the bossbabe podcast - 211. It's Not Too Late To Become An Influencer: Here's The Exact Roadmap You Need with Amy Sangster

Episode Date: March 29, 2022

Amy’s first viral YouTube video, “22 Year Old Girl Buys A Lamborghini Gallardo,” has over 11 million views (and counting) – but that video didn’t happen by accident. Amy worked hard to reverse-engineer content she knew would be popular and engaging. Now, with over 100M views on Youtube, Amy Sangster is sharing her toolkit for viral content creation, navigating judgment and dealing with haters on social media. In this episode, we talk about exactly how she approaches her profession as an influencer, what it’s like to step into the spotlight as an introvert and the tips and tricks she uses to continue honing her skills as she goes about her day-to-day life.  No one is a natural-born influencer. There is a set of skills you can learn and spend your career honing + on this episode – we’re sharing them with you. Whether you’re taking your brand to the next level or are just beginning your journey in the social media space, this is a must-listen episode! Highlights: How Amy went from working in a bank to making a full-time career from social media. The simple mindset shift you can make today to get over caring what other people think. Why starting small is actually a good thing + the power of the “Micro-Influencer”. The ONE thing you need to do every time you are scrolling on social media. Defining the Creator Economy + why it matters for your business. Why the old “Influencer” is dead + what it really means to be a creator. Why learning social media can help you land your dream job. Links: The Influencer Masterclass Join bossbabe CEO, Natalie Ellis on a free, 90-minute training to gain full clarity on your personal brand, learn how to create easy, consistent content, build an audience of raving followers + generate revenue, without the stress. Done For You Viral Reels Take the guesswork out of what to post on social media with 30 days of done-for-you content. Your Personalized Instagram Audit Get BossBabe CEO, Natalie Ellis’s secret system so you can audit your own IG account, figure out what’s working + what’s not and take your account to the next level. Influencer School Reviews Influencer School Our 12-week, guided coaching and certification program designed to help you gain full clarity on your personal brand, learn how to create easy, consistent content, build an audience of engaged followers and create a full-time income from social media. Follow: BossBabe: @bossbabe.inc Natalie Ellis: @iamnatalie Danielle Canty: @daniellecanty Amy Sangster: Website + Instagram

Having influence is really, really powerful. Knowing how to persuade people to take the action that you want them to take, which can be used for good or evil. But knowing how to create the actions that you want in people is an incredibly powerful skill. A boss babe is unapologetically ambitious and paves the way for herself and other women to rise. Keep going and fighting on. She is on a mission to be her best self in all areas. It's just believing in yourself. Confidently stepping outside her comfort zone to create her own

vision of success. Welcome to the Boss Babe podcast, the place where we share with you the real behind the scenes of building successful businesses, achieving big performance and learning how to balance it all. I'm Danielle Canty, co-founder and president of Boss Babe. And today I'm actually interviewing my colleague, Amy Sangster. Now, unlike me, I've always been a little bit shy on social media. She was kind of the complete opposite. She amassed over 100 million views on YouTube. She had a multi-million dollar online education company that served over 80,000 students,

all in her early 20s. So she knows everything there is to know about the creator economy and she is going to be sharing so much with you today. We also are going to be chatting about how she's the co-founder of Unemployed Media which is a media company built to help entrepreneurs specifically share their message and reach a wider audience. She goes into details about the work she does with Mia at boss babe which is so fun and we really break down and get vulnerable about our experiences on social media what that's been like the judgment the heartache all the things so this is gonna be a really good episode and

i'm gonna be honest with you you're probably gonna grab a notepad and pen also because there are loads of hints of tips if you are looking for ground station so uh without further ado Thank you. so amy sangster welcome to the boss Boom Podcast. Thank you. Second time around. Yeah, second time. It was like two years, three years ago, I think you first came on. It's been a while, yeah. We were not working together. We were not working together. We'd only just met, I think, last time. Yeah, we had. And we were talking about your early career. And I'm excited to be diving into all the things today because we have been working together for the last two years.

And on that journey, I've learned a lot about you. you know a lot about me and I know that we have a lot of similarities but we also have a lot of differences and one of the main differences for you and me is like you were kind of like the person who was like the born social media person where I was like please do not make me put my face on this thing. So I want to start our conversations there and what that was really like, why you were attracted to social media from the get-go and what you liked about it and then how you grew. Yeah, I think I never really intended to become an influencer, so to speak, but I was just desperate for any way out of the norm. I worked at a bank. I really didn't want to

continue down that trajectory where I just felt like my days were being spent doing something unfulfilling. And so I was just looking for any way out of that. And I wasn't really attached to any way. I was just desperate for anything. So throughout my travels, I touched on a lot of different things. I had an eBay business. I believe Natalie was the same. It might've been her first business as well, but started on eBay and then kind of transitioned into the trading world. And people saw the success that myself and my partner were having in the trading world. And we started to get these requests for education. And through a series of events, we kind of evolved into online education. And like I said, I never intended to become an influencer, but I realized if I wanted people to know that our educational product existed, I needed an audience.

And it was kind of an unlikely turn of events where my partner at the time was big on YouTube. So he taught me the ropes of YouTube, taught me how to reverse engineer viral content. And through that built a really big audience, over a 100 million people on YouTube that then we found was the perfect place to market our offer to. So it kind of came about through a random series of events, but I ended up with this title of influencer and I love just the creative process. I love creating content and I love connecting with people.

And I think that's a really interesting medium to be able to do it nowadays. Just through utilizing social media, we have the opportunity to connect with anyone just by picking up our phones. And I think that's incredible and it can be used for good. It can be used for bad. And I'm just really excited about all of the good opportunities to come from it. And that's kind of how I got into it in a very high level, very high level way. Yeah. And what I hear is like many people, you had a pain and social media has been a way for you to get out of that. And I think that's what's so amazing about the creative

economy and social media is that, you know, prior to this, starting a business had a really high barrier to entry. It cost a lot in marketing. There's no real forms of free marketing really out there. And so you really have to invest heavily to do these things. And I do think it's been one of the most beautiful things for me to witness is that people really get to change their lives through social media. They really get to build a business through it. And it can be the gateway to so much opportunity. I mean, for me, it's gifted me the experience of moving from the UK and moving to Los Angeles and really changing my personal financial position as well.

But for a lot of people, they have these pains like, yeah, do you know what? I don't like where I'm at. And I'm scared. I'm scared to go onto social media and show up. So did that cross your mind? Because yeah, you got a hundred million views and I just want to understand the mindset for you at that point. Yeah. And I think it's something that no one's really prepared for. No one can prepare you for the amount of judgment that you get when you're in front of an audience

that size. And one of my favorite sayings is you can be the juiciest peach in the world and there are still going to be people who just don't like peaches. I like that. And I learned that very early on. And I think in a way I was beautifully naive because I was kind of thrust into it without really considering. I think the older you get, the more you stop to pause and you really think of like, oh, is this the right thing to do?

But when you're young and you don't have any bad experiences to kind of make you tread carefully, I just like went head on into it. And it was the best experience ever because when you dive in the deep end, you have to learn to swim really, really quickly. And overnight, you know, videos blew up and I was on the homepage of AOL. And I definitely shed a lot of tears when I saw the messages coming in in the morning. I would say 50% people were inspired and motivated by sharing our lives online and what we'd been able to achieve

because we were sharing some pretty triggering content. My first viral video was 22-year-old girl buys Lamborghini, which the title was engineered that way for a reason. And we kind of knew what we were going to get, but obviously I didn't realize how triggered people would get from just me purchasing a car and posting that video online. So I would say like 50% of it was really positive and people were motivated and inspired by what we'd achieved so young. And the other 50% of it was actually really challenging to deal with.

People that just shared a lot of really, really hateful messages purely because of that video. So I think through that experience, my first reaction was, oh, I want to like prove these people wrong. Like I want to let them know it's okay. And I'm a nice person. And like I had this kind of defensive mechanism built in, which I think most people do when they receive any kind of like hate or message online, they want to kind of rebut that and be like, no, but I'm a good person. I'm nice. Please don't hate me. And there's this freedom that comes with just accepting that it's okay for people not to like you. And there's this freedom that comes with just accepting that it's okay for people not to like you and it has nothing to do with you, but actually with them.

I think that's something that I learned probably about a year into it. It took me a little while and just like anything, you have to warm up and you have to get practice. But after a while, I stopped responding to people and I just let go of this responsibility that they had to like me and I just let it all go. And it felt so freeing. And now, like having learned that so young, it's so natural for me to not worry about what people think, to show up and to post and to not worry about the handful of negative things that might come from it.

Because that's going to happen always. No matter how positive your message is, no matter how amazing you are at creating content, someone's always going to have something to say about it. And generally, it's just a reflection of their own insecurities. You're just a mirror for them. Always a reflection of their own, for sure. And I think, you know, it's really freeing, actually, when, I mean, I've just come back from the Hoffman process, and they talk a lot about parental negative love patterns, etc. But one of the things that you really learn there is you aren't responsible for other people's feelings. And I think when you let go of that and assuming you're a good person like

you know we're not talking about like nasty people but you know at the end of the day posting a video online which was no hate crimes towards anyone else it's just you purchasing a car and then witnessing that I do think there's a certain it's hard to do sometimes but it's it's so empowering when you free yourself from trying to please everyone but also I just want to take you back for a second because you said that 50 positive and 50 negative and I'm curious whether actually it was 50 50 or whether it was like 80 good and 20 bad but sometimes the bad ones stay in our memory the most and they seem to scream the loudest

because I feel like that sometimes. You know, I'm super lucky. I've never had 100 million views, a much more audience. But I would say like 99.9% are really positive. And I think that's also the thing. Like a lot of the time is there's so many amazing people out there but

then sometimes the ones that go in those trolls that bit louder a hundred percent and I find that even if it weren't 50 50 it was it was it was a decent amount of hate I'll give you that it was it was a fair bit um but I think that's all you focus on yeah anytime whether it's in work and you're just focusing if people are giving you feedback and you focus on the one person who has like a suggestion about your work, you focus on that versus all the praise you get. And it's just so natural for our minds to do that because we're just in a state of surviving. Like we just want to know that we're safe and loved always. And it's really, really not natural to put yourself out to an audience of that many people. I was watching The Social Dilemma. Have you seen that? Oh yes. No, I have seen that one, yeah, yeah. And it's really interesting. It's saying out like our brains are not wired

to do these things. And the only way that we develop new skills or new talents is going through them. So that's why I say it's a blessing that I went through it, but you have to be able to break through that barrier. And I think it's true of anything. When you're starting anything new, you have to be able to break through not only your self-judgment, but the judgment of others and just keep going in spite of that. And it's something we talk about often in Influencer School, which I'm sure we'll talk about, is just putting yourself through that and going through it. The only way over is through. Feel the fear and do it anyway. They sound like nice buzzwords, but they're just really, really true. You have to just put yourself in that situation and not let the emotional response stop you from taking action, but work through it. Be

like, okay, I understand this doesn't feel good right now, but it will if I just keep going, because I'm going to learn to deal with it better. I think that's really true. And also, I think as well, a lot of people listening to this, and we're really talking about this topic now about how social media has the benefit to change your life and how you can really leverage it to grow businesses and create financial freedom. And I think it's really important to recognize that, you know, if you're listening to this and you're wanting to achieve that, you have to look at social media as part of your job and as part of a skill set, which you are there to hone. And it might feel like oh my goodness like

everyone else is looking at me and judging me and all of these things but really like you're judging yourself yeah and like letting go of that is really really crucial to be able to grow up on social media and I I might take myself back to um 2018 when Natalie and I first found a boss babe and I was so terrified of putting my face on social media like I am not joking I remember my first Facebook live I was in and out before anyone could even come online and then also I remember we have a society like you know the society on membership for female entrepreneurs it's one of our core products at the time. And I organized us to have this success kit all around, um, show up and on showing up on social media for 30 days so that I would do it because I would never put my face on social media because I was scared of judgment of others. But when I did the work and realized what I was actually worried

about and scared of, I think that's the first hurdle that a lot of people need to overcome is like you have the choice to feel judged or not to feel judged because actually you think it's people judging you but it's you judging yourself and most people I know who aren't affected by negative comments are because the people that don't judge themselves on those negative comments whereas sometimes you know when you get those, like you said, you just shared someone giving you feedback on work, if it hits something that you are sensitive to, it hurts. But if it kind of hits something, you're like, that's a load of rubbish. Like, I'm not even going to believe that. It's easier to repel. So I think it's like that whole, just knowing it, owning it. And just like you said, moving through it is really important. Yeah. I mean, the only way that we get better at anything is through practice. How can you expect

for something to feel natural and comfortable? If it's the first time you're doing it, literally whatever it is, it's just never going to happen. It's an unrealistic expectation. But people seem to have that expectation for social media of themselves or other people of them where the first post I do, it's going to go viral or the first time I show up, it's going to feel so great. No, the first 10 or a hundred times, it's probably going to feel really weird and uncomfortable. But the more you do it, the better you get. You know, we recently, you had Maria Menounos in the society, one of the best interviewers in the world. And we were talking to her about the fact that, you know, this has only come through

what, 10, 20 years of practice. That's how she got there. But people only see the accolades. They only see the end product and they don't see all the times that she shared with us where she was nervous to do an interview or she didn't want to do it, or she was so scared and she put so much time preparing and they just see the polished end result. And that's so true of social media too. You know, like everyone sees the end result. They don't see the hundred reels that you batched beforehand that completely sucked. And if you really admire anyone, I encourage you to scroll back on their feed. Like go back to the very first post.

Please don't do it to me, but do it to someone else. Yeah, not us. But go and look at that and it'll make you feel a whole lot more confident. Like it's actually really interesting starting on YouTube so young, you have this library of content. And not only is it interesting because you can see how you've grown from 10 years ago now, the whole world can see how you've grown as well, but it helps you kind of just benchmark. And we were, you know, in the society recently,

and we were looking at some of the first videos that you had made. And even in three years, the difference was wild. And if you didn't give yourself permission to show up and maybe not feel so confident or maybe not be perfect in the beginning, that product wouldn't exist. All the women's lives within it wouldn't have been changed because you never would have showed up. And same thing, if I never hit upload on that video, I mean, we served 80,000 students in that business. We made multiple millions of dollars. We helped many, many people quit their jobs. Never would have happened if the fear of judgment got in the way.

And that would have been actually incredibly selfish of me to kind of keep that from happening because of an emotion that I may have felt that might have felt bad for a moment, you know? I think it's really important to maintain a beginner mindset like nowadays I'm so lucky and fortunate and honored to be able to interview people at the top of their game Maria Menounos being one Jamie Kern Lima fan at Cosmetics Tony Robbins we've had in the podcast like crazy impressive people but every single one of them always brings me back to that that they were beginners too like you hear the story of Jamie like writing her first business plan on her honeymoon no idea what she was going to go on and create and I think like you know unfortunately sometimes we get lost in that

we get in the cycles of comparison like oh my goodness I'm never going to have four million followers because I only have 400 now I'm never going to be able to do that well you won't be able to do it if you don't start posting and just like you're saying those people who now have 4 million or whatever they had they started somewhere and you've got to start somewhere and be okay with that and that beginner mindset I see is always present with the most successful people I know they're not scared to go back to the beginning. And I think that actually is attributed to a lot of their success in many ways. Yeah. I think the most successful people that I've met are just masters of sitting in discomfort and being okay with it. And so much

so that they actually seek it out. They're not comfortable not having discomfort. They actually seek out, whether it's ice baths or silent retreats, they seek out these experiences so that they can get used to that feeling so that they can show up in whatever capacity they need to and be in discomfort in their daily jobs and succeed at them. Because our brains, again, they're not wired to do that. It's a practice and we have to teach them to be able to do that. So I think it's like, what can you do in your life to get your brain used to just being uncomfortable? Maybe for someone that's not going to speak to, you know, 100 million people all at once, maybe it's just showing up and doing a live one day. Or maybe like an exercise that we help

people do all the time is just open your laptop and sit and talk to your laptop camera about whatever it is, whatever you feel comfortable speaking about for 10 minutes a day. That probably will be pretty easy. Watching it back and listening to that internal chatter that comes up when you're watching it back, that's the really hard part because you're going to hear all these things. And being in the media business, I've watched myself speak so many times. And it's funny, I think the first two to five years, you're like, oh God, that's what my hair looks like. That's what I sound like. That's what I look like on camera. And then years five to seven, you kind I look like on camera. And then like years like five to seven,

you kind of get comfortable with it. And then like the later stage, you're just so used to it that you don't even think about your hair and it becomes more about what you're saying and who you're connecting with and your message than you. But the only way over is through.

And I think going back to that point, you have to really remember who you're doing it for and why you're doing it. And if you're doing it for the wrong reasons, if you're doing it to serve your ego and you're not actually thinking about your audience, that fear will always get in the way. But if you have a strong why and you're trying to connect with an audience, you're trying to share a really important message, something that's close to your heart, something that can help people, whether it's through

education or entertainment, something that you're passionate about, not just focusing on followers, you'll be able to push through because you have an external motivation. It's not just you needing those followers that's going to get you out of bed in the morning. It's the other people that need you to show up and share your message. I'm curious as to what your why was because I know that mine, the reason I started showing up on social media more was because I realized how much impact that was having in the society as a community. And when I was showing up and talking about my fears, they were starting to overcome theirs. And then it became like, oh, I have to do this because it's really helpful. And so many people are getting benefits. So I'm curious as to when you went into that YouTube

era initially, like what was the motivation then? I think I attribute a lot of the initial motivation, the introduction to my previous partner who got me into it. But the deeper why I became, I was desperate, like I said, for a way out of traditional nine to five work that was completely unfulfilling. And I found that way. And once I found it, I wanted to shout it from the rooftops. I wanted everyone to know that it was possible. And we had so much demand and people wanting to know, and we were teaching these people and it was having a difference in their life and I was seeing their lives change too. And it was kind of a flow on effective confidence. The more we helped people, the more I wanted to share that message because the more impact I saw it was having and the more fulfilled I became. And yeah, I just wanted to continue to share that message. And I really don't want people to waste their lives doing things that they don't love. Like I think the time that we have here on earth

is so incredibly short. And I think that we're fed by traditional education, which has its place and it has all these amazing qualities to it, but it also has these limitations to it. And one of those is that we're fed the lie that there is one path. And nowadays, thankfully with social media, with the internet, that's all changing with the society, with products that Boss Baby makes as well, that is all changing.

And I think people are a little bit more aware that there are alternatives, but especially 10 years ago, that was not the case. People were only just getting exposed to it. So it was really inspiring for me to be able to be a catalyst for change for other people and say, hey, no, there's another way. We don't have to do it like this because I was so miserable. I was sitting at a bank job drinking seven coffees a day because it was the only thing that got me through it. I was just dreading the thought that the rest of my life would be like that. I didn't want that for me, and I certainly don't want it for other people. So I think that why is still my why today. Like I want people to know that there are alternatives,

that there are other options, that you don't have to settle for what we think we have to do just to make ends meet. There's more to life than all of that. Totally. I'm so excited to come back to that in a few moments. But before we kind of segue that direction direction I want to talk to you about um putting like your lifestyle on social media because you know you did go go viral via you know 22 year old buys a lamborghini and you have shared a lot about your life on social media too um in your opinion is that necessary like to be an influencer or to grow a social media following these days? Do you have to open up about everything? No, not at all. And I think that's one of the most common things that people struggle with is, do I have to share every intimate detail of my life

with my followers? Absolutely not. And I think it really comes down to knowing your niche and knowing your value. Your content is really just a product. So what value does your product provide to your audience? If it's entertainment and lifestyle is, you know, some of that value, then yes, it may be necessary for you to actually share those things. But there are so many other ways and so many people keep a lot of the details of their private lives private because they show up in an educational format. They're sharing helpful tips to their audience. They're not necessarily needing to really share any details of their life, but they're focusing on the value that their audience gets. So if you're inclined that way and you want to share your life, I think it's incredibly powerful because people do connect

with stories. I shared a lot of my story, the good, the bad, the challenging, the ugly online. And I think because people saw me go through that all, it was relatable. But you certainly don't have to share everything. I think it's just knowing your value. Again, it comes back to product. Like, what is the value of your content? Is it going to include sharing those details? Does it include sharing your personal life? Are you showing up as a personal brand? Or are you maybe showing up as a brand account like boss babe are you maybe showing up as an educator solely like how are you showing up and what is that value of that content doesn't need to be one way I think that's really powerful actually just you talking about content in that way like like you can have a personal brand content and you can also have a branded content and they are decisions that you get to make so I think sometimes feel like a lot of people feel this barrier to growing on social media because they see it as just influencers and influencers are pretty they put their butts out you know we've all seen them like those were the influence that there were influence have really had a bad rep for a long time because it was like you know the same type of person not

saying anything a derogatory about that type of person who grew because they were clearly leading with value as well and that's not for everyone yeah and I think now we're kind of more in the era around like well actually influence comes in all shapes of form. And what does that look like? So I'm curious as to your perspective. And, you know, we do have a program called Influencer School, and we called it that for a very particular reason. Yeah. So you go first, and then I'll loop back around with some of my opinions on this. Yeah. And I think influencer does get a bad rap. You know, the term influencer, we even talked about, you know, do we call this product Influencer School because of that reputation that that name has. But if I really go back to what the heart of influence is, it's the ability to influence people. It's the ability to have an effect on their lives. And, you know, unfortunately, there is that association with just, you know, aesthetically pleasing people, which power to you. I support that as well. But that's one way.

Nowadays, there's so many different ways that you can become an influencer. And really, I think it's modern day online marketing. Being an influencer is just being a marketer. There's a lot of respect that people give to people that maybe work in the corporate world that say, oh, I'm in marketing. But if you say, oh, I'm an influencer,

then it appears very different and there's this different perception of what you do. But really, it's the same thing. Marketing to me is really just the ability to attract attention, hold that attention, and then direct that attention to an offer, whether that's a product or service, an affiliate offer, a subscription, even just exclusive content, whatever that looks like, whatever the monetization route is, that's what old marketing is. And modern day online marketing is just using social media as the medium to do that. So again, if you generate influence, it's only because you're an expert in your niche or a really good entertainer in your niche. You know how to attract that attention

through using content formats, hold that attention through making it interesting or providing value, and then direct that attention somewhere. And I think influencers today are some of the most powerful people on earth. You know, even big corporate companies, they're not paying their marketing department. The marketing department is paying influencers to promote their corporate companies.

So if you really kind of look at it that way, I think influencers have a lot more power and, you know, are a lot smarter than people give them credit for because there's so much work you know how much work goes into creating content of content and like you say to attract and keep that attention um is really really a skill and an art form and you know just why we've been having this conversation that's why I love this podcast so much is because I have like these epiphanies and like I think sometimes like you know we live

in LA there's a lot of actors and actresses and just while we were chatting about this and you know we're talking about skill sets and growing skill sets I'm like I just realized like as an actor actress you hone that skill set you go to acting classes you go to schools you learn before you go on stage and camera and I think sometimes people expect so much of it just because they have this access in their pocket and they can just grab it out and do it and it isn't the fingertips of every single one of us if you have a phone um there's this expectation that you have to be amazing at it versus it being a learned skill set because that is a learned skill set and creating content like we talk about the four types of content too. Like the four E's I've spoken to,

I did a podcast on this recently, which is like, you know, is it education content? Is it a content that creates emotion and gets them to feel something? Is it getting people to unify over economy? Like there's all these different types. Or like you say, is it pure entertainment? There's all these different types of content, but until you start learning that and dissecting it,

sometimes it can be really intimidating to come into but actually when you break it down it's like oh this makes sense yeah there's a roadmap here I can learn this skill a hundred percent you know blessing and the time to learn it yeah I think you just need someone to explain it to you just like anything right if you come into any new skill whatever it is there's going to be frameworks underpinning all of it that you have no awareness of. You're just going to see the end product. And that might be really intimidating because the end product is generally shiny and pretty and beautiful and has all these numbers next to it. But no one really knows the planning. They don't see the documents. They don't see the reels preparation that goes behind the scenes. They don't see all of the content meetings

within Boss Babe that happen to produce the level of content that they do. So I think just like anything, you just need those frameworks. You just need to understand it so that you break down that barrier to entry. And just like anything, once you understand it, then you feel a whole lot more confident. When you're confident, then you can be consistent. So like you said, it's so easy for people to think like, oh, I should just be a natural at this because we have it in our pockets. it doesn't work that way it would be nice if it did right do you see yourself as an influencer would you describe yourself as an influencer let's take a quick pause to talk about my new favorite all-in-one platform Kajabi you know I've been singing their

praises lately because they have helped our business run so much smoother and with way less complexity which I love not to mention our team couldn't be happier because now everything is in one place so it makes collecting data, creating pages, collecting payment, all the things so much simpler. One of our mottos at Boss Babe is simplify to amplify and Kajabi has really helped us do that this year. So of course I needed to share it here with you. It's the perfect time of year to do a bit of spring cleaning in your business, you know, get rid of the complexity and instead really focus on getting organized and making things as smooth as possible. I definitely recommend Kajabi

to all of my clients and students. So if you're listening and haven't checked out Kajabi yet, now is the perfect time to do so because they are offering boss babe listeners a 30-day free trial go to kajabi.com slash boss babe to claim your 30-day free trial that's kajabi.com slash boss babe i guess you could call me an influencer i influenced people to buy these things i think i was influenced to buy the lanterns when i came around and i saw them on your she did like my lanterns I'll send you the affiliate link. No, I mean, I think definitely, like I know how to create influence.

I do it for myself and I do it for other companies, helping them share their message through our media company. So yeah, I mean, 100%, I'm an influencer, but I don't think I'm the influencer in the traditional sense, you know, where people perceive it as just a lifestyle thing anymore. I would say it's much more marketing-based and education and value-based versus just, you know, being a lifestyle influencer,

which, again, is a very viable way of being an influencer. They make a lot of money. They have a lot of impact. And there's no hate whatsoever on lifestyle influencers. But I think… It's an amazing career. Yeah. It's just not the only way. It's not the only thing. I think that's amazing career yeah it's just not the

only way it's not the only thing I think that's the key thing isn't it it's like sometimes it gets pigeonholed and it doesn't need to be there is so much scope if you are someone who creates content and can persuade someone who watches that to act on it then you're an influencer also you're an influencer even if like say you didn't have a social media account in it, then you're an influencer. Also, you're an influencer, even if like, say you didn't even have a social media account in some ways and you're going to work and you're influencing on what people do around you. Like there's all types of influence. And I think that's just an empowering way of looking at it.

Like, oh, actually I do have influence and I get to transform it into this medium. Because that's also a part as well. Let's talk about the different mediums. Let's go for it. You grew on YouTube. I did. Now you're more Instagram based, less on YouTube. What are you feeling about the two?

Now I'm more using that skill in a business sense to support other people and sharing their message. So unfortunately, the Amy Sangster content has taken a backseat in that. I would love to show up full time on YouTube, but just don't have capacity to. It is something that you have to be consistent with. Just like anything, consistency is really key. And I know that my limitation right now is time. I'm growing two companies at the moment. So I don't have capacity to show up in YouTube despite wanting to. So that's why Instagram has been a really nice creative outlet. Because while I'm focusing on business things during the day, I still have this creative

side that needs to be fulfilled. And I do want to connect with an audience. And I want to share the message still because that why still exists. It's so easy just to get on Reels nowadays. And the reach that you have with Reels is similar to that of YouTube. The reason that I love YouTube so much was because of the power to be suggested and recommended, because of the power to reach a wider audience. Whereas Instagram, typically, before Reels came out,

for me, it was a little bit more limited in its capacity. And also, I love video content. It's kind of my thing. So it was a little bit more limited there. But now with Reels, it's so easy to reach a wider audience. It's so easy to get your phone out. And I say this tentatively because I don't want people to think it's easy. It's easy for me because I've been doing it for 10 years.

It might not be as easy for someone that's just starting out, but it's pretty quick. It's logistically easy. It is logistically easy. I would say it's that. It's logistically easy. You do not need all this scary tech, which I feel like is a little intimidating.

100%. You can just grab your phone and that's the beauty of it. It's logistically easy. easy you do not need all this scary tech which I feel like is a little intimidating 100% like you can just grab your phone and that that's the beauty of it it's logistically easy so you just need to focus on the actual content that you're creating which I believe everyone has the power to do like you say if they have that framework if they follow it then it's actually can become easy for them but when you're trying to figure it out on your own quite often, like then it's becomes daunting, but there is a lot that you can do. So let's go back.

You know, you mentioned it earlier to attract, hold and direct. Yes. Let's dive into those a little bit more because I love on this podcast that we get into like the nitty gritty. I feel like you listen to a lot of podcasts and you don't get all the takeaways.

So I want to like really break those down for people who are listening. Okay. I'm hearing it's logistically easy. I want to create some content now. But how? Okay. Well, I go back to those three things because I think no matter what content format, whether it's YouTube, whether it's an email, anything that you're putting out online, a reel, a thread on Instagram, The first thing is being able to attract attention. You can have the most amazing piece of content with the most amazing message, but if you don't package it in a way that actually attracts attention, no one's going to see

it. And what I mean by that is, let's say an email, for example. You could have this incredible email written. If you don't have a subject line that allows people to actually get their attention, click on that email and open it, that email is worthless. So the ability to attract via a hook, and a hook can be the first three seconds of a reel, it can be the first 10 seconds of a YouTube video, including the title and the thumbnail. In an email, it can be the subject line. What is that first thing that gets someone's attention? Now we're so busy nowadays, we're scrolling on different apps. We've got notifications everywhere. We've got busy lives. So what is that thing that actually takes someone a second to pause and go, oh, I want to look at this content. I want to open this email. I want to stop scrolling on Instagram and actually consume this. Even if it's only a 10 second piece

of content, you have to be a master of just getting people to stop for a second and go, oh, that's piqued my interest. And typically, we say an open loop. You want to open that loop in someone's mind of like, oh, there's an intrigue factor here. I need to close this loop. I need to open this email, get the information so I can close the loop. So let's say, for instance... Yeah, let's give some examples. So let's say, for instance, in an email, let's say I wanted to talk about three finance principles that'll change your life I could title that email and I could be like open a savings account uh invest in index funds and you know I could just literally name them out that wouldn't really create any kind of intrigue with someone like financial tips three financial tips that would be that would be a bad one it would be it would be okay but I think we could do a little better.

Yeah, we can do better in this day and age. 100%. So three unexpected finance tips that changed my life or something like that, right? Like, you put me on the spot here a little bit. But I would think really intentionally about like, okay, who is the person that I'm trying to connect with first and foremost? Because if you try and connect with everyone, you're going to connect with no one. So who is this ideal person that I'm trying to connect with? For me, it would you try and connect with everyone, you're going to connect with no one. So who is this ideal person that I'm trying to

connect with? For me, it would be someone interested in finance if I'm writing an email like that. So I would get really, really granular and dive into what does this person care about? What would get their attention? What kind of content are they consuming? What's happening in pop culture right now? Could I reference something? Let's say, for instance, there had just been an interest rate hike or something like that, or inflation. Let's use that one because right now inflation's at an all-time high. That's something that is in people's awareness before I've even sent them an email, created a piece of content, so they know about that. So if I just tap into that, that could get their attention. Three things you need to know about the latest inflation rate hike that will change your life. Something like that. Obviously, it needs massaging, right? But you're playing into

things that are already in their awareness, something that they care about. Maybe if it's wealth that they're trying to generate, I would say like three things that helped me generate seven figures by 22. What is that thing that they care about and how can I open that loop in their mind and not just give them all the answers straight up a lot of the time I see people titling YouTube videos literally the exact answer to the question so it'll be like uh the one coaching trick that will change your life sales or something like that and they give you the answer literally in the title or the thumbnail no you have to open that loop and make people watch the content make people consume the content to get that answer.

And sometimes it's like getting them to realize why they need to know that thing in the first place, right? 100%. So it's like, here's an example, like a food one, like why you need to replace your vegetable oil, right? And you would need to educate them on that why. Or like, so here's why. Maybe the title would be something like,

why you should buy extra virgin olive oil, right? But if you just say, oh, this is the reason, then it doesn't have as much, like it doesn't hit home as much as, okay, well, these oils are really bad for you. And that's why then you should replace. So it's kind of like taking them through that whole cycle, which I feel like sometimes,

the one thing I think is really interesting when people create content is they forget to put themselves in the other person's shoes. So I think that's a really good skill set that I've noticed particularly that you have. Thank you. And I'm really curious like how you do that

in the sense of like, do you read books or is there something like you study other people? Like, how do you really think, oh, like this is gonna, people are gonna relate to this. This is gonna hit home to them. I think it's a combination of things. First and foremost, just experience and practice.

The more you do anything, the better you're gonna become at it. Oh, look at that. You gotta start somewhere. I got no novel advice on that one, unfortunately. However, I would say to consume like a creator, not a consumer. So whenever I consume any piece of content,

whether it's an ad that gets my attention, whether it's an email that I open, whether it's a YouTube video that I click on when I open Apple TV and it's there, and I'm like, ooh, I want to click on that one. I question it. I'm like, why did I do that? What about this made me do that? Was it the thumbnail? Was it the title? How did they create this content in a way that

got my attention? Because I'm aware of what they're doing and it still got my attention. If I buy something on an ad, I'm like, how did they do that? Then I'll benchmark it. I have a whole saved folder of benchmark content where I'm like, this was really great content. I want to analyze it and break it down. And so I have a notes app where I'll put in the piece of content and I'll literally like analyze it next to it. So headline, open to loop, you know, preview text, you know, and really analyze

and break down how to do it. And then you can use that format to really replicate and try it on your own content. So let's bring that back to let's say Instagram for a second. So if someone's like, oh, and we talk about this

in influencer school. So if someone is like, oh, and we talk about this in influencer school. So if someone is like, I want to create some content that people are going to engage with and I would love it to go viral. Yeah. What you're saying, what we talk about is actually go

and don't consume the viral content that you're getting shown all the time and just look at it as a consumer. Go and analyze it. Go like, why is this doing? So where is the intrigue what is relatable is this someone's saying the thing that everyone else wants to say and they don't like what about that and I think that's a really good perspective and good thing to point out because it is a very

different mindset going into it like you're not going on your Instagram account just like scroll and see what's happening you know okay I'm going on my Instagram account. Oh, that's viral. How, what made this go viral? And how can I replicate it? Yep. I think it's really, really important to audit other people's content, audit your own content. And in fact, I think Natalie just put together

a whole process on how to audit your own Instagram account. Maybe you can link it in the show notes for people to grab that. Yeah, maybe we can. Maybe you could. Maybe you could do something like that. But I think it's so important to really reflect. Like if a piece of content does well, whether it's your own or someone else's, ask why, you know, break it down.

And oftentimes you'll see most platforms nowadays, whether it's TikTok, Instagram, YouTube, they're all favoring video content. So we can just look at video content for a second and go, what would that platform, if I'm Instagram, I'm YouTube, or I'm TikTok, what would I create an algorithm to reward? Because these algorithms are really just Instagram, YouTube, and TikTok saying, I want to reward people taking the actions that we want them to take. So if I put myself in the shoes of Zuck at Instagram or Rob Missouri at Instagram, I would say, okay, what would I reward? I actually want to reward people staying on this platform. I want to reward creators who are holding people on the platform longer. Therefore, I know that as a creator, I have to do that job really well.

And if I do that, then I'll get algorithmic favor and Instagram will like me and promote my videos to more people. So to strip that back and make it more simple, if you can make people watch your reels longer and create videos that hold people's attention longer versus just scrolling straight past them, you're in a good place. So then I think, okay, well, how do I actually go about that? Again, I'm not going to give everyone

the information right off the bat. The first thing they see in my reel is all the information right away. I'm going to hook them. Maybe it's three lies you've been told about money. And then I'm going to have to wait. I'm going to make them wait until the end of that video to get the three lies. Or I'm going to say, read the caption.

And then they're going to have to stay on that piece of content even longer to read the caption. All of this Instagram's logging. So Instagram knows how long people are looking at your content. So if you become a master of holding that attention, the platforms are going to reward you and push that content out to more people. That's so important. And I think it just like, I just feel like a lot of people find growing on Instagram and growing on social media intimidating. And then I also think what happens is a lot of people start, they try, and then they give up. And what do you think are some of the reasons that people give up?

I think first and foremost, letting fear get in the way, you know, letting a negative result get in the way, letting failure tell them that they're not good enough and they should just stop because I want, there's pain there and I need to move away from it. That's what our brains are wired to do. If there's pain, move away. It's built to help us survive. It's not built to help us thrive. As corny as it sounds, it's very, very true. And you know this. So being able to push through discomfort, first and foremost of going,

okay, I put this reel out and no one's really engaging with it, doesn't mean I'm going to quit. It means I'm going to analyze that piece of content, go, why didn't it connect? Why didn't people like this? Try again the next day, do better. It's something we say in Influences School all the time

is 1% better every day. It doesn't have to go zero to 100. That's the next day. Do better. Something we say in Influences School all the time is 1% better every day. It doesn't have to go 0 to 100. That's what people expect. And they hold themselves to this standard. Then when they don't meet it, they just feel defeated. And again, anything that doesn't feel good, we'll naturally move away from. So if you learn to give yourself a little grace and say, you know what? I'm just going to aim for 1% better. Maybe I'm just going to share a little bit more value today. Maybe I'm just going to show up a little bit more confidently. Maybe I'm going to create one extra piece of content today. What is that little incremental improvement that's going to add up over the long term that's going to help you see results? And focus on that versus the amount of views that

you get, the engagement that you get, maybe the response that you get from your family and friends. I know that's a big one for people when they stop posting and showing up like an influencer, whether that's an educator or an entertainer, is like, oh, it's really awkward. My family and friends are watching this. My grandma is watching this and I feel really uncomfortable about it. And like you said before, I think it's knowing that it's a part of your job and treating it that way for you to show up in that capacity and show up not for yourself but for other people that's a complete reframe that helps you push through those times where you're like oh want to give up didn't feel very good today you can actually connect back to that why and to those people that you're doing

it for and just give yourself grace in the process it's going to take time but you'll never get to that place that you want to be if you don't allow yourself to show up and feel a little bit uncomfortable from time to time and probably likely every single day to get to ultimately get that result that you want I think it comes down to like judgment you know I think like we judge ourselves so harshly at times like sometimes I mean I'm post Hoffman now and again I will do a podcast on this you guys I want to know at all Hoffman thing you're on about um but basically like so you go into a lot of your patterns that are like unconscious in your head over and over again and I just realized I'm like wow I say some really awful things to myself in my head which I would never say to somebody else ever a hundred percent so like being really aware of that, I think is really powerful.

And a big thing I think is, I honestly don't think the biggest challenge for a lot of people starting to grow on social media is necessarily all about skills. I think the biggest hurdle is mindset, which we've seen in people with influence to school. I think that's why we've had so many amazing results because we first start with mindset before we go anywhere. Oh yeah, we don't let them create a piece of content until they've done the work.

It's like a little Minnie Hoffman within a influence of school. But you're right. People need to get out of their own way if they want to achieve anything in life. I think we hold ourselves back so incredibly much. And I'm the same way. You know me, I'm a perfectionist. Yeah, you're hard on yourself too.

Really hard on myself. And I think in some ways it's a good thing and it's positive to have a high standard and to strive for something more. But we also need to recognize when that becomes detrimental. And I think it becomes detrimental when, A, if you never give yourself credit for anything, then even if you never give yourself credit for anything, then even if you have all the amazing results, it's not going to feel so great. But also if it's stopping you from showing up to do the thing because you're saying it's not good enough,

it's not good enough, that's when then it becomes detrimental as well. So yeah, I think it's really, really crucial to understand your patterns, understand what it is that you're moving away from. In the past, was it, you know, you got made fun of at school or like all these little things in our childhood that affected us that whenever we're reminded of them in adulthood, that we move away from. And social

media will trigger that for sure. Cause it is kind of like an adult playground. Yeah. Can I ask you a personal question? Go for it. How have you judged yourself on social media? Like, what has been the hurdle for you? And maybe it's not so like prevalent for you now, but like in the past. I think, and it still is prevalent, but I think I'm a lot kinder to myself through having done a lot of work. So even though I say it's easy for me now, it's not that it's completely frictionless. There is still definitely friction, but I think one of's completely frictionless. There is still definitely friction. But I think one of the biggest ways that I've judged myself definitely in the past was, you know, I'm a female.

So we care about what we look like, right? So I would see, you know, certain angles of myself or even just the style of content that I was creating. Like, I would like to think that I have changed a lot and learned a lot and I have a lot more value to share with the world nowadays just through experiences that I was creating, like I would like to think that I've changed a lot and learned a lot. And I have a lot more value to share with the world nowadays, just through experiences that I've had. But even just looking back on, you know, like some of that content can be perceived as very material and materialistic. And I think I've judged that in the past as well. And it's been a beautiful kind of coming together and recognizing like, no, that's all part of the journey. And I'm actually really glad that especially after having lost my partner, I have

this memory log of kind of every stage of my life. And I can look back on that person and give myself grace and go, oh, you know, she was young and she was figuring it out. But like, that's pretty cool. She was putting herself out there anyway. But there is certainly part of me that, you know, does have to come to terms with like, wow, I really showed up like that when I was young and it would be easy for me to slip into that mindset of being judgmental of that. But now I've kind of reframed that to be like, oh, how cool that I was actually just showing up and didn't have a care in the world. And, you know, through doing that, the amount of positive impact that had, whether it's cringey

to me now to look at or not, 80,000 people's lives were changed through doing that. Millions of dollars were made through doing that. It changed my life and my business partner's life hugely doing that. But if I didn't get over that self-judgment and that cringe factor, that never, ever would have happened. I think yeah there's there's been numerous ways I think I judge myself for not showing up enough nowadays you know running two businesses is a lot um and I judge myself for not doing enough and showing up enough and answering enough and responding enough and being available I think that's so common right we're all judging ourselves for not being enough all the time I know that uh you'll get into it in the Hoffman episode I'm sure but I know that you just went through a lot of

that as well I think we we share that and I I'm glad you're opening up about this because I think it's really important that sometimes you think that oh when I get there I'll do this when you know I won't feel like this after I've done 100 videos or 200 whatever that is right but I think it's a really dangerous thing to put emotions and feelings and patterns on destinations yeah um like oh I'll be happy when I'll be happy when's a big one and I I think it's just really important for people to understand that no matter where you are on your journey these things will sometimes pop up, but they become less. They become less because you work through them or you know the way over them much easier.

Like, oh, I've been here. I've got a road going over this one. A hundred percent. I just think mental health is really important to talk about with social media and business. Yeah. Because I never want people to look and think, yeah, me and Amy feel great all the time. We have breakdowns on the rig. Oh, yeah.

Totally. You called me last week with one, in fact. Yeah, I literally did, didn't I? It was so true. And I think that's a powerful thing. Just be open about that and share that. Yeah, I was really judging myself. I actually thought about that at Hoffman.

Oh, yeah. So, and I do think. Oh yeah, you had to fill me in. So, and I do think that's really, really powerful to just own. And when you start owning all your feelings, that's the biggest freedom I felt recently is owning my feelings. Oh, I own that I was upset. I own that I was happy. I also know that I was, I own that I was frustrated. I also own that I was excited.

Like all the good emotions and the bad emotions they're not bad emotions they're just emotions like we get to own all of those and I think that's really powerful and if you want to put yourself out there or if you want to grow a social media following based on your personal account anyway I think brand's slightly different but it's really important to own all parts of you and be comfortable with them. And I don't think that's necessarily like something that happens overnight, but I think all of us can go on that journey and it'd be a continuing journey throughout our lives. It's definitely a key that you said, continuing journey. Like it's not like you get to this point and you're like, Oh, I'm just good.

Like I'm just good with everything. I'm confident all the time. I look great all the time. I feel like I know what I'm talking about all the time. It just doesn't happen. You just reach new levels at where, at which friction occurs. So, you know, maybe in the beginning friction occurs when you're like just, you know, turning the camera onto yourself and you're like, oh God, not today. That might be level one. And then six months later, it might be that friction occurs when you're doing a podcast or something like that. And then that's a new level because it's live speaking and there's no script and you haven't planned and you haven't done all these things. Then a year later, it might be speaking on stage. So you're always going to hit resistance. It's

just, what do you do in those moments when you do hit resistance? Can you give yourself grace? Can you allow yourself to suck? That's something I say often in Influencer School is like, give yourself the grace to show up and suck. Because if you don't allow yourself to suck, you're never going to be amazing. Everyone sucks at some point. And you will continue to suck. Like you and I suck at things often. And I think like create an environment first and foremost, that is going to be supportive of you in those times. Like we have that in the work that we do together. You know, we're so kind to each other when we need a little pat on the back, we give it to each other. And if you don't have that environment, I think that can be really challenging. And that's something actually I want to talk about

is when myself and my business partner initially started our business, we were young and we didn't have, you know, friends around us that were doing similar things. And I know that is something that I'm sure listeners really relate to is they want to start out on a new path, whether that's being an influencer, starting on social media, starting an online business, and they don't have that network. And all they get is the feedback from their environment, which is, what are you doing? Who do you think you are to do that? That's never going to work. And we hear that so often and that will always be present. But can you support yourself also with people that are going to tell you the opposite,

that are going to give you the love that you need? And that's what's so incredible. I think with Influencer School is not just like the content and seeing the results that people are getting, but the community that's been built. It's my favorite. Like people hyping each other up. And there's so many women in there that have just said, like, I think the community is the most amazing part because of the support that it's provided. And sometimes you don't necessarily need another tip or a trick or a hack or something to do. You just need someone to say like, hey, show up today. You got this.

Or that reel was dope. You know, even though maybe it didn't get the engagement that you wanted, like, I thought that was amazing. Keep going. And I think one of the comments that we see often is like, oh, I wasn't really sure when I first started out, but actually I saw someone, like one of my old friends, and they said like how amazing my content is. And I think it's those little sparks that keep you going. And if you don't have that, and all you have is this negative feedback from your environment, it makes it so much harder. It's like swimming upstream

versus if you support yourself with a positive environment, you're working with the flow of the water rather than like fighting every day against all of these external things to keep going. Completely. I love that. Like working with the flow of the water. You're true. Like that's so true. You're like with the flow of the stream. Yeah. I want to share a quote that, um, this is Danielle Canty original. This really helped me because I felt like when you first start on social media, this was what got in my way. I cared so much what other people would think because I was a chiropractor and I like mastered that. You know how you're saying that you suck at like loads of things, but generally what happens is you suck at new things and you probably got pretty good at the

things that you don't over and over again. So I came from chiropractic into online world I didn't even have it and I think I had an Instagram account for like a year and I started in 2017 and probably posted about five times when I went into Boss Babe and I was behind the scenes for so so long but one thing that really stood in my way of posting was like caring what people would think of me because I was doing something so different like Was it the people that you knew or was it external or everyone? It was just like old school friends. There were sometimes these weird ones that you don't even know that you care about that person. And they're not like your close friends, but they're people who are following you.

I probably had like 200 followers at that point, right? And I realized and I said that I put this quote on my Instagram a little while ago and I was like you care what they think at the beginning but they care what you think at the end it was a good one right that's how I wanted to get at it yeah great quote I know right and it's so true trademark that right away you should um but it is because it made me, now, those people I was scared about, on them judging me at the beginning, they're like, shout me out. They'll post my stuff or they'll comment on it. And it's amazing. I had that same experience.

I had people, when I was working at the bank, there was a lot of older, successful, traditionally successful men that worked there. Of course, the 19-year-old blonde person coming in saying that she was going to quit her job and start day trading, they didn't really take to it too well. And they told me all the reasons why I shouldn't. They were coming from a good place, as most people I think are. They were also coming from a place of fear for what they know to be true I think there is definitely categories where that comes from and I had both so there are the people that feel threatened by what you're doing because if you can succeed and they can't or they're not doing it it highlights all of the things that they're not doing and that makes them feel bad

about themselves I genuinely believe these people cared about me fear for you as in they had for you and they were fearful for you as well so I think two ways fearful because they feel threatened but I think there's people who are just genuinely fearful of you they love you so much they don't want to see you fail and they're afraid of your failure for you a hundred percent and that's what I mean I think they were really in the right place and often you'll see this with like parents who want their kids to go to college and the child doesn't want to or the teen doesn't want to they, they want to go on their own path. And not that there's one right or wrong way, but there are definitely differences starting to emerge where the parents want one thing and the teen wants another. And I don't think it's that they have these ill intentions. They just think like, that's

what you have to do. We want this so badly for you. You're making a bad, a bad choice here, a bad decision. And I think that's what I was experiencing at the bank. They were like, oh, you know, you're in this career where you're on your way up and you've made it. You know, that's what everyone was telling me, like, oh, you've made it so far as a 19-year-old working in the bank. And it was interesting to see their response when I said, oh, I'm actually going to go do different things. I'm going to do bigger things. And I kind of said it with starry eyes. And I think they just thought like, oh, she's probably going to be back. This won't work. And they were not shy in letting me know about that. And then now I get Facebook messages from them of, oh, what's that course that you have? I'd love to learn. And these are from financial professionals that were working at a

bank. So it's interesting. I don't necessarily see it as like an egoic. I know there's a lot of these quotes going around of like kind of from an egoic perspective of like, oh, they'll come around. They'll come, you know, and I don't see it like that. I just see it as like a shift in perspective. And I think you can like really appreciate those people that do have your best interests at heart versus feeling like, oh, you know, they don't support me. I agree. And I think that's a huge shift in perspective now because, you know, we're in the era of the creator economy, right? And if I think back to being a student at school, right? My mom was trained in dance, was in art and design.

And she had to become a teacher because she couldn't really make a good income on that. Because traditionally, creative pathways were really underpaid yeah you would get some like elite of the elite which would get paid good but generally like it was really hard if you like you know I was definitely lucky that I was very academic so math science I'm gonna like put academic in quotation marks like the traditional like math science and English stuff like I did really well at but I remember like my brother wasn't that way inclined and he was uh more creative yeah and he really struggled like he got labeled as not being smart almost because of that people didn't understand that or didn't necessarily see always the value in that

in the school education system as it was in the UK at that time. And I am so pleased now from being of a family from creators. My dad was an accountant of mine, but you know, it's so incredible to see that completely switching because now I see so much power in the creators. They are the ones who are in demand and social media has really switched that. Because like we were saying in this whole conversation, marketing's had to change. There's ways that the money used to go one way, now it's flipping the other way. A hundred percent.

So from your perspective, because you've been in the creator economy for over a decade now. I'm not going to give away how old you are. I just turned 32. It's okay. It's okay. We can take a sigh of relief on that one. But yeah, I want to talk to you about that.

Yeah, I think there's definitely, I mean, one of the common questions is like, oh, is it too late? Is it still growing? Can I get in? Is it oversaturated? There's so many people doing this nowadays. Is it still an option for me?

Let's just, before we get into that, let's define the creator economy. Because I think that's, some of you are like, huh, what is that? Yeah, that's true. I think there's the one side of it that people see are the literal creators right there's the people who showing up and creating content and I think that's almost where it gets its bad rap from or people see it as not like a serious career because all you see is like tiktokers doing dances and stuff

like that but there's a whole economy to support this and we walk people through this in the beginning of influence of school and it's really really this whole emergence of this economy has needed services, systems, you know, payment processes, like so many different products and services to actually support this economy, which is now grown into like, what is a hundred billion dollar economy and growing. And it's not just the creators. The creators are the fuel of everything. Without the creators, it doesn't exist. But there are so many different careers within the creator economy. Building a platform myself to serve the creator economy, that's a route. You don't have to be, I believe it was, who was it? The ladies, Crystal and Giada from Content Crop. They're amazing. They're amazing. And they had this amazing analogy that's always stuck with me. They said, in the gold rush, there were the gold miners

and then there were Levi's providing the jeans for the gold miners to wear. And you don't have to be the gold miner. You can provide the jeans. So that's always stuck with me as a really great way to explain it. And in the creator economy, you have platforms that people are building to support creators like you know instagram tiktok membership

platforms all the things you have social media managers that are needed to help support the creators we have a whole team supporting the whole team yeah and and how much do you guys spend on team costs you know like that is a whole thing in its own right, is just the creative people that support the faces behind the creative economy. And people don't see that. There are copywriters, there are videographers, there are editors, and they're just like the mainstream ones. There are so many different people involved in this economy that people don't really think about. And I think that's why it's often given a bad rap when people say, oh, I'm going to go work in the creator economy. People just envision you doing like a TikTok dance

on your stairs or something, you know, versus actually building a career in one of the fastest growing economies right now, one of the safest economies, because it's not dependent on a location. There's a lot of turbulent things happening in the world. And I think security is something that is really, really important to so many. And I feel so grateful every single day seeing all the things that are happening that I haven't been affected negatively. In fact, I almost have guilt sometimes because it's actually positively impacted, you know, our business and the way that we work because of the freedom to, you know, do it from anywhere

in the world, the freedom to not it from anywhere in the world, the freedom to not be tied to having distribution and manufacturing and all of these infrastructures around you that are actually quite vulnerable when the economy shifts or when something happens in the world. You're pretty independent when all you rely on is a social media platform or an internet connection. So I feel grateful for that every single day.

And I think before the emergence of the creator economy, that really was quite rare to be able to make a living doing it in that way. Yeah, that's really true. And, you know, I'm glad we're speaking about this because one thing that I grew up thinking was like, oh, get a job that's stable. Yeah. But actually employing yourself or having the side hustle where you're getting this extra income or even becoming your sole hustle like when um covid hit for us natalie and i were in the driving seat of our own business to pivot that and we could take it in the direction so i'm really glad that you brought it up so a lot of people just as you had started to share it's like oh i've missed the social media bandwagon.

Like I've missed Instagram. Do they say it in that voice? No, occasionally they do. This is also my meditation voice. It's quite relaxing. But like, you know, what would you say to them? I think that's a limiting belief. I mean, if you look at the trajectory of the creator economy,

it's going up and to the right, you know, it's growing. And people can see that as an excuse of like, oh, you know, it's already taken off, missed the boat, or they can see it as an incredible opportunity to join an emerging economy and one that's continuing to grow. I think what has tangibly changed is there is more competition. You know, in any new market, there is kind of this period of time where you're an early adopter and there's no competition. In any new market, there is kind of this period of time where you're an early adopter and there's no competition. So you have a lot more freedom then. There is more competition now. There's also more opportunity now with the emergence of new platforms and all these new ways to monetize and make money. So I think that's where the value of knowing how to

navigate the creator economy comes in, which is exactly why we created Influenza School to teach people how to navigate that. Because it's not a one-stop shop nowadays where it used to be, show your lifestyle, pose on a car, get your legs out and get a brand deal. That was kind of like the one route that really existed in the beginning or the known route, at least. Nowadays, there are so many different ways you can monetize. There are so many different ways that you can show up. There are so many different social media platforms. And I think you really need that help to know what actually suits my skill set. What am I going to be able to be consistent in based on my lifestyle?

How am I going to be able to monetize? And what actually makes sense for me to monetize? You know, there are some people who might just want to side hustle. They might just want to have that security of knowing, okay, you know what? I actually kind of like my job. I'm really doing well here. I want to continue on this trajectory, but I'd like to have this security. And I think that's a big thing that I feel is like my audience is my insurance policy. And I've heard other people say this, and granted, like I don't have the biggest audience in the world, but I know what to do with it. And I know that no matter what happens, I'll always be

able to tap into that and provide value in some way to them. And because of that, I'll always be secure. So I think it's really understanding how to navigate it and not letting it overwhelm you and giving yourself the tools, whether it's Influenza School or something else, like giving yourself the tools that you need to navigate it effectively. You can't throw yourself head first into anything that you don't understand and expect for it to work out. I think you really do need a little bit of guidance. And that guidance could simply be just really observing other people and watching what they're doing and asking questions and hitting people up. If you see someone doing really well at social media, don't be afraid to ask. You can always

reach out to me and ask, hey, I want to learn more. How are you doing this? But being a student, like you said. And that's the biggest misconception that I've seen as well, that people think they have to have a million followers before they make a million dollars. And Natalie and I always say completely that is not the case. And now the money is in the micro-influencers. Under 100,000, that is where I know a lot of brands are putting their money because they see the biggest lift with that. So I think that's a really big opening for more people to get into the creative economy, for more people to make revenue out of the creative economy and really take on the direction and the ownership of their own careers and where

they want to take that. Yep, 100%. I saw a lot of press releases recently going out to influencer marketing agencies saying that, yeah, sub 50,000 follower accounts are actually the most impactful, generally because they're more niche. So if you have a, let's say a meme account with like 5 million followers, maybe 10% of those people or even less are actually interested in the offer that you put in front of them but if you have a smaller account that's really really engaged and niche around a certain topic a lot more of those people are going to be interested in the offer that you put in front of them so it's not about you know growing to this massive you know millions and millions of followers

count or anything like that I've seen people with sub 1000 followers that everyone is an influencer whether you're, you know, presenting in a meeting or, you know, trying to convince someone to date you, you know, like having persuasion and, and yeah. See? And oftentimes we see that people just have it a little bit wrong in the beginning, or I wouldn't say wrong but they don't have a clear picture in their mind of how they're going to get there and they kind of just think like oh i'd like to make a little extra money but we really help them

get clear on like okay if you want to make an extra 5k a month this is your options you know you can sell this at this amount and these are your options or you know maybe you don't want to go into a subscription service like Patreon or something where you're offering a $9 a month subscription because you don't have that many followers yet, and that's really a volume game. So I think it's like knowing how to navigate to get the result that you want. And there are so many different results that you can achieve through being a creator. It doesn't look the same for everyone. I think that was a big inspiration and a big motivation to create Influencer School is there are so many programs and courses and and books out there that show you one path and that

was a little bit of my qualm with like traditional education is like there's one route there's one path when in reality there are many it's kind of like a buffet you get to select what you want based on where you want to go in life and that didn't really exist there was no one showing you how to navigate the many many options that are available to you and kind of put them together into a meal that you actually want to eat. So yeah, I don't know what question you asked anymore. I just went off on a tangent there. No, but I was just thinking, I love that we put those things in. I really enjoy that about the content and the courses that we create. We are no fluff, no BS. Someone's like, oh, I want to make this amount from selling this with this many followers. No, love,

that's completely unrealistic. You want to make this much money, go for it, but you need to do it this route. And I love that we're just so upfront and honest because all we ever want to do is to help women make more money. That is our number one goal. And so I really enjoy that we never hold back on that and that we have the experience. We're like, okay, don't make the same mistakes that we did and do it this way. We're going to save you something there. I mean, we literally created the map, right? And it's like, what should I focus on? Because we found out that was what people were getting so tripped up on is like, what should I focus on and when? Should I be growing? Should I be monetizing? What should I do? So we created a flowchart for them. If you're here, go here.

If yes, go here. Because I think that needs to exist. Like there's, it's not a linear path. There are many, many different options, but someone needed to put that together to help. Someone needed to. And we did it. So it burnt us out, but we did it.

Let's talk about like, obviously when we were creating Influencer School, it's a lot of content and what skills go into that and let's just talk about being able to create content as a skill set and what that can mean for you and your life yeah um because I think it can mean more than lots of people realize yeah I actually felt like creating content is sprinkled into everyone's life and many different ways. Yeah, I think you hit on something earlier and everyone is an influencer, whether you're, you know, presenting in a meeting or, you know, trying to convince someone to date you,

you know, like having persuasion. I just convinced a girl to lease on my apartment. I was like using all my persuasion techniques and my influence techniques. Having influence is really, really powerful. Knowing how to persuade people to take the action that you want them to take, which can be used for good or evil. But knowing how to create the actions that you want in people is an incredibly powerful skill. What question did you ask? We were talking about the content as a skill set content as a skill but we did go into dating and i was going to enjoy you that like i got distracted i started thinking about dating well on the last

podcast i did with natalie we ended up talking about launches as sex and the pre-launch being the foreplay that was an interesting podcast if you've not listened to it i've not listened to it yet but now i might go and listen to it. I might get distracted again. No, content is a skill. It's been incredibly powerful for me and I've pivoted and used it in so many different ways. Like obviously the external way that people see is YouTube and Instagram and the content that I create for myself. But I've pivoted and used that in a media company, right? Knowing how to create content that converts, how to create content that actually gets a result. It's incredibly powerful and a lot of businesses need that. So I've turned that skill into a media business where we now support others. Again, I have so

much security because I know that let's say that all went away. I could go be a social media manager in a heartbeat. Let's say that all went away. I could go work in the entertainment world in a heartbeat because I understand what goes into creating a piece of content. And there are so many different, you know, from Boss Babe, there are so many different people who are involved in that creative process. And if you understand from start to finish how to do it, you can become any one of those people at any moment. Or you can even educate people how to do it. Like, you know, I could step into that very easily as well. So I think in relation to influencer school, one of the biggest assets, and there are a lot of entrepreneurs that listen, I know, creating content so that you can create your own products,

not having to outsource that and pay it because video work is quite expensive if you don't know how to do it yourself. So I think it's been really powerful, particularly in our own businesses and with Bosswave as well, we were able to create that course in-house versus having to outsource it, which increased profit margins for one, but also reduced the amount of infrastructure and time and people involved in the process because we could do it all start to finish ourselves. So I think not only is it financially wise and from a business perspective wise to have understanding around how to create content, but from a business perspective wise to have understanding around how to create content, but it's also incredibly empowering to have an idea and be

able to execute on it and just create it, start to finish yourself. I find that really motivating to know that let's say we're in a meeting and we have an idea, we can just go and make it happen. My perception is as well that you don't have to be the one that creates all the content or is on the front of the camera all the time but what's really important in this day and age I believe is that you do understand um what the creator economy is and within that how content how good content is created for social media how and then how that spreads along and how what is influence and how to create influence and how to do all these things like even if you're not doing it you should understand it so if you're a business owner I think it's really really important that you understand all of these concepts even if you're not the one executing on it and also if

you're an employee I think it's just really really good knowledge to like really understand this area because like we just started by saying it doesn't even need to be used in the traditional sense like the understanding messaging and understanding like the art of structuring i use that in conversations now i'm like okay if i sandwich it like this it's gonna yeah it's just how to connect with people. Like content is a language that we're speaking online. And that is a good one. That's an Amy Sangster original right there. I like that one. But I think knowing how to speak the language is just so important. Even if let's say you have a job in tourism, maybe you work with the Four Seasons. If you can go into that interview and say, I also have social media skills, I can run your social media, I can create content that's going to serve you.

You become so much more valuable in a heartbeat. And it's always a skill that you can fall back on and take that power back and do it for yourself if you want to be the face. But you don't have to be. Like, think about the people that interview to work with Boston Baby. How many of them show up and say, you know, I understand social. And that immediately makes them more valuable versus let's say maybe someone in operations who typically doesn't necessarily need to understand content. If they

say that they do in a content-based company and they can prove and demonstrate that they do, it just makes sense to work with those types of people. And in an economy that's continually growing when other economies are struggling, I just see it as a really, really powerful tool to have in your back pocket. We're used to saying chiropractic, like have as many tools in your toolbox as possible. You don't have to use them all the time, but then you can pull out the ones that you need at any given moment.

A hundred percent. And I think that's also really powerful is to like understand all these different concepts. So let's talk about Influencer School because we kind of mentioned it like several times what is this thing and honestly it's I don't know if it's my favorite product because this is the side he was like you know that was the place in my heart which you don't have to take a favorite I'll let it slide I freaking love that product and the results that people are having there and how they're changing their lives I am honestly obsessed from someone who was like terrified of social media when they started

so I relate a lot to the women in there and from working with them the past like 12 weeks and seeing the complete transformation I'm talking about people who had barely posted before now having like viral reels, or I'm talking about people who were like, Oh my goodness, I just want to get this many followers. And they've tripled that. Or people who are just like, I've never grown. I've been trying to post forever. I've always felt lost. I've lost all my confidence. And now they've got their mojo back. They're posting consistently. They're seeing it. And now they're getting to sell their products on the back end of it. So let's talk a little about Influencer School. Let's talk about the modules that were in there. Yeah, let's just give some details on that.

Let's do it. It's really amazing. So when we're putting it together, you know this, but not everyone knows this. We were thinking of how to make it fun first and foremost. Like there are so many courses online nowadays and one of the biggest problems with courses is they just are not engineered to help people finish them. In a dopamine rich world where we have so many distractions, I think people forget that courses and education needs to have a component of that too. It needs to be fun. It needs to keep people engaged. Typically, I see businesses, you know, focus on selling someone and then after that

all the fun stops and you're like, oh, this is work. So we were really intentional about creating a product and a community and an experience that felt fun all the way through. So it's all branded influence of school. It's like a college theme. We have freshman year, we got sophomore year, we got junior year. So we broke it out into the years. Also kind of a juxtaposition to traditional college where people go through traditional college and they see it as a skillset that they're building to really help create security in their future. Same thing with this.

It's just for a modern day economy. So when we're creating it, we thought back to, how would we proceed nowadays if we were starting from zero? What steps would we go through to get from zero to where we want to be? How would we decide, you know, what it is that we want to do? And it was interesting because there's yourself, Natalie, myself, and Hunter all involved. And we all had different answers to those questions for you you know you had a different personality and a different skill set very different to you extrovert yeah well I'm an introvert I am an introvert okay you like social media gurus you could say us uh Natalie and I are

both eights uh so yeah no we um we all had different answers to the questions. And I think that's what came together and made a really incredible product because not only were we really focused on who is this for and how can we help them get what they want, but also like what challenges have we all been through? Because they've all been different. And that's why I think it's so powerful because we're not just talking about one route.

We're not just talking about overcoming one challenge, but we're really walking through a complete comprehensive process of how to get from A to B. And A to B might look different. A to B might be, I just want more confidence. I know what to do, but I just can't show up. I need the systems and the confidence and the community to get from A to B. A might be, I have a job and I really want to get out of that. That that was my A to B. I really want to quit this job. I really want to create security and financial freedom through social media and through selling, you know, my own products and services or promoting other people's.

That's been a really, really common A to B that we've seen is people supplementing their income as well with brand deals. You know, just creating a little more money in their lives, a little bit more freedom, a little bit more security through, you know what, I just generated a $2,000 brand deal this month. Or I saw a post in there recently of someone that just got gifted a trip. You know, there are a lot of traditional influences in there and that's why I don't want to kind of talk negatively about the term influencer in a traditional sense. It's changing women's lives. Like this lady that was posting about it was saying like, I have never even been overseas. Like this is incredible. And now I have been gifted this free

trip and this experience that I never would have been able to have. So there's so many different diverse women in there. Some actually are valedictorian. We've got all the college references of our previous previous cohort uh i believe she works and correct me if i'm wrong uh she was saying she works for like fortune 500 company um forbes 30 under 32 there you go coming on the podcast oh hers will be out in a couple of weeks fun fun yeah you'll have to dig into that one um but yeah it's so amazing to just see the diversity that's in there and the different uh stages that women are at and how we can support them with one product through many, many different stages. I think it's been incredibly fulfilling.

Like, I don't want to sugarcoat it. You know, that was like a lot of work for us last year to put that together. Heart and soul, tears, laughter. A lot of tears and some laughter. Amy got me doing I was the naughty student we have yeah

we got to explain that because people will be like what is that once they get in there they can see or create an open loop they have to get in but it's like

open loop but you know one thing that really stood out for me is people came to grow and monetize their Instagram accounts their TikTok accounts their tiktok accounts their

youtube accounts any social media platform we basically covered um they came for those but what i saw was a transformation in confidence yeah and them leaving with friends yeah like a community of women that like you said during this interview that would hype them up when they're having a low day that when no one in their lives really got what they were trying to do or understanding where they wanted to go they had those people there and we have live calls and we have these clarity calls and all these things where people can get to know each other on and this is how much it meant to us we were so blown away by the cohorts this time the you were talking about our valedictorian chloe but i'm also having some of our students on the podcast and that was a special surprise to them uh we did this nominees

and it was just phenomenal they got nominated and we had the winners on they got the tuition back we're actually doing that this year too um where because we're just so impressed by you know those who go through this and also quite often in courses a lot of people and some of you probably listen to this like oh I buy courses and I never do them yeah the completion rates and they're so insane because guess what it was created by content creators hey hey so we made it fun we made it interesting so that people would be engaged all the way through it because we knew that

that's always a struggle. A hundred percent. And I think you got to be aware of like how to motivate people, not just through the content, but also, hey, if you get the results, you put in the work,

we want to give you a reward. Like you shouldn't have to pay for this. We will give you your tuition back. That was a really rewarding and fulfilling call. I mean, we're all in tears on that last call, just hearing how much it's not only affected people, but then being able to give back to those people as well and seeing just the journey that they've been on through 12 weeks. And that's only 12 weeks. It's going to continue for them after

that point. But I think it's a lot more, I knew it was going to be great, but it's been a lot more rewarding and fulfilling than even I could have imagined to support these women. And I know that often, you know, with the hustle and bustle of everyday life, you know, getting on calls for people can feel like just another task that they have to do. Sometimes even the hosts included, but the energy on them, like every single person wants to be there. Everyone feels, being an introvert, introverts will know this, you typically enjoy connecting with people, but feel drained afterwards and you need alone time. After every single one of those calls, no joke, I felt more energized because it made everything that we do in every sense,

just so much more worthwhile. And I think, you know, we talk a lot about monetizing and the creator economy and at the heart of it all for me is my why. And that is my why is to help people achieve the freedom that they want, achieve a lifestyle that they want, and not just freedom financially, but like mental freedom. And we saw so much of that, like people getting over limiting beliefs and people seeing themselves differently. And I mean, there's a whole, if you go on, this will seem like a plug, but I just want people to see the transformation, but like influenceofschoolreviews.com, it's a live feed of what people are saying about what they've been through. And I share that because I want people to read these transformations.

Like they're amazing and it just makes everything incredibly worthwhile and nothing can replace it. No amount of money or followers can replace that feeling of being able to help someone else and show up in service to them. Yeah. And we had a listener on the podcast a while ago and she spoke about like selling a service when you have something amazing to offer that you know is going to bring good to people's lives or help them change their situation going from where they don't want it to be and really transforming it. And I think I just wanted to say like, unapologetically, if anyone is interested in this, I'm going to put some links in the show notes. You can check out Influencer Score Reviews. And we also do a training, which is no fluff, no BS, just incredible

content in there if you want to know more about it but I'll put the links as well to the sales pages because if you are like both Amy and I who wanted to change our lives I had a brick and mortar business I absolutely was not in love with it at all I hated having to show up at the same place at the same time and having my life governed in 15 minutes and having this glass ceiling of playing like I can't earn any more money than this I wanted that out and social media and influence gave me that and I that's why we created this product so that we could change more lives for women and there wasn't a high entry to it it's not like you have to buy a business for several hundred thousand or put like millions into marketing to get somewhere like you don't have

to do that you already have a phone. Yeah. Just have to invest in yourself to learn, get the roadmap and run with it. Yeah. And show up. Show up. Don't just buy it.

Show up. Yeah. Well, we make sure they do that. No, it is. You come to one call and you'll be addicted anyway. A hundred percent. It is, I think, something so incredible that we've been able to put together and having

the trust from you and Natalie to support in this has been amazing. And also Drea being included in the TikTok side of things. Drea's got like 5.4 million TikTok. Oh, this is one thing about us too, you guys. We never want to teach you something that we've not done. And we were like, wow, actually between us, we've got YouTube experience, we've got actually between us we've got YouTube experience we've got Instagram experience we've got Facebook experience but we haven't got TikTok experience so yeah Drea came in Drea knows best she's insane on TikTok and she came and did modules on that because we never want to be teaching you things that we've not done that's always really important to us like if ever I think it's life advice really if ever you want to go somewhere don't learn from someone who's not been where you want to go. A hundred percent. Yeah. Don't take advice from people sitting on the sidelines.

But I mean, we're going to be updating it too. Just today. Oh, always. Yeah. I mean, just today we were having a meeting about that, but I think it's really important for me at least to continue to include fresh perspectives because it's not one way. There's so many different ways and I want to continue to include case studies. Like we have Violet Benson in there talking about her case study because she has a very unique way that she grew on social media. So it's about bringing in those fresh perspectives because sometimes all it takes is, you know, hearing one person's story triggers that idea in you. And you're like, you know what, I actually connect

with that. And, you know, in the first call of Influence School last round, we were saying like, kind of choose your character are you a danielle are you a natalie are you a hunter are you amy like how are you going to use this skill and so bringing more and more stories and more and more people that have had success through using this skill in and maybe in different ways is really it's interesting not only for us but to the students to hear all of the different ways that you can actually utilize these skills in your life. So I'm really excited to continue to improve the product. Even now, we're still scripting, still adding, still getting it ready for the next time we open in April. Because it's definitely something that I think has the power to change so

many more lives than it has already. And I'm just excited to continue making it the best thing yet. Well, listen listen thank you so much Amy for this amazing conversation thank you for having me it's so nice to actually have this little sit down with you I know that we're not in a meeting for once how wonderful it's so nice thank you really amazing and we'll put all the links for everybody and Amy do you want to share your social handles as well yes you know as always if you have enjoyed this podcast then you can give me a follow yeah follow amy at amy sangster amy sangster 53 oh yeah it's the 53 what is that for i was like a lucky number back in the day and i think my my normal handle was taken and then it

just stuck and people knew me as amy sangster 53 so i like it if you got any questions for me you know where to find me yeah share all the things we really appreciate it yes awesome thank you for having me if you enjoyed this episode we would love it if you subscribed and left us a review let us know what you enjoyed what your main takeaways were and who you'd like to see appear on the show. As a special thanks, we'll send you a copy of our Boss Babe 25. Now this is an awesome resource. It's the 25 essential things that you need for personal and professional growth. We've included everything from must-have products, to books, to rituals. This guide literally covers it all and I know you're going to love it.

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