the bossbabe podcast - 342. The Key to Winning In Any Economy + Season of Business with Lori Harder and Lindsey Schwartz

Episode Date: December 19, 2023

“Winter” seasons of business are inevitable. Lori Harder, Lindsey Schwartz, and I recently hosted a live podcast together in Austin. We had so much fun and the conversation also got deep and vulnerable. We all shared personal challenges we’ve faced these last few years in our lives and businesses, as well as the support system and the strategies that got us through it. Plus, I share how you should price and position your offers to make sales in today's economy. HIGHLIGHTS We get vulnerable about business challenges we’ve personally faced + action we wish we had taken sooner How to pivot + create offers that will work in today’s economy  The best thing to focus on right now based on your current season of business The truth about the entrepreneurial journey and what it takes to create long term success How to know if and when to pivot an offer (or even a business) that isn’t working  LINKS Join The Société: The Place to Build A Freedom-Based Business FOLLOW bossbabe: @bossbabe.inc Natalie Ellis: @iamnatalie Lori Harder: @loriharder Lindsey Schwartz: @llindseyschwartz

For me, I'm a doer. I like to get up in the morning and just get going. And I'll do way more when I'm in a winter season, when I feel anxious, when things aren't going to plan. My solution is like, well, if I do more, you know, if I just keep busy, I'll get through it. And I think the gaslighting myself would come from telling myself that I was feeling fine when I actually wasn't. And the thing that helped me the most was protecting my peace beyond anything else. Hi everybody! Hi! Look how legit these are. This is legit guys. I know I feel really legit. We've never had this before i haven't i had

it yesterday for the first time and i was like i'm a real podcaster now yeah actually we arrived yes yeah just saying this is so funny it's like just a room full of all of our friends so hi everyone who we're friends with this is so fun um we were so excited to come to Austin. We actually had such a good time with Natalie at our event in Arizona that when we knew we were coming to Austin, Lindsay and I to do podcasting, we're like, should we just honestly repeat it? Because that was the most fun podcast I think that we've gotten the chance to do. So it really was. And I feel like we were dissecting it in the green room.

We're just calling it the green room. I think what it was is like we all are just those type of people who are willing to just be super honest and raw and real because I don't know about anyone else but has anyone had like a year that has kind of put you through the ringer in one way or another okay thank God and we thought really unpack that tonight and talk about what it looks like in business to be in different seasons. Because the truth is we're not supposed to be always on, always shining, always hustling, always having our moment in the spotlight. It's actually not sustainable. So for anyone who has felt like you've been maybe

hibernating like a squirrel, you're stacking nuts away. Troll mode. Yes. After the Powerhouse Women event this year, we had this trending hashtag, hashtag troll mode, which is let me let me just bring you up to speed on what that means. So I think I said from stage, I said, this looks really glamorous now, but wait until tomorrow. I will look like a troll who lives under a bridge and tells riddles. You know, it's like amazing how you can go from glam to troll mode real fast. Troll mode's real important, though. It's so important. It's the only way we're here today. So if tomorrow you're taking a troll mode day, you can tag us in that. But as we were kind of unpacking the seasons in business, it's so easy to parallel this

with the seasons in life, right? In the season. I'm like weather. The seasons in weather. In weather. The seasons. The seasons of the year. Now, I live in Phoenix where there are actually not seasons.

There really are. It's a time warp. But other places, there are seasons and it's really purposeful, right? So you have your summer that we just came out of. Summer is like that time you're shining, you're bright. But summer isn't always the time that you're harvesting. That comes later, right? That comes after you've shown up, you've shared your gifts, you're sharing your message. Autumn comes around and then that's when we harvest right before we go into winter. And winter is that time of regeneration. It's a time of hibernation so that we can be ready to come back around in that spring season, plant seeds, and realize that there's a purpose for each season. And if we expect ourselves to be in one season all year round, it's not sustainable. I think that's where we find ourselves in burnout. And what can be tricky is that sometimes we're supposed to be in a winter season, but we're looking online at everyone who's in their summer or their spring

and thinking that we need to be doing that too. So I feel like a great place to start could be just to share maybe from like real life where we each are right now if you were to give a season to it or even if you want to give context to where you've been that has brought you to where you are right now because I know for sure for all of us we've been through all of them probably in the last the last few months soie you want to start sure but first this belt is ruining my life so i was thinking about that i might let's just loosen things i literally was like i'm getting dizzy i think it's cutting off my blood supply okay um seasons yeah i feel so much better now if anybody else needs to do it please everybody everybody loosen your belt

i just want my stretchy fabric from the get-go. You're so smart. Yeah, I planned well. Okay, so the season that I'm in right now, I feel like I am going into a summer season. Yeah, you are. Yes, I'm in summer finally. Do you mean you're glowing?

I'm glowing. Like you're glowing? But that is only, I think this is probably the most excited, most energized, most fulfilled I've felt in a very long time. And I know that I can attribute that to a very long winter season. And there were points in this winter season where it's interesting because even in the worst winter, like I am from upper Michigan, you guys, like record setting snowfall, like some of the worst winters in the U.S. But even in the winter season there, there were still really beautiful, bright, sunny days. And that really describes how winter feels sometimes, right? Like you're like, no, it's not so bad. I'm not crying today because the sun's out. And then the next day you're like, why is it

still here? Like I have three months left, right? That's what it feels like. And I just remember in this season and I really think, according to the has been in that where it's like, you almost don't know if you're ever going to feel happy again, like a true happiness. And so this conversation was so important for us tonight because of that, because when you're in it, you forget. And you have to get really, really grateful for those sunny days and try to find them and also try to create them when you're in those winters. But because of that winter and because of that restoration that happens during winter, right, you look out and it's bleak and it's gray, there's no color. But underneath, it's actually a lot of rest and regeneration for those plants, for those trees, for all of those things so that they can come back in full bloom. And so I always think that like even when it's winter and you feel like nothing's happening

or you feel it's very bleak, there's so much happening and you have to trust it it's just such a shedding process in order to come back a new version of you because we're never just like putting the new versions of us in my personal opinion like over the top of it it's like you are shedding the old version and you have to lose things and you have to kind of lose yourself in order to come back totally renewed so i have definitely been in that winter season now coming into summer. And I got really amazing answers from winter, but also asking really important questions in winter. You know, I think it wasn't until I started really asking those questions like, is this really right? Or am I doing something because I'm under pressure or because I feel obligated? Is this truly right for me? Is this truly right for my community? Are my numbers actually really trying to show me something? And am I being stubborn because I think I just need to push, push, push through? Or could there be something else? And there's that fine line, though, when you're in the winter season where it's like giving up or quitting or pushing. And there's no clear answer to that. It's an everyday Q&A

to yourself. So I can say that now I've come out on the other side after making some really tough decisions that, you know, a question that I've used for people and that I use on myself that I used during that season was, what am I pretending not to know? And that was a hard one for me and I was like I'm pretending not to know that this isn't going to work and I was just in full denial of numbers of what what that could look like to launch what my skill sets were even good at I would like could never see the path or the outcome and that's a big sign you guys if after years you just can't see the path or the outcome clearly, there's reasons for that. It's because that's really important for people to know. If anyone isn't familiar with the story of why you get to proudly say that you're heading into summer, it came on the heels of making some really, really tough decisions that we'll definitely circle back to.

Yes. And thank you for translating because I leave a lot out. No, that was good. That was really good. I'm just being cryptically, everybody. Well, and you know, when you're with friends and you're getting to walk through these different seasons with them, it's important to I think for us to all anchor in with each other. Just like when I look at the season that you're in right now, I want people to know just how much went in behind the scenes for you to

have the summer and the amazing harvest that you're going to have. So we'll get into that a little bit more. But Natalie, what about for you? Like current season or even just what this year has been like for you? I want to copy and paste so much. Yes. I feel like I'm in I'm trying to think of it. I feel like I'm in spring moving into summer, like I'm really in the season where the momentum is behind me. And it was I was having conversation my husband earlier and I was saying to him I feel like myself period not like myself again I feel like myself period like the self I haven't been in a really long time and almost like I feel more myself than I've ever been and I would say the last I don't know two years have been so challenging

and I feel like it was winter with like the smallest summer and then I'm back in I'm back in and every time I felt like I was finally getting my energy my momentum clarity back I felt like I was pulled back under again and it was almost like I was just drowning behind it and I couldn't see another way forward and I can say the last how many months six months at least have just felt like every week gets better and better and better every single week and the last couple of months have just been like you know when you put all the work in behind the scenes and you're you're doing the work but you're not seeing it like you're harvesting but ain't anything harvesting like just dirt yeah so I was like just harvesting and nothing was coming of it and I feel like the last couple months actually it's all started to come into bloom and it feels so good to have trusted myself throughout this process because there's so many

times that I was like I don't know about this like did I make the right decision like have I just really fucked myself over here like what am I doing and actually I feel so happy right now and I'm so excited about what I'm moving into and it feels like that momentum's beginning again and same thing I just think it's so important to talk about it because it can feel like you're you're like but I'm in a harvest season but there's literally nothing harvesting and i think it's important to acknowledge that and it can feel very wintry it can feel really dark and hard and challenging but you've got to keep harvesting it you've got to keep going if you know like when when you knew you were you made the decision to get on the path you're on now like it still isn't an easy process it's still not this linear process but it feels different like someone asked me yesterday how do you know when you're in

alignment is it when everything flows and is easy i'm like fuck no like it's not like something worth having is not always easy but you know you feel it deep down in your heart and your soul and your bones that it's the right decision and it's very easy to know that whereas when you're doing something that feels very very challenging and you know it's like what's the thing i'm afraid to admit out loud it's like this isn't meant for me this isn't right for me and there's a difference and we all know there's like no guru that can tell us the answer to that and it feels really good that even during all those all that harvesting of nothing i knew deep down i was doing the right thing like no matter what my like ego mind and self-doubt and everything was saying i knew deep down i was doing the right thing so

yeah i'm coming i would say spring summer like that new collection yes it's coming coming soon that new bag yeah that's how i feel i and i feel so excited about it which also seems so interesting moving into an actual winter isn't that funny i? I don't think I'm going to be resting that much. It's your own personal summer. Yeah, it's my own personal one. It feels really good. Just outside in the snow in a bikini. Oh yeah.

Oh yeah. I want that content. Yeah. That's what I want from you. Okay. Interesting as I'm listening to both of you talk about this and I think what you said, Natalie,

is so good because I think to the outside world, it probably looks very much like I'm either in summer or autumn. Our big event is in August. We have our big launch. We had our biggest launch ever, like blew our numbers out of the water. And personally, I'm in very deep in winter. I'm very deep in a transformation journey where I can't, I can

actually, I can keep going the way that I've been going. But I also was getting to the point where I'm frustrated that things aren't moving the way that I feel they're supposed to be because I was ignoring the personal transformation that I think I just, I could tell I needed to go through, but I didn't know what it was yet. So it took coming out of that busy, active season. So you can still I love how you acknowledge you can still be producing. You can still be harvesting. It doesn't mean necessarily that you actually go into hibernation and hide because I still have bills to pay.

Exactly. But even on that side, I had the best launch ever and I feel the most financially unstable that I've ever felt. We took some huge risks this year and pushed ourselves to the limit. And I think they're smart risks, but most entrepreneurs don't want to tell you that they have smaller growth this year than they had the year before. You know, we made some really bold decisions. I was telling the girls in the back when we were prepping, I've also been in a pruning season. So I don't know when I have known nothing about gardening. We actually talked about this on the last podcast we did together. We actually talked more about trimming a bush than pruning. So I've been trimming bushes, pruning and getting so much intuition, so many intuitive nudges to cut back on things, things that on paper look like they're going really well. And that feels scary, especially when now I have a team to support and I I'm financially supporting my household right now as my husband launches a business. So I just want to be really honest about what this season looks like, because this will be the catalyst for whatever summer or spring, whatever else is my bikini

season that's coming afterward. But right now, I am the most uncomfortable I've ever been financially, physically. I feel like I've been dealing with some really deep negative self-talk that almost had to come to the surface so I could see how much energy I was wasting by just allowing that to go on in the background and I'm just really proud to of myself for being willing to sit in this season because it's been really uncomfortable and how cool is it i think the thing that keeps me going is having people who are in other seasons because it reminds me of what's on the other side and just i mean laurie and i had so many of those conversations while you were going through your journey too of just what it what it takes to support yourself. So maybe

let's talk about that in your seasons that have felt wintry. It felt a little brisk. What does it look like to support yourself in those seasons? Oh, God, it's always going to look different because it's it's so unique to you and whatever time you're going through or if you're a mom or if you need more space, if you need more rest. For me, it was kind of a. I mean, a lot of times I just would black out, really. I'm trying to think some days when you're just you don't even have any energy to take care of yourself. And it just I got into a really bad cycle of of not taking care of myself. And now I

think I'm learning to be the last year of like that winter season is when I became really aware of, whoa, girl, like no one is coming to save you and no one's coming to take care of you. And so I just observed how much started slipping in my life and how much joy I was like leaving on the table. I have a great life. I have an incredible husband. And I know that if I'm not taking care of myself, I can't even be present for the things that I have that are great in my life. So now, you know, I've always had decent practices throughout, you know, the last 15 years. But I'll say that just different things like eating well for the day so that I feel good so that my mood is good that really slipped I was drinking way too much wine

because I was depressed and I was anxious and that started a cycle of like drinking more wine which caused me to wake up every single night in the middle of the night and so that was one of the things that I had to like put an end to pretty quickly is just like Monday through Friday, I have to take care of myself and not have wine and eat something better for myself because my anxiety flares up around food and alcohol. Anybody else like if you're in an anxious time in your life a.m. after having even just one glass of wine. But when you're in it, it's like you really got to kind of watch the whole thing where I was like, how long are you willing to do this? How much longer are you going to be sick and tired of making yourself feel horrible and be anxious and feel super depressed and like you can't handle what you're doing? And I think that it took a couple things because I couldn't it's like I couldn't stop the cycle. It actually took doing different things. It took looking at the things in my life that weren't aligned and going, I think these simultaneously have to go while I try to fix this. Because it was like, yeah, I could try to stop drinking wine, but then I go do the things that aren't

aligned and that I hate. And it's just going to drive me back to the wine and the bad food. So it really is. It's a pruning. When you want to be in bikini season, you have to trim. So I was like pruning it all back of what it was not serving me anymore and to be really honest like even who wasn't serving me like I had some family members that I was like I have to watch I have to set some more boundaries and I have to figure this out and some friends and I needed to be around people who were just at a higher energy at that point so even if I loved other people I didn't have the energy to pull people up. So I had to get really selfish. So it may have looked, I'm sure it looks selfish to some people at a certain point, but man, you got to go do that and cut people off who are draining you

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why can't we have it faster I hate it I had a guest on my podcast yesterday who actually summed it up in such a perfect way and she was talking about how she would gaslight herself and I really recognized that and realized whenever I am in that season or have been in that season whenever I gaslight myself the problem gets worse so feelings like for me I'm a doer I like to get up in the morning and just get going and I'll do way more when I'm in a winter season when I feel anxious when things aren't going to plan my solution is like well if I do more you know if I just keep busy I'll get through it and I think the gaslighting myself would come from telling myself that I was feeling fine when I actually wasn't and just kind of

powering through it and just saying you know it's just another week it's just gonna be this it's just gonna be that and the thing that helped me the most I mean through my winter season the thing that helped me the most was protecting my peace beyond anything else and so one thing that really came clear to me is we have so many buckets in our lives and we cannot expect to pour into every single one of them at all times otherwise we're not only just setting ourselves up to fail but we're setting other people up to be let down by us and I remember having a conversation with a friend it was early this year and she'd asked me to be an affiliate for her launch and I just I felt bad saying no so I was like yeah sure and I knew I had no business saying yes I had no capacity even to take care of my own business never mind to be supporting anyone else that was no reflection on how I felt about her I just didn't and I said yes because I thought well I'm

a friend I should do it and ultimately I couldn't fulfill on that I was exhausted I didn't have the time space I knew it wasn't the right thing to be doing and I felt so bad about saying yes and then rescinding it I ended up shooting her a quick voice note being like i really can't support you i'm just i'm not feeling like i have capacity for it and she called me and she just called me out and she was like you should never have said yes if you knew you couldn't have done it because all you're doing is setting yourself up to feel really down and like a failure and you're setting me up to be let down and she just called me forward in that moment we had such a beautiful conversation around it because i just broke down and she was like thank you for finally letting me see you because by you just saying yes and carrying on with it i don't know

what you're going through but on that conversation i just let it rip and i just told her all the things that were going on for me and firstly it brought us closer and i think having those friends is incredibly important you want to have friends that that stand for themselves and they don't make it about you she didn't make it about me being a bad person she didn't make it about me being in the wrong she just made it about hey probably shouldn't have done that and let's have a conversation about it let's use this as an opportunity to grow closer and so more of those friendships that feel safe during those seasons that you can really have those conversations with and not gaslighting yourself because I was just telling myself I was okay therefore telling others

around me I was okay and I just wasn't and so a lot of that and when I'm being honest with myself I'm more honest about what I can give attention to and what I can't. I think when you do acknowledge that, like, okay, right now is a season of work and being a wife and motherhood. And that's kind of where I'm pouring all my energy right now. And that might mean, it doesn't mean that I'm disregarding my friends, but it might mean I'm saying no to more things. It might mean that I'm saying no to kind of the business things that aren't moving the needle. I'm not going to speak at that event. I'm not going to go on that person's podcast. I'm not going to be an affiliate for that person. Like that's just not serving me or where I'm at right now. I might not be flying home to

visit family as much, whatever it is. If you can acknowledge that and actually be intentional about the buckets you are filling, I think you feel less guilt because when you feel like you have these competing desires, like, like okay I really want to be the best mother and wife and business owner and at the same time I want to be the best friend and sister and I want to be the best co-worker and all the things you feel all that guilt whereas if you're like right now in the season this is the thing I'm focused on and this is what I'm not focused on that guilt goes away because you're not telling yourself you should be doing anything different to what you're currently doing.

And so not saying I've got it down, I have definitely not perfected this, but I'm now getting in the awareness of it where I can catch myself in that guilt, in that spiral. I even reached out to friends a couple of weeks ago and I was like, I feel like a really shit friend right now. And then as soon as I did that, firstly, I just loved that I did it

because I think it brought us all closer to have that conversation but then secondly it showed me ah that's because I'm I'm not investing there because I feel really stretched but I'm telling myself I should be so how can I figure this out so that's been really helpful for me because the less I feel conflicted inside to the happier I am. The happier I am and the more that is reflected, I think helps you get through those seasons in a way that feels better. Yeah, that's such permission for me. Even in the last week, I was telling Lori

that I feel like I've been pushed to a limit of looking at some things that either are gonna shift or I'm just gonna break under the weight of this pressure I'm putting on myself. And I was at this event over the weekend and there was I was sitting next to a friend and she was showing up in the way she always would. And just like, how are you? How's like Elliot's business going? And I felt myself. It was. Have you ever had that moment where you feel something screaming on the inside like, I'm not fucking good, OK? I'm not OK. I'm not OK. And then I felt myself going. Now, I don't actually know that that was the right time or place to have

the conversation that I really wanted to have. But it was like I could hear myself not allowing someone to support me. I could feel myself not wanting to be not OK, especially and normally I would just cancel on the event. But I was like committed to going to this event and then thought I had to show up as my summer Lindsay when that day especially just was not how I was feeling. And afterward, even just in the last couple of days, everything you're saying, like noticing that I'm just craving sharing with people close to me so that they know just even how I'm feeling. And I was talking with my mentor right now and she said, well, what's the resistance to that? Because anyone else find yourself resistant to like you don't really want to talk about it when you're not OK? Because most of us are used to being OK and we're used to being really on fire and

productive and immediately I was like I don't want someone to try and fix it and I just realized like I'm not even allowing myself to be supported because I'm not putting boundaries around how I'm having that conversation because I have girlfriends they're sitting right in this room who I can say I just want to share where I'm at and I actually Because I have girlfriends, they're sitting right in this room who I can say, I just want to share where I'm at and I actually don't want any advice right now. I just want space holding. And so doing that even over the last couple of days

felt so nurturing, so supportive because that was the piece that I wasn't doing. And right now I'm in a season where I kept saying, I feel like I'm just holding so much. I'm holding it together for my husband who's feeling like super vulnerable and he's launching a new business and he's stretching himself. So I felt like I had to be strong for him when that is not even like the dynamic that works for us. He's so supportive of me when I wasn't even letting him. So for anyone who finds themselves in a wintry season, you're like hunkered down under the blanket with some hot cocoa in your, you know, you just need to really nurture your soul.

My tendency in winter is to want to hibernate alone. And it's so lonely lonely and that's not actually what i need i need like a buddy in the the bear den with me are you she was looking at me because we're staying together yes so is this an invitation for tonight i was actually gonna text you i took a nap right before this and the beds are super comfortable you wanted me to so if yours isn't comfortable you can yeah we can spoon also do you or do you not want advice tonight no okay you have to know it depends what i think is great though is often a lot of people are in it with us and we have no idea because we're not even willing to open up like i remember texting that to my friendship group and you know you're not gonna kind of of wins you're like oh i'm just gonna say it anyway and i'm like feeling like a mess and no one tried to fix it in fact it was just like

so many echoes of oh my god i've been feeling the same way me too me too and it was none of us had the solution but it was just like it sometimes just takes one person to just see exactly how they're feeling and then everyone else might feel comfortable saying the same thing because i think as strong women you attract strong women and we're so used to being strong that often we forget that there's another way and especially in female friendships the thing i love about female friendships i love our men they're incredible but they do love fixing things you've got to fix everything whereas i think female friendships when you have those really safe female friendships they're so good at just listening and just offering a hug or something like that and it's it's really nice to have that and i found for

for myself because i being vulnerable in my friendships just didn't come very naturally to me like same thing i'm very much like a lone wolf often like i like to just deal with things and then I present oh here's what's been happening and people like wait what yeah it's got like a neat tidy bow on it and that's just that's just me as a processor yeah but my work has been opening up and sharing hey I don't really want advice I like to process on my own but I also do want to let you know where I'm at and just I think it just allows people to love you even more yeah because they see more of you and they're like oh my god I love you even more for sharing this and I know for me whenever any

of my friends vulnerably share where they're at I feel like my heart just expands to them even more and I'm like I didn't know I could love you more and I do and like and it's so nice to just see other people's humanness and reminder that oh god we really are just like trying our best out here especially in this space i think especially in this world of entrepreneurship how many of you in the room are entrepreneurs pretty much everybody i kind of figured great or work for entrepreneurs or yes you know it's we were talking in the i want to say backstage backstage. Make it sound bigger for the listeners. Yeah, let's call it backstage because there are thousands of people in here. The crowd is wild.

We're literally like thousands. Are they chanting our names? Yeah, they were. They can add that in post production. Thank you. But we were talking and I forgot what we were talking about backstage. It'll come back. It'll come back. But I think back. But I think this is the industry that we're in, the industry that we're in and feeling. Thank you. or when things feel tougher because it starts to feel like, is that me admitting that maybe my stuff isn't great, especially if you coach other people?

Or Natalie, you were saying that just about how it is a different economy. It's a different economy now. So if your business feels different now or if you are having trouble getting traction in the same ways that you used to, we quite literally in the last three years have gone through several lifetimes. And in every business that I'm in, we own real estate in our real estate business. Everything has changed. So why would I think it's any different for my my other businesses that everything that worked three years ago doesn't necessarily work right now? And it doesn't mean that I suck, but it does mean that we have to think differently so do you want to speak to that a little bit let's take a quick pause to talk about

my new favorite all-in-one platform Kajabi you know I've been singing their praises lately because they have helped our business run so much smoother and with way less complexity which I love not to mention our team couldn't be happier because now everything is in one place so it makes collecting data, creating pages, collecting payment, all the things so much simpler. One of our mottos at Boss Babe is simplify to amplify and Kajabi has really helped us do that this year. So of course I needed to share it here with you. It's the perfect time of year to do a bit of spring cleaning in your business, you know, get rid of the complexity and instead really focus on getting organized and making things as smooth as possible. I definitely recommend Kajabi to all of my clients and students. So if you're listening and haven't

checked out Kajabi yet, now is the perfect time to do so because they are offering Boss Babe listeners a 30-day free trial. Go to kajabi.com slash boss babe to claim your 30-day free trial. That's kajabi.com slash boss babe. Yeah, I was sharing COVID 2020 for a lot of us who are in the service-based online industry. Our businesses were booming and there's so many reasons behind that. There was all these stimulus checks, people who had previously spent a lot of money on commuting, ordering lunch outside the home, a lot of money on commuting ordering lunch outside the home a lot of coffees all those things that was adding up and people had a lot more money to spend and they were investing in making themselves better we were seeing the memes go

around all of 2020 i'm using this time to make myself better look at who i'll be when i re-emerge from this we all had that mindset and so we saw like the online space, online education space, boom, like bigger launches than we could ever have imagined. When a lot of us went into 2020 kind of like, holy shit, what does this mean for our businesses? Actually, for a lot of people, it was the biggest year for them in business. And now we're in a completely different place. And it's not to say people aren't having big launches. I saw someone have the biggest launch of their career a couple of months ago, but there was ROI directly tied to what they were selling. And it was very different to what people were buying in 2020,

where in 2020, people might have been investing to make themselves better. Right now, a lot of people are investing to change their circumstance to get a direct ROI. And I posted about this on my stories a few weeks ago. Someone had asked me that in a question box of, do you think the economy has changed? And I openly said, it absolutely has.

I've seen it in my business. I know every one of my peers has seen it in their businesses. Why are people not talking about it? And my DMs blew up with people saying, thank you for actually acknowledging this. I thought there was something wrong with me or my business. And what I honestly think, and I'm just going to say it, I feel like a lot of people in this industry are scared to say it because they think it reflects on them, their business coaching,

their courses, their programs. They think, oh, if I go and acknowledge that the economy has changed, it means my mindset work's not working. It means my social strategy's not working. That's what they believe. And I understand it. I'm not judging judging that and we do need people to come out and say the economy has shifted we are not in a great place economically there is so much instability happening in our country and across the entire world and to not acknowledge that i honestly think we're doing our students our community our friends our peers a massive disservice because we're having them live up to this invisible standard that people are not hitting behind the scenes. And everyone is reworking their sales pages, their email funnels. They're reworking everything to

come from a different angle, to directly talk about the ROI, to give those money back guarantees that they never had to give, to take something that was intangible and turn it tangible and so if you have been wondering is it just me no it's not and do i think you need to change things up it's not working absolutely because we don't know how long this is going to last we knew in 2020 all the stimulus checks we knew all of this was going to hit we thought it would have hit in 2020 2021 it hasn't it's hitting now and we just need some people to come out there and admit it and then we can all take a big deep breath and say ah there's really nothing wrong with me right I mean other things are very very wrong but I don't want to like on everyone's parade and

say that it's going to be bad I just want to say it might be time just to look at your email funnel in a different way it might be time to message that product in a different way it might be time to add that one bonus or that guarantee that you hadn't done it or had to do in the past and that doesn't reflect badly on you as an entrepreneur as a coach as you know an owner of one of these businesses it literally just is that's what your community needs right now and maybe they would maybe you know your program works in this economy great but that person might feel a little bit more comfortable investing in something that has a bit of a cushion for them that if it isn't working or it's not for them they can get a refund like and that's something we can all add and watch our conversion rates go up but i just want to have more conversation about it and that's so important especially if any of you listening are newer

entrepreneurs where maybe your business launched around the time where things were really great you haven't gone through a business winter it's just expected yeah what were you going to say lori that just this is this is such a beautiful moment in time to be learning again. And if you guys have been in this long enough, you know that this is this is going to continue to happen and that money is still out there. It's just going somewhere else. And you just have to shift your energy as you watch people's buying habits change as well. So of course, during COVID, it was like, obviously, online things were going crazy. People wanted to be in these Zoom groups, coaching all of that. And now you're seeing a huge draw towards more in-person and different people's in-person events are selling out more. So it's constantly flexing and seeing where people are going. But I also think, you know, something you do so well is also survey people and just really like seeing what's going on with your community.

And that's been something I've been guilty of in the past is just kind of guessing and thinking I know what they're feeling and what's going on. But, you know, you guys, even just from someone who has grown up in the Midwest to moving to California, you don't know what the hell people are thinking. Trust me. Like you can think, you know, but you're in a bubble. You get in a bubble no matter what. So it's such a great lesson in just always remembering that this is coming and you should always be nimble. And even when you're, you know, so many people were flying super high, even in, you know, my husband's raising money right now. And there's a couple of big companies that we are invested who were crushing it for a while and they're still doing great, but they're trying to raise money and it's just not going as well. And they're

afraid to talk about it because it makes people there is a real thing about it. It's hard because you don't just want to be online going, oh, I lost this money or whatever this looks like, because at the same time, you can't get people invested in you when you're saying, hey, I've lost money or whatever this looks like. So it's a really fine dance to almost have these containers where, you know, you should be speaking to the people, but you're also maybe actively showing like, hey, and this is what we're doing. So I think that is something that's really powerful for your communities is be real, but show what you're going to do, like show them the way, pave the way.

I don't know if this is going to work, but here's what we're going to try next. We're going to go here. We're going to go there. We're going to go everywhere. I feel like I needed to complete that sentence. Dr. Seuss. Green eggs and ham. But I think that that is like so powerful to hear. I know that there has been so many times where one really big thing for me that I would love to hear from you guys too is I used to always compare myself to as an entrepreneur to other people's numbers. I had no idea that they were paying JVs and affiliates. I had no idea that they were buying ads. So I would just hear that someone did a seven figure launch and I would figure because

we were just working off of our team and no one else, I would assume they were just taking all of that money home. And so it goes under their mattress. Yes. They did just pile it under their mattress and sleep on it, roll around in it naked with honey on or something. But that was the most empowering thing is when we get in rooms like this and when you speak transparently with each other, you know, even talking about what are you making? How did that launch you? Where did that money go? Because otherwise we don't know. We literally don't know. So if you don't have the mastermind, if you don't have, you know, that particular room, you should create it like even in a group of three or four people. And not just share launch numbers, but share profit. Share what

was invested into it in order to hit those numbers. Yeah. Yeah. There's just so much space for transparency there. I would actually love to talk a little bit about your pivot if we could. Yeah. I finally can. Please. Let's talk about it all day. We're out. Yeah. We're out. And knowing what it looked like a little bit behind the scenes, I mean, you had to quite literally kill something that you had poured two years of your life into building and not just come up with a new idea. But I know we're going to record a podcast about this, too. We can just share the story everywhere. Like even down to the name, you had like a week to come up with a new name. There were some crazy pivots behind the scenes. So I want you to take us back to that moment and you spoke to it where you had to answer

the question, what am I pretending not to know? What was your experience in that moment that you said, I can't pretend anymore that this is going to work? The original idea. Well, you know, when you invest a lot of time and money into something i can't remember the name of it but there's an actual cost fallacy yes say it again sunk cost fallacy sunk cost fallacy i didn't realize i was so in that but i was you know i was a million dollars in i was 54 women in 54 not just not just women who i was like, hey, I don't really know you. I knew them and looked up

to them or still do. And so it just I was mounting this pressure on myself because in the beginning I wasn't I wasn't sharing. So there was just I wasn't really sharing with friends because I wanted to appear stronger because you want people to get on board. It's very challenging. I'm telling you what I'm telling you. It is a challenging dance that is like appear strong, make this look amazing, make it look look like the greatest thing so people want to be involved and on the back side you're crumbling and you need to tell people that you are so that you can be stronger and actually appear strong again so it was like i've never okay i've never been in that like that i've always been really willing to share and be vulnerable but

i find like even it's funny because in the beginning, like even one of my best friends was the biggest and first investor. And I was like, I kind of feel like I shouldn't tell her this. So then you're really stressed out. And I am a person who I want to prove a point. I was like, I want to prove that I can do this, that I can bring this forward. This is a very male dominated industry. Everyone is telling me that I can do this, that I can bring this forward. This is a very male dominated industry. Everyone is telling me that I can't do this. And I'm like, do you know who I am? I can tell you this. She's like taking off her hoop earrings. I was like, all right, because I just got fueled by that. But the more and more that started to get unveiled to me and the more people that I would meet and the more honest conversations I would have, I couldn't deny that these are very smart people who I then allowed to look inside of the business who were then saying, here are your two options. And I also had a couple

of things happen where I actually couldn't go on because in order to get our license, our alcohol license, they wanted fingerprints of all of our 54 investors. And I was like, so they just gave their social security, which they didn't want to do at all. And now you want their fingerprints because some are celebrities. So they're not going to do that. They weren't going to do it. I already had people telling me they weren't going to do it. And so you're like, if they're not willing to cooperate, I actually can't go on. So it was a really interesting place for me of the numbers not lying and having someone deep in the alcohol industry who's actually an alcohol expert who helps all of the celebrities get their alcohol out. I'm like, how do you become an alcoholic expert? That sounds like quite the career. I thought I was, but I guess she really was.

I go, yeah, let's try this drinking. OK, so she literally said, here's your two options. You can either go raise 10 million more dollars and maybe never be profitable until you're bought. Can you imagine that feeling? Maybe never be profitable. Just keep raising, hoping that you get bought like that. Just that literally gave me a heart attack just thinking about it.

Or she was like, or you can pivot. And I was like, I could what? And so I'd already started thinking of another idea for this product, because as I was looking at the numbers, I learned really quickly, I need another way to bring money in. So I was thinking of, I've always loved hydration, always, always loved hydration packets, like the whole idea around it, always trying to drink more water, because it just makes me feel so much better. And obviously, we know we're also very motivated by our skin and all of the things that it does

that I had already had this idea of this hydration packet with benefits to it that was going to be an upsell for the alcohol. So it was kind of already in the back of my mind as like, well, shit, I need to get money through the door of this alcohol is just going to be operating in the red. Like, what does this look like? And so when that time came, where literally I had gotten the answer of, hey, we need these fingerprints. And this woman had just come and visited me and kind of looked at my my numbers in the business. And it all just came to like one weekend that Monday that Lauren had called me my chief of staff. And she said, you know, we're going to need fingerprints or we can't go on. And I said, then we can't go on. And I literally heard it and couldn't believe it came out of my mouth. And I was like, I

literally can't believe I'm doing this because all I could think about was 54 women and all of their husbands being like, I knew that was a bad investment. That's like what I would play in my head over and over. And so I didn't have an option though. I knew I had a lot of money left for this, especially for this type of company that it wouldn't take as much money to get it off the ground. And so I knew it was my duty literally to pivot and to bring a product that had the same exact energy and same exact message, like what I originally wanted to the world. And all of a sudden, we were all kind of like it was that butterfly season out of COVID where everyone's like, OK,

I think we're back. You know, a year later after COVID, everyone starts feeling like they're back. And I'm like, nobody really wants to be drinking anymore, let alone promoting it. Like we all just want to feel better. And so it just the alcohol thing wasn't feeling aligned. This felt so much better. But how did it feel? It was freaking dark. I am not going to live had these conversations with people. I was like, if something happened to me or if this airplane crashed, I would be relieved. Like I literally had really desperate thoughts of like, I just don't want to wake up. I don't know how to drag myself out of bed. I feel like I failed everyone. I'll never come back from this. It was really bad. It was really bad. Can I share the conversation, the Napa? Yes. So I remember, I didn't really know what was going on. And I mean, I knew it wasn't going the way you were hoping it was going. But I didn't know to the depth of what was going on. And we were all together in Napa and you just were really honest and you were just very honest about I'm struggling and the thing I'm struggling the most with is I'm gonna let you all down and I remember in that moment just being so

grateful that you were being honest about that because that was such an opportunity for me and I knew I was speaking on behalf of every single woman to say we didn't give a shit about the money from the beginning we were investing in you and i really love that you just had the guts to say it so that people could just love on you and share with you how they were really feeling because i feel like kind of goes back to what we were saying earlier too is people really just want to know like how can i be there and support you and i feel like that was such a moment for you where you're like you know what i'm not gonna hide this anymore here's where i'm at here's all the things that i feel about myself and just have it and that was really powerful thank you for that and like if i if i can say one thing to that point is i couldn't free myself

until i spoke it into a room of people that i knew it like it could have gone either way. But like I you have to speak it into a room of people who you know could be on a similar journey or are on a similar journey. And until you do that, you will be a prisoner in your own life. And so doing that in a room full of like my biggest mentors, I just like broke down. But you know what? After that, Natalie, I was free. Like I was totally free free and that was i'm like okay so whose opinions really matter i think that's what we need to think about in the winter season is like whose opinions really matter who do i need to go speak this to whose help do i need and if you have their backing like really it could be three people it could be five people you will find the energy and courage

to get through all of it and that's all i for me that's all it takes like when you say the friends list which by the way i'm so upset i'm not on your shitty text list of texting me all your shit i want i want to i know how do we get the invite to that i can add you into the shit list right now it's all mums because okay we're just sharing all the we need to be prepared for that season so on a separate one actually it's fine you'll ask to unsubscribe very soon um i i assure you but we'll we'll give it a shot but i love what you said then all the mums are like there's pictures of poop and squirting milk everywhere oh yeah the poo is everywhere um

but what you said there it was it comes back to that not gaslighting yourself like telling yourself if i speak this out into this room people are going to think xyz of me to actually speak it out and be free like that is so powerful to just be so honest with yourself that you're you're like i i at this point if I'm not honest with myself none of it matters so I'm going to be so honest in a room of people that I feel like could walk away and judge me I could say anything or I could go a different way but at least I was honest yeah it's so true you get to a place I think we've all been into this place recently actually for all of us which is kind of cool you get so sick of not feeling like yourself. You get so sick of like living this like altered personality or you get sick of your own shit.

That's what I'm looking for. You really are like you're over it. You're like how it's that same thing. How long am I going to tolerate like me tormenting myself? Because it's like we have this awareness that it's really just us and we have the ability to free ourselves. Like when you're in that conversation for you guys, I would love to hear like what are those moments where you know that you're do you know you're doing it to yourself in the moment? Like what is that conversation like? I would love to say that I know, but I think I'm also really good at gaslighting myself. I feel like it's I've been on a journey this year

of going from what I know in my head to like feeling it in the cells of my body. Because I think there's a lot that I've known for my entire journey. I'm very personally developed. Anyone else? You're like, but I've read all the books on forgiveness and I've read all the books on, but I don't think I had a practice for getting it from my head down into my literal selves. So that's just taken a lot of slowing down. It's taken a lot of time to acknowledge what are the beliefs that I'm keeping in place and why am I fighting for those limitations? Why am I fighting for that version of myself that feels safe, but also shitty at the same time? And taking the time to acknowledge like when I know it up here in my head, but I don't practice it. I don't feel it.

I haven't embodied it yet because I want to just believe that when I know it logically, because I read it probably on an Instagram quote. We're all good. I'm just like double tap. Maybe I'll even share it. Like I've got that. But I don't have I have not. I don't have.

Don't got that. How do you say that? Don't got it. And that's why this this is more of a winter season. It's been a season of slowing down. It's been a season of pausing and trusting that stillness isn't the same as laziness. It's actually the best thing I can do for my community. It's the best thing I can do for my business is to just be in, like marinating in sometimes the harder moments mentally until I can get the lessons that I might

know and I just want to bypass. I want to just action my way through them, get them down into like the physical level where I own them. And that's been just quite honestly a super, super messy process. You just made me really think about like when we're resting, we all secretly are like, this resting is so productive. I know I'm going to get something from it. And then you're like, why does this feel so like empty space? But you like I think you have to rest easy knowing it is productive even when nothing happens. Because I remember the year that we had like started hanging out and I was in my year of just like, I don't know, I need some space. And I was like feeling like I was productively resting. And every day I was like, well, I'm cutting things out. I'm

doing less so that I can get more answers. I just wanted I didn't know what was next. So I was productively resting and every day I was like well I'm cutting things out I'm doing less so that I can get more answers I just wanted I didn't know what was next so I was leaving room for what was next I was trying to rush the space I was like okay I've had like three weeks and then it was okay I've had six months where's my next big thing yeah like okay god where's my next big thing like let it land any day now and it felt like nothing was going on. But so much goes on. Like in nothing, so much goes on. And you just have to trust that. And you actually have to like savor it and enjoy it. And I think be in those spaces where it's like nothing is actually happening and that's okay. And it's important for your brain. It's important for your well-being. Okay. So I'm kind of thinking of that reel that we were looking at again in backstage

backstage before we came out to our stage we should sell backstage passes they'd be so disappointed so disappointed so what do we do now eating steak with a with a spoon and a fork backstage not effective but that's all it wasn't effective yes and i didn't want to bite it because then i was like i'm going to come out with steak in my teeth so that's why that's how glamorous yes like a sport yeah but there was this reel that was circulating so obviously if it's on instagram it's the truth this is a true story about these redwood trees that were injected with a chemical that's very much like adrenaline. And they were injected with it so that they wouldn't go into hibernation.

But what happened is these beautiful trees, redwoods are the ones that you can like drive a car through. They're huge. They're big. They're strong. They survived for hundreds of years. They died within a year because they never had a chance to winter. And again, this is 100% factual because it was on the internet. And whether or not it was, I think that's such a parallel because you're speaking to it. There's such a tendency to want to rush through a winter. But are we, and this is actually the question that I've been asking myself, am I unintentionally lengthening it by avoiding the lesson that winter is inviting me into? By avoiding the feelings and the emotions that might feel scary to go and touch because I haven't allowed myself to go there because I've been so on because it's just so easy to always be on. But are those actually the emotions that are blocking me from the next level

of impact that I know I really want to make? So maybe just to kind of tie this together, what's one of the bigger gifts that a winter season has given you? You just made me think like I've never heard a good album from a happy person like ever. Like the best songs like Taylor Swift always comes out with good ones after she just went through some shit. Like you have to go through that to get some good stuff. So what was the question? What's the name of your next rap album? Now, what's a gift?

What's one of the biggest gifts that a winter season has given you? Myself. I have never felt like you said more myself ever. I have never felt more clear. I've never felt more sure footed. I've never felt more ease to say no and more ease to say yes. I am so proud of the woman that I have become because she has endured a battle that I never thought I would have ever gotten through. I really love me right now because of it. I can't wait for that album. I really can't. I should have written it during the pain. That's the problem. I can still access it. Next one. Next one. Natalie, what about you? Similar. I feel like in my most recent season of Winter, which I will say is probably one of the hardest that I've ever been through, I prolonged it by resisting so many of the things that I already knew were true in myself.

And by resisting it, I just kept putting it off and making it bigger and harder and scarier. And there was a point during this whole time that I became so, like I was talking about prioritizing my peace, I became so at peace with all of the things I was afraid of. So I became so at peace with the idea of walking away from a business that I'd spent six years building. A business that I tied my name to, that I really identified myself with. Walking away from relationships that were some of the deepest relationships of my entire life. Walking away from a version of me that's the only version I've ever known to be safe. The version of me that's constantly achieving. That's the safe version of me.

And I could go on a long list of all the things that I faced off with. And I got to a point of asking myself, well, who am I without all of these things? And would I still be okay? Would it still be safe? And I stopped resisting it. And I became at peace with all of it, and I became at peace with whatever unfolds next is meant for me, and I'm fine with any single path, and I truly meant it. I wasn't just saying it. It wasn't like, oh, this is a negotiation, or this is x, y, z. I truly meant it.

Whatever is meant to be, I am going to be okay with. And there was points I was like, would I be okay with being a full-time mother? And that made me face off with so many parts of myself that had my worth tied to my achievements and how much I was earning. And would I still be invited in those rooms? Would I still have those friends? I mean, I faced off with it all and I came to such peace with yes I absolutely would be okay with losing all of these things because at my core I feel peace and happiness because I'm I'm now at a point of realizing it's not coming from any of this it's not coming from any relationship even my closest relationships it's not coming from the amount my bank it's not coming from how that launch went it's not coming from will those people invite me on that trip it's not coming from how that launch went it's not coming from will those people invite me

on that trip it's not coming from any of that and we've even talked about this to just be at peace with all of that is the most powerful feeling and i approach everything that i can from that lens now and i even was saying this to my husband earlier about I closed on two big deals today that I've been working on for a really long time and they have been the most fun deals to negotiate of my entire career because at any single point I knew I would have just walked away if it wasn't right for me because I didn't need it in the past part of me would have needed it because the sunk cost of being in the negotiation all the things I would tell myself about what it meant none of it meant anything to me because I'm happy anyway and so that was the biggest gift for me and then the second thing that I want to share when you were sharing about resisting something

and the feeling being so big I connected with a friend during part of this process and she was kind of asking me what's going on and I made this comment I was like I'm not even going to get into that because it feels way too big and she it's Alyssa Nobriga she's one of my closest friends in the world and for anyone that knows I will know she's one of the most incredible coaches on the planet and she was like oh let's get into that like okay she's like okay what are you doing on Sunday can we talk about this and i was like okay so all week long i felt nauseous i felt anxious going on to this call i was shaking because i knew there was some really deep emotion that i had been so scared of facing and so i got on a call with her and i was expecting that this was going to be screaming and crying and i was like and i literally

remember saying to her, Alyssa, this emotion is way too big for me to feel on this call. My baby's in the other room. My husband's like, it's just too big. And she was like, okay, that's okay. Let's feel it anyway. And she took me through the most incredible process.

And I got to the root of that emotion in 90 seconds. And when I got to the root of the emotion and I faced it off, all I felt was peace and happiness. There was no screaming. There was no crying. There was no any of that. And I was like, what is this? What is this?

And she was talking about how when you really get to the root of any emotion, when you stop telling yourself stories about what it is or isn't, at the core of every single emotion like that is peace yourself stories about what it is or isn't at the core of every single emotion like that is peace because you just felt it and i didn't need to feel it in any kind of way i didn't need to express it in any kind of way and i'm not saying that process is for everyone but that was such a lesson for me because i have always been an avoider of things that feel too big i'll i have work today i have a meeting in five minutes i'm not going there i'm gonna put it in a closet and hide it or i need to show up as happy mom in 10 minutes i'm not doing

that and what she taught me and that was actually feeling it can bring me so much closer to my peace so much happier so much faster than i thought i thought this was going to take me years to deal with the pain that i was dealing with i thought it would take years and it took me 90 seconds after going through the process so also permission to face off with those things in containers with people that you really trust because it can be a lot easier i think than we think it has to be so alissa's calendar just filled for the year i know i'm sorry let's go ahead and spell her like 90 seconds take us through the process. I will say the process took a lot longer to explain than to feel. And she had to let me go at it from a logical place before she let me feel it. And so she's like, we're going to feel it in two ways and she'll tell it better.

But it was on a logical level, we'll feel it and we'll talk about it, but then we need to go and address it on a somatic level. And she took me through that whole process and she's incredible but it did take a lot longer than that 90 seconds but to feel it was just 90 seconds and it was just a reminder for me of like when i tell myself that i can't feel it because i've got that meeting in five minutes i can probably go feel it yes and the more that i put it in the closet and tell myself i'm okay the bigger it gets and she was just you know, there's so many ways you can be feeling it. Like for me, I don't know. I love going out in the car

and turning my music up really loud. And I'm like singing along. I'm like, oh my God, now I'm really crying because music brings it out of me and being out of the house. So there's little things or like being just in a bath and like fully sinking into myself. Like there's ways that actually I knew logically

I could be doing to feel my feelings, but I think I was telling myself that it wasn't safe to feel them or like I couldn't handle them I wasn't trained all the things we tell ourselves but actually yeah we're so much stronger than we think yeah that just feels so nourishing I think relating to so much of what you both said and yes there have been lessons from previous winters but I'm just gonna let myself receive that as like nourishment for me as I feel very much in that place and very much even just willing to share it more vulnerably as I'm going through it, not when it's solved. Because I still love my business and I love my life and I actually wouldn't trade this for the world. Because when we sign up for this journey, you're signing up to become someone new and you don't get to become someone new without going through a few deaths in the process so come to my funeral

for my previous self you're all invited and I'm just really encouraged filled up inspired by spending time with all of you so thank you and i'm really excited for when we have this conversation when you come out of the winter and you have those lessons that you get to share as well and maybe we'll be back in another winter and in our funeral clothes and tell me and that's the whole thing and i just love how we are just talking about the seasons as they are not as we've learned them and that's the thing i don't want to pretend that i have other inspiration i can draw from but what i'm actually practicing is so much of what we've talked about here is just being okay being seen in my not feeling as powerful state so that's it thanks everyone Thank you.