The Bobby Bones Show - Takin A Walk in Brookline Mass. with Author of Backstage and Beyond Jim Sullivan-Music History

Episode Date: August 1, 2023

Jim is a legendary Boston-based music critic who writes about his “45 years of Classic Rock Chats and Rants” in his new book.He has an amazing legacy of stories from his interviews with folks like Lou Reed, David Bowie, Pete Townshend, Peter Gabriel, and many more. *****Thank you so much for listening to the TAKIN’ A WALK PODCAST SHOW hosted by Buzz Knight!  Listen to more honest conversations with a compelling mix of guests ranging from musicians, authors, and insiders with their own stories. Get inspired, get motivated, and gain insights from honest conversations every week that can help you with your own journey. Follow us on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram, and be part of this blessed family.Website: https://takinawalk.com/Twitter: https://twitter.com/thebuzzknightLinkedIn: http://linkedin.com/in/buzzknightLinkfire: https://lnk.to/takinawalk Please consider subscribing, leaving a review, and sharing it with your friends and family!Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoicesSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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wherever you get your podcast. To the Taking a Walk podcast, an audio storytelling diary about music, hosted by Buzz Night. If you like Taking a Walk, please spread the word to your friends and follow us at Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Eyeheart,

or wherever you get your podcasts. On this episode, Buzz is joined by longtime Boston music critic Jim Sullivan. He's the author of the new book, Backstage and Beyond, 45 years of classic rock, chats and rants. You'll hear great stories of music history.

Next with Buzz Knight and Jim Sullivan on Taking a Walk. Jim Sullivan, it's so great to have you on Taking a Walk in person. It's just so good to see you, too, Buzz, in this lovely bucolic setting of the Chestnut Hill Reservoir. I know, I love it. A nice day here, and we're here to celebrate backstage and beyond 45 years of classic rock, chats and rants. Volume 1. How did you choose the chats and rants part? Looking at it, I realized some were conversational.

Most are conversational. Most are interviews. Most are back and forth exchanges we have. But occasionally people like, say, Jerry Lee Lewis would go on a rant, you know, talking about when he wanted to kill Elvis, perhaps. Or even saying if I didn't give him a good review, he'd kill me. Now, that was most likely a joke. He was drinking, but in a good mood.

And I think he was just pulling my leg. I don't think I would have been one of his victims. But there are rants, too. I mean, people would kind of go off the rails here and there, and that's kind of fun, too, of course. We're going to come back to Jerry Lee, certainly. But I love the book. But I want to go through your journey just as a sort of Boston institution.

So talk about, you know, You know, your various stops along the way that were all so great. Went to college at the University of Maine, a major journalism and broadcasting, had a column for the Bangor Daily News while I was in college, a rock column called Rock Garden, and started writing for a very good, but now defunct magazine called Sweet Potato, which started in Portland, Maine. They opened a Boston branch, 1978, which is coincidentally when I moved here. and I kept writing for Sweet Potato, I kept doing the column for the Bangor Daily News from afar,

but I had my eye on the globe too, and I met one of their writers, the late Ernie Sonsaswoso, at a show, we talked, he said, hey, yeah, come into the office, talk to the editor. And, you know, that's the short story of me kind of starting at the globe. And I probably did about 10 or 12 articles freelance, designated as what they did at the time, special to the globe, and then after that, one day I woke up to find my title of change to globe correspondent, which seemed to indicate, oh, okay, I'm going to be doing this on a regular basis. And then this would have been started in, I think, February 79. In 1988, I was hired full-time staff, and I was there through 2005. What was it like the first time you walked into

the newsroom there at the globe? It was different than that. It was different than, you were the it became, because it was in the process of being built or reassembled. So we were kind of working in a makeshift office. It was kind of, well, it wasn't the, if you've seen the movie newsroom, that's identical to what I worked in. I mean, all those years, I mean, just down to a tea. It was phenomenal to watch that movie and go, oh my God, they even got the spiral staircase going down to the library, right. But initially, it was a little bit ramshackle, and then we moved into better quarters. But still, just to sit down and to be amongst a bunch of really good writers, people I'd read for years, and to be the young kid, I mean, I was, well, let's see, 79, I was about 23.

And so, though I had experience, not the kind of experience most of those people had. And, I mean, it wasn't really intimidated, because I did feel like I belonged, but it was a great high to kind of feel the energy at the time. And, of course, that was a time when there were people in the newsroom and people took phone calls and there was a lot of action and interaction. It wasn't remote journalism as we so often have it today. You know, when I would go to work for greater media over there on Morrissey Boulevard, I got to experience the Globe cafeteria. I knew you were going to say that. We got a lot of people from your building coming over who were just delighted to have pretty good food at pretty good prices, right? Am I right?

Oh, yeah. Yeah, it was funny because for us, it was like, okay, well, they have the cafeteria here. They don't want us to go out of the building. There's no good restaurants near us anyway. So they want us just to go upstairs, eat something decent, come back down, take a half hour. And, you know, I mean, not that anybody said that, but I think that was probably part of the logic of having this cafeteria there. And it worked for both sides. You know, I very rarely went out of the building for my midday lunch break or whatever.

whatever it was I took. It was just too convenient and too easy to get something I wanted there. One of my fondest memories was actually being able to sit with a coworker and Will McDunna and sit and chew the fat as we were having lunch, which was unbelievable. Yeah. I bet you talked a lot of golf. We talked a lot of trash. We talked a lot of trash. A lot of trash and golf. It was cool. It was cool trash, you know what I mean? Well, it's fun going off the record, obviously, with, you know, people who are in the biz, and, you know, you can share those things with sort of the idea that it is privately shared.

And, you know, we all shared some of the same triumphs and some of the same tragedies, I'm sure. And the frustration of dealing with, you know, certain people who are above you and made decisions you didn't quite concur with. I'm sure that was common to all. But Will was a tiger. I mean, it was just a, I mean, before he became a TV personality. and, you know, an NFL. I mean, he was a very, what's the right word?

I didn't want to say a vitriolic, because he wasn't a vitriolic writer. He could be, but he was just very incisive. He had great contacts, and I mean, he was a must-read if you were a football fan. And I almost golfed with him one day. A friend of mine, I think it was Steve Sweeney, and he and I were going to play, and then we'll have to bow out because it was something at the last minute. So I never did get to do that. but I did play the course that he belonged to

where there is a plaque, or there has been a plaque, for his favorite hole. And that's the one in Bolton. God, now I'm spaced on the name. What was it? The International, that's it, of course. Yeah, that was Will's. He belonged there. And one of the holes on the back nine, there was a nice plaque there,

saluting Will after he died. That's very cool. You want to saunter a little bit? Yeah, let's solder, sure. Yeah, so there's so many great stories. stories that people should look forward to in the book. And the theme of taking a walk is really music history. So you have lived through music history and you write about it in your terrific book.

So maybe we could walk through a number of the special interviews and scenarios and experiences that you had. So I'm just going to shoot a few of them by you. Sure. John Fogarty, what was that like? That was actually not an in-person interview. I did see him in concert and covered it, but that was a very in-depth phone interview. And, you know, he had come out of his period of animosity

towards Saul Zanzh, who had his songs, and he was feeling very free about his past playing his songs, his present, the fact that his band kicked ass, that his kid was a guitar player in his band. And the one thing I asked him, which I really liked, was, you know, when he first heard Eich and Tina, when did he first hear Eich and do Proud Merrick? And he said, it was by accident in the car, on the car radio. And I said, what did you think? And I forget his exact answer, but he said, basically, it kicked ass.

It was so good. And I'm not sure if he said it was better than Credences. He's definitely different, but I think he recognizes that song, they brought it up to a higher level. Well, what about Tina Turner? So what type of, was that in person? Yeah, that was a dinner. Her record company, Capital, had arranged a dinner with me and some of the Capitol reps and I guess a few others in Boston.

And she was just about to release an album and was at a point of wondering whether she wanted to tour behind the record. Because she kind of, at that point, had it with touring. I mean, as such a great performer as she was, which she knew, it was like she wanted to act. She actually wanted to just kind of move on and maybe move off that stage. And, you know, so she said, I forget the exact number, but she said, you know, if it doesn't do whatever number of sales, you know, maybe I won't go out on the road. Well, of course, it was a smash hit. And she toured long after that and did several, I think, farewell tours before she finally retired

and then lived her life out in Geneva. She was great, though. One of the things about her, she was very dressed down. I mean, I think it was like tan slacks and jacket or something like that. And, of course, people are always a little shocked not to see her in her, you know, stage gear. Not that they should be, because people don't wear stage gear around. But, you know, she was demure in her own way. And I think one of the things I found very ingratiating was she was very candid.

She was talking about some of the skin problems she had lately. And, like, you know, I'm, of course, sitting there thinking, Tina Turner, this most beautiful woman, well, one of the most beautiful women in the world, right? And here she is talking to me in some detail about some of the skin issues she has. And I'm going, oh, God, Tina. I mean, I appreciate it. That's great. It's great to have someone open up and be that candid about her life

and the trust she has, I guess, in you. And she was very, very... It was just a terrific time, a great memory. And then, of course, after her death, you know, I pulled a lot of those things out and, you know, kind of went back there and mentally and just kind of thought about what a good dinner it was. And then all the many good concerts I'd seen from her. Is in River Deep Mountain High one of the greatest friggin' song ever? Absolutely, absolutely it is. I mean, it's, you know, my top ten, if I had one, it shifts all the time.

and that's, I think, always bouncing around in there somewhere, isn't it? I mean, it's just so good. It's just so incredible. You know what? One thing I liked about Tina, too, was I covered it back in the early 80s when she was mostly doing the Vegas stuff and had not really reemerged as a rock and roll performers, certainly not a star anymore. And she played what was then called the Bradford Ballroom. Now it's Royale on Boylson Street in Boston. and drew a great crab

and what was so good was it was so fiery and it was so hard there was no element of Vegas glitz about it or Shobish Slok or anything it was a kick-ass rock and roll show and she did a lot of covers some stone stuff and I mean

she's always been a covers girl's doesn't you know I mean that's part of what she did but she just invested so much in that and then you know when she ascended the latter again. You know, it was very rewarding in a way, you know, feel good for her, certainly, and for the arenas of people that would now see her. But it also felt great to think back in the club of seeing her, you know, at a point when she wasn't at her best financially, I'm sure.

She needed to work. And, you know, she had no idea what the future was going to hold. If she would come back, most people her age don't, you know. And we know what the trajectory tends to be. and she defined that trajectory. I always felt very good about that. Tremendous. So what was the experience like in the period of time?

We just saw a little bunny crossing over here on the path. We will see wildlife out here. Chestnut Hill Reservoir. Thank God my dog wasn't here. I won't go into that gory detail. Oh, please. Did the bunny attack the dog? Is that it?

Yeah, right. Yeah, okay. Like Monty Python's bunny, right? Right. Attack rabbit. Right. Elmer, if you're listening, I'm very angry at you. But anyway. What was the experience like and when was it with Roy Orbison?

Several. In person a couple of times up at the club casino in New Hampshire. And again, this was kind of similar to Tena. He had his hits. He was playing in the clubs. He was adored by his fan base, but his fan base wasn't. huge and they were older and I walked into the first time not really prepared as to how great and how emotional it was going to be I should have been I could have been but somehow I went

and going I think this going to be good it just knocked my socks off with the power all this emotion and voice coming out of this tiny little O of a mouth and he's stoic he stands there and just with his sunglasses on and he just sings and this operatic music, rock music, comes out, and much of it sad, you know, lonely, and I just was so moved. And then I met him afterwards, and it was a very warm conversation. And what I remember, too, is when we met, we hugged. And this was, well, in the 80s, the early 80s, I guess, this was a day before guys' routine, we hugged each other, right? Now we all kind of do. And, we all kind of do. And, we, It's kind of, or you don't know, you bump this, you shake hands, you hug, you don't know.

But back then, it was a warm hug and an embrace, and it felt right, I think, for both of us. And there was one more time also at the club casino, and just, you know, just really great memories. The in-depth interview I did with him, which I believe was the last one he ever did, aside from a brief TV appearance, was done for the globe. before, well, he was in Paris, and he was starting his tour. He was playing the Boston Club, The Channel, and I was doing an advanced interview. And he was very excited because he had the new record coming out. You got it. And you knew it was good.

I knew it was good. I had an advanced tape on it. And I asked him, are you going to be playing songs from it during the show? And he just kind of very politely said, well, no, Jim, I don't think I can do that for my audience right now. The band doesn't quite know him yet, but mostly it's like I don't want to give them things they don't know. Because he knew his crowd wanted to hear hits from whatever era, and a new song that they didn't know would take up that set time. And nevertheless, he was very much looking forward to that next tour when he said, yeah, and then I'll start working a few of these in, and, you know, he could possibly see the trajectory of the reemergence. which, of course, he had after his death, you know, from a sales and recognition point of view.

It's sad how that happens, you know. Oh, it's... That kills me. I was broken up. I mean, that was a funny story, I guess. When he... I'd written the story and reviewed the show, and then it was midweek, I guess it was. And I worked late night, so I was sleep.

sleeping at 10 in the morning or whatever it was. Phone rings. And my editor calls up and says, my Orbison has died, can you come in and do the story? So, as we journalists do, we try to collect ourselves and try to put the tears and the emotion to the side and hunker down and write the story, which I ultimately did. But the kind of amusing part, I suppose,

is that it was supposed to be a day off for me. And the night before, I'd gone out, and I'd had a few drinks. And that morning, I was a bit hungover. So when that phone call came, going to what, huh? And then Roy, well, of course, I kind of sat to it. Nevertheless, my hangover said, I'm still hanging around. I'm a hangover. That's what I do. I said, oh, geez, all right, okay.

So when I went into my editor's office that day, it just came right in. I lived in Quincy, not far from the globe. I walked in. They said, I'm going to be honest with you. This was a day off. And I told him what I just told you. And I just said, do me a favor. Just do a really careful edit on this.

I mean, I know you do anyway. But, you know, my mind, you know, I'm dealing with the tragedy, one, my own situation, too. And, you know, just, you know, do a good edit. And he did. And so he respected me for saying, yep, I get it, okay. So that's the situation we're in here. So, but I miss him so much. I mean, boy, I, too, was just so much looking forward to his reemergence and hearing the songs.

He was a very gentle soul, not as lonely as his songs suggest. He said, that is me. It comes from a place in me, a real place. But, no, he didn't carry that around, you know, and he had in a very kind of gentle, warm sense of humor. He had also recently found religion or refound religion, I guess maybe born again. Not my world, but I respect his. And he was very humble in that sense the way people tend to be when they're born again or rediscover their faith or what have you.

And one of the incidents he recalled was going, I think it was in Toronto, going to a concert, going up to the building and seeing on the marquee, Roy Orbison, sold out. And just said that for whatever reason, that was a moment of, oh, wow. Now, you think he may have seen this kind of marquee other times than I'm sure he did many times in his life. But for some reason, that just hit him as,

I'm successful, I'm still successful. And that gave him some sort of inner boost that just, you know, motivated him, I guess. That's tremendous. a legend. So I want to talk about Neil Young, and just as a sidebar to it, I got to go over to the box center slash Wang and record an episode of the podcast with Joe Spalding over there.

Joe's kind of come out of his shell, hasn't he? Oh, God, he's amazing. I'm joking, of course. Right, he's amazing. Yes. So we toured the Folk Americana Museum, which is a, fabulous. Yes.

But he told me the story how Neil was the genesis of the Folk Americana Museum being there. And this was when Neil came through, I guess it would have been 2018 or maybe here at 19, which that's the only time I ever saw Neil over there, which was... I saw that show. I can't remember the year exactly. Incredible show. Just still think about it and blue it. and blew my mind.

But when did you run into Neil and what was that experience like? Mostly phone interviews, one in-person thing backstage after a show at the venue, formerly known as Great Woods, which I will always refer to as Great Woods, as opposed to some bank or some cable company. And that was really nice. He invited him in. It was dressing room with candles and tapestries. And I got to ask him a question I wanted to ask him for years,

which was, did he really join Leonard Skinner on stage to sing Sweet Home, Alabama? That was a rumor at the time. And he said, no, but I was on my way to. I was going to do that when the plane crash went down. And what a moment that would have been to hear Neil Young sing. I hope Neil Young will remember. Southern man don't need him around anyhow. God, what a great bit that would have been.

And, of course, Ronnie Van Zend. used to wear his Tonight's Tonight, Neil Young T-shirt. So they had a kinship. They didn't hate each other. I just thought that was a great little anecdote. I wish that had happened. And the interviews, I mean, terrific. I mean, much like the music, he would go in every direction.

But it was very committed to whatever direction he was going at the moment. And one of the ones that I recall most was when he put together the international harvesters and did a country tour that went to Foxborough. I'll just call it Foxborough Stadium. Or maybe Sullivan Stadium, as it once was. Might have been then, for all I know. Right. And, okay, so it was a country thing. And he had, who was opening?

It was Whalen or Willie. He was opening. I forget. Anyway. And so he's talking to me about his move back to, or into country music. He'd been there before, kind of. But he was more known for, at that point, the hard rock, the crazy horse. And so, you know, I said,

so what happened to that? And he said, how many loud screaming electric guitar solos can you do anyway? I've had it. This is where I am. I'm like an old town circle in the rug, and I found my spot.

And he did for a while, right? And as we all know about Neil, and I think it probably comes through in my chapter pretty well, he finds his spot. He's very committed to it. And then he decides he needs another spot. Yeah. And then he, you know, recorded some rockabilly music.

And, you know, he did the Trans Synthesizer album. I forget the lineage of it. But as we know, Neil went around and through many, dating different genres. He kind of often and always maybe returned to Crazy Horse. I think that was kind of a bass for him. And he did love that loud screaming to record rock and roll, a little messy. And, but it was just, he was fascinating. to talk to because he was no holds barred of course and back in the musicians starting to sponsor

or sponsors signing up musicians to do ads for them and he'll of course was adamantly against that and he did a song riffing on the this buds for you campaign back in the day called this songs for you or this notes for you this notes for you i think it was and it was just you know very much against that idea that musicians should quote unquote, you know, sell their soul for commercial needs. Things have changed, obviously, not with Neil. I don't think he's ever done anything or ever would, but as we know,

the way the paradigm has changed in music, musicians really have to make money through any means necessary now that CD and LP sales are not what they were. And, you know, placing a song in a movie or a TV show or doing an advert, as Bob Dylan will tell you, can bring in a lot of cash and it doesn't really, I guess, damage the artist's reputation as much as it maybe did in the day or maybe when Neil was talking about it back when. I think people just kind of shrug and go, well, we understand that's the way of the world now.

And when you see your famous rocker that you revere selling, I don't know, whatever product they are signed up to sell, you know, you just got to go, okay, you've got to make your money somehow. I accept it. Well, speaking to that, I want to get your perspective on artists selling catalogs. How do you take that? Do you think that's ultimately, you know, from your perspective, going to keep proving to be of tremendous value? But what's your take on that world? I would say so.

I mean, the number of artists who have done it as they have hit their, well, what, 70s, mostly? You know, it's money, big money for a lot of them. A little pause while a cadre comes by. You know, Satra said hell are other people, but these don't seem like bad people. Well, unlike the Cormorant family out there. Oh, well, he's not bad. He's good. He's just fishing, huh?

He's awesome. Oh, I like Cormorans. Let's see, where was it? Oh, Cadillac sales. Yeah, I mean, I think they see it as both retirement money and money for their family, investment money. and, you know, they're not going to live forever, and why not take advantage of that and come up with a big chunk of cash

that will benefit their family, probably for generations to come. And, you know, of course, you know, when the music is out of their hands, well, then it can go anywhere, you know. I'm skeptical of the valuations holding up. I just am. I don't know why. They do seem astronomical, don't they?

They do seem astronomical, don't they? I will, I grant you that. I mean, I, yeah, I don't know. Predicting the future on that one, it's just too tough. Let's talk about a man, I'm sure you might have encountered once or twice or 300 times. Peter Wolfe. Oh, yeah. Our brother from another mother.

Yeah, many, many, many times. And going back to, when I was a kid and growing up in Orono slash Bangor, Maine, Bangor Auditorium was the only place people came to do concerts. And the J. Giles Band was pretty much our house band in that sense. I can't tell you how many times they played there, but a simple answer would be a lot, and I did not miss one of them. And it was astonishing the energy and the vibe and the sound, and just the way it all clicked. And, you know, I'm young, and I'm seeing this and going, wow, this is a little.

great. Is it always that great? And I had this conversation years later with Joe Perry from Arrowsmith. He too, it was years older than me, but he had that kind of experience too, seeing Giles. And he was telling me, he said, you see them right away, and you think, everything's

like this, and then you realize it isn't. They are just a cut above, or more than that, the rest. And he was very humble in kind of devaluing Arrowsmith's bad boys of Boston tag and saying, no, Gilesman really is.

I mean, he was very much passing that mantle onto them. And, you know, I guess I started interviewing them, probably first year in college, writing for Sweet Potato Magazine and spending some time backstage with the gang. And, you know, mostly Wolf, I guess, he was the voice. And, you know, he said, him, a mercurial guy. as I'm sure you well know. Has his up moods, has his down moods. He's a great, both historian and babbler.

And I don't mean babbler in a bad way. You know, his radio patois, his DJ patois, right? Sure. Which I won't even attempt to imitate. Will you? Never. No, no, no. Never.

Yeah, so I mean, it was in some ways, I don't know if it was ground floor material, but it was one of the bands I wrote about often and got to know quite well in the early days of me doing this. And then, you know, subsequent interviews over the years for various outlets. He's the best. You know, he's, you know,

gone on to do what can be a difficult thing. I mean, he left the band when they were at the peak of their popularity and launched a solo career that didn't hit the Jay Gowl's band heights of their popularity, but proved to be a very successful. successful thing with Duke Levine, one of the best guitarists in the world in his van, the midnight

travelers. And, you know, he's gone on to play. He plays theaters in large clubs. And his energy is still there. He doesn't, what he doesn't do is, do you remember, he used to do that jumping frog thing on stage, right? He doesn't do that. I mean, when I saw him last, no, he can't do that anymore. But Jesus, he's got energy. And I mean, this is like zero body fat, right? Yeah. And, you know, So he really puts everything into it. And I do believe he's finally getting a book together. That's when I saw something, him doing re-edits or something, he was sitting by in his backyard.

People have been nagging him for years because of all the people he knows from Ben Morrison to the Stones to God, you know, old blues guys, everybody. And I think, yeah, I think that's coming at some point. that went. I did ask him about it once. I said, so, you know, I mean, we've all read rock and roll bios and memoirs. Is it going to be salacious at all? And he said, no, no. He's not going to be telling stories of drugs and drinking debauchery. I don't know, maybe a little bit, but not extensively. There's got to be a tiny bit. There'll be some, I'm sure. But I think it's more about the connections he made and the friends he made. And, you know, the fact that

you look at it and go, he's kind of a zealig of rock and roll, isn't he? He is. He's just sort of been everywhere and continues to be everywhere. He's one of the greatest storytellers, too. Yeah, he really is. I was just so mesmerized that every time he tells a story. I know. Yeah. Who was the first person that you ever interviewed?

That is in the intro of the book, backstage and beyond. It's Slade. The glam rock man from England, Bolivorhampton, England, working class towns in the city. They were... Last on a triple bill is easy top headline, Bangor Maine, again, I was not yet a writer. I was doing this for my college radio station, taping an interview with them and putting it on air with putting music into it. And Andrew Gavatsas, who we all know, was the concert promoter back then in Maine, helped get me in the door, backstage door.

There was much less of passes and access. and layers to get through in those days. And I was a neophyte, of course, carrying a tape deck with me and meeting guys who were kind of my heroes because even though no one virtually knew them in the United States, and they played a half-hour set to a lukewarm reception, except in my little quarter,

they were huge in England. They had hit after hit after hit. And because of my reading of magazines like rock scene and cream and circus, I picked up on them, bought the albums. And, you know, they were really right up at the top of my list at the time. I had a dance I listened to all the time. So for me, I'm kind of going into it, you know, meeting these guys I revere.

But when they see me, they're just so happy to have an American journalist, and I guess I should put bunny quotes around them because I was a fledgling journalist at that time, want to talk to them, and knew who they were, and ask them questions about their songs that I knew and where they'd been, which I knew, And the bonding was just, it couldn't have been better. You couldn't have asked for a better entree into the world I would later enter full time. And, you know, there were beers drunk and stories told. And they made me feel like one of the gang.

And, I mean, that's kind of what Slate songs did anyway. Let's make the listener feel a part of it. And in person, same thing. And two memorable quotes that I remember. I mean, the tape is a long loss to the winds of time. Or maybe you would know this. In radio, the waves go out and they go on forever, right? That's correct.

So some alien might be listening to this right now? Absolutely. Okay. Just like semi-illion might be listening to this podcast. To this, sometime millennial down the road. Anyway. That's right. The two things I remember, I asked Nottie Holder, the singer,

they said, yeah. I love that name, by the way. Oh, it's a great name. What a great rock and roll name. And he was the one with a mirrored camp, mirrored top hat. And I asked him, I said, so, you know, you've been doing this for a few years. Do you still get excited every night on stage?

He goes, oh, I do my jeans are stiff as a board. I'm sure your listeners get that. And the other question I remember asking and him answering, they did a cover of John Sebastian's Darling Be Home Soon on their Slade Alive record. Fabulous version, seven minutes or so, something like that. And they do a great vamp, you know, near the end of it. boom boom

and in the middle of that vamp noddy just lets out this and then the vamp continues and you know when I listened to it at home and I got the record

I go that's pretty funny humorous interesting so I asked him I said was that planned he said

no no just happened and you didn't take it out no why it's like spinal tax but the thing It worked, it worked.

And, I mean, it's a great, passionate song. Darling, come home, stoned. And then, you know, the break is just sort of got a burp. Okay, then back in the song. I just, I mean, that was so humanizing to me. Right. And anyway, they, I caught up with Dave Hill, the guitar player years later, actually a few years ago,

and I included some of what we talked about in the book intro, and, you know, just kind of recall that time way back when. And I thanked him, said, hey, you don't know it. but your warmth, largesse, and acceptance kind of brought me into what I ended up doing for most of my life. But did that experience sort of shape you to be able to create this connection with some of your subjects that, you know, happens through and through in the book? Yes. I think I'm a good interviewer, and I think part of that is I do the research and I have an idea of where I want to go. with the interview, but I also listen to the answers. And if the answer's going a different place,

and it's interesting, I follow that there too. And I think, you know, in a simple way, the key is to try to get on the artist's wavelength, whatever that might be. And, you know, just mentioned Jerry Lee again for a second with him. He was drinking whiskey with him and firing things back and forth, jokes, some serious shit, some stuff about how he's wondering whether he's going to go to heaven or hell

and all that stuff. And then say with Roy Orbison, where, you know, it's had sort of a spiritual kind of thing and a serious kind of thing going on to it. And in between, I mean, all kinds of different moods, atmospheres, but you try to get a sense for where they're coming from and try to live on that same turf, I think. And I do think that shows in the book.

I mean, there are many genres represented in many different tones in the book, from, you know, serious to humorous, to anecdotal, you know, some profound, some trivial. But I got the feeling that many times artists would open up to me. Would they say things they wouldn't say to others? I don't know. I'm sure some of the stuff went everywhere.

You know, when you're doing an interview, you say certain things over and over, I guess. But I really did get the sense often there was an intimacy that was there and a trust that was there. and it just sort of Peter Hook, he's in the second book, New Order Joint Division Base Player, he just sent me a blurb for the second book. It is very funny. Hookie and I've known each other for years

and get on well. And of course, as male friends do, they take the piss out of each other. And he did a little bit of that. I forget the exact words, but he was also very good about saying, Jim, there's never been afraid to say, to the effective say,

when we suck, he'll say we sucked. You know, no, you know, no holds part. there. But then, you know, Jim's been a friend for years and years and, you know, like his writing or something like that. And I kind of like that. I mean, I like that. Yeah, it says it well. Yeah. Well, the other one that really struck me, too, in that regard in a different sense, was the connection that you develop with Warren Zevon, that you, you know, write about and share the experience in the book. Years and years. First time, 78, Berkeley Performance Center. He was drunk. I came down from Maine to see the show.

I was a big fan of that first album, the Electro Asylum album. And it wasn't a horrible show. It was just sloppy, and he was drunk, and he had a cup of clear liquid. He kept drinking all night. Went backstage to say, I had junk warrants, so it was kind of just hi, hey, hey, hi, hi, and by. And I interviewed him for real three years later at the Globe, I guess, for the first real interview with him. and I reminded him of our first meeting, and I said what I just said here, and he said, yeah, that figures when I asked if you remembered it, and he said, no.

That was him. That was him at the time. We, again, that wavelength thing, we found it. We shared a similar, wry, dark sense of humor, love of books and reading, and there was a point in our relationship back. where we'd call him up. I had his home number at the time and we just kind of talked books mostly and I love that and you know I it was it was great to bring it out of rock and roll or beyond rock and at times and you know he his career obviously had ups and downs and you know most people think he peaked with Orwells of London and that's all they know and the people who followed him know this is so much more There's always that debate about Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, which I don't want to get into now because it's kind of superfluous. Nope, didn't make it this year once again. But the body of work that he created is just some of the best, again, ranging from the humorous and quick-witted rhyme schemes, subject matter that could be historical or it could be, well, I mean, obviously, you know, funny, he did funny.

But he I remember there was a record I think it was sentimental hygiene where we were talking about that And he said you know Jim I decided not to do funny this time I just decided look if we're gonna do dark let's go dark and let's do it all the way It was like yeah there was a song run straight down he did with pink Floyd's David Gilmore That was very much that about you know the apocalypse on the way or something And you know his his his reigns was phenomenal. He was a terrific pianist, functional guitarist, and a great entertainer in that even when the money dried up and he couldn't bring a band to join him, he played solo tours and he would pack the paradise time and time again in Boston, and he would often do it during

the winter, and then he'd go up to Maine and play ski lodges. There was money to be made, and he was a working musician. And I had a lot of respect for that. And, you know, he knew where his status was. It wasn't what it once was or would ever be again. But, you know, he worked at his craft continually. And, you know, he made friends. He made enemies.

And the chapter's got a few of those things in it. There's some tough stuff in there. He had a relapse in his alcoholism toward the end. And Carl Hayeson, the terrific novel, Miami was a friend and co-writer with three songs with Warren. And I talked to Carl, I think, around 2010. And he told me about some of the final days that he was privy to or what he knew about. There's some heroin tales.

Warren did put out a, however he did it, I don't know, but put out a just tremendous final record. And with knocking on Heaven's Door on it, I mean, the most profound version you'll ever hear of that. I think, considering where he was in his life. And, you know, I think, according to what I know anyway, he was convinced to kind of put the booze aside at the end because these kids wouldn't want to see him go out like that.

I think he did do that. I didn't know him really in the drinking days. One of the problems that I think it was Hyacen who told me this was that once he started drinking again, he had some of those people who never drank with him but wanted to. And they said, hey, Warren's drinking again. Let's go get drunk with Warren. And he let him in, and they'd drink.

And enabling, I guess it's the word, right? And that wasn't good for anybody. But when I knew him, the bulk of it, I mean, he was in the program. And the funny anecdote that's in the book from that is we were at Muso and Frank in Hollywood, at a lunch, you know, doing an interview. And I sat down and we ordered our drinks. He ordered a Diet Coke. And I ordered a beer.

And immediately after ordering it, I'm somewhat aware of AA protocol or whatever. I said, oh, shit, should I not have done that? I mean, you know. Yeah, yeah, Jim. You're ordering a beer. There goes all those years of sobriety because you're having a beer in front of me. And it's like, good, good answer. Fine.

Thanks. I'll have my beer. That's all right. right. So it's a great segment, so many great segments in the book. So Jim, if there was one trait of all of the guests that, you know, that you had on, you know, in the book, spent time with multiple times, if there's one trait of these artists that is one thread of consistency, what would it be? Well, there's 31 chapters. in the first volume.

The kinks have two, one devoted to Dave and one to voted to Braing, because he really had to separate them, keep them separated. As they often were, when they went to concerts, they never rode in the same limo together. They worked on stage together. They were brothers.

They loved each other, they hated each other. But in terms of a trait that would run through all of them, oh, that I don't know. Because there's so many different personalities and so many different people at different phases of their life. And one thing about this book, I kind of make this clear at the beginning, is that these are not complete biographies of any of these people.

These are moments in time or extended moments in time. And this is where they were at and where I was at at that time. And thus, you know, you see Ray, Davis, for instance, in a very reflective mood in the first interview and very self-recriminating in some ways, castigating himself for some of the errors he'd made and bad decisions he made over the years. You know, I have had artists say, after an interview, say, well, it was kind of like therapy.

I'm good. I think that's a good thing. I mean, I'm not a therapist, nor do I know, play one on TV. But, you know, I guess I ask questions that maybe were penetrating or led to deep. deeper thought than, you know, do you think your next song is going to be a hit? And I think they appreciated that and came back most of the time with something good. Occasionally, I'm going off topic a little bit, but this is kind of funny. Occasionally, I'd piss somebody off. I interviewed one of the Judas Priest guitarists before the singer Rob Halford came out as gay. That was, I don't know, 10 years after that.

But the gay imagery was all over their songs, their record covers, Rob's appearance on his motorcycle and his leather. I think he's still riding the motorcycle. I'm sure he is. I'm sure he can get that up. It's a trademark. Anyway, so, you know, at the end of the interview,

and I knew I had to ask this at the end, I forget if it was Glenn or KK, one of the guitar players, I said, kind of innocently, Rob is gay, right? I mean, I'm listening to the songs and looking at the album covers, hang up. And then when they,

slash Rob, decided it was safe to come out of the closet, yeah, then it was fine. You know, they'd talk about it. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, sure, fine. And, you know, when the audience proved it very accepting of it, like, we don't care. But I guess maybe at that point in time, you know, it was a dicey issue, and Rob himself hadn't come out. So I'm sure the guitarist felt he couldn't be the one to break it. And I think he was kind of stunned by the question. And it's like, you know, we just had a good talk.

And now you're asking me this. Click. Click. Yeah, that's all right. It made for good copy. There you go. Congratulations on the book show. Thank you.

Thanks, and beyond. It's a great ride. It's a great read. And I enjoyed it. And looking forward to volume two. What is that going to come out? It should be out in October. Go.

The way it's kind of set up, volume one is artists who started in the 50s through artists who started in the early mid-70s. Volume two takes off around the mid-70s artists who began then, which is to say it's sort of the punk, post-punk, new wave era. Now, some of the artists in volume one, Iggy Pop, Lou Reed, Roxy Music, David Bowie certainly influenced the generations to come, but they got their start back when. The second volume deals with, yeah, the people that were inspired by that. formed this thing, punk rock, which had many different variants, of course, but led to an explosion of taste and emotion and a different sound of that era.

It's not all exclusively that, but that's generally how the books are broken up. My hope is that readers will be interested in both, you know, mirror my own interest in music of all genres from all eras. That's the, as we were talking about earlier, that's kind of your idea too, right? lot of different stuff. Doesn't matter where it came from. Try to be as broad as we can. Yeah.

Well, I look forward to having you on to talk about volume two. Love to do that too. Sounds good. Thanks for taking a walk, Jim. I enjoyed it. Thanks, Buzz. Taking a walk with Buzz Night is available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. When a group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist, they take matters into their own hands. I vowed. I will be his last target. He is not going to get away with this. He's going to get what he deserves. We always say that trust your girlfriends.

Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. In 2023, Bachelor star Clayton Eckerd was accused of fathering twins. But the pregnancy appeared to be a hoax. You doctored this particular test twice, Ms. Owens, correct? I doctored the test once. It took an army of internet detectives to uncover a disturbing pattern. Two more men who'd been through the same thing. Greg Alesspian.

Michael Mancini. My mind was blown. I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trapped. Laura, Scottsdale Police. As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences. Listen to Love Trapped podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

What's up, everyone? I'm Ego Wodom. My next guest, it's Will Ferrell. Woo, woo, woo, woo, woo. My dad gave me the best advice ever. He goes, just give it a shot. But if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit.

If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat. Just hang in there. Yeah. It would not be... Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Listen to Thanks, Dad, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hi, I'm Bob Pittman, chairman and CEO of IHeartMedia, and I'm kicking off a brand new season of my podcast, Math and Magic, stories from the frontiers of marketing. Math and Magic takes you behind the scenes of the biggest businesses and industries while sharing insights from the smartest minds in marketing. Coming up this seasonal Math and Magic, CEO of Liquid Death Mike Cicari. People think that creative ideas are like these light bulb moments that happen when you're in the shower. Where it's really like a stone sculpture. You're constantly just chipping away and refining. Take to Interactive CEO Strauss Selnick and our own chief business officer, Lisa Coffey. Listen to Math and Magic on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.