the bossbabe podcast - 127. How to Build a Highly Converting Sales Page with Anna Nassery

Episode Date: October 21, 2020

We’re welcoming back Anna Nassery, Founder and CEO of BrandUp, an LA-based creative agency and the geniuses behind our highly converting sales pages for our flagship programs, Insta Growth Accelerator and Online Launch School.  When it comes to building a highly converting sales page, we know how overwhelming the process can be but before you invest tons of money into creating a custom page that may not even convert, Anna is lifting the lid on how to structure and optimize a sales page. Tune in as she breaks it down step-by-step on how to outline a sales page to meet your ideal clients where they’re at on their customer journey. After this episode, you’ll understand how the buyer’s journey influences the layout of your sales page and what you need to do in order to optimize every piece of information for conversion. Get your pen and paper ready because we’re touching on psychology, branding, and even a bit of biohacking (because you know we’re all about optimizing both our business and health!). Shop our Launch Shop with Brandup and get a done-for-you sales page template. https://go.bossbabe.com/scale-your-launch-live  Use code BOSSBABE to get 20% off on SOUL CBD products. https://mysoulcbd.com/ ⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣  Follow: @bossbabe.inc Natalie Ellis, @iamnatalie Anna Nassery, @annadoingthings_

Anywhere there are words on your page is an opportunity to sell, right? So even an FAQ section, instead of throwing the boring questions in there, make those sellable too. It's really all about positioning the problem and then shedding light on the repercussions of not acting on that problem. And then you provide a solution and then you show results with data. Welcome to the Boss Bay podcast, a place where we share the real behind the scenes of building successful businesses, achieving peak performance, and learning how to balance it all. So today,

by the way, do I still need to keep saying it's Natalie? Because I feel like you guys can tell the difference between me and Danielle, but let me know. So today I'm really, really excited because I am going to be interviewing my best friend, Anna Nasseri. Now you might have heard me talk about Anna before. She's the founder and CEO of BrandUp, which is a creative agency based here in LA. They're actually the creative agency behind our branding, our sales pages, all of the things. Now, for a really long time, people have been asking me for support with sales pages. And honestly, getting a sales page fully custom designed can be really expensive.

And when I was first building my business, I wasn't investing that much money into sales pages because I was just trying to do it myself to save money, to prove my concept. And then once we started making money was when I started to invest in things more. So we've actually partnered with BrandUp to put together some amazing templates for you for less than $500, where you can just plug in your copy and we walk you through step-by-step everything you need to have a really high converting sales page. So if you're interested in that, I'm going to put all the info below. But on this episode, I really wanted to dive into what makes an amazing sales page, because I know so many of you are using these in your business. You know, no matter what kind of business you have, your sales page is really, really important. And so we walk through that. I also grill Anna about all of her biohacking rituals because

she's a biohacking queen. We both bond over the biohacking. So I think you're going to really, really love this episode. As always, if you've got any questions after this episode, feel free to DM me or Anna on Instagram and please share this episode and tag us. We absolutely love seeing you listening and sharing this with other people. And before I go, I just want to do a little bribe. So if any of you are open to reviewing the podcast, we would absolutely love it. It helps us so much.

So if you leave a review and then take a screenshot and send it to podcast at bosswave.com, we're actually going to send you a copy of the Boss Babe Bible, which is essentially all of the tips, tricks, hacks, tools, templates, all of the things we use, which is essentially all of the tips, tricks, hacks, tools, templates, all of the things we use to be high performing. So you're going to love it. So just take a screenshot and send it to podcastatbosser.com. And with that, let's dive straight in.

A boss babe is unapologetically ambitious and paves the way for herself and other women to rise, keep going and fighting on. She is on a mission to be her best self in all areas. It's just believing in yourself, confidently stepping outside her comfort zone to create her own vision of success. Yay, welcome back to the podcast. Hello, hello. Thank you for having me again. I mean, I feel like we have a million and one things to cover and I want to dive in and pick your brain about sales pages and design and all those things. But before we do that, I feel like I want to talk routines because your routine's always so epic. And every time I talk to you, I learned something new. So the other day when we were on the beach, you were talking about,

maybe it was the day you were talking a lot about your energy and just how it's such a massive priority for you. And you're always looking for ways to optimize. So I want to know, like, what are you doing lately that's really optimizing your energy? Yes, I love nerding out about this, Natalie. So I think today's been a great example of this. I think for one, everyone has a different way that their energy flows, right? We all work differently. And for me, anytime I have podcast interview like this, or I'm leading my team through a meeting, it drains me. So something I really like to do is spend my first half of the day before the meeting or before the interview, really just lining my energy up. So today was a great example of that. I didn't do any heavy,

busy work. So I'm saving that for the second half of the day. Instead, this morning, I kind of just nourished myself, I did some highly creative parts of my work, because I know that energizes me versus doing more of my administrative tasks, which I'm saving for the second half of the day. And actually a couple minutes before I hopped on this call, I just did some rebounding, I have a Belicon in my office. So I always just do some bouncing on that before I have calls or between meetings. It just helps me get back into my body, which I love. I love that so much. And what have you ate today? Like, I want to just know all the specifics of your life, honestly. Oh my gosh. So actually today was, I have not, I just got back from a week and a half of travel. So I haven't quite been eating the way I normally do, which is totally fine.

I think that's, you can attest to this too, Natalie, because I feel like you also have such great routines and you're on top of your, you know, the way your movement and the way you eat. And we were actually talking about this the other day at the beach too. When I travel, I don't want to worry about that. I kind of just want to flow with it. I think that's like the, you know, 80, 20, that's the 20. So when I get back to real life, I like to go back into my 80 and I just kept it really simple today. And I'm actually,

I've been drinking a lot more liquid. So my girlfriend, Tracy, you know, Tracy, she was telling me that she gets a lot of her minerals in through teas. So I've just been ordering a bunch of just loose leaf herbal teas. So I have some nettle, horsetail, and hibiscus in like a giant mason jar right now. And I put some quinton minerals in there and I put a little bit of monk fruit. So when I have liquids like this, it satiates me. I feel like it nourishes your cells. So especially on days when you have a lot going on, I think digestion can be really taxing. So as much as you can kind of minimize that and really just nourish your body and just eat and drink really simple foods. I love that. So walk me through your day then. So like what would be a typical

morning? Like what would you eat? What would be like an energy exercise? And then... So the funny thing is I feel like I have to put some structure into my day because I'm an air sign I'm all over the place if I don't have structure so with that said I usually like to reserve at least an hour and a half in my mornings for me and this is actually probably one of my favorite things that I do is I from 9 p.m to 9 a.m day, I have my phone on do not disturb. And I also have I recently started doing screen time. So I minimize my screen time and I do downtime. So that makes it so that makes it so I turn off every app on my phone, you can hand

select which apps you want to use or ones you want to omit, I turn everything off that will induce dopamine. So that means social media, anything productive, even like podcasts, you know, where you're kind of in that learning state. So I only have my meditation apps. I have my text messages open and a couple of basic, like my YouTube in case I want to zen out over something. But that's my favorite way of making sure my mornings and my nights are for me. And I'm not trying to get ahead of my day or try to be productive. So I love doing that. So I always have my mornings free to myself. And I, the thing that here's the caveat with structure. I like having my mornings. However, I hate following like the same cookie cutter routine every day. I just wake up. I'm like, what do I feel like doing some days, it's doing a little bit of like 1015 minutes of Kundalini

and or breath work. And then I'll go for a little walk. I'll do a little bit of I wouldn't say exercise, but I'll do a little bit of yoga at home or just kind of getting into my body. And then some days I want to journal some days I don't, you know, if I'm inspired, I want to do it. But I don't like putting myself into a box of tapping into myself unless I wake up knowing how I feel. I love that so much. And I love how you're like, I'm an air sign. I just see how I feel. I'm an earth sign.

So I'm like, give me every bit of structure you've got and I'll just do the same thing all day, every day. But I love finding out little hacks that you're doing. And do you have anything that you're doing like these are my kind of daily energy rituals or weekly monthly like I know for me we go to the same rolfer so for anyone listening that doesn't know what rolfing is it's like massage body work like they really get into your fascia so that for me is like a weekly non-negotiable and I found that to be so good for my energy for like stress management it's really really good and then on top of that I do weekly acupuncture which I

love so I like I always have this list of my dailies weeklies and monthlies which can get totally thrown off when you're traveling but when I'm back and I'm in that routine there's like my non-negotiables or like three times a week personal training, that kind of thing. Yes. And it's funny too, because I mean, you and I both live on the West side and us to go to our role first, like we have to go all the way out to West Hollywood. It's a time investment. However, that's just a testament to how good it makes us feel. And it allows us to show up better for work, for our friends, for our loved ones. And it's just a quality of life thing that I am 100% all about. And it even

I think right when COVID hit, and we're in lockdown, I think you and I both got really humbled. We're like, Oh, oh, shit, we go to acupuncture and rolfing and our energy healers and everything. So I think it's all about being agile and knowing that when things happen, you don't need or require these things, but it's just a good investment. If you have the time, if you have the resources, absolutely do it. And if you're limited, I would stick to one or two things a week that you know, lights you up. So like you mentioned, our rolfer, he is excellent, especially when I know you're doing a lot of strength training right now, too. I think when you're doing a lot of exercise, it's really important to get back into your fascia and make sure you're not all constricted. And you know, we're all sitting on our desks all day and on our phones and laptops. So undoing that I feel like it's really important.

And I same I do acupuncture once a week. And I go I go to my do network care chiropractic, which is a healing and energy healing modality, which unlocks different energy channels in your spine. So that I love. I actually had that. I went to that earlier today. Again, I wanted to show up for the rest of my day super energized. And that always does the trick for me. And Natalie, you and I do our, we go to sound bath down at the beach once a week. I think that's a great one too, just for winding down and grounding. I love that. And I go to cryotherapy a couple of times a week. I think that really, that's like a nice hit of energy that I love. Yeah. It makes you feel so good. Okay. One final question while

I'm just figuring out your whole routine and picking your brain. If you could only take one supplement, I think I know the answer to this, but if you could only take one supplement, I think I know the answer to this, but if you could only take one supplement, what would it be? Did you guess the minerals? Yeah. Keep going. Yeah. It's funny because I used to take a lot of supplements, you guys. And then I started doing a lot of gut healing and researching gut healing. You learn that a lot of oral supplements that you take don't really get absorbed by your gut that easily. So after that, I just cut everything off. And I would just I think I've just been taking really good quality fish oil and digestive enzymes with my meals. And then once a week, I actually get I don't get an IV because I don't have time for that. Instead, I get an intravenous push. So that's basically an

IV without the fluid because let's be honest, I drink a lot of good quality water. So I don't need the saline. So I just get an IV push and it's like I do glutathione, B vitamins, magnesium, which you guys, magnesium and vitamin C, when you get that in a push or an IV or an injection, you feel terrible for an hour or two after,

but it's doing a lot of, so that's not one of those fixes. If you're like, okay, great. I have a big meeting today. I want to get my vitamins. Don't do that. Do that at the end of the day when you know you can just sleep it off. But that's, I get a lot of my nutrients intravenously. And then, so the supplement that I take every day that I absolutely love is a hundred percent my minerals. So I use this brand called Quicksilver Scientifics. They have these Keaton minerals and they have isotonic and hypertonic. The isotonic is basically like

medicine. It's clear. It's basically straight ocean minerals. And I start each day with taking a vial of that. And like anytime I've gotten a facial, like my entire life, everyone's always like, Oh, your skin's very sensitive and dry, but it's not like your skin's dry on the outside. It's like, you're kind of dehydrated. And I drink a lot of water. So this year, I've really been learning about not so much the volume of the water that you drink, but the quality. So I get live spring water delivered, which has all the minerals intact. And then I've been supplementing with I also do molecular hydrogen every day, too, from the same brand. And that's like a shot of like, it like tastes really gross, but I put it in like a couple ounces of water and I just shoot it down. And that's really good for

nourishing your cells. And then the isotonic minerals, I just take a vial every morning and I could tell my body just really loves it. You know that feeling when you're drinking celery juice and it's kind of gross, but you're like, Ooh, this just feels good. Is that just me? Or do you feel that too? That's how I feel about these minerals i'm just like like there's something about it that my body craves and your body does not lie when it comes to certain cravings like that especially when something just classically doesn't taste very palatable yeah let's take a quick pause to talk about my new favorite all-in-one platform kajabi you know i've been singing their praises lately because they have helped our business run so much smoother and with way less complexity, which I love.

Not to mention our team couldn't be happier because now everything is in one place. So it makes collecting data, creating pages, collecting payment, all the things so much simpler. One of our mottos at Boss Babe is simplify to amplify and Kajabi has really helped us do that this year. So of course I needed to share it here with you. It's the perfect time of year to do a bit of spring cleaning in your business, you know, get rid of the complexity and instead really focus on getting organized and making things as smooth as possible. I definitely recommend Kajabi to all of my clients and students so if you're listening and haven't checked out kajabi yet now is the perfect time

to do so because they are offering boss babe listeners a 30-day free trial go to kajabi.com slash boss babe to claim your 30-day free trial that's kajabi.com slash boss babe i agree i think for me my foundational supplements would be the keaton minerals since you got me into those i'm obsessed and then i take ancestral I think it's ancestral nutrition, organ meat capsules or liver capsules. And they generally replace like all of your like supplements, multivitamins. They have so many amazing vitamins in

and you're getting it directly from organ meats. So I've really, really noticed a difference taking them. And then I'll take a Just Thrive probiotic. We've actually had them on the podcast so those are kind of my baseline and then if I am taking more on top of that I have a really good because I don't go for pushes or I get IVs sometimes but same thing it's just such a big time commitment and honestly it's expensive to keep doing it and the ones the IVs that you get at home are like three four hundred bucks yeah it, it's a lot. So I have this liposomal glutiathone that you just put under your tongue. If you just Google, if anyone's interested,

you can just Google it and find it. That's really, really good. I take a prebiotic and then I kind of listen to my body. If I need like extra C or zinc or magnesium, then I'll do it. But I feel like if I do Epsom salt baths and stuff, I get the magnesium anyway. I don't necessarily need to take it. I love that. It's like, you're all about the alternate delivery mechanisms like the liposomal through your skin in the bath I think the more you do those things that the easier your body kind of absorbs everything instead of just taking a bunch of pills every day yeah because I used to be that person taking so many supplements every day and actually just like narrowing it all down has been really really

great so I'm loving those right now if anyone's same were you the type of person that had like you know those Monday through Sunday little pill capsules that grandparents take yeah I had three of them a morning noon and night traveling with me was just a nightmare I was just waiting for the moment TSA would pull me over and be like um um, what the hell is this? Are you like a dealer? What's like, what's going on? That's hilarious. Okay. So now we've got the important stuff, by the way. I want to talk about sales pages because everyone already knows you. They know that you and your company are behind all of our sales pages and in fact, brand design behind Boss Babe.

And you're just such a pro when it comes to sales pages. And I've been getting asked a ton from people, you know, not knowing how to structure things, having questions about it. So what I was thinking was, let's dive in and talk. Firstly, I want to talk about the hierarchy of doubt, because I actually don't think a lot of people know about this. And then we can go into sales page. So can you explain a little bit more about that concept? Yes. So it's actually really cool. You guys sales page is the main purpose of a sales page is nudging people through from top to bottom every stage of the buyer's journey. And it can get really intricate to go through that without being too overwhelming or cumbersome. So there are a few different

protocols that people can take. We've really modeled ours under the hierarchy of doubt, which I actually learned this from John Romanello, who is excellent at copywriting and storytelling. He has a great course out there on copywriting for beginners, FYI, but he taught me all about hierarchy of doubt, which it is a psychological framework, kind of like an inverted Maslow's hierarchy of needs. It really addresses how most people landing on a page probably look at it and it's like, okay, this is bullshit, or they have their doubts all the way down to the bottom of like being like, wait, holy shit, I need this. And everything you can do in between to really nudge them from start to finish. I love that. So what kind of doubts might people have landing on a page? What are the common ones you hear?

So part of our discovery process with clients and sales pages is we have them list 20 doubts that people would have purchasing their product. So this is a great exercise any of you guys can do. Everything from the price point to the time commitment to the value to the, is this for me? Is this for guys? Is this for for me? Is this for guys?

Is this for newbies? Is this for experts, literally write down all of those and make sure that each one of those questions or doubts are called out somewhere on the page, make them bold, make them stand out, make them, you know, tie in a lot of emotion to them. And there are so many fun ways that you guys can tie this into the copy. So a really big tip that I, we usually like to give is to use any opportunity, anywhere there are words on your page is an opportunity to sell, right? So even an FAQ section, instead of throwing the boring questions in there, make those sellable too and infuse those. I always love infusing those doubtful questions or the doubtful, anywhere someone might experience doubt,

I would add them to the FAQs and then save some of the FAQs that you feel like people would need after they purchase. Save that for the backend experience. Use the FAQs on the page to sell. Use the testimonials to sell. And even testimonials too, as you guys are getting them from people who have purchased your program, I always like to advise people to give talking points to whoever's writing them. And then when they send it back, always highlight and bold certain statements and really make sure that there are some sort of objection that's negated with that testimonial. Yeah, I agree with that. Because generally, if you ask for a testimonial from someone, let's say you help them make $ hundred thousand dollars. What you'll find is they'll probably be like, Oh my God, this has been amazing. You've helped me so much. I've got so much clarity. I've started bringing in clients. Like it can come across really fluffy. Whereas if

you give them that specific, like, okay, what tangible results, how much was this? And when it like really drill down, they'll come back being like, Oh, well in that three months, you helped me make a hundred thousand dollars. And it's just just like when you give them that template it makes such a massive difference and agree that that kind of social proof is going to be a really big sell and when you're working through that sales page you're really thinking about the two parts of the brain the part of the brain that buys on emotion or the part of the brain that really needs to have the logic to be they might have like a gut yes reaction but they need the logic to be there and so your copy in the beginning of a sales page might give that gut reaction like yes I am the person that's struggling with this and yes this sounds like such

a great fit for me and then the logical part of the brain kicks in and those testimonials start to help that logical brain see, okay, this actually does sound like a really good investment. I can see where my ROI is coming from. And I often see on sales pages that aren't necessarily doing very well. They really forget to address both the emotional and the logical. And some other ways you can really dive into the logical are just through showing data, data, numbers, things like that. And then

also in some other little hacks to psychologically are really throwing in like bonuses, incentives, discounts, deadlines, urgency with time, like a countdown timer. There are so many different ways emotionally and logically that you can really hook people in through these sales pages. Yeah. Okay, we're going to take a quick break right now to hear from our sponsor this episode is brought to you by soul cbd now i want to share a little bit about my favorite cbd line because if you've been following boss babe for a while then you know how much we love soul cbd i actually personally discovered a while back and one of my favorite products is the calm capsules and the strawberry gummies now

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or trouble sleeping, I highly recommend you try this brand. So check out our episode notes to learn more about the products and access our 20% off promo code using BOSSBABE, okay? So that's 20% off all Soul CBD products using the code BOSSBABE. And we're back. Let's jump straight into today's episode. Okay, so let's pivot a little bit to talking about the outline of a sales page because like we were just saying, you're moving through a hierarchy of doubt. And what happens whenever I'm designing a sales page, I first sit down and I'm like, who specifically is this for? And what is their relationship to the person landing on the sales page is a pretty warm relationship. I don't do a lot of cold outreach or cold marketing. I focus on my warm and hot leads. So I'll generally sit down and I'll be like, okay, what do they already know about me? And what do they need to know about me in order to trust that what I'm telling them is correct? That's the first thing. And then beyond that, what do they need to know about this program to make an informed decision about whether it is for them or whether it's not for them?

And the goal really is to have them start at the top, end at the bottom, and have answered all of their questions, spoke to their emotional side of the brain and the logical side of the brain, and have them make a very clear, yes, this isn't for me, or an empowered, no, this isn't for me. And the empowered part's really important because what can happen sometimes, and people will know this from sales calls, but if you don't give people the right answers or insights for them to make an empowered decision, they might say things like, I can't afford this. I need to check with someone else. They're not standing in their power and saying, nope, I understand it and it's not a fit. So the sales page really needs to do that. So do you want to walk people through what that kind of layout of a sales page might be to help people get to that place? Yes, a hundred percent. And Natalie, you just said something super valuable. So all the different sales pages that you guys create for Boss Babe, for instance,

a majority of the people landing on those pages know who you are, know who Danielle are, know who Boss Babe is, right? So those pages are going to differ in structure to somebody brand new. So if you're brand new, then maybe you might need a little bit more information in your about section or your about section might need to be higher up to thoroughly introduce yourself. So a really big nugget of advice is to not necessarily copy like the layout of like Marie Forleo or Natalie's or Amy Porterfield sales pages, because those are going to be different than some of you out there who are just launching your first program. And you really need to up the credibility of who you are. And also knowing that the leads who land on

your page, they might be a little colder just to your overarching brand, not even necessarily whatever product you're selling. So just keep that in mind. And I think structurally, as you go through a page, it's really all about positioning the problem first and foremost. And a lot of that comes to that's like a really big story brand, Donald Miller thing as well. And then shedding light on the repercussions of not acting on that problem. And then you provide a solution and then you show results with data. So the way that we, from a granular level, the way that we recommend doing this, I think from a structural standpoint is really prioritizing the flow of the sections and our typical outline. And this was the outline

that we created our sales page templates with, are essentially the flow of starting with the hero section. And the hero section is the technical term of when somebody lands on your website on their desktop. When they first land on it, it's everything that shows up on that initial first part of the screen. And we call that above the fold. So that section is really meant to hook people to keep reading. So you have like a simple, concise little headline statement. You don't want that to be too fluffy or cumbersome. Somebody should get an idea about what it is that you're offering. Yet, it's just enough to hook them to keep reading to learn more info there.

And then if you're somebody who's been featured in different publications, things like that, we always like to include a social proof bar up there as well. And from a visual standpoint, too, we love starting this in the hero section. And we do this throughout the rest of the page is we love throwing in vertical elements. So like arrows or things going up and down from a user experience standpoint, that just kind of drives people to keep scrolling and keep reading. And then directly under the hero section, you know, you can do either a video or a countdown timer if it's an offer that's going to end soon. And then going back to something that's actually really important is highlighting benefits before features. So a benefit would be kind of like those pain point questions and then a solution

to them. So they're the overarching benefits of your program versus the features are like, okay, this is what's included. Eight modules, 10 videos, yada, yada. So you don't start with that because there's no emotion in that, right? However, people do need to know what that is. So you always start with benefits and then a feature section can come probably midway through the page. So underneath the benefits is where we like to weave in some information about the founder and it is important no matter what to include this because people are making this kind of investment they want to know like which person or group of people is putting this together and what makes

them qualified how did they you know and this is the where you really infuse those i used to be in your shoes statements and make them feel you can address different objections in here as well. And I think that the about section is a really fun way to like psychologically play with emotion and make the audience feel like you were literally in their shoes at one time and you found a way out and you will that you are then going to be the person showing them, empowering them to be the hero to get themselves out of that situation. I was just gonna to say I love that so much and I just wanted to dive in on the benefits section so for anyone listening who might be confused about benefits and features and how it may apply to them an example of a benefit might be take the guesswork out of creating content for social media after completing this

course so that's a benefit you're going to get from doing it which is speaking to your pain point where like you said the feature is like three five weeks, that kind of thing. Exactly. And that's what's going to really urge people to purchase it versus the actual videos that come along with it. Yeah. Okay. So keep going. Sorry to dive in. So, and then we love doing the, we always call it like this program is for you section where that too, you really put in a lot of emotion of like, this program is for you if you're really frustrated and have tried course after course and aren't finding results. And that's a really, we love throwing pain points in there. And we love throwing outcomes of pivoting and going another direction. That's a really great place to weave that into.

And then with the CTA buttons for your page. So if the page you're building is for a newer program or something that is a reasonable price point, let's call it under 3K, then we recommend a word count of about a thousand words for the page. If it is a higher ticket mastermind or if it's a higher ticket mastermind or if the person who is selling it

is more of the Boss Babes or the Marie Forleo's, then the length can certainly increase. The thing to keep in mind with increasing length is that is really when you have to get really strategic about how things are flowing visually and really make it easy to digest because it's not like you're writing a blog post where you can just dump a bunch of paragraphs. You really have to break things up, highlight certain phrases, bold them, enlarge them, make it easy to consume. We love sprinkling in a lot of carousels and sliders, never for the super pressing emotional parts of it, but for certain, we always do this for testimonials. And sometimes if there are a bunch of, when you're looking at the features,

if it's a bunch of different modules, we'll usually put that in an auto scroll carousel to really just break it up and make it digestible. The FAQs, you definitely want to do those as dropdowns as well. So when it comes to the call to action buttons, again, this depends on the length. So if you're doing a thousand, around a thousand words lengthwise, we recommend just doing one area for the call to action buttons at the bottom. If it's a bigger page, I would probably break up every 750 to 1000 words by another little call to action button section. So they're sprinkled throughout the page. So somebody doesn't get lost looking for them. And from a user experience standpoint, too, we always recommend selecting

a unique color for the call to action buttons. Meaning if let's say your brand, your branding for the program is red, white, and blue, you would want to use the color red solely for the call to action buttons and not use it anywhere else. That way, if somebody's scrolling super quick, it's the one place where they see the buttons and they recognize them and they really stand out. I think that's super important. You don't want people kind of getting lost in the sauce trying to find the purchase buttons. Those are very important.

And something that's really cool too, is really infusing some price anchoring in there. Like Natalie, have you seen those? Like those memes that came out in the coaching space the last couple of months with like, oh yeah, like going out to dinner costs a hundred bucks and that's okay. Hiring a mentor costs this much. So really infusing that in and being like, okay, for the price of 25 Starbucks lattes, you can get coached on how to do this. You know, so in kind of being fun and creative with that's really, I think really cool. You can have a little subheader underneath your CTA buttons to kind of really to object to any price pushback you might get. So I think that's always really fun, like the price comparisons. And then so the same idea goes with testimonials

as well. I would do those in probably about two different sections throughout your sales page, maybe one halfway through and one like three quarters of the way. And you can get really fun with the way you show testimonials to like, you don't always have to do just a paragraph. And then the person's name, we've done this a lot for boss babe, we've experimented with video testimonials. And then we'll do screenshots, like Instagram DMs and screenshots. And you can like video testimonials. And then we'll do screenshots, like Instagram DMs and screenshots. And you can like circle different statements. And then when you are doing the written out testimonials, it's really important to humanize the subject. So get a little photo of

them, get their first name. And then if applicable, get a little subheader about like their title or role or who they are, if that makes sense. And even with those, it's really important. I also like to front load the testimonials, like the most important statement in the testimonial, I like to put as like, put it above the main testimonial and make it a little bigger and stand out and then just bold certain words throughout them. So people aren't again, we don't want to overwhelm them with like big chunks of copy. Yeah, I agree. And for us putting screenshots on there has really worked. And sometimes it doesn't really go with the design it would be so much cuter to just have it written but it feels really

authentic and people can connect to it because it's legit it's like a dm we've gotten or yeah and it works and it's super unique to your brand too because instagram's a huge platform for boss babe so you know a lot of people landing on your pages found you from Instagram, whereas somebody else might be listening. And maybe they're they run a B2B business, and they get a lot of leads on LinkedIn, and they can kind of weave in a LinkedIn screenshot or something like that. So I'd put on your creative hat again, do not take a cookie cutter approach and see what Boss Babe does and try to replicate that. Boss Babe does what Boss Babe does due to strategy. And I think everyone has their own unique strategy that they can kind of roll up their sleeves and figure out how do I best hook my audience that's landing on this page? How did they find me? Where did they come from? How much

experience do they have with me? How much experience do they have with the product or service that I'm presenting? And then figure out a way to really to incentivize them from there. Yeah, I totally agree. And I also like what you said around price anchoring, because we found that too, especially with the society, which is a lower ticket item, it's $35 a month. And so being able to compare that to someone's daily coffee or something, it just gives a lot of perspective. And it speaks to that logical side of the brain, the emotional sides, like I'm going to learn so much and the logical's like, wait, if I can switch this for my coffee,

then it makes total sense. It's like a no brainer. Yeah, exactly. So it's always about like toggling between the two. And then I also was just loving what you were saying about like adding some personality into when you're introducing yourself as the founder. I think that's really important with sales pages.

I think it can be really easy to look at someone else's sales page and be like, okay, I'm going to do all of these things. And it can be quite dry. Whereas, especially when you're in a space where there might be lots of other people doing something similar to you, really the individual sell, if the program is the same, the individual sell is going to be you. And so if you don't really infuse your personality in there, then people are going to struggle to connect to you. Yes. And it's great too. So, and this kind of ties in branding, right? So I know we've spoken about all of the structural elements from a user experience standpoint. There's a whole other layer to sales pages, and that's all about brand, right? And this is what we did with Boss Babe. Each sales page we

built for you guys has a unique visual brand identity. It has a different brand and it has, even though they hit that main overarching segment of the female online entrepreneur that Boss Babe hits, they hit them at a different stage in their life and a different stage of their journey. So we've woven in different visuals to really hook them. But along those lines too, there's also changes you can make to tonality. And especially if you're a personal brand and you're selling a coaching service or a course or something like that, it's a great place to weave in your personality. And like a great example of this is Angie Lee. When we build pages for her, instead all of her call to action buttons on whether it's her homepage or sales page, they're never like learn more or reach out or submit. They're always

like very Angie. Like it'll be like, hook me up or like, holy cheese balls. Yes. It'll be very on brand with her. And I think that's a great way to infuse that more of your brand and that credibility and trust back to your audience. Yeah, I totally agree. And then again, when you were talking about this program is for you if that section it's so important and one thing that I always try to do on our sales pages is stay away from anything vague and really think about okay who is the ideal person for this program and I get really granular and chatting with clients one thing that I hear a lot is I'm really scared to get specific because they don't want to exclude people and actually I think it has the

opposite effect like if you really can sum someone up and show them that you understand where they are and you can help them self-qualify because they're seeing all of those points are like yeah this is exactly me it's not vague like have you been struggling with this or like just staying high level if you're like you've tried xyz and it hasn't worked because then this is for you and we did that a lot with online launch school because it was for five different avatars and so we had to get so specific about each avatar and say well you might be in one of these five situations and just digging into it and I think that was a big part of our success with that is because people could really self-qualify. There's so much beauty involved in like really niching down. And I

think the alternative comes from a place of scarcity when you're trying to cast a wide net, but you're not really speaking to anybody in particular if you're doing that. It's going to be a lot more challenging to make sales. Yeah, totally. And you touched on it before, obviously we came together to do some templates. So obviously, we touched on this before. Well, you mentioned it, we came together to create some templates. Now, there's a few different things that you do. And we've chatted about it on the podcast before about when people might not need a full brand design when they can do it on their own, when they might need something custom, and then when a template might apply to them. So will you just qualify people and let them know at what stage maybe a template would work for them versus like a full design? Yes. So this is the advice

our team always gives clients that come to us wanting one-on-one projects is we never recommend going all in with a custom brand or a custom website at the first time you're launching something. Because unless you've really proven your concept and you've shown that your theory of building a certain service for a certain demographic is gonna work, it's really, you might pivot down the line and you might change your service, you might change your niche, whatever it might be.

And then you've then spent the thousands of dollars on building a home for that product that you might not be using. And just also from a financial standpoint, it just makes sense to reinvest when you're ready. Right? So like, you guys are a great example, you DIY early on, you know, you built a seven figure business, and then you came to us for something custom and scalable. So that's really what inspired us to build this template shop together, you guys, because it's really built for people who are new, you're launching a new program and or you just want something quick and easy and you don't have a couple months for a

custom design. So we built these on Kajabi, which we love for building out info products. And they're basically blueprints for conversions. It's not just you know, you go on WordPress or Squarespace or a ton of different templates out there. but these are the only ones specifically for online entrepreneurs building out products or services that need a long form sales page. So we basically built them out as like our in-house and also like, you know, Boss Babe and Brand Up, we put our heads together to figure out this blueprint of how to build a highly converting sales page. And they're all, you have copy prompts in there. So they're really, it's just plug and play. You go in there, it tells you like, okay, this is where you put the pain points. So they're really, it's just plug and play. You go in there, it tells you like, okay, this is where you put the pain points.

Weave in emotion, add in this, add in this many different bullet points. And then once you do purchase them, you get access to a library of videos that we recorded together that come with each templates and shows you not only the technical components and how to customize them, but also it gives our tips on how to really,

how to brand, how to really infuse your brand into them and how to customize them. But also it gives our tips on how to really how to brand, how to really infuse your brand into them and how to make it unique. And we do a lot of handholding. So with that said, I think they're perfect for any of you guys out there that want to launch something and don't quite have the time or the resources, or it just doesn't make sense for you because you haven't quite proven your concept yet. I'm going to put a link below. So if anyone's interested in what that looks like, I'll just put a link below and you can check it out. But they are amazing. And I've seen so many people already start to build sales pages using them. And it's something that I wished I had in the beginning, because like you said, we didn't actually get any branding done until we had a seven-figure business. And so a lot of

our sales pages, I was just using platforms like Instapage or ClickFunnels, which by the way, I love, but the design just wasn't there. And it didn't look like the professional way I wanted it to look. There were just so many downsides to it. And the copy was great, but I just didn't feel like the design represented the brand. And I didn't feel comfortable spending thousands of dollars on getting something custom. Because like you said, like when you're figuring out what you're doing, things are changing all the time and you don't want to be tied into something custom. So I wish we'd done this earlier for people and I wish I'd had this, but I'm going to put a link below for anyone that's interested. I'm really curious right now, what kind of brands you're

loving? Like, is there any brands that you've seen new brands come out or any kind of anything that's really standing out to you as being done really, really well. Because for me, whenever I'm designing sales pages or, you know, new products within Boss Babe or anything like that, I take so much inspiration from brands already out there, even if they're in completely different industries. And I'm just curious what you're loving right now. Yes. So I think Natalie, you and I have very similar tastes with aesthetic. That's why I love working with you. But the funny thing you guys is outside of sales pages, like standard websites, what's really on trend right now is simplicity and brevity. Brevity in regards to

copy and brevity in regards to like having a lot of white space and minimal design. So sales page is different because you need to, again, take them through every stage of the buyer's journey and make it easy to consume. So it's going to have more elements than a standard page. However, when it comes to just standard brand design, package design, web design, I am obsessed with simplicity. I love Scandinavian design. I love black and white. I love that really blocky editorial look and just different pops of neon, things like that. And the places where I get inspiration is I go on Behance and Dribbble a lot. And those are both design resources. And I just follow certain designers that, like you mentioned, the products that I love the most, or the brands

that I love the most are so random, but I just love the way that they're built out. And I think any brand has that opportunity to weave that in like regardless of sector. Yeah. I love those sites too. And I also just love, and maybe you guys listening will have this, but if not, it's something good to start just a Pinterest board that starts to sum up what your brand looks or feels like and just slowly adding to it. So even if you're not at a point right now where you know exactly what your brand looks like or stands for, just something simple like a Pinterest board can really help everything come together. And we did it for Bosswave when we were doing a rebrand and I was adding to that

Pinterest board for what felt like months and months. But when it comes together, it really helps you paint that picture and everything else from there design-wise is pretty easy. Yeah. And you brought up a really good point too is creativity is, from my experience, is really challenging to force. So if you have a deadline, you're like, all right, I'm kicking off my brand. I need to get something together next week.

Let me make a mood board. It's gonna be really challenging. Where I found, and I think you're the same, Natalie, that when I know in the back of my mind that I kind of wanna get inspiration for something, I pick it up everywhere. I take photos when I'm out and about. I go on Pinterest. I follow a lot of different Instagram accounts. And then over time, I start putting together a vision of what feels right. I think forcing it and rushing it sometimes can be really detrimental.

Yeah, I totally agree. Well, thank you so much for coming on and explaining the full hierarchy of a sales page. I know for a lot of people, this was probably something we'll have to listen back to and really get notepad and pen out, but it's worth noting all of these little details that go into a sales page, whether you're creating something for a physical product, a program, even if it's a freebie lead magnet, like really thinking through what you can include in that page that makes it a no-brainer to someone has been amazing so thank you so much for doing this yeah of course thank you for having me love and then for everyone listening yeah we did collaborate with Anna on these theme shop templates they're absolutely amazing we've even been using them internally so if anyone's

interested I'm going to put the link below and you can check those out. If you loved this episode, please subscribe, download a few more, and please leave us a review. I really want to hear what you enjoyed, what your main takeaways were, and I also want to know what you want to hear us talk about next. To say thanks for leaving us a review, we'll send you a copy of The Boss Babe 25. The Boss Babe 25 is the 25 essential resources you need for personal and professional growth it covers everything from our favorite rituals books and hacks if you want a copy just leave us a review screenshot it and send to podcast at boss babe.com we will then email you a copy asap and since we love instagram you can go to the hashtag the boss babe podcast and find our latest

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