the bossbabe podcast - 79. Behind The Scenes of Marie Forleo's Business + What it Looks Like to Scale an 8 Figure Business

Episode Date: February 13, 2020

We’re joined by Marie Forleo in today’s episode on The BossBabe Podcast. Before building her multimillion-dollar business, B-School, creating an award-winning show, MarieTV, and being named by Opr...ah as a thought leader for the next generation, Marie Forleo was like the rest of us - just trying to figure everything out.    Tune in as Marie shares her inspirational journey to discovering her purpose and how you can too. We’re also going behind-the-scenes with Marie and discussing what it takes to build an 8-figure business and the importance of simplifying to amplify your life and business. After this episode, you’ll be left empowered with actionable tips to help define your priorities, improve productivity, and how to efficiently scale your business. Join B-School: http://share.marieforleobschool.com/LzvbG Sign up for a free 3-part video training series with Marie Forleo: https://mbsy.co/marieforleo/54994616

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Starting point is 00:00:00 You know, if you want to see something grow back really strong and full, you actually cut it back. And then when it comes back, it's bigger and thicker and stronger than it was before. When you know what's important, it's a lot easier to ignore what's not. It's not about your aptitude when it comes to technology, it's about your attitude. Welcome to the Boss Babe podcast, a place where we share with you the real behind the scenes of building successful businesses, achieving peak performance and learning how to balance it all. I'm Natalie Ellis, CEO of Boss Babe and your host for this week's
Starting point is 00:00:40 episode. Today I'm chatting with someone who Oprah named as a thought leader for the next generation, Marie Forleo. She's the host of the award-winning show MarieTV with over 52 million views and host of Marie Forleo podcast with 12 million downloads. Marie also created B-School, an eight-week training program that teaches online marketing strategies to business owners who want more sales and more impact from their online presence. Her philosophy, everything is figureoutable, also happens to be the name of her number one New York Times bestseller. So you know, just out here absolutely crushing it. Now if you're anything like me, you're hearing the words 52 million views and it just feels so out of reach. 52 million views. Sure I'm inspired but I'm also sitting here questioning how on earth Marie even
Starting point is 00:01:25 got to that level and is it even replicable for people like us? Truthfully I know the answer, it absolutely is and I know people can often think that way when they see our 2 million follower mark on Instagram and so I really make a point of bringing you all behind the scenes to show what it really took and how possible it is for other people. But here's the thing, I teach the strategies I use to get there but I don't necessarily encourage others to go after those numbers. After all, 10,000 followers who are your absolute ideal clients who want to pay you for your services might be enough to change the entire trajectory of your business, helping you quit that job and start making sales consistently. So when I hear Marie's numbers, I feel really inspired to ask her the same questions.
Starting point is 00:02:05 What does it look like in the back end of your business? How did you get to where you are now? How can people like us even get started using your strategies to attract the right eyeballs to our content? And so that's exactly what we got into in this week's episode. It's a good one and I know you're going to have a ton of takeaways. So with that, let's dive straight in and as always take a screenshot and share your biggest takeaways and Insta stories. Tag me at IamNatalie and at BossBabes.inc. This episode is sponsored by Soul CBD. I've been using Soul CBD consistently for over 18 months now. And please do not take it lightly when I tell you that it has been a game changer for me and so many people that I know. I've noticed a really big difference in a lot of ways. So I'll just dive into a couple
Starting point is 00:02:44 specifically. But firstly, my deep sleep.. You know I track absolutely everything I do in regards to my sleep with my aura ring so when I take sleep supplements I do them individually so I can see which ones actually make a difference. I'm all about simplifying to amplify. I don't want to take 10 things if it's two things that are actually making a difference. So I tested it and when I take CBD on an evening I get almost double the amount of deep sleep that I'm used to which means your sleep is more efficient, you're waking up feeling a lot more refreshed, it's really really good for your brain, your focus, all the things that we need more of. So there's a couple of tricks I want to share with you. So what I do is I put
Starting point is 00:03:17 liquid straight under my tongue, it tastes really good but you want to leave it there for a few seconds before swallowing it. This is really important. And then every week or so, you want to take a couple of days off taking it before bed so that your body doesn't get used to it, so the effects don't reduce. Trust me, try that. Just even if you try one bottle, I know you're going to be hooked
Starting point is 00:03:34 because it really, really changes the game for your sleep. And then the second thing, you know I'm all about reducing stress in every shape and form, but like you know, entrepreneurship is not always the easiest career option. So if I feel like I'm having an overly challenging day and notice any anxiety creeping in I take some CBD I have it in my desk drawer both at home and in the office and I just take a dropper of it under
Starting point is 00:03:55 the tongue and within half an hour I feel so different so much lighter so much less anxious and stressed I love this product I know you'll love this product and that's why I'm so excited to genuinely continue sharing it with you so listeners of this podcast can actually get 20% off on soul CBD products using code BOSSBABE. Their top products are the tincture that I mentioned, gummies which taste so good, bath bombs and sleep capsules. Their products are 100% organic, zero THC and third-party tested and you can get them at mysoulcbd.com and whilst I can speak to my personal experiences using soul CBD our bodies are all different so please consult a doctor or other medical professional prior to deciding if CBD is right for you also worth noting that I live
Starting point is 00:04:37 in California where it is legal to purchase and use CBD so give it a little check to see if it's legal where you are a boss babe is unapologetically ambitious and paves the way for herself and other women to rise. Keep going and fighting on. She is on a mission to be her best self in all areas. It's just believing in yourself. Confidently stepping outside her comfort zone to create her own version of success. Welcome to the podcast. Thank you. Thanks for having me.
Starting point is 00:05:05 So I would love to dive in with, I know you've had so many different careers and it feels like you've already lived so many lifetimes from being a hip hop dance instructor to a training assistant. When did you really begin to find your purpose? How did that come about for you? So taking it back to the beginning, because I think it's instructive, especially for anyone listening who might be feeling the same kind of twinges inside that I did. You know, when I graduated from school, the first job I had was on the New York Stock Exchange on the floor of Wall Street. And I remember being really excited about that because I'm a person that has a lot of
Starting point is 00:05:37 energy. And I loved being there because there's literally no seats. So you stand all day, you're running around. And I was excited because there was just so much opportunity. And it was this kind of Mecca of finance and business. And it felt like the center of the world. But honestly, after about six months of being in that job, I started hearing this small little voice inside that was like, Marie, this isn't what you're meant to do. This isn't who you're meant to be. You're supposed to be something else. And at first I tried to ignore that voice because it wasn't telling me what else to do. But after time kept going by, it was
Starting point is 00:06:10 getting louder and louder and louder until one day I remember being on the floor and I had what I can only identify now as like a little mini panic attack where I felt dizzy. I felt nauseous. I was having trouble breathing. And I told my boss like, hey, I need to run out and grab a cup of coffee. And I just graduated from Seton Hall University, which is a Catholic school. So I was kind of trained in a moment of crisis to look up for a little bit of guidance. So rather than getting coffee, I made a beeline to the nearest church. It was actually Trinity Church. And I sat on the steps and I just cried because I felt like such a loser. On the one hand, I was so grateful to have a job. My family doesn't have a lot of money.
Starting point is 00:06:46 They busted their buns to help put me through school. And I had a steady paycheck, healthcare, and yet I was miserable and wanted to quit and had no backup plan. So the first piece of guidance that came into my heart was call your dad, because I was terrified of just making him, bringing shame on the family,
Starting point is 00:07:04 because I was like, what am I doing quitting this job and not having any sort of direction on what to do next? So I call my dad and I'm crying and I'm telling him how much I hate this job and I'm so sorry. I don't want to be a disappointment. And he broke in and he gave me one of the best pieces of advice that I've ever heard and it really changed everything. And it was this. He was like, Rhi, look, you've worked since you were nine years old. I'm not worried about you figuring out how to put food on the table. He's like, but you are going to be working for the next 40 to 50 years of your life. You have to find something you love. And if this job is making you that miserable and you're crying and you're this upset and you're physically sick,
Starting point is 00:07:39 you need to quit. And then you need to do whatever you have to do to figure out what that thing is that you love. Because once you do that, everything else falls into place. In my soul, I knew he was right, even though I had no clue how to find something I love. They don't teach us that in school. So I thought, okay, let me go back to my childhood. I'm very creative and I also love business. What do I do with these two things? And the next idea that came to my mind was maybe magazine publishing. It has the editorial side that's very creative. It has the business side with ads. And I went and got into a temp agency and they got me a position with Gourmet Magazine on the ad sales side. And I was like, okay, this has got to be it, right? It's a completely
Starting point is 00:08:20 different type of environment. Wall Street was like 99.9% men. This was much more balanced. My boss was a woman. The publisher was a woman. It was really exciting. So I'm getting to know this new industry and I'm psyched to be there. And all of a sudden, that little voice appeared again, like, Marie, this isn't who you're meant to be. This isn't what you're meant to do. You're meant to do something else. And I was like, oh, good Lord, not this. Why? Why is this happening again? So I took a step back and I tried to look at it more objectively. And I thought to myself, okay, well, Wall Street, very business oriented, all these numbers. Advertising, very business oriented, all these numbers. But here's another clue. I didn't want to become my boss. And I was like, okay, well, if I don't want to climb this
Starting point is 00:09:00 corporate ladder and become either an ad executive or the publisher of a magazine, why am I wasting their time and mine? So I thought to myself, maybe I need to be a bit more creative. Maybe I've just been starving that aspect of myself. I need something that's a little more fluid and just rooted in creativity. So I went to Condé Nast, which was the big publishing house. I went to the HR department. I said, anytime you have an assistant position at any side of any editorial magazine, let me know. I will move over there. So a position came up at Mademoiselle to be a fashion assistant on the edit side. I made that move. And I was like, this has got to be it. I'm going to fashion shows. I'm working with designers. I'm helping with layouts and
Starting point is 00:09:39 photographers. This is just going to be my dream. And at first, it was pretty awesome. It was novel. It was new. And then of course, that voice came back again. And I have to be my dream. And at first it was pretty awesome. It was novel. It was new. And then of course that voice came back again. And I have to be honest with you at this point, I felt so broken. Nothing made sense. It was like, this isn't who you are. This isn't what you're meant to do. This isn't who you're meant to be. And I really felt like, I'm like, do I have a commitment issue? Am I cognitively impaired? Nothing made sense. I was the valedictorian of my class. I like to work really hard, and yet I can't seem to want to keep a job. One day, I was on the internet, and I stumbled across an article about a new profession at the
Starting point is 00:10:15 time called coaching. And it was all about this new profession where you could actually help people. You could do it remotely. I just remember when I read this article, something in my heart and my soul lit up like nothing else. It was like the clouds parted and little angels came out and it was like, oh, like this is what you're meant to do. But I was 23 years old and I was filled with so much insecurity and self-doubt. And the one side of my mind was like, who the hell do you think you can be to be a coach? You can't seem to hold down a job. You're mired in piles of debt. And who the hell is going to hire a 23-year-old life coach? You haven't even lived life yet. So that was happening on the logical part of my mind. But on the deeper soul level, I knew I had to do this. Something about it felt right. So I signed
Starting point is 00:11:00 up for a three-year coach training program and continued my work at the magazine during the day. Fast forward about six months, I get a phone call from the HR department. Another magazine, Vogue, had a promotion for me. So they wanted to give me more money. It was a lot more prestige. And that honestly was my fork in the road. Do I take this promotion and stay on the safe corporate path
Starting point is 00:11:22 with health benefits and a steady paycheck and an understandable job? Or do I quit and try and start this weird coaching business that no one has ever heard of? I have no money. I have no clue. I'm completely insecure and I'm 23 years old. And so that's what I decided to do is not take the promotion, quit and start my own coaching business. And that's how I discovered my purpose. I love that. And so you really played the long game there doing the three years of certification so you could get there. And what did that look like when you were in debt and you
Starting point is 00:11:55 wanted to take that leap? It must have been terrifying. There's not really a backup plan to that. Correct. So the first thing that I did was I started bartending and waiting tables again, because that's what helped me put myself through college. And so that was the thing that I knew how to do to at least get some money coming in so I could keep my apartment and then I could keep food on the table while I figured out this whole coaching thing and how to start a business. And what was great, like for context, this is 1999 or the year 2000. So everything was so brand new. I remember I bartered with one of my dad's friends to, it was basically like a trade of something and like a little bit of money to build my first ever website in HTML. And so it was just really scrappy. I mean, I didn't know what
Starting point is 00:12:37 the heck I was doing, but the value of all those kind of failed careers was that I hit so many pain points, I wasn't willing to go back. And I said, I need to make this work no matter how long it takes to figure out no matter how long of a journey this is going to be. I can't go back to where I came from. And what did it look like when you were finally able to take that full time without doing what you were saying on the side? Was that just like, oh, my God, everything's happening for me? Well, yes and no. So when I first started my coaching business, again, the primary way that I was earning a living was through bartending and waiting tables.
Starting point is 00:13:11 But after about two or three years of that, my coaching practice was growing and that was great. But I was also doing all of this personal development work and I recognized for myself that just being a coach was like a very narrow definition. It didn't really define all of the things that I was and who I wanted to be and who I wanted to become. And I also had this simultaneous passion for dance, for fitness, for hip hop, for writing, for the new world of online business. And a real breakthrough happened when I actually gave myself permission around 25 to start pursuing dance more seriously. And so I developed an entire simul career
Starting point is 00:13:46 in addition to coaching around dance fitness and eventually becoming a Nike dance elite athlete, one of the world's first, even though I had no formal training. And so the reason I'm injecting that part of the story is it took me seven years before I actually said, okay, now I am ready to go full time in just my online business and let go of the dance, let go of the fitness, let go of the bartending, the waiting tables.
Starting point is 00:14:11 So by the time I did cross that chasm, I was confident emotionally and financially that this was the right time. And so it was exciting, but I also really did love the other things I was doing. And there was a bit of sadness when I had to let go, especially the dance bits. And do you think that was really essential to push your business forward, to just let go of everything that wasn't helping you focus? It was. I coined the phrase multi-passionate entrepreneur when I was kind of struggling for how to define
Starting point is 00:14:37 myself because I didn't fit into a conventional box. And when I was exploring dance and traveling around the world and creating dance videos and had for myself, it forced me to step back and to make not only a strategic, but a heart-based decision on what I wanted the next chapters of my life and my business to look like. So I could feel internally how much bigger everything would get if I focused in on it. And that's kind of what it looks like you do now. You know, you have B-School and you've been running B-School for a really long time now. 11 years. Yeah. You've put a lot of students through that. And although you're continually making it better
Starting point is 00:15:29 and better, you're scaling the one product on that side. And has that been hard for you to focus? No. I mean, so we have our show and our podcast. So there's MarieTV and the Marie Forleo podcast. The TV show side of it has been going for over a decade. Just last year, I put out a book called Everything is Figureoutable. We have another program called The Copy Cure. And before I even just went down to B-School, I used to have mentorship programs. I would do live events. There were all of these other pieces of the business. So for me, one of the things that I live by is another mantra, in addition to everything is figureoutable, is simplify to amplify. So I think that the world and culture right now
Starting point is 00:16:09 is constantly challenging people to do more, to produce more, to be more places, to be on 24 seven, right? And most people feel they're starving for time. They're both overwhelmed with their life and underwhelmed in terms of their satisfaction. And for me, I could see very clearly that in order to reach the types of depths that I wanted to reach in terms of my teaching,
Starting point is 00:16:31 the impact that I wanted the program to have, how I wanted to scale my team, like how I wanted to see things grow, I didn't feel like it was possible if I kept spreading myself too thin. And there's this great idea in gardening called pruning. See it a lot here in Los Angeles. It just happened to all of my rose bushes. You know, if you want to see something grow back really strong and full, you actually cut it back. All the energy gets focused, right? And then when it comes back, it's bigger and thicker and stronger than it was before. And I think oftentimes that's true in our business. A lot of times when you start to feel yourself spread too thin, it's a really valuable exercise to take a step back and to do an analysis. What are all of your revenue streams looking like? How profitable are they? Not just in terms of financial, but in terms of emotional and mental.
Starting point is 00:17:18 Sometimes we do things because we've always done them, but we're kind of done. And it's just being done out of habit, or there's a new way that we could possibly look at our businesses. So they're more satisfying, there's probably more opportunity, and we can get a lot more with doing a lot less. I really feel that. And it was similar for me too. I remember having lots of programs, having lots of things. And at the time you do it because you're feeling into what you like and what works. But then as soon as we started simplifying the products, we had more time to create content and
Starting point is 00:17:48 we could put more value out there and create an impact while also scaling that one product. Yeah. And I think that's a really, really good bit of advice for entrepreneurs is just find that thing that you can go all in on because it's so much easier to put your attention into one thing and just like you say, focus on helping that grow. Let's take a quick pause to talk about my new favorite all-in-one platform Kajabi. You know I've been singing their praises lately because they have helped our business run so much smoother and with way less complexity which I love. Not to mention our team couldn't be happier because now everything is in one place so it makes collecting data, creating pages, collecting payment, all the things so much simpler. One of our mottos at Boss
Starting point is 00:18:27 Babe is simplify to amplify and Kajabi has really helped us do that this year. So of course I needed to share it here with you. It's the perfect time of year to do a bit of spring cleaning in your business, you know, get rid of the complexity and instead really focus on getting organized and making things as smooth as possible. I definitely recommend Kajabi to all of my clients and students. So if you're listening and haven't checked out Kajabi yet, now is the perfect time to do so because they are offering Boss Babe listeners a 30-day free trial. Go to kajabi.com slash boss babe to claim your 30-day free trial. That's kajabi.com slash boss babe. Bro, so speaking of simplifying to amplifying, I love that. And I think that's super powerful.
Starting point is 00:19:14 How do you do that in a weekly basis? So how do you, there's obviously so many different things going on. There's so many pieces of content you could be creating. There's so many things you could be doing. How do you in a week make sure you're really simplifying? Well, for me, in order to be effective with your week, you have to really understand what you're trying to accomplish in not only a year, but for me, it's about my life. And I like to look at my life usually in three to five year kind of chunks.
Starting point is 00:19:35 I think that you go past five years, not for everyone, but this is just my own perspective. The world's gonna change so much. You're gonna change so much as a human that what you think you might wanna be doing in five years or 10 years may not be accurate given how the landscape changes in the marketplace. So for me, my weeks are determined by what I've set out to accomplish at the beginning of the year. Perfect example. I know what I'm up to this year, both personally and business-wise. I know what my top goals are. I know what the big projects
Starting point is 00:20:05 are in terms of the calendar. So when I'm looking at how to effectively plan my week, the only things that are getting in my week are things that I've predetermined are the most important. So here's another, I like to live my life by mantras because they really help me stay on track. When you know what's important, it's a lot easier to ignore what's not. And I think one of the biggest mistakes that people make right now is they don't take enough time to step back and define clearly what are the one, two, or three most important projects, goals, experiences, achievements that you want to make sure happen this year. I don't think it should be 10 or 15 or 20 or 25. Again, simplify to amplify. The more you can focus in concretely
Starting point is 00:20:52 on what's most important, you can reverse engineer your weeks to give you the best chance possible to get there. I'll give you another concrete example. When I was working on my book, Everything is Figureoutable, I knew that in order to keep my business running, to not let any of those balls drop, and to write the best book I possibly could, there was no way other things are getting into my calendar. I don't care how big the speaking engagement opportunity is. I don't care how big so-and-so, oh, it's great exposure, which is always the one that people kind of use to get themselves off track. Oh, it's going to be great exposure. Meanwhile, it's not, or it could be, but is that more important than what you've already said is the most important thing? So I would wake up at 5 a.m. every morning to work on actually writing
Starting point is 00:21:36 the book or whatever stage it was at, writing it, editing it, re-editing it, whatever it had to do. And that allowed me to be like, okay, if I'm doing this from 5 a.m. till about 8 a.m., then there's all the other things I need to do to keep the business running. So when new opportunities come in, I'm like, no, that's not getting on my calendar. Because if I'm not healthy, I'm not focused, I'm not strong. And if I don't keep my team healthy and focused and strong, there's no way we can reach the heights that we're capable of reaching. I love that. Do you have any daily routines or rituals that you do to keep you healthy, focused, strong?
Starting point is 00:22:08 Oh, for sure. I mean, on the productivity side, one of the things I've been doing for years, we did a MarieTV about this. It's like the four minute trick to massive productivity is every single day before you wrap up your work for the day is to make a list of exactly what you're going to get done the next day. It sounds so simple and you're like, it's like it will transform your life if you just map it out before you shut everything down. So when you wake up, you always hit the ground running and you have your clear marching orders in terms of not getting sucked into your phone for three hours, not getting taken off course by a quote unquote opportunity or wondering what should I be doing right now? Everything is so clearly mapped out and it's aligned with what you've said is most important.
Starting point is 00:22:53 So that's on the productivity side. In terms of the health and wellbeing side, movement is really, really important to me. Sometimes I do it in the morning, sometimes I do it in the afternoon. At a season like now in my life, we're in the midst of talking about B-School and there's a lot of travel. I will weave fitness into wherever I can fit it. But if there's a time when I'm not doing a lot of promotion or not traveling a lot, usually it happens in that kind of mid-morning section because I find that's really good. I crank out a bunch of work really early, go work out, do a bunch more work, then I'm done. Meditation, it's another one. I have ADHD, so it's really, really important for me to train my brain and to train myself to just stay clear. And then I would say having as much
Starting point is 00:23:30 fun as humanly possible. Fun is so underrated. I take private dance classes. I take my team to places like Disneyland. We'll go on roller coasters. We do karaoke trips. We do so many things that have absolutely nothing to do with learning or business or improving ourselves that are just purely about fun. And I honestly think it gives us an edge. I completely agree. I love that. And I think fun is so important. I think creativity is so much fun. And especially when you can tie that to something you're not making money from. Yes. I think as entrepreneurs, we're very good at making fun profitable. And so when you're like,
Starting point is 00:24:04 I'm not going to make money from this. It's really fun. I noticed you have an aura ring on. Yes. I think entrepreneurs are very good at making fun profitable. And so when you're like, I'm not going to make money from this. It's really fun. I notice you have an aura ring on. Yes. Do you love biohacking and little things like that? I do because I feel like, well, first of all, in terms of our culture right now and environmentally, you know, there's just so many challenge points. The foods that are put in front of us, the water we drink. I'm from New York, from New Jersey, but I've lived in New York for 20 years. And I remember when I first came out and started spending time in LA, the water wreaked havoc on my skin, on my hair. I was like, what is happening? And that kind of sent me down this rabbit hole of looking at everything in my environment, especially when I'm spending time out here to make sure that I'm not taking myself off track. So with the Oura Ring,
Starting point is 00:24:43 I love paying attention to my sleep. I love understanding how that impacts how I'm not taking myself off track. So with the Oura Ring, I love paying attention to my sleep. I love understanding how that impacts how I'm able to focus every single day. And I think also just as a woman, looking at what I eat impacts my body and my thinking, paying attention to my hormones, paying attention to my cycle to make sure that I'm not being harder on myself than I should be
Starting point is 00:25:02 and making sure that I'm fueling myself with as much nutrient dense food as possible. And then if something's off, understanding very quickly how to get myself back on track. I love that you mentioned that. Yeah, we did a podcast not so long ago about using your menstrual cycle as your superpower. And it's so funny when that becomes part of your awareness, you just get it. But before I even knew about that, I might be ovulating and all of a sudden I'm so creative and I have so much energy. And now being able to use that as a superpower and scheduling those things in is incredible. And it makes such a big difference. It makes a huge difference. And I think also for me, there were so many times, especially
Starting point is 00:25:36 just running so fast, trying to build so many things in the business and having those days where I'm like, gosh, I kind of suck at everything or just feeling especially cranky or especially like I have a short fuse. And then period catches me off. I'm like, oh, oh, that's why I was a monster for the past two days or why I wanted to cry in the corner, where now I feel like when I have worked to integrate more of that wisdom, if I know I'm going to have a rough day or two, I'm not going to schedule a bunch of stuff and I'm going to be kinder to myself and say, you know what? I'm not going to work a full five, six or eight hours. I'm going to go take that gentle yoga class. I'm going to go take a walk because that's what this mind and body needs in order for me to be at my best.
Starting point is 00:26:20 Yeah, I love it. And you probably end up being more productive too. I feel like sometimes we can force ourselves to sit there and just stare at a screen and we're not doing anything. If you just get out and walk for 20 minutes, you might a break hustle, I think it's so toxic. I think it's destructive. I also think it's important to place things in a certain context. You know, for me, for any human being, when they're first starting up a business, you are gonna work a lot more. To get something off of the ground,
Starting point is 00:26:57 it does take an intense amount of work and focus. However, you also have to pay attention to your health and your sleep. And I think you also have to not have that habit continue after you've lifted off. Meaning after you've gotten something off the ground, you get a little bit of momentum, you have to take a step back
Starting point is 00:27:13 and not fall into perpetual workaholism because that will just destroy every part of your life, every part of your health, and you'll wind up waking up one day going like, what the hell is all this for? What am I doing? I don't have great doing? I don't have great relationships. I don't like who I am as a person. I don't feel good if I'm not working.
Starting point is 00:27:30 And that's a really sad place to be. So I think that, yes, you have to work hard, of course. You have to stay focused. And at the beginning stages of anything, it's going to be intense. But I think we also have to balance that conversation with health and with sustainability and with longevity. I agree. I think entrepreneurship sometimes is like a magic carpet ride where you can get on and without even realizing it, you've been doing it for years and you're working the same amount and you're still on that hustle train and your nervous system is used to it. So to then stop doing that can be pretty difficult. So I think that intention is so important. Yeah. I had to put bumpers in place for me. It was really, really useful.
Starting point is 00:28:05 Probably about five or six years ago, I had actually, it was a PMS carb craving that completely changed our business. It was a day and I was like, I need a croissant. I was in New York. I was like, I really need a croissant right now. And I walked out of my apartment and I tried to go to this little French bakery around the corner that I'd always wanted to go to. And I went up to the door and they had this beautiful little paper white sign on the door
Starting point is 00:28:25 that said closed due to vacation. And I was like, huh? And it was like a two week span. I said, isn't that interesting? And I was like, wow, we have this digital business. At that time, I'd been doing MarieTV every single week for years. We have these programs. And I was like, you know what? I feel like I got caught in the slipstream of the culture that says, you need to produce 24-7, 365. And I went back and I went to my director of operations. I said, you know what? I want to do an experiment. I said, what if we close our company down, just like this little bakery does, for two weeks during the summer and everyone's off? And we do it again two weeks during the winter over the holidays. Everyone's off.
Starting point is 00:29:06 She's like, I think this is amazing. I was like, why don't we try it? What's the worst thing that can happen? So we started that policy in our company and I have to tell you, it changed everything. Our team is completely distributed. They are so grateful to have that downtime to be with their family, to be with their friends, to just recharge.
Starting point is 00:29:22 No one feels guilty because everyone knows that everyone is actually taken off at the same time. So no one's missing out on a big project or you know what I mean? Feeling like they're gonna come back to a mountain full of emails that they should have been in on. And it's really been transformative.
Starting point is 00:29:35 And so we've been playing consistently with ideas like that in our company and it's made a tremendous difference. That's got me tempted, but terrified. There's nothing to be terrified of. So here's what I would just suggest for you to ponder. Culture tries to tell us that if you take a break for a minute, a day, if you don't produce and post and engage, that you're somehow going to fall behind and be irrelevant. That's total bullshit.
Starting point is 00:30:01 Right? First of all, it's not sustainable to, I don't think. And by the way, if you love being on 24 seven, God bless. I think you'll probably hit a wall at some point where that may not be true anymore. So it's just valuable to consider. But I will tell you in our business, nothing bad has happened. And in fact, the opposite.
Starting point is 00:30:18 I've had so many business owners write to me or leave us notes and messages to say that us doing that has inspired them to do it in their own companies and it has made such a huge difference. They're spending more quality time with their friends and their family. They wind up coming back to work with all of these incredible insights and breakthroughs just because they went hiking or they took some time being unplugged. And so I think that it's really wise to challenge societal norms, especially as it relates to business. And I think too, the fact that it's terrifying,
Starting point is 00:30:51 I think fear is a GPS for where our soul most wants to go. And so the fact that it is a little like, oh gosh, are we allowed to do that? I think that's something absolutely worthy of exploration. I think so too. I'm hearing and I'm like, part of me is excited and part of me is the what if, what if, what if, but I love that because it's the same. It's this constant feeling of, you know, we don't have many products, but the content side, we're always wanting to be producing. And so I love that. I think I might start implementing that. Yeah. And it's actually not that hard. And to be honest, if you plan for it in advance, you can still have a degree of connection. Like we have even during our close times now, there are emails that go out, you know, and they're pre-scheduled and we let
Starting point is 00:31:30 people know. So there's nothing kind of shady about it. It's very transparent. It's letting people know we're on our break. And here's a note that I wanted you to consider, you know, until we see, quote unquote, see you again in your inbox. So there's all different ways to manage around it should you want to, But I would highly encourage the experiment. Okay. I love it. I'm inspired. I'm going to try.
Starting point is 00:31:48 So I would love to know, your team is completely remote. Completely remote. So we film in New York City. So when we're there, my New York City-based crew is there with me. And when I'm here on the West Coast, I'm going to see my director of operations in a little bit. So I definitely see people and we all see each other, but we don't work in an office day to day together. Got it. I have half. So I have the office here in LA and some team here and some remote. How do you manage a remote team? Is there certain things you do daily to make sure everyone's kind of on track and spending time
Starting point is 00:32:17 together? How have you found it? Yeah. So we've always been this way. So it's kind of native to us. But simple tools like Slack and Asana do 99% of the heavy lifting and just Google Apps and Google Sheets and Google Docs and email and phone, like all the normal stuff, we actually find it quite seamless. And for us, I think our team members, they love the fact and it's also a huge selling point when we're recruiting, the fact that people don't have to commute. And especially for folks that have young families or they have people at home or folks that they care for, pets that they care for, parents, it can make a tremendous difference. The fact that you don't have to spend hours in a car, the fact that you don't necessarily have to shower every single day and get dressed and show up someplace. That saved time can make
Starting point is 00:33:06 an incredible difference in the quality of people's life and their ability to focus when they are at work because they're not feeling pulled in a million directions. So the way that we stay connected, honestly, is the tools that I mentioned. We have two weekly calls where everyone gets on the line and we just make sure all the priorities are in alignment. And if people need to connect on certain projects, that happens. But we're all just really good at picking up phones and connecting with each other when needed. And otherwise, as long as people are excellent communicators, especially in the written form, so many things can happen seamlessly and not on the same schedule. We have so many people on the
Starting point is 00:33:43 East Coast, so many people on the West Coast. Sometimes we work with people internationally and as long as you communicate well, it can all work. I love that. Okay, so you've been doing B-School for 11 years now. Yes. You have seen a lot of different things change. I'm sure, you know, the way social media worked just a few years ago is so different
Starting point is 00:33:58 to the way it works now. What are the main differences you've seen from when you first launched to now? Yes, so, you know, we've had over 55,000 people go through the program, 600 industries, 141 countries. And when we first started the program, I think it was back in, gosh, 2010, social media wasn't anywhere near what it is right now. Most people were just on Facebook and Twitter, right? That was kind of the universe and a little bit of YouTube. I think one of the primary differences between then and now is massive overwhelm,
Starting point is 00:34:29 is people not understanding the fundamentals of what a long-term sustainable, profitable business really means and chasing after some of the sprinkles on the top. So for example, I'll often hear questions like, hey, Marie, I've got this idea for a new business. Should I just start an Instagram page? And how do I start getting clients? And Instagram is amazing. Social is amazing. But in my experience, people largely
Starting point is 00:34:54 underestimate the value and the ROI of something as simple as email marketing. And they say, well, email's dead. And I'm like, not if you look at the stats and not if you look at the return. So there was a study done by the Direct Marketing Association just back in 2019 that showed that for every $1 you invest in email, I think the return is either $42 or $43. Like I'll spend $1 to make $42 or $43 all day long. And people then often complain, well, there's so many emails and it just gets lost in spam and no one reads it. I'm like, because you're not doing it right. That's just the truth. Most of us will look at our email at least once a day, if not more. And from brands or humans that we actually trust and
Starting point is 00:35:34 who deliver value, we always open those emails. It's the people that do a shitty job, quite honestly, at their email marketing that we're like, I don't care about that. So I think the overwhelm factor, people kind of pay attention to the wrong things, people trying to be everywhere at once. I think that's something that's different between let's say 2009 and right now, merely because there's more platforms. And if we think about Instagram in and of itself,
Starting point is 00:35:58 it's a whole universe. Not only is there your grid post, but you could go live, stories, IGTV. Like there's just a million things to be done in that platform in and of itself. And then you multiply that out by four or five or six different platforms and forget about it. People feel completely overwhelmed, understandably so. I think that those are probably some of the main differences between when we started and
Starting point is 00:36:19 now. One of my jobs, especially in B-School, is to help people not exist in a world of overwhelm and to stay hyper-focused on their own strategy that will work if they actually just deploy it consistently. I think that goes for a lot of things where people might say, this is dead or this has been overdone. For example, let's say email challenges or webinars, whatever it is, per example. People know what I'm doing if I'm sending them to a free challenge.
Starting point is 00:36:44 And yeah, sure, but I opt in for free challenges and I know that there'll be an upsell and I'm excited. And it's all about if you have that messaging that connects the right person, none of it's really overdone. What do you think about text message marketing? I think it's interesting, but I still don't feel like it's going to replace email. I don't either. In terms of text message marketing, I'll tell you, I'm very, very weary of giving my own number to anyone, to any big box store or anything for those programs. I'm not that bullish on it like you. I feel like if there was a brand that I was really into and contextually, it made sense for them to be texting me. There was some time sensitive aspect that I really appreciated getting a text from them. Otherwise, it's annoying as hell.
Starting point is 00:37:26 So when I think through marketing strategies, one lens I try and look through is would I want to be marketed to in this way, right? Again, it's a very personal lens and people can argue for or against that that's a good or not good idea. But for me, if it doesn't feel good in my body, I don't wanna do that to my audience
Starting point is 00:37:45 or my clients or my customers. I'll tell you a way that we have used text message marketing, and that's been effective for us, is merely for helping people show up to a webinar. But they opt into that. It's like, hey, would you like a reminder that this is about to begin? Oh, yeah, I would. Great. That just in case I'm doing 17 other things, you reminded me about something I said yes
Starting point is 00:38:04 to that I said yes to that I actually wanted to show up on. So I think in that regard, it's great. But if I was getting text messages, we would never send out unless it was for a very specific contextual purpose that seemed to make sense for that particular marketing initiative. Yeah, I feel the same. And I think it's great when you are maybe text messaging your current clients to say, we're going live or we have this call. But I still am not fully on board. And I don't know if I'm going to be behind the wave, but I just love email so much. I feel like it's a great personal relationship, but it's not too intrusive. And I feel that way around social
Starting point is 00:38:38 media too. I'm obviously a big fan of Instagram and all those socials, but I still don't think, I think it's a rented audience and I still don't want to put all my eggs in that basket. Well, you absolutely hit the nail on the head. And that's my biggest piece of criticism when people just say, my entire business is built on social. I'm like, that's really dangerous because you're building your business on a platform that you don't own. And if people remember back to 2009 and 2010, Facebook essentially pulled off the biggest bait and switch in history, right? So if you think to that timeframe, everyone was being pushed to build up your Facebook fan page. And I don't even know if people listening will remember this time.
Starting point is 00:39:14 But during the Super Bowl, there was huge companies that spent millions of dollars driving traffic to their Facebook page for their fans. And then all of a sudden, Facebook changed the game, right? And they said, hey, all these fans that we told you that you could reach for free, no, I'm sorry. Now you're gonna have to pay for that privilege. And we watched organic reach plummet into the toilet. And now in order to reach the people
Starting point is 00:39:37 that already said they wanted to hear from you, you had to pay up. And we've seen that happen with Instagram, right? I remember sometimes when I go live and there's like that little note that says, a portion of your audience will be let known that you're going live. I'm like, why a portion? Why a portion? What's this about? Right? So it's just, if you really, really peel back and understand what's going on there, that's when you start to see how wise it is to invest in an asset you own, like your own opt-in
Starting point is 00:40:05 email list, and you understand how important it is to write copy subject lines, to really dial in your email marketing game, to make it as strong as possible, because that's where the highest ROI is. That's where you have the most control. And that's where you're going to get those long-term benefits. I love that. Yeah, completely agree. What about TikTok? Okay. A couple of things about TikTok. First of all, fun, right? Super, super fun. I remember when I was first introduced to the platform, my friend who introduced me said, hey, I just want to let you know, this is super highly addictive. You're going to get in there and it's going to be hours and you're going to be like, what the hell happened all my time? And then what did I just
Starting point is 00:40:39 what? What just happened? So I think TikTok is super fun. I will say I have suspicions from a privacy standpoint. I just do. It's been written up a lot. Privacy is another whole conversation. But there's just something that intuitively for me feels, I hate to use the word dangerous because that might be too strong of a word, but there's something that doesn't align for me.
Starting point is 00:41:03 Like there's something I can't get behind and I don't know if I'm able to articulate that, but I always trust my instincts when it comes to business. I think it's super fun. I think the demo is young, obviously getting a little older now as people are all kind of jumping on the TikTok band board. But I will say this, when everyone was going to Snapchat, they were like, Marie, you got to get on Snapchat, got to get on Snapchat, got to do it. And I was like, I just don't feel it. And then Instagram came out with all of the features that essentially mirrored that app. And I was like, see, that was awesome. I somewhat feel a little similarly when it comes to TikTok. If you're having fun there and it's allowing you to express yourself creatively and you're having a ball and
Starting point is 00:41:39 you're just seeing results, God bless. For me personally, I don't feel called to it at this moment. Maybe I'll change my mind in three months or six months, but I don't feel called to be there. How do you feel about it? I feel the same. I don't have an account yet and people keep telling me I need to get on it, but I'm also really wary of overwhelm. I feel like it's so easy to get overwhelmed by things. And I don't think that we would have been able to build up what we have on Instagram had we been doing Twitter and Facebook and everything else. We really focused on Instagram and email. And I'm kind of reluctant to ask my team to learn a whole new thing for me to start dancing and just things that I'm not familiar with. So I'm resisting. I have a feeling too,
Starting point is 00:42:18 I'm just not all in yet. But I don't know if I'll live to regret that. So we'll see. Yeah, I don't think so. I mean, I think what you guys have built is so strong. And I want to highlight what you said. You said we focused really on email and we focused really on Instagram and you didn't really put that much attention into Twitter and Facebook, right? And you saw massive results for your brand when it came to Instagram. So even that in and of itself tells you the power of focus, which I think is one of the most underrated traits, habits, and skills of entrepreneurs right now, the ability to focus, the ability to stay on something. And you alluded to this before with B-School. Having an online program that's grown the way that we've grown and been around for 11 years is like an anomaly in this world, right?
Starting point is 00:42:58 That's like decades. And it's because of our focus. And I've had so many people say, first of all, why are you not offering it five times a year? And you should be doing X, Y, and Z, and you're leaving so much money on the table. That's a little bit of that fear of missing out, right? The FOMS or FOMO, however you want to call it. But I will tell you, I trusted my instincts and my business is bigger and stronger than it's ever been defying what people were telling me you're going to miss out. So I think, you know, for yourself and for people listening,
Starting point is 00:43:26 I want everyone listening to develop this habit, the ability to trust your own instincts, the ability to trust, like even if maybe you're wrong, maybe it's not gonna put your business out. Like what if you're actually happier and more satisfied and doing better quality work in a way that you wanna do it rather than constantly chasing?
Starting point is 00:43:44 I think that chasing energy, that first of all, it feels horrible. It always feels like you're behind the eight ball. Second of all, I think to your point, stretching out your team, unless you're massively funded and you have a lot of time and space to just experiment and fall on your face, you don't want to do that to your team either. Yeah. I'm in full agreement with that. I think that focus element is so important. And like with B-School, you teach copy as well. And it's the kind of thing that one client can buy both. They both complement each other, but you're not introducing 10 new courses and being okay with leaving money on the table is really important.
Starting point is 00:44:18 Absolutely. Something I had to get used to when people would propose ideas, but you're leaving so much money on the table if you don't do that. And at one point, me and my business partner were like, let's just get okay with leaving money on the table. You always are. Absolutely. I mean, it's not all about the money. And obviously in business, I love money. I love making money. I make no apologies for that. It's awesome. But you have to integrate all these other ideals and goals as well, like the health of your team, fulfillment and satisfaction, creativity, space, the ability to not be like everyone else. That in and of itself, I think, is a huge asset.
Starting point is 00:44:51 So I want to encourage you guys to keep listening to those instincts because obviously they've been right on. And it also gives you more room to experiment, right? You know, if you're not filling up every single week with a promotion, if you're not promoting 17,000 things, and there's something that I think is important for people to hear, a confused mind always says no. If you have so many offers coming at someone and they have no idea how to delineate what they should say yes to, they're just going to close off and go away. I completely agree with you. So you've had 55,000
Starting point is 00:45:21 people through B-School. Yes. That's incredible. And it must really show what a robust program this is to have that many people go through. I think is incredible. Can you tell people a little bit more about it and what they can expect from this round of B-School? Absolutely. So B-School is our online business school for modern entrepreneurs who want to make money and make a difference. The reason I started it was because when I started my business and I was looking out
Starting point is 00:45:42 into the marketplace and going to seminars and conferences and trying to get educated about business to understand how all this works, again, 1999, the context of online business was basically non-existent at that point. And everything I ran into was super aggressive. And honestly, it was very male-dominated and people would talk about customers like they were nothing more than numbers on the bottom of their balance sheet. It was like, let's extract as much profit as possible. And there was like highlighters and flashing red arrows. It was horrible. There was no style. There was no sense of soul. There was no sense of humor. And it didn't seem like it was delivered in a way that was aligned with your values and your heart. And most people that I knew, their desire to not just make money in what they were doing,
Starting point is 00:46:21 but actually make a positive impact. I'm like, no one's talking about this. So B-School really teaches people how to master the art and science of effective sales and marketing in a modern way. Because I found that for many creatives, when it comes to the sales and marketing side, they just want to be the idea person, right? They just want to be the creative. They just want to share. But when it comes down to brass tacks and understanding how to convert and understanding all the metrics behind that and the art and science of getting someone to say yes, they're like, oh, I don't want to be a used car salesman, or I don't want to be slimy or aggressive or manipulative. And I'm like, look, when you're practicing modern marketing, which is what we train you to do in B-School,
Starting point is 00:46:56 the best of your humanity comes out not the worst. Your generosity, your empathy, your compassion, transparency, massive creativity, so much good stuff, all the best of you. So B-School really teaches people how to identify who their ideal customers are and your customers aren't everyone. That's a big mistake people make. Then it really teaches you how to create products and services that practically sell themselves. It teaches you how to own your worth and how to price your products so that you can reach both your financial goals, but also your impact goals as well. So there are six modules. We release it over eight weeks.
Starting point is 00:47:30 We have what's called B-School Mentor Coaches because the program is so powerful, but oftentimes people just are like, okay, this is a great idea. How do I apply this to my specific situation. And so B-School mentor coaches are other successful entrepreneurs who have been through the program who actually come back with specific disciplines around design and tech, product-based businesses, if you're selling something physical, copywriting, thinking through e-commerce. There's the kind of hard numbers business side of it. We have so many different coaches with different disciplines that are in there helping people move through the program. It's amazing.
Starting point is 00:48:09 And then for this round, there's more B-School mentor coaches than we've ever had. Team Forleo is expanded. I think one thing I want to emphasize about the program is once you're a B-Schooler, you're a B-Schooler for life. So people that took the program back in 2010, they can come back and take it for free. They never have to pay again. And every time we upgrade anything, you get all of those upgrades for life. Because as you know, you can't build a business in eight weeks, right? I had one person that did that. In all of my years, I had one person that came in the program, no business. After eight weeks, she had clients and her product-based business was like in the
Starting point is 00:48:38 practice stage. It was amazing. She kind of blew my mind. But those are some of kind of the key factors about B-School. It is truly transformative. And what about industry-wise? Is it just for people who are in the knowledge. She was super passionate about whitewater rafting. It was kind of a hobby for her, but she felt like she could turn it into a business. So she came through the program. She put everything that we taught her into action. She worked her buns off. She now runs a seven-figure rafting company that's only open four months out of the year. It's incredible. So in terms of industries, it's everything under the sun. Woodworkers, app makers, of course, coaches and consultants and people in the knowledge side, but then also people in the physical products-based side, the e-com side, you name it, we've had it through our doors.
Starting point is 00:49:40 And what about if someone is kind of going back to what you were saying at the beginning, they are in a job, but they got that voice in their head like, this just isn't lighting my soul up. Right. But they don't know what that thing is. Sure. Is that too early for them to join B-School? I don't think so.
Starting point is 00:49:53 If you know in your heart that you want to do something probably on your own or that you may want to be a part of a startup, you may want to work in not a big corporation, but more of an entrepreneurial environment. So as a part of B-School, we have a program called Start the Right Business that I actually designed specifically for those people who are like, my goodness, I know I want to do something. And either I have too many ideas and I don't know which one to pick, or I don't have an idea. How do I come up with ideas and then validate and vet and test them so I know if they will actually come to fruition.
Starting point is 00:50:26 So that program, Start the Right Business, is one that people get immediately when they register. And it walks you through all of those different scenarios so that you can brainstorm viable business ideas if you have too many that you can learn how to whittle them down. This is especially important for multi-passionate entrepreneurs like me. And then it walks you through the exact steps to take so you don't get overwhelmed, but you can actually get into the marketplace as quickly as possible with spending as least money as possible to test and validate your idea so you can take it ahead.
Starting point is 00:50:55 I love that. One thing I hear a lot from people who are in the early stages of their business is they're kind of nervous to take an online course because the idea of funnels and tech and copywriting is really overwhelming and scary, which I totally get because it was for me in the beginning. What about people like that that are on the fence and just like, oh, I don't want to be thrown into this and be expected to be a tech guru? Oh, of course. Well, a couple of things. One, where we are right now in terms of technology is better than it's ever been. So things are more plug and play than they have ever been before. We have within the program itself, so many brilliant,
Starting point is 00:51:30 and they're all brand new for this year, tech trainings and tutorials, like step-by-step for some of the most fundamental things that every business owner should know. But the other piece of the puzzle is this, there's only two options when it comes to technology in your business, and this is just a good lesson. It's not about your aptitude when it comes to technology. It's
Starting point is 00:51:49 about your attitude. So either you're going to do it yourself and you're going to learn, everything is figureoutable, nothing is that hard, or you need to hire it out. And if you're going to hire it out, you need to understand a baseline of fundamentals on how to hire it out so you don't get taken advantage of and that you don't overpay, that you're able to understand a baseline of fundamentals on how to hire it out so you don't get taken advantage of and that you don't overpay, that you're able to understand how to manage someone who you're hiring to handle your tech stuff so that it actually gets done in a way that's cost effective for you. And there's a lot of red flags that we save people from. There's especially the whole conversation around websites. Oh my
Starting point is 00:52:26 goodness, I've had so many people say to me, I wish I would have taken B-School before I spent X thousands of dollars on this pretty website that doesn't even convert, that doesn't do anything. So if you are in that position of being nervous, first of all, you don't have to be. We hold your hand through all of it. Second, you have lifetime access to the program. So you're not going to be forced to go at a pace that's faster than what you need. And I would say third of all, there's no better place to learn, I think, than from us specifically on those two pieces because we make it fun. We break it down and we keep it really simple.
Starting point is 00:53:00 And we have the coaching and the support to help you at every step of the way so you don't get stuck. I love that. And I actually have a lot of friends that have taken B-School and they took it way back when and have credited it with getting their coaching business off the ground and starting to get clients and so I know firsthand how amazing it is and I really really love that idea of breaking it down because I think sometimes that can be so overwhelming. Yes. And I love that you mentioned the website thing a lot of people think they need these amazing websites and logos and everything. Yes. Polished before they launch. And it's just not the case. I think just get some clients and test and feel into it. I mean, I didn't have a logo until a couple of years ago and I'd been running the
Starting point is 00:53:37 business for a long time. Yes. I made it on paint, if you remember paint. Yes, of course I do. I was just typed out on paint and it worked and it didn't. It didn't. It might have turned some people away, but it didn't really. Not at all. And I think that's the thing. It's thinking about what your minimal viable product is and how you get your idea off the ground, how you test it, how you make money. And then and with courses, you can always go back to them and say, OK, I see that fancy thing. I'm going to implement it now when you don't have to do everything right away. Correct. I mean, we're big believers. I wrote about this in the book. Everything is figureoutable. You have to start before you're ready. And we do an excellent job of teaching people to focus on what really matters and kind of ignore what doesn't. I call those things logos and the
Starting point is 00:54:17 shiny objects and the perfect pictures or the perfect website. Many times those are creative cul-de-sacs. It's like, oh, what should I call my business? And people spend like three months trying to come up with a name. I'm like, who cares? Let's just get a client. How about that? So we keep people focused on the metrics that matter, which are getting that minimum viable product out, testing things, experimenting, getting momentum, because once you have that momentum, everything else will take care of itself. I love that. So for anyone interested, I'm going to put all the links below for B-School if you want to check it out. I would love to just recap on a couple of things you said.
Starting point is 00:54:49 You were mentioning Slack, Asana, the Google Suite. I would love to know what tools you use in the back end of your business that make your life so much easier. So for me, they're really simple things. I live and breathe in Google Docs. In terms of the back end, I will tell you, our tech stack has probably gotten pretty complicated at this point, and I don't touch any of that anymore, which is a very good thing. Our main websites are built on WordPress, but they're so tricked out. And in terms of simple apps that I use, honestly, it's like the little
Starting point is 00:55:19 plan only app with Instagram, especially because I'm here on the West Coast and I like to post things from my East Coasters. So to be able to post early, it sounds so simple, but there are little things like that that make my life a hell of a lot easier. I'm trying to think if there's any other tech things that I use. We talked about the Oura Ring. That's kind of more on the personal side, but I keep it super simple and basic. People are like, oh, do you use a certain kind of planner? I'm like, you know what my planner is? It is a little college-rolled notebook that I get from the grocery store for $1.95. Really? It's like, it doesn't need to be fancy. I just need to write down clearly what I need to focus on, and that gets it done. So I would encourage people, whenever you find yourself
Starting point is 00:55:58 trying to search for an app or technology, again, this is away from a CRM or something more serious, but on the personal side, if you're looking for something that's going to save your life in terms of an app, I certainly haven't found it. I keep it simple. Yeah. Planoly is a game changer, right? I live with Planoly. I love that. Well, thank you so much for being on the podcast. Thank you for having me. It was a joy. If you loved this episode, please subscribe subscribe download a few more and please leave us a review i really want to hear what you enjoyed what your main takeaways were and i also want to know what you want to hear us talk about next to say thanks for leaving us a review we'll send you a copy of
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