the bossbabe podcast - 174. How We Structure Hard Conversations + Stay In Alignment At Work

Episode Date: July 13, 2021

What do you do when you need to have a hard conversation with your partner? Or your best friend?  And what about hard conversations at work?  The reality is, hard conversations can feel anxiety-inducing + overwhelming. And if you don’t know how to have them, they can get off track – fast So BossBabe Co-Founders Natalie Ellis + Danielle Canty are sharing their formula for structuring hard conversations in a way that lets you stay in alignment – no matter what’s going on around you.  If you need to have a hard conversation this week, or just want to improve your communication in general – this week’s episode is for you! Listen now.  Links: https://bossbabe.com/sixfigures Follow:  BossBabe: @bossbabe.inc Natalie: @iamnatalie Danielle: @daniellecanty

Like there's certain things that I can't say to maybe members of my family or you know old friends potentially that I'm just like if I said this they just wouldn't get where I was coming from so I just do my work on my side but with you I can have been very much able to share some of my triggers as we've gone along on this journey. okay you might have realized we are halfway through 2021 which means it's really time to ramp up towards those massive audacious goals that I know every single one of you have. So I am running a completely free training and there's a seat with your name on it. I am running a training called how to turn your passion into a profitable six-figure business. Even if you're brand new to business or haven't actually thought of your business idea,

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I'm Danielle Canty, your co-host today, along with Miss, actually, Mrs. Natalie Ellis. Yeah, I'm the Miss. I'm the Mrs. You're the Miss now. I'm the Ms. Actually, darling, I'm the doctor. Oh yeah, you are. You never intro yourself with the doctor. Dr. Danielle Canty. Yeah, because I always feel like if someone is on a plane and they're like, hey, is there a doctor in the house? Because I actually do have it on my passport. And I'm like, a doctor of chiropractic?

I'm not going to be saving anyone's lives today on this plane. So I don't like to use it. I am so excited that you are back in LA this week. You get to stay with me. I'm so glad that I have my spare room. I feel like we live together at this point. I know. I'm spending a lot of time there.

I mean, it's very hot in Texas, I'm going to be honest. So I'm very, very happy to have my spare room in LA. It's helpful. Yeah, at this point, I'm like, okay, right now, I'm glad I've not moved because LA is like a calm 79.

I'm here for it. I thought you said it was freezing. It was yesterday, but today is beautiful. So, you know, I'm taking it. A boss babe is unapologetically ambitious and paves the way for herself and other women to rise, keep going and fighting on. She is on a mission to be her best self in all areas.

It's just believing in yourself. Confidently stepping outside her comfort zone to create her own vision of success. So you're here in LA, you're here for the next week or so. We have so many things scheduled. We've got some content, we've got some strategy sessions, all the things. And one thing I wanted to ask you, because I've noticed this, right? We have, and you have a lot of friends in LA, and I'm noticing everyone wants to see you and I'm curious how you juggle like that and how are you finding that great question so I actually

spoke about this a couple of weeks ago in an email if you don't get my CEO emails yet you guys just go on to buzzer.com and sign up I send out these personal emails every single Friday with just like what's on my heart anything that I've been through. I normally send like any videos I've been watching, products I'm loving, all of those things. And one thing that I spoke about in that email was exactly what you're asking. It was all about relationships. And if you remember a couple of weeks ago, I shared a TEDx talk with our team all around relationships and how important they were for your health and well-being and happiness I linked that in the email also but that TED talk just gave me a lot of perspective and made me get really intentional

about how I think about my relationships because I just know with COVID so many of us experienced a big change in our relationships in the past when I know I might have said yes to so many of us experienced a big change in our relationships. In the past, when I know I might have said yes to so many invitations out of like guilt, and I didn't really want to go, but I'd go anyway. During COVID, that wasn't really a thing. And so I feel like the people you gravitated towards in COVID, like that small group, they really are your best friends, or at least for me. And I know with our group group it just got tighter and tighter in COVID so that's one thing that I want to continue with me as we start to come out of this pandemic if we ever bloody come out this pandemic the delta variant I don't even know at

this point but if we ever get out I want to carry that saying no to anything that doesn't feel really aligned relationship or event wise. So that's the first thing. And the second thing is really investing in the relationships that I care about and not just being a passive friend. Because I know, you know, a lot of us want certain things out of our relationships, we want that connection, we want those certain tight knit friendships, and you don't get those from being a passive friend by just oh yeah we're close friends but we never talk on the phone we never are in contact we don't make that intentional time for each other it's like if you're in a real like an actual relationship

you're not just going to passively be in relationship because it wouldn't work so that's one thing that I've been working with and was there was three questions that I was asking myself after that TED talk and I was doing this kind of reflective work so I'll read them out if anyone's interested but there was three questions one was which relationships do I deeply care about and want to continue investing in and maybe even getting specific on like how I would invest in them the second one was which relationships could I be investing more time and energy into and I really thought about my family back home because it's been hard keeping that communication up during COVID not being able to see them being on different time zones and so I just really get to

make time and figure out how to like stay connected and make that work and then the third question is which relationships if any aren't serving me and a good old cold cutting never hurt anyone so really just reflecting and seeing if all the relationships that you have maybe personal professional I don't know you and I've gone through this are serving you yeah do you know what I think quarantine made relationships and broke them like I feel like I had, as people know. Well, it broke yours. A mixture of those things in my life.

Yeah, let's keep it real, shall we? Not all things survive quarantine. But yeah, like I just think it's really, it's really interesting as I'm in my 30s now. I actually, this is, I've always been a type of person who's had quality over quantity, if I'm, if I'm really frank, but I have this like little filter right now that I'm going through.

I'm like, if we are really good friends, I'm going to take you to the airport. So like my, my photo right now is like, you've got these like intellectual three questions that I'm like, what I dropped them off at the airport for their flight, or would I pick them up at a crazy hour for their flight? If my answer is yes'm like oh yeah we're really good friends oh does that mean I can just be like relying on the airport pickups and yeah and it was really funny the other day you and Stephen got uber and then I had this guilt around it I was like oh my god I forgot to offer them and I was like realized I was up at the same time I could have just taken you and you guys like oh yeah uber's here and I was like oh my god that's so funny I didn't know that yeah I would just take you to the airport I feel like

that's that's like the kind of thing that you know show you're showing up in service and my friendships I feel like the ones that I will show up in service for okay this is the way I look at friends it's like a glass of water that's like a glass of love that's full up and like you have to like top that glass up but you also get to drink from it too you know me and you i feel like i give you enough love water oh this sounds wrong this is this is kind of we're talking about like liquids there's lots of let's see where we're going with this okay well let's let's keep it let's keep it to water let's not call it anything other than plain old aqua true filtered water all right yeah so basically hang on i need to compose myself

basically yes you have a glass of water and Natalie Ellis, you fill that water glass up. And at times you give more to me and I give more to you. And that is the beauty of a deep friendship and relationship. And that's what I really, truly cherish. And what I'm saying is taking you to the airport is filling that glass up. There we go. We could have gone into some wild tangents there, but I'm hoping that we rescued it. After all all this is

the real behind the scenes so I want to have these conversations about what goes on in my head wait that's actually such a good way of seeing things and I'm just remembering like a clearing conversation that you and I had it was the easiest conversation ever that was just like oh I was kind of feeling this thing I want to be able to bring it and I think because our glass we work on keeping our glass full anytime there's really anything it's not a big issue because it's not like that glass is empty it's just like oh can we just chat about this and it's so drama free it's so easy it's so like honestly kind of fun just to be able to work through things in a way that's so productive and then the water is filled straight back up again so that's a very interesting thing I think probably I think relationships end and friendships end when someone takes more water than is left there's like nothing

left to give at that point and so I think that's really important and let's just like I just want to touch on quickly what is a clearing conversation because I feel like a lot of people might not understand what you're describing there I think a clearing conversation is whenever there is anything in an energy field in a relationship which doesn't feel super clean like oh I got my my feelings hurt when this comment was made or I was wondering you said this thing and I kind of I'm in story about it I took it the wrong way I just need to understand so a clearing conversation as I understand it is you just like open up that container to say hey this happened can we talk about it you talk about it and you clear it so that you're on at all times you are both just really clear on where you stand how you stand and it's a really good opportunity

to get to know the other person because sometimes you know we're all just walking about in our own stories and I might say something to you that I don't even think would be upsetting and it might hurt your feelings or vice versa whereas those conversations give us the chance to say this isn't your fault but I just got my feelings hurt and I want to let you know I'm looking for some reassurance or I'm looking for nothing I just want you to know so in future you're aware of it and it I think it clearing conversations make relationships stronger so much stronger and I think you know whether you're on the giving of that or the receiving of that it's all around putting yourself on in someone else's shoes in therapy I always got

taught you have to go to someone else's shoes in therapy I always got taught you have to go to someone else's side of the bridge so you know I've brought things to you before we shared in a podcast a couple of weeks ago and I came around by notepad and I was like hey I want to talk to you about this thing and like this time was more on your side and it was like you have to hold the space though so you know whenever and I think this is what again strengthens psychological safety and friendships and relationships is when you can go on that side. And the person that you're telling it to their job is to hold space for it and not react to it, not to receive it in a way it's detrimental, but it being like, okay, we all have our own experiences of a situation, your

personality creates your personal reality. And so I think it's just being able to emotionally be in a space where you can hold conversations and you can hold a space for people to allow them to feel safe and like you said then act on it and know it and be able to all move past it in a way and I think you know for me I learned a lot about that in quarantine you know we actually live together in quarantine etc and you I've really strengthened a lot of my relationships through the situations that I've been through and learned how to have challenging conversations and learn how to have clearing conversations and the way I look about friendships now is like when I was younger I think I thought friendships were just a given

they just existed whereas now I really see them as like a relationship that you get out what you put in. If you want a safe relationship, it's your job to provide some safety as well. If you're if you find yourself in bitchy relationships, then really asking yourself, what am I bringing to that table, which might actually be enhancing that versus, you know, feeling like a victim in all of that as well, which maybe you do when you're a teenager and younger. Let's take a quick pause to talk about my new favorite all-in-one platform, Kajabi. You know I've been singing their praises lately because they have helped our business run so much smoother and with way less complexity, which I love. Not to mention our team couldn't be happier because now everything is in one place. So it makes collecting data, creating pages, collecting payment, all the things so much simpler.

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I love the direction that this is going. And just a couple of things that I think make these conversations really productive. The first one is consent. I think it's really important to have consent on both sides to have the conversation because if one person isn't in a space to hold space for the person or maybe the person coming with the issue is unprocessed and is going to project a ton it's just not going to be a great conversation whereas if you have consent hey I really want to have a clearing conversation or I think this would be supportive here's the time that we're going to do it and then again when you're going into

that conversation is now still a good time are we okay having this which I think we did really really well in that situation and you just said something that I wrote down like if you're looking for safety in your relationships it's really important to provide safety and one thing that I always try and do in clearing conversations say I'm the one bringing like hey this happened and I felt a certain way if I'm the one bringing something up I always like to create the safety before I go into it so it might look different for different relationships but let's just say for example if we were having one I would generally start it with I love you so much I care about our relationship and the thing that I'm about to bring to you it didn't break my trust I don't have any story about it. I just have my feelings hurt and I want to bring it up.

And I think what that does is it puts the other person, it shows the other person they don't need to be on the defensive. It's like, okay, I can choose how I'm going to respond to this. This person just wants to be heard and wants to get something off their chest. And it's something that Stephen and I do a lot in our conversations.

And it just just it puts the person listening in a much easier conversation like I know if he approaches me or you approach me in that kind of way I'm like okay yeah I just I want to listen in here and it's nice to have that yeah totally and I'm just realizing like how far we've come in our relationship and our friendship and in some ways it's such a shame that you don't learn these skill sets from like school and infancy and it's something that we've actually gone out of our way to develop but you're really right and you know just kind of putting exclamation mark on something you just said there which was you know asking for permission because if I think about recently I've actually said no twice to some like different people having

conversations with me at certain times because I'm not clean and I think that's the other thing like you said to me hey can I have this conversation but if I wasn't in a headspace to hear you or I knew I was going to be on the defensive because I had my own things going on on my own stories about something else you actually gave me permission to say hey no can we do it another day I'm not ready and if I think around again the heated conversation that we had that we shared about on the podcast and actually happened like over a year ago now it was that same place was like you know I'm not ready to talk yet I need to have processed my side and I think that's a skill set that a lot of people, they need, like you need, you want to understand where you are at in the process. And it's not good to come to a conversation if you are not willing to take responsibility

for your own feelings, because then the other person is going to be on the defensive. Like you didn't, you actually came to me, what, five days a week later a week later it's been a week yeah it's been a week and you were like hey I want to talk to you about this thing but you'd already processed your side so it wasn't like you like you said you created that safety before even coming into it because you're like hey I'm I love you these are things x y and z and then I was also far enough removed from the situation that I was like okay like I can totally hold space for that I can totally hear that and I can totally take responsibility from my side and I love you too and here we are and I think that that is a skill set whether you

have a business relationship whether you have a marriage whether you have a friendship around being knowing when to bring things up and when not to bring things up and also as a person who sometimes people might come to being able to say like hey no I need a little bit more time on my side yeah oh my god so many things that you said there one of them and a boundary for me which is one that you and I have both put in place recently a boundary for me is I will not have close relationships with people that are unable to take personal responsibility. It just doesn't work for me. It doesn't make me feel very safe. And like it, like we were talking about the beginning, you know, you and I have

enough friendships or relationships. We're not out there looking to just take as many as possible. And so it's nice to be really selective and know your boundaries of what you're looking for in a relationship and what you're not. And, and in my close relationships, whether they are, you know, friendships or work relationships, for me, I have to of the street clean and they can do that. And I'll just share my process too, because there's probably a few people wondering like what that even means. So just in the example that Danielle and I are speaking about specifically. So for me, I left an entire week before bringing it up. And the reason that I wanted to go away and process in the way that I take responsibility is I remember

one thing. And it often is that the, the thing that happened is not about the thing that happened. And there's always a place that it started because, and here's an example, right? You could have two people and I could say the exact same thing to these two people. One person might get really upset by it the other person would not even think twice about it it's just happy merry on their way and so it's less about what was said and more about how it was perceived or how that person reacted and so then if you dive into the person that felt a certain way chances are they had you know a negative experience in childhood they had a previous experience that opened up a wound and you saying that triggered that wound of theirs.

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And go get yourself some tube late. I'm going to give a really good example for that so that people can ground this. So let's say I said to you, hey, Natalie, do you want to go to dinner on Wednesday night? Right? And you were like, no, I don you want to go to dinner on Wednesday night? Right? And you were like, no, I don't want to go to dinner. I'm tired. So if I had a wound around being rejected and you saying no, and I'm sharing this one because I did way back when, right?

When we first were together, like I spoke about this before, I used to find like no is a really hard word to hear. I would be like, oh my my goodness she doesn't want to spend time with me she doesn't enjoy my company like she doesn't want to be my friend anymore like I'm so upset that she doesn't want to go for dinner for me and actually another person or me now would receive that to be like no like she doesn't want to go and that means like oh she doesn't want to go because she's tired she's had a busy week it's on her like she's a part introvert part extrovert and she just needs her own time clean and so that's like I think it's just allowing this exact same words and you

can see like all the story is on my side it's not on Natalie's side right from the get-go and I think that can happen in so many different relationships and exactly what you're saying about you came to me um you know like said the thing hey this is how I interpret it at that point and now I also interpret it this way or whatever you know and I think just allowing people those and the same thing happens with tone right you know if you write something a text it can be perceived in an angry tone or a nice tone you just don't know being able to see multiple stories it's a skill set that I think helps overall communication if you can understand that other people might have a different story to you and to be accepting of that I think that's

when you can truly start working with people better um having closer relationships with people having less like like stress on your side because now you're not so responsible for other people's feelings and your own and so yeah I mean we've gone in a full side tangent about this relationship thing but I think for you and I like relationships are so important like having a business together has really really I think you know made us go on a journey of learning more and more about ourselves and more more not necessarily about each other but how to interact with someone that you can't like we have like we have like a marriage without the sex right so we do like you can't you can't just hug and then it'd be okay so the only way we can get

back to a good place is through our words so it's like makes you have to hone that skill so well yeah and what I think is one of the most incredible things about really close relationships is the healing you can do in them so just for example you're taught let's just use your no example because you already said it, right? So in that moment, you have two options. You can come to me if you trust me and say, hey, I have a big wound around being rejected or hearing the word no. I would love it if you could not do that. If you could use a different word or if you could say it a different way, if you could support in that. And then I might be able to really support in healing that wound so instead of you know no I don't want to go for dinner oh it's actually not that I don't want to go for dinner with you this week but I'm just feeling

really really tired why don't we reschedule for another time versus like that's an easy fix for someone to do or the other option is not to say anything and to work on it in your own way and I think there's no right or wrong way. And the beauty of having really close relationships like you and I have is we constantly come to each other with like, here's something that I've because by the way, every single one of us is always discovering a new thing. There's always something we're never finished. Yeah, we're never finished. So we have the kind of relationship with us and with friends where we can say hey this is something that I'm working through so I'm wondering if you could support me with xyz and it actually helps heal and close those loops and it's really like fulfilling to

be able to do that and have that in friendship or relationships yeah totally and I think actually I'm just actually thinking back to how much we have grown and, you know, finding that I just think you need to find people though, who are like minded and have a growth mindset. I think the challenge comes when and you know how you're saying you can either have that conversation, or you can't, I do think that depends on whether that other person's willing to do the work as well. Like, because certain things that I can't say to maybe members of my family or you know old friends potentially that I'm just like if I said this they just wouldn't get where I was coming from so I just do my work on my side but with you I can have been very much able to share some of my triggers as we've gone along on this journey and I remember we I wasn't

even living in LA we were walking in Beverly Hills at that time when we were having that conversation. I was like, hey, when you say no, sometimes it really triggers me. And I don't, I know it's on me, but I don't know how to process this on my own right now. So could you help me? And you were like, yeah, I'll totally try and say no a little bit less while she worked through this.

And now I don't give a shit whether you say no or not. No, you couldn't care less. But I did find a lot of alternative words. You did for a while. You were great. And in fact, you probably just added those into your vocabulary because now I think about it actually she really does still like use a lot of those terms yeah and that's the thing like it's both sided so for me it was like a great like and I'm an enneagram 8 I feel like our

favorite word is no and so to learn other ways of communicating I'm like great this is such a like growth moment for me and a chance to do something differently but like so I just love that and yeah and like you're saying it's the growth mindset and it's their willingness to take responsibility and I think the biggest indicator of someone that's not willing to take responsibility is if they blame other people to you so if you're listening to them and they're always blaming someone else we know those people it's always someone else's fault it's you know the same thing happening to them over and over if you're hearing that then that's a red flag because if you ever get into a conflict with

them chances are it's going to be your fault according to them also i want to use this as a little segue to move into the next piece i want to talk about which is about alignment you posted a quote on your instagram the other day which I absolutely love do you want to read it out yeah so I didn't come up with it I know I've heard it somewhere but I didn't know where and the quote was when things change inside you things change around you and I was talking all about a difficult decision that we made and I think put off for a long time. And what was really interesting that as soon as it was made, a weight was lifted. I'll just speak from the eye, a weight lifted from my shoulders. And I felt like, wow, things are falling into place. And it's really a lesson of

alignment being everything. And when you try and make progress from a place of non-alignment, you have a lot of challenges. Whereas when you listen to your gut from a place of non-alignment you get you have a lot of challenges whereas when you listen to your gut maybe there's no data to back it up maybe there is but when you listen to your gut and you do the things that are in alignment everything gets easier and it's a hard one sometimes it's so hard listening to your gut I really feel like being able to listen to your gut is such a trust in yourself and I've had periods in my life where I found that really easy and then other periods where I've just like ignored it so much and and then I get confused I'm like what even is my gut telling me right now

like I don't know it just feels anxious right now like and that's a red flag can I just put in and say I'm just gonna put in and say there was something that you and I both had a good feeling about for a long time and neither of us were willing to go there because it was scary and the amount of anxiety that manifested in both of our guts and digestive system was our body just throwing red flag red flag red flag at us and it took a lot and and just I want to share this because I there's probably a lot of people listening that might think we find business easier we find making hard decisions easy and I just want to share we don't we find it just as hard no matter how long you've been in business or how many decisions you've had to make. It took a lot for you and I to finally, and it was us being in person and actually sitting down, checking in with each other and saying, what is our gut telling us?

Cause this isn't healthy. Yeah, completely. And I think, you know, we've had those moments so many times, even just like, even recently we were, Hey, I came to you know we're like doing this new business and really excited and I came to you I was like something's just not feeling right with this part of it like I mean I can't put my finger on it and it it took me weeks though to come and talk to you about it I was like something's just like I'm holding back because something's not feeling right and then as soon as we like pivoted and made that shift things just started falling into place I was like oh wow um but I don't know there's there's

something very I think women have this gift with intuition and lots of us do turn it off but when you when you really check in with that and listen to it that's when so many that you're saying like the universe almost conspires with you it's like everything just like starts falling into place also i'm just i always giggle about this when i mention the universe because i was like the least woo-woo person ever now i'm in la i'm like oh yes the universe law of attraction all of these things oh my god you got so converted i did i did but it's true i'm like remember when you when you would think when you thought psychedelics were like you remember what you thought about them

oh my god people talk about drugs in la that was so funny so awful even cbd i was like cbd oh my god i know and that like obviously cannabis is legal in the in california like you walk down the street and there's like guys smoking it and like it's in the u.s as a whole have like i don't think every state is oh it's not i mean listen don't listen to the british ones about this but i do think it's it's pretty wide what you can still i don't even know we shouldn't even get into it because we're gonna sound like but what i was gonna say is like even cbd is like you know there's no thc in it or anything and that's legal i think across every single state and in the UK as well. But it's just so interesting how you are programmed to think like, you know, I was like, oh my

goodness, marijuana, CBD is the same thing. Like what? And it's just interesting. I always challenge everyone listening to this podcast, like really never tire of asking yourself questions why you believe something because I think that's the biggest thing you can do as an entrepreneur but why but why why am I doing this but why do I believe this but why do I think this is the only way but why do I think like I'm in this position right now because when you start asking yourself why it opens up new doors it opens up new gates

it opens up new ways of thinking and that's how you make the growth that's how you get the pivots that's how you change your life because you you don't just take for granted what everyone everyone else's belief systems you start creating your own and it also is really freeing of letting go what other people think like i used to be so uptight about what people would think like so uptight you guys like Natalie's laughing because she says it's true like I was like so I don't want people to think this way about me I don't want people to think um that way about me and when I stopped having all and let me just say to you like guys a lot of time and we'll probably do another podcast on this but

a lot of those beliefs I put myself in a box like I put myself in a prison of thinking that people would think differently around me if I did x y and z or if I said x y and z no one actually like I put myself in that box I think when you start realizing that and you start questioning things like okay well you know people might think I'm woo woo if I start to know the universe I don't give a shit anymore I'm like this shit works for me let's do this you know I think that's very very free I didn't even know what tangent I was on I'm like this shit works for me let's do this you know I think that's very very free I didn't even know what tangent I was on I feel like this podcast I'm just taking it all kinds of all kinds of routes yeah one thing that I say about myself is that I have strong opinions but they're loosely held I find it really hard to like sit on the fence I'm like a yes or no kind

of person I have very strong opinions but having them loosely held is like I'm always willing to have my mind changed on something I'm always willing to be open and I think that's something that I've really picked up from Stephen I feel like he's so like that he he just everything is loosely held he's like change your mind challenge me I'm like oh my god I'm not there yet but um it's a nice perspective to have to be be okay with having your mind changed on something yeah and how dropping the ego some people won't change their minds because it's ego driven like let go that's a good one like let yeah let go and be open best way to live your life I like yeah we're here for being in alignment yeah alignment everywhere well listen pleasure doing podcasts with you I know this was fun

I enjoyed this it's kind of been like a therapy session yeah it has thanks for that appreciate it Well, listen, pleasure doing podcasts with you. I know, this was fun. I enjoyed this. It's kind of been like a therapy session. Yeah, it has. Thanks for that. Appreciate it. So you guys, if you enjoyed this kind of off the cuff, ramble, unplanned, yeah, shit show,

let us know, you know, take a screenshot, share it, give us your feedback, drop in our DMs, leave a review, all the things that's really helpful for us to know uh we're starting to to do a lot more of these solos we want to you know share even more behind the scenes we want to get a little bit more real with you um so so give us feedback it's really helpful Thank you.