, getting a call from Peyton Manning, and how it led to winning a championship. Vernon wraps it up with when he knew it was time to retire from the NFL.  Lots to Say with Bobby Bones and Matt Cassel is part of the NFL Podcast Network See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Search 40s and free agents and listen now. Lots to say with Bobby Bones and Matt Castle is a production of the NFL and IHeart Podcasts. We got lots to say. Yeah, we got lots to say. Now here's Bobby and Matt. Hey, what's happening, everybody? Vernon Davis coming up in just a little bit.

I will say that whenever you saw my foot, I'm going to cast right now. I had ankle surgery. and Castle did the most athlete thing ever. He comes up and looks in and sees my toes and goes, you're doing okay. You're doing okay. Those are definitely.

Yeah, I've had a foot injury before, and I know that those things can get black and blue and swollen. I just remember my toes being three times the size they should. And I'm like, oh, they look all right. They're not all gangrene and like peeling. Mine was like peeling off. How are you feeling, by the way? What a gamer you are.

I'm good. The pain medicine messes me up. Oh, I'm sure. So I only take it right. before I go to bed, which means I wake up and do the morning show and I'm out of it. It would feel like the first half of the morning show. But then as the pain starts to set back in, I get kind of my bearings thinking and talking, but then the pain is setting in.

So it's very much you give or take. But I'm fine. I just thought it was hilarious because everybody else who's seeing, I have a massive cast on my foot. They've been like, oh, how's it going? And you walk in and go, let me see your toes. Let me see your toes, buddy. And you're like, but you're good. You're good, big boy.

They look pretty good. It looks pretty good. So the pain's been pretty substantial? No, it's just constant. You just have no blood flow down to that area. Yeah, I actually am very grateful that it doesn't hurt worse. But it's like, you know, I have a toothache or an earache. And it's not that it has to be killing you.

No, it just doesn't go away. It just doesn't go away. But I'm good. Yeah, you VAT had to actually play with injuries. Me, I'm playing, but I'm talking. Like, if you have a foot injury or a hand injury, that's got to be the worst as a quarterback, right? Oh, that's the worst.

I mean, I've, I had two-hand surgeries. one, both of them put me on IR for a little bit. Actually, the first one did, because I spiral fractured my, I don't know what bone this is, but I still have screws in there. You can kind of see them come up right there. Oh, you can, yeah. So I get back in the huddle and my finger is literally stuck behind my middle finger. So it was on a third down, get tackled by Dumerville from Denver.

But I just landed funny. And I got up and my finger was stuck. And I was like, all right, it's fort down. We're going to go for it. It's later in the game. So we should go for it. I get the ball. And I can't move my index finger, which is the most important finger on the ball.

And we run like these crossing routes and he's going to be man. Of course they go zone. So I scramble up. I don't get the first down. Everybody's yelling at me on the side. I just throw the ball. I was like there was nobody open number one, number two.

I don't know where the ball would have gone if I tried to throw. So I get over the sideline. I get over the sideline I tell Brody cry out. I'm like, hey, bud, will you get the dock? So he goes, gets him. And he goes, what's going on? I was like, well, my finger won't move. And I can't seem to separate it.

He's like, well, where's it hurt? I was like right here. and he starts going. I was like, yeah, it hurts a little bit. And he goes, well, can you throw? I was like, no, I wouldn't have got you over here if I could throw the ball. He's like, let's go on and score spiral fracture. The other one was I hit a helmet, dislocated my thumb.

They had to go put it back into place and put pins in there for nine weeks. But that was at least before season. It's just, you never got the full strength back because even doing this early on was brutal. I feel like that hitting the helmet when throwing for a quarterback is like the most unfortunate. injury. Oh, yeah. Because there's really not a lot you can do. It just kind of accidentally happens. It accidentally happens. And I've done it. I've had stitches on three different knuckles here just from hitting a helmet. Luckily, I didn't break anything, but there's just one time. We're actually in spring ball. We're in shells. Jarrell Casey's rushing Taylor LeWan and gets pushed back

in my lap. I throw the ball and just hit the top of his helmet. And immediately this thing pops out of joint. And you knew right then? Immediately. Because I looked at my thumb, I got, that's not good. And you're kind of in shock a little bit and they said, do you want us to pop it? And I was like, no, not yet. I want to go to the hospital, get some medicine and numb it up. And so went in and they popped it back in, but they obviously, because it tears out all the,

I don't know if it's cartilage, ligament, whatever it is. And so they had to go up to pin it. And that was wonderful. Yeah, it sucks. It sucks, dude. And there's nothing worse than foot and hand injuries because it just throbs. That's what I'm dealing with now. Just constant throbbing.

Do you have any ice machine or anything that you get to? to get to wrap that bad boy up then? So I can't put ice on it. So what the doctor has me doing is putting ice like on my knee as close to it as possible. Never heard of that before in my life. Me either. At least your knee's not going to be swollen. It's not.

I'm good. Everything else is wrapped up. It looks like it is in a parka here. I feel like I'm good. I'm just dealing with it. I just thought I would be better by now. Even though we're three days out of it, four days out of it, I really thought I'd be back on my feet by now. Really?

What is the expectation going in? The expectation was the doctor said you'll spend about a week and a half in a hard cast. And then if you have moved past that, we'll put you in a walking boot. And I know we're four days in, but I'm usually ahead of the curve. Yeah, because you're a healer. So I just thought, yes, I just thought I would be there. You're just, you're ready to get back out there and you're not. I'm drinking a little drink here.

I saw that. I don't drink coffee. Yeah, what is that? But what I have to do is stay awake because my sleep schedule is so jacked up from this injury. and I'm taking pain medicine to go to sleep. If I fall asleep and take a nap in the middle of the day, you're done for it. I'm done.

I'm taking pain medicine. Then I'm awake on pain medicine. So this is some sort of espresso shot. Yeah. It's like the most European feminine coffee drink you can have. If it has caffeine in it, I'm in. So this is what I'm having. It's like a cinnamon tonic espresso shot.

Okay, that's not what I expected. I thought you meant like it was an espresso shot. No, it's a cinnamon tonic. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. With elderberry. Absolutely. Elderberry flour in it. I've taken everything masculine out of it and tried to water it down.

And I don't, I don't drink coffee. Like I've never, I never been tasted coffee until like five or six years ago. Like five hours ago when you made that. It's tough. I ordered this. Oh, did you? Yeah. Yeah.

They actually serve it in that cup. Yeah. In this little feminine cup. And I drink on my pinky up like this. Yep. You sure do. What is your coffee drink in the morning? I usually am a black coffee guy and I'll put.

cayenne pepper in it and a dab of salt. You're out of your mind. You're lying. I swear to God. That's like what you say if you want to have the most masculine drink ever. No, I do that because they say it helps with blood circulation. Wait, so tell me about your drink again. It's black coffee.

Black coffee. And then I put cayenne pepper in it, a dab of cayenne pepper and a little salt to kill the acidity. And then drink that bad boy down and probably will have two of them. Doesn't that seem like what you would say if you were trying to prove a point by having the most masculine coffee ever, Kevin? Absolutely. I've never even heard of them.

I thought he was joking. You're welcome. You're welcome, you guys. He was like a portion of car battery. Car battery acid. All the benefits of cayenne pepper. There's a lot of it. It's all about blood circulation.

Oh, I believe you. Yes. I thought you were just... No, I'm being dead serious. There's a TikTok I saw yesterday where these guys going to a coffee shop and it's two like big bearded masculine men. And they go on and they're like,

we'll take two of your blackest coffees. And she's like, okay, and they say this out loud. And they hand her a note. And on the note, it's like 11 things to add. Squirt of Adela. They're like, please keep this quiet. I thought it was pretty funny. Yeah.

It was pretty funny the other day. I get a text message for my brother-in-law. It's my wife's brother, obviously, brother-in-law. And he goes, A, Cass, who do you think could throw a better spiral? Bobby or me? And it was the most random text. He must have seen when we were going through the other video of us going through our grips. And I was like, I've seen you throw a football.

And there has not been one point in all the years that we've gone out and thrown the football. used to catch routes for me in the off season, like I used to bring friends out, that I've ever seen you throw a consistent spiral. So I'm going to go with Bobby, even though I haven't seen him throw. And I've also seen his grip, which looks like a pretty fair grip. So I'm going to go with Bobby. He's like, dude, I've been in the backyard ripping it. He's like, I've been in the backyard ripping. You wouldn't even believe what I've got going on right now. And I start laughing. I go, dude, Nerf footballs don't count. So I definitely, I went with you after the grip discussion for sure. I don't even feel like you pick me because of anything.

I did. I feel like you just didn't pick him because you played with him. No, I've actually seen him throw a football. And so the kid, it was phenomenal. Four-year star at USC as a setter on the volleyball team. But when you give him a football on his hand, I mean, he just can't turn that ball over to save his life. Could he catch? He could catch. But early on, I would throw some, I'd have him throw, like a run a slant, and I'd throw it to him, and he'd take it right off the chest. Body shot it. Yeah. And he was one of those guys that was always really fit, so he'd run routes without his shirt on, just red marks all over.

all over himself, but I appreciated it. One of the games this weekend, and you say that, there was a game where it was very rainy. I didn't put this on my nose. Was the Jets game super rainy? There was a body pass,

a guy tried to get off his body, and he ended up dropping the ball because it was raining so hard. Was that ever like an unspoken with your tight ends or wide receiver? Like, try to keep it near my body if it's raining so I can use my body to catch it? Yeah, a lot of times those guys

are not as confidence, obviously, with hands catching because the conditions and that might have been Chicago, right? Was that Chicago and the Jets? I don't know if that was the game where it rained. Camping New England was raining in the beginning? Yeah, there was even the game the, was the commanders? Was that game raining?

It doesn't matter. The weather has sucked everywhere because it's been cold and wet. But I wonder if that's ever like a mindset with the quarterback too. Like they're going to have to start catching with their body more because it's raining. You absolutely want to try to put it on their body because a lot of times that's the one time that it's acceptable to try to catch it against your body because the ball will just go through your hands

in certain type of conditions when it's slippery, when it's wet. And a lot of those guys will take off those gloves. And that's what happened here. Right, because the gloves, they're meant to be in warm weather or at least not that type of condition because otherwise they get super slick. So they might keep it on for a second

and then they'll see them drop a ball. Then they'll take them off and it'll be like, well, we told you not to wear gloves, but they're not used to doing it because they usually play with gloves all the time. But that was a big thing. And then also just throws over the middle you wanted to keep it underneath their face mass, especially for backs and tight ends,

because a lot of times those guys have bigger pads. So you run the risk of when you throw it high, even a little bit above their head, that that ball is going to go through their head and they can't get their hands up to get it. And that's when tips happen in interception. So we constantly talked about that, especially bad weather situations. Would there ever be a time where if you let a receiver a little too much or a little too high, they would come back and you would apologize? Like, shouldn't have done that?

No, I say you should have caught that ball. Like, what the hell are we doing? Like that was in the realm. Like if you get your hands on it, that's on you. But let's be honest. And then when you go to the press conference and you're like, yeah, the ball was high and it got tipped an interception. Yeah, that was on me.

I got to do a better job. No, I would always try. I always played the card with my guys, try to be as fair as possible. I would get on them about depth of the route, coming out of their route on certain stuff. And I'd try to get on them on that and hold them accountable. But when I messed up and I missed the throw, I was the first one to say, hey, that's on me.

I'll get you a better ball. because they respect that, right? If you take ownership and your failures because we're all going to make mistakes, especially physical mistakes, mental mistakes were the things that I couldn't handle because we know better and that messes with the rhythm of the past play

and where you're supposed to bleed, the timing, everything else. But when you make a physical mistake, say you slip coming out of a route, look, that's going to happen. Or if I'm going to miss a throw every now and then or just throw an interception because I didn't see the defender,

and I'll take full responsibility for that. What was it to you as a quarterback that you would get most irritated at? Like a little thing a receiver wouldn't do right, but it was like the thing that bothered you the most? There was, probably there's two things. If we had a conversion on a route, so a lot of times you talk about on the outside,

sometimes you have a hitch that may convert versus roll coverage. So you're not going to still run that hitch because it's tight man coverage and we don't want to run. That's a verse off coverage. But sometimes these guys wouldn't be, paying attention or a wide receiver wouldn't pay attention, all of a sudden you get a bail technique. Well, you're still running that hitch, and I'm thinking you're going to run the hitch because I see it. And all of a sudden, you are still running the go route. So conversion routes were

one thing for me, and then always depth of target, because we would just over and over meticulously go through the depth of a route. And a lot of times it's those high, low situations. When I say that, I mean, you've got the slot defender going up to five yards and he's sitting down. But behind, him, we're running an end cut. And it's got to be 16 yards. Because if it's not, there's not enough separation between that backer. That backer can literally cover two people because there's not enough room to throw it over them.

So you have to get that depth in order for me to throw it over the backer or throw it into a window. And if you're short, then immediately the entire route concept goes awry. What about if you're trying to draw the defense off sides? Did you ever try that without an actual offensive play called and someone still jump? Oh, it happens a lot. I mean, we would sometimes not even give a play in the helmet, and we'd have a live, like, word or something like that. Now it's for real.

And all we were trying to do was go through a double cadence because a lot of times teams will go through, why did he, why did he said, huh? And then they know the second one's live. But we'd go through two full cadences to get them to jump. And a lot of times it would be very effective. And I'd get the live color or whatever it was, and we knew the play, but nobody was supposed to jump.

And constantly, whether it was double cadence or whether it was that situation, and I wouldn't say constantly, but you would often have somebody jump off sides. I'm like, I didn't even give you a play. Like, where are you running? Like, what are you shooting out to block right now? Because I have yet to give you the play at the line scrimmage, because a lot of times we'd hold the play. I wouldn't even give them a play in the headset.

I'd say, hey, wait for me. I mean, in the huddle, I'd say, wait for me to go. it through the two cadences and then I will give you what the play is at the line of scrimmage because you have all the different signals and stuff and every now and then guys would jump it I'll be like I just don't understand it's kind of like the Vikings game they were at home the other day I think they had eight fall start penalties at home that's absurd and some of that might be people getting used to JJ McCarthy and his cadence but

to have eight at home is completely completely I don't even know what to say. It's a disaster. Even eight on the road seems like way too many. But to have it at home with, because Cadence is supposed to be a weapon and a factor for the offense. And when you have eight at home,

that is just ridiculous. I felt like Justin Jefferson wanted to kill him. Yes, kill everybody. It was not a good week for J.J. McCarcy. No, it was not. Nine. It was not a good week for nine. That's the character he gets into it.

Nine. Matt. Let's go back and forth. I want you to go first because, you know, right before we started taping this show, we learned that day ball was fired. So I have you talk about that. I know you know them. Like, what do you know? What do I know? Well, I know that he was fired like the rest of us do at this point. And I think that it's a result-oriented business. I get it. But when he inherited that team in 2002, I mean, they had won 14 games in the previous three seasons. And he comes in and they go to the playoffs. I think they were 9, 7, and 1

or something like that that first year. They won a playoff game. But then I think the second round of that playoffs is when they got beat down by the Eagles, and then the losing just kind of continued and we're never able to get on. I think some of it was Daniel Jones and at the same time, him not being healthy the entire tenure.

And then when you go into this season, there was higher expectations, but still there was a quarterback controversy. And when you saw Jackson Dart go in the game, I think that you saw progress from this offense but then again you lose Malik neighbors, your number one wide receiver. You lose Scataboo,

who was obviously a guy that came in and was an impact player. And I think it's also the way in which they lost those games. But I don't put it all on table because at the end of the day, in most of those games, they were up two scores at some point in the game. And defensively, they couldn't get the stop and win. And unfortunately for him, it was just too much losing because right now what did they set?

Eight. Two and eight. two and eight and they're ready to make a change. And I think the next hire, though, is going to be a very important hire because of the development of Jackson Dart. Yeah, I feel like that we saw enough growth in Dart and again, losing Malik neighbors, scatibu coming, making an impact, and then again, that flamed quick. It was awesome for a second. And then he got hurt. But I felt like that enough earned him at least another year. Right. And that's what I felt was, that's what they were trending toward.

And I think some of it, too, might have been the fact that Jackson Dart got hurt. And, you know, everybody's talking about the fact, well, they ran him too much. They put them in harm's way. But their most successful plays this last weekend was the design QB runs. And so he's doing everything in his power to put this team in a position to win and score points. And they took advantage of Jackson Dart's athleticism and ability to run. And unfortunately, he took the wrong hit at the wrong time.

and it resulted in a concussion, took him out of the game, and really changed the momentum of that game. But I don't put that on dayball because at any given point, any player can get hurt, and we've seen it. Do you feel like it was premature to fire him?

Would you have given him another year? I think that you would have to play this season out. I would have let him play this season out, to be honest with you, and see where you could take this thing by the end of the year, because I do think the offense looked completely different with Jackson Dart on the field,

even minus those injuries to keep players on the end of the end. offensive side. But I mean, with ownership there, and the other part is the GM didn't get fired. Right. Right. The GM doesn't get fired. He gets to stay. And so it's just an interesting dynamic that they're going to keep him because he's the one that hired dayball. Normally, that goes hand in hand. You're getting rid of both those guys. You're going to start a whole new regime change, basically the GM head coach and start over. So it'll be interesting to see what they do there.

I looked up the odds to see who the next head coach would be for the Giants. The leader right now, is Mike McCarthy. And I think McCarthy brings you stability. Yep. Not a super high ceiling. I think a... I would say a three-quarter ceiling. I think you can win.

He won with the Cowboys. Right. He obviously won with Packers. Yes. He's one of the names being mentioned for the Titans job because you just got to have some sort of stability.

But what's tough is to have a stable head coach but the instability of the organization. Right. And there is instability. but I'd say this, when you look at the defensive side of the ball, that's the part that is a little bit frustrating for me

when you look at the Giants because they have, what, three first rounders on that defensive line between Burns, Tibado, and Abdel Carter from this year. And they've got dudes all over that defense, but they're not getting it done on that side of the ball. Because I think that if they stood up and made a few stops on any part of these games, their record would be major difference in terms of wins versus losses. And that might have saved Dayball's job.

So, but in terms of Mike McCarthy, I like the fact that he's offensive-minded. I like the fact that he's won every place that he's been. And he does bring some stability. And he's got respect of most people that are in the league. I feel like you could be the most stable coach. But if you're in an unstable environment, there's only so much good you can do. There's a reason the Giants haven't won in 100 years. There's a reason the Jets haven't won in 100 years.

There's the reason the Raiders haven't won in 100 years. And it's not the coach. Right. Because I think Davele's a good coach. I think he'll go somewhere and win. Right. He may go be OC for a couple of years somewhere else, but I don't think this hurts him as a coach to be fired from the Giants.

If anything, I think it gives him a shot to go be successful somewhere else, somewhere where the organization has a bit more stability. Right. And I don't think that the Giants organization is a place they can go out and get a young coach, a first-time head coach, because of the nature of that media market. And if you don't have success right away, they're going to eat you alive.

And you have to be so mentally tough to be able to handle that at the same time, like you said, instability within the organization itself and the lack of winning consistently, that's a tough organization to go to if you're a first time head coach. Clint Kubiak, second, spags, third. There's two more on the list in the top 10.

Robert Sala, which, by the way, if I'm Sala, I do not want to go back to New York. I don't want to go back to New York. For any reason. I hate everybody in the media there, right? Yeah. He's like, dude, you guys killed me. And also, like, both of those New York teams,

there's a reason they don't win because the owners are too medley. Right. We should know who the owners are unless you're a diehard fan. Diehard. And they're in the mix every time. And because they make headlines for the wrong reasons. Yes.

They wanted to fire Dayball, like before they even came back. Did you guys see that? And they talked him out of it on the plane, like from Denver, maybe. They played Denver the week before? Yeah. Denver was a few weeks ago. Yeah, whenever that game was, they wanted to fire him after that game on the plane before they even came back.

And they talked the owner out of it. They did play at Denver, but that was like four weeks ago. That's when they wanted to fire him the first time. They blew that big game. Yeah, that's when they wanted to fire him. Lane Kiffin also makes the list. But Lane's up for every job, in HR, every college coach. Every college coach.

Anybody that needs a coach or anything like that, they want Lane Kiffin. And I understand the connection to with Jackson Dart. He just had them in college and it was his coach and had a lot of success. So I get that, but I don't think Lane wants any part of that. I don't do that. The 2026 NFL draft is here. the NFL Daily podcast has it covered from all angles. Join me, Greg Rosenthal, and Jordan Roderig after night one on Thursday. Nick Shook joins me night two Friday and then Sunday to

recap everything that went down over the three days in Pittsburgh. We'll tell you who won the draft and which players were my favorite picks. Listen to NFL Daily with Greg Rosenthal on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I'm Daniel Jeremiah. And I'm Greg Rosenthal. And this is 40s and free agents. The games may be over, but the NFL never stopped. This is my favorite part of the calendar. Yeah, mine too, Greg, free agency, the combine, the NFL draft pro days, trades. This is where teams reshape their future. This is where Daniel Jeremiah makes his money. On 40s and free agents, we break down every move that actually matters. From my draft evaluations, mock drafts, and team fits to my top 101 free agents and how real rosters are built, caps,

based contracts and all the tough decisions included. You got quarterbacks on the move? We got teams rebuilding. It's hope season. Yeah, absolutely. It's hope season. We'll tell you what's real, what's noise, and what it means for your favorite team. Smart analysis, real conversations every week.

I don't know about the smart, but definitely analysis. Listen to 40s and free agents on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Joe Burrow returns to practice. It's all the video. Yes. It was so lack of sensation. I thought it was a joke. Yeah, look at Joe. He's standing on the field.

Well, he walks through and he's just like slowly walks through this head down. I was surprised they even post that on social media because there was so nothing about it. They're just building excitement. It was just him walking like into the facility with his helmet and his hand with his head down. So the team opened him up, the 21 day window to return from IR. The question is, can the Bengals get back in it? Now, they're three and six. They're third in the AFC North.

He hopes to return on Thanksgiving against the Ravens, which could be a big game. The Ravens are by far the favorite to win that division. Right now, isn't that crazy? Yeah. I mean, they were the favorite. The last week that Lamar didn't play, they were still the favorite because he was coming back the next week.

Right. Like, they've been the favorite in that division the whole time, even though the Steelers have been ahead of them. The Bengals are playing the Steelers, Patriots, the Ravens. And that Ravens game will be the game that possibly he comes back. So I think if they win one of the two, there's a good shot he comes back, right?

Yes, I think if he can play, I do believe he does come back this season. But if it's over, would you even rush him back like Jaden Daniels? I wouldn't bring him back and watch him for a hundred. Yeah, if he's 100% and he can run around and be himself, then I'd say, yes, you're the franchise quarterback. You've worked your way back in the lineup.

100% get out there and play. But, I mean, it's going to be tough because the Ravens are one game back from the Steelers, and they've got the Browns, the Jets, and the Bengals coming up. I mean, those are three winnable games and they could easily be in first place at that point. And I don't think there's any looking back as long as they're healthy.

So let's say, I'm just going to throw this out, let's say they beat the Steelers. They lose to the Patriots. That puts them at 4 and 7 playing the Ravens. So Joe Burroughs back at 4 and 7. Let's just say they win because he's back. They're 5 and 7. They're playing the bills. I'll probably lose that. They're 5 and 8. They're playing

the Ravens again. Let's give him another win. 6 and 8. The Dolphins, they'll win that. 7 and 8. The Cardinals, they'll win that. 8 and 8 and 8. Browns. 9 and 8. It's like last year when they had to win every game. So there is a shot that they make the playoffs if the Joe Flacco

Bengals can beat the Steelers. Which he's already proven he can do. Yeah, they have to go to Pittsburgh this time, though. Oh, yeah. But, I mean, after watching the Steelers, they're not good. After watching Steelers against the Chargers, I mean, I was like, man, this doesn't look good. I mean, are we thinking the Bengals can do it?

Are we thinking the Bengals can hop back in this thing? Come on. Let's go. Last year was fun. They did not hop back in. They did win, but it wasn't enough. And I think they went nine and eight last year. I'm going from memory. I think they ended up going nine and eight winning all those games at the end,

but they did not get in the playoffs. But Joe Burle, got to stay healthy. Is that right? Nine and eight. Nine and eight. All right, what did he got their second topic for us? I watched this Lions game last week. I'll tell you, Dan Campbell, call him plays.

I'm into it because what did he say that they have to do? They have to get Gibbs involved more. They did. Jameson Williams got him involved more. the offense just looked like they were on a roll completely in sync. And I know that they were going up against the commanders whose defenses had the struggles and this, that and the other. But at the end of the day, that offense and how it operated looked like the offense of old.

So I'm pretty stoked about Campbell coming back in, taking over play calling responsibility, because I think it's going to make them better down the line. I'm looking at the odds to win the Super Bowl. The lions are plus 750 in third place. So right now, if you're betting, the lions are the third favorite. To win the Super Bowl Yep Okay

Who do you think Number 1 is right now To win the Super Bowl The betting favorite right now I'm gonna go with the L.A. Rams Nice selection They are at number two They're number two

Seattle Seahawks And number five So what's crazy And I'll walk you back First of all Both of you guys's team The Patriots Tenth

No respect The Patriots are 10th I love it I love it dude Keep it going Feel that fire baby You go on the road and you beat the bucks on on the road.

I mean, that was a huge win for that team and the legitimacy and also the narrative around that team. Okay, keep going. So, or we can say fifth in the AFC, whatever you want to do, but they're 10th right now. Okay. I do feel like as a non-biased person, that seems to be a little low.

I think they should be up a bit. At 9, the Packers, I got to tell you something, you're going to have to reconvince me that the Packers are good. Yes. What a terrible game. That was terrible. And I'm only watching on my app because I have YouTube TV so I can't even watch it,

because they've taken all the channels off. Yeah. And you think it was boring to watch the actual players play. Imagine watching just like the cartoon characters. It was the most boring. It was like, it was like, I'm trying to watch my fantasy players

because I had Jalen Hurts and I needed to like 12 points. And luckily he got me the point that actually won my game. But it was a terrible game to watch. Well, unless you're defensive-minded. I mean, unless you, all you like to watch is defense-dominate

because both those defenses, were incredible and the offenses were not going out there and being productive in any sense of the word. Now they got a few plays here and there, but that's all it took in this game because it was low scoring, defensive dominated, and I mean, neither one of these offense came out with any firepower whatsoever.

Yeah, the Packers got to reconvince me. Yeah. Because I think I was big on the Packers, but I think maybe I was just listening to people that I feel like are smarter than me. Right. And now after watching them, I'm not quite there. I think the...

Craft Me and Hurts sucks as well, well. I think the misperception too. Craft was hurt and so was there was another their Matthews. Matthew Golden. Matthew Golden was also hurt. So I get that. But I think the perception was after watching them dominate the Lions first game of the year, getting Parsons, all the firepower that they have, that this was a team that was Super Bowl bound. And then as the season has continued to go along, you start to realize, well, they've got some issues, particularly on the offensive side of the ball. And Jordan Love, I think he's a really good quarterback,

but I don't think he's at the upper echelon of the quarterback position right now. The Ravens at 8. They're getting a lot of credit for what they're probably going to do. Right. More so than what they have done. Again, they have a top three quarterback, and he has missed most of the season.

For sure. The bills at 7. Hey, not a good look. I think I'm a little concerned about the bills. They laid an egg. They laid an egg. Now, I know they're what, the top rushing team in the NFL, James Cook, but my concern with that team is the wide receiver

and the weapons that they have on the outside because at some point they're going to load the box and those guys are going to go have to win one-on-one opportunities. And when you watch that Dolphins game, there was nobody open. And Josh Allen can't do it all by himself. He's had to do it by himself and won before. So we expect it.

He can. Yeah, and you expect it. But it really, a lot of red flags popped up in that game. Colts at six. I was glad to see them one again. Yep. I'm in. I want small market teams to matter.

Yes. And I like... This isn't like baseball, though. No, because... We got a salary cap that everyone's got to spend. I hear you. And you know what? Let's pour one out.

Let's pour one out. Yeah. You know, their owner died. Yeah. Okay, we'll go small market team. Small market team with a dead owner. I'm all for it. And then also, like, I'm rooting for Daniel Jones.

Yeah. I feel like he's been through the ring. rooting for Daniel Jones. Yeah, I'm rooting for Daniel Jones. The Seahawks at five. The Eagles at four. Eagles at four? At four?

Yeah. Yeah. The Lions at three. The Rams at two and the number one team with the best odds, meaning you're going to make the least amount of money, the favorite. Chiefs. And they're not even in. Small market team.

They're not even in the playoffs right now. If the season into right now, they would not make the playoffs. Yeah, it's amazing. But they're still, I mean. They have a tough schedule, though, too. They do have a really tough schedule. Will you pull up their schedule, Kevin? So right now, he's a,

Here's the AFC playoff picture. If it were to end today, Colts at one, they get the buy. Well, the Chief's also been holding plays back, remember? That's true. Yeah. According to Nick Wright. According to Nick Wright. The Broncos at two.

I think that's a fraudulent two. The Broncos are at two? Yeah, because they're eight and two. I know they're eight and two, but have you watched their games? That's what I say. It's a fraudulent two. At some point in the fourth quarter. What your record says you are.

You are. I mean, to get into playoffs, I feel like, but to win those games consistent. in the playoffs against the best teams. That's tough sledding for me to believe that they're two. Give me your Kansas City Chiefs over there. We got the Broncos. Next.

At the Broncos this week. Then the Colts. Yep. At Dallas. Three. Versus Houston. They're peeling off four in a row right now. Go ahead.

Okay. Then the Chargers. They owe them one. They're peeling off five in a row. And this is the for sure win at Tennessee. Six in a row. Then the Broncos again. Seven in a row.

Let's end the season at Vegas. Okay, the chiefs may not lose. So maybe they're through the hardest part of their schedule. Maybe they're through. They may not lose again this year. Okay. Yeah. And look, the Chargers game, that's a tough one.

They've already lost the Chargers once. Yes, they did. They owe them one. The Patriots will be the three. The Steelers would be the four. Chargers five, Buffalo, six, and the Jaguars will be seven. The Jaguars did beat the Chiefs when they played that one time earlier this year. Yes, they did.

But they've had some injuries, especially on that offensive line. They lost both of their tackles, which is going to make, and Herbert gets hit a lot. it's crazy to me the chiefs are the betting favorite, and right now they wouldn't even make the playoffs. I've never seen anything like that before. I think they just went through the schedule just like we did and said, yep, yep, yep, got it.

What else you got? You have another one over there? Gronk signs a one-day contract, I guess it would be, to retire with the Patriots. And when you look at the tight-in position, all-time greats, I think he is the best of all time. I think he's definitely the hardest player

to guard, the hardest player to line up against. I don't think he's statistically the best. He's not, I mean, you've got guys like Gates and Tony Gonzalez, Jason Witton, guys like that that have been around. Travis Kelsey's going to be up there in terms of statistics. But when you look at the definition of what a tied-in is, between blocking, running routes, big body, nobody can cover you because you're just a freak of nature. Unguarable. He was unguarable.

And you could put him outside of DB. It's a mismatch. You bring him inside, put him on a line. linebacker or safety, same, same thing. But then the other part is they would run behind him. Like he was a dominant blocker. I don't think you've seen the likes of somebody that can do it both in the past game and on the line of scrimmage in the run game in terms of blocking like Ronk did.

I just think he's just up there as the best tight end to ever play. I think he's the best to ever play as well. But I don't think he'll be the greatest to most people. Because statistically he doesn't have that, although he did win Super Bowls. multiples. And it's just hard talking to you too because you played for the Patriots and you're a dire Patriots fan. There's a little bit of bias. Yeah, but I didn't play with Grunk. But you're a Patriot.

Yeah. I guess I could consider myself a Patriot. Well, I consider you a Patriot. I was a Patriot. Well, I know. That's the only only season you ever saw me play. Because you couldn't care about my career anywhere else. I think I probably watched you playing Kansas City a little bit. Yeah, maybe. Yeah. A little bit. What if it turns out I was a super fan? And this was my whole plan for years just to get you to come and do a show.

Actually, I got a Patriot tattoo of my shoulder. You do a Patriot tattoo? No, not all. Let me do this. Brian Kelly is now suing LSU over an attempt to short circuit his buyout. This has become the greatest soap opera. It's so good.

Because LSU fires him. And we're like, dang, that's crazy. Now pay them out as $50 million. And so we hear their negotiation. And I'm going, why would he negotiate? That's what I want to know. To give them some of his buyout back. and maybe he wants a lot of it up front

and it wasn't in there. Maybe it's mitigate. I don't know the details of his contract. But that being said, they kept coming back going, no, he wants his full buyout. And so now the last thing that I saw was LSU has now said,

we haven't fired him yet. Exactly. They're like, we haven't fired him yet and we're going to fire him for cause. And so... The cause of losing? Like, that's just part of the job.

Like, it's bizarre. You feel like they might have fired him a little too early. Yeah. They didn't have all their ducks in a row. They emotionally said he's fired. Yes. And now they're going, he won't take less money.

We had planned for him to negotiate and take less than the $56 million. Because I also heard it was like a 30-day payout. It wasn't like overtime, which is a hefty sum. 90% was to be paid out. Yeah. And so LSU is on the hook for $54 million. And so now if I'm Brian Kelly, which by the way, I think Brian Kelly is the most unlikable guy in college football.

That being said, I'm now. rooting for him. Yeah. He's going to win this. Like, what do you mean he didn't fire me? You had a press conference? The governor came on. We fired the AD. So is the AD still are you on the hook for that money or he's not fired either? Are you going to bring him back to coach

the team? What are you talking about? According to the lawsuit obtained by ESPN, Kelly claims LSU called him earlier on Monday and said he'd never been formally terminated and that the school was instead looking into firing him for cause. But cause would mean he did something not lose games. Anything.

inappropriate that they deem that inappropriate, yes, they'd have a leg to stand up, but right now, pay the man. We haven't heard anything, or nothing's come out about cause. I can't believe you made me root for Ryan Kelly. And I kind of hate you for it LSU, because I think he's the worst. But pay the man, or I'm rooting

for him. I heard he's in contract negotiations with Arkansas. You did not. And I tweeted and I'm very careful about not creating a barrier between me and anybody, specifically that hasn't worked for Arkansas. And I am always like, I never say I don't want this coach or I want this coach and never do that.

Because who knows who's going to have the job. And I want to have a decent relationship. And so I did right. I'm there for whoever except Brian Kelly. Really? That's how much I dislike Brian Kelly. Yes. But now I'm rude. Is this the first time you've ever done that? Speaks a lot.

Probably I was pretty vocal that I don't think Sam Pittman's the guy. And I got some backlash from that early on. But it wasn't because I disliked Sam Pittman at all. Right. I like Sam. You just didn't think he was the right fit. I did not. And I'm a fan before I'm anything else.

Before I'm a booster, before I'm the guy that's got shows. I'm a fan, first and foremost. And I tweet like a fan. Yeah. How would you do in the AD role there? I would do awesome. We'd have winners. Because I would raise money.

Yes, that's what it is. It's resources. Then you've got a lot of them at Arkansas. I would create relationships and have... I think I'd do pretty good. Yeah, I think you'd be a relationship builder for sure. I think I'd be a money getter. Yeah.

just give me your money. I think I would it's for the pigs. I also know as somebody with an ego how to actually like massage people's egos. Yeah, you do. Find out what makes them feel good and make them feel good

so they give you money that makes you feel good. This all makes sense. I'm feeling good. Listen to you feeling good right now. Like honestly, I'm feeling good about this. Thank you. Where do I donate? Yeah, seriously.

Go fund me. Bobby Bones in Arkansas. The 2026 NFL draft is here and the NFL Daily Podcast. has it covered from all angles. Join me, Greg Rosenthal and Jordan Roderig after night one on Thursday. Nick Shook joins me night two Friday and then Sunday to recap everything that went down over the three days in Pittsburgh. We'll tell you who won the draft and which players were my favorite picks. Listen to NFL Daily with Greg Rosenthal on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast,

or wherever you get your podcast. I'm Daniel Jeremiah. And I'm Greg Rosenthal. And the This is 40s and free agents. The games may be over, but the NFL never stopped. This is my favorite part of the calendar. Yeah, mine too, Greg. Free agency, the Combine, the NFL draft Pro Days, trades. This is where teams reshape their future. This is where Daniel Jeremiah makes his money.

On 40s and free agents, we break down every move that actually matters. From my draft evaluations, mock drafts, and team fits. To my top 101 free agents and how real rosters are built, cap space, contracts and all the tough decisions included. You got quarterbacks on the move. We got teams rebuilding. It's hope season. Yeah, absolutely.

It's hope season. We'll tell you what's real, what's noise, and what it means for your favorite team. Smart analysis, real conversations every week. I don't know about the smart, but definitely analysis. Listen to 40s and free agents on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. It's time for the weekend preview presented by Draft Kings.

From first touchdown score to, anytime touchdown props or the thrill of live in game betting. Every snap is loaded with opportunity. Here's what we're going to do. We're going to go through the three biggest games NFL for Week 11. Bucks at Bills. Hey, this is a good one because both those teams need to win. This is really good.

They're in Buffalo. In Buffalo. And that probably affects Tampa more so than a lot of these other teams because Tampa's pretty warm. It's very warm. And it's just like when a cold weather team goes down to Tampa, there's an impact of that, especially going into the heat from cold weather. and then there's an impact of Tampa going up to the cold weather.

This one's tough for me because I really do like the Buccaneers in their defense and also obviously the way Baker Mayfield's playing. He battled last week against the Patriots. I'm going to go with the Buccaneers on the road against the bills. I think the bills need it a little bit more because we expect them to be not just winning the AFC East. We expect them to beat that number one team, number two team, battling for that spot. And I think they have more on the line.

If they lose again, I think it hurts them worse than if the bucks lose two in a row. Just divisionally speaking too. Does that put them three back against the Patriots and the division? Patriots win, yeah. Yeah, wow. So I'm going with the bills. I just think it means and it matters more to them. Okay.

And then maybe like there's like a ball dude with like a fake mustache over there coaching, like his analyst. It's Brian Dayball. He's back over. He's got a fake mustache on. He's from Buffalo. Well, I mean, I know him from being the offensive coordinator with Josh Allen. Yeah, but he's actually grew up in Buffalo.

Yeah. So I think he's probably still got a home there. Seahawks at Rams. Ooh, this is so good. I feel like the Seahawks, and I think part of it is where they're located. I feel like they're not getting the respect that they deserve because they've been killing folks. Right. I think when you're in Seattle or you're in Portland, it's just hard to get the respect because you're just so far behind.

and you're not L.A. Like L.A., San Francisco, bigger markets, but especially L.A. Like, things are based in L.A., so they get the love naturally because a lot of these analysts are there. Yes. I feel like Seattle doesn't get the love because nobody's there. I would agree with you because they're playing as good as football as anybody in the league. I would even argue that they could potentially be the best team in football right now. Just the way that the offense is operating, Sam Donald's been amazing.

Defense has been outstanding. So, I mean, these two teams, this is, one's a hard pick for me because they both have a great identity on offense. They know who they are. They've got superstar players on the outside. The quarterbacks are playing at a really high level and the defenses are young and getting after people. I'm still going to have to go with the Rams at home. Matt Stafford just his big game experience and everything. Not to say that Sam Donald doesn't have that, but Stafford's a proven entity. And at the end of the day, I think he's playing at a really, really high level MVP type. Stafford's awesome. I was surprised to see that he just now has

500 all time. Really? If you pull up his record, because I think... Well, you played for Detroit for... Yes, that's why. 15 years. That's why.

Yeah. And they were always like that 8 and 8 like right around there and had some down years, had a few up years, but... He was like something, something in one. What is it?

115 and 1. Wow. Hall of Famer, for sure. For sure. Super Bowl champion. Really one of the best. One of the best 50 quarterbacks, I think of all time.

Just because I haven't thought about it. Maybe he's the best 25. But one of the best 50 of, all time. What he had to endure for all those years, as talented as he is, then lifted up that organization to be better than what they could. Could you imagine if he didn't go there?

Oh, yeah. Chiefs at Broncos. I'm going Chiefs. Yeah. I don't think Chiefs lose like three years. That's my prediction. We don't see a loss to like 20-30. Yeah, I do think that Broncos defense is really good.

So I will say that they're going to put up a fight. But for them to continue to win games consistently in the fourth quarter in the manner in which they have, I think it's hard pressed to think that they can maintain that. I think they're the Denver fraudcos. I just made that up. Boom, boom.

You nailed that. But again, you are what your record says you are. They're 8 and 2. It's pretty impressive. I agree. That was your week in preview. Presented by Draft King's new customers bet just five bucks. And if your bet wins,

you'll get $300 in bonus bets instantly. Your team hitting pay dirt pays out to you. Download the Draft King Sportsbook app. the code to say. That's T-O-S-A-Y for new customers. Turn five bucks into $300 in bonus bets if your bet wins. In partnership with Draft Kings, the crown is yours. Gambling problem, call 1-800 gambler. In New York, call 8778-8-8-Hop-N-Y or text Hope & Why at 467-369. In Connecticut, help is available for problem gambling called 888-78-9-777-7. Or visit ccpg. Please play responsibly. On behalf of Boothill Casinoin Resort in Kansas,

21 and over. Age and eligibility varies by jurisdiction. Void in Ontario. Bet must win to receive reward. Bonus bets expire 168 hours after issuance. For additional terms and responsible gaming resources, see dkNG.co slash audio. All right, we're going to get over and talk with former NFL tight-in Vernon Davis. Vernon was drafted sixth overall in 2006 by the 49ers.

He went on to play 14 years in the NFL. He ran a sub 4-440. He has a new podcast we're going to talk about called the Next Roll. and you can follow him on Instagram at Vernon Davis 85. Here he is, Vernon Davis. So Vernon, before we start talking about Ball, what is your next role?

What are you finding for filming in right now? My next role is filming television, just doing things that bring me joy. And I think that's the biggest thing that gives me motivation when I wake up every morning. Byrne, how you doing, buddy? It's good to see you again.

About the new podcast, what's something that you've already learned doing this only a month that maybe you didn't know before starting this endeavor? Well, I didn't know that it took a great deal of effort on my end. I thought, you know, I would have people, you know, doing all the work for me. Pretty much. But it goes hand in hand with everything else in life.

If you want something, if you're passionate about it, then you put your own time and energy into it. Are you enjoying it? Are you finding you're taking to it pretty good? Yeah, yeah, I enjoy it. I enjoy it. It's a building process. Just like all the things that I did when I was playing football, you started.

I related to like starting from the beginning. When I first got to San Francisco, we were losing. Couldn't find a win at all. And then all of a sudden, boom. So on the show and the premise of the show, you've got ex-athletes, you got comedians, you got people from all different walks of life. Was that something that you really wanted to have? inside this new podcast that you started?

Yeah, I wanted to infuse my life with this podcast, like from playing football, athletes, basketball was my first love. Also, there's a lot of things that I'm doing now in the basketball space. I invested in a team in Australia called the National Basketball League NBA team, which is the Brisbane Bullets. So I wanted to cultivate that, even with the production side of, you know, friends and people that I've met in the acting world and television world.

So it's, it just all comes together. It's just my life infused in one off. Let's talk about basketball in high school. How good a ball player were you in high school? Oh, man. I was okay. I was okay. The one of the guys that I played against in high school in my area was Kevin Durant.

I remember playing against him. It was, that was tough because they also had Patrick Ewing. junior, they had a really good team. So it was a challenge for us, but I think I did it really well. What'd you average? Probably 8 to 10 points a game. We had a guy in our team named Trey Kelly who was going all the

points every night, so he was a little selfish. He wouldn't pass the ball much, so we had to let him do his thing. So you played basketball, you played football. Did you also do track in high school? And then what ultimately led you to Maryland? I did. I did track and field. I did shot put. I did high jump.

and I felt like those things really helped mold me as a football player. And the thing that led me to Maryland was just staying close to home, staying close to my grandparents, my family, and allowing them the opportunity to be able to see me play on Saturdays. So you sound like a guy then that would want kids to play a bunch of sports, not just specialize in a single sport? Yeah, but unfortunately it doesn't work that way. I try to get my son to run track and play basketball, but he refused.

came home one day after track practice and I was like you're supposed to be a track practice he was like yeah dad but I just didn't go there said okay I get it I get it you don't want to do it and he's and I'm excited for him because he's he's going to Maryland to play football as a linebacker in 2026 so I'm excited for Gianni yeah you're one of those rare tight ends obviously when you're coming out your explosive athleticism and all that was recognized at the combine when you ran a what a 4-3-8 which is heard of at the tight-end position, but you're drafted six overall at the age of 22.

Talk about that process and what that was like for you and the expectation that went along getting drafted to the 49ers six-pick overall as a tight-in. Yeah, that process for me was very important. I knew how I knew what the combine could do for a young guy coming into the NFL, and I don't think a lot of guys took that series. It was a way for me to increase my stock in the draft. And I did. I felt like all the hard work and dedication I put in from high school to college

and even training for the combine really stood out. So my approach going to the combine, I was like, hey, I'm going to be the best in everything that I competed. I remember that night before going to bed. I just kept listening to it was a song by Eminem. You only get one shot, do not miss your chance, the opportunities come once in a lifetime. That song I will listen to all the time because it was, you know, music motivates you.

It gives you the inspiration that you need. And I got up that morning and it was game time for me. It was game time. I knew this was the moment that was going to change my life forever. And that was my approach. When you were in Maryland, you played H-Back, you played tight-in, you moved around a bit. But you could have also been a wide receiver. I mean, you ran so fast.

You were just large, you could have been a large wide receiver, right? instead of a really fast tied in. Why did you decide to play in rather than split out? When I arrived at Maryland, I did start a wide receiver. And then Coach Franklin, you know, unfortunately, my heart goes out to him because he was a hell of a coach there at Penn State. But Coach Franklin was, he was a wide receiver coach there when I arrived. Coach Friedman told me he was watching me one day.

He said, you know what? We're going to move you to H-Ban. And then I said, I said, why, coach? She said because I feel like you want to get bigger. I said, okay. And then from there, age back, lead blocking on linebackers for the running back at times and flexed out, catching balls in the flats and things of that nature. And then my junior year, I was a true tight end.

And he was right. I got up to about 253 pounds. When you first got to the 49ers, obviously you were an organization that was still building to get to eventually where you got to. But you obviously went through adversity. and we remember the 2008. At least I do, I'm sure you do, with Mike Singletary and the altercation that you guys had.

But that was probably a turning point for you and a growing moment. You obviously eventually become the captain. But talk about that moment and what that did for you in your career and how that helped change you as a player in your mindset. When you're coming into the National Football League, you look up to certain individuals.

You try to find that identity. And sometimes the person that you're looking up isn't the right person. So you have to really make sure you put yourself around the right role model. And I was searching for that. I had a me-me mentality

and it shouldn't have been that way. I only had it. It was only that way because I had a chip on my shirt. I wanted to be the best than what I was doing, but I didn't know how to go about it. Co-Singer's day was there.

He was always watching me. He was always behind. I remember the first day I arrived and he came up to me, he said, you have great qualities. And I feel like you can be the best. And he told me that from day one. And I guess he knew exactly what to do to get my attention. The day he called me out, sent me to the locker room. I remember going home,

watching it on TV. I got a text from him and said, come see me in the morning. And when I arrived in his office that morning, we had a heart to heart. He started to cry. I was crying. And from there, I started to see the big picture, the big picture of what they brought me in here to be. And the big picture of just my... my journey and what I wanted for myself. In order to do that, I have to be self-less instead of selfish and do, just be a great, a great locker room guy all the time we hear the term great locker room guy. That's very important.

That dictates what other guys playing three years or 15 years. So if you're a great lockering guy, that transfers to the field. And that's what I became. I'd love to hear about both quarterbacks in San Francisco, both Alex Smith and Colin Kaepernick. and what it was like playing with both of those guys, like both of their strengths. Well, they were totally different. Alex was, well, of course,

Alex was my favorite guy because when I came in, he was there. That was the guy that brought me, that was the guy they brought me in for, you know, just to cultivate a relationship from a receiver, quarterback standpoint. And he was, I mean, he was amazing, man. He was, we saw everything he went through with the injury and Washington, D.C. with his leg.

That's who Alice Smith is. He's resilient. He's relentless. and he had that from the beginning of time. Even from the time when he suffered from the concussion and was benched to Colin Kaepernick, for Colin Kaepernick to step in when Harbaugh was there. His ability, I mean, he has great arm strength.

He had great football awareness, great IQ for the game. He was a football player. Unfortunately, he didn't have that in the beginning because we had to go from, we went from offensive coordinator to office coordinator. It was just, it was just, it was chaotic. and he didn't have a chance to grow and evolve as a quarterback. But he showed who he was when he went to Kansas City.

Now, Colin Kaepernick on nothing, he's just a totally different style of playing quarterback. The way he threw the ball, the way his ability to run. He was just totally different. But unfortunately for Colin Kaepernick, that didn't last wrong for him. They were both great humans, you know, fan favorites. in the locker room. But Alex Smith was, when I look at quarterbacks,

I would say Alex Smith is the guy that I really, really enjoy playing with. Talk about Coach Harbaugh coming in in 2011. Obviously, there had to be a cultural shift at that point because from 2011 and 2014, you guys go to three straight NFC championship games, go make a Super Bowl appearance as well. But talk about the impact he had on that organization at that time. Coach Harbaugh coming in, there was a culture shift. the guys started, I mean, we had some of the same guys,

Aubrucks, Alden Smith, Justin Smith, Frank Gore, all the guys, we had to call that core group of guys. What happened was is just, well, of course, the game plan, both offensively, defensively, new system all around. And what he expected out of us was totally different. Like, he held us, you're talking about accountability? He's the guy. to enforce that.

He's going to enforce accountability. He's going to make sure that you guys, the guys understand that, hey, I want you, but I don't need you. You can easily be replaced. And once guys understood that, I mean, it was like a totally different dynamic.

He just has his way about him that, you know, I mean, he's the general, man. He knows how to get guys to play the game of football and play at a high level. So then you weren't surprised to see him. win a national championship at Michigan and then turn the chargers around? No, I wasn't surprised to see him

win a national championship. I wasn't surprised at all because I know that Harbaugh has, he has it. A lot of guys, you either have it in you or you don't. He's made for football. You know, it might take him some times.

He'll get you there. You may not win it, but he's going to come back and do something miraculous at some point in time. He's one of those type of guys that you don't want to let him go because you know what his pedigree is.

From his brother to his father, to who he is. He just hasn't. Talk to us about that divisional game against the Saints. It's referred to as catch number three in the 49ers folklore of their organization.

But what do you remember from that game in that moment when you caught that touchdown pass because it was probably one of the best divisional games of all time in NFL history? Oh, yeah, that game. That was our first time going to the playoffs,

believe it or not. First time there. Super exciting. We wanted it. You know how it is. When you play this game, you can never, you play and you play and you're looking for that win. That could get super frustrating. I felt bad for guys like Frank Gore who been there.

Frank arrived the year before me in 2005. He was extremely upset over the years and just watching him. So when we finally made it to the playoffs, it was just we had something in us. It was something about that team that we were desperate for that win. I knew how important it was for the team, the organization, the fans, and just, the city of San Francisco. So that was the first time I felt like I was unstoppable. Like I was in the zone.

Like, it was nothing that could stop me from producing for my team. Right? I remember going to Harbaugh, just throw me the ball. You could throw me the ball. I got it. Trust me. And he just, they just kept coming to me. Alex, you know, he called the play.

It was a play that went to start called the, it was the Vernon Post. We ran that play one time. I didn't think we were going to call it. But Greg Roman called that play. We had a couple seconds left from the clock. It was the play that brought that game home. I remember it was like it was yesterday. It's the 20th anniversary of Dancing with the Stars.

You did the show. What are your memories from that show? Me wanting to go home. Me wanting to quit. Why is that? That was the hardest thing I've had to do in my life. I'm not going to I guess because it was super foreign to me. I didn't have, I didn't know how to dance.

I'm not a dancing guy. I don't have a dancing background. So, walking into a studio, having to develop a dance routine in two days is extremely tough, extremely difficult. It was a challenge for me. I'm not going to lie, but I didn't. I kept going, I kept fighting, and eventually it became fun. It became fun.

And once I learned the different things you need to have when it comes to dancing, especially ballroom dancing. I know you have your Super Bowl trophy, but I did win that show. He won the show. Tell me this is not the ultimate flex. I don't bring it out often. Thank you. Thank you.

This is the one athletic thing that I probably have a trophy that you don't in the history of the world. With a banged-up shoulder too, right? Oh, yeah, I tore my shoulder. I had to go to like the Titans. I didn't play Pro Ball, obviously, but I had to go to the Titans facility in Nashville because I tore my shoulder.

I didn't know how to dance. I'd never dance in my life. And so I tore my shoulder on the first dance because I fell at the end of the dance because I was celebrating because I never actually finished the dance in practice. That's exactly. He's laughing. Wow.

Yeah. And I didn't go to the 20th anniversary because I freaking tore my ankle. So I'm in a cast right now. And before you came on, I was like, I think Vernon did the show. And yeah, it was super hard. So, yeah, anyway, I just wanted to show off my trophy. That's all.

Yeah, he got that trophy. And then in our profession, you got the ultimate trophy. You're traded to Denver in 2015 with Peyton Manning. Talk about that experience, what that was like. And actually ultimately getting to achieve what all of us ultimately wanted to achieve in this sport. Yeah, so when that happened, so I think we just finished playing the St. Louis Rams at the time. And I remember being home. We're getting to the house that night, waking up that morning with the text from Trent Balk, our general manager, saying, hey, Brian, come see me.

So I'm already like, ah, he never, he never sends me. He never sent me a text like that. If it was, it would be a phone call rather than that, text. So I knew something's kind of fishing. I go in, I see him, and he said, sit down, son. I sit down and I was like, what's this about you? You guys probably going to trade me, huh? He was like, yeah.

So he started pulling up different teams, and he's like, yeah. like Denver, highly interested in bringing you in. So I was just like, okay, I'm processing everything. And, you know, of course, I'm, I'm shedding tears because I'm with this organization. I've been with this organization since 2006. Now it's 2015. I'm like, all right, so I, you know, that happened, get on the plane and go to Denver. And I get a text from Peyton said, come see me when you get here.

I'll be in the gym. The rest is just history. ended up winning a Super Bowl Super Bowl 50 in Denver, Von Miller, DeMarcus, where we just had an amazing team. That team reminded me of the team that we had when I went

to Super Bowl 47 with the San Francisco 49ers. It was just the same kind of energy, the same feel. Everybody was so positive. The conference was like just stupor out there and you could just feel it. You could feel the energy. It was just a great thing we had going on. Unfortunately, the thing for me

was that I played with two different quarterbacks. I played with Brock Oswald and I played with Peyton Manning. So learning both guys on the fly within a month or two was just like super difficult for me. I'm not going to lie, it was a challenge because it was just a totally different, a totally different process and playbook with Peyton Manning. And it was awesome to experience that even though, you know,

I didn't feel as comfortable as I wanted to, but I wish I had the opportunity to start with those guys in the beginning from training camp all the way through. It would have been a special, it would have been even more special, I think.

But look, I don't take anything for granted. I enjoy the moment, the journey, the process, and that's a moment that I'll remember for the rest of my life. Final question. How did you know when it was time to hang them up? I had my last concussion. My grandfather just died.

And the way I was feeling, I was like mentally, not in it. And this game is, to me, is probably 90, 90% mental, 10% is just the physicality of the game, in my opinion, because the things that you have to do and create it in your mind when you're out in that field is, is, and if you don't have that, then you can't play this game. And to me, I wanted to be able to be free mentally when playing this game of football, because I, I had to have that. You know, all my career, I used my mind to go out there and produce at the highest level. So I knew it was time when that feeling came over me. I knew it was time to let the game go.

All right. The podcast is called The Next Roll. You can listen wherever you get your podcast. You can watch on YouTube. Vernon Davis. Vernon, we really appreciate the time, man. Good luck with the podcast. Good luck with the acting. Good luck just finding your next role. You have the fulfillment in your life now. So we appreciate that. I appreciate it, guys. Thanks for having me. All the best, Brian. All the best, Brian. All right. Good to see you. You too. Thank you. The 26 NFL draft is here and the NFL Daily podcast has it covered from all angles.

Join me, Greg Rosenthal and Jordan Roderig after night one on Thursday. Nick Shook joins me night two Friday and then Sunday to recap everything that went down over the three days in Pittsburgh. We'll tell you who won the draft and which players were my favorite picks. Listen to NFL Daily with Greg Rosenthal on the I-Hart. Art Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I'm Daniel Jeremiah. And I'm Greg Rosenthal. And this is 40s and free agents.

The games may be over, but the NFL never stopped. This is my favorite part of the calendar. Yeah, mine too, Greg. Free agency, the combine. The NFL draft Pro Days trades. This is where teams reshape their future. This is where Daniel Jeremiah makes his money. On 40s and free agents, we break down every move that actually matters.

From my draft. evaluations, mock drafts, and team fits to my top 101 free agents and how real rosters are built, cap space, contracts, and all the tough decisions included. You got quarterbacks on the move? We got teams rebuilding. It's hope season. Yeah, absolutely. It's hope season.

We'll tell you what's real, what's noise, and what it means for your favorite team. Smart analysis, real conversations every week. I don't know about the smart, but definitely analysis. Listen to 40s and free agents on the IHeart radio app. Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Okay, before we go, who's the coach in the NFL that you look at now and you think, I didn't get the chance to play four with them, but I would love to have played four with them.

Probably Kevin O'Connell. But you played with him. I know. That doesn't care. He was your backup quarterback. Yeah, that's what would make it so great. Got a great relationship. No, I mean, he's a QB whisper.

I think that, have you watched the videos of him after the game? Yes. In the locker room. Yeah. I never would have guessed that when I first started. started playing with him. The way that he's matured and grown up in the profession, but also his messaging and everything else,

I think he's just a high character individual, and it would be a fun experience to play for him. Plus, they do win a lot of games. I know they're going through a little bit of a phase right here where they're not winning a lot of games, but that would be a guy I would like to play for. I'd like to see what he says with no cameras, no microphones to his closest of confidants about JJ McCarthy.

I'll call him. Because I think it's really bad. I don't think it's what they expected. And I think that they're now looking in the mirror going, Sam Donald's out there in Seattle. And Daniel Jones. And Daniel Jones. They had them both.

Now, they weren't going to be able to offer them long-term contracts. Or they weren't going to? No, but what Sam get a three-year deal? Yeah. Three-year deal. And you still had JJ McCarthy on a rookie deal. So potentially you could still make that work. Very high-inside of you, yes.

Yeah. I mean, I'm just looking at it. I wouldn't have let Sam Donald walk outside that building. after the season that he had. And I know that people like, well, in the biggest moments against the Rams late in the year and this, look, if you look at Jared Goffin, what he did in that playoff game last year against the commanders, he threw four interceptions. So, I mean, I know that it was because Sam was the first year starter for the Minnesota Vikings

was with Kevin O'Connell. And they say, well, it's Kevin O'Connell. No, it's the player out there making plays, doing it consistently. And I would have never broke that relationship up. my agent has called me three times during this podcast. Is that good or bad? It's one of the two. What are we doing, guys?

What's next? Get rid of castle. We're going up. You're hosting American Idol. It's funny that you went bad in your head. I'm saying it's good for you. But you went bad for you. You're like, I'm moving to L.A.

Cass, sorry. Definitely not doing that. Something's happening. Something's happening. No, I would know. Come on. I would never. Hey, we're on air right now, but tell me what's going on. He, so he first called at like 20 minutes into the podcast.

And I just made a quick video and sent it to show him. We were in the middle of recording. He called again at 50 minutes into it. And then he just called again and said, call me after. Ooh, there's some juicy on the other end of this call. I feel like it ain't good. Do you get excited? Do you like, you kind of know. Everything about my life is I associate with, hey, call me after to be call me after because I have bad news. Yeah, that's probably the route that I usually go. If you've called me three times, something happened. Yeah.

Yeah. So I feel like it's probably not the best call coming. But like how bad could it be? Did you do anything when you're all hooped up on Mountain Dew for your foot surgery that we just need to know about or you don't really remember? I don't think so. I don't think so. I don't think so. You're like, like Wolf of Wall Street when he takes the Quailers and driving down the street and Wiga.

No, I totally got home fine, honey. Here's your ice cream. So I guess I'll call him. That's it. Thank you very much. Thanks again to Vernon Davis for coming on. That's Matt Castle. That's Kickoff Kevin.

That's Brandon Ray. I'm Bobby Bones and I. Got to call my agent, but we've had lots to say. Goodbye, everybody. Lots to say with Bobby Bones and Matt Castle is a production of the NFL and IHeart Podcasts. For more podcasts from IHartRadio,

visit the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The 26 NFL draft is here, and the NFL Daily podcast, has it covered from all angles. Join me, Greg Rosenthal, and Jordan Rodriguez after night one on Thursday. Day, Nick Shook, joins me night two Friday and then Sunday to recap everything that went down over the three days in Pittsburgh.

We'll tell you who won the draft and which players were my favorite picks. Listen to NFL Daily with Greg Rosenthal on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I'm Daniel Jeremiah. And I am Greg Rosenthal. I know that, Greg. We're teaming up on 40s and free agents, the podcast that owns the NFL off season. This is where teams are built. Free agency, combine, pro days, trades.

Every move matters. From my draft boards and mock drafts to my vaunted top 101 free agents and how rosters come together. Quarterback movement. Surprise signings. We'll tell you what it means and who really wins. Open your free IHeart radio app. Search 40s and free agents and listen now.

This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.