the bossbabe podcast - 88. How to Nail your Niche with Celebrity Brow Artist Kelly Baker

Episode Date: April 6, 2020

We’re joined by Kelley Baker, Founder of Kelley Baker Beauty and renowned celebrity brow artist. Featured in VOGUE, InStyle, PopSugar and Cosmopolitan, Kelley is one of the most sought after arch artists in the industry with an impressive clientele of celebrities including Kim Kardashian, Kylie Jenner, Ariana Grande, Zendaya, and more. Kelley shares her personal journey of how she worked her way up in the industry and what it took to expand her brand from a humble salon in Venice Beach to developing innovative beauty products and hosting masterclasses worldwide. If you dream of being your own boss or want to start your own brand, this episode is full of actionable takeaways that will inspire you to take the leap.    Receive 20% off Grammarly Premium when you sign up at Grammarly.com/BOSSBABE

If they only knew that being able to show up, do their work, have their appointments booked, have the salon pretty and go home and enjoy their life and their family and friends, that's like true love right there. It's about teaching people and showing people the good things. Welcome to the Boss Babe podcast, a place where we share with you the real behind the scenes of building successful businesses, achieving peak performance, and learning how to balance it all. I'm Danielle Canty, president and co-founder of Boss Babe. And in this episode, I'm actually joined by my business bestie, Natalie Ellis, our CEO, because today we are interviewing celebrity brow artist Kelly Baker. Now Kelly

is actually a dear friend of ours and the definition of a true boss babe and today she takes us through her story on how she turned her passion into a multi-million dollar empire. Now for a lot of you who are into makeup the name Kelly Baker is pretty notorious because she is huge in the beauty industry and she has worked with some of the biggest names in Hollywood and when I say big names I mean the biggest of names and you're definitely going to hear some name drops throughout this interview but not only is she a brow artist she's also a product developer and an expert in social media marketing. So you are going to learn so much, particularly on how Kelly was actually able to grow her brand by posting pictures and videos

of her clients and really leveraging the power of Instagram. Now, we always promise you the real behind the scenes. That's what this podcast is all about, right? And this interview certainly is no different. And we actually get really real and raw with Kelly and you'll hear how we touch on the highs, but also the lows that come with being a female entrepreneur. And so what we really love about this interview is how transparent and vulnerable Kelly was. And it just warmed us from the core. And we're really excited for you to hear that raw journey but also how she's overcome it and some of the obstacles that have stood in her way but she has conquered. We really enjoyed this interview and we hope you do too so as always take a screenshot and share your biggest takeaways on

instastories tagging me at daniellecanti at iamnatalie and at bossbabe.inc so let's go ahead and dive right in. A boss babe is unapologetically ambitious and paves the way for herself and other women to rise. Keep going and fighting on. She is on a mission to be her best self in all areas. It's just believing in yourself. Confidently stepping outside her comfort zone to create her own vision of success. Welcome to the podcast. Thanks for having me. I'm excited to finally be here.

I know. It's been a long time coming and I feel like we have so much to cover. So I want to dive in and just ask how on earth did you get started? Like what was that light bulb moment for you when you realized you were basically a brow guru? I want to say that. Oh, gosh. Well, I mean, I'm from LA, born and raised, and I've always loved makeup and I've always loved all things beautiful, but I'm also 41. So with Instagram, obviously things have blossomed and boomed and taken things to the next level. But I've been on this journey for a really long time before Instagram was around. And because

of Instagram, everything always looks bigger and better and more amazing. But I mean, I've been in the beauty industry since high school, I would say, honestly. Like straight out of high school, I was like, actually in high school, I'd be doing my friend's makeup. That was my first love. My first passion was makeup only. And I did makeup right after high school for any independent film, photo shoots, like all kinds of things. But none of it had my interest. I have total like ADD, OCD, sitting on a movie set, reading a script, killed me. And all the craft service, not into it. I think, you know, I just really tried to do anything I could to stay in that zone and

in my like makeup space. So then I actually worked right across the street from where we're at, at Macy's. And I worked in the beauty department. And I worked there for a couple years. And at the time, I had a boyfriend who said, you need to get your shit together. Who I did. I mean, I thought I did. But I was young.

And he was in law school. So for him, I meant really do this. So I decided to go to beauty school. And the reason why is because in LA, every state is different, but in Los Angeles, you have to have a license to do makeup in a salon, which is crazy. Wow. Just to do makeup. Then, I don't know if it's changed. So I went just for that. I went to just get my license so I could, in my head, I thought I'll do makeup in a salon like Beverly Hills.

That was the goal. In my class, I met a man named Damone Roberts. I talk about him all the time. He is known as the brow king. He worked for Anastasia. So it's her, him, and then I would say myself. I had no idea who he was. He had tons of celebrity clients. He had already done Madonna. I mean, he was very well known. He was about to open his first salon and I was probably maybe 24 and it was crazy. There was even a woman who had come in who now has a brow line of her own who was filming a documentary on him because she was so amazed at how crazy this trend was. This is almost 20 years ago. Okay. And I was like, who is this guy? This is crazy. I've never heard of him. I'm from here. So she had asked him, do you have people who you're

going to hire, who's going to work for you? And he's like, I'm going to take Kelly. And I was like, oh my God. He's like, she's the golden child. I'm like, mom, I'm the golden child. I'm the one. But I also was always a go-getter and still am. So I think that's what's really helped me because anything I want to do, I'm going to get my way in there somehow. So even with Damone, well, not even with Damone, with beauty school, I would try to figure out how I could get out faster. And they said, if you go to this class or go to this demo or go to a beauty show, you'll get extra credit. So everything I've always done has been like that.

And Damone witnessed that. So that's why he was like, I like her. She's on it. I actually really wanted to just touch on that point because I think there's a lot to be taken away from that. The fact that, one, you've been in the industry so long. And I think a lot of people look at social media and go, oh, overnight success, right? But actually you've been building up. And the other thing that I really take away from that is that you've shown up at every single stage yeah nothing has been like you've

always tried to do that extra mile oh my god and I think that really stands out when like you say you're picked up or your people look to mentor you because they see something in you and I always when we're talking about hiring and building our team we always look at attitude and I think it's one of the things that people forget and attitude as an entrepreneur is so, so important. So I love that you're sharing that and just saying, actually, this is what I had to do to get here. Right. And I think the only curse for us these days because of social media is people think it's easy. And they expect it to be easy and they want from you faster and they want it today. They don't realize that I've done this for a really long time.

Or the people that you hire want it today. They don't realize that I've done this for a really long time. Or the people that you hire want it tomorrow. So I know hiring people, that's tough, man. I mean, I wear my heart on my sleeve and everyone I'm always going to give a chance to, but everyone's always going to be on their best behavior in an interview. It's like a date, right? Well, I want to come back to hiring because I want to pick your brain in it because I know we've chatted about it before, but I'm bored and I need more of the story. So 100%. So I went and worked for Damone. I only said that because she said hiring. So I went and worked for Damone. I was there for about two years. That's when, I mean, he was already doing celebrities. We were doing like Oscar suites and all of those fun things. And one of the questions I get asked all the time, and I'm embarrassed to say that I don't actually know the answer, is who was my first celebrity?

I don't actually remember. And I know that sounds so lame, but I don't. I want to say it was Dana Devin, who was then the host of Extra. Okay. And now she is a news anchor. What was that like for you being thrown into this world and starting to work on celebrities? And did you feel like you were starting to get momentum in your career? Definitely. I mean, again, one of the things I teach classes and one of the things that I teach is to build relationships with people. Everyone

that came in, I would talk to. I still do. What's your name? How do you hear about us? Where do you live? What do you do? Because one, there's so many people and I'm trying to remember something about them and build a connection with them. And those questions are actually really important in our life and if we're trying to build a career of any kind. One of my favorites is the what do you do part, right? So in that one time I asked a client, what do you do? And she said, I work for HBO. And I said, doing what? And she said, I am a talent manager. So well, what does that mean? I don't know what that means, right? So, I just keep going. Just ask questions. Just keep asking questions. And she goes, I book makeup artists for red carpet events. I was like, oh my God, this is it. I'm like, so I do makeup

because she came in for her brows, right? I had already had my own place at this point and we were popular. I said, I do makeup. So, if you ever want a makeup artist that's not with an agency, let me know. And she's like, oh, that would be amazing. It's so hard to hire through an agency. A week later, I got booked and I did three seasons of red carpet for Game of Thrones. Wow. Had never watched the show, knew nothing about it. Got to do Michael Douglas for when he won Golden Globe or an Emmy for when he played Liberace I think it's so important just to talk to people because if I

hadn't asked for anything I would have never gotten that job yeah and I can totally speak to that because I remember the first time I came in to get my brows done for you by the way my brows were just looked amazing I was yeah but I felt like I'd known you forever we just I lay on the chair and we started talking and I felt like I knew forever and I was like instantly like she's my friend and it was so nice and you don't get that often I think that's such a skill to have when someone's lying in your chair to be able to make them feel so comfortable and walk out of that because you're quick 20-30 minutes you walk out of that room feeling like you've just made a friend I think in any industry anywhere you go it's really important to do that.

And my main thing to tell my girls at the salon is be nice to everyone that walks in here. Everyone. I don't care who they are, right? One, I don't care how much money you have. It doesn't matter. But it's super intimidating to walk into a salon or your new job or a new office building, right? So just by looking at them and making eye contact, you feel better. And I remember when I was 25 and I worked at Damone's or even at Macy's at 20, no one looks at you or talks to you. So why am I going to

want to buy anything from you if I don't feel comfortable even approaching you? And I think we've been through this era where online connection has been really important, but people really want that offline connection still. And actually just, I think it's a skill set that a few people have kind of lost along the way. And actually just bringing it back to that, we used to have the same when we were, when I was a chiropractor, it was always like, you treat people like you would want your mum treated, like anyone who came in. It was like, if you treat everyone like they're, you know, like a member of your family, or you're speaking to them how you would like to be spoken to. It's just really, really important.

But part of your story, I feel like we've kind of skimmed over and I just wanted to bring it back to. So you're being mentored by Daman. What did that transition look like from being mentored by him and then actually setting up on your own? The only reason why I left was because I was pregnant. I was going to have a baby. And to be honest, Beverly Hills is not my favorite place. I think obviously it's a cool place and a great place to start, but not everyone's that nice. It's very pretentious and people where I'm at in Venice have just as much money, but they're nicer and they're cooler. You have the best location. You really do. But really, it was just because one of the reasons why I love my industry is that we get to make our own schedule.

Come and go as you please, technically, right? You're supposed to. And at the time when I worked for him, I was the only one that was going to be having a baby. So I knew like that wasn't part of, wasn't going to work for my schedule in my life. I wanted to, in my head I had, I'm going to stay home for a year. Don't know why. I mean, I did it and I was like, take me back sooner. It's so hard.

You know, like it's not an office job. I could never survive an office job. Like I'm an artist. So I just decided to stay home. And then after that, I decided to not go back because I didn't want to be in that atmosphere where I had to work at certain hours because I had a boss. And that's actually a tricky thing too, because people always ask me to talk about how to be a boss. And that is what I am. But at the same time, I would be perfectly okay having a boss as long

as they were cool. You know what I mean? So not saying that Jamon wasn't cool, but he had certain expectations of me, and me having a baby just wasn't the fit anymore. So when I am teaching people and I'm like, the goal, everyone wants to do their own thing and start their own business, but at the same time, it's really effing hard, and it's not easy, and everyone thinks the grass is greener, and I'm going to go open my own place. I'm like, okay. So I really was trying to be in the beauty industry. There's all kinds of like NDAs and contracts and miles of where you can and can work. And at the time I had one and it said

that I couldn't work within so many miles. So I followed it. I've always followed the rules. In lawyer terms, I follow the rules. All the other rules I break. But if I'm going to get sued, I follow them. That's a good rule to follow. Yes. Yeah, I like that. If it's a yellow-red light, I'll probably cross it. But anything that has to do with court, I follow that to the T. Great advice from Kelly.

If you take anything away from this, don't get sued. Yeah. So I decided to go to Venice, which is where I lived. I grew up in Venice. I love it over there. I ended up working in a hair salon, a nice high-end beautiful salon as the one brow girl. And I was their employee. And I already had my own clientele from people coming.

But I also just wanted just to be in my own space, really. And I worked there for two years. And then I worked at another salon down the street for another two years, and this was Abbott Kinney. Abbott Kinney, gosh, my son's 14, 12 years ago, when it was like OG cool, like before the hipsters. Sorry, hipsters, but seriously. Now you can't even drive down the street.

Like I said, I worked at another hair salon, and it just wasn't like, again, I've always been a good girl. There was a lot of sex, drugs, and rock and roll and craziness. And I was the mom with a kid and single. And I was like, it's just not like I have a place where I can have my clients, but I really just need to like, just have, I never wanted a salon. Like I truly never wanted to open a salon. And I almost feel like ungrateful for saying that, but it was not in my vision. Like it was not something I wanted. I just wanted a little space that I could make pretty because I like pretty things and decorate it how I want to and not have the cattiness of crazy girls everywhere.

I mean, your space is absolutely beautiful. Thank you. Like it really is. It's an experience to go there. And the girls make fun of me because they see me moving things around and I tell them, don't get offended. Like this is me just having OCD and making sure it looks good there's pretty much nothing out of place yeah even the toilet paper in the bathroom yeah and I notice those things I know Danielle's

about to sit to mention that I feel like that's like Natalie without office I come in and she's like move the desk I want the desks moved I'm like okay and I'm just more like I'm just going on with it yeah if something's not turned the right way I'm moving it like, I'm just getting on with it. Yeah, if something's not turned the right way, I'm moving it. Like, no, I'm the same. Are you a Virgo? No, I'm a Capricorn. But I'm a creative. Like, that's just me. Like, I love that. Yeah.

Like, my work is my art. I really feel like so my space around me has to reflect that so I can be more organized. Okay, so you didn't really want to have a salon. You wanted to have a space. You were a single mum at the time. Yeah. That must have been really difficult to start to expand and go out on your own. It must be pretty scary. I've never, honestly, I can't say scary is the word for me. Okay. I've always just been like, I'm going to do it. And my dad was a

successful businessman who hustled his ass off. And my mom was a secretary, an executive secretary who worked for the Gettys, right? So I had the combination of them. My mom says no to everything. I love her already. It drives me bonkers. But I'm still going to do it. So you might as well not say no, because I'm going anyways, right? So really, the truth is, the second salon that I worked at, there was one girl that I loved, and she got fired. And I left, I walked out crying. I called my mom.

I'm like, oh my God, my friend just got fired. She's like the only person I like here. No offense to the girls if they ever hear this, but she was the one that like I had a connection with, you know? And I walked down the street on Abbot Kinney. These were all on Abbot Kinney. And I said, I got to find a place. I got to figure out what to do.

And literally across the street was a building, my old salon. And there was a sign that said for lease. And I'm like, there's a place right there. I'm calling it. And that was it. That was where I went. Like I've always, always, always in my soul. Like someone said the other day, like, well, how do you start? I'm like, you just start. You look online, you Google beauty school, you look up whatever it is you're interested. If you don't start looking, you're never going to get anywhere. And I think that's just a really clear message as well, isn't it? It's just the action taking.

And I think there's sometimes some blind naivety when you go into entrepreneurship for some people. Like, yeah, I'm just going to do it. But also it just like rather than thinking about it and sometimes we think, oh, everything has to be perfect, everything has to line up. It doesn't because it's never going to. if you wait for that moment you won't do anything it's more around just going okay well there's this opportunity like in my heart this is what I want to do and I'm determined to make that happen and I'm just going to do it when we're going to think about it jump in two feet first my dad's famous quote was you know get your ducks in a row and those goddamn ducks man so it is super important to try to get your ducks in the row as

much as you can. Because yes, of course, you have certain, right? She's like, Natalie's dying. It's the truth though. But so there are certain things you have to do. But in general, you can't wait for everything to be perfect because it's not going to be and you'll be waiting forever. You can guarantee one of those ducks is going to run off.

Every day I have a duck swerving to the left. And I'm like, let me get that sucker back in line over here you can't trust the ducks that's the quote you can't trust the duck so I think there's a lot of things that have made you incredibly successful and we've talked about some of them but one of them it's I don't want to gloss over this you have not just done brows the way brows have always been done right like you are not just following the status quo and doing a really good job you're very innovative like you said you're an artist and you have created your own signature look that is world famous where did that come from well I mean honestly I learned it from Damone initially but you know I learned the technique from him but we all take things

our way and interpret it how we see it right so my main thing was to be able to show people how to do it themselves so with products I would take his products right and I'd hide in the back room and I'd cut it to how I liked it so if it was an angle brush like my angle brush right now that like you have yeah I would go back and I'd cut it smaller and then I'd come out and I'd sell it to you because if you go home and use something that doesn't work, you're never going to buy something from me again. Yeah, and you actually gave me a lesson on how to use everything because when you first gave me the tools, I was like really overwhelmed

and you showed me how to use it. And I was just blown away by the intricacies and what you can actually do with brows. Well, that's what's really cool about it. So with the brows, the same thing is I like to do what's natural. And if you want it more enhanced and defined, we can do that too. But just in general, if I go into a hair salon, I never know how to recreate that. So one, earlier, going into a place is super intimidating. Say hi, be nice to them. Two, when you're getting something done, show them how to do it. How do I, I've gone

to the dry bar 9 million times and like once a guy said, hey, have you used this spray? And I have my own products in a salon and I said no and I bought it. Like it's literally that easy. Like you have to show people how to do things because they're intimidated otherwise. So I've made it to where products are super easy for people and also the reason why we have a known look is because of Instagram. I used to post when Instagram first started before and after photos of brows. So one, I was trying to get people to see my work, know that I'm good and see the before and after. That was one part of it.

The second part was then I had the product. So one, I'd invite you and Natalie. That's my one sale that I'm trying to close, right? And then the next one is that I'm going to give you the products. So one, I'd invite you and Natalie. That's my one sale that I'm trying to close, right? And then the next one is that I'm going to give you my products so that I have two sides that I'm working. And I'm not even really working it, but that is what I do. And I've been able to create this as business and I love it, you know? I just want to mention around that because I think that sometimes people, and we see this a lot in our communities, they feel embarrassed to sell their products. But actually, I think you're doing a disservice to your clients if you're not selling them the best products.

Because you've created them and you know they're amazing. On that, I have to say, I'm sorry, every girl that works in my salon, I say, do not push products. There's a way to do it. Yeah, oh, completely. But it's interesting, isn't it? Because a lot of people want to know about them. And sometimes if you're like, oh, yeah, look, you can use this and it's available. So the way we do it, and I'm goingj everyone let's go let's go you better write this one down and save it for

every single client so every single person that comes in that's new and if they've never seen it before when i'm done with them i hand them a mirror and say do you want to watch me fill them in that's it you did that to me that's the sale like. Like that. It worked. I was like, yeah. So you're watching what I just did. And I'm teaching you. I'm showing you. First, we highlight. Then we brush up.

Then we film with pencil. And this is where we're doing it. And next time, it's going to look like this. So now I'm telling you about next time, right, to get you to come back. Which is funny because I've actually never said this out loud. So, you know, I hope everyone knows how to book people. You are a genius. Can I just say that?

In my head, I've literally never said this out loud before, right I hope everyone knows how to book people you are a genius but this is just in my head I've literally never said this out loud before right so this is my thinking so we're gonna have you come back in three weeks this is what you're gonna use this is how you do it I don't say do you want to buy anything you say to me it just literally comes out of your mouth can I buy that do you sell that can I get that today I think it's what you're talking about too because when you handed me the mirror and you started going at it, I was looking at it like, wow, I could do this myself, which disclaimer,

I could not do it myself the way you did it. I got close. I've had 20 years of practice. Yeah, I got it looking good, but it was, you just did it in such a way. I was literally watching myself just transform. And I'm like, give me everything you've got. And like, I just didn't get close to it,

but I saw how you did it and it gave didn't just didn't get close to it but I saw how you did it and it gave me more confidence in doing it but that is genius so by with even doing that all of my products I'm 100% involved in if I don't think it's perfect you'll never see it I don't want to sell anything just to sell it it has to be good it has to be something you like and my you know my highlighter pencil right people post all time, like a nub of it. Like, this is all I have left. Like, it's good. It's good products. It's good stuff. And with that being said, since my clients then trust me from those things, they ask me for advice on everything. As a beauty therapist, my favorite one ever, my client was like, so where should I get married? Should I get married in Catalina or Palm Springs? And I'm like, definitely Palm Springs. We're not doing Catalina. But, sorry. But no,

but they trust you and they want your opinion and they value it, right? So like, what OB do you go to? Where should I go for this? Where should I go for that? And I literally am like walking yellow pages of everything. I tell people where to get glasses, where to go for their hair, go here for nails. This is my son's tutor. Like, but that's also me too. Like I enjoy doing that stuff, but I'm trying to build all my friends, but it's about teaching people and showing people the good things. Let's take a quick pause to talk about my new favorite all-in-one platform, Kajabi. You know, I've been singing their praises lately because they have helped our business run so much smoother and with way less complexity which I love. Not to mention our team couldn't be happier because now everything

is in one place so it makes collecting data, creating pages, collecting payment, all the things so much simpler. One of our mottos at Boss Babe is simplify to amplify and Kajabi has really helped us do that this year. So of course I needed to share it here with you. It's the perfect time of year to do a bit of spring cleaning in your business, you know, get rid of the complexity and instead really focus on getting organized and making things as smooth as possible. I definitely recommend Kajabi to all of my clients and students. So if you're listening and haven't checked out Kajabi yet, now is the perfect time to do so because they are offering Boss Babe listeners a 30-day free trial. Go to kajabi.com slash Boss

Babe to claim your 30-day free trial. That's kajabi.com slash Boss Babe. And that's real influence, right? Like when we talk about being an influencer and that kind of thing, what you're talking about is real influence. It's doing it from a good place. It's being authentic. It's being consistent and having those results. And I also just want to mention about products and then I'll let you jump in. But I remember being at your salon and you were saying,

oh, I'm testing out a growth serum right now. It's not for sale, but look, look what it's doing. And I remember like I could see the difference. And I was like, wow, she really, really does test these. We've been working on that growth serum for years. Yeah. And I'm the dummy. I'm like the crash test dummy. So I put it on myself. like wow she really really does test these we've been working on that gross for years yeah and i'm the dummy i'm like the crash test dummy so i put it on myself if i don't see results we're not making

it yeah it's crazy a lot of people lose track of sometimes and it's like when you care so much i think care is like the big thing that comes across that you care about your clients that's why you give them those bits of advice that's why you kind of say yeah go do this and it might not even be related to the browse i think that's just something that again like anyone listening to I think is a really instrumental piece and what makes a big takes the business from being okay to amazing and why people refer and why people come back over and over again when you kind of lead with that authenticity that you do Kelly I think that's when the game changes happen that's when you get the clients that you do get because you have that reputation because people know you're authentic and people know what they

can expect from you their level of service that they can expect yeah I mean it's tough I mean I'm definitely a miscare bear and sometimes it's hard because you know I do it because I want to do it I want to help everyone but it also like not everyone appreciates it yeah I think we should touch on that do you want to share a little bit more around that piece? Sorry. I'm sorry. I think it's just tough, you know. People don't like, not everyone obviously, but like,

I mean my goal at the end of the day is to help everyone, right? But there's so many people that come along that journey and just snatch whatever they can. And recently someone, you know, I have had at least 12 people that I've taught and trained and left and not, you know, I'm totally okay with that. As long as people are respectful, I don't care. Go for it. You want to open a slot? Have fun. You know, here's some of my products. Good luck. Like it's hard. And this one doesn't make me upset, but an example is there's a girl who's teaching and training classes and two of the girls that I work that I've hired recently actually took her training class. I'm like,

that's funny. Is it like mine? And they were like, yeah, it's 100% the same thing, which is fine. It is what it is, right? Because I'm sure there's people that are trying to do what you guys are doing. That's part of life. And then she said that I had fired her because she was taking away my limelight, right? And I was like, that's just not true. I would do anything to make someone successful, right? I send my girls to my celebrity's house all the time. But you have to be a good person. You have to know not to take pictures.

Like, I have to trust you. And with this person in particular, she was just not responsible. So people get things crossed over. And I actually, in my head, I'm like, I want to tell her that is not true. Like, she would call out sick. She had a flat tire. Like, the craziest stories ever. And I was like, I wish I could have kept her because she was great.

She really was great. But she has no work ethic at all. Zero. So it's just hard when you take people and you do everything in your power to make someone good I have no control over what these people are going to do with that you know and you can only hope I'm such a sensitive person it's horrible but well I think this yeah this is exactly the realness of being the entrepreneur and being the boss and also this is why you're successful, because you do care this much.

That's the thing. And it's one thing you always say about when you're a chiropractor, too. Like, you always out-cared the competition. And it might not always be, like, the most glamorous thing to look at, but that is so important. And I think it's really nice that you're sharing that, Kelly, because actually hearing this side of it, and this is what the authentic truth of us being an entrepreneur is right and having a business and actually yeah it is really hard and sometimes you can give everything and still you care yeah you know that the words to describe it but you get like that kick in the you know to a short everyone's like yeah it really is

a kick in the gut it truly is it's like again I'd never wanted to open a salon. It was not my dream. Like it still isn't. It's hard. Every single day it's hard. But I am now in charge of 15 people, at least income and life. That's just at the shop alone. And I am good at certain things. I'm good at booking. I'm good at people getting in. I'm good at that stuff, but it's not fun. Like if I could leave tomorrow and just not have to deal with it, I would honestly, truly, because my goal was not to manage people and make sure everyone's okay. And I try every day to like kill it and give them people and teach them things. And if, hey, if you girls aren't posting, I can only tell you so many times how to grow your business, how to grow your page. And if it doesn't happen, it's not my problem anymore. But then people get pissed. They're like, you didn't post me. I'm

like, you know what? It's a tough place to be in because like me, I am the artist. I'm now only in the salon one day. I left for a while. I had to get out of the space and get away from like all the questions and things going on. But I also have to make sure that it's running and we have a product line and I have classes and I have a son. There's a lot of different things going on, but I also have to make sure that it's running and we have a product line and I have classes and I have a son. There's a lot of different things going on every single day. So when people say things like, I want to open a salon, I truly, without being negative, want to say, why do you want to open a salon? What is your desire? Why do you think that this is it for you? Right? Because I don't know anyone that has a salon that actually makes money. We all just get bought, like we can pay our rent and

everyone's, it's still working, but we're not making money from it. We're not rich, right? I have nine other things that I'm doing on the side to help grow and build all of us. And I think a lot of times people think that if they open a salon, they're successful. That is the definition of successful. I'm going to do it too. If they only knew that being able to show up, do their work, have their appointments booked, have the salon pretty and go home and enjoy their life and their family and friends, that's like true love right there. Yeah, I love that you talked about that because I think it's so important that people know their why and know why they're doing any of this and are not clear. And I also love that you mentioned all these other things you do because it's not just in LA, like we were talking about before you came on, you are traveling constantly, you teach in Australia, Ireland,

you teach all around the world and you have salons actually doing your style of brows all over the world, right? So again, that all happened organically as well, just like the salon. So with the salon part, people started emailing, DMing me, saying, can I work here? That's how it turned into a salon. My first space was two chairs.

We worked there for about four years, super small. We waited, I waited. I knew one day someone's going to leave this place. The girl next door left. I knocked down her wall, took over her lease, added two more chairs. We had a total of four chairs. Them rotating. Grew out of that space.

Had people standing in the hallway. I mean, it's weird because it's become a destination location. When people come to LA, they come in with their suitcases. Yeah, they take pictures. And their whole family. So we were like, okay, we've been here now seven years. I got to go. I need a bigger space.

I can't. And mom was like, hell no, we're not doing it. It's great for you. No. But I, of course, did it anyway. So that's why we're on Main Street now. It's down the street from Abbey Kinney. And it's a full house.

It's literally an actual house that someone lives in. It has a kitchen, washer, dryer. The front part of the salon was a real salon in the 60s, which is super cool. It was a women's salon. Amazing. So again, none of that was part of the plan or the vision or like our ducks in a row, right? You just got to keep walking the walk, man, and follow those ducks because it takes you somewhere. So with the teaching part, people started asking. Initially, it was for my clients. It was just for you guys.

And then other brow artists would DM me and ask me if they could buy them. So we started making products, stuff that I put my name on that I had really nothing to do with just to get people products to use. But then it just grew and grew and we started researching. My mom did it all literally on her own. Yeah. From companies in Germany, in Italy, and a lot of these companies won't even talk to you. But her executive secretary skills, she weaseled her way in there. And the owner would be like, yeah, we'd love to work with you guys, a small family owned company. And now we're in 500 salons just by people DMing me literally no marketing it's that idea of saying yes when an opportunity comes up and someone says can you do this and you're like yes I'll go figure

it out like I'll ask my mom to get me and like I'll figure it out and I think that's a trait of a lot of successful people is they're just willing to say yes and figure it out afterwards and follow that one thing I want to talk about as well as I've seen you on the Kardashians. I've seen you popping up. How did all of that happen? That was me getting referred by my clients. So again, having a good rapport with the people that I work with. That was Patrick Ta. He's a huge makeup artist who just started his own line. And he teaches as well. And he said, Kelly, can you come to Kourtney? Can you come do her brows? And I was like, absolutely, 100%. I've been doing her now for three years. So it was Courtney first.

And then it was Chloe. And then it was Kim. And now it's Kylie. I've done Chris. But she's not a regular. I do all of Kylie's friends. You know, I do all the assistants. I mean, it's a family affair.

Yeah, and you've created a really famous brow look for them, which is incredible, which I love. I love it. I said actually recently, I was like, I always said, one day I'm going to do a Kardashian. One day I'm going to do a Kardashian. And I had never watched the show, but they're like the most popular thing here ever. So I'm like, one day I'm going to get a Kardashian. Like I just said, I've never really watched the show. And people have so many things to say about them.

And being around them, I was really impressed by their work ethic and their hustle. Like those are badass women. Oh, I love them. Love them. It's insane. Yeah, I really love their work ethic. And for anyone that criticizes them, I just think they came out of nowhere and have become one of the most influential families in the world from a TV show.

How many TV shows have been out that got closed down? Like, these women are smart. But just alone, like, me being able to physically see what they do all day long, I'm tired watching it. Yeah. And I do it myself and I'm tired. And it actually motivates me more to see what they're doing because I'm like, okay, they're flying all across the world. I'm fucking tired, you know, and I'll ask Chloe every now and then I'm like, aren't you just so tired,

like flying? And she's like, you just get used to it, you know, and it's the truth. You do like it becomes part of your life. Right. And something I had also heard from a man who was a, you know, the VIP at Conair at the time said the person that wakes up and works out in the morning is the successful one it's always the person who's in the gym who's getting other things done and I was like oh I'm glad I'm in here when you're in here thanks for that tip but it's true because those people are taking care of their health to be able to make sure that they can take care of other things. Yeah, I love that.

And I've not shared this before on the podcast, but I was speaking at an event a couple of months ago and I was talking about how I wake up really early to meditate for an hour. And this is something that I've really dedicated myself to. And on stage in front of everyone else, some woman got up and she left. She was like, yeah, you can tell she's not a mom.

And everyone in the audience started laughing. And I was like, I didn't say it out loud, but inside I was like, well, you can tell she's not a mom and everyone in the audience started laughing and I was like I didn't say it out loud but inside I was like well I can tell you for sure when I'm a mom I'll still be taking care of myself like I don't know why there's this assumption that when you're a mom you can't take care of yourself and exactly like you're saying the successful people are the ones that get up early the ones that fit things in and it's not well you can tell she's this or you can tell like with the Kardashians you can tell it's because they've got money they've got this no it's not they still have the desire yeah you can't buy that you can't buy the motivation to get up early 100% they have tons of help and yeah I mean if we all had that help we'd all be a lot further right yeah and also to the mom side

of it it is harder when you guys have kids you'll see it totally but at the end of the day it's really just about like we all get in a weird. So the mental health part of it is so important to be able to just keep going. And I have girls, I could tell the other day, one of the girls, she just looks super nervous. I'm like, I don't know if it's just me that she's nervous about, or if she's just in a weird space. And I'm like, are you okay? And she's like, oh, I just, I'm like, oh, I can just feel it. You know, I'm like, let you okay? And she's like, oh, I just, I'm like, oh, I can just feel it. You know, I'm like, let me send you this meditation app. And I don't, I just started recently seeing a hypnotherapist and it has changed my life. It's the best, the best, truly.

And every session that we have, she records and she sends it to me in an email and I have them all on my phone downloaded and every morning so like you wake up an hour early and you listen or not listen but you meditate I do the same thing with our sessions so I have about eight on my phone and I just click them and I listen to all of them I love that and it is harder when you're a mom for sure but it's amazing you were just talking about you set up your salon as a single mom too and with a young baby and it's that letting it drive you versus letting it be the thing that holds you back is I think so powerful. It's crazy too what people say because with the single mom comment I've been a single mom since

pretty much day one right and people will say things like but his dad is around and what yeah my kid is lucky and he has a great dad. But I'm still single, busting my ass, trying to figure out every single day. That doesn't do anything for me. And I actually had a girl at an old salon say to me, yeah, but his dad's here. I'm like, you live with your mother, okay? My parents don't live here. I have no family.

Neither does my son's father. None. Zero. Nobody in our area. Not one person, not literally, not one person. So yeah, I might have his dad, but his dad actually runs his own business as well. So yes, I am totally blessed and lucky that he has a great father, but that doesn't change anything from the days that I have my son. You know, like even today, you know, I had to plan this around his school and he will always come first. One of my favorite stories was my Cardi B famous story. Oh, I haven't

heard it. Tell me. I got asked to go do Cardi B and his dad has always been about sports and his dad puts him in sports every year. And he had this awards, sports awards ceremony. And it was the day of, and I got called to do Cardi B. And his dad was not available to go to the sports awards ceremony. And I'm like, there's just no way I can let him stand on stage without a parent in the audience when he's getting this award. Especially because he doesn't even like sports. Like, you know what I mean? And he's winning an award this is something important to him and I told him after jokingly I said no I said

unfortunately I'm not available and I said you know she'll call back and she did thank god but still I still would have passed it up in a heartbeat I think what's really important in this whole conversation is I say to remember like going back as we started right at the very beginning I was talking about why and just really understanding like why you do what you do and I think for anyone listening like we all have things that motivate us and we all have reasons that we want to show up and be our best selves in the way that we do and I think it's always just pulling back to that so you know you choose to meditate because that helps to support you in your why and those who have parents will meditate because that helps to support you in your why

and those who have parents will choose to do things to support them in their why I think it's always just coming back to it but really allowing yourself to know that you do have control in your life one of the things that's really helped me is kind of like the quote life happens for you not to you and just really recognizing that at times and just really kind of saying actually I do want to make a change in my life and you know what I have a decision to make in that I can choose to get up early or I don't choose to get up early but it's my choice and I think just letting go of that fixed mindset and actually changing it to a growth mindset where you can say look I want to learn I want to work out how I can find 20 minutes extra in my day for me and not you know my child or my business or

whatever that looks like and I think it's just I just want anyone listening to know that they do have a choice it's their life and they can make decisions and empower everyone to make a decision on what is going to help them get the most out of their life. I think it's important. I'm crying again. I love it. And I just want to circle back to what you kind of went into at the beginning around team, because obviously I have been in your salon quite a few times and the girls in there they're amazing and they work so hard and you just seem to have such a great culture what have you been able to do to foster that culture I know you fly them around the world with you as well and they just get to

experience so much but how have you cultivated that I wish I had a great answer for that because the ones that I've flown around the world don't work there anymore. Unfortunately, again, it is what it is. And sometimes egos and things get in the way. But we really tried to make everyone feel important. And I mean, anyone who's there wouldn't have them there if I didn't think they were great, whether it's the front desk, to a brow girl, hair girl, lash girl, and anyone.

And I want everyone to grow and kick ass. But it's tough, man. It's super tough. Like, there's tons of personalities and there's different ages and attitudes and all these things. So we try to have social gatherings. Like Halloween, we did pumpkin painting and Christmas, we do gift exchange. And I mean, we try to do as much as we can. Unfortunately, there's always going to be one or two that just don't want to be a part of it. And it does. I'm like confused by it still. Like, why wouldn't you want to be here? Like, we're trying so hard to make it work, people.

You know, like, what can I do? And the other day I'm like, I'm just going to make her like me. And whatever, it is what it is. But it's tough. It's really tough, you know. And one of the things I really try to say to them is just because someone comes in and let's say there's one in particular who's an asshole, right, and comes in and always looks bitchy. Well, obviously we don't want that and we can only take so much of it. But let's try to have a little compassion for that person and think, why is that person acting that way? Rather than just being like, I'm going to ignore her. I don't want to talk to her. I'm going to avoid her. Say hi.

Are you okay? How was your weekend? What are you doing this weekend? I mean, all we can do is try to engage and give them a hug and be there for them rather than completely shut them out and just think they're a bitch. Because we have no idea what's going on with someone. We really don't. You know, and if they're just a bitch then they're just a bitch but we can at least you know it for yourself that you've tried yeah I feel like we're really lucky on our team but that's definitely one thing that we've always we tried to do is like not

project and just kind of go like what you know we always talk about we just recently went to Joe Dispensers and he talks about your personality creates your personal reality and just like trying to like say understand well we might say something and this goes with team or friendships or family might say something one way but somebody interprets it in a completely different way because that was their personal reality and just like you say just kind of like opening up okay it's like what's going on for you or and we have conversations you know we're in a business marriage essentially and we always have those conversations okay like when you said this I interpreted this it's just my on for you or and we have conversations you know we're in a business marriage essentially and we always have those conversations okay like when you said this I interpreted this it's just my story

this is how I interpreted it I know you didn't mean it this way but this is how I heard it and just I think you know really recognizing that just people hear things differently and people do have things going on at home and you know allowing that grace for that but also opening up the conversation is really important. Also with that, though, as well as like you may have stuff going on at home, but you still need to be professional and try to keep as like 89% of it out of the salon. I mean, there's certain things we can't hold back, like, you know, like me crying, like I'm trying, you know, sometimes it just happens, right? But like, you can't let it affect everything and everyone around you. It's just not fair.

100%. It's like, so when it goes, affects other people, you want to affect other people's energy. I think it's important. It's tough. It's tough because I'm like the mom and the giver and trying to, they're all my children. But there's certain ones that talk to me more because they're more comfortable around me and some are scared of me. And, you know, it is what it is. And one says, hey, do you want to go to dinner?

And I'm available. I'll say yes. You know, so sometimes the others will view it as, oh, she always hangs out with so-and-so. But it's not the case. It's literally if you catch me at the right time and I am free and can go, then I'm going to go. You know, but sometimes people just assume things and we're nicer to or hang out with or closer to whoever. I'm like, no, that person comes and talks to me or vice versa.

I try, you know, but I get it. I get it. I mean, we do trainings in the salon, right? And we do private hands-on trainings. And in those trainings, they're supposed to do two models. Now, this is just for their own benefit. And recently, I said to the girls who were supposed to do the actual waxing, I said, if you don't want to do this, you don't have to. I said, because if I was in your shoes,

I'd be freaked out and I'd be shaking and like trying to think of an excuse to get out of it. So if you want me to do the waxing and you want to watch it, that's totally fine. And they're like, oh my God, really? I'm like, yeah, for sure. I don't care. Like you're not getting a pass or not a pass. Like you're still coming and learning. And it is scary. It's totally scary. So this is just an option for you if you want to do it. And we still book it that way. But if you don't, like, I'm only here to help you. I'm not here to judge you, critique, like criticize, yes, critique, but just for your benefit. So, I mean, I get it. I do understand that people are nervous and scared, but I'm really just, even my own girls. The other day I have Lauren who sits next to me right now and a client

canceled and I was bored and my assistant had my phone. I literally had nothing to do. So I'm like, I'm going to watch Lauren work and see how she works. And I kind of sat and leaned over and I noticed she started going really slow. And I'm like, man, am I making you nervous? And she's like, yes. I'm like, fine. I just wanted to watch. Like, I just, you know, I like to see it.

And that's how I learn is by watching and just trying to make everyone better. I can relate to that too, because I love to watch if we're like designing something or putting something together. And Danielle's laughing because she knows it also makes her nervous because I'm the same. I like things in certain ways.

And at Boss Babe, when you were talking about how you didn't want to be a manager of people, like you have this thing that you're really good at doing and being an entrepreneur, you take that on on I'm really lucky because Danielle loves the parts of business that I don't love and probably if it was just me I wouldn't have a massive team of people I wouldn't have an office I'd probably do things very differently but Danielle brings a lot of that business side and so I'm very particular about the way things look and I'll sit and watch over someone and they'll literally be like you're making me nervous I'm doing a bad job just because you're here and I'm like damn it I just want to

help yeah no totally it's recognizing that that's maybe the kind of entrepreneur you are and it's it's just funny but that's why I love our dynamic so much I can so relate to I'm just not a manager of people and I'm getting better but it just doesn't doesn't come naturally to me just put me in a dark room or quiet room and let me create and do my thing and I'll emerge a few hours later and I'll have a new product but I don't want to be it like oh let me do that review yeah I don't want to tell you like you're late every day I don't want to tell you to clean up after yourself like I don't want to have to reprimand you ever yeah because I'm in the space and I am an artist and it takes away from what I love to do and I don't want to be like the bad guy mean guy but sometimes I have

to be because it's my place and if if someone does a shitty job I'm the one that gets the review saying Kelly Baker this that or whatever I'm like I wasn't even there I didn't do it you know yeah but it's mine and it's my responsibility to make sure that everything's okay no matter what I love that well Kelly thank you so much for being on I love how authentic this interview was and just really showing behind the scenes that's why we love doing this. So thank you. Thanks for having me, ladies. If you loved this episode, please subscribe, download a few more and please leave us a review. I really want to hear what you enjoyed, what your main takeaways were. And I also want to know what

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