the bossbabe podcast - 220. The Struggles Of Balancing Motherhood And Business With REAL Housewife Heather Dubrow

Episode Date: May 31, 2022

Heather Dubrow is an actor, reality TV star and fellow podcaster – and most importantly a mom. In this week’s episode of the bossbabe podcast, Heather is sharing her approach to motherhood and how she’s been able to prioritize her family above all else – while also striving for her ambitious goals.  The behind-the-scenes of REAL housewife – Heather Dubrow. Plus – she’s sharing her story of becoming a REAL Housewife and giving her tips for building a healthy, strong marriage that can withstand whatever life throws at you. You do not want to miss this episode. Listen now.  Highlights: What it really looks like to balance motherhood and business – and whether “balance” is what we should even strive for at all The unexpected story of how Heather became a REAL Housewives star Heather’s practical tips to building a strong, healthy marriage The compliment Heather got from Rihanna that stuck with her forever Links: Heather Dubrow’s World Listen to Heather’s podcast! The Société – Join our private, online community of female entrepreneurs where you can connect, build and grow. Just Thrive – Use code BOSSBABE for 20% off your order of JustThrive products! Follow: bossbabe: @bossbabe.inc Danielle Canty: @daniellecanty Natalie Ellis: @iamnatalie Heather Dubrow: @heatherdubrow YouTube: bossbabe: subscribe

There are people out there who are dreaming about what you already have right now. And I think like if I had had a crystal ball back then, and someone would have said, it's going to be okay. Like you're going to be fine. It's all going to work out. It would have relaxed me a lot more. So I don't know. It's a little bit of a conundrum. But I guess what I would say is, yeah, be super happy where you are right now, but don't be complacent.

A boss babe is unapologetically ambitious and paves the way for herself and other women to rise, keep going and fighting on. She is on a mission to be her best self in all areas. It's just believing in yourself. Confidently stepping outside her comfort zone to create her own vision of success. Welcome to the Boss Babe Podcast, the place where we share with you the real behind the scenes of building successful businesses, achieving peak performance, and learning how to balance it all. I'm Danielle Canty, Boss Babe co-founder and your host for today's episode. Now, I'm really excited about who our guest is today because you just know you are going to get the upfront untold truths when you welcome this lady on. Let me give you a hint. She's a mum of

four. She stars on The Real Housewives of Orange County. She's married to E's botched resident doctor and has more businesses than I've had a hot dinner. Okay. Well, that's maybe a slight exaggeration, but Heather Dubrow is a powerful businesswoman. She's an actress and her podcast, Heather Dubrow's World, is absolutely huge in our space. And I was honored and excited to find out all the details of how she juggles family, fame, and fortune. And that's what we're diving into this episode because the multifaceted mom sat down with me to dish on all the things. We're talking fame, fortune, and family and how she does and doesn't balance it all. Because let's be honest, this balancing it all, does that really exist? It's really questionable. And she gets really candid with us. She's kept her career and marriage alive

through 20 years. I think she'd been married now, but she reveals it's not always been easy, but she does give some pretty good tips on how we can manage our own. And whilst Heather is really crushing it right now on the screen, we actually get into some of the details about her most challenging role in her life and that's being a mom. And as a mom of four, she shares that it can be really, really rewarding, but also it's a never ending role. And I know lots of mothers listening to this, like, yep, you could say that again. And I really want to say thanks to Heather because she really opens up on how she maintains her relationship with her kids and how she encourages their confidence to be who they want and accept who they are, especially with a plastic surgeon as a dad, which I've thought and asked her about because I was like, wait, how do you balance that

with particularly like young girls too? Like how do you balance that when their dad is a plastic surgeon and talking about surgery? So that was a really interesting conversation that we had there. But also we really spoke about what it is to be a working mother and a businesswoman and supporting the family. I don't want to spoil all the tea on this, but Rihanna also gave her a phenomenal compliment recently. And we dive into that a little bit further about how that came about and what that actually means to Heather. But I just want to say, if you want to listen to this episode, just know that there's a lot of relatable advice. I feel like a lot of you who are moms are definitely going to be nodding your head along to this and it's okay that none of us are perfect and we never strive to be. And

I was thinking about when I titled this podcast, whether it should be like balancing motherhood. And I was like, do you know what? I think it's more about struggling to balance motherhood and business. So I hope this helps and you definitely feel not alone in this journey. So let's dive in and have this conversation with our real housewife on and off the screen, Heather Durow. Heather, welcome to Boss Babe Podcast. Trying to make myself more presentable. I'm a hot mess today. I have like 12 children going in 14 directions. I went to the infrared sauna, so I do feel like I've sweated all out, but... That's it. The energy is being released. But I'll tell you what, it's actually like,

I had some planned questions for you and we're going to come to this because one of them was like, how do you do it all? Because I was like reading essentially your resume. And I was like, how does this, does this woman have like some kind of like special time clock that allows her to have more time than the average person? I can't even tell. You know what's so funny? You go through these periods of time in your life where everything is sort of controlled and you have your schedule and you know what you're doing. And then everything goes to hell sometimes. And not even like it's a bad stuff. It's just insanity. That is where my life is like literally today.

Well, I love the honesty about that because I really do feel like quite often, like we put some people on a pedestal and we're like, oh my God, my life's a mess. Everyone else's life is perfect. They have their shit together all the time. They don't have these problems. And I think it's just really refreshing to have this conversation about, oh no, no, my life is at time to shit show. Not all the time, but quite often it happens. But I think that's the problem with social media and most particularly Instagram is that so many of those people's, you know, sites are like very curated and I get it. You know, people are trying to, you know, do a brand and build a business and show a certain part of their life. But I just feel like, my gosh,

if we could all just be a little more honest with what's going on, I think it would serve us all a lot better. I could not agree more. And I don't know about you, but that's why I love podcasting. Cause like you actually get to like the meat of it and like what is going on in people's lives. So that for me makes it way more fun. So let's, I'm going to kind of change my, I was kind of going to start with like marriage and children that, but I want to start with career now. Now you've like, now we've just come in being like, we're having problems. And also I think this is really good if I want to know we're having tech problems. We're doing all these things. Nothing always goes smoothly. You kind of get this

presentation on YouTube and in the audio about exactly what's happening on the podcast, but really there's a whole lot of faff that goes into it beforehand. And when I was reading, like I said, your, um, bio, et cetera, of everything that you've done, like from being an actress, to be an entrepreneur, to having skin line products, to having a wildly successful YouTube and an incredibly, I think you're over a hundred million downloads or something on your podcast. I think it's 150 at this point. Like insane. And I really kind of wanted to start like, how do you fit this? I'm like, does she have an assistant?

Does she have like a whole, like, how are you doing this, Heather? Please tell me. You know, you kind of, it's like anything else in life. You sort of figure it out as you go along, right? So when I was younger, you know, before I met Terry, before I had children,

I was a full-time working actress. And then, you know, your life sort of, you know, shifts that I met Terry and, you know, we ended up getting married and I was still working and then we had kids and then, you know, like it just, you figure it out as you go along. What has, was hard for me, quite frankly, was the shift of going from being a full-time working person to a full-time stay-at-home mom. And this was before, you know, streaming and internet and social media and all this. I mean, we had the internet, but I mean, we didn't have like all the different ways to create content that you have now. And so it was like very depressing to be so active and creative all the time to all of a sudden, you know, I started with twins and

then the third came soon after. It was very difficult for me. Then, you know, after a period of time and getting into reality television and my podcast and television hosting and writing books and products and all that and going in those different directions, you do start to realize that you can still have your path. Maybe it's a little different and not exactly what you thought it was going to be, but still feel creative and feel great about yourself, but able to do it in a way that you can honor the other parts of your life. Because for example, when I was on TV, like some shows I was on, I was working 17 hours a day and I loved it. I mean, literally it was up at three 30 in the morning. I was skipping to the set. Like I really, really loved it. But for me, not for everyone and not judging anyone that does this, but for me, I,

when I became a mom, I wanted to be there. So what was really important to me and what still is important to me is that I tend to take jobs and take on things that I can do while they're at school. But now, and so that's what I've been doing for the last several years, but now my two oldest ones are graduating high school and they're going off to college. Then I only have two left at home. So then there's the next shift. Do you think it's like a layering effect? And I do, I have noticed this and I'm going to even call myself out as a millennial. Sometimes you're like, oh, but I wanted it all now. Like I want it all yesterday. Like, and it's really something that I've really battled with being like, okay, I can be like, I can be content with where I'm at now and know that I have like several years ahead of me.

But I do feel like that has to be really intentional thought process for me, particularly. And I know normally if I'm suffering from something, a lot of our listeners are too. And it's like, just hearing you there, it's like now, you know, I'm reading all this stuff and like, oh my God, she has all these things. And like you say, you just have seasons of it as well. Like, okay, I was a full-time actress. Then I had that break with the children, which is not a break at all. I shouldn't use that word very wisely. Break from working for sure. But you're right. And I think the thing is, is that I wasted a lot.

If you can, a life lesson for me is I honestly wasted a lot of time being upset over things that I didn't have. Now I'm not saying I didn't enjoy my kids and see them and I really did. And I was the Daisy troop leader. I was room mom. Like I, I feel like I did not for all of them. I peaked a long time ago. The second dude

didn't really get as much as the first. But you've got four. So you're like, okay. Yeah. Or maybe that's just the last one. But, but the truth is I really enjoyed it and experienced, but there was definitely a piece of me that was like, but I don't have this. And I think that age and experience has helped me with that. But I do love, you know that quote that people say, there are people out there who are dreaming about what you already have right now. And I think if I had had a crystal ball back then and someone would have said, it's going to be okay. You're going to be fine. It's all going to work out. It would have relaxed me a lot more. Having said that, if I was relaxed, would I have tried so hard with the things that I wanted to do?

So I don't know. It's a little bit of a conundrum, but I guess what I would say is, yeah, be super happy where you are right now, but don't be complacent. And like where you're at right now, and because you have lots of different things going on and like you say, two are going off to college, but two children are going to be at home still. But like how, what support network have you surrounded yourself with? Because we have a lot of entrepreneurs listening and they're at different stages. Some are starting out, some are more advanced than others. We have a lot of career women. And I'm just curious, what support you've given yourself in the home

and then immediately in your businesses, which has allowed you to multiply your time? Because I feel like this is another thing that a lot of people don't talk about is the people around them that help them multiply their time in a way. Yeah, that's a good question. I mean, it's definitely changed over the years.

I did a very classic mom mistake when my kids were very, very young, where I would have someone come watch my kids so I could run errands and go to the grocery store and do all that stuff. And then I woke up one day and said, no, no, no, wait a minute. I got to hire someone to do all that stuff so that I can hang out with the kids. Like I had like that aha moment where I switch it. And I think I've had lots of moments in my life like that, where I realized that I'm, my support system isn't actually being supported. And I will say this, and I know anyone out there that has been in business long enough and has been successful, you kind of have seen it all, you know, the employees that are

phenomenal and supportive and great and the ones that really aren't and you put your eggs in the wrong basket. But I think the thing is this, I mean, no one stays forever and that's okay. I think, you know, sort of the metal of how you are is how you sort of end relationships with people and what you're continuing. And sometimes, unfortunately, it's not possible to do with everyone, but I'm really proud of the fact that everyone that's ever worked in my house and all, like we're all still friends. My kids are in their weddings. We talk like it's really, really wonderful. I love supporting women. Um, I will tell you that sometimes it's easier to do it yourself. I wholeheartedly agree with that one. But it's such a balance between... I was having

this conversation with Natalie the other day, my business partner, and we were just chatting around like, sometimes you feel like it's easier to do it myself. And I was like, when does it become the point now that it's like... Because you did, it's like 80% is done and not aiming for a hundred percent. I'm like, I wonder if 20% is actually like, okay, well I would have done this way, but the job still got done. And so I should probably just let that go. And it's really like being like, okay, well, if I micromanage everything, or if I feel like I need everything done my way, then maybe I'm not actually going to get anything done. And like, I'm showing this because I have this battle all the time in my head. I'm like, wait, but I would everything done my way, then maybe I'm not actually going to get anything done. And like, I'm showing this because I have this battle all the time in my head.

I'm like, wait, but I would have done this so differently. And I felt like my way would have turned out better. But if I had waited to do it my way, I probably would never have got around to it. Right. So I think it depends what it is. Okay. So an easy example would be like throwing a party. I think it's really important to surround yourself. Once you get someone in your world that you work well with and you get each other, keep them.

Okay. So I have this fabulous girl, Nicole Reinemann that I've worked with for years. And, you know, we have a very good shorthand. So if I'm throwing a dinner party or something like that, or I need a gift wrapped, made, personalized something, or if I need a logo for something. We work together on all those kinds of things. I will call her. Even the logo's behind me for the podcast, which I know is weird. You can see my clips right now. It's not zoomed in. My technology is terrible. I need a new tech person, by the way. But we have a shorthandand and I will call her and say, hey, I want something that looks like X, Y, and Z. And she just gets me. And truthfully, something as important as a logo, you would micromanage, but something like a dinner party,

it doesn't really matter. So if it's not a hundred percent what the vision was, but it's really great and you didn't have to suffer all of it and micromanage the whole thing. Those are the moments you let go. Now, if you're going to pitch a television show and you're writing a deck, you need to be involved in every piece of that because when it is important like that and when it is life-changing and really important to you, your career, your trajectory. You've got to be involved in it. So honestly, it really is about making choices. Now, those are extreme, a party and a career-altering moment.

But even within those categories, there are moments that you can release. Yeah, no, I really hear that. And I think that's such a great lessons. Cause like sometimes it's like, Oh, you get hung up on the smaller things that aren't actually going to have a big impact in your career. And I want to talk about that because you have like your career, like you first, what, 1994, you were first appearing on television. God, I think 90. Yeah. Well, I'm like curious, like it's really hard in show business, particularly to have navigated such a long career, particularly as a woman. I really want to understand how much of that is intentional. How much of that is look like, how have you strategically thought about this? And also I hope like the conversation today,

like I obviously, I know I can see so much of your personality on Real Housewives, also I hope like the conversation today, like I obviously, I know I can see so much of your personality on Real Housewives, but I'm like, what is the business woman behind this brand? Like, I want to know how your brain works. Okay. So, um, oh wait, but the first part of the question, the first part of the question, you know, longevity, I mean, it's everything it's luck, timing, talent, all intersecting, you know, longevity, I mean, it's everything. It's luck, timing, talent, all intersecting, you know, together. And it's tenacity. I mean, you have to stay in it. You have got to keep moving forward. And I think that it's funny because other people might look at my career and go, oh my gosh, look at all the shows and the books

and the products and the this and the that. But to me, I look at my career and I go, I know I'm super proud of everything that I've done. But there's big holes for me. You know, I always, I initially thought I was going to Broadway. That was my, that was my career. I was a musical theater person and I still haven't done that. And I feel like that's a bucket that I'd like to fill. I'd like to be back on stage again. There's things that I feel like I haven't done yet, so I'm not satisfied at all. And I don't mean that to sound ungrateful for everything that I have and everything I've accomplished, but I just, there's these other things for me. And I think that's really, I think a lot of people relate to that too. And it's kind of like what we started off by saying this in conversation is like, oh,

often like you want the things that someone else has. And also you can still be grateful and still want to go after those things as well. You's okay. I believe that that is okay to want more and want to do more as long as you are happy with where you're at now too. 100%. You have to be happier. And that's why I've never freaked out as I'm getting older. I mean, look, no one likes to look in the Zoom mirror and see the wrinkles and the whatever. But if you're happy and content where you are in your life at that moment, and that doesn't mean everything's perfect. It just means you're good. If you're happy in that space, then aging doesn't really matter. Let's take a quick pause to talk about my new favorite all-in-one platform, Kajabi.

You know I've been singing their praises lately because they have helped our business run so much smoother and with way less complexity, which I love. Not to mention our team couldn't be happier because now everything is in one place so it makes collecting data, creating pages, collecting payment, all the things so much simpler. One of our mottos at Boss Babe is simplify to amplify and Kajabi has really helped us do that this year. So of course I needed to share it here with you. It's the perfect time of year to do a bit of spring cleaning in your business, you know, get rid of the complexity and instead really focus on getting organized and making things as smooth as possible. I definitely recommend Kajabi to all of my clients and students. So if you're listening

and haven't checked out Kajabi yet, now is the perfect time to do so because they are offering Boss Babe listeners a 30-day free trial. Go to kajabi.com slash Boss Babe to claim your 30-day free trial. That's kajabi.com slash Boss Babe. Sure. But I do think, you know, I think that, you know, as you go on in your life and your career, it is about balance. And I think people think of it as like the work home balance, but I don't think that's it. I think the balance is being very happy with where you're, where you are, but still striving for these other things. Like I, you know, Terry and I sometimes we'll talk about, you know, we have friends that are like, I don't want to call them retired, but they, you know, travel a lot and, you know, they have businesses that they don't have to necessarily be there all the time for.

And it is like a semi-retired thing. I don't see us ever doing. You guys are just going to keep going. We're just going to keep going. We love it. I mean, we, you know, we've got this new show we're waiting to hear if it got picked up, Seven Year Stitch, which we had so much fun doing together. And, you know, there's just, I mean, who knew a few years ago we were going to do that. So it's just, there's always just something that we're talking about or concepting and that's fun. But what, in the sense of like, how do you come up with ideas? How are you deciding?

Oh yeah, let's, cause you must have so many opportunities at this point. Like it must be harder to say like, oh no, this doesn't feel aligned versus like, yes, this does. And then you end up with too many things when you play. Like, how are you navigating that? How are you choosing like, okay,

this is the right route or this doesn't feel like, I'm curious as to that process. I think you have to listen to the universe. And I haven't always done that, but I've gotten better at it as I get older. And I really do try to listen to the universe because if you listen, the universe will actually tell you which way to go.

And I remember interviewing Jane Lynch once years ago and she said, always say yes. And I agree with that to a point. So she said, always say yes. And I agree with that to a point. So I agree. Always say yes, especially if something scares you, try it, whatever, say yes. But then also there does come a point where you have to kind of make sure you're not doing things just to do them. If it's not fun, if it's not interesting, if it doesn't feed your soul, not everything has to be hugely successful either, by the way. Like you could have a YouTube channel or a podcast that maybe isn't in the top charts or isn't highly rated or doesn't have a gazillion downloads, but there's something about it that feeds your soul, allows you to create a community.

Then that's a success. For sure. Like how do you measure success at the end of the day, right? Only you can. Exactly. Only you can. And I mean, that's really why I started because for me going on reality TV, I initially was like, oh my gosh,

this is like the final nail in the coffin that was my acting career. Why did you decide to do it? Like how were like the final nail in the coffin. That was my, my acting. Why, why did you decide to do it? Like how did you sign the contract? I didn't want to do it at all. So he'd already got botched, right? At that point? No, no, he hadn't. So you were the guinea pig? Yeah. But well, Terry had been on a show called The Swan years ago, and he was on this other show, Bridalplasty. So he understood about reality TV. He knew that the landscape of television had changed. I was not interested at all. And

he thought it was a great opportunity. He was right. And funny enough, Botched ended up turning into almost a spinoff. It's funny. So tell me about that conversation at home. So he was like, darling, I've got a great opportunity for you. Well, what actually happened was I think I, we only had three kids at the time and you know, when they're casting housewives, they call around and so they had called his office and someone said, Oh, Dr. Dubrow's wife, whatever. And so here I am at home with three kids, like dying, right? And they call and talk about a television show. I'm like, wait, I'm back? Yes, of course I'll do a TV show. I had no idea what it was. This is a long time ago. This was

the only, there was only Orange County on the air at that time. So I met with them and they came over and they did a little videotape of me. And I was like, oh, this is so great. I'll be back on TV. And then at the end of the day, they decided I was to New York. So I was like, okay, whatever. And so Terry says to me, oh, thank God you didn't get that show. And I go, why?

He goes, oh, those girls are so mean to each other and they fight. And I'm like, and that's what you wanted me to do? Are you crazy? Anyway, then what happens is Beverly Hills gets on the air and we knew Paul Nassif and his then wife, Adrienne Maloof. And so we started watching it. And so now I understood, I never watched Orange County, but now I watched Beverly Hills. So now I understood the format of the show. So they went, they came back calling again. Now I had four kids. Coco was

nine months old when we started. When they came back calling again, I was like, absolutely not. I am not cut out for that. I don't want to do this. And Terry's like, no, no, this is going to be great for business. This is a fantastic opportunity. And so finally I agreed to do it. So let's talk about, I feel like it's one thing when you, you're an actress, you play a role and it doesn't matter if people don't like that role. Like you're like, oh, this is my character. Like, so what everyone hates me or whatever. But when you become a reality star, like that feels very exposing. Like all of a sudden everyone has an opinion on you. People can hate you because of the color of your hair

or something random. Like you said one time it was taken out of context. Like how have you dealt, not just as you, but also as a family, like going into that space? So the first time I was on the show for five seasons, I didn't handle it very well, to be honest with you. I'm very overly sensitive and I didn't like it. I didn't like people talking about me on Twitter. And it's like, you know, you're only as good as your last week's

episode. They like you one week, they hate you the next week. It's very, very difficult. And to your point, when I was on scripted TV, people caught you and say, oh, I love your character. I love your show. And when you're on reality, they know you, they know your kids, they know you. It's very, very strange. I will tell you that going back into the show this time, I felt very different about it. One of the reasons, one of the biggest reasons that we went back on the show was because, you know, I've got four kids who are different genders, different sexualities. And when my oldest daughter, Max, came out a few years ago, we were really bombarded with a lot of love and support, but also really terrible situations. Parents that were estranged from their children,

children that had taken their own lives because they didn't have safe spaces to come out. And I did say to Terry, I'm like, okay, so we have this great platform. I really don't feel like writing another book. We don't need any more products. Like, whoa, what is it that we can do? And maybe how can we give back here? So what we decided was, okay, well, if we bring our family back on the show, maybe wouldn't it be cool if we could open up conversations in other people's homes? Now, I knew my daughter Kat was gay also, but I didn't know she was going to talk about it on the show. And, and I loved that it was a very, it wasn't like a big coming out conversation. It was just a very normal, natural conversation. And I, it was so beautiful and I was

so proud of her. And I feel like we accomplished something. I think with everything that's going on in our country, you know, with the transgender rights of our children and the gay rights of our children in Florida and in Texas and everything that's going on, it was really important to me to be able to do that. Yeah. It's like that impact to another level, right? Like, because I was watching watching I actually watched some of the um interviews and where your daughters were speaking and it was so empowering too and I I know that Rihanna just said this about you recently I think she just said like I wrote it down so I was like wow best thing ever she was like um she said that she was she admired the way you allow your kids to be who they are and obviously with her pregnancy I was like that is like just such a powerful reflection for lots of mothers to see as well.

Cause I really feel like that about, I took it for granted before. I thought all kids grew up knowing that their parents would love them regardless. Cause I had that from my parents and it's been really like in more recent conversations and learning that, like you say, some children just don't feel like that and they can't have these honest conversations. And we had Gigi gorgeous on, um, and she was sharing about how she, um, transitioned and what that conversation was like with her family. And I think the more young people hear that conversation and the more parents hear that conversation, like it's how they can navigate it with love and support. And, you know, you don't necessarily have to understand everything straight away, but you get to learn and hold the space for that.

And I think that's just really important. So I was like when I was hearing, I can see how much positive impact that's had that conversation that you guys have shown with other families. And that was really important to me. So to answer the earlier question, it's really, you know, that's why I wanted to do this. It's looking past people liking you or not liking you. Okay. Because like you were talking about, people are going to like you. People are not going to like you. They're not going to like the color of your hair. They're not going to like my house. They're going to say I'm pretentious. They're going to say all these things. You know what? That's fine. But if I can also help some families and normalize some conversations, then it was absolutely, totally worth it. Yeah. I love that. And how was bringing, cause I think as well, like,

you know, sometimes I'm so grateful. I did not grow up with social media. Like I didn't get social media until I was like university college age. And like, I'm also curious around like how you've managed the conversation of confidence in your household, you know, like having like the, the children around cameras from an early age obviously terry's a plastic surgeon like there's so many conversations that i imagine are like i mean i grew up in a little town in the uk where there's like no there wasn't even like smartphones at that point like i feel like my teenage years were probably very different to your children's teenage years. And that's more

reflection of lots of children's teenage years. So I'm curious how you manage conversations around confidence and being good enough in your house. So I don't remember specifically having those conversations, but communication is definitely key. We've always been very, very open in our house. But you know, something that I thought was really interesting was, so my daughter Max wrote a book and I have it right here. Oh, I'll give it to you straight-ish. What your team, what your team wants. Yeah. Her title. She has a podcast too by the same name. But she wrote this book and I didn't read it till it was done. I didn't read any version of it, nothing. Because I was like, you do your thing and I want to read it at the end. So when I read it, it was very interesting. There was, you know, there was a mom wins in there. There were definitely mom fails in there.

But what I really thought was fascinating was it really wasn't things that I said to her, but she talks about specific moments where she observed me and how I behaved and how I spoke and the lessons she gleaned from those moments. And then I realized, I was like, wow, that's so interesting because as parents, we want to talk at you guys. We want to talk at you. We want to impart our wisdom, give you our life lessons. But the truth is, you know, listening to you is the most important thing, number one. And number two, all you children are watching us.

And whether you realize it or not, you're learning from how we walk in our shoes and how we live our lives. And it made me really happy that she sees me and that's how she learned. And that was a huge win. And that's actually really, really powerful because it's that whole thing. It's not like what you say, it's how you say it or like, not what you like do. It's how you do it and all those types of things. And we do read between the lines as humans. And we're looking like, is it like 7% of conversations actually only through words? It's like, then it's, then it comes down to tone and mannerisms and eye contact and how like your energy is to that other person and yeah some sort of communication I think it is um I think that's really powerful and it's really interesting to hear that reflected I actually just did the Hoffman process have you

heard of that no it's like basically a week-long intense therapy session but it's about your inner child and you go back to basically they put you in a more of an inner child state for like a week and you do a lot of immersive experiences and you go back to being like under the age of 12 and looking at your patterns and why you behave the way you behave. Oh God, this is giving me anxiety. No, but it's like fascinating in the sense that, I mean, obviously I don't have children, so I'm not being criticized. But no, it's like-

You call your mother when you're left, you're like, wow, okay. I actually called my mother and was like, I love you so much because I realized that my, I had a pattern of not feeling good enough. And I realized that, and when you go into it, it's like my pattern of not feeling good enough. And I realized that, and when you go into it, it's like my pattern of not feeling good enough comes because my mom felt not good enough because my grandmother felt not good enough. And it's actually passed down. And the reason I was

sharing this is just because it's so many of the patterns I noticed were reading between the lines. They weren't what my mom or dad had said to me. It was like, you just said, like the mannerisms around like their interactions that I had picked up on. And the whole point is like, as a child for survival, you mirror what you see for your own survival. And it's just, it's just a very eyeopening process, but I think it's just really powerful then, like, you know, when you go back to that and I'm sure if your, your children do it, they would have so much love for you as well. And just being like, wow, I mean, it sounds like you did an amazing job too, but it's so interesting. But I think it also comes down to like, you know, it's like, you know, that terrible thing, like do as I say,

not as I do, like people that smoke cigarettes and they're like, don't smoke. It's bad for you, but you see your parents smoking. they're telling you it's okay. Were there lessons that like from reading a book and having conversations with your children, like having that open communication that you've learned, like, oh, if I was to have more or if I was to go back, I would do things differently or not? No, I don't think if I could go back, I would do anything differently. I think they're really, they're really good kids. They're really grounded. They're really nice kids and they're fine. They're not perfect, but they're, they're great. And they're finding their way in the world. And they have a lot of respect for each other. And look, there's still siblings, a couple of them,

fight like cats and dogs sometimes and do all that. We're not the Brady bunch, but there is a lot of love and respect and gratitude in this house. And that's really what I wanted. You know, when I was growing up, we were in a very 1950s house. No one talked about anything. Everything was swept under the rug. I remember being bored a lot. And all I wanted for my family was like fun, happy, joyous times and love and respect. And that's what we have. So staying on the topic of family, obviously you've been married for a number of years to Terry, I think 1999 you got married. Yep. And your lives have changed a lot over that period. And divorce rates are something like 45% in America in 2021. Right. I am curious, what do you, what do you think has helped your relationship survive? Because I also see this with like

entrepreneurs, particularly like you can get, I feel like when you have a business or in your case, multiple businesses, like that's another baby. Like that is literally another like thing to look after, to make sure it's breathing, to make sure it's growing and et cetera. So I'm curious how you've like navigated your communication, your relationship over the years. I mean, I feel like we've always been really good at prioritizing our relationship. You know, we got married a little bit older. We got, we had children a little bit older, so we were kind of fully formed human. How old were you when you got married? 30. 30. Okay. I was 30, but we've been together 25 years. And so, um, yeah, so I met him when I was 27. So I'm like, wait, how old am I?

Right, so like I was a working actress. He was a plastic surgeon. We weren't like in the young struggle phase. You know what I'm saying? So we came together as fully formed adults, formed a life together. And yeah, you know, people ask me, how'd you survive the reality show curse?

Here's the thing. When it comes to relationships, you have good days and bad days. You have good years and bad years. That's just the truth. And it's how you get through them. You can meet someone and just dot all the I's, cross all the T's, and really do your best to pick a compatible person in your life. And it doesn't always work out that way. So there is a lot of luck and faith involved in it, but you also have to really work at it. And we have worked at our relationship.

Like I said, we prioritize our relationship. We always have date night. We make sure we're having sex. We are connected. Okay, so what is prioritization? You just kind of said a couple of things there, but like date night, like every week or like, what does that look like where you're like, because I do think like when people do say have kids and businesses, there's a lot going on. So I would love to hear any tips on that. Yeah. Well, when your children are very young,

it's exhausting. And I think that's the first pitfall that people lose each other in because you're so exhausted. There's always got to be time to have a date night, to have alone time, whether you have a parent that lives nearby, you can hire a sitter, or you just put them to bed a little early and set up a beautiful little thing in your kitchen. Whatever it is, you have got to make time for each other. And you have to use self-care, not just your partner, but for yourself. It is really, really important. So many of us get lost in our children when they're very little. And like I said, it really is physically exhausting. And as they get older, it gets more mentally exhausting. But yeah, we always made sure we had date night. We always made sure we were talking. Very important to talk. Even like if

it was a crazy dinner with the kids and all of that, as soon as they went to sleep, we didn't go to our corners and watch TV. We hung out together. You've got to constantly make the time and stay connected. And communication. I mean, that's just true of any together. You've got to constantly make the time and stay connected. And communication. I mean, that's just true of any relationship. You've got to stay communicating. And is your communication style as like a relationship to be like, okay, because I've been learning there's a lot of like different communication styles.

You'd be like, oh, this is what's happening on my side of the bridge. And this is what's happening on my side of the bridge. How have you formed that whole like, look, you did this and this really annoyed me or like, Oh, I just want to share about my day. Like talk to me about what that communications look like over the years as well. Because I think it's not only important in relationships, but with children, but also with businesses too. Like communication is everything. Yeah. And, and you, you just brought up a really good point. It's like, how do you fight? So, you know, when you're younger and more dramatic,

fights can be more dramatic. And as you get older, you learn to realize, you know, it's not that important. We have learned to fight much, much better over the years. I mean, he's someone who wants to walk away immediately and then he's over it. Then I stew. And, you know, we had a lot of problems.

I'm telling you. I don't know if I'm going, I'm going, you're out, but I can't, I want to talk about it now and get it over with, but he wants to walk away for a while and then I'm stewing and it gets worse. But over the years we have figured out a way to fix our fighting styles. Sometimes we'll text about it. Um, sometimes like one thing I always say that we love to do is like go for a walk or go for a hike. Because I feel like also sometimes when you are angry and you are planted there and just the energy is going right into the other person,

you can escalate a fight incredibly quickly that doesn't actually need to be escalated. But if you're walking, moving, hiking, and the energy is kind of going everywhere and the blood is pumping, you expend that energy in a different direction. It's a really good. And there's a finite thing.

Like we'll go on a hike and be like, look, here we go. This is the trail. And at the end of the trail, we're going to leave it on the trail. We're going to talk about it. We're going to hash it out. And then we're going to leave it on the trail. We're going to talk about it. We're going to hash it out and then we're going to leave it on the trail. And we're not going to

talk about this again. Because if you are resenting your person and the same things are coming up over and over and over again, every time you fight, you're not resolving anything. Yeah. So, so true. I love that. Natalie and I have done that before, like walking business conversations that are a little bit difficult versus just like sat there like, okay, let's just go to walk and like talk this out as we're walking. The energy is completely different. One, you're in nature. Two, it's like, you're both focused on your walking. You're not like facing each other. You're like actually having a conversation in tandem. So I absolutely love that tip. Okay. I know we're short on time now. I want

to ask you one last thing. If you were, maybe, maybe not so advice yourself. Cause I felt like when you were first starting out, the landscape was a little bit different, but to now like early stage entrepreneurs, what's like one of the biggest tips that you would be like, if you want to grow your business or your personal brand, like this is my, this is the one thing I would think about. Well, I mean, I think that there's many things, but first of all, there's many, but you know, you really have to do things that make yourself happy. I think a lot of times people get bogged down with, I need to be successful. I need to make X amount of money. I need to be the first to do this, the best to do this. I think there's also a lot of people out there that don't network properly. Gone are the days where you need to be the only one that does something.

There's plenty of people that do plenty of things. And I guess my advice is there's room for everyone. So grow your network, talk to people. And it might sound super basic but it's just that's just the truth talk to as many people as you can join clubs go out it used to be we'd want to go out to like meet uh you know people to date or just like have some drinks or to unwind but look it's really important to meet people, especially if you live in a place like Los Angeles or Manhattan. Well, Manhattan people walk, but like in LA, people don't meet on the street. You have to be intentional about where you're going and who you're meeting. But you know, there's so many great, you know, boss bitch networks now, you

know, like create and cultivate like all these really beautiful places that you, the wing and all these places that you can go and meet people. Talk to people, make friends, join forces. It's the best thing. And I think having mentors, having mentors is the gift of a lifetime. Yeah, for sure. I could not agree more. Like mentors, it's like helping you on that roadmap. They're telling you the mistakes they made so that you don't have to, which is literally just priceless. So listen, Heather, thank you so much for coming on the Bossway podcast. I so appreciate it. I need to get you on again. There are so many things that I want to dive into. I'd be happy to. You're just adorable. Thank you so much. Sorry about all my technology issues

at the beginning. Oh, I loved it. I loved it. I felt like it's just the real behind the scenes of doing all. And that's what this podcast is here to discuss because we're not all polished and our social media highlights all the time. So I appreciate you coming on and just sharing your thoughts and being so real and honest. So thank you so much. Oh, no, thank you. It's so funny. I'm looking at what's next. I have to turn my light around. Speaking of multitasking and all my clothes from my clothing line that I sell are like on the other side of the room over there. I love it. I love it. You've got a jam-packed day. So we'll let you go. Thank you. Thank you so much. Take care. Bye. Bye, honey. If you enjoyed this episode, we would love it if you subscribed and left us a review. Let us know what you enjoyed, what your main takeaways were and who you'd like to see appear

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