the bossbabe podcast - 208. How To Build A Billion-Dollar Subscription Business with ClassPass Founder Payal Kadakia

Episode Date: March 8, 2022

Imagine turning that idea of yours into a real, billion-dollar business. That's exactly what happened to Payal Kadakia when her passion for dancing (and serious struggle to find dance classes in her area!) inspired her to create ClassPass, the revolutionary fitness subscription platform.  In this episode, Payal is revealing her groundbreaking approach to goal setting. From learning how to harness your talents, to resisting society’s narrative + using your emotions to fulfill your life purpose – she’s covering it all. Tune in to hear the real, behind-the-scenes of Payal’s story + uncover how you could turn your idea into a billion-dollar business, too. Highlights: How Payal Kadakia turned her idea into a billion-dollar business. The ONE thing that’s missing from your goal-setting + why it’s holding you back. Payal’s go-to tool for setting boundaries that works every time. The secret to getting investments in your business – regardless of what stage you’re at. What was really happening behind the scenes of Payal’s Inc. Magazine cover story. Links: Get Access to Payal's Société Masterclass LifePass: Drop Your Limits, Rise to Your Potential - A Groundbreaking Approach to Goal Setting Follow: BossBabe: @bossbabe.inc Danielle Canty: @daniellecanty Natalie Ellis: @iamnatalie Payal Kadakia: @payal 

The same month that my co-founder and I ended up on the cover of Inc. magazine back in 2012, we were also maced in mugs sitting at a coffee shop. And this was one of the hardest things that I had ever gone through in my life. A boss babe is unapologetically ambitious and paves the way for herself and other women to rise. Keep going and fighting on. She is on a mission to be her best self in all areas. It's just believing in yourself, confidently stepping outside her comfort zone to create her own vision of success.

Welcome to the Boss Babe podcast, the place where we share with you the real behind the scenes of building successful businesses, achieving peak performance and learning how to balance it all. I'm Danielle Canty, co-founder of Boss Babe and your host for this week's episode. Now, I'm going to be real with you guys, as I always am. One of my favorite things about this podcast is actually getting to pick the brains of really, really smart people. You know, if I was out for dinner and I was asking these questions, I would definitely come across as nosy and rude, but the podcast is the perfect excuse to ask these things. And I always try and bear every single one of you in mind. I'm like, what would they want to know? What else do I want to know? And I think that's the beauty of why Boss Babe

was created because Natalie and I thought there was this, well, we felt like we were ambitious women. We were entrepreneurs. We were like, hey, we want these things to exist. So we did what any other Boss Babe would do and we went and created it ourselves. But that's really where this podcast stems from. So if you are new here, I just want you to know that we get down into the details. We talk about the highs, but we also talk about the lows. And so for someone from the outside looking in, they might look at some of the guests that we have on here and think, wow, they have these most perfect lives. And this podcast is talking about all the ups and downs of their lives and sharing that with you so that you have an understanding that you're not alone when you're down and it is hard at times but there's always these incredible upsides to come and things happen

for you and not to you so if you are a regular listener first of all thank you if you're a new listener you are gonna love this make sure you subscribe right away so you don't miss any of our episodes and we release every single Tuesday with the most amazing, authentic guests. And this episode is no different. I am interviewing co-founder of ClassPass. Yes, ClassPass, the unicorn company with a valuation of over a billion dollars. And it was founded by Payal Kadakia. And she was actually the first unicorn status woman of color, which is actually amazing. And also sad that it's taken us so long to achieve this, you know, for her to be in 2021, the first woman of color to achieve this status. And I think it just shows you how much work we still have to do as a community.

Also, in this episode, you're going to hear Payal and I talk about what it's going to take and how we can all support each other. So this is an episode where we're covering all of the things behind the scene, just like raising money and what that looks like. Payal also shares her goal setting, her unique goal setting formula that she's done throughout the time of building ClassPass and actually a way that I had never heard done before. So that is epic and I've now changed my goal setting because of her. And she also talks about actionable tips. If you are building a subscription based business, which we all know, when you have a subscription based business actually increases your valuation. So we want to give you guys all the tips for those who

are building business or are looking to on what that looks like. Also, she did get really real and vulnerable about the time that she got mugged and maced whilst being on the cover of a magazine. And I want to share that because I actually think this sums up a lot about what we think happens on the front versus what happens in reality. So I think that's a really great segue into this interview. And also when you're listening to this podcast episode, you are going to love Payal and see how amazing she is, how smart she is and all the things that you have to offer. And you are going to be wanting to buy her book, Life Pass. So I'm going to actually put a link

in the show notes for this for you now, because I know when you're listening to it, you can be like, okay, I love this woman. I need to hear more from her and I want to buy her book. So go and support another woman, buy her book. As you're listening to this episode, you will not regret it. It's absolutely insane. It's actionable. It's real. It's all the things you would ever want in a book that's going to help you drop your limits and rise to your potential. So without further ado, let's dive into the episode, shall we? So Payal, I am so inspired by everything you've created. You are a billion dollar founder. You are smart. You are successful. And I want to come at you with all these questions about how did you do this, all the strategy, everything. But when I was reading your book, it was really interesting

to me that a lot of questions that you got asked weren't around like, how have you done this? What have you built? But it's like, when are you getting married? When are you having children? And I feel like as a woman, I've also come against those questions as well. And I just like really want to talk about like how that made you feel and how you balance that. And because I think it's a really big challenge that a lot of female founders particularly have to overcome. Absolutely. I think a lot of it has to do with expectations, right? And the voices in our head that we are told constantly since we were probably little girls, right? And that's really what needs to change. And this book hopefully is

the start of that, but there needs to be a lot more conversation around it. And you're absolutely right. While I had to have certain roles that I think a lot of people think women have in their lives, I decided to go a different path. And I decided to pursue my ambition and pursue building a company and go for my dreams. And I felt that a lot of people in life, while they were very excited and supportive of my dreams, they still wanted me to be normal. I don't even know. I hate even saying the word normal, but I think to other people, this idea of getting married, having kids, getting a promotion at work becomes their only way to feel successful and progressing in life. But that was not progress to me. Progress to me looked like something very different. And I learned probably like while I was building my company, maybe even a little bit before that,

to set boundaries. And I think that is one of the hardest things that so many of us do not know how to do because we are told to please everyone, to show up for everything. And what we really need to do is be able to look inward and say, this conversation is not serving me, right? This thought process is triggering a conversation in me that is not going to help me and push me towards my authentic self. And over my journey, I've had to do this many, many times, like you just said, whether it was getting married. Once I got married, when are you going to have kids? Once I had kids, when are you going to have another kid? It doesn't end. And I've learned in my own journey and by obviously looking at other incredible women, I need to set my own timeline. And I think no one helps us in that. No one tells us how to do that.

And I really hope that everyone knows that you are supposed to chart your own path and live by your own terms. No one else's. I think that's actually really profound and really important to emphasize because we can work towards changing society's perspectives or expectations of us as women. But really when you're trying to do that as a goal, it's going to take so, so long versus like, okay, well, what can I control now? Like what can I control around me? And one thing that you can control is your emotions and your actions. And I think that's really powerful because I see a lot of women or I hear a lot of women or just people generally, they give away their power. Like you made me feel this. Yeah. Whereas actually like people can have effects on your emotion, but it really is up to you how much effect they have on your emotion. And can anyone really make

you feel something? Exactly. I think you're totally right. I don't know. It's going to take time, maybe decades before society changes its point of view, but you can start today. You can start setting those boundaries on people, on conversations you don't want to have. You can transform that thought into something that's positive if you want to in your own life. I think the best thing that I know I've always done is I run towards the things that make me happy and I don't feel bad about it. And I think that's really what, especially us as women need to do. Don't feel, don't question being ambitious. Don't question wanting to do the things that you want to do in your life. And by the way, if it is getting married

and have kids also embrace that there's nothing wrong with that too. I think it's a matter of making sure that the life you are living is the one you chose. So, so powerful. So let's, I wanted to go back to the expectations and right from the beginning, from you as like a young kid, I'm really curious, like, what were you like growing up? Were you someone who was like, oh, I need to, I'm one day, I'm going to be a billion dollar founder. Like, I'm really curious how you ended up in this situation. It's a really good question. Honestly, when I was younger, I was the baby of my family, right? I'm like a really petite, small person. Like I literally was babied my whole life. The one thing that I really shined in since I was

really young was Indian dance. I just had this way of performing that people really gravitated to, that people loved. So every family event we had, everyone would be like, is Payal going to dance? And so I literally would spend a lot of my free time working on choreography that I was going to perform. And I really enjoyed that part of me. But that was really like the only thing in my life that I felt was sort of different and sort of, and I knew that I was really good at it and exceptional at it. And I knew it made me feel good to dance and give and share this experience with other people. So I found that when I was really young. So a lot of my life did revolve around dance because it was something I was good at, something I felt really passionate

about. Outside of that, I was checking the boxes for my parents. So I made sure I got straight A's. I cheerleaded. I wanted to get into a good college. I was literally doing most of the things that I feel my parents would have been proud of me to do because I know it was important to them given the sacrifices they made to come to America and raise me and my sister. Those were important values that they had to impart on their children. And as I was growing up, as much as I obviously wished to dream about a crazy life of being a creative, I think I like watched Beyonce, JLo, and Britney mostly because I loved entertainment and I was a performer and I was a dancer. But in the back of my head, while I dreamt about a life or something creative,

I knew in a weird way, my life and the journey that my parents put me on meant I had to do something like business, being a doctor or a lawyer, just because of the path that was laid out. And only until I got older did I start questioning some of that because I felt I had built enough basis and foundation to succeed in other areas of my life. So what I reflect on actually hearing this conversation is when I was at school, my generation was that academic studies were really favored and it was very hard to get, you know, see credibility in some of the arts. And I see that changing now, particularly with the creative economy that's really driving things forward and social media has done a lot for that.

But for some people, I explained to their parents like, oh, I want to be an entrepreneur or I want to start this business. I want to do this seemingly risky thing versus be a doctor, be a lawyer, be a teacher, be an accountant, be like all these like normal jobs. Like very hard for them to even have those conversations. And so I'm curious, like what is your advice? Like you've been through that and you, but you had to wait to that credibility, I guess, that you had to come back to your parents. So I'm just wondering what you learned from that. Yeah. So I think first is you need to understand where their expectation is coming from. So I did a lot to understand why is my mom forcing me to get married or why does my dad want me to get a degree from another college, right? The reason it was coming from their own fear, right? It was coming from their own sense

of, wait, I don't want you to ever struggle in your life, right? It wasn't really coming from, I need you to go to business school or I need you to get married. It comes from, I want you to have security and love in your life, right? I think just flipping it a little bit to understanding what their pressure might be on them is understanding in any relationship with expectation, right? And this can be in work, right? In your personal life. I think once you can understand the value and the actual root of where that expectation is coming from, it helps you start working on the next part, which is oversharing. So what I did a lot is while of course I was following the right path and checking the right boxes for my parents, what I was also doing is oversharing how good I was at

dance and these other things in my life, the creative side. doing is oversharing how good I was at dance and these other things in my life, the creative side. And what it did is it gave them confidence that I was applying the same security, those same values that my parents were instilling in me in another part of my life. And as they, you know, as I started putting on dance shows and got like celebrities to come and selling out shows, there was no part of them that was like, okay, like she's not like, I was clearly successful at this. Yes, it probably wasn't the path that they would have put me on, but I think they saw the community cheer me on and they saw that I was still making progress and using their foundational values that they put in me. Now, those are all

obviously things that can work out and be positive. If you really feel like someone's not budging on something, I think the last measure I would take, and I have a story I can share on this too, is honestly, you just got to be like, hey, I can't talk about this. I got to go. And I think one of the hardest times for me was when my mom was asking me always, who was I dating? When are you getting married? In the midst of me building my company and having, honestly, probably one of the greatest times as an entrepreneur. And I kept feeling inadequate. I kept feeling like I was going to sleep every single day thinking I wasn't enough because I wasn't married or I was single. Wow. And I had a company that was bulldozing ahead and being the first this and first that for a

female founder, but I couldn't appreciate it. And what I did during that time is every time my mom would call and we would talk about a lot of different things. I loved my mom. I loved talking to her, but she, second, she would bring up dating. I would very nicely say, Hey mom, I love you. I got to go. I have a meeting. And I would hang up. And that was my way of blocking it out because there was no reason she wasn't going to change on that topic, you topic. And I think, like I said, you have to realize that sometimes this is coming from their own fears. She wasn't going to get over it. It's really hard to change people who've had hardship in their life and where

they were coming from. I understood where it was coming from. And she was also being probably nagged by my other aunts and other cousins in her life too, but I didn't want to carry that burden on me. And my best way to do that was to say, I'm going to shut this off right now. Do you know what? It's just really interesting because a lot of this is like generational too, and it gets passed down and it takes someone like one really strong, but also very in control of your emotions. And when you initially said that, I was like, but why did you say I'm going for a meeting versus like, oh, I don't want to talk about this. mean I started with that but it just she wasn't budging you know like I was like done yeah I mean I think yes I think you have to realize over time like I said

there are certain people who you will who will change their mind and there's certain people like your parents that yeah that might not change their mind ever and what can you do to protect yourself and you have to protect yourself in that situation and set boundaries. If you don't, you will be at the mercy of that conversation and that triggered spiral that's going to constantly lead you in a negative place, which is going to break your confidence. It's going to break your momentum towards the positive things in your life. And honestly, my mom came around eventually. I think we actually needed that break. And I remember afterwards feeling more connected to who I wanted to date and what I wanted out of marriage. And a year after a lot of this, I remember after that period for us, I actually ended up finding my husband, but it was

a hard time. I remember because I needed to like break up with my mom for a little bit. Yeah. And also I feel like this can be like overlaid into so many different aspects of different people's lives. Like you at that point were having an amazing time with your business, but then like feeling like you were failing in your relationships. And I suspect now, and I don't know if you're open to talking about this, but, you know, because you overlay that in the sense of, okay, business is great, but then motherhood. And then I'm also like curious with other people, like, oh, they might feel like I'm a great mother, but now I'm failing the business.

And I just think it's really great to talk about the topic of feeling sometimes like you're failing in like all the areas like I relate to that I'm like okay my business is doing really amazing but I failed at my marriage like 100% 100% um okay feelings are the most important thing versus then checking anything off the box and I think as a founder who has accomplished a lot I realize that right? Getting a billion dollar valuation is great, but it doesn't, it's not the end all be all feeling, right? At the end of the world. What makes me most proud of ClassFast is the fact that I've helped people get to class, go and move and do things in their life that they never thought they were going to. That to me stays with me as a feeling. Hitting a day where we get to a

number doesn't stay with me. And I really want people to understand that because I think we value these accomplishments and we don't value our feelings. And you're absolutely right. And the only way to really figure that out is, you know, and actually my whole entire life pass method that I have, my goal setting method, it starts with emotion and feelings. So the first question I ask you is, how would you describe this last year in terms of five emotions? Not, how would you describe this last year in terms of what did you accomplish? Because usually, if I told you how was your last year in terms of what goals did you have, you could list off a thousand great things. Wait a minute, let me just find my list of accomplished goals versus like, oh, how did I feel last year? Right. Because we can't start setting goals for

the future until we're anchored in emotion. And that's also the same thing that I do with the goal setting is let's not anchor in on goals yet. Let's first anchor in on emotions. In a year from now, what five emotions do you want to feel? Right? Let's celebrate that. Let's anchor in on how I want to feel in a year, not what I want to accomplish. And what I loved about that in your book is you gave examples of yours, which I thought was really great because I know it was like, and I want to come to your journey, building class pass in a second. But that for me was like hearing you say like, there was one that I really related to.

It was kind of like, was it like insecure, something around that? Like, I think you probably had a lot going on in your life and it was like uncertain uncertain yeah was it the word that you used and I was like wow that's actually really powerful because then when I was like because I did it obviously I'm doing this but yeah like that uncertainty that made me feel like oh actually I felt like that last year and how can I bring more certainty into my life this year? Right. And when then you have these words to look through, you have this lens, I feel like. Then you start making decisions really like based on some of those.

Okay, well, I want to feel like this. So then it helps me not only do the goals, but it helps you create actions. Exactly. With those in mind. Right. And that's honestly, you know, I've developed this system obviously after I lived a lot and done a lot of these things in my life. And people always ask me, you know, how did you keep dancing in your life? How did you, you know, whatever, get married, have kids, all that. And I did have this goal setting method in my life by that point,

but I had always been juggling how I want to feel and what I truly want to do with what other people want me to do combined with what are my priorities, how am I going to schedule them in, and go for it. And I don't like to do things mediocre. I like to do things well. So if it's my personal life, I want to have a goal in there that is aligned to my dream words, which is what I call the emotions we're reaching towards. I want to have actions that are helping me move there that I am excited for. Not that I feel like I'm doing a cross off some checklist. And I think that's usually where goals go wrong sometimes is they're unattainable or they're unmotivating and you just never want to get to them because they feel like a to-do list. Yeah. This is the first time actually,

we've been doing the words to set, like three words that you want to take through every quarter. But I haven't seen someone do the reflection of the emotions before. And that was really powerful. So I was like, oh, actually, this is a really great reframe to then going on to set the new ones. So speaking of setting goals, achieving them and all the things, let's go back to ClassPass in the sense of like, when was that idea born? And I know it was started off very different, but let's just go back to then. We have a lot of aspiring entrepreneurs and people are on their journey. So I would love to just kind of take it step by step on what happened. Yeah. So I started the journey over a decade ago. Not an overnight success. Of course not. Of course everyone thinks it is. But literally

2010 was when I had the idea. It was the summer I went out to San Francisco. I met a bunch of entrepreneurs because entrepreneurship was something that was really more only in Silicon Valley at the time. And I bumped into a lot of creative people who also had business savviness and skills, which is sort of the background I had. And I was so inspired, I decided to think of an idea. And I gave myself two weeks to think of an idea. Wow. Okay. And the reason I did that, everyone always asks me, they're like, why did you give yourself two weeks? It was because I was ready to make a career change at that time. I didn't know if

entrepreneurship was going to be the thing. I could have looked for a job in another industry, whatever it might be. But I figured, okay, if I can think of something in these next two weeks, then great. I'm going to stick with it and go for it. And if I don't, I will go and pursue the other options. So it really, once again, and I do this in my goal setting too, it gives me a deadline. So I don't let something stay forever and never make a decision because I think being indecisive is the best way to fail, right? It's just, you kind of lead yourself in a place where you make no progress. So here I was, I was thinking of ideas and I got off the plane. I come back from San Francisco. I'm training in ballet at the time in New York City. And I decide I want to try a new class in the city. And it seems like an easy

thing I could go onto the internet and find, but it becomes a disaster of, you know, spending hours looking for this class just because I don't know what website to go to. By the time I'm like on five different, you know, dance schools websites, I'm in like a different place and I can't figure out which one to go. How, if it's the right level for me, all of that. And that's when I start thinking, wow, what if this was as easy as open table for classes? Right. Wow. Let's take a quick pause to talk about my new favorite all-in-one platform, Kajabi. You know, I've been singing their praises lately because they have helped our business run so much smoother and with way less complexity which I love. Not to mention our team couldn't be happier because now everything is in one place so it makes collecting data,

creating pages, collecting payment, all the things so much simpler. One of our mottos at Boss Babe is simplify to amplify and Kajabi has really helped us do that this year. So of course I needed to share it here with you. It's the perfect time of year to do a bit of spring cleaning in your business, you know. Get rid of the complexity and instead really focus on getting organized and making things as smooth as possible. I definitely recommend Kajabi to all of my clients and students. So if you're listening and haven't checked out kajabi yet now is the perfect time to do so because they are offering boss babe listeners a 30-day free

trial go to kajabi.com slash boss babe to claim your 30-day free trial that's kajabi.com slash boss babe okay so you were like giving yourself two weeks and then you like just happen to be so you're just observing observing observing what's happening in front of you then you go to do this thing had you had that experience before and not thought about it so let's say you were in New York or somewhere had you ever tried to search for a class and that idea didn't come out and it was just a new thing I had you know actually right when I came to New York I went to look for a Bollywood dance class and it ended up being the first thing on Google which I got lucky for but you get lucky? So this is what's so intriguing to me. Because I'm like, you were literally in a similar situation and it went a completely different way.

Totally. And then this way it was like, I feel like when you put things out there. Yeah, you're right. I asked the universe to help me find this problem. And of course, this was a pain point and like a tech problem. And I'm sure a lot of people who are entrepreneurs here have found problems in their life they want to solve. But I realized in that moment, I was the right person to solve this problem. Why? Because I didn't know what other combination of a human, and I talk a lot about this too, was somebody who obviously had an MIT Bain background from business, but then was sitting here dancing, skipping business meetings to go to dance shows. I was living this crazy lifestyle.

And I don't know what other combination of a human was fighting so hard to keep dancing in her life at that age. And I knew that made me the right person to solve this, not just for me, but for everyone else. And that's why I knew that the mission of ClassPass, it was called something else at the time, was something I was ready to commit to. Okay. So you had this idea. You were in Silicon Valley at that point and you're like, what do I do with this idea? Yeah. So next up was market research. So I went and asked a lot of my friends for, hey, when was the last time you went to a yoga class? How did you find it? I was doing a lot of qualitative research and market research on figuring out how big of a market it was for fitness, for other activities, because at the time I actually

was interested in things that were non-fitness too. So I think market research is important. Then as I started telling my friends about it, a lot of them wanted to give me checks. So raising capital from friends and family is always one of the easiest ways. And you'd be so surprised at how supportive they can be. I had people, my friends being like, hey, I want to give you $10,000 to start your company. And I was like, what? Like, I don't even have it, have it, you know, I haven't even, like, what's the word I'm blanking on right now? I haven't even registered it, you know? And so

it's one of those things where for me, I remember just feeling that momentum of investors and people wanting to give me money. And then the third part was finding a team, right? Because I didn't want to do this alone. I think that's also a very big decision that happens in finding either you want to do something like with a co-founder or not. I think the entrepreneurial journey can be very lonely if you're doing it alone. And so I had a good friend of mine who I'd worked with and honestly had been one of my best friends since we were really young. And he decided to join me on the journey full time. And it was really nice to have somebody to throw ideas out. I'm sure you know this. Yeah. It's, you know. I've heard that, I've heard, and I don't know how true this is and I'd love for you to answer this, but I heard it's

much easier to start a business with a co-founder, but as it grows can be harder if like the relationship isn't very solid. Yeah. I mean, most co-founder relationships do not last in any company. No, I mean, yeah. Sanjeev left about three, four years into building the company too. And it's fine. Like, I think you have to almost go in knowing that and that early phase is a different part. Everyone's roles are different. The second it really works and you get investors, even your founder role changes, right? Which we can talk about. Like, I think these roles as founders are really there for the early stage to build and create something. When all of a sudden, you know, one of the founders has to become the COO or the CTO, it feels really weird to all of a sudden be boxed in because as a founder, you do it all. Yeah, you do. You know? I mean,

we always joke. I think I've sat in every single seat in this company. 100%. And I think that's the fun. That's what makes it exciting for us. So the second someone's like, oh no, you're only going to do this one role. It almost feels like your position is smaller. And I think that's really tough. And I also think that as your company scales, whoever is CEO, the role of the CEO gets

very amplified, you know, especially with investors because they want one person to keep responsible, you know, and to be not even a spokesperson, but who's responsible, right? And so at the end of the day, while it used to feel like this like team effort, which it still is a team effort, the responsibility and weight on the CEO becomes a lot more amplified, right? At that point. So all these pressures, I think, change the relationship. So I do think people should go into co-founder relationships knowing that it's probably not going to last. And at some point, someone's going to leave because I don't think it's something that lasts in most companies. You then co-founded. So you had the idea, then you went and co-founded.

Then did you, when did you go into Y Combinator? Oh, we were in Techstars. Yeah. So we were in Techstars in 2012. So very early on in the process, we hadn't even launched yet. So we were in an incubator. It was the second year of Techstars actually. How did you join that? I found it and I applied and I luckily got recommendations. So on the day I quit my job, I sent an email out to a bunch of people I worked with telling them I was going to do something entrepreneurial. And the vice chairman of Warner Music Group, he said, I'd love to hear what you're working on. Please come to my office. And I'm like, oh my God, I can't believe it. I'm like walking. I go to this floor, which I had never been on ever in my three years working there on my like last day of my job. And I tell him about what I wanted to build and he goes, I want to invest. So here's $10,000. And I also want to give you a recommendation into Techstars

because I know the people running it. And I was like, great. And so he wrote me a great recommendation. I had people from my Bay Network write me a good recommendation and we got in. And it was amazing because only 13 companies out of 1500 at the time got in. I'm sure the numbers are even crazier now, but during that time, like there wasn't as many startups and many of these programs. So to get in was a huge thing. Actually, my co-founder and I ended up on the cover of Inc. Magazine for getting in to the program. That is insane. I want to hear about, there's another Inc. story, right? Cover Magazine or is that the same one? No, that's the one. Yeah. That's insane. I want to hear about, there's another Inc. story, right? Cover Magazine, or is that the same one? No, that's the one. Yeah. That's the same one. And then we got attacked.

Yeah. It was all around the same time. Wow. Okay. We're going to come back to that because that is actually a really interesting story about the ups and the downs that we all experienced to keep us probably humble and sane. So you're in TechStart, you were building from there. How did the idea develop? Because I also feel like there's this misconception or something that I think paralyzes a lot of entrepreneurs from starting is feeling they have to have this perfect idea. But quite often you don't even know what the perfect idea is. Yeah. So honestly, we made a lot of mistakes. I don't think we used our time at Techstars very well. We were stuck on the idea of building this open table for classes. We spent a lot of time

perfecting it, making beautiful homepage designs, making sure everything looked beautiful. But we weren't doing enough customer research on if the product would work, if this is how people wanted to use it. And so at the end of Techstars, you launch, you have this big demo day, all the investors come from Silicon Valley. And at that time, I guess New York started coming up with investors too. And you're on stage in front of literally 10,000 people. You do your pitch and everyone's like signing up for your platform too. So you have a ton of email addresses. So obviously I'm thinking we're going to launch on this day and reservations are going to come flooding in, right? Like you just think that's going to happen. We spent a year building

this. We had funding. We got into this amazing tech incubator. There wasn't a part of me that thought it wasn't going to work. And of course it didn't work at all. Like we had no reservations day one, no reservations day two. And you know, I'm like talking to my CTO. I'm like, is the site working? Like did, are the buttons working?, you think there's something wrong? Nope. Like people. How did you feel? It was a really hard time. I mean, I think as a founder, I remember looking at my colleagues who were in the program and just feeling like we failed and that I had focused on what I call now false signals of success, which were things like followers and press, thinking fundraising meant I was succeeding,

getting into this incubator meant I would succeed. I remember being really, really, really disappointed in myself, frustrated, thinking, wow, why did I start this journey? I took a lot of risk. I mean, my team was taking a massive risk. And also right before that, what we were just talking about before, my co-founder and I actually had been maced and mugged sitting at a coffee shop. And I was still dealing with that. And so I think inside I felt very just empty and I felt lonely. I felt low. I lost my confidence at that moment, which is a really hard place to be in the middle of building your company. I think my sheer confidence is what always has, has energized the team and energized the motion. So I was at a really

low point. And, um, I remember that summer, we just kept changing things on the platform. I was trying to raise capital. We were about to lose, run out of capital. I was going to say, up to this point, how much did you raise? How much did you raise? I think we were around a million right before. So you've got this pressure of, okay, I've taken a million dollars of people that I know too. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it was that. And by the way, like, you know, I knew I had raised it from people who, of course, I didn't want to lose their money. But like, you know, in my head, I was more focused on like, I need to figure this out. I wasn't going to let myself fail. How was I going to do it? And yeah,

but I mean, you're right. It's a pressure of my team. It's a pressure of paying the bills. It's all of it. And I remember we ended up doing a small bridge round. Someone thankfully gave us another $300,000 to help us get through this period because we needed to rethink the entire product. And I remember it was sort of the end of the summer. So about two months after this Techstar stuff had happened, about three months after the Mason and Mason mugging attack. And I get on the phone with one of my advisors and he was like, Pyle, you signed up to do this. Are you still invested in this? Do you still want to solve this problem? And because it's on you, if you want to do it, go and do it. Like you still have money, like you have a team, go and motivate them, go try something new or give up. So, you know, let me just get it straight. You'd raised a million, you'd launched it. It was a

flop. You were nearly running out. Well, you basically ran out of the million, but you did a bridge round for this 300,000. And then that where you're like like I have to either make this I gotta either go or quit a thousand to turn this around yeah and I either had to go or quit right at that point and you don't know which one you don't I didn't know what we were gonna do but I remember when he sparked in me again you signed up for this this, it's on you. I remember taking the reins back. Like I remember being like, this is on me. If we're going to keep going, no one else is going to figure this out, right? Startups have no blueprint, right? They don't, there is no, oh, if you do X, Y, and Z, I mean, we all can give everyone advice, but there is no formula for this.

It was on me to keep trying new things. And I realized because I was in this weird state from, you know, getting a tag to, um, to this, like, you know, this failure moment that I was stuck. I was almost comfortable in being stuck a little, and I didn't know how to get out. This was my first time really learning how to be an entrepreneur because I learned how to get out of that situation. And I remember walking in the next day being like, Hey team, let's go and try a few other ideas. Let's go. Who's got ideas? Like, let's go put it out there. Let's go and do this. Let's go and do this. And I remember feeling like I was wearing a whole new persona at that point, right? I had fallen back into being entrepreneurial pile.

And I remember at that point, and this was the hardest thing, is we down-signed the team. We got rid of, we had this penthouse office. We got rid of it. It went down to five people. I remember I stopped doing press, stopped doing everything. We went into hiding. We started building another product. And this one was scrappy. There was no tech really involved. I mean, it looked nice on the front end, but on the back, it was complete, like us writing in numbers manually, emails being sent to us to make reservations. It was such a manual process.

But honestly, I look back and that was when I really became an entrepreneur. Like that was, that's the entrepreneurial journey is being that, you know, that hustle, that data-driven, that, not even data-driven, but that in the weeds of your product. And that was amazing. I'm so glad we are speaking about this as well, because it's not so bad right now, but I feel like the last couple of years, we've been, well, last few years, we went through this trend of glorifying raising money. And raising money can

be great and it can make amazing businesses. But actually, it's just amazing to build a business from the ground up. You might not get this ego fed by the PR of it all. And I think that's like really like bringing a lot of people back down to earth. A business is only successful if it is able to, like you say, generate money and profits. And I mean, to even keep mentioning that, like, I think that's very, very true. Raising money comes with a lot of responsibility. Your investors want a return of not just like double my money. Like they want more than that, right? That's why they're investing in you. They want return, which means you have to generate

profit. And sometimes that comes at the expense of your customers. It comes at the expense of your life, like any of that, because they will do whatever they want. And especially like I've raised over $500 million. That came with a different price tag too, right? And obviously I knew the ClassFest was business model needed that. It was very similar to Uber and Airbnb. It was a global type of business, but not all businesses have to have that. I think if you want to build a big shop, go build the big shop. You don't need to raise capital and feel that you are on the hook to someone else to give that money back. And you can build it the way you want. And I think it also comes back to the goal setting that you do in the book as well. It's like, what emotions do you want to embody through the year? And also like raising money and having that

type of responsibility or having that type of business isn't for everyone. Like if you are risk adverse or if you like, you know, your, let's say your nervous system can't cope with that. Yeah, you're right. It's a lot of pressure. Like, you know, often you're spending more than you're earning at these. Well, all these times it's like, you know, you've had these deadlines, you have these run rates that you are, you know, going to come to an end and you have to be able to keep going and keep being generating growth. Yeah, absolutely. And you're at the mercy of the market, you know, and also like sometimes the markets are frothy and you get cash. Other times they, they're, you know, they're like sometimes the markets are frothy and you get cash. Other times they, they're, you know, they're harder to get capital out of. And you are literally at the mercy of all of that and have to navigate it. And look, like some businesses are great and they're

profitable from the beginning. Other ones you have to invest in heavily. And Classhouse is one of those businesses that needed heavy investment in the beginning to end up generating profits in the future. And you just never know. But I think what's important, and you're saying that really well, is remember your why and what's going to make you happy, right? Is it about having... And for me, look, I knew I wanted to build a product that changed as many lives as possible. And I know, obviously, everyone wants to do the biggest thing they can. But if it makes you happy to do something for a smaller group of people, do that. Don't get stuck in the numbers, right? Even in terms of like social media and followers. Like I think we're in this world where everyone just wants more and they don't know why

they want more. It just feels like a game of so many more customers and followers without adding value to each other. And honestly, one of the most important times at ClassPass, and I always remember this because people always think, oh, like when you knew it was working, did you have like millions of subscribers or like thousands or? No, I literally remember we had 150 members. That's it. And I just remember reading their customer service emails and how happy they were using the product. And that's when I knew I had product market fit. It wasn't anything more than that. And I think that's like the beauty of it is, wow, I learned how to change the lives of 150 people. Maybe I've earned the right to do it for a thousand. And that's how people should think. I think so many times we think, oh, okay, like,

let me do it for 10,000 and they want to get to the millions first, but they don't know how to even make an impact on one person's life. Right? And I would think about that in terms of content too, is what are you putting out there? What product are you putting out there in the world? I love that. That's so powerful and so important. I want to come back to raising money. You've raised over $500 million. I think it was like $549 million.

I love that you have the exact number. I did. Because I'm curious as to the processes of that, like how much you raise in each seed round and like what were the difference in those rounds? Because I also am kind of leaning into the fact that, you know, it's less than what, 3% of funding goes to women.

And that's even smaller for women of color. So I want to talk about that because I think it's really important that we understand what this looks like and we push for change in that. Yeah. So Seed Round is almost all about you as a person and your vision, right? I think a lot of time, and who you know, right, at the end of the day. And that's why it is important for all people to be around the table because it is a lot about connections at that time, right? It is not about what your product looks like and all of that. I think by your Series A, and I think for us, we were at a place where we

had closer to product market fit in just New York City, and we raised our Series A to prove out that this could be a product that can be used in other cities. And so we used our Series A money. We ended up launching in another 10 cities, and then we were able to raise our Series B to do another whole strategy to literally take over the rest of the US. That's literally what a lot of our strategy was. And every business is different. That's why you can ask these questions, but it honestly matters about what your business is. I think the best advice I could say is Se you know, seed round is really about you. Series A starts becoming about your product. Series B, you get closer to what, can I see a, can I see a good profit margin here? You might not have to be in a great profit margin. You need to be able to show growth, right? And by the time you get to series E and beyond, you're at a place where your business

should be generating profit. And it's something that if someone knows I put a dollar in, I get a few dollars out, right? And we were talking about that in the masterclass too, but it's really about what's the return on their money. And by the time people are handing you the bigger checks at the CREC level, it's got to be a big enough idea that's growing. And so that's something that I think about for women too. And it's really like, let's solve. We obviously all face so many problems just in life that we can solve. Let's solve our own obviously all face so many problems, you know, just in life, right, that we can solve. Let's solve our own problems. I went and solved a problem about fitness that so many women were facing that happened

to be a problem that every woman around the globe was facing, right? And I think it's really about thinking about ideas like that because, you know, why it's easy to say that the numbers don't go to us is when, you know, there are companies like Spotify, Uber that are raising tens of billions of dollars. These little checks of a few million dollars are going to be pennies in comparison, right? So I want to push there to be bigger ideas so people are raising those Series C, Series D, Series Es, right? And at the same time, I will also say this.

By the time I was raising those rounds, there was basically no women at the table in those rounds. There are definitely more. Honestly, when I was raising capital, there was like no women around the table for the Series A either. I think that's changed now, thankfully. But when you get to the B, C, D, E rounds, there's barely any women. And honestly, you don't always have a choice in who you're going to take the capital from because it's all about the numbers, the terms, all of that. So it's hard because then whoever kind of does that round gets to put the person on your board. And, you know, it changes the composition and who is really sitting in sort of a place of power, right?

It's so interesting as well because I guess this is part of the problem. Like, these are problems that a lot of women face. I was listening to this conversation where this woman raised. And basically, this guy was like, no. But he came back to her because he spoke to his wife and daughters. And they're like, are you kidding me, dad? This is like the best idea. Yeah. That happened to us too. I mean, a lot of my VCs came back to me because they heard their wives or they were like, oh, people in our office started talking about

this and how much they love it. And I'm like, why did it take for that to happen for you to come back to believe in this? Right. I guess that's a conversation. Like we need to like, VCs need to be responsible for having just as many women. Yes. Those positions. You know, actually this is always my, my favorite thing. I remember when I was first talking about ClassPass to a lot of investors. And like I said, it was mostly men in the room. So many of them were trying to persuade me to build an app for personal training because that's what they wanted. And I'm like, I am trying to build an accessible app that's for a women-centric behavior. And they just could not get their head around it for so long until I showed the numbers, right? So that's the other thing I'll say. And I didn't see it at the time.

People were always like, how are you affected by being a woman in tech? And look, I always tried to stay positive and I just plowed through. I just didn't let any no stand in my way. That was my ethos. And I think that's what we have to do as women is just say, I'm going to keep fighting and I'm going to keep going. That being said, I look back and I realized it took me to have a lot more data and a lot more positive momentum on our product to raise that capital than I probably would have if I was a man. Yeah. And it's not that like, we're like anti-men or any of that. It's just like, unfortunately, they don't get it.

You want to talk to a guy and get him to buy into your like feminine health-based company or like something else. And they're not going to get it just like we wouldn't with men and some of their behaviors. 100%.

So I think that's just like really interesting to call out. And maybe women who are coming up against challenges with raising or feeling like they can't convince people about their ideas, are those people you're trying to convince even your target market? And if they're not, go and get that evidence that's like, no, this is why you're wrong. Show them the evidence. Yeah. Because you do not, you are not my target demographic. So no, you're not going to get it. Right.

But these people do. Explicitly show them the market research, right? Like send it to the women in their life if you have to. I mean, this is, none of these things are okay, but that's sort of like the circumstances we are dealing with right now. And that's sort of how I am. Like, I think, I mean, the conversation we started this with is look, all of this does need to change. I'm not going to say that it doesn't, but we need to deal with where we are right now and prove and show more stories of the successes. So what do we all do right now to make that happen? And we have to deal with, unfortunately, these, you know, little bit of these ceilings that are put on top of us and do what we can to break through them, right? And they sadly

are not going to be just lifted on their own. I think it's going to take all of us to keep chipping at it for the whole thing to be lifted, but we need to keep chipping at it. What are other pieces of advice that you would encourage women to do to chip away at it from like someone who like you say has gone through the system in a way? Like when you look back, like, oh, if I could give young founders or women raising money, these pieces of advice is to help create the change. What would they be? So first of all, be confident in who you are. And it took me a little bit to get here. But once I realized, like I said, no other person, no other combination of a human being could have built ClassFest. It was me as a woman, as an MIT nerd, as a dancer. It was me. It was all the parts of

who I was that made me right for that. And before I would have wanted to hide each one of those aspects in different areas, but I really felt confident in it. And I think when I developed that confidence, it helped me lead in those moments. The other thing I would say is figure out how you're going to tell your story, right? So when you go and pitch, you want, look, of course, like the data and numbers mean anything, but they also want to see someone who is so confident, so effective, so passionate about the idea. So they know you are the person to build it. So you can't question yourself. So do whatever you need to to get into the zone of being your best self in that meeting so you can storytell well, perform well, get your hair done if you have to, right? And I'm saying that because

it's really all about setting you up to succeed. And I remember doing that to say, you know, I remember like I didn't want to wear business clothes anymore. So I started wearing my fitness outfits to my pitch meetings. And I'm like, because I feel the most confident and comfortable in this. And I am speaking my brand and the lifestyle I want others and my customers to exude. And I also stopped getting caught up about knowing every number and starting to tell a story and sort of be in performance zone really. And I'm a performer naturally. So I very much like rely on your skills and the things that make you successful to make you successful in these meetings, right? And in these interactions.

I think we so many times will say to ourselves, oh, I have to act like somebody else. No, the reason you are that leader and that person building that is because you are the best equipped to do it. Show them that, right? And be proud in that. Don't hide that from any of them. I love that. And that kind of comes full circle to how we start this conversation where it was like,

you know, take control of like your emotions and be like, know what suits your surroundings. Like what gets the best out of you and like leaning into being your best self. Like that looks different. Like I just had to let go of trying to be in this 5am clubm club I'm like I'm never gonna get up at 5 a.m people like it's not happening yeah like it's just not me it doesn't work for my body and like now I oh no when I started owning that like everything felt lighter I was like oh I don't have to be pretend I'm someone I'm not and I'm like oh I'm getting up at 5 a.m like this reminds me of I cannot cook and there are so many times in my life

where I've tried to be in the kitchen. And even like I have a son now and my husband and I literally am like, you do this. Like you do, you make him dinner. Like I, it's not my thing, you know? And honestly, especially as a woman, people are like, what? And in my head, I've thought about it. And even my mom will be like, hey,

like, are you going to come make him food? I'm like, look, and I can do little things here and there, but I literally am like, I'm going to just stop making myself feel bad for this and let it go. I have this amazing wheelhouse over here. I'm okay with this not being in my wheelhouse. Yeah, exactly. Focus on the things you're great at, you know? I mean, I think I've always done that. You know, my husband always says it like, Pyle, you're like so good at dance and you're so good at like entrepreneurship. And then there's other areas of my life that I'm like, I don't know how to make. Like, I almost feel like I'm like oblivious to it.

I feel like that's just such a relief. And that's why I love this podcast. Like, it's all about the behind the scenes and just hearing like, like there's gonna be women like, oh my God, I don't have to be good at cooking as a woman. Thank God. Yes, please. It just like relieves everyone for this pressure because I feel like sometimes if we don't have these conversations, we're also kind of putting the pressure on each other like no one's really

chatting about what's going on behind closed doors and like that's why we want to have these conversations are like okay well what is it like building a business and how is it hard sometimes and speaking of hard like I want to talk about what happened when you were on the cover of Ink magazine because to the outside world like oh, oh my goodness, Payal, she's this amazing woman. She's got it all figured out. Like she's doing all these amazing things. I want to be like her. I want to have her life. I want to be like, that's what people look up to. Right. And then sometimes it's like, okay, well, no, she's having these conversations with her mom on the phone about trying to marriage, like not being in like dating or any of these things.

And also you were like maced and mugged that same month, right? Yeah, same exact month. Actually that same month also, my dad was in the hospital. Like it was like so many bad things happening. And I remember barely even enjoying that. But I think you said this, it's really about, I think the world just keeps you humble through these moments. So I think you just have to find a way to get through things. And honestly, at this point, just keeps you humble through these moments. So I think you just

have to find a way to get through things. And honestly, at this point, like nothing good affects me that much. Nothing bad affects me that much. I know that kind of doesn't sound great, but I've been through so many ups and downs in my career at this point and life that I've learned to like ride the waves and they've become, everything feels milder now, right? Even something like COVID feels milder. And I remember actually like something I think about a lot, especially as I plot out like this next decade of my life is I want to try something new that feels a bit more, I like the up and down. Let's be honest. I'm, I guess an adventure junkie, right? You know who was also like this? We had Maria Menounos on the podcast and she was exactly the same. She was like, life

is like felt when like, oh, you're on the edge. And I was like, is it? I do like being that. And I want to feel that for something I don't know. Right. And whether that's about learning, it's just, you never want to feel like you're numb to stuff, you know, but I will say this. I think the more, you know, you take big leaps in your life, the less like big they feel right going forward. And that's, it makes it easier to cross. forward. And that's what makes it easier to cross, right? And that's why no failure or down point ever feels like it's going to last that long. And no, like great moment also is going to be what I've put all my worth into because they last for a few seconds and it's over. It's not my, my true worth comes from being fulfilled on a daily basis. And that's how I set up my time and how I want to live. And that's really what makes you happy in life and successful. I love that. Okay. So I want to do some practical

questions because I do have some people who are building subscription-based companies. All right. Let's do it. I know we covered this in our masterclass because you are our guest expert in March and gave so much value to everyone building a subscription-based business or membership-based business and what to do. But three things on the podcast that you're like, if you are doing these three things or watching these three numbers, what would that bit of advice be? High level. Yeah. So you should always know top of funnel who's coming to your website, right? And if you can try and capture those email addresses, especially for a subscription, because subscription is a bigger commitment, right? So the more you can

at least get the interest in it, the more opportunities you will have to engage the person later and convert them, right? Second one is the conversion. What's going on from top of funnel to conversion, right? So getting them to actually pay for whatever you are putting out there. And then after that is obviously churn, which comes down to really engagement. I actually think churn is like, don't focus on how many people you're losing. Focus on the engagement of the people because the engagement of the people is going to actually be the first indicator to churn, right? If they're not engaging, they're going to churn. Churn's too late. Churn's too late in the process. By then, you've lost the customer, right? And so obviously you want to look at it, but focus more on

engagement to really make the product shift versus focusing on how to reduce churn. Focus on how to get people more engaged and get the value out of what you're offering. That is such a reframe for so many people. And you were the first person I have actually heard talk about that because most people will say churn. But like you said, there's too late then. You need to think about what are they doing before they get to the churn. And so like at ClassFest, we always looked at reservations. We knew if people didn't go to class, they were going to turn. Well, I didn't need to wait for the month to be over to see that the person wasn't going to go to class and then turn. I should be getting them to try and go to class. I love that. So if you were to do,

I have one more question before the book, I'm like touching it already because it's so beautiful, but if you were to do ClassPass again, is there anything you would do differently? This is a hard, hard question. A few things I think I've learned in the process. One that's really practical was I wish I didn't announce my series. A, was it? Because it spurred a ton of competition around the world and the US. But that's like a very specific thing to ClassPass. but I remember thinking about that. I wish it wasn't announced because the second we had proven this business model, every single city had a pop-up version

of a ClassPass competitor in it. And it just became for us like raising more money, going faster. We had to go so fast during that time just to keep up. So that was an interesting time and we maybe could have made it a little slower if that announcement hadn't gone out, but you can't always control these things. I think the second thing when I look back is how, and I, you know, I think it's one of those things that you're solving so many things as a founder, but I really wish I had more women on my board.

You know, I have obviously fought for that, the journey of ClassPass, but I didn't always have the options because of like what I was saying is there wasn't people at the CRE, CED level that were women that were able to sit on my board, you know? And I think by the time a lot of these conversations came to light, and I remember fighting for it even with my board, I think by those, by those times, it was, it was one of those things where it was hard to change and it took a long time. I remember we were finding a woman to get and it took us two years. And I literally was like, why did it take so long? They would give me 17 men and I'm like, I don't want the man. I want the woman. But it was so much easier for them to recommend a man to the seat.

And I think that's really what I really constantly have thought about. And anything else I do is, how do I make sure that that is at the core of it and that we're supporting that journey for women? And it is really hard because we just need more women to keep chipping at that ceiling. Thank you for calling that out because I actually think that's a big thing. It's about being intentional. And it does take a bit more effort at times like even just like we're pulling guests together with this podcast like you know there was a time where we weren't necessarily

intentional about who we had on it was like okay well you know these people are coming to us and it's easy to say yes yes yes but actually like no we get to be more intentional about having making sure we have a variety of women on who are all colors, all different industries. And we get to make sure we're really looking at that. And that is something that we- It takes more time. It takes more time. It takes more effort.

But that effort is so freaking important. Yeah. And I think that's just calling that out. And I guess if we go back to what is the advice for other women as well who are raising, be intentional about who you surround yourself with. Keep an eye on it. Yes. Yeah, pull it out when you see it.

The tribe of women I have in my life has been so incredible. And I, you know, I just want that in whatever I build too. Like, why wouldn't I want that in what I'm doing going forward? And I think that's really a part of what women need to know is like, build your tribe of women and keep them. They will like be loyal to you and they will stay with you along the journey. And especially in business, like you need people who will be loyal, you know, to your vision because you go through good times, you go through bad times, right? And you can't have people who are just going to throw you out if like something bad happens, right? And I think

you need to have people who are going to deeply care. 100%. And then my last question, I think is like, I read this book. It's really incredible. It's so actionable. It's so open. And I feel like we're going to have to get you on the podcast again to talk more about motherhood and all those pieces because I actually feel like that really has a place of conversation in this podcast. but you started writing this while she was still working in ClassPass too. So I'm curious, like at that point you were so busy, you were doing all of these things. You were, you know, really instrumental in the growth. You weren't CEO at the time, were you? I wasn't CEO, I was chairman. You were still like very like, you know, big part of the company. Yeah. You're like, oh,

I'm going to find the time to write a book. Like why? I feel like that has to be a why. Like there must've been something in your heart and soul that was like, this book needs to get out there. You know, it's funny. I, I think I got really energized it when I found out I was pregnant because it became this thing of giving. Yeah. Like a little, yeah, exactly. Actually. It's funny that you say that because I was actually with like Jay, it was Rodney's birthday and it was just two, three years ago. And I said like my three goals were baby, book, and a ballet, which I'm working on for my dance company. And I remember saying that out loud and I was saying like, I'm all about creation. That's

really who I am. And I want to create something. And of course I was creating a baby, which was nice. And I also kind of knew after I had a baby, I would never be able to really find the time to do this because I love my son to death, and I just want to eat him up every time I'm with him. And so I just felt like it was this really good period in my life to give back, honestly. It felt like a responsibility because I knew I had lived my life in a very unique way, especially my 20s, which I think no one speaks to the 2030s audience, right? We're always kind of told how to live and how to be. But I didn't want people looking back when they were 50 being like, I lived my life wrong. Like, start it out right, right? And you

have everything that you need from when you were younger, even though you honestly question yourself so much in your 20s. I mean, we don't feel secure yet, right? We don't feel confident. We don't have money. There's so many things that are troubling us, but that doesn't mean you should not start charting your own path. I love that. And what are some of the things that if someone reads, they're going to be like, this is what I learned from this book. They will learn how to prioritize their life, for sure. An amazing goal setting system. Yes, exactly. Prioritizing goal set.

You will learn to not feel guilty because that's, I think I talk a lot about that, about knowing what you can say yes to. I plan my time so well. I actually have this whole hack I talk about, about how you do a Sunday night weekly priorities list and then look at your calendar after. So they will learn all about that. And honestly, they will learn to really self-reflect. And I think we forget how much self-awareness and reflection is the key to being able to decide on what we're going to do

going forward. So I ask a lot of personal questions to people about, you know, how are they feeling? What are decisions in their life they've made and who do they make them for? And sometimes the world never asks us these questions and we should answer them. So we know how we are living our life. And then if we want to change something, we can. That's what's really amazing about this book as well. It was like very like experiential. Like there were questions in there for you to go away. Like I really immersed myself in it versus like, oh, just reading it and being very passive. It was a very active book. I don't know if these are the words that are really supposed to be used for books, but like, that's how I felt. I was like, oh, this is making me think. And this is

like actually giving me action things to do. Great. That's what my intention was. And of course, like, I know no one's going to probably do every part of it, whatever. And if they do, great. But it's really about, I hope you carry it with you while you're making important decisions in your life going forward. And just to ground the conversation, because I do feel like sometimes,

you know, people like yourself who've gone on to achieve such amazing things, it can be a little bit like, oh my goodness, you know, like I'm never ever going to be all these things that Payal is, but you came in today and you were like, oh my goodness, all these things are happening. And I think that's just really nice about you. Like you keep it real and everything isn't always perfect. And you, like the rest of us, have your own challenges. Yeah. I think we're all on a journey of just being happy and fulfilled, right? And it keeps changing. I live my life in a way that is purposeful and that to me should never be something that ends, right? So like I said, none of my accomplishments, they make me feel excited and feel more capable of doing the next big thing, but that's never my end state. And I think for other people, like I think about that too, like

doing a dance show for a hundred people gives me as much of a high as having my company be worth a billion dollars. And I think that's what people need to know is it's about what it means to you. It's not about what it means to other people, right? And I think that's really what impact is and what purpose is. So true. And so I want to make sure everyone has the link to the book because it's out now. Yeah. Literally amazing.

I know we've been giving signed copies away at Boss Babe. So I'm going to put a little link because you also have a – actually, I'm going to give a few links because we're going to put a link for the book. Yep. We're also going to do a link for the goal setting in there as well. The workshop, yep. Because it's in the book too, but there's a little workshop. And also we're going to do a link because, for the society. Because like I said, you came in, so if people are building subscription-based businesses, like, I know, I was like, I literally said, our whole team, you all need to watch this masterclass.

We've got a billion dollar founder in teaching us how to improve our subscription-based business. And the society is that as a membership as well. So I know we've been learning from it and there are so many amazing things in there. So I'm going to put a link for that to join and learn even more from you. But I just want to say thank you. Thank you so much. Thanks everyone for listening and joining. Yeah. Thank you for being open and honest and always super vulnerable about all the things. I think that just makes you like such an inspiration for so many women and you keep it so real and just very, very grateful for you, Paya. Thank you. Thank you for having me. If you enjoyed this episode, we would love it if you subscribed

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