the bossbabe podcast - 114. How We Scaled Our Ecommerce Business to 7 Figures in 12 Months with Mike & Angie Lee

Episode Date: August 26, 2020

We’ve invited back brother-sister duo and Co-founders of Soul CBD, Mike and Angie Lee, to the podcast for another value-packed episode. The last time Mike and Angie were on the podcast, it was a pre-pandemic world. Fast forward to now, we’re living in a ‘new normal’, and for some anxiety is at an all-time high. Despite these uncertain times, Mike and Angie Lee have scaled their ecommerce business to 7-figures in just 12-months, but they’re doing so much more than that. Through Soul CBD, Mike and Angie are helping people thrive in mind, body, and soul by reducing stress and pain through CBD-formulated products. They are making an impact while making an income.  Tune in as we discuss how Mike and Angie scaled Soul CBD from $50,000 to a 7-figure business. Here’s a hint - it has nothing to do with fancy strategies, paid advertisement, or a magical funnel but rather, the importance of the customer journey, building a community, and starting before you’re ready.  We’re also touching on how to manage stress, anxiety, and inflammation with all-natural alternatives, including CBD-based solutions, breathing techniques, grounding methods, and so much more.   So if you’re ready to kick anxiety to the curb and perform at your peak, this episode is for you.   Links: Sign up for our free 10-day Instagram Challenge: bossbabe.com/instachallenge This episode is sponsored by SOUL CBD. Use code BOSSBABE to get 20% off on SOUL CBD products. https://mysoulcbd.com/ The BossBabe Podcast Ep. 77: The One Thing Missing From Your Evening Routine with Mike and Angie Lee https://apple.co/2FQZmU4  The Worry Trick: How Your Brain Tricks You into Expecting the Worst and What You Can Do About It by David A. Carbonell https://amzn.to/3guhG1V  Follow: @bossbabe.inc Natalie Ellis, @iamnatalie Soul CBD, @mysoulcbd Angie Lee, @angieleeshow Mike Lee, @officialmikelee

So for me, it's understanding and as you mentioned, controlling the controllables of what you're putting into your mind, because only you can control what type of information you're bringing in. So it's really getting selective about how and what type of information you're receiving and if it's serving you. Welcome to the Boss Babe podcast, a place where we share the real behind the scenes of building successful businesses, achieving peak performance and learning how to balance it all. I'm Natalie Ellis, co-founder and CEO of Boss Babe and your host for today's episode.

So before we dive into that, I have been on it this week, just really prepping everything ahead of the Instagram challenge that launches next week. So if you haven't signed up for that, all the information is below. I am really, really excited. And speaking of building businesses using social media. So today we are back for another interview with Mike and Angie Lee, who are the brother and sister duo behind Soul CBD. If you guys have been following me for a while you'll know how obsessed I am with Soul CBD. I post about it pretty much three four times a week and so it only made sense for me to have them back on the podcast and this time I wanted to take the interview in a different direction

because I want all of their e-commerce secrets. To be able to scale an e-commerce brand to seven figures in their first year and multiple seven in their second is so incredibly impressive and I wanted to know everything there is about doing that. If you didn't already know I did have an e-com brand way back when when I was still in university and I did not hit seven figures in my first year at all. In fact my first year I struggled to even get a product made. It was so much went into it. And I was so young. I had no one around me that was doing this. I had nowhere to turn for support and guidance. Social media wasn't really a thing. And really, back then, I wish I'd known what I know now. And so I wanted to have this interview to ask those what

I think are the right questions so that any of you who are listening who want to develop a product or want to build an e-commerce brand, you can have that information. And that having that company back then, I mean, you know, eventually it was incredibly successful and we were shipping to over 60 countries. We're in over 200 stores, but it was a grind to get there. Like I'm talking about hustling, like hustling like crazy the kind of hustling that I don't recommend you guys do because it's exhausting and we did get in the end but like I said I wish I would have had this knowledge beforehand and it was a big reason that I wanted to start Boss Babe because I wanted the community I wanted to learn from experts

and so we started the society to bring in experts not to teach ourselves but to bring in experts that we wanted to learn from and say hey do you want to join this membership it's completely affordable for everyone and be able to learn from people who have been there who've done it and it's a big reason behind the podcast is a big reason between everything we do and so I really love that we did this interview and I got so much from it so we went into that everything you need to know about building and scaling an e-com brand as well as the importance of building community when trying to scale a business with any business but specifically a product-based business that creates supplements you really want to have that know like and trust

factor with your audience and so we get into all of that kind of thing this episode is just filled with so many takeaways that you can start implementing really quickly in your business, whether you're an entrepreneur, a watchpreneur, have a side hustle. This interview is just packed with so much inspiration and motivation. And before we jump into the episode, I actually have a little offer for anyone that's listening and been wanting to try out their products. I've had so many DMs from you guys saying that you want to try Soul CBD. You've been seeing me post about it for about a year and a half now so like I mentioned I do love this brand I really genuinely do and I especially love so get your pen and paper out

if you're gonna get anything I love the peppermint tincture because if you forget to do your CBD before you brush your teeth you can do it afterwards and it's kind of like a little mouthwash so if you do like a lemon and lime flavor after brushing your teeth it's yeah we're not going to do that so the peppermint tincture I like the vanilla gummies they taste amazing and then the dream CBD capsules so I take the gummies or the tincture every night before bed and I get the best sleep of my life but if I'm not sleeping well or I have a lot on or I want to just really get in there and have a deep deep sleep then I will go with the dream CBD capsules. I do these maybe once or twice a week not every day so that should be on your purchase list. All of Soul CBD's products

are grown in the US, organically farmed, gluten-free, they contain zero THC and are tested by a third party lab so if you're looking for any kind of support with anxiety, inflammation sleep, then you really have to check them out. You will not be disappointed. I'm going to list the link below in our show notes. You can learn a bit more about their products and look up the ones that I mentioned. And if you use the code BOSSBABE, you're going to get 20% off your entire order. So jump in while that code still works. So with that, let's jump straight in. And as always, take a screenshot, share your biggest takeaways, because I know you're going to have a lot and tag me at IamNatalie and at bossbabe.inc. And also, do you want to know a little secret since you're listening to this podcast? No one else knows this yet, but I'm just going to let you in. Me and Danielle are thinking

about starting an e-com business. So it has been something we've been talking about for a while, and it is something we're exploring. So I am going something we've been talking about for a while and it is something we're exploring. So I am going to re-listen to this episode with you right now because I want to learn all the things. A boss babe is unapologetically ambitious and paves the way for herself and other women to rise, keep going and fighting on. She is on a mission to be her best self in all areas. It's just believing in yourself. Confidently stepping outside her comfort zone to create her own vision of success. Mike, Angie, welcome back to the podcast. We're excited.

Yeah, thanks for having us again. So we have so much to talk about. We were just talking for like 10 minutes before this even kicked off about all the things we want to cover. And I want to know how you went from 50k to having a seven-figure e-com business in your first year, which is so unheard of. So we're going to get to all of that. But before we do, I just want to talk a little bit about anxiety because I think everyone's anxiety is high right now with COVID and everything that's going on in the world. And I know both of you have experience with it and the product that you have really helps with it. Everyone knows, I swear by SoulCBD. So can we start with just talking a little bit about anxiety and realness and how

people can work through that? Yeah, let's do it. This is probably, I think that's the theme of 2020 is just anxiety. So yeah, Mike, go ahead and kick it off. Yeah. So I was a former professional athlete and performed at a high level and I was a boxer. And so I fought in front of thousands of people and dealt with anxiety and also pain. And so that was really the birthplace of this company was that I was looking for an all natural solution to fighting, pun intended, that anxiety and that pain. And that's how we discovered CBD and discovered the power of hemp and how it activated your endocannabinoid system to really slow down your nervous system. But I think there's so many things that I've learned throughout this

journey and Angie's learned throughout this journey to help with anxiety that we can dive into, whether it's all natural supplements, things like CBD or things like breath work or all these different modalities that we can use that are not prescription painkillers. I mean, I spent years and years. At one point, I was on eight different medications. I think we shared with your audience last time I got diagnosed with autoimmune disease. And so just going through those years in and out of hospitals and on all those medications and antidepressants, anti-anxiety, I just kind of knew for me, another prescription medication was not the answer. And that's not to say that they don't have their place. And there's an amazing abortive element to Western medicine. But for us, both of us have our own unique stories that we'll dive into about how

Western medicine has its place, but wasn't the answer for us. And so that's how we learned about CBD and whether it's breathing exercises and all these different modalities. Yeah, absolutely. And I think during a time like this, when your external world is so unstable and crazy and uncertain, one thing you can control is your internal self, right? And you can control your mind. And so the reason why everyone has so much anxiety right now is because uncertainty is the name of the game right now. We don't know what's going on. And so when you don't know what's going on, we freak out. Humans love certainty. So I think realizing every day, waking up and saying, okay, can I ground myself? Can I take a moment to breathe? Whether that's hardcore breath work like Ben Greenfield does, or it's just a few minutes

to yourself, putting your feet in the grass, just really getting grounded in your truth and in your body, because you can't let the external world get you. And I think honestly, turning off a lot of the news and the external world and just protecting your energy and your space, because the media and the news, of course, will always make everything more exaggerated and all this stuff. So I think it's important to, what Mike always says is control the controllables. And right now, the only thing we can control in this world is our energy and our health and our internal system, because if you don't control that, the rest of it just becomes a shit show. So I love that control the controllables and putting your feet in the grass and grounding. It's probably the most underrated biohack in the world, I think.

I know. And it's free. I just did it right before this call. And that's usually what I do right in the morning is I get movement, hydration, sunshine, and then I ground. And the mornings where I do that before I pick up my phone, before I see what's going on on the news or on Instagram, which Instagram and social media is the new news, right? So before I see all of that and let things come in, so before I have an influx of information or feedback, I first take a second to breathe and that changes everything, right? Yeah, I think that grounding is massive. For me, it's at the beach and I'm lucky enough, we live in California, so I have access to that. But for me, getting in the water and putting my feet in the sand is massive. I even did it throughout my career. We'd have a lot of training sessions out by the beach. But even throughout my career, I started learning these different breathing techniques. And for instance, the 478 technique,

I think we talked about in your last podcast, and just other things that you can do to get outside and slow down that heart rate and slow down that anxiety. But as Angie mentioned earlier, especially with today's day and age of how every time you turn on the news, there's something that will scare the hell out of you. I think one thing that I've done is really shut off the news. And that's not being uninformed. Every once in a while, I'll dip in. But it got to a point for me, especially early on with coronavirus and everything that was going on, that I was monitoring and checking Twitter and Instagram constantly throughout the day. And I noticed my anxiety levels raising. So for me, it's understanding. And as she mentioned, controlling the controllables of what you're

putting into your mind, because only you can control what type of information you're bringing in. So it's really getting selective about how and what type of information you're receiving. And if it's serving you at the end of the day, if constantly checking the news is not serving you, then why are you putting that in your body? It's almost like putting bad nutrition in your body. Well, it's addicting, right? We're addicted to that, to the bad as well. Right. Yeah. And I know your listeners love book recommendations. So a book that changed my life around anxiety is called The Worry Trick by David Carbonell. It in it. Basically, he breaks down the science of worry and how worrying essentially doesn't really do anything. And nine out of 10, what you're worried about

is not actually going to happen. And so he walks you through these exercises of going to the worst case scenario, it's fine, you're still alive. And so it's a really cool book and I think it can help a lot of you guys and it's helped me a lot with anxiety and worry. Thank you, yeah, I'll put the link below.

And I definitely hear you, Mike Mike about like getting lost in social and you're kind of like in autopilot and I heard someone refer to it as just looping you're looping all day going back to your feed and scrolling and one thing that I've started doing which has been really helpful for me is in the middle of the day instead of grabbing my phone just going and laying on the ground taking a few deep breaths and getting out of that looping cycle of, oh my God, I need to be on and checking things, especially as business owners. I think it can be so addicting. Yeah. Yeah. And as I mentioned earlier, that four, seven, eight breathing, you mentioned laying on the ground. That's something I'd love to do throughout the day because at this point now you're constantly, you're checking Slack, you're checking email, you're reading the news, the anxiety levels go up.

So what I like to do is I like to lay down, just like you mentioned, I like to do it on a heating mat just so it helps my back. Dr. Andrew Weil created this thing called 4-7-8 breathing where you inhale through your nose for four seconds, you hold for seven seconds, and you exhale audibly through your mouth for eight seconds. And they've literally done studies on that four, seven, eight. Some people like doing four, four box breathing, whatever it is for you. But that type of breathing modality is something that I did in the dressing room with my strength coach before every single fight, before I walked out of that tunnel in front of 20,000

people and then hopped in the ring on national TV. And it's something I do on a day-to-day basis now before I'm hopping on calls or podcast interviews like this, where I'm slowing down my heart rate and I'm going from that sympathetic to parasympathetic rest and digest on helping out your nervous system like that. So something quick like that can take five minutes and really change the state of your nervous system and help you really digest information at a different rate and just be at a calmer rate. So that's something that I've utilized almost every single day.

I love that so much. And for anyone that wants to hear us talking about that and other routines, I'm going to link our previous episode below because we really got into it. So, okay, let's pivot to life as a business owner, because what you guys have achieved with Soul CBD is absolutely incredible. And the growth you've seen, I mean, everyone listening to this podcast knows how much I love your product. I use it religiously. Before we get into it, though, I do have a question that I just want answered selfishly for myself. So do I need to take a break? I've heard people say you should take a few days off just to reset

your system and then take it. I could take this every single day for 365 days a year. Yeah. Yeah. No, I think the beauty of this compound and the beauty of CBD is there's no toxicity level. And what that means is you cannot overdose on this. And so it's crazy as we even talk about all of our stuff is sourced from hemp, right? But it's crazy that cannabis in general is a Schedule I drug federally. But hemp in the 2018 Farm Bill became legal. So what's beautiful for us is hemp is a plant that is high in CBD, low in THC. And we even go beyond that and we take out the THC. So all of our products are a hundred percent CBD isolate and great for you in that sense where

you have no psychoactive elements. So can you take it every single day without a doubt? And if anything, we encourage that because it'll build up in your system and helping activate those CB1 and CB2 receptors in your endocannabinoid system. You cannot overdose on this. And so that's why right away I mentioned the no toxicity because you can't even say that about ibuprofen or Advil. Right now you can walk into CVS, you can down an entire bottle of Tylenol and die. Literally, you can overdose from Tylenol, Advil, all these over-the-counter medications, but that's not the case with CBD. That's not the case with hemp. And so I think

that the risk-reward of this plant is incredible. Yeah. Let's take a quick pause to talk about my new favorite all-in-one platform, Kajabi. You know I've been singing their praises lately because they have helped our business run so much smoother and with way less complexity which I love. Not to mention our team couldn't be happier because now everything is in one place so it makes collecting data, creating pages, collecting payment, all the things so much simpler. One of our mottos at Boss Babe is simplify to amplify and Kajabi has really helped us do that this year. So of course I needed to share it here with you. It's the perfect time of year to do a bit of spring cleaning in your business, you know?

Get rid of the complexity and instead really focus on getting organized and making things as smooth as possible. I definitely recommend Kajabi to all of my clients and students. So if you're listening and haven't checked out Kajabi yet, now is the perfect time to do so because they are offering Boss Babe listeners a 30-day free trial. Go to kajabi.com slash Boss

Babe to claim your 30-day free trial. That's kajabi.com slash Boss Babe. Yeah and isn't it crazy that it's only just becoming legal? Like that blows my mind when these drugs are sitting in a drugstore that can literally kill you and CBD is only just becoming legal it really blows my mind while we're on it because I'm so interested myself can we talk about a few other more of the benefits because so I just started taking rachitane for my skin which is really bad for your liver so I'm not doing any alcohol I'm just focusing really deeply on detoxing and CBD is even more part of my routine now than it has been because there's no toxicity.

And it really does relax me. It makes me feel really good. Like when you're at the end of the day, you just want a glass of wine. CBD does that for me. And I've already showed you my what it does to my sleep is phenomenal. So what else is it doing for us? Yeah, I think the top three things that we see our customers loving is anxiety, sleep, and pain. You mentioned the sleep, and it's not only just anecdotal evidence now. We now have peer-reviewed studies showing the clinical benefits of CBD in sleep cycles, how it's increasing your REM cycles, people showing from their whoop bands, from their aura rings, how it's literally changing their sleep cycles. And we have a CBD sleep cap that has 25 milligrams CBD with melatonin in it that we just keep getting tons and tons of amazing feedback.

What it's doing is it's activating your endocannabinoid system, which puts your nervous system into homeostasis. And in layman's terms, it's really making you calmer. And it's bringing you from that, as I mentioned earlier, sympathetic to parasympathetic nervous system, which when your body is in that state, right, it's now a time for you to rest, digest, to heal. It's really tough for your body to heal when it's constantly under that pressure. And you're in that autonomic nervous system where you're constantly fighting things off. And whether that's something you have in your mind or it's an actual threat in your body, it doesn't matter. Your body sees perception becomes reality in that sense. So what CBD is doing is helping you calm down and begin to finally heal and finally rest. So that's why so many people are finding that it's

helping from everything from sleep, anxiety, inflammation, because when your body and your nervous system is in homeostasis, your body will start to heal itself. Yeah. I was going to say your sleep cap has more than melatonin and CBD and right. It has a few other herbs in. Yeah, it does. It has L-theanine, it has valerian root, it has maypop. So these are just all natural ingredients found from plants that we've extracted and added to kind of help with that entourage effect. So not only is it just a pure dose of CBD, but it has all those other ingredients that help you relax and get into proper REM cycles. Yeah, I wanted to call that out because it's literally a magic pill. I take CBD every night. I don't take the sleep caps every night, but if I want to have a really good sleep, I take it. And the combination

of everything, it's amazing. But sorry, Angie, go back in. I'm just very excited about this. Oh no, I love hearing that. That's amazing. Yeah. Another thing that we're looking into more is possibly creating more products even around this, but CBD helps a lot with period cramps and menstrual cramps. And so for the ladies listening who are like me, and it's sometimes the worst day ever, that first day of the month, I literally just overdose on our tinctures. There's no such thing as overdosing, but I take maybe two or three droppers of our 1500 milligram and three gummies. And it's taking my pain that can be a nine or a 10 down to a five or a six. And that's amazing.

And I'm super holistic. So for me, I don't want to take medication for my period cramps. And so that's been a lifesaver. And I think more women are now going to be having this discussion around using CBD for their hormones and for menstrual pain. Yeah, I think so too. It just makes me really happy that we are moving towards more natural products like this. happy that we are moving towards more natural products like this so pivoting from that you

guys started with 50k investing in this e-com business which is so different to what either of you have done in the past you both have such different backgrounds and for me I'm so curious because it's so different to anything I do and I know it's a whole different ball game so I want to start understanding how to get an e-com business off the ground and how you manage to turn that it's so different to anything I do. And I know it's a whole different ballgame. So I want to start understanding how to get an e-com business off the ground and how you managed to turn that into seven figures in your first year. Because that is crazy. Yeah. Yeah. I think for us, we started with community first, brand second. And I think that this really resonates probably with you as well, Natalie, that you have such a strong boss babe community that for us, it was the same thing of that me on the side of being a professional

athlete. I developed this community and this trust and Angie doing what she does and being on stage in front of thousands of people in her podcast, she had this community as well. So what we did is we merged these communities and this trust because we weren't just selling, we're selling something that people are putting in their bodies, right? So we needed a community that trusted us already. So I think we hit the ground floor with a little bit of advantage in that and us both kind of building our communities and putting that brand second. And then secondly, the brand, we just really focused.

We didn't cut any corners. We knew that, like I mentioned with the trust earlier, this was something that we were putting in our bodies every single day. And for me, if I get drug tested randomly by WADA before these tests, the World Anti-Doping Agency, and if I popped hot for THC or any other contaminants, that would have huge implications on my professional career. And so we knew that people understood that. And I've never tested positive for a single drug test throughout my entire 10 year career as a professional athlete. So the fact that I could put my name on something and literally we went to the fields, we were in the farms, we were in the labs, we had our hands on every single product. And so I think that that was a differentiating factor for us. The fact that we were so hands-on with this brand and with this product and it really resonated with people. And so that's how we took our initial investment of $50,000 in the website and the product and all these things and really grew the brand overnight. And I think, did we know it have such phenomenal success? I don't think so, but we took a flyer, we took a risk and I'm so grateful

we did. Yeah. It's crazy what you can do with $50,000 and just believing in yourself, right? Because for the women listening who want to start a t-shirt brand, a Etsy shop, any DTC line, maybe a supplement brand, realizing that in full transparency, Mike and I were not experts in cannabis prior to this. We were not experts in the supplement industry. We were just passionate. And we said, let's go. We can figure this out. If we can figure anything out, if we're passionate enough. And so the first step we took is we did hire a mentor or hired a business mentor in the cannabis space, someone who he had been doing it a few years more than us. And we picked up the phone and said, Hey, are you open to helping us out? And he was super awesome, super great. Still our friend of this day who helped us out and gave us some tips here and there. So we didn't know we

were doing you guys. And I hope that's a reminder and will motivate you to start whatever it is you want to start. Because if you're hungry and you're willing to make some courageous phone calls and ask for help, I think you can figure anything out. And we started with zero debt. That was our own hard earned cash that we both had from both of our previous careers. I mean, he's still in the coaching and mentorship space, and Mike is an athlete. So we took 50 grand, put it in there. Really didn't know if we'd ever see that money again. Thank God we did, and it flipped.

But that's just a reminder for you guys. We weren't experts in it. We just willing to figure it out along the way. Yeah, and I think that we were willing to fail. And obviously, my last career, every time I stepped in the ring, I had 22 fights. I was literally risking my life. And so such a dangerous career. So I think that's the one thing we were willing to fail. We were willing to risk it. We've fallen on our face so many times. We've learned through those failures and $50,000 is still a lot of money. But the beauty of today's day and age in 2020 is the barrier to entry is so low, right?

You can create a Shopify landing page for virtually no money. You can find the right manufacturers and have lower MOQs, so you're ordering lower product. So it can be a lot less than $50,000. It can be something that you start to A-B test a couple products with a Shopify landing page and a Stamps.com account. And next thing you know, you're off and running. So that's the beauty of today's day and age of social media is the barrier to entry is so low. It's just, are you willing to risk your name, your reputation, a little bit of capital and test it out? And unfortunately most people aren't, but I think the people that are,

are usually rewarded. Yeah. And you have to be willing to lose money. This isn't some fairy tale where we put $50,000 in and the next thing you know, we woke up and there was a multiple seven figure business. We failed at a lot of things. Our branding wasn't super sexy in the beginning. I liked it, but I didn't love it. But we said, you know what? Ready is a lie. Let's just go. Let's start. Let's start with something. Let's start getting feedback. And so we were willing to have our version one, not be our favorite version. And that is the secret to success, right? Is starting with just something. We put ourselves out there.

And then we got feedback from people on the visual brand, on the feedback on the actual product, obviously. So we fixed formulations. We fixed the visuals of the branding. And you guys, I mean, I've shared this on my stories and I can send a picture to Natalie, our very first version. And then what our version looks like now, even visually, is such a different brand and company within two and a half years. But that's awesome. You want your first draft to be a little sucky, right? You want your first version

to be a little embarrassing because you started. And so I think I'm proud of the fact that we did that. And that's such an important message for anyone listening who wants to get into virtually anything, but especially DTC. It's not like you're an expert and you've got millions of dollars of funding and then you start. That's a very rare scenario for most people. Yeah. And I think I'm paraphrasing, but famous investor and I think it was co-founder of Twitter, right? Reid Hoffman has that famous saying, if you're not embarrassed of your first product launch, you waited too long. Maybe that's not the exact quote, but the idea is there that if you're waiting for this perfect moment, you're never going to get it.

And we haven't even hit that perfect moment. We have issues daily where you're putting out fires. It's what you do as an entrepreneur. Mike's a firefighter. I'm now a firefighter. Mike, the other day in the kitchen was, I feel like I'm just literally a firefighter. I'm out. What else would I go do? Would I go be a trainer at SeaWorld?

Yeah, go ahead. That's Danielle. She's the boss babe firefighter so she gets it all right I hope you enjoyed the episode so far stay tuned as we share a bit of info about who supported this episode okay listen up because I am doing something that I have never ever done before I am hosting a completely free 10-day video challenge and I am going all out with this one, seriously. I want to introduce you to 10 days to monetizing your small audience and it's all kicking off on August 31st and there is a place with your name on it. I'm going to be showing you exactly how to monetize your small audience on social media and training you for 10 days straight

for free. Like I said, I've never ever done this before. This is for you if you have less than 10,000 followers, are struggling to attract your ideal clients, and are really unsure how to sell to or monetize your current audience. My guess is that you're constantly on the follower roller coaster, you're pushing so hard yet making no sales, or in fact you might just be neglecting social media completely because it's so frustrating you might have absolutely no idea what to post or when you do end up posting you're not getting any engagements you're like what's the point and you're hearing all these people say you can monetize your audience and you're like show me

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So did you just open up Google and type in how to find a distributor? How did that process first start? Yeah, walk them through the steps, Mike. Literally the first five steps. First of all, I started taking the product because I was lucky. I had a friend who worked for one of the biggest manufacturers. At the time they were in Kentucky, they were a hemp manufacturer. They produced a ton of different CBD products. So he started sending me some different products. I tried Charlotte's Web.

I tried Metera. I tried all these different companies. And some of them worked, some of them different. Did not. But I was lucky that I had a friend that was in the business. And so we started testing out a few different manufacturers. And honestly, I started Googling things. I started watching things on YouTube.

I started diving in and learning and researching. And we started doing small MOQs, minimum order quantity. We started doing small MOQs and ordering small batches and testing out and just doing a ton of our own personal R&D and putting our own investment, our own capital into that. And once we found the right ingredient, formulation, product that we loved, that's when we started looking into it. We hired a website designer. We initially started on a platform called WooCommerce and we built the website and we launched it. And just, I'll never forget sitting there and literally buying the label machine.

We were packing it out of Angie's apartment. We were in our little side bedroom and the first order came in. I'll never forget when our first order came in and we were like, oh, my God, we don't even know who this person is. And we printed the label out and we shipped it. And it was such a big moment where this is our first order. And now it's crazy to think two years later, we're in a huge 200,000 square foot facility doing fulfillment distribution in the Midwest. And it all started in your little side bedroom where I spent the first three to four months printing labels and putting them on the stamps.com order. Literally yourself sticking them on. Yeah. Google's your

best friend, you guys. It's crazy right now what you can learn, right? Googling so much is the secret. And yeah, I think it's been interesting too is it wasn't perfect, but we were willing to keep showing up. So I think another thing we definitely did was we listened to our customers and Natalie, we talk about this a lot. We're so proud of our customer service, right? Even as we've grown and now we have multiple people managing our customer service accounts, being hands-on in the beginning and us literally sitting in her bedroom, labeling product and printing stamps.com orders. We got to know our customers.

We got to know what they liked, what they didn't like, and really understanding and having those touch points with our customers, no matter how big we get, has been a huge secret to our success. And we're finally going to have these awesome, really sick boxes now for delivery. And I remember being in the LA apartment. I said to Mike, Mike, can we have some really pretty boxes for shipping? I really want some really cool boxes. I want a cool experience because when you're in DTC, you guys, the boxing, or I should say the unboxing experience is a huge part of the customer experience. It's a huge emotional aspect of their experience of experiencing your product. Right. And so it is a big deal where when you buy a course and things like that, you have a landing page. That's the customer opening the thing or checking out, but

we didn't have cool boxes yet. And I remember Mike saying, one day we will, okay? Let's just wait. Let's get feedback. Let's get more money coming in. And then we'll have some really cool boxes. So we're finally coming out with some sick boxes. And I'm excited because I feel like I've waited two and a half years for some sick boxes. And I'm ready for it.

Yeah, you sound like me and Mike sounds like Danielle. I'd be like, Danielle, we need the box. And she'd be like, just wait. Just be patient. Patience is the game. Mike's so good at that. Mike is so good. He's like, Ange, it's fine.

Just wait. I'm like, no, we need this. We need this. We need this. And it's like, I think that money just doesn't exist, right? And so I'm like, whatever it'll cost, whatever else, let's just do it. And Mike's obviously more logical about it. Yeah, but I think it's a great kind of brother- team where we I need people like Angie, I need these big thinkers that are willing to

jump into the deep end to see if they can swim first. And then she needs people like me to get the logistics and the financials and really see if it's a viable option for us. So it's been really fun. I love that so much. And I also love what you said about customer service. I agree. And it's something that we index are really heavily on at Boss Babe. We love Zendesk and we go out of our way to do that because that's what really sets you apart. And we talk about it all the time,

but it costs you way more to acquire a new customer than to sell to a repeat customer. And the way you're going to get repeat business and grow a really sustainable long-term business is a good product and good service. And I know fundamentally, that's the thing that you guys have nailed. I was a paying customer from very, very early days. So I love knowing that you guys shipped it to me from your apartment. Let's talk a little bit about those sales because making sales with a physical product and e-com business is very different to a service-based

as a coach or a consultant. It's a very different to a service base as a coach or a consultant. It's a very, you get, you got a freebie, you got your photos going on, you've got ads. How is e-com different to that? Yeah. Well, e-com is an entirely different world. And what we're seeing now is the world is really pivoting. And I think the DTC business is exploding for us. We've had such a high conversion rate on our website because I believe in our branding and I believe in our community, right? So we have a lot of warm leads to the website. And I think that's been very important for us to have such high conversion rate. And we've had months of almost an 8% conversion rate, which people in the e-commerce and DTC

world know that's incredibly high. So, and a lot of that was done organically. It was just until about a year ago that we started paying for paid search of programmatic and display on Google. But for us, especially with CBD, it's, our hands are tied in a sense because of regulations, as you mentioned. So for us, it's getting creative and how can we market and how can we get people to the website and converting when we can't market the same way as other physical products. Yeah. So we've really had to double down on word of mouth marketing, which is essentially affiliate marketing. So having strong affiliates who we love and trust and who are obsessed with the product and then having them tell their communities and their tribes. And that's how

I've done a lot of my organic marketing myself. And so we applied a lot of that to soul and having a little bit of handcuffs around the legalities with ads, we had to do that. And it's incredible what we've done without really pumping a ton into ads yet. And that's just fascinating to me. And it just shows for you guys listening, like building the power of building a brand first and a product second is the smartest thing you can do. So if you're listening to this and you have this idea for a physical product, and if you can give it a year of just putting out free, awesome content, building a community, building trust, starting the podcast, whatever that may be, and then launching a product, you're going to see such greater success than if you just started with a product. So for me, similar to you, Natalie, my audience was so warm. They were so

hot that the minute we started talking about it, they were, of course, I'm going to take it because I trust Angie and they should, because I only promote things I actually believe in. And so if you guys can start building that community, it doesn't need to be a hundred thousand or a million people, but starting to build what I call your first a thousand true fans who love what you do, and then launching this physical product or working on the physical products simultaneously while you're building that trust, game over, because it's a trust game when it comes to physical products, especially in the wellness space, people are putting this in their body.

And so you have to really trust the founders and know that they actually care about the ingredients. And so I think I was telling Mike the other day, I think that's why I don't think that is pretty much why our conversion rate on our website is so high is because when Susan's getting to the website, she's not cold. She's not like, Oh, what is this? She's like, Oh, I already know of Mike and Angie, or I've already heard about this through my best friend who takes it and loves it. I'm going to go order. And so that's a dream situation in e-commerce. And now we're getting so big though, that obviously we have a lot of cold traffic going there too, but it's interesting. It's play the affiliate marketing, warm market game and the

branding game. And then you play the direct sales game. So it's really brand versus direct, right? And I'm in the brand game. So this is a little bit more direct for me. But again, I think you got to play both in e-commerce brand and direct brand and direct just going back and forth. Right? Yeah. And I also really think that one of the reasons why our conversion has been so great is we have a very clear website, right? So if anybody's starting an e-commerce brand and they want to get in the DTC world, you got to realize that people's patience is so low right now. And so when they get to a website, you need to tell them exactly what pain point you're addressing right off the bat. It needs to be a beautiful, clear,

clean website that right off the bat tells me, how are you going to solve this problem? The reason I came to this website, right? And if I have to click three times just to get to a product, or if I have, I don't have a clear call to action right there on the website, you're going to lose a customer. The bounce rate is going to be massive. So in order to really limit that bounce rate, I think you have to have a clear pain point that you're solving right off the bat so people understand why am I on this website? Most importantly, why do I want to stay on this website? So that's been really a back and forth for us in learning and understanding that ideology. And when it comes to sending traffic, sending leads, especially without ads, what has been a real needle mover for you guys well i think a lot of the organic

traffic has come from angie's audience and my audience and us doing shows like this and getting the word out a big needle mover for us is us being the face of the brand so many big brands are out there and much bigger than us but you don't have a face behind it, right? And you feel, oh, if I don't like the product, can I trust it? Who can I turn to? But Angie and I are always in the DMs. We're talking to our customers. As I mentioned earlier, that customer satisfaction is so important for us. So I think that that's been a differentiating factor for us. People understanding that when they get to the website, oh, there's a family run team. My mom is head of customer service. Me and Angie are running the business day to day. So they know that they have someone they can trust and they can turn to. And I feel like with the big companies, you just don't have that anymore.

Yeah. You have to give a shit about every single customer, especially in the beginning when you only have five a month or three a week or whatever that may be, because that's how everybody starts. Nobody starts with millions of customers. You have to give a shit about every single customer replying back. I mean, we have a few customer service people who are literally on it every single day, all day long. And that speaks volumes because then they will email back and say,

wow, I'm going to recommend this to my aunt or my friend because you actually cared. And you know, the bottle, something happened or little things here and there. I don't even want to know what they deal with on a daily basis. Just that's the name of e-commerce. So it's just actually caring. I think it's funny. I mean, this is the most unsexy, but most important business advice that you'll

ever hear is give a shit, care about your customers more than anything. And you'll build a multi million dollar business. And you know this, Natalie, you guys care about your people and your community. And eventually one day you wake up and you realize that caring really paid off. So, and that's always what increases the LTV people in e-commerce always talk about the lifetime value of a customer. And that is one of the most valuable things, metrics that you can track and how you're going to increase LTV is that customer service. There's a bunch of different metrics that help with that. But what we found is that customer service has been massive for increasing LTV. And I think that's been a huge driver for us. I love that so much. And what about email marketing when it comes to

this kind of business versus say a service-based or coaching business? How has your email marketing differentiated? Is it a different strategy? Is there similarities? Interesting. Yeah, it's interesting because I'm in more of the brand space versus the direct space. So our emails, I would say, are a little bit more what you would call direct. So for you guys listening, there's direct marketing, which is obviously immediate sales. You're directly selling them. And this is usually things that are paid and funnels and things like that. And then brand marketing is where there is maybe not direct ROI right away.

You're just getting the brand and the message out there. Educating. And you're just getting the brand and the message out there. Educating. And so, and you're just educating, right? And so our emails are definitely very educational, but definitely probably more direct, but it's been awesome. I would say our email is a big part of our sales. We have a team that's working on that

and we have writers who do that. And we definitely put a lot of intentionality behind that and realizing that people's emails are really delicate. And so you have to put love and effort into that. So we've done a lot in email marketing for sure. Yeah. I think some of our success with email marketing and growing that list has been a combination, as Angie mentioned, not just having sales and constantly people looking to our emails for sales, but being thought leaders and education leaders in the space. So we've really had a hybrid right now in our email list of educating our customer,

whether it's about CBD or it's about health and wellness. A lot of our emails now are about how to improve your sleep cycles and things that are outside of just CBD. Because if people are just turning to the sole CBD email list for just sales, we're not going to get the same kind of customer. We're just going to get someone who's bargain hunting and that doesn't increase our LTV. So for us, it's that combination of education, as Angie mentioned, and building that brand and that community. We do things like weekly IG lives and we have doctors on our emails and doctors on our IG lives talking about a whole wide array of health issues. So it's a combination of that education versus direct selling. Yeah. Yeah. That makes total sense. And I love how you mentioned it can be more direct.

I've heard that as well. Like that customer journey might be a little bit shorter. And then when it comes to affiliates, you guys really have crushed this and I get your emails and the way that you have built a community around affiliates who are just such big advocates of the product is amazing. Do you have any insights on affiliate marketing? Yeah. So it's something we're actually refining right now and we're continuing to grow because I am, I mean, you know, Natalie, I'm a full-time affiliate marketer myself. And so the other side now I'm like, okay, what is it like to manage affiliates or other people promoting my things now? And it's interesting because more than ever, women want to make money from home and they want great ways to make

commissions and similar to network marketing, it's being part of a community, right? So we are similar in the fact that they're obviously getting a commission for the product, but there's not the network marketing integration of it. But I think what's been really great for us is finding targeted people. So it's not about finding the girl with the most followers. It's not about finding a butt model in LA who's got 2 million followers, but she doesn't convert or she doesn't even like CBD. It's about finding the micro influencers. One of our gals that does the best and did for the last few years is someone who doesn't have a massive audience, but she showed up on YouTube and her people trusted her because she's real, she's authentic, and she's genuine. And so when she

announced that she was partnering with Solar, she just brought up that she loves CBD one day, people bought immediately. So again, going back to building the brand, building the community, building that trust, we are looking for people who you don't need a million followers. You could have 10,000, 5,000, but they love you. They trust you. You're interested in wellness, holistic health, or you're an entrepreneur who loves biohacking. We're trying to find more targeted people versus just throwing money and sponsoring women who have the most followers. Because you know this, Natalie, it's not about always more followers. It's about the quality of followers and the quality of their engagement. So that's been huge for us as partnering with people who genuinely are obsessed with our product because that obsession then

translate into sales and it's just more organic for them and for us and it feels better. So we're now on the hunt to find even more partnerships that just are authentic and men and women who just really genuinely love it. And it's aligned with their message already versus us trying to just pay a bunch of people where you'll see this a lot on Instagram, right? Companies will just throw a ton of money at a bunch of random influencers, and they're all holding the protein shake or the skinny tea. And it just starts to get cheesy. And we don't want that. We rather play slow and steady and it be authentic. So that's really what we're trying to figure out now, because I believe that affiliate marketing is the name of the game. It's getting people to be your best folks models.

They're people who are excited for you and it's a win-win. They get paid and they're your street people who are spreading the word. So I think nothing's greater than the power of affiliate marketing. I agree. And I think unless you're Kylie Jenner, Kim Kardashian, authenticity wins the day. Kylie Jenner might be listening to Boss Babe, Mike. Well, listen, I mean, she could be. I mean, listen, you're someone like Kylie Jenner, you move the needle because of how famous you are. No one can deny that. But there are such rarities in the fact that authenticity wins the day, like you just mentioned. And those micro-influencers can move the needle for you and move the needle, not just in terms of ROI, but brand identity so much more than an obvious paid sponsorship of someone that has millions of

followers if they're not actually interested. Yeah. So I would say if you're starting a DTC brand right now, direct to consumer, I would find your first three to five people who can be your biggest champions, your biggest spokesmodels, the people who love it. This could be your cousin. This could be a gal you found on Instagram who you've become friends with. This could be an influencer who you're open to paying and taking some of the funds. In our situation, we use a lot of our marketing funds for this because we weren't putting it into ads. So I remember one day saying to Mike, listen, we're either going to put this into affiliates and sponsorships, or we're going to put it into ads and we can't run ads. So we better

put it into affiliates and women who can market it and men who can market it for us. So find your first three to five trusted people, get them to be your biggest fans, your biggest advocates, make sure they're educated in the product. They're passionate, they're genuine, and then slowly watch it grow. But that's our biggest thing right now that we're actually focusing on. So it's a really good question because there is no one way to do it. But finding a community that will spread the word for you, my gosh I mean you know the greatest sales is getting people to sell it for you you don't even have to sell it anymore people are selling it for you because it's so great yeah and gone are the days where you just post once and you sell out like it doesn't happen like that people need to see you talking about something multiple times like 7 to 11 times

before they'll make that purchase decision and we we're kind of the same. We've never gone the traditional route of influencer marketing. I think it's really powerful when it's done right, but it's not just that you have them post once and it's a winner. It's how can you put together really long-term partnerships? Like you said, the influencer really believes in the product and they're not just saying, here's my code, buy this now. It's like, no, I use this on a daily basis. Here's why I love it. Here's why I think you'd love it. And I think that's the secret really. What do you guys think about podcast advertising? It's something we are considering getting into. We don't see it a lot with service-based businesses, but we are starting to think through it. Yeah. I think it's brilliant obviously being in the podcast game myself too. And I believe that this medium right now that we're on

is one of the most intimate mediums there is. You're only using one of your senses. You build a friendship with people. You feel like you're on the phone with them. I mean, there's podcasters that I think are my best friend and they don't know me yet. Joe Rogan, if you're listening, you're my bestie. Okay. It's beautiful. It's one of the coolest mediums because it's multidimensional in the fact that you could be multitasking, right? There's not a lot of other mediums where you can be cleaning your house and in your car on a road trip and also be taking an information education. So I also believe that podcast listeners are people who, and they've done stats on this, podcast listeners are people who are interested in personal development in the wellness and business. Podcast listeners are people who are interested in personal

development in the wellness and business space. They're people who are usually buyers, which is great. They're interested in actually taking their life to the next level. They don't just want free content all the time. So we have found that sponsoring podcasts is phenomenal because it's a medium. Unlike YouTube, YouTube's great because you have SEO, you've got Google and so many benefits to YouTube, but sometimes you're just tabbed into YouTube. It's the World Wide Web. You've got 12-year-olds watching it who just want to be trolls and don't want to buy anything, and they're not interested in developing personally.

So what's cool about podcasts is the demographic seems to be a higher caliber of people who are interested in actually taking their wellness and their business to the next level. I think it's a great medium for it, for sure. Yeah. And if I could, one piece of advice in terms of the ROI side of podcast ads, we've seen some perform well, we've seen some perform amazing, others that don't do that well.

I think that as a brand, if you have a brand and you're reaching out to these podcasts, it can't be completely cold, transactional deal. It needs to be something where, not only maybe a warm lead or whatever it is, but you have a conversation with that podcaster because people, once again, authenticity wins the day. If you're just paying for podcast ads and you can tell in the voice of the podcaster that maybe it's something they just got paid to do, or they don't talk about it organically necessarily,

and they don't have that relationship with the brand, we found much lower ROI on that. So for us, like you, for instance, Natalie, you're someone that has loved the product and talked about it organically, and we've developed a relationship with you. I think that the listeners tend to resonate with that more because it's something that you can talk about organically here and there in addition to the podcast ad. So I think that listeners and buyers are smarter than ever. And so they can kind of weed through the bullshit in that sense. And so really develop that relationship with the podcaster that you're putting ad money towards. And yeah, Natalie's right. People have to hear something seven to

10 times. Like Natalie said, that's so true. I have people who I've been partnered with Organifi, for example, and I know you are as well, Natalie. I've been partnered with them for four and a half, five years, literally five years. And I still have women reaching out saying, Hey, I see you love this green juice. What is it again? Oh my gosh, I need to try it. Or what's your code? I'm like, I've only been talking about it for five years. So people need to feel that consistency. And they will literally say in the messages, I can tell you actually love it because you've been sharing about it for five years. I trust that this is something that,

okay, I'm ready. I need a green juice. And so I think that says it all. People aren't necessarily always ready the first time they hear it and that's okay. Maybe it shouldn't take five years, but yeah, you gotta warm them up a bit and you've gotta talk about it in different fun ways.

I love it. Well, I appreciate you guys being so transparent about it because it is a whole different ballgame to get into e-com. And I know there's a lot of people listening to the podcast that have been asking me these specific questions. So I'm really, really grateful that you opened up so much about it. Where can everyone find you? I've put all of the links for Soul CBD down below, but would love for you to let everyone know how they can find you, get've put all of the links for Soul CBD down below, but would love for you to let everyone know how they can find you, get on your newsletter. And then also I want to know from each of you what your favorite product is because I know what mine is. Okay. Awesome. So

you guys can come say hi at Angie Lee show on Instagram or angielee.com. And of course at my Soul CBD. And yeah, we're always here to chat. I answer my DMs, say what's up, send me a video message, voice message. You like weird, you'll like my Instagram. Mike's a little bit more serious on his, but you can go say hi to him as well. Yeah, I'm at official Mike Lee. And like Angie said, we're at MySoulCBD. So feel free to DM us or let us know what you think.

I have two favorite products. One is our alert caps. So our alert Caps have all natural caffeine in them, as well as a couple other ingredients and with CBD. And I also love our Watermelon Mint Tincture. I take our 1500 Watermelon Mint Tincture every single day. And I know that we have some of the best flavors out there. That's one of our differentiators. We've worked so hard on these flavors. So Watermelon Mint is my favorite. What about you, Ange? Our goal is to be the best tasting CBD on the planet. So we're making that happen. Number one,

raspberry gummies by far, literally to die for. And number two, the peppermint CBD or peppermint tincture, because I added two cacao drinks and coffee. So it's this Christmassy pepperminty, blissful, makes me feel like a kid again, delicious elix this christmasy pepperminty blissful makes me feel like a kid again delicious elixir drink so peppermint and raspberry gummies i didn't even know that about you guys but wanting to be the best tasting cbd yeah oh my god it's so true so my favorites are the vanilla gummies oh my god i can't get enough i have those before bed and then yeah i agree with you mike the watermelon tincture, so good. Oh, my God.

I love how you say watermelon, Natalie. It's so cute. Or say watermelon. Watermelon. Watermelon. There it is. With the peppermint. I have both watermelon and peppermint.

I actually think I have lemon and lime, too, because I'm just a fangirl. But my hack, if I forget to take watermelon before I brush my teeth, then I do peppermint after I brush my teeth, then I do peppermint after I brush my teeth. Oh, yeah. It's a little breath mint. It's a breath mint. And I know you love elixirs too.

You're an elixir girl. So try peppermint in your morning elixir and it's like Christmas. It's just so... Oh, it is? Yeah, it's so great. Just a little bit of peppermint in your cacao. Yeah, I actually... Stephen had a smoothie the other day when we were away and they made it with banana

and they put handfuls of fresh mint in there and he loved the flavor so I wonder if I can put the mint tincture in instead and get that mint chocolate chip kind of oh yeah I'm gonna try it you know I'm gonna go do now I just had it it's so good whenever friends come over I'm like try this they're like oh my gosh it's Christmas in your mouth I'm like I try this. They're like, oh my gosh, it's Christmas in your mouth. I'm like, I know. Okay, well, thank you guys so much for being on here. I'm massive, massive fan of the product. And for everyone listening, I've put all the links below,

discount codes, everything that you can get. So when you go, I really recommend stocking up on a few different products because once you end up getting one, you'll be hooked. I know it. So thank you so, so much for being on here. Oh, thank you, Natalie. We appreciate you. thanks for being such a big support and we love you guys if you loved this episode please subscribe download a few more and please leave us a review

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