the bossbabe podcast - 209. What You Need To Know If You’re Running Paid Ads In 2022

Episode Date: March 15, 2022

If you’re struggling to gain traction from running paid ads or still feel bruised after the infamous Apple + Facebook feud, you’re not alone.  Emily Hirsh, CEO + founder of Hirsh Marketing, is here to help you climb back up on your feet + start seeing success from your paid ads strategy again.  In this episode, she’s unpacking how to level-up your ads strategy using her proven formula that’s generated $106 million dollars.  Plus, Emily gets candid on how she resorted to out-of-the-box strategies to help her company – and hundreds of clients – navigate the sometimes turbulent Facebook ad shifts + stay profitable regardless of all the constant changes.  It’s time to stop blaming ads for stagnant engagement and start seeing sales from every click. Learn how it’s done. Listen now!  Highlights: Why most ad campaigns fail + what you can do to see real results. What the most successful ad campaigns have in common. The ONE thing that’s missing from your current paid ads strategy. How to get results from paid ads – even with constant changes happening online. Links: Just Thrive Use code BOSSBABE to save 15% Hirshmarketing.com Not For Lazy Marketers Podcast  Radical Candor by Kim Scott Follow: BossBabe: @bossbabe.inc Natalie Ellis: @iamnatalie Danielle Canty: @daniellecanty Emily Hirsh: @emilyhirsh

Now, as a business owner, you kind of have to become a creator and a CEO at the same time to keep up with the attention span and the behavior that's happening on the platforms, which is like, feed me new, new, new information, short, new information. A boss babe is unapologetically ambitious and paves the way for herself and other women to rise, keep going and fighting on. She is on a mission to be her best self in all areas. It's just believing in yourself. Confidently stepping outside her comfort zone to create her own version of success. Welcome to the Boss Babe podcast, the place where we share the real behind the scenes of building successful businesses, achieving peak performance and learning how to balance it all. I'm Natalie and me and Danielle are hosting this episode with Emily Hirsch, who runs a really successful marketing agency.

Now, the beginning of this interview, we dive into specifically Facebook ads and how that landscape has changed over the last year. So if any of you are interested in running paid ads or hearing about the different updates that have happened since the Apple and Facebook divorce, then this is a great episode. But we do pivot the episode. So we start with the tactical Facebook stuff. And then we actually get into a lot more nitty gritty business and personal. So Emily had a really difficult year last year, and she's been really transparent. So she's a seven figure business owner. And she's been really transparent about last year. She almost lost everything and was in fact having to fund the business from her savings because things just weren't going well. So we pivot from talking about Facebook ads into talking about what that was like for her. And basically she describes

exactly what happened in her business, exactly what led to this, and then what she did to turn it around. It was really, really valuable. And it's not often you find someone that is, you know, as candid and open as Emily was willing to be in this episode. And we talk about how she balances all the things she does with her business and how she does that, you know, when things aren't going well, as well as when they are going well. Because regardless of how you're doing in business, as a business owner, you still got to show up. So I really love this episode. I love how candid it was. And I think you're probably going to get a lot of it. There's probably a lot of moments throughout this episode that you're like, I really, really relate to this. So anyway, let us know if you love this kind of episode where we do

really go behind the scenes and talk about the lows as well as the highs. Drop us a review. Let us know your thoughts. And then as always, if you could share this on socials and tag us, we would be so grateful. We really want to get the podcast into more ears of women just like you who we know that it could really support. So sharing really means the world to us.

And with that, let's dive in. You don't have any more? Oh, yeah. I mean, that's exactly what it is. You don't have more? No, we're done. No. That was like a rule for my husband. I was like, before I give birth, we're going in for surgery. Emily, thanks for joining us on the Boss Babe podcast.

Yeah, thanks for having me. Now, I'm personally very excited about this interview because I'm like stepping into the world of Facebook ads. Now, you own Hush Marketing, which is one of the fastest growing marketing agencies. You are responsible for creating over, was that like 108 million for your clients through Facebook ads? Casual. Yeah, casual. However, the Facebook landscape has changed a lot since the recent, well, I say recent, it's not really recent anymore, like last year, 14 iOS updates. So I want for you to start by just sharing like how that's really impacted you and your clients.

Yeah. I mean, yeah, last year was insane. I think the biggest thing was obviously the increased ad costs for everybody. And I feel like March is when it rolled out officially. And so everybody knew it was coming, but some people were like, oh, it'll be fine. You know, it'll be nothing. We didn't really know what to expect. And then going into like April, May, June, you really saw the ad costs go up a lot. And iOS is technically like we lost data, right? So Facebook loses data, that impacts audiences, so that impacts you as a marketer. So Facebook, I think, purposely increased their ad costs. They actually admitted that by 47%. In some cases, we saw that go up more than that. And the space just became so

saturated, it felt like last year, where what I've been saying is you just had to be better to survive. Your creative had to be better. You had to produce the creative faster. Your copy had to be better. Your offer had to be better. And I think what it ultimately did was just exposed holes that were already there for a lot of businesses because they were able to get away with not having a great funnel or not having a great strategy or, you know, doing something halfway because ad costs were so inexpensive and it was okay if that was the case. But now, I mean, it's all got to be dialed in from your organic to your paid to your messaging to your funnel to your strategy or you're not profitable. And for those who don't know, it's kind of like the divorce between Facebook and Apple, wasn't it? So Apple always traditionally, and correct me if I'm wrong, they used to give their data to Facebook

so that Facebook could run ads very strategically because they had all of this data on how we were using our iPhones, but then they stopped that data exchange, right? So Facebook had to use different platforms to get the data to run the specific ads. Yeah. So essentially what they did is Apple gave their users the ability to say, don't track me. And so if a user now is in the Facebook app and they leave and they go to Safari or they go to a different app, they no longer have that data. However, if they stay in Facebook, they still do have that data. So that's important to note because things like watching videos on Facebook, you know, your videos or

Instagram, yeah, and, you know, engaging with your content, that actually is still tracked. So those became some of the more valuable audiences for, you know, targeting or utilizing in a strategic way because it wasn't impacted by the iOS updates. And so the people who had dialed in funnels, did you see them still succeeding or did they even they take a hit? It was a mix of both. What I really saw last year is that almost every business had to be faced with pivoting. So I feel like even our most successful clients had to come to terms with, I've got to shift my offer a little bit. I've got to try a new webinar. And not just small pivots of like, let's just change the title or, you know, do this little tiny tweak. It was like big pivots. It was completely updating and

adjusting offers to be better. That's ultimately, you know, myself included, what I had to do in my company and what I wish I did sooner in the beginning of the year once I saw that. But I think that's what everybody kind of went through. So yes, they still, you know, we have clients who have been with us throughout the whole process and were there before, but I did see them. I think the ones who were the most successful were willing to do those pivots and didn't stay in the mindset of, oh, well, it was working a year ago, so it should be working now and I shouldn't have to change anything. It must just be the ads, you know, or iOS. And so the people who are willing to like face that and go, oh, times have changed or things have changed for my audience. Cause not only we're dealing with iOS, we're

dealing with everything that's happened in the last two years for the world and the economy and everything that we have to, you know, catch up with as well. So we have a lot of ambitious women listening to this podcast. They might have a small business or a big business or wanting to start one. And really like from the years that I've been in business, Facebook and advertising, whether it's Facebook or Instagram, has been a real gateway to opening up scale to a business. And a lot of people don't know whether they should renounce or, you know, if they if they should I start thinking about it and when what is your advice to those kind of companies who are just starting out yeah so I think the most important thing before you run ads is that you've got

your messaging in place which to me I define messaging as your understanding of your ideal customer because you can't do anything without that if you don't know who you're going to go talk to or create content for or create your offer for, you'll be back there in two months trying to figure that out. So that's the most important piece and that drives everything. And so many businesses don't have that. They think they do. But if you ask them like, really tell me like, what are the frustrations and the struggles and how are you connecting with your audience? They don't have that deep knowledge. So I think when you have that, then you have to make the decision of, do I want to do this slower organically, which I know you guys are super successful organic, but it takes more time,

right? Organic is often time investment. If you're able to do the paid ads, you can kind of speed up eyes on your content or eyes on your funnel or your brand, but you have to be willing to invest and not make it back right away. So if you're looking at ads saying, I'm a new business owner, I need something to save me and create success for me in 30 days,

that's not going to do that for you. And then I wouldn't go that route. You have to really see the first three months, probably, as an investment. And so I tell people, I'll ask yourself, what could I spend and not make it back right away? That's your marketing budget. I feel like ads is like a quick way to success or a quick way to failure. Like you say,

if you haven't really defined your niche and your market and you haven't really identified what problem your product is solving, then it's a very, very quick way to burn a lot of money. Yeah. Ads are going to amplify what you have. So if you have a broken foundation, you don't have your messaging, you don't have a great strategy, you're not differentiating yourself from other businesses in your niche, it's just going to amplify that. But if you do have something unique, you do have a really great offer, you are creating amazing content, you can amplify that with ads. I think what a lot of people underestimate in business is the power of messaging too. They might try running ads and it's not working. And they think, well, I'm price strong.

No one's interested in my offer. You know, all of these different things, whereas they might not consider that actually it's just a messaging change that's needed. And I think that's the power of being able to build some organic audience for us. You know, we will, you know, we know our ideal client inside out, inside out, and we'll put a webinar out there and we're not getting the signups. We're like, wait, there's no one interested in the webinar. And then we'll pivot the title. And all of a sudden we get an influx of signups. And so it's really, I think it is important to be able to have some kind of audience test bed, and maybe you do this on ads too, but be willing to fail, put something out there, pivot, test, change the headline. You don't need to build an entirely new product, which a lot of entrepreneurs go and do. You can just

pivot some messaging, get it working, and you'll probably scale that to a certain audience. And then you need to pivot again and change the messaging. Do you see that? That's one thing I've seen increase over the last two years too, is like the pace that you have to change what I call the wrapping paper. So what you don't have to change, you know, a whole new funnel or a whole new offer. That's a mistake because then you're back at square one, but you do have to change webinar title, the positioning, the content you're putting out almost on a monthly basis is what, you know, at least quarterly, but sometimes monthly. And what we've been doing for myself and for some clients is almost like coming up with themes sometimes of like, how can we position it like this for a while? And then when that starts to

burn out, we come up with a different way, just different ways to repackage it. So I totally agree. And I've seen that really speed up, that need to push out more content, change things. And I think that is a reason a lot of people are struggling is because they're exhausted from that. And I think that business owners have felt that in the last year of like, I am working so hard and not getting the same results that I used to. And I'm trying 10 times harder in my marketing and I just can't keep up. Yeah. I love that concept of the wrapping paper. I think that'll help a lot of people like, oh yeah, I don't have to change all the way down. It's just like how it's wrapped. Oh, Christmas theme. Yeah. Valentine's theme. Like what color's the paper? But I hear you on the exhaustion of that as well as a business owner. Why do you think we're in this space now

where, you know, we're having to change monthly? Do you think it's people's attention spans? Do you think it's how the ads are working? I think it's both. I think it's mostly the attention span. If you look at the evolution of content too, when I started six, seven years ago, it was like Facebook Lives

and you could do like a 30-minute Facebook Live and people would pay attention to that and they'd get on live and we had Periscope and people would do that, right? And they'd sit on live with you for like an hour and watch that. That would never happen today. We've moved to this micro content over the last seven years. So now it's 15-second TikTok videos that are now what are capturing people's attention.

And so the platforms are just following what their users want and creating that engagement, which is these really short, entertaining, swipe, swipe, swipe to the next one videos. And so now as a business owner, you kind of have to become a creator and a CEO at the same time to keep up with the attention span and the behavior that's happening on the platforms, which is like, feed me new, new, new information, short, new information. And do you think video is the way forward in ads? Have you seen that trend between static and video? Yeah. So it's really interesting. Yes and no. In a lot of cases, yes. But in some cases, it's been interesting where we've seen like a real or a short form video actually did get a lower, like for example, cost per click and actual ad engagement, but that it didn't lead to the conversion. So I think it's capturing the attention sometimes on the front end, but then it may not be the best route. But that's why you have to test. You've got to do video.

You've got to try image. I think in terms of valuable content, video or podcasting is for sure dominating in that over writing because people don't read like long form writing anymore. They don't have the time attention span for it, but it is important in your marketing to not be like, I'm a hundred percent doing video or I'm a hundred percent doing this thing. You've got to have some variation, I think, to keep people engaged as you know, with organic, with ads, ads all of it I love this for those who are starting like a new business and I also want to cover all these bits of details and we'll kind of like segue this conversation but I love it when like people grab their notepads and pen and make

all these notes but if you're starting a business do you think you should go for organic or do you think you should come out the gates the Facebook ads yeah So I honestly think both, which I know is difficult because you've got time. But I think that organic is you need to have that because even if you're running ads, somebody could make it over to your profile and check it out. And if you have like nothing there, that's not going to look great for you. I think ads can speed things up. So let's say you're putting out really great content. You're publishing a podcast or a video every week, your reach organic is going to be somewhat limited. If you're willing to put even just a small budget behind that content, which I don't think people realize you can do that. You don't

have to have a full funnel even done to put some ad spend behind something and then just increase the amount of traffic that you're getting. But it does depend on that investment because you can't go to Facebook ads to say, I need to make sales. So now I'm going to go to Facebook ads to solve all my problems because again, it's just going to amplify what you have. So I think organic is a great way to start. And so I think some people can do it better than others and get that traction. It depends on messaging and do you have the best content and are you going to get, you know, that that's the algorithm too, is organically is looking for that. But I also think paid ads can kind of speed things up for people. You know, for example, if you're trying to generate leads or see how your funnel works,

if you're able to spend money on ads, you just get more leads in the funnel. You can tell faster what you need to fix. You can get that feedback faster than you can just 100% organic. But if you don't have the budget, I would say go organic, network, just hustle until you have some budget to invest in ads. And then you're seeing that initial ad budget as an investment. I always say that it's an investment in the long term of your business, not let me save my problems. Any paid platform could Facebook ads come and save me and make me sales. And when you start running ads, you don't any paid platform could Facebook ads come and save me and make me sales. And when you start running ads, you don't run in like straight away like, oh, I'm going to spend 10K a day. It's like you're testing it, right? Watching those data

points, making those tweaks to really try and find that sweet spot. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And I think that people do do that. It's like the throw spaghetti at the wall approach of like, I'm going to run ads. And they're so excited to start the budget and have no idea. But I think I always teach, first choose a budget that you're okay not making back. Like if I was to ask you, what could you spend next month on ads? And it's an investment. You're not going to make it back. What's that number? That can be your budget that you start with. And then try to figure out, okay, if I spend $1,000, how many leads do you think that you can get from that? If you pay $8 cost per lead,

how many leads is that equal and how many sales? That way you're going into it. I think that creates some confidence for people because it never feels good to be like, well, I'm just spending money every day and I have no idea what's happening and I don't know if it's working or not. But if you have at least some sort of projection, some sort of goal, and you may not hit it, you might have to adjust it, that's okay. But at least you're not flying blind with your budget. That makes total sense. And just going back to the organic versus paid, I think going into it and knowing that you have proof of concept, going into it and knowing someone is willing to pay you for the product and the messaging is landing is so important. And when people skip that step, they often blame ads. And it's like,

well, were you able to do this? Were you able to get the numbers organically? Were people really interested in it? And if the answer is no, it's like, okay, let's go back to the drawing board before we throw spaghetti at the wall. But speaking of the exhaustion that a lot of, I think, people, but definitely business owners, have been facing since 2020. You've been really candid about your business journey, especially last year. And I think a lot of us as entrepreneurs can relate. Can you go into what last year looked like for you? Yeah.

Yeah. So, I mean, I run an agency, Facebook ads. And so iOS updates not only impacted us, but our clients, which then impacted our business for sure. So last year, kind of like summary of what I shared was at the end of 2020, I was at a $3 million run rate as a company. So my team, so my expenses, it doesn't matter where you're at in business. You just know, okay, if you make it to a certain level, you've probably experienced now you've increased like softwares and team members. And now your lifestyle, it all matches that level.

So last year we did a total of 2.5 million, which was less than 3 million. And so last year what I experienced was fine on the outside. It would look like, wow, she has a multimillion dollar company. And it was really successful. But we went through a phase, mostly like the summer, I would say of like three or four months, where we just were like signing the same amount of clients we were losing. And we were in this like hamster wheel. And it was about four or five months of that until I realized, wow, we got to change something bigger. But the difficult part

about it was the pressure of the payroll and the expenses and being the only one who could get us out of that situation and not really having the answer. Like I'd never been in that situation before. My business has always just grown like from the beginning and gotten bigger. So that pressure of like, wow, what if I lose it all? Or what if I fail? Or, you know, I have three kids and I'm the breadwinner. And so that pressure was definitely really challenging. So I've been really open about that and gotten so many people who have been like, it was the same for me. And I think that we don't talk about that enough, about how the fact things can go well for a season and then you can go backwards.

And that's actually normal. And I didn't really know that until I've gone through that. But what happens is it doesn't matter if your expenses are $2,000 a month or $100,000 a month. You've built up to needing to pay that. And then if your revenue goes backwards, you still have that responsibility. And last year, I remember I got $100,000 in savings. And that's a lot of money, right? If I was to tell myself that seven years ago when I started, I'd be like, that's crazy. That's so much money. It was gone in months. Yeah.

You know, and I realized, wow, I could have a good savings and be doing everything right and lose it all so fast. And so that was eye-opening for me. We did make it through and had a great month in December, but it required me to really sit back and say, okay, we got to make a bigger change. Let's talk about what you had to do to make it through. Yeah. So in the summer, it was that of like, wow, we're doing the same things. We're working harder than we used to work in our own marketing. And we just aren't getting that momentum anymore.

It's just slowed down people. And it's because of iOS. People had that hesitation. Their businesses were struggling. They couldn't afford the ad costs. So we tried, like, okay, let's try this new funnel. Let's change this webinar. And I realized it's our offer. It's what we're selling has to catch up to what people now need in the market. So we shifted our done for you, which used to just focus on Facebook ads, to we do the funnel copy. We do the funnel building. We come up with the content ideas because the reality is, and you can make this relevant to whatever your business is, but your audience and what they need is going to change over time. Like every company you look at has pivoted their offers as time goes on. And so what I had to look at was, wow, our clients, they are not going to be

as successful unless we do all these things for them because they need all these things now to be successful in marketing and they can't do it themselves. So we need to offer it. And it did feel somewhat counterintuitive because it was like, well, I have to actually increase my expenses a little bit by adding service, but that's worth it if you're now retaining more clients and your offer is more appealing. So your business was struggling. Yeah. Your costs were more than you were making. And the pivot you decided you needed to make was actually to increase the cost further. Yeah. Yeah. And let me explain the little bit of the scenario of what I did because I think it was really valuable. So July was the month that I was like,

I'm quitting after that month. So anybody who runs a team, and you guys know there's two months out of the year where there's three payrolls. And so there's an extra payroll that you have to come up with that cost. And so July was that month for us. And my payroll at the time was about $70,000

each every two weeks. So that was an additional $70,000 when I was already fairly profitable, like, but still profitable the month before. So I had to come up with that additional $70,000 that month we lost $60,000. So that's where I'm saying I had a hundred thousand dollars savings cut in half in a month. So from there I was like, we got to talk to our audience. Like that's all, that's the only thing I know what to do at this point is interview. So we did 50 interviews and we just talked to them. What are you guys struggling with? What are you trying that's not

working? Yeah. So we reached out to like my entire email list, social media channel and customers. We did a mix of everybody and we did 50 interviews and we went through the same, you know, questions. And this is something I teach people at the beginning in their business to come up with who your ideal customer is and make sure that your offer is like in alignment with that. I think that there's a lot we could come up with in our heads and we don't know unless we actually go talk to people and ask them specifically like, what are they struggling with and what's missing for them right now? What are they trying that's not working? And that gave me intel into what people wanted. I didn't go ask, what do you want? Though, that's a mistake because people don't know what they want. But they know what's not working and

what they're frustrated about. So we did that in August. And then in October, we changed our offer. I love that you did that and just called that out I think you know businesses have their own cycles they have their own seasons the summer the spring the you know everything's coming to fruition and there's harder winter months and I think the fact like businesses that survive are those that pivot and I think that's one of my biggest learnings actually on this entrepreneurial journey you know there was a company that was absolutely huge in the UK called Yellow Pages I don't know if that what the American equivalent is we have like a yeah like a directory right with everyone's like numbers in and like when the internet came out they just didn't pivot quick

enough like they eventually came out with yow.com but they just didn't pivot quick enough and I think you know eventually that business went out of business and it's profits dropped a lot but I think when you say early on like hang on a minute I minute, I need to reassess. I need to pivot. I need to go and ask what is now working in the market because markets change. They change with the iOS update. They change with COVID. They are changing. And if you get stuck in your ways, ultimately your business is going to suffer. Yeah. And I also love that you've been so transparent about what it looks like, because it can be very easy to put on a front and say, I have a multi seven figure business. And it's like, okay, well, what ball are you making money? You could be hemorrhaging money

and having the worst time of your life. And, you know, we can relate 2020, our business exploded very unintentionally. We were just like, how do we help businesses get through this? And we grew so quickly, but we were giving everything that we had, everything that we had. So by the time 2021 came around, we started making some decisions out of burnout and we made some really bad hiring decisions out of burnout. And we put some of our business in the hands of people that we probably shouldn't have, which meant that our business in 2021 was incredibly stressful. And thankfully we, we got it to turn around as well. And I think it's, it's just important to be able to share that because people, people often think, you know,

things will be easier when I play a bigger game. Things will be easier when I've got more sales, when I've got more revenue coming in, when I've got more team, it's going to be easier. But when you play a bigger game, you probably play bigger stress, pressure, pressure is higher. You play bigger in every element. And like you said, what you can lose becomes so much bigger. And all of a sudden you're responsible for a lot more people. Yeah. And I just think it's really important to call that out and just acknowledge the world is tired. It's very tiring being a business owner at this point. And especially like you were saying, you know, you have three kids, three young kids, and you're the breadwinner. How did you deal with that personal pressure? And what was it within you

that made you continue with a business of size versus, you know, throwing the towel in and say, you know what, I could create something a lot smaller, no team, more profit, less stress. Yeah. I mean, it was not easy. Like I want to make that clear. Like it wasn't easy. And there was days that I was like, why am I doing this? Because what's most frustrating and I think all entrepreneurs can relate is when you're working so hard and then you have no money to pay yourself. You're like, what am I doing? You doing? What's the point in this that I'm stressing and getting up? But I think a few things. I didn't have another option but to turn it around. I'm not just doing my business for fun. I'm also doing it because I need to provide money for my family. I also think what clicked for me at one point was I realized when

we did all those interviews, I realized how many other businesses were struggling and were in a similar place. And I also realized, well, we're a marketing agency, so we can turn that around for them if I can just figure out what the change needs to be, what the formula needs to be. And so that was super motivating for me was like, if I, it's my job to push through this, to have the grit, to not give up when I wanted to give up, and to know that I have the power to make an impact. And if we can turn it around and get the results and show that we can save these businesses who are struggling in similar ways, we're going to be fine. And I still believed and knew that our core foundational process would work.

It just needed pivoting. We essentially just needed to add more support to create more support for people. So that kept me going. And then to be honest, my team, I would have days where I like didn't want to work when I got up. I'm like, again, what's the point? And then we have a daily team huddle and I'd get on that huddle and I'd see like the clients that are still doing well. And the team members, we do shout outs. So celebrating like celebrating like hey like this client had this launch or whatever this win was and so that like kept me realizing like you still yes this is all bad and scary over here but you still do have something good that you've worked you know six years to build and it's not all lost but it needs to be pivoted and so that that honestly kept me going

um I think think something I've shared transparently is that it's so easy for us to just hold the burden, at least for me. I felt a lot of times where people would be like, how's things going? And I'm like, it's great, because the energy to explain to them, it's actually not great and go into it was just more energy than I had. I'd rather just like keep it in, solve the problem. Just probably a weakness of mine. But I did feel super alone in a lot of it because, you know, my mom friends,

they don't understand when you're like, I have to make an extra $70,000 this month. You know, like they don't understand. And you don't necessarily want to talk to other entrepreneurs about it because again, it's like giving the problem energy. I would tell my husband, but he didn't understand. You'd be like, well, what can I do? It's like, nothing. You can watch the kids. I don't know. And so my team I leaned on the most,

like my leadership team, that was my direct reports. There's a few of them specifically that because they could actually help me solve the problem and they understood the day-to-day. So that was helpful for me too. And I think it's just realizing that it's normal is helpful too, because there was times where I was like, man, like, did I forget how to be an entrepreneur? You know, especially when you've experienced a stint of success and then you're like struggling and realizing like, it doesn't matter. Again, if you're a beginning business owner, that feeling of like investing all you have and not knowing what's going to happen, we signed up for that, but it's not easy. Let's take a quick pause to talk about

my new favorite all-in-one platform, Kajabi. You know, I've been singing their praises lately because they have helped our business run so much smoother and with way less complexity, which I love. Not to mention our team couldn't be happier because now everything is in one place. So it makes collecting data, creating pages, collecting payment, all the things so much simpler.

One of our mottos at Boss Babe is simplify to amplify and Kajabi has really helped us do that this year. So of course I needed to share it here with you. It's the perfect time of year to do a bit of spring cleaning in your business, you know, get rid of the complexity and instead really focus on getting organized and making things as smooth as possible. I definitely recommend Kajabi to all of my clients and students. So if you're listening and haven't checked out Kajabi yet, now is the perfect time to do so because they are offering Boss babe listeners a 30-day free trial

go to kajabi.com slash boss babe to claim your 30-day free trial that's kajabi.com slash boss babe yeah i love that we're normalizing this and i think it's just a good thing to talk about the team as well because natalie and i had that as well we used to very much hold our cards close to our chest like any challenges we would be solving on our own like you didn't we well we didn't want the team to feel the pressure or the strain or the stress but what we realized is they would see it on our faces yeah I remember doing um doing a 360 review where I sent something out to my team it was early last year um and obviously they'd all seen the hard 2020. And I thought I was doing a good job of keeping it all together, holding my shit together. And the biggest reflection that

came through was your energy shifted and we can see the stress. And I was like, wow, I thought I've been holding it in and it's doing everyone a favor, but actually everyone was looking at me being like, clearly you're stressed, but you're not talking about it. And then they're more worried. Yeah. Cause they don't know. Whereas when you have that like transparency with them around like hey look everyone's jobs are safe however yeah this we need to turn this part around we need to have a brainstorming session and what to do here um I think giving them that piece of control actually really helps and um I mean I've certainly felt very supported via by our team this year by sharing those things versus us kind of locking ourselves in a room going okay how do we solve this on our

own like okay let's bring everyone together yeah the more brains on this the better and the more easily we're gonna um be able to solve this but I definitely share the same feeling around like being aware of who you share the burden with because it actually does take energy to talk through it as well so I totally relate to that like anyone else who would ask me like yeah things are fine yeah it's just telling them the story is actually made me really reliving the energy of it all questions and you're just like there's no there's no good you're not gonna help me get out of this at the end right I also think entrepreneurs are really really good at finding the light it's like what you were just saying earlier like okay there's all this going over

here but there was some good stuff here yeah and I think that's one of the major skills of being an entrepreneur like you have to be so optimistic it drives other people crazy and like you have to find the light you can be in the darkest room but you have to see the crack in the door because that is what's going to get you through that's how you find that next stage that's how you pivot yeah okay because otherwise like if you just don't have any hope if you lose all hope then yeah the business doesn't pull itself out of it but I think that's a key thing always try and look for it there's always there's always some light coming through somewhere you just gotta search for a little bit and and speaking of team too I know when we went through some team issues last year and just pivoting our business,

the team that got to witness that and we shared that with, you know, we come out of it so much stronger and you probably feel that too in a sense of, I really feel like my team, they fully see what goes on in the business. They are so invested. They care about it as much as we do because we brought them into what was going on. Yeah. Yeah. realized too I mean a lot of times they can solve the problems better than I can I mean they're on the front lines doing the work every day seeing you know what clients need so that was a part of it we did a long meeting asking the ads team of like what do we need to add so that every client is successful so we never lose a client what would what would be required and we got so much out of that things I would have never thought of yeah that's powerful how big's your team I have

23 employees and then a few contractors so asking them those questions and allowing them like how do they because I actually think this is what I've noticed this in our team they'll look to us sometimes for all of the answers and I'm like you you tell me what do you think they're like you're asking me I'm like yeah you're actually closer to this because when Natalie and I were first growing the business there is between us there isn't a job we haven't done there's a role we have not sat in so for a long long time we were the ones with the best answers however now as the business has grown I'm like you're more aware than I am. What do you think? Yeah. Like how are you like inviting those conversations to them?

Yeah. I mean, it's about the culture, which I've learned the hard way comes from micro actions and just doing that repetitively in meetings, creating the space for collaboration, showing that when someone has an idea and we allow it to be discussed that we actually go implement it and people watch that and over time that starts to become the normal but it doesn't happen overnight it happens in a in small chunks but I have all my team meetings are set up that way bring your ideas bring your problems I'm constantly trying to find problems I think that's like a key too is I'm constantly pushing my team to and I think that's like a key too, is I'm constantly

pushing my team to understand the goal isn't to be perfect. We're never going to be perfect. If we're perfect, we're lying to ourselves because there's problems. So I need you guys to tell me where the problems are and bring it to the meetings. And then we can all figure out how to solve it and figure out what's priority. So we just have our meetings set up structured that way. And then I think seeing the CEO and seeing the leaders respond in a positive way to that, seeing that it's okay to bring mistakes and share mistakes, which is so powerful. I'm like constantly, please tell me your mistakes because five other people are making them. So if you share them, it's going to help everybody. But if they see that positive interaction, they just become more kind of safe doing it I could

not agree more where we do the same we have an all hands meeting every single Tuesday where everyone shares their you know the numbers that they're accountable for and how they're doing and I like we always say to them well look like come and share the bad numbers like this is your time to be like hey I'm really struggling with this number. Like I can't get it to increase. Does anyone else have any ideas? Because like you're not, like when we're growing a business, you're never, all actions are not going to be perfect.

Like it's going to be things that we're trying that are not working. And like you say, share those because there's learnings in that. And that actually is a brilliant and amazing thing versus like coming to the meeting and then pretending everything's rosy. In fact, those are the meetings that frustrate me the most because I know that people not being

real right don't give me all of the roses I don't want the roses the roses are cool they're handling themselves give me the thorns give me the crap that's going wrong like let's get stuck into that that's where the conversation is because that's on how we grow overall. Yeah. So speaking of growing a business, you also mentioned you have three kids. You have grown the business over six years and your eldest is six. So you've been doing this very much in tandem. What are some of the systems in your life that have really allowed you to be able to show up in both ways? Because it's not easy. Yeah, no, it is not easy. One of the biggest things for me is having intentional time for each thing in my life. So

whether that is being with my kids or working or my health, which is also really important to me. So I'm a very disciplined person naturally and very structured. But since the beginning, I've always had like, here's when I work, here's when I'm with my kids. In the very beginning, I didn't have a lot of time to work. So that had to be when my son was napping or at night, I would work really late or I had a little chunk that my husband and I would trade off on. But over time, that's grown with support and a nanny and more help. You have to kind of meet yourself where you're at. So that's one of the biggest things is having that scheduled intentional time where I find that you end up having guilt or you feel just overall bad about trying to balance it all is when you're trying

to do all those things at once. And you're like on the phone answering an email or a voxer. And then your kid's like, mom, mom, like, can you pay attention to me? Then you feel terrible. But if it's very intentional. And so I try, I'm not perfect at this, but leaving work at 4.30, that's when my nanny leaves, and phone away, everything away, and I'm fully present. It is very, very difficult for me to make that transition. I find it way easier on the weekends when I don't get into the work mindset, but getting out of the work mindset is extremely hard. So I'm still working on that. And then also house support and systems. And so I think it's custom to everybody what you need. But for me, cooking is a big one. I don't like to cook. I'm not good at cooking. But health is really important. So when my second

child was born, I was not eating. Because I was like, well, if you don't cook it and put it right in front of me, I'm not going to eat it. And so I was breastfeeding and hungry. And so I got a chef. And I've had one since then who just makes my husband cook dinner, but breakfast and lunch for just me. And people, I think, are like, wow, just for you. Yeah, just for me. They drop off the meals because otherwise I won't eat. And then also a house manager, somebody to help with laundry, pickup, errands, Amazon returns. And so I think it's figuring out, what are you doing that you shouldn't be doing that isn't the best use of your time or that you enjoy? And then how can you get support?

And doing it at the level that you're at. You're not going to tomorrow be able to have a nanny and a chef. I mean, maybe you are. But also, I didn't have that from day one. It was like, what's the biggest thing I could take off my plate that would make the biggest difference? And then getting that support. But I very much believe you can have it all, but you can't do it all.

And so I never try to do it all. And as a result, I'm super healthy. I get great sleep. I can be with my kids and run my business. And that is truly how I do it. Yeah. Every time I share also the concept of having a house manager, I get so many people DMing me on Instagram being like, what's a house manager? How do you set that

person up? And one thing I've found is having systems around having support is really helpful. So I have a lot of Excel sheets that, you know, often we don't delegate things out because it's, you're like, I could have done the thing by the time I delegated out. And this goes for business, life, you name it. If you don't document your processes, you will just keep doing them over and over and over again. And sure, someone might learn and pick it up, but they might leave you eventually and you're back to square one. So one thing we've always done in business is we play book it. We record what we do. We put it into a system. When someone comes on board, here's the system. I've done the do. We put it into a system. When someone comes on board, here's the system. I've done the same thing with my house in a sense of I have Excel sheets and

lists and here's what I need for my house to run on a like really function and run well on a weekly basis. And it's here. Do you have anything like that that's helped you on the personal level? Yeah. So I have a nanny playbook, an executive assistant playbook, house manager playbook. I do the same thing. And I've also found that with things like my nanny documenting like, this is how we like to parent our kids. And this is resources that I would recommend. And so my most recent nanny, she's been with us for about a year and a half started though. I like gave her books and was like, listen to these podcasts because I want to be in alignment with you're with my kids all day, be in alignment with that. So I think kind of just brain dumping down process,

but also like expectations and here's how you're going to succeed in our house. And just being aware, you know, house help is very personal. Like I don't really like people. And so like having people always in my house, like you've got to love them. Yeah. And so you have to have that relationship with them. And I mean, my nanny is actually like one of my best friends because I love her and we've built that relationship but it comes from having clear expectations and I actually do like a monthly self-assessment with my nanny where we say like hey what could we do better for you and

what could you do better and we have that like conversation every month which helps so I agree on systems and then I also agree on just like expectations because especially on the personal side, you want to figure out like, what are your weird things that bug you or are really important to you and translate that over to your support? Because a lot of times they want to do all that, but they have to be told, can't read your mind. So they have to be told what that is and what your expectations are and what's important to you and what to look out for yeah and I love the fact that you mentioned having that conversation the the feedback loop whether it is someone that's supporting you at home or someone you work with

having that open conversation and be willing to have crucial conversations which are not always easy I think is one of the biggest game changers when it comes to having good relationships and getting what you want out of those relationships. Like often, I mean, I definitely think as early founders, if you haven't got the experience of those conversations, you can kind of skirt around it because you don't want to upset anyone. You don't want to make anyone feel bad. But if you don't turn around and say, hey, these are my expectations and you're really missing them right now, not only are you doing yourself a disservice, but you're doing that person a disservice because ultimately, if they keep messing up, they're not going to be with you very long. Yeah. And if you fire them without ever having that conversation, they're going to turn around and say, well, I had no idea that I was messing up this whole time.

Yeah. How did you get good at those conversations? Yeah, I mean, it's definitely challenging. I think it's process around it. It's having the scheduled time. So we do that across my team. We do a self-assessment every month. The manager with the direct report will meet, and they'll do a mix of giving each other feedback.

So the actual employee to their manager will also have the opportunity to give feedback and say, like, here's something you could do better to make my job easier. And then they switch, you know, and give that feedback. So having that schedule, we do it the first week of every month. And having that scheduled time, I find that to be better. Because then you've had that container. And those conversations, I always love them. And so much comes out of them. And you kind of just gauge people's satisfaction, how they're rating themselves and their role. And then also, I mean, I've learned over time a lot from experience, gotten better at it. One of the books I love is Radical

Candor. I don't know if you guys have read that one, but I love how she teaches in there to give feedback like right away. So when something happens just to be like, hey, next time, this is what I would suggest, or this would be a better way to do it. You know, what do you think? Versus waiting like weeks and then they forgot about the thing and it's not relevant to them anymore. So that's another thing that I find. It's all about the delivery too. I'm never giving feedback saying like, you suck. It's always like, I want the same thing you do, which is to do well in your role. And these are the expectations. And then we also have a rule at my team of like, if anybody does have to be let go or fired, they should never be surprised. they are that's on the manager yeah I agree with the conversation should have happened and it

should be no surprise if we get to that point I think that radical candor is actually one of the biggest steps in becoming a good leader I think it's something that actually a lot of people find difficult giving that feedback on the spot and they don't want to hurt people's feelings etc and I agree with you it has to be done like the delivery has to be right as well but for a lot of people that's an uncomfortable thing to get do if they're stepping into that leadership role it's uncomfortable for them to say to someone I'm not happy with the work that you've produced or hey this doesn't align with the values of the company etc but learning that and the ability to have difficult conversations in a polite and respectful manner is a fundamental skill to growing a business and then also inviting help into your house as well.

And I think keeping like the mindset of like you're actually helping that person is the best way to do it. Because I realized, I think as I grew my team, like if I don't say anything, I'm not helping them. You know, even if they end up not being the right fit, they could go on and grow here and learn and take that experience into something that is more the right fit for them. But by not giving feedback, you're just hurting them at the end of the day. And so that's on you as a leader. Like that's your job. That's what you signed up for if you're going to manage people. So I always do keep that in mind too of like, it's actually for the best interest of the person, even if it stings for a second for them or isn't ideal, but it's better for them in the long run.

Totally. And I also think there's something to be said, and maybe you guys will disagree and I'm open to hearing that. I think there's something to be said for even if you don't know how you're going to deliver it and you're not, you don't have the smoothest delivery, you shouldn't let it hold you back from giving feedback. You know, everyone's learning as they go. And I feel like we can sometimes get very caught up in how am I going to say this in a way that doesn't hurt someone's feelings, doesn't do X, Y, Z, that we just overthink it and don't say what we really think. Whereas every single one of us has a very unique expression. And I'm saying this because I wish I told this to my younger self. I constantly got told your delivery's off, your delivery's off. And what I realized is my delivery is my fucking delivery. Like at the end of the day, and it's always going to be refined and I'm going to learn. But at the end of the day, we have to give ourselves permission to just show up authentically and say what's on our mind. And when we do that, it's the most freeing thing,

not just for ourselves, but for the people around us. Cause they're like, you know what? I know where I stand and I really see that person and I either align with that person or I don't. Yeah, no, I totally agree. And I think that there's so many, most of the time I feel like we're not going to have it like presented in our head perfectly and it's okay. And that, you know, we're human and I totally agree. I think being honest is the most important thing that you can do or it will never end well. So it's very important with managing team or having people in your house.

But it also goes, honestly, into personal relationships too and friendships and my husband. So I think radical candor and that way of thinking changed the game. I mean, I send that to my team, all the people, because I think it's such a great way to just live your your life and you're happier too you're not like you don't resentment yeah let's talk about mom guilt because I mean I'm not a mother you're soon to be mother but like this is something I hear a lot about and you know just something you were saying there about being present in the moment and we had um Jimmy this year of Super Coffee on as well. And

he was saying about, you know, be present where your feet are at. And I'm seeing that these common things, but do you ever suffer from mom guilt? Like you started this business when you had your first child. Like how has that journey been for you? Yeah, I definitely do. I mean, I think everybody does too, you know, cause you can't be full-time at both. And that's the reality. And you love your kids so much and you want to be with them all the time. But also I think I realized I would be a terrible mom if that was the case for me. If I was a stay-at-home mom, I'm just not built for it. I'm built to be running a company, using my mind in that way. So I have, I do have times where it's like, oh, especially if I have to travel and leave my kids or there's

like an extra thing and it's out of our routine and I'm missing time with them. That's probably when it hits the most where I regret that. But I think the fact that I've been able to build my business and work from home the whole time, so I was able to breastfeed around the clock whenever they needed on demand, like be there if they need me, I go out and see them at lunch. That's helped a lot because I have never had, you know, okay, you're leaving the house. I think I would really have struggled a lot if that was the case, if I had to actually leave the house and not see them for hours at a time. And so you have to make it work for you. But I think the being present is the biggest thing. Because your kids don't count the hours that you're with them.

But they do notice if you're present. And it's like, okay, mom's playing with us. But she's actually looking at her phone the whole time. They're going to remember that. They're going to notice that. But they're not going to be like, well, mom was with us for six hours today, you know, and five hours yesterday. They don't care.

Like, kids are so present in the moment. There's times where I leave and I'm like, did you even notice I was gone? Like, I missed you the whole time, but they don't even notice. Like, they're so present. They just, as long as they're taken care of in the moment and they're happy and having fun, that's all they care about. So being present is so key with them. Yeah, I love that. Also, I'm like asking this question about mom guilt, but I'm also like, you never ask about dad guilt. No one ever asks about dad guilt, right? Have you ever heard that phrase? I haven't heard that phrase, but from what I, I mean, from what I understand, it's very societal thing. Women are almost brought up hearing about mom guilt and hearing about all of this stuff, but men aren't right and so it's not even something that enters their consciousness yeah they don't even know that they could feel guilty about it right it's just like yeah I wonder if they do and maybe they don't get asked I don't know if they do

this is interesting because I feel like it's almost also biological a little bit because I've talked to like some friends who are male CEOs and I've explained it to them and they're like yeah I don't really feel that yeah I just work when I have to work and it's like that's what I'm supposed to be doing and then I'm with my kids and so it's interesting I'm so curious in 20 years time whether it's even going to be a phrase used like with more women working and more women as breadwinners and more women and like CEO seats etc I don't know know. I'm going to come back to this episode and say what's changed and what's not. Well, and if we think about, too, like,

a long time ago, kids lived in tribes. They weren't just with their mom all day. Like, they were with a bunch of other people, caretakers and stuff, and with family or other people. So it's not even meant to be that we're just, like, hovering over our kid all day long. And we should have.

I think I am a better mom. Whatever that is, having your own identity is so important. And I have also witnessed a lot of people who lose their identity when they have kids. And it's really hard. It's like, who am I after this? Because I had to give up my job or give up this thing. And I gave up all this. That was me. And now who am I? So for me, my business is what allows me to do me every day and use my brain in a way that I was born to do. And I can be a better mom for my kids. And I also love what I'm showing them every day. It's really powerful to show kids what you can go do and create and how hard that I do work. And they see that and they will hopefully, you know, go on to

do what they want. They can be entrepreneurs or not, hoping they are, but not pushing that on them. But seeing, you know, hard work and seeing your mom work hard, I think is a valuable thing for kids too. I think so too. But going back to that conversation about how different it is for men and women, I remember when we got pregnant and we started talking about maternity leave. Obviously, as entrepreneurs, maternity leave is very, very different than if you have a normal job. And we were both talking about it.

And Stephen said, you know, I'm going to take a month. And I'm like, oh, do you feel like that's enough? Then you're going to go back to like working the way you do. And he's like, yep, I'm just going to go back to normal. I was like, oh, it's so interesting. For me, I wasn't willing to say how much time I'm going to take. And like, I'm open to seeing where it takes me and seeing that difference between how we both thought about it,

given he doesn't have to breastfeed, not that I have to, but given that he won't be breastfeeding and things like that, it's still really interesting how we have different mindsets around it. Yeah, and they can go back to just normal and you can't. Yeah. That's the other thing. I was, I had moments like as my kids were young where I was like definitely resentful towards my husband because I'm like

must be nice like must be nice to be able to go I mean even being pregnant yeah I was throwing up and he was sitting working away I'm like must be nice right it's so true but it's just it's yeah it's a reality but yeah like I mean you don't really have your whole life will change like you'll have because of breastfeeding and it's all I mean it's so beautiful and amazing but it's just it's yeah it's a reality but yeah like I mean you don't really have your whole life will change like you'll have because of breastfeeding and it's all I mean it's so beautiful and amazing but it's also equally challenging and a huge shift and change in your life from someone who doesn't have children though I think my perspective is like at least the conversations being had now as in like okay like it's normal like it can be normal to suffer from mom guilt or it you know there's different ways of bringing up children whether you're a stay-at-home mom or you're a

mom who goes to work and has help like all is okay and it's like really interesting for me to hear other people's perspectives yeah like and I think you're right like whatever's right for you is right for you and I think the important thing is there's no judgment on other people you choose what you choose and that's your decision stay out of other people's decisions like that's for them to decide but I think like just the conversation being had so people can see different people's perspectives and know like they're happy with what they choose is important and you just align with your own yeah totally so okay going back to six years ago when you were starting your agency, knowing what you know now, what would you have done differently? Yeah.

So I actually started as a virtual assistant and then I started doing Facebook ads for those clients. And that was like the start of it, which is super interesting. And I can remember listening to like Amy Porterfield's podcast and then it was like five years later, she's our client, which is so crazy when that stuff happens. I'm sure you guys have experienced that. client which is so crazy when that stuff happens I'm sure you guys have experienced that it's always so crazy when that stuff happens I still get so straw struck and pinch myself I'm like how are we yeah I know speaking alongside these people

they're asking for my opinion like it never gets wild it shows you anything is possible though and who knows in the next five years where we'll be um what I would have done different, I think I would have had process sooner in my business and the team building. I think that's where I made the biggest mistakes because, and it's so common, but you get yourself to a place where you're so busy, you have no time to train a team, find a team, hire a team, but you have to have one because you're completely maxed out and going to burn out. And I just had no idea how to do that. So I probably would have found some resources sooner and planned for that sooner. I think I didn't. It's so hard when you start. You don't know where it's going to go. And you're very much trying things like, oh, that's working. We'll do more of that. And at least that was my experience. And so I think looking back, I definitely would have built the team sooner.

And in a more structured way, I probably would have gotten support from somebody who knew what they were doing building a team because I think I would have been able to have a more solid foundation. You had to go back and fix a lot of things because of that. So that's a big one. And then I also think health, balancing my health. I think there was a time period, especially when I had young kids, couldn't afford a lot of help and just didn't, you know, prioritize that. It was,

it went for a year or two where it was like sporadic or it just wasn't a priority. And what I realized is like, there will always be something. There will always be like, well, once I hire that person or once I launched that funnel or once I finish this project then I can work out or take care of myself and the reality is like you have to actually just do it now because there's always going to be something that you're working on or a big project that you need to complete or something that's going on and that's one of the biggest reflections that I hear most founders make as well like and just when we were talking about being guilty like recognizing that rest, you don't need to feel guilty for taking rest.

Actually, that's going to help you perform. It's kind of allowing that, okay, you fill a car up with gas or like plug into the wall and get the electric charger. Oh, I have to charge to be able to go again. Like that's actually part of this whole cycle. That for me has actually been

a really big mindset shift. Being like, oh, there's a full cycle here. There's a full loop and the rest has to be in there to complete that loop versus like I feel like when you're first starting out you're like go go go and then you're like oh I'm gonna get burnt out yeah and like one thing I remember saying to Natalie was like you know we're in this business for the long haul like we're gonna be doing this a long time like you know we can't just have years where we like flat out go because the next year we're going to be doing this a long time like you know we can't just have years where we like flat out go because the next year we're like yeah pick ourselves up like yeah oh actually like this is a marathon not a sprint and just like when you start off a marathon if you come out too strong

out the gate you don't finish it yeah like you have to be pacing yourself and really establishing like what your pace is yeah and not looking at other's lanes, like have your own pace and just like keep to it. Like this is what I know works for me and I'm going to honor that. And that's what's going to help get me over the finish line. Yeah, that's so true. I think also in the beginning, people are always looking to like, who can they replicate? And you lose yourself in that where you're like, oh, well, this person has a successful business, so I'm going to just do what they're doing. But you forget like you have unique skill sets and experience and you're different. And so that's not always the best strategy.

Like, you do have intuition in the beginning and you should listen to that, too, from the beginning, even if you haven't created the success you want yet. And often it's you do what you're doing and you see what someone else is doing. You're like, let me do that as well. And wait, that thing's working, too. so you get so distracted by so many different things yeah it's the biggest mistake I think people make is just you know we talk talk about you know if you're running a race the minute you look to the side to see what someone else is doing you're out of the race yeah you're fucked you're gone give up if you've got to stay focused on where you are going and what you bring to the table,

when you start looking around, like I feel like that's where the biggest mistakes come from. And we've made so many mistakes because we assumed the grass was greener. And you can apply this to everything in life, to your neighbors, your friends, people's stories you watch on Instagram, that entrepreneur you put in a pedestal. The grass is greener on that side. No, the grass is greener

where you water it. It never is. No one has a perfect life. No one has a perfect business. No one has a perfect culture. It doesn't exist. But for some reason, we keep telling ourselves that it does. And that's where the mess comes from. Yeah. And I'll add, there's so many people who think they're the exception to being able to have like three businesses out the gate. Like, well, I can do it. And it's like, if you are not at a seven-figure market, you got one offer, one business, and you're never the unicorn that's going to survive.

Like, I promise you. Yeah. Because it never works. And I did that too, where it was like, I'll have a service and a course and all these things. And because you hear that like, oh, you need all these streams of income. Yeah.

Fed to entrepreneurs still. The average millionaire has 500 streams of income. You're like, that's actually not true. Yeah. And if they have extra, it happened after they already had a multi-seven figure business. So I think that's a big mistake. And I did the same.

I had like a virtual assistant course, I think in the beginning. And I thought like I could do that and grow my business. And I was trying to do all these things and it never works. And you're not an exception 0% of the time. I get asked all the time, should I have two Instagram accounts?

I'm like, how's that one Instagram account going for you? Well, it hasn't made tons of progress. And I'm not like, well, let's stick with that one Instagram account going for you well it hasn't made tons of progress and I'm not like well let's stick with that one yeah but I have a different audience over here and that's your problem yeah you need to get this one off the ground and get it working and get some traction and then when you can maybe put some help in there and someone to take it off your like take the day-to-day off maybe move on to another one but until then stick with it people don't want to do that they don't want to go the distance sometimes yeah I always think about getting the plane off the ground it needs that energy it needs the two pilots right at the very beginning to get

out when you're up in the air yeah you can put it on coast then yeah you know until then yeah until hands on deck until turbulence occurs and you need to take the wheel that's it you just go you go square weather too great analogy that's when that's when really deep though on look at us for the analogies um so one thing that I would love to ask you as well is about any routines and rituals you have things that really help ground you keep you focused on where you're going allow you to have a healthy lifestyle and business what kind of routines and rituals do you have? Yeah, for me, it's the morning routine that is the most important.

And I feel like lately people have been like, you don't need a morning routine. There's like an anti-morning routine movement going. I'm not in that movement. But I swear by it, you know? And if I miss it, I do fail off for the rest of the day. So I get up and walk every morning is my morning routine. Even it's freezing today in Austin.

I still did it outside at like 30 degrees. Yeah, by myself. So my husband takes the kids and he makes them breakfast and he gets them ready for school. That's his contribution in the morning. And I go for a walk 45 minutes. I have the same loop that I do every day. And I listen to an audio book usually during that time. And then I will get ready. I'll do a cold shower every day is like my listen to an audio book usually during that time. And then I will get

ready. I'll do a cold shower every day is like my new thing for the last year. I like to include some form of like meditation. It doesn't always happen because that one is difficult with my kids. With kids, it's really hard. At least in my experience, they wake up with me. So if I get up, they're up. I swear, like even if I get up early. They sense the minute your eyes are open. So sometimes I do meditate with my one-year-old right there, and it is what it is. It's the best I can do that day. And then I take my kids to school as part of my routine, and it's a little bit of a drive, but I actually enjoy it.

I bring my tea. I listen to my audio book in the car. And then I always plan my day. I never start my day without planning out what do I have to do? What's on the agenda? What's my intention for today? Before I dive into email, before I dive into like the reactiveness, I always have that like kind of pre-plan set. And so that routine is really important. And then my workouts. So usually I'll walk and then work out in the afternoon, an additional like weight workout or something. And then I also read in the evening.

Those are kind of like my—as a mom, your time is like the morning, and after they go to bed, you have a little window of time as well. Otherwise, kids are there. And I guess another routine is we always eat dinner as a family. No phones. We always sit down with the kids. We ask them, what's the highlight, low light of your day? And we have that time.

It's like one of my favorite times every day doing that. So I think routine is, we all create routine, whether it's positive or negative routine. But for me, the morning routine, setting up my day and also getting done things that are important to me. Like I do want to take a walk every day and plan my day every day and meditate. If I can get those done in the morning before I dive into work, it just sets me up for a better day and more momentum as I go. I love that so much. So my final question to you is, what does 2022 look like for you? What's your intention for what you're creating this year? Yeah. So my intention, interesting this year, was to have more fun. That's what I want to do this year because last year was so difficult for me. So no fun. Yeah. And just so much pressure and I didn't let myself

have fun and I let that be an excuse to not do things. And so this year I want to travel more. I want to have fun. And kids, they just grow so fast. And so I'm constantly feeling like, a year has gone by again and they're all bigger. So I want to enjoy that more. On the business side, I'm actually creating a software right now. So I did start the second business, but after I was past the million. So we're launching that this year. And then one of the things that we've changed and just recently relaunched is our program. We changed our done for you offer first, and then we created a done with you offer where I'm able to pull basically resources from my agency over to this program so we can help people who can't quite afford an agency yet. So that's a big focus because I think that that will help a lot of people.

I think that businesses, the bar got moved to when you could afford an agency last year and get that full like done for you help. But nobody really wants like a training course on how to run ads or how to market your business because they don't have time like the reason they need help is they don't have time so I created this hybrid where you're getting ad audits and messaging audits and those things so that's a big focus of mine too so intention is fun and play and building a leadership team removing myself more from the day-to-day and overseeing those big projects. I love that. And we're going to put some links in.

So if you go to the description of this episode, we'll add the links in there where people can find you and find out more about both of the programs that you offer. Cool. That support. So thank you so much for this podcast. I feel like I've learned so much. And thank you for sharing all about the balance as well behind the scenes and really what it takes to run a business. Because I know like that's a conversation that we always really value having on here because not enough people really share it.

Yeah. Where is the best place for people to find out more about you? I don't have links, but where's the best place? Yeah, my main website, hirschmarketing.com has got everything. And then I've got a podcast that comes out twice a week. So that's the best place you'll find everything. What's the podcast called? Not for Lazy Marketers. Okay. Yeah. Amazing. Thank you so much, Emily. Yeah. Thank you. If you enjoyed this episode, we would love it if you subscribed and left us a review.

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