the bossbabe podcast - 117. How I Used Instagram to Build My Multi-Million Dollar Food Business

Episode Date: September 7, 2020

We’re joined by Olivia Wollenberg, CEO and Founder of Livia’s Kitchen, a vegan food company that creates indulgent, plant-based snacks. In fact, Livia’s Kitchen revolutionized the sweet snacking market in the UK for being the first of its kind: a sweets brand dedicated to delivering on deliciousness as much as it is nutrition.  Before Livia’s Kitchen, Olivia was studying to become a neuroscientist and had already invested six years into her academic career. A sudden spark of entrepreneurial inspiration struck when she was diagnosed with food intolerances and was unable to find indulgent treats that weren’t packed with additives and preservatives. Olivia identified a gap in the market for indulgent treats with a nutritional twist. Having the drive and determination to be the first to fill this gap, Olivia embarked on her entrepreneurial journey to finding success by building her food empire.  The road to success wasn’t always sweet, but Olivia’s willingness to learn, openness to embracing criticism, and vulnerability to be transparent about her strengths and weaknesses helped her to build resilience in the face of rejection and objections. Tune in to hear how Olivia built her business from the ground up, from driving around to drop off products, to pitching her treats to Selfridges (one of the biggest chains of high-end department stores in the UK), and using social media to build her empire. She’s also lifting the lid (and very transparent) on her experience raising money as a young female entrepreneur.   So, if you’re looking to disrupt the market and lead by example, this episode is for you.  Links: Get 50% off your first order with Care/of. Use code BOSSBABE50. takecareof.com/p/bossbabe50 Shop Livia's: https://livias.co.uk/ Follow: @bossbabe.inc Danielle Canty, @daniellecanty Olivia Wallenberg, @oliviawollenberg Livia’s, @livias

I was always committed to everything I did. So from day one of saying I'm going to be the person who creates these indulgent, delicious treats, I was adamant that I wasn't going to fail. And even when people were telling me gluten-free is a fad and vegan is just so niche and it's not going to catch on. I was like, you wait, I'll show you. Welcome to the Boss Babe podcast, a place where we share with you the real behind the scenes of building successful businesses, achieving peak performance and learning how to bounce it all. I'm Danielle Canty, president and co-founder of Boss Babe and your host for this episode. Now today I am interviewing Olivia Wallenberg,

founder of Olivia's Kitchen, a company that has revolutionized the sweet snacking market in the UK. Now Olivia's Kitchen, as we hear so often, was actually born from its founder Olivia trying to solve a problem that she personally faced all of the time because she was actually suffering from a variety of food intolerance issues and she really struggled to find indulgent treats that were actually made with natural ingredients and that's how she went on to discover a clear gap in the market that she wanted to fill. In this interview Olivia keeps it very real regarding her entrepreneurial journey. We all know it's full of ups and downs and Olivia shares stories about how she had to drive around to drop off products to influencers to facing rejection over and over

again and actually overcoming objections and problems on a daily basis and what I love most about this interview is Olivia was also very transparent about the challenges that she faced raising money as a young woman. I've touched on this a few times in past interviews but I feel as though these conversations around women raising money are not had enough. So along with talking about where to begin when you want to raise money, the difference between crowdfunding and angel investing, talking about Olivia's personal journey of raising money, without even a slight dec add, we also spoke about how the experience of a man raising money. So, so much to cover here. I think you're going to really enjoy it. And if that

wasn't enough, we also discussed what a huge tool Instagram marketing played in Olivia's Kitchen, becoming the UK's fastest growing free-form treat brand with products in 5,000 UK stores. And you know we love a little bit of Instagram, so we're going to be lifting all the lids on that. Now, Olivia is real and more, like I said, and in this interview, you are going to see her unapologetic ambition really shine through. Trust me when I say you're going to leave this interview feeling powerful and ready to tackle anything that comes your way. And as always, I really would love for you to share your screenshots. So tag myself at Danielle Canty and tag at bossbabe.inc. A boss babe is unapologetically ambitious and paves the way for herself and other women to rise, keep going and fighting on. She is on a mission to be her best self in all areas.

It's just believing in yourself. Confidently stepping outside her comfort zone to create her own vision of success. Welcome, Livia, to the Boss Babe podcast. I am so excited to have you on here because Nati and I have personally been following your entrepreneurial journey for quite some time. So it feels just really amazing to bring you on here and allow you to share your experience over the last few years as you've been building such an amazing company with our listeners because I know they're always excited to discover and learn from ambitious women. So welcome to the podcast. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. So right from the beginning, I love giving people a little bit of a story.

For those of our listeners who are not aware from you because we have listeners from all over the world and your business is based in the UK. Do you want to just share a little bit about Livy's and how that was born? Yeah, absolutely. So Livy's is a brand that specializes in creating the most indulgent sweet treats, but with a twist. So everything we do is plant-based it's always vegan always gluten-free dairy-free and always natural so we never use any additives and preservatives but it's all about indulgence and satisfying those sweet cravings and never ever compromising on taste so I came up with the idea when I myself was diagnosed with intolerances to pretty much everything under the sun, which is now about six years ago. And at the time I was studying

neuroscience, very, very much committed to pursuing a career in pediatric neuropsychology. So that's working with children with brain injury. And I reached a crossroads with studying. I'd been doing it for coming up to six years. And I began to question whether it was the right thing for me, pursuing a career in academia. I found it quite lonely and I felt quite isolated sometimes. And at the same time as having those questions about my career, I was then diagnosed with intolerances to wheat dairy lots of other things like garlic onion and it was not fun to my friend at that time I really couldn't go out to eat or do anything fun at all and I realized very very quickly that there was nothing at all in the market that was

free from all of those things that I had to stay away from, but that actually tasted good. There was, coming into the market in the UK, there were lots of data nut bars and energy balls, but those weren't things that you really wanted to dunk into a cup of tea. It felt really nostalgic and indulgent. And I was all about full on frosted chocolate cupcake and jam filled doughnut and I loved having my treat time at tea time and there was just nothing that I could have I think the US was always far ahead of us and I had visited US once or twice a year and I had seen that vegan plant-based gluten-free was really huge in the US but it wasn't so much in the UK at this time. So I really struggled to find treats that I could eat. So instead of going on a search, I actually decided that I could solve the problem myself. And that's what I did. So in my parents kitchen,

I was still living at home with my parents I started experimenting trying to bake things with all the ingredients I could eat and actually realized that it was pretty easy and straightforward because you're using such simple natural ingredients and you can make things taste really really good very easily I love that because that is such a boss babe move to be like hey I need this it doesn't exist you know what I'm gonna build a business based on it why not I absolutely love that yeah I'd always been someone who just I can't do anything by half so when I was studying neuroscience I had to study for 15 hours a day I had to get the best grades I was always committed to everything I did so from day one of saying I'm going to be the person who creates these indulgent

delicious treats but with a nutritional twist I was committed to it from the very first second and I was adamant that I wasn't going to fail and even when people were telling me gluten-free is a fad and vegan is just so niche and it's not going to catch on I was like you wait I'll show you I love that such a great attitude as well to be like no where there's a will there's a way so there's a couple of things that I just really want to double tap on because I think these are some key things that you've mentioned and one of those is like obviously your company was born because you had that problem and because you wanted to solve it I hear that but there was something that you said where you saw the US

was ahead you'd seen companies out there and I think this is a big thing that a lot of women who are thinking about their businesses and they're not really sure what to do they know what they want to have a business and maybe they have a passion towards something. But actually looking at what else is out there in other countries and doing bits of market research is so key. So once you'd seen this happening in the US and was like, OK, what's not happening in the UK? Did you go in and do more investigation into those companies that you saw? Because one thing we get asked is like okay who do you look up to you would like to be like and I think that's something that is really just

a message to bring back to a lot of female entrepreneurs it's like looking in the markets is so so important yeah absolutely even now today I would say there aren't many companies that we directly similar to so in the US I got a lot of my inspiration from the healthier restaurants that I was going to I spent a lot of time in LA and you'll know that you can go anywhere pretty much and you can order the gluten-free version or the plant-based version and that was just so new to me from being in the UK and I realized that actually what was so appealing about those dishes was that they weren't so scary they weren't like a green kale spirulina shape it was a pizza but with a cauliflower crust and all of these things that felt really

nostalgic and recognizable but done in a different way and so that's where I got the idea to keep coming up with treats that didn't feel so different and almost scary that would scare most mainstream customers off but actually to come up with something that they recognize and even loved and have eaten all their life but that's made in a different way so I did loads of research into how those things were made but there wasn't actually at the time they said a company that was the one that we looked up to as such but in a way that gave me more freedom to create it myself I think when I do talk sometimes we sometimes talk about role models and aspiring one particular company and I do think that sometimes that can actually hold you back because you're trying too much to be that

one company that you look up to whereas if you go into it and you say there is a problem here and I'm solving the problem and you're very open to how you're going to solve that problem I think you give yourself a better chance of standing out and being unique. I love that. So true. So let's take it back to got the idea in your mom's kitchen, making these treats, etc. Yeah, what next? Oh, gosh, those first few weeks, even I mean, I break it down into days and weeks then because every single day was so important. And it was madness. Honestly, I wish we had had a video in the corner of my parents' kitchen just so you could see what went down.

It was chaotic. So the first thing was deciding what product I was going to launch. So I wanted to be known for something. I think when you know one really and you're just starting out you have to have a product that catches on and I decided that that product was going to be a crumble so for in the UK everyone will know what crumble is in America it's the equivalent of like a cobbler an apple cobbler it's a very very nostalgic well-known pudding and that I was going to create with a twist but I came up with an amazing recipe for them and then I was like okay these taste really good I started giving them to friends and family everyone was like oh my god how do you make those just eight ingredients normally

they have like 25 if you buy them from a store and lots of additives and preservatives everyone was amazed but I was like okay this is great but now what so I had a great recipe but I had no idea how to then start going about selling it I had no idea about business fundamentals so I enrolled myself onto a business course at UCL which was the university that I went to in London. They did a course which they called the Entrepreneurathon, which was an eight-week fast-track MBA. And that's where I learned about fundamentals of business, cash flow and forecasting, and there's finance and supply and all of the different areas that you would need to start thinking about as you grow a business. And even even today I still bring out notes that I made in those early days of course and I always been someone from day one to recognize what my strengths and my weaknesses are and I think that's

really key when starting a business you can't be an expert in everything what I was good at I knew that was coming up with these ideas of products, and I knew I was going to be able to be the marketer for them. But I did not know how to build a P&L or cash flow or anything like that. So I recognized that was a weakness, and I fixed it straight away. So I went on that course. And during that course, I thought, let's not waste any time here. Let's start showing people these products, because I didn't want to waste any time, I felt in my bones that this was going to be a very, very fast moving sector. And I didn't want anyone to beat me to it. So I literally drove around the country when I wasn't studying.

So day and night, my parents actually helped me. They'd wake up with me at 5am in the morning, drive crumbles around the whole country. So we'd deliver them to social media influences, press, all sorts, buyers of stores. Initially got no traction, but then I started to get a little. And it was from just delivering them to people's doors that I started getting a little bit of a social media following. And the traction just came from there, from people endorsing me. And that's how I got my first meeting with Selfridges. For anyone who doesn't know, it's a big department store in London, very well known. Eventually, eventually after six emails and having been

ignored by the Selfridges buyer she said oh come and find tell me whatever it is that you're trying to sell to me I'll give you 20 minutes and I went in and that 20 minute meeting turned into two hours we really got on she loved the product she loved what it was about and she said whenever you're ready to start selling these we're ready we'll take you on so that's really how it all got going for me that is amazing I do want to just circle back around to that point though as well because I think it's really really important that you managed to get your foot in the door with Selfridges which was obviously such a key and pivotal point to your business. But prior to that, you had had a lot of rejection.

And like you say, it was driving around and dropping things off with influencers. I want to just really say, how did you overcome those pieces of rejection? Because I feel like that's one thing. I actually did an amazing interview the other week with Jim Quick. And we were talking about when you're a child, you fall over and you get back up and you don't even think about it. You learn to walk and how many times as toddlers do you fall over and get back up? And children, he was saying that children learn really well because they're not afraid to fail and try again. And as adults adults we lose that so how did you face rejection over and over again how

did you pick yourself up and get on with it were there moments where you're like oh I don't know if this is gonna work maybe I'm wrong like what was your mindset and how did you keep that mindset going throughout that time it's such a good question um I think it goes back to how you're brought up a lot of it does I think the message that you learn throughout your childhood if it's okay to fail but keep on going keep on trying that will encourage you as an adult to be that sort of person that's the message that I always got from my parents my dad for example has started a number of businesses some that have done really well but some that really haven't and he always taught me that that's okay and that's part of the journey

and so I always had that level of determination and resilience I think from him also just from the course that I did I did a very very high pressured course at UCL. And I was nowhere near as qualified as most people were to do that. But I got in because I made myself get into that course. I worked so, so hard, probably harder than anyone else needed to do. And I was never the best. And I was striving to be so I wouldn't ever get as good grades as everyone else and that made me more and more determined to be better and better and the same applies for business I think when I started out and I started delivering these crumbles I'd baked hours for delivering them spending hours in the car with my parents driving up and down the country

and then I didn't hear anything back or I'd hear yeah these are good but I'm not sure if I'd spend any money on them it just made me more determined I'm just that sort of person that when I hear it's not quite right I want to make sure that it's right and it makes me even more focused to get it right. I'm very open to criticism as well. So if the criticism is constructive, I always take it on. And there's such a difference between just criticism and constructive criticism and all the constructive criticism I received at the beginning and even receive now that is part of why we are who we are as a brand and as a team because we listen we listen really really carefully because sometimes it's really valuable and I don't think anyone is ever too good to receive that sort of criticism and I've always been open to it but at the same time you have

to pick and choose that there will always be people who are wanting you to fail for no apparent reason so don't listen to those people but listen to the people who are wanting you to fail for no apparent reason. So don't listen to those people, but listen to the people who actually give valuable criticism and take it on and try and do better. Let's take a quick pause to talk about my new favorite all-in-one platform, Kajabi. You know I've been singing their praises lately because they have helped our business run so much smoother and with way less complexity, which I love. Not to mention our team couldn't be happier because now everything is in one place so it makes collecting data, creating pages, collecting payment, all the things so much simpler. One of our mottos at Boss Babe is simplify to

amplify and Kajabi has really helped us do that this year. So of course I needed to share it here with you. It's the perfect time of year to do a bit of spring cleaning in your business, you know, get rid of the complexity and instead really focus on getting organized and making things as smooth as possible. I definitely recommend Kajabi to all of my clients and students. So if you're listening and haven't checked out Kajabi yet, now is the perfect time to do so because they are offering boss babe listeners a 30-day free trial go to kajabi.com slash boss babe to claim your 30-day free trial that's kajabi.com slash boss babe i think that's really key as well because when people are

starting businesses in the early stages there are people who are going to voice an opinion and it might seem sometimes oh my goodness maybe their opinion is right versus mine but we always say that you take mentorship or you take advice from people who have walked the line that you want to walk or they've gone in the direction that you want to go in or like you say they are the exact consumers who are going to be consuming your food products and I think that is another really valid point around going always be careful about where you take advice from not all advice is good advice like not all feedback is good feedback and just being able to recognize that as an entrepreneur

I think has a really really key piece yeah and don't get me wrong there are some times when I've had a really long day and I'm tired and I do have a wobble I'll read a negative comment and I think oh and it does get yeah still gets to me today but I think exactly like you said you rise above it because you realize sometimes that that comment that you've just read that has got you down actually really isn't valuable and there's nothing actually that you can do from it but it's the comments that it's the criticism that you realize actually maybe they did have a valid point and I can actually act on this that's when you realize that you should take it on board yeah so true so let's just go back around to the fact that you said earlier on that finances were not your strong point but yet you've gone on to raise to get livia's to where it is

right now you've gone on to raise money so i want to talk about what process has been like from you what have been the ups and the downs of that let's get real behind the scenes because i definitely feel like there's a bit of a a cloak around the subject of raising and people like who have not raised really don't get it they don't necessarily I'm speaking that for myself I've not gone through a raise so tell us what is that like what does it entail what are the responsibilities just give us all the details yeah absolutely and I'm so happy to share on this because when I started I had no idea about fundraising like you say there's so much actually to know the best way to learn is through doing it. So when I started, I had come straight out of university. So I didn't have any savings from a previous job. I'd never had a proper job before other than working through my summers at university.

So I had no savings. And I knew if I was going to go big at this, I was going to have to raise some money pretty much from day one. So the first thing that I did was started speaking to friends and family about my idea and giving them the products there was so much encouragement from them and I realized actually maybe I could get some money from them and that's what I did in the first instance now looking back I think a lot of similar brands to us food and drink brands the first raise that they do is through crowdfunding I didn't even know what crowdfunding was when I started but I think in hindsight it probably would have been a good idea at that point because you can get some great investors on board and it's a great marketing tool as well crowdfunding you go out and let's

explain yeah let's let's explain what that is for those who don't know funding there are platforms um for example exceeders and crowdcube i'm sure that there are different ones in america and all different countries but those are two of the main ones in the uk and you put a platform out so you almost have your own profile and you start raising money through that profile you tell everyone who you are as a founder what the company is about and then you say we're looking to raise for an example a hundred thousand pounds and we are doing it at x valuation and you invite all sorts of investors on so I could be an investor for example I could sign up as an investor on these platforms. There could be investors like me who really haven't got much experience and who just are interested in putting their money in a few things, or there could be really experienced investors on there. as a startup is actually really appealing because you can get all sorts of people and it's a really

good way of putting your brand out there to people who are interested in business so it's a marketing tool as well as a fundraising tool but I didn't know about that so I raised initially through friends and family and that's when I learned oh oh, someone gives me money. And so I give them shares. That's how I learned on the go. And then actually, for the first few years, that is how we continued to raise. So I very much wanted to steer away from institutional funds. So when I say institutional funds, I mean, private equity, venture capital capital because there's a lot of stigma about those sorts of funds when you're starting a company from ground up and when you're a founder like me and when it's very much a founder-led company there have been a lot of stories about if you get a institutional fund on too early that can really crush the culture so we stayed away from that

and we raised continuously through individuals so angel investors friends and families just through my network really as you go on and you do you meet so many different sorts of people through all different paths and that's who have been investing in our company, pretty much until the end of last year, when it was the right time for us to bring a slightly more institutional investor on board with the VC. And that has been really helpful because a VC, a venture capital fund can bring you so much in terms of experience introduce you to the right sorts of people so it's not just money but it's who they can introduce you to and how they can help in different ways do they have connections with retailers or can they help you with overseas

export or that you start realizing that you actually have to be as choosy as they do. So it's not just them, whether they are interested in you, it's whether you are interested in them. Love that. One of the biggest bits of advice I would give is when someone invests in your company, especially if they're putting a large chunk of money in, you are essentially married to that person and you have to make sure that you get on with them so never ever raise money in a rush you always want it they will do due diligence on your company and you have to do due diligence on their company but them as people as well so you should take it out of the work context go for a drink with them or a meal take it make

really experiment to see whether you can work with them and in what capacity because you want to make sure that when times get rough they'll be your supporters instead of people who really come crashing down on you so I really have learned that and there have been some people who have invested in our company who have just, in ways, we haven't had a bad experience, but they really haven't done much. They've been very silent, which is okay. And then some who have gone over and beyond to be incredibly helpful. So before raising money, I would just always say, make sure you're doing it from the right

people who you get on with and understand what it is that you want is it just money and if it's just money then make sure that that investor is going to stay silent and they're not checking up on you all the time but if you want money as well as expertise and experience in what you're doing and connections and all of that stuff then make sure that they have it because a lot of people will say that they do but they actually don't so do a little digging I think that's really some really key thing points there is that like you say it's not would you marry them but you need to make sure you date them and I think it's really important and just also like you would date anyone I appreciate there's a honeymoon period and

what are they like when you've got to know them a little bit more so I think there's some really key bits of advice there because on the surface everyone can seem nice as pie and one thing a friend of mine who raised and exited very successfully she said to me that when she was looking to bring on her venture capital firm, she actually started asking other people and questions. Like when you're hiring, you go to references. Yeah, you have to go to references. So we'll look at who their portfolio companies are. So you can either find that out online or you just explicitly ask them the question,

who else have you invested in? And then you say, can I speak to the founders of those companies? You have to. That's a must for sure okay so I hope you're enjoying the episode so far please stay tuned as we share a bit of information about who supported this episode so far this episode is brought to you by care of if you've been following us for a while you'll know how much we love supplements here at Boss Babe. Anything to maximize our productivity, focus, and overall well-being, we are in. But when it comes to supplements, it isn't a one-size-fits-all. And it can also be really, really overwhelming and confusing to even know where to start on

the vitamin aisle. And that's why I use Care Of. Care Of is a wellness brand that makes it easy to maintain your health goals. Care Of is a wellness brand that makes it easy to maintain your health goals with a customized vitamin plan that helps you feel your best every single day and supports you not in the short term but the long term too. Care Of can make taking your vitamins and supporting your health goals attainable and easy because after taking a short five-minute quiz you get recommended the daily individual wrap packets that you need to take and it's absolutely perfect for getting your routine back on track. I really love Careof because it's super transparent also about the research and sourcing behind every one of their products and if you go to their website you can see an extensive list of everything you need to know about their ingredients but also fun

and informative content on their social media pages too. I've actually been using Kettle for a few months now and I've really noticed a difference and the improvement in my productivity especially because as the president and co-founder of Boss Babe it can be a little bit overwhelming and sometimes dare I say a little bit stressful. But since taking my recommended supplements, I feel so much more focused and clear headed and I'm also sleeping a ton better too. Now, all you need to do is head to Care Of's in-depth five minute online quiz to really find out exactly what you need to take and what's going to suit you. They ask you some simple questions about your diet, your lifestyle and your health concerns and then they actually create or tell

you basically which supplements are going to help you achieve your specific goals. So for everyone that's listening you're going to receive 50% off your first order by going to takecareof.com forward slash bossbabe50 and entering the code boss code boss babe 50 so if you are looking for a more tailored supplement plan all you have to do is head to the website take care of.com and fill in the questionnaire it's going to ask you things like how much sleep do you get how often do you work out do you follow any specific diets and from there they're going to give you recommendations so like I said you go to takecareof.com forward slash boss babe 50 and enter boss babe 50 for a 50% off your first order and we're back let's jump back into today's episode I think just these bits of advice are just so important because I don't think people like say

we're just not talking about it enough and I know that it's a question that we get asked a lot in our membership or should I raise? And I'm like, it's really not about should you raise? It's about what do you want to achieve in your life? What do you want your life to look like as well? Because when you take money, there's responsibility with that too. I think there's huge stigma about raising money I think especially I find with female-led businesses where it's there's almost like some people have too much pride to say that they've had to raise money because they think it's a sign that the company isn't doing well enough maybe not having

made enough profit but actually it could be that you're just growing so quick with our company we've been in triple digit growth since we started and so to fund that growth you need to have a lot of money in the bank and that's why I've never ever shied away from fundraising I actually really welcome it and I'm really open to talking about it as well because I'm not ashamed of having raised previously and that I'm having to raise again. I think everyone should talk about it. And the more that people like me give advice on who to raise from and how, the easier it will be for people starting businesses. I love that.

And so when you go to raise, and let's stay on this subject because I feel like we're talking about it. And that's like one of the biggest steps. So when you decided to raise and how did you even create that first deck? Were you Googling it? Like, did you get advice from people?

No, really. So from very, very early on, it's actually really funny. I haven't thought about this in years. So I didn't actually have a business plan, like a deck, essentially, for the first three years of my business. And that really sums me up as a person everyone says to me and my team like how are you running a business like this I have everything in my head so I can't I don't store anything and I don't make decks and presentations or excel files like it's all in my head and you're giving me anxiety oh my god I give so many people anxiety you should see my fd

she literally can't cope with me we have a joke because in the boss babe I'm just systems person I'm always like it sounds really morbid but I'm always like if anyone for whatever reason cannot come into work one day we need to make sure it's written down yeah well you know what I am that person but I recognize that that is needs to be done but it's not me so we like that is not my strength like I said at the beginning I recognize what my strengths are one of my weaknesses is that I cannot file things properly so I had never actually made a deck and this goes, we can talk about this later, perhaps of how I went about selling the product to retailers. But most people always did things with a deck. And I knew that because when I did my business course, early on at UCL, they showed us

how to make a business plan, a great presentation. But when people were presenting, I often found that it was very static. And it was, I found the presence. Yeah, I mean, I think the word is prescribed, they would learn what to say when something came on the screen. And it just seemed very rehearsed. What I have always been about is, give people product and I let them experience that when I'm speaking to them so I've never spoken to an investor without having sent them a box of treats for them to try beforehand because that's what we're about have they had that treat moment with us and have they recognized that we're all about indulgence and satisfying those sweet cravings they have to have experienced that before I can really speak to them about

what I'm about and what the brand is about and then for example with this podcast and with everything that I do whether it's raising money or whether it's selling into a retailer there's no one who knows the brand better than I do and there's no one who can talk about the products like I can so I go in and I go in with products and I just talk I've never gone in to any meeting I've had with a presentation ever I've never gone with a notebook ever I go in I go with product and I have a conversation and if it doesn't go as well as I thought if they say oh yeah I like this but maybe it's not right for my category I ask why I ask questions and I'll go back and I'll talk about that with my team and I'll give them the feedback and we incorporate that into the next time we have a meeting. But going back to your question of what did the first deck look like?

So like I said, I didn't have one for the first three years. But then as we started raising bigger chunks of money, I realized that actually I was going to have to start going out to more people and people who were more experienced. And that that's what they expected I couldn't go for hundreds of meetings with people it was actually I was going to have to send a deck and then filter down who was interested and who wasn't the first deck now I remember being so proud of it and I had help from some of my team members we thought it looked great. Now looking back on it, I can't believe we put in there. And it's only two years ago. But I look at it, it looks archaic. And I don't know why I was talking about the things I was talking about. investors love graphs investors love to easily translate what you're doing is working so if you show them a graph with upward trajectories and you can see that your growth is soaring and your sales are soaring and you can make it really really clear what your aims and your missions are

then it's simple to win them over I love that just giving them north star exactly where you're heading so it's super super clear for them and I want to ask this is going to be a little bit of a more of a uncomfortable conversation but I think it's really important how have you found raising as a woman because the statistics show that women-led companies have less money invested in the VC level yet they are also most likely to succeed long term so I'm really interested whether you received any pushback or any kind of resistance around that maybe you did maybe you didn't yeah and again I'm very very happy to talk about this openly because I think it is important I would say that I've seen both sides of it and I think

that in some circumstances it's really helped that I've been a young woman going in by myself raising money I think that a lot of people want to say that they're backing people like me even if they don't actively want to themselves it looks good for them to be backing women and therefore they take special interest in it so I think in some ways it has played to my advantage in other ways it has been really difficult one thing that is worth mentioning is that I'm obviously a sole founder so not just a young woman but I'm doing this alone so when I go and raise money I've never ever gone with anyone and I think even as a man that would be intimidating. Most people within my industry have a partner. It's quite rare in this industry that we're in to be a sole founder. So you can't help but get intimidated

sometimes when you're meeting someone who is worth billions and you know that they have started some of the world's most successful companies going and talking to them about your little startup you can't help but be intimidated and unfortunately I have experienced some very very uncomfortable questions and looking back at when that happened I feel pretty ashamed how I responded to them so I've been asked a number of times stop presenting I'll start talking about my products and getting people to try them and I'll get interrupted with and when are you planning on having a family so I know no oh my goodness I have been on that three times by people that if I I would never mention their names but if I did it would be

mortifying for them because it is just so unacceptable and I'm the person I don't know if you can tell this podcast but I'm an open person and when I don't like how things are I talk about it but actually in all of those situations I answered because I was so intimidated and I was so taken aback that when you're in a room when you're in and also you're always in their room they very rarely come to your space you're always in their space and when you get asked by a much much older guy a question like that and you're in your zone you're in your selling zone presenting and talking about your world and you get interrupted with that difficult question inappropriate should never be asked I've just always answered it and in hindsight I wish I would have stood up and said I'm not going

there and we don't even need to carry on with this meeting because you've just made it plain and clear that I don't want an investor like you coming into my business and I've always walked away feeling that and I've never ever engaged with those people afterwards even when they've tried but I never said anything in the meeting and I do wish I had and it really goes to show that we do face those difficulties as women in business and it's not just direct questions like that. But actually, sometimes it's more indirect questions that can be very challenging. I listened to a TED talk a couple of years ago, which was about the gender bias in raising money, and that men are always asked opportunistic questions. How big is the market how big do you plan to grow women get asked

questions that mean that they have to defend themselves so it's protective questions so who are the other brands who are your competitive brands and how are you going to make sure that you're better than them and you're always asked to justify yourself and I see that a lot so rather than people truly wanting to understand the opportunity it's more of just how am I going to protect the brand against everything around me that's so so interesting and I think you know where life is about learning and I first of all just want to acknowledge you for saying like okay on hindsight maybe you could have answered these in a different way but I think

giving yourself the grace and being well do you know what next time I will I'm ready now and sometimes it takes a lot to stand up it takes a lot of energy to stand up and I think there's a conversation like I say a gender and race and I think you know moving forwards are all aware now of how we can do better and will do better yeah and giving more voice to it really helps as having this open conversation and I think you sharing that your experiences also allows other women who are listening who are perhaps considering raising or perhaps already have raised want be prepared for those unfortunately be prepared for those questions and have those comebacks and feel like you're prepped and ready to say what you want to say and is on the heart and needs I hope so I do I really hope so that's always what my intention

is when I come on podcast like this because I wish that I had heard stories like this before I started because it would have just made me so much more prepared yeah because as we prepare to challenge it then we can educate what's we're challenging as well right well actually this is why you should not ask this question and like you say that that sass of the hair flickers you're like you know what I don't want you to invest in my company see exactly exactly see yeah your loss 100 thank you for sharing that okay so I just want I we said we were coming back to it and so I want to you now supply some huge stores within the UK all right you mentioned Selfridge as being one of the first ones but I know that I've bought your products from all the

big chain supermarkets when I did live in the UK so just talk to me about how that process has been for you selling to them getting in their stores building those relationships what's that look like yeah so we had a really unusual experience with selling into retailers it all stemmed from my social media so my Instagram I focused I always explain it Instagram is almost at the core of our business and it will always be so it has been as much of focus as building the product line and selling into retail and because I've put so much time and energy into the social media platform I have made sure to reach out to the right people and to allow the right people to reach out to me and so actually a lot of brands of our size would say that they were emailing and emailing and emailing buyers like I did for Selfridges but actually what happened

with us was we got into Selfridges which was was an amazing shop floor for us. It was a shop window, really. It was people would go in there, see our brand for the first time and then recognize it. And what happened was a lot of buyers were going into Selfridges to see who the new up and coming brands were. And I actually got approached by the majority of the retailers that were now listed in through that so I got messages through Instagram from all the main buyers from Tesco, Sainsbury's, Boots for example, Holland and Barrett, Waitrose because they had seen my products whether it was in Whole Foods or Selfridges. And then they came to me. So of course, there have been circumstances where with some retailers, I've wanted to speak

to different buyers. And of course, I've had to find people's names and reach out to them. But actually, I would say it's shown me and I hope other people as well the importance of having great social media because people have seen our products and our brand in a store like Selfridges and then they search us on social media and they're like oh wow this brand actually looks really good and wow that post is mouth-watering and okay actually I think I should have a conversation with this brand because they would be really good to bring in whereas if they had gone to Selfridges saw our great products and then landed on our page which was meh I wonder whether we would have ever got the message from them so I think our Instagram page has definitely played a huge part in that process. And I started having

conversations with them. And like I said, I'm always just me and I don't pretend to be anything else. So early on, I'll never forget when I started having meetings with people like Waitrose and Ocado and Sainsbury's, I really played up to the fact that I was very innocent I said okay you tell me how this works and most of the time they really respected that and no one tried it on really no one said okay well what we do is we try and get 99% margin and I would I would have known no different but actually everyone was like okay this is quite amazing that she's learning on the job and she's opening herself up to the fact that she's not an expert but this is how she will become one and I think because I was always very very transparent about who I am and what we are

trying to be as a brand buyers just really resonated with that. And so I developed really good relationships very early on. And then a part of the whole picture is who I bring in for my team, because those people are going to carry on and start new relationships. And I've always just made sure that the people who I bring in the team are personable people and trustworthy people and people who have my similar style I don't bring people in who are classic sellers who wear suits and who present in a traditional way but actually they do it in a very similar way to me and so whether it's me that goes into the meeting or whether it's my commercial director or someone in the sales team it all feels the same and I think that's really important so true and we always teach in our membership about the customer journey and I think this applies like you say for even buyers

they're customers at the end of the day but having those two interactions before purchase so there's that first of all that as awareness when they're first discovering you but if you think of any brand that you buy from you always do a bit of research on them so you might go okay I've seen them in a store I'm going to look at their social media or you've seen them in social media and then you see them in the store and you're looking a little bit more where you go on their website everyone always wants that second reassurance before they buy and there's that saying isn't it like you buy seven times before you buy you have to see a brand and I think it's gone up to 11 because of the content we consume but I think you're talking about social media being important and obviously I 100% agree with that because that's how we built Boss Babe but I do think like that's one thing that people always

need to consider in their businesses if people are going to find you in one place they always need to be able to find you in two or three more as well to really confirm like oh you're a reputable brand yes I absolutely and I think COVID has just cemented that because a lot of brands who were just doing one thing just being sold online or just being sold in retail or just being sold in food service cafes and theaters and out of home is what we call it here if you just have that one source then you're kind of screwed covid has shown that you need to have everything going for you so when it hit with us retail was hit so badly and a lot of our sales were coming from places like Boots,

Meal Deal and the supermarkets where people would just go and grab a quick snack with their sandwich and drink. And obviously, of course, with lockdown, no one was doing that. So we had to very, very quickly think of what else we can do. And that was all about digital for us so digital in the last couple of months for us has grown 600% and so it's an online platform website we've been able to launch new products that are sold exclusively through our website and as well just engagement on our social media and I said to my whole team even if sales are zero if we can grow our social media at this time, then that's a win. And we've been able to do both, which is amazing. But like you said, you need to have all platforms going for you. You need to think about all bases and cover them all.

Yeah, 100%. And I really love hearing how you have shifted during COVID and just hearing that actually you've had such improvements in other areas, because I also think that is just a testament to you as a businesswoman and your team around being open to pivot. And we start this conversation as well by being open minded and always wanting to learn about it. And you've continued doing that. And I think that's what's really stood out for me on your journey is the way you show up and say, hey, I don't have all the answers. I'm here to learn. I'm here to ask questions. And I'm here to apply things, even down to going to investors and come back. OK, they said these things. Can we apply this? COVID changes the sales.

And it's like, OK, well, what can we do? Let's move our digital sales forward. How can we do that? And I think that's just so so important with business and I always want to be super vulnerable and I always say as well we don't have the answers we are learning as we're going as well and I think when more people show up like that it actually just means everyone's a bit happy you don't have to pretend to be anything you can ask questions and be like I don't know I'm asking loads of you at the I'm asking you these questions today from somebody who's not gone and raised money and I'm super intrigued I'm like wow I'm learning a lot so thank you so much yeah exactly no of course I completely agree it's nice to have these open

conversations about how we can all learn and be better yeah I mean it is the it's the only way to improve you have to be open and you have to be vulnerable. And in business, you have to be agile. You cannot get stuck to thinking this one way is the only way. You have to think there's always a hundred different things that we can do. And I think COVID for every single business owner has tested them but some people won't have been able to pivot and some people unfortunately just because they haven't had the resources which is very bad but some people as well just because they don't have the right mindset and the mindset is so important and I say to my team we have a zoom online virtual catch-up every morning at 9am just to check in and see

what's going on with each other and every day it changes we'll say okay what's going on what are the plans for today and then something else has happened in the news and the next day it's okay this needs to be the focus this is what we're going to do and we have to just be agile like I said be flexible and pivot yeah 100 well listen thank you so much Livia for coming on and just being vulnerable and sharing your story I know that's going to have inspired so many women listening and just also you know lifted the lid on the investment world from a entrepreneur's perspective which is in my opinion so needed especially for women as well so thank you for being that and sharing that and I want you to share your handles as well because I would love

any listeners to this whether you're in the UK or out in the US wherever you are in the world I know there's going to be some takeaways that apply to you on this so tag myself at danielle cante please tag at bossbib.inc and Livia do you want to share your handles yeah absolutely so our instagram is at Livia's l-i-v-i-a-s and our website is www.livias.co.uk I love that and I know where everyone can find you in the UK but can people buy your treats outside of the UK well you can from our website so we should we had had plans to start exporting later this year but unfortunately because of covid i think all of that is going to be pushed back but in the meantime just visit our online store and you can get us from wherever you are in the world well i know you're going to have

some raving fans waiting and if not i say i'm going to be going to put my order in now I know I can get the ship I need my home comforts having me it's been such a pleasure to speak to you if you loved this episode please subscribe download a few more and please leave us a review I really want to hear what you enjoyed what your main takeaways were and I also want to know what you want to hear us talk about next to say thanks for leaving us a review. I really want to hear what you enjoyed, what your main takeaways were, and I also want to know what you want to hear us talk about next. To say thanks for leaving us a review, we'll send you a copy of The Boss Babe 25. The Boss Babe 25 is the 25 essential resources you need for personal and professional growth. It covers everything from our favorite rituals, books, and hacks. If you want a copy, just leave us a review, screenshot it, and send to podcast at bossbabe.com. We will then email you a copy ASAP.

And since we love Instagram, you can go to the hashtag the bossbabe podcast and find our latest post and leave a question in the comments. We love reading through the comments and we'll make sure to answer it on our next podcast.