The Bobby Bones Show - Mike Levine from the band Triumph: A Classic Rock Canadian band and their love of music.

Episode Date: February 24, 2023

Welcome bassist and keyboard player Mike Levine from The Canadian power trio Triumph on Takin A Walk-Music History on foot.it was so much fun catching up with Mike and hearing the stories of the band and their beginning, their breakthrough moments and the joy of music.You will learn some things you never knew about the band Triumph. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoicesSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. On a recent episode of the podcast, Money and Wealth with John Hope Bryant, I sit down with Tiffany the budgetista Aliche to talk about what it really takes to take control of your money. What would that look like in our families if everyone was able to pass on wealth to the people when they're no longer here? We break down budgeting, financial discipline, and how to build real wealth, starting with the mindset shifts. Too many of us were never, ever,

If you've ever felt you didn't get the memo on money, this conversation is for you to hear more. Listen to Money and Wealth with John Hope Bryant from the Black Effect Network on the I'd Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Earners, what's up? Look, money is something we all deal with, but financial literacy is what helps turn income into real wealth. On each episode of the podcast, Earn Your Leisure, we break down the conversations you need to understand money, investing, and entrepreneurship. From stocks and real estate to credit, business, and generational wealth, our goal is simple. Make financial literacy accessible for everyone. Because when you understand the system, you can start to build within it.

Open your free I-Hard Radio app. Search Earn Your Leisure and listen now. How much you wait, Wanda? Right now, I'm about 130. I'm at 183. We should race. No, I want to leave here with my original hips. On the podcast, the match-up with Liliah, I pair prominent female athletes with unexpected guests. On a recent episode, I sat down with undisputed.

disputed boxing champ, Clarissa Shields, and comedian Wanda Sykes, to talk about Wanda's new movie Undercard, The Art of Trashog and what it really means to be ladylike. Open your free IHeartRadio app. Search the matchup with Alia and listen now. Brought to you by Novartis, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports Network. Readers, Katie's finalists, publicists. We have an incredible new episode this week for you guys. We have our girl Hillary Duff in here and we can't wait for you to hear this episode. They put on Lizzie McGuire 2 a.m. Video on Demand. This guy's 2 a.m. Lizzie McGuire. And I'm like, a wild batch you were with. It was like a first like closet moment for me where I was like,

you're like I don't feel like she's hot like the rest of them. No, no, no. I was like, she's beautiful. But I'm appreciating her in a different way than these boys are. I'm not like, but listen to Los Angeles on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or whatever you get your podcast. This is the Taking a Walk podcast,

music history on foot and on Buzz Night. follow us on your favorite podcast platform. Apple, Spotify, IHeart, tune in, or wherever you get your podcast. And when you click follow, that guarantees that you're never going to miss an episode. Kindly share with a friend. Today we have the bassist and keyboard player from a Canadian band that defined Arena Rock in its four decades. He's a dear friend for many years. Please welcome Mike Levine to Take It a Walk.

Well, Michael, Stephen Levine, it's so awesome to have you on Taking a Walk. I only wish we could be in person, but what joyous part of the globe are you in? I have been in the Grille, Jamaica. And it is a beautiful sunny day, and I'm on the beach. I could just detect the smile on your face when you say that. Yes, and I also smiled, though it's ever, ever in all the years I've been doing interviews, referred to me as Michael Stephen Levine. So you win the award, my friend.

So let's disclose first that I got to know you from being a regular attendee of the Superstars Radio Convention, led by our mutual friend Lee Abrams. I remember being either in the bar line or the chow line, and when I would see you, I knew the convention would be ultra fun if you were in the house. We had a lot of laughs, and we probably dented ourselves a little bit in the process, but it sure was a lot of fun. Yeah, those were very heavy days. I have incredibly fond and also 10 inky memories from those conventions. But just the opportunity to hang with, you know, all the radio guys

and some of the artists that actually did show up was just amazing for me. Yeah, do you remember some of the artists that were there? I remember a few of them. I remember hanging in the A&M suite. I remember hanging with Robert Palmer for an extended period of time. He was probably the most opinionated artist I ever met. I remember Robbie Robertson, a fellow Canadian hanging around there.

Do you remember him? Yeah, I remember Robbie being there. I remember David Lee Roth being there. I remember being in a bathtub with David. There was somebody's tweet. But we had our clothes on. I remember Bob and Doug McKenzie, your fellow Canadians were there one time. Do you remember that?

I don't remember them being there. No, I have no recollection of that. But there's a lot of things I don't remember, especially about then. Oh, my God, me too. All right, we're going to talk later about the Triumph documentary Rocket Roll Machine. We're going to touch on the tribute album as well and limited edition cool things that you've got available. But first, let's start at the beginning. When did you know that you were hooked being a musician?

I don't know. I guess maybe when I saw the Beatles at Maple Leaf Gardens in Toronto. And I probably might have been, I don't know, 13 or 14 years old, I guess at that point, 63 or 4, whatever that was, I just looked at this band that you couldn't hear for all the girls screaming. And then I looked at all the girls screaming, and I said, I want to be a musician. That's how you get a girl. That was it, right?

Pretty much, yeah. Now, who were some of the other influences musically that shaped you around that time? Oh, I was, me and my buddies, we had, little high school bands, part-time bands kind of. We were very R&B-oriented, so it was Sam and Dave and Wilson Pickett, and Sil Johnson, and Aretha Franklin, and Irma Franklin. And, you know, just we used to, because there was no black people in Toronto, the top 40s station was Chum, which was a very famous station. But they listed, like, Midnight Hour by Wilson Pickett as number one, but they never put. played the record.

That's crazy. So we had to listen to Buffalo Radio to hear the songs. So it would be WUFO, the Big Waffle. Later, when FM started started happening, WBLK FM. So we'd hear the songs

and there was one store in downtown Toronto that carried the singles. So we used to head down there on the weekends because we lived in the suburbs and just hang out and look at the jingles that came in that week. And the ones that we had heard on the radio, we bought and we learned and we played in the band. So those were big, huge influences, really, the R&B guys.

And, of course, you know, the Beatles, the Stones. Even Herman's Hermit, for lack of a better band in those days. But to Who and the Yardbirds, just, you know, all those bands were amazing. So you'd listen to them and try and clap their legs and be as good at people. players as they were, which of course was pretty much impossible in those days. But yeah, it influences for everything because there was no FM radio, right? It was strictly top 40. So describe that chance meeting with Rick Emmett and Gilmore in Toronto that led to the band

triumph. That was 1975, right? Yes, you have the year absolutely. correct. So Gill and I were at a part-time band together. And, you know, we played high schools on weekends. It was a cover band. We'd be good

dough. But then it was like, you know, he suckered me into playing with him. He was, I didn't want to do it, but he basically conned me into just playing for a few weeks. Because I was doing other things at that point. So

you know, I started to like the playing part, it was kind of neat. We sat down one day, just him and I and I said, look, I can't do this anymore. Either we try and get something serious going or I'm going to have to, you know, go back to, you know, writing and producing

jingles, which is what I was doing. He said, okay, so we'd brainstorm, you know, a bottle of scotch or whatever over the course of a few weeks and decide, okay, we're going to have a three-piece band. It's going to be Alan Jimi Hendrick, Ella Leibblin, personality, purple, hard rock, heavy metal, whatever you wanted to call.

I don't think anything had terminology back then. But, so you got a guitar player, sorry, a bass player and a drummer, but, you know, you need a guitar player. So we auditioned a bunch of guys just to see if we could A, get along and be playing with them. And nothing seemed to be working. And then with guys that we knew, they were managers and agents, suggested that, you know, You know, we go check out this guy named Rick Emmett playing the band called Act 3. And they're playing this weekend at whatever club it was, like I can't remember now. So we went, okay, and we went and checked them out.

And they were playing, you know, Gentle Giant and Queen, early Queen, you know, really kind of complex Prague rock stuff. And they were pretty good. And Rick was amazing. Gil and I kind of looked at each other. And Gil says, yeah, he's really good. But do you think you can play a whole lot of love? If he can play that, he can play a whole lot of love, right?

It's not going to be a problem. So Rick came over and sat down with us and we chatted and decided that, okay, let's get together and play a little bit, see how the vibes are. And that seemed to work out just fine. And the rest kind of his history. I like how you focused on

Let's see if we could get along first. That was really the priority, right? Absolutely. You know, that's what we did pretty much all the way through our career. Like, okay, you know, so we got a band now. What are we going to do? So we're playing high schools, and that was easy. But then we need to go on the road and see what we could do.

So we went on an agent put this a tour of Northern Ontario. Okay. Now, I don't know if you've ever been up there, but it'd be like places like Thunder Bay, Ontario, and Sue St. Marie, and North Bay and Sunbury, and God knows where else. And it's in the winter. It is really fucking cold. So we get there, and there's no gigs. We're going, okay, we're here. We have nowhere to play. The agent just made it all up. So we went to the university and said, hey, you guys got beer night?

Yeah, okay, we're going to play, okay? Yeah, just give us the door for whatever. Pay us beer. I went to a club that was up there. They said, hey, we'll play for food. And we lived through that experience. We're up there for, I don't know, five or six weeks. And we lived and we laughed, and we had, I couldn't say we had the most fun,

but we made fun of a really horrible situation. So again, it was like, hey, you got to live through the shitholes to play the nice places. And we managed to do that. So then 1979, this release called Just a Game comes out, and it's breakthrough. Hold on. Lay it on the line. songs that are still staples out there for classic rock and rock stations. So were you guys surprised at the success of just a game? Nothing ever surprised me.

To be honest with you, I went, hey, we're either going to, it's kind of like being in a band, it's kind of like going to Vegas if you're a gambler. So, you know, once in a while you hit Blockjack. but as soon as you pick up your chips and walk away from the table, you can't get lucky. So we got really lucky with that record. It was a very good record. I'm very proud of that record. But as you know, a lot of great records just never got promoted right.

You know, lousy record company. You know, manager pissed off president of record company. You know, it was like you weren't the number one priority. You weren't even the number three priority with the promo department. So we managed to lobby. RTA Records was amongst the worst labels in the business. But they had a couple of guys there that were believers. He had a marketing.

It was a guy named Dick Carter. And he believed in the band. He said, we're going to make this happen. And we managed to extract a whole whack of dough out of them. We just bullshit. We made videos. We used TV commercials. Nobody else was doing that kind of thing.

TV didn't exist. But, you know, half a million bucks later, we had songs on the radio, and people were paying attention to this band called Triumph. But it was really difficult for you guys to break into the U.S., wasn't it? Yes and no. You know, another three-piece band from Toronto had kind of led the way, so to speak. We were able to follow how they did it and learn. from the mistakes they made early out of their career because we were maybe three years behind

them. I can't remember their name. Oh, yeah, it was Drush. So I got on a plane and went to, see, I don't know, five or six promoters. I've walked in, you know, our agent, at that point, we had a U.S. agent. I don't need to try it. Troy Blakely, you may remember his name, rest of the soul. He became a very powerful guy in the business. So Troy set up meetings for me with Bill Graham and Brian Murphy and Avalon attractions in L.A., and Jules Belkin in Cleveland, and Louis Messina. And I went around to all these guys and said, look, you never heard of us, but we're going to want to come in your market and headline. And Bill Graham threw me out of his office. Really?

I said, but Bill, there's a connoissell. Okay? Here's the deal. Like, we're going to pay for all the advertising. Okay, we got a $25,000 budget for TV and radio. And if the show loses, buddy, we'll raise you a check for half the loss. And Bill said, you're absolutely out of your fucking mind. So I'm walking back to my rent-to-carre in the parking lot at PGP,

and Danny Sherr and Greg Perloff, who both became, you know, very famous promoters. I think Greg still runs that EG, I think. They came running after me, but don't pay attention to Bill. It's not his idea. He doesn't like it. But, you know, we're all in. We're going to do this. I said, great, fantastic.

So I felt really good about that. So, you know, my balls got bigger. My dick got harder. And the next guy with the Brian Murphy, I said, Brian, this is a laydown. Bill Graham's in on this, okay? So it's like, you've got to come in, too. and every promoter, Jerry Michelson in Chicago,

everybody bought in. And there wasn't one promoter that made money. Everybody lost money, which was okay. Because they came in the dressing room after the show, and they were honest about how much they lost in and tried to steal money from us. And we wrote that Rick Mike and Gil East signed a check perhaps a loss. The only time in history, an act is signed a check to a promoter for a loss. ever. So those guys became our friends.

And they worked radio on our behalf. They did everything they possibly could to make the band successful in their marketplaces. And sure enough, you know, it took a couple of times through, but then we're playing the big building. Wow. What a great story. Oh, my God. So Thunder 7, you worked with Eddie Kramer, the legendary engineer and co-producer, quite a history, obviously, with some bands that we might have heard of that he worked with. What was it like working with Eddie Kramer?

When you look up with the phrase piece of work in the dictionary, there's a picture of Eddie right there. There was a lot of fun to work with, but Eddie was really quirky. We nearly came to Fistakoff many, many times. But it was all for the better, you know, at the end of the day, the record got better because, you know, any insistent on something, and I told him you're dreaming, you know, your brain dead, your ears don't work anymore. He goes, yes, they do you. The problem is you. Don't you know who I am? I said, really, I don't care who you are. This isn't your record. This is a triumph record. It became, you know, a battle of will, so to speak. And, you know, Eddie won a few and I want a few.

And, you know, Rick won a few. And, you know, the record ended up being good. But I learned a lot from Eddie, like, on a technical basis. And, you know, sound-wise, you know, audio-wise, how we like stuff. And just listening to the Zeppelin stories, you know, it was a lot of fun. It was worth of money we paid them, really, just for the stories. So you guys defined, really, this category. you were part of creating this category kind of arena rock, I guess I would call it,

which included a lot of like lasers and explosions and things of that nature. Where did you get the idea for that type of stage persona? Well, going back to how we started our little walk here, it was, that was the idea from the beginning, was to have a big show. Our feeling was, you know, imagine going to a Broadway playing and there's no lighting and there's no audio and there's no light and dark, you know, kind of thing. You know, if there's no lighting and no excitement, you know, just watching three guys on stage standing there and looking like goofballs with no kind of theatrical presentation around. It was really not a very bright business plan. So right from the beginning, we overamp it.

everything. We bought our own lighting system. We took the biggest lighting system, no one to bars, into bars. We took pyro and nobody used firo in bars. We used pyro in bars. We got a reputation as being a, you know, you have to see this band. It's like we were totally unique. And both the music we played, which was, you know, we copped, was deaf and purple and Hedricz and then we'd do a set of our own. And that's how we ended up with fans. But the whole show thing was an essential thing. Anytime we had extra doll, okay, what are we going to add this time? We're going to add more flashpots. Are we going to go for lasers?

Can we afford it? Who cares if we can afford it? Let's do it anyway. We were into the big show from the beginning, but not just for the sake of doing it. It was always, okay, how do we use, it to enhance the music. So, you know, dark makes light look great. The light makes dark work great. Quiet makes loud sound great. Loud makes quiet sound great. So, you know, old adage from Jerry Wexler, who I thought he'd have the pleasure of me anyways, because people don't always hear with the rears, they hear with their eyes, too. And that's definitely true. So, the visual part of our show was there to advance the user, and that's how

we paste the show. It was up and down, and then like on a good graph. Okay, it started off here, and here's the chart on the stock. It started a buck, and now it's at 120, but it didn't go all the way to the top straight up. There was lulls and it's progression.

And that's how we program and show to be. So what was the thinking behind you guys building metalworks studio, where were your aspirations at that time? So that was prior

to the Allied Forces record. So we had done the Progressions of Power record, which didn't do as good as we thought it might. But, you know, not deterred at all. We continued on. And, you know,

we need to be able to have a place where we could do demos. That would be very helpful. So I'm on vacation, and we had a warehouse and, you know, with a couple of little offices in front of it. And the warehouse we stored here and we rehearsed them, but it was a warehouse.

One day, Joe Kye was like in Jamaica, actually. Joe calls me and says, hey, what do you think about setting up a demo studio in the warehouse? And I said, hey, if you want to take that on, buddy, you know, you price it out. So he went to work and he phoned me a week later. He goes, well, it doesn't make sense if we don't have a controller, a little controller. And I said, yeah, you're right.

Okay, let's go for it. Week later he calls me, you know, I can get this deal, a sponsorship deal on these MCI recording console and 224 track machines. I went, you said? He said, it's unbelievable. You know, I said, okay, it sounds pretty good. Over the course of two months, we based on the phone, you know, and I give this all on Gilk, because he did all the heavy lifting.

But we, the studio got designed. We had a control designed by the top guy in Canada. We had some of the best recording gear ever. And we had to record by two early late night. I guess we had a full-blown 48 track recording of course when we wanted to use it it was rented. Of course. Of course. So we have to have someone come in and

actually use it, right? That'd have to be done. So a band out of Vancouver called Duggan the Slugs used it to make their album, which went cold in Canada by the way. But they loved it. The sound you came about it there was good. It was just an incredibly pleasing experience for them. So then we go in there for Allied Forces and we spend weeks rehearsing songs and rewriting them and rewriting the hooks, rewriting the firsts, coming up with better introses, better solos. And then we were ready to make a record, finally, right? So, and I think that record really was the one that set us apart 100%.

you know it had you know magic power and quite a good fight and just it was it was a game changer just be you know the studio was definitely a major major part of that plus we've become a little better as writers and performers and musicians etc and being able to say just because we wrote it doesn't mean you know that it smells really good you know shit is shit it always smells bad So we were able to go, you know what? Because we could then go in that demo process, we go, okay, let's play down a bed track. So we have drums based guitar, put a scratch vocal on it, and go, that song really stinks. And you can't repair it.

There's no way that you could work on it for 10 years. It'll never get me better than what it is. And, you know, hit the erase button and it disappeared forever. You know what's so funny, everybody thinks of Canadians as being gentle, maybe not willing to give their opinion on things. And you've just, you know, went counter to that, Mike. Well, yeah, I'm the anti-apathetic Canadian. I don't like Canadians for that because they go, oh, well, gee whiz.

I guess I spent a lot of time of America really on in my life and bet people that were hardcore Democrats or hardcore Republicans and nobody's hardcore. They just go, oh well, I guess I have to vote. I guess that's just the way it is.

So the documentary, I love the documentary. Oh my God. Rock and roll machine. Talk about the process of working on that and how that felt sort of going back in time. Well, it's really a weird kind of experience because it started, I would say, around, I'm going to say, 2015. When it first began, it's, you know, embryonic stage. And it was, and it was, a friend of ours in Bryant Houston and

a director named Don Allen. Don had done a ton of triumph videos. They got together and said, you know, we should get the boys to make a film. And so that's kind of started to kind of went, yeah, that sounds good. And then there was a

screenwriter hired and Don went about business trying to raise funds and that. Out of Canada, you get a lot of government funding. you're smart and you play the game right so he done did a great job but he was really lousy at getting funny um so it kind of went by the wayside for a while and then it kind of reared its ugly head again i guess early 2019 when we said to todd thought either we got to do something or you know

you're out you know and he said well let me go to the boys at bangor films and see if we could do some kind of co-production. They said, sure, we're in. And they went and raised the rest of the money that was needed. And then we still went to work on it. And they wanted to do something, you know, because they had done, you know, Iron Maiden and Alice Cooper and Rush.

You know, and they were like the gold standard of guys doing rock docs. But they wanted to do something different with us. They wanted to tell the story of the band from the point of view of, here are three guys that kind of came from nowhere. and built this incredible career. And how did they do it? And how did the fans react? And let's not make it all about,

well, here's a picture of Mike Kevin, dinner with his parents. Isn't that swell, you know? They wanted to have the fans engaged with it, too, which I thought they did a great job, to make it more like a movie than a documentary. And I think they, they, you know, But at the end of the day, you know, when I look at the finished product, I think they did an absolutely incredible job.

It pushes all the buttons, you know. It makes you laugh. It makes you cry. It makes you happy. It makes you angry. So where can folks see it right now? I debuted on Access TV last week, I think. You can rent or buy it on Amazon through our merch.

store. So tell me about the tribute album that produced by Mike Klink. Tell me about that. So the tribute album, Mike Klink, who's one of the great record producers of all time. You know, he did Appetite for Destruction. White Steak, you name it, he's a Donne-Botland crew. He thought there would be a good idea to do a trium tribute record. So I went to Round Hill Music, who owns our recording rights, got a budget, and went to work, basically.

So it's really his project. You know, we have a little bit of input into it, but there's some incredible people on it, you know, like vocal-wise, Mickey Thomas and Tyler Connolly and Larry Dow and Joey Belladonna's, Sebastian Bach, amongst others, and the players from Phil Axe to Brian Titchie, to Tommy Aldrich, to Dita Strauss,

the Bumblefoot. He's got great players. And what I've heard so far is been really good. So that should be out in the, and they're hoping he'll be finished it a couple of weeks and have it available by the summertime. Well, I think folks should check out triummusic.com too, because it not only updates what's going on as far as the doc

and other cool happenings, but it's also where folks can get limited edition vinyl, right? Yeah, there's lots of vinyl going on. You know, colored vinyl more than just straight vinyl, like

neat colors and that kind of thing. So it's all limited addition stuff. And a lot of it is existing product, but a lot of it's going to be a totally unheard of live stuff that we found at our vaults and that are, you know, maybe we'll do a bootleg series.

It won't be the greatest quality because they're bootlings, but it would be fun to have Well, Mike, in closing, what would we do in our life if we didn't have music? Man, that would be, I don't think life would be anything. You know, you figure that music touches everybody in some way, shape, or form on a daily basis. So I think it's more important than a car, although, you know, you still need a car to listen to music sometimes. but music is

one of the great experiences entertainment experiences you'll ever have plus it's got emotion to it and you know the letters that we get

I think it's referred to in the doc that we get letters for people how music changed your lives you know our music in particular

but everybody's music touches somebody in some way and you know it's something that I think all musicians all recording artists

you know All promo guys, all radio guys should be very proud of them. They contribute to that whole process. Well, I got to thank you for all the music that you and the band certainly gave us, gave me. I hear from friends from back in the day that say, you know, I was just listening to the radio and magic power came on. And I thought of our time together. You know, it just brings you back. So I can't thank you enough for all of that and all of our hijinks together as well.

And I'm really grateful that we were on Taking a Walk. Well, it's a pleasure to be walking with you, Buzz. You're a hero in my books. You're the man. Thank you very much. Taking a Walk with Buzz Night is available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On a recent episode of the podcast, Money and Wealth with John Hobriant, I sit down with Tiffany the budgetista Aliche to talk about what it really takes to take control of your money.

What would that look like in our families if everyone was able to pass on wealth to the people when they're no longer here? We break down budgeting, financial discipline, and how to build real wealth, starting with the mindset shifts. Too many of us were never, ever taught. If you've ever felt you didn't get the memo on money, this conversation is for, you to hear more. Listen to Money and Wealth with John Hope Bryant from the Black Effect Network on on the I'd Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Earners, what's up? Look, money is something we all deal with, but financial literacy is what

helps turn income into real wealth. On each episode of the podcast, Earn Your Leisure, we break down the conversations you need to understand money, investing, and entrepreneurship. From stocks and real estate to credit, business, and generational wealth. Our goal is simple. Make financial literacy accessible for everyone. Because when you understand the system, you can start to build within it. Open your free I-Hard Radio app. Search Earn Your Leisure and Listen Now.

Readers, Katie's finalists, publicists. We have an incredible new episode this week for you guys. We have our girl Hillary Duff in here, and we can't wait for you to hear this episode. They put on Lizzie McGuire 2 a.m. Video on Demand. This guy's... 2 a.m. 2 a.m. Whatever time it is, Lizzie McGuire. And I'm like, a wild bat you were with.

It was like a first, like, closet moment from me where I was like, I don't feel like she's hot, like the rest of that. No, no, no. I was like, she's beautiful. But I'm appreciating her in a different way than these boys are. I'm not like, but listen to Los Coleristas on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. How much you wait, Wanda? Right now, about 130. I'm at 183. We should race. No, I want to leave here with my original hit. On the podcast. The podcast the matchup with Alia, I pair prominent female athletes with unexpected guests. On a recent episode, I sat down with undisputed boxing champ, Clarissa Shields, and comedian Wanda Sykes to talk about Wanda's new movie, Undercard, The Art of Trash Talk, and what it really means to be ladylike.

Open your free IHeartRadio app. Search the matchup with Alia and listen now. Brought to you by Novartis, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports Network. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.