the bossbabe podcast - 26. Balancing Feminine and Masculine Energy as Highly Ambitious Women with Sophie Chiche, Alexi Panos, Emily Gallagher, and Natalie Ellis

Episode Date: July 31, 2019

In episode 3 of BTS, hosts Natalie Ellis, Alexi Panos, and Emily Gallagher invite Sophie Chiche to join the table for more behind-the-scenes conversations. Sophie is a psychologist, entrepreneur, speaker, author and founder of Shape House, an urban sweat lodge that allows you to sweat in a holistic way to improve your physical, emotional, mental and spiritual wellness. The four boss babes share everything from how to balance the masculine and feminine energies – especially as ambitious women – to what it looks like being in relationships with partners who are also really driven and strong-minded and what they’ve really learnt from that. You’ll definitely want to hear their insights into balancing motherhood with entrepreneurship and really leaning into that philosophy of harmony.  They expand on the act of self-love and cultivating a deep trust of self. It gets real and honest as they navigate the conversations that everyone really wants to be having but might not be comfortable doing so. This episode is brought to you by the Insta Growth Accelerator, a 12-week accelerator designed to show you how to grow and monetize your Instagram account. Discover how to grow your audience on Instagram by 10,000 ideal clients in 30 days: bossbabe.com/ig-growth.

Welcome to this takeover of BTS on the Boss Babe podcast. The BTS takeover is the product of me, Natalie Ellis, and my two friends, Emily Gallagher and Alexi Panos, as we sat down to have real open behind the scenes, vulnerable conversations with women that we really look up to. For this entire week, BTS conversations will be taken over the podcast and we really can't wait to hear what you think. As always, share and tag us on social media, letting us know what your biggest takeaway was, as we'd love to know which conversations we should have next. This episode is brought to you by the Boss Babe Insta Growth Accelerator, a 12-week program designed to help

you grow and monetize your Instagram account. If you're ready to grow your audience with your absolute ideal clients who are throwing their credit cards at you, then listen up. I've created a completely free 90-minute training to show you how to do exactly that. I'm taking you through the step-by-step strategy to attracting 10,000 ideal clients as followers over the next 30 days. If you know that growing your audience with ideal clients who can't wait to buy from you would completely change the game, then this training is for you. As I said, it's totally free. I just recommend turning up with a journal and getting rid of all distractions as we waste no time getting into the nitty gritty specifics. You know that I love specifics to get started with the training just head to bossbabe.com forward slash ig dash growth or hit the link in the show notes

below in this episode we invite Sophie Sheesh to join the table for more behind the scenes conversations Sophie is a psychologist and entrepreneur she's a speaker author and founder of Shapehouse an urban sweat lodge with locations around LA that allows you to sweat in a holistic way to improve your physical, emotional, mental and spiritual wellness. We talk about everything from how to balance the masculine and feminine energies as ambitious women, what it looks like being in relationships with partners who are also really driven and strong-minded and what we've really learned from that as well as balancing motherhood with entrepreneurship and leaning into that philosophy of harmony it gets real and honest as we navigate the conversations that we all really want to be having but might not be comfortable doing so so without giving any more away let's just dive straight into this episode

i learned the word duande last night you guys know about the word duande no do you have duande no it's like a poem from Federico Garcia Lorca oh it sounds so sexy you are so cultured you sold me I'm already impressed I'm already

you don't even have to tell me what the poem's about I wasn't trying to impress you I was just trying to share wait are we started but now now tell me what the poem's about you gotta tell us

what does this word mean so duande is this thing what I understood of duande is that it's what comes from the earth that charges us. It's like energy.

You know, there's different energies like, you know, Duande. How do we spell that? D-U-E-N-D-E. Duande. And, you know,

it's like it's, some people don't have it. They're not as grounded. You know, it's like Duande has, it's like, you know, fuego. Like grit.

Fuego is a good word for Duande. Fuego. Fuego, Duande. I love this. So you have left your chambers of book writing to be with us today. I did. My cave.

I actually put lipstick on and my lips went, what are you doing? What's happening? What's happening right now? So tell us about your book. Like, what are you writing? Wow. What am I writing? Well, so I've personally lost 200 pounds.

That's kind of the onset of the story. No big deal. No big deal. I've lost 200 pounds. That's kind of the onset of the story. No big deal. No big deal. I've lost two and a half. Two of you. And so, you know, the book was a desire to think about the way we eat and the way we relate to our bodies a little bit differently. I kind of wanted to go at it creatively and matching my personal story and how I went from being 350 pounds to not being that. And so it's kind of a journey.

And it's taking me places I didn't realize we were going to go. that. And so it's kind of a journey and it's taking me places I didn't realize we were going to go. But I'm following it and I'm liking and it's not an easy process, writing a book. It's really not easy. Especially the editing part, right? The editing is the worst.

Because I feel like I write like I'm delivering a baby. It's like, okay, done. And then you have to raise the baby. Your baby right here needs their eyebrow changed. Exactly. I made that eyebrow. It's perfect, okay, done. You have to raise the baby. Your baby right here needs their eyebrow changed. I made that eyebrow. It's perfect. What are you talking about? That's exactly right. Awesome.

You are so much more than losing 200 pounds. What else is coming out for you in the book? You're a successful founder of an amazing business. You are a powerhouse. You've delivered multiple TED Talks. You are so much more than that. And she's sassy as hell. Oh, I mean, you are about to experience Sophie Sheesh experience. I got a taste of her at one of Em's events and I was like, I like her. I did the same thing with you. That's why we're here again. We liked each other.

So what are some of the things that you're experiencing through the writing process that maybe you didn't anticipate coming up for you? It's actually vulnerability more. I feel like, as you described, I've done my life probably a bit in my masculine more. Like I've done a lot and I've accomplished a lot and I've proven that I can do a lot. And now I'm coming back to more of a being with myself. And what's coming out of that is actually quieter and yet fierce, more. It's like a warrior energy.

But not from a... Duande. Duande. Duande energy. Duande and fierce is like, get out of the room. It's about to get real. Exactly. So, you know, it's been interesting to not...

Because in the past past I kind of understood feminine to be drop my masculine, be less, like I actually joke, sorry for the blondes in the room, but I joke like after

I just took a workshop to tap into my feminine and I was joking that by Monday I'd be, you know, blonde and not very smart, which is so horrible. I'm sorry.

I apologize. It's all right. But you know, I've kind of equated being feminine to not being, being space cadet-y a little bit. Actually, in our thing, there were 44 women, and every day, my keys this and my bag that and my things. People were losing everything. And I was like, you know, so much estrogen.

And I'm not that. I'm a very grounded, very grande type of person. And so it was hard for me to visualize what embracing more of my feminine would look like. And so someone recently, since you talked about running a company, someone recently said, so I was sharing the struggle that when I'm with a man and I finish my day of being captain of the army and I do have 300 people on staff or whatever we have now and I do a day of that. And then I come home and I'm like, oh, like, can I fall apart now? You're supposed to lead me now? No, actually not. That's the thing.

It's like I wasn't falling apart. I was more like more, just more captain of industry, you know, because, you know. And a friend of mine said, so I said it was difficult for me to switch from being so masculine or so not masculine. I guess masculine, just, you know, doing, doing, doing, drive. Exactly.'re driven to not be. And he said, no, no, no, you missed the whole thing. It's like, you need to run your company from a feminine place. And I was like, what does that mean? Like, how do you, you know, how do you accomplish anything? But when you look at the qualities that are more in the feminine, which are receptivity and intuition and listening and creativity actually, and dance, you know,

like all of that. It's like I've really, I've shifted the way I run my company. So I don't have to, it's not a, you know, dramatic shift to get out of there because now, you know, I feel like I'm less, I'm more myself both ways. In all areas. In all areas, exactly. So more integrated. It's more integrated.

It's also more, it's more honest. You know, there's something about like I would push the feminine when I think, well, I better be feminine now. I think what's integrating is a genuine sense of self. Like people would ask me, you know, like, what do you actually feel right now? And I'd be like, I don't know. It's like I'm too, because I was raised by very narcissistic people to just drive in. Yeah, of course. Right there.

That's where we are at. And so, you know, narcissistic people train their surroundings to make them the most important thing. And so as a child, I grew up a little bit with like, I don't know what I feel. I feel like I need to do what I need to make this thing not go crazy. Yeah. You know, so I did a lot of that. And so eventually I became in tune. Like I know how to solve a lot of things for other people.

But ultimately, I kind of don't until recently, because now I am. But there's something more, I'm allowing myself to actually feel what annoys me. And like earlier I was with someone that did something annoying and I was like, well, that's annoying. And I was like, whoa, what just happened?

I like that. What just happened? Yeah. And you know, it's interesting. I think the women sitting here have all, I mean, just knowing both of you and knowing you and knowing myself, we've all kind of battled with that, right? Like we're badasses in our business.

And I think for a long time, I made that mean like, oh, I'm more masculine in my business. But actually the qualities that have made me the most successful are the feminine ones. And, you know, the masculine ones too, right? Like when they work together, it's like fucking magic sauce. But I do find in relationship, it's been challenging for me to like come home and, and settle and like be in a different space

instead of like charge, charge, charge. But also like, how do I integrate both in my relationship? And that's been a journey for me. I'd love to hear what you guys think about that as well that's a big journey for me um and I used to you know be so in my masculine pushing pushing pushing it's probably why my testosterone is so high working on that um but like really really pushing and it would show up so much in my relationship in that I was so alpha yeah I was you know I would never back down from a fight or i'd come home and i'd be you know okay i've planned us this for the weekend i'm taking control of this and all of these different things and about i would say like just under a year ago something switched in me and i kind of activated this like what i call warrior goddess mode where the the feminine in me is so fucking powerful and being able to tap into the creativity

that i have in my feminine the the nourishment that i have there but also you know bringing in the drive the masculine and and that's what i think boss babe to me means it's the boss is masculine babe is feminine and i don't think that I would have gotten here without all the feminine but I didn't tap into that and I'm definitely trying to do it more in my relationship too I used to think feminine like you were saying is like taking a bath when I feel stressed or you know wearing a dress just to feel more like feminine but it's not make sure it's flowy though it's got to be I know it's got to be it's got to be flowy. I know it's got to be, it's got to have flowers on. Right. But that's what I thought it was. And it's, it's been like a big change in my relationship too, to be able to like, to be more vulnerable. I mean, the first time I ever

got really vulnerable and cried to Steven, he just stopped and kind of looked at me and was like, I don't know what's going on, but like, I like it. And it's so rare for me to say like, I need you right now. And for me to do that, that's what I think is leaning more into my feminine of knowing that I can lean on others and I don't have to be driving and pushing. Yeah. What about you, Anne? Yeah. I mean, I think it is that, I mean, circling back to around some of the things we were saying earlier about, you know, business being kind of a part of what we do, but not the whole piece. And I think that when we become some certain person so that we can go to work and become this person, it's kind of like, then how do we switch out of that? Whereas it's like, how do I want to be in my life? And then how do I then create a business that supports me

in staying in that space? You know, and I think as, you know, primarily most women are naturally in their feminine, like, dominant, and most men are masculine and dominant. It's not like all the time. But if you are naturally more of a feminine woman, then it feels more natural to be in that space. So I think finding, you know, finding situations where you can make sure that you are in that energy is really supportive and not having to switch in and out. And I think also, like, I made myself really wrong for being like in my masculine a lot. And I was told I was, you know, like by people like, you know, sometimes jokingly. And then you kind of build this mentality of like, oh, I'm so masculine and that's wrong. And like, yeah, like it's wrong to be driven or it's wrong to be this.

It's wrong to get things done and be like X, Y, and Z. And it's just like that's actually such a powerful, a powerful trait to have to create and not making that even wrong, but finding a way that that really fits in with how you want to feel and how you can associate to that as well. Yeah. You know, it's interesting. And we had this conversation in Jamaica. I'm in this like weird place of like, even looking at the concept of masculine and feminine and going like, well, fuck you. Like the whole concept is kind of like, even looking at the concept of masculine and feminine and going like, well, fuck you. Like the whole concept is kind of like done us under as women, I think. And as men, I think a lot of men are battling with like, oh, you're too feminine or you're not masculine enough or you're too masculine. And it's like another way for us to punish ourselves and like

put us on this scale of like, well, where do you fall? And now are you a good enough woman? And now are you a good enough man? And like after giving birth and doing it naturally at home, I'm like, yo, all this stuff I thought was masculine is actually the most feminine in the world. And I didn't recognize how powerful the feminine was because same, I had these stories like all feminines week and blah, blah, blah. And I was always more in my masculine and punished for it by every man I had ever dated. But then giving birth, I'm like, oh, those are actually my feminine qualities. And that's why I think it's like, it can go both ways, right? I think sometimes what we call masculine is actually really feminine.

And sometimes what we call feminine is masculine because I think it's all human. And like the humanness is just about exploring that scale based on what's alive for us and being really honest about where we're at. Yeah. I like thinking about it as a polarity. You know, it's like the way your batteries in your car wouldn't work if you didn't have, you know, one way that the energy is sent is positive and the other one's negative. It's a similar thing. It's like if you take feminine, very feminine energy and it's like too much of that, it's like not much gets done if you're only in your feminine. But when you partner it with, whether it's a woman who's carrying it

or a man who's carrying it, as you were saying, there's something though to accepting that it is different though, that has changed hugely for me. Because in my world and the philosophical people I tend to have conversations with, it's like there's a lot of integration and we should all be one because we're all human.

And certainly no judgment there. But it's like we're not questioning if a giraffe is the same thing as a zebra. It's different things. Men really do process information differently. We process it. And also we have different gifts. It's like when I tapped into this weekend was a force that I've never... Because I was, you know, in Paris,

there is a lot of energy that was used. Women are sexually objectified, not just in France, but particularly in France, I think. There is something a lot about the way you look is really pretty much all there is. And I grew up with a lot of not wanting to be that. I will be the opposite of that. And I lost something that's really beautiful,

which is this incredible yearning for life and ache that I've also, I felt ache this weekend like I have not felt ache before. And I've allowed myself to go there. And there were a few. So I did this workshop this weekend, which was very much, that's why we're talking about the feminine masculine. I wouldn't have brought it up otherwise. But it was beautiful to watch what a man does when, or the masculine anchored in a male body, I guess,

when I was able to just relax and be in my own pleasure almost, not pleasure sexually, but just the pleasure of being myself and to watch this like melting of the difference because we had acknowledged the difference. Does that make sense like there's a union that comes from you know not not actually being the same thing but being two different things that come together yeah it makes sense yeah i appreciate that let's take a quick pause to talk about my new favorite all-in-one platform kajabi you know i've been singing their praises lately because they have helped our business run so much smoother and with way less complexity which i love not to mention our team couldn't be happier because now everything is in one place so it makes collecting data, creating pages,

collecting payment, all the things so much simpler. One of our mottos at Boss Babe is simplify to amplify and Kajabi has really helped us do that this year. So of course I needed to share it here with you. It's the perfect time of year to do a bit of spring cleaning in your business you know get rid of the complexity and instead really focus on getting organized and making things as smooth as possible I definitely recommend Kajabi to all of my clients and students so if you're listening and haven't checked out Kajabi yet now is the perfect time to do so because they are offering boss babe listeners a 30-day free trial go to kajabi.com slash boss babe to claim your 30-day free trial that's kajabi.com

slash boss babe yeah and i feel like for i mean i know for you and i because we've had this conversation in the past and you know probably also all of us at this table but i think again you sort of alluded to around the safety of like, you grew up in a narcissistic family and you had to protect yourself. And that's sort of, you know, the feminine is more of the receiving, the softening, the allowing. And when you didn't get necessarily get the opportunity to do that when you were growing up, then it's natural that, you know, the defenses would be a little higher and it would be a little more likely that we would have gone into that space to be, you know, slightly protective of ourselves, you know? Yeah. There's something, I guess I'm interested in creativity right now

and kind of the freedom of being, as you were saying earlier, Lex, it's like, there's something about allowing all of it. Like there really is no need to be one more than the other, less than this or more than, it's like, even as a partnership, I don't have an actual partner. I'm not in a relationship right now, but there's something even as a partnership, I don't have an actual partner. I'm not in a relationship right now. But there's something really beautiful about saying, all right, you got the ball right now. And it's like maybe you plan the day. And then next Saturday I will. And it becomes a choice and it becomes a deliberate, which is actually very masculine.

But it becomes kind of like a partnership to decide who kind of takes the lead. Like a dance. Like a dance. Exactly like a dance, actually. And I love that because when we're dancing with life, we're actually who kind of takes the lead. Like a dance. Like a dance. Exactly like a dance, actually. And I love that because when we're dancing with life, we're actually truly present to what's here. Yes. And with where we're at in this moment and what we require in this moment. And I think, you know, speaking to this whole conversation, the biggest aha for me was can I actually honor what I'm feeling right now and ask for what I need in this moment or do what I want to do in this moment.

Yes. Depending on where I'm at. So it's like dancing with that energy and having a partner who's willing to do the dance with you. Because by the way, when you say, I need something or I want something, the other one doesn't really have to do it. The other one can also be in their truth

and be kind of like, right now, I kind of want to go take a bath. And be the one who's like, you know, you, let's do two separate baths. And then exactly. Exactly. And it becomes, we added to each other as opposed to mine took away from yours, which is not ever uninteresting. Exactly. And it becomes we added to each other as opposed to

mine took away from yours, which is not ever an interesting dynamic. Yeah. So interesting. I do think there's a lot that we learn in relationship

to other beings, especially our intimate partnerships. I know you two are both currently single. What are you learning? And I'll just live vicariously through you

for a moment because I'm in committed partnership. We do it with you too. Perfect. Tell me like what's been some of the juicy takeaways that you've gotten through just experiencing, you know, the opposite sex

and exploring partnership and dating and all of those things. Well, it's interesting because, thank you for asking that. It's really beautiful. I, until two weeks ago, was very much into having one partner and finding the person. And then you have dinner with someone and it's like you're checking

your boxes. Does he have that? Does he have that? Oh, he doesn't have that. Oh, you just drank wine. I don't, you know, and be really so specific about what I'm looking for that I end up missing what I'm looking for. And so two weeks ago, inspired by a friend of mine who had this beautiful guidance for me, I thought, which is to be dating multiple people. And I was polyamorous for a moment years ago. This is different. This is not, because polyamorous for me is more about being in multiple relationships, but it integrates with one main relationship. And in this case, it's more, I just have different relationships with different men and I do different things with, you know, different one of them. And so one really loves to dance, but really doesn't like to talk business. And this other one really loves to talk

business, but, you know, has two left feet and it's fine. Like it doesn't have to be held by one person. And somehow even saying it, I can hear that my nervous system is a little bit like, wow, like what, where is that, You know, really fitting it all. But it's fitting really well for me because that's how I do my life. You know, it's like I have, you know, I ride a Harley and that's, there's my crew I ride my Harley with. And then I raise my kid. And then when I do that, I do that and run my company and dance. You know, I do ecstatic dancing, which is a whole different beast.

And it's like life truly is different facets. And, you know, if there is one that at some point I enjoy sharing all of those things. But for now, I don't. Mixing it up. That's fun. I like that. That's juicy. What about you? Well, Soph and I actually had a little sleepover the other night, which was really, really fun.

We were deep diving. Which you can do when you're single. Yeah. Exactly. I love adult sleepovers. It was awesome. And, you know, we were kind of diving into this topic and just talking about our experiences and what comes up for us

and things like that. And actually, though, it was, you know, one of the conversations, you know, one of the things that we shared was, you know, like a tendency to in the past put guys on a pedestal. So like often I'll put a guy on a pedestal and like then sort of almost like devalue myself and what I bring to the table. And like, I'm really stepping out of that and into this like ownership and, and really, you know, we've chatted about this in the past too, around this, like this, not, not do you choose me? Do I choose you? Like, and really like flipping the switch around, like,

why would my filter be, am I good enough for you? Why is it not? Are you good enough for me? And not in a way that it's like I'm judging and whatever, but it's like that should be our context always when we're thinking about that. And, you know, a conversation that we had at South by Southwest was, you know, the tendency to be like, okay, like, you know, I know I'm looking to find my person, but it's like it doesn't mean that everybody that I meet has to be the person.

And it's like there's a lot of fun that can be had along the way by like taking down this barrier or this filter of like are you the person? Are you the person? Are you the person. And it's like, there's a lot of fun that can be had along the way by like taking down this barrier or this filter of like, are you the person? Are you the person? Are you the person? And actually like, I've really stepped into this like levity

and this fun and this play of just like, oh, like kind of like what Soph was saying, like, oh, maybe we're going to go and dance together and maybe you'll be the person I'll do this with.

And just having that freedom and that, I think as well, that surrender and that trust around like just doing what feels good and not putting too many rules around it yeah like it is what it is don't try and make it yeah something that it's not even there yet totally yeah and that's really just kind of added a lot more space and just freedom and fun into the whole into the whole thing because then it's not again it's not trying to get somewhere right it's like this is fun right here so it's not like there's no pressure of like you know I'm trying to create this outcome which is you and me getting married or whatever it's just like oh this is a fun thing let's it's not like there's no pressure of like, you know, I'm trying to create this outcome,

which is you and me getting married or whatever. It's just like, oh, this is a fun thing. Let's go and do that. And it just makes the whole thing. And it makes my entire context different. Yeah.

You know, it totally does. Yeah. And I think, I mean, I don't know if you feel this way, but I feel like women, especially here in the States,

it's almost like we've been trained to go, do you choose me? Like, do you pick me? Because of all the freaking Disney movies or whatever you want to attribute it to. It's like, you know, puppy dog eyes. I'm like, I'll do everything that I need to do to be who you need me to be so that I'm like the perfect woman. Like, come on. Right. And I found myself doing that. And that was a conversation we were having at

South by is I noticed for so long, it was like bending over backwards, trying to be who I thought you needed me to be so that I'm like, oh, wow, you're everything I've ever wanted. Versus going, wait a second, like, I haven't actually selected you. Like you just selected me and I just said, yes. Like, what is that about? And it's so interesting because with Preston, my husband, like he was the first guy that I actually like consciously chose and said like, you know, you court me and I'm going to see if I choose you after a month of you consistently courting me and like didn't kiss him. Like I made him work for it. And it was so great because I consciously chose him. And that

choice has kept us together, you know, like in the tough times when both of us wanted to walk away, it's like, well, I chose him and I get to keep choosing him. So that was just a really beautiful reminder for me. Like I get to choose so I can keep choosing in the future. Do you find yourself, since you are in a relationship, how long have you been with Preston? Six years. Do you find yourself having to, is it impairing your growth or is it completely feeding it? Like where does it sit? No?

No good? Girl, I'm growing like a crazy person. I don't know if you feel this way, Natalie, because you've been with Stephen for how long? Two years. Two years. So from the get, Preston and I coming together because we're both so insanely committed to our own work and we've been that. And when we came together, it was like we couldn't fake the funk anymore.

We couldn't just pretend like we were so enlightened because we had someone being like, um, right there, you're not. That area right there. You're going to want to look right there to the left a little bit. It's like, we legit are so, and we're so frank. Both of us are very frank and direct that we do not hold back. Like we don't hold punches. We say it like it is. And unfortunately we both have, fortunately, we both have fiery personalities and sometimes that can be explosive. Right. But in those explosions, we've both had to like really lean in. And because we're so committed to ourselves, we've leaned in and gone, okay, where's my work? Where's my edge? What am I not willing to see about myself and my own wounding and my own suffering parts of my personality that I'm trying to project onto my partner. And it's been such a powerful mirror for me that I have grown

exponentially in the last six years that I attribute most of my success as a human, but also as a mother, also as a businesswoman to being in powerful partnership with him. Yeah. I'm fully in agreement with everything you said. Like getting married was the biggest kind of rocket ship into growth that I could ever have imagined. And we're both the same. We're very direct. We, both of us coming together, we knew exactly what we wanted. app and hunted me down DM me it was like okay like let's go out and from day one he knew okay this is this is who I'm gonna be with and it took me about three days to kind of choose the same thing yeah and then once we kind of made that decision that was it and we were like okay so we're gonna get married like that's happening like we got married after six months like it was very much like we knew we both just knew exactly what we wanted um but with that directness and knowing what we want we know exactly what we don't want to right there's another side to that oh yeah and

so it's a lot of that yeah like the two of us being in being so direct and so fiery that in that moment it takes every inch of your body not to snap and flip and just breathe and be like, oh, what is this teaching me? But do you snap? Sometimes. Yeah, I snap too. Sometimes, yeah. How do you recover when you snap? How do you recover when you snap, either one of you?

Or Em, I mean, you've been in relationships. I don't snap. I'm sure you've snapped before. She's perfect. She's totally perfect. In my next relationship, obviously, I'm going to have none of these problems. It's going to be amazing. We'll float on clouds

the whole time. So when I snap, I try and remove myself from the situation. Oh, interesting. So if I snap, it normally looks like me like raising my voice

or slamming a door, like whatever it is or saying things intentionally hurtful. And I catch myself as much as I can. and the best thing I can do is leave the situation so I will go in a bedroom or I'll say I'm coming back and I will leave and I try now to do it in a way of like I'm not walking out on us or what we're doing I'm walking

out on this energy and I'm gonna come back and he does the same he doesn't he's not so much fiery like he's very calm, but inside he is. And he can still say hurtful things, but in a very calm way. So then we try and take a break and then come back. And we have these conversations where we say, okay, can you sit in this space in respect and have a conversation

and have an uncomfortable conversation? And if the answer's yes, and we're both available for it, we'll sit and we'll have like a really difficult conversation. But I mean, I definitely snap. Like that's one of my edges. I snap too. I think if you're a human, you snap

because like we all hit breaking points, right? Like I think we all do our best or at least we think we're doing our best. Maybe even when we're not, we're like, you're doing a great job. Maybe not, but we think we are. And then when we feel like we're doing so much and putting our best foot forward and then someone's not appreciating us or they're pointing out the things that we could be doing better, it's like, fuck. Give me a break. Right. Exactly. And I think that's been

my edge is feeling like I'm going above and beyond whether I am or not, who knows. But in my own humble opinion, feeling like I'm doing all the things and like feeling like I'm, you know, stretching myself to be a good mother and a good partner and a great business woman and all the things. And then finding out when my partner's not fully satisfied. It's like, I take that personally because I love living in excellence and doing my best classic overachiever that truthfully my hurt and my snap is like I'm frustrated with the fact that I haven't been able to like fix this or make this better. And every time I snap, I take a moment as well. I take at least 10 minutes and just recalibrate my nervous system, breathe, go in a separate room. And I literally open up my phone. I'm sure I have so many notes in my phone where I just write notes on like, how am I responsible for this? How did I create this?

What does my partner need right now? What do I need right now? What could I do that would bring more love into this situation when I go back in that room? And I literally, I used to write notes about how terrible he was. Like I used to go on my phone, I'm going to record all of your terribleness so I can play it back for you tomorrow. And then I recognized like, hmm, that's probably not really the most- That's probably not going to be helping our relationship much. Feels good though. It feels really good to be in my victim right now. But it's been so helpful to call myself out, right? And actually write it down and see it. I'm such a visual person.

And to see the words written in front of me, it's like, yep, subconsciously, I know I need to do those things, but I want to be mad right now. I want to throw a temper tantrum right now because of this. And then I try and get under what that's actually about. And it's usually when I'm feeling really stressed out and overworked and like too much pressure from whatever is going on that that happens. Because a lot of times we'll disagree. And if I'm in a really good space, I'll just be like, all right, I hear you, babe. And like, I don't really agree with you, but like, I hear you and I love you. And we'll just agree to disagree on that. It's like the difference between responding and reacting.

For sure. For sure. And I think a lot of us in life, like we're in reaction mode so much because we do have so much on. And I know you've kind of taken a break from that, essentially, where you've given yourself more space. Have you noticed a difference since you shifted your energy and your context in life with how you react versus respond? Yeah, I think for sure. I mean, I guess because there's, yeah, there's not really like a lot of, I mean, I'm not in a relationship,

so I'm not in that kind of that space every day. I feel like you know anytime I'm asked how I am recently like I'm just like amazing so I was like my context right now is very like elevated and like happy and so from that space I'm I definitely don't feel like I've been getting like triggered I'm just like everything's kind of rolling off the back a little bit you don't have a partner. I'm not living with a trigger. But I think for sure, but I'm not in the trenches of getting that tested.

You know what I mean? But even like we just left this scenario at a maximum security prison a couple of days ago and Em in the car at home, she's like, if any of my friends complain to me about any bullshit,

she's like, I'm just going to be like, are you in maximum security prison right now? can you do whatever you want to do yes you can you know it's like stop complaining stop complaining like it could be so much worse and I think yeah we often get into like these really myopic viewpoints of like oh everything's so terrible but is it like we're breathing we're alive're alive. And we wish it in, right? Like I remember thinking like when I was dating also multiple people

and like it felt great, but deep down I was like, I want to be in a relationship with someone that is so ambitious and is growth oriented the same way I did. So I called it in and then I got it

and I was like, well, this is a bit of a hurricane. Right. So in those crazy moments, I try and remember like, this is what you wanted. Yeah. Well, that's why I feel when I was like, well, this is a bit of a hurricane. Right. So in those crazy moments, I try and remember like this is what you wanted. Well, that's how I feel when people are like, I really want a conscious partnership. I just want to be in a

conscious couple. I'm like, are you sure? Our cameraman right now is like, no, you don't. Be careful what you wish for. That's a real thing. Because it's true. I say a conscious partnership is just being more conscious of your own bullshit and actually bringing that to the table and then having the ability to see somebody else's bullshit because you can see yours so well that now you're calling each other on your bullshit. So there's like more turbulence to navigate.

Yeah. But the growth is amazing. So you really got to be growth minded, oriented to really go, you know what? I'm in this to grow. I'm in this to expand, to be my fullest expression. And you're going to be my greatest teacher. Thank you. Even though I hate you right now. I love you. Yeah. I mean, and we've sort of spoken about this a little bit as well, just around, you know,

because there's that little bit of ego that like wants to be right and wants to like have the last word and like, you know, like small know like small right and it's it's again see like that was one of the things again that i learned you know at the at the prison was just like around how quick we are to judge without really seeking to understand and i think that that when we snap and when we're making those harsh judgments and we're like reacting is when we're making those quick judgments and we're not taking into account why that person just did whatever it was that they did and when we can actually put that space in between our assumption and our judgment and our reaction and actually first try to go, okay, like, you know, we were with people that were murderers and people that had

committed heinous crimes. And all I saw was little boys and boys that had tragic things occur to them. And we saw that through the many exercises and, you know, the level of understanding and empathy and compassion that was created through that experience really taught me just that's happening all over our lives. You know, everybody has so much trauma and so many things that have happened. And what would it look like for us to put that space in between that where we just sometimes want to be right and want to point the finger and want to blame and actually go, okay, like how could I really seek to understand why you're having this reaction or why you're thinking

this or why you're needing this from me? And then, you know, it's like, it takes that, you know, I used to say like the person with the highest consciousness has the highest responsibility, right? So it's like, if you know better, then in that moment, it's kind of on your shoulders to try to do better in that situation and like actually come with more empathy and come with more understanding to meet them there, which is not always easy. I love this, but I also want to point out that that same process gets to happen with ourselves, right? So like when we're judging ourselves and we're looking at like all the ways in which we're not whatever, fill in the blank, whatever stories we have, we get to really go back and go like, where did this start? Like,

where's the little girl or the little boy who just wants love, who just wants to feel human and accepted and embraced? And that is true compassion. And it starts with compassion for the self so that we can then have that and feel that for others. I love what you said earlier when you spoke of nervous system, because I'm discovering that it's not my will. It's not even my desire. Like sometimes it literally, truly is my nervous system. It's like the same way I can't just like pick up now

and go, you know, climb Everest or whatever. My lung capacity couldn't do it. Like there'd be something to like, right now you cannot breathe anymore. You're going to die. You know? And I find myself-

You're not trained for this. You're not trained. And it's like, if anything, I personally, I can speak for myself, but it's like I've trained myself to do the opposite, not the climbing of Everest, but just, you know, in relationship, I shut down when something hurts as opposed to, you know, like the heart kind of always re-expands after shutting down, it reopens. And sometimes I'm able to do and sometimes not. But I do think that looking at it from a physiological perspective is

interesting because it's one more way that we beat ourselves up. I should have been more loving. It's like, no, your body was really scared and you were like in a fight and flight thing. And it's like, you really cannot in that moment do better. You can breathe and you can be aware of your breathing. You can do that. You can always do that. But other than that, it's like to be kind to ourselves that sometimes we really physiologically cannot really. And so to find partners, which in my multiple partners, one of them probably, but there's something about, you know, being in the presence of someone who can, who can be with you, giving you the benefit of the doubt, you know, not assume that what you're doing is to hurt, not assume that it's to be wrong, you know, none of that. It's, it's really

because that's the only way I can handle it right now. And there was one thing when you said earlier that you walk out of the room, I was smiling because a friend of mine who works, John Gray, you probably know him, the Venus, you know, and Mars conversation. He says that when a man walks out of the room, let him walk out of the room. But when a woman walks out of the room, it's smart to go after her because that provides the safety and that provides, you know, and can potentially, you know, bring us back into something more vulnerable. When if a man walks out, I mean, I don't know, maybe we can ask the men in the room. But it's like, I've really, wow, when I heard that, it was like looking back at all my relationships and all these moments. Like, I was like, no, I want to talk now. It's like, no, I really need a break.

And it's like, no, now. And it's like, all of a sudden, he's yelling at me. Why are you yelling? Because I told you I had to go take care of myself. But that goes back to the physiological and biological response. Like there's so much science behind this now that in relationship, we're actually like enmeshed. Our nervous systems are enmeshed.

So let's say you and I are in partnership. If I'm feeling a certain way, it's causing a reaction in you because I am representative of your safety. And so we really get to honor each other's nervous systems in that process. And for instance, this, what you're bringing up is so my early relationship with Preston.

Whenever we used to fight, he's, you know, fight, flight, or freeze, he's flight. Like, he's like, I'm out, screw this, right? And I'm like, fight and appease, like, I'm in, right? Like, let's go, how do we fix this? How do we talk about this? So he'd walk away. So he'd walk away and I'm like,

ah, all my abandonment shit would come up. And it's like, where are you going? But we had to have that conversation and actually go, okay, in those moments, I get that he is like full flooded. Like he can't see clear. And if I'm trying to speak to him in that space, I am wasting every ounce of my energy and my words and everything. So I had to go, ah, okay. Him leaving is not representative of me not being good enough or him not wanting to fix this. This is actually him wanting to maintain the sanctity of our relationship. If anything, take care of you. That's it.

Exactly. And I had to have that conversation openly with him and create an agreement around that so that the little girl in me that has a fear of being abandoned and left could feel safe when he left. And so now it's literally like if he needs to leave, he goes, okay, I need to take a break. I love you. We're going to fix this and we're going to work on this. I just need to refill though. reassured in that moment before he left. And then I actually recognized that I needed the break too. So that's where like, I now take my time away and like breathe in and do all of that. So it's really powerful to have these conversations with your partners to understand like, what do each of your wounds need? And it's not that we're like, you know, petting the wounds, but we're taking care of our people. If we love them and we love our partners, just like you would a child, if you recognize their hurt, how can you honor their hurt, but also maintain your own dignity and identity in that

moment? So it's like so gray and so complicated and so juicy in love relationships. We came up with the thing with my ex. I was with him for seven years and we did well. I mean, you know, we did life. Life did us, whatever. All the things. But we used to, because we could see that sometimes we would fall into these wounds and we would both be five years old, you know. And you really cannot do anything productive when you have two toddlers, you know, that are hungry, angry, screaming at each other. But we came up with this really cute thing where I forget if it was, I think I was even and he was, what is the opposite of even? Odd. Odd.

He was odd, I was even. And so, you know, on the 3rd of April, you know, then it was him that had to be the adult. And it was me. So if we kind of locked ourselves into that thing, it would be like, it's the 3rd. All right, I'm going to drop mine then, you know, and take care of you, you know.

I'm going to take up this argument with you tomorrow. Well, it did kind of lead to a thing that was kind of funny. It was kind of like, okay, today is my day. All right, what grievance do I have? That's kind of lead to a thing that was kind of funny. It was kind of like, okay, today is my day. All right. What, what grievance do I have? That's kind of amazing though, because it puts the responsibility on, on the day of the week. It's like totally objective. Yes.

And it's like, no matter who, cause you're both in your shit at that moment. Exactly. Like whenever we fight, we're both in our shit, but it's like, okay, well today you get to be the responsible one and you get to be the one that's going to do the thing that we both know has to be done, but I don't feel like it today, but I have to do it. But it's my day.

Oh, I love that. And you know what? What was interesting too is I found that we both trained our nervous system because we would be at this like thing and it'd be like, he realizes his day or I realize it's my day or whatever. And it's like, we would be like, all right,

well, it's like, I have to do this. And it's like, and then you kind of learn to actually do it. Actually, maybe when people ask me why we broke up, because we did have a really beautiful story. It happened that two or three times he didn't respect his day. Agreement was broken. Agreement was broken at a very core. That was like the one thing, right? And that was like, I think that may have really broken my heart, actually.

Because that's your level of trust. Knowing that on odd days. Knowing that that day, you know, and then I would allow myself to go there and be like, nope. Oh, so I've got to be the responsible one today on your day. Okay. Even more resentment now. That was really, it's an interesting

integrity kind of question, right? Yeah, for sure. Yeah, integrity and safety and trust. I mean, I think as well, like, I mean, I've had this, not obviously in an intimate relationship recently, but like with a very close friend of ours and we, you know, trigger each other a lot. Like I guess similar to the ways that you would like in a relationship and we've had to come up against like each other's wounds

and then also communicating. Like I just remember recently and just like really not wanting to back down. Like I was so right and I was like, what you did was so wrong. And like, I'm so pissed and like, fuck this, you know? And, and then just having to stay in and stay. And even though like many times in that conversation, I was just like, we are not getting anywhere. Like this is going nowhere and I'm so mad right now and you're wrong, you know? And then just like eventually, yeah, like softening and softening. And then like at the end of it going okay like you know

what are like that uncovered new information you know and then it's like so moving forward from here what's our new commitments like what is it that you need from me yeah so that we don't run into this again like what is it how do we need to communicate and then do you choose that because you don't always have to choose what they need yeah right you know like you get to love them and it feels reasonable then you you know you do what you can to make them feel loved and seen because we are all different. And that's something as well. I think finding the people that are willing to give you what you need and also share love in a similar way.

I know for me in a past relationship, I love words of affirmation. I love physical touch. I love thoughtful things. And for my previous relationship, that was just something that did not come naturally to him. It just didn't. And yes, people can be willing to learn and create that but it's like you know now I look through this filter of like okay I know that about me I know that's really important for me to feel loved to feel appreciated so why not look for someone who naturally is that

way at least one of the guys right yeah at least one of you please exactly yeah in the rotation um you know. But even just having that awareness of like, what is it that I need? Because we are all wired so differently. And some things just come, like you said, the nervous system more naturally to others. And however you feel nurtured, making that an intention to try to find people that nurture in that same way. And also know what nurtures them. Yeah. I remember in my marriage, actually, which was before this previous relationship. And one day there was something that kind of didn't work well and we couldn't fix it.

And so we decided to go to therapy together. And the guy was kind of like, so when you're not feeling well, what do you need? And, you know, my ex was kind of like, like, he didn't know. He really didn't know. And then said to him, what do you think she needs when she's not well? And he was like, and nobody really knew. We didn't know what we needed when comes the time. Why are we having problems?

No, but I mean, I think it's like, I mean, I'm pretty sure if you, I mean, obviously this is a group of very conscious women, you know, but I'm pretty sure that if you ask a lot of people, what does your person really need? They wouldn't know. I'm not sure that they would know about themselves either, by the way. A hundred percent. I think it's a pretty core, you know, because if we don't know, like, I'm not meaning to, you know, trip you. I'm really trying, but I don't know that your thing is having a cup on the table and then you feel good. I can't know though.

And that's true. Like I legit have this belief that keeps getting solidified that I think we're all kind of incompatible because we're all just so different and we all grow up with like different realities and different parenting dynamics and different beliefs about the world and culture. compatible because we're all just so different and we all grow up with like different realities and different parenting dynamics and different beliefs about the world and culture. So many things make us so different. And like to be like, oh, I'm more compatible with that person than that person almost seems like bullshit because it's like anybody you're in a relationship with, even if it's not romantic, you've got to figure out their world. And even us, I would say that our worlds are more similar. Like we have a similar view of the world. Yes. Right? And even us, like, I would say that our worlds are more similar.

Yeah. Like, we have a similar view of the world. We handle things in a similar way. But I still have to get to know your world in order to relate to you. Right. And so then it becomes less about compatibility and more about, like, am I committed to understanding your world? But the other thing, sorry, Natalie, go.

No, I was going to, you go. Well, I was just, as you were talking, I was saying also, like if you slice me in half right now and I slice you and we slice, you know, someone that's a different color and a different height, whatever, it's like we would find more things that are similar than not. And it's like somehow the way we operate may be, you know, a bit different. But at the end of the day, it's like your heart is beating. Yeah. You're breathing. So we're human. Great. We've got that. We've got that down. And also your intention. It's like if you're with a partner, you know, that has an intention of being more aware of contributing something beautiful to the world or whatever. That becomes more relevant than how do you, you know, take the toothpaste out of the thing.

I actually have a thing around toothpaste. Do you? I do. What is it? It's just this weird, like this weird thing, like when somebody squeezes it from the top. Right. I do that. You just wasted

the whole time. Mike's like, do you agree with me or do you think it's weird? You agree with me. You two should share. It's a details thing. That's a detail person thing.

We should share toothpaste together. I'm just more of like a jump on in and do it thing. Were you going to say something? I was just, I'm really keen to ask. We're talking so much about relationships

but both of you have children and I would love to kind of ask how did that change things for you because I mean I have little brothers and sisters and I have a puppy so I know it's close it's close the first thing is I mean you need that patience and sometimes I'm like whoa am I even patient enough to be a parent like there's all of these things and and both of you are badass business women and you're also really leaning into all different relationships and everything. And then with the layer of children on top, like how do you, like how, how do you navigate that and what does it

teach you? Well, mine is 24, so I'm kind of out of the woods. She handles herself and she lives in New York, so that's easy. I mean, I know yours is much younger and you're more in the, you know, you're in the grid of it. She taught me everything I know that interests me because if nothing else, by the job of raising her, I really had to raise myself. And I know it's pretty words and lots of people kind of have the concept, but really, truly, I would find myself in exchange with her. And I remember once with being with her, she was maybe four. What is yours?

A year. A year. You have a minute. I'm like really in it. She was three or four and we went to the store and she really wanted to carry this bag, you know. And, you know, at that age, it's kind of like, okay, let's start to give her choices and feel like she has autonomy, you know. So, yes, you can carry the bag. Of course, she had the bag with the eggs and the milk and, you know, not the best bag, but she really wanted to carry that bag. And we walk out of the store, you know, and of course she drops the bag because she's little and she

doesn't have that much strength. And so we got in and it's like, and all of a sudden there's this like crazy mess on the ground. Plus the fact that I have to go back in the store and buy eggs again and milk and all that. And I found myself and she was like, you know, petrified and kind of like waiting to see, you know, what my reaction was going to be. And I remember pausing and being like, this is such a teaching moment. Like if I can use it, this is so beautiful. And I sat on the ground and I said, can you see how the milk is mixing with the eggs and how river that is and how beautiful that is and this whole thing? And I was like, what's the point?

It's like she dropped the eggs. Like what am I going to do? Like resent her that now the eggs are on the ground. But what was really beautiful is when we went back to the store, she handed me the bag and she was like, maybe today you carry the bag. I was like, all right. You know, that to me is much more interesting than like making my point. You know, what we were saying for adults, it's like I didn't want to treat her, you know, like someone that I don't. Did she mean to drop the bag?

You know, no. Did she insist on getting the bag? Yes. But then somehow, how do we? There's actually an exhibit. Sorry, I don't mean to. There's an exhibit that's going to start at the Hammer Museum in LA. Yes. Did I tell you about that? No, but a friend just sent this to me. The butterflies? Yes.

Okay. So it's basically, they're trying to find ways, visual ways to help children to develop character and develop their own values by doing these exhibits, right? So like, instead of doing like an Instagram, you know, pause next to the whatever, this is more about, you know, letting the children. So one of the rooms, which it's actually similar to this, there's screens everywhere around the room in that particular one exhibit. And the children walk in and on the screens,

there are butterflies, bunches of butterflies, flying, flying, flying butterflies, millions of them. And when the kids, I don't know what technology they developed to do that, but when the kids are louder, the butterflies go away. And so it takes very, very little time for them to realize that when they get quieter, the butterflies all come back. And then one will be loud and the other one will be like, shh, we have to bring the butterflies. Consequences.

But not consequences from a punishing place. No, no, no. From every choice. But just like whatever you do, you know, will have an effect. And without it being, it was really, really beautiful. And then a friend of mine was telling that story to a friend of hers because I told her. And the kid was there and heard, four-year-old, whatever. And then later on, they were walking around the city and there were butterflies. I don't know if you guys saw in Mexico.

There's butterflies everywhere in LA, right? So apparently the kid was like walking down the street and at some point the butterflies were fluttering. And he kind of looked to his mom and he was like, shh, the butterflies don't go away. He didn't even see it. He just heard of the story of the butterflies. I love that. I love that. Yeah. Honestly, there's so many things and I'm like just fresh in, I'm a year in, but I feel like I'm a totally changed human being. I think motherhood has been the absolute best thing that could have ever happened to me. I loved my life before. I thought I was pretty awesome before, but I feel like I am becoming more and more, I guess, closer to my most authentic expression because I have an example of what that is. And my son is so authentically himself and so

expressed and there's no like domestication in him yet. And I'm loving seeing what that looks like. Because I feel like that's kind of been my journey that I've been really fiending for most of my life is like finding that original self. And he's so his original self. And so he continues to just show me and give me permission to go back to that version of me. I'm learning patience. I'm learning. My curiosity has been sparked in just such new and beautiful ways. And honestly, my heart has never experienced more joy than I feel when I'm with

him. I mean, you even know, she's like, he smiles at me and my whole self just like, it's so good. I sound ridiculous, but it's just the best. And I feel like you've also like really widened out your perspectives around things like you've really made time for you know like you've always been super creative and driven and creating things but now it's like you in this last at least in the last like six months I feel like it's like you've really sort of softened into just like opening up and like experiencing new things and more things and just there's like a more of a depth I think to like what yeah well because I feel like I've almost got the opportunity to recreate myself within

this new identity, right? Like the minute I gave birth, I'm like, whoa, I am literally a different person. Like it's like this rite of passage that happened for me. It's like I stepped over the threshold and now here I am. And who do I want to be in this moment? And it felt really empowering to get to decide and get to create from this new perspective with new love in my life and just so many things. So yeah, absolutely. So the question you asked about patience, which is, I guess, a lot of mothers I know,

pre-being mothers, I know, like pregnant women, they'll be like, well, I have the patience. And it's like, well, do you have the patience now? Like when something matters to you and do you have it? And if you don't have it, can you build more? It's like, it's almost like we think when once this thing is put in our hands, we're not going to be ourselves. You are going to be kind. You're going to be smart. You're going to fuck up.

You're going to, it's like everything you do now, you do then. It's just, it's one more dynamic that, you know, is, but it's not like you're going to lose your personality or lose you in the process. Yeah. And think about it too, because you're super patient with your business.

And like, even like you said, hiring, in another conversation we had, you said hiring one of your main people, you took time because you knew it was important to have the right person. And that same thing is going to be critical, you know, when you have a child. It's like those traits just kind of transfer over different ways. Earlier today, you said every time I'm uncomfortable, I win. So. Yeah. I think you're gonna be good. Yeah, it's just such an interesting conversation. I know, for me, it's, it's almost terrifying. It's this, oh, God, I'm stretched now, already, and there's so much going on. So like, what is it like when I went? Well, when I even added a

puppy into the mix? I was like, what is this? So then what is it like when you add a child into the mix? But you did it, right? Did you let the puppy die of thirst and hunger? She even has maintained a plant that we all made at this plant party. And the plant is still alive. It's alive and I have two more plants. I just want to give you credit for that. You can be plants, you can be puppies.

Creating and supporting life. One step at a time, girl. Yeah, keep adding the layers. I just think it's, yeah, it's something that I think about and I'm like oh like I okay I think about how I need to make space for it and things won't be the same and I'm sewing whenever I'm around someone that has children because it's something that I want in a few years time like how do you do this and what about this because I'm so curious about okay how I'm such a planner I'm like how do I plan to make this work you don't you don't I was gonna

say throw every plan you show up that's one thing because I'm a planner planner. I'm like, how do I plan to make this work? You don't. You don't. I was going to say, throw every plan to the wayside. That's one thing, because I'm a planner too. And in very untrue Virgo fashion, I read no books about pregnancy or childbirth. I didn't. Those were cheats. Yeah, like legit. I was just like, I'm going to trust my body and see how that goes. It knows.

And I was like, I am so smart in my body. My body knows what it's doing. And sure enough, like it also helped me not have all the other stories about pregnancy and like what I'm supposed to feel at this time and at this week. And I just was like, well, here's what I'm experiencing right now.

And it allowed me to be so present. And that philosophy has really helped even with my son. Like people are like, oh, have you read this parenting book about this particular age? Is he doing this? And I was like, my son is exactly where he needs to be as far as his development goes because I can feel it. And like, he's on track and he's perfect exactly where he

is. And I'm not trying to force him into some standard that's written in a book. And honestly, like throwing plants to the wayside has been the biggest gift for me. And by the way, that's good, not just for kids. To do life where you're really present and you're listening and you're responding, all that stuff. And you'd work on yourself so that you're not depleted. I remember when my daughter was maybe again four or whatever it was, and she was drumming in these pots. She took all the pots out of the closet and she was drumming her head off. And I was like, oh my God. And I sat with her and I'm drumming. Well, the next day I'm having a shitty day. I don't know what happened. And I was stressed and I didn't sleep well. And at the time I was still eating sugar, which I now know is a major allergy for me. And

so I was, you know, whatever it was the next day. And it's like, all of a sudden she's now banging and she's looking at me like, are we banging? And I was like, get the hell out of here. I don't want to bang. This poor kid was like, wait, but we banged yesterday. It was so fun yesterday, remember? And to me, that's what it is. It's like, can I be with myself in a loving space? And the whole timing out, I don't know if you time out. I apologize if you do.

But it's like you time yourself out because, honestly, the kid is doing exactly what he was doing yesterday, and yesterday was fun. So if I'm responding not well or reacting, actually, in this case, not well, I get to get out. And I remember when she was little, I'd say, like, okay, you're safe. It's like yoga mats. I'm going to go and like take a minute because right now I really, I don't like the way I'm being your mother. So I'm going to go shower my, you know, psyche. So it's so important. And I think that's like in life in general, we could all use a bit more of that, like really giving ourselves permission to be present and stop thinking that it's got to be a particular way. Because again, I think that's the punishment circling all the way back to the beginning of this conversation. When we have some like paradigm of what our life should look like,

or what we should be as women, or how we should be showing up. It's like, we're killing ourselves to try and be this idea that truthfully, I don't even think really exists because we're constantly changing moment to moment. And we just get to be present to what's alive for us in that time. I'd love to use that moment and this, what you just said. It's like, I really want to commit to being, I mean, I know how I show up for my friends. And I know the famous, you know, like if you treated your friends like you treat yourself, you'd be very alone. And it's like, I'm done. I'm done. I'm done with that part of the conversation. I do my best. I know I do my best. I can always do better. Great. I'm done with that part of the conversation I do my best I know I do my best I can always do better great I'm done with the

beating yourself up crucifying I'm done yeah right now just done over I love that I'm gonna second that one yeah I'm gonna throw a thirds on that one Natalie you're on your own I'm here pressuring you to get rid of your bully you should be where we're at about not giving a fuck of where you should be

pressuring you into being something you're not in this moment. And if you're not, you should not judge yourself. Yeah. And it's so true, right? And I see this show up in lots of different places. But for me, business, especially like when I got into business, I mean, I was so oblivious to what I was like, how I was meant to do things. And I was just kind of locked in my room with me and my laptop. And I grew my whole business without,

you know, really much mentorship or coach or anything like that. I didn't even know what existed. And I survived. And not only the way you'll survive motherhood. Yeah, you thrive. Exactly. I thrived and I did it my way.

And I love when you said all of that because within us, there's no right way to do anything right and whenever you know if I ever give anyone some advice I say listen this worked for me I mean yeah I don't know if it's gonna work for you like we're all so different yeah and it's and it's nice to be able to accept that and you don't really always need the help of you know books or anyone else you just need to do what's good for you and yeah you know in this moment it might not be what everyone else would do but that's okay yeah that's like taking everything

that we say and it's like take what resonates and leave the rest like you're always gonna know what's best for you you know yeah well and I think that's something that a lot of us get to really like let that land because I think we're in this age of seeking out the gurus and seeking out the people who can tell us how to live our best life and do all the things. And there's so much beauty and insight to that. And there are a lot of amazing people who have amazing inspirations and insights to support us. But truthfully, the best guru we can ever come to is ourself. But I think most people, that's like their last resort. It's like, well, I'll go to you first. You tell me what to do. You tell me what to do. And then maybe I'll sit in silence or sit and be

with my own truth. You know, I think that's something that a lot of us could use more of. Definitely. And I don't think there's anything wrong at all with like seeking the inspiration and the support and the, you know, the ideas because that can spark things and inspire things. But then just still coming back to that place of trust, you know, because I think if we can cultivate an internal conversation and situation of just deep trust of self, like then we can, we always have an anchor point that we can navigate through things, you know, and just really that's that real core, I'm okay, I'm enough.

I can trust that I can make the right decisions. I trust that I can survive this. I trust that I'll be a good mom. I trust that I'll, you know, X'm okay, I'm enough, I can trust that I can make the right decisions, I trust that I can survive this, I trust that I'll be a good mom, I trust that I'll, you know, X, Y, and Z. Then with that, you can do anything. You said Zed. Yeah, Zed. Instead of Z. I say Zed in French.

You say Zed? We say Zed in French. You say Zed. I say Zed. I'm the only one that technically says Zed. Technically you say Zed. We've outnumbered the, yeah, we've got a couple of other Americans at the table here,. We've outnumbered the, we've got a couple of other Americans at the table here,

but we've outnumbered the Americans today with our multicultural status. I love this international table. Right? This is really, without even planning it. I know, it's so good. All right, so final thoughts. I mean, we've kind of like covered a lot of ground here,

which has been beautiful and so grateful for all of your insights and shares. Thank you for having us. Yeah. No, this is amazing. Like love this collection of amazing women. What are some like final thoughts that any of you want to leave with our listeners or viewers who might have tuned in? I was struck by when we were talking to not bring up this idea, we kind of did bring it up, but there's this really, this word I've been cherishing a lot lately,

which is this really notion of self-love, which is the very act of, and we mentioned, you know, what that looks like and we kind of tiptoed around it. But I feel like I've really, I've actually learned what that means. And I've learned it through,

because I know how to love you and I know how to love you, you know? And I even know how to love someone I don't know. There's a need. I don't need to know much about you. And to really apply this incredibly beautiful ability to myself has been just really softening and beautiful for me. So anyone who can just raise their level of self-love

is in a good place, I think. I'd love to just really quickly dissect this a little bit because I think I totally love and hear that and think that's so beautiful. And also I'd love to dissect even what self-love means to all of each of you guys, because I think that self-love is one of those Instagrammable concepts right now that means many different things. And a lot of the times it doesn't mean a lot and people are saying self-love and it's like, okay, what does it actually mean?

Like, what does self-love truly mean and feel like to each of you guys separately? I think for me what I've come to know self-love as is acknowledging all the parts of myself that I'm getting to know and loving those parts. Even if those parts aren't pretty, even if those parts aren't Instagrammable, even if those parts scare me a little bit. Really embracing all aspects of myself, the shadow, the light, the crazy, the parts that don't make sense. And really like welcoming all of her in, all of me in and hugging that and going like, yes, all is welcomed here. And I see you and I appreciate you and I'm excited to be your student because I do believe all those parts have something to teach me. Yeah.

Yeah. Beautiful. And so if it's yours, the bully, do you want to add something? I mean, no, I spoke of it. As you were speaking, it was also, to me, slow down has a lot to do with that because it's really hard to be in a space of self-love when I'm just like go, go, go and go and go and sometimes I hear myself talk

and I'm smart and I'm listening and it's great and my poor heart feels like I just shot it you know so slow down I think is kind of my I love that, that definitely resonates yeah same for me I think it's similar.

It's just honoring exactly who I am and just having enough confidence in myself to say what I need and to execute on what I need and not being apologetic about it. Yeah, I love that. What about you, Anne? For me, I feel like it's, yeah I mean similar echoing definitely echoing the slowing down I think it's like an acknowledgement of you know what I need like if I need a rest if I need to take a bath if I need to see friends if I need to just turn off my phone like it's just really just acknowledging whatever it is that I need and knowing that in honoring that choice that that is the perfect thing for me to do. Like not having an expectation of myself to do something else

or be something else in any moment and just allowing that to be enough. I love that. So many like juicy little tidbits to take away there. All that juice. All that juice. All that juice. All that self-love. All right.

We're throwing to Natalie for our amazing exit. I'm going to just throw the clothes. We couldn't end it on the last one. Natalie's got the best clothes ever. I feel like I've been given the job of being the clothes. You definitely have. Yeah, we've allocated clothing to Nat. Well, I just want to say a massive thank you for being here.

Thank you. This really has just been such an amazing conversation. And as always, I'm just so glad that we brought our full selves and talked about the places that we're at right now, not the places that we've perhaps been I think that's really powerful so for anyone listening um you know please do share whatever your biggest takeaway has been maybe something that you're going to take on board and action please tag us all and allow us to feel into that and and stalk you a little bit and share it that would be amazing but yes and thanks for sharing your time with us yeah thanks for jumping on with us team thank you bye if you loved this episode please subscribe and be sure to leave us

a review we want to hear what you enjoyed what your main takeaways were and also really want to know who you want to see on the show and speaking of reviews i've also got a little something on my sleeve for you so i want to send you a copy of the boss babe 25 this is a brand new resource that we've created and trust me you are going to love it so the boss babe 25 is the 25 essential resources you need for personal and professional growth seriously this little resource is like a little boss babe holy grail you are going to love it It covers everything from must-have products, our favorite books, rituals that we do daily, and little hacks to help you grow. So if you want a copy, it's really easy. Just leave us a review, screenshot that review, and email it to podcast at bossbabe.com. That is podcast at bossbabe.com. And we'll send you a free copy over within 24 hours we love bringing you experts and interviews from other successful business owners so they can talk

about their experiences and share information tips and what has worked for them however remember that the opinions or advice of our guests and as the hosts should not be taken as personal actionable advice and is given as general information and education only please always remember to consult a qualified professional before implementing any medical financial legal or other business advice to ensure it will work for you or your business boss babe is not responsible nor liable for your decision to implement anything you hear on the podcast please listen and act responsibly the opinions of our guests do not represent the opinions or views of boss babe daniel cante or natalie ennis personally and are meant as information and general education only