the bossbabe podcast - 13. Building a Skincare Business, Hiring The Best Team and Using Vision Boards to Manifest Your Goals

Episode Date: May 15, 2019

In this week’s episode, co-founders of BossBabe Natalie and Danielle are together in LA chatting with the queen of content, Allison Mcnamara. They dive right into her entrepreneurial journey from creating digital content for Who What Wear, Pop Sugar and Refinery 29 before creating content was even trending to being an influencer and owning and running her skincare line Mara. Allison is a multifaceted business woman, on one side she shares her secrets to creating content that people can relate to and on the other, she shares her skincare routine and the specific brands, products and supplements she uses and why. They chat openly about how they all started their businesses without having entire plans laid out and were able to learn on the go. Allison shares the challenges she has faced being a female entrepreneur and the only full time person working on her business while managing a team of freelancers. They dive deep into the personality struggles of being ambitious women and hiring ambitious women. They talk about the struggle they’ve all faced with hiring employees that have start up mentalities and Natalie and Danielle share the data-driven BossBabe hacks for finding the exact perfect employee. “If you don’t ask you don’t get” Don’t be afraid of no. This episode is sponsored by IGA. A twelve week accelerator designed to help you grow and monetize your Instagram account. www.instagrowthaccelerator.com  

The thing I love about us as being Boss Babes is one minute we can be talking about like data-driven hiring and the next skincare. Which is awesome. Most people are not scientists and skincare is science and so a lot of these ingredients actually don't work well together. I almost wish I could have bottled some of that confidence from my 20s sometimes, because I feel like when you're 20 and you know nothing, you feel like you know everything. And it's when you really do know a lot more that you realize how much more you don't know. Welcome to the Boss Babe podcast, a place where we share with you the real behind the scenes

of building successful businesses, achieving peak performance and learning how to balance it all. I'm Natalie Ellis, your host of this week's podcast and co-CEO of Boss Babe. Now in this week's episode, we are chatting with the queen of content herself, Alison McNamara. We're talking all about Alison's journey from creating digital content for Who, What, Where, PopSugar and Refinery29 before creating content, you know, was even trending to being an influencer and owning and running her own skincare line Mara which by the way I'm obsessed with the retinol oil is incredible. Alison is an incredible businesswoman and on one side she shares her secrets to creating content that people can relate to and on the other she shares her

skincare routine and the specific brands products and supplements she uses and why. So that brings me on to this week's quote and it's one that we actually pulled from the show and the quote is if you don't ask you don't get so firstly I love this quote and actually for those of you who don't know I'm from northern England if you can tell by the accent and up there we have a phrase which really sums up that quote and if I've got any Jordies listening I feel like you're about to just like pee yourself laughing the quote is are you ready for it shy Ben's getting out which essentially translates to shy kids get nothing and it's really really true you've really got to be willing to put yourself out there risk being told no and have confidence in yourself because honestly what's the worst that could happen and I remember when I was thinking of giving up my amazing graduate job offer that I got given right after I graduated from university

and you know to take the leap would have paid off all of my student debt I would have moved to London it would have been amazing all of the things but I had this feeling inside that I I just wanted to run my own business and it was terrifying and I honestly didn't know what to do and I remember sitting in a cafe in Newcastle back home with my friend Nick Pigeon and I was telling her how I'm feeling and I remember she said to me what's the absolute worst case scenario like what's the worst that could happen if you just say no to the grad job and you go and do your own business and what I realized was I could handle the worst case scenario and you know since I've taken that leap I've truly not looked back and I'm not saying it

was easy by any stretch but it really does go back to if you don't ask you don't get if you don't put yourself out there you're not going to receive whatever it is that you're going for so hopefully that just inspires you to go and raise your hand when you want something or you know be unapologetic with your ambition and so speaking of taking the leap I've got a little gift to share with you I know a lot of you are thinking of starting a business or are actually in the early stages of your journey and you're really wanting to scale your business to six figures so I've actually created an incredible free training for you. It's a 60 minute video training called Start Up to Six Figures in Six Months, which will show you how to do exactly that.

Start Up to Six Figures in Six Months. It will walk you through the roadmap you need to be scaling your business step by step, making the process really, really easy. And it works. We have helped so many women scale their businesses. So I know it could be a game changer for you if you're willing to take notes and then take action. So just head to bit.ly, that's B-I-T dot L-Y, bit.ly forward slash start up to six figures to get started on us. And let's just dive straight into this week's episode. A boss babe is unapologetically ambitious and paves the way

for herself and other women to rise, keep going and fighting on. She is on a mission to be her best self in all areas. It's just believing in yourself. Confidently stepping outside her comfort zone to create her own vision of success. So you are the queen of content. I'm just going to put that out there. You really know what you're doing when it comes to creating content that not only is engaging, but I mean, you've sent, it must mean thousands of pieces of content viral. Yeah. I mean, it's been a lot over the years, especially working at PopSugar and Refinery29. I mean, that really kind of set me up to figuring out like how to create and shoot content, which is wild how important it is now.

It's crazy. But how did you even get into this? Because you kind of started when content was really riding that wave and becoming more of a thing. And I think now people are creating so many pieces of content a day. But how did you even get started back then? Oh my gosh, I wanted to be a television host. That was like the goal, like Ryan Seacrest, E! News, like 6 o'clock p.m. entertainment news. That's what I wanted to do. I went to school for it. But I graduated in 2009. And so that was the height of the recession, at least in the US especially. Like there weren't any jobs for anyone. I had always done a ton of internships. I was at Who What Where at the time. And I wanted to be a television host, but this digital idea, I was like, this will do for now.

So I started doing digital content for places like Who, What, Where, and then got hired by PopSugar to create digital content. At the time, this was like no one wanted to do digital content. All the hosts wanted to do TV content, but I kind of carved out this very unique niche in the digital world where I was doing thousands of online videos. Like I think over the course of six years, I did like 3,000 videos for PopSugar. And yeah, it was just a lot. And that's kind of like what taught me that this was going to be the next thing. But I didn't get into blogging until later. You know, like I was so focused on hosting for like four and a half years. So like up until maybe like end of 2014 was I like, oh, I need to make content for

myself too, you know? But it was crazy. I mean, to look back, I see those videos. That's the only bad thing about the internet. They're there forever. Oh my God. I have some DIYs that are so bad. I like made a leather hat one time, like a DIY leather hat, and it was so bad, but it really taught me so much. So. I love that. What do you think is the secret to being able to create a piece of content that makes someone feel like you truly get them and relate to them? You know, I've had an easier time creating content for Mara than I have actually for myself. And I think it's because it has to really feel like emotive and like an emotional connection to it, right? Because my whole brand is about, like my personal brand is fashion and entertainment and beauty. But Mara, my skincare line is just so centered and so focused that I found the most

success when it has something that speaks to someone, whether it's like skin elements or like, you know, glowy skin, acne skin. Like when you're really speaking to someone who has an issue, I feel like that's when we've had the most success. I love that. And the thing I love about your brand too is you create content from something that I call like selling from power. You don't play on people's pain points, but actually you're like, oh, this is where you're at. I see you. This is what I recommend. Here's some steps rather than, oh, your skin is terrible. Let me fix it. It's like, oh, I totally feel you on that. Here's where we go with it. And I think it's so amazing to see content that is created from an empowering standpoint I think that's so true and how do you like get started with content because

I always felt like this is only an interesting topic you know lots of brands are utilizing it now but sometimes it's kind of intimidating to like know where to start and when you've done so many hours of content and you've seen like your own progression of what works best can you remember what it was like when you first started? Yeah, it's funny. I remember like kicking and screaming and like I wasn't into the idea of making content for myself. Like I loved creating it for PopSugar, but then they're like, okay, you need to tweet out your video. This is like when Twitter was like really big. You need to tweet out your video and then you need to like put it on YouTube and do all the hashtags

because we were putting our content on PopSugar.com, right? And so that part I was like, oh, this is like so much work. Like, I don't want to do this. You know, and this is 2010, 2011. You know, we didn't really see the long-term value in this yet, but I did it and it kind of got me into this habit of doing it. So by the time I was able to do it for myself, I was so excited, you know, and you kind of get to see the progress of it. But yeah, I think at the beginning, I thought, like, oh, my gosh, this is so much extra work. Like, tweeting out my video. Can we have an intern do it? Like, what a brat, you know?

Like, now today, I'm like, I do all the social for, obviously, myself and for my skincare line. So, and I work with main addicts, too. I don't head up the social there. We work very collaboratively. Like, it's all about content. So, it's kind of crazy to, like, like how it shifted over the years, you know? Yeah, I think it's shifted from kind of longer informative pieces where you put tons of work into it to creating content so quickly and just kind of being in that content flow.

But also before we started recording, we were talking about your skincare brand and your installs, your apps that you're killing it. And we were just saying, it's so funny because when you're running a business and you're doing something that you've never done, half of it is honestly just making up as you go along. Yeah, all of it. How did you even like get into this? Well, so I was a host for a decade at PopSugar and the Refinery29. And I've always had like this interest in beauty, my family's in beauty. So my dad worked in skincare and cosmetics growing up. And I always knew I wanted to have my own line.

I just wasn't sure when or how it would take shape. And so honestly, when I saw the decline of what you were just talking about, the long form content, which is what I did, you know, I had a 30 minute show. We actually had the first ever digital to TV show that was ever taken from like the internet to a television show.

But we kind of saw that no one was watching that. You know, people have three seconds on Instagram. It's like scroll, scroll. So I kind of reevaluated, like, do I want to keep hosting or do I want to do something that I'm really passionate about now? Because I'm a different person than I was 10 years ago when I wanted to be Ryan Seacrest, right? So, yeah, now, you know, I think that the way that we consume content is just so different.

So I decided to hunker down. What do I want to create? I came up with Mara. I was in Turkey. It's the Sea of Marmara is what inspired it. Then I created the brand and literally had no idea what I was doing. So everything from finding the lab to finding the distributor to finding the glass bottles, it was all new to me.

I bought the bottles without even having the formula done. And my dad's like, you bought what? I'm like, yeah, I just bought like 5,000 blue bottles because this guy was a great salesperson. He's like, you need these Mara blue bottles. They ended up being perfect. But yeah, it was just a lot of, and it still is, a lot of learn as you go. We're in a hundred stores, but we have just two SKUs. The one I brought today, which is the universal face oil and then the algae retinol oil. But I have more SKUs that we're launching. And honestly, each new SKU comes up with its own set of problems. So do you create every product?

Are you the one designing and creating them? Yeah, I work with a lab, but I create everything about the product. So even though I have a lot of people that work for me on like contract basis, like no one that actually works full time. So, you know, I have like a web designer that I work with in a, you know, someone who does my graphic design, but it's all very, like very dictated by like how I want it to look. So. I'd love to just zoom in a little bit on the whole, like buying those bottles, but not really having the whole like brand laid out, because I think that's really interesting about entrepreneurship and when you kind of need to follow your gut a little bit and just being like,

well, I don't really know how all this is going to work out, but I'm just going to do it. Do you feel like that's something that's come up for you a lot? I think that's like the entire process for me, honestly, you know, like that's been the whole process. You know, the blue bottles felt so right. And this was before we had the formula or even really a mood board like I hadn't even really thought about what is this brand going to look like I just had met with this packaging supplier I'd met with three actually met with this guy and he just sold me on them and he's like you need them and I believed it and now here we are and honestly it's integral to the brand like that color we call it Mara blue now and we've you know emulated it

for all of our products so yeah I feel like that is a good example of that. And the entire process really has led itself to just a bunch of different choices I made that not knowing if it was going to be the right choice. Like the painting on the top of the box was created by a female painter. My friend actually has the original in her house. And that was constantly on the mood board. And I couldn't figure out what I wanted the box to look like. I'm like, I guess there won't be a box. Like, I can't even figure out what this should go in. And my dad, who obviously like advises me throughout the whole process, was like, you keep bringing up this piece of artwork, like maybe reach out to the artist and see if you can get the rights to it. And I was like, there's no way, you know, and then I did. And now it's on

the box. And she's created custom artwork for us way, you know, and then I did and now it's on the box and she's created custom artwork for us for the rest of our products too, which is really cool. Amazing. I love the thought process behind that as well, because I sometimes think we put barriers in our way. We're like, oh, that wouldn't happen. That wouldn't happen. Like these things that sometimes you're like, no, and then you just ask and it's like, oh yeah, that's fine. Like we can do this. And I think that's something like a lesson for all of us. Like, it's just like taking that step and going, actually, do you know what? I'm going to double click on this.

I'm going to see if I can make this happen. I'm going to ask these questions. Because that's one thing I've personally learned through my entrepreneurial journey. Like, the businesses that I've been invested in have been like, I've actually gone out and said, can I invest in this business? Or can I be part of this? Like, I've actually gone out and said, can I invest in this business? Or can I be part of this? Like I've just said it. And it might not even be like a straightforward yes at the beginning, but once you kind of put that out there, when you plant that seed, and then people know what your intentions are, quite often it's amazing how things start kind of falling in place to make that happen. Yeah. I think it's all about asking, you know,

and I was always very nervous about that. I don't't know why but I think it's just who I am like I've always been nervous like oh I don't want to like bother them or I don't want to ask them like there's no way they'll do that but I think this process has really opened me up to like I literally ask for everything now because what's the worst they can do is say no you know let's take a quick pause to talk about my new favorite all-in-one platform Kajabi you know I've been singing their praises lately because they have helped our business run so much smoother and with way less complexity, which I love. Not to mention our team couldn't be happier because now everything is in one place, so it makes collecting data, creating pages, collecting payment, all the things so much simpler. One of our mottos at Boss Babe is simplify

to amplify and Kajabi has really helped us do that this year. So of course I needed to share it here with you. It's the perfect time of year to do a bit of spring cleaning in your business, you know, get rid of the complexity and instead really focus on getting organized and making things as smooth as possible. I definitely recommend Kajabi to all of my clients and students. So if you're listening and haven't checked out Kajabi yet, now is the perfect time to do so because they are offering Boss Babe listeners a 30-day free trial. Go to kajabi.com slash Boss Babe to claim your 30-day free trial. That's kajabi.com slash Boss Babe. And sometimes it's not even bothering, is it? It's not, but you think it is

in some weird way. But I can totally relate to you. And I think that's where not but you think it is in some weird way but I can totally relate to you and I think that's where me and you differ Danielle because it's so funny I think you were like what 24 when you were like can I buy your business to a guy you're working for your man yeah she was like can I buy your business and he was like not yet just like okay I'll come back soon can I buy your business now and I mean eventually you you did and you've you are a serial entrepreneur and we're both in a space now where we're very interested in mergers and acquisitions and acquisition of both companies, but also acquisition of really good people who you look at them and you think they're so happy in their role. And it's so funny how we kind of build each other up to just go and ask, well, what would it look like if you go and actually ask that person if they're happy in their role? What would it look like if you don't just go and ask them what would it look like to buy your business?

And sometimes we wait for opportunities to come because it can be quite scary because, yeah, you think you're bothering them. But I don't know if it's a phrase in America, but in the UK we have a phrase, if you don't ask, you don't get. So many things have happened to me. Like the first time I ever met Richard Branson, I was in school and I pretended to be a reporter at Bloomberg so I could sneak in and like chat to him. Oh my gosh. That's amazing. But it's so funny what like happens when you just kind of, you know, it's like, you know what, if the answer is no and I'm okay with that, I can survive. But you mentioned a couple of things that I want to touch on. The first thing is you seem to build your brand before the product. And you hear this of a lot of very, very successful brands. And it's something that we did with Boss Vape too. Oh, really? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Makes you feel good. Yeah. So what was that like

for you building a brand when you didn't even know what products you were going to have? I think that was the most magical part, right? You know, I just, I knew I wanted to create something that evoked a feeling and, you know, made you feel glamorous when you put it on. And it was really high efficacy. We're a clean brand, so really clean ingredients. I had like all the bones of what I thought it was going to be, but then really it took shape once we finished the formula and it kind of echoed the same thing, which was so interesting. But yeah, I think that the brand I built up in my mind like long before the product, I think this has been like over and over like many years, right? Like I kind of started taking shape when I was in college. Like I knew I wanted to create a skincare line or a beauty line of some sort. And it's just like years of thinking about

it, I think. I love that. You know, before, which is kind of crazy. And like on, do you guys do vision boards? Is that a thing? Okay. So I don't know if it's like a US thing or if it's an everywhere thing, but I've been doing those since I was a kid and always was having like a beauty line. So I thought that was kind of cool that it finally kind of came true. We're obsessed with vision boards. And I think it's honestly crazy how you can like mindlessly cut out a picture for a magazine that you think is symbolizing one thing. And then you put it on your vision board and then actually you'll get that exact thing that you put there. And you're like, wait, I didn't even know I was manifesting this. One of my friends, she was showing us her vision board because she hosted a vision board party a few weeks ago and we kind of all got together to create vision boards and she showed us

hers and she'd cut out a actual room in a hotel and it was this beautiful like private island amazing suite and it was amazing view and she put that on her vision board and she had no idea why she's like it just looked really good I felt like I'd love a vacation there. And fast forward a few years, she met her husband, married her husband, and he planned the honeymoon. And it just so happened that was on Necker Island and the picture she printed out, she stayed in that exact room. Oh my gosh. And it wasn't even planned. That's crazy. I believe in it. I mean, you put energy into anything and it'll come back. Maybe not right away. Maybe it's three years later, but it's pretty incredible how that works. Yeah. When did you start doing vision boards and how? Is that something your parents had introduced? No, I don't know how, honestly. Like it was always

something that we did though. I was always really into scrapbooking. I'm trying to remember when we first did it. I know I've always like loved scrapbooking and, you know, back before we had, you know, cell phones that had, you know, incredible cameras with these, like, very robust libraries. You know, you had, like, digital cameras and, you know, you printed out the photos. I feel like it started then and it was just stuff that I always wanted to do or things that I wanted to work on and it just took shape and then it became, like, self-care, right? You know, now it's, like, wellness, vision board. But, you know, I've been doing it probably for a decade. So, yeah, I think it just came from scrapboarding and then like, oh, this is pretty and making your binders. But like my binders were always things that I wanted to like achieve, you know, when you were to make those when you were younger.

So I think it kind of started from then. And do you feel like as a successful entrepreneur now, you still follow those same methods? Like has that process changed for you at all? Or is it literally like it was 10, 15 years ago too? I appreciate the successful entrepreneur part because I feel like I'm just getting started. There's a lot to do. Don't we all know?

Yeah, there's a lot to do. So I appreciate that. But yeah, I think my process is still the same. There's no formality to it. I mean, now it's more in the form of Pinterest because I hate wasting paper and trees and it is a little selfish. I do it once a year for the new year.

I'll do like the big vision board where I cut up a bunch of magazines. But for the most part, selfish. I do it once a year for the new year. I'll do like the big vision board where I cut up a bunch of magazines. But for the most part, I try and do it on Pinterest. But for each product, I do vision board, like the product before we even have like a name or the ingredients. I just kind of like want the feeling. So yeah, I still do that. I do that for everything. And I do that for Main Addicts too. We have vision boards like across the gamut because Main Addicts is Jen Atkins' hair website. Oh, gotcha. Yeah.

And so we're all about like all different types of hair, style, styling, colorists, all that good stuff. And so we just are constantly vision boarding. I think it's so important, right? I think so. It's so important. And for us, whenever we create a brand on the Boss Babe or a new brand entirely or a product we start everything on Pinterest I normally go in there and I spend a day just like vision boarding and pulling all together then our designer comes in and tries to make sense of what's going on in my head because there's always certain themes

and colors and she's very good at that mix between creative and then okay let me distill what you're thinking and we'll put it together in a brand board and I think starting there helps you to notice the themes that you're feeling like you were saying with the blue and the art if that theme keeps coming then there's obviously something to it and another thing you touched on which I want to bring up you said you're the only full-time person and you have freelancers working for you you are very very creative I try to be so how do you manage having a team of freelancers, but knowing, I mean, essentially the business falls on you? How do you find that?

I like it. You know, I'm an Aries and I just like to be in control. So I don't mind it. But now, you know, the company has gotten a lot bigger since we started, you know, a year ago. So, I mean, even though I've been doing the business for like three years, like last year is when we launched. And so we're in a hundred doors now. I do find that like I need someone that's

full-time. It's just hard to find the right person. I was talking to your girls, actually. They're amazing. Like if you guys found amazing women, it's hard to find people that want to work in the startup space. I think people are either really excited about it or they're not. So it's hard to find that person that melds really well with, you know, the founder and is into this like startup mentality. But most of the people that I've hired as our contractors are all friends. Not like super close friends, but people that I've known like for years and I trust. And, you know, they're not necessarily doing me a favor. They're excited about the project, but I also know they're not going to like up and leave me.

You know, they would definitely give me plenty of time. You know, it's just kind of friends that I ended up hiring and it's been really helpful so far. So thanks for being so honest about it being hard. We have built an amazing full-time team and part-time team. And I mean, we are growing our team faster than we can say team. It's crazy. It's amazing. But one thing that we have realized is it is incredibly hard. And whilst we look at companies who seem to be able to just have a knack of finding good people, honestly, it was one of our biggest struggles and still continues to be one of our biggest struggles. And I don't know if you felt like this, Danielle, but we've had roles open for quite a long time and we've been doing outreach and interviewing and it's taken a really long

time to find that exact person. And when they come, they are the most perfect fit. Like it couldn't feel more aligned and it all kind of works out but that process it could take months to find that person and I found myself in that process being really hard on myself in terms of like I had this story that I was really bad at hiring I was like I'm just not good at finding right people I need to outsource this to a recruitment company I need to do this and actually I started to change that story and be like no I actually believe that I know exactly who I'm looking for and what I want and the people that are coming to us so far aren't that. Did you ever feel the same? I didn't feel the

same but I did feel that I think one thing that we're trying to do at Boss Space is we're trying to redefine how we do business and for us it's not only hiring people with the right skills but actually it's a personality piece for us and we before we bring anyone on full time we actually get them to do personality tests because our culture is so so important for us women traditionally you can have this whole like oh they can be bitchy and work or even in startups it can be very much like this hustle mentality speaking over each other and really trying to like push and make those like almost like power struggles and we've been really really felt quite strongly about not allowing that into Boss Babe that's not what we're about and we've spoken on previous podcasts about you know it being a vessel for a lifestyle for all of us

and it being about enjoying going to work. And I think that that's why we've perhaps found it a little bit more challenging because they need the skills, but they also have to have the right personality because we want the whole team to enjoy being at work. Totally. I would like to say not work, so it's like something they're doing in the day. Yeah, and like what you said, even when you're a small team like myself, like such a small team, you know, it is a full-time job trying to find people to hire. So when you're managing the whole business and then still doing other businesses and, you know, I work for Maine Addicts, like I said, and still do a lot of influencer work on the side with Sephora and L'Oreal. It's like, okay, I've got to manage all these projects and my business and then I have to find someone to work with me. Like, that's crazy.

So, yeah, it's definitely a full-time job trying to find, like like the right person. And I agree, it has to be personality and skill set. And you know, I think that that's the cool thing about being a female entrepreneur is that we are breaking the mold of having that crazy pressure type of work situation that at least I had a lot of in my earlier years. And you know, the yelling and scolding at each other or screaming in front of people, like, it's not okay, you know? So it's cool that we're changing that. I love that. And I think sometimes, you know, in businesses, and I've heard this before, you can be told you're a sports team, but you're kind of all playing on different teams. So you kind of might be playing against each other sometimes. And we have this kind of family mentality where, yes, we are a team, but we're all on the same team

and driving towards that's super important. But yeah, like you said, it can be a full-time job. I have discovered a hack, though, if you'd like. I love the hack. I'm all ears. Okay. So for one role, that was just, we needed someone with a lot of different skills. And so I mind mapped out everything that would, my dream employee would have. All the different skills, all the softwares they'd be familiar with.

Everything you can imagine that I wanted out of a person. I was like, this is my ideal person. And I took the type form, which is like a place to create surveys and questionnaires online. It's very easy to use, amazing, beautiful UI. And I basically put all of that into a type form. So it was kind of like an application form

where it was rate your skills for say copywriting on a scale of one to three I didn't give them one to ten because I'm like listen you're either bad good or really good yeah let me just keep it tight here so I did that and then I asked questions like have you got experience using this software yes or no okay if yes give examples and so then what I could do is go back and actually look if this application is mostly no's and one's then generally they're not the right person for us if this application is more threes and they've really put time into all of their answers and they're answering yes then we should interview them because one thing

that we found stressful in the beginning was send us your cover letter and cv and you know we've made bad hiring decisions too where someone's looked amazing on paper and did really well in an interview, but then we've seen their work and it just hasn't been the same fit. And so that was very good for me. Yeah. I'm going to have to try that. I love that idea. I mean, it makes it very simple. And I'm also like OCD about just information. So it's kind of all tucked away for you right there. All tucked away. I love that. You just zoom through it. It's made life easier. I'll have to try that. I love that. And I think sometimes as well, like when you're coming into a startup and new business, like we're all ambitious women, right?

We're sat on this conversation and we're ambitious. And I think that can take on two forms, whether it's, you know, setting up your own business or whether it's actually like working up the career ladder. And I'd love for us to chat like some of those struggles, like those personality struggles of being an ambitious woman. Because I find that sometimes my head is like 10 steps ahead of my physical world. And that can be like a struggle sometimes. Totally. I feel like I've gotten a lot better about that now, but I remember being young and working at PopSugar and I had this amazing like role for myself at the time. I was the host and producer at this dream job, but I just wanted so much more. And I thought, you know, when you're young, you just think that like, you're the best at everything,

you know, and you have this like self-complex where you're like, I know what I'm doing. I don't need any guidance. Like y'all don't know what you're doing. And you know, these people are now my age or older than I am now. And so looking back, I'm like, okay, they were really nice in how they dealt with me at times because I just thought, like, my shit did not stink. Yeah, I mean, but I do think that, like, tenacity got me really far in the hosting space. You know, I, you know, hosted the Emmy-winning show for the Oscars, the Backstage Pass, which was their, like, pre-red carpet show. I did, like, Dick Clark shows. So it really got me far. But I think that confidence and that tenacity I had also was like a little much for the time.

But now as like an adult, I'm over 30, and I feel like I finally come into my own. I feel like I can deal with people like my old self better. And you can help shape them. I just wish someone like would have helped shape me. How? I don't know. I think that people were really quick to put me down when I worked there, and it kind of made me stronger. But I think that if I had the right mentor in that space, I could have really grown even farther faster instead of going through a lot of hurdles.

There was a job that I really wanted at PopSugar. It was to host our live show. And we were starting this new live show. No one had done this sort of live, two-hour-long daily show, and we were going to do it. And so I had been there the longest. We all tried out for the position,

and I thought I deserved it. And I still actually think I did deserve it. But they went with someone else, and I wish they would have taken the time to tell me why maybe I didn't get it. And it was those types of moments throughout my career that I just wish I would have

had someone like helping me a little bit, like giving me a little bit of guidance. Do you think you would have listened to the guidance? Probably not. That's always really interesting too, right? Because I do sometimes think like, if I was managing my 24-year-old self, like how I would deal with that. I mean, you essentially started part managing me when I was 25. And I definitely thought I knew everything. Isn't that funny?

We have so much confidence when we're in our early 20s. Like, I almost feel like being an entrepreneur, you know, you have like the ups and downs, right? You're on top of the world. And then, you know, what am I doing? Like, I know nothing. You have those moments like on a weekly basis for me. I almost wish I could have bottled some of that like confidence from my 20s sometimes. Because I feel like when you're 20 and you know nothing, you feel like you know everything. And it's when

you really do know a lot more that you realize how much more you don't know. I can relate to that. I'm a Capricorn, so I generally think we're the best at everything. My girlfriend's a Capricorn. She's tough. But you're very conversational, so you must have a little bit more in your chart yeah Leo Moon okay yeah that makes a lot of sense that makes sense but also I think just I used to be a solo entrepreneur so I didn't me Danielle didn't used to work together so for a long time I was a solo entrepreneur and you have to like you'll know you have to have that confidence and also you have to be multi-talented like I had to know how to code the back end of a website whilst creating content that was going to work, whilst, you know, showing up like the face of the business.

Like I was doing everything you can imagine, then dipping into customer service emails. And so you have to have that confidence in yourself to be able to get things done. And me and Danielle started working together when I was 25 and it's been a couple of years now. And I think actually having a co-founder now has helped me become more emotionally in tune

to working with people. Because when you're that solo entrepreneur and you've got all these different people, you're used to being like, okay, you do this, you do this, giving very direct feedback. Whereas I think when you're co-founders, it's more of a give or take type thing.

And you have to be very mindful of the longer term relationship and also how you give feedback and how people like to be given feedback. Yeah, that yeah and all of that I think comes from just experience I mean we're all so different and some of us are more emotional some are less more some of us are direct others aren't and that's kind of another reason we make people do personality tests when they come so we can really figure out okay and I always look at what star sign they are too but we look at what kind of person they are so okay I've got this feedback what's the absolute best way I can deliver it to this person so I mean firstly so that I don't hurt their feelings so

I'm being respectful and then also so I can get the most out of them if someone doesn't come and give me direct feedback like I take things very literally then I might not even be hearing what they're saying and they think they've communicated to me I'm like oh great everything's so good and then a month later they've communicated to me. I'm like, oh, great, everything's so good. And then a month later, they're upset with me again. I'm like, wait, did we even have that conversation? Yeah. So it's really good to do that testing. There's a really good book called How to Win Friends and Influence People.

I just reread it because it had been years since I'd read it. And there's just such basic life lessons in there, but it's kind of exactly what you said, just how to give critiques, how to talk to people of different personality types. I mean, I think everyone should read it. Yeah. I think it's just really important to be aware of all this stuff if you want to be furthering your career in any shape or form and really understanding those communication pathways. And we should really share which ones that we do because I know people are thinking like, well, what personality test are they doing? Yeah, I want to hear that. I mean, go for it because you're Virgo and crazy about testing. Oh, you're Virgo. I'm a Virgo rising. Yeah, I'm very Virgo as well. So before people join, we do the Myers-Briggs and

we do the wealth dynamic test, which is one that's not everybody really uses. It's one particularly aimed at entrepreneurs, which is really, really interesting. But then we also get people to do the love languages because for us, it's really important that if we want to pay a compliment to somebody, the team member is doing well, we need for us, it's really important that if we want to pay a compliment to somebody, the team member is doing well, we need to make sure it's in a form that they are actually receiving too. So whether that's your gifts or whether it's acts of service, yeah, or words of affirmation, that's been really important for us to know because we do have differences within our

team. Some just love a pat on the back, whereas actually other members do prefer that. They want a physical gift to know that they've done really well. I think I want to be that person too. Expensive ones. Yeah, really nice gifts. No, that's actually a great idea. I never thought to even implement the love language test, but I think that love is so much more than just your romantic partner. Yeah. And I feel like Myers-Briggs has really helped us understand

particularly the thinking and feeling part. So myself, I'm definitely a feeler and so Natalie is more of a thinker and so how I would interpret things she would say to me were different and vice versa and so that was like I think one of the things that we definitely had to work together to understand so like if she says something that maybe when we first started working with each other I would think was a little bit harsh actually now I know I'm like she doesn't even mean it like that she'll like it's just her way of communicating and vice versa she knows that I can be a little bit more sensitive over certain things so then that's really important and then we do the wealth dynamic one to really understand like the seats that we put people in so like

actually what their roles are within the company because some people are are more left brain, whereas others are more right brain. And so people are very more data focused and other people just really want to be on the creative side of being effective, but not really worrying about the devastation that they leave behind. And I said that from an operational head. Operation is tough. I mean, that's the part that's been the hardest for me. I think that's the case for a lot of creative entrepreneurs. It's definitely not my strong point. Like I move very, very quickly. And I think in operations, you have to move a little bit slower and make sure your ducks line up. But then there's that thing where they can slow down the creatives. Oh, every single time. I mean, we're like fully done with the third product, but it's like we're

waiting for the bottles to get manufactured. They have to come over from Korea. It takes, you know, they say two to three months. But like last time with my retinol oil, they fell off the boat. They like they couldn't find the bottles. Like the boat had, yeah, but they actually have not fallen off. They said that they had fallen off. They ended up being on the boat. But the boat was lost for like three weeks.

It hit the biggest. Yeah, it hit the biggest hurricane that had ever happened off the coast of Asia. And so our boat just happened to be, you know, in the middle of that. And I was like, well, how about the guy driving the boat? Like, is everyone okay? But everyone was fine. Just, you know, three weeks delayed for no reason. And we had no clue why.

It's like crazy stuff like that. The stress that must come with that. Oh, my God. It must be, yeah, a lot. You know, I don't break out a ton just because I feel like I have my regimen like pretty down pack. But the only thing that really affects me is my cortisol levels and stress with my skin. And yeah, that was definitely, it put me through the ringer. I was like, exploded. It was wild. Yeah, it was so stressful, but.

I can imagine that. The thing I love about us as being boss babes is one minute we can be talking about like data-driven hiring and the next skincare, which is awesome. You've mentioned two of the oils you have. I've got one right here, which looks amazing. And you must be wearing one right now. Yeah, I only really wear the universal face oil like every day. And then the retina oil is a nighttime oil. But yeah, I wear the oil every day like with my makeup.

I don't wear a ton of makeup, honestly. I'll wear like not a ton of face makeup per se. Like I'll wear just a little bit of spot concealer and sometimes I'll do like a blush or something. But yeah, I kind of just wear it all day and I soak in it. I love it. Can you tell me what your skincare routine is? Because I know you guys can't see it, but you have the most perfect skin I've ever seen. Oh, thank you. I've been admiring it this whole time. Really? Yeah, we're girls who notice skin. You know, Nat and I are both open about how we suffer with our skin, so we're always looking at people's like... Our hormones are very up and down on us. It's definitely like a, you know, it's not the same road for everyone. My skincare routine is not

that crazy either, but I've been using retinol for 20 years. Retinol is like the secret to my skin. That's why I wanted to create Mara, actually, was to create retinol that people could use who have sensitive skin, who could use it every single day. Because retinol, which is synthesized vitamin A, can be really tough and hard on the skin. And so I created this retinol oil, which I'll have to get you guys. It's not the one here. It's intense, but it's really good. I mean, it's great for sensitive skin, but it still has the efficacy I mean, it's great for sensitive skin, but it still has the efficacy of like a strong retinol. And so I use that every night. So like my nighttime skincare routine is I wash my face with Tata Harper. I use almost all clean beauty.

I don't use anything with like silicones, no dimethicone, PEGs. I'm crazy about that. So Tata Harper resurfacing cleanser. It's amazing. It's a dry cleanser. And then I put on the retinol oil directly on clean skin. And then usually I'll take, you know, I know with supplements, I always say like you have to talk to your doctor first, but I love taking it in the evening, like an ashwagandha and cordyceps, anything to help balance those cortisol levels that keep your body not stressed out because stress is one of the main causes besides hormones for our acne and skin. So I'll take like a wellness pill. I'll let the retinol sink in. And then I just put on the universal face oil and that's it. Oh, so you do the two oils? Yeah, back to back. Oh, interesting.

Yeah. And they were made to work together. The retinol, while it is hydrating, it's got fermented green tea and algae, our proprietary algae. It still is a treatment. So I always say you should hydrate. And whether it's, you know, our product, the universal oil or something else that's really low, you don't want to have anything that has like high fragrance, right? It's just be very nice, like light moisturizer. If you do use something on top of the retinol oil, like that's kind of all you need. And then the morning I, I don't necessarily always wash my face in the morning. Sometimes I just splash with water. I don't want to like over mess up like the oils on my skin. You know, I feel like sometimes even with like light cleansers, it strips away too much.

Just kind of listen to my skin. And then I do vitamin C. I love Drunk Elephant, which I know isn't like a totally clean brand, but I think that their vitamin C is amazing. I also like Derma E. Have you heard of Derma E? Yeah. Yeah, I like their vitamin C. And then I use the universal face oil.

And then SPF, obviously. You've got to wear SPF. What's your favorite SPF? Oh my gosh. I get asked this question. It's so hard, honestly. I love Kula Sundrops, but it still has avobenzone, which is an ingredient that I'm still not sold on. That's a chemical sunscreen. But for physical sunscreens, which are the ones that are titanium oxide or zinc. I like Drunk Elephant has a good one. Suntegrity has a good one. It's tough though. Supergoop's great too, but I do find that some of the Supergoop ones clog my pores. I like the Supergoop spray just to keep in my bag. I do too. I have a setting mist. I put it on my hands in the car. Oh, the hands is a good idea. Yeah. That's why I use it in the car. I just spray my left side. Yeah, it's handy. I also love the It Cosmetics CC Cream, which I don't think is fully clean,

but it's the best CC Cream and SPF that I've found so far, which I never wear foundation ever. I only ever wear a BBS CC Cream, which I love. I also love how simple your skincare routine is. I was speaking on a panel a few months ago. One of the questions was, what fashion style would you like to come back from the 90s? Like if you could revive any kind of trend from the 90s, what would it be? And for me, it would be bare face. Because I feel like makeup is such an amazing trend that really is picking up. And I think it's so much fun. But I also just love how in the 90s, you know, being really fresh faced and not feeling like you had to wear a ton of makeup was also amazing. And I love to wear minimal makeup. Yeah, it's the best. Yeah. So I'm definitely waiting for that trend to come back because I love a contour as much as the next person. But also, I mean,

we're so busy. I think it's back. I think the no makeup makeup look is going to be, you know, just getting bigger and bigger over the next few years. But I just really am against like the 10-step skincare routines because most people are not scientists and skincare is science. And so a lot of these ingredients actually don't work well together. You know, you shouldn't use like a BHA or an AHA on the same night as a retinol. But then I look at girls on Instagram showing their skincare routines and they're using, you know, a retinol based cream, but then they use an AHA before and you basically just counteracted yourself. This is so interesting, but I do find it a bit of a minefield.

It is. Where do you find this information? Like, how do you know that? Well, one, you know, I grew up with my family working in skincare. So in like fifth grade, I knew the difference between benzoyl peroxide and salicylic acid, which are two common ingredients to fight acne. But yeah, just over like a lot of research, honestly. There's not enough education really out there. I know there's so many articles though. Like if you go on to any of the major beauty sites, you'll probably find an article on ingredients that don't go together. But I don't think as brands that they're educating the consumer enough. So it's been really important for us at Mara to guide our consumers to tell

them, okay, if you're using the retinol oil, like, you can still use an acid because I think a great skincare routine has both acids and retinols, but you can't use them the same night. It's basically like wasting product because they just don't work well together. They need different pHs for the skin. And so while the acid makes it very acidic, the retinol doesn't like that. So it kind of counteracts itself is the easiest way of describing it. That's super interesting.

There's, like, much more, like, science behind it. I don't know if it works out here, but I the easiest way of describing it. That's super interesting. There's like much more like science behind it, but. I don't know if it works out here, but I found an app in the UK called Think Dirty. You can take a photo of the ingredients on your product and it'll tell you like how clean it is. Yeah, I think that that's out here too. I've heard of it. I've never tried it because. It doesn't have all of them. Yeah.

It's like the main products, but it was really interesting because I do find like it's a little bit of a mind film. I really try and eat all organic food and I was was like, hang on a minute, what am I putting on my face? Like what am I showering with? And so I did a bit of a clear out on some of my products which was really interesting. Our body, you know, is our largest organ, our skin, 60% of everything you put on it absorbs. So it is really important to be mindful. And that's why with Mara, I was really strategic about where we went first for our first major retail partner. And we chose Credo Beauty, which is the largest natural clean beauty store in the country

here in the US. They're amazing. They have a really tough vetting process for all of the products that go inside their stores. I honestly shop mostly at Credo, but there's also some other great stores like the Detox Market is really wonderful. And they're like, you know, smaller little like green beauty stores around the country, but they really do an amazing job at vetting the ingredients because, you know, fragrance that could be, you know, a thousand different ingredients, you know, it's just, it's crazy. I love that. I love when a store or a brand

makes it easy for you and just pulls it all together. Cause I was the same, like we will not have any chemical cleaning products in our house and so whenever a cleaner comes like we're like oh no these are the specific ones we want to use because you truly just have no idea how bad these things are for you and I think as women especially I mean so many ingredients play so much with your hormones and affect your estrogen levels and everything so I think we just need to be so on it and And regulations in the UK is not even great, but in the US, even lower with skincare and products, they really can throw so many different things in it, which is terrifying. Yeah. I mean, the EU is a lot better than the US.

We haven't updated our laws in 80 years. And as someone who has products that are EU compliant, you know, it's definitely, you know, in the US, you could kind of just make something in a way and put it to market on Amazon. Granted, you wouldn't get into like a major store doing that. There are, you know, types of tests you have to do like the human repeat patch test and the water activity test. There are some tests you have to pass to put a product to market in the U.S. But the EU, they do a full review of like everything that touches the product, every ingredient inside the product. I mean, they check a lot more, so. So firstly, finding all of that out for you

must have been really, really tough. Thankfully, you have an amazing mentor in your family that can help you, but I still imagine it was so tough. What's been one of the most challenging things you've had to deal with as a female entrepreneur? It's all of the operations, you know, because all of it, all of it.

Honestly, it's getting better. But every single part of that process has been tough for me. It has been a struggle. And, you know, I do think a lot of the people that I deal with, I do deal with a lot of men. And I think that when I talk to them and I try and, you know, at least pretend like I know what I'm talking about, even if I don't, because they can talk down to you a lot. I can like count several times where that's happened. But yeah, all of the operations, just figuring out how to manufacture a product, how to get things from point A to point B.

We own our formulas. So I'm in contact with every single supplier. So I like, I have a full vetting process on that. But yeah, just getting everything together and then like getting it out. And then I guess the hardest thing was getting my first product sold on Cult Beauty. When I met the woman who's wonderful,

the buying director for Cult Beauty, she was like, are you guys EU compliant? And I was like, yeah, we're working on it. And we kind of had been, but like we really hadn't. I knew the company I was going to go with, but like we hadn't started the process. And so we got that product to market in like two and a half months, which is unheard of. We got it through EU compliant. And that's because I was so religious and going directly to the suppliers and to everything like that I needed to get the PIF, which is what you need to become compliant. I got all of the paperwork together, but that like, oh my gosh, just, it was a lot of like chasing and I was like crying. It was a lot, but it happened and we're now sold there, which is amazing. I'm doing it right now though for the second product

and I feel just like I did before. So it's a lot of— Just, like, starting from the beginning. It's just a lot of, like, chasing and a lot of, like—you know, I didn't come from, like, an administrative background. So everything I've done has been pretty creative. I was a writer, and, you know, that's kind of how I got my start into hosting. Never did I have to, like, do all of these different, like, Google Docs or, like, Excel sheets and product formula breakdowns. That's not how my brain works. So that's been crazy for me. I can look at a master ingredient list and break

down a formula, but I could not have done that a year ago. So yeah, it's just a lot of learning. It's amazing just how much you're like, okay, I'm going to Google this. My first business was built from Googling things. What is this? Okay, let me just Google it. Google's everything. And in our early days, we had a rule. We're like, don't ask Natty and I if you haven't Googled it yet. Because we're probably just going to need to Google it too. I know.

It's crazy. But you can really find out, like, anything that you need to know on Google. I mean, that's kind of how, yeah, I built my whole business too. Because that's how I found, like, the glass supplier. And, yeah, even though my family does work in the business, like, no has built a brand, especially an indie beauty brand in the clean space. So none of us knew what we were doing. And my dad is really busy. And so he doesn't help me that much, but he is a nice soundboard. But yeah, half the time I'm calling him like, what is this like EU compliance that we're going through or Canada compliance? And I'll ask him for this stuff. And he's like, I have

no clue. He's like, have you Googled it? Yeah, he's like, have you Googled it? I love it. What was the experience like of pitching to stores? Oh my gosh. Yes, it's actually not that bad. Like I cold emailed Credo and they didn't get back to me right away. We launched in February of 2018 and we were in Credo by May, which is actually pretty quick. I had no plan to launch

Mara. Like I was just like, well, okay, the website's going to be live and I'm going to post it on my Instagram, which I have a good following. So, you know, I knew that there would be some traction from that, but I didn't know if people were going to love the product. I didn't know anything. So I didn't have any plan. I just kind of wanted to feel it out. And once we started getting like incredible response, that's when I started reaching out to larger stores to carry it, you know, just start scaling the business. And Credo was the first place I had reached out to. They probably responded like a week later. And it's because of my friend. You guys might know her actually, Katie Jane Hughes, the makeup artist. She's British, but she lives in New York. You guys will love her look, especially if you're

doing the no makeup makeup thing. She does like crazy editorial makeup, but with like fresh skin and it's amazing. Anyways, she was using the product a bunch on her Instagram and Credo was then like responded saying, oh, we had seen this on Katie's Instagram. She raves about it. So send us it. We'll try it out. And you know, they took it and they've been amazing. They've been an amazing retail partner.

We're the best selling face oil there. So yeah, it's been really cool. And then slowly just picked our retail partners accordingly. The one that came after was Cult Beauty in terms of like massive retail. But getting into the Now Massage, which was important to me because I think it's a fun like self-care moment here in LA. It's a massage place in LA. And then Space NK was our most recent.

I love it. Well, thank you so much for bringing us some. I'm going to be using it. So I'll let you all know what it's like. For everyone listening, I would love, I mean, I know we've covered so much ground. So I would love if you could just take a screenshot and tag us all with your biggest takeaway so we can repost it. Where can everyone find you? Where can they find out more about Mara? So my handle is at Alison McNamara and Mara's is at the Mara Beauty. And that's me. I love it. Thank you so

much for being here. Of course. Thanks for having me. This is my first podcast. So. Okay. Did we break you in well? Yes. You guys are amazing. This was so fun. I want to do more. This is great. If you loved this episode, please subscribe and be sure to leave us a review. We want to hear what you enjoyed, what your main takeaways were, and also really want to know who you want to hear what you enjoyed what your main takeaways were and also really want to know who you want to see on the show and speaking of reviews i've also got a little something on my sleeve for you so i want to send you a copy of the boss babe 25 this is a brand new resource that we've created and trust me you are going to love it so the boss babe 25 is the 25 essential resources you need for personal and professional growth. Seriously, this little resource is like a little Boss Babe holy grail. You are going to love it. It covers everything

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