the bossbabe podcast - 148. From Family Start Up To 9 Figure Business With Mona Kattan

Episode Date: February 9, 2021

Join BossBabe Co-Founder & President Danielle Canty and special guest Mona Kattan as they pull back the curtain on how far passion and authenticity can get you in business and the journey of going from 1 set of false lashes to a 9-figure beauty brand. BossBabe Launch Formula Training: https://go.bossbabe.com/launch-formula1 Use code “BOSSBABE” for 15% off your Organifi order: https://www.organifishop.com Follow:  BossBabe: @bossbabe.inc Danielle: @daniellecanty Mona: @monakattan

I am so excited to announce that I am hosting another brand new free training on how to have stress-free sold-out launches. I have two dates and times available so I'm going to link you below. Make sure you sign up soon because we have a cap at how many people we can have there. This is for business owners who've already made sales and are really ready to accelerate their business this year. So what I'm going to be doing is teaching Boss Babe's four-part launch framework, the exact framework that we have used to make over eight figures in revenue through launching organically through social media. It's an incredible framework. And the best part is it's incredibly simple. So if you're really, really ready to level up this year and

take your business to the next level, and you want to see a massive cash injection through launching, and you want to know how to do it with less stress and more success, then you're going to love this. And at the very end of the training, I'm going to be extending a really exclusive offer to join me inside of online launch school. So it's going to be a really, really amazing training. So the link is below, go sign up, pick the time zone that works best for you. And I'll see you on there with either champagne or coffee in hand, depending on the time of day. And with that, we'll dive straight into the episode. The thing that's moved the needle the most is hiring really incredible people. You need people who are really adaptable, really scrappy, because if they're not,

it can cause a lot of insecurity and you just have to realize like it's not about you. It's not personal. It's just like you've got to move with the business and do what's best for the business at the time. Welcome to the Boss Babe podcast, a place where we share with you the real behind the scenes of building successful businesses, achieving peak performance, and learning how to bounce it all. I'm Danielle Canty, co-founder and president of Boss Babe, and your host for this week's episode. Now, I'm kind of having a bit of a podcast day today. I've just got back from recording the most fun episode with Natalie and two other female co-founders, which was so, so fun. We literally discussed everything from friendships to business to morning routines, all the things. I cannot wait for you guys to listen

to that. And I also did a brand new solo episode, which is going to drop really, really soon. And one of the things that I'm just realizing as I'm going to record this intro is the core theme that's coming through with all of these. And it really comes down to the importance of mindset in a business. Just like you train your muscles in the gym, like how important it is to train your brain with regards to mindset. And really, I don't think it can be taken for granted at all. And as I'm coming to record this episode with an incredible female founder who is part of a nine-figure business empire, like huge guys. I'm really reflecting that it doesn't matter what size your business is at, whether you're just starting out or whether you are running a nine, 10-figure business,

it really is important to have that foundational piece and understanding of how you curate and look after your mindset. So yeah, just reflecting on that today. And I'm really, really excited to introduce this episode because it is with the most amazingly talented and beautiful woman, Mona Katan. And I was so, so honored and thrilled to do this interview with her because back in 2013, she actually founded this company with her sisters and they called it, you will have heard of it, I can guarantee, called it Huda Beauty. They are now a global beauty empire and they have also added other businesses alongside that. So they have KLE, their fragrance, they have Wishful Skin and they have HB Investments. And

what this team have achieved is absolutely phenomenal. They are a family-run business and you're going to hear in this conversation that we have, we literally cover everything from what it's like to build a business with your family, what that looks like in the early days. We talk about how they actually got into Sephora with their product and also about how to build an international team because they're actually in Dubai and they have a lot of team in London and Los Angeles as well. So it's just a really, really epic episode and I cannot wait for you guys to listen to it. So as always, make sure you've got your notepad and pen because you're going to want to make notes. I can guarantee it. And please share your favorite takeaways with me. Tag myself at Danielle Canty and tag at bossbabe.inc. A boss babe is unapologetically ambitious and

paves the way for herself and other women to rise, keep going and fighting on. She is on a mission to be her best self in all areas. It's just believing in yourself. Confidently stepping outside her comfort zone to create her own version of success. So they say good things come to those who wait. Well, they certainly do because this interview has been in the pipeline for me personally, what seems like ages. I feel like it's no mean feat to organize a podcast interview with COVID and a 12 hour time difference, but we are finally here and I am delighted to introduce Mona Katan today. So welcome Mona. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here and

I'm honored. I love Boss Babe and I love everything you guys do. So thank you so, so, so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here and I'm honored. I love Boss Babe and I love everything you guys do. So thank you so, so, so much. Oh no, thank you so much for coming on. Honestly, I've been so excited about this interview because I've got so many things that we're going to talk about. Like I'm just like, okay, I want to ask her this, I want to ask her this. And yesterday I popped on my stories and asked if there were any questions and I was flooded Mona honestly. Okay I'm excited. Really fun. So before we dive in I really just kind of

what I like to do at the beginning of interviews is just kind of take things back to the beginning because we have so many aspiring entrepreneurs listening to this. We have people who are entrepreneurs already and they're scaling their businesses. And I really just kind of want to take you back to the beginning of starting Huda Beauty because my understanding is that Huda, your older sister, she had started a beauty blog. She was doing her thing, but it was actually your idea to go, hang on a minute. We could do some products over here. Is that right? But yeah, so basically, at the time, I was already had my own business, I had a beauty salon. So I had already dabbled into entrepreneurship. And even prior to having my beauty salon, I had created so many little startups.

And to be honest, I was just messing around, I would constantly like come up with ideas and create small businesses. But I was just kind of like, trying to understand what I was most passionate about. And I saw Huda. And I was was always like just mesmerized by her obsession with beauty. Like she really is an artist and she's so creative and so passionate about makeup and cosmetics. And at the time she was doing makeup for a lot of my friends and they were her clients. And I remember they'd always come up to me and ask me like, how can I get Huda's lashes? I want Huda's lashes. And I would always be like, you know, you can't, you can't get her lashes. She actually cuts them and puts them together with lash glue. And she kind of like creates these

beautiful lashes that are bespoke. And I remember one day just having an epiphany and I was like, why do I keep hearing this question? Like this question keeps coming to me and I feel like there's something behind it. So I went to Huda, I was like, you know what? It can't be that hard to create your own lash brand. Like we just, we need to look into it. Are you interested? And she was like, if you can help me with the business side of things, absolutely. If we can make it happen, I'm down. So I went to my computer, researched every lash manufacturer I could find and got some samples and yeah. And the rest kind of just, I mean, obviously there was a lot of sweat, blood and tears, but yeah, the rest is history.

Okay. So I like this podcast to be super tangible. So I want to hear about those blood, sweat and tears. I think this is actually like really, really important for people to hear that side of the story because I used to think we had had this idea but at this point you didn't have an absolute clue on how to even like make lashes right so when you're saying like okay I'm gonna do some research and I'm gonna google what does that look like because I know as an entrepreneur starting out google was pretty much my best friend and I remember our team asking me questions like yeah yeah just give me a minute and I'll get back to you and that getting back to you was giving me a space to go on google to try and find out that is so funny I love it I'm just gonna try and find out and I'm like I wonder if they realize that at that point I was just as clueless as them I'm like figuring it out so what did that look like for you like how did

you figure out what were your next steps that's so so funny. And you know what? Google is still my best friend. So I still Google everything. I'm like, even if people have like shared ideas and they've given me what they know, because now we've hired great people who have experience, but I still like, maybe I can Google other people's experience and learn from it. So still my BFF, you know, so basically I just went and I researched all kinds of manufacturers and I spammed every single one because you know, when you're starting out, nobody wants your business anyway. So we kept contacting like every single manufacturer, tried to convince them to send us samples, even though we didn't have a brand yet. And it was a lot of back and forth. And you know, we finally got in touch with one of the top manufacturers in the world and got their attention. I think having the blog did help us out a little bit because like we already had a pretty good following and it gave

them a little bit of hope for us to create something huge together. And they bet on us and they worked with us after like begging them to like work with such like low quantities at the time. And we started with a collection of just five lashes. We still didn't get into Sephora. So we actually ordered all these lashes before even having a retailer on board. But we knew we wanted to launch at Sephora. Like Huda's dream was to launch in Sephora Dubai Mall, which was one of their biggest Sephoras in the world and one of the top performing doors in the world. And I literally contacted every single distributor through Google in Dubai, every distributor there was to try to get into Sephora. And yeah, it took a very, very long time, a lot of convincing. I remember we met with the final distributor who took us on board and we

had a meeting. All we had was a last try. We didn't even have the packaging or anything. And we're like, this is going to be huge. You have to believe in us. And for whatever reason, the person we met with, they took a bet on us. I still can't believe they did because at the time, it was literally like a plastic white lash tray with nothing but a clear cover. And she was like, you know what, I believe in you guys. And I think it was just a lot of passion, a lot of authenticity. We, everybody knew that Huda was already creating a blog about makeup for years and she had at the time never took on advertisers it was just purely a passion project so I think they knew that she was doing this out of the love of creating something special and different not just trying to capitalize off of a trend or anything like that yeah I think that's really important just

kind of like saying those two pieces because you said the words like passion and authenticity. And I really do believe like whenever you are selling something, whether it's like say selling your product into stores or maybe even you're selling to get investment, right? So you're like telling the story about your business that you can bring on investment. I think passion and authenticity from founders is so, so key. I really do believe like if you are not backing your business 100%, people can see through it. And from what I'm hearing, like you said, that's like exactly what you guys had. You might not have had everything laid out, but they knew you were going to do it with or without them. You were like on that route to actually hang on. We're going to get in Sephora one way or the other. Absolutely. Like even if we had to go in there and stand and sell it to random people, like we're gonna do it, like whether they took us on board or not, but absolutely. And you're right, like you can smell it a mile away, whether it's coming from an authentic place or not. And

I think that's why people believed in Huda because something I really admire about Huda is that she's always, let's take a quick pause to talk about my new favorite all-in-one platform, Kajabi. You know I've been singing their praises lately because they have helped our business run so much smoother and with way less complexity, which I love. Not to mention our team couldn't be happier because now everything is in one place, so it makes collecting data, creating pages, collecting payment, all the things so much simpler. One of our mottos at Boss Babe is simplify to amplify and Kajabi has really helped us do that this year. So of course I needed to share it here with you. It's the perfect time of year to do a bit

of spring cleaning in your business, you know, get rid of the complexity and instead really focus on getting organized and making things as smooth as possible possible I definitely recommend Kajabi to all of my clients and students so if you're listening and haven't checked out Kajabi yet now is the perfect time to do so because they are offering Boss Babe listeners a 30-day free trial go to kajabi.com slash boss babe to claim your 30 day free trial that's kajabi.com slash boss babe to claim your 30-day free trial. That's Kajabi.com slash Boss Babe. Long-term thinking and long-term greedy. She's never been someone who sold herself short. And even when she had her blog originally, you know, so many advertisers approached her

to kind of promote different things and advertise different things. And she'd always decline them. And she's like, you know what? I don't feel comfortable like promoting anything that I don't't genuinely love and I don't really feel comfortable advertising. So she always had the mindset of just remaining just as a giver of information and share of passion. So yeah, it just really helped us build that credibility without us even knowing that was what we were doing at the time. And you talk about long-term vision there. I'm really curious, did you guys start Huda Beauty? I know obviously the blog was called Huda Beauty, but the product line, did you start with the knowing that this was going to be a billion dollar company one day?

Or were you just like, you know what, we just want to do a little bit of fun. What was that vision when you first started out? Originally, when Huda started the blog, there was never the intention of starting the product. It was just really to share information. And we never planned on creating the lash brand until that epiphany happened. And then when we first started, you know, it was just planned on creating a lash brand, but we always kind of went with what people were demanding from us. So when we launched lashes, it came from people asking about her creating and selling lashes. And then when we moved on to lip product, it was because there really wasn't that many incredible lip products at the time, like a really nice liquid matte lipstick and really nice formulas for lip liners.

So we just kind of filled the gaps as we went along and we listened. We really keep our ears on the consumers and all of our followers on our page. So everybody kind of demands for products and then we just kind of work backwards. We're not like finding out what is popular. We find out what's missing. And I think that's kind of been the way that we've been able to create some magic for our followers. It's just really not following trends, but following them instead. Yeah, I think that's really important. We always say in our company, like ask, listen and learn,

because I mean, it's one thing you have to ask the question, but then it's really important to actually listen because I see so many founders that ask some things, but they'll try and get the answers to fall into what they think is going to like people are going to say. That is so true. Hearing you guys say that's kind of continuously what you've done and how you've built the company. And I want to ask as well, like you kind of alluded to this, you guys started with just one product, basically those five lashes. When I talk to a lot of founders and people starting their businesses, like, yeah, I want to have this, this and this. I'm going to start with this, like these six,

10 products. And it can be a little bit overwhelming. What do you think the benefits are of just really going, actually, all we're starting with is lashes. That's it. Nothing else. Wow. Well, I think there's so many benefits. I mean, the first, and I think the biggest benefit is just your risk. And because like, what if that product doesn't work? So I think just taking a smaller bet when you first start out is really important. So for us, you know, our initial order was super small. And you know, Huda's backup plan, she's like, if this doesn't work, because for the first order, she actually borrowed the money from our other sister, Alia. And she's like, if this doesn't work, I'll just pay you and wear all these lashes myself because I love them. But there were like thousands of lashes.

But I think just taking a smaller risk is really important because if it doesn't work out well, you don't want to sit on tons of stock. You don't want to eat up all of your cash that you have for your initial investment. And also you want to be able to adapt quickly. And if you have lots of existing products, then how can you adapt? So I think taking a smaller risk is really important when you first get started. Really, really good advice. Like I said, we've got lots of people who are growing their business. Like what have been some of the key points of growth for you guys?

What have been some of the biggest needle movers that you've done in growing Hooded Beauty? Like even from like the beginning, right? So maybe like in the first few years, what were some big things that you think you guys did that really pushed the business forwards? Honestly, the thing that's moved the needle the most is hiring really incredible people, especially when we first were starting out when it was just the family and a very small, like very, very small team, Like every single person we added really helped expand the business exponentially. So even till today, like we are a very lean and mean team for our size of business. We still have a very small team compared to other brands of our size. And we stay that way

intentionally because we want to know what everybody's doing. And we want every single person to be able to really, really add as much impact as possible. And I have to say, our team is really incredible. And they've all catapulted the business. And I think just changing the mindset of how we hire too, because I think when you first start out, you might hire people who know the same amount of information you do, or even sometimes less than you do. And I don't know if it's out of insecurity or out of like, just you think that's the best you can get. You might even think, why would smarter people want to work with you? But when you really start to look for people who know more than you in other areas, that's when I feel like you're really going to create something special. And I think you have to deal with your insecurities first and say, okay,

you need people who are better than you in certain ways and be okay with it. But I did feel like there was a certain tipping point where it went from us hiring kind of like B people or even C people to A people. And that changed everything. And that's a really amazing thing to call out because often the founders get the glory, but it really is created by a team behind and just what you're saying around like hiring people who are better than you like it can be a little bit intimidating sometimes I'm really glad you kind of mentioned that about getting working through your own insecurities because for a lot of founders it can be like oh my goodness now I feel bad that they know more than me whereas actually oh my goodness thank god they know more than me like I'm so glad I can have this over when you start realizing that you can delegate to someone

who does it better than you oh my goodness that is an amazing day I feel like when I started realizing that would happen I'm like oh this is just the most magical experience I don't have to like micromanage everything absolutely and then you can focus on like what you're the best at, because everybody's got something that they're really talented at. And nobody can be the most talented in everything. And I think that's something that we all have to accept. Like, everybody has their strengths, everybody has their weaknesses. So I really do feel like as a founder, you know, when you first start out, it might be hard to get people to work with you. And that's where it might be a bit challenging to get like the A-types.

So you hire whoever you can initially. It's almost like you have to beg people to work with you when you're first starting out because you can't pay them really well. You don't have a brand to like sell to them to put on their CV. So it's really, really tough. But once you start growing and you actually are able to attract that like really incredible talent, that's when the game changes. And that's when you also change. You learn from them and you improve and you'll learn from each

other. So I really have to say our team is full of rock stars. We really have a type and they're all many entrepreneurs within the business. I think every single person is a boss. I love that. We have the same actually, like lots of entrepreneurs working for us. I actually just want to stay on the subject a little bit more because for us, we've done a lot of elevates and delegates in our teams or like we did this exercise where you would kind of put your paper, you would create it into like four quadrants and you would like in the top left corner, say what you love at, love doing, and you're really good at. And then the right corner, it'd be like, okay, I like doing this, but I'm not so good at it.

And the bottom one is like things that you really don't like doing and really just understanding. And I would love you to talk about your role and how you've moved around because I think you're a little bit like me, right? You've kind of done all the jobs. No one actually has necessarily wanted to.

You kind of like rolled your sleeves up and dug in, like got stuck into wherever it needs. So what does your evolution and your role look like? And what things have you been able to realize that actually you love doing and things that you don't? Was that really clear cut for you? Or is that something that has taken a long time to really kind of like find your feet in? I love that actually. I'm actually writing down your quadrant right now. So please, if you could send me like the actual thing for later, I'm going to actually do this myself. But that's such a great point. And you're right, like as somebody who helps found brand, like it was me and Huda and my sister Alia together when it first started. So luckily,

I didn't have to do every single area and neither none of us did every single thing. We kind of like split up the work and kind of everybody kind of wore different hats based on like who could do each job best. But initially when I first started, it was me doing more of like the business side of things. Sometimes the admin, the PR and the finance, the legal and stuff like that, because I had that experience already with my previous business. And then as we slowly started to expand, Huda's husband came on board about two years or two and a half years into the business. And he helped take over retail and other areas of the business.

But for myself, it's really been a huge journey. And I have to say, even now, seven and a half years in, it's almost eight years, it's still evolving. every six months as we add more people where now I'm just mainly focusing on our fragrance brand, Kayali and influencers in PR and strategic business relationships, as well as just sitting on the board and kind of observing the overall business. So yeah, it's definitely evolved a lot and it's still evolving, but I'm loving it more and more because as we hire incredible rock stars, I'm able to focus on the most meaningful parts of the business to myself. And the things that you enjoy. I'm going to tell you this quadrants now because I know I'm going to have loads of DMs about this. I'm going to read them out. I'm already writing it down. I got the first two you mentioned, but I need the

other two. I'll go over them. So the top left corner is what you love and you're really good at. Top right corner is what you like doing and either you are good at or you want to be good at, right? So it might be something like, okay, I don't know, for me, like I'm pretty good at speaking on stage, but I want to be even better at it, right? So that for me might go in there. Then on the bottom left is you don't like, but you're good at. And the bottom right corner is don't like and not good at so then you kind of like go through I normally keep it on my desk for a week and then just like keep adding to it during the week of all the things like oh yeah I'm doing this today I absolutely hate doing this

and I kind of want to delegate it and then it also becomes like if you can find we actually got a whole team to do this as well because I just kind of alluded to like roles always evolving and whether it's yours or a fast-paced scaling organization I also just want to say this to the listeners like it's okay for change because I feel like in big established corporate businesses you have these organization charts which get locked in for a period of time and nothing really changes in them but with like my experience with fast-paced startups it's like that organization chart those roles are always continuously like moving and like you say every six months or so there's normally like a change or sometimes in the really early stages every quarter there's a change it's like that's okay yeah

okay so I want to interrupt this episode just quickly to let you know about a brand that I absolutely adore so if you've been watching my stories for the past couple of years you'll know that I've been using this brand for a really long time Organifi they are some of the best healthy superfood products that I have ever found and I am not just saying that so a couple of my favorites include the vanilla and chocolate protein. Not only are they packed with protein and goodness but they have digestive enzymes to help you really digest the protein properly so you never get bloated or anything afterwards. So I love them in my morning smoothie. In fact you probably see me share this every single morning on my stories

but I love the vanilla protein with some spinach, banana. I put some almond butter, almond milk, blend it up. It is incredible and it honestly tastes like birthday cake. It's amazing and I have tried it with multiple different types of vanilla protein and it does not taste the same. The Organifi protein just has such a good flavor to it and then after workouts I've been doing the chocolate protein and I literally just do the protein with almond milk, nothing fancy, shake it up and it's not only filling but it tastes really really good I know some proteins can have a weird aftertaste or they can be too sweet or whatever this protein tastes really really good so those are two products that I absolutely love on top of that I love the chocolate gold you know the

turmeric drinks like golden milk drinks it's that that but with cacao. So it tastes like a hot chocolate but it's packed with turmeric and so much goodness. It's super low in sugar so no matter what kind of diet you're on it's really really good for you. I love having it on a night time and if I'm feeling hungry or I want to ensure I get a really good night's sleep I'll just add some ghee and some honey into that, stir it up and it's absolutely amazing. So those are a couple of my favorite products from Organifi. And if you use the code Boss Babe, you're actually going to get 15% off. So I really recommend stocking up. They have so many different kinds of products. I'll tell you about other ones in other episodes because I don't take up too much time, but I am a big hardcore Organifi fan. And I really, really

recommend if you are looking for products that aren't filled with crap and are really, really recommend it if you are looking for products that aren't filled with crap and are really, really good for you. So you can use the code BOSSBABE and it's Organifi, O-R-G-A-N-I-F-I. So BOSSBABE and Organifi and let's jump back into the episode. And that's the thing, you need people who are really adaptable, really scrappy, because if they're not, it could be really hard on some people and it can cause a lot of insecurity. And you just have to realize like, it's not about you. It's not personal. It's just like, you've got to move with the business and do what's best for the business at the time. So yeah, it's been hard on everyone, but I think we're all learning like this is just what

makes the most sense. And for any business, I think nowadays, any beauty business, fashion business, like everybody in the space, it's like everything is so fast. You have to move quickly. Totally. And so I also want to ask a little about the family side of this business because is there anyone in your family that's not involved in this business? There is actually, but like, yeah, probably smart of them. And so like, I feel like at the best of times, like entrepreneurs become a little bit engrossed and obsessed with their businesses, right? So it's normal, like when you're like starting, I mean, in my experience, like a business is like a baby, right? If like you're like you're no family it's like your baby you're kind of obsessed with it you can't help

talking about it but how do you draw the balance because I feel like I probably talk to my mom and dad or my family and I'm not necessarily talking about business right but like your family gatherings birthday parties like so many of you have business involved so how do you create this balance? Honestly, we had no balance. I'm so glad you're really honest about it. No, it was actually really, really nuts how much we used to work and how much we'd only talk about work. And there came a point where we would only see each other because we were so busy and so swamped that I stopped seeing friends and I just would see my family. I'd travel with my family. And I think it was a blessing in disguise. Like, I think that's what made us be able to

achieve so much so quickly because we were four people together 24 seven and just talking about work and just, you know, we wouldn't get bored of each other. You know, if you're working with colleagues, it might be like, okay, it might be a bit tough to work with them through the nights, every single night and all the time and never take time off. But if it's with your family, at least there is that bit of like, okay, well, it's my family that I'm spending nights and days with. So it keeps you going a bit longer. So I think that lack of balance helped us achieve so much so fast, but it was really unhealthy and I'm not doing it anymore. You're like, no, I'm not going to lie. And so I kind of ask things like, I also feel like when you're with family, you can perhaps cross lines that you wouldn't cross with colleagues. Like maybe be a little bit more brutal with your feedback or say something that's maybe not as

filtered as it would be with a colleague. How did you resolve like healthy debates or arguments or squabbles like was your dad like the referee in it or like how like the dynamics of like you like three sisters as well right I mean I don't have sisters my understanding is like sisters can be a little bit volatile to each other in some cases like so I'm asking because I know there's so many people that start things with siblings or partners, like spouses. So I feel like hearing from you guys who have ultimately managed to do this very successfully, hearing these challenging times is also really allowing them to kind of learn from some of these pieces. Well, I think that first and foremost, we've been super close even before starting the business together.

And when you're close to anyone, you have a lot less of a filter. In fact, I think you just have no filter. And we've been used to that for such a long time. But of course, it did become challenging when it's like you have no filter and you're on to other people. It makes it a bit challenging. But I think the best thing that we all did is at one point, we all realized that every single one of us like Huda, Alia, myself and Chris, Huda's husband, like every single one of us

had very different personalities and very different strengths and weaknesses. And we all just focused on each other's strengths and said, Okay, you have this gift, let's let you lead with that. And we just tried to focus on each other's strengths rather than focus on why we're all so different. We all think very differently. And sometimes it can get really challenging because we all challenge each other. But instead of just focusing on that, we're just trying to see how we can, you know, take the good out of it. And we have a life coach slash therapist that Hood has been working with for like, maybe I think five years now. And we do some counseling sometimes. maybe I think five years now and we do some

counseling sometimes and I really really encourage people to do that because having someone to kind of mediate and kind of help you understand how you're feeling about certain things can change everything so much so it definitely helps but it's not easy at all but it's definitely worth it if you can make it work and if you're committed to making it work. I agree with that because Natalie and I, we've done therapy. We each do our own therapy and then we've done joint things as well. And I would always say like, when you are working with people, and I think this is a beauty of like co-founders, it's like, you do want people who are different from you. And so therefore it's very natural that you are not always going to be exactly on like the same page with the micro decisions.

I think ultimately, everyone needs to have the same big vision. If you don't, I think fundamentally there's something wrong. But you have the same big vision, but it's like, okay, well, I want to get there by going doing these stops on the way, or you want to get there by going these stops and hang on, what is best for the company? So I think it's really powerful to have those differing opinions and being able to challenge each other but like you say it's understanding how to challenge how to have the conversations and work through them so that they don't hold you back and actually propel you forwards and for Natalie and I over the last three years we've had many of it

like you know many of those conversations and one thing that we've always really learned I say we actually see the same therapist and that's also helped us with like communication and being able to say, okay. So she taught us something with even in our relationships, not even just with each other, just be able to say like, Hey, when you said this, the story I told myself was this. And they're like, no, no, no, no. Or like, and I just think that's really powerful when you learn like conscious communication is really, really important so that you can kind of use the energy in the right way versus like having it be negative or those disagreements or those challenges hold you back. So I'm really glad you brought therapy into it. I know it's a bit

of a passion of yours, right? I love it. Yes, I actually like I am looking into different courses because I always do like to future plan. And obviously one day I probably will retire at least operationally from the company and my part two of my life forever until the day I die. I think I do want to get into healing and therapy because I just love helping people. Like that's the one thing that makes me just vibrate at the highest level. And, you know, I love business so much and I love problem solving and I love creating and I love, I love business, but I love healing people way more. Like that's just something that excites me on like a very, like on a soul level. That's so beautiful. And you've kind of brought that into your company, right? Is that why you introduced, I heard you have like self-love days. Tell us about those.

Yes. This is beautiful. I think this is like, whether you have a huge business or whether you have like a tiny business or whether it's even just you, I think this concept is really amazing. Thank you so much. Well, you know, as I mentioned, we are a super, super lean and mean team and everybody is always working so hard. And they're really like, our team is just, I can't say enough good things about them. They're just incredible rock stars. And we just realized like people are working so hard and we really wanted to give them more time to give love to themselves and make sure that they're filling their own cup. So we introduced once a month to have a self-love day where they just had a day to take care

of themselves, to give themselves love. And we actually share in our WhatsApp group, like what everybody's doing to kind of encourage other people to like get a massage or do something fun. Obviously COVID kind of changed it up for us and kind of made like everybody's self-love day very different, but we just really want to encourage people to take time for themselves and switch off completely and make sure that they're taking care of their mental health. Because if you don't make a day for yourself to do that yourself, like we just always end up putting it behind us, especially A-type personalities, people who are so hardworking, who are always just checking the emails around the clock on the weekends. Like we're just like, don't do it. Nobody contact anyone on self-love day. We're all just here to give love to ourselves.

And we actually, during COVID, we did get to twice a month at one stage. And the goal is to hopefully get to a four-day work week at some point, if we're able to just not drop any balls and stay on top of things. Because we really feel like, you know, if people are rock stars and they're working super hard, there's no reason why they shouldn't get, you know, an extra day off if they can manage it yeah and i totally think that this big balance between like hustling so hard and burning yourself out and actually not being able to be productive not being able to show up in the way that the company needs you to versus saying like hey actually i'm really exhausted like i need this day to recuperate like

for natalie and i we actually did for the first time ever a light mode over Christmas. So we had two weeks where we put like no meetings. The team could just work any hours that they needed. They just had a few small tasks to get done. And otherwise it was like they could be off because what we realized in our team was that we were all so exhausted that we needed to kind of recharge a little bit. And I think when you can't expect yourself, you can't expect those who work with you to keep going full steam all the time. And actually it's far more productive to take that day off to recharge and come back stronger than it is not to. So I really see like a lot of the logic in that. And I do think I, again, lesson for entrepreneurs, it's like, you've got to like work really, really hard, but you also like,

you're only going to be successful as you're mentally and physically capable of being, and like you are your biggest resource, right? So what does it look like to look after that? I think is really powerful. So I think it's amazing. I love that you guys did that too. I love that. I'm ready. I'm taking so many notes from everything you're saying. I'm like, light mode. Yes. Definitely yes definitely love it first time that we have ever done it and it was so successful like I literally want to do it every single year because particularly for Christmas I mean I guess it depends like what different for what sector you're in maybe it's like a different like I've heard of people doing light mode in like the

summer as well when it's like certain is better, maybe not for retail, et cetera. But this for us was just like the perfect time. And whereas before, like if everyone's on, I'm on, it was kind of like, oh, actually it was nice to be able to breathe. And we came back, we charged and it also allowed us to pull out from the business a little bit and kind of go, oh, okay, well, all these, that's some of the big things that we want to work on. So that was really powerful. I love that. I just took three weeks off and I haven't done that since I love that. I just took three weeks off. And I haven't done that since I graduated university. I haven't taken much time off at all since I graduated. And that was back in 2008. And I have to tell you, I feel like a different

human being. I feel like I grew so much in those three weeks as much as I've grown in the past 10 years from a spiritual mental point of view. So I completely agree with you when you're, especially when you're working so hard, you need to switch off. You need to take time off. You need to reflect. You need to just observe yourself and observe the business too and understand like, how can you do things better? And if you're constantly like in overdrive, you're going to make so many mistakes and you're probably just not going to see anything clearly. Yes, completely. Like you say, it's like those mistakes while you're in it versus being able to pull out and look. Well, I'm curious, what did you do with the three weeks that allowed you to really grow in that

period? Because I know that's what I could hear the listeners go, what did she do? This might sound crazy. And yeah, I'm just going to say I talk to myself so much. Like I would go on these daily morning walks and I would talk to myself in a voice and I recorded it. I would voice note myself for about an hour, sometimes an hour and a half. I literally said every single thought that was in my mind. And I did a lot of reflection. So I just went back to what were all my mistakes that I've made over the past year, the past two years, three years.

And just, I really tried to focus on myself and like how I can be better and like what I've done wrong. What are my patterns? I did a lot of therapy too. Lots of listening to really incredible podcasts because I think that's a great way to grow. So it was lots of listening, listening to myself, lots of speaking, lots of journaling and good therapy. Oh my goodness. So during this interview, I asked you like some of the biggest needle movers that helped you grow. And we said hiring is one. I feel like, would you say mindset as another? Cause I feel like that's something that we've touched on a lot and seems quite important. Absolutely. Like 1000%. I think I

personally have always been into mindset because like I grew up on Tony Robbins, like for myself, he's been a part of my upbringing. I went through like a depression when I was like 13 years old, and like he helped me get out of it. So I've always been into like self help and coaching. But I think getting actual like therapy and counseling and an actual coach does transform things. And Huda has always been really keen on that. She's been working with an incredible coach and therapist for over five years. Her name's Kira. And recently, it's been about a year we've kind of integrated her into the company. So she actually works with most of the company by request. She's available and she does

weekly workshops. And that has been really pivotal. So I think just having somebody to be able to coach everyone and just have someone to be able to even mediate if there's any issues, that has been game changing. So like you said, 1000%, very, very important. And it will change the game if you change your mindset and if you could also help change your entire team's mindset and make sure maybe they had a positive mindset, but it can also change. So you've got to keep it strong. It's like a muscle, you have to keep working on it and keep up the exercise, I guess, of staying positive and staying, yeah, just, I don't know, better. No, it's so important. It's like an exercise. It's a muscle you've got to exercise and strengthen.

Yes. And then what would be a third thing? So another last thing that you're like, yeah, this is a really key thing for moving the business forwards. I honestly, there's just so many things. I'm trying to think if there was one other thing, I think it would be really focusing on e-commerce. We actually did that late in the game, direct to consumer. So when we first launched, we were focused on our retail partners. And just recently,

I'd say it's been about two years, we really started focusing on our own e-commerce. And I think that's crucial for every single business nowadays. And especially after seeing what happened with COVID and just understanding that you can't fully rely on your retail partners, you know, because if they're affected drastically, like people have shut down their business like overnight and there's just been so many changes. So I think just having our finger on the pulse when it comes to D2C has been really, really important. And during a year like 2020, it's been something that's really helped us save the profitability of the business as well yeah so true like i feel like we're direct to consumer as well like also i think you can really learn so much from the customers really really quickly to like evolve your products which is really really cool thank you so so much for sharing those things i have one last question

sure of course i really like starting to ask this to all of our guests, because I think it's a really good reflection to do sometimes, because when you kind of achieve a certain level or you've done something, it kind of becomes a little bit, oh, yeah, what would I have done? So my question is this, and I'll just cut to the chase and give you the question. Like, if you had to start from scratch, what would you do? Oh, my gosh. That's such a good question. from scratch what would you do oh my gosh that's such a good question what would you do I just I would do so much the first thing that comes to my head which probably is like because at some point I had to take over the tech part of the business I would have started with like really good softwares and like a good ER system, because right now we're like still in the process of

integrating our new ERP system. So I think just like having your, I think it's like the back end of your business, having it properly done from day one is just, it's so crucial. And especially when you're scaling, if you didn't have the right softwares in place, like it can be a nightmare and it can also be the reason why you make so many mistakes. So I would probably say like really make sure that you're doing everything properly from like the backend because yeah, supply chain can be a nightmare if you don't have the right systems in place. And I think that's something that we struggled with. So I think that's a really dorky answer. I kind of want to change it, but it's the first thing that comes to my head I feel like with the same person you're speaking to my heart really exactly the answer that I would say yes because I think like this like there's so much

glory in the marketing and you have to get that right and you also like cannot take your eyes off the back end of the business because as well like if your customers like it's all very well like selling on the front end but if you can't deliver and service on the back end and keep those systems smooth they can ultimately tell on the front end again so I think there's a lot of like argument for why that's so so important so yeah I love that and I'm a fan and I also share I like I said at the beginning like I feel like me and you have had very similar hats during our time in the business like just like diving in and rolling up our sleeves for all the jobs that no one else wants to do I feel like me and you have had them oh I feel your pain so that was the last question but it does one more I want you to share like

what's next for Huda Beauty and your new fragrance line right KLA because I think that's like I'd love to hear a little bit more about those yeah I mean for Huda Beauty so we launched KLA end of 2018 so it's been two years now and we have a lot of plans for KLA like that's really my baby it's my focus I'm a fragrance lover like I'm just obsessed with fragrances and I've always wanted to have my own brand. So that was something that was really important to me. And I've just been working on a lot of things that we're launching this year. We had a lot planned for last year, but because of COVID, we had to push a lot of things out. So 2021 should be fire for Kayali. So stay tuned. There's a lot coming. Yes. And we also launched our skincare line last year, Wishful.

So that's been a very important brand, especially to Huda. I think for her own beauty journey, you know, originally she was only like cake face 24 seven, and then now she's going for like more of a natural look. So just making sure that your own skin is really flawless is important to her too. So Wishful is an important baby to Huda. But for ourselves, we also have an investment arm called HBI, which is HB Investments. And it's a private investment office by the family. And we are incubating some really incredible brands. Actually, one of the brands that we're incubating is by an ex-employee. And we're helping her start her own brand. And we're so excited about this.

It's something just so meaningful. And there's some other brands too that we're incubating and then some others that we're investing in. So that's something that we're just really, really excited about. And we've started an arm called HP Angels, which is really focused on women-led businesses. So yeah, that's something that me and Huda and the whole family are very, very, very passionate about. That is amazing. you are literally speaking to my heart like that i think it's so amazing like how lovely to be able to support particularly like an ex-employee as well and like their next venture and just i'm so excited we invest in like female-led businesses too and it's just like such a passion i'm like so, so amazing to like, see these businesses grow.

Yeah, we just, you know, like, our team helped us build our dreams, and they're still continuing to help us build our dreams. So to be able to do it back for them is just so rewarding. And when you find people who have that magic inside of them, and that founder spirit, and they have a vision, it's just like, it's an honor to be able to help them create it so yeah we're so pumped and you know hopefully 2021 will be a more stable year for the world hopefully but regardless no matter what we're going to make it work we're just going to find a way to make it huge and amazing and yeah I couldn't be more excited for her and for all the brands that we're working on. True entrepreneurial spirit right there. Thank you. Thank you, Mona. This interview has been incredible. Thank you for showing up so full and valuable and sharing your wisdom. It's literally amazing. And I would love for

the listeners just to kind of share your favorite takeaways that you've had on this episode. So, Mona, do you want to share your handle so people can tag you? Yeah, my handle is monacatine. So yeah, just at want to share your handle so people can tag you? Yeah, my handle is monacaton. So yeah, just at monacaton. Love it. Nice and simple. And you guys can tag me as well at daniellecanti and tag at bossbabe.inc. But thank you so, so much, Mona.

This was amazing. Thank you so much. Thank you for everything that you guys do as well. I'm a huge fan of what you guys have been doing. And I love everything, your page, your content, like every time I'm feeling like I need some inspiration, I go to your page and your podcast. So thank you so much for everything you do. I love it. Yeah. When you need a bit of sass in your life. I always need sass in my life. I love it. Thank you so much. Thank you so much if you loved this episode please subscribe download a few more and please leave us a review I really want to hear what you enjoyed what your main takeaways were and I also want to know what

you want to hear us talk about next to say thanks for leaving us a review we'll send you a copy of the boss babe 25 the boss of 25 is the 25 essential resources you need for personal and professional growth it covers everything from our favorite rituals books and hacks if you want a copy just leave us a review screenshot it and send to podcast at bosswave.com we will then email you a copy asap and since we love instagram you can go to the hashtag the boss babe podcast and find our latest post and leave a question in the comments we love reading through the comments and we'll make sure to answer it on our next podcast