the bossbabe podcast - 194. How To Pitch, Negotiate & Get PAID By Brands

Episode Date: November 23, 2021

Imagine getting paid to share your favorite products with the online community you’ve already built. Does that sound like a dream come true? Well, what if we told you that can be your reality right now...regardless of your audience size on social media. BossBabe’s co-founder, Danielle Canty, is going to show you how to unlock your power as a micro influencer – starting right now. From leading with value and initiating a collaboration to honing in on the USPs that make you stand out from the crowd. This is THE blueprint for getting your favorite brands to pay you for creating content.  Plus, we’re giving you access to the EXACT press kit we use internally at BossBabe so you can pitch to prospective partners without all the stress.  If you’re ready to elevate your influence as an expert, build trust with brands and make your audience your financial asset, this is the episode for you. Listen now!  Highlights: What you can do right now to get paid by your favorite brands How to lead with value when you approach your favorite brands The secret to negotiating your worth in a pitch A peek into the perfect press kit + how to create your own The content strategies to boost engagement  Why creating brand flow keeps you financially flexible What you can do right now build better relationships with brands Links: BossBabe’s Black Friday, Cyber Monday - Be the first to get early access to our Black Friday, Cyber Monday offer Lunya: Use code “FOR-BOSSBABES”  Episode 187: Level Up Your Life, Your Worth + Your Bank Balance with Mel Robbins  Episode 148: From Family Start Up To 9 Figure Business with Mona Kattan Episode 190: From Zero to Over Three Million - Here’s How We Did It Influencer School Our 12-week, guided coaching and certification program designed to help you gain full clarity on your personal brand, learn how to create easy, consistent content, build an audience of engaged followers and create a full-time income from social media. Influencer School Reviews Follow: BossBabe: @bossbabe.inc Natalie Ellis: @iamnatalie Danielle Canty: @daniellecanty

They're pushing a position of power emotionally to feel like, you know what, this is what I think it's worth to be able to do this. And because when you come from that angle of being like, you know what, I'm really good at this, I'm confident in what I'm proposing, it also means that the brand will pick up on that. And second of all, you'll feel like, actually, you know what, I'm able to walk away from this. Welcome to the Boss Babe podcast, the place where we share with you the real behind the scenes of building successful businesses, achieving peak performance, and learning how to balance it all.

I'm Natalie Ellis, and this week I'm joined by Danielle. So one of the big questions that we're always getting asked is, how do I collaborate with brands? Either as an influencer, how do you actually set up successful brand partnerships? Or if you're a brand, how can you successfully collaborate with other influencers? So at Boss Babe, we've been doing brand and influencer partnerships for a really long time. And we've actually generated multiple seven figures from our brand partnerships. We've also done some huge brand activations with some of the biggest companies in the world. So we have quite a lot of insider knowledge when it comes to brand partnerships. So what we wanted to do is put together this

episode where we really dive in. It's basically like a mini masterclass. So if you're listening while driving or you're chilling in the bath, you're probably going to be scrambling to write some notes down. But it's basically a mini masterclass on how to successfully execute brand partnerships. And we go into detail. So I think you're going to absolutely love it. And before you dive in, I also want to remind you that if you guys leave us a review, it really, really helps us get the podcast into the hands of more women who could really use it. So if you could leave us a five-star review, of course, if you could leave us one, it would mean the world. Let's dive in. Hey, Danielle, I'm excited to grill you. One thing that I really want us to focus on in this episode is brand partnerships and brand deals because

we've actually had a lot of inbound. People have been seeing that we've been working with a ton more of really cool brands that we love and asking how to get started. And so I want to talk about that whole process. Firstly, though, I do want to address the misconception that you need a massive audience to be able to work with brands. Can you talk a little bit about that? How big do you think an audience needs to be to get started? This is so relevant right now because the industry is really moving towards micro-influencers. So basically, there's been a challenge for a while as social media has really taken off that brands are really struggling. So big brands are really struggling to connect with audiences.

So we saw then that they were utilizing, you know, to get know, like, and trust. They utilize other people's audiences. And there's really big movement into micro-influencers. And what a micro-influencer is, is someone with a small amount of following actually can be less than 10,000, but that audience that they have is really engaged. They're really connected and they're there for a reason. And I think this is actually really, really powerful right now. As we've grown, we've kind of, at the beginning when Facebook was really growing, there was like all about the numbers, like who was there. But over the last few years, brands have started realizing it's more about vertical audiences and vertical communities. And what I mean by that is people are really

wanting to connect with influencers or even brands sometimes that are similar and communities of like-minded people. So with Boss Babe, we have a vertical community of ambitious women who want to make more money, who want to be unapologetically in doing so. We are not a horizontal brand of women. Does that make sense? Yeah, that makes sense. So it means that brands are looking out for vertical communities and micro-influencers have a lot of those. They tend to be followed for various themes that they're posting about,

whether it be about... Even food used to be classed as a vertical, but now it's actually a horizontal because it's so vast. food used to be classed as a vertical but now it's actually horizontal because it's so vast a vertical would be one like vegan so people are coming for certain things or keto or paleo so right now brands are reaching out to a lot of people to tap into that audience and get connected with them because they can see the power of doing business d2c which is direct to consumer. Love it.

Yeah. Okay, so people are listening. They're like, okay, I actually do have an audience that would be classed as a vertical. What is the best reach out process? I know for me, my preference is working with brands who I already use. And so I tend to tag them in my posts and start that conversation

organically. And I know you're also really good at being able to just see a brand that you really want to work with and go directly after it. So can you talk about the different reach out processes and how you go about it? Okay. So my number one tip is always to lead with value. And I think you just said something there right away. Like you initially will often use a product and then that's why you'll reach out. So consider, even if you just have a hundred followers or 200 followers, consider about if you are using a brand that you are enjoying, lead with value with that, tag them in it, share with your followers that you're utilizing, that you're loving it. One, because your followers will actually really love it and they find that valuable. And then two, you're opening up conversation with a brand. People can see

through false advertising. So I think it's very, very hard to advertise a product that you don't genuinely love. I think it's actually really not good for your soul. It doesn't feel good to be telling other people to use something that you don't actually like. So finding a product, whether it's like a makeup, a lipstick, even something in the kitchen, like just post around that, make some engaging content around it, give value to your audience and tag the brand. Then from there, I would do two things. I would gather the insights for that brand. So go and look at your insights. Did people enjoy it? Were they clicking on the links? Were they swiping up? If you have that feature, like what were they doing with it? How did they like a post and really engage with it that way? So that when you reach

out to the brand, you can not only show that you start, you enjoy them from an authentic place, but you actually can say, hey, my followers were really interested in this. So therefore, I actually think there could be an opportunity here. Also, when you're first working with brands, be open to not being paid, but having an affiliate link. So it's actually really low risk for brands to give you an affiliate link. And what an affiliate link is, it's a link that's tracked that often gives your audience a discount and you get paid for it. So it might be your audience might get 15% off their orders. And as the person posting it, you might get a 50% kickback or a 30% kickback,

whatever that is. So you're actually getting paid indirectly. Then it's no risk for the brand because they're not having to pay you on sales that they don't have. They're only paying you on sales that they do have. And then build relationships, accept that it takes time. So you might start off with that affiliate piece. Then they might actually see that traction that you're gaining and then want to say, hey, we would like you to post a few more times or feature you across our other platforms. I love that so much. And I think the idea of experimenting with affiliate links is so incredibly important because you need to know if your audience is a buying audience. Yes.

Like if you're using affiliate links and no one's buying, then you're going to feel really out of integrity going to a brand saying, pay me for this post when you know historically no one is buying. So I really, really love starting with that. That's such a good tip. So let's say you've done that, you've reached out to the brand

and you're starting to approach the point of negotiation. Perhaps you're hopping on a call. How would you approach negotiation? So there's two things in any negotiation, I think as well. One, market research. You need to know what are the costs that are associated. So how many followers you get, how much engagement you get, like, cause whether it's on social or maybe you have a podcast, like you need to know the metrics involved of like how much that is worth. Because if you're throwing out numbers that are completely unrealistic, you're going to look foolish. And you want to be coming to that, like to close a deal. You can't like, you know, be unrealistic that you're stopping it before it's even got going. So one, really just know your numbers to start with. And then second of all, I really think that competence makes confidence.

So when you know, when you've been following what your audience like, you know that they're engaging in certain products, you know that they're swiping up and you're getting those affiliate things, it puts you in a position of power emotionally to feel like, you know what, this is what I think it's worth to be able to do this. And always, because when you come from that angle of being like, you know what, I'm really good at this, I'm confident in what I'm proposing. It also means that, you know, the brand will pick up on that. And second of all, you'll feel like, actually, do you know what? I'm able to walk away from this. The art to negotiation is always being able to walk away if it's not a good fit as well. If it isn't able, if you aren't able to be like, oh, do you know

what? This isn't quite in the price bracket that I'm going to be able to work with. Being able to walk okay is being able to walk at that point is good. So my other piece of advice now is make sure you have good deal flow. So if you are going after brands, you're like, right, I really want to start monetizing my following or my podcast or whatever that is via brands, have good deal flow so that you're not always resting on one deal at a time and you're able to walk away if they're not able to meet the industry standards of pricing or the pricing that you request. I love that. Just that idea of like surrender and not being so attached to the outcome. Like I need this brand deal so bad.

Yeah. And also if you're in a position where you do need it, you are going to have to know that comes with a discount. So if you need to lock in the deal, fine, discount below market rates because you need that money. Like accept the position and where you're at and know that as you work through it and as you grow your followings or your reputation or the metrics that you can present, know that those prices will increase. So don't try and run before you can walk either. There's got to be like a give and take.

Okay, so then speaking of presenting metrics, let's talk about the idea of having like a press kit, something where you have everything together. And then would you, so we'll talk a little bit about what that is. And then I'm curious, would you recommend having packages already put together for brands? Or would you do that after you've already chatted with the brand? Okay, so let's talk about press kits first or media kits

or whatever you want to call them. So basically, when you're doing your first reach out, and I would always try and do this via the channel that you want to promote on because I think that's really important initially, like trying to get emails for accounts is really difficult. So just DM them and see if there's anyone I can talk about it. Let's take a quick pause to talk about my new favorite all-in-one platform, Kajabi. You know I've been singing their praises lately because they have helped our business run so much smoother and with way less complexity, which I love. Not to mention our team couldn't be happier because now everything is in one place, so it makes collecting data, creating pages, collecting payment, all the things so much simpler. One of our mottos at Boss Babe is simplify to amplify and Kajabi has really helped us do that

this year. So of course I needed to share it here with you. It's the perfect time of year to do a bit of spring cleaning in your business, you know, get rid of the complexity and instead really focus on getting organized and making things as smooth as possible. I definitely recommend Kajabi to all of my clients and students. So if you're listening and haven't checked out Kajabi yet, now is the perfect time to do so because they are offering Boss Babe listeners a 30-day free trial. Go to kajabi.com slash boss babe to claim your 30-day free trial. That's kajabi.com slash boss babe.

Then when you send your media kit through via email, I would never do that on Instagram or anything because you want formal communications you want your own follow-up period because the key is in the follow-up to you guys like i always think business happens in the follow-up you're leaving money on the table if you're not following up so you're sending a media kit and what we have in ours and i always recommend people to have in theirs is first of first of all like your mission statement or like what your brand stands for, like a really good synopsis, like this is who I am. This is what this brand is about. Or even if it's a personal brand, like give them everything they need to fully understand you

right from the get go. Then share about your audience, like share who is the niche, who's following you. Like we have lots of details on our types of followers. Also Instagram gives you these insights. You can look, where is your audience located? What age are they? What gender are they? All these pieces should be enclosed in that. And then your numbers. So sharing with them, I have this many followers on Instagram. This is my average engagement. Don't be fooled. Brands are not stupid. They know if you've bought followers or done any of these things by your engagement. Don't be fooled. Brands are not stupid. They know if you've bought followers or done any of these things by your engagement. So they're asking engagement metrics and then also start really seeing reels. So if we're talking about Instagram specifically, reels,

stories, and posts are all very different nowadays. So really putting all of those metrics together is really powerful and important. And let's say you were doing something that you had another medium, an email list or a podcast, putting those metrics on there too. So, and which is why I'll come to this in a second, but you're showing them that it's not just Instagram that you're on because we'll talk about this in the customer journey. So give them all this information upfront. Don't lie about it. Don't hide about it. Let them know. And then you can also share pricings at that point if you want to.

We're all about efficiency. And for us to keep pricing back is just inefficient. Like I want to know if brands have the budget. Great, let's talk. But if they don't, I want to give them a realistic expectation of what pricing they can expect from us. In the early stages, if you're just starting, you might want to be a bit more cagey with it. But if you're established, then I would be very upfront with these. So my fellow entrepreneurs are going to know what I mean when I say when you're in launch mode in your business, it is go, go, go completely nonstop all

day long. And I also feel like people who are in careers and businesses, when you have those deadlines, you know, you have to get to them. It's the same kind of thing. So as we've been working on influencer school over the past month or so, I have been the type of person who kind of falls out of bed and is immediately checking Slack, listening to Voxer messages, hopping on calls to put out fires, like all the things, particularly when I'm in Pacific time and everyone else is ahead of me. So I have to tell you, one of my saving graces to this is, you know, somewhat making me feel like I still have my life together. And that is Lunya. Even on the most hectic days when I don't even make it out of my Lunya sleep suit, I feel just that little bit more glamorous and, you know, put together regardless because their sets are so cute, you guys. Their joggers are so cozy. The washable

silk shirts are Zoom approved, I can tell you that. And it is the best clothing that you could possibly ask for if you're having a, let's say, messy burn get shit done day. You guys know the type of days that I mean. And you're just kind of like, oh my goodness, I don't want to be in a giant university t-shirt or ripped sweatpants. I want to be feeling a little bit more put together. Lunya are your clothes for that. So if you know you're going to be busier than ever heading into Q4, I strongly recommend picking up some pieces from Nanya. It can be a little gift to yourself to stay motivated and incorporate some amount of self-care, shall we say, when it feels like the world may not slow down for you.

So if that sounds like a dream to you, you can go to the link in the show notes and use code 4-BOSSBABES at checkout for our exclusive discount. You'll be thanking me when the 9am Zoom calls roll out and you've been putting out fires on warning, I promise you. And with that, let's get back to the episode. And then with regards to packages, the reason I think packages are really important is nowadays, a consumer needs to see a advertisement or a placement or whatever it is, a brand around 11 to 23 times is where it is at now. It used to be a seven. Now people are saying 11 to 23, which is actually a huge range. But this is why I always favor packages because if I post once about something, it's not really going to get traction. People might watch it once, it might get some swipe

ups, it might get some engagement, but people aren't really going to fully register it. Whereas if I keep posting about it in several ways, it's going to get more people's interest. It's going to get people listening a little bit more. It's going to also appear, which it is, because you're working with brands that you know and trust anyway, it's going to appear more authentic as well. And on top of that, I would always do packages across different mediums if you have them. So we always talk around our rentals and our real estate.

So we'll talk about rentals, like your renting space on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok platforms that you don't own. But we always recommend that you're building real estate, which is your email addresses, podcast weekly, because we own that. So whatever those types are, and then do it across multiple platforms. So people are not just seeing you post about this in one section. They're like, oh, actually, I listened to the podcast and they spoke about it there. That's also really important for the customer journey because when anyone is buying something, they like to be aware of it and then they like to be able to do

their research on it as well. So hearing you mention it in multiple different places over multiple different times really encourages that trust factor and then you'll have more confidence or the audience will have more confidence in swiping up or engaging with it or buying with it. Okay, so then the next thing that I want to get into because we've talked about pricing. One thing that you've always, always been good at is charging your worth. Like you've definitely taught me a few things

on that subject. You're very, very good at seeing what you're worth and going in there and saying that number. Whereas that's definitely been a journey for me. I've been a bit nervous to do that. How did you get so confident at being able to charge your worth? And like, how do you prep for like going into those conversations where you're going to come out with these numbers? Okay. So I don't think it's easy. And I do think it's something that I have worked on. So it's something that I've had to do. I mean, Mel Robbins, we had her on the podcast, and it was an amazing podcast. And she used to talk about this, like the five method. It was

just like count down from five, and then you're going to do it. So five, four, three, two, one, you have to say it. And honestly, that's how I started. So I would literally give myself like, okay, five, four, three, two, one, just say it. And that was really important. But the way I actually built the confidence and that did come down to that competence piece. You only know your worth if you have studied something, if you are good at it, if you've practiced over and over again, like what we first started charging for sponsorships and partnerships in the podcast was way, way, way lower because we hadn't proven our competency. We hadn't proven the downloads and that grew. And I think it's just, it's really about acknowledging where you're at and being able to see that journey around, okay, do you know what?

I have been doing this for a number of years now. I also know what other people are charging. So that research thing coming into place as well. You do look foolish if you are not, you don't know your numbers. Like if you haven't, if you are pulling numbers out of thin air, you look stupid. You really do. So just know those pieces and then just really recognizing the value you bring. If you want to write down a list of things that's like, do you know what? This is what I bring to the table. I can show up with these things at this time and I know it's going to impact. One thing I would say is the art of negotiations is always finding the win-win. If either party are losing, it is not a partnership

worth pursuing. And that goes at any point, whether you're talking about business partnerships and brand partnerships and deals, or just generally working with people, like you always have to find the win-win. And if you can't find the win-win, it's unlikely that this partnership is worth doing in the first place. So you have to really recognize, well, hang on a minute, what are they bringing to the table? What am I bringing to the table? And then knowing that you're going to be able to meet in the middle and finding that line, be prepared. And this is one other thing as well, I would say, don't give your bottom offer straight away. Always know that people like go in with a higher offer and be able to come down

or have bonuses that you can add on because expect them to do the same. Do you think that you risk putting brands off if you go in too high? Yes, I do. Okay. One, if you are really nervous and you don't know how to approach this,

do this thing. Ask them, hey, what's your budget? And I can see what I can do for that. Okay. And then what I would always do is put some pieces together for them, like a combination, like I said, over various platforms, if you can, and say, this is what we can do for that price. However, I'm also going to throw in these bonuses for you.

Okay. So, you know, if you really want to secure that deal, don't necessarily come down in what you're going to charge, throw in some extra things. So that's how we'll get people over the line. Think around like, what are those things that are going to, you know, really make people feel confident with moving towards it. And also don't work with brands if

you're also not prepared to go out of your way if you're not getting results either, you know? So if you're also not seeing results for them, be fair with what you promise. Like, because it's very easy to, it takes a long time to build a reputation, but it's very easy and quick to burn a reputation. So just remember that, like, you know, don't over promise. It's always better to over deliver so that they work with you again. That's what happens with us. We have a lot of partners which work with us continuously because we've over-delivered. And I would always encourage you to try and commit that angle. I would rather you charge your worth and throw in some extra bonuses, then over-deliver again so that they want to do more partnerships with you in the future.

Yeah, and it feels so much more in integrity too when you're able to show up, give your numbers and know, listen, these are my numbers and I deliver. I know that you'll get results. And guess what? You're going to feel competent and then you're going to get more confident, which means then when you go into other deals again,

you're like, woohoo, great. I'm going for it. I love that. And I think it really just applies to pricing across the board. Whenever you're setting your price, okay, well, what, great. I'm going for it. I love that. And I think it really just applies to pricing across the board. Whenever you're setting your price, okay, well, what are the results I'm getting? What is the ROI on this?

Does it make sense for me to charge this? Am I comfortable with charging this? I think it, yeah, it applies to so many different things. So speaking of turning brands off, is there anything else you've noticed that you think could turn brands off of your brand? Yeah, so I think could turn brands off of your brand? Yeah. So I think what turns brands off is what turns your audience off, which is working with companies

that you don't truly love. Like you have to be prepared to walk away from brands that are not in alignment with who you are and who your audience is. So for example, we got approached by a waist trainer company recently. They wanted to offer a significant amount of money. And I was like, no, unfortunately, it's just not in alignment with the brand because it's not in line with me. I've never used one. I also, I'm like, I always want women to be their best selves and feel like their best selves. And I, the message that I want Boss Babe to stand for is not that you need a waist trainer.

So I was like, yeah, I'm really sorry. I appreciate this, but it's not going to be a fit because I also know like if I accepted that, that's also not in alignment with some of the brands that we work with. So you have to be really thinking in a holistic approach. Another thing is doing deals with multiple brands that cross over each other. So it's really not integrity to, let's say, you're working with a supplement brand and then you're running ads on one platform for the supplement brand and another supplement brand comes along. You're like, yeah, I'll do that too. And now you're running ads for two supplement brands, that's not really an integrity. It just doesn't give a good taste in the mouth, even if you don't have a non-exclusive. So just be careful. Like I think it's fine. Like different supplement brands bring different things at different times

and you might start with one and actually find out, oh, actually I've learned more about supplements and I'm going to switch my, you know, behind the scenes, I've used loads of different supplement companies over the years and that's okay, but just make sure it's not like, at the same time, January, you're running the same ads into accounts for different supplement. It's confusing for the consumer, and it's not nice for the brands. Yeah, and I think you'll always get found out. For us, let's just say, for example, SoulCBD.

We've been using SoulCBD from the very minute that company was born, because we know the founder. Our cupboards are stocked with it. We it we used all the time if we didn't people would know like they would know in conversations when we're not being paid but we're still talking about it if it was the opposite and we were saying oh you know I'm not too into CBD or it doesn't work for me people would think wait hang on you told me the absolute opposite and then that's kind of completely ruined the audience that you have and you're gonna lose any buying power and trust that you once had yeah you have to remember it takes a long time to build trust with your audience so don't put that in jeopardy for you know a quick dollar it's just not worth it it was funny I had Mona Katan on the

podcast which was such a good episode of those who haven't listened to it she's a founder of huda beauty huda's sister and she was saying that was like what was really important about growing huda's following the beginning which she was always like in integrity with who she promoted and this was way back when remember when it was like anyone was posting anything just for a quick buck like they were just i love love certain big influencers, but someone notorious for doing this. Skinny T. Yeah, Skinny T days. So she said like she would never, she would never not promote products that she didn't fully stand by. And I think that's why like Huda's, you know, community knew to know, like, and trust her. So when she brought out her new products, they sold because people knew that she was an integrity with everything that she promoted. So just remembering those pieces of information. Again, it's a marathon,

not a sprint. You are going to have your platforms, hopefully, for many, many years. If it's a personal brand, that's staying with you to the death. So don't take that lightly. Really think around it. There's always plenty of money. There's other ways to make money versus like compromising your values for a brand that you're not actually aligned with. Well, thanks for this. I love talking brand deals

and I know it's going to be so helpful for some people listening. Yeah. And if any of you are just starting to grow on Instagram and want to learn other ways to monetize and not necessarily via brands, you want to do more consumer. We did a podcast the other week, which I think is a really good listen to where we spoke

about how to grow and monetize and the things that you should fix, things that you're doing wrong and need to fix to grow on social media. Love it. Thanks, guys. If you enjoyed this episode, we would love it if you subscribed and left us a review. Let us know what you enjoyed, what your main takeaways were, and who you'd like to see appear on the show. As a special thanks, we'll send you a copy of our Boss Babe 25. Now, this is an awesome resource. It's the 25 essential things that you need for personal

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