the bossbabe podcast - 66. Owning Your Reality, Understanding Your Worth + Using ‘Embodiment’ To Align With Your Purpose with Heather Pennell

Episode Date: December 18, 2019

We are joined by Natalie Ellis, CEO of BossBabe, and Heather Pennell, Co-Founder of Rising Woman and a Conscious Relationship Educator and Facilitator as we explore the deep effects of trauma and how you can use your experiences to become more compassionate and self-aware.  True happiness lies within the inner work that we must do as individuals. In becoming ‘trauma informed’ about your past experiences, you empower yourself by having a better understanding of how you’re feeling and what you’re doing which helps you develop greater self-compassion and self-awareness.  Heather provides actionable tips on how you can take responsibility for your reality in order to align with your inner self and purpose. When you are clear on who you are, it will lead you to the right people, places, and opportunities in both life and business.  If you’re ready to take ownership of your experiences in life, then this is the episode for you!  This episode is sponsored by The 90 Day Planner by BossBabe: bossbabe.com/goals This episode is sponsored by the Insta Growth Accelerator. A 12-week accelerator designed to show you how to grow and monetize your Instagram account: www.instagrowthaccelerator.com Discover how to grow your audience on Instagram by 10,000 ideal clients in 30 days: bossbabe.com/growthatinsta Join our exclusive membership for female entrepreneurs to connect, build, and grow: https://bossbabe.com/connectbuildgrow

Everybody is inherently worthy and no amount of money is going to change that. Sometimes what we're doing and how we're feeling is stemming from trauma. What's driving that intense energy to make money underneath it is actually a feeling of I'm not enough. Welcome to the Boss Babe podcast, a place where we share with you the real behind the scenes of building successful businesses, achieving peak performance and learning how to balance it all. I'm Natalie Ellis, co-founder and CEO of Boss Babe and your host for this week's episode. So happy holidays. I hope you're all starting to feel a bit festive. You're getting ready to wind down and take some time off. I'm so excited because

my birthday next week, I'm going to be 28. I really, really can't wait. I've got so many fun things planned. We're going to do a girl's night in my place and we're working on some inner child stuff. Stephen and I, we've been doing a lot of personal development work lately and just really trying to tap into our inner child. And so I decided for my birthday, I'm going to have an inner child party. And so the girls are going to come over. We're just going to do old school games and just be really cozy. It's going to be amazing. I would also love to ask a little favor of all of you. So if you haven't reviewed our podcast yet, it would mean the absolute world to us if you would if you review it and you leave your instagram handle on there we'll give you a shout out on

our instagram to over 1.9 million women and also if you screenshot it and send it to podcast at bosswave.com we'll send you a little freebie gift as well so would love love love reviews for that towards the end of the year and just helping us get the podcast out there to more women because it's such a game changer I mean over the holidays as well might be a great time to just go back and binge listen to any podcast that you've missed because we've been releasing two a week and in the summer actually we're doing three weeks so there's probably loads that you haven't even caught up on yet so while you're having a nice bath or maybe road tripping to see your family it's probably a great time just to stock up on all the podcasts. Okay so this episode I know you are going to just

love it. It's going to feel like you're cozied up on the sofa with a matcha latte in hand and just discussing every single thing your soul wants to know the answer to. So from releasing childhood trauma to dealing with conflict as business partners and to incorporating personal growth into your everyday routine we covered it all i'm interviewing heather pinnell co-founder of rising woman rising woman offers resources guiding you to the root of your relational issues while encouraging you to find an authentic pathway of deep healing with an emphasis on shadow work family systems, esoteric wisdom and a hint of astrology, you'll find everything you need to support your journey of conscious living on

their platform. And if you're listening to this like I don't even know what any of that is, we're going to cover it all so don't worry. With over a million followers on social media alone, Rising Woman feels like a breath of fresh air when it comes to online content and the messages that they're sharing are just so powerful. Like I said, I know you're gonna love this episode and I really, really can't wait to hear your feedback. So as always, take a screenshot, share your biggest takeaway, tag me at IamNatalie at bosswave.inc so we can share you and also it's so good for us to know what really stood out to you. So okay, I'm so excited because this episode is sponsored by our very own product in fact our first ever physical product the 90-day planner so our 90-day planner is the daily resource

for ambitious women we know you've got massive goals and we are here to help you achieve them by breaking them down into a 90-day sprint and then a step-by-step roadmap so you'll wake up every single day knowing what to work on and every day we'll have you work through very specific easy tools that we've been doing for years and has helped us win. Not only is the planner an amazing resource but it's super cute, it's light, it's going to fit in your handbag, we made sure of that and it's also ring bound so it's going to be really easy to write on whether you're in the back of the car or on an airplane it's super convenient and don't worry if you don't have full clarity yet on your goals because with the planner you'll get crystal

clear on your top goals for the next 90 days using exercises that we've put in there so that's both professional and personal goals the process that you'll actually be working through in your planner is completely proven it's something danielle and i have been doing ourselves for years and we've been testing out this exact planner for a year now as well as getting our clients and employees to work on this exact thing. So if you're a client of ours you'll know that we've got you working through a 90-day sprint. This is an even easier way to do it so it's going to help you get amazing results, it's going to help you get crystal clear, it's a product that we are so incredibly proud of and is an absolute must-have. So go to bossbabe.com forward slash goals to get yours and it's a product that we are so incredibly proud of and is an absolute must-have so go to bossbabe.com

forward slash goals to get yours and it's holiday season so I really recommend buying an extra copy writing an amazing motivational note to your best friend telling her you believe in her and sending her a copy too because the best thing that we can do as friends is support our other friends in achieving their massive goals so let me know when you've got yours, tag us. I want to see how you're using it. And I also want to see the amazing results you get from it. A boss babe is unapologetically ambitious and paves the way for herself and other women to rise, keep going and fighting on. She is on a mission to be her best self in all areas. It's just believing in yourself, confidently stepping outside her comfort zone to create her own vision of success. Welcome Heather to the Boss Bay podcast. Thank you. Happy to be here.

I'm so excited to have you on here and I know we're going to get deep on so many different things. So I would just love to dive in and start with how you went from a struggling photographer to being a facilitator, writer and educator, which is what you're doing now. So I would just love to dive in and start with how you went from a struggling photographer to being a facilitator, writer, and educator, which is what you're doing now. Yeah, absolutely. So the interesting thing about that transition is that in many ways, my photography practice actually was informing what I do now all the way along. So when I was working as a photographer, I realized that my main source of inspiration

was people. And I'd always been really curious about why people do what they do, why they feel what they feel, you know, really interested in psychology. And I found my niche by networking with a group of what I would call conscious female entrepreneurs, kind of the type of people that, you know, follow your podcast and are probably listening in. And I realized that I wanted to work with those type of women. And I started creating what I called transformational portrait sessions. So I would take women on a journey of self-discovery and essentially getting to a place where they felt a deeper layer of self-acceptance and comfort in front of the lens. And a lot of that work that I was doing was really coming from this other path of mine where I was going deep into

self-work. I was training in a bunch of different programs, working with different mentors to really understand what is driving our pain and how can we work with that pain to empower ourselves. So as I was doing that work, I realized that as amazing as photography was, it was really just a small piece of what I wanted to offer the world. And so through my work in the self-development field, I ended up meeting with my business partner, Shalina, and we started collaborating. Our community called us into doing women's work. We were hosting women's circles and diving deep with women one-on-one, sharing with them everything that we had done in our own lives to get to where we are today. And eventually we decided to collaborate on a project. She had created this amazing project called Rising Woman,

invited me into it. And I knew right away that that was the exact thing that I was here to do all along. And slowly but surely, I transitioned out of doing one-on-one portrait sessions into Rising Woman and a lot of writing. We have an online program. And that's really my primary focus today. Of course, I still weave my art into our brand and everything we do. So while not all of the photographs on Instagram are taken by me, some of them are, and we are going to be creating more

art and education sort of moving together in Rising Woman. So that's where I'll be able to bring that piece of it back in. But the cool thing is that I think as many people go through their journey as far as figuring out where their career is meant to take them, sometimes we don't know in the moment that what we're doing is actually going to benefit our future career. And I see so clearly now how photography really, really gave me a lot of tools, a lot of wisdom, and a lot of support to do what I do now in a variety of ways. I love that. And that reminds me of my business partner, Danielle, because she came and joined me at Boss Babe and instantly the two of us just knew we were meant to do it together. And she was a chiropractor before and the things that she's been able to bring

from chiropractic, which sounds crazy, but into Boss Babe has been amazing. And a lot of the things that she's helped us implement, we've been able to come at it from a completely different standpoint. So I love that. And I think there's a lot to be said about whatever you're in, just doing the best job that you possibly can, because you just don't know where it's going to lead and what you can bring from it. So one thing I want to chat about, so you're a trauma-informed facilitator and you do a lot of trauma work. For for anyone listening can you explain what that means so a big piece of diving into what I was saying before about why people do what they do and why they feel what they feel is understanding that essentially at the root of all of our behavioral

problems let's call them although they can just be learning opportunities I kind of like to see everything as a learning opportunity or a growth opportunity. There's typically trauma. And sometimes when people hear the word trauma, they think, oh my gosh, this must be something really severe. Something really terrible must have happened. But trauma can actually be really simple and small and actually not huge, but create a large effect on our physiology and on our body and on our nervous system. And some of these traumas occurred when we were pre-verbal. So when we were infants, while we were in the womb, there's also ancestral and epigenetic trauma. So things that our

ancestors and our family has passed down to us through our genes and through even just how we were raised, the beliefs that informed how our family system functioned. So there's a lot of traumas that can come from places where we don't even necessarily have a conscious memory of them. And some simple things that can occur is, for example, birth trauma. If you were born prematurely, if there was any sort of birth issue that occurred, that can be a trauma in the physiology. We have attachment trauma. So let's say, for example, you were having a really tough time as a kid, you were scared, there was a big emotion, and maybe mom and dad were really stressed and they weren't able to be there for you and hold that for you. That can be a trauma. And then of course, there are the things that we more typically

associate with trauma, which might be sexual abuse or traumatic car accident or something that had to do with maybe the war or moving from a war-torn place or physical violence, those things that of course can impact our nervous system as well. So being trauma-informed is essentially understanding that sometimes what we're doing and how we're feeling is stemming from trauma. It's not a choice necessarily that we're

making, but it's something that our physiology is doing. And by working with our nervous system, by working with trauma, by understanding this and going into the deeper layers, we can start to develop a sense of self-compassion, a sense of self-awareness and understanding where we're not so much in judgment of our reactions and our responses and our coping mechanisms, but we can see them with tenderness and with care. And as we start to do that, it creates an opportunity for a shift, for a new way of being to arise. But when we're suppressing and repressing and rejecting our coping mechanisms and the ways that we're dealing with life. This is why we do a lot of shadow work in Rising Woman. When we're repressing these

things, they actually have a lot more power over us because we're not actually taking the time to sit and be with it and look at it and nurture it. And so it just remains in the unconscious and in the nervous system, untended to, alive and active, even if we're trying to avoid it. So that's a little snippet of being trauma-informed. There's a lot that goes into that. And I've been studying these things for years and recently really diving more into the somatic realm of things, which is more into the nervous system and the physiology. But it really gives me a window into understanding people on a deeper level and understanding myself on a deeper level. And just, you know, being able to relate to myself and others with more compassion, more softness, more gentleness as we move through on this wild healing journey that is life.

Yeah, I love that you shared that. And it's so important. A few weeks ago, I actually went to a weekend workshop that was hosted by a couple of my friends, Alexi and Preston. And I didn't really know what it was going to be about, but it was very much about stepping into leadership and doing that kind of deep personal development work. And a lot of what we did was really retraining the nervous system to be able to hold more because as leaders, you're constantly getting things thrown at you and being able to look at what's there and work with it and train your nervous system. And also a lot of that somatic work and stuff that might not be that fun, but is super powerful. And so I totally get the importance of that.

And especially as leaders and people that are leading others and have to be even more self-aware, I think it's so powerful. So where would one start with kind of trauma work or somatic work, anything like that? Well, there's a lot of different ways and places to start. And I typically invite people to just go where they're called because in the beginning of my journey, I started with what I would call more new age practices. And after I developed a little bit more capacity to hold my own emotions, to hold myself, I then found myself drawn to working with more psychotherapeutic practices shadow work practices group facilitation work

and you know really going into the grittier stuff that I might not have had the capacity to be with before so as far as a starting point again it's really you know following what you're drawn to but also there's amazing resources out there even Even our program, Healing Relationships, is a great resource for people who are looking to start diving into this work. But really, it's also about having someone one-on-one with you. I think that's an imperative piece of all of this is that throughout my own healing journey, I've always been seeing a mentor, psychotherapist, or a body worker of some kind. Online work is amazing. And I absolutely love it. And I of course, I do this work. And I also feel like people need to really start leaning into community as well. So if people are not sure where to start, it'd be you know, look around you,

what are your friends doing? What are you called towards? And just dive in and see what inspires you. And I'm sure that that will lead you exactly where you need to go. Yeah, I love that. What do you mean by body worker? Let's take a quick pause to talk about my new favorite all-in-one platform Kajabi. You know I've been singing their praises lately because they have helped our business run so much smoother and with way less complexity which I love. Not to mention our team couldn't be happier because now everything is in one place. So it makes collecting data, creating pages, collecting payment, all the things so much simpler. One of our mottos at Boss Babe is simplify to amplify and Kajabi has really helped us do that this year. So of course I needed to share it here with you.

It's the perfect time of year to do a bit of spring cleaning in your business, you know? Get rid of the complexity and instead really focus on getting organized and making things as smooth as possible I definitely recommend Kajabi to all of my clients and students so if you're listening and haven't checked out Kajabi yet now is the perfect time to do so because they are offering Boss Babe listeners a 30-day free trial go to kajabi.com slash Boss Babe to claim your 30-day free trial. That's kajabi.com slash boss babe. So body work, I mean, that can be as simple as a massage

therapist, acupuncture, anything that involves really working with the body because we do store a lot of trauma and a lot of energy in our body. If you work with a somatic therapist, a lot of what they're going to be doing is actually tapping into the nervous system. And so that to me is also a form of body work. I also encourage people to take up simple practices like yoga even can be really good for moving energy in the body, dancing, anything life from a heady place without even recognizing it. We're often disassociating from the body. So when we feel an uncomfortable emotion or an uncomfortable sensation, our natural tendency is to move away from it, find some form of distraction, or we get caught up in certain addictions. So we could be addicted to food, to drugs, to TV, to sex, anything that takes us away from feeling the sensations in our body. So embodiment work, working with body workers

is a really great practice to start to become comfortable with the sensations in the body. And I really encourage people to do that. Yeah, I love that. And it's so true. I think a lot of people, because the mind is very present and predominant, you can be so in your mind

that you kind of neglect what's going on in your body and there's not that kind of same mind-body connection. How do you think people can maybe cultivate that mind-body connection more just in a daily practice, something they could do now? So one of the most simple things is scanning the body. So even if you're not having a challenging emotion come up in that moment, you can still just scan your body and notice what am I feeling right now? What sensations are occurring? Is there a spot in my body that's holding more tension? Is there a spot that feels more light and more easeful? And this is also a really great practice to do when there is a big emotion coming up so

that we can actually start to become more mindful and aware embodied in where does that sensation reside in my body and how does that actually feel so we might know what sadness feels on an intellectual level but do we know how sadness feels in our body and can we label that can we connect to that so let's say for example I'm feeling some sadness come up. I tune into my body. I close my eyes. I take some deep breaths. And I just become curious and notice, where am I feeling that in my body? And become friends with that sensation. Go deeper into that sensation. And also, as we're doing this, it's important as well to really find points in the body of relaxation where maybe sadness isn't existing, but maybe more of a sense of grace or ease is existing. So we can tap into the sadness, but also move towards that place

where there's a little bit more breath and a little bit more light. So we're kind of moving towards the challenge, but also moving towards ease. And this is a form of titration or pendulation where we're not overwhelming our body or our nervous system with intense emotion and energy, but dipping the toe into it and becoming comfortable with it over time. Because if we go too deep into something without support, sometimes that can kind of overwhelm and override our natural coping mechanisms and things that are in place to keep us balanced and safe. So it's important as we're becoming friends with these embodied sensations to also be really gentle in the process. We don't need to dive head on into it every single time, but to just slowly and gently become more connected to these sensations

and recognize that emotion is just energy in the body and emotion isn't going to hurt you or kill you. It's just energy and it can feel very uncomfortable. And sometimes it can be scary because we feel like we can get stuck there, which again is why it's so important to have that balance of having that place of ease, as well as working with people that can support you to navigate these things if you're feeling stuck. Yep. I love that. Okay. So I want to segue to talking about purpose, alignment, fulfillment. I know a lot of what you talk about is no amount of money is going to make you happy it really comes down to that purpose and alignment piece as well can you talk a little bit about that absolutely so as I was

journeying from being a photographer to now working with rising Woman, one of the things that really led me to where I am and into a place where I'm the most financially abundant I've ever been and I feel the most joyous I ever have is because I was following my alignment, because I was following my truth. And what that looked like for me was tending to the things in my life that were such a yes that I couldn't say no to, that I was so passionate about and inspired by and excited about. And at that time, doing these workshops and going deep into shadow work and various forms of psychotherapy, it wasn't making me money necessarily, but it didn't need to. I was so into it that I would

do it for free. And I was so passionate about it that it filled me up in other ways. And so that piece of alignment over time led me to the exact people and places and opportunities that allowed me to step into it on a career level. Now, this isn't always going to be the case for everybody. But I think that for people who are struggling with what they're doing right now, and they do want to make a change, that if you keep tending to and working through and connecting with what you're actually inspired by and passionate about and align with that, things will start to open for you. And it might not be overnight. It might take years. It definitely took years for me, but it was so worth it.

But yeah, to step more into the piece around how money isn't necessarily going to make you happy. So I do want to say that, of course, having our basic needs met is imperative for us to feel happy. You know, if we're really struggling to pay our rent or put a food on the table or have a home like that, we love a place where we feel safe, then of course, it's going to be hard for us to feel at ease because the nervous system is just going to be in a state of flight or flight. So I do believe that on some level, we need to have our basic needs met. And that is important, especially if we're going to be doing things like shadow work and getting into some uncomfortable places. Having some security in our lives is very helpful for that. But I wouldn't say that having a lot of money is

necessarily going to make you happy. And we can see this by looking at celebrities and people with huge amounts of wealth that are struggling with mental health that have taken their own lives and have outwardly said, you know, I have it all and I'm still not happy. Because sometimes what's driving that intense energy to make money underneath it is actually a feeling of I'm not enough. And so in order to be enough, in order to be loved, in order to be worthy, I have to have X amount of dollars in my bank account. But that's just not true. Everybody is inherently worthy and no amount of money is going to change that. But if that belief resides there, if you have tons of money, it's

still going to be there. And that's not necessarily going to go away by having a fancy car or a nice home or being able to go on these luxurious vacations. While all of those things are fun and pleasurable and can bring excitement and joy into our lives, they're not the things that actually make us feel whole within. and the wholeness within that relationship to self where you actually feel a sense of I'm okay as I am. I'm worthy as I am right now. There's nothing I need to do, be or change. That's really when true happiness can arise. And I think there are people out there in the world who live in very simple ways that have that because they've really made it their

focus to find happiness through really loving themselves, really turning inward. And, you know, they're really great examples of showing the world that happiness isn't a derivative of how much money you have in your bank account. But essentially, that's at the core of it is, you know, our self worth is not how much money we have. And if we want to be happy, we really need to work on that piece first. Yeah, I so agree with that. And around the financial piece, I got to a point a couple of years ago, and I was like, you know what, I don't really need more money. I'm really happy. And every kind of six months, Danielle and I sit down, we do salary reviews, do we want to increase and we kind of sat there and we're like, I don't feel like I need to increase no more salary right now is going to make me happy. And it didn't mean that

we're going to stop pushing to make more revenue in the business because that's what we're aligned with. It's what we're passionate about, but means we can spend it on team and we can reinvest it. And I think it's so true having that balance and knowing what you need personally, and then still being able to work in full alignment from that place which feels really good and then financially you know being in that stable place has meant that exploring this work I think is a bit easier because you can't afford to go and go to the workshops or take time off to do certain things and so it's been really really helpful and so I just love that balance it's such a balance of let's work on something fulfilling and also

generates money whilst doing the other work too. And knowing that if you were self-conscious before you got money, you're probably going to be even more so when you've got money. It doesn't go away. Yeah, because money is energy. You know, it's when we have a lot of money, a lot of energy is coming into our lives. There's usually a lot of relationships occurring.

There's a lot of movement happening. And if that's being driven by the ego of not enoughness, that's going to continue to come to the surface because at the end of the day, our souls are here to evolve, grow, learn, and come back to wholeness, to come back to our true nature. And whatever is unresolved is just going to get louder and louder and louder until it's tended to. So money can sometimes actually make that louder for you because there's so much energy moving that you have to tend to these parts of yourself that are calling for attention. Yeah, it's so true. So with that,

I would love to dive in and talk a little bit about successful partnerships, you know, whether that's business partnerships or romantic partnerships. I actually think they're really similar. Do you feel that way? Absolutely. They way absolutely they are yeah yeah I definitely like Stephen's my husband Danielle is my wife like it's so similar and doing relationships consciously because it's something that I try and do in in both of those relationships and Danielle and I made the conscious decision to get a therapist because whilst we weren't dealing with issues as in our relationship we really wanted to understand how we could communicate best and just make sure that this relationship is always developing and it's

not ever going to hit those rocky places because we didn't want that and so could you talk a little bit about what you found makes a really successful partnership or conscious partnership yeah I'm really glad that you asked me about this because I've been dying to talk more about it. I think it's so important because for many of us, running a business by ourselves is actually not in alignment for who we are. You know, I love having a business partner. Our skill sets coming together have allowed for Rising Woman to grow in a way that, you know, we both envisioned and were able to bring to life through our shared skill sets. And, you know, a lot of people kind of get into this world and they're hustling by themselves and they're almost going at it in an over-independent way.

And these relationships can be so imperative in the growth of our own individual self-development, but also when it comes to actual practical matters of business, bringing two people together that have skill sets that are differing and align just makes such a difference. So the beautiful thing for Shay and I was that, you know, we were friends before we became business partners. And when we were friends, I invited her into this program that I was taking conscious relationship trainings. And so for I think it was about five years it's been now, her and're actively participating in conscious relationship work. So we really learned what it meant to clear with each other and to hold space for each other and to also understand when we were projecting onto each other. Because as you said, you know, your business partner is like your wife. And when you go deep into a shared creation with someone,

especially a business, it's almost like having a baby together, you know, and there's a lot of stuff that can turn up when you're getting really intimate with someone. And it doesn't have to be just sexually intimate. I'm talking emotional intimacy, psychological intimacy, energetic intimacy. All of your stuff starts to come to the surface. And the closer you get to that person person the more typically that they're going to become a teacher for you and you for them so the benefit of shlin and i being involved in conscious relationship work and teaching it is that we have a lot of tools at our disposal to navigate things as they come up and that doesn't mean we do it perfectly every time like we have

struggles sometimes and we miscommunicate sometimes and we go through waves of feeling really connected to each other and waves where maybe we don't feel totally on the same page and we have conflicts sometimes. But that's normal. That's like with any relationship, romantic or otherwise, there's going to be challenging times. And the important thing for us is to just stay in the game, even when things get hard, and to come back to love. So anytime that there's been a struggle between her and I, our commitment has been that we are going to come back together and communicate and do our very best to work through whatever it is that comes up through our relationship. And that commitment has allowed us to navigate those challenging times. And it's not always easy, but it is definitely one of the most

healing relationships in my life. And I know it's been very healing for her as well. And it's just, I feel so grateful to be able to have a business partner like her and someone that is willing to meet me in those challenging places and then celebrate as we navigate those challenges. But yeah, it's really important. And I could talk for days about conscious relationship work and

communication work, because whether it's in business or otherwise, these are tools that we're just not really taught in school. And most of us aren't taught by our family. And we need to relearn a way to connect and communicate and allow ourselves to move through conflict. Yeah, I totally agree. And I feel like not many people are really talking about this, but it is a really big deal to be in a partnership. And for me, I'm the same. I didn't really want to do business alone. I had been doing it that way and it just didn't feel right. I knew there was something kind of missing. And it's a big reason that the first product Danielle and I ever created together was the society because we really want to help other women find their business partners because we realized how fulfilling it was to do it with

someone but yeah it does have its challenges and you know you're not always going to have the exact same opinion on something and for me and Danielle we're on completely different time zones and so that kind of work it's so interesting how the more you get to know each other, the more this comes up and it becomes a really good lesson in the relationship. How do you manage that communication? Do you have any tools or regular ways that you communicate to make sure that you're always staying super transparent and in a good place with the relationship? Yeah. So one of the things that we teach in our program and we actually actively live and do quite regularly is called a clearing. So a relationship clearing. It's also called doing a reality check. So we set aside time and mind you, we sometimes are like, oh, let's do this once a week. And then it becomes more like once a month, but we try and

do it as often as we can. And usually we'll really prioritize it if some energy is just feeling sticky or stuck. So what that looks like is whether we're doing it in person or over the phone and in person is in many ways, a little bit more useful because you can see that person's body language, you're really with them. But if you're going to do it over a call, I do recommend having video running so that you can see each other's faces and each other's eyes and really connect. And essentially, the structure is that one person is holding space and the other person is sharing. So it starts out as something that I want you to know is and you can set a little timer, you know, do 10 minutes to start. And then the other person has 10 minutes. And so you're getting an

opportunity to just empty the bucket. And another one that we love to do is something that I see in you that I see in me. So this can be things like something that I see in you that I see in me as anxiety, or something that I see in you that I see in me is drive and passion. It can be a mix of the challenging elements and the positive elements. And then of course, at the end, we like to do an appreciation. So something I appreciate about you is. And this of course, at the end, we like to do an appreciation. So something I appreciate about you is, and this just creates an energy of safety. So it's creating a container. You're both committed to holding space, to taking ownership, doing your best to not take things personally, which is one of the hardest things to do, but so imperative to learn when we

realize that most of what another person is seeing and feeling and doing and being actually has nothing to do with us and has everything to do with them. So not taking things on and just being witness and holding that space and that energy. And that alone can just shift the dynamics of conflict or stuck energy really easily and effectively. And if after we've done that process, we feel like we still have things to share, we can get more into a dialogue. But that container piece in the beginning really sets the stage for what is your intention? What is it you really want to share? Being seen, witnessed, heard, and understood, and also

connecting to love and appreciation, which in business partnerships is so important as with any relationship, because sometimes people just don't feel really seen or heard or understood by you. And that appreciation piece can really soften the energy and allow that person to know that you really do care about them. I love that so much. I'm making notes on it. Yeah, I think it really applies to business partnerships and romantic relationships or even friendships to really have that openness. Because definitely the hardest thing is just to not get triggered by something or take things personally. And learning that can be a really amazing tool. So diving in specifically. So when you do that exercise, and you start with something I want you to know is, is that a place you would give them appreciation? Or is that where you would get something off your chest? Is that like a way of doing it? Well, my personal stance on the something I want you to know is, is I usually start the container by setting an intention first. So my intention would be, and this could be in the something I want you to know is, so something I want you to know is that my intention for this conversation is for us to come back to a place of love and understanding. I want to allow you to feel really heard and seen while also allowing myself the same. And even if we don't come to a place of shared understanding or complete

resolution, that I'm committed to getting there no matter how long it takes. So setting the intention first. And then the something I want you to know is, is normally the things that you want to get off your chest, they can be challenging or they can be positive. Sometimes you go into these clearings and there's not a lot of heavy stuff to process, but you still want to create that connection because it's good to check in and do these types of exercises, even when things aren't't heavy because then it becomes more natural and more accessible for you. So when people first do this, it can feel a little bit uncomfortable and it's kind of like lifting a weight. You build the muscle of the clearing exercise. So doing this regularly

and sometimes things will come up that you didn't even know were there because we're creating space for the unconscious, unprocessed material to come forward. And that's why doing a minimum of 10 minutes is really nice because as you're going, you know, if you feel stuck, you feel like nothing is there, you're actually reaching a bit of a block sometimes and just making eye contact and breathing and continuing with that statement, something I want you to know is even if there's nothing after it can actually invite things that might be withheld or might be challenging to say to come forward. So this process is really powerful. And it can be used, of course, in business relationships or romantic relationships. And it is really important, though, that both people are very on board and that time

is set aside for it as well as time set aside afterwards for integration because you might uncover some uncomfortable content and if you have to run off to a business meeting or tend to your kids right away right afterwards it might be a little bit challenging to integrate those pieces and the other thing I wanted to mention too was around the reality checking so reality checking is subtly different in that it's more about sharing something occurred and you have a story around it. So a very common thing is someone says something to you and you hear it through a filter of hurt or pain. And it's not always true. So this can happen a lot in text messages or emails as well, where you might experience a

tonality or take something personally, and it's just not happening. So if Shalina or someone in my life says something to me or behaves in a way that causes a reaction in me, sometimes what I'll do is I'll just say, hey, when you said this thing, what I heard was, and I wanted to do a reality check with you to see what was actually going on for you, because I understand that this might just be a story. And that is so powerful and I can just nip things in the bud because when we don't do that, we hold the story and the story often gets bigger and bigger and bigger and resentment builds. And then before you know it, you have this whole thing in your mind that this person is just mean or unkind or doesn't like you or whatever it might be.

So reality checking can just really clarify things and also make the other person aware of, you know, what's happening in your reality and how they might be able to meet you in a way that's a little bit more gentle, kind, easeful understanding and help you work through some of the triggers or traumas that are coming up for you and your connection. Yeah, I love that so much. And I love that the way you frame it will totally take that person's defensiveness out. And they can actually address it in a productive way. Because sometimes if you go to them and you say, when you said this, it would make me feel like this, they instantly get defensive, and it's kind of not going to go anywhere for anyone. And so I think that's a really, really good tool. I love that. And I just, yeah, I love the specifics of it.

So thank you for sharing those exercises. I feel like everyone listening is like scribbling notes like crazy. Yeah. And, you know, the real key to having, you know, communication that is effective, that's kind, that's compassionate, a lot of it comes down to ownership. So it's really taking responsibility for your reality and your perceptions. So recognizing that your reality and your perceptions are not always 110% right. But so many of us are so attached to being right that we'll choose right over having a connection.

We'll choose right over love. We'll choose right over our business. So sometimes we get into these arguments with people and we're just so adamant that what they did is how we saw it. And it's just not always true. There's so many complexities going on within each and every one of us. And I'm sure people who are listening can relate to a time where they were in a conversation with someone who was upset with them and said, oh, well, you said this and you did that. And they're thinking to themselves, oh my God, that's not what I meant at all. That wasn't what was happening for me at all. And when we can come back to that, recognizing that sometimes we're just not seen through our reality. We're seen through the filter of someone else's and vice versa. So really it's about taking ownership. I experienced it this way. I

recognize that it might not actually be that way. And I want to know what was happening for you. Just being really curious, being open, being open to being wrong, letting go of being right. This can resolve a lot of relational conflict because most of the time there's two rights happening and two wrongs happening. There's multiple possibilities. And even just creating that window of conversation can really bring you back into a harmonious state. Yeah, I love that. And going back to that conversation. So say you're in a conversation with someone that might not have done as much work on themselves, and they are projecting like crazy. How in that moment do you not get triggered by that and still be able to kind of make the conversation go in a productive way? Well, there's really no way to control the trigger, unfortunately. We might get triggered and the work when we get triggered is to own that we're feeling that way. So say, for example, if someone's sharing something with me and I call it losing my

center. So when I get triggered, I lose my center and I lose the capacity to listen and hear without seeing it through a filter of pain or through a filter of reactivity. So that can often be something that's happening. Again, I was talking earlier about your physiology and your nervous system. It's not always something that we can control with the brain. So if we have a previous trauma or a negative association that's being activated, our body can become very anxious, very shut down. We can go into freeze states. And it's important that we acknowledge that that's occurring without making it the other person's responsibility or their fault.

So what I would do is say, hey, can we just slow down right now? I'm noticing I'm having a lot of fear come up or anxiety or whatever the emotion is. Maybe I'm feeling shut down. And I think I need to take a few minutes to come back into my center. Maybe we need to come back to this conversation at a later time. Or perhaps I need to go get support or we need someone else to come and facilitate this conversation because I don't know that I can actually navigate and stay in my center with you right now. And it's important to me that you feel really seen,

heard, and understood in this conversation. And right now, I don't think that I'm able to do that with the way that things are going. So again, it's just taking ownership for your experience, taking ownership for the feelings that are coming up. And not everyone's going to feel really comfortable expressing what I just expressed. And it does take practice to become well-equipped and actually feel safe enough in your body. Sometimes when we're in those conversations, we might feel so triggered that we're in such a reactionary state that what I just said or how I said it, it just might not be there for you and that's okay. But just slowing down. I think that most often we're in a pace that creates a lot of conflict and by slowing down and just asking to slow the conversation down, asking to take a few deep breaths, asking to take a time out

can really bring us back into what is true. When we get really amped up, we end up saying things that we don't want to say or don't mean. you know, we just, we go into reactivity and we're not actually in our body anymore. We're just vibrating all over the place and sometimes, you know, expelling this uncomfortable energy onto another person or into the space that isn't really in our hearts, what we want to be communicating or where we want to be going. I love that so much. And it's so true. And it's, I think, so fundamentally important for everyone but especially like we go back to as entrepreneurs as leaders as you're going to be in these maybe crucial or kind of high conflict situations or conversations negotiations it's really important

that you take control of your emotions so that you can really get the outcome that you're looking for and you're not going to get there from getting triggered or you know raising your voice or storming out and really being able to come at it in the right way I think so powerful absolutely I would love for you to tell us a little bit about rising woman I know you've got a new program coming out which I would love to know a little bit more about but what is it that your platform is doing so our platform is providing education that is at the foundation of what Shalina and I have both done in our own lives. So some of the practices that I've been talking about today, we dive into those practices, we share more in depth about how to implement them. But we also

go deeply into the reasons that we're caught in relational patterns that aren't serving us or behavioral patterns that aren't serving us. So we're diving into really getting to the root of what's causing these issues in our lives to occur. We're looking at family systems. We're looking at all sorts of things that contribute to some of the ways that we're living or experiencing life that doesn't feel in tune with what we actually want to be experiencing. So the work is quite deep and there's a lot of elements to it. And essentially, Shay and I decided to build a foundational program that allowed people to step into it piece by piece, supported by somatic work. So as you're digging into this stuff, sometimes the nervous system can get very activated. So we give people tools to create a more easeful way to engage in shadow work and

engage in stepping into a little piece of trauma and coming back into a place of ease. So while it's challenging, there's also a lot of beauty and learning and love that comes from it. So Rising Woman is essentially a space where women can come, they can connect, they can learn about themselves, they can see what's holding them back and step into a new way of being in the world. Now the new program, Becoming the One, essentially what we are creating around this program is a way for women to not only start to fall more in love with themselves, but step into a place where they can actually attract an aligned partner. A lot of the times when we have these unresolved traumas, we're attracting people who we call ghost figures of the past. So a ghost figure of the past is someone who represents an unresolved relationship trauma from your history. So if you notice that you

attract the same type of people over and over and over again, whether it's romantically or relationally. So maybe you attract really avoidant men or avoidant women who, you know, just aren't emotionally available, aren't willing to go into deep conversation with you. You often feel abandoned or alone or rejected. There's actually a pattern to that. And when we address that pattern, we can start to attract different types of people. But really, it's about doing the inner work. We can't just think to ourselves, oh, I want to attract an emotionally available person and boom, there they are. It's actually about shifting the dynamics on the unconscious level that allows us to show up differently, to resonate a different frequency into the world that then shifts who we're drawing in as well as shifts who we're actually attracted to. So essentially, this program is a way for people to come in, to see themselves in a new way, to start understanding

their patterns, understanding this dynamic of searching for this one perfect person and really get to the root of why they're single or why they're struggling relationally and shift into a new state of being that attracts a person who really feels like a good fit. I love that so much. I'm definitely going to take one of the programs. I think what you're doing is amazing. And you've grown so fast too. You've got such an amazing, huge community of people in there. And I just think the work you're doing is super important.

And then another kind of part of what you do, you have a lot of kind of astrology stuff on there. Can you explain how someone can kind of get started with that? Yeah, so we have an amazing astrologer who's been doing new and full moon reports for us. And Bo Shalina and I have a passion for astrology. And, you know, it's something that we've explored on our own time and have found a lot of benefit in just as a way of deepening into another layer of self-understanding. You know, Things like astrology, human design, and different personality profiling systems like the Enneagram,

there's Myers-Briggs, these types of things. I think they can be beneficial in the sense that they create a mirror and a window for you to discover more about yourself. And when we're first diving into this kind of work, it's actually important to be somewhat self-oriented and that we're really taking time out to be with ourselves, to learn more about who we are, why we feel certain ways, and what kind of patterns and frequencies are happening in our daily lives. And astrology can be really helpful for that. We can dive into our own chart and see the things that are on some level divinely designed or karmically designed and how that's influencing us. But at the same time,

taking that information and also letting it go, I don't see it as a rule, but rather an exploration. So for example, you might discover that you have a certain pattern in your life, and that doesn't mean that that's who you are. It's just what you're experiencing. And you can actually transform through that. But one of the things that I got out of diving more into astrology and human design and these things is I felt a sense of relief. It actually helped me have deeper layers of self-acceptance because I really saw myself in my chart. And I really saw myself in these systems. And I said, wow, this isn't something that's wrong with me, but actually something that's a gift. And all that I need to do is

shift my perspective around it. For example, I'm a highly sensitive individual, people who are informed about astrology. I have a lot of eighth house energy, Piscean energy, Scorpio energy. So a lot of really deep, intense, emotional, empathic, psychic kind of energy in my chart. And upon discovering that through astrology, I was able to see that that's actually a gift. And while it can be challenging in a world where the pace is so fast and we're overstimulated, and at times sensitivity can be seen as a weakness, I started to see it as a superpower. And I am a hustler in my own way, but my hustle doesn't look like what other people's does. Mine is about working smarter rather than working harder.

And I actually take a lot of time out to just go inward. And that's where a lot of my inspiration and creativity comes from. So astrology has informed me in understanding myself more and therefore being able to show up more fully in the world. I love that so much. And I really want to touch on it because Enneagram is something that we get all of our clients to do in our coaching program, because depending on people's numbers, you coach them completely different. And then they'll ask a certain question and you're like, well, that's a yes if you're an eight and it's a no if you're a seven yeah and it's

actually a really really good tool so I love that that's incorporated and you have some really really good blog posts on there that I recommend people check out if they're interested in how to get started or where to kind of look to figure out more about their charts because it's something I recently got into like in the past year or so and I'm Capricorn through and through I think my chart is like all in Capricorn nearly amazing and it's just so such interesting work and it helps you be a lot more self-aware and understand you know what it looks like for you to be in a in your power and what those negative patterns you could look out for as well absolutely I love that well thank you so much for

being on the podcast this has been such an amazing conversation. And I feel like everyone listening is just like scribbling notes like crazy. So thank you so much. Yeah, it was a pleasure. And I can't wait to, you know, hear back from people what they got out of this. And if they have any questions, I'd love for them to connect with me through Instagram or through email. And I'd just love to hear, you know, what people want to learn more about these days, because that really informs what I write about and what we create. And, you know, our community is such an important piece of our creativity. So thank you so much for having me. Yeah, absolutely. And for anyone listening, you know, take a screenshot as always of this episode and tag me at amnatalie at bossbabe.inc and tag Heather at risingwoman. And what's your personal Instagram too?

It's at heyheatherobscura. Love it. Thank you so much. Yeah, thank you. If you loved this episode, please subscribe, download a few more, and please leave us a review. I really want to hear what you enjoyed, what your main takeaways were, and I also want to know what you enjoyed, what your main takeaways were. And I also want to know

what you want to hear us talk about next. To say thanks for leaving us a review, we'll send you a copy of The Boss Babe 25. The Boss Babe 25 is the 25 essential resources you need for personal and professional growth. It covers everything from our favorite rituals, books, and hacks. If you want a copy, just leave us a review,

screenshot it, and send to podcastatbossbabe.com. We will then email you a copy AS leave us a review screenshot it and send to podcast at bossbabe.com we will then email you a copy ASAP and since we love Instagram you can go to the hashtag the boss babe podcast and find our latest post and leave a question in the comments we love reading through the comments and we'll make sure to answer it on our next podcast