The Bobby Bones Show - TAKE THIS PERSONALLY - Why We Feel Lonely Even Though We’re Always "Connected"

Episode Date: May 16, 2026

We talk every day... but are we actually communicating? Morgan and Psychotherapist Jason Van Ruler explore why true communication is at the center of every relationship and why so many people feel disconnected despite being more connected online than ever before. From conflict and vulnerability to the loneliness epidemic, self-awareness, and meaningful conversations, Jason shares the five communication styles from his book Discovering Your Communication Type and explains how our childhood experiences shape the way we show up in relationships today. 🎧 Subscribe to the podcast for more episodes. 📲 Follow @jason.vanruler on Instagram  📚 Personality assessment & book details 📲 Follow takethispersonally & webgirlmorgan on Instagram.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. There was no anything inside those eyes. They turned black. It scared the hell out of me. Evil, wake up. I'm the one that saw the murder take place by Krivac and DePippo. Anthony DePippo showed no signs of remorse,

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Nick, but some of the stuff that you've done. You too, Joe. Drop what you're doing and listen to Hey Jonas on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your podcasts. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. And nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where sports slice comes in.

I'm Timbo. And every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headlines. And we're going straight to the source. the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to SportsSlic. On the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slices Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. I'm for a new series where we're talking about talking, but not just any kind, communication

specifically, since that is the basis for all relationships. But do we really know what communication is? Are we doing it in a way that's helping us in our lives and in our relationships? These next two episodes will dive into two different types of personality assessments for a better understanding of how we interact with the world around us. So let's do this. Jason Van Ruler joins me this week. He's a psychotherapist, author, speaker, and just a man of many hats. But he also has a really cool book out right now that's called Discovering Your Communication Type,

which we can all use a lot more communication of. So Jason, thanks for joining me this week. Hey, thanks so much for having me. I'm excited to be here. Yes, so talk to me. Obviously, you have a lot of roles that would probably put you in a position to be having this conversation. But why the book? Why communication?

Why was this something that you were drawn to really start speaking on? I have a terrible business model. So, Morgan, I'm always looking, how do I put myself out of a job? And I thought, boy, if I could teach people how to communicate better, that would slow things down a bit. And I wanted to do it. But in all honesty, the book really came from. seeing so many times, whether I'm meeting with a couple or a team, people say, we just can't communicate and seeing the struggle and stress that comes with that. And so a lot of times what I would say is,

what does it mean we can't communicate? And they'd say, we can't communicate. And I'm like, I think you just use the word to define the word. So what is that? And what I found is just so many of us didn't even know how to describe the problem. And so that kind of led me down. What if we could just make this thing that's seemingly really complicated more simple and actually practical and something we could do. Yeah. And communication is the basis of all relationships, right? If you can't communicate. I heard that somewhere. Yeah, it's important. Yes. Yeah. It's like if both of you are speaking a different language, obviously, it's going to be really difficult to understand the other person and to have a relationship with them, whatever kind of a relationship that may be. So when you talk about

discovering your communication types. Teach me this because this is new to me. I've never heard of this before. And I'm really curious about what it all breaks down to. I love nuance. I like getting into the nitty gritty. Yeah, let's talk about it. If you think about it, we have personality types. We've got a lot of great research. If you think of like the Enneagram and you think of the Myers-Briggs. And so there's all these good personality underpinnings. And then what I think of this communication. type as. It's kind of like your accent. So you're talking to me, I'm from the Midwest. I might sound like a Midwest guy. You talk to someone else from New York. They sound like a New Yorker. So how do we

naturally show up in communication and put differently? It's what is the why we're going for in our conversation? And so what I found is there's really five distinct whys that we use for communication to get to connection. And they're all a little bit different. And they follow this acronym them paths, P-A-T-H-S. Okay, and so Paz, there's five different types. Walk me through those five different types. Yeah, absolutely. And I always like the disclaimer, there's no one better than the others,

except for we all think ours is best, right? So we're like, mine is obviously the best one, but there actually isn't. They're just strengths and opportunities. So the P is the peacemaker, and their strength is they are always reading the room, and they're trying to figure out how can you. I say the thing that means we don't have conflict, that means that we have some harmony and some agreement and that this ends at the outcome I'm looking for. And so that's really wonderful because those people can calm a room pretty quickly and they can communicate and get a group to slow down.

Their opportunity for growth, though, is not everything's peaceful. Sometimes there's difficult conversations and it's not smooth and it's rough and there's friction and so they have to practice that a little. the A is the advocate and advocates are really concerned about communicating about what's fair and right and moral and so I always joke we all had that friend where it's like

is someone going to say something it's that friend that friend is like I'm going to say something every single time and so that's awesome and they maybe don't have to say it every time right sometimes someone else can say it

or it doesn't need to be said so their opportunity is time and place the T is the thing And the thinker is an internal processor who communicates less frequently than others. And when they do communicate, it's because they want to get it right and accurate and precise. And so they're the people where if we're talking and they cite research, but they realize later it was wrong or the year was wrong, they're losing sleep over that. Like I said 25%. It was 22%. Oh, how could I have done that? So they're really focused on that part.

their opportunity for growth is sometimes letting people into their process and talking about feelings a little bit more so people know that's what's going on. The Harbor is my type and we're all about the feelings, right? We just want to talk about our feelings, your feelings, feelings, feelings, all the time. And that's great. As a therapist, it's pretty good. My opportunity for growth or a harbor's opportunity is sometimes a conversation doesn't need that. And so I joke and I say, I'm a bad dinner party guest because, my buddy will come up and be like, what did you just say to them? And I'm like, why? And they're like,

I think they were crying as they walked away. And I'm like, oh, we're just talking about their mother and how they felt about childhood. And they're like, what are you doing, Jason? What can you just talk about sports or something? And so sometimes it's not that helpful, right? So our opportunity is, doesn't always need to be that way. Sometimes we need to be a little more clear. And then the spark is kind of your energetic, charismatic person who comes in the room, they want to have fun. They want to have fun. They want to have a lot of momentum, which is great. Their opportunity is slowing down a little bit and realizing that sometimes it's not high energy or fun, but you still have to have the conversation.

Okay, so there's a few things I noticed in here. One being that you use the word opportunity for growth, which I like, instead of it being our flaws and our things. It's our opportunity for growth, yes. Yes. I like the wording there. We're really, we're aiming for that. And then the other thing that I'm interesting, probably from my perspective, is what if there's pieces of me that are each of those in different scenarios?

So is that a possibility that you have kind of competing communication types or is it that you lean into one and maybe you respond in one if you're in a particular situation? You get it. Yeah, you get it. So a lot of where this comes from is the origin that I found with a lot of people is childhood. So we kind of looked at our family and looked at her situation and said, and this was a conscious, but we said, what do we need? What does someone need to talk about? And so then we adopt this style. So for me, I grew up in the Midwest, pretty stoic people, religious people. We're not talking about feelings, right? There was not a lot of obvious deal about that. And so I thought, hey, our family needs a therapist. I think I will be the guy. And so that is my primary. But what I would tell you is, if we're effective, speakers, we learn how to do all of them. But we typically come back to one, especially under pressure. Okay. I was wondering, because I feel like, especially as ideally we evolve as adults, and we start to learn to understand people better. That's the goal. So I could see that people would have each of these. So it seems that your communication type, the one that you're most heavily is the one that maybe is the most comfortable for you, the one that you kind of fall back to whenever it gets

a little tough or something and you kind of go back into this one position. Am I reading that correctly? Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, that's one in choice if we have a choice. Okay. So in knowing these things, understanding our communication is one piece to that puzzle, understanding why we do the things that we do, but why is it helpful to understand this for our relationships? Why does it matter what our communication type is? We're breaking this down to the bare minimum if somebody's like, well, I don't care, then sure, I'm a thinker. Why does that matter? Yeah, I think we all are doing the assessment of stuff. It's a personal development, but I think what's really underneath all of it is connection. And so many times I see people in a relationship,

and I'm married, and I've done this myself. So I'm a harbor. I'm married to a thinker. And so for a long time, I would communicate about what's natural to me and she would communicate about what's natural to her, and it would be easy to make up a story about why she did that. And if I'm being really honest, it wasn't a positive story, right? It wasn't like, well, she's talking about those things because she loves me so much and we're best friends. It was like she's saying that because I'm not saying it right or we're in conflict. And I had this really cool moment where I was writing the book and I was like, this is awesome, Jason. You should do this.

This is so good, Jason. You should try this. And I have. I have. And it does change everything because instead of seeing our partner or people around us is the villain in the story, we see them as someone who's just trying to connect with us differently. And when we can do that, I think we give grace and compassion where we wouldn't have otherwise. Oh, and that's so tough, right? Because having grace and compassion, while we like to think that's really easy to just, yeah, empathy, compassion.

We care about the people in our lives. but genuinely having it without an ulterior motive is actually really difficult for human beings. Just because nature-wise, we like to look out for ourselves. That's what our natural instinct is. I got to look out for me and do what's best for me. So to peel back that layer and have that layer of vulnerability stripped away, I would imagine does come with also a lot of unlearning of things that we've been taught previously. Yeah, and being open to something new.

I think that's the challenge too is you have to be willing to see it differently. And so if you have that willingness, the good news is things can always change for the better. If you don't have willingness, you're going to be stuck. So you mentioned it really helped in benefiting your marriage and your guys' relationship. So did it help too as you go out from that, right? That's your most interpersonal one. Then you start looking at friendships and you look at family and stuff like that. did it deeply impact you when you started to understand that about yourself and as you started

to understand other people better too? Yeah, it helped me know myself better, which is self-awareness is not a common thing. So it helped me to know myself a little bit better in how I show up and how it lands. But then clinically, I get to work with people one-on-one and couples and teams started using this and saw huge changes in people's relationships just because they better understood themselves and others. And so as that happened and we started to do some research and work the assessment out and that sort of thing, it was like, this is something that's actually moving the needle in people's relationships. And so that's been a really fun thing to see.

Well, and I would imagine that would be the case because with any personality assessment that I've ever done in my life, you'd think about the one way back when I was in leadership class, we did the Myers-Briggs. It was one of the first things we learned about ourselves because all about leadership is communication. How do you communicate? You have to understand who you are to know how to communicate. And then came the eneogram. And I knew all about the aneogram. And now this is another one that I think the coolest thing that I've experienced from any personality assessment is that it peels back another layer of understanding who I am. You just mentioned that there. And that's why I think stuff like this is so important because as much as we think it's really easy to know ourselves, right?

We all feel like I know who I am. I know what I feel and what I believe. It's actually really hard to go from the inside out knowing everything about who you are and how you respond because we don't want to believe the hard parts about ourselves. We don't want to believe that there's something that I could be doing better. We want to believe that we're doing everything correct, right? So I imagine you'd be seeing a lot of that, too, just the experiences with people where they're getting to peel back layers of who they are. Yeah. And I relate to that. All of us, we want to be told we're doing it great.

And it's just perfect and couldn't be better. But what's true is that our places where we're usually the most stuck are often the places we're least aware of ourselves. And I don't think anyone assessment is everything. I don't think you have to do a hundred of them. but I do think, like you said, along the way, as you do them, you know yourself better. And knowing yourself better allows you to know other people better and know how it lands. And I think that's so important whether you're a leader or a speaker or you're married or you have kiddos. Like in any relationship, that's a vital part of it.

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Just ask your smart speaker to play IHart Pride Canada. Stream us on your phone or listen now at iHeartRadio.ca. In the moment, it felt like it was going on forever. I didn't think I was going to live. I was terrified. There was no anything inside those eyes. They turned black. It scared the hell out of me.

That was your first murder case? Yes, sir. Fair to say this was the biggest case of your career? Yes, sir. Rape and murder for a child. Just as bad as it gets. I would think so. People wake up.

I'm the one that saw the murder take place by Crevette and DePippo. Anthony DePippo showed no signs of remorse, appearing unfazed after being sentenced to the maximum. I said I'm not guilty. I'll take it to the grave. Listen to The Devil's Quarry on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear The Devil's Quarry ad free with exclusive content, subscribe to Love for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. Hey, I'm Hoda Kotby, host of the podcast, Joy 101 with Hoda Kotby.

Together, we're going to have meaningful conversations with the world's most fascinating people, like when actress Olivia Munn shared how she overcame fierce health challenges. gone through breast cancer and then helped my mother through breast cancer. And that was more difficult. There's a lot of people who understand postpartner depression. I was not prepared for postpartum anxiety. Listen to Joy 101 with Hoda Kotby on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, listen up. The Jonas Brothers here. Our podcast is called, Hey Jonas. We're here, since everyone has a podcast, we wanted to as well. And we've had some incredible guests so far. And now our good friend, Nile Horn is joining the show.

How's it going, boys? Hey, Niall. It was the same thing with Slow Hands. Slow Hands is not about anything else really is it. You know, or taste so good can't be about food. You do the same, Nick, with some of the stuff that you've done. You too, Joe. Drop what you're doing and listen to Hey Jonas on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your podcasts. And why do you think it is that I imagine you've experienced this as you've tried to teach and really practice what you teach too? Why is it so hard for us to make that adjustment? Say you're just, you work with somebody for a while, And you're definitely a thinker and this is how you respond in X, Y, Z scenarios. But why do you feel like it, even knowing that people will still say, no, that couldn't possibly be me?

I think we like it our way. We like this idea that we wouldn't have to do any more than we're doing. And I think that's just hard. Is change and growth are uncomfortable? There's not really a way around that. And so I think sometimes when we have that conversation, people will say, oh, Jason, I don't want to do more. I don't want to have to learn about this. And so it's like, you don't have to.

You get to if you want. And it costs you both ways, right? So there's the cost of doing it and the discomfort, and there's a cost of regret of not doing it. But I think a lot of times we just want to come back to being in the middle. We want to come back to a resting state where we don't have to do anything. But what's true, and part of the reason for the book is we all know people that we can know better. And one of the worst things to have happen is if you lose some of the reason.

somebody and you go, I wish I knew them better than I knew them. That's a terrible feeling. And so one of the things I wanted with the book is to know people better while you know them because I think that's important. Yeah. And that, gosh, that makes me want to go a few different directions. One being a lot of what we're seeing right now where we're at as a society is a lot of breaking of relationships, right? A lot of people are, they're separating from certain relationships, whether it be for the smallest things or the biggest things, we're just seeing a lot of separation more than we're seeing a lot of connection. And is learning your communication type and understanding yourself better,

put you in a better position for that not to be your experience? I'm assuming you're having people that come, and that's part of the things that they're trying to work through. Yeah, I think it helps because we can see the other person's perspective. So for me, if I'm talking about feelings and you're a think, or I'm really happy and comfortable with that. You're not. And so what I can start to see is my impact on you. And I love how you said it. I think we're just becoming a society that's really hyper-focused on everyone else's impact on us, but we're less focused on our impact on others.

And so my hope was this helps us see that a little bit, not to make us feel bad or guilty or shame, but just to see that, again, that opportunity for growth that we have when we better understand. this is what it's like for them to experience you. It's funny. You just said it right there. We really don't like to recognize our role that we play in things. And this is like shining a bright light on the role that we play in every situation. It's true.

And I even see it, right? When I did the aneogram, I learned that I was a 50-50 split. I had two separate things in there and my personality type, which are contradictory. And I always joked. I was like, well, I got two personalities. depends on the day, which one you're going to get. And it's very true. I've definitely seen it play out in my life a lot, but one of those being a challenger. And I really, I love to pull the best out of people. And I am also guilty of doing that when I shouldn't be. And so I have seen myself in conversations

act as the challenger and be like, let's do it this way or try this or do this. And I also, it's an out-of-body experience. I actively watch. Watch myself backpedal where I'm like, oh, pull that back, pull that back. Don't do that. They don't need that right now. Let's come back. And I verbally will be like, I'm so sorry. I don't think you needed that right now. And I just please ignore, rewind, erase. Listen to you. Wow. It's hard to do though. Because when you are so habitually a version of yourself and you feel that's the best part of you, right? You feel like that's what you have to offer the world. So to have a belief. that something about that is bad makes it really difficult, especially when you're in it. You're actively experiencing it. You're like, we're going to do the thing. I am challenging you right now. You're going to change your life.

This is your moment. But what you said is so good is like not every situation calls for that. And having the awareness to say, and I love how you're like, I step back. I just go, hey, that's not what that called for. And I catch myself. And that's kind of what I'm going for. is some situations you'll shine. You'll go, hey, is there a challenger? Is there an eight here? And it'll be like, we got one. This is awesome. And then other times it's the wisdom of knowing when not to do the thing that comes easy. And much to what you're talking about in these communication types, each one has a purpose. Each one has a huge strength that we all need. But we all need them in various times. And so to understand how and when that works, is also a skill that's an active skill that we have to learn that I don't really think a lot of us are taught in school.

I got really lucky I did leadership classes, but we're not taught that. Yeah, I love that you did it. Most of us, though, it's like that's an afterthought or it's an adult thing, but we don't, this is not usually part of core curriculum. No, which is wild because, again, we go back to we think about communication and you're like, you communicate every day, you're talking. This is stuff that you should just learn. But it's actually not. Like having self-awareness, having an understanding of humans and their relationships and the interpersonal relationships with people,

it's actually not that easy. We love to make it seem like it's easy, but it's not. No, it is. And I think it's not always obvious what we're missing. I think that's the other part too, is sometimes I talk to people and they go, I'm good enough. I'm good enough at communication, I think. And so I go, okay, I'm glad you think.

That's awesome. Go to the three to five people closest to you and just ask them if they feel comfortable telling you something challenging or something that's meaningful to them. And so I'll send them out and they'll usually do this and they'll come back and they'll just kind of shake their head. And I'll say, what'd you learn? What'd you find out? And a lot of times it's people feel less open to us than we feel to them. And so they'll say, yeah, I don't know if I would tell you something challenging or I don't know if I could tell you something hard. And so that's the thing is like there's our version and there's their version. version and we kind of have to take into account their version. Oh, yeah. That's so tough. We love our versions. My version is best. I love my version. I'm a big fan of my version. I'm actually president of the fan club. It's a great version. Yes, but there are others. Yes. There is. And it's so important that we can take a step back and acknowledge that because it's also especially difficult when you are working with people to understand this and become what they need to become, right, to understand their communication type, to communicate effectively, to communicate in a way that's helping both parties, whoever's involved. I don't think that happens overnight, but correct me if I'm wrong.

You could do it overnight. Yeah. I think if you work hard enough, sure. No. No. What's true is it's practice. And that's the thing and that's not to put down where we live or how we live, but it's just we're all out of practice. little bit. When I sit down and I talk to somebody and they say, I want to be better at communication

and having difficult conversations or impactful conversations, I'll say, when's the last time you had one? And a lot of times the answer is like, I'm not sure. I'm not sure. Or it's been years. And so I think now with a lot of technology stuff, we're just less incentivized or inclined to do this. And so a lot of us, we have the need, we have the desire. We're just out of practice. Yeah, we're out of practice in a lot of waste, not just even in our general relationships in our life, but there's people that have communities that they don't communicate with. There's neighbors that people have that they don't know. There's a mass, just almost like exodus of no longer communicating, which is really wild, but talk to me about the damage that does to a human, because as a psychotherapist, I imagine you have

seen the impacts of what that looks like to us if we aren't having meaningful connections. Yeah, there's definitely the connection between that and the loneliness epidemic. It's why are we lonely? A lot of us aren't having the conversations we need to have. And sometimes we mistakenly think that the conversations all have to be negative or hard or challenging, but we're not even having the good conversations. A question I like to ask people is, when's the last time you told somebody something you're really proud of or that you celebrate it?

And even that's like, why haven't really told anybody that? And so I think the less we communicate, the more isolated we are. and the more lonely we are. And we end up doing the thing where we're surrounded and connected via technology, but we're not really feeling that. And so I think talking can be the answer. Having conversations can be the answer to a lot of the problems we're experiencing. Would you suggest, because I imagine there's also a lot of people out there,

because we're out of practice and we haven't been doing our best at communicating and being connected, that it's better to try and fail, at your communication than to not try at all. Yeah, yeah. The stakes are low when we practice with other people on day-to-day stuff. So what I tell people is if you want to be better at the difficult stuff, do the day-to-day stuff and work from there. I think what a lot of people do is you're like, I'm on a practice, that's fine. There's this one big thing.

There's an elephant in the room. I haven't said anything. And I'm going to pick one person and I'm going to go tell them the most vulnerable thing ever. And I'm going to cross my fingers, they handle it well. And so I'm usually like, no, no, no, stop. stop that. Let's ease into it a little bit because it's the equivalent of saying, I don't really know how to swim. So I'll just jump in the deep end and hope to figure it out. And it's like, well, maybe you will, but probably you won't. And so I think for a lot of people, what I try to

challenge him is like, hey, just start small. Just start small. Work your way in. And then if a person's safe and they're responsive, keep going and get to the place you need to get to, but don't start in the deep end and work your way out. I'd love to know from your perspective, because as you're mentioning this and you had said something about talking to people about your celebratory and the things that are good in your life. Is there any truth to understanding a relationship when you feel able to have only good conversations with somebody versus never having bad ones? Because I do imagine that isn't the most healthy relationship or even vice versa, right? You can only have bad ones but never have good ones. Those types of communication styles where you might have a relationship in your life,

that you're leaning into one or the other, I would imagine that's not the best thing. Yeah, we're always striving for balance as humans. We just, we never nail it, right? We're always like, I'll do it all this way or all that way, but never in the middle. And so I often say the opposite of one extreme is another. And we don't want another extreme. We want to be in the middle. And so I think there's room for celebration. And there's also room for I'm struggling. I think too much of either one of those or if it's lopsided, and there's seasons of life where it might be, but on average, if it's all negative, that's not a lot of fun. Not a lot of people want to talk to that person over and over again.

But it's also if it's all positive, I'm amazing. I did this. Like that gets kind of old too. So I think to really know somebody is to see both and to be able to have both of those conversations. Happy Pride Month, Toronto. Pride is an opportunity for you to create your own space, to celebrate your existence. Iheart Radio is proud to be an official sponsor of Pride, Toronto. Toronto Festival and we won't stop.

Celebrate pride. Turn up the love and listen to Iheart Pride Canada. Your 24-7 radio stream and the only playlist you need for your Toronto Pride celebrations. Pride is so great because it gives a whole bunch of people this visibility that they've never had before. We have a ton to celebrate Toronto. Happy Pride. Iheart Radio. In the moment, it felt like it was going on forever.

I didn't think I was going to live. I was terrified. There was no... Anything inside those eyes. They turned black. It scared the hell out of me. That was your first murder case? Yes, sir.

Fear to say this was the biggest case of your career? Yes, sir. Rape a murder for a child. Just as bad as it gets. I would think so. Evil, wake up. I'm the one that saw the murder take place by Krivac and DePippo. Anthony DePippo showed no signs of remorse,

appearing unfazed after being sentenced to the maximum. I said I'm not guilty. it to the grief. Listen to the devil's quarry on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear The Devil's Quarry ad free with exclusive content, subscribe to Laugh for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. Hey, I'm Hoda Kotby, host of the podcast, Joy 101 with Hoda Kotby. Together, we're going to have meaningful conversations with the world's most fascinating people, like when actress Olivia Munn shared how she overcame fierce,

health challenges. I've gone through breast cancer and then helped my mother through breast cancer, and that was more difficult. There's a lot of people who understand postpartner depression. I was not prepared for postpartum anxiety. Listen to Joy 101 with Hoda Kotby on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, listen up. The Jonas Brothers here. Our podcast is called, Hey Jonas. We've here since everyone has a podcast, we want it to as well. And we've had some incredible guests so far. And now our good friend, Nile Horn is joining the show. How's it going, boys? Hey, Nile. It was the same thing with slow hands. lands is not about anything else really, is it?

You know, or taste so good can be about food. You do the same, Nick, with some of the stuff that you've done. You too, Joe. Drop what you're doing and listen to Hey Jonas on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your podcasts. And that's what I really want to encourage people because I do think because of the technology that we are given every day, it's really easy to only see the good in a lot of people's life, especially if you're really. not openly having a conversation with them off of the internet away from the things out there. And so we often just love to see the rainbows and unicorns and having tough conversations. Often people run away from them because they're afraid of them. So I just want to encourage people of

the benefits of utilizing both and being willing to be vulnerable and expose yourself a little bit to create deeper and meaningful relationships, because I also think that's a piece to this communication style is like, you could have the best communication in the world. You could understand your type. You know what you're doing. But if you're also not receiving as well in allowing yourself this open environment, I don't know that the communication style is going to help you a whole lot. And totally correct me if I'm wrong there. No, you're not wrong at all. That is such a good word because if we don't receive other peoples and we don't listen and we don't create space, we're not really interacting. And so sometimes some of us kind of hide behind education.

We know all the things. We can recite all the words. We can do. That's great. I don't know if that's relational. And so it's how do we do that in a way that allows us to be seen. And I think a lot of times what we say is, well, if I told somebody that they wouldn't love me or if I told somebody that they'd see me differently. But you can take it for me. I get to do all these treats and workshops. And so we'll ask a question and someone will stand up and they'll raise their hand and they'll say a true thing. And so what that person believes when they're the first person to stand up is, okay, I just said the true thing that wrecked it for me. Right. Now everyone doesn't see me. But what always happens is 10 other hands go up right after that hand because

they gave permission to everybody else to say the thing. And so when I'm working with somebody, what I usually say is yeah, everybody feels like if they let somebody in, that's going to happen But what's more true is we're empowering other people to do the same. And most people are just waiting for someone to do that. Very much. Again, it goes back to that. We're desperate for that connection to people. And the second that someone's brave enough to say, hey, this is who I am and where I stand at the current moment,

it's going to open up for somebody else who's in that same feeling environment to say, hey, me too. And now all of a sudden you've created a person that you can relate to. And it's interesting that we're so desperate to have that. But it's the thing that we're most afraid of doing. Yeah. It's scary, but I think it's the truth, right? It's we're hungry for the truth. And that can actually go either way.

I talked to people that this is great leadership retreat I went to. And someone said, hey, what is everyone struggling with? Be honest. And there was this person. And I'll never forget this. But they said, you know what? Just being like straight with you, it's been like a great month. I've actually just had a really good month.

There was like a struggle before that and now it's good. And so like I could make up something. But I'm actually like just doing pretty well right now. And I thought, man, it's like we're not allowed to say the bad stuff, but we also don't feel allowed sometimes to just say, I'm actually doing okay. Things are pretty good. Like I hear a lack of both sides of that. Oh gosh.

That's so true. Because if you, again, we go back to like we're in judgment zone, right? We are everything we do. how we live our lives is broadcasted in some way, shape, or form. And so everything we do feels judged, whether it be celebratory, whether it be a failure. So either or, it doesn't matter which side you're on, there's always going to be somebody who doesn't like what you're doing or doesn't like how you're feeling. Now, that's the hard part, isn't it? Yeah, there is. There is. And we have to accept it. It's something I struggle with the most. While I can have this facade of wanting the best for other people,

I'm also my own worst critic. It's where my opportunity for growth is. That's what we call it. I love how you said that. That's brilliant. Yes. Your opportunity for growth. Yes. My opportunity for growth is I am my own worst critic. I could do everything correct. I could have the perfect day in the world and I could come home and find the five things that didn't go perfectly correct. And it is my biggest nightmare, right? It's the biggest thing that I struggle with on a daily basis. And so I see that. I see a lot of people experience the same thing that I'm experiencing. And I could say, just try this. And if you do this, you'll be fine and you'll feel a lot better. As I'm sitting at home being like, that didn't go 100% correct. And that also took a different type. I'm sitting there doing the things that I'm saying on my front side, hey, it's okay. You're doing great. Back, back end, you're like, ah, it's not great at all. No, it's not going well. This is not how it should be.

I think we give others the gift we need most, right? So we show up and you're like, I'm going to support and encourage you and tell you it's okay. And it's like, well, what message do you need to hear? And you're like, I'm okay. And I can do it. And so it's, I think that's the thing where if we can let people in, we find out we're more alike than different.

And we can actually help heal some of that stuff. But I'm the same way. I'm problem oriented, which makes me great. at my job, bad as a person. So I'm like, I can help you solve something, but if you sit me in a room and you're like, everything's great, just enjoy it. I'm like, oh, we can't do that. No, there has got to be an issue. We just haven't found it yet. There's a problem. We'll find it. Don't worry. I'll take care of it. Got to be a problem. Yes. And it's really funny. When you do allow somebody in, my fiancee does really good at looking at me and just saying, would you say that to somebody else? Why are you saying that?

about you. And I'm like, it's a really solid point and you're right, but I still feel the way than I do. But I have different rules. It's a great point, but I have different rules. So yes, good point though, but it's different for me. Yes. Yes. But to your point, allowing that space for somebody to come in and be a safe space for you and saying, hey, just giving you a little bit more perspective here. So you can slowly start to chip away at those things that are difficult and those things that are hard as much as we really love to believe, like I said at the very beginning of all of this, that we can take care of ourselves, we can do it all. We are team me, go me. We can't. We're humans and humans desire communication and connection.

And that is the basis of what we need to survive. Yeah. Yeah. And you said it so well, but that's the truth. And we can kind of try to make it into something different, but we're always going to come back to that is we're better together. And so if we can learn to be together, that's just going to be a win for everybody involved. And to your point, I go back to the story you shared from your, it was the leadership summit that you were at. Yeah.

Okay. Where the person had gone from Atlantic, I've had a really good month. So when people have those really good months, I think we make sure that they celebrate the fact that they've had a really good month. because that's hard to do and also be there when people aren't. I think that's the other piece to this is not just learning ourselves, but learning how other people can be supported in a way that kind of molds all of this together. And that was the thing that I took away from that moment that you shared. Yeah, it's just learning to sit with people and not having to make it into something else.

I think we do that so often where we're sort of like, well, it's this. But if you just make it this, that'd be better. And I think learning just to go, I'm okay with how it is. It doesn't have to be any different than how it is. That is a lost art. And I want to know, too, from your perspective, being a psychotherapist, I've always been curious of this. You've been super vulnerable with me and sharing. You're like, I'm going to have my job in this way, but this part's hard.

I do imagine that you struggle with some of that same parts that we're dealing with, right? Because you're still human. I bring on experts and they're amazing and they know what they're talking about and they're so good at it. but also at the end of the day, you're still a human. You're still learning the same things we are. You just might have a little extra knowledge in some different areas that we also need. So is that true? It's true. I have it all figured out by now, Morgan. So yes, I have figured it all out. Not everyone has. No. I think actually that's the thing that makes people best at helping people is the not having it figured out part. I think you need to be a couple steps ahead in a couple of areas you help people with. But I think if you lose the ability to say I don't have it all. figured out, you're a lot less helpful because how do you relate to that person? It's kind of like, well, okay, so you don't ever struggle? I guess I'm not going to tell you my struggle. And I think sometimes with social media, we can easily fall into that belief because we're like, well, you're this person. And if you're that person, then how would you ever understand?

And I think sometimes those people are the loneliest, the people who are really good at constructing a life that looks perfect because it creates this situation where people don't assume you'd have a problem. And so it's even harder to say you have a problem because you work so hard to make it look like you don't. Yeah, I'm creating that perfect reality. And sometimes honestly, I've noticed, and maybe this is something you've seen too, but often when we are so caught up with trying to create and navigate and map this kind of perfect visual of what our lives look like, whether it be on social media or just a frontal to other people that you interact with daily, we end up breaking more internally when the outside is more perfect because we're not allowing that to come out.

Yeah, I like the way you said that. It's true. It costs us something. And I don't know, we know the cost. Other people don't see it. Very much so. And Jason, I think I could see here and talk about, I love communication. It's like, I studied broadcast journalism. This is my area of expertise. I love it. I do. And you could. You wrote a whole book on it for a reason. I wrote a whole book on it. Yes, I could go for hours, trust me. But I do want to know. This is kind of how I end my podcast and see what's heavy on your heart or whatever you kind of want to end us on.

I give the floor over to you. It could be motivational, inspirational. It could be something that we just didn't mention yet that you feel like is really important to share, kind of whatever you want to do. I give it over to you. Oh, man, I've got a couple hours of content, so I'll just start. No, I'm just kidding you. I'm just kidding you. Here's what I always like to end with.

If you're hearing this and you're thinking to yourself, yeah, but you don't understand, Jason. Or yeah, but that's great for you guys, but that's not how it is for me. I just always like to encourage people because, and you did a great job, I haven't always been this guy. I have always dressed like a therapist. I've always thought like a therapist, but I've not always been a therapist. And I haven't always been a great communicator. And so what I would just tell you is there's a lot of hope if you're willing to do it different. And that's what I always say.

Because I think where I see people struggle the most is they just feel like, they're stuck and there's no version that's different than that. And so if you're listening today and you're like, yeah, but I'm just stuck. I just say like, just take the first step. Just take one little step into that pool and you don't have to jump in the deep end, but just learn a little bit. And what's on the other side of that is undoubtedly better than where you're at. So just like to encourage people. No, that's such a good point. And you mentioned the being stuck and I think getting unstuck in various different ways. We've talked about it in a lot of different topics through this podcast, but just being stuck in what we feel is the hardest, darkest moments of our lives is some of the

hardest to crawl out of, right? You mentioned taking that first step and doing that is hard and uncomfortable and uneasy, but it's also, we talk about the grass is always greener on the other side. That is a situation where the grass is literally greener if you could take one step. I love that. You're right. There are a few like that, but that is literally true there. It is great. Yeah, I was going to say, does it ever actually happen? That analogy is more saying. You just made it. I'm remembering today. You just made it work. I like it. It is in fact greener. You just have to do the thing. Yes, yes. And I think a lot of people need this. I think a lot of people want to deepen their connections. I think a lot of people don't want to be stuck. And if you're one of those people and you're just a little curious, then read Jason's book. I think it's a great starting place to understand yourself better. It feels back some layers. There's nobody else has to do anything. Just you. You just get to sit and read a book and learn some

stuff, which I think is really awesome. So Jason, thanks for writing the book. Thanks for being here. It was really good to talk to you. Oh, thank you so much. I really enjoyed this. I appreciate it. Jason's book, Discovering Your Communication Type is linked in the show notes if you'd like to do some personal exploration. Hopefully this helps you on your own path of communication because I don't know about you guys, but this loneliness epidemic has got to end. It's time. I'm so happy that you're here. Get subscribed so you don't miss the next episode in the series dropping next week. Or you can watch these episodes on YouTube at Webgirl Morgan or follow along on Instagram at Take This Personally. I love you guys.

Bye. There was no anything inside those eyes. They turned black. It scared the hell out of me. Evil, wake up. I'm the one that saw the murder take place by Crevette and DePippo. Anthony DePippo showed no signs of remorse, appearing unfazed after being sentenced to the maximum. I said I'm not guilty.

I'll take it to the givoc. grief. Listen to the devil's quarry in the Bone Valley feed on the Iheart radio app. Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcasts. Joy is essential and it's also elusive, but now there's a new and exciting way to start your journey toward a more joyful existence. Joy 101. It's a new podcast hosted by me, How to Coppe.

If you're craving inspiration to maximize your joy, tune into these candid, uplifting, and moving on-air chats. Open your free IHeart Radio app. Search Joy 101 and listen now. Joy 101 with Hoda Kotfi is presented by CBS. All right, listen up. The Jonas Brothers here. Our podcast is called, Hey Jonas.

Because since everyone has a podcast, we want it to as well. And we've had some incredible guests so far. And now our good friend, Nile Horn, is joining the show. How's it going, boys? Hey, Niall. It's the same thing with Slow Hands. Slow Hands is not about anything else, really, is it? You know, or taste so good can be about food.

do the same, Nick, with some of the stuff that you've done. You too, Joe. Drop what you're doing and listen to Hey Jonas on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your podcasts. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments

in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. and we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to SportsSlice on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

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