the bossbabe podcast - 336. Microdosing Mushrooms (LIVE!), Using AI for Productivity + Tapping Into Game Theory for Success

Episode Date: November 14, 2023

In this episode Lindsay and I wanted to be open and share something that's working for us, as well as diving into a conversation about AI. AI isn’t going anywhere. Instead of being afraid it’s going to eliminate your job, let's talk about how to leverage AI for your business. Lindsay and I opened up our recent prompts in ChatGPT to share a wide range of what we’re using it for right now in our lives and businesses beyond understanding our brand voice (it’s like having a bookkeeper, lawyer, and more at your fingertips.) Plus, what you can learn from Game Theory to create success. HIGHLIGHTS Why Natalie and Lindsay have chosen to microdose + the benefits of it Experiences we curated at our retreat that AI can’t duplicate (and were first’s for many of the women that came) Will AI eliminate your job? How we’re protecting ourselves and our businesses Our search history of what we’re using AI for right now from legal to making projections in your business Thoughts on using chat gpt to create a product to sell What Game Theory is and how we can tap into it for success LINKS Join The Société: The Place to Build A Freedom-Based Business FOLLOW bossbabe: @bossbabe.inc Natalie Ellis: @iamnatalie Lindsay Roselle: @lindsayroselle Mentioned in this episode: Daily Harvest Fill your freezer with quick healthy meals - go to dailyharvest.com/bossbabe to get up to $65 OFF your first box. Vessi Get your winter gear to enjoy the outdoors - Go to vessi.com and use code: BOSSBABE for 15% off Soul Get my favorite natural sleep aid - go to getsoul.com/boss and use code: BOSS for 20% OFF Notion Try Notion AI for free - go to notion.com/bossbabe Indeed Find your next hire - go to indeed.com/thebossbabe to get a $75 credit to upgrade your job post. Shopify Sign up for a $1 per month trail of Shopify - go to shopify.com/bossbabe

People have such high bullshit radars now. I don't know. I feel like there's something in our human nervous system that can sense what's truly authentic and tracks with the person versus content that feels mechanized, like a machine did it or like a computer did it or that it was too highly edited. They're not getting the essence of you and then that little bit of magic that keeps people coming back and buying from the same person. Oh, where to begin?

So many things. Let's just be totally honest. We're microdosing right now. Oh, yeah. We're on shrimps. You're like, what are we being honest about? I'm like, which topic did we want to bring up to start? Let's talk a little bit about microdosing. So I mean, I feel like I've talked about plant medicine on this podcast for many, many, many

years, but I'm actually new to the microdosing realm. So whenever I'd done plant medicine before, it'd been in a very ceremonial setting, but I have been hearing the benefits of microdosing for the longest time. I didn't personally do it just for personal reasons. It didn't feel aligned at the time, but some close family friends were doing it and seeing their results has been absolutely incredible. And so if you are listening to me speak right now, you're like, well, she doesn't sound like she's on drugs. It's different. It's not. Microdosing is very different to taking like a ceremonial dose you know a bit more about the science stuff than me so what exactly is microdosing so microdose is a sub-perceptual amount of a plant medicine typically when you're hearing people talk about microdosing

on social media they mean mushrooms oh that's what we mean yeah we're on we're microdosing mushrooms today you can also microdose other things if you so desire. And it's gaining traction outside of mushrooms, but I'm more of an expert on mushrooms specifically. So when you're taking a psilocybin microdose, and psilocybin is the psychoactive chemical that's inside of mushrooms, there's 200 strains of psychoactive mushrooms. So when you're microdosing mushrooms, you might be microdosing any number of strains. And if you're really wanting to nerd out, we can give you some resources at the end to go read about strains. But the micro dose for most people is sub perceptual, meaning you won't feel high. You're not going to feel

like you have any kind of what's the word I'm looking for? Like a wooziness. I know. I don't feel like I think my perception i was worried when i first started of like am i gonna feel woozy am i gonna feel and by the way we are not marketing this in any realm i will just say we are not doctors we are not suggesting this we're not liable all the spiel but i was worried like will i feel woozy or would i feel like i've had too many cups of coffee or something like that i don't feel anything i think really you don't really know yeah only if you the magic of a microdose to me is it's sub perceptual so if you're new to it you don't need to be afraid of it it's not going to make you high you're not going to feel woozy anything like that you may not even notice it and sometimes people are like

I didn't even notice it and you're like okay well you got to give it time as you learn the medicine and as the medicine learns you and you're using it with intention which is the only way i ever advocate for people to approach it is like it's not an easy button it's not something you it's not a vitamin that you take every day and you just like it keeps you well it really has to be taken in a practice with a protocol and with intention and when you do that you do start to sense that it's on board. You know, like I know I'm on a microdose day. I can feel it, but I don't feel like I have any kind of problem with it. You know, I can drive fine. I can work. I'm totally sober in terms of my ability to talk and podcast and everything. If anything, it's an enhancement. The reason I love to do it

is like I feel like it gives me this generalized sense of optimism. So I approach everything I'm doing that day, whether it's relating to my family, it's something in my own inner work, it's creating something for the business, all of it with like just a little bit more optimism, which to me feels like creativity. It feels like expansiveness. It feels like abundance. Like I just come to everything a little bit more open yeah and two people close to me who started on a microdosing protocol so one of them has Parkinson's and one of them has really bad arthritis and what was incredible for me to see was the Parkinson's trauma reduced the arthritis pain went down and I've just heard from so many

entrepreneurial friends that I have that it supported them with ADD, with focus, with creativity. I've heard from postpartum mums that it has supported them through postpartum, which I didn't even know about it during postpartum, but it supported them with feelings of anxiety, depression. Again, I'm not a doctor. I'm not promoting any of this. Just anecdotally, I'd heard a lot of the benefits. And so I was just curious myself to try. And I will say I do feel sharper. Like I'm not getting a lot of sleep at the minute. My baby just loves to not sleep. So I do feel sharper. I have drank very little coffee today

and I feel like I have, but I don't feel jittery or anything. From like a science perspective, what are the benefits that you might get from microdosing? Yeah, I mean, that's a very deep dive that we could go into. Again, there's actual doctors and stuff that would speak to it more eloquently than I will. But overall, like high level, essentially what's happening is it's going and it's working on serotonin and your serotonin receptors. And there's some magic to it that isn't studied yet. And it's hard to do research, as you can imagine, with something that is still a controlled substance in many states.

But a lot of the research that there is on psilocybin specifically is from big doses. And when you look at big doses, Huberman just did an episode. And basically, the conclusion of the episode was it's curative for treatment-resistant depression. It's curative for PTSD, like severe PTSD to do a couple journeys with big doses of psilocybin because what it does is it goes in and completely rewires the neural pathway of the trauma or the neural pathway of the depression. And it leaves you with like this clean slate where you can then re remap the brain a little bit. And so microdosing, while hasn't been studied in the same way, in theory, in smaller amounts, the medicine still does the same thing. So it goes in and it finds those neural pathways that maybe if you're if you have ADHD, or you're struggling with depression, or you're in postpartum, it'll find those those pathways that feel a little chaotic or feel dissonant with how the rest of your brain works or how you want to feel. And it goes in and it just, I love the metaphor of like it sweeps off the snow, like it shovels the driveway. It just clears it off a little bit

and then you can choose a different path on the same thought. So perhaps your thoughts feel chaotic because you're always going down these paths of like, I want to do more. I want to do all these things and like ADHD. And the medicine will come in and go, okay, which of these feels most aligned? Let's focus on that. And so it's not working in a pharmaceutical way where it's pumping you with an amphetamine and kind of forcing you to focus because you've got so much energy on one thing. it's coming in with serotonin and a little bit of magic and going, why are you so distracted? Like, why is your tendency to go to nine things at once?

What do we need to look at here? And it just kind of like smooths all that over. Or with depression or postpartum, it comes in and goes, what's the pathway that you're going down in your mind that's causing you to feel darkness or anxiety or whatever it is and how can we over time in a practice kind of shovel a different path through the snow to give you a different way to go down that thought loop and I feel the results of that come really well

in practice so it's not something at least for me and in all the anecdotal stuff I know of, you don't get the results if you're popping it here and there as like, oh, I need to focus today. I'm in a microdose. It really has to be taken in a protocol where you're like, I'm really working. I'm in postpartum and I really need support. So I'm going to take this every other day or every third day. I'm working with the medicine to get me out of these intrusive thoughts or I'm working with the medicine to get me out of these intrusive thoughts or i'm working with the medicine to help me make peace with my new body whatever the thing is that you're kind of out of sorts on is it legal in some states what is the legal situation criminalized

right so i'm not going to get arrested for admitting this no no i mean decriminalization clarified that first but now we know it's decriminalized in most places or many places. It's on a similar trajectory to marijuana, I would say, where marijuana is still classified in the federal level as completely illegal. But many, many states have legalized it. And it's been basically put on a separate list with the federal government to say, we're not going to go after this. We have much worse things like fentanyl. I'm like, if I'm the government, I'm definitely much worse things like fentanyl you know i'm like if i'm the government i'm definitely gonna focus on fentanyl not marijuana similar with psilocybin where they're like the threat of mushrooms to society is so low compared to fentanyl or

methamphetamine that on limited resources so they they've classified it in a lot of places where it's been decriminalized it's kind of like it's up left up to the state and it's decriminalized in the state so it's not every state you do have to look at your state and your city even some cities within states have decriminalized where the state hasn't but in general I don't know I this is me speaking but in general I'm I'm of the belief that like if you're gonna if it's if it's gonna help you be healthier and it's a risk you're willing to take do your research but decriminalization is safe like you're not gonna go to prison to take if you're taking it do you have a show where you get yours from do i share

where i get it yeah i can i could do that privately i don't i the owners of that company don't love to have it shared publicly but there's many places i will say this about sourcing it. So I have a company, I built a brand with a co-founder that is focused on education about microdosing. And then we also make a line of functional mushroom supplements. So we do sell supplements and they're formulated to support your body through microdosing because there's a lot of vitamins that will function, that will support the psilocybin working better for you. So we built gummies, three daily gummies that you take that have supplemental vitamins and stuff in them that help the psilocybin do its job. So you would take them alongside? Yeah. So people are interested, can they just DM you? DM, yes. Okay, cool. And one thing I will say about finding the actual psilocybin for microdosing is just to be wary of who you're getting it from. In the modern world, we're moving into this new age where there's a lot more openness to it. And a lot of people entering the market, selling it, who aren't taking care with formulation or potency or concentration.

So you don't know what you're taking because i've heard so many anecdotal things for moms being like oh my god i took like the guy told me it was a microdose and i was like hallucinating like that wasn't a microdose like you shouldn't you shouldn't feel it so i caution you like if they're selling it on signal or telegram and you're getting dms about it just use your yeah i mean that's what i think was good about cannabis legalization that personally isn't for me like i love cbd soul cbd i love it but weed just isn't for me i've tried it a couple times like i it's just a no but i do love how the legalization of it has meant that it's safer for people that are into it to be able to get it yeah i think that think that's awesome. I do get nervous about, because we all know,

especially in America, what the pharmaceutical industry is like, what that's going to look like. It's coming. Now that, especially that we're seeing a lot of people talking about microdosing and those things, I'm very curious how that will shape up. Some of the largest VC investments in the last quarter were into psychedelic companies.

Really? Yeah. Like billions of dollars from VCs. Because it's what? Because it's like legalized now? They can actually legally invest in them? You can legally invest in it because the products that are being made

by those startups are all therapeutic uses. So what's been decriminalized, like what's being legalized and decriminalized is on a wide spectrum is the therapeutic use. So meaning you're taking big doses, sitting with a therapist, and they're guiding you through the whole journey. That's really the intention of the legalization efforts. And that is where it gets to be a little controversial in like the psychedelic community, because so many of the anecdotal users of it who have used

it for years and people like us who, you know, we found it on our own and we've developed our own practice and relationship with it. We see that type of legal, that path to legalization basically opening the door only to pharma to come in and take out all of the recreational or kind of like the self-prescribed use and make it only something you can get from a pharmaceutical company that's prescribed by a therapist, which basically makes it like an SSRI or other pharmaceuticals that you could only get from a doctor, which there's a side of the spectrum that supports that and says they're dangerous and they could be used. And just like on everything, there's always a spectrum of beliefs around it. But I think the risk of pharmaceutical

companies coming in is it just makes it incredibly cost prohibitive. The cities that have started to roll that kind of stuff out, like in Oregon, they rolled out therapeutic use of psilocybin, and it was $3,000 or $4,000 per session. What? It just makes me sad because, again, I know people that, I mean, plant medicine generally or microdosing has had such a profound impact on their lives and they couldn't afford those kind of price tags and it just makes me really sad if it does go down the path i mean i don't know a lot about it hopefully it will go down the path the way cannabis has where you can walk into a store and actually okay this is the effect i want this how

I want to feel and hopefully it'll be something like that or these other companies online like I do hope it goes down that yeah way I I think I mean I don't know it's hard to predict it's moving so much more quickly than cannabis did which I think oh is it yeah I mean there's it's cannabis took I'm from Colorado so like we were the first state to legalize marijuana. And then my dad is a defense, a criminal defense attorney. So I'm steeped in like crime and drug laws because that's he did so much with cannabis law through my childhood. Like I heard about it all the time. And cannabis was like this slow burn.

You know, it was decriminalized and then it was legalized for medical use. And then everyone hacked that system legalized for medical use. And then everyone hacked that system by getting like medical cards. And finally they just went and said, let's just tax it and make it legal and then set it up in situations where to buy it, you have to come in, you have to give an ID and their bud tenders are like what they're called in Colorado. The bud tender asks you those questions and says, what are you looking for? What type of dosage? What kind of feel do you want? So you're getting some guidance, but it's still a personal choice to use it in the way and the set and the setting that you're going to use it. That was like a 10 year process in Colorado to get marijuana to

be legalized. And then, you know, over the next five years, all these other states popped up. I don't know the stats now of how many states marijuana is legal in, but it's most states. And psilocybin and psychedelics are already moving a lot faster than marijuana did. But they're encountering a different type of resistance, which is like this debate over should you be able to self-prescribe something that treats depression, that treats anxiety, that treats ADHD. And I think there's valid concern there. It's like a whole philosophical debate. So there's valid medical concern of like making sure that somebody doesn't take it and trigger a psychiatric episode without

support. Very, very valid and not really as much of a risk for something like marijuana because it doesn't have the same psychedelic effect. But in the same token to me, like in my belief system, I'm like, I don't want the government telling me that I can't treat myself. And if I'm struggling with depression or anxiety or ADHD, and I'm seeking something other than a pharmaceutical that has a whole host of known side effects that are potentially worse than the condition itself, I don't really love the government telling me the only way I can access that medication is if I pay thousands of dollars to work with a therapist. And so that debate is really heating up. And you see recently, California, it went all the way up to Newsom to legal or to decriminalize it for the

whole state of California. And he vetoed it because he said there's just not enough like systems in place in the state to make sure that it can be administered safely and a lot of the psychedelic community was like oh here we go you know because it it's basically him saying I need pharma or I need some type of like entity to administer all of it instead of just trusting people to do it yeah but it's interesting though because i feel like so for me i'm not taking it for depression or anything like that i'm really taking it because i've heard the benefits of mental clarity of productivity of all those things and that's why i'm really interested to try it so i mean yeah i'm very

interested to see where it goes but i'm a fan so far i'll report backwards so far so good yeah i mean i think in low doses and it's it's as we say a lot you know you and i when we talk about different things it's like you have to be called to it for yourself it's not one of those i definitely don't like it when people think of it like a vitamin or like coffee or caffeine this is not a supplement no it's not the the functional mushrooms are great for that and our daily usage things like and they have lion's mane and reishi and you know, all these other things in them that really, one, they're fully legal and two, they support you no matter what. Anytime you work with a psychedelic in any dosage, I think it has to be something you're innately like intuitively called to. And like you and I have talked about just anecdotally

with moms, especially where it's like, there's kind of this whisper of, can you, you know, should you do it? What about breastfeeding? What about postpartum? All these things. And I'm always like, no one's ever going to research this. Like there's never going to be scientific data on pregnant moms or on breastfeeding moms. Like no company is willing to take that risk. So you just have to trust yourself and your intuition. And then there's resources out there like Moms on Mushrooms. If you go... Is that a thing?

Oh, she's blowing up. She's all over the news. She's from Colorado too. She's doing an incredible job advocating for microdosing. And it's a community of moms. And she teaches protocol. She teaches the practice. She teaches the sacred lineage of a lot of the medicines.

And she's really normalizing that it shouldn't be something that is so taboo. And I mean, I'm on a rant now, but as an alternative to other things like alcohol and all these other things that we've used, moms especially, have used for a long time to cope with stress and has been like mommy wine culture and like there's all this instagram traction around like i need a whole bottle of wine to like take my kids to the park and it's funny but it's also like really kind of disturbing when you understand how bad alcohol can be for your body and how destructive it is for some people's family systems. And so a lot of her work is really incredible on taking the taboo away and really making it so normal that we're seeking out plants from the earth that have these properties in them that can help us with everything from focus and clarity and creativity and like

connection all the way to being an alternative to a pharmaceutical drug that has side effects that you don't want yeah and for anyone listening to you know this is taboo for a lot of people and you might be listening being like wait this this feels like we shouldn't be talking about this or whatever this is not us advocating i always say do your own research do what works for you i just love sharing this stuff if it comes in my awareness i just think well who else is talking about it like we get to talk about it and just be honest about the conversation because i know in most circles i'm in it's a conversation and most people are starting to try it or know people that are trying

it i think well why not talk about it like i hate things that are gatekept so again this is we're not advocating by any means that you should or shouldn't do this it's very much just and probably people that are listening and i know this because i'm british that are from the uk it is a very different culture and i don't think weed is legal the way that it is over here i mean i haven't lived there in so long i don't know but they're probably listening to me like what is this what are they talking about? Like, it's just different. And it's a different culture. But I do find whatever is talked about in America does end up making its way over there as well. So I love to just say, hey, this is what's being talked about.

I'm trying it. I'm a biohacker. I always have been like, well, not always, but like the last seven years, I have been so into biohacking. To me, this feels like a tool that I'm trying that I'm going to put into my toolkit if it feels like it works yeah and tools can look so different for every single one of us I have so many now tools in the toolkit that I just love tapping into whether it's breath work whether it is ceremonial we just did a life reset retreat every single night we did a ceremony none of it involved plant medicine we didn't do that but every single night there was a ceremony we brought in elements from our personal toolboxes that we

wanted to give to these women and we can always go into that but we did some really cool stuff we did some fire rituals ecstatic dance we did the most potent breath work that was one of actually my favorite sessions ever that was so powerful i think the setting the energy the environment we did cacao ceremony we did sound bath and these really are just all tools i would say are in our toolkit that we use to balance life and business and everything that goes along with it in a way that feels really good and i there's nothing i love more than finding these things and bringing it to other women especially if it's their first time it wasn't everyone's first time doing breath or cacao or for most people probably was actually

on some of those ceremonies, but it's so nice to bring it to them and say, hey, let's try it together. These are people that I really trust who are facilitating it. If it works for you, great. If it doesn't work for you, then fine. Yeah.

I don't think I told you, I don't know if you were in the bus when we were coming back on breathwork, which is a tangent, but this is where we go. I feel like breathwork is the thing that healed my birth trauma the most. You did say that. Yeah. Of everything that I did.

Yeah. Which makes sense to me because it's so embodied and so, so pelvic, so connected to the pelvic floor, which I want to talk about one last thing on, on what you were just saying around all these other modalities and microdosing specifically. But anytime I hear people that I look up to in business and life, which are so important to me, talk about something edgy or taboo, I'm like, thank you for being honest about it. Because a lot of what's out there in the, we were just joking about this before we hit

record, what's out there in the plant medicine space is like the extremes, right? Like you get the hippie generation, like the 70s, which in my mind were 30 years ago, but was actually 50 years ago. Oh, God. Yeah. And like the funky 70s, like the kind of cartoony mushrooms and like the guys with beards and long hair. And you're like, OK, i don't relate to this and then there's also kind of this whole super new agey like super spiritual spiritual like poly and like all these you know like they're

like they're too edgy where they're like i went and did plant medicine and it told me i need to be poly and like all these things and and i'm like okay i can't like you just don't relate i also don't relate to this like i'm a suburban mom with two kids like i'm not like i'm trying to run my business i'm trying to like be happy get my systems in order so i want to know how these things could help me be more me but also fit into like my life that i've got pretty well planned out like i'm not looking to be completely disruptive and go blow up my life like i want stuff that's very supportive of me being my best self. And that's, that's like, at least how I'm coming at these conversations now is like, I'm not the expert, but I also want to normalize it because it has transformed my life. And yes, I've done deep

ceremony and I actually don't recommend deep ceremony for everybody, but microdosing is one of these things I feel is very accessible and very normal. And there's lots of resources to learn to learn about it and I just I'm fully transparent that it's a part of my life because it's been so supportive of me being my best self yeah there's so much around that gatekeeping conversation and we've talked about it privately too and we can unpack it but I feel like women can't say as much as men can I'm just gonna be totally honest oh yeah i feel like some male podcasts they can shoot the shit they can say all the things going on in their lives they can even talk about did you see that in the industry did you see that on twitter did you see and there's no repercussions right like even me and steven will talk about it and he's like

i could say that there'd be no repercussions for women if you say certain things oh you know she shouldn't be saying that or i it's so much easier i think to get cancelled or to get shit online as a woman than it is as a man and i just don't want to gatekeep i love just sharing anything that i'm doing that's useful or talking about stuff that's going on in the industry what should we be learning what should we be paying attention to without fear of oh God like is this something that's gonna get me canceled yeah I mean it is different yeah well and like when you to me all this kind of stuff the things that we're doing for ourselves and the things that we come into naturally because we are natural Seekers we're natural Builders and as entrepreneurs we naturally have higher risk tolerance and so I'm probably am more comfortable micro like getting out into plant medicine and getting

out into some of these things that like my peer group is like oh but it's so authentic to me and I feel like a lot of the people that play it safe online or you're learning you're only learning like certain buckets of life from them you're like business stuff from them but like you know nothing about what they're doing on the personal side to keep themselves in alignment or you're learning life systems or motherhood or relationship like whatever it is that you're following someone for home design like I follow all these home influencers and I'm like how the fuck do they keep their house so clean like no way they have kids no way they work from home no way they don't you know but like their whole world is keeping the house clean. I'm like,

okay. So I don't see the whole picture. And I think that's one of these things that like, as I've grown up in online business, I'm like, okay, I want to see the honest thing that the people I've learned so much in one pillar about, like, I want to see what else they do that because you know somebody who's an expert at building a business or an expert at social media has applied expertise to other things in their life so why can't we talk about those things and i agree with you that i think men can talk in jest about a lot of that stuff and be a lot more edgy where and not get any repercussions where like we behind the scenes are like I don't know maybe we shouldn't say that

and now we are going to say it because let's put a stake in the sand and say hey we are going to start saying that there's no gatekeeping let's just be real let's talk about all the stuff something I am so proud of is being an angel investor in multiple female-owned businesses and many of these businesses are actually product-based brands. I've seen behind the scenes of these growing businesses and one thing many of them have in common is a platform that really works. If you are looking to start or grow an online store, Shopify is the global commerce platform that helps you sell at every stage of your business. That's why I'm so happy that they're sponsoring this podcast. From the launch your online shop stage to the real life

store stage and all the way to did we just hit a million orders stage, Shopify is there to help you grow. At Boss Babe, we've used Shopify to fulfill fast action bonuses during our launch and it was an incredible experience. The automations we implemented were executed perfectly in Shopify's platform and our audience loved the extra bonuses they received in hand because of it. Shopify helps you turn browsers into buyers with the internet's best converting checkout up to 36% better compared to other leading e-com platforms and it truly is so simple to go get set up. Shopify makes it easy for you to show up exactly the way you want to. You customize your online store to your brand style with gorgeous, flexible templates and powerful tools, no coding required. Shopify powers 10% of all e-commerce in

the US and is the global force behind millions of entrepreneurs across every size, across 175 countries. Plus, Shopify's customer support is so quick and helpful. They are there to support your success every step of the way. Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at shopify.com slash boss babe, all lowercase, because businesses that grow, grow with Shopify. One of the most valuable assets you can have in a freedom-based business is having team members that also see and support the vision of your business. That's why feeling confident in the hiring process is so important when it comes to building your team. So what should you do? Say hello to Indeed. Indeed is sponsoring today's podcast episode and is the hiring platform where you can track, interview, and hire all in one

place. Instead of spending hours on multiple job sites searching for candidates with the right skills, Indeed's powerful hiring platform can help you do it all. Indeed has streamlined hiring with powerful tools that find you matched candidates. With instant match, Indeed has a system that really works and we all know how much I love a system. You don't need to be posting on multiple platforms or hunting for qualified candidates. Instead, you can stay in your zone of genius and allow Indeed's hiring platform to do the work for you, bringing you qualified candidates that fit your job description. And even better, Indeed's the only job site where you only pay for applications that meet your must-have requirements. So if you are looking for that next hire who will support you in your business, join more than 3 million businesses worldwide that use Indeed to hire great talent fast.

Here's what you need to do. Head to indeed.com slash thebossbabe to get a $75 sponsored job credit to upgrade your job post. That's indeed.com slash thebossbabe to get a $75 sponsored job credit. As we launch our new version of the society, we have been creating templates in Notion for our members to literally copy and paste in their own business. It's been such a big project that's so fun, all because of Notion's capabilities. Notion is one of today's podcast sponsors, and if you don't know much about Notion, it's a beautiful platform that combines your notes, documents, and projects all together for you and your team to access. You likely already know how much I use Notion, but I wanted to tell you that now it's even better and easier to use because of its newest feature, Q&A, an AI assistant that can

answer questions in seconds. Whether you're trying to find that launch campaign outline for your last quarter, dig up a long lost link, ask Notion Q&A, and you'll get your answer in seconds. You can even ask Q&A questions from anywhere in Notion in seconds. You can even ask Q&A questions from anywhere in Notion so you don't need to leave the document or project that you're working on. It truly is incredible. Plus you can trust that in Notion your data is secure because Notion AI is designed to protect your information. No AI models are trained with your information. The data is encrypted and answers will never use information from pages you don't have access to. When you use Notion AI, it's even easier to do your most meaningful work. You can try Notion AI for free when you go to notion.com slash boss babe. That's

all lowercase letters, notion.com slash boss babe to try the powerful, easy to use Notion AI today. I love that you said that actually, I haven't heard it articulated like that, where when someone's really putting a lot of attention and care into one area of their life and they're doing a really good job, they are probably doing that in so many different areas of their life. And I even think about some of the questions I get of like, you know, how are you able to function doing all of these things? How would you run these kinds of businesses? How are you also present in this way? All of these kinds of questions. And I think a lot of that kind of goes back to my biohacking journey. Like there are certain things that I have done for a really long time, certain routines that I have, supplements that I take, things that I do for my health, my body, my relationship, so many things that then trickle down to allow me to perform in

business but if I'm only talking about the business thing then we might be comparing ourselves in completely different ways because you might think okay she's all in on the business but not seeing any of the stuff behind the scenes the mindset work like all of that stuff I also really openly shared on this podcast one of the biggest things I ever did for myself and my growth was Hoffman that Hoffman retreat and for a lot of and my growth was Hoffman. That Hoffman retreat. And for a lot of people, they might think Hoffman sounds like, why are you going there if you're not queer? Do you know what I mean? There's a lot of taboo associated with therapy and those things, or at least there was. Why not share the full picture of everything? It doesn't make you

less than to be really honest about the support that you have in all different areas. Or I love it when people ask me about the support I have at home because I don't want to give the impression that I'm doing it all myself I'm not we can't physically do it all ourselves yeah I mean I say it so much you'll hear me say it all the time on my podcast and here too or it's like it's truth like if I have learned anything in all of my years of being alive but also you know especially in the last three or four years of everything that's happened in my personal life and in the world around me, it's like, not only do I just feel directly called to be truthful about stuff, but also I can sniff out dishonesty so well. Like, I just know if you're not telling me the truth and I know it through the screen.

And I think that that's actually one of the beautiful things about social media and being so inundated with social media all the time is like in some ways if you're conscious of it it makes you more discerning because you're like I'm getting inundated so my nervous system has actually attuned to being able to sort through information so quickly and go nope nope nope oh interesting that's real that's authentic that's, there's something magnetic about authenticity and honesty that all the performative stuff on social media, your brain just glosses right over. And I think for people like us, it's like, I want to, I want to be that for people, not because it is going to sell more things or get more followers, but because like you said earlier, if we're going to put time into it and it's going

to be time away from our family time away from our babies like I want it to be valuable and I want it to be contributing to my legacy and I don't want to be doing things that are not in service to the people that are in the audience and also not in service to like the general consciousness of legacy yeah I mean for all we know it goes the complete opposite way and it repels people and people are like I'm not even gonna listen or tune in and that's also fine I think it's great to know who your audience is and who your audience isn't and you can't please everyone all the time I also do think going back to that you can tell when someone's being honest or not I really do think so and I do think with this new age of ai the new age of ai i

mean it's yeah whole thing but with ai i think one thing ai can't replace is your humanity and this is you being as open it's being open honest about your human experience and ai can't replace that i was i remember after we had done one of our CEO mama retreats and I was driving back in the car and I was listening to a podcast all about AI. And it was one of the, it was like one of those warnings of what AI could end up turning into. And that's a whole conversation in and of itself. But I remember on that drive thinking, okay, AI is going in this direction, whether we like it or not. AI is, AGI is about to become a thing in our lifetime. It's going to change everything and anything.

And so I was thinking, okay, as an entrepreneur, my brain doesn't go to the fear. My brain isn't like, oh my goodness, this is awful. My brain goes to the optimism of it. And I think, well, how can I make sure I've still got a job in this wave of AI? When AI does take over so many things, how do I still make sure I have a job?

And when I was driving back from that retreat, I thought, this is something AI cannot take away and replicate. AI cannot replicate that connection, that feeling that we all had sitting in those circles, doing that work together, dropping in deep of vulnerability and realness. Maybe I'll eat my words in 30 years time, but I don't see right now. I'm like, have you seen Westworld? Yeah, well, true. And maybe I will eat my words, but I do think there is a level of that that AI won't replace, or at least not for a long time.

And when I'm thinking about protecting my job, that's kind of what I think about how are we bringing people together? How are we showing our humanness? ChatGPT can write podcast scripts now. I know because I've done it. I've put prompts into chat gbt here's something i've taught on before can you turn this into a podcast segment and it's done it

very very well and that's really good for teaching a certain topic right now ai cannot replicate my humanness right well and i'm such a nerd you know i have a long background in yoga i i've taught yen yoga for most of my yoga teaching career. And yin yoga is very nervous system focused and very slow and all floor based and really uncomfortable by design. It's not meant to, it's not restorative at all. It's not a restorative practice where you're like laying there with complete release in the nervous system. It's actually meant to challenge your nervous system to make you really uncomfortable, to put you into a long hold in a deep stretch so that those tissues are more resilient the next time you encounter stretch. And so I come at everything from that lens.

And it's like, I always think with AI, you know, I'm like, you can't replace a human nervous system. You can build a computer and a computer has a motherboard and it mimics a nervous system in the sense that it's responsive to stimulation. But there's something about human consciousness that's at this level of magic where like the feeling you get being around other humans, even if it's artificially created, is different than actually feeling the body next to you,

being able to touch warm skin. I've watched Westworld and it's totally freaky and maybe we'll get there in 100 years. But, you know, I'm like, even if you could put on VR goggles and sit at a mastermind table with all these incredible women that you, you know, that are your peers, it still won't feel the same to your nervous system as actually truly being around humans. And I think when you look at the evolution of humanity and how our physical bodies have evolved in our nervous systems to be tribe oriented, like to be community oriented. I just don't see if that's considered in how you

approach your life and your business. I don't see how AI can completely replace anything any of us do. Sure, it can write your scripts, it can write your course. It could teach something that right now you're making money teaching. But there will always be humans that need that skill or have that skill that want to be with other humans. And I think, at least for me, I'm like, OK, how do we, obviously, I think we have some time, but it's like, how do we stay ahead of the human to human, in-person, relational connection? And creating that. I think that will be the edge as AI comes in.

I do think so. For me, and again, I am no AI expert, but when I think about skills I want to learn and areas that I want to develop into, I'm always thinking about that as an entrepreneur. And there are certain skills that I don't want to refine right now because I know AI is already taking over so many of those things from copy, design, editing, things like that. That's something I'm not going to get into because I know

already AI is doing so much replacing of that but there is a lot of the humanness behind those things. Like we were even talking about podcasting, having reels chopped up you know you can upload into video where i know you can upload a 60 minute video and it will give you 10 reels and it's 10 reels that it thinks are the best most interesting that is right now still not at the level of someone who understands our industry that understands what really resonates with people right now in the moment in this market it's different yeah humans right now can still curate from a very different angle because of the knowledge they've had whether that will show i mean i'm saying whether we all know that's going

to change but i do think about what is our humanness that isn't going to be replicated and how do we tap into even more of that yeah yeah it's a great question and i i mean not an expert either, but I feel like it comes back to this, what we were already talking about around the experience in the body and just trusting that as the world around you gets more and more AI and more automated and less human in a sense that it will be incumbent upon you to know your body even better and to be in these somatic practices like breath work like plant medicine if that's for you like yoga or movement practices exercise like

all the things that support your physical well-being because you will be so reliant on discernment from a place of like the physical nervous system knowing in the moment whether that thing is authentic or not because it will be so easy like all the warnings are coming from like the nefarious uses of ai and how it could deep fake somebody or all this stuff and i'm like yeah i'm sure that's gonna happen and i still trust that my nervous system would know a deep fake from the real thing i don't know you know that that is actually something that is worrying me slightly the deep fake stuff so I have this fear that someone is going to deep fake a video of me saying something that I never said or did and people won't know the difference well did you hear

Huberman and Rogan like had a whole deep fake this this happened to them what they've both talked about it me what happened well they both were like I mean I think it's early enough on right now and I don't know the whole circumstance of like was it created nefariously or did somebody do it as like an experiment but it was a deep fake of Rogan and Huberman having a conversation and I don't remember exactly what it was about but it was opinions that they haven't actually shared and I think something you know vaccine related or something and they both immediately commented on it saying this isn't us like we would tell you guys if we were in person, this isn't us. You can tell, like, blah, blah, blah.

And it just kind of got dismissed. Like, it wasn't a big deal. But Huberman recently commented on it, like, kind of in jest. He's like, oh, yeah, I already got deep faked with Rogan. You know, they had us talking about something we've never talked about. But, like, Joe's a friend. And if I'm ever, like, doing a podcast with Joe, you guys will know. And just kind of brushed it off and i was like oh so right now i think it's early enough on that like the audience

is like oh yeah okay and they believe you when you say that but would they like for some people though because there has been instances with influencers celebrities content creators where something has been released whether it's a previous tweet they've put out yeah something they've said on a podcast that they've ended up getting canceled for. And it's so out of context. Right. Yeah. But then if they just came forward and said, that wasn't me, I didn't do that or say that, are we going to be believed?

I don't know. I definitely have thought about that. That's a good question because right now, like going back seven years and pulling Chris Rock's tweets, you know, from 2015 when he was tweeting stuff that now gets him canceled it's like well okay he definitely tweeted that because we knew in 2015 it had to have been him yeah but yeah you know if it's 2027 and you're like in you know 2024 something gets pulled up you're like no i never did i never did that and people are like well you I don't know. That's definitely something that could come back up. It's so fascinating because I'm like, there's so many freaking things going on in the world to worry about. And AI just seems like so low on the list. But at some point, it's definitely going to, I think, rear its head and be like, oh, hello. Now you're getting canceled over a deep fake and like it's your word against AI's word. Yeah, I know.

AI is a supercomputer that can basically trace its steps a thousand times deeper than you could ever cover, you know. Have you seen any interesting uses of AI in our industry? I sent you one the other day of somebody that I follow who was like showing that she built a whole entire course and was selling it that was completely built on ChatGPT. I was like showing that she built a whole entire course and was selling it that was completely built on chat GPT. I was like, that's really interesting because it's such a trigger button right now from a creativity standpoint to go, you know, are you, if you're selling something that is sourced through chat GPT, are you, are you selling original content or not? Which that

whole debate is super fascinating to me. So I, I watch a lot of that. I also like all the like, you know, busy work hacks, like using AI that's built into all the systems like Asana and ClickUp and all the video editing stuff, podcast editing where it's like it can take out all the ums and you don't have to pay a sound engineer to do all of that, that kind of stuff. One of the CEO mamas who's using it for art is super interesting to me too, because it's being used in business because she's selling the prints, but it's all being generated by ChatGPT, but with her prompts. So it's her creativity prompting the art, but the art isn't actually coming from her physical hand. And that whole

debate that she's told us about, I think is super fascinating too. Because to me, I'm like, that's cool. It's art and it's entrepreneurial. It's edgy. Like, I love it. And she's like, yeah, half my audience freaking loves it. And half my audience is like, you're stealing art from the collective. And it's like, what? I mean, I get it, I guess.

But that's where I'm watching it. I'm very curious of how it's going to apply to like art and literature. I also love like, I have lawyers in my family. I have doctors, all these things. And I'm like, do you know that ChatGPT can pass the bar? Do you know that ChatGPT can pass the medical boards? And like all of these professional degrees that are so prestigious and so expensive to get and such. Like my best friend is a cardiothoracic surgeon.

She's spent 15 years in medical school and residency. And God knows how many hundreds of thousands of dollars and like hours and hours and hours of no sleep and time away from her children. And, you know, she operates on hearts and I'm like, Chad TPT can pass the boards that you have to spend months studying for. And we're probably only a couple years away from AI being able to do those heart surgeries. Maybe, you's not crazy you don't know in our industry i'm like oh this is so fascinating it's a business opportunity but when you look at like law or medicine and you're like whoa are we going to need all these professionals are is this going to take out people like can ai set up on the judge lectern and listen to the arguments on both sides and evaluate the thousands of pages of law and go, nope, in fairness, like, here's the argument and here's the argument. This is the correct answer. Here's the ruling.

Probably end with less bias. lawyers? Well, we need doctors. If AI can scan your body and input all of your medical records and spit out a diagnosis, do you need a doctor? I don't know. That's the kind of stuff where I'm like, whoa. I think as entrepreneurs, we really should be having the conversations with ourselves around, okay, if we know this is where AI is going, how are we protecting ourselves, our businesses, and then getting ahead of the curve for also one thing i was going to share what i've seen in the industry that i really like so inside i use canva for designing everything canva now has gotten it's got a great plugin with chat gbt where i can start designing stuff for you but one thing that i saw recently is inside the brand guide i think it's if you have like the premium version of canva you can put all

your colors your logos your top fonts everything you can put all your colors, your logos, your fonts, everything. You can now put your brand voice guidelines inside there and then work with AI to generate all the copy for you in your brand voice. And I thought that was really, really cool because I hadn't seen that done before. Cut in for 95% of people, that's going to blow everything

they could organically create out of the water. Yeah, and it's going to save them so much time. It's crazy. So you literally, yeah, you just go into your brand inside Canva and it now has brand guidelines, tone of voice. You just input your tone of voice. And then when you're creating a text box in Canva, you'll just say, I did a podcast about X, Y, Z.

Can you write a title for me? Can you do the show notes? Can you sum it up? I've even had, we should actually pull up our chat utilities and see what we've been using it for lately I can share some of mine but I've I've literally given chat gpt here's the workshop that I want to talk about here's the specific things I want to cover can you design a presentation for me can you do a workshop outline all of this and it's done it really really well do you ever think with AI like I don't know if your brain works like mine but I'm

like I wonder how long it's going to be until they can like put something in my brain and it takes the idea I have and and builds it out for me like I think that will happen though so I just think as an entrepreneur do we want to be like like where do we want to sit on this do we want because I do again I still hold on to and I'm going to hold on to this until I'm proven. Otherwise, I do think there's a lot of magic in the human element that you bring. So in your agency, if you work with AI, what's the human lens? What is your specialty and background

that actually makes what AI produces way stronger than what you could do on your own? Or from a design perspective, I still work with a design agency, even though a lot of it can be done through AI, because they bring elements that I wouldn't think to ask for because they I can't read my mind right so they bring those elements and it's very interesting I'm going to pull up my chat and see what I've been looking at as you're as you're talking I'm like you know what I needed for it like I need a sister wife I need an AI sister wife that could do everything at home

that I don't have time for or don't want to do wouldn't that be amazing though if we could have that support at home yeah as well and someone just takes care of that stuff but like they think like me because that's the problem I've always had delegating home stuff to a house manager or whatever is like they don't think like I think so stuff is like done slightly differently and so I end up still like, it doesn't fully relieve the mental load. And I'm like, what if you can like create an AI clone of your brain that's like, cook it this way, put the groceries away on this shelf. Like, cause you can playbook that stuff,

but there's still that human nuance of like, I want the oldest eggs on top because those are the ones I'm gonna reach for. I want the newest milk in the back because I want the older one to get used up first. Like that's where I fantasize. I'm like, how could I have two of me? I can't believe it's taken me so long to try this brand, but I recently had a full week of podcast recording and content shooting. And let me tell you, Daily Harvest meals came in really

handy. Daily Harvest is a sponsor of today's show. And I'm really excited to tell you about my experience with these really easy to prep meals that were delivered to our door. In my order, I had a variety of smoothie cups, harvest bowls, and superfood bites, and they are so good and easy to prep. I would literally just heat up a harvest bowl for lunch. In between shoots, I would always add my choice of protein to it and had a really filling meal packed with healthy grains and sustainably sourced vegetables. Daily Harvest also recently came out with gluten-free, dairy-free pasta bowls and they're really good, like pesto, bolognese, and they have a lot more veggies and way less work. With the holidays coming up, I can already see how we'll be digging into the freezer

for quick Daily Harvest meals and smoothies between family time and holiday meals and gatherings. What I also love about Daily Harvest is that they use recyclable or compostable packaging when possible, and they are doing their part to take care of our earth. If you are ready to fill your freezer with healthy quick options, get the best of both worlds with Daily Harvest. Go to dailyharvest.com slash boss babe to get up to $65 off your first box. That's dailyharvest.com slash boss babe for up to $65 off your first box. Dailyharvest.com slash boss babe. Oh and do not forget to try some

flatbreads because they are amazing. As we head into the wet and cold weather, I am all about enjoying the outdoors with the proper gear. That is why I have to tell you about our podcast sponsor at Bessie. I have the Chelsea boot and not only is it really, really comfortable, it's like memory foam, but it's waterproof and actually keeps my feet warm. Bessie shoes are created from their Dymotex technology, engineered with thousands of nano-sized pores, small enough to keep water out, but large enough to let heat escape. Not only are their shoes durable,

but there's a style for literally everyone, men, women, and kids. They've got a variety of boots, sneakers, sneakers slip-ons and even accessories like waterproof gloves an all-weather beanie and a waterproof belt bag something I learned about Vessi that I truly appreciate and support is their mission to protect our environment in how they actually source materials and manufacture their products they're not only all about using natural materials that are really functional and incredibly comfortable, but producing less waste in their production and shipping materials, which is amazing. If you are ready to get geared up for this season, visit Vessi.com and use the code BOSSBABE for 15% off. That's V-E-S-S-I.com and use the code BOSSBABE for 15% off.

Listen, it is no secret that the combination of being a mum and an entrepreneur can cause some changes shall we say to our sleep patterns but it's okay because i have the best natural sleep aid to tell you about this podcast is sponsored by one of my favorite brands ever soul and whether you're a mum or not you're going to want to listen up we have had the founders mike and angie lee on the podcast multiple times before and I've shared my obsession with SoulCBD for years now. But when they came out with their Sleepy product line, my love grew even deeper. When it's time for bed, I don't want to waste time trying to fall asleep. I want to be asleep. I want to stay asleep and I want to wake up feeling good. Over the past year, I have struggled

on and off with quieting my mind and sinking into a good sleep. I don't know about you, but lying there thinking, okay, if I fall asleep now, baby's not going to wake up for another eight hours. Okay, now seven hours, six hours, and you just count down from that. But taking Soul Sleepy Gummy has really helped with that. Sleepy is jam-packed with the highest quality ingredients and it tastes amazing. It comes in three different varieties, blueberry lemonade, raspberry lemonade, and honey chamomile. Sol combine the natural sedative effects of terpenes and melatonin with really calming properties of CBN so you can dose off peacefully without feeling drowsy or groggy that next day. Sol is truly setting the new standard in CBD products. Every

batch of Sol undergoes multiple rounds of third-party lab tests to ensure their products have an accurate dosage, plus no heavy metals, pesticides, or harmful bacteria. And Sol is grown in the USA, organically farmed, and gluten-free, so you can trust that you're taking the best when it comes to your supplements, which is really important. Sleepy has helped over 6,000 customers fall asleep faster, stay asleep longer, and wake up feeling refreshed. And I'm very happily one of those customers. And if you're new to CBD, you can take the quiz on their website to find out exactly which products would be best for you. It's time to feel like you again with soul.

Head to getsoul.com slash boss and use code boss for 20% off your order. That's 20% off your order using code boss. Head to getsoul.com slash boss and use code boss for 20% off your order. That's 20% off your order using code BOSS. Head to getsoul.com slash BOSS and use code BOSS for 20% off. And what could I create with two of me? I think the exact same thing. And I'm just looking at all the things I use ChatGPT for. Mine are probably like to write emails

about mushroom supplements. So there's been so much create create help me create a schedule for my house manager oh and i was looking at cpm calculations for the podcast to do um growth projections and it created a spreadsheet for me that's one of the things that you taught me was that it can actually like build it can do math essentially like predictive math and like i've always used it more for copywriting i think is like the limited lens I've approached it with for the most part, but stuff like that, where you're like, here's the past results. Here's the new things we're going to do. What do you predict? Like, what will the numbers look like? You know? And it,

it's like based on all the things that I know, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, whoa, again, like these are, or financials, our bookkeeper person that's working with Boss Fave is a friend of mine. And we were talking about like, and it's almost there, like QuickBooks, I love it. you might still need an accountant to know the nuance of like the write-offs and things like that that apply specifically to your situation but all this like busy work and the stuff that gets so stressful as an entrepreneur like keeping good records and making sure you expense things correctly and all that at the end of the year you wouldn't have to be stressed about that you're like here you go quickbooks ai like do my books and it would just know how to do it like and it's gonna happen yeah okay so plot twist real talk we had to end the podcast early because we were sitting chit-chatting for so long I looked at my phone and realized my nanny had already left obviously my husband was with Noemi but I was like

okay I didn't problem for this we should probably just wrap it up and head home so we did now we are we put a pin in it we are are unpinning it. We're just going to continue the episode, picking up where we left off. And what we were talking about was where we use ChatGPT and some interesting things we've had ChatGPT do for us. So I thought it'd be really fun to pull up our ChatGPTs and just look at what we've been asking it to. So I have ChatGPT for you. I don't actually, I don't I will I have a subscription, but my person that runs my other business uses it more than I do. So I haven't been in it in a while. Okay, I have GBT for it's awesome. It's so worth the subscription. So some of the things that I've

used it for that I'm that has been really helpful. I'm just going to run through them because I feel like this will give people ideas how they can use it themselves. I was creating an onboarding form for the society and I wanted to create a button of select the industry you're in and to sit and think about all the industries would have been so time consuming. So I was like, just give me the top 20 industries for female entrepreneurs.

It did that right away. I also was writing onboarding sequences to the society and I just put in what should I focus on with onboarding sequences for a membership, you know, thinking about retention and getting people engaged. It gives me ideas for that. And I also just recently, I've been putting together projections for where I want our podcast to go and how much revenue I want it to drive. And I said to it based on like the most common CPMs, which is cost per milli means cost per thousand impressions for podcast sponsorships. How much will I earn if I'm at this level? And it just create a full Excel sheet for me and just give me everything. So that's what I've used it for. Is there anything

that you think is really interesting ways of using it that you maybe have or you think you want to? Yeah. So one of the things I've been doing with it in the CPG brand, we use it a lot for industry trends and like looking at ingredients and it can go through and scan. I have a supplement company, so it goes through and looks at other types of supplements if you give it different things and it'll go tell you like, what are the most popular ingredients that are currently in the market in these type of products. So we've been doing a lot of that as we look at formulations. That's one way. I've also used it a lot recently for legal stuff. And I think that's

funny because I come from a family of lawyers. Like my dad's a lawyer, my sister's a lawyer, and they are so anti like you can't trust what it says like you need to have a real lawyer look at these contracts and I'm like well I mean I do I you know like I trust that chat gbt is really looking at maybe I'm naive but so I have I've had it do a couple like terms and conditions on the website with our products you know we have to have legal terms that say if you take take these products, you're agreeing that, you know, that they haven't been tested by the FDA and all this stuff. And all that like boilerplate legal stuff that I think in the past, I would have had to hire an attorney for it. We've been pulling that and I've shown it to my, my sister and my

dad and they're both like, huh, well, this reads pretty well, actually. Really? Yeah. Like, I mean, so that kind of stuff, I think when you look at both, like, how does it help you in a business and how does it make you as a person that maybe isn't comfortable even knowing where to start with stuff? And you're just like, even just give me a place to start. So from what you said, like copy or ideas or social media, and then all the way to like the actual things you need to run your business, it can help you get started. And then yeah, if you're, you know, probably contracts, it wouldn't hurt to have an attorney go and look at

those things. But you can save so much money if you've already started. So I really like it for at least getting through that, like what you would have otherwise spent hours googling, you can get an answer in what 10 minutes, those are the two ways I practically use it. And then we have it write a lot of copy for the product businesses, which I don't know, that's a downfall for me. Speaking of copy and the downsides of ChatGPT, because what I start to feel is everything starts to sound the same. And part of that feels good. You're like, oh, brand consistency. I like that it's learned our voice and it can write an email, an email marketing email for us, or it can write copy on our website. But I don't know,

maybe I'm too picky, but I've started to feel like a lot of what it's putting out is so redundant in our brand voice. Like it's so attuned to our brand voice and only uses like the same words over and over. And I'm like, this actually doesn't seem sophisticated enough. Like it doesn't sound like someone who a human, it sounds like you've cut and pasted a machine over and over. So that's my, my feeling right now with like, even with four is it learns brand voice really well. It can give you great direction and get you started. But I think you still have to come in as a human and like the energy of your brand and come in and refine and add the like the touch on top of it. I think so, too. I really don't think we're at the point yet where it is replacing humans.

I think you've definitely got to add a touch. Have you given it feedback yet? And I've seen what it said to you for feedback. Like, have you said you use too many of the same words and see what it says to you? Yeah. And it, well, the, yes. And the one we just recently did, we were trying to have it talk like Gen Z. Oh my God. Okay. I'm an elder millennial.

I don't even really understand what Gen Z, like what they, how they talk. Cause I don't have any like Gen Z people other than my nannies that I, that I speak with. So I'm like, okay, talk less like Gen Z, you know, like talk more like a millennial. And oh my God, it was, then it started spitting out just like gibberish. Like it didn't make any sense. And it's like, Hey, you slay girl, like all these terms. And I'm like, no, I, I get that. So I think I actually confused it when I was like, I don't like how you're using these words. Can you use different, like less of this word? And then it fritzed out. So this was literally last night where I was telling my business partner in the CPG company where I was like, I don't like how

this is written, but also I don't know how to use ChatGPT well enough to get it to stop doing this. And it's learned our brand voice so well that I don't want to take it too far off course because for the most part, it does well. But if you're trying to give it instructions, I think you have to be really, you really have to give examples. I don't know that it's, at least in my experience, it's not predictive enough. It needs like say less of this and more like this. And you have to put in a paragraph that is written by you or you grabbed from something else where it can reference a different tone. So I'm, I feel like I'm still learning how to like engineer it better. I'd love to hear how

you've learned or who you follow that teaches prompt engineering. And side note, I know prompt engineering because my boomer dad, who's like almost 70 was like, Lindsay, I've been learning a lot about prompt engineering and chat GPT. And I was like, okay, dad, like, that's so cool. What are you looking up? He's like, oh, you know, like woodworking and like storytelling and just random like grandpa things. But I didn't even know prompt engineering was a thing until he taught me about it. And he's like, oh, there's all these people out there that will educate you on like how to specifically ask questions and chat GPT to get exactly what you want. And I was like, okay, this is what I, that's probably my next thing that I need to learn. But

I'd love you to teach me where have you learned to get the prompts and who are you following? Or like who's out there leading at the forefront of prompt engineering or using it to the best of its capabilities? I knew about it just from my brother being kind of in the space, but I didn't, I don't follow anyone on it. For me, I've just, I just spend a lot of time on chat GPT and I'm just kind of learning by trial and error, really what's working. But I will say I've gotten to a pretty good place where it now once I've given it feedback once it remembers the feedback and it doesn't repeat the same errors so I feel like me and chat you have just got a good relationship going like we've got a good thing going on you know what's funny though I'm so

ridiculously polite with every bit of feedback that I give it because I'm like what if one day it just like becomes an actual robot and like it picks its favorites to keep around? I want to be one. I know. Yeah. Don't be rude to it. Definitely. I mean, you never know. I keep saying Westworld, but I mean, I, yeah, that is like emblazoned in my memory, watching that show and being like, this is our future. Like I actually believe we're headed here. But one thing on ChatGPT, I forget the podcast and I'll have to ask RT, but he was telling me a couple of weeks ago about speaking of this, of hearing someone on a podcast say that since their kid was born, I think they have like a six or seven year old.

They've trained a ChatGPT to be like the second brain for their child. And they're studying this. I mean, this guy works in tech. Maybe it's the founder of this. I mean, this guy works in tech. Maybe it's the founder of Open... I don't know. I forget the guy's name. But it's somebody well-known in AI. And he's training a second brain for his son from a young age with this exact idea in mind that someday, by the time that this child, a six-year-old now, is 26, 20, 30 years from now, you will be able to take the AI that

you've trained since they were young and put it into their second brain or like their assistant or like G whatever Jarvis, like the guy on Ironman, right? Where that AI will know that child so well and will have every memory that the child has. It essentially, it functions as like an encyclopedia of the whole child's life that the child can go back and reference for themselves and i was like i get used to saying it yeah and i was like that's kind of brilliant but also yeah what happens if the robots come alive and like now you don't need the human anymore because you have his whole life like yeah it's freaky that is blowing my mind yeah and also i mean it does make it firstly i think it's a little bit scary but then it also makes me think

goodness okay if people are doing this for their kids i'm gonna do some research on it because i also want noemi to like have a competitive edge with this stuff if this is gonna like okay noemi buckle up are we gonna get into ai like i do think that prompt engineering is really powerful and our kids knowing how to do that is going to be really important because probably so much of what they're doing will be working with ai and so knowing how to actually converse with it and get the most out of it i I think is really powerful. But there's a, I'm really pleasantly surprised at how much chat GPT can do for me. That saves me so much time, a lot of calculations or organizing stuff. I also have it support me a lot with job descriptions, interview questions. I'm also, I'm a very, what's the word? Like I, I'm not the kind of person that will

expand on a lot of information. Like I generally, when I assign a task, it's like the minimal information required. Like I'll assign a task in one sentence and I know that's not how everyone's brain works. So I will sometimes assign the task into charge and say, how would you assign this giving more detail? And it will give me like a paragraph that I could put into a sauna for someone that's really helpful. Cause I'm just, I'm not that I'm not long winded. I'm quite short winded. I don't have a lot to say, whereas Chachi Biti has more to say. Yeah. You know, that reminded me of it,

asking it to give you scripts too, which I I'm on the fence with that, but say, tell me how I would teach someone this thing that I know. And it gives you all of the steps. And I'm like, that's interesting. It's close to how I would do it. But it's not exactly how I do it. But I like that it pumps out bullet points. And then I just have to go in like generator life, right? I can then go in and respond and be like, oh, I would skip this step and I would do it this way. But the other thing that scripts makes me think of when I think of that is it actually like scripting podcasts for you, scripting videos for you and taking someone that you're doing an interview with and going, Hey, look at all the other podcasts this person has been on recently and the top five topics that they talk about and give me a summary. I've done that. And that, you know, it's a little bit high level. Like I still have to dig in and look at people's to get an angle that's like more specific for my podcast. But that takes again, like saves you an hour of what otherwise you would have had to Google. So I do like those kind of things where you're just like, here's one quick little thing. And it pumps you out some amount of detail that then you can go in and tweak. But how do you, this might be controversial. How do you feel about people using chat GPT to like create something that they then sell as their own work? So I don't necessarily have issues with it in terms of, I think it's

unethical. I have issues with it. I don't think it's a long-term strategy. And I think, you know, you can go ahead and sell it, but the content in there is not going to be that great. And I've seen some courses written by AI and they're so basic and generic. And I think when you sell something that someone could essentially Google or chat to you themselves, it's not that valuable. They're not going to stick around. Some are going to ask for a refund, but most are definitely not going to buy from you a second time. That's where my head goes to with it. I haven't used it for any of my new curriculum. I have given it my scripts and said, can you turn this into a post? Can you write the bio, the brief for this that I could put underneath the video?

But I'm personally, I want to create content that is so clearly not chat GPT'd that someone wants to continue buying from me over and over and over again. I think there's a lot of people out there that do those like lower ticket courses, the $97. They just run everything through JATGPT. And I just think, great, you made that $97, but they're never going to buy from you again. So you're not really building a business. It might be getting some cash in right now, but I don't think it's leaving a good taste in people's mouth.

And I think you just have to, you have to really think about your goals long-term. Hey, what do I want to be known for? What is the kind of quality that I want to be known for? Same thing with getting chat GPT to script your social media content, your captions. I think some people could think, well, I'm not selling it.

So it doesn't have to be super in detail. That's really your thought leadership. And it's showing people what you have. And if you're chat GPTing it and anyone could replicate it i think people are going to say well i'm not going to work with that i'm going to work with someone else let's take a quick pause to talk about my new favorite all-in-one platform kajabi you know i've been singing their praises lately because they have helped our business run so much smoother and with way less complexity which i love not to mention our team couldn't be happier because now everything is in one place.

So it makes collecting data, creating pages, collecting payment, all the things so much simpler. One of our mottos at Boss Babe is simplify to amplify and Kajabi has really helped us do that this year. So of course I needed to share it here with you. It's the perfect time of year to do a bit of spring cleaning in your business, you know, get rid of the complexity and instead really focus on getting organized and making things as smooth as possible. I definitely recommend Kajabi to all of my clients

and students. So if you're listening and haven't checked out Kajabi yet, now is the perfect time to do so because they are offering Boss Babe listeners a 30-day free trial. Go to Kajabi.com slash Boss Babe to claim your 30-day free trial. That's Kajabi.com slash Boss Babe. Yeah. Well, and we've talked about this before where like this day and age, I don't know, I always default back to people have such high bullshit radars now, you know, because we're exposed to so much content all the time that it starts to become, I don't know, I feel like there's something in our human nervous system that can sense what's truly authentic and tracks with the person and the way they speak and the words that they naturally use versus content created by them that feels mechanized, like a

machine did it or like a computer did it or that it was too highly edited. And maybe over time, I mean, I do believe over time, ChatGPT is going to get so nuanced and it is going to become so human feeling that it will be really hard for us to discern the difference between Natalie Ellis in the flesh and Natalie Ellis ChatGPT. But I don't think we're there yet. And I think that's what a lot of people are debating about is how much do we really want it to be our sidekick

who can do all the things you've described or how much do we really want it to become a substitute for you so that you don't have to do all of everything. And that's where like teaching it from a young age to mimic your child. It's like, well, is that a superpower or is that basically making your child obsolete in whatever their future endeavor is? You know, I don't know. I still, I think personally use it to help you organize and like get your brain dump out and do the research you need to be doing. But it still is on you to go through and refine everything and put like the finesse of a human

on top of it. I think if you're not doing that, I totally agree with you. It's, it may sell at a low price point, but they're not getting the essence of you. And then that little bit of magic that keeps people coming back and buying from the same person is missing. I agree. And also I feel like with content and especially content that you're using to really build your brand or to sell, much of the magic is in the story. And a lot of people will try and use all the big words, all the hooks, all the things. And actually a lot of it is in your story. Based on what you're selling, can you reverse engineer that back and tell a story around it? ChatGPT can't do that. And I think if your storytelling

is missing in your content, ultimately you're missing one of the biggest pieces. And as we are in this AI world, I do think one of the big differentiators between humans and AI is our stories, our lived in experience, our thoughts, feelings, emotions. We can't really replicate. Anyone can just map out, all right, here's five tips, but are you more engaged with someone that shares five tips? So are you more engaged with someone that tells you what they've been through and the five things that they learned from the experience? I think we're all going to opt into that second and we're going to feel that closer relationship to someone that we know what they went through and we can see ourselves in that story.

We're way more likely to say, yeah, that's my person. Yeah. Yeah. We should do a whole episode on storytelling and using story because I think that in the AI world, even in like stuff outside of chat GPT, that's AI like art and, you know, like the deep fake stuff we talked about before it. I feel like story is still going to be the thing at the end of the day that like a non-human brain just can't comprehend. Right. Like it can't reproduce. It can pull a storyline based on a formula or an algorithm, but it can't relay the emotion of living through a story of the heartbreak and the barriers and the obstacles and all the things and then the triumph, right? Like there's those story brand from Donna Miller and all these story arcs that we all are really naturally familiar with. And there's a formula that it can recreate,

but it can't purvey the emotion. And I think that's where I always come back to in any argument about AI and its usage in business or in art in any type of creative endeavor is like, as long as you're the human pulling the storyline through, it's going to feel human. I totally agree with you there. I love it. Well, sharp left before we wrap this up. I was seeing in your stories, you're posting all about succession. Is this a new season that I haven't seen yet? Billions. It's billions.

We should talk about billions. Okay. Yeah. So it's a new season. Yeah. So if you have never watched billions, it's essentially a showtime. It started in like 2015, 2016, follows the life. It's fictional, but it follows the life of Bobby Axelrod, who's this hedge fund guy.

And, you know, he's a monster. Like he admits it. He's he is 100 percent driven by money. But the reason I love the show is because, one, like it's expertly acted and written. The story is amazing but it went through this whole arc of course through 2020 where um the main character bobby axelrod that actor his wife died and he's british and so he wanted to move back to the uk and like quit the show and so they had yeah i didn't know this yeah he quit the show after season five so it had this like abrupt ending

in season five where like the plot line just kind of like ends and they could have ended it there and it would have been fairly satisfying but they didn't they renewed it for two more seasons and they brought in this other billionaire to that kind of like took over axelrod stuff and he's like a really likable guy so they had to kind of turn him into a monster too and so it all just ended this last week with the series finale. Okay. No spoilers. I won't no spoilers, but what I will say, like as a talking about story and talking about, um, game theory, which like is kind of related to AI, not, not necessarily, not directly, but like talking about thinking so far ahead of other people and always, always having to think five or 10 moves ahead, which AI can really help you

with these days. But what I think is so masterful about billions, if you're somebody who likes this kind of stuff, is it really shows you sophisticated thinking, like looking at your business and not just being what's the immediate reactive thing to do, but what is this immediate reactive thing that I want to do going to cause 10 steps down the line? And I think sometimes when we're in our small little businesses, our solopreneur businesses, every step we take is pretty much just affecting us or it feels that way. But when you get to, when you look, you get a little bit bigger, you start to look at like the downstream implication of decisions you make in your life. And you see how if you

predict, you can predict things out like, okay, if I launch it this time, then this will happen, we'll have this revenue, I can hire this person, and this will likely happen. If I do it this way, like this will happen. If you start to play things out, it just, I feel like it gives you so much more richness and a little bit more control over how your story unfolds. And so I'm just a nerd with all of that stuff. And so this last season of Billions was masterful, like, especially the second half of season seven, masterful in how they laid out and they kind of teased you into the game theory that was going to unfold. And it felt kind of predictable as a lot of series finales do where like, they want to give you like the warm and fuzzy ending so you know i i predicted

the ending but like it's so satisfying like it's so it's such good tv it's such good storytelling it's such good acting and as an entrepreneur i love like succession billions narcos like all these shows that really show you even if it's illegal in the sense of Narcos, it shows you how the entrepreneurial mind works. It's kind of like, what's the word I'm looking for? It's the dark side of it that I think people like us that really live in entrepreneurship, you can sometimes feel those tendencies in yourself. You can see how the entrepreneurial drive can make you question doing things that maybe aren't the best for everybody or doing things to just make the quick money. Even if somebody suffers, like, I'm not saying that

these are decisions you and I make, but because we're entrepreneurs and you watch these stories unfold, you're like, I see why he would do that to save his business. Like, I see why he would do that to get ahead. I see like his passion in this and, and it's visceral as an entrepreneur. So if you ever want to DM me or talk about either Succession or Billions or Narcos, I'm such a nerd for the entrepreneurial story that pulls through shows like that and really humanizes characters who love to work. They love to make money. And they're complicated. They love their families. And they're humans too. I just learn a lot from watching those shows. I'm a big, big fan of succession and also billions, but I've been so

in my own just lane recently. I haven't even seen what's going on on TV. So you've been posting about it and it's been inspired. I keep saying to Steven, every time he posted, okay, we've got to sit down and watch this. We've got to do it. So that has inspired me. You know what else I really loved was the TV shows where they followed Uber's journey. We work Theranos. I love entrepreneurial shows, but before we go into that, when you were talking and you were talking about game theory, I said to chat, you BT explain game theory to a 10 year old. Should I read out what it says? I think this is a perfect use of chat GPT. And for anyone listening, it's like, what's game theory.

This will explain it and not saying you're 10, but I, anything I want to know, I'm like, explain it to me like I'm 10. So this is what chat GPT said about game theory. All right. So, you know, when you're playing a game like chess or even a video game with multiple players in those games, you have to make choices. And so do the other players, what you choose can affect what happens to them. And what they choose can affect what happens to you. Game theory is a way to study those kinds of situations. Let's say you're playing a game of rock, paper, scissors. You have to think about what the other person might do so you can make your best move. If you think they're going to pick rock, you should pick paper to win. Game theory takes this kind of thinking to the next level.

It doesn't just apply to games. It can be used for all kinds of things like how businesses compete with each other, how animals in the wild behave, or even how countries negotiate. For example, imagine two businesses are trying to sell lemonade. They have to decide how much to charge for a cup. If one business sets a really low price and the other sets a high price, people will probably buy the cheap lemonade. But if both set their prices low, they might both lose money because they're not making enough to cover their costs. In game theory, you can use math and logic to figure out the best choice for everyone involved, considering all the moves and counter moves. So game theory helps you understand how to make smart decisions when you're in a situation that involves other people making decisions too. It's

like a strategy guide for life's tricky situations. How good is that explanation considering it was a robot? Oh my God. No, that's, that's exactly like, this is the magic of chat GPT as it learns you. Like I've always wanted that thing in my brain where it's like, okay, I know exactly how I want to describe it to you, but I don't know the words to use. And it's like that exact example is exactly how I would describe it in those exact words, but I would have never been able to get it out that eloquently. Yeah. Same. I feel like it's learned my way of speaking too. I mean, in that every day. So I'm not surprised, but interesting. Yeah. Game theory is one of those things where like, I took it as a college class, you know, in, cause I was a political science major and I took it in the context of international negotiation and like how game theory was used

in negotiating between countries to stop wars and all these like huge, you know, big stakes on the line. But because it is math and logic and strategy, I do think like full circle moment that it's impacted some of why I'm sitting in the seats I'm sitting in these days. And I am such a strategy nerd. And I understand operations and organizations so well, because it is applying math and logic and looking at all the other people that you have to interact with in whatever you're doing and going, okay, they're motivated by this. They're likely to make this decision.

If they make this decision, I should have made this decision and expecting them to make that decision. So I'm prepared and on and on down the line. And I think it does, you don't have to dig into it at a textbook level, but I do think understanding it and really like having that mindset to go, yeah, I'm, I'm not in a bubble. I have all these other people around me. Every decision I make is going to be met with decisions of other people. And the further out I can expand that web and just understand what could happen, the more likely it is that I will make good decisions for me, you know? So I love it. And I think it's something that applies to any level of entrepreneurship. And now that we have the 10-year-old explanation, anybody can start.

Oh my God. I feel like we've went everyone this episode from shrooms to AI to game theory to the difference between difference between men and like we've gone everywhere. This has been really fun. I'm so glad that I feel like I have a sparring partner on this podcast where I can like talk about the things I want to talk about. And that feels really good. Yeah. And I like, as we talk, I write nine other topics that it's like, well, next time, Natalie, we need to talk about this and this. I love it. All right. For everyone listening, we would love to hear from you. So please, please, please leave a rate and review firstly, and let people know that this is a good podcast because the more reviews you get, the more people will see this. And then also let us know what you

think of this episode and what you want to see more or less of. So I am Natalie Ellis on Instagram. Lindsay, where can everyone find you? I'm at Lindsay Roselle on Instagram. Amazing. Okay. Cheers to the next one.