the bossbabe podcast - 218. How To Use Social Media To Make A Positive Impact

Episode Date: May 17, 2022

Chloe is an internationally acclaimed social designer, TEDx speaker, the founder of NEXT Memphis and was named one of Forbes’ 2020 30 Under 30. She’s used her platform and her story to enact meaningful change in her community – and she’s sharing how you can do the same. In this week’s episode of the bossbabe podcast, Chloe Hakim-Moore and Danielle Canty are having an honest and meaningful conversation about equality, equity, social design and how we all can each use our platforms to make a real difference in our communities.  Yes – there’s a lot of progress we still need to make in our society, and seeing how far we need to go can feel overwhelming. It’s our hope that this podcast gives you actionable steps you can start to take in your life and business today to start making real and lasting change. Listen now.  Highlights: The difference between equality + equity – and why one has the power to change our world How you can use social media to enact meaningful change in your community Understanding social design + why it matters for your business How Chloe became Forbes 30 Under 30 + how you can, too The three keys behind giving a strong presentation and TED talk Links: The 2020 Forbes 30 Under 30 List See Chloe’s amazing achievement for yourself! NEXT Memphis Find out more about Chloe’s community childcare organization.  Your Ultimate Roadmap To Making Six Figures In 2022 The only six steps you need to take to get unstuck + make more money doing what you love in 2022. The Société Join our private, online community of female entrepreneurs where you can connect, build and grow. Influencer School Our 12-week, guided coaching and certification program designed to help you gain full clarity on your personal brand, learn how to create easy, consistent content, build an audience of engaged followers and create a full-time income from social media. Influencer School Reviews Follow: bossbabe: @bossbabe.inc Danielle Canty: @daniellecanty Natalie Ellis: @iamnatalie Chloe Hakim-Moore: @chloehakimmoore

To me, business is not the main thing. It's not the most important. Like, your time is, and your experience in this world is. And so if I get to share in that with you, and we can create things together, like we can learn together, we can grow together, we can hurt together and heal, that to me is what matters. ambitious and paves the way for herself and other women to rise, keep going and fighting on. She is on a mission to be her best self in all areas. It's just believing in yourself, confidently stepping outside her comfort zone to create her own vision of success. Welcome to the Boss Babe podcast, the place where we share with you the real behind the scenes of building successful

businesses, achieving peak performance and learning how to balance it all. I'm Danielle Canty, your host for this week's episode and president and co-founder of Boss Babe. Now today I'm joined by Chloe Harkin-Ball. She is an internationally acclaimed social impact designer, sociologist and entrepreneur. To date, she leads over 2 billion, yes you heard that right, 2 billion in social impact system transformation, all designed to deepen personal wellness, interpersonal resilience, community safety, and abundance, and human civil rights. And then in 2020, Forbes actually called Chloe a key revolutionary change in the course and the face of business and society and named her to their renown.

She was added to the Forbes 30 under 30 list and she has graced stages around the world, including a TEDx talk, which went viral. And she's also spoken alongside Nobel Peace Prize nominees, such as Stacey Abrams. So Chloe is so inspiring. She is an activist and she really pushes leaders in the streets and in the boardrooms alike to reimagine well-being beyond personal wellness and assess their own role in transforming systems for a better world. But she also has an attitude where this starts within and it can start on social media too. What I love about Chloe is she doesn't come from your typical entrepreneur background, although she is transitioning into that. She comes from a corporate background where she's learned to leverage social media to help her make moves, help her leverage her voice and get her

message out to more people. This is not only a really inspiring podcast, it's also one where I think we all can learn and we can all look at ourselves and think, oh, what else could I do that leaves society better than where I found it? So I hope you enjoy this podcast. Let's dive right in. Chloe, welcome to the Boss Babe podcast. Thank you for having me. I am so grateful to be here. I am really inspired by doing this interview today because the way this has come about is actually you were voted the valedictorian in our influencer school alumni. But when you were voted this, I had no idea about your resume.

You've run billion dollar nonprofits. You've been Forbes 30 under 30. In fact, Forbes described you as, I have it written here, a key revolutionary changing the course and the face of business and society. Like how, how did you feel hearing being described by that? Yeah, it was a bit surreal, to be honest, just because the work that I do is really, and I was telling this to Hunter right before the show, that if I can just help make one person feel more comfortable in their skin and their lives, that to me is a life well lived. So to be in Forbes described this way at like a systems level

and helping change the narrative for communities it's so surreal and I feel a balance of responsibility but a lot of honor in that too and I think that's so beautiful it's like you are you know quite often social media gets this like bad reputation or influences let's call them in brackets they get this bad reputation but actually when influence is in the right places man is it powerful? Does it inspire change? Does it like start these revolutions? And I think that's really powerful. And so I kind of want to start there. I want to start a little bit about your story and what you've been, you know, using your life to do and the change that you're creating in the world.

So let's just start as like, you know, growing up and what your focus was. Yeah. And I so appreciate you asking me it in the context of a life story because that's exactly how it feels to me. So I believe, you know, work is a part of what we do, but it's informed by who we are. And so for me, work or my career really started from a very young age. I tell people that I became an anthropologist somewhat on accident in the fourth grade. So I'm multiracial. And growing up, you know, I didn't even think anything of it. I have cousins with blonde hair, blue eyes, cousins who look like they live in India,

even though they live in Trinidad, cousins who are Black Americans. And so I grew up really multiethnic. And in school, that was really not talked about until, again, fourth grade. And I had a girl in my class. She goes, so what are you? And I'm looking at her and I'm like, oh, I'm your friend. And she goes, no, what are you? I'm like, Chloe. And she rubs her skin and she's like, no, what are you? And it occurred to me years later, she meant like, you're not white you're not black and that's all i know she was confused about i was probably nine years old and so from there i

from a very early age i had to start answering questions about identity about self community heritage can i just ask you at this point so Sue, at nine years old, when another girl is asking you that, and you're so baffled by the question initially, what did that spark in you at that point? Was that, I'm curious whether it was a turning point or sent you down a different path or just made you question things and ask questions to your parents. I'm just curious as to what then, because you remember that story. And so I'm just wondering like how that impacted things. Yeah, it definitely made me feel like in the moment I knew I had to consider a much larger universe of things that no one else around me was being asked to consider. Obviously, fourth graders don't sound like that. So it probably sounded a little different in my head, but I knew I felt something much larger that I didn't know how to navigate. And I didn't tell my parents, actually. I remember holding it to myself because I was really confused and a little sad that I was being called different. However,

you know, as I've moved forward, those kinds of questions and that type of curiosity is something I really welcome. Because looking back, she really was just curious like she had no you know premonitions one way or another she just wanted to know you're different and I'm curious as to why and so you know we're not different you're different to what to her and what she knew and I also think that's an important narrative yeah because we can all move to different countries I can go to India and I will be different. And so I think that's also really like powerful to really understand too. Yeah. And I think it brought up for me, the notion of norms and norms are very relative. So what's normal in one context could be completely

foreign in another context. But again, I mean, I'm really young and what I understood in that moment was that I should be curious about what's going on. So fast forward, you know, I'm really young. And what I understood in that moment was that I should be curious about what's going on. So fast forward, I go to college and we've talked about this before the interview, but I'm very much first gen. So my mom immigrated from Trinidad and Tobago for university in her twenties. And my grandfather, he actually was born into sharecropping. And so for anybody who's listening who doesn't know, sharecropping. And so for anybody who's listening who doesn't know, sharecropping was basically the kind of workaround after slavery was abolished. And so it on paper was a way that especially Black Americans would be able to make money,

quote unquote, by doing all of the labor on land, but they weren't allowed to leave. They could never actually make enough to buy their freedom. And they were threatened with threats of murder or violence if they tried to leave. And what year was this? Yeah, so this is when my grandfather was born in like early 1940s. My grandfather is still alive today. He is my hero. So like this is not a really distant narrative, right? But a lot of people think it is.

And so when my dad was born, he was born during segregation. So truly in that part of my family, my siblings and I are the first generation born legally free and legally equal, which I put air quotes around that because there's a lot in our legal system that needs to change. However, yeah, we are the first ones who could go to any school we wanted to. We are the first ones who could drink from any water fountain we wanted to, right? And that's here in the U.S. And so with these kinds of, you know, there's a lot of cultural history there. There's a lot of belongingness and togetherness in my family. And we didn't have necessarily the background of wealth because our communities literally

were not allowed to amass wealth or to own things. And so all of my family was in housing. My grandpa was the first black realtor in Memphis. And my dad also worked in his company, which was really amazing. My mom was a loan officer for a long time. And when the market crashed in 08, we suddenly were in a very stressful situation. So we went from being very stable and sturdy, and my mom's sending money back home to the islands, my dad is taking care of his family here, and we went from being able to support our whole immediate and expanded family to now being barely able to support ourselves. And all my life I had been taught, if you're good, if you're generous to people, if you have a good heart, everything else works out. And so on one hand, my family had done

that and I was really proud. But on the other, we were in this deep financial scarcity that really was confusing. And I thought to myself, well, I know it's not because my parents have bad hearts. All they've done is take care of everyone their whole lives. Like if they have a shirt on their back, they'd give it to somebody else. And yet we're in this really difficult situation. So when I got to college, I stumbled into an anthropology class. And in that class, it was called the history of poverty in America. And while we're studying textbooks and we're studying theories and whatnot, we're actually just studying my family story. And so to be able to trace from slavery, Jim Crow, sharecropping, segregation, first generation free, or an immigrant story into what that means for

lived experiences, I was just seeing the stories of my people and my family. And so it really gave me the tools to understand how systems can impact your lived experience, which is very personal and intimate. And when you think about things like how scarcity affects your stress levels, it affects your health outcomes. It affects, you know, how you see yourself, how you see your communities, like literally everything you experience are impacted by systems. So what were bets on Wall Street for people who had an interest in numbers and markets, et cetera, was real scarcity for my communities.

And so looking at that, I decided, well, I can't change the world. And even if I could do nothing more than just support my family, that would be enough. I just needed to figure out how to take what I had learned and turn it into a toolkit of sorts or some way to help the people that I care about. And that's what really led me into social design. So that's where I am now. I consider myself a social designer, which is really informed by my personal experience, formally trained as an anthropologist and sociologist, and then happened to get lots of business experience working in human-centered design and developing solutions

to change systems. And for those who don't know, can you describe what a social designer is? Because I don't actually know that's a concept or a role that a lot of people are familiar with. It's okay. I get this question every day of my life. So a social designer is someone who thinks about design from the perspective of how we engage socially. So that could be how you perceive yourself, how you relate to other people, how you navigate systems or how institutions navigate or create the world all around us. So a social designer is someone who can look at all of these different types of relationships and say, hey, there's something here that I think if changed could improve the community's

well-being. And that's really my approach. Can we put that into a more tangible, something like tangible that you have changed, like designed differently so is it like it is part of social design like okay um putting policies in place where um let's say you could do it as small as a company so a company changes social design to ensure that all of its images now have reputation of different ethnicities or is it bigger than that? I think it's both. And the scale that I work at is bigger than that. So a great example in Memphis, where I'm from,

we have a lot of people from different communities and lots of different countries and they have refugee and immigrant status. Well, there was a mismatch between like, they really couldn't find employment, especially livable employment because of certain language gaps. So we said, OK, we know they're really talented. We know they come with a lot of food skills and love for food. Let's design food entrepreneurship opportunities and give them the right technical assistance, startup resources, physical space, et cetera, to make sure they have everything they need to thrive and so the role of a social designer is to answer the question what is needed what is wanted and what is viable to create some kind of maybe like a new program or a new policy or a new strategic plan to help make sure that everything needed is in place for people to be successful so are you a creator of equity almost? That was my big learning that I learned.

Really, honestly, I always really believe in like vulnerable conversations. And I really didn't understand my white privilege in going into 2020 at all. Obviously, I only had just moved from the UK to the States. And so I didn't actually understand the difference between equality and equity either at that point. And the sense of my understanding is like, you know, equality, everything is equal, but the point is we don't have equality in our systems. And equity is like, there's someone, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is equality is if you're all have the same size stool and equity is like recognizing that you don't you have to give other people bigger stools

to get them to the same point like the stools are different sizes that need to be done to elevate people and so what I'm hearing you're saying is like you're going and looking at okay this there's a stool needs to exist here because the discrepancy is so large we need to change and design new systems and policies etc to make sure these things changes would that be a good way of describing that and please correct me if i'm incorrect in any of that that's a beautiful analogy yeah that's perfect and i would say that you know for anyone who hasn't there's a graphic i believe you're referencing. Yeah, I remember like learning about it. Yeah, the graphic's amazing because what it shows is there's a baseball game, there's a fence, and there are people of different heights.

And they just give everybody an equal size box, and the shortest little guy, it doesn't matter that he's standing on the box, he still can't see over the fence. And I think what that looks like in systems is that if, for example, your family wasn't allowed to even buy a house until like the 1950s, you can't have expected that same family to have generational wealth through real estate because it literally was not allowed. Whereas another family who was allowed might have centuries and decades of property ownership, which equates to political power and more voice in business access, et cetera. So I think that was a perfect analogy. And also, I just want, you know, you were talking about being nine years old and someone, you know, a young girl saying like, hey, why are you different? And not necessarily malice behind

that, but like questioning it and something you hadn't questioned. And I also like from conversations that we've had before, you also shared with me, you know, being from a multiracial family, you actually saw this within your family, right? You start this podcast by saying, you know, some of my family are blonde and blue eyes and some of them have black skin. And tell me like what you were seeing the differences, like talk to me about that from the eyes and the perspective of a young girl. Yeah. Thank you for asking that. So it really showed up for me in school. So the schools I went to were predominantly white. And so like truly there were times where I was the only person of color in my classes. It did not register to me for a very long time that that was meaningful

at all because we really just felt like we were all equal. We were all just little kids. We were just showing up. And everyone was equally talented, equally passionate. And for the most part, there was no issue. But the older we got, I started to recognize that the things my white friends were doing at school were totally foreign or new to the things that my black cousins or my cousins in Trinidad or myself had ever heard of. And so this is a joke I make all the time, but it's not really a joke. I didn't know what an internship was until my junior year of college. And there were kids who I went to school with who had internships in high school. And so it's things like that or traveling to Europe.

Girl, that sounded like something from a book, right? And there were people who I showed up to school with and they were like, oh yeah, I just spent my summer in Europe. And I was like, what does that mean? And so just seeing the opportunity difference that it wasn't about talent, it wasn't about passion. It really was certain individuals and certain communities had more opportunities than others. And that's where I start to see a gap in outcomes. So the ways that my white peers performed outpaced the way that on average, my peers and family of color performed because of opportunity. I love that. And I really appreciate us having this conversation. I know lots of people shy away from this conversation because it is a difficult one. And I just want to encourage anyone

who's listening, this is not a defensive conversation no one needs to feel like bad or the other but it's it's important that we acknowledge it and then decide like you know you talk about social design on this huge scale you're working with you know billion dollar non-profits but we can all take responsibility for what we can do in our immediate circles what we can ask for in our workplaces what we can do within our communities and I think that's also really important um for everyone to be able to take some responsibility and also not to have you know necessarily shame around maybe things that you did ignorantly before but the important thing is we learn and we change and we move forwards um what inspired you so obviously I can hear this story around like okay I want to make this change and um obviously going to college like I'm curious how that journey then developed

into where you're at now and how you became Forbes 30. So? So I'm going to answer that question. One thing I just want to emphasize you said so beautifully is that I really hope if nothing else from this podcast, people recognize that it's okay to not know. And I really hope people don't feel shame around not knowing. I think this work is complex. There's a lot going on. And if you don't know, that's okay.

Just figure out how to learn. Yeah, exactly wanted to say that too because also i'm like okay i don't want to say the wrong thing or ask an insensitive question so i always appreciate like you know a space to be curious yeah and i think that's you know how a lot of a lot of us learn um so thank you for holding a space too and thank you for sharing that because i also think you know the only way we're going to create change is if people learn and they're educated and we put ourselves in positions to be educated and just like we do lots of things in life you're going to make mistakes along the way in that education absolutely and you know some of those mistakes are going to be minor and some of those you need to try and make them as minor as possible.

Like that's your role is to minimize the failures that you make. But yeah, thank you. So of course. So in terms of how I got from really starting out to where I am now, you know, when I graduated college, I thought, OK, I'm passionate. I have a degree. I want to make a difference. Let's go. Crickets. I had no I want to make a difference. Let's go. Crickets.

I had no idea how to get a job. Like, I knew you sent out your resumes. I knew those kinds of things, like the technical career stuff. But I really didn't know how to find, like on social, what we'd call a niche. I didn't know how to find my niche in the professional world. And so I wanted to make a difference. I wanted a job where I could see a tangible impact. And yet I was really struggling. And so I had so many mentor phone calls with phenomenal people

who had no bandwidth. I put in my resume at certain places. I would hear back, but then the culture literally spelled burnout, and I was already burnt out, so that wasn't going to work. And I started a citizenship exam program for people experiencing refugee status or immigrant status with a local nonprofit. I'm teaching that. I pick up two retail jobs. I'm tutoring the ACT. And I'm babysitting. All this is happening.

I'm still broke. So I was like, okay, I need to find something different. So I get that cohort through. And I have a girlfriend who just happens to text me and she says, hey, I work at a design research firm. They're hiring for an anthropologist. You're the perfect fit. Please apply. So it was just like, you know, those things that when they line up, everything happens so quickly and it just works out. That was this job. So I come in as the most junior degreed, the most junior tenure of the group. And I happened to get on a project working with early care and education, and it's just lighting my brain on fire. Like just as a

small, a small nerd moment, 90% of our brains form by age six. So whereas people don't realize that those early years are not just not babysitting, it's really the most critical part of the education continuum. So as I'm learning this and thinking about, you know, what I want to help in communities, education was really the lever that changed my life. So getting to work in this was phenomenal. And I just start asking questions. I start making myself as valuable as possible to our project lead with no end in mind other than a really good product. Well, fast forward toward the end of the project, our company announces that they're closing. And the project lead tells everybody who's involved with the project that, hey, Chloe was actually the brains behind this project. And on this team,

there were PhD anthropologists, there were people with master's degrees in design, all of these things. And it was me that they pointed out. And he said, if you want this project to continue, she's the one you need to hire to design it. Wow. Yes. And so that with that comment, the next company hired me to flesh out the initiative. Can I ask, cause I think this is actually really like a lot of people struggle with this. They are like struggle with sharing their voice. So they're in teams or they're in um you know just working on anything like in the community but they think oh I'm not going to speak up because maybe I'm wrong yeah and so the fact that you are highlighted as someone who was so important to you know support

this project and move this like so and significant in moving this project forwards I'm curious what your confidence was like at that point. Were you just like, oh, I'm just going to share anything and everything? Or did you get nervous sharing your ideas because you were young? You were just out of like college. And, you know, I mean,

I'm thinking back to what my confidence was like at that point. So I'm curious as to what the narrative was where you felt comfortable to give your ideas. Let's take a quick pause to talk about my new favorite all-in-one platform kajabi you know i've been singing their praises lately because they have helped our business run so much smoother and with way less complexity which i love not to mention our team couldn't be happier because now everything is in

one place so it makes collecting data creating collecting payment, all the things so much simpler. One of our mottos at Boss Babe is simplify to amplify and Kajabi has really helped us do that this year. So, of course, I needed to share it here with you. It's the perfect time of year to do a bit of spring cleaning in your business, you know, get rid of the complexity and instead really focus on getting organized and making things as smooth as possible I definitely recommend Kajabi to all of my clients and students so if you're listening and haven't checked out Kajabi yet now is the perfect time to do so because they are offering Boss Babe listeners a 30-day free trial go to kajabi.com slash boss babe to claim your 30-day free trial that's kajabi.com slash boss babe to claim your 30-day free trial. That's Kajabi.com slash Boss Babe. Yeah, so I really wanted to show up intentionally.

And I loved getting to talk about the work and ask questions. So actually, I was really showing up to learn and to offer whatever I could in exchange. So it wasn't that I was showing up trying to be front and center. I was trying to soak in as much as I could and offer back whatever I could in reciprocity. So I didn't think of it as, you know, let me make sure I put myself out in this meeting or let me make sure I'm, you know, very visible. It was more so, I want to make sure this is done right for the community. I want to learn as much as possible because this place is fascinating. And there are so many more people here who know much more than I do. And I have something I can contribute. And so knowing those things, especially thinking about, well, my communities deserve the best. It was really my care that allowed me to speak up.

And so again, it wasn't out of, I just want to be seen. It was this product needs to be the best it can be because our people deserve the best we can give them. And if we're going to be the ones in the decision-making seats, we got to make sure we bring our best. And so from that, yeah, I was talking with the project lead a lot and just able to say, hey, what do you think about this? Or, hey, can you teach me your ideas on this? And I think the openness and curiosity is what eventually created the space for me to just throw out whatever ideas that I had mulling. How do you think your curiosity and that openness was curated there? Because that sounds like, I'm just listening and I'm like, wow, this is so inspiring that, you know, I do think a lot of people struggle to put ideas out there or to ask questions and be curious. I actually think it's

a skill set that is difficult. And particularly in this cancel culture now, you can't be like, you have to be curious in the right places. And just even in the workplace, people are asking questions and learning or whatever they're doing, like any subject. I think there's like a, oh, are you asking that question? How do you not know that question? Or even if that's not happening, people worrying about that not happening. So I love that you've got this like curious growth mindset where you're just like putting yourself up there and you have this heart that's like I'm gonna ask this question because I want to make the best products possible or the best change possible yeah was that like embedded

in you from like your parents or so I mean maybe but I really think it's just partly how I'm wired. And what it comes down to is I love people so much. And I see people as individuals who are just like infinite stories with so much to learn and grow. And I really don't feel as though I'm any better or any less than any other person. And so when I think about, and we've talked about this a little bit, but I really am fueled by mortality motivation. So the understanding that I die one day, and I don't know what comes next, but I know there's a transition of some sort, that's enough to really keep me grounded daily. And when I think about that and I think about, well, okay, if I'm going to die, my time is super precious. And that means a lot to me. But that also means

that like Danielle's time is super precious and Hunter's time is super precious. Like that is something I hold with a sacredness. And so if I get to share time with you, or if I get to, you know, learn from your eyes, that's amazing to me, you know? And when I think about the more we can connect and we're all equally worthy and we can share and broaden each other's perspectives, that gives a more vibrant life. And so really that's what I think of. I know we talk about business. I know this is a podcast about you guys do a great job of being holistic. Behind the scenes, all of us. Yeah. There's a lot of entrepreneurship discussion, but to me, business is not the

main thing. It's not the most important. Your time is and your experience in this world is. And so if I get to share in that with you and we can create things together, like we can learn together, we can grow together, we can hurt together and heal, that to me is what matters. And so I know we talk a lot and have vulnerable conversations about that. That feels like real humanness. That feels like the human condition that I find so so sacred and yeah no I fully agree like that to me is why we started the Boss Babe podcast because it's like the behind the scenes and the real behind the scenes of that because yeah look if you are thinking that money is going to make you happy you are never going to be happy yeah like it's about finding purpose and loving yourself and doing things that

light you up and I I really want to acknowledge that because I think like you know I've met a lot of wealthy people at this point and honestly the ones that are the happiest they're not happy because they like don't get me. I think there's a certain wealth of being able to, you know, put food on the table. And like, you know, I think it's like, what is it above $70,000 a year? It must've gone up now with inflation, but, um, you, your happiness doesn't increase. And I think that's the really important thing to acknowledge that, um, it's about finding what lights you up and going on that journey. And then I think if you go into the types of money being an energy, then yeah,

maybe if you're passionate about something and you're energetically doing these things, yeah, maybe money comes as a result of it and maybe it doesn't too but the point is you're living a life that you love and um that that's the kind of stuff that you can't buy in my opinion but no I'm like glad I'm glad we're talking about this because this is really honestly what lights me up and makes me happy and um I want to kind of bring your story right to the point where you were leaving you know you were recommended that you know you gotta you gotta take this woman with you guys she's been inspirational and really impactful in growing this business and this non-profit and having these you know ideas taken

on so go from where that story left off where of course you went into really starting to make a change on a bigger level. Yeah. So took the idea from what was called Little Bird Innovation to Seeding Success and Porterleaf and built out a program that would restructure the early childhood education industry in Shelby County to redistribute the cost, task, and time burdens that currently hinder early childhood education programs, or some people call them preschool or daycare, from their best quality and sustainability. And so created a model that's a shared services model. I won't get too nerdy because y'all please Google shared services early childhood if you're curious. But built that model out. And then when looked at all the

components, it had a $32 million price tag. And so then spent the next 18 months in funding conversations. So pitching to investors, writing grants, et cetera, to get the full funding before we started. So when we launched the program, it actually was fully funded at $32 million. And had that as a three-year pilot initiative to say, okay, we're going to prove this out. And then ultimately we're going to show the state, hey, this is a really, really great model that's cost-effective. It gives you great outcomes. There's a lot of accountability, really demonstrated leadership, et cetera, in the investment in early care and education. So you all should make this kind of investment and

hopefully do it statewide. So we built this out as a proof of concept to show the state. And when I got that funded, it really was a game changer. And at this point, I struggled with a lot of imposter syndrome getting to this point. I'm sure everybody struggles with it. But especially being in the first-gen space, there wasn't representation that I could really look to. to this point. I'm sure everybody, everybody struggles with it, but I, especially, you know, being in the first gen space, there wasn't representation that I could really look to. So I told myself, okay, you have to lean into your care. You have to lean into your care because if you make this about you, you just will be really frantic. And so making it about my care, I said, okay, I'm going to lead this. And when we got it funded, the organization that's now housed at said, we want you to run it. Design is very different than implementation, which I found out much, much later.

But I said yes, and I was really honored. And at that point, I think something clicked in me where I was like, oh, I'm not just a designer. I'm a CEO. And this is powerful. And at that moment, Instagram has actually been a really powerful tool for me professionally because even if I didn't have exact representation in front of me, it was online. And so I was able to look into things like healing. I was able to look into things like what kind of careers exist, how people approach their careers, especially women. And so in that process, I had heard of, obviously I knew of Forbes 30

Under 30. I recognized how people using an online platform could help increase their visibility and influence. So when this funded, I thought to myself, okay, I know how to write grants. I know that you need a clear mission, you need clear outcomes, and you need to quantify them but also add qualitative data right so when forbes 30 under 30 came up the nominations i said to myself i can write a grant i can write myself a nomination so i nominated myself and i thank you and good for you for sharing that too thank you that's very important most people do share the nominate in the sales of forbes i want people to know and no oneinate yourself. Yeah, go nominate. If anyone is under 30, I was too old once I found out about it. Damn it, I'm too old. But no, go nominate yourself. Yeah, because I thought to myself,

and this story goes back a long ways, but one day I realized in a parallel that if I wanted someone to buy me flowers, it should be me. And so if I wanted things to happen in my life, I should do them. I wanted Forbes 30 under 30. So I nominated myself and then I let it go. So I knew, okay, my job is to show up and put in work and then release the outcome because I can't control that. Right? So I nominate myself. I hear back. And I hear back. I submitted in April. I heard back in October. And this was so funny.

So Randall Lane, he's one of the, I think, like the chief editor at Forbes. He just reaches out and he says, hey, Chloe, got your nomination. We need to do some due diligence. Can you please fill out this form? It's this long form. And it goes into just really trying to verify what I had submitted. And then they say, thank you. You'll hear back when the rest of the world finds out who's on the list. So they don't tell you in

advance. Wow. And so I was like, okay. And I think it was December 3rd of 2019. I was heading into a meeting. I knew the list was launching that day. I had sworn to myself I was not going to check social. I checked my email three minutes before a meeting, and it says, congratulations, Chloe. Welcome to the 2020 class of 430. I screamed. I freaked out. It was so exciting. And I just had this moment of, oh, my gosh, I've put in a lot of work. I learned the strategy of how you position yourself, of how you tell your story, of how

you bet on yourself, and it paid off. And it was just, you know, such a game-changing moment for me. And then I think a month later, the Memphis TEDx chapter reached out and just said, hey, we are really impressed by all you've done. Would you give a TED Talk? And so just these kinds of things of, and that's something I had wanted to, right? Like I told myself one day I'll do a TED Talk, but I hadn't put any action behind it. So these things kind of came at the same time and they were strongly reaffirming that I was not only on the right trajectory, but my strategies were working. Because what showed me I was on the right place was that my values felt aligned. So I really want to caution people like awards

don't show you you're on the right trajectory like accomplishments don't show you that your character and your feelings of alignment and integrity do and there's a strategic part of how you become your own publicist how you run your own pr and how you frame your messaging does um there are indicators of the response that shows you're successful let's talk about framing messaging because I think this is actually really powerful because when you are doing something like yourself where it's so heartfelt and it's so much for the better of society, like we want to get that message out. You want to get that message out. And there are tools and things that you, just you said strategically did if you think about like okay

you went for thought sorry you submitted for forbes 30 and 30 then the tedx you're all you're talking about big publications here that is having influence that is having impact and that is actually elevating the work that you are doing is putting it in front of more people so let's go back to that like what about the strategic ways that you thought about getting your message out there? Yeah. So in my mind, my message is, it's so expansive that I had to boil it down into something simple and digestible. So I just picked three adjectives and I was like, okay, or three nouns. Like, what do I want to make sure when I talk to people, they know about me? And one is that I think it's cool to care. Two, I believe that you can make an impact and not sacrifice

your well-being or your financial stability. And three, that I'm someone who's really open and curious. And so if I can leave somebody with those messages, they likely want to follow up conversation. And then if they don't, that's totally okay. At least they know where I'm coming from. And so that's what I like to show up with. And they're values, but they're values I live by. And so with that, in anything I write, anything I say, it's really in that kind of lane. And so being able to craft my stories and use certain outlets as amplifiers, I knew that the message feels aligned. Whatever I say has got to be in line with those kinds of pillars. And if it's amplified, it's okay because it's a good

message. How did you come up with those? Because I feel like a lot of people listening, it's going to be some of them are going to be like, oh, I know what mine are straight out the gate. I know what mine are. And others are going to be like, oh, I haven't really thought about that before. I have no idea what mine are going to be. Like, how did you explore that? So this is a phenomenal question because I had no idea at first. So I didn't just wake up and know. I realized that I wanted to tell a story, but I needed a better framework for how. And especially because it's so big in my mind that distilling it down was something that was really difficult for me.

So I literally started Googling, like, how to pitch yourself. What do publicists do? What is PR? Like, just the nitty gritty basics. And from there, you know, different tangents or rabbit holes. I started finding people who speak on this, people who teach on this. And I started finding, you know, best practice in the industry standards. But also when I looked at other people's stories, I took note

and said like, what stands out to me here? Or when I think about myself, what do I want to convey to other people? And part of this, and this is really why I tell people like, I think it's cool to care because when you lean into your care and you understand what that looks like, you actually learn a lot about yourself. Like we call this kind of knowledge like business intelligence. It's like personal intelligence, right? Like, do you know yourself? And I know that I care. So if I can convey that, then again, it just helps me be more energetic or more open to opportunities. So really it was looking like Google was my best friend and saying like, what is life? What is character? What is, you know, PR? Like all of these things.

And it started making sense to me from there. And I think it loops back around to that other value that you have, which is curiosity and openness, because that's why you're like willing to go, hey, what is this for me? Like, how do I Google this? And I think that it honestly isn't a skill to be or a value to be underrated quite honestly I think those who are open-minded and curious I generally see doing really well because they're open to change they're open to learning they're open to like oh like this belief system doesn't serve me anymore and I get to change it to move forwards and I think the definition

of sanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different outcome right and I think it's really powerful for people to remember that when they keep doing the same thing and they're not being curious and they're not being open to a different approach or a different way of doing things and when people are like oh it's okay for you or it's okay for me or I can't possibly do that or you know like always looking for an external reason I think that's giving away so much power versus okay well how could I be curious about learning and one thing I want to say too is for women especially of this is actually a fourth pillar that I adopted maybe a couple years ago was that I was going to be unapologetic about my excellence. Ooh, I like that.

That's my boss, babe. Thank you. I know. That's why I like y'all. But yeah, I decided. I was like, you know, I'm really good at what I do. I know that. And that's not arrogant.

That's actually healthy self-esteem. And so being in that, and because my work impacts communities, they need my best. And so I can't be apologetic about my best because that hinders what I give to my communities. And so with that, another key thing I wanted people to know about me is that I'm going to give you the best product. And because I've led with that, I led with my care, I was appointed by our Lieutenant Governor to lead a multi-billion dollar strategic plan to redesign what early care and education looks like for the future of Tennessee. And it's because I didn't sit back and I didn't put myself on the back burner because I was afraid of judgment or I was afraid that people would think of me in all kinds of

ways. I also, all of my peers are at least 20 years my senior. They're all people who are, you know, mid to towards the like tail end of their careers and, you know, have a very, they're wonderful people. I don't, this is not disparaging their character at all, but they very much have a sense of like we're seasoned and we got here. So I'm a newcomer and they've welcomed me, which is great, but it's also because of how I presented myself. And so this is something I so appreciated about you uplifting for me was helping explain that, yeah, you don't have to be an entrepreneur to make a large scale impact. Like I'm leading a multi-billion dollar strategic plan and this is not out of my entrepreneurship. That's something totally different. And because of this, there's also, I can't give details just because it's still in the works, but another state has asked me to do the same thing.

And so it's just like there are whole states asking me to do like multi-billion dollar strategic plans for them to help communities have better like just ways of being, you know, and better resources. And it's because I said, I care, I'm curious, I'm open, I'm pretty nonjudgmental, and I'm going to give you excellence. And there's something very human, I think, about that. And I think I'm also very quick to say what I don't know. So there's not a sense of it's got to be my way or the highway. I think that's really the essence of a true designer is being able to hold space for people, hold space for ideas, and figure out what in all of this comes together to best serve our people. And so for women who are listening or anybody who struggles with confidence, I actually

think confidence and your ability to execute just come to a sense of actually humility and feeling like you don't have to be the best one out there. You don't have to be an incredible rock star to be valuable. You just need to be you and you just need to care and you need to have a sense of, I'm going to figure this out even if I don't know, and just be open to what that process looks like. Because if you told homegirl back when she graduated from college that she was going to be leading multi-billion dollar strategic plans and being sought after for this, when I didn't even know how to get a job in my field, I don't know. I would have just gone to sleep. I would have laughed at you.

I would have been like, nope, going to get some chips. Like, I don't know what that means. But being open and being myself and requiring excellence, not in a self-punitive way but in a way that lights me up has opened all kinds of doors that I was I had enough humility to walk through you are so freaking inspiring just like listening to you I'm just like holy shit like no wonder states are fighting over you um let's talk about that though because I think this is also really important. Like you spoke about being like owning your excellence. And I really commend that. And I think that's actually not encouraged enough.

And I don't want to say in women. I don't want to make that judgment. But I feel like it's not encouraged enough in certain cultures maybe as a federal. Because even from the UK, they're like, like if you like shout we always used to say like in the uk um this was just my opinion this was just a general opinion and what i knew to be true in my world was that you know the uk you have to play down your wins like oh don't shine too bright they're not gonna be flat no one's gonna like you for that like you, and we always used to think like Americans, like really good at shouting themselves out, right?

And so I just think it's really like, and as if that was like a bad thing. Yeah. Like, ooh, you can't say you're good at something. Like how arrogant of you. Yeah. And as I've got older and I've met amazing people, and I think don't get me wrong, arrogance exists, but I also think that's like mislabeled.

And sometimes it surprising someone just feeling like you know what I'm good at this and I want to own it I'm also really shit at that and I'm gonna own that too but I want to own the things I'm good at yeah and I want to be able to share things I'm good at and like what that does for you because I hear that in your story like you've owned the things that you've been good at you've also like you said you've had humility you've like shared I don't know everything but I do know this thing and I wonder if like sharing that has allowed your career to probably like 10x 20x 30x because if you like you say you're working with people a lot older than you and just like that getting that message across to people that it's

okay to own your stories and it's okay to own who you are what you're good at and also what you're not good at yeah how have you shared that with the world too because you know it's important to have a um a message and a social like you're doing something like you're making changes but that change is hard to see you know if you don't share it yeah right and I think your your conversation that I had with you that's actually really um like how we ended up getting to know each other was because of influence at school because you wanted to share this message more I think even doing your TEDx talk right you were there to share a message so talk to me talk to me about that how you feel that you know social media or platforms have helped you get to where you are

and have more impact than you would have done perhaps otherwise? Yeah. So I'll answer this in two part. The first part is that back to the piece you were saying about, you know, owning what you're good at and also owning what you can grow in. I think it's because we've been taught that humility means no self-esteem and that you just deny every compliment. You don't explain that you're good enough or good at anything. And to me, that's actually, again, that's just destroying your sense of self. Where I think confidence is something that you don't have to even tell other people. You can own what you're good at without telling other people.

And that's for me a lot. Honestly, sometimes the feedback I get is my community saying, hey, you should tell us more things because you do these great things and then say nothing. But it's because it's for me, right? And it's not that I'm hiding it from people, but I appreciate it. I internalize it and like soak up the goodness. And then I'm moving on. Did you do Forbes 30 and the 30 for you or for other people? Oh, absolutely. I did it for me and it was actually uncomfortable when other people saw it and I had to deal with that. Yeah, I had to deal with it. It's funny, it feels so good to me and I'm so proud of it. And it was other people's

praise that made me uncomfortable. And so that's something, you know, maybe I'll work through in therapy, but it was also really kind. Like I saw the kindness. And I think the same thing is true when showing up on social. So at first, I also am so culprit to the initial understandings of social back in, like, the 2010s of people really just trying to flex on the gram, right? And I was not into it. But the more I realized that this is a real way people communicate, this is a real, like, this is our culture. This is our world. You know, the way we communicate. This is a real, like this is our culture. This is our world. You know, the way we are connected now is largely digital. When I recognized that and how much you can do from the comfort of wherever you want to be, it occurred to me that, you know,

if I want to help people feel a little better in their skin, and if I would like the opportunity to help change our systems and our narratives, social is a great way to do that. And so I really started looking for, and this is kind of what we were talking about earlier, I like to put myself in the position to learn and to use strategy. And I had followed Boss Babe for years, so mega fan. And when I saw that you guys were doing influencer school, I couldn't help but say to myself, like, I've been doing this for years. I'm not really sure of the strategy. I get really disoriented when I don't have a good strategy in front of me or the tools.

Yeah, it's hard for me. And so I have to know the North Star. I have to, like, roughly know where I'm going. Yes, because if not, I feel like I'm just throwing, like, things against the wall. I think that's a personal attitude. I don't think everyone has that, but that for me. I think it's a J in Myers-Briggs. Oh, I have it too. Yeah, I wall. I think that's a personal entourage. I don't think everyone has that, but that for me. I think it's a J in Myers-Briggs.

Oh, I have it too. Yeah, I'm also a J. And you guys are so good at what you do. And for me, I had spent $10,000 in courses trying to figure out social media and business and my platform. When I saw you all doing influencer school, I just immediately joined. And I thought to myself, okay, I'm going to join this and I'm not going to be a rock star. I'm not going to aim to hit a home run. I'm going to aim to be consistent. And I'm going to aim to be excellent for me because I'm investing in me. I'm investing in my growth. I'm investing in learning how to tell my story. And I'm learning from

incredible experts with real results and repeated results. So start influencer school with that in mind. I show up to every coaching call. I'm doing the work. I'm hopefully giving encouragement to other students as much as I can. And the results were phenomenal. I started influencer school with my Instagram platform hitting right at about 6,000, which I was really proud of. So you should be. And, you know, through the 90 days, I grew to 10.4K. Which is insane.

So we went from 6,000 to 10.4K in 90 days. Yes. Holy moly. Yeah, and it really was showing up, being consistent, and doing the work, which I'm not even going to say I know people don't like to hear. I didn't like to hear it. But I didn't like to hear it because I didn't know what the work meant. I didn't know how to do it.

And Influencer School gave me the how. So it was really great to not only have that support, but you, Amy, Natalie, and Hunter were awesome. Like any questions I had, y'all were on it. Y'all gave great detail. Y'all were also very affirming. And I would even like chat y'all during the Zoom calls and be like, thank you so much. And you're like, are you welcome? So it just felt like a really great connection. And it really was, you know, the support that I got from you all that not only helped me stay consistent, but helped me start putting the pieces together that I had been researching and learning for years. But hearing you all implement, seeing you all in action, going through the curriculum, and really being on the coaching calls helped me

with cohesion and helped me put the strategy together. And that's where everything started unlocking. So whereas, yes, you can learn online. Yes, you can try to like piecemeal things together. There's nothing like a cohesive and robust system of support to help you in a really logical way, develop your own systems. And that's one of the biggest things I got from influencer school. Do you, and I'm really glad we're talking about this, not from like an influencer school perspective, but from a perspective of using platforms to support the change you want to see and understanding how you can leverage a strategy to have impact with your bigger goals. Because for me, my bigger goal is to like help women earn wealth.

Like I want to teach more women how to make more money. And, you know, we have a lot of conversations behind the scene around what that looks like. Like what are the different avenues that we can teach? And that's why we always say our courses are no fluff, they're no BS, and we hold nothing back. We never keep the best stuff for ourselves at all. We're like, here, this is everything we know about social media, plus more that we've learned from experts and we're going to bring them in to come and teach you and I think there is such power with social media and sharing things like this actually creates social change it kills me the pay gap it absolutely kills me that the VC funding it's like less than two percent going to women. And it's like, these are the things that

I really care about and want to make a change. And I know if I can build my platform, I can have a bigger voice. I can make that change. I can have more power behind that change. And that's what really, really drives me. And I feel like when you do, I think it's rare for social media to actually be natural to someone. Like I think there are some people it's very natural, but I would argue the majority of people, it's not natural to put yourself on social media all the time. Like it's not, you know, something you're like, Oh yeah, like I'm just going to do this in this moment. And I'm actually going to grab my phone and record it. So I think that a lot of people are motivated to do it because they are driven by a why.

And for some, that why is significance. As Tony Robbins talks about, I've had him on the podcast before and he talks about, you know, there's these core things that people are driven by and significance is a big one for someone. But then there's also, you're driven by the why. Like, I'm so driven by the why of other people I went on social media last night with no makeup really not like I wasn't even planning to but someone tagged me in a post that said I'd inspired them and I was like shit this is why I need to be on social media I need to tell them this is why I come on because it's like I don't do it for me like I do it so that other

people can know that they can do it too yeah and I think that's what I see in like your your mission is less about you and more about the impact that you're having and I think when you can connect that why so strongly it motivates you to move it motivates you to show up it motivates you to put yourself in positions that you don't want to be on like you're coming on this podcast today were you nervous or how did you feel coming out honestly I had some some pre-nerves until I saw your face and then I was like okay but that's the point but you came on too because why yeah so it's exactly like what you've already said. It's my care. And getting to have a conversation with you is incredible. And getting to be in front of like on the Boss Babe

podcast is a dream. And I hope that people feel a bit better about themselves and inspired in their lives so that they can feel a little better. And I'm someone who I have an anxiety disorder. I have dyspnea, which is like a really subtle form of depression. And so I know how the day-to-day, like what your energy is can affect what you feel like your life is. And so I plug into resources to nourish my mind all the time so that I'm constantly cultivating like what I want internally to be this lush garden in my mental space. And Boss Base Podcast is definitely part of my routine. like what I want internally to be this lush garden in my mental space and boss based podcast is

definitely part of my routine I try not to show how much of a fangirl I am but it's so strong I just had Lisa Belio on before you and I found I mean she's a friend and I still fangirl I made her sign my book I was like can you sign my book and I was like and then she's signing I was like no no can you write me a message? I'm not selling it. I want a personalized message, Lisa. So I appreciate that. I really want to say, you know, I was listening to Yul's episode with Pyle. And when you started talking about the VC funding and the gaps, one of the things I really believe about building a platform is that, you know, a lot of people see social change and they think, oh, I can.

And there are levels to it. You can have, you know, a lot of people see social change and they think, oh, I can, and there are levels to it. You can have, you know, individual contributions to another human. You can donate as a philanthropist. You can give people the tools to make change. And then there's changing systems, which is, yes, only 2% of VC funding goes to women, period. And then you can disaggregate that to see like women of color, queer women, differently abled women, period, and then you can disaggregate that to see like women of color, queer women, differently abled women, what have you, and see the disparities there, that's very real. And Danielle Canty can become the VC funder, right? And you can be the one who's saying, okay, I know this is a barrier. I'm going to remove that barrier for women, right? Or for whomever. And there are so many barriers like that, that when you remove them,

it's one thing to give people tools, but when you remove barriers, people soar. That is just like a proven fact. All the data shows it out. Sometimes people think, oh, well, people are just lazy or they have the tools. Why don't they do something about it? In 2018, the US Department of Labor showed that of the women not in the workforce, 70% said not having access to childcare was why they couldn't have a full-time job. But there's no amount of skills that can compensate for not having access to childcare. And so if your choice is leave my child, my infant by themselves and go to work or stay home and make sure my infant stays alive and healthy, that's not a choice. And so, yes, it's one thing to get to inspire people.

It's one thing to, you know, do individual acts of kindness and to give people tools to learn how to do things. But I firmly believe, and this is what I want my platform to really be about, is that when you educate people that there are barriers at a systemic level and how to move them out the way of people, you really see communities start to soar. And that's where I believe social impact shines brightest. I love that. I can see Bopo in the corner of our eye, our social media manager, nodding along too. And I feel like this is getting us so excited. It's so true. I could not agree more. And I had Pocket Sun, she's one of the co-founders of SoGal on here. Like before we were actually doing video, but I was so inspired by her story, her and

her business partner, Elizabeth. They started a VC company in their twenties. um and with the whole sole purpose of investing in women and mainly women of minority women of color yeah i'm in their companies and i was so inspired by her i was like i've never i've never invested in a vc fund before like how do i invest out of it yeah and honestly that fund because this is what gets even better this is why i'm so freaking passionate about investing in women too that fund is my best performing investment i have ever made hell yeah of course because exactly of course it is there are women running these companies out of my stocks out of my shares everything i've done that is my number one best asset return

and I'm like just shows you what happens when you invest in also something that you believe in too and I yeah I think I I'm very inspired by this conversation and I'm also like oh wow like I actually get to move more barriers too and I I think it's always a great reminder, you know, I think hearing and having these conversations and being open to like, oh, actually there's more I can do. There's more things that I can do as well. And what's next and always like moving through that, I think is really important. And that's why I'm so inspired and excited for you to share more of your story on social media because you know I mean what you're doing there's probably at the level that you're doing it not that many people yeah you know in control of these amounts of funds and changing these systems the way you are what's next for you

yeah so what's next for me is really helping other people do what I've done in their own flavor. So I want to see creatives, artists, maybe future politicians, people who are great in the business space to understand that they can also lead large-scale social impact without having to be a career activist or community organizer. You can be the best basket weaver in the world and also change education for a community. Like really it's the core skills of creativity, the open-mindedness, the understanding, you know, there are real practices to make sure you're not harming communities, make sure that your resources are actually well deployed, not just, you know, being wasted. So there are real things that you need to know. But if you care and you

want to see a change in the world, you can make it happen. And I want to be one of the people in your cheerleading group that is helping you make it happen. So I will be coaching through Instagram and also just showing up for people there. And on the other side, I'm a practitioner at heart. So while I want to help other people do the same, I also want to work with businesses or platforms like Obsessed with Boss Babe. Would love to see how you all change how entrepreneurship and women's interactions look for the future. Like Boss Babe to me is a leader in this industry. like this, helping them figure out their own social impact and helping, you know, especially people who have existing platforms learn how to leverage that for social change and then let them run with it.

Like, I want to help them get there and then just build it on that. So that's what's next for me. I love that. And 100%, I am like here to be curious. I open and learn. And I think that's what makes Boss Babes so unique as well. It's like, you know, how we can leverage it for the better and for social change as well. And that we want to do it.

And it's not about Natalie and I. It's not the Natalie and Danielle show. It's about all the women that are part of it. It really is about the community. And when I go on any of the calls that we have where it's a society, like our membership for female entrepreneurs or whether it's Influencer School that you were part of, I'm like so excited to see people, like women from all over the world

of different backgrounds, of different cultures, of different classes. Like that is really exciting to me because then also like ideas grow when people talk. Like it's the, I think that's the only thing I will say about so um social media is the echo chamber with the algorithm I think is actually really dangerous that's the one thing that you get used to being shown the same same thing over and over again actually I will say if anyone's listening to this go try and like go down new rabbit holes if you're

if you see someone on a podcast or you'll see someone in the media or somewhere go and follow them if it's a little bit different to what you would normally be watching and looking at and then you'll be surprised at the different like variety that you will get then from the algorithm versus the same same same because i think we all owe it to ourselves to be open and curious continuously and that's how we grow in all the ways and how society ultimately gets better i love that um i would love for you chloe just to share like the ways and how society ultimately gets better. I love that. I would love for you, Chloe, just to share like your handles and how people can follow you. I want to put a link to your TEDx talk as well, because that was so powerful. Do you want to give a title again about purpose and wellness? Yes. It's called Stop Chasing Purpose and Pursue Wellness. And it's,

girl, this title has got people up in arms, but the gist of it is that, yeah, you'd be very surprised. But most people have found that, yes, watch the talk. Most people have found that the concept is a bit radical, but really calming to your nervous system and to just like your life story. But it's really on how if you pursue wellness first, which is really pursuing you first, everything else becomes much more beautiful. So I won't give the whole topic. I like that because I feel like purpose is such a buzzword that then people get tripped up on and really confused by a lot of the time. Actually, I want to pause on this for a second. Why did you choose to do that title? Yeah. So purpose for me actually stems from, I mean, I had a religious upbringing.

And really, it was like, if you do good, then you'll be worthy. And I actually think that that was wrong. I think that you are good and you are worthy. And your life is the first responsibility you're given. And so your goal, if you will, should be to be a good steward of your own life, not trying to fix everyone else, not trying to be of service so that you in a backhanded way,

find out that you're worthy. You're already there. And so when I realized that and started taking care of myself, all the things I wanted to do became 10 times better anyways because I was healthy and I was content and I wasn't putting the very heavy expectations of fulfilling my worth on my projects or on my loved ones or on my dog. I wasn't outsourcing

the internal work. And that's really what I want people to see is that you have so much power in your own life and in how you perceive yourself. And it starts by just taking care of you. And that's what I was hoping people would get. I feel like you're a old soul in a young body. You're very, you're probably one of the wisest guests I've had on here. I feel like there's so many little sound bites. I just want to replay to myself. And I know you'll have inspired so many women listening to this. Inspired to, you know, perhaps maybe if they're not doing it already in their lives, to look at the social impact that they can have. Because I think that's where it starts. It starts there. It starts on the ground and it starts like just like you were saying you can do these things and like working up to like

what are the what are the blocks that we can all be responsible for moving so thank you for coming on thank you for coming on and educating inspiring leading all of those things so let's share your social handles as well Chloe yes I am Chloe Hackam hackham more h-a-k-i-m m-o-o-r-e on all my platforms so um really instagram is the best way to connect with me thank you so much for coming this is amazing for having me if you enjoyed this episode we would love it if you subscribed and left us a review. Let us know what you enjoyed, what your main takeaways were, and who you'd like to see appear on the show. As a special thanks, we'll send you a copy of our Boss Babe 25.

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