the bossbabe podcast - 431: CEO Mama: Motherhood Advice I Ignored That Made Me a Happier Mom w/ Alex Wombwell-Povey (Share With All The New Mamas In Your Life!)

Episode Date: November 2, 2024

In this conversation, Natalie Ellis shares her candid experiences and insights on motherhood, discussing the challenges and realities of being a new mom. She emphasizes the importance of seeking help, the impact of sleep on both mother and child, and the necessity of finding a routine that works for each individual family. The discussion also touches on the pressure of adhering to conventional parenting advice and the need for community support in navigating the complexities of motherhood. TIMESTAMPS 01:30 - The Reality of New Motherhood 07:30 - Challenging Conventional Parenting Advice 12:00 - The Importance of Schedules 19:20 - Navigating Sleep Training and Support 24:00 The Role of Community and Help in Parenting RESOURCES + LINKS Join Growth Day To Access All of Natalie’s Keynotes & Unlock The Best High-Performance Systems + Tools.  Join The Société: Our Exclusive Membership To Help You Build A Freedom-Based Business. Get Our Weekly Newsletter & Get Insights From Natalie Every Single Week On All Things Strategy, Motherhood, Business Growth + More.  Drop Us A Review On The Podcast + Send Us A Screenshot & We’ll Send You Natalie’s 7-Figure Operating System Completely FREE (value $1,997)  FOLLOW bossbabe: @bossbabe.inc Natalie Ellis: @iamnatalie Alex Wombwell-Povey: @iamalexandriamaria

I'll be honest, I didn't read a single parenting book. I just thought, you know what, when she comes, I'll know what to do. I'm just laughing at the very hopeful when she comes. I'll know what to do. I'll figure it out. How hard can it be? And I was struggling. I was really, really struggling. I needed every bit of sleep that I could get.

For me, the schedule does work because then it gives me predictability into my day. And we're six weeks into having a newborn baby. I feel like my whole life's up in shambles of like, what's my day look like? That was really powerful for me. I also think it's pretty shitty when people pretend they don't have help and they're doing it all on their own. And I'm like, I'm not going to pretend that

because I did have help from a very, from Noemi's very early age. And I want to be really honest about that because I absolutely do not want any mum comparing themselves to me, thinking that I'm maybe handling it better or whatever. Absolutely not. I had hell.

And if anything, that is something that's always made me feel worse. Like not knowing that someone's actually having help, but they're making out that they don't. And then I'm comparing myself thinking like, well, they're doing it all. Why can't I do it all? But we don't have family here where I can just call up

my mom and be like, hey mom, I'm really struggling today, could you come around and watch the baby for half an hour? So I do also just think that's worth bringing up as well where there's an extra factor here of not actually having support around you naturally. So having to really call in that extra team support a little bit more. Okay, babe, so whenever to really call in that extra team support a little bit more.

Okay, babe, so whenever I've posted about this on Instagram recently, there have been so many moms jumping in being like, Oh my god, same and no one has ever said this before. So I thought let's bring it to the podcast and I think it's gonna be interesting because I think we're gonna be the same on some things but pretty different on some others and I want to know what are the biggest pieces of motherhood advice that you got given that you ignored that actually made you a happier mom? Oh, this could get spicy. Okay, I've made a list.

I've got a list as well. Okay, let's do one each. My first one is co-sleeping. And I felt like I got so much advice that co-sleeping is the best thing for you, the best thing for your baby. Having your baby in another room is like so bad of you and all this stuff. You want the complete honesty? Like full honest truth, from day five I had a night nurse. Good for you babe. From day five my night nurse came at 10 p.m. and she left at 6 a.m.

And guess what? My toddler could not be more securely attached. She could not feel more loved. I have a beautiful relationship with her and I was more well rested for it. And oh, the shame I got for that. I find this well, cause like I've seen your guys relationship.

You were literally, she's literally your mini best friend. It's so adorable. Like you say, so securely attached. And also, you've spoken about this before, you went through a lot in your labor, and I think you needed the rest. Yeah, I went through an incredibly traumatic birth. Like you did. I came home from hospital with PTSD.

Yeah. And I was struggling. I was really, really struggling. I needed every bit of sleep that I could get. Oh, I have so much more advice for this, by the way. Oh my God. There's more that just came to me from someone that said something so offensive to me. Um, we'll get to that part, but yes, I mean, I, I struggled. Yeah. And you know what? Let's get even more fucking real about this. I didn't breastfeed through the night. So here's another thing. So people would say, even the night nurses advice was, we'll bring the baby into you. You can feed and then I'll put the baby back to bed.

Yeah. But in the beginning, I mean, I ended up breastfeeding. I breastfed for 20 months. So we got the hang of it and became really, really easy. In the beginning, it was not easy. I couldn't get, I was like, it took me so long to get her latched to my boob. There was milk flying everywhere. She's crying, we're all soaked in milk.

Like it was a nightmare. And so during the day, I would breastfeed all day. But at night I would pump every three hours and I would leave the milk outside my room and I would go back to bed Yeah, and my night nurse was an absolute angel sent from heaven and truly she helped me get through that period of time She would take the milk She would feed no I mean people would say to me if you give her a bottle so early on she will She'll not latch anymore and she'll prefer that to breast and you'll have ruined your breastfeeding experience.

People told me this is gonna affect your supply because not having her with you at night and pumping is gonna change your supply. Guess what? I had perfect latch with Noemi. She would have kept breastfeeding still to this day. I was ready to wean. I never had a single supply issue, none of that. So many people told me that what I was doing

by pumping overnight was wrong. And even I started going really, really early on, very long stretches because I mean, I was waking up every three hours and I was just really tired, like as we all are, but I was just really tired. And I thought, you know what? I'm just gonna let my boobs wake me up.

And so there were nights, very like in the first couple of weeks where like sometimes I'd sleep six hours and then I'd wake up in agony and I have to pump, but I just stopped doing that. My milk, my milk supply didn't change at all. And I started to be able to go through the night like really, really well, like, and I always had enough milk for Noemi and it was great. And that just really supported us because back in the day, we mothers were not the ones doing everything all the time. Yeah, we were in villages. Other women would take your baby so that you can recuperate from birth. They would breastfeed your baby because there was no formula.

Right. We would all chip in. Yeah. And I'm sorry. But if like if I'm living with another woman and she's just given birth, I'm saying to her, give me the baby tonight. I'll take care of the baby. You rest. Doesn't make you a bad mom and it's not going to mess up your baby. It's actually going to be really good for you because I knew like I would. Yeah. So there you go. Like so much of that advice was around the pumping stuff. I got told you shouldn't be pumping this early on. You shouldn't be giving it like all this stuff. I got told, you shouldn't be pumping this early on.

You shouldn't be giving it like all this stuff. My baby breastfed for as long as I wanted to breastfeed her, no supply issues whatsoever. And she is so securely attached that I'm so glad I did that. But I know that's controversial. But I'm glad you shared that as well. Cause I feel like there's gonna be women listening

who are like, let's be honest. Like I was in this position, motherhood can feel really scary and that might be one of the biggest things that scares them. So just even hearing that there are options and the support available can be such a like relief. I remember the first time I heard about night nurses, I was like, oh my God, like there's other ways of doing this

that gets to feel really good. We actually were going to do a night nurse and I'd gone through the process and everything and then actually ended up enjoying the night feeds, which I didn't expect. I really, really didn't expect to do that. But we did get a nanny from eight weeks, which we'll go on to childcare in a minute.

But the co-sleeping thing didn't work for us either. Like we, I've tried it, Leo is so wiggly, none of us sleep, we're all grumpy, but also Leo's grumpy. Like my child is grumpy if he slept in bed with us. Like we just don't sleep well together. And that's just our reality. Like, you know, great if it isn't,

but for me that advice didn't work at all. I think on that, another one that is, let's say early days actually, one piece of advice that I didn't follow was not seeing people for the first 40 days. So there's this big thing now about, I don't know where it originates from. Can you remember where it originates from?

It's an Asian, I'm not sure fully, but yeah, it's an Asian tradition. It's the first 40 days. I don't know if originated in China. Yeah. Although bringing this up, someone comes to your house for those 40 days and cooks for you, binds you, like does all the things. So they're getting supported.

But anyway, the whole principle is that you don't see anyone for the first 40 days. You're just in your bubble. You bond with your baby. You don't leave the house. Like you're just in your bubble, you bond with your baby, you don't leave the house, like you're just in that bubble, that honestly would have tipped me over the edge. Like if I did that, I would have lost my tiny mind.

Like there is no way I could have sat in the house for 40 days with me and my newborn baby, and my husband and not seeing anyone. Like seeing people really made sure that I didn't spiral or tip, or just feel like I was literally losing my mind. So I was actually really grateful to see people. I saw people really early on. Yeah, I remember that for you. You guys came around. Yeah, I remember.

Breakfast, you like, are you sure? And I was like, yeah, yeah, please come round. I was the opposite. I didn't want to see people. Really? No. So I really liked the, I mean, the first 40 days, I loved it. And also it was really hot here. So I had no, I mean the end of May and it was like a hundred degrees outside every day. So I wasn't really going out. Yeah. But I didn't, I felt really, the only way to describe it was like energetically fragile. And I think that a part of that is just what happened in birth, but I felt really energetically fragile that I didn't want to be in around anyone. Yeah.

And I was very anxious and I didn't want Noemi around and I didn't want to deal with people trying to hold her because I didn't want anyone to hold Noemi. For the first 40 days, the only people that held Noemi was me, Stephen and her night nurse. Really? I didn't know that. Not a single person held her and I said no to every single person. And I'd seen three people in that time that came to the house, but they only came for an hour.

And they came once and I didn't let anybody hold the baby. Oh my gosh. And that worked for me. That worked for me. I wouldn't let anyone, not even near, like they just weren't. Like, yeah, and they would ask and I just didn't even feel bad saying no. I was like, no, no one holds a baby.

That's so interesting to me. So I was like, yeah, pass them around. Have a cuddle guys. Even Steven would have to fight to hold her. Really? Yeah. No, I just had her attach to me like until our night nurse arrived, which by the way, it might be, we might be saying it wrong, it might be a baby nurse, until they arrived at 10, no one, Stephen would be like, can I please hold on? I mean, I'm like, okay, just for a little bit,

like just had her attached to me 24 seven. Oh my God, I love that, that is hilarious. He's asking for cuddles. Flipping off that, something that's maybe a bit controversial, which I actually did do, but I wish I'd ignored our reflection was, I was so present with my newborn baby.

This is probably so controversial. I wish I'd watched more TV. Honestly, I would make sure I was staring at him, holding him, having him near, and it made it really hard work. And the, do you know the best part? The black and white toys, guys, do not buy a single fucking black and white toy.

It's the biggest con going. They don't need black and white toys. They don't need black and white toys. I'd be dangling these fucking toys in front of it. You probably wouldn't even see that far at this point. I'm dangling this fucking toy and I'm like, like this is tragic for all of us. I honestly just wish I wish I'd put him in the bouncer and had a shower.

I wish I'd watched a bit more TV. Like what, I was overly present. I'm sorry. So wait, when he was like a newborn, you didn't watch TV? I mean, occasionally if I was like holding him, we'd put something on in the background, but like I could have been running them box sets, you know? Like I really could have been

piling through some stuff. I didn't, I didn't pile through. Maybe watch like an hour or two a day, which given you're in the house most of the day, it was not a lot. Wow, that's where we differ. Yeah. But I watched so much TV.

I wish you told me this. I just lay on the sofa with Noemi on my chest, watching TV. That's the dream. And she just slept all day long on me. And that was a one-off opportunity because you now know when you have another child. That's not gonna happen.

You ain't gonna be lying on the couch with the thing. That's all I did. I miss that golden era. But I did do the black and white toys and maybe some pediatrician's gonna be like, you're spreading misinformation, but I feel like it did nothing. That was, do you know, so like when, when we started doing schedules at six

weeks, there was these wake windows and I can't remember if it was a 60 minute or 90 minute wake window. I didn't watch TV in that time. Like when she was a newborn, like the first 40 days, I would say I was watching a lot of TV. Shits Creek was my vice. But when we started getting on a schedule, if she was awake for those 60 to 90 minutes, I would sit and play with her for 60 to 90 minutes. She couldn't do anything.

And I'm with the black and white toys and I'm doing the tummy time and all this stuff. It was so not neat. Like, why was I doing that? I could have been chilling. I could have been cooking it. And then I was like, oh, I'll go get it done while she's napping.

Wait, why didn't you just put her in a bouncer and meal prep? Absolutely psychopaths. I don't get it. Yeah. And then I'd also come in and Jake would come in the room and he'd be like, you okay, hun? I'd be like,

my fucking black and white toy is rocking. Just like, this isn't fun. This is not fun. You know? It's like, why? Why didn't I just prep a meal? Why didn't I, like, even just read a book with him? I don't know. It's just, why, why didn't I just prep a meal? Why didn't I, like, even just read, read a book with him. I don't know.

It's just, honestly, that I wish I, I wish I hadn't followed the advice on. No, literally I told myself the story that if I wasn't that 60 minute wake window, if I was not doting on her, every move she'd feel ignored. And she's like, I'm un-doled. Okay, I'll give you one worse. Someone once told me if I didn't eye gaze with them

whilst they're breastfed, he'd have behavioral issues. No, I kid you not. Someone mentioned this in a fleeting comment when I wasn't even pregnant prior to babies and it permeated my brain. And I, like a psychopath, would be staring, eye gazing as we rest bed, not wanting to give him any behavioral issues. The whole time?

Babe, the whole time. If he was looking, if he had his eyes closed, I would look away. But if he had his eyes open, I was gazing back. I am dead. Psychopath. Oh my God, I just read my Kindle. I was, she just wanted to breastfeed 24 seven honestly, and I just read my Kindle.

I mean, who told you? Babe, honestly, I can't, I can't. Let's talk about that schedule. I feel like that's another one. Where are you on the schedules? Okay, so I wish I'd done the schedule earlier. Yeah. Cause I'll be honest, I didn't read a single parenting book.

I didn't, maybe I sound like terrible mom. I didn't read any of that stuff. Me neither. I just thought, you know what, when she comes, I'll know what to do. And I was honestly just, my business was requiring a lot of me when I was pregnant that I didn't have a lot of extra time.

Sorry, I'm just laughing at the very hopeful. When she comes, I'll know what to do. I'll figure it. How hard can it be? But then when she so OK, so Noemi was they call them velcro babies on Instagram, like genuinely, I mean, it was probably because I just held her. I couldn't put her down. So like taking a shower was impossible. Like I could she would only sleep on me.

Like I couldn't put her down in the in the bound set and go in the shower. Well, let's say she would like not cry, but she would like wine, right? I don't, was it normal to let them wine? I don't know. But like the minute she made a peep, I would hop out the shower and pick her up. I don't know. So she would do these little wines and I would just say, Stephen, I can't show that I'm crying. And I don't actually think she was crying. But so anyway, like I couldn't do anything.

Yeah. And she would just sleep like on me like, like honestly, she would sleep and feed for the whole month. First month, that's all she did. And I was like, it got to six weeks and I thought, oh, God, I need to figure out how to shower because Steven went back to work after four weeks. Like, I need to figure this out because this is a nightmare. I can't wash my hair like I can't shower like I'm just sitting here till like noon hoping she'll fall asleep.

I can put her in the crib for five minutes jump in the shower like I didn't have a I didn't I was like, okay, I'm going to try the schedule thing. So I put on schedule and then people would say to me most people don't be so rigid with rigid with the schedule because I'd be like, oh, not times in 10 minutes. And I remember we had family visiting and it was a wake window and they took Noemi out with Stephen in the stroller and she fell asleep in the stroller and threw the whole schedule out.

And I remember getting really upset over it, not at them, but like honestly with Stephen being like, that was the schedule and he was like, well, should we not just ease up a little bit? Like I want to take her on a stroller walk. To me, I actually was happier following a schedule, I'm gonna be honest about that, because I knew exactly what my days looked like

with a schedule. I would know this is my time to shower, this is my time to work out, this is my time to do other stuff, and when she's awake, I'm playing with her, I'm with her. And when that schedule was mixed up, if she just randomly slept, she would then be really cranky and the only person she'd want is me.

And that would really have a knock on effect in my day. If she's then really upset and overtired and won't sleep, that was just, it's just a lot. And then you feel emotionally fragile as well because your baby's upset and then you're getting upset. Like it's just a vicious cycle. And there's a house full of family. And then I'm in the other room trying to sue them

because she's overtired. Like that just didn't work for me. And so I remembered like saying to Steven, do you know what, maybe like the advice is actually don't be so rigid for me. And I'm the one that's taking care of her all the time. For me, the schedule does work because then it gives me predictability into my day.

And we're six weeks into having a newborn baby. I feel like my whole life's up in shambles of like, what's my day look like? That was really powerful for me. And so I'm happy that it was, that was rigid. And you know, I would say to certain people, if you're going to come over at this window and I have one friend that's always late. And I ended up saying to her, she was an hour late. And I said to her, I'm sorry, but you've missed the window.

Like this isn't gonna work. And I don't feel bad for that. Yeah, no, you can't. I love that you actually gave the example there as well of just being like, you're in the bedroom, soothing the baby and you've got a house full of family because that is so fucking relatable, where it doesn't matter how many people you've got around

with you in certain situations, you're just mom and like no one's gonna replace mom. But that's why it's important to support what the mom needs. I'm with you, schedules, big. I feel like I spent a lot of the early days in survival mode without realizing it, particularly breastfeeding. I felt like I didn't know when he'd need to feed.

And so I just constantly felt on edge. Like I remember having this thing where I felt like I couldn't even do like a 20 minute workout because I felt like as soon as I got on the mat he'd need to feed and it just left me feeling like, even when I talk about now like tense, like I felt so on edge and actually getting more of a schedule in place.

Like you said, like I knew more of the rhythms and more of the flow and what was gonna happen when and it's really funny because I used to think, and I'll be completely honest, I used to not judge, but I used to find it like a bit rigid when parents had these rigid schedules. I judged. When people were like, oh, sorry, we can't do lunch then

because of da, da, da and da, da. I was like, guys, lighten the fuck up, come on. I've gotta go pump. I'm like, why can't you wait 10 minutes? Yeah. And now I'm like, oh, I get it. Yeah, Yeah. And now I'm like, oh, I get it. Yeah, and now I'm like, oh my God, I get it. I truly, truly get it because, like you said,

it throws everything off, then the baby's upset. And yeah, and I also think related to that, you guys, I mean, you guys saved me and Jake because you brought up the magical Kara baby training. I mean, God bless Kara. I feel like she's a controversial character. People who love her, I hate that. I think she's an angel sent from the heavens.

Kara babies changed my life. Like we weren't sleeping and we were hanging on by a threat. And like sleep deprivation is a form of torture. Can we just remember that? That's how they fucking torture people. I remember being in the hospital actually, hallucinating because I hadn't slept so much. Like it was, it's awful.

And you introduced us to the, I would call it like gentle sleep training. Very gentle. And I also do just wanna say, like being completely honest, you two were really struggling. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Me and Steven, I remember we seen you, I think it was that morning.

Yeah. And I think you were really close to tears. I could see it in your face. Yeah. And the two of you, you could see it on the two, like, oh, they are struggling right now. And me and Steven came home and we were like, I think we should tell them we did take our babies,

like take it, I'll leave it. It worked for us. I know it's like controversial in our friendship group. But we'd said to you, can you please come round? So we can tell you our experience with it. Because if you're both not on the same page, it can cause a rift between the two of you. And we literally asked you to come round that day.

Yeah, we had a meeting. I was like, please come round, make you some coffee, but I need you both to sit and I'm gonna tell you all this then you can go and get the course. But let us tell you what it could do to your relationship if you're not on the same page. But I swear by it. Honestly, you guys saved us.

And I think also like, I do wanna be honest that I definitely felt if I found it hard because I did have a lot of friends who were like anti sleep training. And also my Instagram algorithm was serving me similar things to you mentioned at the beginning with the the night nurse, like these, I still remember this poster. It's like, I wake in the night and you are not there. And I feel so lonely and I'm so scared like all this just like bullshit. It was like written from the baby's perspective.

And so I was nervous around this whole thing and honestly, it was a lifesaver for us. And not only just for me and Jake, Leo was sleeping and he's so much happier to the point now where I can see in him, when we go off the schedule or he has a bad night or like whatever it is and he hasn't slept, I can tell he's not as happy.

He's grumpy, he struggles, he has more tantrums. Like it just doesn't serve us as a family if we're not sleeping or doing that. And this might ruffle a lot of feathers, but I remember a lot of people saying to me from, you know, Noemi being maybe, let's say nine months. Yeah. She's such a happy baby.

She's so advanced. I mean, whatever advanced means like, who knows what, like baby's gonna do their own thing. And my response would be she sleeps. Oh my God. I didn't think that was controversial. I could not agree with you more. She is, people have always said that to me.

She's such a happy baby. Yeah. And she has slept. Yeah.'s such a happy baby. Yeah. And she has slept. Yeah. We've had a schedule. Yeah. I mean, I've always made sure she gets her naps in. Yeah.

And we had her sleeping 12 hours a night from, I think it was about six months. Yeah. We had, we, you know, we didn't have to do a big cry it out or any like scary things like that. No. I wasn't a big believer in that, but we had us sleeping through the night. And we would be around, you know, some babies that were hadn't slept and were just like just, you know, you know, go to like mom and baby groups. And like you see other babies that haven't and then moms are like, oh, he hasn't been sleeping or whatever. And the babies

are exhausted and the parents are exhausted. And. And people would always say Noemi's happy and I would say, yeah, because she's sleeping. I 1000% agree with that. Like from personal experience, I... Yeah, that's not controversial to me. And it's not to say that every baby needs sleep train to sleep. It's just for us. I mean, and maybe Noemi was happy ever

because we were happy and well rested. I don't know. But I would just notice when she was really having enough naps during the day, when she was getting enough sleep at night, she was so energetic in her wake windows and just happy. And she was like coming on really fast and advancing really fast. And yeah, it just felt really good to us

to figure that sleep thing out for all of us. And for me and Stephen too, because I swear we would be so in love one day, we would have a sleepless night and wake up and I'm like, why are you breathing like that? Like we would just be at each other's throats and we'd both have to stop midway through the day and be like, I'm so sorry. I love you. This is sleep deprivation. Like I don't know why I'm being rude to you right now. This is sleep deprivation and that's not good for your baby either. So just says what it is. And I also want to name like, yeah, this can sound like a really privileged conversation that we're having

the night nurses, the night, all that stuff. I get it. And I'm just going to be really honest about our whole experience because I also think it's pretty shitty when people pretend they don't have help and they're doing it all on their own. And I'm like, I'm not going to pretend that because I did have help from a very, from Noemi's very early age. And I wanna be really honest about that because I absolutely do not want any mom comparing themselves to me,

thinking that I'm maybe handling it better or whatever. Absolutely not. I had help. And if anything, that is something that's always made me feel worse. Like not knowing that someone's actually having help but they're making out that they don't and then I'm comparing myself thinking like,

well, they're doing it all, why can't I do it all? And I do agree with you, I think it is, I think it is, there are elements of privilege in here, definitely acknowledging that. And just on a slight balance to that as well, we both live as expats, which I do think is something worth bringing up because again, I've got a lot of expat moms

in my community that I've spoken to, and it is just different. Now that's not to say if you live at home, you automatically have childcare. Again, I have friends who have lost their parents and things like this, they don't necessarily have childcare around them, but we don't have family here

where I can just call up my mom and be like, hey mom, I'm really struggling today. Could you come around and watch the baby for half an hour? I don't have, oh, hi, my sister, can we go on a date night? Can you look after the baby for the evening whilst we do that? So I do also just think that's worth bringing up as well where there's an extra factor here

of not actually having support around you naturally. So having to really call in that extra team support a little bit more. No, I actually think that's really important to name that because yeah, there's like nobody. No. Like it's just out here solo. So yeah, I love that.

You've got other friends who are also. They're in the thick of it. Also completely in the thick of it. I just wanna say really quickly, looking back to the sleep training thing about the happy baby, the other thing that I noticed is Leo would wake up really happy in the mornings.

He wouldn't wake up screaming. And also if he woke up in the night, he'd be really content. And I just noticed a level of peacefulness in him that I just want to note. Cause I do think sometimes the internet makes you think that your baby's just screaming and you're ignoring a screaming baby.

And actually like I noticed he would wake up and be feel really safe and then go back to sleep. So just wanna throw that out there. Just on that, I remember when we were doing the training with Noemi and she woke up in during the night, one of the nights and I'd be so used to rushing to her side And she woke up, she opened her eyes and she kind of just went, and then adjusted positions and went back to sleep. And I remember just feeling so happy that she had like had that skill that she could put herself back to sleep. I'm like, that was such a, like a proud moment of like, oh,

I'm really happy that she can do that and feel safe in her bed to like, just open her eyes, close her eyes again. I love that. Do you know, it just does remind me though, you know you were saying earlier about when she'd like peep when you were showering? I remember having an argument with my husband's grandmother. I'm not proud of that. She's an older lady.

I shouldn't have had an argument with my husband's grandmother. But we were at dinner and Leo was in the bassinet, like the lie down warm. and he made a peep and me and Jake rushed him, rushed, lept, lept out of our chairs, couldn't be quicker. I did not let that baby peep without leaping to his side. So he peeped and she said to me,

you know you don't have to get up every time he makes a noise. And I was so fucking offended. I was like, what kind of cruel parenting does your grandmother expect me to do? Like, I can't believe, this is so old fashioned. The judgment, I look back now and I'm like, Alex, like maybe you should have listened to her.

Like the woman had multiple babies, she was a nurse. Like maybe she actually knew. And that is worth noting, there's a difference between a peep and a cry, which I did not understand as a new mom. Like now I know the difference between you're gargling and you're crying. But at the time, yeah, I fell out with an older lady.

No, I'm laughing because that was me. Noemi couldn't so much as go without me, leaping, leaping. I mean- Do you need something? Can I get you something? You're okay darling. Oh my God. I went, but now like, do you know what? We're probably going to be those grandmas when our kids that like, we will probably be like, you know,

you don't need to, and they'll be like, oh my God, so offended. We'll send them this podcast. We will, but then you, you just, you just learn. Yeah. But I never, with hindsight now, great. But at the time I just didn't even, I just thought, Oh God, she needs me. She needs me. Oh my no, this is hilarious. So

I wouldn't even like want her to be like she would sometimes I would like get her to sleep and me and Steven would plan to sit and have dinner together. Yeah. And she'd make one peep, right? I'd have her in the like snuggle me thing or a baby born bouncer. She'd make one peep, I would leap up and we'd put the bouncer on the kitchen table. We did this, we did this. While we eat dinner, just so that there was,

if there was any peeps I could just immediately touch her. I'm laughing but I'm also like, oh yeah, flashbacks. Yeah, we had dinner as a three. With the bouncer on the kitchen table. On the kitchen table. Your guy's bouncer, we borrowed your bouncer. Yeah, you did. So we could do that exact thing.

Wild. And all she was doing was making a noise in her sleep. Literally, it's literally the equivalent of us just like moving it. Yeah, can you imagine if someone leapt to you every, is that pretty freaking annoying? Probably woke them up more half the time. Oh my God, I'm dead. What else was that? Raw milk.

Oh yeah. Listen, I'm probably going to get canceled for this one, but I give my toddler raw milk and I think it's great for her and she tolerates it really, really well. I give my toddler raw milk as well. So I'll go down with you, babe. I've done the research and the research that I've looked at checks out. I've never had a single issue. She is amazing. She's healthy AF. And I'm going to keep doing it. But can I just say maybe to uncancel you, is the scientific research about how much more nutrients there are in it,

how much more digestible it is, because it's got a certain enzyme in it, that makes it easier. Yes, it digests so much easier. It's like, it's, it has so many more vitamins in that are more bioavailable. Like there's just so much research on it. And I went down so many rabbit holes. I get raw, organic, pasture raised A2 milk.

And I'm very specific about where I get it from. And I'm going to keep doing it. And as a whole family, we, I give her raw milk. We have raw cream in the house. We do raw cheese and we absolutely love it. Yeah. Well, same. And I do have a story on this. What?

So Leo got like a mystery illness at one point, which turned out, I'll ruin the ending. It was hand, foot and mouth. But the way it originally showed up was he had a fever, he was crying, and you know what it's like when they're a baby? Like, they can't tell you what's wrong, but you can tell there's something wrong.

Anyway, his fever got really high, it was like 104. So we go into the hospital, go to the emergency room. Well, I have taught myself in a loop on the way to the hospital, and I have convinced myself that I have poisoned my child with raw dairy, and this is why my child is mysteriously ill. It must be the raw dairy and I must confess my sins immediately to the doctor so that they know what's wrong with him so they can diagnose the raw whatever he's got from

the raw dairy and we can get him the help he needs. You never told me this! I've probably not told you this. Babe, it's so bad. So we get to the emergency room. They tend to, I don't know if it's the same in the UK, but they tend to hear, like, see you very fast if it's to do with a baby. So they see you super fast.

And we're like, they're like, yeah, his temperature's really high. And I'm like, I think I know what it is. And she's like, okay. And she's like, and I was like, I gave him raw dairy. And I literally bleat out my confession. And I was like, I gave him raw dairy. I literally bleat out my confession. And I'm like, I thought it was okay.

Like ranting, ranting like a crazy woman. The doctor laughs at me. She laughs and goes, I don't think it's the raw dairy. The doctor herself, and obviously this is not all doctor's opinions, so I can't make a sweeping generalization, but she was like, it's okay to give him raw dairy. This isn't from the raw dairy. Oh my God.

Yes, I was literally like, they're gonna call child protective services on me because I've poisoned my child with raw dairy. I went, I went, was down all the rabbit holes in the car and yeah, no, it turns out I just had a handful of mouth. Well, I'm laughing though, but the amount of things that I like went down the rabbit hole with is ridiculous.

Like, okay, I can think of two ridiculous things that happened, right? So one time I'm on FaceTime with my friend and Noemi was maybe three weeks old and I was just doing a quick FaceTime. I mean, I shouldn't have really been FaceTiming. I was exhausted. I was very hormonal. Like, I just was like, you know what? Yeah, I'll

be a good friend. Like I'll have this call. Right. Anyway, no, I mean, um, needs a diaper change midway through. So I just take the phone in with me and I open her diaper and there was just like this weird looking black stuff in her diaper. Right? On the call on FaceTime, I just go, oh my God. And I start hysterically crying. My friend Sarah's like, what's wrong? What's wrong? Are you okay? Are you okay? And I say, Sarah, I'm going to have to call you back. Oh my God. So I hang up and I call the doctor immediately sobbing. I've just opened Noemi's diaper and something's really wrong. And I, and I don't, I'm like hysterical. And the doctor was okay, tell me what it is. And I said, there's a little black mark.

And she said, it's a pump. She just pumped. And the diaper. That's it. That's it for an American toot. Just basically a skid mark. Yes. And I was like, but it's black. Do you want a picture of it? And they were like, no, that's normal. And I had to call my friend back and be like,

just false alarm. And she doesn't have kids. And was like, oh, okay. Do you react like that to everything? I'm like, yes. Oh my God, that is amazing. Isn't that ridiculous? If it helps, I did one with a poo as well though,

where it looked a bit like chalky. Well, I Googled it and Leo was in liver failure. There's like no, there's no like mild, mild. That's ridiculous. It's like not, not to 100. I think I sent that actually to the mum's group, that photo of his, of his poopy diaper being like, does this look chalky to you guys?

Cause in my head, he now was in liver failure. It's so bad. One time, Alexi was coming around to my house for coffee one morning and she opened the door and I'm in tears. And I was like, thank God you're here. I just need your advice. She's like, oh my God, what's wrong? Like, she has a rash, she has a rash.

So she comes in Naomi's room, I'm taking Naomi's clothes. I'm like, I just don't know what it is. And obviously Alexi had a four under four at that time, she was like, oh yeah, it's just a baby rash. And I was like, but is she okay? Do I need to take her to the hospital? She's like, she'll be fine. Does she have a temperature?

No, does she have any symptoms? No, then she's fine. Okay, can I defend you on this one though? Cause we grew up in the UK at the time where I remember constantly seeing on the TV, the meningitis rash. Oh, the roller glass over it. Roller glass. Trust me, babe, I've been rolling glasses.

Same, but right, apparently that's not a thing over here. They don't roll glasses. So we recently had another one where I was like, oh my God, is it a meningitis? Rolled the glass, it didn't disappear. I was like, get him to the doctors. And the doctor was like, oh my God, is it a- Roller glass. Roll the glass, it didn't disappear. I was like, get him to the doctors. And the doctor was like, the roller glass thing isn't a thing, guys. So apparently it's not a thing over here.

But I think this is why we're traumatized by raptors. I just would cry. I mean, I was horrible, but I would cry over everything. The slightest scare and I'm in floods of tears. Steven, Steven come downstairs. Babe, I thought we were gonna have to do a part two to this. I felt there's so many more, but I'm just scared and I'm in floods of tears. Stephen, Stephen come downstairs. Babe, I feel like we're gonna have to do a part two to this. I felt there's so many more, but I'm like. I'm so glad that you brought this topic up though,

because just looking back, I just feel so much compassion for myself, but so much confidence about when I choose to do it again. Yeah, and I also hope that like a new mom can listen to this. Yeah, and realize that A, it's normal to feel completely psycho about things, but maybe she can also learn from some of our mistakes and just like relax a little bit, as much as is possible as a newborn.

Oh my God. Watch this episode. Thank you for being on babe. This is amazing. Wait, wait, wait, before you go, I would love to send you my seven figure CEO operating system, completely free as a gift. All you've got to do is leave us a review on this podcast because it really supports the growth of this show.

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