the bossbabe podcast - 394. Secrets To A Passionate Relationship + Unlocking Polarity As An Ambitious Woman with Natalie Ellis & Brendon Burchard

Episode Date: June 27, 2024

For the first time ever, Natalie sat down to share about her relationship with her husband + all things about how they prioritize their marriage while running 2 successful businesses and having a baby! This is a topic Natalie never really shares about - so if you’re interested in topics like keeping the passion alive after a baby, the specific routines that create connection, how to own your emotions, creating polarity between the feminine + masculine, and SO much more… then today’s episode is for you! If you’re an ambitious women (or even the breadwinner in your family), press play to learn specific techniques to help you nurture your partnership long-term! TIMESTAMPS 2:45 - Story of How Natalie Met Her Husband 6:50 - Keeping The Passion Alive  12:20 - Morning + Evening Relationship Routines 16:30 - Making Time To Connect 17:00 - Biggest Breakthroughs From Their Tantric Mastermind  21:00 - How To “Train” Your Partner on What You Want? 24:27 - Blaming + Owning Your Emotions 28:30 - Bitterness vs Fairness 30:17 - Pattern of Being Defensive + How To Fix It 32:45 - Polarity + Intimacy 34:15 - Feminine + Masculine Energy In Relationships 39:40 - Radical Honesty + Transparency RESOURCES + LINKS Join Growth Day To Access All of Natalie’s Keynotes & Unlock The Best High-Performance Systems + Tools.  Join The Société: Our Exclusive Membership To Help You Build A Freedom-Based Business. Get Our Weekly Newsletter & Get Insights From Natalie Every Single Week On All Things Strategy, Motherhood, Business Growth + More.  Drop Us A Review On The Podcast + Send Us A Screenshot & We’ll Send You Natalie’s 7-Figure Operating System Completely FREE (value $1,997)  FOLLOW bossbabe: @bossbabe.inc Natalie Ellis: @iamnatalie Brendon Burchard: @brendonburchard

Welcome back to the Boss Babe podcast. Okay, today we're going in a slightly different direction. So Brendan Burchard has this incredible platform called Growth Day and in there is personal development across all different topics. I speak in Growth Day, you know, almost every month and this one in particular I wanted to bring over from Growth Day and put on the podcast because it's a topic that I've actually never been interviewed on before so Brendan and I sat down to talk about relationships marriage and we really get into it in this episode and I wanted to bring it over here because I just think you'd really enjoy it specifically we talk about what it's like being an ambitious woman in relationship we talk about perhaps being the breadwinner, feminine masculine

dynamics. We talk about what it looks like to have really healthy communication in a relationship. We go all over, but it's really centered around building relationships. When you both are off doing your own thing, you're both growing, you're really committed to growth. And how can you come together and have a partnership and work as a team, even when you have your own individual goals? So I loved it. I hope you do too. And if you want more like this, I'm going to put our link for growth day in the show notes and you could head over there and check it out. So let's dive in. All right, everybody, I'm joined by CEO boss, Babe, Natalie Ellis, who I know you already love. And I'm actually really excited about this because I've wanted to ask her these questions myself.

Her and her husband, Steven, are an incredible couple, and they both run incredible businesses. They both have been incredibly busy. They have a child. They are building this large, huge business and have separate careers. And like all of us, they try to stay fit and healthy and eat well and be awesome to their teams. And the question that everyone always asks, like, how do you do that and still be in that place where you have joy and fun together, intimacy together, collaboration together?

In other words, how do you not kill yourself? How do you not like freak out when you're building something? So Natalie, I'm so excited that you're here and I'm just blessed to get to build this with you and have this conversation with you here today. I'm really excited to be here. And this is a topic I've wanted to talk about for a long time and I haven't. So this will probably be my first proper interview

on relationships. So I'm really excited. This is your first interview on relationships? I think so, yeah. I mean, I touch on it here and there, but this is the first time I'm getting a chance to like really go in detail in it, yeah. I'm so happy.

So maybe you can share a little bit with the audience as we begin in about your relationship. A little bit, just maybe a little briefly, how you two met. And then I want to get into what is it that you think makes a strong relationship between the two of you in which that vibrancy is still there? for seven years now and before we even met in our very in our late teens early 20s we both were really ambitious and we both had pretty good careers so he was actually one of the best video gamers in the entire world and he played professionally all around the world and I had multiple of my own companies um the most successful one of my early 20s being a supplement company and so we met still in our kind of mid 20s. But we both came together with big careers already, and really big aspirations.

And I always knew I wanted to be with someone that would be okay with me being a really ambitious woman, because I had dated many guys in the past that weren't okay with that. In fact, two of my relationships before I met Steven ended because I was so ambitious and I wanted to move to America and I wanted to have this big career. And that just wasn't fitting with the kind of guys I was attracting, I guess. So when I met Steven, it felt very quickly, it felt like this was a fit because he was really supportive. He grew up around a really ambitious and hardworking mom and had sisters. And so he was looking for that. And I was looking for that too. I really wanted someone that was going to be happy in their own

career. You know, I never wanted to work in the same business together. That was never really my intention. And I heard from many, many people that that is very challenging on a relationship. And it takes a certain type of couple to be able to do that. And I just don't think we're that kind of couple. So we already had that when we came together and we actually got married within four months of meeting each other like it was one of those situations where we both were living in San Francisco at the time we were both in tech and we were we actually grew up about 30 minutes train ride apart but we met in San Francisco and very quickly we met and just knew like oh we are meant to be together it was from that minute we've known um and we got married within four

months because he was in the process of getting his green card I was on a student visa and the way it went down was hilarious he was he was like hop on this conference call with my lawyers we were not together at the time like he was in his office I was in mine he was like hop on a call with my lawyers. You know, we've got this conference call. I'm going to ask them about you getting a green card too, because his tech company was paying for it. I'm like, great.

So he asked them, Hey, what would be the process for Natalie getting her green card? If I'm getting mine? And they said, well, unless you're married by next week, it's not going to happen because yours is on the way. And she, he just said to me on the call. Okay, babe, would that work for you then is this a proposal wow it kind of set the tone for the way our relationship has always been and continues to be it's very dynamic we're pretty spontaneous and you know we're pretty low-key like we neither of us dreamed of having this huge wedding that

just wasn't for us um and we very much have always been very transparent with each other was never any game playing and that's one thing we still are now is we're just very transparent we're on the same team so yeah that's kind of our background and so um you know as we as we got together our business has kept growing and our ambitions kept growing we We moved to LA and now to Austin together. He runs a content creation agency in the gaming space. I run a company called Boss Babe, which is a media company for female entrepreneurs. And we've both just kept growing in our own lanes. And we now have a daughter who's two, and we're thinking about when our next child will be. And we're just really committed to

being our best selves for each other and for our family and for ourselves. And we care about the way that we eat, working out, our friendships, the energy that we have in our household. It's really, really important to us. So I'm happy to talk about any detail of that. It's first, it's so amazing just to hear what both of you all do. I mean, there's so much in your careers. And I know this is one of the big questions we get is like, okay, when you have two busy professionals, how do you keep the passion alive? You all have very clearly, like you have shared values about health and family and communication energy, which you just mentioned.

What are some things you feel like, oh, even though we're on our own paths of independence, we have our like an interdependent dynamic that's still passionate. How do you keep that alive? Well, the first rule we have is we don't really talk about business together. So he has his network and mentors and friends that he can go and talk to about his business. And I have the same for mine. And so we try not to bring business into our relationship and that's really helpful because in the past when we had kind of took the passion out of things because I'm coaching him he's coaching me and I'm like this isn't sexy this isn't enjoyable I don't want to spend my Friday night date with you talking about your P&L like that's just not what I so that's the first rule we have and we're pretty strict about that like he doesn't really know what's going on in my

business day to day and vice versa and we'll let each other know when we're celebrating something and we're genuinely very very happy for each other there's not a sense of competition whose business is bigger who has more team we're genuinely genuinely happy for each other but we don't need to be in each other's business so that's really really helpful for us the second thing is we we are really really intentional about creating space and quality time together so especially having a toddler there's not a lot of time where it's just us and so we have to be really intentional with the time that we get how is it quality time so it's not how was how was your day? It's like dropping to the depths of what's really challenging for you right now, or what's a growth edge that you have

right now. And we've kind of got into that pattern where we have like a very specific, we're very routine. So we have very specific morning routines, evening routines, Saturday routines, Sunday routines. And it can sound a little boring to some people, but for us, it's really nice knowing we have that intentional time booked in and baked in to every day and every weekend. You know, if we spend a couple of days kind of passing ships, parallel parenting, and we're not really connecting. I know that when our baby goes to bed, 7 p.m. hits. I mean, we're English. He puts a kettle on. We sit down with a tea and we talk about those deep questions and we get right to the root of it. So that's been really, really important for us and for

maintaining intimacy in our relationship. Third thing is we invest in mentorship and coaching. So just like we do with our businesses, we invest in mentorship and coaching in our relationship. And we really push the edges of our relationship too so you know we've always had a therapist we've always had a coach but often we'll think about what would be edgy for us in our relationship and so one thing that we did in this last year that has been so powerful for us and i'm happy to share this this is going on being very transparent but when we had our baby we were noticing we're just not as intimate as we used to be and this seems to be the norm for a lot of people with young kids. That wasn't what we wanted. We're not the kind of couple that wants to settle for the norm. And so we start to think about, okay, well,

if this was a business problem, what would we do? We would go and we'd set aside specific time. We would bake it into a rhythm. We would get coaching and mentoring. And we found this tantra mastermind. And we were like, this sounds like both of our ideas of hell. Let's do it. Let's test it. And what was really beautiful about it was it was very much about intimacy on all levels and really getting to know your partner in a completely different way. And what was beautiful for us was we went in for one thing. It was like the blue pill, red pill pill we went in because we were like we're not sentiment we're not connecting we're kind of losing that spark it's parenting and business and a lot of things and what we realized going into that with someone else holding the space was oh we've changed a lot and we haven't really made the time to to get reintroduced to this new version of each other. And we know when we have that foundation

and we're connecting, everything else comes. When we're solid, there's not a lack of intimacy. There's not a lack of connection. When we're solid, all of that comes. And so that was really beautiful. So just in the same way we would invest in business, we invest in our relationship. And you know, there's times you have coaching calls

and sessions set up and I'm like, I don't wanna do this. I'm busy. I'm tired. I'm mad at you. And we still make a commitment to show up. So that has been really, really helpful too. So it's, it's a lot of small things frequently that really, really support us and always coming back together. Cause I never want to paint the picture that it's easy. Marriage isn't easy. Parenting together isn't easy. But we always come back together and we respect each other and we want to know what's really going on for that other person. And that just really, really supports us. I love that you're so intentional about that, that you said, hey, we're struggling over here. Let's go get coaching. Let's go put ourselves in an experience and let's

do this thing together. Like, Hey, there's this, there's this common vibe we're feeling. Let's see if we can improve that together versus one person peeling away and becoming embittered and another person peeling away and becoming, you know, blaming. And I think that's what happens is when a couple of runs into problems, they separate to solve it and they blame to guilt a solve to happen. And a lot of growth doesn't happen through guilt. And so there needs to be those times of connection. I'm curious, and I know people ask this too in the chat here, what that you mentioned, you got the morning, evening routine and the weekend routine. Would you tell us a little bit more of those?

Because I think so much of what you're doing is you're creating time to come together. And so what's happening during that morning, evening and weekend routines? Okay, so some people might think this is a little boring, but I work really well just having structure and having rhythm in my life. So in a morning, our morning is kind of run the same.

And we try to always wake up 15 minutes before our baby. We've kind of got that rhythm going. We try and wake up 15 minutes before. Steven always goes and makes breakfast, no matter what, you know, he's training for a race right now. And the commitment is he makes breakfast for us. And so he still trains for his race, but after that, and he really never breaks that commitment.

And that means a lot to me. still trains for his race but after that and he really never breaks that commitment and that means a lot to me and it's it feels really great to start the day off with him honoring a commitment he made to me and then i go take care of the baby and that's my commitment to him and our relationship so he gets up makes breakfast i always go take care of the baby and then we always sit down together for breakfast always we never ever ever skip this no matter what is going on even if i'm running events and i'm out the door really early we get up early and we sit down for breakfast and what's made it easier is we cook the same breakfast every single morning and so it's very much a rhythm people always laugh they call our house hotel ellis because we've always got a guest we're never alone we always

have a guest but it's always the same breakfast and we just add more when there's more people and some people are like this is so elaborate we're like no we can do it in our sleep because we're so used to it we have our supplements certain things that we drink what we eat and and that works so we sit down the two of us with our baby there's no phones allowed nothing like that and we just talk and we talk about what we're doing that day what we have on we interact with noemi and that feels really good and sometimes you know we only have time to sit down for 30 minutes oftentimes our mornings are about an hour that we spend together just us connecting and that feels really really good because we then go off to do our own things and we don't really see each

other after that we go work out you know we work out consistently every single morning then we go straight to work we might pass making lunch but that's kind of it and then at the end of the day we both finish working at the exact same time if anyone is even going to be 15 minutes late we get permission from the other person because we say it that's us saying hey i respect the commitment we made together to our relationship to our family i'm gonna be 15 to be 15 minutes late. I'm going to be an hour late. I'm going to be out for dinner. Is that okay? And so we get that from each other. So we're not building up resentment of,

you're expecting this of me. And we've been there. We've learned this through experience. I don't want to share that. But we finish work at the exact same time. And we normally do something together with Noemi where we'll put her in the stroller and we'll go out for a walk.

And we make sure she's got enough snacks that she's occupied and we drop in and we just really decompress and we talk about what's going on for each other what we you know anything that's on our mind and we just drop into conversation we come home and every single night we have dinner together as a family um then we put noemi to bed we make a cup of tea and we sit down together and we talk we're not really the kind of couple that watches a lot of shows sometimes on a weekend we will but I've noticed when we get into the habit of doing that we're not talking we're not connecting and so we always sit down with a cup of tea we talk and then we normally go to bed really really early and we'll listen to a podcast together and it's something that the two of us are really interested in so we have time

connecting we listen to something. We're talking about it. And then we go to sleep. And that for us, it feels really good. You know, Monday to Friday, just having that simple routine. Then we have a weekly date night. We keep that on the calendar regardless. Every month, we try and get away for a full day without Noemi.

And then on weekends, we plan them in advance. So we know we've got enough us time plus family time. So I know it sounds boring, but it's that time spent connecting and talking that really makes a difference for us. I love it. It's so important for people to hear. I hope you're taking notes because what most people will be asking right now is they'd be like, oh, geez, what is that breakfast you make? Or geez, when is your lunch? And they'll ask these things that are inconsequential. The principle that she is building these routines around is what's important, which is, hey, we need time to connect that works for us as a couple and is wildly consistent. And that's why I want you to hear it because it doesn't matter what she's having for breakfast. It doesn't matter if they fast. It doesn't matter if they watch a show or listen to podcasts at night.

It's we've created these routines where we connect. And I hope that you all take that away because that's the first principle that is really making this happen. What did you learn together when you did do the seminars and the training and the tantric and everything else about how, like, what was the breakthrough that you think you had in that process? And maybe what, what did he have in that process that you feel like, well, that's what reignited the spark and brought us back. A huge one that I think we both probably had actually was learning to create emotional safety

in our relationship together. So when, what we'd realized before was if someone got triggered and had an emotional reaction, the other one of us would jump into what the Gottmans call the four horsemen. You know, we would, uh, we would get on our high horse or we'd start calling each other names. We'd be disrespecting each other. We'd get into a bit of a spiral and we could see it happening, but of us could stop it like once we're on that train that train is going and we look at it and we come back together later on and just how did we get there like i would really love to pattern interrupt and what and we tried so many pattern interrupts like we're gonna do non-violent communication listen i think non-violent communication is great but when you

feel violent you're feeling violent right and so we kept trying these things that just wasn't really working for us when we were in those emotional states and one thing we learned in this tantric mastermind was all around the idea of holding really safe emotional space for each other because what we realized was when you feel something and you allow yourself to really feel it without judgment, it passes really quickly. It doesn't, as long as it gets heard, it can actually move through you and leave. Whereas when, say you feel angry and maybe you grew up in a household like me where anger wasn't really allowed to be expressed. You know, I always heard little girls are seen and not heard.

And so when I'd felt angry, I would judge myself for feeling angry. I'd push it down, but it would come out in other ways. Complaints, you know, picking at little things, nagging, whatever it was. But the true emotion beneath all of that was the anger. And what we learned at this mastermind was how we could create non-judgmental space for each other to allow that other person to have an

emotional reaction for us to not take it on and make it mean anything about us okay uh she's really angry right now i need to know that's not about me and i get to hold space for her in a really non-judgmental way so she can be angry then we can come together afterwards and it sounds quite simple it's been really profound you know let's say there's a lot of sadness and you try and you know push it down you're like I'm fine no I'm fine I don't want to make a big deal of it so you push it down and it comes out in one way or the other whether you deal that on your own or not it comes out and it seeps into your relationship and I think that those small resentments and those small things unsaid become the big things and you're that whether you deal that on your own or not it comes out and it seeps into your relationship and i think that those small resentments and those small things unsaid become the big things

and you're you're short with each other and you're snappy and you're not seeing each other whereas when you're in a partnership what we've found where you can be that kind of unpolished version of yourself the part of yourself that just wants to say the thing and let it out and be unhinged for 60 seconds and then it's gone it feels really good to know oh she moved through that it was not about you he doesn't think i'm crazy okay we can move on so that was really powerful so she had a lot of um somatic practices that helped us to practice that together and move through lots of those emotions and see how they play out and women tend to have different emotions that come up more frequently than men do

so we got to see the difference in those and what only happens with that is men will judge women's emotions because they don't have the same ones and they don't have the same reactions so they'll judge them as wrong and vice versa but getting to understand it on the logical level of, okay, we're different as men and women, and here's how we deal with it. That was a huge, huge breakthrough for us. And it's something that the minute we learned it, we've been able to continue implementing and it's felt really, really good. That's amazing. When you two have like created these spaces together and you, you went and did this training together, but also as you came together, without all of that instruction or some of these breakthroughs, I'm sure there was a period of time where you're like training each other. Like you're teaching him about maybe tea at 7.

PM. Right. And he's teaching you about some preference he has. And each of you has your own preferences, but you have to figure out how it works together. This was a question from the chat, like, how do you train your partner? Which, by the way, I don't like the language. I'm just a delivery man. How do you train your partner to hear and appreciate and respect and in some ways, you know, follow a boundary or comply, which is a terrible word, I know. But it is one of those things like this is really important to you. I need you to respect this or help me with this or do this. I think that's a pain point for a lot of couples. And that's where a lot of the explosions and the anger happens from. I like this or I need this. And the other person doesn't hear, understand, or yes, comply.

Again, bad word, but everyone understands what I'm saying. So how do you go about that when maybe that's not his thing, but it's important for you? I love this question. I actually get this question a lot in my community as well. I have learned it is very very different for men and women very different so the way we communicate preferences is going to be very different i can speak from a female perspective and i'd be curious to hear yours but from a female perspective what i have learned is that men do not like being told what to do by their wives

and in fact if it gets too much they'll kind of do the opposite they don't like being told what to do by their wives and in fact if it gets too much they'll kind of do the opposite they don't like being told what to do so much but men typically respond really well to positive reinforcement what i have found in you know um husband and wife dynamics is husbands generally want to make their wives happy and if they know something makes their wife really happy they'll do it more frequently and so what i have learned is my way of trying to communicate my preferences would be getting really frustrated and sitting him down and saying this is really important to me i need you to do it like this and he's like okay and i can tell it didn't land and he's kind of mad that i like communicated that way whereas when i want something done a certain way,

when I notice he does it, I make a big deal of it. Oh my God, I loved it. When you made dinner last night, that was so good. The way you cook a steak is so much better than me. It was really, really good. I really enjoyed it. I'm so grateful. Thank you.

And he all of a sudden wants to make steak more often. And he knows, wait, that is a simple, because women are really complicated. get to admit this and for for men they're like trying to solve that puzzle is like trying to solve like fibonacci this is very challenging whereas when she tells me what makes her happy i want to do more of it so i think with women often the suggestion is quieter and it's more, let me celebrate the things that he's doing really, really well versus criticizing for all the things he's not doing as well and where he's not hitting the mark.

But I'm curious, do you agree with that? And then what do you feel like from the other perspective works really well for getting women to do more what you want? Because I feel like women, you can maybe be a little bit more direct with. Yeah, I think one part of it's universal. And then I think there is a male-female kind of polarity there. I think the universality is

if you're asking a partner to do something, if it sounds like you're angry at them, you're reprimanding them, which is big, you're blaming them, or you're casting and projecting your emotions as if they're the cause of those things. Whichever partner is not going to react well to that because you're putting your negative energy on them about it. And so what I've learned and the polarity piece so i think that's true for everybody like regardless of gender uh i think it does very much um sort of like direct you in a different direction which is how can i share this in an authentic way

where i own my emotions of what i need and so that's the first part own emotions of what i need male or female. But I think the real magic with especially men, so I'm only speaking for men in my own journey experience and coaching them too, is if you can find a way to make it playful. A playful, well-rewarded request. Let me say that again. Playful, well-rewarded request will go so far. I mean, so far. And my wife's amazing at this. She'll kind of make, I feel it as a guy, how different it is. If I'm in trouble or if I didn't do it or whatever, there's a tone, there's an energy. And then if she does it

in a way that really works for me, it's kind of flirty. And everyone has a different definition of what that means in your household, but Denise is a little flirty about it. And then she'll smile and I'm like, oh God, I got to do that. Okay. All right. This is going to make her happy. Okay. You know, I might get to make out if I do this. Okay. That's great. I think there's an element of that. And I really love what you shared though. I really want to make out if I do this. Okay, that's great. Yeah. I think there's an element of that. And I really love what you shared, though. I really want to reflect back because I think it's universal, too, is to speak the praise and appreciation to your partner when they did do what you ask. And not if they did do what you ask perfectly.

You have to reward the attempt way more often in relationships if you want the other person to get on the playing field with you. And so those are the things I've learned. I don't have any that resonates. Let's take a quick pause to talk about my new favorite all-in-one platform, Kajabi. You know I've been singing their praises lately because they have helped our business run so much smoother and with way less complexity which I love. Not to mention our team couldn't be happier because now everything is in one place so it makes collecting data, creating pages, collecting payment, all the things so much simpler. One of our mottos at Boss Babe is simplify to amplify and Kajabi has really helped us do that this year

so of course I needed to share it here with you it's the perfect time of year to do a bit of spring cleaning in your business you know get rid of the complexity and instead really focus on getting organized and making things as smooth as possible I definitely recommend Kajabi to all of my clients and students so if you're listening and haven't checked out kajabi yet now is the perfect time to do so because they are offering boss babe listeners a 30-day free trial go to kajabi.com slash boss babe to claim your 30-day free trial that's kajabi.com slash boss babe yeah i love that so much and i really agree i think yeah i i totally agree on the universal one thing i heard which i think is incredibly important is taking responsibility what i have learned is when when

one of us wants to be right and tries to make someone wrong none of us are going to win whereas if we can take full responsibility for our own side and communicate from that place it's so much more productive it feels so much cleaner. And then I love the piece around making it playful and then making the request and actually rewarding it in a really genuine way. Just genuinely looking at them and saying, I really appreciate that you did this for me. And it makes them feel so good. And they want it. You don't have to ask them to do that again. Like they're going to do it again. Yeah. They're going to be aware. And I know I was going to say, but what if he doesn't?

Or what if she doesn't? And the thing is at that point, and I know this sounds too simplistic and almost trite for everybody, but often they really genuinely don't understand why that's so important to you. Yeah. So they'll even say, why is that important? Or when I get in trouble, Natalie, and I've said this, if I'm in trouble in my house, I probably said this, that doesn't matter. Why does that even matter? That's like,

there's all these things. And I always tell, don't be careful about perspective checking your spouse. Cause I'll be like, there's wars going on. Why do I got to worry about that? Now that is bad partnership. Whatever they're sharing with you is important to them. And that is the war they're fighting at that moment. And you might think that has nothing. You think I'm dealing with all this at work, or I'm dealing with all this at home, or I'm dealing with all the kids, and you only have to do this. That's called bitterness. That's not called fairness. That's called bitterness. Because fairness in a relationship is you're both all in doing the best that you can. Not is anyone perfect and not is the balance of weight or responsibility at exact equilibrium because there'll be times you have to carry it.

She has to carry it. He has to carry it. So it's less about this. It's that we're both all in for each other. But sometimes you really have to explain it to somebody. They don't understand that that's important to you. So as now you called, I liked the word, like taking responsibility for your emotions and explaining, here's what I saw.

Here's what I need. Here's why. Can you help me? And that feels better than you didn't, you didn you didn't so i just call it pointillism like when you when you point at somebody verbally or by tone yeah if they feel like you're pointing at them it's going to break down and worse you don't want to make out with anyone who's been pointing at you all day because in high school when they pointed you it felt terrible and now you're doing that to the person in your house you're pointing at at them. They're like, I don't want to

make out. And it kills intimacy. The more you point, blame, or expect complete equilibrium, or you lose perspective and don't claim your own emotion or what you need from another person and why. Yeah, I love that. And too, I think if you go into a situation pointing, that person's defenses naturally go up. They're a human being. And whenever we feel attacked, our defenses go up. And that's a really hard place to have a productive conversation from. And one thing we'll try and do,

we'll try, we're not perfect. We'll try and do, if I notice in me, or I know Steven does this too, if I notice I'm getting defensive, I'll normally say, hey, can we pause on this? I know I'm getting defensive right now. And we're not going to get where we want to go we'll just take a breather and we'll come back and try a different way and we kind of just reset the slate and try again and it's like none of us are going to be perfect we all know marriage has its challenges

but when you can notice even if you're in the middle of a pattern and the pattern is defensiveness if you can notice i'm in a pattern right now and you're not making about them, you're making it so hard for me to know it's I'm getting defensive right now. I'm going to take a beat. Let's come back. And just catching it, even if you catch it a little bit later than you want to catch it, just catching it can be really powerful and can start to change the way you fight. And you can start fighting in a way more loving and connected way. I love that. I love that. One thing we've learned is when I feel defensive or she feels defensive to communicate that, but also one of our big breakthroughs was claiming and owning

our own blood sugar. Like, oh, I think I'm hangry right now. Or, and I can, I'm allowed and she's allowed to ask, like, do you just need some food? And I actually, I told a friend the other day, you'll have that. I said, you know what? Food management is also sex management because have you ever noticed if you eat the wrong food, you're not in the mood or if it's the wrong timing

or if you don't have any blood sugar, you're fighting and now you're not being intimate anymore. So I don't know if this resonates with anyone watching, but I think the way that you manage food and when you eat before a hard conversation or how late you ate before an intimate night, like these things actually matter. And so I'm hyper wherever I'm in my relationship. Cause you know, Denise is a very fit. And so like, and aware of them in my relationship because, you know, Denise is very fit. And so like, and she's just like, like any high performance machine, it needs fuel. And if she doesn't have fuel, everything else can really fall apart.

And I had to be hyper aware of that for me and for her. I don't, that was too much to share. No. Oh my gosh. I resonate so much. The amount of times I will feel like the world's ending and then I'll have a snack and I'm like, Oh, I'm good. And one thing too, I want to share that you brought up that I had written down that I wanted to talk about is, um, and you mentioned it already was polarity. And I think when we talk about intimacy and connection and especially people listening,

you know, you're probably in really ambitious couples I think that polarity piece is really really important because without it I think the intimacy piece does struggle and that's something that we really had to learn it wasn't something we both knew and especially when you're both in really kind of careers that demand a lot from you and you're maybe running teams and looking after clients for women it can be very easy to sit in your masculine at work in those settings and it's about how can you switch that when you're coming into partnership and the same with men how can you be really conscious of the energy you're bringing in to your partnership and having that

polarity between the two of you, I think is really important because I also recognize for me, and I just speak for myself when I'm really in masculine energy and I bring that to my relationship with Steven, like we're not connecting in the same way we would. The passion is not there. Like it just isn't. And I think polarity is really important. So both learning on either side, what that looks like and how you can really, you know, do what you need to do throughout the day, but then bring that together. And for me, I've learned certain practices that really support that in me. And same for Steven, that has made a massive difference. Yeah. I know a lot of people listening have never studied polarity or understand what you

mean by masculine and feminine in this case. maybe the that way to overcome that is to share exactly what you did which is there's things you've learned to open up that that that that side of you what what's an example of that for people so when i talk about masculine and feminine energy what we're all made up of masculine and feminine energy we're all a blend individually of both and everyone's made up very differently some people more on the masculine and and less feminine and in different ways and it's not really a male female kind of thing it's really dependent on each person and what's really helpful is just noticing what kind of energy you're in when you're doing certain things so I know when I'm in creation mode that's's normally a feminine energy. When you're writing or, you know,

you are bringing creation to life, you're generally in a more feminine flow. Whereas the masculine energy might look a lot more like scheduling, you know, team management. It is more rigid. It's goal oriented. It really holds the structure. So when you integrate healthy, masculine and feminine within yourself, you can be really creative and in flow and still show up to your meeting on time. So that's like it distilled down to a simple version in relationship. Polarity is, you know, if it's a man and a woman, how in a typical relationship like that, how can a woman have more feminine and a man have more masculine energy? And what I noticed for me, when I dove into, what does it look like to be my feminine? It's to receive more.

Feminine energy is more in the receiving. Whereas if I have the energy of, I can do this all on my own. I don't need any support. I am an independent woman. I'm very in my masculine. I'm going and getting something and I'm taking care of it. And then I noticed Steven is like, well, I'm kind of not needed here. And so he isn't feeling super activated in his masculine energy either. He's like, okay, she's got it.

Doesn't feel great for either of us. It's a time and a place. What I noticed for me is simple thing. He makes breakfast every morning. I don't feel a need to get up and help. I don't feel a need to jump in. I don't feel a need to course correct and help. I don't feel a need to jump in. I don't feel a need to course correct if he burns something.

I'm receiving. I'm very happy for him to make my breakfast. And it's that simple. Or, you know, he offers to run me a bath. The independent woman in me 10 years ago would have said, I got it. I don't need help running my bath. I can do it.

You know, a different version of me says, thank you. I don't feel a need to be doing all the things so that's a really really simple way um and so the way I can kind of activate in him is let him you know go fix the things let him make plans let him choose the place we're going to go for dinner and it's not that I am surrendered and and it's really soft in that way but I'm just happy to be led and receive in that way. And there's, it plays in different places in the relationship, but that is an energy that for us creates a lot more passion. And I know I feel way better about a date night if he's taking care of it and he's planned it.

And I just show up, I get to spend the time getting ready. I just show up. We have a really great day. It's taken care of. We're in a much better space. So I think polarity work is really, really important. I love that. I love that. I hope everyone listening, you'll actually have that conversation with your partner because where they're at, at different times of the day or in different moods, it's good for you to know that. And for them to have described it to you, because you might not know what their masculine energy feels like to them or their feminine energy. They might even use that language for you, but as a good point of reference of opposites attracting, that's why that polarity is so important. Sometimes, you know what?

Your partner needs you to be more solid or in command or confident, or more assertive. And sometimes your partner needs you to be very receptive, and attracting, and playful, and honoring. And so you learn like, oh, what do they need here? And whether you resonate with the polarity idea or not, it's about understanding you got different styles, and you got different energy. And if you're unaware of those styles and energy and the needs you both have around it, then what ends up happening, no matter what state you're in or energy you're in or polarity in, it just feels like this all the time. It's like you're butting heads. It's like there's no openness there. And somebody, someone in that couple always has to have and maintain a standard of openness.

And if you can create that environment where that other person senses that you're open to that, it's important because that's where you really get those big breakthroughs of emotional safety. And you get those big breakthroughs of, oh, that's your preference? Let me serve that. And that's what I was always like for people who hate the term polarity, because it creates a lot of things. I go, your job is to figure out how to serve your partner. And when you figure out how to serve the partner, all the other things will take place. You'll figure out their love language at some point. You'll figure out their polarity at some point. You'll figure out their blood glucose at some point. You'll figure out their

sleeping preference. You'll sleep on their back, on their stomach. You figure out all these things when you make it important for them to be happy. Not that you own that, but you have a huge influence in that. And that's what I love about this couple. As we're talking about Natalie and Steven, it's like they genuinely are trying still this many years in to make each other happy. And they're trying to figure it out with a new baby. They're trying to figure it out with different careers. Is there any other thing that you'd love to share, Natalie, you feel like that is just when that happens between the two of you, the spark and the joy and the best the relationship is present? Yeah. One thing that I really wanted to share, something that we have done for a really long time in our relationship that I,

I give this advice to a lot of my friends who are just getting married and it has really changed the game for us. And it is radical honesty and transparency. And we have this rule in our relationship that anything goes, we can say anything to each other about what we're feeling that is true for us whether it's a fear we have shame that we're holding on to anything and we know and trust that it is a safe space in the relationship so one thing we try never to do is people pleasing and you know telling white lies or saying yes when you really mean no doing something that you know will make them happy but you're going to build resent upon you know something you've harbored shame over for a really long time we don't have any secrets like that and we have this rule that anything goes

and we know how to frame a conversation like that we'll say can i have one of those open honest conversations with you tonight are you are you able and open to full space of that and the other person will will give their buy-in yes or no and you have to be in the energy for it you have to be in a space where you can't actually hold for them and we'll share all the things and that has been so profoundly game-changing for us to be in relationship where you both don't just see each other but really see each other on that deep soul level you know what they feel embarrassed about you know what really activates them you know what they feel shame around you know those small things create so much intimacy and so much understanding in one another and it makes it

so much easier when you're in say a disagreement you can see the younger version of your partner and know exactly why they're responding the way they're responding because they've told you that thing that was really vulnerable for them and they've trusted you with that and it's your job I believe in those situations to take care of that part of your partner and you're only going to know that part of them if they felt safe enough to share it and so we have that agreement that we have that radical openness and honesty and if something is triggered in in an argument that we're having a agreement that we have that radical openness and honesty and if something is triggered in in an argument that we're having a disagreement that we're having we still take care

of each other on that vulnerable level and we would never exploit or try and activate on purpose or push buttons that we know really trigger that person and I think that fundamental respect and trust in a relationship is really really powerful and I think you can get through a lot when you have that so that's the message I also really wanted to put through is and if you don't have that in your relationship just think about how you could set aside an hour a week and a prompt that you can have is something that I'm really afraid to say out loud is, and then you say it. And that's a really good place to start, that one prompt. And as you start doing it more often,

you'll be like, actually, I have more to say. Like there's another thing and another thing. And you'll see, wait, my partner's not shocked by this. They're not embarrassed by this, not judging me. They love me through it. And I think that is a really beautiful way you can also grow as an individual in your relationship. So good, everybody. Natalie Ellis, so good. Make sure you follow her on Instagram. Follow Boss Babe for the business journey as well. I know many of you are in Ultra

with us where Natalie, myself, Ed, Mylet, we're always training you guys at another level. I want you to watch this one maybe three or four times, everyone. That was so good, Natalie. Thank you so much for being with us here on Growth Day today. This is great. Thank you. This was really fun for me.

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