The Bobby Bones Show - TAKE THIS PERSONALLY: She Stayed Silent for 50 Years… Then Took Her Abuser to Court

Episode Date: May 10, 2026

Darlene Lekowski lived with a secret for 50 years. What began as childhood trauma inflicted by two of her siblings turned into a lifetime of silence, survival, and hidden pain. But when that silence finally broke, it set off a chain of events no one could have expected... including a lawsuit and a courtroom fight for the truth. This episode is about more than what happened, it's about what comes after. Darlene opens up about reclaiming her voice, letting go of shame that was never hers, the long road from survival to healing, and the courage it takes to finally speak.  ⚠️ listener discretion advised: This episode discusses sensitive topics including abuse and trauma. 🎧 Subscribe to the podcast for more episodes. 📲 Follow Darlene on Instagram: @darlenelekowski 📚 Read the book: Shattering Silence 📲 Follow @takethispersonally & @webgirlmorgan on Instagram.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. There was no anything inside those eyes. They turned black. It scared the hell out of me. Evil, wake up. I'm the one that saw the murder take place by Crevette and DePippo. Anthony DePippo showed no signs of remorse,

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We've here, since everyone has a podcast, we wanted to as well. And we've had some incredible guests so far. And now our good friend, Nile Horn, is joining the show. How's it going, boys? Hey, Niall. It's the same thing with Slow Hands. Slow Hands is not about anything else, really, is it? You know, or taste so good can be about full.

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Everything here is spontaneous, real, and genuine. Just honest conversations about what it means to be. alive. I'm Javier El Chicharito Hernandez and listen to Learning to Be Human on IHard Radio, Apple Podcasts, or whatever you get your podcast. The impactful stories continue this week with another one in the series. I hope you're able to listen to Caroline's story last week, watching it brought up all the emotions since I did the interview, and the same will go for this week's story. You'll want to cry in moments, yell in others, and be completely outraged, and all of that is totally valid. As I mentioned last week, we are talking about some difficult things on the subject of sexual assault. While I highly encourage everybody to not

miss this episode, I want you to take care of yourselves first. Darling is a woman of pure strength and the things she had to endure are heartbreaking. But she's here this week to share her story. And in doing so, bringing awareness to help others. Everyone get ready to meet Darlene. Darlene Likowski joins me this week. She is an author and has a just incredible story to share of one that, gosh, on so many levels, I think a lot of people would be afraid to talk about, but Darlene is not, which is why I'm really happy to have her join me. Darling, thanks for being here. Thanks for having me.

I'm really excited to join you today. And I don't know how else for us to get started than getting right into it. Oftentimes, sometimes we'll go about things in a different direction, but so much of your story starts there. Yeah. And so I really want you to walk us through before we, because I have just so many questions and talking so many things. But tell me your story, the reason why you wrote this book,

the backstory, the creation of all of this. Yeah. It comes in several parts, as you know. So why don't we just start with part one? The first part is, sadly, the world betrayed me when I was seven. And from the ages of seven to 12, I was sexually assaulted by my two oldest brothers. Brothers who are supposed to protect you, take care of their little sister. instead were abusing me on and off for five years.

And that's where the story starts. Such a hard place to start at. I know. I cannot imagine even experiencing it. We're sitting here having to have these conversations. And you wrote a whole book talking about a lot of it. So you've had experience now in reliving. I imagine some of those moments.

But as a seven-year-old, did you even realize this was happening? Was there any part of you that has blocked a lot of that out? Walk me through your experience. as a seven-year-old who had that and I just, I can't fathom it. So I'm trying to help go there with you. You're right. As a seven-year-old, you don't know what's going on. And the first brother, so there were two brothers two different times. And they claimed neither one knew what the other one was doing, but I found out later from friends that wasn't true. You're seven, the first brother is nine years older than me. So he is, he didn't, am I allowed to use the word, the R word? I can use any word.

Okay. I just want, I want to make sure. So he didn't rape me, but he made me witness him to do things to himself. And it was pretty physically violent, even though our part wasn't a part of it. and I tried to escape him and one of the incidents and he found me. And I think at that moment, I was eight. So each assault has almost happened a year apart. And I built a lot of strategies as a little girl. So I wasn't raped every day after school. Like a lot of these kids are.

Oh, my gosh. I know. I can't imagine the processing that you're having to do as such a young kid to survive. That's exactly what I did. Truly. And your home is supposed to be a safe place. That's the whole thing that we're taught.

You're even taught it in school. That home is a safe place. So when it isn't a safe place, what was that experience like for you? Were your parents aware? What was the environment at your home? What was all of that as part of this story? Yeah.

There's a perception that incest, that icky word, that we now call sibling sexual trauma and abuse only happens in poor families. I was in an upper middle class family, the country color family, my dad had a big job at our firm top of engineering. He had the office with the shower. My mom actually owned a Christian bookstore, big pillars in the community. And in the 1970s, this little girl was having this happen to her from her older brothers.

and the threats. I'm sure you've heard this before with other assault victims, but especially to a young child, if you tell, mom and dad will probably believe you, but then they'll abandon you. You'll be the black sheep. You'll be the one destroying the family.

You'll be the one to blame. And I had a really good life. 90% of it was good. I had a loving mother and father. I had an older sister who was 11 years older than me that didn't hurt me. And then I had a brother two and a half years older than me. Then I was really close to.

That first brother taught me I could never escape the danger. Then when it started with the second brother in 1975, I just learned almost, I hate to say it this way, but almost to accept what was happening to me and live my life forward any way that I could. so I build all kinds of survival tactics and strategies. So I was never in that house. So I took that box of trauma. I took my trauma and shoved it in a box. And I just said, this is never going to hurt me again. And I even talk about it in the book.

I'm at nine years old now. Now it's the second brother. And I just made a postulate that you can steal my childhood. You can destroy my innocence. But you're never taking me and you're never taking me. and you're never taking my family. And then I built resilience on top of that. Through that whole experience and being so young to want to have experienced what you did

is absolutely horrific and should have never happened. But to then find your way through it. In so many instances they don't, right? There are so many stories that don't end in the way that you're sitting here right next to me writing a story about it and having a book and having this whole life now. And I think that's a big piece to all of this, too, is that experience is you built that resilience. But then where does the story end? Like in this particular part of your story, at what point did it finally come out?

At what point did happen? Where is everything now with your family? Oh, my gosh. It's such a crazy story. So I just have to back up the truck still because I think it's important for your listeners or viewers to know. you can have a box and you can shove your secrets in that box and you can think it's gone. And what I did is I became the over-controlling, the over-perfectionist, the over-successful. I have a huge career.

I have three beautiful children. I've built a wonderful life. I still had that box of drama. And what started happening to me, and we'll get to the big doozy part. but what started happening to me is everything that I built to survive as a little girl was literally killing my adult life. Because I said, I am never going to let those brothers see me fail. So what that means is you always have to win.

If you always have to win, what does it do to relationships? Oh, everything. To be in that state, nothing works in the way that you think it does. It looks really pretty and it looks really good from the answer. outside. It's like a pretty present and then you open it up and everything goes everywhere. That's what your whole body was experiencing. Yeah, that's exactly. All chaos inside, outside looked perfect. Yes. Yeah, I had built like two darlings. I had the little darlene, the ashamed darlene shoved in the box, the scared, the fearful. And then on top of that box,

I built the new darlene. But the two of them were never won until 50 years later. And my box blue wide open. So it was a secret I kept for 50 years. I thought I was going to take it to the grave. I just got chills all over my body that you kept that for so long. And not only kept that, you held on to this. That was such a huge thing that nobody should have to hold, but you did it alone to keep that secret to not have shared it, whether publicly or privately is all a thing, but to really struggle with that entire experience truly by yourself. You're the only one who has that entire story. I cannot imagine, one, the weight that was lifted off when it was finally out.

And two, the moment where you finally felt free to share that and be in that space of, and your body busting wide open to say, oh, my gosh, I get to let go of this. And I should correct something. I held the secret tight in that box shut for, 50 years except for a select few. I'm glad you at least had a few and you had a support system because I don't imagine you would have made it as far as you did if you didn't. No. I tell people I could have easily become an alcoholic. The way it was happening in my 20s and high school, a drug addict, I could have been a prostitute because that's what happens when people get

sexually assaulted, the over-sexualization. And honestly, I could have been dead. But I didn't. what the story is about. What did I do that I didn't go there? Because you said so many survivors sadly do go the other way. And so what happened to me is I had PTSD since seven years old, but I didn't know I had it until I was 58. So two years ago, I was diagnosed with PTSD. Wow. How did you get diagnosed? What was the moment in time where you realized, oh, that is what I hot for all of these years. I'll get to that in a second because I don't want to give it off. There's so many things.

I know. There are so many things. But I just finally had to go to a doctor. And there's a reason why I went to the doctor. But so what happened to me is I took that box and I opened the lid to special girlfriends. And I think that is so important. If you're not going to tell your parents and you're not going to tell the world, find a resource. And I had, what had happened to me is I had PTSD moments.

So I'm in a bar. Some guy touches me the wrong way. I'm flipping out. They think they put, the guy put drugs in my drink. No, that was PTSD. That was a reaction from getting raped for so many years. And so I had to tell them. I'm like, I'm so embarrassed.

That wasn't me. This is how I behaved. First time I had consensual sex. I was bawling. Like, I wasn't a virgin. was dirty. I was convinced. That's what survivors do. We convince ourselves that it's our fault and that the shame is ours to carry and it's not. And I was going to ask you because you did go on to get married and you went on to have three kids. I can't imagine those experiences were also

easy because dating, you say the first time you had consensual sex, the first time anything associated with intimacy and creating life, children, bringing children in when you know what you experience as a children, all kinds of emotions, I would imagine. Yeah. Yep. But I wouldn't deal with the emotions because as long as it was in the box, perfect Darlene was going to be okay. And that's not how to deal with life at all.

Trust me, the box wasn't worth it. So then when did the box finally open? Why did the box finally open? Morgan, you won't believe it. So, you know, I'm sexually assaulted. seven. I'm now 57 years old. My mom passes away. Suddenly in 2021, my dad has dementia. So the threat of mom and dad ever knowing are gone. And I don't think it's a coincidence that I get in a really big argument with one of the brothers, the one who had raped me actually, the one who's five

years older than me. And, you know, it starts out with a text and we're arguing and I try to call him, I try to call him, you won't pick up the phone. So I just loses it. And I just say, seven-year-old little darling comes out and she goes, look, I'm sick and tired of the way you're treating me. If you don't stop behaving like this, I can destroy your life if you want me to, and I end the text saying rapist. And he says, go for it. What man says go for it if you're not the rapist? You know what I mean?

Yep. Yeah. Like he's like, try me. Like he's invisible. He's untouchable. Yeah. Oh, the arrogance was unbelievable. Okay.

So gosh, I just have so many follow-ups. Yeah. Why did you never want to tell your parents? What about that relationship stopped you? I know my parents very well. And like I said, there were pillars in the community. Think about the way life was in the 70s and 80s. Nobody talked about their problems, especially not upper middle class.

And I knew it was going to get buried. And how would that have made me feel as a little girl, I come out, I tell the truth, and they just bury it? And sadly, that is what has happened to a lot of, SSTA survivors when they've told they're the ones who have become ostracized from the family. It's so ridiculous and so sad. And I know my mother so well, beautiful soul but also a fragile soul. And I just know that it would have completely destroyed her and therefore it would have

completely destroyed my parents' marriage and it would have completely destroyed the life. the part of the life that I absolutely loved. I didn't want to give that up. I know how weird that sounds, but I don't want to give it up as a little girl. No, and honestly, it's your decision. Right. At the end of the day,

it was your decision of how you wanted to handle it. And I can't imagine being faced with two sides of the coin, right? One side of the coin is this beautiful life. Your parents had nothing to do with it, besides the fact that that's a sibling of yours. And on the other side, you were falling apart on the inside. When you needed help and you needed healing and support and understanding and it's difficult to look at any situation and say I would have done it this way because until you're actually in it, you don't know. Right.

Right. And everybody's different. Everybody handles things differently. Yep. And so no. I don't think it's silly. I think you did what you needed to do to survive and still have a life. That's exactly right.

Because what if it did become public and then I was known in the neighborhood. but as the girl that happened to, because I really believed I was the only one. Until 58 years old, I still thought I was the only one in the world. This had happened to. I believed their lies. Because that's what they're telling you.

Yes. Because not only did they do these horrible things, they weren't great people, I would also imagine. Well, yeah, one brother turned into a drug addict, alcoholic. I'm sure there's a reason why. The other brother actually, when I finally was able to stand up to him, he stopped when I was 12,

then he came back at me when I was 19 and said, we should do what we used to do. And I was like, are you freaking kidding me? No, there's no way. But he actually, he got married twice, had two girls, had two stepson's, he became a halfway decent person. So then the text happens. I'm this angry, the world's on fire text. I call it my volcano explosion. It's when the box just burst wide open. You finally erupted. Yeah, I did. I had had enough. So then two weeks later, I'm the youngest of five. So like I said, my sister, Diane, she was 11 years older than me, but she was at a house at 17 and I was seven when I'm all started. And she's since passed away in 2008. So I have three brothers left. I send them an email saying the facts. Here are the facts.

Here's what happened. This is what, you know, and I have memories of six assaults over five years. And I was hoping through that email, I would get an apology, get validation for what they done to me. Instead, I get handed a lawsuit. From all of them together? No, no, no.

I should quite. Okay. Yeah, not together. No, the middle one. The one who raped me, the one who became the father, and I can't deal with, you know, the truth. He ends up suing me.

January 2021, I have a sheriff to show up on my door. I thought it was over. I thought, fine. I got my thing out. I got my email out. Leave me alone. And I get handed a lawsuit. Pride is like love.

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Just ask your smart speaker to play IHartP Pride Canada. Stream us on your phone or listen now at iHeartRadio.ca. In the moment, it felt like it was going on forever. I didn't think I was going to live. I was terrified. There was no anything inside those eyes. They turned black. It scared the hell out of me.

That was your first murder case? Yes, sir. Fair to say this was the biggest case of your career? Yes, sir. Rape a murder for a child. This is as bad as it gets. I would think so. People wake up.

I'm the one that saw the murder take place by Crevette and DePippo. Anthony DePippo showed no signs of remorse, appearing unfazed after being sentenced to the maximum. I said, I'm not guilty. I'll take it to the grave. Listen to the devil's quarry on the... I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear the devil's quarry ad free with exclusive content, subscribe to Love for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts.

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It is part of it's a surprise because their new star is Javier T. Torito Hernandez. Everyone sees me as a football player, but before anything else, I'm human. Every single day, I'm still learning how to live with problems, mistakes, really. relationships, emotions ever since I was born. And I still have so many questions. Where do we come from? What happens after death? How do you deal with cancellation?

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We are here to connect. Oh Jacharito. And together with I-Hard Radio, we're going to make the ordinary extraordinary. Stay close. It is a carac. Listen to learning to be human

on IHard Radio, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. But I know that this lawsuit has a good story, so I'm not going to say angry for long, so please, because I know everybody's listening just like,

what? I know. Initial reaction is just anger. Just, you get angry at a system. You get angry at a society at a way that everything is built, the way that this could even possibly happen. Yep. You're angry at all of it.

Yes. But thankfully, with Darlene, she did have a better outcome after this. Yeah, I had a better outcome the most. So it takes two years to go through the trial, to go through all the legal. They keep pushing it and pushing it and pushing it. and all my PTSD comes back, all my nightmares come back, I am a living, walking wreck, and I'm still defending the truth.

Because I just felt that it's time for Don to pay for his actions finally. How dare he sue me? How dare he come after me? And so my thought was, you're making me spend thousands of dollars. So I'll negotiate. I'll try to not go to trial. But buddy, you're going to owe me money. And so, and goes on, he refuses.

We go to mediation. I'm like, okay, I've spent 30 grand. I'll settle for 15, just so we don't have to go to the court. You know how arrogant this guy is? This is my brother. He offers me $1 to settle out of court. I was like, see, I understand, buddy. I am done.

I decided I'm just going to keep going. And I'm so glad that I did because even the mediator was like the system. You know what I mean? Are you going to be ashamed to be on that stand? Aren't you going to be scared? And I just turned around after that $1 offer. I said, hell no. I'm not going to be ashamed.

I'm not going to be afraid. And you know what? The truth is on my side. And I'll be so thrilled when a jury of 12 believes me. Oh, my gosh. darling just the amount of strength that you had from a to z literally because it wasn't a to b it wasn't a to even f it was a to z the steps the process of everything that happened in your life and to still be able to sit there in a mediation room and say no i'm going to have the strength

to do this is incredible i hope you can now acknowledge so much of that strength which you probably weren't able to, right? Because you were also still fight or flight. You were still surviving. You were still working through everything that had happened to you. And so you were also probably running on a lot of adrenaline of just, no, I feel so strongly about this. I'm going to fight back, but also scared and all the things. But I hope you acknowledge the strength that takes, despite everything. At the moment, you're right. I didn't realize how strong of a statement that was when I did it. But now that I look back, I'm like, hell yeah, I did it. You know what I mean?

I'm like, how did I do it? I don't know. But yes. And it's incredible. So you obviously go to trial. Yeah. And what happens in trial? So we're now, fast forward, 2024.

It's two trials now. So my lawyer, again, to your point, society, you know, he's like, your story is so crazy. that you might not be believed, that a jury might think it's so, that they can't believe it. So rather than just take the defense, let's do offense as well and counter sue him. Because he'd been out telling everybody, of course, Darlene's a psychopathic liar, she's at a nervous breakdown, blah, blah, blah. So I counter sue him. So it's a five-day trial, his trial first, my six girlfriend.

Friends testify for me. I have one therapist. Shout out, girlfriends. I know. Yeah, that is a shout out to the girlfriends. Okay. Because you've got to have that. They helped you survive.

They helped you live. I know. I'm sure of that. Friendship is so powerful in that way. And it's powerful when it can really surround you with that much support and love. Yes. Okay, so the six girlfriends, yes. Yeah.

I told everybody, they literally saved my life. I don't think I would have been able to make it through without them. is every single one of them that I told, they said, I believe you. And that is powerful in itself, right? Yeah. And to have that, and that was power to have all of you there in that courtroom.

I bet you in that moment, despite everything, too, felt that power of just, we're all bonded together, and this was her experience, and we have her back. You've probably felt supported in a way that you never felt supported. Yeah.

Yeah. And now in a civil trial, at least in North Carolina, because I'm from Charlotte. None of them had to appear in court. So it was all video testimony. Oh my gosh. Because one lived in London, one lived in California, one lived in Michigan.

Think about it. They're all over the country. But it was so cool and so powerful to watch each one of their videos. And then you could feel the tears. But there was tears of love and going, oh, my God, they've got my back. Yeah, very much. It's a testament, too, that you were able to keep those friendships over that course of time, too. Okay, so the six girlfriends and then you see you had a therapist.

therapist also. Right. Because he even had a piece of paper that said in 2005, she talks about her brother's raping her. Like, how is that not evidence? But anyway, it was evidence, but my brother kept going. Long story short, February 5th, 2024, a unanimous jury of 12, a less than an hour, says he's lying and I'm telling the truth and I win both cases. Hands down. Wow. Yeah. Did your body just feel overwhelmed in that moment. It did. And it was hard because the judge had warned us. He's like, if anybody stands up and if anybody shouts, I'm going to hold you in contempt of court. So I'm just sitting there going, I can't believe I won. So I just put my head down in my face and I start crying and my lawyer, he pats my back and my husband behind me. This is my second husband. He was

there the whole time supporting me. But it was an absolutely validating and incredible. incredible feeling. And until that judge read the verdict, I was shaking in my boots. I didn't know. You had no idea what was to come. No, no. And you were hoping, all you were hoping for was the validation that happened. Yes. That just somebody is hearing you, somebody's finally seeing you. And you're going to get that to almost, it doesn't rewrite anything. It doesn't take any of it away. No. It never will. But it does, hopefully in your brain and in your body, start to rewrite that story. story that you've been telling yourself. And that's where the book comes in because I thought justice would be winning the trial.

And it was. It was incredibly validating, but I still had all the bitterness, all the hatred, all the anger, and I was still so uptight that really what ended up happening is justice became letting go of the burden of my secret. and telling the world and writing my book and coming on podcasts like yours. Had you had me on here a year ago? I'd be bawling at the mic. I wouldn't be able to do it.

That's how much I've grown. Yeah. And even still, I imagine it's still not easy. Even when you have these moments and you talk about these things, it's still reliving. It's still saying out loud that it happens, which is probably something that will always be hard.

But you being willing to share and walk the path after having such an experience, And after truly, besides your girlfriends, having 50 years of silence, you just have to feel completely liberated. I really do. Yeah. But it wasn't easy. It was a hard path to get there too. And part of the path was confronting myself.

And I had to end up telling my children. That was one of the most painful moments for me because here I am trying to protect. my children and my children are not all in their 20s and I've got to tell them this dirty little secret that happened to their mother. And I'm thinking, oh, they're going to be so disgusted by me and so mortified. And it was the complete opposite. Yeah. Well, I bet they saw you as they'd always seen you as their mom as it. And that was my heartbreaking for them to learn. Yes. Yeah. So I have twin boys who were 23 at the time. And they're like, oh my God, my, why didn't you tell us sooner? Because now we get you.

We understand why you were so controlling in our lives. And you had to have Life 360 and we were at all times. Everything's adding up for them, all the pieces. Yes. And then my daughter, who was 26 at the time, she comes home from college and she's down to PA school. And she's sitting across from me at the desk. And she's listening and you could just see it on her face.

man, a daughter just has a special knack for knowing what their mom needs, and I'm going to tear up a little bit. But she said to me, mom, I hear you, I believe you, but I think you need to forgive yourself first. And that was like, oh my gosh, you're so right. Like I've blamed myself all these years, and so many survivors, we take on the shame. and the shame is not ours to carry. And that was part of the process of going, okay, I should have been done with the trial, but it didn't heal a damn thing. You know what I mean?

It was validating. And I was like, finally, I hear a court system where the truth wins. Yeah. But then I had to take those next steps. I was going to say the court was just one side to that story. I think that was the side that started you to healing because you, it's hard to heal when your experience isn't validated. It's hard to walk through that when you're constantly being told that this is not true.

It's not correct. You're wrong. You did that. Whatever. To try and walk through healing without that piece to the puzzle is very difficult. Oh my gosh. You're so right. Because that's what I had to confront.

Like, how do you move forward when the one thing you think you need to heal? The apology never arrives. That's when you have to take your. an agency. That's when you have to go, okay, what do I do next? So I had some more PTSD moments, one I'm not proud of at all, but it was a wake-up call for me. And I was like, okay, I'm going to get more help, more therapy. But then I also had to look within. Yes, I forgave myself, but I also had to go, maybe being perfect isn't worth it. Maybe having to be in control.

all the time doesn't make any sense. Maybe every single thing I did to survive, I've got to kick it out. And that's what I ended up having to do it. I had to shed it off. I called it like the black tar within my soul. And the only way to live forward is get rid of the anger, get rid of the bitterness, get rid of it because everything that I was doing for two years is all about him. Now, that I've said, what do I need for me? What do I need to be whole? What do I need to be fulfilled? And who's going to help me on that journey? That's who's in my life now. And that's where I'm going. And I wrote the book for me. But now I'm also writing it to help other people through their journey and not go through the hell that I have. Into your credit, somebody who takes away your autonomy, somebody who doesn't let you feel like you're in control, like you have a choice to go the complete.

the opposite of that is normal to take back what you can take back. You were doing again everything to survive. And I think that's, you know, we always often see survivors in the healed state after they've made it through because to be able to talk about it takes a lot of work to be able to sit here and have discussions like this. It takes a lot. You'd mention like if it was a year ago, maybe not the same. Yeah.

And so we don't really see a lot of that processing with survival. survivors because it's hard to talk about into that's a healing zone that it's easier just to you do the work and you work through it and you go but the experience of healing is such an important piece for anybody who's had this experience because in those rough moments where you're not proud of or you're experiencing things that aren't normal those moments are so real and they're so normal they're human yeah to go through all of that after something so bad and you've been shamed the whole time through it, you don't know what is okay and what isn't anymore. No, no. And I got to tell you, my marriage was on the rocks in 2022 because I would never give in. I lived my trauma as a little

girl. Now I'm going through a trial, living my trauma all over again. And now that I've been able to write it down and let it all go, I'm happily married to my second husband and we've got a great relationship and even my kids are like, mom, you're so different than you used to be. There was an example where my three kids are from my first husband and divorced parents. You'll sometimes get in an argument. And then I was talking to my daughter and I was like, I said something bad about her dad and they shouldn't have. So she hangs up the phone on me. Old darlingly would have picked up, call her back. How dear you? You don't hang up the phone on your mother. That is so rude. Instead, the new Darlene, and she was shocked.

I didn't react. I was responsive now. I counted to 10. I was calm. And all I did was go, okay, how was I a part of this? And I texted her back and said, I'm sorry. I was out of line. And that was such a different person.

You can see how the two characters before, when I had all the trauma within and all the anger within, I would have exploded. Pride is like love. You feel it in your heart. IR. Radio, Canada's number one streaming app for radio and podcasts, including IHart Pride Canada, your favorite hits and must have party bangers, plus personalized and curated playlists, like back in the day pride. Come together, celebrate love. Take pride with you anytime, anywhere. Just ask your smart speaker to play IHart Pride Canada.

Stream us on your phone. Or listen now at iHartRadio.ca. In the moment, it felt like it was going on forever. I didn't think I was going to live. I was terrified. There was no anything inside those eyes. They turned black. It scared the hell out of me.

That was your first murder case? Yes, sir. Fair to say this was the biggest case of your career? Yes, sir. Rape a murder for a child. Just as bad as it gets. I would think so. People wake up.

I'm the one that saw the murder take place by crevette and de pipo. Anthony DePippo showed no signs of remorse, appearing unfazed after being sentenced to the maximum. I said, I'm not guilty. I'll take it to the grief. Listen to the devil's quarry on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear the Devil's Quarry ad free with exclusive content,

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And together with IHard Radio, we're going to make the ordinary, extraordinary, stay close. It is a carac. Wow. Listen to learning to be human or IHara. Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcast. And that's part. You talk about the experience you had

is one incredibly difficult journey on its own. But everything that follows after is also equally as difficult. You're rewriting an entire story, especially as young as it happened with you. You're rewriting 50 years of your entire life, of the way that you shaped and molded in form to protect yourself, to be able to survive,

to do all these things. and then all of the sudden, after this trial is over and you win, you're like, I have a lot of work to do. Yes. And that's equally as hard. Yeah, yeah. And you talked to me even three years ago. I would have never told you, guess what? I'm going to be an author.

I'm going to be on Amazon. I'm going to be on podcast with Morgan. I would have never dreamed. I'm headed into retirement. And now I'm becoming a public motivational speaker. Like, where did that come from? But I really think what happened is little Darlene and adult Darlene are now one. And we now have a voice and we're ready to tell it to the world.

And that stuff is really powerful. You talk about the young version of us. I was talking to a hypnotherapist of all people. There's so many different forms of healing now. And he was talking about if you talk to yourself every time while it's also like you're holding the young version of you's hand, the conversations you start having are very different. And I never thought of it in that way.

But you really do carry the young version of you with you who you hope is okay and hope is healed and all these things. But for most people, that's just not the case. That's not how life works. So it's so cool to hear you say how powerful it is now that you're in this moment of your life and both of you are together in it. Yes. When for 90% of people were separated.

Right. Exactly. And that's what I mean by the box. Like every single one of us has a box. And part of my story is no matter what your secret is, maybe you're a gambler, maybe you're a drinker, maybe you cheated on your husband or your boyfriend, maybe you just stole $100 out of your girlfriend's wall. I don't know.

But what is it that you're hiding? What is it your secret that you're keeping in that box? Because it's not worth keeping it in there. And only until you open up that box, let go up. all your secrets, are you going to be able to live the fulfilling life that you were meant to live? It's the only way to find hope and joy. And I found love in my second marriage because that box was open. And that's what I want to ask you, too. You spoke on being married a second time, being in this new relationship. It probably comes with also its own experiences because you were

married before. You were a different person before. But now on this other side of healed, what's it been like for you to be remarried? Be remarried. Be married. in this relationship has the different version of you? I didn't realize that I didn't know what love was until I was in my second relationship until I was in that marriage. The first husband, I hate to say it this way, because no my kids are going to be watching this, but they know, I settled. I had no self-confidence.

I didn't know what I was doing. I was like, okay, he's the best that I'm going to get. And we were like complete opposites together 24 years, married 21. years, but it just was not a good relationship. So when I got out of that and I'm starting to grow, starting to learn who Darlene is and rewriting the narrative, no, I'm not dirty, no, I'm not naughty, no, you know what I mean? Part of the healing, but it was a long time before I got there because I've been married to

my second husband now for 12 years. but through him and through understanding what I need in a relationship, I'm madly in love and I couldn't be happier. I love this news story for you. That's so beautiful. And it's a testament too because even if you had a different trauma experience, if you had something else, it is often a thing I have seen with the older generation than mine is just often that was a thing.

That was pretty common to settle to marry. That was your purpose in life to marry, to have kids. And regardless of what your life story was before it, you become a mom and that's your purpose. Right, right. And the biological clock was ticking. I had to be married by 30. I had to have kids at the time I was 35, that whole thing. Yeah.

So it's refreshing to hear somebody from the other side of it. Just be able to really see it. I'm a clear point of view. Right. I think that can be, I have a lot of people in the demographic that are around your age that have also struggled with similar things. To be walking the path that you are is how. to be inspiring for them.

And I'm curious with both of your husbands, did they know about this stuff that happened to you? Yeah. I didn't think I was worthy to be married. So when both relationships started getting to the point where, oh, maybe this is going to be, I told them both in confidence. And I just said, I don't think you want to marry me

because of what happened to me. You need to know this. And of course, they both were like, are you crazy? But that's what the human brain does when it has trauma and you're still taking on that shame. Yeah, low self-esteem is often very much associated with that. Yes, yes. It's hard to have high self-esteem on a normal basis, let alone with something that's teaching you that to be shameful.

I think that's why I built the second darling. I have a low self-esteem that the one nobody knew about. And then I had the accomplished business woman, the person with high self-esteem, I have sales, I'm in marketing, I'm doing this, I'm doing that. But it was, I hate to say it, but it was pretty much a facade because I looked perfect on the outside, but I was crumbling on the inside. Very much. Yeah. And I'm curious too on the other side, because if anybody is also a survivor of certain things, you're going to be the one who's able to speak to this. when you talk about relationships or consensual sex or even relationships with siblings,

relationships with friends, just every level. Tell me how you started to rebuild all of those relationships with so many different things in your life that had been tainted by what happened. Because I imagine you don't have a normal relationship with a lot of those things after something like that happens. the siblings goodness sake that's just weird in itself because i had to live the facade that everything was okay i had to live every christmas every thanksgiving every easter every memorial day with these two brothers by my side like nothing had gone wrong and with my first husband we just was so busy we had three kids i'm working full time it was just like he shoved little darlene in the box along with me and we didn't

really deal with it. And then our relationship wasn't very good. But my second husband, oh boy, he was just like, I am going to let this man in my house who did this to my wife. Are you kidding me? And I had 50 years of practice doing that. You know what I mean? And he was, and I'm like, please, my parents can't find out, not in their 90s, not now. You know what I mean? Oh, that's so tough. Yes. I didn't even think about the holiday aspect of just you were still keeping the secret. Yeah. You were still holding on to that. So everything else was going on as normal. Right, right. Everybody had to live as normal. And my children didn't know what about it, but my husband's dead. And so that crushed Tom, who's my second husband. And we got in really big arguments before every holiday because one of the brothers, the one who had raped me, moved down to Charlotte, where I live now.

So we're taking care of our 90-year-old parents. We live an hour apart, but still, it's that whole family dynamic with survivors that it's so incredibly hard because if I tell, that little girl tells, I'm going to destroy my family. And if I don't tell, I'm going to destroy myself, which I almost ended up doing. And everything that you had built. Yes. Gosh, and now is your husband like, I'm so glad this is out. I'm so glad we're moving forward with our lives. Is he just relieved? That's all out in the open now? Yes. He's very, very much so.

She's like, I can't believe you're writing a book. I can't believe you're doing this at 60. And I'm like, yes, my life is always fulfilled. Yeah, but you felt the need out there. You had the story to tell the, and it's powerful. And it sucks that it's powerful. You know what I mean? Like it really does suck that there's people that are going to relate to this. It sucks that there are people that come to you speaking. Not that I don't want you to be completely supportive.

No, no. But I think that's one part of the story, though, Morgan, is people have no idea how common this is. So I know some of your viewers have gone through exactly what I have. I thought I was all alone. And when I wrote the book, I thought it was going to be the first author. I'm like the eighth author to come out with the story. But sibling sexual trauma and abuse is thought to be the most common form of intrafamilial sexual abuse in the world. Yet nobody talks about it.

And that's why I called my book Shattering Silence because I want to break that taboo. And there's so many organizations. So if you have any viewers who are struggling, I have resources on my website. There's like organizations that I didn't know about. Had I known about it as a teenager or as a little girl or even in my 50s? There's five waves, incest aware, SSTA aware. There's Blue Borge in Australia.

There's thriving survivors in the United Kingdom. There's a plethora of resources. So I'm saying don't go it alone like I did. I had girlfriends, but I'm saying find your community in addition to telling somebody. It's so important. And it is. And that's why I'm so glad that you were willing to share your story. I'm so glad that you were willing to write a book and do this in your 60s, as your husband says,

because you have a voice that needs to be heard. You have a story that needs to be heard. And to your point, it is, it's sad in general to experience, like we really really, have attached family dynamics and I was very lucky that a relatively normal family I had a great upbringing with my family but I know how uncommon that is and that doesn't mean we didn't come with our struggles and all the other things oh yeah every family has struggles but not as bad as this yeah no but family dynamics we don't talk about them in a lot of ways just because it's hard much to what the decision that you made to keep that secret for so long is why it's hard yeah

You love your family. You don't want to believe that there's any of this bad. You don't want to set a wrong course for your family. You don't want to expose things because family is supposed to be this connection. And again, back to it's supposed to be a safe place. You're supposed to, those are the people. They're supposed to have your back. And to chatter that experience, it's hard for people to understand.

And I wish this wasn't a conversation that we had to have. I wish it was, and I wish this never happened to you. But I'm thankful that you took it and you did what you did to help other people. Yeah. And I also want to tell parents, like, we talk about stranger danger. We talk about stop, drop, and roll if there's a fire. I want every parent listening to this to start talking to their children. Like, yell, run, and tell.

Don't anybody, no one is allowed to touch you. in the bathing suit zone. I didn't have the sex talk. We just, my parents didn't do that in the 70s. You know what I mean? But a crazy statistic research shows that one in 25 children in a classroom are currently getting sexually assaulted by an older brother or sister. If we don't start talking about it, we can't prevent it.

It's so sad. It's so common. It's five times more likely the sibling is doing this. to a brother, a sister than a parent. But you hear about the parents. Yeah. You don't hear about the sibling. No.

And gosh, I'm so glad you mentioned that to the parents because there is. We do talk about Stranger Danger and we do encourage people to be careful about who their kids are around. But gosh, it's so difficult to put your mind in the frame of mind to say, I also have to make sure I'm careful with them around siblings. Yeah. That's so hard. You don't want to because those are all your kids. No, and you don't want to believe that. And back then you had brothers and sisters.

There were nine, 15, the giant families, and they became the babysitters. And hopefully it's a different world. And I just think the more that we talk about it, the more we can prevent it for sure. And we hope that it is, right? But you just shared that statistic. And that is at least one kid in a classroom, that's a whole lot of kids. Yeah. It's a whole lot of people out there.

And to think that's currently happening. So to your point, it's like with everything that you hope you do all the right things to raise your kid and in all the best ways that you can, right? But one of the biggest tools in your pocket is talking. One of the biggest tools is just having conversations, making sure they know that you can receive that information. And it's tough. That's a tough pill to swallow. You never want to think that way. I'm sure you can speak to that as a parent.

No, no. And even if you don't have a conversation, I wish. somebody would have said, wow, Darlene, you're having a lot of nightmares. What's going on? Or why are you so angry all the time? There are signs that parents and therapists and teachers and counselors need to recognize. I've read sad stories where in schools the child was reprimanded for getting angry rather than the counselor asking, what's happening to you?

I think if we start changing the conversation and start asking children, tell me something. Because I remember desperately, like hanging on to the side of a table wanting to tell so bad, but I just didn't and I couldn't because I didn't feel safe in telling at the time. And if the door was never opened for you, it's hard to open the door. Uh-huh. And especially as a kid, especially with, there's also that power dynamic, right? This is somebody that's older than you. We're supposed to look up to our older individuals in our lives.

Those are the people that we're supposed to look to when things happen. But if you've broken that dynamic, then you're not going to go to those people. So it makes that even harder for that conversation to happen. I had two brothers that I was supposed to trust. So who am I supposed to trust in the world? That's what I was taught. And that's what these little children are being taught. Yeah.

Such a powerful reminder of just something that you. You don't, and again, unless it's happened to you, it's happened in your world and your community. You're not exactly exposed to it. So why would you be asking that question? Why would you assume that could even happen? Right. It happens everywhere. Like I said, it's not, it's in every single family.

It doesn't matter, income, race, nationality. It happens all over the world. And the only way to prevent it is to start breaking that taboo. And we're doing that. That was the whole reason why we brought you on. And I'm so glad you're willing to share. And I don't want to make you keep going down this road because I know talking about this is so hard. So I do want to end, though, on something.

Maybe it's a topic that we didn't address in all of this. Or maybe it's motivation or inspiration for anybody who's listening. Whatever you feel is heavier on your heart to share, I give the floor over to you. And that's how we end the episode. Okay. I would say it's never too late to tell your story. Look at me. I waited 50 years to tell it.

And just remember that the silence was not yours to hold. The shame was not yours to carry. And only by telling it and letting it go, are you able to really understand who you are you are and what you deserve? And you deserve the life that you were meant to be. So let it go. So you can live your life forward. Yes.

Yes. That's a powerful reminder. Darling, I'm completely inspired by you in so many ways. And I know that probably feels really weird after everything that we just talked about. But the strength that you have, the bravery you have, the ability to talk about this is not one that's easily taken from me. So please know that. And I really appreciate you being here. Oh, thank you so much. It was a pleasure talking. And you can check out her book. It's called Shattering Silence. And your website, what did you say your website is? because I know you said you have resources there too.

Yeah. So my website is just Darlene-Dashlikowski.com, because we have the dash in there because it's a really long name. It became number one bestseller in two categories on Amazon on April 2nd. That's so awesome. As it should. Yeah, the word is getting out. Yes.

We're finally doing it. And I'm really proud. And I'm thankful you came on here. So thank you, darling. Oh, thank you for having me. It's been great. It doesn't matter how many interviews I do. The stories we sometimes get on this podcast will never not break my heart.

And I know they're hard things to hear in difficult topics, but I think that awareness is so incredibly important. And the only way for that to happen is by exposure. And having these guests and talking not just about hard stuff, but the really shitty, terrible stuff matters. And it makes an impact for a lot of people out there. Darlene is an incredible woman. I highly suggest checking out her book. It will be linked in the show notes. I will see you all for another episode next Monday.

There was no anything inside those eyes. They turned black. It scared the hell out of me. Evil, wake up. I'm the one that saw the murder take place by Crevette and DePippo. Anthony DePippo showed no signs of remorse, appearing unfazed after being sentenced to the maximum. I said I'm not guilty.

I'll take it to the grave. Listen to the devil's quarry in the Bone Valley Feed on the IHeart Radio app. Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcasts. Joy is essential and it's also elusive, but now there's a new and exciting way to start your journey toward a more joyful existence. Joy 101. It's a new podcast hosted by me, Hoda Kotby. If you're craving inspiration to maximize your joy, tune into these candid, uplifting, and moving on-air chats. Listen to Joy 101 on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Joy 101 with Hoda Kotby is presented by C. All right, listen up. The Jonas Brothers here. Our podcast is called Hey Jonas. We're here, since everyone has a podcast, we want it to as well. And we've had some incredible guests so far. And now our good friend, Nile Horn, is joining the show. How's it going, boys?

Hey, Niall. It's the same thing with Slow Hands. Slow Hands is not about anything else, really, is it? You know, or taste so good can't be about food. You do the same, Nick, with some of the stuff that you've done. You too, Joe. Drop what you're doing and listen to Hey Jonas on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to your.

podcast. Everyone sees me as a football player, but before anything else, I'm human. Every single day, I'm still learning how to live with problems, mistakes, relationships, emotions ever since I was born. This isn't a normal podcast. Everything here is spontaneous, real, and genuine, just honest conversations about what it means to be alive. I'm Javier Tchariot Hernandez and listen to Learning to Be Human on IHart Radio, Apple Podcasts, or whatever you get your podcast. This is an IHeart podcast. Amen.