the bossbabe podcast - 152. Lunya’s Founder Ashley Merrill on Leadership, Motivation and Scaling

Episode Date: March 4, 2021

Join BossBabe Co-Founder & CEO Natalie Ellis and special guest Ashley Merrill as they lift the lid on Ashley’s real motivation behind starting her sleepwear brands and unpack what defines good leadership in a startup and the importance of being bought into the mission of the company you’re working for. Use Code “BOSSBABE” to save 15% on Organifi: https://www.organifishop.com/?platform=grin&link_id=197330&token=L15vwSVaVFQJ4L0RFsmr19ktxzGR4tuK&contact_id=03ece88a-2535-4077-b980-1e3998cf01a5&attribution_window=30 Use Code “BOSSBABE20” to save 20% on Soul CBD: https://www.mysoulcbd.com Follow:  BossBabe: @bossbabe.inc Natalie: @iamnatalie Ashley: @ashley__merrill

okay so I want to interrupt this episode quickly to tell you about a brand that I am completely obsessed with so if you watch my stories you'll know that every single morning I make a smoothie with organifi protein it is the best tasting protein I have ever found I am completely obsessed with it and I don't just use it in smoothies. I use the vanilla protein to make protein pancakes and I use the chocolate protein to make brownies. So it kind of takes the guilt out of it and you get tons of protein in say brownies or anything else you're baking. It's such a good addition because it tastes so so good. So I've already talked about protein. I talk about it every single day. I want to tell you about something else. So I'm all about focus, productivity, all the things.

Obviously, the way you look after your brain is really important. But they also say that your second brain is in your gut. And I haven't actually found another product that does this. But Organifi Pure actually works with both brains. So it's focused on gut and brain health. So it hydrates. It detoxifies. it provides digestive support, it's focused and memory enhancing, it increases brain derived neurotropic factor. It is absolutely incredible. And it's got so much good stuff in there. Lion's Mane,

you know that I'm a massive fan of including mushrooms every single day in smoothies. We even had Lifecycle on here to talk about their mushroom blends. I absolutely love them. It actually lines me in inside this. It also has organic apple cider vinegar, probiotics, digestive enzymes, aloe vera. It's really, really amazing. And I typically have it every single day around two or three, whenever I kind of get that energy focus slump, if I've had a really crazy day, I have a glass of that and it really, really boosts my brain and just makes me feel way more awake without the caffeine. So I'm a big fan. So if you want to check it out, as well as tons of other products that I really, really love at Organifi, get the proteins, get the Organifi Pure and also get the chocolate gold. It's amazing. You can use the code BOSSBABE and save 15% on everything. So that's BOSSBABE at Organifi. So use the code BOSSBABE,

15% off at Organifi.com. And I'll let us dive back into the episode. When I used to look at leaders before I really was in this role, I would think of them as almost robotic, right? Like they were just hardcore, professional, no room for emotion. And I have found that people respond well to vulnerability and to humanity. And I try to bring that to my leadership as best as possible. Welcome to the Boss Babe podcast, a place where we share with you the real behind the scenes of building successful businesses, achieving peak performance and learning how to balance it all. I'm Natalie Ellis, co-founder and CEO of Boss Babe and your host for

this episode. Okay, you guys, we've got some serious updates coming at you. So as you know, I've been talking about moving for the longest time now. It feels like all I've been talking about is moving, but we finally moved out of our house, which was honestly so sad and really scary like part of me is like am I making the right decision is this completely crazy but it does feel like the right decision and I am really excited there's obviously just like a lot of moving parts when you are moving so what's happening is we moved out and then I'm actually still staying in LA for an extra week because we have a brand new version of the society launching in May and then we've also got a new product coming in March oh god it's this month oh my god so I have to film a ton of content

for that so I'm going to be really focusing on getting all of that done before I head to Austin because obviously I have support here in LA when I'm filming and I'd rather everything's looking professional and I don't have to think about it so that's happening then we're moving to Austin we're moving into a place that we're just renting for now, but we are still building the house. So on Monday, we're gonna kick off the whole design process. We've already designed the exterior and like all of the structural things.

So soon we'll be on Monday designing all the inside. So picking what the kitchen looks like and the bathroom and all the things. So there's lots going on. And it definitely just reminded me, even though there's lots of craziness happening externally, there's so much you can do to ground yourself in the now and in the present, no matter where you are. And for me, that's my morning routine. That's my evening routine. That's having certain things or doing certain things that remind my brain to tap into

flow state or my brain to be calm and be grounded so that's been really helpful so even though there's tons of stuff going on I actually feel really grounded everything's under control yes there's a lot going on but I'm not letting it be chaotic so that feels really really good and just such a good lesson that your routines really are everything like for me in the morning having my morning coffee with all the bougie shit in it that you know that I love having that whilst reading a book journaling taking some time to just get quiet that has been so helpful for me and really just helped me start my day and at the absolute best way so that feels really good that's the update so the next time you'll hear me, I'll be coming to you from Austin. And so before I introduce today's guest as well and

dive in, I want to take a moment because I was just looking at my calendar before doing this, and it made me realize that almost a year ago, the entire world essentially shut down with really no clue how long it would last or what the impact would be. And with that, a lot of business owners had to get really good at pivoting. And even at Boss Babe, where a majority of our business has always been in the digital space, we had to pivot. We actually did have an in-person office in LA, which we've closed down. And although there've been so many businesses really adversely impacted, there've been just as many whose biggest wrench in their plans was actually the biggest gift in their business.

This includes our guest who was just getting ready to deep dive into brick and mortar as the shutdowns hit. So today's guest is Ashley Merrill. She is the founder of Lunia and Largo, both product-based businesses that are reinventing sleepwear for the modern woman and man with a simple mission to make people feel confidently comfortable at home and within themselves. I actually tried Lunia for the first time, I think it was three years ago. Stephen bought it for me as a gift as Ashley was a friend of his. And so I remember trying it on and just being so in awe of how comfortable it was and how thoughtfully it was designed. And I just Instagram DM'd her right away and I was like,

what you've created here is magic. And beyond her sleepwear entrepreneurship, she's also principal at an impact investing firm where she leverages her background in venture technology and the arts to invest in ways that leverage businesses to create opportunity and move humanity forward on top of that if it wasn't already enough she is the CEO and co-founder of the deep which is a media platform that makes philosophy and personal exploration accessible through thought-provoking questions and content. Now at Boss Babe, we've always been committed to not only showing the end result, but letting you in behind the scenes on what it really takes to start and grow a brand and business, which is why I'm so excited about

this conversation with Ashley, because we've really pulled back the curtain on the natural human side of starting a business. So be sure to have a pen and notepad handy because every single minute of this episode is packed with value. And as always, take a screenshot and share your biggest takeaways on Insta stories, tagging me at IamNotElite and at BossWave.inc. And if you want to go the extra mile and you really want to support us, the best thing that you could do would be leave a review. Leave a five-star review because I know you love a review leave a five-star review because i know you love it leave a five-star review and let people know why you love the podcast because it honestly makes such a massive difference so please pull out your phone and do that now if you are not

driving that would be so so appreciated a boss babe is unapologetically ambitious and paves the way for herself and other women to rise, keep going, and fighting on. She is on a mission to be her best self in all areas. It's just believing in yourself. Confidently stepping outside her comfort zone to create her own vision of success. Welcome to the podcast. Thank you so much for having me so I want to dive in just at the deep end with Lunya and hear your story but just generally how are things going COVID has been a whole whirlwind for every

business on the planet so how are things going for you right now yeah so I think whirlwind is the right way to describe it or a roller coaster ride however you position it I think it's one of those things that has been a series of ups and downs through the whole journey. March really threw us some curve balls. And then we saw a bit of a rebound in April. And I think now as people are recognizing they're going to be home for a while, we're pretty lucky in that still they're very interested in buying sleepwear. So it's been a good place. That's great. I mean, I've been living in my Lugnes for a very, very long time because I'm used to this work from home life. And actually Stephen's wearing Lago today. I got him that as a surprise like a month ago. So I'm really, really

familiar with how comfortable your brands are. So it's no surprise that people are still wanting to spend time in them during working from home. I would love to know, how did you get started on your entrepreneurial journey? Was Lugner your first venture or did you have something before that? Do you remember having like a light bulb moment? So the way I would describe it would be certainly I felt the opportunity and I related to the opportunity very personally. I was wearing my husband's old clothes and was looking for something better, frankly, something that could be comfortable, but still that I could feel cute in and sleep well in. And that was the impetus. And I wasn't initially thinking I was going to be starting a company. I was just trying to solve my own problem.

And then through the course of exploration, realized there wasn't anybody that was thinking about clothes for this time of day in a very problem-solving way. There was cute clothes, sexy clothes, really nothing that was very functional while still being something that was cool that I would want to wear. And so that really piqued my interest there. But even when I thought that I had a good idea, I didn't start right away. I think I just, I'm plagued by what many people are plagued by, right? Is loss of self-doubt. And so I didn't start, sat on the idea for a while, thought if it's a good idea, why isn't someone else doing it? And then also balanced that nicely with the question,

why do I think I would be able to do that? So those two questions kept me pretty much on the sidelines for a little while. And then at a certain point, my husband and I decided to start a family and I had started business husband and I decided to start a family and I had started business school and I got pregnant and then had a real now or never moment really went you know what it is a good idea there's a reason I can't get rid of this idea it keeps coming back for me

and that's because it is good and it has potential and frankly at that point I realized I would just rather have swinging a bat at that and take a shot and have it not be successful than never take a shot and have to explain that to my kids and so ultimately that helped me get over that apprehension that I had and really take the plunge I love that and I think so many people can relate to that self-doubt and having these ideas and then sometimes seeing other people run with their ideas and being like, that could have been me. And so what was it like getting started with Lunya, deciding, okay, we're going to do this. We need to find manufacturers. I know a lot of thought went into the products that you have and the way you tailor them, the fabrics, everything. One thing for me that just stood out when I ordered my first pair of lanyards was

it didn't have a seam running through the middle of my trousers, which blew my mind that no one was doing that. Yeah. I appreciate that. You know, I love that you noticed that detail. Yeah. So, I mean, I started, what's nice is I think I could start from a customer mindset and that's always, what do they call that? The beginner's mindset. Well, I didn't have to pretend at that. That was very honest for me.

But what I did know is what felt comfortable and what I was desiring to wear and where the gaps were. And so I frankly started with what I could understand. And I also reached out to a lot of people I knew and got feedback from them too. What are you wearing? Why are you wearing that? What do you wish it did? Does it suit you at night when you're sleeping?

When does it not? How could we make that better? I mean, just lots of questions is really where it began. And at the beginning, I will tell you, fashion is a tough business to get started in because it's a scale business. No manufacturer or mill, which are the people that sew or create your fabric, want to really talk to you until you're at considerable scale. And that creates a bit of a chicken before the egg problem. So the place I started was with good design and really

soft and high quality fabrics. So we went about looking at the way that we live in our product and thought about where should seams be, where should seams not be? What are good pockets? What are bad pockets? What are good waistbands? What are issues that come up with straps and support and see-through issues? And just like really taking a full inventory of everything we've ever wanted or had in clothing and figuring out what makes sense in this context and what doesn't. And so really started from that place, again, a problem solving point of view, and then looked at fabrics. And though I had some aspiration about creating my own fabrics,

that would be very, very best in class. You don't always get to start from there. So I went, Hey, at least if I could solve some of the design problems and create and have good quality fabric, I'd already be miles ahead of what I was seeing on the market. And so I went, let me just get comfortable with starting there. You have to start somewhere. And then I can build on that as my minimums increase and I can go to better manufacturers and, and increase my fabric orders. And that's exactly what happened. So over time, my ability to produce product caught up with what my vision for what the product should be. Yeah. And I think that's one thing that just comes through that's been done so well from the beginning. And you can really

tell you've got your consumer in mind, the fact that your silk is washable. That's an issue that we all have, or the way the seams are placed, the way you can sit in the pants and eat a big meal and not feel like you're being suffocated. All of those things, when you are experiencing the product, you realize it's different. I want to go back to when you first started. Do you remember having your first sale come through and what it was really like getting the business off the ground? Well, initially we started in brick and mortar, but not true brick and mortar, I should say. We started in real life. So we started by having, I ordered Ikea racks and put them in my living room and invited over my friends. That was really how the first sale started because remember,

this was in 2014. Really, it was like early 2014. So not every brand was digital at this point. And so we were actually an anomaly in the idea that we were going to launch digital first. There was a few before us right around the same time, but it was still the kind of rarity. And so a lot of we did do this interesting hybrid. It starts small. I wasn't one of the companies that I didn't take in a bunch of funding and do a very splashy launch with tons of pent up demand. I had to build demand. I wasn't in a category that was already booming. We were building a category. And so I think from that, it was not the fast, crazy whirlwind of success that sometimes you read about in the paper, the magazine, and you learn that, okay, everybody, success looks like this. That wasn't what it looked like for me. I think for me, having people buy the products

and then come back and tell me that they hate that they have to wash them sometimes because it means that that's a day they can't wear it. Those were the markers of success for me. And those were really the moments when I think I felt a lot of pride in what I was doing and conviction about the direction we were heading in. But it was a slow build. And I think eventually we got to the place where we tested enough product, where I felt more confident in the product and then put it online and then tested that for a while, then got comfortable buying some ads against it.

We were still fulfilling out of our store for quite a long time. So I would say it was a very slow build iterative process. And how have things been with the store? So moving forward from 2014 to 2020 now where you have multiple stores and COVID hit, what was that like for you to deal with? I've had a couple of entrepreneurs on the podcast who just talking about being completely blindsided. Yeah. I mean, I'll say in certain ways we were lucky. We had a very aggressive retail growth plan for 2020 and we were behind in our retail growth plan. And I guess I've never been so happy to be behind on anything. And so we still had with four locations, we had

two in New York, one that was right about to open in Atlanta, and then one in Los Angeles. And so I think COVID was wild because it went from being this remote thing that we heard about because our manufacturers were dealing with it in China, to something that was really suddenly on our doorstep and very relevant for us. And even when it happened, even when we went home, I don't think any of us thought it was going to be what it has become, the prolonged lifestyle shift. So our retail stayed open for a little while after we even closed down headquarters and went into work from home. Obviously, we wanted to make sure people were safe. But at the same

time, those were jobs and those were income stream or revenue streams that we were trying to hold open as long as we could. And we did. And then eventually we did close them. And that pivoted the whole company despite, I mean, we were strong online, but we had really been scaling up for brick and mortar expansion. So we had to go through all the things that you're hearing about, furloughing teams, laying off people, diminishing pay for a period of time. It was basically all the things as a business owner that I never wanted to have to

go through. We had been very up and to the right until that point. And this was a new experience for me. I was lucky in the sense that I had a very strong C team that I was going through a lot of this with that I was planning with. And we were contingency planning and trying to make quick shifts where we could communicate new direction to the team. We knew that this wasn't just a company problem. This was a world crisis. So you have a situation too, where people are looking for stability from their leaders. And I'm trying to make as much possible stability out of the most unstable situation I possibly could. But these are unforeseeable circumstances. So closed the stores, they are still closed, pivoted very much online, were helped out by the fact that so did most of transactions. And so that's where we're at now. Let's take a quick pause to talk about my new favorite all-in-one platform, Kajabi.

You know, I've been singing their praises lately because they have helped our business run so much smoother and with way less complexity, which I love. Not to mention our team couldn't be happier because now everything is in one place so it makes collecting data, creating pages, collecting payment, all the things so much simpler. One of our mottos at Boss Babe is simplify to amplify and Kajabi has really helped us do that this year. So of course I needed to share it here with you. It's the perfect time of year to do a bit of spring cleaning in your business you know. Get rid of the complexity and instead really focus on getting organized and making things as smooth as possible. I definitely recommend Kajabi to all of my clients and students

so if you're listening and haven't checked out Kajabi yet now is the perfect time to do so because they are offering Boss Babe listeners a 30-day free trial go to kajabi.com slash boss babe to claim your 30-day free trial that's kajabi.com slash boss babe yeah and it's so crazy in one month to go from a conversation around how do we keep scaling to how do we survive when it feels like it's all out of your control oh it is very whiplash yes yeah so okay so coming back to when you were building up the business and you were still thinking about do we go into stores we've got an e-commerce presence you also started another company alongside it Largo doing same thing for men, which I know Stephen was really happy about because every time I put on my luna, it's like, there's nothing like this for men. And so what was it like for you having

this company, Luna, growing whilst also starting another company? And then we'll get to you doing that with the Deep as well. Yeah. So I started Lago in, it was October, 2019. And that really came out of a few different drivers, really. The foremost was that men were asking for it. Initially, I figured women were the bigger audience because women tend to wear more in bed and around the home. But it became clear that there was a lot of men that were looking for this. And I think that also as roles were changing and men were getting comfortable living into their roles at home too, like a, what do I wear at home conversation? And then I realized here, I have men asking for this product. And in a weird way, I should be serving men and women. I don't want to create some situation

where I'm only making at home products for women. Like how ironic would that be when that's absolutely not what I'm looking for here. So it was this launching Logo became a really fun journey because we got to explore the world through someone else's eyes. In a lot of ways, Unia was, that process was made easier because I could trust my own gut and interpretation on it. But Logo is a different beast entirely. So I had focus groups with men. How do you use the internet? What's your favorite website? What makes you decide to buy a product? What are your favorite things about the products you wear at home? I mean, just starting from ground zero,

we wanted to build it for men from the very moment. That's why we didn't put it under LUNIA. We wanted a very thoroughly male experience. And so that's really where we went with Largo. And it's been really fun and rewarding and also just lovely to see my husband wearing our product around nonstop. So that's been good too. I love that. And were there certain things in the marketing space that you learned with Lunya that you could apply to Largo and see results quicker? Like was doing ads a certain way or influencer marketing or billboards, was there specific things that you were like, yeah, this actually worked really well. Let me do the exact same thing with Largo. So certainly that's true. I think that's

definitely true on the product side, right? We already had established really great fabric collections and there's no need to reinvent the wheel there. We wanted to start with the things that were working. My philosophy is make fewer better things and only add very slowly and intentionally as demand needs it. So started with a very tight capsule, just like I did with Lunia and are iterating on that over time. So certainly that's a thing that I learned from the Lunia experience. And I think another one is resonance really matters. Figuring out how do you make a social media Instagram that really tailors to its audience now that it's a different audience than Lunya's.

And I think one of the greatest ways that we're able to lean into Lunya to make Laga work was oftentimes, as an example with you, right? It's oftentimes a significant other that's maybe purchasing the item. And so it's great. I have a really strong loyal customer base that loves Lunya and we're all too excited to get their significant other in the product. And so I think that's probably one of the most useful ways acquiring new audience. And then when it comes to say ads or email marketing, what's been your preferred way that you've seen across the brands just really, really working? Certainly, and I'll speak to Lunya in particular,

it's bigger, so the results are more impactful. But I would certainly say email is fabulous, because email is free. And you're speaking to people that are already interested in your product. So it's like a friendly audience. And so I certainly love email. But I would say we've been one of the brands too that's had good success through ads and I think that that's really great because it does allow you to acquire a new audience and has helped prop us up during these COVID times so certainly I'm a fan of online advertising particularly Google, Facebook, Instagram at this point though I do imagine over time that competition will be growing.

Yeah, I think it's so great for e-com brands to be able to do that and retargeting. I know whenever I land on your site, I then see you all over social. And I think anyone that doesn't have that setup is just missing such a big opportunity to remind people to finish that purchase. That's right. That's right. It's worked well. Yeah. So coming back to what I really love to talk about is it feels like you're really multi-passionate and you're able to juggle so many different brands at the same time. And I'm really curious what it is about you that loves doing that. Are you the visionary creative type? Do you love starting new things? Like what kind of entrepreneurial archetype do you see yourself as? I love that question. And I think there's a few answers that I would give you to that actually. One of them is we use this exercise at LUNIA called Ikigai. And at the Ikigai, it's a Japanese word that you might be familiar with it, but it's basically

this word that talks about finding joy, but finding it through having, and it's more work centric, but having something that you do that you're good at, people value, the world needs, and someone is willing to pay you for. And there's a cool exercise. If you Google it, you can find really great exercise and you can fill it out. And as you start to overlap the circles, you'll narrow in on this one central point, which would be this ikigai. What is the thing that you love to do? And it doesn't always spit out. It's not going to spit out necessarily like, oh, this is the job title you have, but it's more like, what is the actual thing you love to do? And for me, I love creative problem solving. Like love it. Once there's no more problems to solve,

I'm less interested. So that's really what gets me engaged. I really do love it. Once there's no more problems to solve, I'm less interested. So that's really what gets me engaged. I really do love that. And then I've recently been a fan of the high five test. Another one that I actually have my whole team take that. And I have noticed because I give it to sometimes I'll give it to founders of companies before I invest in them or giving it to most of my employees. But I do notice that among founders, there's common attributes. And for me, the ones that, so I have catalyst, which is like someone who's good at starting things and gaining momentum, as well as optimist, brainstormer, and doer, and problem solver. So those are my top five. And those are not atypical for people that founder

types. So I think it's typical to see optimist and problem solver and catalyst in those top five. So I would say certainly there's something in me that does love the problem solving part of what it means to build new brands and help nurture them. Yeah, I love that. All right, I hope you enjoyed the episode so far. Stay tuned as we share a bit of info about who supported this episode. Okay, I couldn't be more excited to share this episode sponsor with you

because it's a brand that I've been using and sharing organically for a really, really long time. So this episode is sponsored by Soul CBD. I've been using Soul CBD consistently for over 18 months now and please do not take it lightly when I tell you that it has been a game changer for me and so many people that I know. I've noticed a really big difference in a lot of ways so I'll just dive into a couple specifically but firstly my deep sleep. You know I track absolutely everything I do in regards to my sleep with my aura ring so when I take sleep supplements I do them individually so I can see which ones actually make a difference I'm all about simplifying to amplify I don't want to take 10 things if it's

two things that are actually making a difference so I tested it and when I take CBD on an evening I get almost double the amount of deep sleep that I'm used to which means your sleep is more efficient you're waking up feeling a lot more refreshed, it's really really good for your brain, your focus, all the things that we need more of. So there's a couple of tricks I want to share with you. So what I do is I put the liquid straight under my tongue, it tastes really good, but you want to leave it there for a few seconds before swallowing it. This is really important and then every week or so you want to take a couple of days off taking it before bed so that your body doesn't get used to it, so the effects don't reduce. Trust me, try that. just even if you try one bottle I know you're

going to be hooked because it really really changes the game for your sleep and then the second thing you know I'm all about reducing stress in every shape and form but like you know entrepreneurship is not always the easiest career option so if I feel like I'm having an overly challenging day and notice any anxiety creeping in I take some CBD I have it in my desk drawer both at home and in the office and I just take a dropper of it under the tongue and within half an hour I also I feel so different so much lighter so much less anxious and stressed I love this product I know you'll love this product and that's why I'm so excited to genuinely continue sharing it with you so listeners of this podcast can actually get 20% off on soul CBD products using code BOSSBABE. Their top products

are the tincture that I mentioned, gummies which taste so good, bath bombs and sleep capsules. Their products are 100% organic, zero THC and third-party tested and you can get them at mysoulcbd.com and whilst I can speak to my personal experiences using Soul CBD, our bodies are all different. So please consult a doctor or other medical professional prior to deciding if CBD is right for you. Also worth noting that I live in California where it is legal to purchase and use CBD. So just give it a little check to see if it's legal where you are. And we're back. Let's jump straight into today's episode. running, I'm like, huh, what's next? And I'm really lucky. I have a business partner that's the opposite. She's like, I don't want anything new. Just give me something that's working and I'll make it better. And I think it's really important. You can probably speak to this, but

having someone as an entrepreneur like that, having someone that's really good at the rest. Yeah, definitely. I would say the company has grown so fast. We've doubled or more than doubled every year we've been in business. And that requires a lot of the people in the business, including myself. So if you think about it, just to maintain your job at a company growing at that clip, you personally need to level up your skills. Because let's just say you were a senior manager at a small company. Maybe it makes a million dollars a year. Well, the next year, million dollars a year. Well,

the next year, let's say that company makes, I'm going to do like a $7 million a year. That's what early growth looks like. Suddenly the needs are very different and your role, even just to keep that same title and scope gets a lot harder. So you personally have to level up and that's just to maintain your current job and title. That's not talking about growth on top of it. That's where oftentimes you'll go to small companies and people have big inflated titles. And then you go to big companies and they have diminished titles. And you have to reconcile that because oftentimes the titles and the sort of scope, they're very different depending on the size of the company. And so I give you that long-winded explanation because that is true for me too. What was required of me in terms of me leveling

myself up and my skill sets up has been enormous. And unfortunately, early days, I think I didn't do like a huge raise. We did fund the business, but it wasn't funded in the way that I could hire a lot of senior expensive people. And so really had to, it was sort of me and a team of people that were, it was sort of us against the world. Could we make it happen for a long time? And I would say that because that was hugely stressful and I didn't really have partnership in decision-making and frankly, having never run a business that was scaling that fast, or even that was as big as Lugna was becoming, I was quickly out of my depth. And so really, as of a year ago, brought on a C-team, a head of growth and a COO.

And I think to your point earlier, they've transformed what my role looks like and my ability to be effective in the role, because they forced me to level up and they've caused the whole team to level up. And I think that, to your point, that comes because they allowed me to play to my strengths and they had different strengths than I had. And so because of that, we could divide and conquer and level up everything and the company at the same time. Yeah, absolutely. It's like, oh, I can finally take a deep breath now and go back to the things I'm good at. This is everything. Yes. What would

you say you've learned most about leadership and management being part of a company that has scaled so fast? I have two things competing for that answer. I think one of them would be the importance of clarity. I think you never want to lose touch with what it felt like to work for somebody answer. I think one of them would be the importance of clarity. I think you never want to lose touch with what it felt like to work for somebody else. And you're struggling to build your own personal career path and career development. You're trying to figure out what it means to continue to level yourself up and get to the next level. And so when roles are super ambiguous, which they often are at companies that grow that fast because the needs of the company change often, but I do think

good leadership will do the very best it can to try to create some clarity for the individuals that work for them around scope and changing needs and feedback and all those kinds of things. It won't be perfect, but I do think that's an important priority for a leader. And then the other one is just humanness. And I think that's a funny thing to say, but I guess when I used to look at leaders before I really was in this role, I would think of them as almost robotic, right? Like they were just hardcore professionals, no room for emotion. And I have found that it is a very human, I don't know, I think it's a very human process and that people want to be connected with on a human level. And you don't have to have all the answers. And sometimes I go to my teams,

and I'll push them and I'll question them. And then we'll also be very vulnerable with each other around not having all the answers and that we need to work things out together. And then we'll also be very vulnerable with each other around not having all the answers and that we need to work things out together. And I have found that people respond well to vulnerability and to humanity. And I try to bring that to my leadership as best as possible. I love that. And I think it's very true to look at some leaders and think they must be robots. How are they doing this? How are they dealing with this? But the truth is no one is like that. No one is really like that.

And so to be able to bring more vulnerability in seems like it would make your team feel more comfortable being open, being honest and creating a better culture to work in. It's my hope. And because I do think if they see that I'm vulnerable and that I need to ask for help and I don't have all the answers, my hope is And because I do think if they see that I'm vulnerable and that I need to ask for help and I don't have all the answers, my hope is that it makes them feel like they can be the

same way and they will reach out and we'll grow together. That is my hope. Yeah. And when you're investing in other entrepreneurs, are there specific things that you see in really good leaders that you look for for those earlier stage to give you that insight of I think they will be good at what they're doing you mean investments or do you yeah and the person themselves early stage companies that I invest in I'm very much looking for the business fundamentals is there a true business opportunity here? And I'm looking for a passionate, dedicated leader more than I'm looking for operational leadership skills. And that's because I think when you're founding a company and you have an early day company, it's often

carried by the passion of the founder. They're bringing people in through sheer will and they're often underpaying and they're, they have to do all those things just to try to get going. And so people have to connect with them and they have to buy into what they're selling and they have to want to follow them, right? That's the most fundamental piece of leadership, right? Is people have to want to follow you. So if I were to look at that, I would say that's actually what I think about for early stage companies. And then I also like people that are self-aware and they understand where they're strong and where they're not. So maybe someone's a really great founder and that is a very specific skill set, as I described for

you before, but then they have to know when to put in an operator and are they going to be willing to do that? Are they business first in all cases, even when it means almost sidelining themselves? And so definitely those are attributes and things that I look for, but really early day, it's very business fundamentals meets passion. Yeah, that makes total sense. And so pivoting slightly onto outdoor voices, it's been so amazing to see you step into Outdoor Voices, especially, I think the brand has so many overlaps with Lunya. I know they're very fabric first. There's a lot of similarities, I think, in the brand values. What was it that made you even consider thinking through Outdoor Voices and investing and joining the board?

Well, I've been a fan of this brand for a long time. It launched similar timeframe to when Lunya did. And so I'd been following their journey, really loved what they're building, was someone who was wearing Outdoor Voices clothes when I worked out and really connect with the mission, working out like it is for you. It's very part of my daily routine. And if I go for a few days without it, I lose my head. So really believe in the importance of movement. And I reached out because I feel connected to a lot of female founders because we're not a huge group at this point. And so wanted to understand where things were at and wanted to reach out to Ty and understand what was going on there. And I also, like I said, connected with the brand and felt like maybe there was going to be some synergy there.

And I had no idea what it would be at that point. And when I got in, I learned a lot. And really what happened is I started the diligence process and started meeting the team and started getting a sense of how committed the team was to the mission, as well as how committed customers were to supporting the brand. And it blew me away. It's a company that has people dying to buy the product

and we basically can't keep anything in stock. And employees that when I was reading their feedback on the company, they were so bought into the mission. It just blew my mind. And I thought it was, it's so powerful to come from that place. And so when I started to look at what was breaking down in the company, it was very not always having the right people in the right place and not necessarily having the right process. It was a lot of operational gaps, but the brand was so strong and the value proposition was so strong, which are things that are hard to build, whereas operations are something that you can come in and really help with that. And anyway, that was a long-winded explanation, which was, I think I just got sucked into it

because I was passionate about it and saw the potential and really loved the brand and got to meet Ty. She and I were working pretty well together, and I thought there would be potential in that. And so anyway, so that's what got me in. And so now I'm in the interim, I'm operating the company, but beginning to really, we're doing big things over there. So very excited for what the future looks like at OB. I love that. And I think that's just really the definition of women supporting women. There has been, we don't need to get into it now because it's a full podcast in of itself but lots of media pieces coming out about female founders and like you say there isn't many of them and so when the media turns like that I think it can be really scary for some women to put

themselves out there yeah and I think we get to really step up and support each other so I just love that you did that and I think it really is just championing other women and we need to do more of that. So what I'm really curious about is how do you manage your days to be able to have your eye on so many, you must have so many different balls in the air with work. How do you structure or manage your days to be able to really keep a tight focus

on what's going on across the board? I work a lot. That's how I would say right now I work a lot. I have very strong teams and I have great leaders and I rely on them a lot. We've come to build partnerships over the years. And so certainly I actually feel far less overwhelmed in this moment than I did maybe three years ago running LUNIA because now I have really great mature teams that are helpful in leading these companies. So as it relates to scheduling, I start on central time. So I start at 7.30 in the morning and I go through Pacific Standard into 6 p.m. I'm working

very long days right now, but I don't perceive it to be a super long-term thing. I think for me, what I realized is that back to knowing what you're really good at, right? I have a lot of, so that catalyst in me, I'm really good at like creating change in organizations, but, and maybe in the macro vision sense, but over time we'll be hiring on more operators and we'll probably begin to be operating more in a true board capacity at both companies, and then probably as a true founder at LUNIA, which is more of like a vision keeper than I would say a day-to-day operator. Because as the company gets bigger, I think there's room for

someone to be in that capacity and having someone as the day-to-day operational leader. So I think it's a moment in time that my really hope is that we're in inflection point. Yeah, that makes sense. And do you have any hacks in where you might batch do certain things? Do you have certain times that you check your emails, anything like that, or calendar scheduling tips, anything like that? Yeah, so I use Calendly. I think that that has been a game changer for me because it allows me to combine the different calendars that I use and then send out a link for people to just schedule on their own on my calendar. And I block off periods of time. So for example, I do not take any meetings on Friday and I am absolutely rigid about it. My rationale is that for my own mental balance,

I need a day when I can focus on projects and things that require deep concentration. And when I'm on Zoom meeting, I'm back to back on Zoom meetings all day long. So if I don't schedule that time, there's no time for that deep thinking work. And so I actually just set it off and I don't book it. So I actually am a believer in do not book windows on the calendar. I do a fair amount of that because that's when I get work done. Otherwise what happens is I get booked all day from 7.30 in the morning until 6pm at night. And then I go to bed with 300 emails in my inbox, which creates so much anxiety. I don't sleep. And then I go to bed with 300 emails in my inbox, which creates so much anxiety. I don't sleep. And then I stay up all night doing emails.

And then I wake up and do the whole thing over again. So I have found I have to book time for emails or it doesn't really work that well. So that's one of my tips. So calendly and booking do not disturb time. And then my other one would be I book time for working out at noon every day. I literally book it in my calendar and my team knows that's not a pretend meeting. I think that's one of the tricky things too, is a lot of people put things in there, but then when they're super lenient about it,

no one really takes it seriously. But for me, that workout at noon, it's just essential. It's how I balance myself when I'm working monster days. So I have a question about this because I know a lot of people that work out at noon and I always have this question in my head and I wonder if other people do. How do we work the shower schedule? Do we shower in the morning and then again at noon or do we shower in the morning and then at the evening? How do we work it with the workouts? Because I always feel I need to wash my hair. It's like a whole situation. I've never been able to fit it in. So one, I've noticed I'm not a big sweater. Like I worked out with some of my friends and I think they were like, they sweat a lot more than I do. So that really helps me out. I actually shower at night because I get really

grossed out about going to bed. I'm obviously clearly very into the whole bed sleep situation. And for me, I want to walk, I want to be clean with well-moisturized with my luna sleep sets on. And that's how I want to fall asleep. So my showers happen in the evening. And it does mean that I'm a little grimy from noon until my evening shower. That's good to know. I was always wondering about the shower schedule with people. So I'm glad you're a noon person.

I can clear that up. Yes. I think I'm more of a sweater. Yeah. And I think that's like a whole different ballgame. So I totally get that where I'm like, I was working out with my friend the other day and she was just like, we were doing the same workout and mopping up after herself. And I was like, okay, I can see what's happening.

This would be a very different scene if I had a different sweat situation. I love how we're just talking about sweat. It's great. Business, sweat, all the things. Why not? And so I want to bring it back because I think your vote in bed campaign launched yesterday. Is that right? Yeah. Can you talk a little bit about what that is?

Yeah. So look, one of the things I love about having a company, and I think there's a lot of nuance to this, but is you do have a platform to have conversations. I think this is a delicate balance. I think we're seeing this now with so many social conversations coming up of late. I don't think every issue can be your company's issue. I think you got to know when it's something you can, a conversation that you feel is like appropriate for you as a company to have and how to show up for that conversation for sure. But in this case, this felt like a great opportunity. So the average voter results, I think the last numbers I looked at, which was from 1980 till 2016, on average, and I hope I get this right, the 19 to 24-year-old group, 46% of people show up to vote. And then for the 25 to 35 year old group, 58% of people show up to

vote. So here's the situation where you have a lot of very vocal people. I mean, we're seeing it now all over social media who aren't really showing up to vote. And this year is going to be quite different because obviously there's now there's that throw on some safety concerns on top of that. And I'm concerned that voter turnout will be lower than it's been before. But frankly, if we don't like how the country's running, or you do like how the country's running, and we carry this very important responsibility with us to show up and to cast our votes and to be heard. And I felt like, you know, what an incredible opportunity LUNIA has, and actually OV too, because they're also going to be doing some voter initiatives. But what an

incredible opportunity we have to help mobilize the younger people who might not be as comfortable showing up to vote by providing them with resources on where to sign up and letting them know that, hey, you vote from home. You don't have to feel like you have to put yourself into a compromising situation. And we can help stand for that. And so for us as a brand, we love doing everything from bed. So how cool that now we can change the world from our bed. And we're really excited about what that means and super fun. We wanted to take a shot at redoing the I voted sticker. And so we did some really fun stickers, which we're sending out to people. Go onto the website, you sign up and we're sending, I voted from bed or all these funny, cute stickers to try to help drive awareness and interest in showing up this year.

I love that. And I'm so grateful for you as well for using your platform to do that, because I think that when companies really, really take a stand like this, this is how we can really, really make change. So this, this is how we can really, really make change. So I'm really grateful that you're doing that. Thank you. Well, thank you so much for being on here. This has been amazing. I feel like I could ask you questions and pick your brain all day long. So I really, really appreciate this. Where can everyone find out about you, find Lunia, all the things? Yes. Okay. So I'm Ashley underscore Meryl on Instagram. That's where you can follow my journey. And then you can go to Lunia on Instagram, L-U-N-Y-A or Lago,

L-A-H-G-O, or check out Outdoor Voices, all on Instagram. And then I have another company we didn't get to today, but it's called The Deep. And it's going to be launching a card game very soon, which is super fun to spawn deeper conversations, which is pretty relevant in this climate, as well as the fact that we're all at home trying to find interesting things to talk about with someone we've been trapped at home with for maybe five months. So hopefully that'll be a really fun one too. And you can check them out at thedeep.life. I feel like we need to do another one and play the game on it. Oh, I would do that in a heartbeat. And I could bring on my co-founder

Kate for that. She's amazing. And that would be super fun. Okay, done. We'll set that up. I'll bring my co-founder Danielle. I'll reach out and we'll set it up. That'll be really fun. I love it. That'll be awesome. Amazing. Well, thank you so much for your time and your wisdom. I really appreciate you. And I just want to honor you as being such an inspirational woman who really take a stand. If you loved this episode, please subscribe, download a few more and please leave us a review. I really want to hear what you enjoyed, what your main takeaways were and I also want to know what you want to hear us talk about next. To say thanks for leaving us a review, we'll send you a copy of The Boss Babe 25.

The Boss Babe 25 is the 25 essential resources you need for personal and professional growth. It covers everything from our favorite rituals, books, and hacks. If you want a copy, just leave us a review, screenshot it, and send to podcastatbossbabe.com. We will then email you a copy ASAP. And since we love Instagram Instagram you can go to the hashtag the boss babe podcast and find our latest post and leave a question in the comments we love reading through the comments and we'll make sure to answer it on our next podcast