the bossbabe podcast - 35. How to Build a Clothing Company into a Data-Driven Global Lifestyle Brand with Debra Polanco of Sanctuary

Episode Date: September 18, 2019

Join Natalie and Danielle as they interview Debra Polanco, the co-founder and Chief Creative Officer of Sanctuary. Deb is a true visionary and in this episode, she shares how to organically build a global lifestyle brand, how to position your brand at the forefront of an ever-evolving industry, and why it’s vital to listen to your customer. Deb, Natalie, and Danielle discuss why it’s so crucial to be a data-driven company, how to be creative in business, and the importance of having strong core values within a brand or company. Deb also talks about hiring a like-minded team who are passionate and aligned with the company vision, as well as how Sanctuary is leading the way for brands in the eco-movement to drive social and environmental change. Use the code BossBabe25 for $25 off your purchase at sanctuaryclothing.com and follow @sanctuaryclothing & the #WhatMatters campaign on IG. Discover how to grow your audience on Instagram by 10,000 ideal clients in 30 days: bossbabe.com/ig-growth

Having a family and starting the business all at the same time, once I got past that, everything else just seems so easy. If you're going to be in my industry, in this industry anyways, you have to have the passion for it. It's just very competitive. There's a lot of people that would love to have the job. One thing that I've learned when people immediately don't like something, guess what? That means it's new. Welcome to the Boss Babe podcast, a place where we share with you the real behind the scenes of both successful businesses, achieving the performance and learning how to balance it all. I'm Danielle Canty, co-founder of Boss Babe and on this week's episode I'm joined by my beautiful business bestie Natalie Ellis and in this episode we have the pleasure of

interviewing the amazing visionary that is Debra Polanco, co-founder and chief creative officer of Soundtree Clothing. Now Debra really is a true visionary. She started the clothing brand Soundtree with her husband, Ken, in 1997. And at that time, as you'll hear when she tells a story, they were a really small company just specializing in making really well fitting pants. And over the years, they have worked so hard to expand and grow. And the brand really has evolved significantly so that today they not only have a full range of clothing items, but also inclusive sizing, which in today's market is super, super important. And in our opinion, what really makes Century even more special is not only do they have beautiful clothes and they really embrace this kind of laid-back Californian style combined with the effortless attitude in New York but Sanctuary is at the forefront of the eco movement and really dedicated to making more

socially and environmentally conscious clothing something that I think is really important to have behind every brand nowadays. Now, in this episode, Deborah shares how she has remained adaptive as the landscape of her industry has changed and how she went from creating just pants to creating that whole clothing range. And we spoke about getting her first customers when social media didn't even exist and how her husband has grown a successful business while she's actually creating a family as well. She's a mum of three. So there are so many themes threaded into this episode. And so for this week's Accompanying Boss Babe Grow, I've chosen this. There are two things in life that you have control of, your attitude and your

effort. And I think that's always a great reminder that sometimes when times are hard, it's the way you see it, confront it and then act on it, which will really set you apart. So I just want to thank Deborah for an amazing interview. I'm sure that so many of you are going to be inspired to check out Sanctuary's beautiful website at sanctuaryclothing.com. And when you do, you can utilize the promo code bossbabe25 for 25% off and this for they are encompassing one single concept what matters to you and they're doing this huge campaign and it's really really aligned with boss babe because they are featuring inspirational and dedicated stories from women who are paving the

way. So female entrepreneurs, artists, activists, super moms, they are sharing their stories on their platform and how they are making a difference in their industries, communities and beyond. So if you want to follow along or join in, please use the hashtag what matters, hashtag it all matters, hashtags you matter. And we'd love to see a lot of you guys shouting that out and just sharing what matters to you. A boss babe is unapologetically ambitious and paves the way for herself and other women to rise, keep going and fighting on. She is on a mission to be her best self in all areas. It's just believing in yourself, confidently stepping outside her comfort zone to create her own version of success.

Welcome Deb to the podcast. We are so, so excited to have you here today. And it's so amazing that Danielle and I get to do this as a group conversation, which is super fun. So for those listening, I would love to just dive in and start to hear a little bit about your story and how you got started in business in the first place. Okay, great. Well, Danielle and Natalie, thank you so much for having me. So where should we start? Oh my gosh. How far back do you want to go? When did you have the idea for you and your husband to come together to create this? Okay. Well, let's start there. So actually, the funny thing is we met in a parking lot. We were working in two buildings side by side.

We kind of just decided to go in business together. My husband at the time, so funny, he says to me, Deb, instead of walking into that door, just walk into this door and we'll be 50-50 partners and you can just keep doing what you do. And at the time, I thought that was hilarious, but I thought, what the heck? I'm going to try it. Let's go for it. I'll be an entrepreneur. Why not? So when we started out, we were doing exclusive designs for a really big chain store in America. And then at one point, we decided, what the heck are we doing? At that point, we were married, I had my two first daughters back to back. And we just kind of didn't like what we were doing. So we said, Okay, that's it. We're closing our doors. We're taking a year off. We rented a house down in

Mexico, got all our ideas together. And then we were ready to kind of start over again because we have such passion for the business. We love the business. We took a road trip to New Mexico and we went to this cute little town that had this amazing chapel that had this healing dirt in Chimayo. And we're sitting there. And as my husband likes to say, of course, we go have a margarita afterwards. And we're doing the old school writing down the pros and cons, what we liked about the business, what we don't like about the business. And then he's like, what should we call this new business? And then I looked up to the chapel and it was called the Sanctuario de Tamayo. And I was like, sanctuary, this would be amazing.

So really from that day forward, we decided to call it sanctuary. We reinvented ourselves. I had never designed bottoms. And so I thought, you know, I'm just going to do something brand new, really hard. And every woman loves her pants when they fit great. And so let's just start with that. And we really just started with five bottoms. And we kind of stayed there, honestly, for like five years because we're raising the girls. And I had another one.

So I actually have three daughters now. So it was just kind of like this whole stock and replenishment reorder basis of just bottoms. And then at one point, you know, the kids are in school, the kids are all right. So we just decided to expand the collection, kind of like taking over one category at a time. So introducing jackets and then blouses and dresses and finally becoming you know now what is 22 years later a full lifestyle brand. I love that so did you and your husband Ken from the beginning have really defined rules about what you'd come into the business and do? Well Ken's always been an entrepreneur and he's always been super, super supportive. He's very creative in

business and he's really good with people. And so he really, you know, is this kind of can do person. It was like, okay, we got to get a building. Now we got to figure this out. We got to do this. We got to do that. And I've just always been a creative and a visionary and just really honestly, just super into fashion. I started sewing my own clothes. I got my first sewing machine. I think I was seven to tell you the truth. And then I kept upgrading my machine along the way. So just have always, always been into fashion and Ken as well. He loves fashion. So we kind of, the two of us together combined, it was really just a perfect partnership. I love that it sounds like it's like a full family business, like you started it, you've had your children through it. Have the

girls been involved with the growth of Sanctuary as well? Well, it's funny because we've had such a kind of an indie lifestyle all along the way. And sometimes they joke because I'd plan my vacations around. I mean, everybody has the internet now. You can see the world through your screen at your desk, but it didn't used to be that way. It was all done by foot. So I'd be like, we have to go to Saint-Tropez. I heard it's amazing.

I need to see what they're wearing. We'd be sitting at the cafes and the girls would be like, oh my gosh. But then they would start to sketch things. And then I'd be like, be on the lookout for this and make it a game for them. Every time you spotted this, let me know. I think this is really amazing because I think like what happens is like when you have a business that can be so consuming so all-consuming and I think it's just really amazing to hear about a true family business and this it sounds like that's what sanctuary is like your girls have been like you say watching you from the beginning and you've incorporated your family holidays into it. Like, has that been something that was very natural or have you had to like

really make an effort to bring the girls in or have there been like difficulties where sometimes they've been resentful from the business, like between you and your husband, like, how have you juggled that? Well, you know, it's funny because when I first started kind of coming into the career world in the eighties and it was was all about you can have a career and you could be a working woman. And, you know, everyone that I knew was like, this is great. You know, we're going to change the world. But then at the same time, it was like, but you can have it all, but not at the same time. So there was women that chose to stay home and raise their kids.

And then there was women that decided to go into the workplace. And of course, me being defiant, I was like, I don't understand why I can't have it all. I don't understand why I can't have it all at the same time. Because I really wasn't willing to sacrifice either. I wanted to have a family, but I wanted to pursue my passion. So I just knew it had to somehow be able to just all work together. We had a room in our first office. It was so funny. And it had all their desks. And I let them go to Ikea and pick out their pink chairs or whatever they wanted.

They could decorate everything the way they wanted. But they had to get picked up after school, come back to work, sit there, do their homework. And they had to stay at work until we were ready to leave. And that's just the way it was. But it was kind of like everybody was okay. And they had their sisters and then they'd go play in the fabric rolls in the back. And, you know, it just kind of, it just worked really. Let's take a quick pause to talk about my new favorite all-in-one platform, Kajabi. You know, I've been singing their praises lately because they have helped our business run so much smoother and with way less complexity, which I love. Not to mention our team couldn't be happier

because now everything is in one place. So it makes collecting data, creating pages, collecting payment, all the things so much simpler. One of our mottos at Boss Babe is simplify to amplify and Kajabi has really helped us do that this year. So of course I needed to share it here with you. It's the perfect time of year to do a bit of spring cleaning in your business, you know. Get rid of the complexity and instead really focus on getting organized and making things as smooth as possible.

I definitely recommend Kajabi to all of my clients and students so if you're listening and haven't checked out Kajabi yet now is the perfect time to do so because they are offering Boss Babe listeners a 30-day free trial go to kajabi.com slash Boss Babe to claim your 30-day free trial that's kajabi.com slash Boss Babe I love that so much and I bet they've got such an incredible work ethic from seeing that so let's go back so you had idea, you would create pants from the beginning, that was going to be the first product. And so you went into that, obviously, you had so much experience in this world. But when it came to actually marketing this product and getting your brand out there, social media didn't even exist. So how did you go about that?

Well, it's funny, because we have a really big specialty store base. These are like the mom and pop stores across America. And I love them. Our brand was really built by them organically, one little boutique at a time. And really, it was getting in the car, going knocking on the door, having your little duffel bag, selling some pants, then they sell, and then they reorder more. And it was kind of like that until we ended up going to the trade shows, meeting more stores, getting a few international accounts, and really just one store at a time. And was that easy getting a store on board? I think because there weren't so many brands and fashion available.

And these people were just so appreciative that you would come to the store and bring it to them because people didn't maybe travel as much to the shows that it was like, sure, I'll try it. But it worked and it sold and our pants have always fit great. That was one of the things like now we can actually call ourselves master pant makers. I love that. And it is all about the right timing. You create something with the total right timing. So whether someone gets in early on social media or whatever it is, when there's that space, it can be great. Timing is everything. It really is. And so how

has things progressed from having this company where you're just starting to make pants, it's you and your husband to being the company it is now? How has that been for you? The whole process of designing an entire brand and hiring a team to support you and really growing the business in that way, it must be so different to what your original skill set was. Yes, absolutely. Then all of a sudden I became a business owner and a chief and it's definitely a learning curve.

But you know, we really have amazing people. It's important to hire right, I think for sure. Everybody that works for us really does kind of act as an entrepreneur and they have to be totally responsible for their business. So really hiring like-minded people at the same time, really getting them to grow at the company. We have a lot of people that have been here for a long time, but we also have a lot of new people, which I love in the design room. It's been great. I love that because Natty and I always say the same, like we hire a lot of entrepreneurs really within our company they have their own products that they're really like running with and having a scale at boss babe and then also we

talk about hiring on attitude rather than always skill set and I think skill set's important but if someone comes into a small business and they're not the right culture for it really is important to act on that because it doesn't take much for that kind of like one person to have a different values to actually have a different values to actually have a knock on effect on everybody. So I love that you're highlighting that too. Yeah, absolutely. I think hiring like-minded people is super important and just people that are positive that they can do. And because really we can train you, but coming in and just really having the passion because there's so many people out

there that have passion for fashion. So you really, if you're going to be in my industry, in this industry anyways, you have to have the passion for it because it's just very competitive. There's a lot of people that would love to have the job. Yeah, I can imagine. What's been one of the hardest times in business for you so far? Has there been like a moment that really stands out to you where you thought, you know what, like, I don't know if I want to do this or this might not work out or just being really hard? It's funny. It's all hard sometimes.

At this point, though, I have to tell you, like most of the problems, I've seen them before. Hopefully we don't repeat them. But when things come up and maybe some of the younger staff will come and they just look so perplexed and I just can almost laugh because I already know what the answer is. Let them, of course, try to solve it first. But I don't know. I think the hardest part was really having a family and starting the business all at the same time. Once I got past that, everything else just seems so easy. The kids are great. Like everyone's creating their own life

and their own dream. And so I can't imagine anything being harder than doing that at the beginning. You said something there that I would love to dive into. You said, let them solve it first. How do you do that? If someone comes to you with a problem and you know how to solve it and you know, kind of try to let them come up with the answer first on their own. And then if they completely can't come up with the answer, then of course, I'm always ready to jump in and help. I love that. I think that's quite hard, though, sometimes as a leader, I know Natalie and I are probably thinking the same thing, like, when you kind of really just kind of jump in and take over versus actually when you're asking the right questions and really trying to nurture that within the people that are kind of coming up the ranks and supporting you, I think is definitely a skill set as an entrepreneur. We're all learning and nurturing ourselves.

Well, I think it just takes a lot of patience. It really takes a lot of patience. If you're in a time crunch, of course, you're just going to be like, okay, bing, bing, boom. Let's move on to something bigger. Right now, there's a really great generational balance. There's some that are growing up, and then there's some that are growing great. And I really think that it's the combination of both generations. That's a really great thing right now. I love that.

And so I want to also dive in. And I know we've covered a little bit about this, but in the beginning, so you had your family at the exact same time that you were starting a business. And as entrepreneurs, it's not like you get this paid maternity leave. It's not like you get all of these luxuries so that you can take some time off to just have your mind in one thing at once. And so was it a conscious decision that you decided you were going to just do these things at the same time and plan it out? Or did it kind of all just happen all at once and you were like,

I need to figure this out? In which case, how did you do that from being pregnant to still be running a business and then having babies running around that are demanding so much of your time whilst your husband's also trying to work and be with family as well? Like how did all of you make that work? Was it still just the rule division? We definitely have our departments and we have the final say in our departments. Although because we both love products so much, we definitely listen to each other about the product as far as the taste and are we going to go out with this or going to go out with that? I mean, at this point, we have full teams for everything. So we try to all hold hands.

I guess when we started, it's like I just didn't have a choice. Like I chose to do both. And so I just had to figure it out. I mean, I'm not going to lie. I did have a nanny that came every day. And it's really funny because one of my first offices was in the house while I was still pregnant. And I had to actually get dressed, walk out the front door, say goodbye to the girls, and then walk back into the house in the side door.

And the door was locked from the home side. And the nanny was under strict instructions that they were not allowed to know I was there. And then I would go back out the door at lunchtime, meet him in the kitchen for lunch, go back out. In the meantime, I was one room away. Yeah, there's a lot of people listening to this just like, yes, that is exactly what I'm doing. And I think that's so interesting, that division of work and home as well, especially when you are working from home, I think them lines can be blurred and people are like, well, what are you actually doing if you're there? So 20 years on, you've gone from having this idea to create the perfect pair of pants to actually having a full collection. So why did

you decide to really branch out and create a full collection? And what does this collection stand for? Well, it's really just been our dream. We just felt like it was time for a new lifestyle collection. Our style in general is modern. And we've lived in mid-century moderns our whole life. And we've kind of lived a minimal life, not with a lot of things or clutter or houses, very, very simple inside. I was actually that mom that would drive the girls through McDonald's and I'd be like, hold the toy. We don't want the toy. And then the backseat, you would hear, ah, darn, not today. Because I was like, we don't need the stuff. It's plastic. It's bad for the environment. We're not doing that. We kind of just carried really our values into the line of just trying

to be like modern, timeless, ageless. And then obviously we wanted to be accessible. We wanted to be affordable for a working girl. Yeah. I think that's one of the things I love most about the collection is it looks so high end, so amazingly put together, so well made, and the price is incredible. And so that's always been an intention of yours is to make it really accessible. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. Just really giving them the quality for the value and built to live. I'm kind of one of those people that loves going to the flea markets and the thrift stores.

And I would always say, you know, I'm going to be doing it at 90 years old, but I would love to be able to see like Sanctuary in the store because the garment survived. I love that. I think it's actually a really interesting topic. Now we're all becoming more aware about creating things that are environmentally friendly and I know you talk about you know sanctuary being a global lifestyle brand with a conscience and we live in an era where there's a lot of fast fashion like people will wear things once and like throw them back out so like how do you create garments that one are built to last

and how do you encourage people to really hold on to their garments or to recycle them or to utilize them season over season like how do you kind of get that message across to your customer well I also think part of it starts with the design because we try to be on trend but not trendy every woman wants to feel relevant so you want to feel current you want to feel relevant but you don't want to have to maybe step down to fast fashion at a certain age because you know you're going to wear it and throw it away. And there's this whole new enlightenment now and everybody's trying to fix the future. So I think that people are sort of in this post-consumerism mindset. And I even see myself doing it absolutely like choosing before I buy

because I want to buy right. I want to be able to wear it a lot. So really kind of designing things that you can wear for a few seasons. They don't feel like they're gone in one season. And then really just taking the steps to the sustainable approach, which we've been trying to work on for the last two years now. Which is? Well, I guess when they first came out with the, you know, the UN came out with their sustainable goals. These are big, big goals. It's not just clothing. We're one part of it. But these are goals as far as like, oh my gosh, it goes from the air to the sea, the social aspect of it. You know, these are like earth's problems, these goals, right? But being in the garment industry, and we are one of the biggest contributors to the pollution of the way we're processing, I just took it so serious and said, we have to start

doing things. So we actually set up a sustainable task force was in the company, anybody that wanted to be on the committee and kind of started coming up with ideas. So not only are we inward facing as far as, you know, no more water bottles in the company, and we put the reverse osmosis machines and everything and just trying to do as much as we can here. Internally, there's also, you know, the product level. And then my husband last year took a big trip east and went to find new partners that were more like-minded and new factories and at the factory level as well. So with the materiality side of the product, we're trying to use more low impact fibers. We're trying to look at all our processes. If there's a poly content using the recycled poly from the water bottles and using processes that use less water and chemicals and

energy as far as the washing process. So that's all on the product side, but then there's the factory side. So we're six months into bringing all our factories to being compliant. We're not perfect, but we're making a lot of progress. There's one amazing factory we found in Sri Lanka, and they're actually setting up this whole green discovery center that's supposed to be ready in October. So I'm really excited to go visit them because I would love to discover more ideas and ways of doing things for our business. And then there's the whole social side of it is really supporting people that are going to go the extra mile to benefit their employees in the community. So there's a lot of things you can

look at and really try to make changes. Yeah. And I was really interested when I looked at your denim and how you were saying one pair of denim uses one glass of water when you put them in the wash and that saves 95% of water that it normally takes to wash a pair of jeans. I had no idea about that. Is that why people are supposed to wash jeans less? Well, in the process, think about it. You're using so much water going in and then rinsing coming out. So they you know, they've developed this new equipment. And so finding the factories that are using it is amazing. So it goes through a whole process with very minimal water, which is amazing. And you still get the soft hand.

Yeah, I love that. And I think it all really shows so much about the kind of company that you do run. And I know you're very vocal about your company values. How did you, well, firstly come to developing these values, but make sure your team are bought in. I think that can be one of the hardest things is, you know, you set the values, but do people really act on them every single day? Do people even know them if you were to ask someone in the company? So how have you been able to really instill all of these values in everyone that works for you? I think a lot of it is trying to show by example, which has really been kind of my number one thing, even as being a mom. I think that's the best way to show anyone. So if you really act with integrity, I think being 100% transparent is super important. You know, whenever you get in a jam, it's okay.

Just step up to the plate. I messed up. This is where we're at, you know, and then we can move on. So really just, I think that's so important. And that kind of brings us to the succeeding together. Problem presented is half solved is what we always say. So just say it, it's okay. And then we can solve it together

and succeed together. The next one we say is inspire innovation. So really just trying to think of new ideas and really trying to be a smart player and trying to be creative. I know one of your full campaigns is What Matters to You. And I've seen already some influencers talking about this, which is just incredible. So did that come about because of these strong values that you hold? And what is this campaign going to be looking at? Well, it's funny, because when we were kind of looking at all our big ideas for the year, and I have them all up on my wall here, and part of it was you matter, which is, you know, one of our values and really just kind of from the employees to the customers and everything, we just made it one of our values because everyone matters. And so we

thought that's amazing. Let's just try to adopt that for the campaign. So our campaign for fall is what matters to you. And we're trying to really try to feature inspirational women who are kind of paving the way and dedicating stories to them as far as female entrepreneurs and moms and artists and activists and really just showing how they make a difference in their community or industry. I love that. We're all about shouting out other women at Boss Babe. Is there anyone that you've like interviewed so far or featured so far where you're like, actually, this is amazing and their story needs to be shared further? Oh my gosh, there's so many. There's so many. You have to stay tuned and follow us. We are doing a really fun edit with Cezanne Hendricks and that is, or we'll have just gone live on the 15th. So we're super excited about that.

We have another edit coming up with another key entrepreneur that we love in a couple of weeks too. I love it. That's so cool. And so we've talked about what your journey was like and what you really stand for and what your company stands for. But underlying all of this, I think one thing you must have had to get so right is listening to your customer and really being able to move with them because chances are you've listened to them saying they wanted to see more from the brand. They wanted to see all of the collections that you've came up with. So do you have a kind of framework that you use to really make sure you're always going

back and listening to what the customer wants and letting that inform the strategy and the way that you go? Or do you do it based on like your gut instinct or how you feel like, are you designing for you? Or do you have someone in mind that you're designing for? Well, it's so funny because it's really changed over the years. In the beginning, like I said, you were like doing the groundwork and bringing back the information to your buyers. So everybody was just so keen on like hearing what's new and bringing Europe to America. And so a lot of it, like they were following us, but at a certain point in the internet age, it's like everything's accessible to everyone. And

there's so many ideas out there. And we've always listened to our customer for feedback. We would get a call saying this one feels too short, too long, too tight, too small, too big, whatever. We love this color. We don't like this color. So we've kind of really taken all that into account. But absolutely now the customer's voice is the most important, is really like giving them what they want.

It's funny because my husband has this saying about, we're not in the women's business selling people, we're in the people business selling women's clothing. And I love that because it's so true where we have to listen to our customer. Do you have processes around that in the sense of like, do you ask them for feedback in certain ways? Do they submit it in certain ways? Or is it more just a feeling like you're on the ground, you're on social, you're listening to that? Like, do you have a process around the way you're listening to your customers? Well, there's so many ways. A lot of our customers have online stores. And so obviously, there's the comments. And so we have access to a lot of the customer feedback information on the comments, which is amazing. We get reports from all our customers, usually on Mondays. So we can find out, you know,

what are the best sellers? What are the slow sellers? And what do they want more of? What do they want less of? I think the customers are just really vocal now. So the information is coming in daily for sure. And we have such a great merchandising and sales team that they really do share so much information with us which is great so really just there's so many ways of collecting data right now it's great and that's really key actually and i was having a chat the other week behind the scenes of boss babe about making sure we're very data driven and i think you just picked up on it there saying okay like what's selling well what's selling slower and making decisions

based on that rather than thinking that we know what everybody wants like really tuning in and listening to the client whether it be like you say their vocal feedback or actually what their buying habits are and I think we have a lot of women who are starting their businesses or growing and scaling and that's definitely one thing I think is really key is just like tapping into putting your own feelings aside and actually thinking and looking at the data and going, hey, what are people buying and what are they not making decisions on that? Our customers actually change, too. You know, when we first started, we used to say that we sold the mom of the millennial.

And now we actually are selling the millennial mom as well. So actually, I think maybe three years ago now, we said we're going to start just designing for the bullseye. So that's why we like to say we're like one of the favorite mother-daughter brands. I wouldn't necessarily say we invented this because I think it all started with premium denim because that's one area where the moms and daughters will wear the same pants. I think the difference is before the millennials became of working age, mom was buying the premium denim. And now there's a lot of working millennials, like not all premium brands are affordable to a working girl. So we decided, okay, we have to cater to them both. We call it the bullseye. And what we really try to do is kind of look at the psychographic and

what they have in common. What do they both want to wear? What do I want to wear? What is my 22 year old daughter want to wear? What are the girls in the company want to wear? We have a lot of twenties and thirties working for us, but if everybody votes on it, to wear? We have a lot of 20s and 30s working for us. But if everybody votes on it, then we know we have a win. And then we've hit the bullseye is what we call it. Oh, that's so interesting. I'd not heard of that term before the bull. So that means you hit something that is accessible to multiple customers at one time. Is that how you sum it up? Yes, like the little leopard slip skirt. I've got it. Yeah. That's so interesting because a lot of companies, I think really struggle to nail in one target person or one ideal customer. And so bringing that together

and doing it in that way, super, super interesting. I've not heard of that before. Yeah. So it's definitely been working for us and we all vote on everything here and just make sure that everyone loves it. And then we know we have a winner. What if it's polarizing in the sense of like 50% of people absolutely adore it and 50% hate it. Do you prefer going with the one that the consensus all like, or do you do something that's polarizing that people either love or hate? Well, it's, it's interesting that you say that because I mean, usually there's not a big hate like that. But one thing that I've learned when people immediately don't like

something, and this is what I tell the design team, guess what? That means it's new. They haven't seen it before. Because it takes people usually, when you're comfortable with something, it's in your psyche, you've seen it before. So you're comfortable with something, it's in your psyche. You've seen it before. So you're comfortable with it. But if you immediately say, I don't like that, it's probably because I don't know that. And so that means it's new. So I would probably go with the 50% loves to tell you the truth. I think it's super, super interesting. And I totally agree. If they don't love it, they might not have even heard of it before. And the reason I ask is we have the same internally. So for us, a lot of our product is content-based. And so we put something out there that we try and

get that, like we'd rather half the team just absolutely love it than everyone on the team to just like it. And so it's really, really interesting. I'm going to dive into the bullseye thing. And I think trying to understand how you can serve multiple people with one product is really, really interesting. And I think as you're growing as a brand, it's super important because you can't always just serve this one person. It doesn't always give you that scalability. Right. But we also talked about people that like it and then the people maybe that don't like it, right? But we were talking about listening to our customers, right the people maybe that don't like it, right? But we were talking about listening to our customers, right? And so we all are our customers, really.

Your team is your customer. My team is my customer. So maybe the truth lies somewhere in the middle. And maybe there is a place where everyone, what is it that you don't like about it? And what is it that you love about it? And maybe we can keep the love and eliminate the dislike and find a better place actually to live is maybe the real solution. Do you do a lot of revisions on your designs? Oh, absolutely. Because we'll hold something up and they're like, oh my God, I love it so much. But that little extra thing on the sleeve is too girly and we're going to lose the woman.

So, okay, we'll tone that down just a smidgen. Is everyone happy now? And I think like when you're dealing with something so creative, like how do you get inspiration for being creative, Debra? Because I know Nati and I talk about this a lot where, you know, actually we try and batch our days where we're doing something creative on one day and then something very operational or, you know, a little bit more data-driven on another. Do you have that same challenge where actually just to get in creative and start with new designs, you have to kind of take yourself away, maybe go back to nature? Like, what does that look like for you? I feel like I'm on such a routine now from doing it for so many years. But example for yes, well, a couple weeks back, I should say, I was just having adventure day. So I said, you know what, I'm

just going to go all new places today. I heard about this one home store, I'm going to go there. I heard about this restaurant, I'm going to go there. I'm just going to people watch go to new places. So it just really takes you out of that, that mindset, because now you're open. And so that's really kind of like my first way of starting. Okay, let's start with a clean canvas. Let's go out, let's open up, and then kind of start taking new things in. I love that. I love that idea, too. I always try and do the same thing with like a morning routine. I'm like, today, I'm going to do a completely different routine to what I normally would and just see what happens. What I think is so incredible is you've spent over 20 years building this really incredible

business, this really amazing team. And we've heard like the way you run this business, the values, everything is so incredible. And so your journey's obviously changed so much. You now have this entire team supporting you and it's not that on the ground hustle that it probably was when you and your husband first had this idea probably your role and your lifestyle from it has changed significantly so I would love to hear from you now of what's changed and what your kind of day-to-day looks like and as the kind of CCO what you you really, really feel your role is and how you lean into that to support the rest of your team? Well, it's funny. I mean, the hustle is always

going to be there, but the hustle just changes for sure. I mean, for example, today I have to go look at new distribution centers, buildings, and it's only because maybe that's something Ken would have done, but you know, he's in New York, it's market week, he's deep into sales, he's doing what he needs to do. And this building came up. So he's like, Okay, you have to go check this out. So this is completely removed from the creative department. But it's fun, you know, and I get to meet new people. And that's always the best part about it. And you still live by that, that you're just happy to dive in wherever the business needs you at that point. Yeah, absolutely. I love that. And do you have that kind of value in your team too, where you'll all just dive in where it's needed and come together as like almost like a family? Yeah, I think so. I think that's part of, like I

said, hiring the like-minded people. So I feel like for the most part, everyone here really has no problem rolling up their sleeves because we do operate as a team and we know that we will succeed together. I love that. We always say we win as a team and we lose as a team. So we always know that like no matter what stage you're at, what your role is, you're willing to kind of jump in and support somebody else when they need it. And likewise, you know, you can expect the same. Yes, that's so true.

I love it and so for everyone listening how can they really dive into finding a little bit more about your brand and also how can they get to know this what matters to you campaign because I think it's something that's actually going to resonate really really highly with everyone listening I think it's so amazing to hear from inspirational women who are paving the way and doing it all in their own different way. So how can they start to listen to those stories that are coming out? Well, you can go to sanctuaryclothing.com, our website. And then as far as our Fall What Matters to You campaign, you can follow us on Instagram, Sanctuary Clothing.

And then all our hashtag, what matters, it all matters, you matter. So we're really excited about all the content. My understanding is Deb, you've been really kind and you're giving all our Boss Babe listeners $25 off their first purchase at sanctuaryclothing.com utilizing the code BossBabe25. So thank you so much for that. Yes, yes. We're sharing the love. Amazing. Well, thank you so, so much for everyone listening. Head to sanctuaryclothing.com or at sanctuaryclothing on Instagram. And what I would love from this episode is for you to take a screenshot right now, wherever you're listening. And I want you to write your biggest takeaway and tag me at IamNatalie, tag at bossway.inc,

tag at Danielle Canty, and also at Sanctuary Clothing so we can share and really understand what resonated with you. Is there like a part of this story that you're really, really feeling into or have you taken something away that maybe you're going to implement with your team? Would love to hear it. And as always, please drop us a rate and review and let us know what you love about the podcast. Thank you, ladies. Thank you, Danielle. Thank you, Natalie. That was really fun. That was great. If you love this episode, please subscribe and be sure to leave us a review. We want to hear what you enjoyed, what your main takeaways were, and also really want to know who you want to see on the show. And speaking of reviews, I've also got a little something on my sleeve for you.

So I want to send you a copy of The Boss Babe babe 25 this is a brand new resource that we've created and trust me you are going to love it so the boss babe 25 is the 25 essential resources you need for personal and professional growth seriously this little resource is like a little boss babe holy grail you are going to love it it covers everything from must-have products, our favorite books, rituals that we do daily, and little hacks to help you grow. So if you want a copy, it's really easy. Just leave us a review, screenshot that review, and email it to podcast at bossbabe.com. That is podcast at bossbabe.com. And we'll send you a free copy over within 24 hours. We love bringing you experts and interviews from other successful business owners so they can talk about their experiences and share information, tips and what

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