the bossbabe podcast - 259. Creating Engaging Content That Sells Out Your Products with Cassey Ho

Episode Date: November 15, 2022

Cassey Ho is everywhere, including Target, 24-Hour Fitness and YouTube, where her popular fitness-themed channel has amassed over a billion views around the world. She turned that success into another – going after, and achieving, her lifelong goal of becoming a fashion designer – and she’s here to talk about it all. If you want to turn your social media following into a business but don’t know how, keep listening. If you still dismiss stories (on podcasts like this one) of people following their passions to wealth and true fulfillment, this is the episode for you. Cassey is a ball of positive energy and is sure to leave you inspired to take that first step! Highlights: Monetize your social media accounts with these easy tips. Learn what a HOOK is and how to use one to increase sales. Reel tips from a content creator with 2M+ followers! Links: Check out Cassey’s viral skort video! Website: blogilates.com Follow: YouTube: Blogilates Instagram: @blogilates bossbabe: @bossbabe.inc Danielle Canty: @daniellecanty

Who knew that me doing workout videos would one day lead me back to my original childhood dream of becoming a fashion designer? Like social media has been everything for me. A boss babe is unapologetically ambitious and paves the way for herself and other women to rise, keep going and fighting on. She is on a mission to be her best self in all areas. It's just believing in yourself. Confidently stepping outside her comfort zone to create her own version of success. Okay, listen up you guys. If you are remotely interested in starting a business off the back

of your social media account, listen up if you want to understand what a hook is in social media and how to implement it in a gold standard way. Today, I'm interviewing Cassie Ho. Now, she is the founder of Blogalates. Yes, you've probably heard of her. She's got over 14 million people across the globe to sweat in style through her viral videos that have been watched over 2 billion times, you guys. The organic reach and community she has built through Blogilates has landed her deals with Target for an exclusive Blogilates line. She's sold stores nationwide with that. She's done a partnership with 24 Hour Fitness with her signature format. Pop Pilates is taught in gyms and she is literally a force to be reckoned with. But also she is super sweet. She's super kind and she is giving

like the best advice in this podcast. We talk about everything from how she even thinks about how to go about creating her reel to what a community has done and how Blogilates is built on community. She also shared something which I just thought was so awesome. I've not heard shared in this way before about how she brings her followers in to her content and how she allows them to shape her content, which is really vital when you are building a following in a community. So like I said, if you are interested in anything in a community. So like I said, if you are interested in anything to do with growing your social media account and learning how to monetize it, you want to get your notepad and pen ready. I feel like I said that every

episode with the notepad and pen, but really, you should be listening to these podcasts with a notepad and pen because we give gold actionable advice. And if you've been listening for a little while and you've not yet left us a review, I would really love you to go and leave us a five star and to share one of your favorite guests with us. I would absolutely love that. And also don't forget to tag myself at Danielle Canty whenever you are listening to these episodes so that we can reshare you. Anyway, let's dive right in. Cassie, welcome to the Boss Babe podcast. I am so excited to be here. Oh my goodness. I am too. I feel like I have so many questions to ask you because I've been following

you for a little while now and the community that you have created both on YouTube and Instagram is literally insane. And I've been watching your content reels and just really admiring the type of pieces of content that you've been creating because it's so, so engaging. And I wanted to kind of hear a little bit more about your journey today because now a lot of people, influencer, content creator, these are terminologies we're like very used to hearing about. But when you started, that wasn't the case. No, when I started, it was 2009. I actually was moving from LA to Boston for my very first corporate job ever. My only one ever. And at the time I was teaching Pilates like at night after classes and things. And when I got the job, my students were like, who's going to

teach this class? Cause I was teaching my own format called pop Pilates, Pilates to pop music. No one was doing that at the time. So I thought, okay, why don't I record a 10 minute workout for them, upload it to this website called YouTube. And I would just leave it up for them to do whenever they missed me. Well, little did I know that after I moved to Boston, I looked back at that same video and it got thousands of views and hundreds of comments. And I was like, oh my gosh, who are these people? Cause they're not even the people that I emailed the video to. And that's when I realized, oh my gosh, like this is some type of a community. And they started asking for, well, can we get a butt video, an arm video, another ad video. And that really was the beginning of me listening to this

audience and really serving them, providing content in that way. And that was 2009. There were no ad campaigns, no brand deals. There's no such thing as what is it called? AdSense, right? You couldn't make money that way. And really, I think people back then weren't making videos to become famous. They were just making videos because you wanted to share something. And for me, it was all about connecting with my audience. I love that. And what was the gap for you to even start thinking about? Because you're like, oh yeah, so I just recorded this video and then put it on YouTube. But also I'm like, how did you even know how to use a camera? How did you even know

this stuff? Were you studying the arts? No. So I was majoring in biology. My parents wanted me to be a doctor. But this whole this video thing, I knew nothing about it. I remember it was probably like October 2009. And we're at my boyfriend's house, Sam. He's my husband now. And he took out his dad's camcorder. And like, we didn't even know how to do anything. So he like set it up like all the way, like 15 feet away for no reason.

Then zoomed in, so it was grainy. And then we put on music in the background. And because I don't know how to edit, I'm like, okay, the time limit for a YouTube video is nine minutes and 59 seconds. So I need to finish on the dot because I do not know how to cut videos. And so that experience of me like going like full on 10 minute video, no mistakes is what ended up making my videos and like me working on set with like directors and stuff so easy because I never mess up. And so all I did

with that video was I used windows Movie Maker, which is the worst. And I chopped up the beginning and the end and that's it. I knew nothing. That video is still up and it's the worst. At the end, it starts getting grainy and turning green. I don't know what happened. So how many YouTube subscribers do you have now? Oh my gosh, we're almost at 8 million. It's insane. So let's talk through that journey a little bit. So you went to Boston and you would put this video up, you checked in and then they went, you were reading the comments and you just mentioned there, and I want to highlight this

because I see you doing this a lot now. So you read the comments and you looked at what people were asking for. Yes. And then you were like, okay, I'll go create that. Yeah. And so you went about doing more of those nine minute videos, uploading those. When did this start progressing into a business? When

were you like, actually, I might not need to be doing this career that I'd planned? I think that in itself is very much a balancing act, right? So I think the moment when I realized that Blogilates was more than just my screen name was when fans started asking for merchandise. And I was like, why would you want to wear a shirt with my screen name on it? This is weird. But we had a little design contest. The community chose the graphic that they wanted. I bought

shirts at Forever 21, screen printed them with Sam. And then they sold, once we posted them on Facebook, they sold out within minutes. And I was like, oh, this is something. And so that was probably in 2010 or something like 2010, 2011. I only lasted eight months at my job. And that's a whole nother story in terms of I had released a yoga bag back when I was in college in 2009. Anyway, eight months into the job, I found out that a magazine had written about it, Shape Magazine. And that was my sign to quit the job because I was so miserable. It was a toxic environment. And I was really bad at what I was hired to do. So I don't think I was a great employee. I tried, but it was in a great environment. And I took that magazine mention as a sign to really just go for my dreams. And I had always wanted to be a designer. And I mentioned

at the top of this interview that I went to school for biology to become a doctor because that's what my parents wanted me to be. I'm from an Asian, like I'm Vietnamese and Chinese in that culture. You're either a doctor, a lawyer, or a failure. So my dad, yeah, so I ended up graduating with a degree in biology, but wanting nothing to do with it. My heart was just too hollow. So I was always designing and things like that throughout college. Anyway, that bag got mentioned and then I quit the job and I was like, I am going to make this, like, I'm going to try because if I don't give myself the chance to succeed, I'll never know. And I never want to live a life of I could have, or I should have. So that was really, really critical that moment. I want to just go back to the family piece because I actually think that's something that a lot of people struggle with I believe it's changing now with like younger generations because but I

certainly remember when we were given okay what career path do you want to choose from it's like okay a doctor a lawyer a policewoman a nurse like all these traditional paths and now that's just not the case anymore but for you and I remember, like you say, like trying to say you're, you know, leaving your career to go and pursue this thing on YouTube. I bet your parents were both anxious, worried, and kind of like, have you lost your mind, Cassie?

What are you doing over there? So how did you like battle that? How did you know in your heart that this was something to do? Yeah, I'm a very passionate, very sensitive person. And I know when to listen to my heart. And I do believe that is why I am where I am today, because there's just something itching inside of me, guiding me where to go next. And it has been very hard. And even to this day, like to get my parents on board. And they from like the day I decided to sabotage my MCATs

by not taking organic chemistry and dropping out two weeks into the course, the day I quit my job, like all of these like very like pivotal things. The day I even decided to do a fashion internship instead of like, you know, a medical one, like all of these things. My parents were very upset with me. And actually when I decided to drop out of organic chemistry and just like, you know, sabotage that whole thing, they were like, you're out of your mind. You're crazy. You're never going to make it as a fashion designer. Like don't even try. And then they started going down like, well, if you're not a doctor, then maybe a pharmacist. Oh, not a pharmacist, maybe a dentist. Oh, maybe a naturopathic. They just like kept going down. They're like anything or go back and get your master's or PhD, like go to school.

But I just, my heart was too hollow to do that. Yeah. So, I mean, like I said, it's hard even to this day, but I think it's part of culture and I don't know, but also I think the way my parents brought me up to always strive to be the best is also what like makes me me and I think them being part of the challenge of wanting of me wanting something so bad like also has built my character too oh I love that so there's like parts of that you've actually like channeled into being like okay well I know to do things my best ability I'm gonna if

I'm gonna do this I'm gonna give it my all and recognize that you get that from them. And then also, okay, well, they might not necessarily believe me without like think that's the best route to go. But does that kind of spur you on a little bit? Does that give you that fire in your belly? Like, oh, I'll show them that this is the path. Yeah. And I think too, like,

because my dad always told me, you can't be a fashion designer. You'll never make it. The fact that I am doing that now, like to me is like, honestly, one of the coolest things. Not that I showed my parents wrong, like, you know, I proved them wrong. But just that I'm doing this thing that even I started to believe that I could never do. But I'm thankful for my parents for putting that fire within me. You're right.

Because it feels so good to be able to live that dream now. Yeah. And so, so powerful, like what you have got on Create. Because, you know, we're not just talking, I'd say 1 million subscribers, which is a huge amount on YouTube. Like, hey, you've really built and harnessed a community built on something that you love. And I think because you built it on your passion

and something that's really, you know, you've been enthusiastic about, that's why the community has grown. But I just want to highlight again something you just said there, which was, it was your sign. You were talking about, I did this thing like the yoga mat,

and I had this sign. And you're also saying like following your heart. For a lot of people, that's kind of something they're a little bit disconnected. I was disconnected from that for a long, long time, like ignoring my gut instinct, ignoring what maybe I just like had a knowing for. How did you tap into that and tune into that? You know, that's really interesting. No one's ever actually asked me that before. But now that you say that was something that you tuned into later, I guess it's just always been there. Like I know when I have a fire for something, it just, it's a magnet that pulls

me and I can't pull away. And the more I ignore it, the hollower my heart gets. So to me, it's something that I just, I have to serve it. I don't know. I don't know how I became in tune with it. I think it's just always been there. Yeah. Were you like brought up with a, like speaking about feelings or emotions or one? Okay. You were so. Yeah, no, I'm very, I think I'm just, I'm just very sensitive. Like everything makes me cry. Like when I'm happy, when I'm sad, when I'm upset, I just like, I'm very in tune with it in with my feelings and I'm vulnerable about them too, which is also why I think my community has grown a lot because I'm not shy to talk about, you know, my body struggles or like how I'm feeling about

like my career or whatever. And it's a double-edged sword because sometimes I wish that, you know, even when I'm reading comments, the mean ones still get to me and it's been 13 years now. I'll still cry. They still hurt me, even though people are like, oh, like it's not a big deal. It is a big deal when you're a really sensitive person. And so I think that sensitivity allows me to know like what the next step is for

me inside, but it also allows the outside to really get to me emotionally. Let's take a quick pause to talk about my new favorite all-in-one platform, Kajabi. You know, I've been singing their praises lately because they have helped our business run so much smoother and with way less complexity, which I love. Not to mention our team couldn't be happier because now everything is in one place, so it makes collecting data, creating pages, collecting payment, all the things so much simpler. One of our mottos at Boss Babe is simplify to amplify, and Kajabi has really helped us do that this year. So of course I needed to share it here with you. It's the perfect time of year to do a bit of spring cleaning in your business, you know, get rid of the complexity and students. So if you're listening and haven't checked out Kajabi yet, now is the perfect time to do so because they are offering Boss Babe listeners a 30-day free trial. Go to kajabi.com slash Boss Babe to claim your 30-day free trial.

That's kajabi.com slash Boss Babe. Yeah, I think that's definitely, there's so, so many pros with growing a community and social media, but I think that's definitely, there's so, so many pros with growing a community and social media, but I think that's definitely one of the harder things, like one of the shadow sides of it, which I want to come to as we kind of move through this interview. But let's kind of say on the fact that you were building, you started building your YouTube first before your Instagram, right? Yes, that was like the first social media. And you were getting the comments through and you were reading the comments,

you're building more on that video space. How did you then navigate and you're seeing the demands for merchandise? How did you navigate stepping in to, because I know creating digital content is very different to actually building a product-based business. How did you navigate going into that when you knew nothing about it? So here's the interesting thing. And the story

gets confusing because in college, I was trying a lot of different things. That's when I started teaching Pilates. That's when I started solving my own problem of not having a bag to carry my mat, my CDs, and my keys to class. So I designed a yoga bag. And then after that is actually when I uploaded my first YouTube video. So actually in the background, while I was learning how to make YouTube videos, I had been making yoga bags and I had like a small manufacturing facility in Oakland, California that was making these bags for me. I mean, teeny, teeny tiny units, but like I was like beginning to learn. I knew nothing about the product in the fashion design industry. Like I remember Googling, like, is there a standard size for a bag? Cause I thought there were like regulations or something.

I had no idea, but scrap fabric in downtown LA, put one together. And what was the original question that you're asking? Just how you like transition. Oh, how do I transition? Yeah. Like how did, like, cause I know that even me like trying to learn about product and stuff and like, wait, what, what are these rules? Like, what can I do in manufacturing? What is the best way to do stuff? Right. Okay. So, so the thing is there wasn't a transition. I think there was me designing products cause that's always what I wanted to do. And then there was YouTube, which ended up serving as a marketing tool without me even knowing it. Right. Because as I'm uploading the videos, people are asking, oh, what are you wearing? What's that in the back? And then, so when people started seeing the things that I was using, they started wanting

the things that I was using. And so even though like back then I was like, again, not knowing much about product, but knowing what I like. And if I design something that makes me happy, then I'm happy to share that with my fans because I treat them like my friends. I would never sell them anything that I wouldn't want. And so I always let that guide me. And I'm also someone who's just really attached to pretty things and aesthetic things. And so if I liked it and if the fans liked it, then it was probably a good product to put out in the world. So let's talk about fans, community, followers, however we want to describe them. What do you think has allowed you to set you apart to build the community and the following that you have? Because it's huge. Yeah. What I think is really interesting is that I started on YouTube in 2009,

then continued to build that while then getting on Facebook and then Instagram and then now recently TikTok. And it's been 13 years and I'm like sometimes still surprised that I'm like still here because I have a lot of friends in the community, some who got burnt out a long time ago on YouTube or maybe got burnt out in the Instagram era or like never made it over to TikTok. And I think what makes Blogilates special is that I'm always trying new things because one, I have to stay challenged emotionally. I like to be like, I like my mental to also be challenged as well. So once I am bored of something, I'm going to be moving on. And so interestingly enough, like I told you throughout this whole process, I've been designing things in the background,

but what people saw in the front was Cassie Hobing, a fitness instructor, a fitness influencer. And it wasn't until maybe just two years ago that I started making content that was no longer truly just fitness content because I felt inside of me, I'm kind of bored. I'm kind of bored of teaching my 500th like ab crunch video. And so I was scared inside. Is anyone going to want to learn about the things that I do in my life? Like 97% of the time, even though everyone thinks I work out all day because that's what I post. And I just went for it. I started showing people, Hey, here's the reasons why I made this anti-camel toe legging. This is why it mechanically works this way. And they were into it. And what ended up happening is that that content began bringing in a new set

of people who are interested in that. And so me being able to constantly evolve my content keeps me interested and also helps build my audience. That's one part of it on the content side. And then on the other side, I talked about the vulnerability. I use my social media platforms as my diary and it's scary, right? Because I put my rawest feelings out there and there's going to be people who absolutely disagree with you, people who love you because they truly get it. And it's really difficult. But because I started out with a blog and I use that as my diary, I now use Instagram in the same way. And so I think that vulnerability really creates that deep connection. And there's going to be people that absolutely like don't like it and people that like it, but the ones that stay, it's good.

I always like this podcast to be very like action oriented. So people listening are like, oh, I actually I can apply this in my business or I can apply this for my content creation so I want to kind of double down a little bit on this seeing Instagram as like your diary almost like how are you like batch creating your content ahead of time are you creating it every single day are you like creating it and then like you felt that on a Monday, but you won't post it until a Thursday. Like how does that work for you? Okay. So it's crazy, but I film, edit, write, and do all of my own content that you see on Blogilates on all platforms. And so tomorrow we're launching something and I haven't filmed it yet,

but I'm just going to do it right after this podcast. So for me, I'm also sometimes I'm very much like a last minute or I like plan ahead for like big picture, but I don't like to put things in the can when it comes to creating content because my mind changes all the time and it stresses the team out in marketing because they're like, are you posting a video? Not posting video. Can you use a cut down of that? But I'm very much like if a launch is coming up and I'm feeling very happy about the product that we're putting out, I'm really excited,

then I will film a video for it. Maybe like I may film the B-roll. If I'm good about it, maybe like a week before, maybe five days before, generally sometimes one or two days before. And I will spend, it takes nine hours to put out one 60 second video between the filming, the changing, the writing, the editing, the voiceovering. And I'll just like sit on my

couch on my in shot and just like go like this. And the reason why I talk about that and why I don't let anyone else do that is because to me, that's also kind of like a diary and nowhere, no one really knows what's going on inside my head when I'm designing the thing. Cause I'm the one who's sketching it out. I, and of course my design and development team, like knows like what went into it, but these videos have evolved more into again, kind of a diary, but also like reasons why you need this thing. And it's not mechanical. There is no template. I try to change it up every time because I'm afraid that this style of design video is going to get stale.

And I want to make sure my content's always exciting. So anyway, that's how I do. I'm going to actually link to the post because I think I know the reel that you're describing is the one way like, let's say you just launched the new skirt and you're like drawing it out and are you doing sketches? And then you're like drawing it out and are you doing sketches and then you're like oh this was happening with the v yeah yeah and i'm so gonna link that because i think this is a really good like message in a way that people can really understand like what you're talking about so you're saying that for you to create that one reel you can literally spend not all day doing one reel and because you're trying to think through, okay, how to make this different

from what everyone else is doing, how to make this stand out, how to make it captivating that people stay to the end. So what is like, are you scrolling to get ideas on it? Do you have like, how do you get into a creative zone? So for me, the creativity and the why behind the product starts nine to 12 months ago when I'm designing the product.

And so as long as the product ended up exactly what I intended it to be, those kind of are my points for what I'm talking through the video. But the creativity part is the hook, right? I cannot and I will not start every video exactly the same because I'm scared of it going stale. And so that is probably the hardest thing, right? Like, is it like me talking about, I've been designing bags for 13 years or like, are we going to start out with a comment that some customers put? And then I put that at the beginning. So it's always trying to find a different hook that is the hardest for me. Yeah. I love that. I love that when you decide to to use the terminology as hook because you're right. Like we have, it's like 0.13 seconds to grab someone's attention.

Is that what it is? Yeah, it's literally nothing on a, when people are real. You don't even have a second to grab their attention. Like you have to hook them in straight away. And so I think it's really powerful, like what you're saying to be always, you change that and looking for what that hook is. Like, I really appreciate how your brain's working. It's not like, oh, I'm creating a reel.

It's like, what am I hooking them inward to then take them into the rest of the story, which is 101 in marketing, but even more so in real creation and Instagram creation, TikTok creation. How do you deal with when things don't work? So let's say you post something and it's a complete flop, like barely any views, barely any engagement. How do you feel? How do you manage your emotions around that? How do you process that? So we recently just had, I wouldn't

call it a flop, but it wasn't like a full like virality situation, which I feel like I've been lucky recently. Like almost everything we put out is going viral, sells out the product within hours. And it just feels really good, right? You just like feel like, wow, I'm on top of the world. Then we had one that didn't have as much functionality. It was this windbreaker, which I love. I think it's so cute.

It has these ruched sleeves. Oh my God, the one that ties? Yeah, I love that one. I love it too. I was like, I need that. So apparently the audience, like, okay, I'm not going to call it like hate because I've gotten true hate on videos before. And that just destroyed me. But this one had a little bit more disgruntled. Yeah. A little bit more people being like, well, why is it cropped? Like, why does it have so much

ruching on it? Like so many opinions. I was like, what? And the sales like weren't as high as I thought it was going to be. And like, just, I don't live in LA. That's why they don't know. That's a very, I'll actually move this thing. I mean, it's too LA because we get mild weather. No, exactly. Actually, there's this really funny comment. I was just gonna bring it up because I didn't understand. There was a whole like thread in the comments about, well, it won't keep my kidneys warm. And I was like, kidneys? What does kidneys have to do with anything? And I was like looking at the length of it and went on Google, like where are the kidneys located? I took human anatomy. I was like, I'm pretty sure it keeps the kidneys warm. And I got really obsessed and obsessed over all of this stuff. Anyway, I do think because over

the past couple of years, we really built PopFlex to be a brand that solves problems, that is full of functionality. And yes, we're also cute because this windbreaker was designed maybe like a little over a year ago. I hadn't put all the functionality in it that I probably should have, like pockets and things like that. People were really upset. And so how did I manage it? Well, I mean, I made a funny IG story about it and I internally, I'm sad, of course, but I think what's really important is that when I'm having feelings, I need to let the feelings feel like I need to go through it. I talked to Sam about it and then we get the feelings out and then we move on to the next because what else can you do? Then we also thought of, okay, well, how, how can we make it sell? If

the current audience isn't really feeling it, how do we reach out to different people? And so I talked to our influencer gifting team. We're like, okay, let's find a set of influencers who are probably more into fashion than they are into function. Let's send it out to them and see if them and their audience will like it. So for me, after I feel the feels, I come up with a solution and immediately I feel better. So that's how I deal. I'm so cool that you were just like, better so that's how I deal I'm not so cool that you were just like okay well how do we like get around this because that's my biggest thing

when I teach we teach an influencer school like how to like grow a following I'm like first of all you have literally got to let go of any worry around failure because it really doesn't exist as long as you keep trying like there's no such. So like if you post that thing and it doesn't work, don't worry. Like you're going to have another go tomorrow. Right. Yeah.

But I also like what you did, like we did a launch for the society, which was our membership for female entrepreneurs to help them build businesses. We did a launch for that in June. And the messaging that we had initially was just, well, it's not landing.

And then we were like, right, what are we missing here? And same as you, went through the comments, went through any emails, went through our community, like started looking at it. And I was like, wow, we're literally not speaking the same languages. And they're using these words, we're using these words. And the messaging is the same, but it's not being translated the same. And okay, how do we fix this? Like it sucks, but we're going to have to redo a lot of work right now, but how do we fix this?

Right. And to me, that's the real strengths of being an entrepreneur is being able to pivot, being able to like your resilience. How many times can you fall over and get back up? That's what's going to set you apart from everyone else. Absolutely. The resilience and that creativity to problem solve, that is what being an entrepreneur

is. Yeah. So how do you, when you're talking, I just want to stay on this real and creation a little bit longer. When you are looking for different ways to start, you're talking about hooks and stuff, but do you get inspired from scrolling TikTok or scrolling Instagram, what other people are doing or trends? Or do you go more within to first brainstorm your creation? Because I think there's some type, this one, I'm asking kind of for myself, because for me, I don't want to spend hours and hours scrolling Instagram and TikTok. I actually find it very mentally healthy for myself. So I'm like, oh, where do I get inspiration from that isn't always on the platform? So I'm curious as to how, where you get yours from.

Okay. So there's like a few types of videos that I do. I'll just bucket that into two. There's like my design videos, which I feel like I know exactly what to do there. I tell the why behind the product, pretty much just need to change the hook, but the rest, the product sells itself. Then there's like the trendy videos, right? Like the sounds that are fun and stuff. And I always try to figure out whether it was me doing fitness videos or me doing design videos, how do I use that trend? But from like in my style. And so the, that one song, like one thing about me and it was like a cute little dance. I was like, wait, can I do a dance, but like sell my skirt at the same time? So like for like every beat,

I was like showing like, oh, anti-camel toe, pockets, like V ways. And that ended up getting like over a million something views. And that took like no time. And it was just like some, and it could have totally flopped. People have been like, what are you doing?

That's so weird. But it worked. And I think you really just, you do have to scroll a little bit. If something sticks, I just like click the heart. I save it. And I don't necessarily do it right away, but it's in the back of my mind. And if one morning I'm like, I know what to do with that sound, then I just go up and do it. And the great thing about TikTok, I feel too, and is that you don't even have to

put on makeup. People really love you when you just look raw and like real. I remember when I first started YouTube, full on hair, makeup, the lashes, like everything, or else I wouldn't even turn on the camera. So I do love that TikTok gives me that feeling of being like, okay, I can look messy. My room can be a little messy that day. And it's cool. People think it's relatable. I actually really appreciate what TikTok's done for authenticity. And like that, okay, like Instagram for so, so long was about everything looking perfect highly felted highly curated photos often people were photoshopping them TikTok came along was like no we don't want any of that we want authenticity we want to see you and you just got out of bed

we want to see like the messy side and I actually I think that's it was good because Instagram was getting pretty well Well, yeah. And now like that whole perfection thing on Instagram, like that's dead. Nobody wants to see that. And now even these days with the way Gen Z is taking pictures, they want things a little blurry. They want like things like angled weird.

They just want the real. Suits me. But I also think some people take it a little bit too far. But yeah, it's such a vibe. But I also like really like it because it kind of gives you that freedom to not get a perfect picture. Whereas before, I mean, look, I still do this because I like taking pictures, but the fact that, and for me, the fact that I no longer have to take pictures for Instagram makes me, when I go on vacation,

I don't have to force Sam to like take 10,000 pictures of me in this outfit because no one actually cares about that anymore. They want to see the realness. They want to see the design videos. They want like that kind of stuff. So I feel like there's been so many eras of social media and that era of perfection and filtered photos is just over. And I think that's a really good thing. So true. Me too. How do you think social media platforms have changed your life? Oh, it changed everything. Because had I not put up that first YouTube video, I don't think I would be where I am today. That YouTube video allowed me to build a massive audience. It allowed me to build trust with my

audience and people who I have like relationships with who then also want to support me so that when I come out with something, they want to become part of that journey. And to this day, every day I look at the comments, I'm seeing what they want. The girls are asking for, hey, your, your scores are really short. Can you go a little bit longer? So we do design polls to see like, okay, well, how much longer are you talking? Three inches, five inches. And so like, I love working with them and I really, I owe everything to posting on YouTube. And I'm just so happy that that, and who knew that me doing workout videos would one day lead me back to my original childhood dream of becoming a fashion designer.

Like social media has been everything for me. Well, you know what I love about social media? I've been thinking a lot about this recently. It's like the barrier to entry to starting your own business before social media was huge. Yeah. Like you had to have a marketing budget to start any kind of business that you wanted, right? So you might be like,

whether it was a brick and mortar business, whether it was in the service industry, whether it was a brick and mortar business, whether it was in the service industry, whether it's a product-based business, you would have literally had to go and pay upfront to manufacture your yoga Pilates outfits all upfront, then go and have to pay the marketing to then get those into the people's hands. Whereas what I'm so about,

I know that social media gets a bad rap, but what I love about it most is it's completely the other way around like you build an audience for free complete like first off you just build it you can do it now everyone's got an iPhone you can just do it in the back of your car in your house wherever then you create a product to sell to the audience and you don't need marketing budgets at that point because you are the marketing budget and then the content is like paying for itself essentially and that's what we did with boss babe and i just think it's super cool because could you imagine in 2009 being like oh yeah like i want to start this business like where are you getting funding from where like i wouldn't have been able to decide oh yeah let's like's like, you know, build out these types of company.

I did that exact same thing with my, when I was a chiropractor, I reached a ceiling because I didn't have any capital to like go to that next level. And I just think it's really cool around what social media has been able to do from that aspect. I mean, it's just crazy. And like specifically now,

because my top performing content are actually my design videos, which are actually the things that sell the product within hours. It's funny because now the... And this is happening just right now. So this is very raw what I'm telling you. But for the longest time, obviously, fans would come up to me in the streets and say, thank you for helping change my life, all this other stuff, which is amazing. But just recently, because of the viral TikTok videos and my Instagram reels and YouTube shorts about the products going viral, now people come up to me and they're like, are you the leggings girl? Oh my God. It's interesting. And then some people

will just be like, oh, like I've replaced all my Aloe leggings, my Lulu leggings with pop flags. I'm like, oh, wow, that's really cool. And they just see me differently. So people don't even know that I was a YouTuber. It's just just so interesting I actually didn't know you were a YouTuber till after I met you I knew the same thing I was like oh yeah like functional leggings like actually makes sense what she's designing it's like so it to me that is so weird because like I feel like for like 12 years it was always like the fitness side of things and now it's starting to change I'm like oh wait now I actually don't know who the fans actually are

because I haven't had a meetup in so long. What we used to do was I used to have like these huge tours where I would like teach a huge class. I remember in Singapore, we had like 4,000 girls came and we did like squats together and all this stuff. And I knew what that fan was because I haven't done that in so long. Like if I had a meetup now, I don't even know who these people would be, but I think they're all nice. Like

girls who like want functional clothes, but it's just interesting that it's really evolved. Yeah. And then why they follow you. I like following you for behind the scenes. I like that you do the business. And that's what I think too. And I'm happy. I'm really happy about that because it's helping me get out of the fitness industry in that respect. And look, like I said, the best thing I ever did to start all this was post a fitness video. But what I didn't realize was all of the body shaming that I would get and that it would last for the next 13 years. And it was like, I posted that video for 40 students so they could work out with me. I did not expect to look like a fitness model

to show off a big booty or all this stuff, but I would get attacked for it all the time from every angle. And with fitness, it's just like, and nutrition, new trends all the time. If you're not like doing the thing that's cool right now, then you're doing it wrong. And people will shove their thoughts down your throat. And it's just, it was just getting really tiring. But now

with products and entrepreneurship and like talking about that kind of stuff, everyone's just been so positive. It's been great. So I'm glad we met in that way too. Yeah. And I think that's just really powerful because there, there is, like you said, these amazing followers, fans fans community that support everything you do like oh my god I love that you thought about this thing and I want to buy that and support and then there's this other side that you know is harder where it is unsolicited advice or opinions how have you navigate that because social media does have whether you're a consumer or a creator it can have a little bit of a negative

impact on just like anything in life, really on your mental health. Like how have you combated that? What things have you put in place to protect yourself? So like I said, I'm really sensitive, so I still get hurt by them, but it's about the resilience, right? So I feel the feels. And then I try to figure out how can I use these comments in my favor? And this is a thing that I have done quite a few times. And it's not only been great for my mental health, but it's been great viral content as well. So one of the first times

when this just got too much for me, I think it was 2016, I actually had just gained some weight on camera because I had lost weight. And then I was gaining weight and people were like, what's wrong with you? Why are you getting fat? Like, do your programs not work anymore? If you cared about your career, you would lose some weight. I mean, it was just really mean. It was crushing me and, you know, felt the feels. And then I was like, okay, wait, what if I took these comments and then Photoshop myself into what they think they

want me to look like. Because people were saying like, you need a bigger butt. You need some boobs. You don't have boobs. Like there's everything. And so I took this concept where I had the comments flying in as I literally shaved my body down to what they wanted me to look like. And that was the video. I just put it up because I needed it. I needed it for myself. It really was for me. And I called it the perfect body air quotes on perfect. And then that video went crazy viral. That was my first viral video ever. And it was on, I was on good morning America today show. Like it went international viral. And so it's just like, there's so much power when you can take all that energy, right?

It's negative energy, but you can turn it when you can take all that energy, right? It's negative energy, but you can turn it into something positive. So that was the first time I did it. I did it again earlier this year when I was on like a 90 day journey to building muscle. And then people were again, had things to say about me. And then I took those comments and turned that into a video that ended up doing really well going viral as well. And so that's how I've been dealing with the comments. Like I don't do that all the time, but when it gets really bad, like I feel like that's helped me

because it gives me my voice back and also like allows me, and I always blur out their names and stuff, but sometimes people also like to silence you. And I don't know if it's your own community or other people coming in, not believing you, but be like, oh, well, I don't know why you're so affected by all these things. I don't even see these comments, but it's like, you don't, you don't see it because this is not your home. Like people

coming into my home, telling me these nasty things. And so it allows me again, to write that diary for myself to really emote and feel the feelings. So that's how I've dealt with it. But honestly, it's, it's really hard. It's really hard. Do you notice that when, just picking up from this conversation we're having, do you notice that when you speak your truth and you're in your full power, that's actually when most things go really well in your business?

Because just hearing like, oh, I just spoke my truth about this. I put it up for me and then that went viral. Yeah. It's just the pattern I've noticed. And even just deciding like, oh, I don't want to be a doctor, pharmacist, naturopath. I want to follow this. And then your career blowing up. 100%. And when those truths happen, you are going to upset someone really,

really bad. And you have to be okay with that because you have to choose yourself first. And so in that instance, my parents were the ones who were going to be really upset. In the case of me going on like this 90 day journey to, you know, change my physique and stuff. A lot of people felt left behind like, oh, Cassie's changing. Why do you care so much? And, but you see, it's when there's, it's polarizing. Yeah.

And that's, I think that's good. But at the end of the day, if I'm not happy, then there's going to be no more content. There's going to be no more products. So I have to keep Cassie Ho myself excited. And if I want to go on that journey or I want to change my content, then so be it. And if, if you're not along for the ride, then that's cool. We had a good ride together, but maybe my content is not right for you anymore. And that was okay. And that's okay. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. What do you, I know a lot of people want to get onto social media and they want to grow so that they can leave that job that makes them really miserable. So they can create, um, you know, the business that they've been wanting to for so long, or, you know, they just have something to say. They have a message that they really want to get out there more. What would you say to people starting on social media now,

like having that troll side of it, having some of the negative sides, is it all worth it still to you? Are you still glad you do it each day? A hundred percent. I'm so grateful and I feel lucky that I get to do this every day. Don't worry about the troll side. I mean, worry about what your message is. How are you serving your audience, your customer, whatever. Focus on making the best product and best service ever and let it build and deal with the trolls and deal with the negativity when it happens. But you don't need to stop yourself from trying because you're afraid of like this little thing over here. And like, yeah, for me, it was really hard, but it was still a teeny percentage of the entire community. You just have to learn how to deal with it. But look amongst the trolls and the hatred and the criticism you do, like there is truth in the criticism that I love looking

at because that helps improve me, improve my products. And so it's just part of the game. It's fine. It is what it is. I always think too, I'm like, look, you're going to have hard times, whatever you end up doing. You might as well have the hard times doing something that you feel is having a bigger impact and changing your life and the people around you. Yeah. And you're in control. You chose this life. I think that that is the freedom. Do you think you're employable or do you think you're unemployable? I am unemployable. I have two, I change my mind all the time and I have like crazy thoughts.

Yeah, I don't think I'm employable. But I think as well, when you get this like freedom and you get, because that's what social media does bring you. Yeah. I mean, even more so when you build, you create products for your following right yeah so you're even less at the mercy of like the the big stores the retail because I know you're in retail now but like it's still like you have more power going into it because you have a community already 100% and like even in like and yes I have a big

retail target partnership and then I have my D2C pop flex. And 100%, I have less freedom on the retail side. Very much so, the merchandiser, the buyers are telling you what has performed well in store, where you should go. And when I have a new crazy idea, usually the buyers will need to see data. How did it sell? Because they're going off of numbers. Whereas on the pop flex side of things, if I want to create some random thing that I, it solves a problem for me. And like, who knows if anyone else wants it? Like I'll just do it. We'll test it. If it works cool, if not cool, we can kill that too. But you don't get that freedom on the retail side. Yeah. So, so true. And you work with your husband now?

I do. How is that? How does that balance work? Like how do you guys turn off, turn on? I don't think we turn off ever, but we work at home. The entire team is remote and Sam and I are together 24 seven, right? But because we lead like different departments, rarely do we get in fights.

And then, you know, I cook dinner for him. Like, I don't know. There's like this. Yeah. So what departments are you each leading? Because actually, that was a question I was going to ask you. You're doing a lot of content creation. So like, do you have time to run the business?

Is that what Sam's doing? How does this dynamic work? Okay. Yeah. So content is, even though the videos take me 18, 9 hours, that's like a teeny part of my day. So right now in the business, I'm a part, I'm a touch point in almost every process. So from the beginning with the sketch, working the product and development team, that's like every day. Sometimes I get on calls with factories at night as well to make sure things are running smoothly. Marketing, 100%. Strategy, 100%. Sam, he's more finance, analytics, operations. That's him things I'm bad at. So that's where

the split is. The only time when we were fighting was when I used to do a bunch of brand deals and I hated them so much. And like this year we're like really just like slimming down on the brand deals because it goes back to that. Am I employable type thing? Because they come up with a set of rules and like, look, I love a good like sheet telling me, hey, here are the key messaging points and everything and I can follow it. But when I do my video and then you have changes that weren't on that list, I get really mad. And so Sam's like just trying to get both sides to like agree to something. I was like, no, you need to stand up for me. And so we realized because that was such like literally brand deals were becoming such a point of agitation in our

relationship. We're like, you know what? I think we need to like start dropping the brand deals. And now because my videos about products are selling so much, I'm selling my brand. And so I enjoy doing that. But yeah, Sam and I, the reason why we don't clash too much other than the brand deals, which aren't happening too much anymore, we respect each other's areas of expertise and we do not let ego go in the way because it's the ego that is creating problems. Because at the end of the day, we're really just trying to solve problems for our customers and our audience. That's it. So if you put that at the forefront, we need to be collaborating, everybody on the team to solve the problem. That's all it is.

But yeah, I just feel like Sam and I, we don't even get enough of each other. I know that is crazy because we live together, we work together, but I just feel so lucky that it is working out in this way. And I think he puts up with a lot because sometimes I'm just crazy. Well, I think, you know, like sometimes when you are in that creative space, like it can be a bit crazy because that's where they get the best ideas sometimes. And when you're so passionate about something, you're like, no, I want to do it this way.

And there's a reason no one has made the certain types of where that you're trying to create because they're probably not always the easiest to create as well, right? And so I think you have to be, I don't know, I think there's like so much genius that is in the crazy. And I remember like people telling me, oh, you're crazy for starting Boss Baby. You're crazy for leaving chiropractic to go and do this,

which you know nothing about. You're crazy for doing this. But I'm like, you know what? I'm going to start taking crazy as a compliment because on the other edge of crazy as like pure genius but also we also have like this one life you gotta try like what and like nothing wrong with chiropractor but like it's safe like it's good but like what there is more like what else can you do I think that's exciting that's the adventure of life also what I think is like really cool about

social media too, is this is what I did. I didn't leave chiropractic straight away. I literally worked and built Boss Baby. Exactly. Was moonlighting just like you were doing this one in the early days. And I think that's what's really, really awesome about this. Like there was every single one of us can find time to do an extra post or try tiktok or learn about youtube whatever it is you just have to carve out the time because it's important enough for you yeah what you have going on but yes if there's something that's important to you no matter what else is happening you always find the time i actually think about that a lot when i'm like oh i haven't got time for that i'm like oh why is this not that why is this not that

important to me right now that's really interesting um and even actually just on this conversation I was like oh I should be doing this why haven't I done that already and you know I could use excuse about time but being more wise about where I spend it and how I spend it and how much would I say yes when I say yes to something I'm saying no to something else and vice versa when I'm saying no to something means I'm saying no to something else and vice versa. When I'm saying no to something, it means I'm saying yes to something else. I think it's a really interesting balance. Yeah. And like for me, it's always about do more of the things that bring you joy and less of the things that don't. So whether that's in career or hobbies, people even, like whatever it is, like you kind of have to let that guide you too. And maybe that's the answer to the

question you had at the top of this interview, which was how can you be in tune with it I think that's how just figure out what makes you smile and let that lead you oh I love like catch catch the smiles and take notice of what they're from yeah I love that that's why I started doing the podcast back in person because I took it virtually for a while and I was like this doesn't make me smile as much it's like so much harder to have a relationship through the screen versus like in person because I took it virtually for a while and I was like this doesn't make me smile as much it's like so much harder to have a relationship through the screen versus like in person like the conversations are so much more fun right and and like looking into your eyes directly the energy in this room it's just different yeah yeah and I think like each of us gets to explore that and social media is a great testing ground YouTube YouTube is a great testing ground for like

the things that all might light you up. So if from today, obviously we've been talking a lot about social media influence. If social media went away tomorrow, how, what would you do that would move the needle in your business? I mean, at least I still have the products. Like that is still a thing. I think I'd have to open stores. That's what I would do. I wouldn't have the same social media marketing channels, but then do we think about commercials? I don't know. I just have to find ways to get the word out. But next year, 2020, I think it's going to be extremely exciting because we're going to start doing pop-up events, pop-up stores and stuff. Are you going to do it at the Grove? I love that little pop-up section. We're scouting locations right now. And so whatever it is, the community aspect will never

die. So maybe the community is offline now, but you still get the people together. You still give them experience. Because the thing is, I think stores are fun. Like is offline now, but you still get the people together. You still give them experience. Because the thing is, I think stores are fun. Like I love shopping, but in order for stores to survive, they have to become an experience. So how are we going to turn the store into like a playground experience

for the fans, for the customers to truly like get into the vibe that I'm trying to like, the theme behind this designer, this collection. And so that's something we're going to test next year. So that's what would happen. I love how your mind works out and I can see how you've built community from this because you spoke about hooks, like bringing people in, you speak about experiences, you listen to your community, you're always asking questions and then you're always keeping it fresh and new. So just reflecting

those things. I'm like, that is why you have built the huge audience that you have. Because your mind is always about innovation and putting the customer first. And I think that's what makes a really powerful, not just community, but a really powerful business. Thank you. When someone does that.

And it keeps me excited. Like if things are too routine, it's boring and I hate boring. So we just got to keep trying things. So I have a question. We're starting to ask this on the podcast at the end. Natalie and I have always been really into morning routines. Okay.

So I'm curious, do you have a morning routine? If so, what is it? I don't have like a beautiful morning routine, but I wake up and I check my Slack right away. Like I think most people like, yeah, this is a terrible morning. Which is I do that just to make sure nothing crazy happened overnight. Anyway, then I like freshen up and then I will work out every single morning. I work out and right now I'm super into running. And so that's what I'm doing. I'm running inside on a treadmill and I love putting on a show and I'm super like,

this is the other side of me. I'm really into historical female like power figures because history has been written by men, the winners of wars, and you never hear about the women behind the men. And so I've gotten into a whole genre. Yeah, no, I just like, I love learning about like Queen Victoria and all these people. And some of them really sad and had terrible demises, but I love learning about it because it teaches you a lot about, I don't know, it's just,

it's like it's politics and it's society and it's culture and it's women, like in a time when men ruled. And I just love that. And so I will run for maybe 30 minutes with a show on or a documentary. And then I will, I will run for maybe 30 minutes with a show on or a documentary. And then after that, I just go straight into my day. I just start working until whenever, sometimes I end at a decent time, like seven or eight. And sometimes I'm up until

four, like it just, whatever I need to get done that day is what I get done. I love that. A decent time, seven or eight. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Brilliant. Well, Cassie, thank you so much for coming on the Boss Baby podcast. You've been amazing. Do you want to share your handles and links where people can find you? Yeah, sure. I'm at blogilates on everything. So that's B-L-O-G-I-L-A-T-E-S. It's like Pilates with blog at the front. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's where you can find me on everywhere. Oh my God. I love it. And we're going to all be buying now your apparel and your Pilates bags, all the things. And I'm going to get one of the-

Yes, please help. That one needs a little bit of help. I'll help you with that one. Thank you. Thank you so much for listening. And if you enjoyed this episode on the Boss Babe podcast, then I'd absolutely love it if you leave us a review. As a thank you, we'll send you our side hustle success kit, your simple no BS guide to keeping track of everything that you need to do

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