the bossbabe podcast - 103. Rebecca Minkoff on How to Get Started Successfully in the Fashion Industry

Episode Date: July 6, 2020

We’re joined by legendary businesswoman and award-winning fashion designer, Rebecca Minkoff. With 15 years of experience in the fashion industry, Rebecca is a wealth of knowledge and entrepreneurial wisdom that she’s sharing with us in today’s episode. It should also be no surprise that Rebecca is one of the ambassadors for the Pitch Your Biz Competition with ELLE.  Rebecca’s no fluff, straight-forward approach to business is packed full of hustle, persistence, and unapologetic ambition. Tune in as we dive deep into the early days of Rebecca’s career, from how she started in the fashion industry to launching her first line at 21 and growing her brand and business into the iconic empire that it is today.  Get ready to feel inspired and empowered with actionable business tips and entrepreneurial wisdom from Rebecca Minkoff. Important Moments with Rebecca Minkoff: [4:06 - 8:40]: Rebecca’s journey from fashion intern at 18 to launching her first line at 21 [9:26 - 9:51]: The biggest challenge that she faced in the early stages of her business [13:08 - 13:54]: Why consistent success is rare and what ‘real’ success truly looks like  [15:10 - 16:00]: The power of networking pre-social media  [16:55 - 17:15] Learning how to accept the possibility of rejections  This episode is brought to you by ELLE, iconic lifestyle brand, and the world’s largest women’s fashion magazine. We’ve partnered with ELLE for their 75th anniversary to celebrate women entrepreneurship. Submit your business pitches to our Pitch Your Biz Competition at bossbabe.com/elle.  Get two free months of Skillshare premium membership and receive access to unlimited to over 1000+ classes: www.skillshare.com/bossbabe  Follow us: @bossbabe.inc @iamnatalie @rebeccaminkoff 

Business is like the highest highs and the lowest lows, and it doesn't matter how big you get or how long you've been around. There are challenges all the time and there are huge successes and then huge losses. You have to just love what you do so much that it doesn't matter if you're making money. Welcome to the Boss Babe podcast, a place where we share with you the real behind the scenes of building successful businesses, achieving peak performance and learning how to balance it all. I'm Natalie Ellis, CEO and co-founder of Boss Babe and your host for this week's episode. In case you missed our special announcement about our partnership with lifestyle and media brand powerhouse Elle. Elle means she in French and for

its 75th anniversary Elle is partnering with Boss Babe to celebrate female entrepreneurship. We believe that women are the future of entrepreneurship and this year more than ever we want to discover and reveal the faces that build tomorrow. This is such a profound moment for us. I'm so so proud. We've always been so impressed with how empowering their message has been. And we're really happy to be partnering in a way that can amplify our impact and mission in the world. I remember growing up reading Elle magazine, so it's a total pinch me moment. So our guest today is actually one of our role models for this partnership, Rebecca Minkoff. Now, she doesn't really need

much of an introduction, to be be honest but the CEO of a fashion empire that's been around for 15 years, Rebecca Minkoff's name is synonymous with chic and trendy handbags and accessories. Today we're going to hear from Rebecca on how she went from hand-making t-shirts to developing a brand that's in well of over 900 stores worldwide. We also talk about what kind of impact that had on her business when COVID hit, which was a pretty significant one, she said. We'll also do a deep dive into Rebecca's strategy for getting her brand in front of the right people by using influencer marketing and the importance of networking when building a business. The entrepreneurial journey, like we know, is not the most glamorous, despite what a

lot of people think. And Rebecca really gets honest about the lessons that came along with creating a global fashion brand and how she's been pivoting in the past few months. She's the epitome of someone who's worked super hard to achieve her goals and her unapologetic ambition is so inspiring. So we're just really honored to have her as one of our ambassadors and I know you're going to love this interview. And don't forget to stay tuned at the very end of the episode, I'm giving you all the information about the Pitch Your Biz, where you can win $15,000 for your business. Guys, if you have not entered this, I need you to stop everything and go and enter all the info is going to be below. But you could be winning $15,000 for

your business, why would you not enter? I was expecting 10s of 1000s of applications. And we've had a couple of 1000. But honestly, in comparison to how people listen to this podcast, follow us on Instagram, sign up for our webinars. Like just an example, we get around 40,000 people sign up for our webinar. We are not seeing those numbers with this contest. So firstly, you're going to have a much better chance of winning. Secondly, I'm in shock. Why are we not putting ourselves forward to win? This is $15,000 for your business or your business idea, which I know would be helpful for you. So go

enter. I cannot stress that enough. So with that, let's dive right into today's episode. And as always, take a screenshot, share your biggest takeaways and Insta stories. Tag me at IamNatalie at bossbabe.inc and at Elle Boutique. A boss babe is unapologetically ambitious and paves the way for herself and other women to rise, keep going and fighting on. She is on a mission to be her best self in all areas. It's just believing in yourself. Confidently stepping outside her comfort zone to create her own vision of success. Welcome to the podcast, Rebecca. Thanks for having me.

So I want to just dive in right at the deep end and talk about you being, I think you were 18, it says, when you moved to New York and decided to start a fashion label. I feel like there are so many 18-year-olds that want to do that, but very, very few people firstly actually do and secondly grow an empire like you have. So what was that that you had at 18 where you're like, I can go do this? I really think it came down to the fact that I just had this driving force within me that I had to get to New York and I had to be a designer and I had to work in fashion and I couldn't think about anything else. Looking back, a lot of my friends took a year abroad and I thought to myself at the time,

like, oh, why are they doing that? They're going to lose a year of their career. Now I kind of wish I'd taken that year abroad knowing that once you start working, you probably don't stop. But I just had to break into the industry. And so for the first three years, I worked for a designer. I had an internship and then was able to show that I was, I guess, a good enough hard worker that they hired me. So I really got to learn a lot about the industry in those first three years before fate intervened and I launched my own line at 21. So did you have that internship lined up when you moved to New York and where were you moving from? So I was born and raised in San Diego and we had moved to Tampa, Florida when I was 10 and then left there at 18. And my brother knew a designer just through business contacts and had emailed him and said, Hey, can my sister, you know, are you offering internships? My sister loves fashion. Can she get started? And I don't know how they did this, but they offered paid internships at the time. So I was able to move

again, nowhere to live. My parents were like, we're not paying for anything. If you want to do this, go do it. But I sweet talked a friend of mine at Fordham University to let me sleep on his couch. So that was kind of my first entryway into the city. And so you were there for three years, and slowly, I guess, building up that career, your experience. And what do you mean when you say fate intervened? So fate intervened because I was able to get a lot of my work done at the office most days before six o'clock. And the CEO kind of saw that I was really hardworking and allowed me to pursue my own

personal design if I had extra hours in the day. And so I started basically working on my own line and had scheduled on September 10th, 2001, a group fashion show. And in it had some cut up t-shirts that I had made some like a five piece collection, an actress on the ninth before the show, it said, oh my God, I love your shirt. Will you send it to me? So I sent it to her on the 9th. I guess when I say fate, the towers fell on the 11th. She wore it on the 13th on Jay Leno. He asked her about it and she said my name. And for weeks, my name was in magazines. And again, anyone who's listening, this was pre-social media. So the power of a magazine at that moment in time had the power to launch a company. And that's exactly what happened. So I just started headlong

into making those shirts. My boss could see that my spark for working at her company was sort of petering. And so she said, you're fired, go do it. I'm here for you, but it's time you fly. And so were you making those shirts at that company? Where were you doing all of this? I was making all of them myself. So I would go down to Canal Street and I would pick up a bunch of these I Love New York shirts that they just make, who knows where they make them, probably sadly not in the US. And I'd go cut them up, but dazzling was a big trend at the time. And so I would be dazzled them with hearts and rhinestones and sell them. So I worked with one small e commerce site. Again, e commerce

was also just developing. And so the woman would order the shirts, I'd go make them and she'd hand me a check upon delivery. So really just kind of started like that. So you were dropping these shirts off, she was doing all of the shipping and stuff. And so when all these magazines were mentioning you, was that retailer the only place that you could get your designs at the time? Yeah, there was also a couple of boutiques on the Lower East Side that I was selling in as well. And so there was like three outlets, maybe four places that I was selling total at the time. And how long were you doing that before you decided, okay, I'm going to really go all in with this? So I really focused on the shirts for about nine months because the orders were so, there was just so much that I couldn't really focus on anything

else. And by the time, you know, nine months had gone by, I was sick of the shirt. It had kind of run its course. And so what I decided to do was launch a very small ready to wear collection. And I was able to get my foot into a lot of boutiques because they'd heard my name, they weren't sure how, but I just started making phone calls. And really just being like, hey, you might have heard here's, you know, my press kit and you know, going door to door. What was the biggest challenge you were facing at that time because I imagine it sounds like you were 21 this t-shirt just blew up and you're then scrambling to make all of these t-shirts at home what challenges were you facing then oh my gosh so many challenges I was basically existing on money I was making as a stylist which is a whole other story about how I fell into that that I'll spare you but I was able to make was making as a stylist, which is a whole other story about how I fell

into that, that I'll spare you. But I was able to make decent money as a commercial stylist and any extra outside of rent and food would go into my business. And I was not good at the mathematics part and the costing part. So I probably was just losing money left and right, but I had a decent account base. I was making everything along with one other sewer. So the challenges were always financial. Like you're buying fabric in the garment center. That's probably double the price. You can't ever really afford to buy bulk products because the minimums are so high. You know, you could have cut costs by going overseas. Google wasn't really around then I think. So it's not like you could find these factories easily so

just the cost alone you couldn't hardly make money on that model at that time. And was it at this point you were already in business with your brother or did he come on later? He came on when I launched the bags so in 2005 I decided I wanted to do one bag as an accessory to the collection. And I was getting enough notice just carrying around the sample that I was like, there's something really special about this bag. And then a friend of mine saw it and she was like, oh my God, this has to go into my store. And I know the author, writer at Daily Candy, which at the time was like this one email you'd get in your inbox.

It was the newest, hottest, latest. And again, another venue that could transform and build companies. So she said, I'm going to buy 12 units and I'll put you in touch with the writer and she'll write about it. So I think the article came out in September of 2005 and it was called the catwalk of shame because I named the bag, the morning after bag. And it hit a nerve with women. The price point was contemporary price point, which was also a new sort of affordable luxury price. The style had a classic-ness to it. So it wasn't sort of what was happening at the time was the Fendi spy bag or all these iconic bags, but ones that after three months kind of feel a little bit dated. And so this bag hit the trend, but also felt classic. So when my brother could start to see just through hearing

me talk to my dad and I would call for advice when he started to see it was like, Oh wow, there's a business here. You know, that's when I had originally, I called my dad and said, can you loan me some money? I need to place my first order, my first real production order of 75 units. And he was like, no, but call your brother. So that's when my brother order, my first real production order of 75 units. And he was like, no, but call your brother. So that's when my brother said, hey, I'll do this with you, but we're going to become partners. And so that was like the slow dance to becoming true co-founders. And what age were you at this point? By that point, I was 25. So it sounds like this whole linear fashion and it sounds like, okay, it was pretty easy. We did X, Y, Z, which I'm sure behind the scenes was complete opposite.

There must have been for you so much determination to I'm sure you're working crazy hours, not getting paid very much because all your money was going back into funding. So what was it that kept you going when things must have been crazy? I think it was just that passion. I just interviewed a woman actually

from my podcast and she was like, you have to work for what you want as if you're doing it for free, because it's very rare that you have consistent success and or what you see on social media of all these people being so wealthy, like that is a 1% situation. And so you have to just love what you do so much that it doesn't matter if you're making money. You know, I thought about money in that I thought about like, Oh, it'd be so nice to be able to go out to dinner. Or it'd be really nice to go to that, that mythical place called the Hamptons, or it'd be really nice to not sweat my rent every month. But other than that worry, I just loved what I did so much. And I just wanted to keep doing it and keep building it. I think that's such a good point, what you said around consistent success, because I think

often business can look like it's this graph up to the right and things are just getting bigger and bigger. But did you feel like there were moments where you would get really good momentum and then things would drop again and you were on this kind of hamster wheel? You know, I think there's a misnomer in business. People just think you get started and it's either a rocket ride and you get to stay there or it's like a slow mountain climb. And business is like the highest highs and the lowest lows. And it doesn't matter how big you get or how long you've been around. There are challenges all the time and there are huge successes and then huge losses. And I know that not just from my experience, but from every founder I speak to, there are just never ending challenges to a business. And that's not a bad thing. You just should be prepared for

it so that you don't go in blind thinking that it's going to be this hard work and then this payoff that just lasts. And you get to put your feet up and kind of pump the brakes. I don't know of a shortcut. There are a lot of other shortcuts in life, but this isn't one of them. Let's take a quick pause to talk about my new favorite all-in-one platform, Kajabi. You know I've been singing their praises lately because they have helped our business run so much smoother and with way less complexity which I love. Not to mention our team couldn't be happier because now everything is in one place so it makes collecting data, creating pages, collecting payment, all the things so much simpler. One of our mottos at Boss Babe is simplify to amplify and Kajabi has really helped us do that

this year. So of course I needed to share it here with you. It's the perfect time of year to do a bit of spring cleaning in your business, you know? Get rid of the complexity and instead really focus on getting organized and making things as smooth as possible. I definitely recommend Kajabi to all of my clients and students.

So if you're listening and haven't checked out Kajabi yet, now is the perfect time to do so because they are offering Boss Babe listeners a 30-day free trial go to kajabi.com slash Boss Babe to claim your 30-day free trial that's kajabi.com slash Boss Babe yeah I totally agree and so going back to you launched your bag it's so interesting because like you said social media wasn't really a thing back then but what was a thing for you is celebrities were constantly being shot with your bags. It was a thing. They were everywhere. And was that kind of your first taste, I guess, of influencer marketing back in the day? I mean, it really was. I think that, you know, without social media, with web

e-commerce being very nascent, again, I don't think or remember Google being something that people actually use. Getting your product on celebrities and getting into magazines was your way of reaching the customer. End of story. And or these things that I laugh at now, but like these gifting suites where you come in and gift to all the somewhat famous people that walked in and hope that they wore that item. But that was really the way to drive awareness back then. And how were you getting into the hands of celebrities? Was that really difficult? Or did you kind of find a way in? I guess because I had enough connections within the media arena at that time, and a lot of friends that were stylists, I would say it wasn't as hard as someone might be who comes in a totally a stranger. But you have to imagine that by then I'd

been in business for four years. So I had some connections. And so it was always the six degrees of separations of do you know, blah, blah, blah, can you get me to her or I'll never forget an email I received one day was from an agent. And I recognized not her name, but I recognized her company. And I said, listen, lady, I know you want this bag. I'll give you this bag. If you can get it to your clients. And her clients happened to be very well-known celebrities at the time. And so that was one connection. And then she would introduce me to someone else, but it was not inbound. It was me constantly asking, searching, seeing who worked with who, or am I at the right party? And does that person know someone who knows someone? And really sort of putting a

lot of attention and time into making sure that I kept up those relationships and that I was as supportive as these people were to me. And what did that look like for you? Because I think that's such an important point about leaning on your network and putting time into building your network. But I think often people can feel a bit fearful about asking for support or asking for anything. So what are your tips when it comes to being able to really build those strong relationships where you can ask for favors and you're also helping in return? I really think that you have to get okay with asking and knowing that a lot of times the answer is going to be no and taking the emotion out of it. I think when you can look at this as a numbers game at first, it's how many postcards that I have to give out in Union Square for that

one top to sell. Okay, now that I know that it takes a hundred postcards handed out to people like I did at, you know, weekly to get my product to move. Now, if I want to sell 10 tops, that's a thousand postcards. So it's like, how many contacts can you get in touch with that will help you? And again, 99 of them might say no, but there's going to be that one. Yes. And that less that yes can lead you to an entire new network. So for me, networking was everything. Asking was everything. I liken it to a muscle. Practice with your friends. If someone says no, it doesn't mean no forever. And then make sure that you don't forget who helped you. You don't get too big for your britches. There's a lot of influencers that we worked with early on before they were

a thing that have gotten really big and forgot who helped them get a leg up. But I always made it a point to say, you know what, you helped me get here. How can I help you? What can I do for you? And when people feel that genuineness, they also work a lot harder to really help you out. I love that. And yeah, you've mentioned before that you have often seen success with working with up and coming influencers versus influencers that might have massive followings right away. What's been your strategy with influencer marketing? Because you were also, you know, you've had influencers on the catwalk, you've really done things differently in that space. So for us, there was never a crafted strategy in the beginning around influencer marketing, we saw an opportunity of where things were going to go with people following these

people. And we said, this is a really great way to connect deeper with our customers. So we were had interventions with department stores. They were like, don't use these C and D list celebrities. We were like, we think there's something here. And obviously, thankfully we were right. And so for us, it's about building organic relationships. Now I would say there's different uses for when you want to use an influencer. Is it brand awareness? Is it pure moving units? Is it establishing a new sort of micro or nano audience? So now we sort of look at influencers depending on how we want to launch something and what its purpose is. So, you know, in the beginning it was the wild west and we just said, let's work with as many as possible, like that really fit our brand and let's try things. And I think sometimes

people can be afraid to try things for fear of it not working or, you know, doing something wrong. And we've always sort of had the idea that you have to try, you have to test, and then you can optimize from there. So now obviously, what is it? 15 years in, we're a little bit more savvy with, you know, how we work with influencers. But I think the beautiful part is if you're a small brand, that's just up and coming. It doesn't cost you any money to work with these people. They always need new talent to feature and to support and promote. So use that smallness to your advantage to really get these people to help your business. And how do you recommend doing that if you are small and you don't have a budget and maybe they don't know anything about your product, so they're not really excited to receive them? How

would you recommend going about those relationships? Again, I think don't underestimate the power of your network. I think use your DMing capabilities, use your Instagram story capabilities. You know, in the beginning, we didn't have a big budget to do gifting. I'll never forget our first sort of event where we were going to give away our newest bag. We had 18 bags to give away. And I was like nauseous because I was like, we can't afford to do this. And we're giving them away. And then I saw one of those bags end up on eBay and I was devastated. I was like, I have to track down who that person was because they don't know how expensive this product was to make and gift. So

I think it is part of your marketing budget. You do need to allot for it. Even if it's a couple of items, go for it. And I think, again, these influencers need content to shoot. They need new brands to launch. And so don't be afraid to just reach out to a lot. Like it's a numbers game. Every day I'm going to reach out to 20 different influencers and see who says yes. And then see what happens. Do you get three replies from that? Do you get zero? Okay. So increase your numbers again. Yeah, exactly. And like you said, be willing to hear the word. No, it's not the worst word in the world, but I think it's a word that a lot of people are really scared to hear. Yeah, but it's going to happen. So people just have to get a thick skin and get used to it.

You know, like I can't say enough about we're still turned down. We're still told no. I'll still go into a meeting thinking, oh, this is going to be, they're going to love this. And it's like crickets. So I think you just have to get stronger at that. And again, sort of strip the personal emotion out of it. Yeah, I completely agree. So going back to you came together with your brother and he helped you finance and you launched this, your bag, and it was a massive success. Clearly, what's your journey been like from that point over 15 years growing this into the brand that's known around the world now. What was that journey

like for you, especially in the early days, starting to scale up, hire a team, I'm sure learning what it was like to be a leader, to be a manager with very little experience, I'm sure. Yeah. I mean, I liken my career to getting a master's degree in so many things. You learn all these things later on in the journey that you're like, if I only had known this then. And again, the journey is up and down. And so you have these, we went into high growth mode in the beginning. We couldn't keep up with sales or orders. And our biggest challenge was financial. It was getting someone to take us seriously and loan us money. Then sort of plateau as a brand as far as sales.

And then it's, well, how do you stay relevant and exciting? You know, some of our challenges then became, okay, we focus on growth for so long that we established no inner culture. So anyone that works here doesn't really understand what we stand for. Okay, let's focus internally. And so that, you know, there's different phases to this journey. And over 15 years, you know, there's been times where it was like, all right, we're going to close up shop. Business is terrible. Or, you know, this company went out of business and didn't pay us. I mean, I'm starting a newsletter called You Can't Make This Shit Up because as a founder, I feel like every day it's like, didn't know that this could actually happen to us from a flood in our store that flooded every single item within the whole, all of our inventory to a wrong zip code being entered in during a Thanksgiving day order that backed up 10,000 orders. Oh my God. And then customers screaming at you and then you go publicly and apologize to you and they

hate you even more. Like, you know, you can't make it up and it happens and you just have to keep going. I think if everyone who sets out to be a founder can just imagine themselves as those dolls that, you know, you punch and they sort of roll back up. That's what this is. I can't agree more. And I really loved what you said about that being phases to this journey, because I think, and I see this in some founders who are early stages and scaling their business, they're getting to seven figures and they feel like they need to be doing all the things at once. They need to be working on their culture and team building. They need to be growing and

they need to be scaling and doing all the things. But like you said, there's often different phases and I guess you can't put your energy in all places all the time when you're just building up until you've got that team in place. And I want to ask because it sounds like you've had a lot of crazy shit happen to you, which is, is so great to hear because I think from the outside, a lot of people think, oh, when you've got this big business and you've got a team, I'm sure things aren't as stressful, but clearly that's not true. How do you deal with moments like that? Say it's getting hate online or it's orders backing up and getting tons of upset customers. Or like you said, your store getting

flooded and ruining items and probably knowing how much money you've just lost. How do you deal with that? I mean, I think over the years, my dealing with it has changed. You know, the first time I experienced a ton of hatred and bullying online, I was sobbing on my couch at just how horrible that felt. And that was, I guess, maybe 14 years ago. And then when, let's say, I'll take the 10,000 messed up orders example happened, I was like, I'm just going to be honest and real. And I'm going to tell these people I am doing my best. And I'm going to explain exactly what happened. And so I went out onto social and I'm going to explain exactly what happened. And so

I went out onto social and in an email saying, we messed up. We switched shipping providers. You know, there was an error in the technology. This is exactly what happened. I'm so sorry that I've upset your Thanksgiving, your Christmas gifts. I apologize for those who are affected. You're going to be getting a gift from me and just really trying rather than running from the problem and sort of wanting to hide, which is I think in the beginning, what I would want to do is almost like not look at it and not confront it. It's like, okay, we have to go into solution mode. What is the most optimal solution right now? And I always try and approach it with honesty and just being upfront. And I think customers really appreciate that, you know, when you're like, I messed up, sorry, here's what I'm going to do to fix it.

Yeah. And I think at the time as well, things always seem a little bit bigger or a little bit worse than they really are. And it's like, oh my God, I'm getting hate online. This is going to last forever or what have you. But I guess with more experience, you get perspective on that stuff or not able to manage it better. Do you have any kind of routines or rituals or anything that you do to manage stress? For me, I think if I'm in the office and something like that happens, always finding another person or two people to talk to about the problem and sort of rolling the problem over, looking at it, inspecting it from all sides. If I need a break from it, I go for a walk without my phone and I look around and I sort of get my attention out. Other things is sort of like, and I probably only do this when I'm getting my nails done and in the

massage chair as I do this, but I'll sort of close my eyes and visualize almost a Rolodex, like those old school Rolodexes that turn. And I just view like different, what could be a solution to this problem? And I just go through lots of different ones. And I find that rather than me thinking about how shitty the situation is or how bad it is, I'm just like, okay, could this work? Could this work? What about this? And that sort of helps. And then good old fashioned exercise saves me a lot. I love that Rolodex idea. That's genius. I've never heard anyone just talk about that before. Yeah. that Rolodex idea. That's genius. I've never heard anyone just talk about that before. Yeah, it's just a great visual.

Just be like, just toss a bunch of stuff out and or do that with someone else. And you never know, like there is always a solution. Maybe it's not the most pleasant. I'm not saying one time we had a huge contract

that was canceled. So obviously that's not what you want to happen. But you're like, OK, what do I learn from this? What did I do wrong? How could I have done it better? And how do I avoid this happening the next time? Yeah, completely. And what about COVID? Obviously, we're all at home, we're all dealing with this. We were just chatting about this before we came on the podcast. How did that

affect your business? Was there any kind of panic in the beginning or has anything major needed to change? Oh gosh, everything changed overnight. Every single one of our wholesale partners, which was about 70% of our business pushed out, delayed, canceled their orders, not just for us, but for all of their designers. And so we were left with inventory. We were, you know, obviously had planned our year out at that point cashflow wise. And so just had to really become an e-commerce only company and really take the mindshare that existed to service these big partners was most of our days. And so for the first time we got to say, what do we want? How do we want to do this? What's best for us? And so not that I ever wanted COVID to happen, but another silver lining is now we're really thinking about us and we're putting our

brand first versus servicing these other companies. And I think we're going to come out stronger for it. And I think the customer can feel that she can feel that we're more attentive to her, whether it's in our email communications or our content or just my dialogue with her on social. And I think she's just getting closer to us as a company and brand. And we feel the same way about her. So it's been great. It's not been easy at all. It's been the hardest three months of my life and my brother's life and a lot of our staff.

Everyone has four jobs now. And every day is about survival. But I think an entrepreneur has a certain level of scrappiness. And the beautiful part of knowing how to be scrappier and how to start over is it's a skill you can always go back to. And it's a very valuable skill. So when stuff like this happens, you know exactly what it feels like you can go back into survival mode. And you can go back and like, okay, how do we take this and rebuild it back? So it's been great and awful at the same time. Yeah, I think that's a great mindset to have as a founder, because you can look at what you've built and be like, okay, if I've built this once, I can build it again, I know what it takes. So do you think the changes that you've made during

COVID moving to e-comm, that kind of thing primarily, are going to stick after COVID? What do you think is going to be a lasting change for your business? I think a lot of what we're doing now is going to stay. I think that our relationship with future wholesale partners will be just different. I don't think we're ever going to let ourselves get into a situation where someone could just order millions of dollars worth of merchandise and cancel it. I think we're going

to be more careful about how we make sure that if we are going to give attention and time to someone that is a wholesale partner, that internally we're set up to make sure that our site is healthy and thriving and our stores are healthy and thriving and that that's the priority. So I think, you know, when things open up, it'll hopefully just make it easier that we can go back to being a bigger business, but with a lot of how we're operating now sort of rebuilt into the company. And was your mindset when this hit and you realized my cashflow that I mapped out is not going to be the case. I can't have all these distribution channels. Was your mindset, okay, let's find a way to grow through this and still hit revenue goals? Or was it to look at, okay, I just need to do what we need to survive and not be thinking about growth right now? I don't think anyone right now should be thinking about

growth unless they're in a Corona business or Corona adjacent, whether it's hand sanitizers or masks. And if they are in growth mode, they should know that when the population becomes more immune, that their business might shrink. So I think that we as a business definitely didn't plan for growth after this happened. We were like, okay, it's survival mode. We're going to stay alive and we're going to make sure that we stick this out, we learn from it. And we'll worry about growth later. So I can't speak for all companies. But I definitely would say that if you're not in a corona industry, you know, prioritize survival. Yeah, I totally agree. And what about remote working? Was that something your team were already doing before this happened? Or have you had to adjust? And if so, do you have any tips?

Because I'm sure a lot of people listening would love to hear that. For us, we actually moved completely remote once COVID hit. And I don't think we're going to reopen the office. But I know with your business, it's significantly different. So I was one of those people that thought when people were working from home, they were just fucking off and seeing a double feature. And so I was not interested in exploring that for any team members. We had a previous executive within the company who would let her team work from home. And I always was like, they're not working. Let's just all be clear. They're not working. Or if someone was like sick, but didn't want to use a sick day, they'd work from home. And I'm

like, nope, they're getting a sick day because I just don't believe in this. So when COVID hit, and we decided on March 13th to close the office, I think when you're struck with annihilation as a company and the people who want to keep their jobs and they want to see the company through, everyone just worked their asses off and still does. And I have no doubt that anyone's seeing a double feature. And if they are, I don't even care because I know that for my day to go normal, I have to homeschool the kids. I like to cook their meals. I need to take a break in the middle of the day just to get outside. So I know that for someone to stay sane through this, they might have to do that stuff too. But we've actually become closer

as a company because of this. We talk more, we're more coordinated. We have daily calls where we go through every single detail of each other's day. And then we have a company wide one every Friday where it's like the whole company comes together and talks about their plans. So I think that you might not have that touchy feely culture right now, but you can get very close as a team and really just value each other's ability to like keep plowing away, even though times have changed. So for us, there is a world where a lot of us do have to go back to the office, especially the designers and our photo team. But I think we're looking at a smaller office where people can go in if they want. I know I'll be there every day because I do not like working

from home. It is impossible to focus with three children around. So I think that we'll sort of, it's still fluid right now and we're figuring it out, but it'll definitely be, a lot of people will have the opportunity to work from home. Yeah, I think it's gonna be a really interesting shift, but I think a lot of people have realized, hmm, actually people can be productive from home.

And even if they're taking breaks, like you're saying, it doesn't mean necessarily that their productivity decreases. And then one final question before we go, I really want to know how you navigate the idea of burnout. Do you believe in it? And have you experienced it? And if so, how do you make sure that doesn't happen to you?

So I feel like I'm torn on the idea of burnout. Like when I started the company and I worked 120 hours a week. I didn't experience burnout, but I also didn't have social media where I could also have a simultaneous feeling of FOMO of missing out of like, Oh, people are taking breaks. I didn't know that you should do that. Like it just wasn't in the zeitgeist that there was this thing called burnout. And then I feel like we get our cell phones. we're looking at them, we're getting texts, we're getting emails, we're seeing what everyone else is doing. Oh my God, they have a better life than me. And I think that mixed with this always on

has probably led to like the next generation feeling burnout. And so I think it's on this generation to be like, okay, I'm going to put my phone away or, uh, Hey boss, respectfully, my boundaries at night are, I don't answer emails from six to nine or, you know, or once I leave the office, I'll be back online in the morning and pushing back. And believe me, I have a ton of staff that push back, you know, and they're like, I'm offline or it's the weekend. And I don't want to be that person either, you know, that's working like that. So I think that the company culture needs to set that tone. But more people need to push back on that. And it doesn't mean you won't get ahead. It doesn't mean you won't get your raise, do your job, do it well,

work hard, make your allies within your organization. And it doesn't mean you need to like work till midnight every night. And they need to see you sweating for that to happen. Yeah, I agree. And I think being honest about what your boundaries are and still getting your work done a lot of people may want to give the kind of idea that they're working around the clock but actually they might be less productive than that person that's really forthcoming about their boundaries you really never know it's more about what can you get done when you're actually at work. Yeah. And also if you always are exhausted or you're not sleeping or you're working till midnight, like you're, you're not going to be on your toes and on your feet and have the greatest ideas. I'm thrilled

on a Monday, you know, in normal times because I spent the weekend not looking at my email and I'm excited to dive in and it feels fresh versus like this exhaustion of like, Oh, I worked all weekend. Yeah, I totally agree with you. Well, Rebecca, thank you so much for being on the podcast. We're so excited to have you as a guest for our Pitch Your Biz competition as well. So for anyone listening who is going to enter and wants to win that $15,000 for their business, what kind of thing will you be looking for in a business pitch? Have you got any like insider tips you can give anyone? I don't want to see a venn diagram of where your company is and compared to i want to know what makes you unique i want to know that you have traction that you're not just

trying to use this platform as a way to get awareness this is just going to be like a springboard that already helps someone who's figured out something about their business that's great, a customer that's excited, and that you are not just hoping that you're going to be Instagram famous and rich in three months, that you really know that your career is a long-term goal and passion and you don't get to Amazon it or Uber it, that you're really there in it for the long haul. I love that so much. I think a lot of people might think it's that easy

and it's never gonna happen in three months, no matter how much exposure you get. Well, thank you so, so much. Where can everyone find you? You can find me at Rebecca Minkoff on Instagram. And you can DM me, I read everything. You can listen to my podcast, Superwomen with Rebecca Minkoff,

where I interview tons of amazing women in their journeys and their failures more importantly. And I'm on Twitter at Rebecca Minkoff. I love it. Well, thank you so much. I really hope you enjoyed this episode with Rebecca. As I mentioned in the beginning of this episode, Boss Babe has combined forces with lifestyle brand Elle to kick off a high impact partnership with meaning. So together we want to continue to pave the way for women to achieve their own versions of success. As an entrepreneur myself, I know how hard it was in the beginning to have the resources and the guidance to get my first business off the ground. And so our goal with this partnership is to leverage our resources to help inspire women all over the world to follow their dreams. So I want to remind you that the nationwide contest Pitch Your Biz is still open.

Just think about what $15,000 could do for you and your business. So enter to win cash. You can win a home office makeover and tons of Boss Babe courses, resources. It's truly amazing. So head over to bossbabe.com forward slash L to learn how you can submit your pitch today and stay tuned for the latest updates on our partnership as we announce updates, giveaways and an opportunity to work with us.