The Bobby Bones Show - MORGAN: Why Music Education Matters More Than You Think

Episode Date: June 22, 2025

TAKE THIS PERSONALLY WITH MORGAN: Cayley Tull is the co-founder of Let Music Fill My World, an organization working to ensure that every child in America has access to music education in school. She explains how music shapes young people for the workforce in their adult lives and the connection between music exposure and graduation. As well as the importance of story-telling and how telling the story right, can be the difference in making a change. Follow Cayley's work: @letmusicfillmyworld Follow Morgan: @webgirlmorgan Follow Take This Personally: @takethispersonallySee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed human. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me. Clivert Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits,

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It's been the series of changemakers. Last week, Nile Harbison was on sharing his story all the way from Thailand. This week I have on Kaley Toll. She's another change maker in the world. And I've always found it so awesome when people take time out of their life to dedicate it to a cause. And that's exactly what Kaylee has done. She's a co-founder of Let Music Fill My World. They're dedicated to making sure every student in America has access to music education.

So let's get into this interview so you can hear why music is such an important part of our lives. I'm joined this week by Kaylee Toll. She is one of the co-founders of Let Music Fill My World. And I'm so excited to have you join and share your story. How are you? Thank you for having me. I'm really good. I mean, I'm especially good.

I've got this dog right here, Remy. Ms. Remy, the therapy dog. Who's keeping me company, keeping me warm. She is. Thank you for this. You should have led with this. I know. This is a real reason everybody comes is to get therapy,

is honestly, and I totally get it. I get therapy every day, so I totally enjoy this experience. Well, Gilly, I want to hear your story and why you are a co-founder of this incredible project. Well, a few years ago in 2023, John Androsic, Grammy-nominated artist of Fight for Fighting and I connected. And we came up with this concept about how to do good work right now in music education, which means getting teachers into schools where there aren't any, getting music educators into schools where there aren't any. and also how to do more storytelling about why music matters. Because it's so much more than a nice to have. It sounds good.

Kids like it. We like it. But actually, the research is pretty robust about the value of music to young people. And we can talk more about that later. But we really wanted to transform some of the storytelling so that more Americans could recognize that music education is an incredibly valuable and highly underutilized tool that we need now more than ever. Yeah. So did you ever have experience in your young life, in your, I guess, even just beyond being young, but as you were getting older, that music really played a

significant role for you? Yeah. Growing up on my mom's side of the family in particular, the mom was one of seven, we always were doing something musical. I have a lot of memories of gathering with the cousins at my grandparents' house in Orinda, California. And everyone would find something that would turn into an instrument. Some people would have real instruments, like a guitar. But most of us would just have something that would make noise. Some people would sing, and this feeling of everyone can contribute, everyone's a part of this, and that together we're making something special, really stuck with me.

And I think the creative outlet, the feeling of belonging and the playfulness of that as a young person is so valuable because there's no doubt that curriculum that we have, you know, math and science, we need all of that. But when we think about the skills for the future and what the future of work is going to look like, we really need young people that have the ability to be collaborative. and resilient and have critical thinking skills and a lot of innovation and creativity. And so we need to provide young people in school the tools that will help them build out. And music education, music and the arts are those avenues. I love that you were mentioning talking about in the school experience, because I often think about what my experience was like growing up, and I was very lucky that I had significant music education.

I was in choir and we did music programs and so much of our curriculum every single year had to include some form of music. And I think it played a really big role in the creative side of me to understand. I mean, heck, there was even a moment in time when I wanted to be a singer. That was like my purpose in life. You didn't want that. Right? Didn't we all want that at some point? Yeah. You see like the famous people are like, I want to be a star to do that. And then you realize, oh, actually, it's quite hard. Oh, yeah. Yeah. My. think very thankfully my mother tried very gently to let me down that that was just the whole process in itself for her but I really do think of so many of those moments and I remember them you know

where you don't remember a lot of your stories growing up as a kid but I can remember that I was singing on the stage about the barn there was this old TV show with a barn I think his name was Ed there was a horse and I know that's like so many very random details but I remember that we did this old school play of like these old songs and I had a solo and I was so excited. That's a big deal. Yeah. And you get you practice and it's you learn and develop so many skills through that. You try. You fail. You have to put yourself out there. Yeah. And you have to have have the confidence to go out on stage and sing in front of all these people you don't know. And then when it happens, you build this confidence up within yourself. Even if you're not doing a solo.

It's still nerve-wracking. And then you learn that you're a part of a team that it's not. always about you front and center. And when I think about why music and the arts, music education in particular is so important, it makes me think of just going back to the core of why are we sending kids to school in the first place? Why is education important? And I think when you really boil it down, it matters because we're preparing young people to succeed as adults. We want young people to thrive now, to learn now. We want them to get good grades. We want them to show up at school. don't want them to get in trouble, but why? It's because we want to prepare them for adulthood for joining the workforce. And I think we have to get back to thinking a little more out of the box

about what that looks like for today. And I think we could be doing better. And it's not a partisan issue. I mean, something that's backed so robustly by research. I mean, the thing about music education that is, there's two things that stand out to me. One, it's not an issue. It's not an issue. of invention, it's actually an implementation problem, which is to say, we already know that music is an incredibly effective tool for young people, for mental health, for academic performance, for workforce readiness. But we don't do the best job at implementing that evenly across the U.S. And the number of, you know, there's four million students that don't have access to music education in America, it sounds bad, and it's not great.

But that's just scratching the surface because what we really have to look at is what can we be doing through music education that's preparing young people to succeed. So it's just one music class really going to do that. And then the other piece that is a part of this is how this is a totally nonpartisan issue. Because it's backed by data. It's not just someone saying, you know, this is something that's nice to have. believe me. The research is so clear. I mean, the fact that students involved in music education and the arts are five times more likely to graduate high school is mind-blowing. That's a crazy number that I didn't even or wouldn't even correlate. So why do you think that

is you being in this and working with this organization for so long, why do you think music does play such a significant impact in kids graduating? I think we have to be realistic that success and innovation takes all kinds. And you just don't always know how you're going to capture someone's imagination and really light up their potential. For some kids, that can be math and science and history. I loved history. But I also really loved music. And I had the opportunity to have that in school.

So I think why the research reflects that students that participate in music and the arts have a much higher likelihood of graduating high school is because it's one of many tools that we know delivers. Music education delivers. And that's what we should be focused on now more than ever. I mean, America is so focused on efficiency, making sure that we spend our money wisely on the economy. And we should be. and we should be focused on how do we do those things. And we shouldn't discard, we shouldn't discard viable avenues to do that.

When we know that they're actually pretty simple, they already exist, we don't have to start from scratch, we just have to do a better job at making music education, in this case, available to every student in America. Why do you feel like music? I'm picturing especially the movie

and maybe you've probably seen it with Kevin James where he goes in him he becomes a boxer to save the school program, the music program. I haven't seen that one. Okay, this is a hilarious movie. But this is exactly what he's doing is he knows that the music teacher is about to have a kid and they're all in this big meeting with the principal and he's like, we're about to cut the music program completely. And he's like, we can't do that.

And then he like blurts out. Okay, well, he's pregnant or his wife. pregnant, whatever. He's like, we gotta save it. And he decides to become a boxer to raise money for the music program. I love that. And it's this whole storyline and I love this movie, but I'm picturing that right now because music programs are often the first thing to get cut when funding is getting cut. Why do you feel like it becomes not an important tool for us to use? Like we have the research. Yeah. We have the numbers. But why is it the first thing people reach for to say, No more.

I think we do what's easy often, not always what's right. It's state by state. So every state, which I think is totally reasonable, has their own standards for education and implements that accordingly. I think if we looked at what really delivered for young people and really considered the facts, it would be impossible to cut music in the arts. But I think that's a tougher route than to cut something that may not be as protected, may not have as much history at that school,

may not have as strong of a support system or a lobbying base. But for example, the first school that John and I went into in Chicago, called Farragut Career Academy in the Little Village neighborhood, they had had a music program a couple years prior, lost it due to funding, exactly as you're describing. And what we did when we went into that school, in addition to John working with a group of kids to write this original song, Let Music Fill My World,

he taught them about the music industry. They interacted with seasoned industry professionals to learn about all the different things that can be done in music education. Right? You don't have to just be the musician. It's the most fun one, I think. But, you know, like that there's a lot of avenues. Or it's not even an avenue in music. But it's about what you can learn through music.

And the things that we heard from the students about how they felt during these two months or so that we were with them, they felt connected with their peers. They wanted to come to school. They felt like they had a safe space to try new things. And if school isn't meant to be that, I don't know what it is meant to be. We want young people to go to school feeling confident, open-minded, curious, and engaged. And that's just not going to look the same for every student. So I think why is that the case? Why is music and the arts often cut?

I think just because it's easy, but not because it's right and not because the data backs it up. And does not make you just kind of so mad that we do do what's easy often instead of the right thing in understanding what's the most beneficial for kids in the programs? Well, usually when I get mad, I get really active. My family calls me turbulently active. We talked before this. It's not always a good thing. So then it makes me wonder, okay, if this is the case, what are we missing?

What's not going right? why are we making it so easy for music education to get cut? And that's where I think the storytelling really comes in. Music education isn't just about the short-term impacts. Those are well-documented. They are really powerful. Of course we want students to show up to school. Of course we want them to get good grades.

We don't want them to get in trouble. But that really matters only because of what comes next. And that's the part of the story that I think. we can talk more about in this space, which is preparing young people to thrive, creating better humans, and really arming our young people with the tools that they need to be successful after graduation with whatever they do. You hear a little bit less about that, a little bit less about the medium to long-term economic outcomes. And there is less research in that space. We're funding new research through Nork at the University of Chicago,

which is an important part of this because it should always be data-driven. It shouldn't just be about the emotion. But that's the part of the story. I think we can do a better job building. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying.

Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes,

creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. You can have opinions. You can have like a strong stance. And then there's your body having its own program. I'm Dr. Maya Shunker, a cognitive scientist and hosts of the podcast a slight change of plans, a show about who we are and who we become when life makes other plans. We share stories and scientific insights to help us all better navigate these periods of turbulence and transformation. There is one finding that is consistent, and that is that our resilience rests on our relationships. I wish that I hadn't resisted for so long the need to change.

We have to be willing to live with a kind of uncertainty that none of us likes. Listen to a slight change of plans on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I feel like it was a little bit unbelievable until I really start making money. It's Financial Literacy Month, and the podcast, Eating While Broke is bringing real conversations about money, growth, and building your future. This month, hear from top streamer, Zoe Spencer, and Venture Capitalist. Lakeisha Landrum Pierre, as they share their journeys from starting out to leveling up. If I'm outside with my parents and they're seeing all these people come up to me for pictures, it's like, what?

Today now, obviously, it's like 100%. They believe everything. But at first, it was just like, you got to go get a real job. There's an economic component to community striving. If there's not enough money and entrepreneurship happening in communities, they fail. And what I mean by fell is they don't have money to pay for food. They cannot feed their kids. They do not have homes.

communities don't work unless there's money flowing through them. Listen to Eating While Broke from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Okay, so let's get into that then a little bit because I'd love to, and I'm so curious because I don't even have the tools or information to start to dive into that place, but I'm just curious why this is such an important piece of this for you with this organization, because understanding how music plays a role, I can understand, I love music.

I know how it makes me feel. I know I can listen to music to get through certain times. And I know that music helps me and I know that learning instruments is good for my brain. Like I know those pieces, but why is this part so important for you guys at this stage? So I spent the first part of my career a little over a decade in government service. And I had the chance to travel and work all over the world. saw many different cultures, a lot of different ways that things were done, that people lived their lives, and saw good, bad, saw it all. And then when I came back to the U.S. and decided that I wanted

to stay here at home for some time, what I realized was that the outside in perspective that I'd had for so long, how to keep the U.S. safe, strong, prosperous from the outside in was just a part of the puzzle. And in fact, there's so much that needs to be done here at home to keep us safe, strong, and prosperous. And I got really curious about what that looks like. When I set up our family office a couple years ago, the main thing that we focused on across a couple of different industries is human potential. And we look for opportunities where human potential is not being leveraged is being missed where there's really an opportunity to redesign, rewire, where business as usual just isn't going to cut it anymore.

And so we started in workforce. And the whole idea was we need to engage overlook talent because the consequences for our economy are significant. It's not just about the human story. That's an important part. but it's also about what will continue to keep our country strong and functional and successful for the future to come. So we started a couple of different initiatives in that space, and the biggest feedback that we heard from employers was that new hires weren't work ready.

And when we dug into that, what we learned was that was about executive functioning and of these 21st century skills. So resiliency, thinking out of the box, working on a team, collaboration, those are not taught in the certification program. Those are not taught in the degree program that's required for that person to apply to and get the job. So then we started to think out of the box ourselves. How can we go upstream? What currently exists that we can help leverage, grow, and expand. And I dove into music education. Not at all at the expense of arts,

but mainly at eating the elephant kind of issue where I was like, you got to start somewhere. There's a lot going on in this space. Yeah, like how do we narrow this down and just really start to take a chunk out of this? Exactly. And once I started to read a lot about what we already knew when it comes to music education,

how it delivers for young people, and the benefits in the short and medium term, I was shocked that we weren't seeing more success in this space. And that comes back again, I think, to the way that we do storytelling. And sometimes you have to just shake it up a little bit. And that's what Let Music Fill My World is doing. And we're doing it through great partnerships and a coalition with many other organizations that exist in this space.

Because as a nonprofit that's fully funded, we have a little more flexibility. to be creative and to try to build really broad partnerships with organizations that have been doing this for a long time and have had many successes. But what we're talking about here is scale. So how do we get to a point where every student in America has access to music education, where it's obvious to all Americans how valuable music education is in school? That's a part of it too, who allows you. the individuals that are making legislative choices about music and the arts. We all do. So it's our responsibility to be educated about this topic. But people have a million things on their mind all the time. You can't expect people to focus and zoom in on just one

issue that you might care about. So we've got to make a little noise. And we're doing that through the Music Matters Challenge. We're doing that through this power of music series that we have going on. But the bottom line is it's a good news story. We know that music education works. It's available to us. We can do a better job, but we have to do it together. Well, in hearing you talk about this and understanding there's a few different pieces to this that I want to address, but understanding people as a whole. And I think understanding the younger generations coming up have had different educational experiences than a lot of us have had. And just as, I mentioned how I had music, I also played a lot of sports.

I also got to be involved in a lot of different activities and different programs. And as you're talking about this, I don't think I ever realized how much that played a role in who I became as an adult. I was involved actively in a volunteer organization. I was actively involved with animal organizations. I was actively involved in music programs. I was actively part of sports. I played every sport. I tried to learn to play multiple instruments.

I think I had piano and guitar lessons all the time. I love that. But there was so much that I got to be exposed to. Exposure. Mm-hmm. Yes. And like I'm thinking of me as a human being now. And had I not had so much of that different exposure,

I would be a completely different person. And I wouldn't be the worker that I am because of those different moments of exposure and different things in my life. And I feel really lucky right now in this moment talking to you that I did have those experiences. But to your point, we're in a different place in time. And that exposure isn't happening. Well, and it's happening in some places. But it's not happening evenly.

And the result is we're leaving a lot of young minds behind. And you just never know who is going to come up with the next incredible idea. who is going to be a powerful social entrepreneur. You don't know. But what you can know for sure is that if you're not providing all of these different outlets for young people in every community to explore, to innovate, to try new things, to be creative, it's very unlikely that you're going to see the same outcomes from those communities. So this isn't a conversation about equity at its core.

This is really a conversation about doing better for all of America. Because when we do better for that person, it's also better for me. We don't need to get caught up in this being like a fleeting social movement. It's not. This is about results. And that's why it's a nonpartisan issue. This is about doing something that works for young people that will be effective in schools so that the moment graduation comes around, whether they pursue something in the music industry in the entertainment industry or something completely different, that they feel ready and prepared. And that isn't happening well across the country.

There's some positive trends for mental health for young people in particular, but there's other trends that are really concerning. about young people being optimistic for the future, feeling prepared. And we need to deliver for young people by investing in the resources that we know will help them succeed. And music education is not a panacea. I'm not over here saying, like, this is the end all, be all, this is all that we need. I'm no hippie. But we have to do what works. Yeah.

And we know that music education delivers for students. So we need to ensure that every student in America has access to music education in school. And it has to be in school because we don't know what will happen after school with families, with different priorities. What is the time of it? Can a family afford it? There's a million different considerations. but if this is within school hours, we know that a student will have access to it.

Well, and that's such a big topic of conversation too, right? Because there are kids who they only get access to things when they go to school, especially within the public education side of things. So I'm assuming that's also where you guys are trying to help fill that void, is making sure these schools that have less resources, that have lower income areas that just don't have the, access that other places do are getting the access to things that they need. I'm assuming that's part of this too.

Yeah. So the focus of Let Music Fill My World, as we mentioned, is to ensure that every student in America has access to music education in school. And what we're doing is directly funding on an annual basis, at least one school, for a period of three years, why three years, so that there's time to build up the program and prove how and where it's working for students. and each year we fund at least one school. We started in Chicago.

We have selected the next school, which we'll be announcing shortly, which is on the West Coast. And then the Music Matters Challenge will help us pick the next school. So you need the teacher in the school for sure, right? You have to have that. But you also need other things. You need instruments. You need curriculum. And there are many incredible organizations that already exist that are doing that.

But the tough part is you need the teachers. teacher. You need the space. You need the time allocated at the school. There's competing priorities. But I think the bottom line is if Americans recognize the value of music education to our young people, to our children, then we'll demand that music education is accessible and available to all students. And that brings us back to the storytelling. You can't just want something to happen, think it's really important, and then get mad that it doesn't work. You got to work hard towards it. And many organizations have been doing that, have seen some progress.

But what I think that we can do, and we are hoping to support through Let Music Fill My World, is to try to reframe the discussion a little bit, make it more about those medium to long-term economic outcomes. How is this helping young people succeed after graduation with what comes next? Yeah, well, and you're talking about this too. And I feel like it would be important to also share what, have you guys been able to see kids who have gotten access to music education? And then the difference it made in their life as they started to grow up and get a little bit older.

And like, have you guys been able to see some of that transition yet in the work that you're doing? So far at Farragut Career Academy, we've been working with. Principal Nanavati who grew up in India and shared that in his education, music and the arts was a total standard and how much it contributed to his worldview and his success as an educator. And last year we hired Mr. Vander Craven, who is their full-time music educator. So the feedback that we've gotten so far from Farragut within this short time frame has been anecdotal. But for what it's worth, the attendance is up, disciplinary infractions are down, and students are performing better academically. And those are the results that we would expect to see.

So we're seeing them. We'll continue to monitor and to measure. And the idea is that by providing the consistency of funding over three years, that the program will prove itself to the community and be able to make a strong case for securing future funding. So we'll cross that bridge when we get there. We're not going to abandon them. But what we hope is that we can create a more sustainable approach that will result in onward funding that's not philanthropic in nature so that it can truly be more sustainable for that community.

Yeah, and just something that becomes a basis. It's something that has to be included. It's not a question of if so much of what you're, talking about too revolves around just the education of this alone understanding how music plays a role why it's important how in general exposure to just different types of things plays a role yeah in all human beings especially as you're young and your learning and understanding the world around you i think that's a huge piece to a lot of this too is just getting people to hear the story You're right.

That's what you were saying is the storytelling. And I think it was Plato that famously said, you discover more about a person in one hour of play than one year of conversation. And lessons like that really have to think about when it comes to education. Because what do you want from a teacher and a school? You want them to understand your child. You want them to have an idea of what's needed to help your child succeed. And so whether that's a kind of play,

whether we're talking about music and the arts, recess sports. It shouldn't come. Music education need not come at the expense of some kind of physical activity. I was an athlete growing up like you, tried so many different sports. And that was hugely valuable for me growing up and learning a lot of important lessons. But we have to think a little bit differently about what should be included on a regular basis for every student. and ensure that we're making those decisions based on what is working, not just how it's been.

It's really hard to change institutional investments. But we have to do it when we're not delivering for our young people because those are our future leaders, and we should be doing everything that we can to make the investments necessary now so that when they enter their workforce, that I'm not talking with an employer saying, it seems like a great candidate.

They had all the qualifications, but they just aren't work-ready. I mean, how devastating. They've invested so much in a student and a young person. No doubt they're working their tail off. And then they get into that role, that career, and they're missing key skills that will make it much harder for them to excel.

It's a piece to the puzzle that we haven't been talking about when it comes to lacking younger people in the workforce, and what that looks like. I mean, I've worked with younger people, and there's no shortage of some of them where I'm just like, I feel like we had drastically different educations of understanding what hard work and time and effort looks like. And that's okay.

It's just there's a missing piece. And this is that missing piece to the puzzle that I think is missing in the conversation around education and careers and what we need to evolve to do better. Yeah. Well, and that's a part of the conversation, which is the future of work. So we think we have a good sense of what jobs look like now, although we're seeing a lot of changes in many industries. But what will be required in the future of work? We will need to constantly reskill ourselves and reinvent how we show up professionally, because many jobs will change.

Some will disappear. Some will just evolve. and if we don't have a workforce that has that kind of resiliency and agility, we're going to be in a world of pain. And it will be our own doing. There's some things that you can prepare for and some things you just can't. But what we can do a better job preparing for are those skills that when push comes to shove, when a new obstacle comes up, when something unexpected happens with work, that you can pivot.

And I agree with you. I'm not convinced that we are doing enough in particular for new people joining the workforce to give them those skills so that when something comes up, they say, okay, I can take this on. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care which I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football,

or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became. became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music.

The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford

and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. I feel like it was a little bit unbelievable until I really start making money. It's Financial Literacy Month, and the podcast Eating While Broke is bringing real conversations about money, growth, and building your future. This month hear from top streamer, Zoe Spencer, and venture capitalist Lakeisha Landrum Pierre,

as they share their journeys from starting out to leveling up. If I'm outside with my parents and then see all these people come up to me for pictures, it's like, what? Today now, obviously, it's like 100%. They believe everything, but at first it was just like, you gotta go get a real job. There's an economic component to community striving. If there's not enough money and entrepreneurship happening in communities, They fail.

And what I mean by fail is they don't have money to pay for food. They cannot feed their kids. They do not have homes. Communities don't work unless there's money flowing through them. Listen to Eating While Broke from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. You can have opinions. You can have like a strong stance. And then there's your body having its own program.

I'm Dr. Maya Shunker. a cognitive scientist and hosts of the podcast, a slight change of plans, a show about who we are and who we become when life makes other plans. We share stories and scientific insights to help us all better navigate these periods of turbulence and transformation. There is one finding that is consistent, and that is that our resilience rests on our relationships. I wish that I hadn't resisted for so long the need to change. We have to be willing to live with a kind of uncertainty that none of us likes. Listen to a slight change of plans on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. It is. It is a drastically different experience that I have and I have witnessed not only being over people but working with people.

It's a different type of work ethic that until you and I were even having this conversation, I would have never equated to the young version of me and the skills and things that I learned. And that's why this conversation is important, because, again, we're not having it. There's not a lot of this happening out in the space of understanding. Yeah. I think we like to forget that so many pieces of the puzzle have to come together for something to really work. More often than not, we just have a few pieces and we're trying to shove it together

and make something work without understanding the entire picture. Absolutely. Well, and that is a little bit related to this invention versus implementation point, which is it feels easier sometimes. And I'm not sure why this is true to say, well, we need to invent something. It's got to be something new that's going to solve this. But a lot of times we do have all the puzzle pieces, just as you said, we're just not putting them together either at all or well.

And then the result is our poor outcomes. And then we say, there must be something new that we can invent here. And I'm no enemy of invention. There's plenty of cases where we do need innovation. I don't think that this is one of them. At least not now. I think we can do a lot better with what we have. Then, if needed, we can position ourselves so much more strongly to say,

okay, now every student in America has access to music education in school. These are the outcomes that we're seeing. and this is how we could do even more and build on it. But we're not even at part one yet. Because we're still missing out on providing too many young people, too few young people with the benefits of music education. Well, and to your point, invention is something that's so exciting, right? It's something that makes change easier, I think, to digest.

Yeah. Because it's new and cool and people want new and cool. But what they don't want is something they've already had just a little bit shifted. Yeah. Because change is hard. Change makes people uncomfortable. But when you make it bright, new and shiny, oh, it's like I would equate it to like an iPhone user going to Android or Android going to iPhone.

It's like, oh, bright new shiny, I've never touched this, but it's been around forever. But it's some new idea, new invention that sparks a change. And I think that's so interesting. That is where we are at as a society that the only way we're allowing change is if it is bright, new and shiny, instead of just saying, how can we do better with what we have. Yeah. Well, it's harder. It's no doubt it's more difficult. That route feels more difficult. Is it more difficult in the long term? And I'm not so sure. But in the moment, it feels like much easier solution just to find something new. But now at this time in our country, we're in a

period of great transition. And no matter what your political leanings are, I think a lot of us can agree, there's a lot of areas where we can do better. And so let's start with an area that is not political at all. It's about helping young people succeed. And it's not even about more money. It's about doing well with what we have and showing results. I think it's hard to argue against that. It should be, right? It should be something that's hard to argue against. I'm going to keep trying to frame it like that. Yeah. And you know, and it should be though. And as I'm sitting here and we're talking about it and music is one and sharing your background of where you started to where this kind of came built out of.

I often think I went to Europe for the first time over Christmas last year. And I was so fascinated that we went to three different countries. And everybody that we met spoke multiple languages. And then there was me. There was me. And I'm American. And I'm like, I had basically minored in French. I have one language that's mostly gone because I know.

I have other skills. But it was always fascinating to me that they always found it so important to find ways to communicate with the entire world. But we never did. We never found it important. And it's not just communication. It's connection. It's understanding.

And I mean, we're such a interconnected world now. I think that's such an astute observation. It connects to this in the sense of why are we also lacking this? Why are we finding it's so not important to understand other languages, to communicate with other humans that are literally, on our planet. Listen, I'm fascinated by space and technology. I hope we find aliens someday. But yes, I would love to speak to aliens someday, but I'd also just like to be able to speak

to other people that are currently on this planet and understand their language and who they are in their cultures. And it's just to me ties so much into this of we're just missing so many pieces that we could have. Yeah. That could easily be part of our education. That could easily be part of our experiences as kids. Yeah. And we're just missing it. And this is a huge part of that. Music education is that.

And this is another one. That's like you said, no, you can't bite off every single piece. There's a whole lot of them. I recognize that we're just lacking so much in so many different areas where we really could do better if we just took that one step, which is the step that you guys are taking within music education. Yeah, it's having that curiosity and being.

willing to try hard things. And I don't think that, let me put it this way, I think those are skills that you can learn. Maybe some people come out that way, and that's wonderful. But I do think you can also foster a sense of curiosity and magic and awe for the world around you, that it's about exposure. It's about seeing new things. And it's about challenging what you think you know. In my case, after September 11th, I decided that I wanted to go into foreign government service.

And it was because I thought there must have been a way that we could have done this better, that we could have avoided this great tragedy, that we could have responded with less chaos, with less destruction, with more success. And those sentiments came from a place that I would never, I've thought of, which is I had built in already the desire to learn, to be curious, to be willing to do hard things, and to know that it's worth it. You don't always know where you're going to end up, but what we need to foster in young people is a desire to find out and not an apathy and a disconnectedness. So again, I do not think that music is a panacea, but I do

think that whatever we're doing right now is not working as well as it could. And that really concerns me. I mean, as the mother of a seven-year-old and one more on the way, I think about what we might be able to provide as a family. And then what my children will encounter in the world, and their peers, and the people that they interact with. And there should, in our country, the greatest country in the world, there should be a baseline level of education. that is quality and accessible and includes the key opportunities and skills that we think are necessary for today. Not for 20 years ago, not 50 years ago, but for right now, for what we see coming down

the pike when it comes to workforce, the international challenges that we see. And I think that that's going to require a little bit of a redesign. It's going to be a little scary. It's not going to be easy, but we have to do it. you talking about this reminded me of something that I say often, especially on this podcast, is once we know better, we should do better. And that's a really hard thing to come to terms with because it's easy to know better and still do the same thing.

But once you know it and once you're aware of it, you should want this desire to do better in anything. And this and what we're talking about and the mental health and relationships, everything that we talk about and subjects on this podcast. but it goes back to that curiosity of I want to evolve. I want to be a better person. I want to be curious. I want to be open-minded.

I want to change the world. And I do think so much of that started. I'm really having this. This is kind of a therapy session for me right now, Kali. I'm not sure what you're doing to me. And you also get Remy. It's kind of not fair. I know.

She came over here, but. I'm just realizing how much so much of my child. childhood played a role not just in the mental health side, which is really where the focus has been, but just in the exposure that you have, not just with your families, not just with the people you're around, but in the things that you experience and what you see, what you get to be involved with. And it's crazy to look at that and not have ever put the pieces to that puzzle together until this moment. Yeah. And you hope that for other people, And I know there was plenty of people that I grew up with that did not have the same exposures that I did.

Or we had vastly different resources and different lifestyles. And that's part of economics and understanding how the world works. But what you guys are doing to try and level the playing field is really important. And again, I think describing it as leveling the playing field is true. but it's incomplete because it's leveling the playing field, not just because it's a good thing, it is, but because it's effective. Yeah.

And because we want to be results driven. So you're not just doing something because it's the right thing to do. You're doing it also because it's the smart thing to do. And I think the more that we can tell that part of the story, which is I think we've been focused a little more on the former, doing the right thing by providing equitable music. education. That's true. But what about the why? And that's what we've been so excited about through Let Music Fill My World is to highlight stories where people are sharing, now I'm in this

role, I'm an executive, I'm a doctor, I'm in the music industry, whatever it is. And this is how music, that universal language, that place that I had where I could just be myself, this is how music led me to that. And I love that. I think that's a really great opportunity for us to shake it up a little bit and tell more stories because, as I said before, ultimately, we need Americans to believe and support and fight for having the kind of education system that every student in our country deserves. And to me, that must be inclusive of music education. Yeah, it definitely does. And you couldn't have said it more eloquently, which is also why I love, like, throwing things out there because it always makes people go on random things, and I love it. It's my favorite part.

I like to end the podcast with you sharing something maybe that we haven't been able to touch on or a piece of advice or inspiration or whatever it may be. The floor is open to yours to share, to end us on something that is really just close to your heart or maybe it's on your mind right now, whatever that thing is. The first thing that comes to mind is, I'm a big reader. I like an annoying, like my husband's always just like, why are you always read? Like I read all the time, but nonfiction and fiction, all sorts of stuff. I think that's another wonderful avenue for curiosity and understanding the world around you. And there's this book by Matt Haig called The Midnight Library.

And in it, he said, to visit a new world, you don't need a spaceship. All you have to do is change your mind. And I love that because I think it's not only applicable to what we're talking about, which is to say you don't need the shiny invention of a spaceship. You actually can visit a new world through the implementation and doing better and using what you have. But it's so true for other parts of life that it is often more difficult to change your mind, to put yourself in someone else's shoes, to see things from a different perspective. but we have to work so hard to try to do it,

not because it's the right thing, but because it's the smart thing. We will be better people, better family members, better employees, if we can see things holistically and have the curiosity to challenge our worldviews. And that is what our young people need, and we should be providing in every single school in America

by providing music education to all of our students. I love that. That quote is going to stick with me for a while. I think that's super impactful. I need to. Now, I mean, that one quote gets me. I always love, I love a book. I'm like you. I like books that challenge my views. I like books that just give me a different perspective. It's important and it's necessary. But I also know that that's hard for people to do and it's hard to. Well, everyone has their own way. Not everyone's a reader, you know, but there's so many different ways that you can get that same feeling. And, you know, if you can read a book and then there's one quote or one part and it just stops you in your tracks, and you're like, hang on a second. Yes.

Right? And music does that too. Yeah. That's why music is such an amazing tool in a universal language. We don't have to speak the same language. A piece of music doesn't even have to have words at all. And we can both hear it and both experience something powerful that might be totally different, by the way. but could still connect us.

And that's amazing. There are not that many things in the world that can connect people so seamlessly with such distinct backgrounds. No. And, you know, honestly, my whole life, especially doing social media and stuff at this point in my career, I've always said there's two things that most people universally don't necessarily argue over in its food and music, which I find very interesting. I think that's true.

And I would also add magic. Everybody loves magic. And it doesn't matter how old you are. You don't have to speak the language. But magic is something that completely changes what you think is possible. And that's a really cool thing. Music can do the same food, can do the same too. You eat something and your mind is blown, right?

Yeah. And your whole idea of something changes. Like, why have I never thought of that? But there are a couple things in that category. And those are really special. Yeah. So the more that we can create opportunities for people of all ages, all walks of life, to have those transformative experiences that connect us, that challenge the way that we see

the world around us, you will all be better for it. I definitely agree. Well, Kaylee, thank you for sharing your mind, your experience, your story. Thank you. It was so fun to hear from you and also just connect with you because I think we are too very much women who are leadership driven. And I think there's a special place when you have this drive behind you to want to be a leader and want to change the world and do things for the better.

It's cool to connect with somebody that has a similar mindset in that because it's also hard to find. It's also excited. I feel the same. You can do good and you can do well and you can bring people along with you. Life is full of surprises. It's never what we expect it. No. And the minute that we stop expecting certain things is the minute everything turns to magic

kind of like you were saying. I love that. I can't imagine a better way to end. Oh, it's perfect. Well, Kaylee, thank you. Thank you. Kaylee's knowledge on this topic and education in general was cool to hear. Like I said, Changemaker. That concludes this series. So make sure you follow, let music fill my world on Instagram to follow the work they're doing and for ways to get involved. Next week is our series with the senior living community that I volunteer out here in town, Apes Garden. We'll hear from some of the incredible employees and then some of the residents who are 80 and above. Subscribe so you don't miss it. I'm so happy you're here, as always. I'll talk with you guys next week. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clivert Taylor

the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. It's Financial Literacy Month, and the podcast Eating While Broke is bringing real conversations about money, growth, and building your future. This month, hear from top streamer, Zoe Spencer, and venture capitalist Lakeisha Landrum Pierre,

as they share their journeys from starting out to leveling up. There's an economic component to communities thriving. If there's not enough money and entrepreneurship happening in communities, they failed. Listen to Eating While Broke from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, I'm Dr. Maya Shunker, a cognitive scientist and hosts of the podcast, a slight change of plans, a show about who we are and who we become when life makes other plans. I wish that I hadn't resisted for so long. the need to change. We have to be willing to live with a kind of uncertainty that none of us likes.

You can have opinions. You can have like a strong stance. And then there's your body having its own program. Listen to a slight change of plans on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.