the bossbabe podcast - 412. “I Burned Down My Multi 7-Figure Company + Opened a Bookstore Cafe Instead” - How Industry Leading Melyssa Griffin Reinvented Her Business + Life

Episode Date: August 29, 2024

EPISODE SUMMARY  Do you ever wish you could burn your business down and start over doing something that truly lights you up? Natalie sat down with Melyssa Griffin to unpack exactly how she did just that. After building a wildly successful multi-7-figure business, Melyssa decided to close it all down to start her dream bookstore cafe in Lisbon. In today’s episode she shares the full story behind what led to that decision, her experience with chasing success, burnout, navigating fear during seasons of change, and advice for anyone who knows they are on the brink of something new.  TIMESTAMPS 1:30 - The Height of Melyssa’s Business + Major Milestones 11:45 - Closing Her Business 22:00 - Questioning + Changing Your Path  32:25 - What’s Driving You? 38:00 - Starting a Bookstore Cafe in Lisbon 49:13 - Melyssa’s Schedule + Typical Day In The Life 58:00 - Advice for Making Big Change RESOURCES + LINKS Connect with Melyssa Here! Learn More About Melyssa + Her Amazing Offerings Here!  Join The Société: Our Exclusive Membership To Help You Build A Freedom-Based Business. Get Our Weekly Newsletter & Get Insights From Natalie Every Single Week On All Things Strategy, Motherhood, Business Growth + More.  Drop Us A Review On The Podcast + Send Us A Screenshot & We’ll Send You Natalie’s 7-Figure Operating System Completely FREE (value $1,997)  FOLLOW bossbabe: @bossbabe.inc Natalie Ellis: @iamnatalie Melyssa Griffin: @melyssa_griffin

But what I do want to get into is the height of your business, because you were so and are so well known in the industry, like really one of the OGs who built such a powerful empire, really. Can you take us back to kind of the height of your business, what you were doing, what it looked like? Yeah, so I would say the height started around 2017, 2018. It was when the online course industry was just kind of booming, starting to take off, but hasn't really reached its peak yet. I launched a course. It ended up going well. And then I just kept doing that and expanding our offerings and team. I learn a lot through experience. I learn through just throwing things together and bootstrapping something. I actually find that

that's the most fun for me. And it's like, you just need a small blueprint to understand it. And then you can put your own nuance and your own expertise on it. Welcome to the podcast. Thank you, Natalie. I'm so happy to be here. Oh my goodness. When I knew I was coming here, one, I was so excited to visit your cafe bookstore. It's freaking phenomenal. I'm like so in awe of you. And two, I was so excited to have this conversation with you. I've been talking about it forever. So thank you for saying yes. Yeah, of course. I'm so excited to chat with you. And thanks for visiting Fable too. I'm so glad you liked it. I know that's like a real sneak peek of what's coming in this

interview. I can't wait to talk about all the things. But the last time I saw you, we were in Austin. Yeah. And you hadn't even mentioned, like in our conversation, I don't even know if Lisbon was on the cards for you. Don't think so. No. Great. So much to talk about. So where I want to go with you, because I know for anyone new to you,

they can find your journey online. They can get into your business stuff. I don't want to go all, all the way back. But what I do want to get into is kind of the height of your business, because you were so, and are so well known in the industry, like really one of the OGs who built such a powerful empire, really. And you were publishing these amazing income reports. And I remember looking through them and you were in this online course industry, I think before a lot of people even knew how to

get into it, and you had this wildly, wildly successful multiple seven-figure business, you were very transparent about your business. So can you take us back to kind of the height of your business, what you were doing, what it looked like? Yeah. So I would say the height started around 2017, 2018, which feels like so long ago now. And you're right. It was when the online course industry was just kind of booming, starting to take off, but hasn't really reached its peak yet. And I had a couple of online courses that just seemed like they did really well. I tell people that I stumbled into this business and industry because it wasn't really intentional. It wasn't

like I made this firm choice to create an online education company. I launched a course, it ended up going well. And then I just kept doing that and expanding our offerings and team. And I wasn't really prepared for that because I was in my mid-20s. I was like 25, 26 at the time. And I wasn't prepared for it to become so successful so quickly. And I didn't really know what to do with that. And I also wasn't so deeply connected to myself. You know, I was operating so much more from a laundry list of insecurities to mask what I was feeling inside and using achievement and success to kind of veer away from what I didn't want to share, you know, what I didn't want people to see underneath. And not even doing that consciously, right? Like it was so unconscious that you just chase perfection and success as a way to soothe the inner voice inside. Uh, so I had all these courses and the business was going well,

but I was feeling internally so burnt out. Uh, my body was starting to feel super fatigued. I could not find the motivation to do anything at that point. And I went to a doctor, we did all these blood tests. And he basically said, if you don't take a break, then you are really going to mess up your health. Like here's where a normal person's cortisol is. And then here's where yours is. It's like four or five times the normal amount. And so you're in a constant state of stress. And I didn't even know that because I was so used to it at that point. I felt like this is how you run a business. This is how you become successful. And that was what was modeled to me. And so I took six months off at that point.

This was before making any big changes or closing a business or anything. I took six months off and spent that time really reconnecting to myself. And this was at the height of my company. It was a big choice for me, but it was kind of like, if you don't listen to the mental and then emotional and spiritual signs, then eventually it's going to come to your physical body being like, no more, can't take it anymore. And in that six months, I reconnected to myself, decided I wanted to make some changes. And when I came back to the company, I did. And we moved a bit more away from online courses to more coaching programs, high touch things where I got to be

really in person with people, build deeper connections. And, and yeah, and that was really where it was at sort of when I decided to start making some changes and, and pondering what might be next for the company. Yeah. I mean, that must have been a huge decision to have a business of that size. And even going back in doing my research for this episode, I was reading through so many of your old blog posts and things. And one thing that was just standing out so strong is how much of an incredible digital marketer you are and how early you were on all of this. Because like you say, this was say 2018-ish. I mean, that was really, I feel like the beginning of this industry starting to take off and a lot of people only starting to learn about digital marketing. And I

think between 2018 and 2020 was when it really became a thing. Oh, digital marketing is a real thing. Funnel is a real thing. You had that down. How did you even start to learn about that? It's a good question. I think I learn a lot through experience. I learn through just throwing things together and bootstrapping something. I actually find that that's the most fun for me when something is unexplainable and I don't know how to do it. And I just try a lot of different things to see what works. My first course was about Pinterest marketing. And I feel like that's how I discovered that that was even a thing when I was just using Pinterest and trying different stuff. And I was like, this is getting really good results. Maybe I can help other people do this too.

So that was kind of how it started. But I also, when I would notice that something could be expanded or something could work a little bit better or we could fine tune something. I'm such a details person that I would seek out coaches or support or consultants to help create something new. Like I learned about funnels through somebody who helped me build our very first funnel. And it's like you just need a small blueprint to understand it. And then you can put your own nuance and your own expertise on it to make it work even better too. So it was all just like a granular detailed little by little process of learning things along the way, throwing a lot of spaghetti at the wall. It was incredible to read all about that and just see how, you know, you were doing this. I feel like I didn't even fully know digital marketing was

a thing then. Like I kind of threw myself into it, like you say, by my choice. And it was just so interesting to see how big your business was back then when so many people were still doubting the power of online courses. And I feel like only now that, oh, wait, this is a real career path. I could actually be doing this. So, so in awe of what you were able to build. So going back to that point, you, I feel like you were in a relationship, you had this incredibly successful business. You decided to take a break. Was there any kind of things that happened? Your health wasn't feeling good. Were there any major milestones or moments that happened that kind of had you reevaluate things back then? Yeah, absolutely. So I, like I mentioned, I feel like I stumbled into this industry. It wasn't

conscious. It was, I like teaching and I like building things. And so I didn't actually come into communion with my own decision making, you know, my own soul and my business for a long time. And I kept having these inklings of like, maybe this isn't what I want to be doing. But then I had the success and Forbes article and things that were feeling good, feeling like this is what success is. This is what I should be chasing. This is what I was taught. But internally, I still wasn't feeling great. And so it took some bigger milestones to actually decide maybe this isn't, maybe this isn't the path for me. And even though I knew it for so long, I had to get to a point where I could believe it. I could trust it. So at a certain point, I went through that burnout.

That was kind of a big wake up call for me of, if I don't change something, my health is actually going to deteriorate. And then I went through a breakup that was right on the brink of like, are we going to get married and settle down? Are we going to start a family, move to suburbia? That was on the table. And he's a great man. And we had a beautiful relationship, but I just always had my doubts. I always had my doubts of if this is what I want, both for a relationship and also for my life right now at that time. Um, and so I started questioning things and really tried to make it work in that relationship, but ultimately just felt like I need something different. My soul doesn't feel as free as it wants to be here.

I know that there's something more expansive for me. And so that ending of that, which was in 2020, like right before COVID started, and then COVID started, was really a big turning point. And then a few months later, my dog passed away. It was my first dog. I got him when I lived in Japan, which is where I started my business. He kind of followed me through that whole journey. And my biggest fear up until that point was him passing away. And I just remember, and he passed away really suddenly too. He was young. He was only eight years old. And it was like one day he was a little sick. And then two days later, he was,

he was not alive anymore. And so the shock and fear that I originally felt when I found out like, oh, he's sick and he's not going to make it. Um, that was a huge turning point for me because it was my greatest fear realized, but then the most beautiful thing happened where after he passed, I realized that I could feel him everywhere. And it made me understand that death is not an ending, but it's an expansion. And before it was like my love for him was concentrated on him as a little being. And now it was like my love for him is everywhere in the whole universe. And I could feel him all the time. And it really got me thinking of like, well, if my love for this business or this life that I'm creating right now is concentrated like that as well, what might be possible if I choose a different path? If I choose to go into the fear like I had with the death of my dog and trust that maybe on the other side of that deep fear is something even more beautiful. And that really started the spiral of maybe I don't want to live in California anymore. Maybe I'm going to move somewhere else. And I moved to Austin. That

was also a big transition and milestone. And then eventually moved to Lisbon, Portugal. So it was a series of all these things, everything in my life that could change did. My relationship, where I lived, my dog, and then my sense of identity, and finally my business. So it was a big transformation. I think I was just seeking something truer on the other side. And so when you talk about your business changing, was it at that point you decided you were going to kind of retire your business? When did that happen? It was around when my dog passed away, which was end of 2020. Okay. I had started making that decision, started telling my team and started prepping things for it to be shut down. I didn't actually close it for almost a

year after that, end of 2021 roughly, but that's around when that started what was the decision when you made it was it to or why did you kind of decide okay I'm closing the chapter on this you know your market brain must have been like well I could probably put ads on and just autopilot to my funnels like all the things what made you decide you know what I'm going to fully close this down versus the passive side? Yeah. Yeah. I know from the outside looking in, it probably looks like a dumb business decision, right? It's like, well, you could just keep it running and still make money and all of that. And it probably is. It's probably was a bad business decision, but it was a, it was a good life decision for me because the business was also named after me. And I got to

this point where I would see Facebook ads that had my video of me and my name and my words. And it just felt, it felt like an out of body experience. It was like, this doesn't feel like who I am anymore. I don't want to be talking about marketing so much anymore. I want to be talking about like inner healing and transformation and nature, you know, I want to talk about and death and all these other things that are interesting for me now. And I think because it was named after me, it became this thing where I just wanted to completely separate myself from it. Maybe if it had a different name, that could have been something else. But for me, it felt like to step fully into my next identity of who I'm becoming, I need to cut the ties with what this company is. And I did have people question me on it and say, like, why don't you just set it up passively? Like people were nervous about it. Yeah.

They're like, you could be making money and never have to work again and it'll be fine. But for me, I can't do anything with my whole heart if a piece of my heart is still left somewhere else. And so I knew that I needed to just close it and move on to the next chapter. And if I wanted to circle back and come back to it one day, there's so many possibilities in life. So that's possible too. But yeah, I needed to let go of it in order to make that happen. Was there any kind of ego death for you in that? And I ask because, so when I had this kind of similar moment, it was in 2022, I decided I'm walking away from my business. I'm done. And I had a business partner at the time

and so I had kind of chatted with them and they were like yeah I'll probably buy you out then um and so I I was planning on walking away from it and I remember for quite a few months having this full ego death of well who am I without the email list the following the the all the masterminds I'm in the big business business, who would I be? And it was really challenging. On the other side of it was the best thing that ever happened. Did you have any of that when you were thinking about doing this? 100%. 100%. Yeah. Especially before I made the choice. After I made the choice, I started feeling more surrendered and free. But in that year where I had made the decision

and then had to implement the decision, there was a lot of ego death involved in that. A lot of acceptance too. And a lot of fear as well, because I didn't know what was on the other side. I think it would have been easier if it was like, all right, I'm going to jump into this thing next. But I didn't have that. And I didn't have any inkling of what it would be. I just knew I needed to trust that this wasn't working for me right now. And that maybe there would be something else on the other side one day. And so once I actually did close it and said, like, I'm essentially retiring from this business, I started to feel really surrendered because I knew that one day something would come up.

Like I won't be stumbling through life forever. There will inevitably something that comes into my view and a new project or whatever it might be. And so it was just a matter of trusting for however long that took. And I remember writing like a post at that point of if it takes 10 years, then it takes 10 years. And it doesn't matter how long it takes. Like time is such a human construct anyway. So just allow it to be what it's going to be and trust that the lessons are unfolding in exactly the right timing for my next journey or the journey that I'm on now. So yeah, but huge ego death. And I feel like when I look back at who I was in 2020, 2019, I feel like such a different person. It feels like a whole new identity has emerged, like someone that feels truer and more in tune with herself who would not make those kinds of

decisions again to meet society's expectations or someone else's expectations it's like I'm very firm now and what it is I want who I want to be and yeah it just feels really different. Talk to me a bit about that like where was your mindset at then because I feel like for some people listening they probably are thinking about making a change or even have started that process. But there's so much resistance and fear coming up of, will I be relevant? Will I be X, Y, Z? So where was, what was kind of going through your head during that time? Yeah, I think those are such relevant fears too. And I felt the same way, especially the, will I be relevant? I just sent an email to my email list recently, like two and a half years later. And that was in my mind of, well, they even remember me, you know?

And I think a lot of people feel that way. And all of those security fears come up when you think of making a big change, whether it's a relationship or business or where you live or even how you style your hair, you know, it's there's always that joke about getting bangs. Yeah, that's an identity change, too. But it's like the security fears come up because we're driven to want to root and to feel stable, because if you feel unstable, then that's going to affect how you move through the world. Right. And then it brings up all those primitive fears of,

am I going to stay alive? Will I have enough food to eat? And just remembering that we're operating from this very ancient brain that wants to keep us safe, but that we can also have this more spiritual, emotional, creative connection to something larger than ourselves that wants to keep us expanded. And so if we keep resisting the choices that are going to lead us

from fear to freedom, then you might not be living in your truth. You might not be able to get to that more, you know, evolved or expanded version of yourself. And there's no, you know, no shame in feeling the resistance, because I think that's such a natural part of making a big change in your life to feel that this is scary, that this is going against what my reptilian brain wants me to do, but that there's something here. There's something true for me in this decision. And so what might be on the other side of that? What might be possible for me? Who might I become if I'm willing to, to do that? Um, yeah, but it's scary. Did you have those kinds of things come up for you too? Like what were your main resistance points? I mean, definitely the fear of, will I be relevant? Like, will I

still, will my friends still want to be my friends? You know, will I wake up and have a plan? Like, will I know what I'm going to do? Because there was no other plan. Right. You know, financial questions. I feel like everything came up, but I feel like, like you were saying, I had to go through all of those feelings to really see how much I was relying on external validation to

fulfill something inside of me. Yeah. And what I wanted on the other side of that was so much bigger. And so I went through all of that and the way it all transpired for me was that I was going to be bought out and leave the business. And ultimately I ended up buying the business six months later. But I think all of that was divinely orchestrated because I had to know and feel who I was going to be without the business to do it and choose it a different way. Because I would have kept going the same way. I would have kept running the same business because it's, for me, it was very challenging to turn down invitations, to turn down another launch, to turn down an idea because I was like, well, why not? I could, or just one more, this, just one more that. Did you feel like, did

you have those things come up? Like, well, I could do one more big launch. I could do one more of this. Like at what point did you have to sit yourself down and say, Mel, we need to have a conversation because you're going to keep going forever. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think actually between 2017 and 2020, I was having a lot of those conversations with you. Interesting. It wasn't something that just all of a sudden I realized I want to close my business and move on. It was something that had been there for a really long time because it wasn't always fully aligned. Like there was always something kind of missing. I used to be a teacher, a classroom teacher in high school. And so going into teaching courses felt natural

and it felt good to have, I was always a leader and then lots of clubs and things in school. And so there were things about it that felt super natural, but then there were things about it that weren't quite me. Um, you know, I had this business that was named after myself and I was teaching a lot of people and on camera a lot, but I'm more of the person where if we go on a hike, Natalie, I'm going to be pointing out the way the leaves are blowing in the wind or like a cool caterpillar, you know, I'm, I can be a powerhouse when I need to be, but I'm a gentle soul at heart. And so, yeah, I went through a lot of those undulations of, is this really what I want to be doing? But it took getting to a point inside of myself where I felt secure enough within that I was able to make that choice externally. Because

even though it was there for so long, I wasn't secure enough inside to be able to say this is something that needs to change. And what was that work? Was it nervous system work? Was it a mix of so many things? Can you pinpoint what kind of work started to make you feel more comfortable and safe? I think it was a combination of a lot of things. It was somatic work, psychedelic work. I did a series of ketamine therapy in Los Angeles, and that helped a lot to talk about ego death. Definitely had some of that during those experiences of really coming into deeper connection with what is it that I really want? What does that feel like? It was working with different types of therapists and coaches on all sorts of techniques. And yeah, and a lot of it was just being in nature too, like being more still,

because that felt natural for me, but it wasn't something I prioritized. I relate to that so much, especially the stillness piece, because I felt like from starting my business, quite similar to what you were sharing, I started it. And it's not like I had this master plan to build this huge business, but it started working. And so I was seeking out more mentorship on how I could double down on that and optimize that. And I describe it as this like magic carpet ride. And it almost, I almost needed to hit rock bottom in my life to look around and get off the magic carpet and realize I was in a completely different destination that I didn't even

recognize. And there was a lot of beauty in that. And I'm so grateful for my past self, for what she was able to create. And so much of it was unconscious and I was never still. It was just thing after thing after thing, chronically busy, you know, my calendar just being stacked with team management meetings and let's optimize this. There's this coming up. I was never still when I had downtime. You know, I was always, everything was productive.

But then getting into that stillness, you can't, I feel like you can't ignore the voice that comes up. That's like, I'm not happy. This isn't working for me. Or you can't ignore the discomfort you feel with stillness when you haven't felt still for a long time. Yes. Yes. Because it brings up everything. Yeah. It's like when you're quiet, you can feel the universe or God speaking to you. And then it's up to you to decide what to do with that. And I remember those moments too felt, I felt depressed. Like I, I started feeling really nihilistic about life and what's the point of all of this? Like, what was

the point of growing this business? And what was the point of, you know, creating something that doesn't fulfill me? And I, I remember calling one of my mentors at that time, who's a business coach and telling him like, I'm feeling really nihilistic and I don't know what to do with this because I'm thinking I'm just burning it all down and, you know, and what does it all matter? And he said to me, I'm proud of you for doing that because a lot of people never question the path that they're on. They never question, is this making meaning in my life or is it just making money? And it's good to be a bit nihilistic, he told me, but to get a little bit on the other side of it where you can see that none of this matters, but hooray, you know, hooray that it doesn't matter because that means you get to experiment and you get to move through life and dance through it

instead of feeling so clung to it being a certain way. And so I did work through the depression a bit. The ketamine therapy helped with that too. And, you know, I think my depression was largely because I was following a path that wasn't mine anymore. And so that started lifting and I started feeling that nihilism, but in a more positive way of this doesn't matter. So it could be anything. There's so many possibilities in this. Yeah. And a lot of people will relate to that. I want to burn my business down feeling. I want to let it all go and wake up in the morning with no responsibility. And you did it. What did it feel like? Was it 2021 when that transition had happened? And did you have this big exhale of like, okay, it's done? How did that feel? Yeah, I did. I did. Yeah. And I think part

of it was because the community was really supportive. I was, I remember like hovering my finger over the email button to send this email of, I'm retiring, I'm closing this business down. And people were really supportive. I remember one person sent me an email and he was a priest. And I, my community is largely people who are growing businesses and doing inner work. And here's a priest. And he said, you've finally come into communion with your soul. And that meant so much to me to feel like, yeah, that's, that is the journey that I'm on right now. And I took that as, this is my path moving forward. How can I come into deeper communion with my soul? And so it felt like an exhale. It gave me a lot of freedom too. So I took a sabbatical for a year

and a half. I knew the intention was to start something else one day, but I didn't want to rush it. So I took this sabbatical. I went on a lot of retreats. I did an ayahuasca retreat in Costa Rica and then a tantra retreat in Colombia. I did a music production retreat in Guatemala. And I just kind of allowed myself to surrender to the little inklings or impulses of what I should be doing because there was no plan. It was more of somebody would mention something in a conversation and I would think, oh, that feels good inside of my body. Like there's something there for me. And so I would go, I would travel somewhere or I would go on a retreat that somebody had talked about. And it was just listening

intuitively. And that's when I feel like I really started to build a deeper connection with myself because I had to be, you have to be connected. Otherwise, you know, you can get chaotic and just go on lots of retreats and become nomadic and never, you know, ground yourself anywhere. That was a possibility too. but I got into really deep connection with myself and just listened to where does life want to take me right now and can I flow with that instead of resisting it and just trust it's leading me where I need to go and how did it feel going from earning I mean I seen those reports, multiple six figures of profit per month to nothing. I love you for asking it like that.

You know what? So thankfully, and I'm so grateful for this, and I know it's such a privilege too, it allowed me to invest in things and have savings. So there was still this kind of security. And I think that that makes a difference. But at a certain point, you know, in the beginning, it felt really freeing. And then at a certain point, it does feel as somebody who's made money since I was 15, always had a job and was always good at making money. It did feel a little bit weird to not have an income or not be bringing in the kind of money

that I was before. Uh, so I had to get used to that as well. And, and it started to allow me to challenge my beliefs around, do I need this much money? Like, does anyone need that much money? What, what would that much money have provided me that a simpler life wouldn't? And was it also kind of a distraction for me sometimes of what I thought mattered or what I was prioritizing versus what I actually love, which is more simplicity, is like my feet in the sand or in the soil, running around a forest with my dogs and just at peace, you know? So I think about that sometimes too, because when I was making a lot of money, there would be ways that I would spend it that were not super conscious that I think were a big

distraction for me, or even at times probably an addiction of just buying things because I could and bawling out for sort of no reason. Yeah. So I think it got me questioning my money beliefs in that way. It's like I had to question my money beliefs to make a lot of money. And then once I did, I was starting to question if that was even worth it. Yeah. And now I feel like I've landed somewhere in the middle. Yeah. I have to ask that because I especially feel like as a marketer, our concepts of money are a little different. I don't know if you ever, if you relate to this, but definitely for me, like when I've thought about money, I can think about it. Like I want to buy this house. Oh, that's this, this many launches. I want to do

this. It's this many, like as a marketer in business, I think it's one of the best skills you can ever have because it's truly money on demand. So during your sabbatical, was there ever, did you have to retrain yourself? And I'm asking because I can totally see this playing out for me of like, oh, this is a good business idea. I could switch on this funnel and then generate, you know, easier, a few hundreds of dollars, hundreds of thousand dollars here. And then that would set me for here. Like, did that come up for you? And did you have to retrain yourself through it? Or once you made the decision, was the decision made? There were moments when I had that come up. I, there was a time when I thought I was going to stay in Austin and I was looking to buy a house. And then when I talked to a mortgage broker,

they were like, you need an income to buy a house. We don't care about savings. We care about how much your W-2 income is. And I was like, oh, really? I never had a problem with these things before. And so those were some moments where I was thinking like, okay, well, maybe it would be good to have an income, you know, like that might be a good idea one day. But it wasn't enough. And I wasn't in a place where I was looking, where I was looking to invest in anything enough, where that felt like a necessity. I was in a place where I was looking, where I was looking to invest in anything enough where that felt like a necessity. I was in a place where I was very much allowing and searching and, um, not needing to have so much money, but it has come up at certain times of, I could just, you know,

press a button again and turn something on and, and have it make more money, but at what cost, right? Like at what cost would that be to my soul? And not that it's, you know, not that selling a course about marketing is a detriment to society. I think it helps a lot of people and there's such a need for it, but is it what I want to be doing right now. And if I am doing that, what's the cost of admission? What do I have to give up in order to do that again? So now I'm very firm that if I'm going to be doing something, it's got to be something that's super aligned with my heart. My heart has to be in it. Yeah. Let's take a quick pause to talk about my new favorite all-in-one platform Kajabi you know I've been singing their praises lately because they have helped our business run

so much smoother and with way less complexity which I love not to mention our team couldn't be happier because now everything is in one place so it makes collecting data creating pages collecting payment all the things so much simpler one of our mottos at Boss Babe is simplify to amplify and Kajabi has really helped us do that this year. So of course I needed to share it here with you. It's the perfect time of year to do a bit of spring cleaning in your business, you know, get rid of the complexity and instead really focus on getting organized and making things as smooth as possible, I definitely recommend Kajabi to all of my clients and students. So if you're listening and haven't checked out Kajabi

yet, now is the perfect time to do so because they are offering Boss Babe listeners a 30-day free trial. Go to kajabi.com slash Boss Babe to claim your 30-day free trial. That's Kajabi.com slash boss, babe. Yeah. And I just think it's so important to highlight that because I want to just highlight the level of willpower. I think it probably has taken because, you know, for anyone that has experienced, you know, knowing marketing, having hundreds of thousands of people on your email list in your community. It is like having a button you can press. It's like having a cash machine. And it's, we don't, I think it's important to talk about that and really name that because yes, we, you see what marketing is like, and you see what this world is like, but it truly is like that. It's okay. I want to do this launch. Let me press

this button. Let me turn it on. Oh, I want to make money here. Let me put together this email and turn it on. So I just want to highlight how much willpower that must have taken to say, no, I'm complete with that. I want to do something that lights me up. And I just really admire you for it because I just know that can't have been easy. Thank you. Yeah. I think, you know, we all have our drivers in life. And there was a point when money was the biggest driver for me, money and success. They were kind of linked together because I thought success was money. And then I got to a point a few years in where I realized my driver was freedom. And I thought I want freedom to make whatever choices I want and to do whatever it is I want to be doing in life. And so money became a little bit less of the forefront, but also still a big part of being

able to have ultimate freedom. And then as things shifted, and especially after the sabbatical and moving on, closing my business, I realized that my driver now is truth. And so when your driver is truth, that means that money isn't always going to be the main focus anymore. Maybe it's moving to another country or, you know, opening a business that's not, it doesn't have the financial power of an online marketing company. But if that's what feels true, then that's what's going to be the biggest driver for me in a similar way that money used to feel like, you know, it's kind of like the same energy, but now just a different outcome.

And so it's reprogramming or just shifting the focus of what that looks like. And knowing that it's bringing me the same kind of fulfillment, but just in a new way. Yeah. And I want to highlight something you said just before we turned on recording. And I said, I really think this conversation is important, especially when we're talking about money, because a lot of people will say, oh, I'd be so much happier crying into my Maserati. And I never want to, I never want to kind of underestimate the security and power of financial freedom and the level of security that creates. I never want to ever do that because I know what it's like to grow up without anything. And that level of financial security is incredibly important. But for a lot of us,

myself very much included, once we get that financial security, it's almost like we never stopped to acknowledge it. And we just kept going, keep going for more and more and more and more. And I think that's the thing that I want to highlight is financial security is incredibly important and it's very empowering, especially for women. And at what point do we stop to ask ourselves, when's enough enough? Yes. And that question for me was something that when I asked that it was a full just come to Jesus moment for me because I realized I'd never asked that. Did you ever find yourself asking yourself that question? Like when is enough enough for me? Oh, the whole time. The whole time. Yeah. And I had the same experience

too of, you know, you, it's a snowball. You have some success and you're like, whoa, I didn't expect that. And then you have a little bit more in a bigger way. And you're like, wow, I didn't expect that either. Maybe I'm good at this and I'm going to keep going. And now I'm going to see how big I can make it and why not. And you don't realize that you're on this hamster wheel and you're chasing something that maybe it started down here of this is what I think I want. And now the expectation is way over here because you've moved a little bit off course. And if you move a little bit off course, eventually if you move a little bit off course, eventually you end up in a completely different place. And that's what I found too. And I think

that's the balance because I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting to make a lot of money. I still actually feel that internally. Like I love nice things. I love the beautiful craftsmanship of things. I love staying in beautiful places. I do love the freedom of money. I just want to make it in a way that feels good to my soul now. But there were a lot of those moments of, you know, do I need all of this? And how can I ask myself what enough is? How can I get to that point of really just being there? And it's hard too. What I found was when people are around you, who are your friends and you get into this industry and you make lots of friends who are doing amazing things and growing

their companies. And it's not easy to hear about all their launches and how much money everyone else is making and how much their business is growing. And then to decide, well, I don't want that. I'm going to scale my business down and I need a simpler life. Like it's really hard to do that because your environment shapes who you are. And I think that was probably part of why actually I needed to close it. I don't think everyone needs to close their business when they realize it's not aligned, but I think that was part of why I did because I needed to go off. I needed to be out of the industry, away from the sort of noise of

what everyone else was doing in order to really focus on what's coming up for me and what do I want at this point in my life. That makes total sense. And almost, I feel like you sometimes have to experience that to then realize it's not what you want. Yes. Because someone can tell you, but until you really experience that, I think it's very what you want. Yes. Because someone can tell you, but until you really experience that, I think it's very different. So fast forward to now, you have this amazing cafe and bookstore in Lisbon. I visited two days ago. It was freaking amazing. The matcha was incredible. When and how did this idea come about? What made you decide I am going to burn down my business and now I'm going to have a cafe and bookstore? Well, I, so it wasn't something that when I closed the business, I was like, I'm going to start a bookstore cafe in another country. That was

absolutely not on my radar at all. I realized I wanted to go on a road trip. That's where it started. And I decided I was going to do this road trip in Europe. And I brought my dog along with me. I'm actually half Portuguese. My grandparents are from Portugal. My mom's Portuguese. I'd never been here before. And I thought I'll come here for a month and I'll learn a little bit about the culture and maybe plug some things into growing up with my grandma a lot. And when I got here, I just fell in love with the city. I canceled the rest of the road trip. I didn't go on it. It was supposed to be like the six month thing. And I canceled and I just moved to Lisbon. And when I got here, I noticed that there wasn't

an English bookstore, even though a lot of people here are fluent in English. And I craved this kind of California style cafe as well, like the food that I remember eating in California that's kind of healthy and wholesome but has its own little flair to it. And I dreamed since college of having some kind of in-person, community-centered kind of vibe, something that we can host events and bring people together

who are creative and entrepreneurial but in a way that feels really wholesome and just create this sense of belonging for people. I remember actually when I first moved here, every day I would go to this coffee shop in Santos and get my coffee and be greeted by the Brazilian owner. And I just felt so at home there. And it gave me that sense of belonging early on. And so pretty quickly, I was starting to think, I think I want to create something like that in Lisbon. Something I love about Lisbon is that I feel like it's a place of a lot of possibility. It's a really up and coming

city. So there are a lot of things that haven't been done here yet, like in other big cities in Europe. And so like there wasn't an English bookstore. Now there was a bookstore that had a shelf of English books but it was like Catcher in the Rye and the Bell Jar was like if I want to have an existential crisis here's where to go but if I want to read something current or new then there wasn't anywhere to buy that. So that was how the idea started to unfold. It took me about a year from having the idea to actually starting to work on it because I think and I think that was that was good timing because I think I needed to settle a bit more into myself here into the country meet some more people who really helped to guide me on the path of

opening this kind of thing because I had no experience in this field before not even working in a cafe. The most adjacent business I ever was in was working at a gelato store when I was 15. So this was a very new project for me, but that was where it started. I totally assumed you must have at some point worked in a cafe. No, no. Wow. When I worked at a gelato store, actually, I still swear that was one of my favorite jobs ever because I love having those little moments with people, like talking to customers and yeah and I just always have loved bringing people together in community I realized that that's the through line of everything I've created is building community that's like my my metric of success in a way and so yeah that's that was really how Fable began was wanting to create a space for community.

And how hard was it to set it up? Like, I can't even imagine finding a place like the permitting in a foreign country. Like, was it really hard? You know what? It was hard times, but I feel like the mindset I had around it was knowing there were going to be challenges, but that it was meant to be fun. So I didn't feel, there were hardly any moments that felt like an absolute pain or a struggle. And I feel like I

kind of got a lot of breadcrumbs along the way from people pointing me in the right direction. And I think waiting a year to build connections and relationships with people here helped a lot too. I wasn't going into it completely blind. But I remember I wasn't actually looking to start it when I did. I just kind of was on the housing website here. It's called Idealista. I was on Idealista late at night one day as all business ideas do start, right? And I found this space. It didn't have any photos, which three places that I've bought or like rented in the past, I always find them without photos. And I'm just've, I've bought or like rented in the past. Uh, I always find them without photos and I'm just like, I'm just going to go for it. It seems like it's in a

good area. And you know what I had in mind and I looked at it and it was exactly what I wanted. It had an outdoor space. It had this area that would be perfect for a bookstore. It looked like an absolute wreck, Natalie. It was, It was a bar before and they just left all of their old furniture and a mattress and hay bales and just random stuff. And when I saw it, there was a part of me that felt like there's this space that really looks unloved right now. But what if somebody could just bring it back to life and breathe a little bit of love into it? And what would it look like then? And I felt inspired by it, but I didn't know where to source books from. I didn't have a menu created. I didn't have a staff picked out yet. Like I don't even know if I had a name. I didn't have

anything ready for the space, but I just signed the lease and I knew that it would come together. And it was probably some of the most fun five or six months of my life. And I really mean that. It was so much fun and such a big challenge, but so much fun. Was it scary financially? I would say it wasn't really because I knew that I've always wanted to do something like this. It was kind of like, I'm going to do this at some point in my life. I'm going to invest this money into a project like this at some point. So why not just do it now? And it could be scary if I choose to think of it that way of like, this is a good amount of money I'm investing into something. Or I could see it as this is a lifelong dream I've always had. So I get to do this. I get to

spend this money on something that I'm excited about and passionate about. Yeah. So it was scary in a way, but in a bigger way, it felt just so aligned that I was okay if I invested it, started it, and then lost all of the money that I put into it, just knowing that I had actually pursued a dream. Yeah. Okay. So in my head, I don't know if I'm romanticizing it. Tell me if I am. I'm just envisioning. Yeah. I'm just envisioning, you know, because I know what it's like having an online business and it feels like there are fires constantly. People always demanding so much of my time. And so I know what that thought has looked like. I am romanticizing. All right, let's move to a foreign country. Let's open a little cafe. My life is just going to be

so serene and romantic and peaceful. Am I romanticizing it too much? I don't know, because I often do feel like that, although there are problems. I think something that's that I feel about myself is that I tend to see problems as, well, we'll find a solution. So I'm not super bothered by them when they arise. And there, I mean, the day before you went to Fable recently, our bathrooms flooded and there was like sewer water on the ground. And I wasn't even here. I was in Amsterdam. And so I'm getting these text messages from our manager of, we need to close early because the bathrooms aren't working.

And so there's things like that where you could take it as, oh my God, I'm in another country. My shop is closing early. We had to cancel our book clubs that night. What a disaster. Or it can be like, oh, this kind of sucks. And also it's sort of hilarious and we're going to get it fixed and tomorrow we're going to open and it's going to be fine. And I think I've always gone into it with that mindset of it's going to be okay, even when things arise. I'm super blessed to have a really amazing team there. I think that's what makes it possible to feel more at ease with it. Before I started it, I thought I'm going to interview a few people who have cafes in Lisbon and just see what they think about their own business.

Like, do they enjoy it? And 100% of them said, it's really stressful. I don't know if I would have done this again, if given the choice. 100% of them said that. And so, but when I hear that from people, my reaction isn't to be like, okay, yeah, maybe I shouldn't do this. It's more like, okay, well, I'm going to be the one that loves it then. I'm like that. I'm like, just because that's your experience. Yeah. It's like, well, that's good for you. And I'm sorry that you have that experience, but I'm going to find a way to love it. And, um, and I honestly do. And it's so fulfilling for me when I go into fable, I made a, actually with my coach recently, I made this resource list

of like things to do when I am feeling like I want to reconnect to myself or I'm feeling down or something like that. And on the list is go to Fable because it brings me so much joy and peace to be there. It's like, it's my happy place. And I love our team. I love the food we serve. I love the books, being around books and curating the selection of books. I love the people that go in and the events that we host. It just genuinely feels really fulfilling. And it is stressful sometimes. Yeah.

Like any business. Like any thing in life, you know, having kids or a partner. And those are stressful things too. But it's worth it if it's the right thing. Totally. And what I hear and that total shift in you is everything, life is going to life always. And when you were saying a hundred percent of them said it was so stressful and they probably wouldn't do it again. I always wonder what they were maybe searching for, for that business to give them that it didn't. Whereas when you go

into it, not needing the business to give you anything, but you're wanting to actually pour into it. That's what it feels like for me. It's just a very different approach to doing it. Do you feel like that? Yeah. I feel like that with most things too, of like going into them with this sense of non-attachment. And that doesn't mean going into them and just being like, well, whatever happens, happens. But it's a sense of here's my intention. Here's what I desire. And then I understand that life is going to change and move and I get to dance with it. And it might lead me to a different place, but maybe that place will be more beautiful. How will I know until I get there? And so just being able to dance with things as they arise and yeah, being unattached

to the outcome and, and going, going with the flow, being the flow, you know, I feel, I feel that a lot in the way I live my life now. So speaking of the way you live your life, can you give me a contrasted version of what your calendar used to look like, let's say 2019 versus how your calendar looks today. We're in 2024. Let's see. 2019, I would have been in some business mentorship programs. So I'd be flying to New York a lot. I lived in LA at the time, flying to New York a lot. I lived in LA at the time. I was flying to New York a lot for that. Maybe doing a webinar or creating a course, business meetings. I had a podcast as well, so doing podcast interviews. My calendar was pretty stacked. There were a lot of things in the calendar, leading coaching calls, team meetings, team retreats. There's a lot going on, on top of, you know, having a relationship and trying to work out when I could and having a life outside of that and socializing. So it was busy.

And now I feel that, you know, it's, it feels more peaceful. And that's really what I was craving simplicity. That was the number one reason why I moved on from my last business. It felt too complex. And now my calendar feels a lot more fluid and more simple. It's like I can have days where there's nothing, if that's what I need in that moment, where I just, where I go out into nature, go to the beach with my dogs and just let them run around. And, or I just stay at home and I journal or do breath work or, you know, just be in my own energy. Or I can have days like last night, I flew out to Portugal. I'm in Amsterdam for a little bit right now and flew back to Portugal. And now I get to

have this conversation with you, which is delightful. And I get to go to Fable tomorrow. And today I'm spending time with friends and, you know, it just depends, but there's a lot more choice. And now I'm really grateful that Fable is running largely without me. It's gotten to a place where the staff is taking care of most of the operations of it. And so it's also giving me an opportunity to dream of what might be next and other projects and businesses that could be on the horizon. So that's kind of what my calendar is looking like these days. Do you have a sense of what's next for you? What's on the horizon? I have a couple senses. Yeah, I think I'm an experimenter. I like to try new things. I have a couple of app ideas that I'm interested in trying.

I'd love to try that industry. I think I thrive the most when I'm put up against the challenge of something that I have. I just don't know how it works. And then learning all the things and putting that into practice. I'd also love to write books. That's something that I've wanted to do since I was like five years old. And now having a bookstore and be surrounded by books and hosting a lot of literary events at the bookstore. And that's become something that I really want to get more into. And I thought before it was a nonfiction book. Like when I had my business, I was working with a book proposal coach and creating a business kind of coaching book.

And now I think it would be more novels and stories and that kind of thing. So those are things that I know at one point in my life I will create. But in the more recent future, I want to start coaching again as well. I feel like I've been away from it for a few years now and I crave it. Like I miss it. It's not something that I walked away from because I hated coaching. It was something I just needed to change at the time. But I want to support people in a different way. So before it was more like inner work for business owners, it got to that point. And now I really want to support people who are in like the sense of renaissance within themselves, where they're at the edge of the shore and they see that maybe something else is on the horizon

for them. And they just don't know how to swim out there. They need some support to go through that metamorphosis or transformation to become this truer version of themselves. And I did a lot of that in my last business in a more low key way. And now I'd like to make that something that I really focus more on. So I think it's the juiciest spot of life. Like I think so. When you're in that point of there could be a before and after you could choose the path you've been going down and you know, that'll give you the same results and maybe lead to more and more and more resistance or you have a choice to go down a new path that feels like this is who I am becoming.

I think there's so much magic in that if we choose that. I love that. And I love the idea of supporting people through that too because I think it's very challenging to walk that path alone and very very scary yeah I could totally and also I could totally see fiction novels from you yeah I could totally see that um so can you give me like a typical day in the life of your life now? Yes. So it's going to sound a little boring, I think, but I think it's going to sound perfect. Well, I've got two dogs and I love animals, but I have two dogs. I'd love to have an animal sanctuary one day, by the way.

That's also on the radar. So I wake up and walk them, make breakfast at home. We've been in Amsterdam for a little while now. And so we'll walk to a coffee shop, grab a coffee and just kind of sit. I like to just sit there. I don't bring my, you know, journal or go on my phone or anything and just look around, notice people, notice life. And then I'll take them for a walk, usually the park and super green parks just feels really nice to be outside maybe go for a bike ride to meet a friend somewhere uh something that I like about Amsterdam too is such a biking city so I'll go for a bike ride to meet a friend maybe for coffee um and then come home and do some of my practices like I'm a big journaler. I also love to read.

So obviously. So probably one of those things. Probably check in a bit on fable work. If there's anything there that they need me. Or maybe working on some new plans for this coaching or novel writing. That kind of stuff. And then yeah cook some dinner or meet a friend for dinner and probably have a pretty quiet evening unless there's something dancey and fun happening. I'm always game for that. I do also love going for hikes and just being outside as much as I can.

But yeah, pretty simple days, but it feels fulfilling, right feels it feels right what do you think melissa of 2017 would have said if she heard melissa 2024 outline her daily routine i think she would be proud of me number one i think she'd be proud i think that was what she she wanted that whole time as well I think she would be proud of me. Number one, I think she'd be proud. I think that was what she, she wanted that whole time as well. I think she wouldn't necessarily know how to get there because I think we've got to go through the turmoil and the change and the fear in order to get to that place. So maybe she'd look at it as kind of like, how'd you do that? And I think more than anything, she'd be proud that I was able to make those changes that

at the time didn't feel possible. Has there ever been any regret from these decisions you've made? No. No. I don't really feel regret about things. I feel like it's all part of the tapestry, right? Like, you can make mistakes, but I don't really feel regret about things. I feel like it's all part of the tapestry, right? Like you can make mistakes, but I don't regret them. And I don't feel like I made any mistakes in closing it because even if on the outside, you know, closing a successful business might look

like an unconventional decision. And it is. If it's what aligns in your heart, then it's what aligns in your heart. You know, people do seemingly crazy things all the time. But if it's what feels true, then can't argue with that. And so that's what I feel about the choices I've made in the life that I live. I feel proud of myself, too. You know, 2024 Melissa feels proud of herself, too, for choosing things that maybe were different. And now getting to this place where I feel so secure in myself and just so much joy. Like I really mean that I'm not just playing it up for a podcast, but so much joy every day and just feeling like, yeah, it took a lot of struggle and challenge to get to that place

of erasing some old identities and letting go of things that weren't fulfilling me anymore. And I feel really just in gratitude a lot of the time. And what advice would you give to someone who feels themselves on the precipice of a different way of being and living? Maybe felt this niggle or heard this voice in their head for quite a long time and is getting to a point, maybe they're even listening to this podcast, where their whole body is telling them it's time to make a change. What would you say to that person? Yeah. I would say, know the practices that help you commune with yourself, whether that's going into nature alone, maybe it's going on a solo trip, journaling, breathwork, yoga, anything where you get to actually come into a deeper

awareness of how you feel. Because it's one thing to have the thought of like, this doesn't really feel good, or I feel stressed. But then it takes a lot of courage to go beneath and beneath and beneath the thought to really get to the core fear and like what's actually here? What am I really trying to avoid and how am I masking it? So getting to that place of real understanding and connection to yourself and then surrounding yourself with people who are on a similar journey or path. Maybe they've kind of gotten to a place where you also want to go. Because I think if you're in the echo chamber of the thing that you think, maybe this isn't really working for me anymore, it's really hard to leave because we're so driven for community. We're so driven for belonging. So finding even just one person, whether it's a coach or it's friends, or it's a community that you can find that challenges that

belief system you have that shows you another way is possible. Then I think putting yourself in that place and learning from those people and observing them and just taking on a little bit more of that energy too. That's what I would do. That's so good. And if anyone's interested in maybe coaching with you through a process like that, is there a way they could connect with you? Yeah. So I'm currently probably by the time this comes out, it'll be different. But if they go to my website, melissagriffin.com, then they'll be able to see there or my Instagram, melissa underscore Griffin. Those are the best places. Amazing. Is that the best place everyone can find you? Yeah. Yes. And then if they want to check out Fable as well,

my bookshop cafe in Lisbon, the Instagram for that is Fable Lisbon. What's your favorite thing on the menu? We have a kimchi breakfast wrap that I love. But there's also if you go for lunch, there's a satay cauliflower bowl, which I always get with halloumi it was so good I had the halloumi on the side of avocado toast the other day it was so good and then I had the best cappuccino and matcha I was I was in fable for five hours were you yeah I just felt so inspired I had a two-hour brunch with a friend and then I sat I always feel so at home with books I grew up in libraries and just I I love books and I just sat at the table closest to all of the books and I sat and I wrote and my soul was just so at peace you've created a real little slice of magic thank you

thanks for visiting and thanks for just like being part of it too the the idea of it for me was that every person that goes into it contributes a piece of the soul of that place. And so I'm just grateful for you for going there and thank you. I loved it. Thank you.

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