the bossbabe podcast - 147. How To Hire A Players With Sophia Amoruso

Episode Date: February 2, 2021

What does it really take to hire great people? Join BossBabe Co-Founder & CEO Natalie Ellis and special guest Sophia Amoruso to learn more about the ins and outs of developing a healthy & positive company culture, hiring the right people, setting and driving standards through your organization. Ready to join The Société, our membership for female entrepreneurs? http://Bossbabe.com/connectbuildgrow Follow:  BossBabe: @bossbabe.inc Natalie: @iamnatalie Sophia: @sophiaamoruso

Okay, before we dive in, I have to let you know that the Society is officially open for enrolment. The Society is the place for female entrepreneurs to connect, build and grow. And if you want to work alongside me, Danielle and so many other experts in 2021 to make sure that you hit your massive goals then this is the place for you we created it because we wished it existed when we started out on our journeys we were so incredibly lonely and finding each other and being able to come together and learn from mentors who've been there and done that has been a real game changer so we wanted to create the place where you could come and find your business bestie, where you can learn from experts who've been there and done it before, and where you can get coaching

on anything that's stopping you or blocking you on hitting those goals. So we're open for enrollment and something that I want to let you know is we are making some big changes to the society and it is coming back bigger and better than ever when we reopen. And with that, we are going to have a brand new price tag and it's going to be significantly higher than the cost right now. So this really is your last chance to get in at this price. We're going to be raising the price a lot because the value we're going to be giving is going to be tripled. It's going to be so much bigger and better

than it always has been. So we're really excited to be making all of these changes. And as it stands, the society is already an amazing, amazing program with over $52,000 worth of value that you get for $35 a month. It's crazy. So if you're ready to get in and you're ready to make 2021 the year that you hit those massive goals, and you want to do it alongside me, Danielle, and some amazing other mentors, then all the info is

below in the show notes for you, all the links that you need, or you can head to bossy.com forward slash membership. I cannot wait to see you in there. As soon as you join, come on into the Facebook group and introduce yourself. With that, let's dive in. No matter how small your business is, regardless of how early your company is, or you hire someone, you do need to have guidelines around what it's like to work there. You know, what success looks like, how it is that you work together and collaborate, what values you stand for, and then it's your job as a leader to drive that through the organization to actually live up to that. Welcome to the Boss Babe podcast, a place where we share with you the real behind the scenes of building successful businesses,

achieving peak performance, and learning how to balance it all. I'm Natalie Ellis, co-founder and CEO of Boss Babe and your host for this episode. Okay, so before we dive in, let's do a little bit of a life update. So we are just about to close doors for the society. So if you're not in yet, grab the link below and come join us. It has been such a fun launch. We have welcomed so many new members and every single one of you have been so excited, so motivated, so interactive. It's just been so good getting to know you and your businesses. So that's really, really exciting. And the launch behind the scenes was honestly a breeze. And I'm not just saying that. We followed the exact same framework that I teach in OLS. We got really prepared. We knew exactly what we were doing.

We kept it simple, which is often the key. When you simplify, you can amplify. That's how to really scale. So we kept it simple. Everything has went really, really well. We've surpassed goals. So that feels really, really good. It feels like a really good way to kick off the year.

So I'm excited about that. And then on a personal note, so I'm sharing this here. I I haven't really talked about this but you guys know I give everything on the podcast so where to go with this we decided towards the end of last year that we were ready to leave LA for a couple of years and we weren't entirely sure if we were serious about it what that looked like where the place was that we wanted to go. And there's a number of reasons that we're feeling that way. And I can totally do a podcast on that specifically. And we've been starting to think about when are we going to start trying for a family? What does that look like? What are our timelines? So we're really realizing that this time in our life, I just turned 29 in December. This time in our life is really the time when we just get to play full out and live

with that lightness and freedom that you don't often have when you have kids. You have more structure and commitment and things like that. So we knew that. And so we knew that 2021 was going to be a year where we wanted a bit more adventure. I shared with you that my word of 2021 was going to be adventure. So all of that being said, we went away over the holidays and we visited Miami. We absolutely loved it. And when we were there, we were like, you know what? Let's just put the house up for rent in LA it feels like the rental market isn't super hot in LA right now so it might take a while for the house to actually get rented and so we'll put it up and then in a few months time when it gets rented we can decide

you know is it Austin is it Miami where's the? So we put the house up for rent and I'm not kidding you like a day later we got an email they wanted someone wanted the house and it was like a very quick done thing and they said they wanted to be in by the end of February and so we had to make the decision okay if we decline this we risk not being able to find a tenant for quite a while or we can say yes and just go for it and play into that adventure that we did set the intention for because what often happens is you say you want something and then it comes and then your logical mind jumps in and tell you all the reasons that you shouldn't do it because it's scary because you don't have a plan because it's not sensible all of those things

creep in and I just had to bring myself back to wait you asked for this you wanted adventure and the minute you're getting the opportunity to do it you're starting to second guess so we said yes which basically gives us four weeks to decide where we're going pack up our entire house either ship our stuff somewhere or put it in storage and make a plan so that is what my life looks like right now so thank goodness society launch was easy because honestly my headspace is going to be very limited right now so we are doing that that kicks off in just a few weeks end of feb and then what we are deciding to do is build a house in austin which feels really really exciting the house is incredible we've been going back and forth for a while and exploring what it looks like because obviously the house building process is a long one anyway and we're just feeling like that's the right thing for us and if we are going to be starting to plan for family and stuff we want the

space we want to be in a area where we feel like it will be great to bring up kids and all the things so that's what the plan's looking like right now and I'm definitely not saying it's set in stone because it could change any minute I'm that kind of person that could change any minute but that's where we're at right now so thought that I would share and give you guys a little bit of insight there and so with that let's take a sharp left and get into the episode because this one was a really really exciting episode you guys will have already heard of Sophia and Maruso and she obviously founded Nasty Gal when bankrupt she founded Girlboss and as you know in 2020 she left Girlboss and Girlboss was sold to another company I think that's what happened and so I was really keen to get Sophia on the podcast and talk about

that journey because you can often learn a lot more from failure than you can from success and also Sophia had a lot of success with both those companies and there's a lot that can be learned from that. So I was really, really excited to dive into this conversation. And then she also launched a new business class, which has also done phenomenally well. So between all of Sophia's super high highs and really low lows, I feel like she's the kind of entrepreneur that we can learn so much from. And she was a total open book on this episode episode really just wanted to give and share and make sure

this interview was as valuable for an entrepreneur that might be thinking about getting into the industry someone that's really seasoned or someone that's going through a difficult time so I'm really grateful for how much she was willing to open up because you don't often see that vulnerability and transparency a lot I think you're going to really love that part one thing that I was keen to get advice from Sophia on was hiring. You know, we're going through a crazy hiring spree at Boss Babe and we have been for the past couple of years. So to hear from someone who's been there and done it multiple times and hired really awesome teams, I was just all ears. So I was lapping up this episode and I know you are going to do the same thing. So before we dive in, I'll just give you a more formal bio

in case you've been living under a rock and you don't know who Sophia is. Sophia is an award-winning serial entrepreneur, New York Times bestselling author, educator, podcast host, and founder of a nine-figure online clothing brand, Nasty Gal. She is dedicated to helping entrepreneurs, side hustlers, and founders-to-be build their dream businesses. Through her businesses, books, and podcasts, she's mentored thousands of individuals on how to dream up and build profitable businesses that they're proud of. So if you're tuning into this episode, ready to learn more about the ins and outs of developing healthy and positive company culture, hiring the right people and then driving standards throughout your organization, you're going to love this episode because she really dives into it. So as always, take a screenshot, share your biggest takeaways and Insta stories, and please give us a review because it means the world and it really, really helps the podcast. Let's dive in. A boss babe is unapologetically ambitious and paves the way for herself and other women to rise, keep going, and fighting on. She

is on a mission to be her best self in all areas. It's just believing in yourself. Confidently stepping outside her comfort zone to create her own vision of success. Okay, so before I dive into picking your brain around hiring and culture, because I know you have such a genius zone around that, let's take a quick pause to talk about my new favorite all-in-one platform, Kajabi. You know I've been singing their praises lately because they have helped our business run so much smoother and with way less complexity, which I love. Not to mention our team couldn't be happier because now everything is in one place, so it makes collecting data, creating pages, collecting payment, all the things so much simpler. One of our mottos at Boss Babe is simplify to amplify and kajabi has really helped us do that

this year so of course i needed to share it here with you it's the perfect time of year to do a bit of spring cleaning in your business you know get rid of the complexity and instead really focus on getting organized and making things as smooth as possible i definitely recommend kajabi to all of my clients and students so if you're listening and haven't checked out Kajabi yet now is the perfect time to do so because they are offering Boss Babe listeners a 30-day free trial go to kajabi.com slash boss babe to claim your 30-day free trial that's kajabi.com slash boss babe we've talked a lot about what it's been like for you being so public and you've had a Netflix show about you and so many things that I think so many people would find so hard to even go through.

But I want to know, you know, people think they know you, you have a Netflix show about you, you've been in every magazine, but what do people generally not know about you that they think they might know? I think that I'm just like a weirdo. I feel like I came in the back door to business and you know my real friends are not business people like my old old kind of early friends who I consider myself really close to and so while my career my identity have largely been built around being an entrepreneur that's just like one part of me, you know? So there's a lot of my personality, you know, of course that I've infused into everything that I've done, but it's always like hard to know somebody unless you're really, really around them. And I feel like

people don't know how much of a clown I actually am. I just do not take myself seriously. I kind of, yeah, I guess that would be it and that I think everybody knows that I like poodles because I have three and one thing that you mentioned too is that you're introverted and I think there's sometimes this belief especially like you said part of your brand is being talent I think there's this belief that to be showing up on video and podcasting and networking, doing all the things, you need to be very extroverted. So there's probably a lot of people listening thinking, oh my God, I'm so introverted. I don't know that I could do that. How has that part been for you being an introverted person? Because I'm the same.

Yeah, it's really challenging. I'm really hard on myself. Even these live videos with the business class students, you know, I'm terrified and I have to prepare these live videos with the business class students, you know, I'm terrified and I have to prepare and I have notes in front of me. You know, things come out really easily in certain formats for me and writing, but it's more challenging to kind of be put on the spot. I do much better in a Q&A format than I do just giving a speech. Like I'm really not super capable of like giving speeches and just talking for an hour. So I've learned that about myself.

But, you know, part of being a business owner is, I mean, it's challenging yourself, you know. So I've told myself that everything I've learned through business are things that, you know, were gaps in my development as a kid or as an adolescent or in my earlier years that have given me an opportunity to become a lot more well-rounded, I guess, as a person and without throwing yourself into all the things that come with business. And to a certain extent early on, not forever, letting your business kind of demand of you what it needs, kind of force you to show up. And it's always going to be scary. You know, I'm 15 years in, I've, like you said, done all the press, you know, spoken at all the conferences, and it's always scary. And you just keep showing up because, you know, it's what do you have to lose is your respect for yourself, your integrity, you know, not being able to send your mom like a cool link of like some article that's come out about you. And, you know, looking back at your life, asking, what if I had done that, rather than Wow,

look at what I did. And I totally blew it sometimes. But that is super entertaining. You know, you'll be entertained by the things you blow it at, you know, a year from now, you know, for me, four years from now, I'm just, you know, I take everything, you know, that I've done in my career seriously, and I have a lot of responsibility. But I'm also just at this point have enough distance to be kind of entertained by it, and have a lot of like levity around it, and just have moved on and learn from it. And I think if you put yourself in uncomfortable situations, you learn a lot about yourself. And if you let that happen over the course of being a business owner and a founder, you'll grow as a result of it.

So you kind of have to trust the process. Yeah, I think there's probably a lot of people listening that have had breakthroughs listening to that. Like, yeah, I need to make myself a bit more uncomfortable because especially as an online business owner, it can be so easy to just hide behind your laptop and not want to get visible and not want to show up because it's uncomfortable so pivoting on from that one thing that I'm really excited to talk to you about is hiring so I think hiring the right people is such a make or break with growing your business and for me personally it's one of the hardest parts. So I don't even

know what I don't know. So I would love to know what are your biggest tips around hiring A players, really hiring the right people for the job who are so talented and doing it in a way that, you know, you've made the right decision. You know, it's interesting. You don't always know you're going to, it takes sometimes years to know you're going to make the right decision? You know, it's interesting. You don't always know you're going to, it takes sometimes years to know you're going to make the right decision. For me, anybody I've hesitated on hiring, it hasn't worked out. So whether it's a year or two years and not just, you know, it's not worked out in a way that's actually been damaging to the business, even if it's six months and things seem great. You know, whenever I've passed on a candidate and then hired them because, okay, well, they seem like they could do the job, but I'm not, you know, I could be more excited

about them. Like that's when it ends up not being really the best fit. You know, I think the interview process is really important, but at the same time, you don't really know what it's like to work with someone until you work with them at Girlboss. And now I give everybody kind of assignments. It doesn't matter what, you know, whether they're an intern or an executive or director or whatever, I give them an assignment so I can see how they present their ideas, how they write, what their ideas are, how much they understand what we're doing. And so it's not, you know, give me a, you know, giant 40 page deck, but it's like, hey, think through the kinds of things that would be relevant for our business. If it's a social media person, you know, can you draft, you know,

a post for such and such holiday and, you know, write one about this. Okay. Are they culturally sensitive enough to understand how to connect with a really broad community that girl boss has? And you have, there's just so many things to evaluate, even when you're just hiring something like a social media manager and you just, you really do want to vet how they think and their level of judgment, because, you know, there'll be days and hopefully many days, you know, as you delegate things to people where you're not going to be approving every single thing that happens, but all it takes is one employee's dumb move to really, really affect your business. And when those things happen and your audience is upset, whatever that is, you're going to

be personally held responsible. So every person that you're hiring is a representation of who you are. So I think that is really important to remember because the fingers will always be pointed at you. Even if you didn't approve something, everyone assumes that you approved everything, everything that's happening in the business at any given time. If you let it happen, then it was your choice. And of course, it's your responsibility to drive a culture and what it is that you represent and making sure that shows up on the inside and outside your company. But at the same time,

not everything is within your control. I poach people or I look for people that have worked at companies that are relevant to the company I'm building. So I go on LinkedIn, I search for people. If I don't want to, if they're a friend and I don't want to steal employees from them, I'll look at past companies they've worked for. And then maybe I'll ping my friend and be like,

hey, how was this person? Were they a good fit? But I'd say, you know, some of the best hires I've made have come from me sourcing them. Great people often don't apply for jobs. You know, they're happy at a job or they have options. They're not, you know,

especially when they're more senior and executives, you know, they're working with a recruiter who's, you know, placing them and representing them and, you know, paying recruiters is, that's a whole nother thing, but great people usually aren't applying for jobs. So that makes them even harder to find. And there's a like, you know, subtle art of wooing them without selling them too hard. But I think, you know, if you have some traction, sharing that, when you reach out to them, and we've built this, you know, at Boss Babe, we built this multimillion dollar business and have over 10 million hashtags. And, you know,

we're building this new exciting thing. And we'd be a perfect fit for it. Flattery goes a long way to get responses from people. And then don't be surprised if they don't respond to you. I reach out personally on LinkedIn. And I think that probably helps even at any stage of whether it's, you know, someone who's manager level or executive level, I'm on there searching for people. And even if I'm not the hiring manager, I reach out to them personally, because it makes people feel really special. And then I might connect them with the hiring manager, but I'm reaching out to them because I think their profile would be great for our business. So, you know, as a founder, it's hard to delegate hiring if you really want to, you know, if you really want to hire the right people, because you're always going to have a vision for who those people are beyond the hiring

manager. Yeah, that's definitely something I've been hearing a lot is, like you said, great people aren't applying for jobs and going out there and actually just approaching people and doing direct reach out is really powerful and how would you start that conversation if someone is you know slightly interested but you don't want to woo them too much because they haven't got the job yet but you want them to be interested in your company how would that that process look? Yeah, I mean, a lot of these people are just they're like, hey, willing to have a chat. And sometimes that is them having leverage. So they may be looking, but they don't want to tell you they're looking because they want

you to think that, you know, you're stealing them and are willing to pay a premium to steal them away from another company. So even when people respond and say, I'm not really looking, but I'm happy to chat. Like sometimes that's just a negotiating tool. So that's not always the case, you know, flatter them in their experience, love what you've done. You can provide specifics about, you know, I love this campaign that you worked on, or, you know, the marketing at your company has been so amazing. I just, I'm such a fan. That goes a long way. I usually take it off of LinkedIn and onto a 20 minute call as quickly as possible. You always want to send the calendar invite. You want to make it super easy for them. Just like, you know, get them on the calendar as soon as possible. And then just have a chat, you know, have a chat about their experience and then,

and what it is that you're up to and just make it feel like, Hey, I think you're super interesting. And, you know, let me tell you about what we're doing. You know, we're going to be interested in that if they responded. So they'll definitely listen to what you have to say and to share about your business. And then at the end, just say like, hey, I'd love to continue the conversation.

You know, are you open to having a chat about joining us? Because I would love to work with you. And I know you're not looking, but we could do incredible things together, you know, and then they'll say, let me think about it and come back and write you an email and say, I'm sorry, no, or they'll waste your time. And you'll spend two more, you know, calls with them. And then they'll write you and say, they're not interested and waste your time or, you know, it'll actually go somewhere. It's a lot of time. It's so much time, you know,

and in the beginning, you do want to reach out to. It's so much time, you know, and in the beginning, you do want to reach out to a good number of people because, you know, only a certain number will respond and then only a certain number will actually be qualified. Yeah, so it's a thing. It's like a full-time job. And then when you bring them in, say you find someone, they're great, you bring them in and you're starting to build this team of people what are one or two things that you have implemented that have helped contribute to a really healthy positive culture I think it's really important for people to get to know each other beyond just the work that they do we always have everybody on the team

talk regardless of what department they're in. So if someone joins the company, they sit down for even like, you know, 15 or 20 minutes with every member of the team just to understand what they do, not just, you know, hear their title, really understand how the company works and talk to everybody in the company, you know, onboard them. It doesn't have to be super duper corporate, but you know, you do want, and this is, I talk about this a lot in business class, no matter how small your business is, regardless of how early your company is, or you hire someone, you do need to have guidelines around what it's like to work there.

You know, what success looks like, how it is that you work together and collaborate, what values you stand for. And then it's your job as a leader to drive that through the organization to actually live up to that. Cause you can write all that stuff down and put it on the wall and we've got our values and you know, there's no assholes policy, but as soon as you tolerate an asshole, even if they're a highly productive, super talented asshole, you've failed to live up to your mission and your team loses respect for you as a leader. They just they're like, okay, well, that's a bunch of lip service. Or if you have someone who is, you know, not productive, or a low performer, and you let them stay on the team for, you know, an indefinite period of time,

it's going to show to everyone else that their hard work is really, you know, unnecessary and excessive, that your standard is actually much lower than the level that they're working at. And that will drag the morale and the level of work down, you know, people will live up to the example you set as a leader and the example you hold the rest of your team to and one bad example of that can, you know, change an entire culture. So what you tolerate is what you become, whether it's in relationships or in your business. That's something that, you know, as a leader, really the buck stops with you. I love that. That there was so much gold in there.

I've been making a lot of notes. I love that no asshole policy. I think it's so incredibly important. And so I know we don't have tons of time, but I really want to find out a bit more about business class so I know you just closed the launch which is so exciting so congratulations but what about for if anyone didn't make it in this launch do you have a wait list up what's the process there are you going to be reopening it ever yeah so this is the 2020 kind of inaugural class. We closed the doors just a few days ago and kicked things off yesterday. We have over 500 students and it's

really awesome and thriving community already. It's an eight week program that you have lifetime access to and you cover pretty much everything you need to know about entrepreneurship and starting or scaling your business. We will bring it back in 2021. I don't know exactly when, but we are taking reservations on standby, which basically just means we have a waitlist, which is at the same URL that we had when we had all of the information live for people to register for the course. And that's takebusinessclass.com and then for anyone who is waiting and they want to know about the next cohort is the best place to follow you on social do you have an email newsletter any place like that they can stay up to date yeah so either at

sophiaamaruso.com or takebusinessclass.com we do have if you sign up you actually get this really awesome guide called crafting theting the Perfect Bio. It's like over 30 pages. It's like a free download that I wrote. And so whether you land on takebusinessclass.com or sophieemers.com, you can sign up for the newsletter. You'll get that and then you'll be notified when we open the doors again. Amazing. And then just, I know we haven't touched on this. I want to be super clear. Who is this for? Who's the exact person that you think business class would really benefit? Yeah. Business classes for someone who is really ready to start a business, take action on their business, who has a business and wants to professionalize and understand, you know,

the best practices, how to level up, how to create a beautiful brand, how to protect themselves legally, understand finance, understand marketing, and from the emotional aspects of it to the technical aspects of it, leadership and hiring, it really runs the gamut. So it's for someone who's serious because it is not a lightweight curriculum. It is business class. So you really want to, this know, this isn't like, wow, I think I might want to do something at some point. And that's, you know, you're going to be probably, you'll probably flounder a little if you're at that stage. So you really want to be ready because, you know, this is a community of entrepreneurs who are really, really doing things. Even if you're not doing it this moment, you do want to know that even if it it's next year you're going to take what you learned in business class and really seriously apply it

because it's a it is an investment I love that and then I want to know when's the new podcast coming when's the new book coming when can we look forward to all of this uh podcast it's funny I haven't announced that and that'll be in 2021 2021. And then book is probably 2022. I'm trying to, you know, what I've learned is, you know, to phase things in my career, not try, you know, there are always, I'm so lucky to have a lot of opportunities. And saying yes to them all at the same time is very dangerous thing. So I'm really phasing what it is that I'm doing now, which is, you know, challenging, because I really love instant gratification and I love filing work on myself. So it'll you're you've been such an open book and so willing to share your journey because I know for so many people including myself it's just so helpful and has been so helpful so thank you absolutely I've loved getting to know you guys

I'm so impressed by what you've done and I'm excited to compare notes and you guys can I can learn so much from you so thank you for having me thank you if you loved this episode please subscribe download a few more and please leave us a review I really want to hear what you enjoyed what your main takeaways were and I also want to know what you want to hear us talk about next to say thanks thanks for leaving us a review, we'll send you a copy of The Boss Babe 25. The Boss Babe 25 is the 25 essential resources you need for personal and professional growth. It covers everything from our favorite rituals, books, and hacks. If you want a copy, just leave us a review, screenshot it, and send to podcast at bossbabe.com.

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