the bossbabe podcast - 263. Product Business? Get Onto The Shelves of Major Retailers with Bea Dixon from Honey Pot

Episode Date: December 6, 2022

Danielle is joined by the founder of Honey Pot, Bea Dixon, back for her second round on the bossbabe podcast – this time to dive into the exact path she took to get (+ keep!) her products on major retailer’s shelves + the lessons she learned along the way to a multi-million dollar business.   We talk about how to tell if your idea is a good one, the power of community + inclusive messaging and what it really means to go all in on your business. Bea Dixon is as real and open as it gets. If you’re thinking about launching a product-based business, or want to take yours to the next level, this is the podcast for you. Highlights: Bea reveals what they DON’T teach you in school about entrepreneurship. Get in front of the buyers of Walmart – without even having a broker! Community first. Why Honey Pot’s #1 priority is helping people break through the shame and taboos surrounding vaginas. Links: The Honey Pot Co. — For humans with vaginas. Listen to Bea in bossbabe episode 96 — From My Kitchen to Whole Foods: How I Built a Multi-Million Dollar Feminine Hygiene Company Follow: Instagram: @iambeadixon Instagram: @thehoneypotco bossbabe: @bossbabe.inc Danielle Canty: @daniellecanty

Don't act like you know the answer, because you don't have to know. You need to know your business, and you need to know your numbers. You need to know your problem, you need to know your solution, and you don't need to act like you know when you don't. A boss babe is unapologetically ambitious and paves the way for herself and other women to rise, keep going, and fighting on. She is on a mission to be her best self in all areas. It's just believing in yourself, confidently stepping outside her comfort zone to create her own version of success. Hello and welcome to the Boss Babe podcast, the place where we share with you the

real behind the scenes of building successful businesses, achieving peak performance and learning how to balance it all. I'm Dania Ky, Boss Babe co-founder and your host for today's episode. You guys know by now that I like to keep things real on the podcast. And if I'm going to have a founder on of a multi-million dollar company like Honeypot, you better believe I'm going to be asking all the nitty gritty questions. So keep listening if you want to know if your business idea is a good idea, or if you want to know the exact way to get your product into retail, or why building a community right now is the number one thing that you should be focusing on, even as a product-based business. We're talking about how to define your voice as a brand and

how to get in front of the buyers of Walmart without even having a broker. So if you want the answers to these questions, let me promise you this podcast is going to be a game changer for you and your business. So keep listening. But before we dive in, I just want to give all of you a little bit of background on Bia Dixon because she is phenomenal. We've actually had her on the podcast before. This is the second time that she came on. So you can find that if you just search as well. That first episode, she really spoke a little bit more about her story and how, you know, one night she had an ancestor give her the ingredients to solve her bacterial vaginosis. And eight months later, Honeypot was born. So that is an amazing story. But this story,

we actually really got into the build and how she has been able to build a multi-million dollar business since 2014. And she's been recognized by Goldman Sachs as one of the 100 most intriguing entrepreneurs of 2021. She's been described as Forbes top 100 female founders and one of Inc. Magazine's top 100 women entrepreneurs. Her company is absolutely amazing and she does not hold back on advice in this podcast. Let me just say that. There was no gatekeeping whatsoever. She was giving you all the insights, all the lessons, all the things that she's applied

to grow Honeypot over the last decade. I know you're going to be absolutely love it. And when you do, please tag myself at Danielle Canty, tag outbossbeef.inc and tag Bea. You're going to learn about her. She's going to be phenomenal. All of our handles are also in the description. Anyway, let's dive in. So I really take great pride in this podcast being really actionable and talking about the things that most people don't talk about when building a business. There's so many ups, there's some downs, there's twists, there's turns, there's pretty much all the things. And this is the second time that you've been on the podcast. Thank you, by the way. Well, you were such an amazing guest last time. So it's such an honor to have you back. And last time we spoke about how you came up with the idea of Honeypot and

the dream. And I really want to encourage people if they've not already listened to go back and listen to that one. But today I want to talk a little bit more about the actionable side of it. The fact that yes, you have this dream to create this product to help women, but how did you really know it was a good idea? Because I feel like lots of people are listening like, oh, I have an idea. But then they stop themselves actually taking action because they panic about whether it is. So I'd love to kind of start there. And what was that initial early journey like for you deciding, yes, this is where I should put time, effort, and money into?

Hilarious because I didn't really know. And to be honest, I still don't. I think that when you come into the world of being out on your own, of being in business or wanting to make a product or wanting to provide a service or whatever it is that you're trying to do, right? I think you mostly have to believe in the ability of yourself and also believe in the ability of your faith in what you're doing and your belief behind what you're doing. Because I just knew that whether it was me or 10 other humans that had vaginas or a million or 10 million, I just knew that I wanted to help to contribute to somebody's life and hopefully our products. And at that time, when we first got started, our washes would actually be able

to help them the same way that they helped me. So that was my goal in the beginning. Did you do market research at any point where you're like, I love this? I was pulling a face. No fucking way. There was no money to do market research. There was no money to do clinical studies. There was no money to do anything. Like we just, the clinical research was my the last couple of years, that we've been able to invest in research and data and big science testing. And before, our products were clinically tested, but they weren't as clinically tested as they are now. Does that make sense?

Yeah, for sure. Because there's levels of clinical testing. And we didn't have the money to go to understand the data of our business, to understand the data that's happening at the POS, the point of sale systems, right? We didn't have money to understand how to do the data on our customers and what they like and what they want. All those things cost a lot of money. I love that we're talking about this because I think this is like really what sets entrepreneurs apart. It's the ones that believe in their idea so much that they literally just run full steam ahead and notice the signs to like help guide them which route they take. What were some of those signs that you look for that you

were on the right track? And I'm talking more like, okay, well, when I was mentioning it to friends or I do sit and I had those results, or I was noticing when I was going down to Target or Walmart that there really wasn't these options as well. Were there any clues or signs that you were leveraging? I was like, I think I'm on the right track, even though I haven't been able to test this or do market research. Like, cause I feel like a lot of women have these ideas, but they don't really know how to put, well, they do know how to put one foot in front of another, but they're not doing it because they're paralyzed. In business, yeah. Yeah. In business, it's hard to know how to put one foot in front of the other, right? Like starting a business today is much different than it was starting a business in 2012, 2013, 2014.

Festivals were a huge thing. Exhibitions, conventions, hair shows. We're just now starting to get back to that. I can't imagine starting a business in the last couple of years, to be honest, right? With all the changes that have happened at Instagram and with the Apple system. Exactly. All those things have affected how to grow your business, how to grow the humans that follow you on those channels, right? All of those things have made it more expensive to do business because now you almost have to have an influencer network. You understand what I'm saying? So the levels of it are crazy, but I think that

you have to run full steam ahead. I think that you have to get comfortable that you're not in control. I think that you have to get comfortable that you don't know what's going to be around the corner. I think that you have to treat your business like one of your religions. And that may sound sacrilegious, but I truly believe that. The things that we need to survive, we need food, we need water, we need air, we need our earth, right? We need fire to heat our food, to stay warm. These are all the things. I got a little esoteric on you, but having a business or having a job is essential because you have to survive on this planet. And so I think that it's very, very, very important to be the human that just goes after it.

I think what's happening nowadays is everybody is learning themselves to death. They're going to every talk and every panel and every, they're getting on every mentor network and they're just trying to learn, learn, learn, learn, learn, learn, learn. And that's not how you learn. 100%. I know so many people who have a business degree. That doesn't mean their business degree did serve them, right? There was things that they learned in school that served them, right? There are relationships that you build at school that serve you. There are sororities and fraternities that serve you. There are Ivy League schools that serve you. All you have to say is that you went there, right? All of that shit can serve you. But

the reality is, is that there's a lot of shit about being an entrepreneur that nobody can teach you. Nobody can teach you how to be a hustler. Nobody can teach you how to be, how to have the tenacity and the grit and all the things. And these are all words that everybody throws out all the time. But like the real shit, like the real shit, nobody, that shit isn't taught in a school. You know what I mean? Nobody can teach you how to grind.

Nobody can teach you how to fucking have a job and a side hustle and a company. Nobody can teach you how to grind. Nobody can teach you how to fucking have a job and a side hustle and a company. Nobody can teach you how to like, there's humans out there with vaginas that strip during the day, do their business at night, go to school. Do you understand what I'm saying? I used to have a cleaning business, right? To this day, if I had to get down and clean a fucking toilet, you think I wouldn't if it means that I have to survive, but nobody could teach me that. You understand what I'm saying? And so I think that it's really important to understand that the grind is essential. The being okay with having nothing for a while is essential. The understanding that being in business

is not just to be popping off on fucking Instagram because this shit is not cute. It's not, right? The understanding that you may make money, but that has to go right back into your business. So until you're making multiple tens of millions of dollars, that's when you can actually start to think about having a salary that can even resemble something that pays you more than five figures a year. Seriously.

No. And I think that's really important for us to talk about because, you know, having a business is truly incredible and what it can create for your life, generations, legacy, impact, all of these things. And that there's this other side to a business, which is about sacrifice. It's about rolling your sleeves up. It's about no job is ever freaking beneath you. And just before we jumped on recording, we were also talking about how your business really has to be your number one priority. And I was just saying, I interviewed Lewis Howes and we were talking about him saying on there that to his girlfriend, you will never be my number one priority. First of all, it's my health and spiritual health, mental health, physical health. Second of all,

it's my calling. He was really aligning with his business and having his voice in his podcast. Then it's you. And I was like, it was actually a really good conversation because I related to that a lot to that. And I think about, and then we were chatting about, I think I put my business ahead of all of those things. I think I even put it ahead of my physical and mental health at times, which I don't think is the best thing you do. But I think sometimes they argue, they fight over first place.

But I also recognize that I think if they hadn't fought over first place, if I'd put the gym first at times, or I'd put a full eight hours sleep at first at times, I don't think I would be here. Same. So I don't, that's why I don't think that it's a bad thing or a good thing. I think that it's just the thing that is. It's not bad or good if sometimes your business is your master before everything else. I think that it's essential. It needs you. It's like a newborn baby. I mean, not even just a newborn. I mean, children need their parents. They need you to eat. They need you to provide them a home.

They need constant love. They need attention. They need freedom right they need to have discipline they need to understand that when they put their hand and sometimes the best way to understand is to burn yourself so they know but a business is the same way right you it requires every single thing that you could ever you have to give it all of you, you know? And that's why I'm saying like, it's not for the faint at heart. If you really want to do business, right? Some people just want to have a lifestyle company and that's cool. That's fine. But if you want something that's going to like feed generations of your family, that's a horse of another color. And that requires sometimes being your first and your second. And then your third may be yourself. And then your

fourth may be your partner. And then your fifth may be your family, right? But that's why a lot of times humans like us can be misunderstood. I remember my, not my, excuse me, the ex-husband telling me that my business was my husband. I remember that. And hence the fact that we're not together today. But the thing is, is that he was right. Because at that time, it had to be because it provides. But I also remember feeling bad that he had to tell me that. I remember that. But now in hindsight, I was in therapy with my partner, with my boyfriend. And I remember our therapist saying, am I right to say that your business is your first priority? And I thought about it and I was like, well, shit, yeah, it is. And I was grateful because James didn't even balk. He was just like, yeah. I actually think I'm really glad we're having this discussion because there's a lot that entrepreneurs go through, whether you're an established entrepreneur

or you're trying to get your business off the ground, which is a really freaking hard place to be as well when you're trying to find that traction. Keeping it off the ground is equally as hard. And that feeling of just like, oh my God, am I alone in this? So I hope anyone listening is like, oh, these are normal problems to have first and foremost. And also just coming back to that point, like people who can't honor the journey that you're on and can't be okay with the business coming first, I think ultimately, and whether that being like family or partners or friends, there is that decision that every entrepreneur I think needs

to make. And that is okay too. And you're not a bad person putting your business first. Like it doesn't make you any less caring of other things. It's just that you have a priority that you're really dedicated to. And also quite often when you've got that business on the ground, other families are depending on you, right? Absolutely. Sometimes the whole family can be depending on you. Let's go into a little bit more like you had this idea and you were, you know, a lot of grits getting honeypot off the ground, but you also didn't have a background in product, a background in manufacturing, a background in this, this and this. And so I'd love for you to share like how you went about that journey of learning. Because I think a big problem that we have right now is like you say, people trying to learn, learn, learn versus action, action, action, because we're scared to make mistakes or scared to fail at something. So I would love for you just to kind of share a little bit about how you attacked that, like how you went about getting this idea into fruition.

Google. I'm just going to Google this. Yeah. Google was my and our best friend. I remember we hadn't even started making wipes yet, but we were wholesaling through a company that made wipes. We had a company that made pads and we were just wholesaling their products. And the only thing we made was our feminine washes, but we literally made them in our kitchen, in a house and then in an office, right? That was still an apartment. But I remember when something just told me that we needed to start looking for manufacturers. So I did something that was probably a conflict of interest, but I went to the wipe company and was like, yo, who do you use to make your wipes? Because it doesn't make sense for us to buy them through you. And I didn't know what was the right way to go. And so I was like, can we just wholesale them? Like, can we come in under your agreement or something like that?

And then it can be your formula and we can put our name on it. Like, I knew that that was a thing, but I didn't know that that's what private labeling was. Like I didn't realize that. I didn't know any of the terminology. I was just guessing, you know, and they went and they did the work and they talked to the manufacturers and they came back with a price that was ridiculous, you know, but she was also like, that was her first time doing that you understand what I'm saying so

it wasn't like she knew something and she was trying to take advantage but if she was going to sell us something that she had to make some money on the sale and then somehow I realized or found out where she was getting a maid and and then we literally like we found a contact and then we started having a conversation. And then I remember when we got into Target, maybe like a year before, a year and a half before we got in. And I remember looking for like, after I learned some of the terminology, using that terminology and going to the Googles and like private label company that can make feminine washes. Like that's what I put in because I didn't know what to put in. And so it was literally just like trial and error. This is my biggest learning, I think, as an entrepreneur is realizing how much people don't

know and are just figuring it out, like asking questions. And there's been so many times like when we first started Boss Babe, my team would ask me something and I'm like look you're asking me but all I'm going to do is google it so why don't you just save time and google it yourself because I don't know like I don't know how to do this thing yet I'm like figuring out as we're going and I think that a lot of paralysis comes from people feeling like they have to have built the plane before they fly it versus like a really, like what's true about entrepreneurship is really you're building the plane as you're trying to fly. I need another wing on here. You're building the plane while you're trying to fly and you're admitting when you don't know.

Yes. There is no such thing as perfection when you're starting a company, running a company, building a company, scaling a company, doing anything within your company. It doesn't matter if your company makes a zillion dollars or a billion dollars, right? As you get more money and you get more sophisticated, then you get more data and understanding. But everything, a lot of times is really a hypothesis. I just want to say that, right? No, I agree. And so I think one of the biggest things that you can do for yourself as a founder is be okay that you don't know. Ask for help when you don't know.

If somebody says this happens all the time, Javonna's probably going to laugh because literally, literally, we could be in a meeting and somebody will be like, PQM or some shit like that. And I'm like, what does that mean? Don't say acronyms, man. Say what it means. Don't assume that everybody,

like POS, that means point of sale yourself early i stopped myself because because you know because i don't be knowing what acronym what the acronyms are right like and and people respect you when you're the person in the room because there's more than just you in the room that's being like what does that mean you know but people will respect you when you're pitching somebody, you're raising money. And the investor asks you a question. Don't act like you know the answer because you don't have to know. You need to know your business and you need to know your numbers. You need to know your problem. You need to know your solution and you need to know how you're going to scale that

thing, right? And how you're going to innovate it and all those. You need to know those things and you don't need to act like you know when you don't. It's so important. Do not look for perfection. Do not front. You can fake it till you make it with certain shit, but some things don't fake it till you make it. Just be like, yo, I don't know. But guess what? I'm going to go find out. I'm going to get that answer to that question and I'm going to come back to you and I'm going to send it to you in an email tonight. That's much more profound than you coming up with some shit and making yourself look stupid. Yeah, I agree.

And I think that, again, it's just lessons in no one has to be perfect to do this. It's all about just owning who you are and what you know, but also owning what you don't know and your weaknesses. And I think when you start owning your weaknesses and things you don't know, it also empowers you to go find out or to be better in that space. Like for so long, I hated telling people that I'm so bad at spelling. And I used to be so embarrassed if I got caught. Whereas now I'm owning it. It's so much more empowering. I'm like, yeah, if I'm catching spelling mistakes, we're all in trouble. And just having that peace of mind around it just allows you to like sell into the actual conversation at heart. Let's talk about investing though, because raising money is always

a really tricky thing to do. And knowing when you need to raise money, when you don't need to raise money, and even starting to have those conversations. And I know you took a loan out when you first started, but like, how did you even realize, okay, I need to get some money. I need this amount of money. Like, how do you know, even know how much money you need to get? Does everyone need to get money? Who's doing a product-based business? Like, I would just be really interested for you to share any wisdom that you've learned on this journey of things that you were like, okay, if I was to do this, I would do it. This is how I did it. But this is if I did it again, I would do it this way differently.

First of all, I would not do anything differently because tripping, falling on your face, the snot, the tears, the fucking blood, all of it is necessary to get you here. Seriously, all things are in order. All things, even if the most terrible shit happens, all things are in order. That's like my, I should get that shit tattooed on my forehead. Seriously. No, I agree. Because it's true. But we knew we needed money because we got invited to go to the No, I agree. one of the largest black hair shows in the United States, right? It happens twice a year. This happened to be the show that was the bigger of the two shows, right? But in order to get a booth there, maybe it's, I don't know, $2,500 or $3,500. You got to get your booth. You have to design your booth. So you got to buy cute things. We

use fruit and flowers and the ingredients that were in our products. You have to have a table. You have to have a banner. How much do all those things cost? Call a banner company, ask. These are very rudimentary things, but I'm happy that we're talking about it because not everybody realizes that this is a thing. Well, if you're going to go to a show where there's 10,000 people walking around or more over the span of three days, how much product do you need to have or how much can you afford to have? In our instance, all we could afford to have was like 600 bottles. Well, where do you find the bottles? We were using a company called Container and Packaging Supply. We use Uline for the little, the plastic. What's the thing that you put over top of it so you can cover the bottle so it doesn't open up?

Not the cap. I don't know. It's like a plastic wrap. And then the shrink wrap. You guys, Javonna's here. My wonderful, esteemed partner in business and crime and everything. And so you had to have that, right? We had to buy ingredients.

So we were buying ingredients from a company called Essential Wholesale, right? And literally, I just went on the Googles and I was like, I need to buy wholesale essential oils. Seriously. Love this. Right? And so, okay, how much do you need to make 600 bottles? Well, that's the math of how much water you need when you've built a formula, how much water you need, how much vinegar you need, how much garlic extract you need. That's the math in building a formula. I can't, this podcast isn't long enough for me to teach you how to do that, but- We can make it. 9 p.m. comes up. Right, right. But that was literally just math. And then figuring out based on each of the ingredients, how much was going in, that told

you if you needed, I don't know, 10 gallons of rose water or 10 gallons of regular water or whatever. I'm just using these things as easy numbers. And so that's literally doing the math on the website to figure out. And that's how we figured out how much we needed. It was literally just like arithmetic, just calling everybody, figuring it out, getting a quote, and it came up that we needed that much money in order to do what we needed to do. Thank God for my co-founder, Brother Simon. He, at that time, was a certified public accountant. His customers were humans that had high household incomes. And so, you know, because they had a private accountant.

And so he knew people. And so Troy Flowers was one of our first investors, along with Simon. They put some money together. And then we went and we bought all the things. And then we brought some friends and family together and we just made that shit happen. And it's beautiful because we sold all 600 of those bottles in a weekend. Wow. But that's how you do it.

You literally just add it up as you go and you figure out what your timeline is and who you're ordering from and who you got to get the booth from and what all the details and then you just make yourself a budget. It's simple. Let's take a quick pause to talk about my new favorite all in one platform, Kajabi. You know, I've been singing their praises lately because they have helped our business run so much smoother and with way less complexity, which I love. Not to mention our team couldn't be happier because now everything is in one place so it makes collecting data, creating pages, collecting payment, all the things so much simpler. One of our mottos at Boss Babe is simplify to amplify and Kajabi has really helped us do that this year. So of course I needed to share it here with you. It's the perfect time of year to do a bit of spring

cleaning in your business you know. Get rid of the complexity and instead really focus on getting organized and making things as smooth as possible. I definitely recommend Kajabi to all of my clients and students. So if you're listening and haven't checked out Kajabi yet, now is the perfect time to do so because they are offering Boss Babe listeners a 30-day free trial trial go to kajabi.com slash boss babe to claim your 30-day free trial that's kajabi.com slash boss babe i love that we're talking about this too because obviously now like building social media is like such a epic way to grow businesses but it's also not the only way and i'm really glad to like now as we're coming out the other side of covid like these expos are happening conferences are happening farmers markets are happening like all

these places right I think it's great to bring us back to this kind of like grassroots marketing strategies yes and having conversations directly with your customers to like figure out like maybe if you're innovating the next product or you're seeing farmers market one thing always sells out like how can you double down on that yeah and you can test like when you're making stuff in your kitchen you can take it to that farmers market which might be a lot cheaper to get that booth one off etc but it's not like hustle and grind that you kind of would speaking about like the beginning like don't be afraid to try these things yeah don't things you can try don't be afraid to try these things. There's so many different things you can try. Don't be afraid. And you actually mentioned something earlier

about when you're in the consumer package goods space, do you need to raise money right away? My answer to that is no, I don't think you need it, nor do I think you should. Now, if you have money, you're a person who has money, or you have access to an investor and you have an excellent idea, then yeah, then you should raise capital. But if you're making a body wash and a body butter and a face wash or whatever it is that you're making and you don't have any money, don't think that you just need to go out right away and raise some money. That's not the case. You actually need to make yourself a product. And if it's natural or plant based or plant derived, it's pretty easy to figure out how to do that. Making skincare is a lot like

cooking, right? And figuring it out and going to these expos and going to these festivals and going to these farmer's markets and actually making sure that you have something that people want. I believe that if you raise money, too much money, too quickly, what ends up happening is you don't know how to run your business

because you just throw money at shit. And that's not how you build a business. A business has to be, in my opinion, once again, it should be lean. And Simon is the architect of this. It should be lean. It should at some point be able to provide for itself. That takes a lot of time. Don't try to do that in the beginning. At some point, there should be a path to profitability, right? When you have problems, you and your team figure out how to solve them. Hopefully you can be proactive rather than being reactive. We're just now getting to a place of being proactive. That doesn't mean that it needed to take this long 10 years in to be a super,

super duper proactive business. That doesn't mean that we haven't been proactive with things, but literally we've been chasing our growth and that puts you in reactive behavior, which is a good thing, right? Because when you're chasing your growth, that means you're growing fast, which is dope. Thank you. But it's also really important to understand that you need to understand how to make a business. And a real business is not just top line growth. It's not. It's bottom and top. And it needs to make sense. And there needs to be a path to understanding how you're going to get to where you're going. And you need to understand what it is that you begin with the end in mind. These are all things that are very cliche because people talk about it all the time, but these are the tenets of good business. Understanding where you want to take it.

Do you want to raise money? Do you want to just be a lifestyle company? Do you not want to raise money? All this shit matters because a business is a lot like getting in a car and driving somewhere that you've never been. When I was on the way here, I took an Uber. I had to put the address into where I was going. I don't live here, so I don't know where to go. You understand what I'm saying? And a business is very much like that. There's so much about it that you don't know and that you don't understand and that you can't afford to know in the beginning. You know what I'm saying? And so I think that it's important to do a lot of the jobs at your business so you can have a respect for it. So you don't treat people like shit. It's important to eat a little shit in

your business. Actually to eat quite a lot of it, right? Because now you've got respect for what it feels like to fall on your face. Like I had a respect for what it felt like to go viral in a positive way. Now I have a divine respect for what it means to go viral in a fucking negative way. I thought that I respected my business, but now I respect it even more. And not even our business, but our customers, our people that we serve. You understand what I'm saying? All these things, going back to the beginning cannot be taught. There's no way you could know that some of this shit is going to happen. And you just have to be able to go with the flow. I believe in organic business growth. I believe in raising capital when it's time. And normally when it's time is when you've got a big fish in your hand.

I also think too, with the raising capital too soon, it gives you a false sense of security because that money will dry out. And I think why we're heading to with the economy now is going to be really interesting. A lot of people raised at really high valuations and now those valuations have dropped and they have not grown enough to support that old valuation. Now people are watching their money look a lot closer. We're going to see a lot of fire sales in businesses. We're going to see a lot of businesses completely, you know, going bankrupt and not doing business anymore. And I do, I think it gives you a false sense of belief and those war wounds help you

through when you are like, wait, this did not sell or or wait that post did not work or wait this email sales or whatever it was like it's not translating that's okay and you get to like retest because that's all part of the battle wounds we need to generate with regards to you know your journey over the last 10 years if you could say like four significant things that you saw were like key like lifts in your business that you created, what do you think they were? I'm saying four, like we can just like, you know, go backwards and forwards. I'm just wondering if there's like things that you're like, wow, that was such a significant thing that helped me grow. That was another significant tipping point that helped me grow. What would those be? I think that our first big significant point was like making sure that we

had a product that worked. So like we gave our product away for the first year and a half of our business. Love that. And Sai was just spending the money every month. And, you know, but it was important because we make a product for people's vulvas. Like, you can't just throw that out into the world. And then we didn't have the hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars that it takes to do a clinical study. You know what I'm saying? And so we just created our own clinical study. And literally it was just like, take this. And the only thing that I ask of you is to tell me if it's too strong, if it's too weak, if it's too whatever. And so literally I just kept journals

of like what people said and if they liked it and if they didn't. So you were just following up with them, like, hey, give me your email address or give me your text number or I know you, I'm going to stalk you until you tell me. Yeah. And then people would tell us. Like I found out that our products work for young girls because one woman used, every time she went to wash her baby in the shower, her baby would be like, mommy, I don't, and this is like a three-year-old girl, you know, and she'd be like, mommy, I don't, and this is like a three-year-old

girl, you know? And she'd be like, mommy, I don't want you to wash there because she was washing with a baby wash. Like, and we don't know that. We weren't, nobody said don't wash your baby's vulva with, nobody said be careful about putting your baby in a bathtub because it can throw their pH off. Like people don't talk about that, but that's how you have to wash a baby or just use water. Don't use anything. Like those aren't necessarily conversations that always happen. Right. And so that's how we found out. And then we created a wash. This was years ago for young girls. Right. It didn't turn out to be a skew that worked. I like hearing that too. Cause you're like, oh, we tried this? It didn't turn out to be a SKU that worked, right? I like hearing that too, because you're like, oh, we tried this, it didn't work. Okay,

we're still in business because we kept moving forward. Exactly. So I think us giving the product away and really trying to understand our product was huge. I think another place that we've seen success is growing an organic community. Okay, let's talk about that. Because I think I'm hearing that a couple of, from a few product-based businesses now, it's like, it's not enough just to have the product. You've got to build a community around it.

So you have to tell me more how you've done that intentionally and not intentionally, like how some of that might have just happened. I think when we first got started, the fact that we used to go to trade shows and hair shows and we would literally meet people in their face and talk to them and get to build with them. I think that that was huge. When we were coming up,

a lot of people were buying followers then. And I'm sure they still are. I'm not the best at the social media talk because I'm not very active, an active participant in it. I've been very lucky to have Linda, who's one of our co-founders and she really built our,

Linda really built our following in the beginning from nothing, you know, and all of us were working for free, but it was amazing. And she just wanted to just support. So we were very, very keen on not buying followers, even though sometimes it, you know, it was tempting because you knew if you had a bigger following, then it made you look, people would want to follow you more. So I think that that was really huge. I think that it's really important to have, especially in these it works, that it's a good price, that they can see themselves in it. That's why we say humans with vaginas. We don't say women and men. And we're very respectful as it relates to that because people want to be what they are and

who are we to tell them what they are. So I think that being true and being authentic is extremely important because, you know, we're coming out of the years of the diversity, equity and inclusion theater. I hate to say it, but we are. now that you're starting to see the brands that did it because they actually meant it or the brands that did it because they just wanted to check a box. And the thing is, is that these things always communicate. They always do. Even if you're trying to cover it up, it's going to come out. So authenticity is huge. And as it related to building our community, that's a huge part of it because who are you being authentic for? And knowing who you're serving, knowing your why, and really being rooted in that. I've always wanted Honeypot to be the most clinically scientifically tested feminine care, vaginal wellness brand. I've always wanted us to be able to do that. I've always wanted to invest

in organizations that we believed in. We've always wanted to be able to serve humans. We always talk about how we sell people vaginal products, but we give away the service of love, the service of dying to your shame, the service of helping people to like get over the taboos. I talk, I say vaginas a lot, you know, and people always laugh

about that shit, but that's, you know, and I'll laugh too. But at the end of it, that's not really a laughing matter. None of humanity would be here if it wasn't for vaginas. Might drop that one. Seriously. It's true. And penises, frankly. Yes. Right. And we should be more comfortable with these words. Right. And so I think that's another thing that's the third that's not true actually like the respect for the vagina the respect for just having that conversation respect how important is fucking respect when it comes to humans to respect the things that happen with

your body to respect when you're not okay to respect when you are to respect when you went to the doctor and you might have had some fun the night before and you go to the doctor and you fucking got gonorrhea now so what man just take the fucking medicine and be careful next time do you understand what i'm saying? Don't feel ashamed. The respect for the fact that you may have herpes. Okay. Like 90% of the planet does. They just don't know it. Right? If you get a cold sore when you get a cold, guess what? You got herpes. You understand what I'm saying? The respect for whether it happens on your mouth or your vagina, there is no difference. It's all the same shit. But we get so wrapped up in it because of all the stuff and all the shame and all the things that had to be packed on top of that. So now if you know that you're in that crew, in that clan of humans, which I am, I'm okay to say it, right? It's okay. All things in order. It's okay. You're going to be fine. Take care of yourself. Eat well. Take care of your mind. Take care of your nerves. These are the things, right? so it's like we don't have to be so ashamed we don't have to be so um

covered up we don't have everybody the thing that makes every human the same is that we're all dealing with our shit all of us are all of us are thinking about our health. All of us are like, oh shit, should I have said that? Right? All of us deal with shame. All of us have moments when we're up. All of us have moments when we're down. We all are going to be happy, sad. If any human goes out all day and you get back home,

your coochie is not going to smell like fucking flowers and sunshine. You go work out at the gym. If you have an odor, it's fine. So helping people to get through and not be so damn ashamed of themselves, I think that that's a huge part. It is probably the most important part about what we do because we serve at the pleasure of humanity. You understand? Yeah. And I think what's just really powerful about what you were saying is two ways to hear what you've just said. There's a way that you speak so passionately and with a message that I think so many people need to hear about that topic. And also when I'm listening, I'm like, that's also why you created such a huge brand because you just spoke with such freedom,

passion, authenticity about your company. And if people can't do that in theirs, they will never be successful in whatever they're passionate about in creating. And I think when you have something that you want to make a difference with and impact with, that message filters through in so many different capacities and isn't about the product anymore. It's about community. It's about a message. It's about freedom. It's about a, look, this is the shit that we've had to put up with and I'm saying no to this now. And just from my,

I was just hearing it and like, yes, as a woman, I'm listening to that and being like, oh my God, like that's so, so true. And isn't this amazing to talk about? And as a business woman, I was hearing it and being like, oh, this is how a company is also huge

because she actually stood for something different to what was already in the market. And she's not scared to talk about it and build a community and bring people together who also have that similar ethos or want to be part

of that conversation as well. Thank you. And that doesn't happen overnight. No. I'm in a 10-year relationship with Honeypot. The baby 10 years. We've been together for a decade. Yeah.

Whether it's my baby, whether it's my wife, my husband, my whatever you want to call it. You're number one. Right? I've been in a relationship with this thing, a real one, a proper one. It came from my vagina. It came from my grandmother that died when my mother was seven years old. Do you understand that? So this shit is for real. This is not a game. This is not just for us to fucking make some money. This isn't for us to just sell a business and make a billion fucking dollars. When that shit happens, it's because that's what has to happen.

There's so much that goes into this company. The responsibility, the humanity, the things that have to go into this. I just don't take it lightly. I don't. Seriously, it's one of my gods. Seriously. That doesn't mean that you have to be able to speak the way I speak or do what I do. You need to do you and what that means to you, right? Because it's also okay if you just want to make a shit ton of money and you know how to do that, right?

That's okay. You can do that. That's just not how I do it and how me and my team do it because I don't do shit anymore. There is no I in the honeypot. There is only we, right? But, you know, so there's many ways to skin the cat, but just understand it's got to be real and you got to be here for it and you got to be in it. And that's not a play thing. It's real. Some of the themes that I'm seeing through this conversation is obviously number one,

making it your priority and really getting down into the weeds of it and no job being beneath you. And two is the caring, like truly caring about what you're creating and the customers and the impact. And I also want to like just come back to something that you said earlier about raising and you went into target and these pieces and you had this north star right from the beginning so I think three years of not having a north star and you had the north star that you wanted to be in stores and you wanted to have this clinically proven product too that was helping people do you share a little bit about your journey into stores? Because I was reading about it and how you got into Walmart. And from what we're talking about in this podcast, there's so

much we're uncovering, like these little nuances to finding, asking these questions and private labeling, but also getting in stores was a really interesting journey for you. Can you share some of the things that you discovered and how people can even approach that? Yeah. So every year Walmart does something called an open call. I actually don't know if they're doing now because I haven't done it in years, but I'm pretty sure that they do. So they have a program called open call. And essentially that over a span of a few days, they, it's an invite in program. But if you can look up the open call program through Walmart and maybe get yourself on a list or, you know, put your information in about your company. Even if you do that five times and it doesn't happen, every time is worth it. Right. times and it doesn't happen, every time is worth it, right? And so literally you get invited to

the open call and you actually pitch a buyer. It's going to be the buyer that is for whatever it is that you do. So if you make body care, it'll be the body care buyer. If it's Fem High, it'll be the Fem High buyer. Food, it's food buyer, right? Because the way that retail, mass market retail works, once you get in is on a category review schedule. So what is our category review schedule is like in June, July area, right? So in June, July, typically under normal circumstances, that's when mostly all FemmHigh buyers are starting to meet with brands. And then they take the rest of the year to get their planogram set up. Okay.

And then the planogram sets up like in March or April, right? The planogram is like how things are set out in stores, right? Yes. So a planogram is when you go into a store and you look at your shelf, right? Tampons are going to be in a section. Pads are going to be in a section. Washes and wipes are going to be in one, right? Treatments are going to be in another. That's what a planogram is. It's real estate, right? And so that's under normal circumstances and you have a broker and you have all the things. But in this circumstance with open call, you don't have to have a broker. You can be a smaller brand,

right? Because they're typically talking to smaller brands because they want smaller brands, right? And so you go in, you meet with the buyer. And then if the buyer's interested, and then there's a day of programming talks and stuff like that. But if the buyer's interested in you, after you meet with the buyer, they give you a golden ticket. And the golden ticket means that you actually get to go into Bentonville, Arkansas during your category review and pitch the buyer to get your product on their shelf. It basically is moving your conversation along. And it's a brilliant program because it gives people access to something that they wouldn't have access to because under normal circumstances, you have to have a broker.

And a broker is a company that you go to that has a relationship with the retailer. See, retailers don't want to talk. They want to talk to brands, but there has to be a middleman that understands how to talk to a retailer because brands are like, yo, my shit is the best shit in the world. Meanwhile, they got 10 of those lined up, 20, right? Everybody's going to think their brand is the best thing in the world, right? And that doesn't mean that it's not, but that buyer cannot be talking to you every day about your product because they've got shit to do. There's like five people above them. They got a whole thing to design because they got to launch a whole new shelf in a year or six months. And so traditionally, you would hire a broker. And typically, brokers are kind of segmented. So you've got Target brokers that only pretty much work for Target. And literally, their corporate offices are right across the? Or that's their specialty. To name a few, MPG is an excellent one for Walmart. Moscow Group is an excellent one for Target. This is gold.

Sun, Portu, Portu Sunberg, I think it's called. I don't know. You can Google it and you'll find it is an excellent one for Target. Now, just because you go to that broker and tell them that you want to go into Target or Walmart, for example, that doesn't mean that your brand is ready for that, but they'll sit with you. They'll have a consultation with you and they'll talk to you about what it takes. And if it makes sense, then when that time comes, they'll help you to prepare to get ready to go on the shelf. But again, you don't really need to be talking to a broker until your business has made some money, right? At least online. In the beginning, we were on Amazon and we had our own website.

We had made like a quarter of a million dollars before we even thought about going into retail. And I shouldn't say that because we were in small retailers and we were in Whole Foods, but those are smaller doors. Doesn't mean Whole Foods can't be a huge door for you because it can. But in order to do that, you would have to be in like all the stores. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. That's also actually just good for people to know that there's normally like stores, a number of stores they'll put you in and they won't just roll you out nationwide. No, it's a regional thing. Yeah. So when someone says they're in Whole Foods, there can be like qualifications to help. There is many qualifications to get into Whole Foods, but crawl before you walk, launch a website, figure out how to make six figures on your own, because then you can tell that story when you go to try to get into retail.

You know, don't try to just, you also don't want to just go into retail because it's hard. I had this just reminding me of a conversation that I had recently talking about buying Instagram followers. There's this woman who's like bought all these Instagram followers and it's all like a smoke and rumors and she's kind of getting exposed at the moment. And it was really interesting for me. I was chatting to someone and I was like, the problem is like, it's actually really obvious if you listen to her podcast or you see her speak on stage because she hasn't earned her stripes. She's not gone through the battles. She hasn't got the war wounds. She hasn't learned the lessons yet. So therefore, like when someone does smoke some mirrors to get somewhere it's like very clear and then you have a conversation with them

and I think too what I'm reminded about from this conversation is like enjoy the battles oh man journey like yeah like be proud of the scars that you actually earn on this journey and building a business because that's what makes you you. That's what gives you the strength in the end. That's what puts you where you're at. And I think too often we're kind of wanting to do things in a pretty way. We're just wanting to click our fingers and be that overnight success or be this, be that.

But it doesn't fun in that either. Like you feel the highs, you've got to feel the lows and to feel like when you've done well and proud of yourself, you've got to have the mess ups and go, Oh, fuck that one up. Yeah. I agree with that.

And you also, you don't want to raise a zillion dollars because you've had a super dope debt and you've got somebody who can talk really great about valuations and how you're going to grow and how, you know, and have really excellent comps. It happens every day where people are raising shit tons of money. But if you don't know how to execute that capital,

to me, it's irresponsible. Don't ask somebody, even if they are a kajillionaire, don't ask them for the money that they've made unless you know that you can take the thing that you're doing and get it off the ground. To me, it's not responsible. You need to fall. You need the bruises and the bumps and the marks, you know, because that way you respect it. And let's talk about a recent fall bruise, bump, whatever you want to call it, that you've been through recently. Because you kind of like touched on it earlier when you were talking about being the recipient of a lot of negative press. Do you want to share like what's been

in the press more recently about Honeypot and the formula changes and kind of share what it's like going through that and your side? Yeah. I mean, it's a lot. It's a lot going through that because, you know, there's so much that happens behind. Do you want to explain the headlines? So essentially the headlines were that we had changed our packaging. And because we took some of the things off our packaging, that meant that those things didn't exist, right? So that meant that our pH balance, our products weren't pH balanced. That meant that we took parabens and dioxides off the label

to the humans that saw it. That meant that that wasn't actually the case anymore. And that actually can mean that. I'm not saying that that can mean that, right? But- And also that you'd sold, that was a rumor. The fact that we had sold and that we had like sold to like Sony or some weird shit like that,

which is very interesting. And then the fact that I wasn't the founder anymore. I'm a co-founder, so I've never just been the only founder, but I assure you that we're still here because the back-to-back call surges are real And, you know, and I want to be here. The fact that we had changed our formula, which we did because we had to. Some people went to the store and created some TikToks that then went super, super, super viral. News medias were picking it up and it was a thing. And it was rough because the helm of the community that this was coming from was actually the community that we serve. And the first time we went viral, it wasn't the community that we served. It was those people.

The first time we went viral was because of something I said in a Target commercial. And the people that reacted to that, when you looked at the comments, it was clear that they had never even tried our products before. But this energy was different because it came from the people that we served. And I have such a love and honor and gratitude for the humans that we serve. The commitment, because I said I've been in a relationship with Honeypot for 10 years. I've also been in a relationship with the humans that we serve for 10 years. And when you're in a 10-year relationship, that is really an indefinite relationship. And you're as devoted to it as I am. And the other half of that relationship is making accusations about the thing that you're in a relationship with or through, right? That hurts really bad. It would be like you're in a really loving relationship with your partner and your partner tells you that you don't love them and that you're no longer in it and that you don't care about it.

And that, can you imagine that? That's the only way I can describe how it feels. And so it was very painful, to be honest. And it took me down and I didn't even know that it would. When I know that that isn't what my intention is, normally it doesn't fuck with me because I'm like, well, that's not really what we're doing. So I don't believe that's what it is. So whatever, say what you want to think. Right. But this was different because it was the people that support us and buy us and use their hard earned money and believe in us and go hard for us.

You know what I'm saying? And so it was hard. And I'm just going to say this because this is real shit. You can't talk about why you do these things. You can't. You can't. You cannot say why you do the things that you do with certain things within your business. Because you've got lawyers behind you. You've got fucking investors behind. You've got retail behind. There's certain things that you just have to, you have to just deal with it. And then you have to put it out. Now, where we fucked up is that we didn't communicate properly.

Because all the things that were happening with distribution, it was insane. The fires that were happening at retail and the lateness that was happening with our retailers, like not getting things to the shelf once. I mean, you cannot believe the fire drills that we were dealing with at this time. That is no excuse though, because that's not our customer's problem. That's our problem. And so we should have done a better job with communicating the changes that we made. We should have done a better job with knowing that the humans that we serve pay attention and they give a fuck. And this is what they use on a daily basis. So we had to fall on our sword for that, right? And I had to really do some work to forgive myself because I take a lot on. I had to personally do a lot of spiritual work

to forgive myself for even giving them the opportunity, even though our formulation is absolutely beautiful and it works and it's effective, right? Even though we are the most scientifically proven vagina wellness brand on the market, even though we had the best intentions, even though the reason why we had to slim our labels down is because there were just things that were happening in the background. And that was the most conservative thing that we could do to make sure that we were buttoned up so that we have the data and the science and all the things to back what we were saying on our labels. We don't take that shit lightly. If we say it, it needs to be backed up. There needs to be paper behind it. And that doesn't mean that there wasn't

paper behind it before. But now that we have made this mission, that this is what we want to do, we had to make sure. That was a decision that we made being a responsible brand. A lot of brands say shit, put shit on their label. A lot of brands greenwash, make a pretty package. But when you look at their formulation, it's crazy, right? I did a podcast recently where I exposed, I used like an app to show some of the ingredients that I, oh, it's organic, it's all this. And it's just actually got like carcinogenics in it and all this stuff. So I think like you're taking... Yeah, we did take that. And the funny thing is that people use those apps

in comparison with our products, not realizing that those apps that you're talking about have no idea what the percentages are in the formulation, right? They give you general information. They're not telling you the full story. And that doesn't mean that a product that has terrible ingredients in it, that shouldn't be exposed. I'm not saying that. I think that should be exposed responsibly. I think that there is a better way to do it than just getting on a TikTok and making a video because you don't necessarily know the whole story and what can

happen in a 30 second video can actually destroy multiple decades of work. And this is the world that we live in now. And also harm the customers who do need it because they're not getting correct information. Exactly. But misinformation is a thing. And building a business is really hard. And FDA regulations are also a real fucking thing. And lawyers and trademarks and registrar, all these things are things that you have to pay attention to, right? And there's literally law firms that are there

just to tell you what to put on your packaging, right? And there's a reason for that because if you say the wrong thing, somebody could come knocking on your door being like, hey, what does this mean? You're saying this on your website, on your labels, on the, what does that mean? You're saying this on your website, on your labels, what does that mean? And can you prove that? These are things that happen, right? But being a person who's consuming a product, you don't have to, it's not really your problem. Your problem is you want

to take your money and you want to go to the store and you want to buy something. But thousands of things have to happen before a bottle shows up on the shelf. You know how long it takes us to build our labels, our design, our packaging? It takes like a year to do that shit because you have to back everything up. You create it. Okay, we got to take it to the lawyer and see what they say. Oh, damn, we said the wrong thing. So then you have to keep going back and forth. This is all real things. This is like startup life. But if you have no desire in going into that and you're a customer that buys a product, misinformation is very easy to happen. With people saying that we sold and that meant that we sold out, no. The day that we have to have a strategic partnership is because we have raised venture

capital money. And venture capital and private equity money requires public or exit. Because guess what? They got to get their bread back. This has nothing to do with being a black-owned business. This has nothing to do with any bullshit. This has everything to do with business. This is business. It's how business works. And I assure you that most of the things that we use, because a lot of the things that we use, think about the soap that you wash your hands with and this table that your picture is sitting on and the company that sells these microphones. These are massive companies.

We're not even thinking about. You understand what I'm saying? I don't know what has to happen in order for this mic to be right here for me to be able to have this podcast with you. It's not my job to, right? But- And I also think it's that reframe when people have built something and you get the opportunity to raise. Can we not just celebrate that? Yeah. Good on fucking you. that means you've got customers who love your product who are repeat buyers yeah and you get to use that money for the good and help more people exactly there's a conversation about why we need to be looking after our vaginas

better yeah better products and i think that sometimes depending on what money mindset we've been brought up in, I think that's actually a real hurdle for a lot of people to actually get their head around. That actually more money in the hands of people who are genuinely trying to leave this world better than they found it. Absolutely. It's a good thing. It is a good thing. And diversifying the money too. It is a good thing because that's how the future of humans of colors in business is going to be

a thing. That's the future of humans of color and women, right? And people being able to raise more money. Yeah. Right. That's the future of more companies that look like Honeypot being able to have an exit strategy at some point. One of the reasons why the percentages are so low, especially I'll speak for Black-owned,

women-owned businesses. Part of the reason why is because there's not enough of us exiting and or going public. is because there's not enough of us exiting and or going public. There's not enough. So there's a bunch of bullshit in why it's hard for us to raise money. And because of the bullshit, there's not enough access to information to scale your company, grow your company, build your team, raise money, do all the things. It's starting to be, right? But this is how it happens. This is how the money stays. This is how the well doesn't go dry, right? And sometimes when companies have a strategic exit

or sell, sometimes the companies that acquire them do fuck the companies up. So I also am like, people have the right to feel that way. I respect people feeling that way, right? Only that's not what our goal is. We've always been upfront and honest. I've always been upfront and honest. And I talk about this a lot because nobody fucking talks about it. And if we're not talking about it, then how are we going to know that it's even a thing that we should be doing? And so I get that a lot of times when companies get bought by much bigger companies, sometimes they can fuck it up. I don't have a crystal ball. All that I can do is set really strong intentions and all that we can do as a team at our company

is set really strong intentions for when the day happens because it will happen. And I keep saying that because when it does happen, I want us to be clear about it. But let me say this. We set strong intentions in our teams, in our meetings, and we talk about these things consistently. We talk about these things with every single team member at our company, which most companies do not do that. Why? Because we want to be intentional about it. And we don't want it to be weird. And we

don't want to fuck our company up. And we want to attract the partner at some point that wants us to continue to do the work that we do. The day that that happens, if that happens, when that happens, I don't have a desire to just peace out and just, maybe you asked me that shit a year ago because things were absolutely crazy. I might've said that, right? But I don't have a desire to just peace out. You can't peace out anyway. That's not how it works. There has to be a transition period and a plan, right? I just think that it's important to say this because black businesses specifically are held to a standard that is almost impossible. It's like almost virtually impossible. And there isn't a lot of room to fuck up. There isn't a lot of room to make a mistake. Right. And

I think that that needs to change. Like that shouldn't be a thing. You know what I mean? Like we shouldn't be afraid that if we have any kind of strategic partnership with shit, what are we going to say so that our community doesn't think that we're going to sell out? But unfortunately, it is a thing. I don't want to say it as a white woman. I don't want to speak for the community. What I do see is that there's two ways to look at things in the sense of like fear of like, okay, what if I get bought out and this company fucks up but also what if i get bought out and it goes on to be a fucking even more phenomenal brand and that's my school of thought and there's more examples for other young black women to see if she did it

so can i and not only young black women, but just fucking humans, human beings. The color, the race part has to do with the fuckery that happens in the investment community because there isn't enough access to capital for people that look like me, that have this pigment of skin. That's the bullshit. But the real shit is, is that I'm a human being. That's really truly what I am. All the other shit is just constructs that were built around me and us to condition us so that we could be put shit in order. Let's keep the shit 100. I'm from the school of thought of be intentional and focus on what you want so that you can get as close to that shit as possible.

My intention is the latter of the one that you talked about. Sure, sometimes when those things happen, they do fuck it up, but I don't want that to be our story. You understand what I'm saying? And you'll do anything you can to make sure. I will do anything that I can.

That is humanly possible. But again, we don't have a crystal ball. That could never happen. We could just go on just running our company every day and just keeping it like this. The only reason why I'm bringing this up is because it's important. I think it is too. It's important to have these conversations because that was the crux. That was one of the bigger parts of why

we went viral and it's some bullshit and it's not fair and it's fucking mean. Because if a lot of people who, and this isn't just about them speaking negatively towards Honeypot and our ingredients and all the things, I respect whatever your decision is, right? If it works for you, great. If it doesn't, I respect you. I respect any company that you go to to buy your feminine care from. I respect it because there's enough business out here for everybody, right? But if you are a person who wants to get behind a viral campaign or viral negative energy about a brand, and I'm not just speaking about this for our brand, because you can do what you want as it relates to us, right? Look at everything you use on a daily basis. Pay attention to the food you're eating. What's the other soaps you're

using? What's the other lotion you're using? Unless you're going to go after every fucking single one of them, be thoughtful about creating a fucking 20 second video, right? Or minute long video. And make sure that you're being responsible with your energy and your actions as it relates to a brand. This cancel culture thing, it is what it is and people can choose what they want to do, but understand what that can do. Understand what a negative, terrible fucking email. I mean, I had death threats, man. Wow. Proper ones. That's crazy.

All because of misinformation. That's what I was going to say. What's hard is I think people get to question when they are encouraging or participating in cancer okay have you done your have you just watched that 29 second tiktok or did you actually go and do your research do your research actually go and like find out whether this was and really understanding well what is your true motive in sharing this or participating in this if you haven't actually gone and looked up any of the other claims and like you said that goes for your business but all businesses too or just generally what you're talking about on social media I think we're in a very dangerous place

right now where people have forgotten to actually use their own like actually think for themselves and go and do research and go and find out things yeah Yeah. And it's a very odd place we're in right now as a society to be, I'm like worried about people's attention spans. I'm like, do people even like reading books or studying a subject or are we just going into 60 second reels now? And that's like what we're taking surface level information. And I do think like the people listening to this are entrepreneurs and they have growth mindsets. And I also think that it's really important not to get sucked into that way of thinking because you're thinking just

a 60 second surface level stuff. You won't go on and and build create the lives and have the impact that you truly want because you need to be a thought leader you need to be a leader you need to be thinking and to me cancel culture is not the behavior of leaders like no it's just it's not the right it's not the right way to go about change and it's not the right way to actually create an action if you truly cared about different things, whatever that is. I think there's better ways at times, but all the time to do it. There is. There's better ways and there's more responsible ways. If you feel that you need to do that, do it. I'm not telling you what to do, but understand that unless you're studying all

the other things that you do to make sure that that thing that you're talking about isn't showing up anywhere else in your life, it's mean, it's irresponsible. There's humans behind that post that you wrote, that email that you wrote. There's humans that have to read that, that have to answer that, that have to respond to that. And what that does, I mean, my team was pretty fucked up off of that shit. Can you imagine? And I'm not even saying this to only talk about Honeypot. I'm just saying it in general because it's a real thing. Our team went through some heavy stuff because they had to read these terrible things. And they had to feel that energy, which is even bigger than a word.

We made some mistakes and we'll own that. But understand that we did the diligence behind why all of those things needed to happen. And again, understand that that's not anybody's problem. That's our problem. But you don't have to be unkind. You don't have to drag people through the mud. There's just a way to do it. And do it if you're very passionate about it, do it. But you don't have to be mean and you don't have to make up lies and you don't have to sign up for something when you don't know that it's true.

You just don't have to. Don't be unkind to other people. Don't be unkind to yourself as well because I think that's the other thing that's really important because you were just saying that you had to do a lot of work and forgive and through lots of elements of this journey, I'm sure. But thank you for opening up on that. I really appreciate it. And I do think

it's really important to be having the conversations. It's all great having the amazing, fun conversations about how awesome an entrepreneur is. And also if we just stay with that narrative all the time, it's lonely, it's unrealistic, and it alienates and isolates all of us. So I think that what i want people to get from this podcast is not only really practical advice because you gave a shit ton but also like it's okay to be on this journey and it's all right to come out with battle wounds at times and keep going and have to get work yeah yeah and i'm really excited the day that you sell i'm really excited for you thank you i, I don't accomplish that.

For us, it won't be a sale. It'll be a partnership, right? Whatever it is. Whatever it is. It's beautiful. Yeah, whatever it is. And how many women you've impacted so far and will go on to impact in like all the years to come. Thank you, sister. Thank you. Thanks for opening up.

I'm grateful for being here. And I think it's really important to understand when you're mean to people, you are being mean to yourself. Yeah. But thank you for saying all that. And thank you for the microphone and the platform

and the opportunity to once again be on your beautiful, amazing, incredible podcast. It's not going to be the last time either. You'll always invite me back. And I will absolutely come. But I'm grateful and I thank you for giving us the opportunity to share our business and our journey and our service to the humans that we serve. Thank you.

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