the bossbabe podcast - 349. Our Former COO Is Back w/ BTS Tea + Talking Leadership, Transitions & Hiring Your Dream Team

Episode Date: January 23, 2024

We’re going behind the scenes with Bossbabe’s former COO, Marissa Liesen. This powerhouse businesswoman turned entrepreneur is dropping her hottest tips + tea. We dive into her time at Bossbabe why she left to start her journey flying solo, + how she navigated the transition out all while, keeping our team culture thriving. Tune in to get our specific advice for honing your management skills, hiring a right-hand, and reaching that next level of success. HIGHLIGHTS The biggest lessons Marissa learned during her time as COO at Bossbabe + why she decided to leave. How to hone your management skills as a leader with open communication and feedback. How Marissa kept the team culture stable while navigating her transition out. What to look for when hiring your right-hand + calling out the red flags to be wary of. The most common causes that hold people back from scaling further. RESOURCES + LINKS Join The Société: The Place to Build A Freedom-Based Business Apply for a Free Strategy Session with Marissa Liesen Boost the health benefits of your coffee + more. Save 25% off with code: BOSSBABE at forwellness.com/bossbabe Try Notion AI for FREE - go to notion.com/bossbabe FOLLOW bossbabe: @bossbabe.inc Natalie Ellis: @iamnatalie Marissa Liesen: @marissaliesen

It's always that I'm bringing on social media managers and this is a huge problem because they can never do it the same way I would. And maybe that's true. In fact, it probably is. I think it's very difficult to hire a social media manager. But maybe the answer is not hiring the social media manager. Maybe the answer is hiring people for these other pieces in the business and you actually stay focused on your social content.

So it's also in the strategy of how you're bringing a team and what you're focused on versus what they're focused on. Hello, and welcome back to the Boss Babe podcast. Okay, we've got a slightly different one coming your way this week. So you might remember a couple of months ago, we had our brand new COO, Lindsay come onto the podcast and we talked all about what her role looks like and what the process was like of her actually getting the job at Boss Babe. And I mentioned on there at some point we would have our previous COO come on and talk about what she did at the company and all of the tips that she has because she's phenomenal. So the day is today. I invited

Marissa Leeson, who is our previous COO, and she is a powerhouse businesswoman, now turned entrepreneur, to come on. We first talk about why she left Boss Babe. We talk about how she helped me to really navigate the transition when Danielle was transitioning out with the team and making sure that our culture was great and our team felt included and stable and secure and a lot of turmoil. We just get really real, you guys. You know that I don't hold anything back here. We talk about that. We talk about what you might want to look for if you're hiring your right hand. Some red flags, some phrases you might want to look for on their CVs. And then generally, if you're

thinking about scaling a business, some of the things that might be holding you back from scale, we really go there, we get into all of it. I'm really excited to be able to have this conversation and introduce you to her because she's incredible. And I really want to support what's next in her journey. I am the biggest supporter and champion of women, especially women that have helped me in part build my dream as well. I want to help them build theirs. So I hope you enjoy this episode. Marissa, so good to talk to you again. Welcome back to Boss Babe. Thank you. It's so good to see you again. So I want to start by really talking about what you were doing when you were with us at Boss Babe. So do you want to tell everyone a little bit about when

you joined and then what your role was within the company? Yeah, sure. So I joined, it was about two years ago. And well, my role, it was largely a Swiss army knife, to be honest, but I came in as chief operator and operations can really cover a gamut of things. And that's exactly what I was doing at Boss Babe. I think the things I wasn't doing was more marketing and the audience growth and the marketing side of it. But team systems, legal, finance, all the sort of backend pieces of the business, that's

where really I was focused. And one thing about you is, and you said it yourself too, you're like a steady sail in the wind. When you joined, I feel like it was a whole, there was a lot of wind and a lot of transitions as everyone knows. Have you always been like that or is it something you've developed over time in your career? I'm sure I've honed the skill over time in my career. I think it's probably part of my DNA to be more the calm, let's figure out what we're going to do. Don't stress, we'll solve this type of person. But over the course of my career, I've worked in so many different types of environments, everything from tech startup, where it's literally me and the founder to giant corporate environments and everything in between, spending a lot of time actually in

growth stage businesses, which was the in-between. What I find in growth stage businesses is there's just not in a bad way necessarily, but there's a lot of problems to solve. And in fact, that's actually kind of why I like it because I think it's more interesting and there's always a challenge, which I love a challenge, but I think spending, I mean, over a decade in those types of businesses, I've just honed the skill of, okay, something's happening. It could be stressful. We could lean into the stress

or we could lean into solving the issue and figuring out a way to do it while keeping our energy high. So that's always kind of now where I lean is how do we solve this in a calm way and not let the stress carry us away. I love that. And definitely that's something you brought to the company.

I feel like everyone in Boston was very grateful for that when there was so much, let's call it turbulence going on. What would you say when you were with us was some of your biggest learnings, whether in your career, about business, just on a high level, what did being there really teach you? Yeah. So I, one of the number one things I took away from that experience is just the learning from you and seeing how you can take action quickly and make something happen quickly,

it's almost a mindset, to be honest. And even though I've worked in smaller environments for many years where you are moving quickly, there was a different flavor of that at Boss Babe where it was like, we have an idea and we think it's a good one. Let's go, let's try it, let's test it. And just being in that environment

actually taught me a lot for my own mindset about not to over-plan, not to think things through too much and just start testing and start seeing what works. So that was a big learning for me. Also just even our launch strategies, how we would look at an offer ladder and how we would look at who our end customer is and what's going to serve them best. Like the ways that Boss Babe does that. I mean, that's business. Of course, you're doing that in any business, but the ways that Boss Babe did it, I just learned a lot of strategies from how we were reaching our members and reaching our end users of our courses. I love that. And so the question I'm sure everyone's like waiting to hear the answer to,

what is it that made you decide you want to leave Boss Babe? Well, it honestly was less about wanting to leave Boss Babe, more about wanting to carry on a journey that I've been wanting to be on now for a very long time. So prior to Boss Babe, I was in an advertising agency environment for 10 years. I mean, it was easily over a decade. And Boss Babe was sort of my first move into, okay, I know I want something different. I actually do feel like I want to be on my own. But in some ways at that time, maybe I wasn't quite ready for that. So I felt like, okay, I've followed Boss Babe for a long time. It felt like a dream move for me. And I also felt like I would learn so much

about this type of environment, which I did. And it was kind of a stepping stone into where I am now. So I got to a point where at Boss Babe, I saw that, okay, we had streamlined the business quite a bit and you have a really good handle on how things are running behind the scenes because it is so much more streamlined now. There is a smaller team. And I feel like this was the perfect time then for me to, I had the confidence. I had the desire. I saw that the team was going to be okay. I saw that

you were going to be okay. And it was like, okay, I think this is the right time. It just kind of energetically felt like it was time, but it was less about leaving Boss Babe, more about just carrying on the journey that I always wanted to be on. Yeah. I'm so excited for you. And how has it been now? You've been on this journey for a few months. How are you finding it? How is entrepreneurship life treating you? Yeah, honestly, it's really, really good. I feel like I've been, I mean, I've been paired up with CEOs for so long now that it doesn't feel super unnatural now for me to be doing this on my own because I'm just simply doing something I've been doing in many ways, but just now helping more CEOs through coaching. And I don't know, I'm loving it.

And I'm finding that just having the opportunity to just reach new people, help new people. I mean, honestly, what I want to do is help people. I mean people. I mean, honestly, what I want to do is help people. I mean, in the end, that's what I want to do. So the fact that I'm already, I already have clients, I'm already able to do that. And I see the opportunity in so many different ways that can be doing that through memberships and masterminds and things like that. It's exciting, to be honest. I'm so excited for you. And yeah, it was definitely feeling like you'd had so much change and definitely your identity and everything was shifting it felt like the perfect time that you

were like you know what I'm gonna go jump and do this on my own and I love how you did it as well you didn't try and straddle working with Boss Babe and doing your own thing and diluting your focus you really made that decision of I'm gonna work with Boss Babe until I complete my handover. And you were so generous with the time you give us there. And then you said, okay, now I'm going to draw the line in the sand and I'm going to go all in with my business. And I actually think that was an amazing way of doing it. I know that's not open and accessible to everyone because everyone has different financial circumstances, but the way you did it, I feel like it's probably served you really well to have that solid focus, right? No, it definitely has. I mean, it did. So earlier I said, maybe I didn't plan everything, but I definitely did plan something. So to the finance piece of it, yes, you're right.

I was able to plan for a scenario where I would have a runway to make something work. So that certainly helped my cause quite a bit. But this was never about, I want to leave Boss Babe. This was never about being unhappy or anything like that. This was about, okay, I'm ready for my new journey. And I didn't necessarily feel like, oh, I just want to leave. I actually did want to make sure that you guys were in a really good spot. And I know with Lindsay coming on, it was perfect. I felt so good once I knew Lindsay was going to be the one. I'm like, okay, now I feel actually relieved by that. But I love you. I love the team. It was bittersweet, to be honest. I was excited about my journey, but it wasn't an easy decision either.

But I feel like I'm not the person that will ever leave somebody high and dry on anything. Of course, I want to leave my legacy to be a good one and leave you in a good spot. And I don't know, and keep the relationship alive too. Totally. And I think for anyone listening to that is thinking about hiring an executive, hiring a right hand, I think what incredible quality to look for. I know it's not the kind of thing you can ask someone in a job interview and get a correct answer, but I felt like from the beginning of our relationship, when we were first talking about you joining the team, just based on your experience and the way in which you left your previous company, it was very evident to me that you were that kind of person who

actually really cares about people, who cares about the work that you do in the world, who cares about their teams. Like you'll tell people now you're still in touch with teams from your older companies too. And I think that when you're looking to hire an executive is a really great thing to look for because you want some everyone transitions. And I think that's a beautiful thing about being a founder is you get to be part of someone's career for a certain length of time. And you always know eventually they are going to transition out and it's going to be bittersweet, but what a gift that you get to be part of it

for a certain amount of time. And so you want to work with someone that, you know, you can trust when they are making that transition. And I feel like ours was so seamless. Of course, you know, it was bittersweet, but it was so seamless in the way that it was done. So that is my hiring tip for finding an exec is really looking for someone who does care about the work that they're doing.

But going into that and going deeper on this. So one of the conversations I had with another team member, she said, Natalie, you know, I really want to give you some feedback on the business. I'm like, I'm all ears. And she said, you know, the time that this business has run its best is when we've had really great COOs and operators in place. And when we haven't, it hasn't been as much of a fun place to work. But when we have, it's palpable and it's noticeable. And she was really referring to you. You were still in place at the time.

She was referring to just how incredible you'd been, especially in terms of team and culture and management. So I want to talk a little bit about that because a lot of people listening to this podcast are entrepreneurs and a lot of entrepreneurs aren't typically great managers. Like I'm the first to say, listen, I love leading. Management is a skill that I'm continually having to learn and figure out because it doesn't come naturally to me. So when it comes to someone that really wants to hone in their skills with management, I'd love to talk to you a little bit about it. I mean, let's start granular and as simple as

how often should you be checking in with team members? And is there a specific way that that communication should look like, you know, for some people that like, do I just hop on a call and say like, how are you doing and hope that they tell me the truth. And then they've got some stuff they're working on and then we call it a day. Or is that a method to checking in with team? Yeah. Well, I personally, I feel there is a method, but overarching one big takeaway for managing team, whether that's a contractor, whether that's your core team, is they almost forget about the emotional element of a person, right? And the stresses that they're going through day to day and the energy that they're putting towards your business. So just as an umbrella kind of overarching guideline, just think about them as humans, not just as this role that they're playing.

But that being said, yes, I do think there's a method. What I like to do is have bi-weekly check-ins unless there's maybe something more going I like to do is have bi-weekly check-ins, unless there's maybe something more going on than I would go to weekly, but on a normal kind of cadence bi-weekly, I think is good. And I like to do a what's working, what's not type of format, because with that format, you're going to get there. I mean, hopefully if they feel safe with you and that's the environment that you want to cultivate, when you ask what's not working, you're going to get a mix of what's not working in the business that maybe you didn't realize even, what's not working with other team members, perhaps, which also you might not be seeing.

And also what's not working for them in their life. And that could be impacting something that they're doing in the business as well. And then what's working, sometimes, honestly, that's the harder answer to get from people. So you might need to prompt it a little bit. But then it's kind of cultivating, bringing up like, what are, what are the successes we can be celebrating together? What are the ways that they can be feeling good about what they're doing? And if you're working through the issues, but also spending time and gratitude and spending time thinking about and talking about what they are doing well, that makes a good formula for an ongoing relationship.

And so do you share with them what's working, what's not working, or you ask them to do that? That's yeah, good clarification. So I do it on both sides. So I ask them and then I also share from my end. What's nice about that is it starts a feedback loop that becomes very comfortable to talk about what's not working. Because another thing I see very commonly is that managers and business owners both have a hard time giving constructive or critical feedback. People just aren't comfortable with it. Naturally, some people are better at it than others, but it creates this environment of it's expected to talk about what's not working and it becomes less scary and just something that is part of the routine. So it just becomes easier and easier

to talk about those things. And so do you prep them ahead of times, ahead of their first meeting saying, we're going to talk about what's working, what's not working? Do you tell them on their first call? And then do you tell them, okay, now in every meeting, moving forward, this is what we're going to do? I do. I think people knowing what to expect is you're always going to get a better response when they have a sense for what they're walking into. You also have to think about and remember that team members are sometimes a little scared of you. Even if you're not a scary person or you don't see yourself that way, they see you as somebody that has control over their job, over their security. And there's just this, whether

or not they're even aware of it, there's this natural kind of dynamic there where they are a little scared. So I like to try to create the safest environment I can for them so that even when I do have to give critical feedback, they're hearing it in a way where they're not fearing. They're hearing something that they can actually work on. So another thing I like to do in the very beginning of a relationship is just explain to them, I'm somebody that's here to help you. I want to foster your growth. I want to see you succeed. When you succeed, I succeed as well. So this is a relationship that we're in together. And I really try to make them feel like I'm there for them. And then when they hear my advice and my critical feedback,

they take it in a way that is productive and not, I don't know, fear-based or even counterproductive. Let's talk about that critical feedback because I definitely know this is a struggle for a lot of people, myself included. It's such a skill you have to learn. I don't think it comes naturally to a lot of people to be able to give critical feedback in a way that's clear, but like you say, doesn't have the adverse effect. So do you have a formula, a way that you would give it? Let's say a grounded example of someone, they just keep making mistakes. Like they keep submitting work and it's constantly got mistakes in it. They're not spending that time with the attention to detail. They're not reviewing their work and you had to give them the feedback.

How would you go about giving that? Yeah. So first I like to just open it up for some questions. I ask them questions. So, you know, I'll say I've noticed X, Y, and Z, and let's talk about it. I want to get to a point where we're doing better together as a team and where we're seeing different performance from you, but let's talk about why these things are maybe happening. And I let them talk about it a bit because, you know, it could be that they didn't actually know, they didn't understand the direction, but they were scared to say that. So they just went down a road that was the wrong road. Or it could be that something's going on at home and they haven't mentioned that, but they're incredibly stressed out with their

child or something else and it's impacting their performance. So I like to ask why, what's going on and again, in a safe way so that they can actually be honest with me. So I really know what I'm dealing with. Once they explain why, then I troubleshoot that with them. Cause once I have more clarity, then it's like, okay, well here, let's, let's talk about solutions. And I guide them and mentor them on here's, here's what better looks like, or here's what success looks like. So they understand what I'm expecting. And I work with them on an action plan to get there. So I think it's some, in a nutshell, a combination of asking why this is even going on and then working with them and mentoring

them on how to get better. Yeah. And two, I think also your demeanor going into it and the way you have the conversation, you know, one thing about you, it's great as you go in calm and you're prepped, you know what you're going to say, and you're not just like reacting. And I think there's something to be said for that. Yes. I don't ever really see an upside when you're managing a team to being reactive, showing your stress. I mean, of course I'm a human too. So of course I'm getting stressed sometimes too, but I try to like offer that for the team as much as I can. Like, I'm not going to get on a call and be like, Oh my God, like, I can't believe X, Y, and Z. You know, I might be thinking that, but I'm not going to say that to the team, you know, I'm going to come on and be like, okay, like clear the energy. Like, let's

get on. Like I'm their rock, you know? So I'm going to get on in that manner. But yeah, I agree. Your, your energy is definitely going to impact your team. So the more that you can lead with the energy that you actually want back from them, the better. And I think as you get more mature as a person and more mature in your career, you learn how to like manage your own energy so that those stress moments aren't showing through to the people that are actually trying to learn from you and be guided by you. We just recently wrapped our annual CEO Mama retreat. Oh my goodness, you guys, it was incredible. We had the most luxury welcome bags for all of our guests and our podcast sponsor for wellness contributed their superfood focus bites and their coffee supplement, the good stuff.

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Once again, that's 4Wellness.com backslash boss babe for 25% off and make sure you use our promo code boss babe so they know that I sent you. We officially launched Business HQ inside of our membership to society earlier this month and it looks so good inside of Notion. Notion is one of our podcast sponsors and it is so effortless for me to share how much I love this platform. Notion combines your notes, documents and projects into one space that's simple and beautifully designed. And you can leverage the power of AI right inside Notion across all your notes and documents without jumping between your work and a separate AI powered tool. Notion is your one place to connect to teams, knowledge, tools. So you're empowered to do your most meaningful work. Unlike

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which keeps everyone on the same page. Try Notion for free when you go to notion.com slash boss babe. That's all lowercase letters, notion.com slash boss babe to try the powerful, easy to use Notion AI today. And when you use our link, you're supporting our show, notion.com slash boss babe to try the powerful easy to use notion ai today and when you use our link you're supporting our show notion.com slash boss babe i feel like this is a perfect segue into culture and i feel like your time at boss babe was like a crash course in how to make sure the culture remains when there is so much let's call it chaos going on in the background.

You know, the transition of going from two founders to one founder in any business, no matter how much you both care about the team and really want it to go well, it's going to have an impact, especially given, you know, we've talked really publicly about the transition. I was initially going to leave and then I decided I wasn't because that just didn't work out. So then I was the one that's staying and Danielle was the one that was leaving. And as much as we both were on the same page about that, Danielle and I truly cared about our team and we were on the same page. That is felt across the entire team. And, you know, the two of us were there since the absolute beginning of the business.

And that's what the team had always known. So to make such a big change, that is very challenging for a business and culture and one thing you really supported me with was being able to keep that culture in a positive place when all of this was going on I think we did a good job at you know keeping the stress behind the scenes but it would have been felt in the business like it absolutely would have what were some things that you think really helped and how would you suggest someone else could think about navigating that? You know, maybe it's not that co-founder leaving, but maybe they've had a rough patch in revenue or, and you know, the team's wondering, are my jobs safe? Or

there's just a lot going on and they're wanting to keep that culture feeling really positive. Yeah. So this goes back actually to what I was saying about the overarching theme of your team are human beings. So these are relationships just like any other relationship. And that means communication is absolutely critical to the success of that relationship. And during a high stress time, of course,

we had a very unique situation happening. In that case, I was checking in with the team very frequently and they are individuals, they are different. And I knew that. So I would, you know, approach the conversations with each individual in a way that I felt they would probably receive the best. And I would give them an open forum for asking me questions. And I would give them a safe space and let them know that you can literally ask me anything. And I'm just going to give you answers. And I want you to feel okay during this. And that worked actually really well. And I think it also helped for you and Danielle as well, because you had dynamics that you were working through as well. And in some ways that protected you too. So you didn't have

to think about that because I was handling that. too. So you didn't have to think about that because I was handling that. Not to say you weren't caring and thinking about the team, of course you were, but there was so much going on that we were able to kind of divide and conquer and make sure that all the things were okay. But yeah, if it's a revenue dip,

if it's any other kind of stressful issue happening in a company, like I'm a huge proponent of honesty. Like, let's just be honest. Let's talk about these things. Let's be transparent. Let's, you know, let me hear how you're feeling. And when I would hear how they're feeling, it's like, okay, well, I can probably reassure you on this because X, Y, and Z. And if I can't reassure them, then I can say, well, you know, I'm an open line for you

anytime. So anytime you're feeling this way, come talk to me. But it's honestly mostly about communication. Yeah. And one thing you said there too, was the dividing and conquering. And I think having someone in your team that you can trust with that is a huge deal. And there's probably people listening thinking, Oh my goodness, I couldn't imagine being able to trust them on my team like that. Maybe I don't have that kind of person. Where would you suggest if they are going to start, where would you suggest they start looking for a person like that? And what kind of questions might be helpful to ask in an interview or what might you want to see on their resume? Cause I feel like I've, I got really lucky with that. I have had, you know, you in the business and Lindsay in the business who I do really trust

like that. And I don't know if that is normal or if it's quite rare. I think it's quite rare because, you know, entrepreneurs feel like their business is their baby and they care deeply about their team. And so to have a buffer between them and their team, sometimes, especially during stressful times, you really need to find someone you can trust. Yeah. So, okay. So I'm going to tackle that in a couple of different ways. For starters, I just want to clarify because, you clarify because my title was chief operating officer. And that title is like a super nebulous title. That can mean very different things at very different businesses, to be honest. And yes, I was overseeing finance and legal and those

parts of the business. That is like classical operations. But I'd say the most important thing that you're looking for when you are now starting to get that right-hand person in your business is you're actually looking for somebody that can manage the team and manage the culture and manage the moving parts because you can still outsource finance and legal. I just happen to also do those things too, of course, with our consults as well. But anyway, I want to kind of make it clear that when you are bringing in a right hand, the thing you should more be looking for is somebody that is loyal, trustworthy. They have a record of managing team. They know how to do that.

They know how to create a good culture. So that being said, I think in many ways, it's a gut hire. Of course, there's questions that you'll ask, and I'll come up with some good examples for that. But there's an energy exchange that has to be right between the CEO slash founder and this role that we're talking about, whether it's an integrator, chief operating officer, or chief of staff or anything like that. You really need to lean into your intuition and your gut when you're meeting with this person and feeling who they are as a person. What you're looking for on a resume, I mean,

that's a little tougher to be honest, because take me, for example, I had big corporate experience. I had startup experience. I had agency experience. It was different than what we were doing at Boss Babe. But I had the fundamental pieces, though, of what it means to run a back end of a business. So that's more what you're looking for, less about did they work in this exact type of business before? It's no, have they done these types of roles before? How long did they stay there? I'm not saying you have to be somebody that stays somewhere five years and never moves around. But if they're somewhere for a year and they move and that's consistent throughout their resume, that's probably a red flag. I probably wouldn't hire that person. And then ask them about their team. How do they talk about their team? How do they talk about managing a team? Especially if that's what you're interviewing

for in this moment and listen to how they talk about that. Do they talk about performance and KPIs and that's it? And that's kind of where their head goes. Or do they talk about the growth of their team? And do they talk about culture? Do they bring that up without you even having to bring that up first? It's more about like, what are the things that they bring to the table when you ask these questions without you even having to prompt? Yeah, that's a big one. And I agree on the red flag of like, if they're just hopping around company to company to company, that's probably not the person you want as your right hand because you want someone that you know could be in it for the long term with you. Yeah, I mean, exactly.

Because, you know, it takes time to build trust anyway. Even if you feel and your intuition is telling you they're a trustworthy person, you still need to build that. You need some time to build that. The team needs stability. And so if you have somebody that is only there in a year or within a year's time, like that's not enough time to build trust with you and also build, you know, the trust with the team as well. So yeah, time is a big one.

Okay, and there's one thing that you had on your CV that was just like a full good instinct that you are right for the team. And you said, I come with batteries included. And I remember seeing that and just thinking, yep, she is our woman because it's surprising how few people don't like not in a, in a rude way, but a lot of what we mean by that is like a lot of people don't often think things through and they don't come with solutions. They don't take initiative. You have to, if you want them to do something, you have to give them instruction A through Z. They can't go and figure it out. So to have, like, I remember

working with you, it was very much like, here's what I want to do. And you're like, cool, got it. You come back and it's done even better than I could have imagined. But some people you're like, here's what I want to do. And they're like, cool. And they just wait for more and more and more instruction. And I feel like when you're working with someone on a high level that doesn't work. Let's take a quick pause to talk about my new favorite all-in-one platform Kajabi. You know I've been singing their praises lately because they have helped our business run so much smoother and with way less complexity which I love. Not to mention our team couldn't be happier because now everything is in one place so it makes collecting data, creating pages, collecting payment, all the things so much simpler. One of our mottos at Boss Babe is simplify to amplify

and Kajabi has really helped us do that this year. So of course I needed to share it here with you. It's the perfect time of year to do a bit of spring cleaning in your business you know. Get rid of the complexity and instead really focus on getting organized and making things as smooth as possible. I definitely recommend Kajabi to all of my clients and students. So if you're listening and haven't checked out Kajabi yet, now is the perfect time to do so because they are offering Boss Babe listeners a 30-day free trial. Go to kajabi.com slash Boss Babe to claim your 30-day free trial. That's kajabi.com slash boss babe to claim your 30 day free trial. That's kajabi.com slash boss babe. That is such a good call out. Okay. So that is a huge thing to be looking for also when you're interviewing for this role. Right hand needs to be somebody that's

creating direction, not asking for direction, right? I mean, of course there's going to be some level of exchange there where I'm trying to understand your vision. And as soon as I understand that, I need to be able to execute on that. But if I'm asking you constantly, well, do you want it this way or do you want it this way or do you want it this way? I mean, it's going to drive you insane, right? Like that's not what this role is for. This role is to create direction within the company so that you can focus where you need to focus. So I'd say something to think about and look out for in the interview process is how do they respond to your questions? Do they just kind of exude a natural leadership where they almost like take your

question, make it their own and then keep going with it? Or do they simply answer your question or ask you like, are they kind of putting it back on you or are they taking the interview and actually somewhat leading it themselves? Because that's a good indicator of their leadership qualities as well. Yeah, totally. And I'll call this out too, because I just want to set people up for success if they do hire an executive. But one thing that I love that you did was you went and outsourced coaching. You had your own place that you would go for coaching and support. And that really showed because you were someone that just would run with direction and created your own direction. And you would never came to me being like, what, what did you mean by this? And how do we,

like, it was never, like, I never felt like our calls were just like questions, question, question, question. It was, here's what I've done in this realm. How do you feel about this? Or what do we think about it was very collaborative and it felt really freeing and supportive. Whereas when you're working with someone who's perhaps earlier in their career and is still honing those skills, it's a different conversation. And you maybe have a conversation with them and say, you know, this didn't really hit the mark. Oh, well, I didn't really know what we were doing with XYZ. So I missed it out. And it's like, there was, there's no leadership and creative direction. That is another good call out. So it's not, yes. Okay. So it's also testing for how do they take ownership over their mistakes? I mean, every single person in their career is

going to make mistakes. So that's just a given, right? That's going to happen. But how do they own that? Do they say, well, I didn't have clear enough direction from you. Or do they say, you know what? You're right. That's on me. I should have done X, Y, or Z, or you know what? Next time I'm going to do X, Y, or Z. And how do they react to their own mistakes? And that's something when you're interviewing, you can ask them, what's the biggest mistake you made in your career? And how did you handle it? And see what they say. Like if they talk about, well, they didn't get good briefing or good direction. And then this happened and it was, are they victim mindset about it? Or are they like, yeah, here's what happened. It's my war story. Learn from it. Like, you know, so it's, it's how they talk about their mistakes as well.

Yeah. That's a really good call. Cause you do notice that with people at different stages of their career, early stages of their career, often they wouldn't call out their mistake. They kind of just hope no one noticed it. And if it does get called out, they're like, oh yeah, well, here's why it happened. And it's like a different mindset. Whereas if you're like someone further ahead in their career, they'll generally come to you and be like,

hey, just so you know, I totally messed this up. Here's what I did to fix it. It's like, it's not a big deal. Everyone knows that mistakes are happening, but they're quite forthcoming about it. Maybe there's a level of confidence there of like, I know these mistakes aren't defining me and I know I can solve them, but I want to be forthcoming with it. Yeah, I agree. And that's also something that you can infuse into the culture too. It's a culture

where you're not encouraging mistakes, but you are encouraging transparency on mistakes and they know they can say these things and it's going to be okay largely. And yeah, I agree. Like, I mean, the victim mindset, I think is one of the worst things for our culture. I agree. I think it's top down to like, if the founder is consistently having that kind of victim mindset, everything else is everyone else's fault or the economy's fault or it's like a lot of blame. It just passes that down. I think so much of it starts with how you show up. Agreed. So let's talk about your new direction then. What is it that you're excited about that you're creating next? Like what is your next chapter look like?

I know you're going out on your own and I know, but I'm curious what it's looking like. Yeah. So as a starting point, I'm going out into coaching, but that's taking a number of different forms right now. I'm doing one-on-one containers, but I'm also moving into a mastermind this spring that I'm creating. And I'd like to do a little bit more group and membership type programs, but all of it is under the umbrella of scaling. I'm super passionate about helping growth stage entrepreneurs scale their businesses. And when I say scale, I don't mean grow. I think a lot of people hear the word scale. Not everyone

understands completely what that means. It's all about how can you build more and grow? Yes, but by doing less or by streamlining. And so what that looks like for me is I focus on strategies. I mean, strategy is a big part of it and your business and product strategies, but also your systems and what do you have in place to make things more streamlined, smoother, easier, faster for you behind the scenes? So you're not having to spend a lot of time on things that aren't, you know, the growth side of the business, as well as team, as we've been talking, I'm super passionate about team.

And for a lot of entrepreneurs, especially in maybe the mid to high six, low seven figures, that is probably a very small team. It might even be some contractors, but even then there's dynamics that you can be encouraging that are going to help you grow and help you spend less time in the management piece of it and just have a more productive and happier team as well. So these are all the pieces that I'm really focused on helping business owners with. And I'm pretty much focused on that kind of mid six to eight figure entrepreneur. What do you think from in your experience limits people from scaling? Like if someone is in that mid six figure mark and they're just on this hamster wheel, like I'm not, I'm just

not reaching further than this. I'm blocking myself. I don't understand why. What are the common things that you see that causes that? Well, a big one could be the business and product strategy that they have. If they've not found a good way to really scale their offering, make more, maybe they're still trading their time for money, or maybe they are not thinking about the revenue model the right way so that they can actually hit a higher number without having to put as much effort into it like that hamster wheel you're talking about. I mean, usually I'll start with business strategy because that's a big part of it, business slash revenue strategy. And honestly, it's interesting too, and maybe this is a strength I have on the revenue side because I am so in tune with that and in tune

with the finances of the business. But I find that a lot of people aren't thinking that way too. And sometimes it's just a shift in how they think about the revenue model and that can make or break their hamster wheel situation. So it's that, but it's also, you know, maybe there's a lack of sophistication in their behind the scenes setup. And so they're having to spend a lot of time and effort and energy on things that if they were to automate that or bring in even a VA, like that could solve that problem for them and they could focus elsewhere. So a lot of it is on systems and their backend setup. And then honestly, the right team. So I find almost like the number one thing I hear is I have such a hard time hiring or I'm terrible at

hiring or I can't get performance out of the team or I can't trust them to do it the way I would. And there's a lot of team angst. So it's also helping people hire the right people and what to be thinking about what roles you actually need and streamlining the team that way. What do you say then in that situation? Let's say a common thing I hear all the time is no one does it the way I do.

No one does it as good as I do or I just can't get performance. Maybe they're churning through team members. Where would you start with that? So I would first start by looking at what's the track record? What's the history? What are the team members you've been bringing on? And what have they been doing? What hasn't been working? So we can do a bit of an audit and figure out what's history telling us here. And usually you can glean some insight from, okay, so it's always that I'm bringing on social media managers and this is a huge problem because they can never

do it the same way I would. And maybe that's true. In fact, it probably is. I think it's very difficult to hire a social media manager, but maybe the answer is not hiring the social media manager. Maybe the answer is hiring people for these other pieces in the business and you actually stay focused on your social content. So it's also in the strategy of how you're bringing a team and what you're focused on versus what they're focused on. Yeah. I just had that conversation this morning, actually with an agency owner.

And he was saying, you know, how do you think about content? How do you get your content going viral and feeling like you're, you're proud of what goes out? And one thing I said to him was, well, I realized my content is better when I have a heavy hand in it. So it's less of like, how am I outsourcing all of that? But how am I delegating the stuff that I know I can delegate out

so that I can focus on where I'm good at? I think every single founder should know the places that they excel and where their time should be spent. I don't think there's like a one size fits all. To some business owner, it would make no sense for them to do social media management. It might be like on the lower rungs of what their time's worth. But for another founder, that might be like the highest leverage

activity. I think there's a misconception that there's high leverage and low leverage activities that are the same for every founder. It's so different. And the minute I learned that and I probably accepted that as a founder, things changed for me. Because you're no longer resisting it, you're going with it, and able to craft the role around what actually makes sense for you. That is 1000% true. And I think what happens is, you know, there's so much information out there about how you should be running your business. And I know there's also like, people know, there's so much information out there about how you should be running your business. And I know there's also like people know, stay in your lane, stay in your lane, but it's hard because you are comparing yourself. And that's so common. And I think people hear, oh, well,

I need to be hiring this, or I should be outsourcing this or delegating X, Y, or Z. They're just trying to figure it out because they also don't know. They've not done this before. And it's trial and error, but they're following formulas that actually aren't right for them. And so that's a huge, huge piece of it. What are you really good at and what's going to drive the business and move the needle that is your unique ability. So stay there and delegate the other things, even if it's like not a traditional thing to delegate and that's okay. Yeah. I think that's an absolute game changer. And then even when you're, if you're listening to this and you're looking for your right hand or thinking about having a right hand in business,

I think knowing, I call it the elevate and delegate because it's from traction. Knowing that, knowing what your superpower is and where your blind spots are, I think is the exercise you should do before you go and start hiring because you really want to attract someone that has different skills to you.

Otherwise, if you have two people with the exact same skills, you'll probably be a terrible team. Yeah. Oh my gosh. You have to compliment each other. It should be like the yin and yang, right? Especially with your right hand. And for some people, that means they're coming in, but you're a strong marketer. You needed somebody that was going to be strong with the team and the systems and behind the scenes. But there could be another business owner who's actually really good on the operations side. And some are, but marketing is where they need help. So they should be bringing in more of a CMO type. So I mean, it really, yes, it really depends on what your unique abilities are. Okay. I'm going to put you on the spot a little bit here. Cause I feel like everyone listening

is probably going to want to know the answer to this question. Is there like some tea you can give on Boss Babe? Like what is it really like behind the scenes or what is Natalie really like? What is something people might not know about me? Like, is there anything that comes to mind? Cause I feel like if I don't ask this, I'm just doing my audience disservice. I'm going to be listening, being like, that's what I really wanted to know. Oh my gosh. Okay. Wow. Let me think. I mean, when it comes to you, Natalie, like, honestly, I feel like you are the person that before I started working at Boss Babe that I saw on Instagram and on the podcast. And I don't know,

you're not a different person behind the scenes. And I know some people are, to be honest. Okay, that's good. But you're not, you're not at all. What would be surprising though? Let's see. I don't know if I'm surprised by this per se, but something I definitely noticed is you're somebody that you don't need to see all the details of how the sausage gets made. You're like, here's my vision. Right. And you're really good at painting that. Cause you'll bring up your decks. You're like, I got to share, you know, you're all like, yeah, you got to share. And then it was like, okay, that's it. So we'll launch in like a few weeks. And then it was like, okay. So, but that's,

that's just, you know, all right. So we'll figure it out. And you really weren't super concerned with the how a lot of times it was more just like, this is it. And this is what it's going to be. And then that's kind of what would happen because then we just rally around that. We're like, okay, we'll do it. And then of course you're like reviewing things here and there, but I don't know. So that was maybe the thing that I like think about when I think about working with you is how you're like, okay, here's the vision. Okay. Bye. See you soon. That's such a good call. Cause I feel like that's one of those things too, that you kind of got to know that about yourself. If you're that kind of person and you're looking to hire right hand, like they've got to be interested in figuring out the how they've got to be willing

to go and figure out the how I'm so not that person. I'm always like, I trust there's a way. So let that be a way. And honestly you did like, so that was another thing I'm always like, I trust there's a way. So let there be a way. And honestly, you did like, so that was another thing I guess I'll call out is that you really do move with intuition. That's something I've definitely noticed more so than anyone else I've worked with. And you just trust and it does work out. So there's something to it. I'm like the definition of a trust fall. I'm like, yeah, I'll jump. Like I'm almost positive there's a parachute attached to my back. Let's try.

I mean, so far it's worked. So that is, yeah, that is a really good call out. But again, I do think that's something that people need to know. I remember when I learned this about myself in university, which I feel very, very lucky about because we were doing like personality testing and I learned about myself.

I'm not a finisher. I'm really good at getting things started. I'm not great at getting things over the line and like dotting the I's and crossing the T's. And learning about that myself, I just did a simple personality test was so powerful in figuring out who my co founders should be or who my partner should be who my employees should be. Because I knew, okay, I need to look for someone with that skill to like, they might not like getting stuff off the ground in the beginning, but they're really good at finishing things. And I think those personality tests, I think, although they're a dime a dozen, they're often very, very helpful. And even for us, we would always ask in interviews, their personality testing and would start to see how they might mesh with the team or match with

us. I think that is a real great hiring tip. I agree. And the other thing too, I mean, this is a little different, but what I found really interesting that we did as a team was we did our human design together and we reviewed together. We had a facilitator and we reviewed together everyone's different human design and strengths and where they're inclined and what's going to drive them crazy and all these things. So even, you know, once you're in the team or actually in the hiring process too, that could be useful. I found it to be pretty insightful. Actually, there were moments where we were like, oh my gosh, that's so you, like, you know, we were having those moments, but then it was also

learning moments also. Like one thing I took away from our relationship working together, having done that exercise was I learned that you, it drives you crazy to get asked an open-ended question versus if I were to say, Hey, here's the question, here's option one, here's option two. And you're actually reacting to something like that's a much better place for you to be, you know, giving your response in that way. So just little things like that too, of like the working dynamics. I think it really helps to have that insight on people. Yeah. Really good call. And same, what I learned about you is you often like to sleep on things. You don't love to just make really fast decisions. And it's so good to know if someone works like that, because you don't go into a conversation expecting a decision or expecting like their thoughts on something. You can pitch

something and just because they don't give you your thoughts right away doesn't mean it's a bad idea it means they digest information very very differently yeah well and that's actually another call out that i didn't think of earlier until you said this is another observation i had in working with you and working together is how fast you make decisions. Like you make decisions really fast. Sometimes I'm like, okay, I'm going to give her something. She's going to sleep on this. Like, I don't know. It's a big deal. And then you're like, okay, this, we got it moving on. Like, oh my gosh, she knows. But that's moving with your gut too, of course, you know? I'm like, next, what's next?

Yep. It's like, all right, well, that was easy. I love making a decision so I want to talk about what you're doing next and also you know just talk really candidly about whether you think anyone listening the podcast might be a fit for what you're doing tell me a little bit about who your ideal client would look like and what you are helping women and entrepreneurs with right now and let's see if anyone in the audience is actually looking for your support because I mean, you supported our business so much. I am eternally grateful, especially for the season you helped me get through, but just everything you did in my business. And you also have since consulted with one of my closest friends and you and I have

both seen the message. She said you changed her entire business and give her faith in hiring and scaling in a way that she had never had before. I know how magic you are. She knows how magic you are. I won't say her name just in case she wants to keep it private. I don't know, but I want other people to experience your magic. So tell us a little bit about what an ideal candidate for working with you might look like. Yeah. So, okay. For me, it is an entrepreneur and I am focused on women. It's a business owner that is seeing traction in their business. So maybe they are at least at that mid six figure mark, if we're going to put out numbers, but they're seeing traction in their business. They're feeling like they see a path, they're seeing success, but they're stressed out. Maybe they're overwhelmed. Maybe they're feeling like they could be scaling more efficiently or smarter.

And they would like to see more time back in their lives, more mental space and mental capacity back in their lives. And so now they're looking for support in, it could be a number of things. They might not know. They don't have to know. They can come to me and be like, I don't know, I'm overwhelmed, or I don't have the time I want to have, or I don't have the peace of mind I want to have. I'm seeing good sales, but here's my issue.

And then I can look at that and say, okay, well, here's what I see, right? Usually I'm pretty good at seeing this pretty quickly. And it's usually some combination of their behind the scenes setup. Should they be bringing on team or should they, how dialed in is their team if they have one? And what is their business and revenue strategy? And are there just shifts that they could be making in the revenue strategy

that would actually allow them to scale faster? So that's pretty much my ideal. And those women are generally, for me, I think the best businesses I can be serving right now are either course creator businesses, memberships, coaching businesses, people that are in a really good position to scale. And they're able to sell usually some form of like knowledge or energetics.

Okay. And what's the best process if someone is thinking that's them? Yeah. So I have a website, marisaleason.com, and we can put it in the show notes. And actually, I am offering our Boss Babe listeners an opportunity to have a free session with me. And in that session, what I will do is facilitate you through some questions. So I have an understanding of what's going on in the business and maybe what the pain points are. And then in the session, I'll do some coaching and mentoring and walk you out with a plan that could be a good action plan for immediately starting to see relief on the symptoms that you're feeling. So that is something I'm offering this particular audience exclusively. And what I'll do there is choose five listeners that I'll do a strategy

session with. So what you can do to apply for that is just simply go to marisaleason.com backslash boss babe, and go ahead and fill in your name and email, and I'll be in touch and take the rest from there. But otherwise on the site, I also have a booking of a session, just more of a discovery understanding type session. It's not quite a strategy session, but it's more for me to understand your business and see if there's something that we can work together on. I'm also going to be launching a mastermind in the spring. And that is all for exactly this type of woman that I talked about. Somebody that's seeing traction in their business and wants to scale further.

And that mastermind is going to be all about scaling. I mean, that is a no brainer. You guys go and apply for that coaching session. That is an absolute no brainer. I also know the power of what you can do in an hour. The amount of times I have brought things to you that feel so catastrophic and you're like, we got this. So that is is amazing I am so excited for you Marissa and I also I want to show people too that you can be in a career and transition out and it can feel

really good and you can still both support each other like you know that gets to be more evidence of this especially with women out in the world. And I just really want others to see this. And maybe if you are working in a company right now and you desire to leave, maybe this will instill some confidence in you that you can do it in a really great way. Yes. Yes. I mean, because really it's also mindset too. And working together, I gained a lot of mindset confidence around going out

on my own. I guess that's a byproduct of working at Boss Babe. But really, it's all about what are the things you're good at helping people with? And how can you repackage that in different ways? And it could be at a full-time job, it could be on your own, but it's intrinsically the same things. And it's just thinking about it in different ways. So I appreciate your support. It's been amazing that I could just come to you and I knew I could and be honest and just explain where I'm at in my journey and you were super supportive about it. And here we are.

And I'm just eternally grateful. So thank you. I'm so excited for you. And I'm excited for everyone that gets to work with you and experience your magic firsthand. So maristatleason.com slash boss, we will put the link in the show notes as well so that you can click. I think it's a no brainer for everyone

to apply for this. It's a game changer. And then beyond that, where can everyone find you and just follow your journey and see what this unfolds? Yeah. So my Instagram is at marisaleason. So similar to my website and yeah, I'm on there most days. So happy to have you follow. Amazing. Thank you for doing this. Yeah. Thank you, Natalie.