the bossbabe podcast - 427: CEO Mama: The Motherload & Resentment in Early Motherhood

Episode Date: October 19, 2024

Natalie and Lindsay delve into the complexities of motherhood, particularly focusing on the theme of resentment. They discuss how early motherhood can bring unexpected feelings of resentment, especially in the context of being the primary caregiver and breadwinner. The conversation emphasizes the importance of communication, self-care, and building a supportive community to navigate these challenges. They share personal experiences and insights on how to address feelings of inequality and the mental load that often falls on mothers.  TIMESTAMPS 01:00 - Navigating Resentment in Early Motherhood 09:00 - The Breadwinner Dilemma and Unequal Loads 19:40 - Communication: The Key to Addressing Resentment 29:30 - Self-Care and Support Systems 40:00 - Building Community and Connection RESOURCES + LINKS Join Growth Day To Access All of Natalie’s Keynotes & Unlock The Best High-Performance Systems + Tools.  Join The Société: Our Exclusive Membership To Help You Build A Freedom-Based Business. Get Our Weekly Newsletter & Get Insights From Natalie Every Single Week On All Things Strategy, Motherhood, Business Growth + More.  Drop Us A Review On The Podcast + Send Us A Screenshot & We’ll Send You Natalie’s 7-Figure Operating System Completely FREE (value $1,997)  FOLLOW bossbabe: @bossbabe.inc Natalie Ellis: @iamnatalie

Welcome back to the Bossmate Podcast. Okay, so today is a CEO Mama episode and one topic that felt really important to record was on resentment. Because I would say for me in early motherhood, this is one of the things that I didn't anticipate. Like I didn't read a lot of the books and things like that, so maybe it was more talked about, but when it actually showed up for me in early motherhood, I was really surprised.

And I would say that was one of the biggest challenges I had to work through my marriage was resentment Did you know to prepare for this? Did it hit you like I remember when it hit me I was shocked at how intense it was. Yeah, I I don't think I was even like Conscious in the first couple years of motherhood of any of this stuff I think it's now come so much more into my radar as I've gotten more focused on it. But when I look back, I remember the very first memory I have of feeling it was I sent R.T. a text message because he like I worked at home and he worked out of the home and he got to leave every day. And I remember sending a text message and being like, when you get home, you have to take

over because I have been doing everything all day. And it was like that energy of when you get home, and I remember years later, he brought that up in counseling therapy and was like, the tone of that really was off putting for me because I knew how angry you were, but you weren't saying like what you needed. You were just like, when you get home.

And now, yeah, I mean, just that feeling in my body, I'm like, that's it. But it's exactly what you said. It's like, there's this like overarching feeling of I'm doing everything and you don't see it and you're just out all day working. And so when you get home, you have to like understand what you've missed all day. Um, it's very insidious, but, but so real too. And, and I think all of us have it, all of us. I don't think you're immune to it at all. Yeah. And what really surprised me too is how much it would show up being the breadwinner. The feeling of things being unequal, like of taking the role of primary parent plus

being breadwinner, plus feeling like I'm primary housekeeper, like all the things. Um, I didn't really anticipate just how much that would be an issue for us in navigating that in early motherhood. And I felt like there were only certain people I could talk to about it. Cause I would have other friends that would really try and, and maybe this worked for them, but I felt like they would bypass it and say things like, well, don't make money mean so much. And for me, it was never about money meaning so much.

It's about what it symbolized. And what it symbolized to me was just across the board, there were a lot of things in the relationship that were feeling unequal. And so it was a symptom, not the root cause, but it was a symptom that I got to pay attention to that helped me get to the root cause, which was ultimately this feeling of, I need things to feel more equal in our relationship as a whole. So, and then, you know, I need to work on my resentment, which was, you know, a good chunk of my own work. And I did want that equality. Like I think the personal development world sometimes can gas you a little,

gas you a little bit. No, I think the personal development world can gaslight you a little bit, like, oh, if you're feeling resentment, that's all on you. But actually, that was a symptom of things being actually unequal and me not being okay with it. Like things, you know, have really shifted. Let's say in the last 50 years, the rise of female breadwinners, I think is absolutely amazing. And I absolutely love this for women, but I think as those stats have risen, from what I felt and from what I have seen talking to a lot of other women in this situation, they still feel like they're carrying the majority of the load when it comes

to parenting at home. So it was just a very interesting dynamic and it wasn't such an easy fix, but yeah, post personal development, I think in Gaslight you a little bit being like, that's all you, that's your own inner work. And it is okay to expect your partner to pull their fair share of weight around the house and in parenting. Yeah. I mean, for me, I think too, it's the depletion that we're under in those early days and months and years too, where the resentment can almost come biologically, like primally.

It's not even necessarily, even if there are things that are balanced or even if you're not the full breadwinner, where your body is so depleted, you know, you're not sleeping, you're healing, like you and I both had c-sections. I mean, some of those first few months, I was like, I, I can barely freaking move. I am healing from a massive surgery and I have a 10 pound baby I'm pulling around, like, I literally can't do everything. Like, it's not even about having to, right? It's that like, I'm, my body is screaming at me, my nervous system is screaming at me to rest, and I can't because I'm the default parent or I have to make money for us. And so there's also, I think, this undercurrent of, are we even supported in our basic human needs to heal and how our society kind of also bypasses and gaslights that, that like, you should be back to work in six weeks, like, you should be able to bounce back physically. And I think, like, I do think that is changing a lot. But I also feel like social media maybe gives us a little bit of a mixed message there. Because I think we can see, we can, we can have real talks and understand like the breadwinner and all the default parent and all of the healing we need to do. But then we also see people who seem to like have all this spaciousness. And, and it's easy for, and all of this, and I think it's very easy

to fall into the trap of like, I'm either not being supported, it has to be 50-50, or this is just the way it is and it all has to fall on me and I've just got to figure out a way to make it happen. And I think for me too, the thing that shifted when you said like the last 50 years, what's so interesting is, and I've talked about this before I think with you, but it's like the 50-50 thing is so interesting too around resentment because I don't actually think when I really think through all the things that are on my mental load. I don't actually think I want it to be 50-50. Like not, I don't know, it's such a nuance because I'm like, well, I don't want to like not know about a lot of this stuff. Like I want to be involved in a lot of it.

I just, it's like how do we share the load in ways? Or are there things that I don't need to be involved in that you can take on? Or could you, like, even the breadwinner conversation, it's not like you can push a button and just make them make more money. You know, I, we've already, you and I have had this conversation where I'm like, I would love if, if I didn't have to be the breadwinner, because I do feel like that adds a lot of mental load, but it's not so easy to just push a button, be like, make more money, RT. And so how else can they show up for us in other ways that can take away some of the resentment, but aren't necessarily just taking on 50-50 of the parenting?

Because I also then go down these spirals of, well, I wanna be involved in what my kids are doing. Like, I don't want to fully delegate this thing or that thing and not know what's going on with it. But then it's kind of on me then to figure out like, well, where can he support me more? Or like, what other things in life need to get taken care of? And I'd be interested in what you and Stephen figured out. But for,, like even now, I have a five and a seven year old, I still feel this way sometimes. And I'm like, you know what? I got the school schedules and all of that

because like once I'm in that, it's hard to like delegate some of that. But could you be more involved at home? Like, could you manage yard maintenance or like snow removal is something I just delegated to RT where I was like, it's fall here. It's gonna start snowing soon. And we have two acres and a long driveway.

Like, I don't want to be shoveling that. Could you please figure out snow maintenance? And like, so stuff like that, I do feel like now I can get my resentment a little bit more even where I'm like, okay, if you can take on these things, all I can manage the kids, but in early motherhood, God, I, I was just, I didn't have vocabulary for it. And I think I was so physically depleted that it was just, it just erupted out of me constantly. And it was, there was no dialogue around how to make it better. It just was. And it honestly, for me, it just was that way until we separated in 2020 and had to have these conversations to rebuild our relationship.

So I, the early motherhood piece is so, I think so hard, so hard. It is really hard. I'm so for us, this was one of the big things that we wanted to address when we joined a mastermind last year when Noemi was one. And this was like a core thing, like, okay, if this is at the root, how do we address it? And that mastermind was actually really good container for us doing that. Like I'm just such a big advocate of getting support. And I think that was really, really needed.

So a couple of things that I think have made a really big shift for us is. Around the, the money piece and the breadwinner piece. So it's, it's very interesting because I think in most situations, Stephen would be the breadwinner. He has a really successful multimillion dollar company. Obviously, Boss Baby's just a really successful company. And so I think I had this realization of like, I'm not expecting that to be equal.

I've been in business a lot longer, I'm not expecting it to be equal. So that was just a really interesting realization and really getting to look for all the ways in which he supports me in being able to do this is really, really helpful. Like when I look for it, I can really see that and really see like, oh shit, I actually couldn't do what I do without you supporting me. Um, and that helped me helped me to really see this more of a shared financial mentality,

but just like being totally honest, that was something I had to work on because it was, it wasn't that money was the issue. It was just like, okay, it feels like this is one of the things I can cling to because things energetically don't feel weighted. But when we got to the root of that, it was like, oh, it's actually not about that at all. And another thing I realized is I don't feel weighted, but when we got to the root of that, it was like, oh, it's actually not about that at all.

Um, and another thing I realized is I don't want to feel like I am having to think of the things that need to get done and then ask you to do the things. And so we had a conversation around by default, what are the things that I'm going to take on and by default, what are the things you're going to take on? And how do we not let things overlap in that way? That's been really, really helpful. So for me, I want to take the lead on things like products that we use around the house. I want to make sure everything's non-toxic. I really want to take the lead there. I love dressing Noemi, so all of her clothes, all of her products, all of that. Groceries for the house, like I want to create all the lists, things like that.

With Steven, he takes on any kind of tech stuff in the house. Trash, recycling, yard work, like anything that breaks. I don't know, man jobs, I guess, if we're being really sexist. So we kind of had that conversation of like, let's actually like, we actually sat and made a whole spreadsheet. And there's a game called Fair Play that one of my friends recommended that was really helpful because you play the game and it basically helps you to see all the little things that you're maybe not paying attention to. And again, that was really illuminating because I did realize there were things Stephen was doing that I wasn't seeing

paying bills like I would just not even see the bills come in. So he's handling it. I wasn't seeing him handle it. So some of this, my resentment was building completely unfairly and just needed some awareness being brought to it. And then other things was like, yeah, you know what? It does feel unweighted. So how can we shift this a little bit?

And then, you know, other things was just, I had said to Stephen, like, I just want to feel like you're just taking care of us a bit more, like I'm, I sometimes just feel like we're passing ships. And then I'm taking on a good chunk of the load with Noemi and while you're doing other stuff, it's feeling like we're passing ships and parallel parenting.

And so, I mean, you know, you've been at my house many, many times over the past couple of years. He makes breakfast every single morning without fail. It doesn't matter what's going on, what time he gets up, what time anything's happening. He makes breakfast for us all. And so he always brings Noemi in to me. She has a bottle in bed. We always cuddle together.

We lie in bed for like half an hour, just like us. And then we'll get up, breakfast all made, supplements are all out. Like those little things have been really, really helpful. But I would say going to that mastermind and getting that support. So whether it's a therapist, whether it's the fair play card game, I do think having external support with the resentment piece is so important because resentment is such a big, heavy emotion that will build if you don't voice it. Oh, it's like, it's one of the four horsemen of the apocalypse or whatever the Gottman

Institute calls those in relationships. Like resentment is the undercurrent of almost every ultimate what drives to everything that ends a relationship. You know, and it's communicate, it leads to communication breakdown, it leads to like, you know, then people start to like weaponize intimacy because they resent the other person and you start to be like, well, he's not doing things, I'm not going to have sex with him, you know, or like those kind of things, or it starts to be reasons people stray or they become, they betray the relationship or whatever, you know, depending on what your

boundaries are there. And it all comes back ultimately, I mean, I've done enough marriage counseling in a good way, that it's like, it ultimately comes back ultimately. I mean, I've done enough marriage counseling in a good way that it's like, it ultimately comes back to, can you communicate about these resentments in the moment or as they come up versus letting them become these big things that then, you know, bubble under the surface until they erupt as a deal breaker. And I think it's so, like, I love how you guys do it because you were the one

who told me, you just have to get to this point. If you're the breadwinner and you're an outsized breadwinner, I think there's this fine line between outsized breadwinner like you and I are where we make significantly more money. It's not balanced at all, but there's a lot of women for whom I think their income is very important to their family system, but it's not like they way out earn, you know? So it's not like their work is so much more important because they are the only one making money or they make way more. And I think the conversation around money, and you said it, of like, you have to just remove the charge that money is the measure of contribution. Because, and I think that's a really, really hard pattern for most of us to break, because when we look at society,

and we look at how a lot of us were raised, the person who made the money had the power. Like like they made the decisions, or it was their schedule that was prioritized all the time. Or like, it just there was only one parent making money, or one partner in the in the couple making money and so that's that's just the default right and so removing that charge entirely felt like a huge unlock for me when we had this conversation, because if money is considered in the equation, money seems to be the most powerful thing always and forever, right? Like, great that Stephen makes breakfast. If money is the thing, like, no amount of breakfasts are ever going to make up the difference in income, right? And so breakfast are ever going to make up the difference in income, right? And so for me, it's been a lot of that work. And also looking at like, the nuance of money also is interesting because for me, we looked at things like, okay, I make more revenue. Like I have a higher income

monthly, but he has a higher net worth and like way better credit because his credit didn't get crushed in COVID like mine did when I had failed businesses. And so he has a higher net worth and like way better credit because his credit didn't get crushed in COVID like mine did when I failed, I had failed businesses. And so he, he has like borrowing power and assets that I don't have, but I have a lot of, you know, I make a lot of money every month. And so there's also those kind of considerations that we looked at with removing the charge around money or like the power money carries in this conversation. Because it's like, actually, when we bought this new house, like it was my income that we use for the down payment, my cash, but his credit score and like his, his net worth, his other assets that gave us like the right financial mix to qualify. So like we both were super important

in that financial conversation. And so that's been an unlock for me of like, just the monthly income isn't the only thing money brings to a conversation and in a partnership. And if you can remove money as the measure of fairness, it really makes a, it changes the dynamic of the conversation. But that being said though, like the default parent, the mother being the default parent, I think is just so real. And the resentment of that is something for me that still flares. Like, I mean, just this weekend, I had a sick kid and RT is gone. You know, he's traveling for work. And I'm just like, this is always, this always seems to be what happens, you know?

Like, I end up sleeping on the couch, I end up not getting to do what I need to get done because I'm nursing a sick kid. And of course, I want to and I love my children and I want to be there for them. And like it defaults on to me. Or, you know, the the mental load of pretty much anything that we do, like all their after school activities or leaving for a trip or planning travel or medical care, there's such a list. I know we've talked about these lists and every mom probably relates to the list of the lists. But I feel like as you get out of early motherhood,

if you do a good job of neutralizing the big charges of resentment, like money and the household and things that they can really be helping with, as you get a little further in, it starts to get like the default parent thing, I think becomes the pressure point of mom ends up being the person the school calls when there's a sick kid. Mom ends up being the one who fills out all the forms that have to get filled out at the beginning of school year. Mom ends up being the one who like, does all the interviews for the childcare providers. Like, we just hired a new nanny. And like, R.T. offered to help, but that's one

of those things where I'm like, I have to do this. I have to know who this person is. Like, I need to be the one doing this interview. She's going to be taking care of my children." So that's another conversation I think is so big here is like the default parent and mothers and how like, do we, we, we resent being the default parent by default, but we also want a lot of those roles and we want to be involved in a lot of that stuff. And so how do you manage being the default parent and, and not let it lead to resentment or just clear the resentment when it comes at a time, when like the call from the school comes at a time where it falls on you, you know?

Like I literally had that today and Artie's on an airplane home and I'm like, well, this falls on me and like I'm annoyed by that, but it's also, it's just the way life goes and I can't hold on to that resentment. Yeah, no, I agree with you. And I definitely feel like I do want that default parent role. I do want that, like you say, so then it's just been really important for me to communicate all the things I don't want in the relationship as a whole, like seeing that whole bigger

picture and seeing all these pieces play together, just seeing what areas I don't want has been really, really helpful. And I think like you said, it is a very ongoing conversation. I don't think this is one and done and I don't think you clear your resentment and then it's gone. It shows up in so many different phases as you enter different phases of parenting. But I do think having the language to be able to address it at the root and ask for what you want or need clearly without the charge is so much more helpful, which I didn't have

that language in early motherhood. I just didn't fully understand what I was feeling, why I was feeling it. I just didn't get it. Whereas now I feel like I have more of the language in seeing the whole family unit and how we all play together as a team. And if it's one of those fluid situations where I'm going to be diving in more for something unseen in one area, like I need to know how to communicate what I need in other areas. That's been huge. And honestly, hiring so much support has been really, really helpful.

I was just having dinner with a group of moms when I went for the retreat a few weeks ago and we were at dinner and someone asked the question, oh, because they're planning, they were planning to have their first baby and someone asked the question, if you could all go around and say what's one thing you would have wished you'd known in early motherhood, what would it be? And the resounding answer was hiring support earlier. Everyone said it and I relate too, like you don't know how much support you're going gonna need and if you can afford it, if that is available to you, doing that sooner rather than later and getting more support than you actually think you need is an absolute game changer. And I really and whether it's you know, paid support, whether it's a trade of some kind, whether it's family, whatever it is, having that support has been an absolute game changer. And I even know now if there's, if I'm going through sprint seasons or I

feel like there's a lot upcoming, I will normally reach out to one of my family members and say, Hey, do you want to come stay with us and help out? Cause I'm already feeling this is going to be a lot. And that like little extra hands on deck, those little things make the biggest difference. And I feel like my relationship just thrives way more because of it when there are more hands on deck and it just doesn't fall on the two of you to kind of figure it out together and you're both struggling with little sleep and it's just a recipe for disaster. Let's take a quick pause to talk about my new favorite all-in-one platform, Kajabi. You know I've been singing their praises lately because they have helped our business

run so much smoother and with way less complexity, which I love. Not to mention our team couldn't be happier because now everything is in one place, so it makes collecting data, creating pages, collecting payment, all the things so much simpler. One of our mottos at Boss Baby is simplify to amplify and Kajabi has really helped us do that this year. So of course I needed to share it here with you. It's the perfect time of year to do a bit of spring cleaning in your business, you know, get rid of the complexity and instead really focus on getting organized and making things as smooth as possible. I definitely recommend Kajabi to all of my clients and students.

So if you're listening and haven't checked out Kajabi yet, now is the perfect time to do so because they are offering BossBabe listeners a 30 day free trial. Go to kajabi.com slash BossBabe to claim your 30 day free trial. That's kajabi.com slash boss babe to claim your 30 day free trial. That's kajabi.com slash boss babe. Yeah. The don't want list is so smart. I think that's a huge hack because I think a lot of times when the resentment starts to build and even if you do have an open communication, it's like, well, I want to be at the doctor's appointments.

I want to go to school. I want to do all the like, I want this. And it's like, then then your partner's like, Well, okay, I'm not hearing any way here that I, that I can help because you're not, you want to do all of this stuff. But you can't, like, you're telling me you're overwhelmed or you're whatever, but, but you're saying you want it all, okay, what can I help with? So the don't want makes a lot of sense, I think, in that way. And it can, and then hiring, as you're talking, I'm like, what's so interesting? Like I, you know, we hired a nanny fairly early on, but the thing we didn't hire for out of like, I mean, initially, because we couldn't afford to, but after that, it was like that feeling of like, oh, this is something we should be able to just handle ourselves.

But things now, looking back, I'm like lawn care, you know, like, like when we had new babies and we also had this huge lawn to deal with all the time. And there was a Saturday would take a couple hours to go mow the lawn, you know, and he's like, well, I got to go mow the lawn. And then I'm just like stuck inside with two little kids. And I'm like, okay, these are things where, you know, small amounts of money overall can take something time consuming off the plate that nags at me as something of like, well, okay, what am I supposed to do for a couple hours? I

guess I'll just have to default to being the only caretaker because this has to get done. And so there's hiring and it doesn't always have to be childcare that you hire because I know sometimes people hear us say that kind of stuff and they're like, I don't want to hire childcare. I don't have, you know, childcare is so insanely expensive comparatively. A lot of us are like, maybe I don't hire childcare, but I can get a neighborhood kid to mow my lawn. And for 20 bucks, it saves two hours of my husband's time. And that's time that we can share the load of, of the childcare or whatever. So I think there's ways of thinking about it like that and looking around the whole system of everything that's on the mental load and knowing what you don't want to deal with and, and being more clear on

like, What, what would be the support plan on these things that I don't want to be a part of so that I can focus on what I do want to be a part of? Yeah. And then I feel like the last thing that you said too, that you guys do so well is like connecting and talking about it. And you've learned how to do that through Mastermind. And I, Artee and I learned how to do that in couples counseling. But the best thing, like this is my hack that I share with everybody is like, I know it sounds silly, but a weekly date night, even if it's a weeknight, is such a huge help when you put like structure around it and it's literally set aside a time so that you can have these conversations and you can air this stuff. Because I think the other thing when it comes to resentment that I've noticed is, especially

in early motherhood, but honestly anytime is like, when do you have time to sit down and have a hard conversation? Because most of us will avoid hard conversations in favor of sticking to the plan, getting the things done. Sleep. Yeah, like, and yeah, if you're, if your only time to have a hard conversation is at 9 o'clock at night after your kids are asleep, and now you're trying to have a hard conversation that could be hours long, that causes emotions. And then you're not getting sleep. And like like that sends people on a spiral.

Like so I think something you guys learned and you and I have talked about a lot is is when is you have to have intentional time to have these conversations too and that's another layer of resentment being the the symptom of like the root cause of lack of connection and like lack of communication and that's a big thing in early motherhood is there isn't that the symptom of like the root cause of lack of connection and like lack of communication. And that's a big thing in early motherhood is there isn't that much time. So you have to be really intentional about, hey, this is time for our partnership and this is time to have hard conversations.

And no one loves a hard conversation, but you feel so much better once it's done. Yeah, I completely agree with that. And then another thing I think I would add to the mix is being able to let go of perfectionism and let go of everything needing to be done the way you would do it. That was huge for me. I almost was like, the way I do it is the right way. And when Steven and I were going through this last year and like literally going line by lines of things I want to take off my plate, things he wants to take off his plate, and what we wanted to be swapping all the things.

He was like, you're also going to have to like loosen up your control freak and let me do things the way I do them because you're always not always the right way. You know, I have my own way of doing things and I don't want to hear you complain about it. And I also had such a realization of like, yeah, I can totally get like that. Like it's not done this way. It's not right. And then when I actually look at it, it's like, wait, that was done perfectly fine. I'm just being a control freak and being very attached to everything needing to be my way. Letting go of little things like that releases so much mental load.

Huge. I think that's like, we all need to hear that in every facet of life, even in work or in any goal that you have or anything that you want to do well. It's like, we get so hung up on details or perfectionism and then you overlook that fact that it's getting done and that you're making progress and that everybody's okay. You know, like I said this to you last week, but I had a call with my coach last week and she's like, what if nothing's wrong?

And I was like, huh, how could you say that? Like, I can always find something that could be done better. And she's like, yeah, but like, this is life. Like you're living life. Like, what if nothing's wrong? And I think that's also such a, just a metaphor for all of us in this time of our life and culture of just being like, yeah,

there's everywhere you look, you can see shit that's wrong. So like, what if you find places in your life where nothing's wrong and you're just okay with it being how it is, and like, what an unlock. But I do think in parenting and home and everything, it's like, if it's all functioning and everybody's okay and everybody's fed and like, you know, maybe it's not perfect, but if nothing's wrong,

like don't go looking for things to pick on, right? And I, that's one of those things that I see sometimes in my friend groups where I'm like, it feels like you're like picking on things, you know? And I think that's another symptom of undercurrents of resentment in other places where, you know, you're wanting this thing over here to be perfect when it doesn't need to be because you're actually resentful about this other thing over here that's not even getting done at all. And so instead of picking on perfectionism, can you go and have a

broader conversation around all these things we've already talked about, you know, where them, can you go and have a broader conversation around all these things we've already talked about, you know, where there's other things you don't want to be doing that aren't getting done at all. So I think that's a big growth point for a lot of us to look at is like, we'd like to pick on perfection for sure, for sure. But what if nothing's actually wrong? Like if it's getting done and you'all are surviving and everybody's okay, like sometimes that's the season of life for it and that's good enough. Yeah. And what I always love to remind myself too is when I have slept well,

when I have taken my supplements, when I have moved my body, when I have eaten appropriately, I will look for all the amazing things that my husband does and all of the ways in which I am so grateful for him for being such an incredible teammate. And when I haven't slept and I've ate like shit and my blood sugar is crashing, I will look for all of the ways that I'm so resentful and so mad and such a martyr and taking on all of the things. And I think having that perspective

to continuously remind myself of is so interesting. And I'll sometimes look at notes I reflect on of what I am so grateful for and realize, you're really just looking for problems right now. You're just almost looking for a fight. You're almost looking to be a martyr because you're feeling some kind of way. Whereas when all of the basic boxes are ticked, you're actually really in love

with him and he's a freaking amazing guy and does more than pose his weight. But I also think in early motherhood, it's very hard to get all of those boxes ticked. You are exhausted if you're breastfeeding, that's also a whole thing. You know, you're fully depleted of minerals and your body is purging hormones left, right and center. So the boxes are not ticked and it's very, very easy for you to feel alone and very easy to feel like you don't have a teammate because you are the breadwinner, because you are the primary parent, because you are doing a lot

around the house. It's so easy to see that. And I think I definitely don't want to gaslight anyone into being like, like, you know, like I was saying, we can do that with personal development work, all those, and all those things. But sometimes that is just an element of like, let's tick the basic boxes and really get to the root of how you feel, because it might feel so much more addressable than it does when you are this exhausted and this depleted. And the two of you having a hard conversation in that state is probably not going to be productive. Like we can be so snippy with each other when we have not slept and we'll wake

up the next day after a good sleep and be like, Whoa, we were not that nice yesterday. And it was not really to do with the root cause. Like when we address it and look at the root this time around, we're like, Oh, actually everything feels pretty clean. Like, no, I don't need changes. I literally just needed sleep. So it really, really depends, I think, but it's very, very hard in the early stages when you aren't getting those basic things.

Yeah. Yeah. It's so real. And like the, I like how you said, like the self-inquiry of where you're needing support, which may not even necessarily be this big thing that happens all the time. It might be like, Hey, I haven't slept. Like the baby's been sick, or I've got something physical going on in my body or, yeah, my hormones are shifting because it's, you know, I don't know, they shift for years afterwards, right? And so it's, it's also being in the inquiry within to go what, what it wears is coming from, like, where, where's the root of this resentment or this feeling I'm feeling? Is

it truly something external? Is it that I'm, I need to sleep, I need to drink more water, like, whatever the, those are very basic things. But I think that's something I didn't spend a lot of time on even in my early motherhood. I was so externally focused all the time. Because I'm a mom, I'm so powerful, I can just override every physical symptom. And I think a lot of my stuff in those years was mostly physical. It was so hard to recover from C-sections. It's a lot on your body. It's like a major surgery, plus you have a baby. And I don't think I fed myself well.

I didn't take supplements. I didn't know what I know now around like mineral depletion. And I have ADHD, and so I couldn't take my ADHD meds while I was breastfeeding. So I was like having all those, you know? And so I wish that this conversation around the self-inquiry piece too, and it's not gaslighting to be like, you should be able to bounce back, but it is, hey, like you're very physically depleted. What do you need right now that is just in this moment?

Yes, like, yes, he could help more with cooking meals, but also like in this moment, do you just need him to hold the baby so you can go take a shower or like, do you need to take a nap? Can you guys split off, switch off nights getting up? Like what are the physical symptom solves to? I think that's such a huge piece. Yeah, it is. You can generally break it down like that. And I think it will show you all the real root issues that were here before we had kids that we were just pushing under the rug and are they really showing up now because there's nowhere to hide. We are exhausted and we have another, we have a little being to take care of.

So all this stuff that we just pushed on the rug actually is really rearing its head and we have to tackle it head on, or is it, you know what, the dynamic has shifted and what worked before is not going to work now and we need to have an honest conversation about that. Sometimes it can be this deep rooted issue and sometimes it can be pretty easy to solve and I found for us, it was a lot easier to solve when we just went to the root, when we stopped telling ourselves stories about what it was, when we both, when we, neither of us needed to be right or proving to one another that we were the busiest, we were the most tired.

Um, which I definitely have noticed we've done before. Well, I'm more exhausted because of this. Well, I, this, it's like, wait, why are we competing as to who gets to be most tired? Why are we competing as to who is doing the most? What are we deriving from that? Are we both feeling really unseen and unappreciated that we need to fight for some recognition? Like what is at the root of it?

Yeah. And it's, yes, some of it's going to be your own work, but some of it is just realness that the two of you need to address and figure out, yes, some of it's going to be your own work, but some of it is just realness that the two of you need to address and figure out, okay, what is this new way of being together looks like? Yeah. I feel like looking back, I think overall with relationship, and I know neither of us are relationship experts, but I feel like I've learned this, is it all roots down into

like uncommunicated or unmet, uncommunicated and then unmet expectations. So, you know, not very, the way I became a parent was by surprise. I mean, we did not plan, like we were not planning to get pregnant. It wasn't like a conversation we had ever had. We'd only been together like six months

and then I got pregnant. So we never really discussed like expectations of what it looks like to have a child, like expectations when we're both working and we both love to work and we're both entrepreneurs. What does it look like to have work on all the time and a kid, kid slash kids home, you know, those were just conversations we never had. And so it's like, if I could turn the clock back, I'd go back and have these expectations setting conversations. And if you're listening, and you already have one child, I would say there is a major shift into two children. And because one child is kind of like the buddy you can bring along places, two children means that like, and two kids that have like

differing schedules, which a toddler and a newborn will have very different schedules. It's like, now you're kind of chained to the house for again, for a while and a newborn will have very different schedules. It's like, now you're kind of chained to the house for again, for a while, you can't like take your buddy around with you. And so if you are both working, both entrepreneurial, and have these, you know, systems in place, or things that you expect for yourself personally, and now are disrupted by having a child in the mix, that's where I would have gone back and been like, okay, zero to one, what's the expectation? Who's, you know, who's prioritized in what settings? Okay, one to two, now we have two children.

There's, that amplifies the needs all around. Okay, who's prioritized in what situations and whose work or whose personal stuff, you know, like those are important conversations and often they don't happen till after the fact, after it's blown up. But you've had expectations all along, you know, and that's a lot of what we've been talking about is like the money stuff, the breadwinner stuff, the physical depletion and exhaustion. Like, I think sometimes we

have this internal, I know I do, I have this internal expectation of like, I make more money, I work harder. I don't get as good of sleep. I win in the contest of who gets to come with their thing. And my expectation is I'm right. And that's not fair or true necessarily. And so I think a lot of what we can do in early motherhood, if we're aware of it, or, you know, prior to motherhood, if we're aware of it, or at any time since you're listening right now is like, Okay, what what expectations do I have

that I've that he's not meeting, but that maybe I've never communicated, and vice versa. Because I think that's where that's where it all roots into. And also, that's the unlock for solving it. Like solving it is not more schedules, more calendars, more lists, usually. Solving it is like a couple really hard conversations to clear this and to get back to feeling like you're a team and that you both have the same goals in raising happy, healthy kids and being adults who are in a great relationship and who contribute to the, like, love their work and contribute to the world. And there's lots of examples of people doing all three of those things really well, as long as there's good communication at the root of it. And I think it all starts with, Here's my

expectations. Here's where they're being met. And here's where they're not being met. And that doesn't mean like yours are right, and his are wrong. Just like a working relationship. It's like, these are my expectations. Just because I have these expectations doesn't necessarily mean they're the correct expectations, but they're my expectations. And so we have to have these conversations, and then agree on what's right for us and then uphold our behavior to those expectations that we've agreed upon. Like that's just core relationship stuff, but I feel like in motherhood or in parenting,

we lose ourselves because of all these things we've talked about, you know, and you have to come back to these fundamental practices and you have to be really, really diligent about doing it regularly. Yeah, I agree. And I think what I would say for anyone that's listening who is deep in feeling that resentment, feeling the mother load, maybe is in early motherhood, one, I would say, trust me, it gets easier. Trust me, this gets easier. It really, really does.

And two, do not underestimate the power of connecting with other moms. Like however you can do it, whether it is going to a play group, whether it is online, a Facebook group, if you can connect with other moms and actually share how you're really feeling, not just this picture of yes, everything's fine. Everything's great, you know, isn't motherhood the best thing in the world? But actually being real and saying, you know what, right now I'm really struggling with resenting my husband so much. Has anyone been through this? Has anyone going through this? And what I have noticed in being part of so many

amazing mom groups over the past couple of years is at every given time, one of you will be going through something the other person has finished going through. And that perspective that you can offer each other is really powerful because it reminds you that this is a season. And when you're really deep in that season, you can feel like it's never ever going to end. Whereas when someone can share that they are out of it and here's what helped and whatever, it just gives you such a perspective shift and it really just helps you voice how you're feeling. Sometimes you've just got to get it off your chest. Remember that it is a season and that you are supported and you're not the only woman in the

world having these thoughts. I think this is, you know, probably a big reason you and I wanted to do this specific podcast segment was not to talk, not to give all the advice because we are not parenting experts. We are not marriage experts. We are not experts in any of the realms we're talking about with this stuff. But what we are willing to do is just have honest conversations and say, you know what? Sometimes my husband pisses me off and you know what? Sometimes it's hard being the one that earns the most. And sometimes it's whatever, right? Just to say it, to say you are not alone. If you are feeling this, every single one of us goes through it, every single one of us.

None of us are exempt no matter what picture you see in someone's highlight reel. And our hope is when you listen to this podcast, sometimes there might not even be a takeaway, but you're like, you know what? I'm not alone. see in someone's highlight reel. And our hope is when you listen to this podcast, sometimes there might not even be a takeaway, but you're like, you know what? I'm not alone. Yeah. No, I think that that's the takeaway is that this is common stuff and it's so real. And if you are feeling like you're the only one, then that's the invitation to go send us a DM. I mean, I get these get these DMs a lot from from when we have

these conversations on the podcast, because I feel like we are really honest about it. And that's something we support each other in a lot. And of course, our CEO mama community does too. But it, I remember those days of feeling like, am I an echo chamber? Like every it just seems like I'm the only one going through this. And then as I made more connection and I started talking my truth more, that's where other people... I got the head nods and the proverbial head nods, like the DMs saying, I feel this exact same way too. And so I think you're never alone in your experience.

It's just whether or not you're sharing it. And yeah, we could lament all day long around how the village doesn't exist anymore, you know? And like these are problems that you would have had grandmothers and aunties and people to support you with in times gone by. And now you have to go find those like sisters and aunties and grandmothers in friends and in communities. And so that's always, yeah, that's why we're here

is like just to tell these stories and to speak from our experience. And Natalie and I talk about this stuff so much, even in our personal, like these are conversations we personally talk about so much. So we like to bring them here because I don't, I love to share this stuff. I feel like this is how I wish I could have learned

five or six years ago when I became a parent. So I'm always happy to talk about it. You know, when you said the village doesn't exist anymore, I got full body chills because you guys just like sneak peek between us. This is something Lindsay and I are working on trying to fix in the most approachable, affordable way. You know, in a way that makes sense that we can actually put our time and energy into it, but in a way that you can join no matter where your business is at.

So if that is something you're interested in, I would say the best step honestly is follow See Your Mama on Instagram because we've been posting on there just trying to get feedback. And you'll notice if you do message us for feedback, we're going to ask you more questions. I'm like, tell me more about that. How like, I genuinely want to know, Lindsay does too, we genuinely, genuinely want to know, what are you struggling with in terms of not having that village?

Cause I think as entrepreneurial women as well, I mean, I know for me, when I had Noemi, I was like, oh my God, I'm so alone. Like, I'm the only one dealing with this. I'm the only one struggling with this. Cause I was seeing everyone else online, just crush it. And I was like, what is wrong with me? Like, why? I seem to have crushed it, like, what is wrong with me? Like, why?

I seem to have crushed business in a past life. Like, why can I not figure this out? So we're actively working on it. We are taking our time because we don't wanna put something out there that is just not right. Like this is absolutely about doing something that solves the problem,

not just launching something for the sake of launching. So when we do it, know that it'll be done right. But I think for now, the best thing would be follow CEO Mama. And then if you feel called, do drop us a DM and just say, you know what, in an ideal world and like, I would say no vision is too big, like in an ideal world, you would deliver X, Y, Z. And it would not even cost me this. Like pitch us all of this because we truly, truly care about solving

this problem for all of us. Like me personally, there's so many women that I follow online that I'm like, I would kill to just get you on a call. Well, not kill, but I would love to get you on a call for 60 minutes and pick your brain on this topic. And I remember feeling this early days of society, like there was so many amazing business women out there. And I thought, you know what?

Selfishly, if I can put together a group of women where I could go out there and like convince this one woman to come and like talk to us for 60 minutes and we can ask questions. Because it's not just like me picking her brain, but there's like a hundred of us. Maybe she'll say, yes, nice. And I think that a lot about a lot of the entrepreneurial moms that I follow sound like, okay, what can we do here? Because there's so much for us to learn. And there's women that have been there, done that, got 10 t-shirts.

And I want to know. So anyway, DM us. But yeah, we want to hear, we're going to ask more questions and whatever we create is going to be next level. Cause it's what we needed. Yeah. And still need honestly, for time. Yeah.

All right. This was fun as always. If you can also drop us a review because that doesn't mean the absolute world. Let us know, are you loving the See Your Mama episodes? Do you feel like it's helpful? Let us know what life stage you're at, what you want to see more, less of. For all ears, we read every single review. We cry over a lot of them and we're just very, very grateful.

So we'll see you guys in a few days. Bye. Wait, wait, wait, before you go, I would love to send you my seven figure CEO operating system completely free as a gift. All you've got to do is leave us a review on this podcast because it really supports the growth of this show. This is my digital masterclass where I'll show you what my freedom-based daily, weekly and monthly schedule looks

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