the bossbabe podcast - 100. The 100th Episode of The BossBabe Podcast: Pass the Mic Roundup

Episode Date: June 15, 2020

In this special episode of The BossBabe Podcast, we’re celebrating our 100th episode by highlighting a few of our favorite moments with some incredible female entrepreneurs that we’ve had the honor of interviewing.  Like all of our guests, these women have brought a tremendous amount of insight and expertise that have helped many of you in your business journey. Tune in as we celebrate our 100th episode by passing the mic and amplifying the voices of these trailblazers, visionaries, and amazing businesswomen.  [TIMESTAMPS] 03:15 - 7:25: Ashley Kirkwood - Attorney, Entrepreneur  “I've always been the only African American woman in my department at these prestigious law firms...” (4:20)  Jasmine Star - Business Strategist and Award-winning Photographer 14:43 - 20:57 “I am okay putting a stake in the ground speaking my truth, understanding that I will only do one of two things: I will either attract you into my orbit, or I will repel you…” [15:16] Selena Soo - Marketing and Publicity Strategist [23:52 - 33:34]  “I think one of the things that have really helped me is this mindset of “start before you're ready” and do the thing that scares you...” [33:34]  Janice Bryant Howroyd - CEO and Founder of The ActOne Group [33:35 - 40:18] “I live by never compromise who you are, personally, to become who you wish to be professionally…” [36:19] Beatrice Dixon - CEO and Founder of The Honey Pot Co [40:19 - 48:42] “Accomplishments don't mean a thing if you're not happy inside…” [45:28] Babba Rivera - CEO and Founder of bybabba  [48:44 - 55:29]  “There comes to a certain point where you just have to have enough trust in yourself that whatever gets thrown at you, you're gonna figure it out...” [49:16] Get two free months of Skillshare premium membership and receive access to unlimited to over 1000+ classes: www.skillshare.com/bossbabe

If you want to be nothing, say nothing, do nothing, make no waves, and even when you do that, they will still have an opinion. So if you know that people will have an opinion of you, you do you. If people really are learning to live together again, not just as citizens out there or business people to business people, but actually in your own homes. Welcome to the Bossway Podcast, a place where we share with you the real behind the scenes of building successful businesses, achieving peak performance and learning how to balance it all. I'm Danielle Canty, president and co-founder of Boss Babe and today Natalie and I are celebrating our 100th episode. I literally cannot believe it. Now when Natalie and I first had the idea

of creating the Boss Babe podcast, we really didn't know what to expect, how our audience would react, or even how to create a podcast. And so we set up In Our Closets and fast forward to just over a year later and over 1 million downloads, we have had the pleasure of interviewing such amazing women entrepreneurs, trailblazers, and epic businesswomen from all backgrounds and from all industries. And the value that these women have brought to our podcast and the feedback we've received from you, our listeners, has been wonderful. And we're just so, so grateful to every single one of you who has supported us throughout this entire journey. And for our 100th episode, we are highlighting some of our favorite moments

from a few episodes that have featured some incredible entrepreneurs and women of color. And these women have brought such tremendous value that they've not only shared with you their expertise and impacted so many of you as listeners, but they've actually really impacted Natalie and I as co-founders and businesswomen. And so we really wanted to take this time to amplify their voices and pass the mic. So today we'll hear some epic moments from attorney turned entrepreneur, Ashley Kirkwood, business strategist and photographer, Jasmine Starr, marketing and publicity strategist, Selena Su, CEO of multi-billion dollar enterprise, Janice Bryant-Howroyd, founder of the Honeypot Co. Beatrice Dixon and last but not least Baba Rivera, CEO of NextGen Marketing Agency by Baba. Now like I said

these are just highlights so don't forget to go and check out the full episodes if you have not done already and as always take a screenshot and share your biggest takeaway on Insta Stories tagging me at Danielle Canty, tag Natalie at I am Natalie and tag at bossbabe.inc. So without further ado, let's jump into our 100th episode roundup. A boss babe is unapologetically ambitious and paves the way for herself and other women to rise, keep going and fighting on. She is on a mission to be her best self in all areas. It's just believing in yourself. Confidently stepping outside her comfort zone to create her own vision of success. Like you said, you transitioned, you took this new role, you were quite unhappy there. What was the kind of like, okay, yeah, I can do this on my own.

Because I feel like there's a big mindset shift when you go from working for somebody else and that comfort of them paying the bills and knowing what's coming in every single month. Like what was it really truly like to make that transition and make that jump? And was there kind of like a little final push or how did that come about? Yes. So after I left a second law firm, my first thought was, okay, well, maybe I can get in another firm that's a better fit. And so I had an offer to go to a third law firm, and they seemed like they were a better fit. They had a lot more diversity because, you know, I've always been, but you never really know. But after going through the entire process with the third firm, they basically gave me the offer. And then they said that there was a complex check. So essentially a case that I worked on at my second law firm prevented me from working at the third law firm without a ton of approvals going through, which is very rare. It doesn't really happen that often. And I think that

was when I was like, okay, this is a sign. It's not going to work out for me at these firms. Obviously, I can spend my experience there. I can promote it to other people. I can take advantage of it, but it probably isn't for me to work there. And I remember praying this prayer to God. I was like, God, I want an opportunity that's custom made for me. And I just felt like I had this push that was like, okay, well, you're going to have to make it because no one knows what you want. And what I want changes, which is the great thing about being an entrepreneur. I will do an event series this year and I may not do it next year. You know what I mean? Like I have the ability to change and grow and develop at my speed and in companies that just doesn't happen that way. Yeah, 100%. I relate to

that. Whenky, when you have your own company, it can be very agile. No day is the same. So definitely a lot of change. A lot of change. And you have great ideas that you can actually implement, especially if you have a team, you're working with other people, you just grow so fast. And I love that aspect of it. And I was not going to get that in corporate, no matter how hard I tried. So after that didn't work out, I was just like, I'm not going to keep going because there aren't that many firms in Chicago that are of the same caliber of my first law firm. So you have about five big firms. You know what I mean? There's not that many that are on that same tier. At that point, I was just like, okay, well, I need to do something for myself.

I need to do something that I like and I need to be honest with myself about what I want. And it's more than money, which for a while, I didn't think I wanted more than, like I thought if I had the money, then nothing else really mattered. But I recognized with my second job that that wasn't the case. So at that point, I was like, okay, I'm gonna do this.

And my thing was six months to profitability and a year to sustainability. And I was like, I'm gonna do this and my thing was six months to profitability and a year to sustainability and I was like whatever if it doesn't work out after a year I can always just go back to working for someone else I think that's like a really big message as well because I think so many people stop themselves doing everything anything because they're like oh what if it doesn't work out like it might not work out and I think that can paralyze people and you know Natty and I are always big advocates of going hey what's the worst case scenario like if it is can you afford to give it a shot for this long I think everyone needs to recognize

that when you start to become an entrepreneur there are going to be sacrifices like there is a risk and you are going to need to cut what you're spending and you are going to be going to be like tight in the rain slightly but as long as you can still pay your mortgage and you can still afford to like live maybe you can't go out for meals every weekend or go on that holiday that year but that short-term sacrifice for long-term gain can be so beneficial I think you have to have that skin of the game and just kind of know okay well look the worst that can happen is this but the best things that can happen are all these things and how amazing would that be and really kind of jump with that positivity and that kind of faith that yeah I'm gonna do this and one of my favorite quotes is you can't fail if you don't quit and so

definitely something I've always lived by well hang on a minute I'm gonna give it a go because I'm really determined to make this work and where I know there's a will there's normally a way and I think you showed that too yeah and I love that saying. That's actually so true. So, okay. So you left and you started. And just tell me, were you used to getting clients at that point with your law firm? Was it something that you were like, okay, I know how easily to get this? Or was it like a completely new thing for you? So prior to law school, I was in sales. So I had some experience doing sales, cold calling, convincing people I did not know to give me money for things. So that's a great skill to have. But at my law

firm, because my clients were like BP, Blue Cross Blue Shield, mega corporations, we didn't get those clients. Those are typically by like partners would get the clients or they were institutional clients of the firm since the 1900s. So the clients were already there. All I had to do was do my job, like just do legal work. I didn't have to get any clients. So that was probably the biggest shift is figuring out, OK, I need a sales plan and I need to relax. Those are the two things that I think people need when they start a business is you need a way that you're going to get clients and you'll have to try out different things.

And then after you get your first 20 or 25 clients, you can evaluate, OK, where did these clients come from? And then amp up the things that were working and amp down the things that aren't working. But I had to figure that out. It was kind of a trial and error. And at first I was just trying any number of things, you know, getting in the press. I was on television in Chicago as a legal expert, getting the firm's name out there that way. I was doing Facebook lives three times a week. I hired a business consultant. So I was trying a number of things to get clients. Instagram turned out to be the one avenue that I use at work the best is using Instagram direct messaging to

introduce myself, get clients, talk some about their needs. And eventually it became so overwhelming that I had to have an assistant help me to manage that part of the business just because it was taking too much time. And getting clients for me is not the hardest part, but balancing that with also doing the work becomes difficult. So like on one hand, I like getting clients. I like going out and getting them. But on the other hand, I have to either hire additional attorneys or I have to balance that between actually doing all the work that I've now acquired. Yeah. And I think that's a constant battle. I always speak to this about clients that we work with as well. It's like, you know, you need to put in that first bit of effort,

but you also need to be playbooking and recording what you're doing so that you can quickly hire somebody when it starts taking you away from actually where your hourly rate is the most because I think a lot of entrepreneurs kind of get stuck in this loop and they really never grow their businesses or scale their businesses because they get stuck doing all the little jobs which really if you build you wouldn't be billing that much and you can actually pay somebody to do it less so I really love that you recognize that and I also really recognize the power of DMs as well we teach a strategy around that in our Insta Growth Accelerator course because there is so powerful and really leading with value and really reaching out to people and showing what you have to offer is really really important when growing a business but another thing you spoke about Ashley and want

to just touch on is you were getting clients you spoke about you know getting on TV and getting press I know that you've really built your business from doing a lot of speaking opportunities. And so I really want to kind of dive in a little bit more into, you know, what it looked like to get TV and press. And then let's go on to talk about how to get speaking opportunities. Because I think all of these things are systems that people forget a lot. They don't tap into this as much. A lot of people go straight to the social media. And this is kind of like a forgotten sales route, in my opinion. I agree. I think press is so powerful because it shows that you're legitimate. And we think a lot about, at least in the online space, a lot of the business is B2C. So business to consumer. But what I've always been very aware of, one, I think I needed

a break from corporate regimens. So I started my business really focused on B2C, business directly to consumers, working directly with solopreneurs and CEOs, solo CEOs that needed trademarking work. They wanted to own their business name. However, I always knew that eventually if I wanted to grow my business and start landing six-figure contracts and above, or even $50,000, $60,000 contracts, I would need to have the legitimacy to go into corporations and use some of that press. So what I did originally is I wrote an article on LinkedIn about the reason that I left my job. I had a lot of LinkedIn followers and I just wrote an article that was called like, this lawyer leaves her six-figure

job to start her own law firm. And the response was humongous. And so from there, I pitched that story to various press outlets. Because if you look at it, people love when people leave six-figure jobs. And six-figure jobs is one thing. A $300,000 job is a whole nother. And a lot of people weren't able to imagine leaving that type of money because for a lot of people, that is their goal. So in the United States, a study just came out that says, if you make $96,000 in this country, you make more than 80% of all Americans per 2018 tax data. So imagine for most people, that's unfathomable to leave that type of money. So that was a really good story. And I knew that a lot of articles or outlets would pick that up.

So I just pitched them directly. I would pitch the editor of the papers or the blogs. And I pitched them on that story also because I had been featured in news outlets while I was working at my first law firm. I reached back out to them and told them, hey, I'd love to write an opinion piece because when I was featured, I was working for someone else. But now I have my own business. So I would love to let your readers know what I'm up to now, considering I was one of the people that you featured on your list of 30

under 30. And they were really open to it. They were super excited about it. And so I wrote an opinion piece about diversity in corporate America, which was great because directly from writing that opinion piece, there were law firms that were reaching out to me to do their diversity training and sexual harassment training, which was something I was sure to put in the article that I did. So a lot of times you just have to pitch yourself. And for TV, I pitched myself to get onto a local network to be their legal expert. And the first time I pitched, I didn't get on. So I pitched about 14 or 15 times and I've been on six or seven times this year. That's a great example, isn't it? Like you can't fail if you don't quit. I'm going 14 times,

like they're like, yeah, we'll just get them on. So she doesn't have to keep messaging. I love that. And I just think that tenacity is really what like sets entrepreneurs apart. Actually also love a kind of a theme that's really coming through from you, Ashley, is that tooting your own horn and being like unapologetically ambitious and doing so and just saying, hey, look, I'm going to sing my praises. I'm going to pitch myself forward for this. I'm going to put myself forward. Because I think a lot of people sit back and think, okay, well, these opportunities need to come to me. I need to be selected for that award or I need to be asked if I want to go and give an opinion. Whereas actually the truth of it is, no, you need to put yourself forward so that you know you exist right now. Yes. And a lot of people don't realize that's not even how it works. Most people who are winning awards and articles, they're applying for

them. Sometimes people are even paying for them. Like it's just not the way, unless you're a celebrity, most people are not just reaching out to you for major media awards. It's a whole industry of applying for awards and, you know, putting yourself out there. It's a whole industry of applying for awards and putting yourself out there. It's not as organic as people think. People are planning this. They're strategizing to get this. So I want to just touch upon, because I feel like we skimmed past it, but it needs more recognition. Within a few years of starting, you actually became an award-winning photographer. How did that happen? You know, okay. So I'm very familiar with the Boss Babe community. And so I want to 100 share my story. And I know that within the community, there are artisans and craftswomen who will hear

what I have to say, and then they'll be appalled. I can't believe she's saying that. And guess what? I'm okay with that. I am okay putting a stake in the ground, speaking my truth, understanding that I will only do one of two things. I will either attract you into my orbit, or I will repel you. I am okay and feel equally the same about both of those things. I will either attract you into my orbit or I will repel you. I am okay and feel equally the same about both of those things. I never want to be lukewarm. It's the people who remain

lukewarm and want to be accepted and loved by everybody are those who are the quickly forgotten. So I am going to talk and share how I created a business and became an internationally recognized award-winning photographer. It was because I created an experience and I built a brand. Let's take a quick pause to talk about my new favorite all-in-one platform, Kajabi. You know I've been singing their praises lately because they have helped our business run so much smoother and with way less complexity, which I love. Not to mention our team couldn't be happier because now everything is in one place. So it makes collecting data, creating pages, collecting payment, all the things so much simpler.

One of our mottos at Boss Babe is simplify to amplify and Kajabi has really helped us do that this year. So, of course, I needed to share it here with you. It's the perfect time of year to do a bit of spring cleaning in your business, you know, get rid of the complexity and instead really focus on getting organized and making things as smooth as possible. I definitely recommend Kajabi to all of my clients and students. So if you're listening and haven't checked out Kajabi yet, now is the perfect time to do so because they are offering Boss Babe listeners a 30-day free trial. Go to Kajabi.com slash Boss Babe to claim your 30-day free trial. Go to kajabi.com slash Boss Babe to

claim your 30-day free trial. That's kajabi.com slash Boss Babe. I was not the best photographer and boy oh boy did I hear it. Starting in 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, there was a whole uprising of classically changed photographers who would look at my work and just tear it to shreds. It's terrible. The lighting's off. Look at the contrast. Look at the hues. Her coloring's off. Does she not understand? And all those years, I kept on raising my prices, raising my prices, raising my prices, and people were aghast. How could this untrained girl from the hood who has no business sense and no right to be out there taking photos running a successful business? And I quickly understood early on that

the industry back in 2007, 2008 was strongly dominated by an old sense of hierarchy and this is the way that it's done. And then digital media, like social media and digital marketing really hit a stride around 2010. I created a blog and photographers were like, what does a blog have to do with being a photographer? And that quickly marked how I was able to attract, I spent zero money marketing my business. People were paying me 10 to $15,000 to be shooting their weddings in Italy, in Canada, in Costa Rica. We were flying around the world. We were working with editors. We were at the top of the game and people are like, you don't deserve to be there. And I wasn't offended.

I looked across them and said, I know, but I am. And along the way, I shared everything I knew to every photographer who asked. I put it on my blog. I created videos. I shared, I shared, I shared, I shared. And when people talk like, how did you get to that point? I created valuable content. I build trust for my clients. They spread my name because they didn't feel like a transactionary event with me. I wasn't just a wedding photographer. I wasn't just working with an art director or an editor. In that moment, I was there to serve them and leave them with such a good taste in their mouth that they're like, I have to share this woman. Like I have to share her work.

I have to connect with other people. That is how I built my business with no money and then was able to really build a profitable business within my first year. There are so many lessons and takeaways in there. Honestly, that was so invaluable. One thing I want to ask you though, because I find quite interesting. So I get what you're saying about people loving you and people disliking you actually, that being a good thing. But what do you think has allowed you

to have that mindset that that's okay? Because I feel like a lot of people listening just don't like to think that people don't like them and they do try and please everybody. So is that something that you have always embodied or is it something that as you've got older and as you've built your business, you've learned to become more resistant to? And is there anything that you practice that helps you do that? For example, I've always struggled with being a bit of a people pleaser and now I have mantras around it. So I've built my resilience up, you know, not necessarily being liked by everyone by having mantras around that, that I look at when I am feeling vulnerable or low in confidence. Have you had to do any of that? I strongly spent probably

somewhere like 30 years of my life trying to please people, trying to fit in. Unbeknownst to me, what happens as a child in the way that I was framed is like, I was always on the periphery. I wore somebody else's clothes. Like we couldn't afford to buy our own clothes. We had our food donated to us. I always worried that I was the odd man out there. People can look at me and be like, she's different. And I think that my whole life, I aspired to go unnoticed. Growing up, I didn't want to be noticed as the girl who looked different than everybody else. I also grew up obese, so I was very big. And as a result of being very big as a child, you're always selected and noticed in a room.

And so I wanted to please everybody. I wanted to be forgettable. I didn't want to stand out. And then I had a really great conversation with my father. And he sat me down and he told me, if you don't want to be anybody, do nothing, say nothing, be nothing. People will have an opinion about you regardless of how hard you try for them not to have an opinion of you. If you think you're doing everything perfectly, there's going to be somebody who looks across and be like, I don't like the way she does

it. I don't like the way he does it. I don't like she talks. I don't like the way she looks. I don't like the way that he teaches. So in my mind, it was like a light bulb went off and I was like, oh my God, regardless of my behavior, somebody's still going to have an opinion. So why not stick a flag in the ground and say, this is who I am. This is who I serve. I understand you might not like me. I bless and release all of that because I could sit back in the shadows of my fears and my doubts, hiding inside of my house, afraid to put anything out online for fear

what people will think. Guess what? People are thinking something about you anyway. At the grocery store, at the post office, as you pick your kids up from school, people have opinions about you. If you want to be nothing, say nothing, do nothing, make no waves.

And even when you do that, they will still have an opinion. So if you know that people will have an opinion of you, you do you. You're serving your highest self and you're living to your maximum capacity. So what are you working on right now? Let's say you started your business. Yeah. How many years ago now?

It's almost seven years. I was going to say six and a half, but it's almost seven. Amazing. And have you like seen a big transition as you've gone through that time? Has it been easy growth? Has it been hard? Has there been ups and downs? What's that journey look like? You know what? It's so fun. And when you love what you're doing, like there's parts of it that do feel easy where you feel really aligned, but business it's hard, right? It's always hard and things may be easy at some point. And then, you know, things change. I think one of the things that has really helped me is just this mindset of like, start before you're ready and do the

thing that scares you. So as someone who is shy and introverted and has like, you know, is overly self-conscious at times, like there's a lot of things that scare me. So I have to constantly be facing my fears. I remember early on in my business, I had a vision of bringing women together and helping groups because I had been a part of that woman's life coaching group and I saw how transformational it is. So I really had that vision of bringing people together in my home. We sitting in a circle. And before I started my business, I was in business school. And there were times where we'd have to get into small groups and introduce ourselves to the group, say our name, what we do,

we're looking to do all of that. And even for me to share a 20-second introduction with a group of five people was scary to me. And I would just be thinking in my head, what am I going to say? And that kind of thing. And yeah, I had this vision of doing a two-day workshop at my home. And I think a lot of entrepreneurs are like this, where they have a powerful future vision that drives them forward. And so I started putting it out there, saying I'm going to be doing a two-day workshop called Elevate Your Brand at my home, seven spots only. I posted that on Facebook and to my email list of about 150 people at the time. And we filled up the spots.

But then it hit me like, I have to do this. And Selena, what are you thinking? Like, you're afraid to talk for like 20 seconds. Like, how are you going to do like a two-day workshop? So I just remember leading up to the event, there were just moments sitting in my chair where my body just kind of felt frozen and paralyzed. And I felt like throwing up and all of that. And I had a friend come over to help me just break down my curriculum and how I was going to lead this workshop. But that's just one of so many examples. And I find that every month,

there's a new way that I have to stretch myself and my business or have a difficult conversation or try something different. So I definitely think for the entrepreneurs who have that longevity, there has to be that openness to doing things differently and also doing things that don't feel natural and comfortable immediately. And one of my favorite sayings that I heard one of my friends say before is that confidence has to be earned. And so a lot of people think like, well, I'll do that when I feel ready, when I feel confident, but you're not born that, right? That way, you know, you have to be courageous to get to that point where then you feel good about it. So yeah, it's definitely been an interesting journey. You know, there's so many things I'm proud of definitely overcoming and

moving forward in the face of my fears is one of the things that definitely is the most meaningful to me. I know exactly what you're saying. Sometimes we have to do things that we don't necessarily feel comfortable doing and it's about pushing through our comfort zone. What strategies do you employ to help you do that? Yeah, so I would say there's a couple. One of them is small steps. So in our mind, you know, we tell ourselves, oh my gosh, I'm going to die speaking in front of that group, right? We just like dramatize things. But when you take a small small steps. So in our mind, you know, we tell ourselves, oh my gosh, I'm going to die speaking in front of that group, right? We just like dramatize things. But when you take a small step and then you realize, okay, I survived, I'm okay, then you start to gain confidence. So just, you

know, one small step at a time. The other thing is talking to a friend or a team member. So if I'm about to do something scary, something that's going to stretch me, I confide in someone else. I talk it through with them and I figure out a plan so that it's more manageable. And the other thing is preparation. So for the things that really scare us, it's very common to avoid them. And then maybe at the last minute, then just kind of show up. But the thing is, the more scared you are, the more that you need to prepare, the more you need to just be in conversation with people about it. I mean, I actually have a story that I would really love to share about how I overcame my own fear of publicity, which is interesting because I help other people with publicity.

But I've traditionally been more comfortable being that more behind the scenes person and putting myself out there has been uncomfortable. Now I love it actually, but I would love to share that story. That sounds good. I would love to hear that. And I'm sure I'll listen as well, too. Okay. So I'm recalling back to when I first started my business. And I had this client who just was really supportive of my work. And she was like, Selena, I want to just share you and your ideas, your message with my audience. will you do a Skype interview with me? And I remember thinking like, oh my God, I don't want to be on camera. But then there was this other voice inside of me that's like, what's the worst that could happen? And you should give us a try. It's also a safe space. This person wants to support you and see

you succeed. So I said yes to the Skype video interview. And I remember leading up to the interview, just being super nervous about it. remember leading up to the interview, just being super nervous about it. And when we did the interview, it felt very unnatural because I'd never done it before. And afterwards, she gave me the recording and I was watching it with my interns. At the time, I was also going to Toastmasters because I knew that public speaking was really a weak point for me. And so they were listening to my interview with me and counting my filler words, ums, you knows, sos. And it was a 40 minute interview. And at one point, not even through the whole interview, we had like 137 filler words. And I just remember watching this

interview and I was like covering my face with my hands. And I just felt like I'm watching like a horror movie. This was like a total train wreck disaster. Because I was not maintaining proper eye contact, my eyes were darting, I was in my head, I was talking fast, I was looking down, I didn't appear confident. And I was just like saying to my interns, like, there's no way I can share this. And I thought about what they said. Honestly, Selena, I think it's better than you think. I actually really enjoyed the interview. And I Selena, I think it's better than you think. I actually really enjoyed the interview. And I think that people are going to get a lot out of it. I thought, okay, well, let's see, you know, maybe I'll just send it to my list and just see what happens.

And who knows, I might never do an interview again. And so I emailed it to my list. And I came back to my computer a couple hours later. And there were emails in my inbox from people being like, thank you for sending this. I love this. This is so cool. And so it made me realize three things that I think all entrepreneurs need to hear when they're thinking about visibility. So number one is we are always our own worst critic.

So rather than me even congratulating myself for doing the thing that was scary, for taking that step forward, rather I was watching my interview and basically having my intern count all the times I screwed up. I was so self-critical. And we're all like that. We're all watching for the mistakes. But the people that are looking to learn from us are not looking for the mistakes. They're looking for the wisdom. They're looking for the story. And so just know it's usually never as bad as you think. And then the second thing I realized is that we have really high expectations on ourselves because we look at other people we admire, thought leaders, and they're like gracing the TED stage, looking so confident.

They're doing video. They just seem so eloquent and they've got their message together. But the truth is those people that we admire, they have been doing this work for five years, 10 years, 15 years, right? And so we are comparing ourselves on day one to them. And they have hired mentors and coaches and gotten support and, you know, put the practice in. So it's unfair, you know, to compare ourselves to them on day one. So we're kind of like in an interesting place when we start putting ourselves out there. Because like, we know we're not as good as we can be, but literally the only way to get better is to do it and not be perfect and just keep doing it and doing it and doing it.

So that was a big lesson. And then the third was that, you know, I realized that I was being self-centered because when I was thinking about my interview, I was like, how do I look? How do I sound versus really focusing on the people that I was here to help, you know, and how is this message going to support them? And so now when I do an interview, I still like trip up. I still use filler words. I still stumble sometimes. I just ask myself, did I show up to this interview with my full presence, my heart? Did I open up? Did I share stories? Did I share valuable advice? Was I really there, you know, for the listeners? And if the answer is yes, then none of the other stuff matters. I don't have to overanalyze it. I know I did a good job and then I can just move on. So that was a really powerful experience doing the thing that's scary. And since then,

I've done well over 100 podcasts and video interviews and done tons of media. Back here, I've got like a magazine that I was on the cover of, Inspired Coach Magazine. And one of the things that's most fulfilling to me is being a role model. I mean, I definitely don't claim to be perfect because I'm definitely not. But I know when I was starting my business, I saw all these like super charismatic, like super extrovert, loud personalities. I'm like, oh my gosh, that's like not me. Is there anyone out there who like has a successful business who has built six figure, seven figure business that is introverted, that is self-conscious, who is highly sensitive. And so I'm grateful to be an example of that for other people. And I also just really love

having the opportunity to help elevate other leaders from all sorts of diverse backgrounds. So when you did get started, what did that journey look like? How did you even get your first customer? Was it your brother? What did it look like? Well, yeah, he was my first customer because he continued to use me after I started my business. He also was a lot of my referral and my network. And I'll tell you, I've written about this in one of my books, my first book, The Art of Work, How to Make Work Work for You. And I talk about WOMB, W-O-M-B, word of mouth business. I got somebody loved it and got carried away and said word of mouth baby when they were interviewing me, but it's actually

word of mouth business. You know what? Even in this day and age, word of mouth continues to be the way that we've grown our business. It's so important because it's nice for you to be able to, with authenticity, cite the values of your company. It's really great when someone else is doing that. And I just think that that cannot be overlooked in this world of social media and self-promotion, which I am a fan of for anyone, but the ability to have someone, I've had clients today, back when they were building a relationship with me, call me and I'm not even be aware they were going to call and tell me another client told them what we did for them. That feels great. You never get tired of that type of business growth. So I think word of mouth continues to be one of the most valuable

contributors to any business's success. And we're all very aware of how quickly a brand can be built or torn down in a moment. You can have 20 years of well-invested brand and servicing clients really well and have 20 minutes of a bad situation and it can destroy your brand. Again, the very thing that builds us up on our technological platforms can also tear us down. So you have to be diligent to paying attention to doing business in the way you say you're going to do it and paying attention to what's happening in and around your business so that you can manage that you're actually able to project into the world and into your own business future those things that are going to help you to grow. Do you have any core principles or ways of doing that? So ways in making sure people are feeling comfortable

referring you out and then also making sure that what you say you're going to do is delivered in the way you said you were going to deliver it? Well, you know, you can become a very good avenue for other people when you have a good brand as well. And for businesses, entrepreneurs, I think that's really important for us to be able to refer each other. So in my own personal instance, I live by never compromise who you are personally to become who you wish to be professionally. That sounds light on the tongue, but it can weigh very heavy on the heart and your bank account if you don't get that and understand that very early in your entrepreneurship life.

The other thing that's really important in our organization is our business culture. And we have a culture of every day is game day. So we bring the best of it every day. It's more of an athletic type kind of reference, the big game day, everybody's out to play their best. And so we just say every day is game day in our organization. And wow, is it these days. But the other thing that we are working very strongly from is real love. My son is in our business and he runs our staffing organizations. One of the things that he teaches from the platform of everything he meets with VPs on is real love. And real love in our world suggests

that you don't say in the hallway what you didn't say at the table, that you have the freedom to express in the room what you're thinking so that you don't have to chatter it about after the meeting. And that may mean not feeling self-bullied or from a peer perspective when others are putting their numbers up. If you're not going to make it and you know you're not going to make it, it's not real love to suggest that you will or delivering to a client or keeping the promise we make to people when we bring them into the organization. All of that is real love. And so you have to be able to do that. And I would suggest real love is extending itself today as well, because now in this

era of pandemic, we are having so many companies who have to have the real love conversations with their clients, with their employees, with their families, with their community responsibilities about what they can and can't do and what is and is not. And it's really important to express real love in this environment more than ever, but it's certainly been one of the things that's been core for us in our organization. And then I would say the last thing is my ABCs. Ask the right questions, then listen, listen, listen for the right answers. B, where you say you'll be, when you say you'll be. Very importantly, how you say you'll be. And then C is circular, complete communication. Everybody who needs to know has to be informed and sending an email, shooting a text, IG, that is not complete

communication. That's all one-sided. It's ensuring that everybody circles back and everybody who should have a voice has a voice. That circle of communication and those ABCs are what will get you through your business to win on the other side of this pandemic. It'll also be what helps you to win as a family. I want to share with you that I learned a statistic, Natalie. It suggested that in one city that I'm familiar with, over this last weekend, when people are asking you to basically kind of lock yourself down and all take personal responsibility for it. We found that in one city, we didn't have that many call-ins for violence on the street. It was domestic violence that was going up. So I think that it's really important for us to, you know, when you step back

to grow forward, think about what that means in our homes and in our families if people really are learning to live together again not just as citizens out there or business people to business people but actually in your own homes one thing i want to just pull back on because you said this and it really like struck home with me you're like you had to get comfortable like being yourself and like self-love and i know that so many women listening to this will be like oh my goodness like I'm just they're so hard on themselves and how did you do that I wanted to first of all yes you know what that's part of it right you've got to want it real shit I wanted to and my mom I was in an unhappy time with my wife and my mom had been with me and watching me. She was just like, you know, you're going to die one day.

You know what I mean? Like you could die tomorrow and you have a great business. You have great friends. You have your mom. You know, you have all these things that make your life so beautiful, right? And she's like, you're hustling backwards in a way, like you're using your time to focus on all the shit that doesn't matter when you got to be focusing on all the shit that does matter. And the things that do matter are all the things that make my life beautiful. And I heard her and I constantly hear her like I got learned how to dye tattooed on my

on my fingers just the letters lhtd so I want to I leaned into myself and I started to learn about different gurus side guru was one of the first ones. And then I learned about Pema Chodron. And then I learned about Mooji. And then I learned about Osho. And then I started to listen to them. And a lot of what they said, it just made complete sense for me because I was there. I had shaved myself and guilted myself enough to the point to where I was just like, all of these things are just in my head. That doesn't necessarily mean they're real. And so I just, I work at it. And I work at it every day. You know what I mean? Like I get sad, I get angry, my ego,

I try to die to my ego, but sometimes that shit just comes back. Right. And then I just have to get to the next moment where I can be like, OK, calm down, breathe. Look at this. Is this really what you should be spending your time on? You know, sometimes you have to mull over something to get somewhere. But in so many people like want to start businesses. Right. It's really important that you make that your business though like if you want to start a business it's beautiful but it's so important to make it your business to get happy and to get calm yeah and to get quiet and to get present as fuck right and to like eat well and to drink water and to sit down and have some sort of meditation, even if it's not you sitting

down in a quiet place, but just being okay with your present moment. That's a form of meditation, right? When you can get to a place where you're not judging yourself. I love that. It's so true. And it's so important. And just you calling out and you have to make a choice. Like if you, if you want to self-love and you want to build your confidence confidence you have to make that choice and you have to invest time in doing that it's not something that comes naturally for most people and those people who want to embody that they work at it and definitely myself like and Natalie like we both always kind of thinking like I actually also discuss this have you ever done like the wheel of life where there's like eight or nine prongs and it's like you choose a term naught to ten on like which area of your life you're in like so friends

family um career personal development hobbies and you mark them out of ten and my theory is that you can never really reach a ten in any of them unless you first reach a ten in personal development because unless you're investing in yourself your relationships are not going to be where they want to be you're not going to be where you want to be in work like and I think it's a knock-on effect and those changes start with us and I think when we realize and we take responsibility of that that's when the other things start falling in place like you say even going back to like disowning like okay well I'm not a whatever happens I'm never a victim it's always happening for me and not to me so how can I show up for this exactly and how do I have the

most abundant experience in all of my experiences even if it's full of black you know what I'm saying like it's important to pay attention to that and it's so important to understand that you're never going to get to the place of truest purest. I did a podcast and there was a woman on there and she was saying how she was like the black sheep of her family and she was just unhappy and nobody was ever there for her and

everything that she had to do she did for herself. And she was asking the panelists to recommend something to help her to get to where she needs to get right and i'm not saying this in a comparison i don't think that there's a right or wrong answer but it really me because everybody on the call told her about their accomplishments right yeah and this is just my opinion my opinion doesn't mean shit. Accomplishments don't mean a fucking thing if you're not happy inside.

Right. Oh, 100%. You have to get to a place where you don't. You are so fulfilled in yourself. Right. You are so fulfilled within your energy that it wouldn't matter if the world was against you. Right. Because you're for me.

And it's so important for humans to understand that shit right and also I think it's really important for you to get small to have very a very simple life yeah I always say as well that like success is an objective so it's not like something like a number's not going to make you feel successful like it's not tangible it's really subjective it's like how you feel about what you've achieved like you can be successful and have nothing and you can have everything in the world and feel like you're still not successful so it really is like kind of making peace with that and that's definitely something I've learned on my journey and you know that it's not you can't just keep going after things like that's never going to make you feel happy nor successful no so you have to like say find that inner peace and go okay

i'm happy with this and without it and that's what really matters exactly because if you are able to me a person who has all the money in the world who has zero happiness and lives on antidepressants and yeah and look and sometimes those things are necessary you understand what i'm saying i'm not gonna downplay that shit like it's not a thing because it is a thing yeah but i also think that it's a thing to really i don't want to sound insensitive it's also a thing to just be really responsible for your mental health as much as you can control and if you can't control it then you should be responsible and go to the doctor and figure out what medication works and what doesn't work.

But also making sure that while you're doing that, you're like paying attention to what you're eating. You're paying attention to what your supplements are. You're paying attention to who you hang around with, to how often you're in social media. Are you doing things that you really don't want to do? Are you repressing yourself? Is there shit that you really want to do, but you feel guilt and shame for doing it? Fuck that. Do what you want to do. You understand what I'm saying?

Don't repress. It's that responsibility. Yes. There's nothing wrong with anything because there's nothing new under the sun. There's nothing wrong if you've got a disease that was sexually transmitted. There's nothing wrong if you're bipolar. There's nothing wrong if you're anxious. There's nothing wrong with any of those things, right? There's nothing wrong if you choose to be reckless with your life, if that's what you choose, right? But if you really want a fulfilling life, if you really want you choose right but if you really want a fulfilling life if you

really want to be happy if you really want to love yourself even in the midst of having whatever you have going on in your life right it's just important for you to own up to that and really make a conscious decision and do whatever it's going to take to get there and that is the hard part you know that's the shit that can be locked on people so what advice would you give to women that are listening and they are perhaps working for someone else and really, really want to start their business or that perhaps entrepreneurs, especially in the early stage, what advice would you give to them about going after that kind of dream, building a business, especially in the early stages? I think one sort of like universal advice can be to not overthink it. I think in a way, I'm happy that I just jumped headfirst on this because anyway, can't anticipate all the problems. So there comes to a certain point where you just have to have enough trust in yourself that whatever gets thrown at you, you're going to figure it out.

So I think there is strength in not letting yourself overthink something and just trust that gut instinct. I think the other part of that advice, though, is to also be realistic in the sense of what your expectations are. I think it's easy to look at a lot of other founders and see what they have and think that you're going to have that month two into your business just because now you're also a CEO and a founder. That's not how it works.

A lot of these founders have been working on what you see today for many, many years. And it's not glamorous in the beginning. So be ready for the ride. I also like to remind everyone that it's not for everyone and not everyone has to be an entrepreneur. You can be happy and successful in life being an employee. There is nothing wrong about that. But if you do know that entrepreneurship is a dream of yours, then don't let fear or sort of like other people's voices stop you. Like you will figure most of it out as you go. Yeah, I can totally relate to that as well. Because when I was growing up, my mom didn't really mind if I did my homework or not. And she always kind of just trusted me

to get on with things. And she was like, Oh, you can always, you can rely on Natalie, she'll get it done. She doesn't need any help. And I've kind of kept that with me today. Like if someone tells me to do something, they never need to remind me, I'm just gonna go off and do it. And I'm very independent. So I can really relate to that. Yeah. And it's interesting how I feel like with parenting, we always thought that you have to create those boundaries for kids and whatnot. But I'm definitely the exception to that rule because I had no rules at home. I was just always trusted. And I don't know if there were no rules because I never got into trouble or if I never got into trouble because I had so much trust. Like, I don't know which one is the reason, but it turned out fine.

Yeah, I can really relate to that as well. So you went to college and did you go straight into the fashion industry from college? What did your early career look like? So here's the thing. I always liked fashion. I think I started to sort of pick my own outfit at age five or four. My mom would like put out clothes for me and then I will come down to breakfast and I will be wearing something completely different. And she will be like, okay, I guess you're wearing that to preschool today. But because I come from a really humble beginning, nobody in my family or any friends of my family had any jobs they sort of loved. So I grew up thinking that a job is something that you do to pay your rent and not something you sort of can

turn into a passion because I just didn't have that role model. I had never seen anyone have a passion that was also paying their bills. So my passion was fashion, but I never thought that would be sort of a career in itself. So I was doing it a lot as a hobby. I would buy clothes at H&M, remake them, open dresses up in the back and like, sort of like redesign them a little bit based on like what I had seen on magazines on the runway. And then I would resell them on the Swedish eBay and sort of be like, Valentino inspired a dress. But it was actually like an H&M dress that I had just like remade. So I love to buy and resell clothes. So yeah, long story short, when it came to sort of my education, I didn't study fashion or arts

or anything like that, because that just like in my world view was a hobby and not a job. So I went into marketing and business. And that's sort of how I later on realized that, wait a minute, I can actually combine this serious world of marketing and business with this hobby of mine, which is fashion. And kind of like the happy medium for me ended up being the eyewear industry, because that felt academic enough in the sense that it had to do with like eye doctors and like vision that felt like, I don't know, serious enough. But then at the same time, you had the fashion element of like glasses being such a huge part of a fashion statement. It's an accessory. So yeah, super strange how like my worldview worked at that time. But that's really how I sort of like ended up where wanting to enter the eyewear industry, it felt like, oh, it's like half part serious, half part fashion. I love that. And I can really relate to what you said about the way you grew up

because it was the same for my family. And they always had this phrase, you work to live, you don't live to work. It was so interesting because for me, work is such a big part of my life and it's something that I really enjoy. But I come from such a different background where that wasn't ingrained in me, but I was was always questioning is this the way it really needs to be and sounds really similar to you where you kind of just kept taking opportunities and being led by things that really lit you up which from the looks of your career it's been that it's been okay let me follow what really lights me up and let me try things and let me not be afraid to try things to get where you are now.

Have you always had that kind of attitude? Yeah, I think I was a little bit more risk avert earlier on. I wouldn't even say career, but like earlier in age, I was very serious in school. If I didn't get the highest grade, I would like cry and run home crying. Everything was life or death. And I think that in a way, I just feel so sad of thinking back to little me, just being so fragile and just trying my best and just hoping to not fail. I don't know really when that eased up on me. I think part of it was when I moved to Stockholm. So I moved from my hometown to Stockholm, the capital of Sweden, to study. And I think I got to broaden my perspective there. I met other people who were just like me, second-generation immigrants or people who

were trying their best to create a life that was very different from the one they grew up with. And I think in just seeing other people on that journey and other people succeeding with unconventional paths that built more resilience and hope in me. And as a result, I started to become a little bit more fearless. And I think later on, I realized that because I come from such a humble beginning, there is nothing I can really do to lose

because that just means that I'm still where I am. You know what I mean? Like I don't have anything to lose really. I can just try totally and go from there if you loved this episode please subscribe download a few more and please leave us a review I really want to hear what you enjoyed what your main takeaways were and I also want to know what you want to hear us talk about next to To say thanks for leaving us a review, we'll send you a copy of The Boss Babe 25.

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