the bossbabe podcast - 99. Babba Rivera on Her Journey From Uber's Head of Marketing to CEO of a Next-Gen Marketing Agency

Episode Date: June 10, 2020

We’re joined by ‘Cool Girl’ Babba Rivera, Uber’s former Head of Marketing, an award-winning Brand Marketing Professional, and CEO of bybabba - her very own brand marketing agency. Babba has also been featured in the 2016 Forbes’ list of the top “30 Under 30” for marketing and advertising, ELLE, Vogue, and various other print and digital media. Babba is the definition of a trailblazer, so it’s no surprise that she’s one of the panelists for our Pitch Your Biz Competition with ELLE. Tune in to hear Babba’s inspirational journey from Uber’s visionary Head of Marketing to risking it all to answer the entrepreneurial call. We’re picking Babba’s brain for all things marketing, building a global business, and finding balance between work and life.  This episode is brought to you by ELLE, iconic lifestyle brand, and the world’s largest women’s fashion magazine. We’ve partnered with ELLE for their 75th anniversary to celebrate women entrepreneurship. Submit your business pitches to our Pitch Your Biz Competition at bossbabe.com/elle.   Follow Us: @babba @bossbabe.inc @iamanatalie 

I guess it's like fundraising. You need to get a lot of no's in order to get a few yes. No one wants to be the first one to bet on someone, unfortunately. As you're helping your clients grow, your portfolio just becomes more and more appealing. When you really, really want something, there is just nothing that can stop you. Welcome to the Boss Babe podcast, a place where we share with you the real behind the scenes of building successful businesses, achieving peak performance and learning how to balance it all. I'm Natalie Ellis, CEO and co-founder of Boss Babe and your host for this week's episode. So in case you missed it, we had a special

announcement about our partnership with lifestyle and media brand Powerhouse Elle. Elle means she in French and for its 75th anniversary, Elle is partnering with Boss Babe to celebrate female entrepreneurship. We believe women are the future of entrepreneurship and this year more than ever, we want to discover and reveal the faces that build tomorrow. This is such a proud moment for us. We've always been so impressed with how empowering their messaging has been. I mean I grew up reading Elle magazine and so we are just so happy to be partnering in a way that can really amplify our impact and mission in the world and our guest for today is another one of our role models for the Elle partnership, Baba Rivera. Baba has such a fascinating

story. So having launched Uber in Stockholm at the age of 22 to then working as head of partnerships for Uber in New York, Baba learned early on that her passion lies in marketing and brand building. Eventually she found herself at a point that many of us entrepreneurs find ourselves in actually. So you know that point where you're having to choose between keeping a steady paycheck at a corporate job or starting your dreams of owning your own business. It's often one of the biggest decisions that entrepreneurs have to make. Are they going to go all in? And I really remember how scary it was for me to enter the unknown and begin my journey as an entrepreneur. But after years at Uber, Baba finally decided that she was going to make the leap after she came to the realization that when you really want something, there's nothing that can stop you. And since she's

founded ByBaba, a next-gen brand marketing agency with offices now in both New York and Stockholm, her goal was to merge the gap between the agency world and the uprise of fast-moving direct-to-consumer brands. This episode is so incredibly inspiring. I know I say that all the time. I love every single guest on here but this really really was. I just left this interview buzzing about how proud I am to be able to help women create their own visions of success. I want every entrepreneur and entrepreneur that's just starting out to know that it is possible to create the life and career you've always dreamed of. I know you're going to love this interview and it really is that demonstration

of if you work hard enough and you don't give up you can get there no matter how big and unapologetic and audacious your goals are. So stay tuned after the episode because I'll be sharing more about our partnership with Elle where female entrepreneurs can actually enter our nationwide contest in June to pitch their ideas to a panel of inspiring businesswomen and actually win money towards their business. So without further ado, let's dive right into the episode. And as always, take a screenshot, share your biggest takeaways and Insta story, tag me at IamNatalie at bossbabe.inc and tag Elle at Elle Boutique. And also just quickly, I would love it if you could leave us a review on

iTunes. It means the world to us. And if you add in your Instagram handle, we'll be sharing some of them on social media as well. A boss babe is unapologetically ambitious and paves the way for herself and other women to rise, keep going and fighting on. She is on a mission to be her best self in all areas. It's just believing in yourself. Confidently stepping outside her comfort zone to create her own vision of success. Welcome to the podcast. Thank you. I am so excited for this interview and I really want to dive in at the beginning because I would love to talk a little bit about your background, where you're from, what your childhood was like, where everything began for you. Yeah, so I grew up in the south of Sweden

in a pretty small town called Krihuansta, which I don't think anyone can pronounce, besides if you're from there. And I grew up in a very Chilean household. So both my parents are from Chile, but they immigrated to Sweden during the Pinochet dictatorship. So I was born in Sweden and sort of like grew up with, I guess, two cultures in many ways. I learned Swedish in school. I learned everything about Swedish holidays and traditions from friends. And then in our household, it was very much a Latin culture going on, you know, salsa on repeat. And we only spoke Spanish at home. To this day, my parents don't speak any other language than Spanish. So yeah, quite an interesting upbringing. I love that. And how do you think your upbringing shaped who you

are today? Because you're so driven and so ambitious. And did you get any of that from your parents from your family? Not in any sort of traditional way. Like none of my parents are entrepreneurs. I'm the first one to graduate in my family. But the upbringing shaped me in many ways. I think one part of it is my confidence. I definitely got that from growing up in a family where I didn't really have anyone to rely on.

If I wanted to succeed in school, I had to figure it out on my own. No one in my family could help me with homework or to explain anything. So I became really self-sufficient. Because my parents also didn't speak the language, I had to translate all the paperwork that I would get sent home from teachers. It built up a confidence for me, just like being independent. And I got very praised by that by my parents too. They were always impressed by how much responsibility I took and they would ask me to translate their bank papers. So I don't know, I guess in a way I just became this little helper at home. So I think that built up a sense of confidence for me. And also that feeling that I can learn anything.

I don't need anyone to tell me how things work in order to figure it out. Yeah, I can totally relate to that as well. Because when I was growing up, my mom didn't really mind if I did my homework or not. And she always kind of just trusted me to get on with things. And she was like, oh, you can rely on Natalie. She'll get it done. She doesn't need any help. And I've kind of kept that with me today.

Like if someone tells me to do something, they never need to remind me. I'm just going to go off and do it. And I'm very independent. So I can really relate to that. Yeah. And it's interesting how I feel like with parenting, we always thought that you have to create those boundaries for kids and whatnot. But I'm definitely the exception to that rule because I had no rules at home. I was just always trusted. And I don't know if there were no rules

because I never got into trouble or if I never got into trouble because I had so much trust. I don't know which one is the reason, but it turned out fine. Yeah, I can really relate to that as well. So you went to college and did you go straight into the fashion industry from college? What did your early career look like? So here's the thing. I always liked fashion. I think I started to sort of pick my own outfit at age five or four. My mom would like put out clothes for me and then I will come down to breakfast and I will be wearing something completely different. And she will be like, okay, I guess you're wearing that to preschool today. But because I come from a really

humble beginning, like nobody in my family or any friends of my family had any jobs they sort of loved. So I grew up thinking that a job is something that you do to pay your rent and not something you sort of can turn into a passion because I just didn't have that role model. I had never seen anyone have a passion that was also paying their bills. So my passion was fashion, but I never thought that would be sort of a career in itself. So I was doing it a lot as a hobby. I would buy clothes at H&M, remake them, open dresses up in the back and like sort of like redesign them a little bit based on like what I had seen on magazines on the runway. And then I would resell

them on the Swedish eBay and sort of be like Valentino inspired a dress. But it was actually like an H&M dress that I had just like remade. So I love to buy and resell clothes. So yeah, long story short, when it came to sort of my education, I didn't study fashion or arts or anything like that, because that just like in my worldview was a hobby and not a job. So I went into marketing and business. And that's sort of how I later on realized that, wait a minute, I can actually combine this serious world of marketing and business with this hobby of mine, which is fashion. And kind of like the happy medium for me ended up being the eyewear industry, because that felt academic enough in the sense that

it had to do with like eye doctors and like ambition that felt like, I don't know, serious enough. But then at the same time, you had the fashion element of like glasses being such a huge part of a fashion statement. It's an accessory. So yeah, super strange how like my worldview worked at that time. But that's really how I sort of like ended up where wanting to enter the eyewear industry. It felt like, oh, it's like half part serious, half part fashion.

I love that. And I can really relate to what you said about the way you grew up, because it was the same for my family. And they always had this phrase, you work to live, you don't live to work. It was so interesting, because for me, work is such a big part of my life. And it's something that I really enjoy. But I come from such a different background where that wasn't ingrained in me. But I was always questioning, is this the way it really needs to be? sounds really similar to you where you kind of just kept taking opportunities and being led by things that really lit you up which from the looks of your career it's been that it's been okay let me follow what really lights me up and let me try

things and let me not be afraid to try things to get where you are now. Have you always had that kind of attitude? Yeah, I think I was a little bit more risk avert earlier on. I wouldn't even say career, but like earlier in age, I was very serious in school. If I didn't get the highest grade, I would like cry and run home crying. Everything was life or death. And I think that in a way, I just feel so sad of thinking back to little me, just being so fragile and just trying my best and just like hoping to not fail. I don't know really when that eased up on me. I think part of it was when I moved to Stockholm. So I moved from my hometown to Stockholm, the capital of Sweden to study. And I think I got to

broaden my perspective there. I met other people who were just like me, second generation immigrants, or people who were trying their best to create a life that was very different from the one they grew up with. And I think in just seeing other people on that journey and other people succeeding with unconventional paths that built more resilience and hope in me. And as a result, I started to become a little bit more fearless. And I think later on, I realized that because I come from such a humble beginning, there is nothing I can really do to lose because that just means that I'm still where I am. You know what I mean? Like, I don't have anything to lose, really. I can just

try. Totally. And grow from there. Yeah. It's like, what's the worst that can happen? Well, you'll just end up back where you came from and you'll do it again. Exactly. It's not like you have that much to lose. I love that mindset. So talk to me about when you got started Uber because you were at Uber for quite a long time and progressed so much there and had some massive successes. What was that journey like for you? I had an amazing time at Uber. Honestly, it's one of those career moments that I just wish everyone could have at one point in their life.

And it's not necessarily that Uber was like the best place to work because it was certainly not for everyone. A lot of us either hit burnout or were really close to burnout. I don't want to romanticize it too much, but it was the perfect place and time for me at that moment. And what I mean by that is that my jobs before Uber, I always felt bored. I felt like they were moving too slow. I wasn't used to my full potential.

I was constantly begging for more work, constantly pitching my bosses for more projects. And then I ended up at Uber where there was so much to do. And it was just a never-ending story. And I loved it. It was exactly what I needed at that time. I wanted a job that was all-consuming, where I could just grow and learn and give it my all and sort of like see the fruits of that. And I know that sounds intense. And it was. I ended up staying there for four years and it was running a marathon for four years, but it was also the best time of my life. It was like a paid school. I just learned so much. I love that. How did the job initially come about? So kind of random. After graduating, I moved to Berlin for an internship, which then

turned into a job. And I had eventually decided to move back to Stockholm. I liked the world culture in Sweden more than Germany. So I wanted to sort of like, build up my career in Sweden. First, I was networking with everyone because I moved back not having a job, I just moved back, knowing that I wanted to get a job in Stockholm. And started to network with everyone and started to position myself as a data-driven marketing person. I maybe thought I was better at data-driven marketing at the time than I actually was. But when you are young and you learn one thing and you think you're the pro at it because you learned one thing. That was definitely me. I had just discovered sort of brilliance of using data for marketing decisions and was so amazed by it. And I told the world about it. But the good thing about it was that it got me to

network a lot. And I got to speak to a lot of founders about what I meant about data-driven marketing. And I was saying things that were resonating. So when Uber later on sent a launcher to Sweden to find a local team, and they sort of started networking and were asking around who they should talk to, my name kept coming up for them. And they eventually emailed me and I had no idea who they were. Like, this was not one of those like, oh my God, you got an email from Uber. Like no one knew what Uber was at the time. So it was not a big deal.

It was just a startup who was trying to hire. So I got the email and I decided to meet up with them. I didn't think much about it. But then when I sat down with the team, there were just two people at the time. I was blown away. It was one of those love at first sight situations. I just felt like my heart beating faster. And I just wanted to start working on all the challenges and opportunities that they were mentioning. I just wanted to jump on the ship. They had a pretty rigid hiring process. And I had to do a work assignment and then an interview with their head of Europe and so forth. And eventually I got the job. And I think the fact that they had such a good recruiting process was a big part of my excitement too, because it made me feel like I really wanted it.

I wanted it even more because that work assignment was so fun. And I think once I joined, I knew what I was getting myself into and they sort of knew who they were getting on board. I love that. And it really goes to show that networking and building those relationships, even without this big end goal can really materialize for you. So you successfully launched Uber in Stockholm, which is absolutely incredible. What was it like? I can imagine that was a really crazy time for you. I mean, so crazy. And when I think back at it, I'm like, how did they even let me do what I did? In Sweden, you are not allowed to ask people how old they are when you're hiring. So they didn't know that I was only 22. So they were like, okay, we got this marketing person.

And then they realized that I was 22 and they sort of like freaked out. But the launcher had to go to the next market because that's how Uber operated at the time. Everything was super fast paced. So she was basically like, don't fuck this up. But here is like your KPIs and you're going to be reporting weekly to like the general managers of Europe. And if you guys don't hit your goals, someone will come here. But otherwise, you're good. So it was sort of like this weird time of like super aggressive goals, but no one telling you what to do. And I think that's when I learned that I am an entrepreneur at heart, because that was the best job I've ever had. Like just having that crazy pressure,

but also freedom was amazing and addictive. I became addicted to my job. What were your kind of secrets to success during that time? Because it must have been like having your own business venture to have that level of freedom, such a small team in a completely different country to where their headquarters are. So how did you become so successful in that role? Because you grew in that role so quickly, especially given your age as well. Yeah, I mean, there are many factors that are tied to like the timing of what we did and how we did it. But I would say a big part of it was really building a brand around Uber in Sweden. And I think that was something that we were pretty early on with within Uber.

We were like the first ones to really like take that approach when launching it in Sweden, because in the US, the selling point for Uber was that you could get from A to B, because it started in San Francisco where getting a cab is nearly impossible. So when Uber came to town, it was sort of like, oh my God, now you can push a button and you will get a car. That was not really a selling point in Stockholm. We already had multiple taxi apps and a lot of the taxi companies were really reliable, driving nice cars. So it wasn't mind-blowing for people that you could get from A to B. So we sort of felt like we had to create an it factor around it. And granted, this was during the time that Uber only had black car service. So it was more of an experience. It wasn't sort of like the cheap

option. Like we couldn't play on price because we didn't have UberX at the time. So I did a photo shoot for Uber and they had never done a photo shoot. So those images ended up being used worldwide. I hosted like VIP parties. I did like top rider events. We created a community where like the top riders got to recruit other riders with special offers. And yeah, we did a bunch of parties. We did so much, honestly. I love that. And what led you to then move to New York with Uber? So after a while, it was starting to become a little repetitive. You know, it's like, okay, now it's fashion week in Stockholm again. Now it's this again.

What do we do with Uber here again? And I think I realized that I'm really someone who is meant to build and grow things versus just sustain. And I also felt a little frustrated that I felt like I had so much more to give. But even if we do an amazing job here, Uber is never going to be bigger than it can be in a country like Sweden. So I felt like I had a bigger opportunity if I would have been in a larger market. So I started to sort of bring that up with my boss. And it was a hard conversation because my boss's main goal was to grow the Swedish market. And I was doing really well.

So he had no reason to wanting to get rid of me. So I didn't feel like that conversation was really leading anywhere. And for me, I felt like the big benefit of working for an international company was that I could potentially get international experience. I was always getting pinged by people from all over the world at Uber in marketing roles asking me for advice. And I was like, damn, if I was just based somewhere else, I could have such a greater impact for this company. So I eventually just decided to pitch the idea to the higher ups and positioned it as, I think I could have a greater impact for the company if I were to

relocate somewhere else. I am open to relocating honestly anywhere because I'm obsessed with this company and I just want to continue to grow. If I got to pick a place, I would pick New York because my husband is moving there or at the time boyfriend. He had just got an investment for his company. He was running a startup at the time that required him to open up an office there. So I was like, I could move there with him or I could move somewhere else. And we consider this a period in our lives when he's building his company in one place and I'm building my career somewhere else. I was just so dedicated to my career at the time. So I just felt like I wanted to continue to grow. Let's take a quick pause to talk about my new favorite all-in-one platform, Kajabi. You know, I've been singing their praises lately because they have helped our business run so much smoother and with

way less complexity which I love. Not to mention our team couldn't be happier because now everything is in one place so it makes collecting data, creating pages, collecting payment, all the things so much simpler. One of our mottos at Boss Babe is simplify to amplify and Kajabi has really helped us do that this year. So of course I needed to share it here with you. It's the perfect time of year to do a bit of spring cleaning in your business, you know, get rid of the complexity and instead really focus on getting organized and making things as smooth as possible. I definitely recommend Kajabi to all of my clients and students so if you're listening and haven't checked out Kajabi yet now is the perfect time to do so because they are offering Boss Babe listeners

a 30-day free trial go to kajabi.com slash boss babe to claim your 30-day free trial that's kajabi.com slash boss babe I love that and so you moved there and you had two years where you were just making massive moves and doing amazing things and then you went to work for Away as director of brand marketing. What was that transition like? And how did you feel going into that startup? Yeah, I mean, the transition was basically I left Uber on a Friday and I got an Away email on the Saturday. No way. Yeah. And then when I logged into that email, I think there were 75 emails there already because

they had already been forwarding all like marketing stuff in there. So it was interesting. You know, it was really no break. I think in retrospect, it would have been nice to maybe at least get a week of vacation in between, especially after a four years long marathon. But you know, they were a startup. They really wanted me to start ASAP. They had already been waiting for me to go through my visa process and whatnot. I had to transfer my visas. So I wanted to get started as quick as possible. And I was also stoked, but yeah, it was really fun because

I really got to build again and they were super early on and growing. And I got to be part of setting the brand identity from the ground up and help be part of building the brand marketing team, which eventually became a team of 12 people under me and so forth. But I also felt pretty quickly into that journey that like, oh, damn, did I make a mistake? Like, I don't think I have another four years in me of working for someone else. I felt pretty quickly that my next step here really is entrepreneurship. And maybe I should have left Uber to start something of my own immediately. And I don't think I was emotionally or mentally there at the time. I was so strongly connected to Uber that I needed another company to sort of like pull me out of there. At the time, I was so strongly connected to Uber that I needed

another company to sort of like pull me out of there. So it was a weird identity, you know, crisis for me leaving Uber after so many years and then realizing this is not my next four year, five, six year thing. But how do I sort of pay respect to these founders and help them as much as I can while still making sure I'm setting myself on a trajectory that is aligned with my long-term future. Yeah. And I feel like there's probably a lot of people listening to this that can really relate to that. So when you finally decided, okay, it's time I'm going to go out on my own. You did that about three years ago now. What has that journey been like for you? What was it like first deciding,

okay, I'm going to start my own business. Did you quit your job right away and start working on it or was it a kind of slow transition I had always thought that I would basically start working on it while being at away but months kept passing by and I hadn't done a single thing for my own business because all awake and hours of the day were literally dedicated to away. It was so intense. We were working around the clock. I would get Slack messages at 3am. It was just like there was no time and there was even no such thing as weekends. I would work on weekends too. I think during the entire time there, I took one vacation day to take a long weekend, but then I ended up working on the weekend too. So I don't know, I think I quickly just realized that this is the kind of job where there's no space for a side

hustle. And that's okay. Not every job sort of has that cushiness or like that comfort. So I had to just have the hard realization that for me to start something of my own, I'm going to have to leave in order to figure it out. And that's scary, because that means you have to leave for the unknown. And in my case, even scarier, because I had to leave, which meant also leaving my visa on the table, and then reapply for a visa on my own, try to sponsor myself. And there are obviously no guarantees doing that. So it was a really bold move. And in retrospect, I'm like, how did I find the courage to do that again? But I guess when you really, really want something, there is just nothing that

can stop you. So you had to reapply for your visa. So what was that waiting period like before you knew if you would get it or not? Because I've also been through this process. And I know how crazy it is. Yeah, I mean, the good thing for me was that I had already been on an O-1 visa before. So there sort of like had already been a proven case of me, quote unquote, having a special talent that would qualify for that visa. So it was more so the technicality of like, now the special talent is not under the umbrella of a way, it's under my own umbrella. So what does that look like? And I had to create a lot of cases to show that there was demand for my services. So I was starting a brand marketing agency and I had to

prove that I had clients, which obviously is impossible until you're up and running. I can't sign clients until I have a company, but I can't get a visa to start a company if I don't show that there are people out there willing to pay for my services so that the government can feel reassured that I'm not going to be here working illegally. So it was just like catch 21 or whatever it's called. And that's one of those moments where I was so grateful to have a community to rely on. And I basically sent an email to all my sort of closest connections in business, whether it was founders or marketing directors or people in the industry that I had met over the years in the US and explained that I'm starting this new agency and I'm going through my visa process and need to sort of like show that there is like a demand for my type of services.

If there's anyone you think I should talk to, or if you think there might be something that we can work on with your company, like I would love to connect. And that sort of like helped me to get a few letters of intent, which is a term I learned then, which means that there is intent to work together and you can sort of set out the terms and like the fees, but it's not legally binding. So it doesn't mean that they actually do have to hire you for that amount. And that was, I think, the perfect happy medium for me because I was able to show in my application

that I have access to people that are able to hire these sort of services at these sort of rates. And can you remember what the first ever project you did work on with your agency was? Yeah, I think there are two brands sort of like have merged into like, I can't remember exactly which one was first, but I do think it was A-Day. Their website is thisisaday.com. And they do functional fashion and all sustainable,

athleisure, really smart clothing. And that was one of those sort of like blessings of me just having met the founder, Nina and Meg. I had met them during my time in New York, just in the industry. And they sort of wanted to help me and took a chance on me, basically. They were my first client. So forever grateful to them. I love that. And since launching, your agency has grown so much and you have just created such an incredible business. So what's that journey like being from the very beginning to getting a few clients to having offices in two countries and scaling significantly? Yeah, it's an interesting journey because the first sort of few months is so nerve wracking.

I just remember being like, I'm on top of the world and then being like, why am I doing this again? I guess it being like, I'm on top of the world and then being like, why am I doing this again? I guess it's like fundraising. You need to get a lot of no's in order to get a few yes. And no one wants to be the first one to bet on someone, unfortunately. So you are in that catch 21 when you are trying to sell your first services. says you don't have a portfolio or like a capability stack or a sizzle of case studies of other things your quote unquote agency has done because guess what I started today. So it's like that balance of being honest where you are, but at the same time, trying to sound

appealing enough for someone to want to hire you. So in the beginning for me, I was really selling on my sort of personal clout. Like this is my work experience. I worked at Uber, I worked at Away. These are the things I learned there. And these are the services that I see happening on an agency that should happen on an agency capacity based on my experience. So really leveraging my past employers as sort of like the portfolio. And what has it been like now from kind of leveraging yourself and your clout to building this brand and becoming a CEO? How have things changed for you? I mean, the beautiful thing with the agency model is that, especially a brand

marketing agency, is that you're working with brand awareness. So as you're helping your clients grow, your portfolio just becomes more and more appealing. So that little startup you worked with a few months ago might now be on the front page of Forbes. And that is great for you because that's good PR. So we sort of saw a lot of clients come from word of mouth or from other founders, especially in this sort of startup world and the direct-to-consumer space. A lot of founders pick each other's brain. And anyone who was sort of trying to crack influencer marketing or figure out experiential, they would talk to a certain founder and they would name drop us and then that would turn into an introduction. That's amazing. And so what does your day-to-day now look like as a CEO? Well, right now I'm in quarantine. So it looks a little different. I set up an office in

my closet and I spend way too many hours in front of this computer now. But we have an office in Sweden and one in New York. The New York one obviously being closed right now. So everyone is working remote. We kick off our days with a virtual sync where we just sort of like say hi and share what's on our mind and what we're working on for the day. I found that to be super valuable when now that we're working remote, it sort of provides that sense of community. And yeah, for us, we used to do a lot of experiential marketing. So for now, a lot of that had to sort of turn into Instagram lives or virtual events or sort of like mailers to influencers to enjoy at home and brand partnerships between our clients and other brands are in in the similar situation so it's a lot of new territory to constantly reinvent

yourself has your business been affected much by COVID or has it been more it's just needing to pivot? It's definitely been affected. I would say in the beginning, we felt it the most because everyone was panicking and everyone was freezing all expenses. were basically like calling with either giving a heads up that they had to freeze the partnership or might have to renegotiate payment terms or needed to lower the scope or like, I don't think we had a single client that did not change during this time. And that's obviously super tough when you're on one hand, you understand where they're coming from. On the other hand, you have your own business and your own team that you need to save. So the first weeks of quarantine were super intense for me. I feel like I was working around the clock just to try to make sense of everything. Yeah. And do you still feel like that is kind of your life as a founder? Because you were saying

when you were at Uber, it was like this four year marathon. Do you feel like being a founder, it doesn't really slow down? Or have you been able to get more balance? Yeah, it definitely doesn't really slow down. You wake up to new fires every day. And so much of your job is making sure that your team is motivated. And you can never take your team for granted. Anyone who is a high performer and a star needs sort of like that attention at all times and deserves to be treated with the importance that they bring. And so it's just hard to ever, you know, fully lean back. That being said, when it is your own company, you do get to create the culture. So that's been the most rewarding part. We normally practice something we call Balance Monday. So on every Monday, everyone sort of like checks out at

4pm. We do a lot of team retreats. And we try to, we very rarely work on weekends, unless we have like a production or like some sort of an experiential thing. And we know when it's expected to check emails on the weekend. And that was not the case at Uber. So I think for me, I definitely have been trying to implement sort of like a more normal work hour situation. My philosophy is that if I can't complete my work within normal work hours, then there is something wrong with my business model. Yeah, taking way too much on. So for people listening, can you explain the difference between brand marketing and general

marketing, performance marketing? Because a lot of people might not know the difference. Yeah, definitely. And I mean, I don't know exactly what the hard definitions are, but I would say performance marketing is generally sort of growth marketing. It can be referred to as well. And that's all the paid media you would see on Google or Facebook ads or sponsored promoted posts on Instagram, not influencer posts, but more so when a brand does a boosted post on Instagram or Facebook, that's performance marketing. And brand marketing is usually everything that falls under brand awareness. So influencer marketing, content marketing, creative events, community, sort of like sometimes referred to as the fluffy stuff. But really, I think the reason it's grown so much in importance lately, especially in the direct-to-consumer space, is that it's been proven to make performance marketing more effective. So basically, as a brand becomes better at their brand marketing,

their cost of acquisition on the performance marketing side goes down as well. So do you see brand marketing as more of a longer term play than short term like performance marketing? Yeah, I mean, definitely. It's hard to measure overnight to like properly, you can obviously measure the success of certain activations. But to measure how well you're doing on brand marketing in general, you sort of need to track brand awareness. And another good metric point is how much of your sales are coming from organic customers versus acquired customers. That's another indication that we looked a lot at a way where as we ramped up our brand marketing, our organic customers just grew exponentially.

It's definitely a longer term play from a measurement standpoint. And so with the companies that you work with, because I know there's probably a lot of startup founders listening to this, do you generally see the companies investing in brand marketing are say they're venture backed or they've been going for a while or do you see startups in early phases who perhaps don't have a ton of venture money still investing in brand marketing? I would say I think everyone is investing in brand marketing to a certain degree if that's an agency partner not sure like for some people maybe one of the founders is a creative so then naturally they're just investing a lot in content or photography or whatever

that might be. But I would say this sort of like best recipe is to have a combination of both. It's hard to build a business only with brand marketing. And it's hard to build a business only with paid marketing. They really do have to coexist. I totally agree. And it's the same with Boss Babe. We've been brand marketing only up until the past

six months when we started to invest in ads and things like that and we didn't even know the difference we were just okay I'm very creative let's create content and seeing how that's evolved I really see the importance of it what I would love to touch on is you mentioned being a creative and so being a creative as a CEO what does does that look like for you? How do you stay organized? How do you manage your team in that way? Because I think there's a big difference between creative CEOs and non creative CEOs. And me and my husband are both CEOs. I'm very creative, he's not. And the way we do things is so different. So I'm really curious to hear your take on that. Yeah, I would actually in total honesty say that it's really, really difficult to work with a non-creative founder in the early stages. That's something we learned quickly at the agency

is that for us to be successful as agency, we either need one of the founders to have sort of like a creative background, or we need to have a point of contact from the company that's a pure marketing hire, because trying to sort of like operate with brand marketing with someone who lives in Excel, it's just a waste of everyone's time, it just becomes a lot of explaining the why versus driving the value. And then next thing you know, several months have passed, and all you have done is explained why it's important versus actually doing it and driving the results. Why do you think that is? I mean, it's education in a way. I think if you schooled yourself in a world where everything is logical and makes sense, the thing with brand marketing is that it's not always logical. Like

it's not logic for people to buy a soap that's twice the price just because they like the branding. There's no logic in that, but that still happens every day. So to try to explain things that are not logical to someone who has been taught to believe that there is a logic to everything makes you having to teach them a lot. And I sort of like half joke internally that we're not someone's brand marketing school. We're an agency and we're here to drive results. And in order to do that, we need to have some sort of a sponsor

on the other side of the table who knows that what they are asking for is of importance and not be questioning it halfway through the project. Yep, I really love that. And I think that's so important and I can definitely relate. My co-founder is not a creative, but I'm really lucky that she kind of trusts me. And if I suggest something, she's like,

okay, I trust you. I don't really see the point of it, but let's go and do it anyway. And I love what you mentioned because it's about being able to choose your clients, not just having your clients choose you. 100%. Yeah, when you're building a business, it can be really easy to take on every single client that comes your way.

But like you say, you know what you need in order to get success. And so you having that process has probably led to you getting way better results, having more fun and being able to scale. Do you think that's the case? Yeah. And I mean, we didn't have that process from day one. Like we definitely learned the hard way. In the beginning, you're just like, A, you need clients to survive. And two, you're just a little bit more naive too. You think that everyone gets it. And I think as time progressed, we learned

from our mistakes. And whenever we would find ourselves with a lot of friction with a client, we would always go back to like, okay, what are the similarities between these examples? And we found out that it actually always came down to sort of like not having anyone on the company side who understands brand or marketing. And it's unfortunate because they're the ones who really need the help. But if you're constantly sort of like

the only voice in the room, and at the same time, you're invoicing on a monthly basis, but you never get to actually do the work because you're constantly having to explain yourself before you can do anything that it's like, it just starts to become more expensive for the client too. So it's like a lose-lose. Yeah, I think that's a really, really good point to share. So what advice would you give to women that are listening and they are perhaps working for someone else and really, really want to start their business or that perhaps entrepreneurs, especially in the early stage, what advice would you give to them about going after that kind of dream, building a business, especially in the early stages? I think one sort of like universal advice can be to not overthink it. I think in a way, I'm happy that I just jumped headfirst on this because anyway, can't anticipate all the problems.

So there comes to a certain point where you just have to have enough trust in yourself that whatever gets thrown at you, you're going to figure it out. So I think there is strength in not letting yourself overthink something and just trust that gut instinct. I think the other part of that advice, though, is to also be realistic in the sense of what your expectations are. I think it's easy to look at a lot of other founders and see what they have and think that you're going to have that month two into your business just because now you're also

a CEO and a founder. That's not how it works. A lot of these founders have been working on what you see today for many, many years. And it's not glamorous in the beginning. So be ready for the ride. I also like to remind everyone that it's not for everyone and not everyone has to be an entrepreneur. You can be happy and successful in life being an employee. There is nothing wrong about that. But if you do know that entrepreneurship is a dream of yours, then don't let fear or sort of like other people's voices stop you like you will figure most of it out as you go. Yeah, so true. It's definitely not the most glamorous or the most easy option. I

always say that if I wanted an easy life, I would definitely not be an entrepreneur. So I love that you mentioned that. So as you know, we've partnered with Elle magazine to celebrate their 75th anniversary, which is amazing. And we're so happy to have you on board as an ambassador. And it really plays into your experience. And especially I know we haven't talked about a lot, but you have a company called Her USA, which is a community that connects women leaders, influencers, entrepreneurs. And so it only seems fitting that you come on as an ambassador and really share your experience as being really unapologetic about your ambition and following your dreams and not taking no for an answer and

going after it so speaking of that what does L mean to you and this partnership mean to you yeah I mean L is such a legacy brand I, I guess it's fair to call it a brand, right? I mean, at this point, it's like... Empire. Yeah, it's an empire. And to me, I feel like Elle has been with us women through so much, through thick and thin, through women reclaiming their space and regaining their power. And I love that they continue to engage in initiatives like this, that really sort of like speaks to that, to the roots in female empowerment. And that's so dear to me. I think like, I don't know where that drive comes from, but I'm obsessed with inspiring and empowering other women to dream big and to question the stereotypes. So I think for me, Al really just represents that like,

we don't need to fit the mold, we can recreate the molds for ourselves. I absolutely love that. And speaking of unapologetic ambition, you do have an exciting launch coming up in the fall. And you said you'd give us a sneak peek. So can you tell us a bit about what's happening? Yeah, so we have been incubating a brand within the Bybaba agency. And I feel so stoked about this, you know, was one of my dreams when I started the agency to one day be able to incubate brands with the sort of like vast experience that we're getting through all the work that we get to do on the agency side and obviously with my background. So this fall, we're launching a modern, clean hair care brand that's rooted in the Latin heritage.

And I'm a Latina myself. And as any Latina will know and identify with, we are obsessed with hair and beauty in our culture. So this brand is sort of like taking those home remedies from the Latin culture and bottling it up in a modern brand that is really, really awesome. That's really exciting. And is that something you see yourself doing, continuing to build brands underneath your agency umbrella? I mean, hard to say, because like, that's what I thought. I was like, okay, this is like the agency can become such a platform to incubate brands. But now starting to work on this brand, I'm like realizing how attached I'm becoming to it.

So I don't know if I will ever be able to like have more babies or if that is, you know, going to just be the baby. But yeah, I guess time will tell. We'll have to start somewhere. Yeah, I mean, it's hard to know. And I think as entrepreneurs, the early stage is definitely the most exciting and creating something from scratch. And then as it gets a little bit older, you're like, okay, this is a toddler or it's off to high school, I can go have another baby. Which is probably how you felt with your agency, right? Once it

got to a certain point, you're like, okay, I can focus somewhere else now. Definitely. And I definitely sort of like realized that last year I was just so amazed by the team like it just like happened overnight where I was like wow I could disappear and like it would be so fine like maybe even better off no it's cool when you've sort of like have worked so hard on something and you felt like it's been on fire non-stop and then next thing you know, you have a team that's so extremely capable. Yeah, it's definitely the best feeling I've experienced that too, in the past year or so. And it's such a breath of fresh air. And you get to step back and be like, Oh, I actually see a way that my life can start to get a little bit less crazy. Well, thank you so much for being on here. It's been so inspiring to hear your story. And I'm

really excited about your brand launching. Can you give people all the links of where they can find you find you where they can sign up to find out more and how they can get to know a bit about your brand before it launches in the fall? Yeah, definitely. I would say the two best ways to sort of stay in the loop right now is to follow me on Instagram, which is just at Baba, B-A-B-B-A, and to sign up to our newsletter from the agency. And you can do that at buybaba.com. Love it. Yeah, we don't spam at all. We send like one newsletter a month, max, and they're normally really fun. So sign up there. We'll definitely be telling. You will be the first to know when our hair care brand

sees the light of the day through that. I love it. Well, thank you so much. Thank you. I'm so excited about this partnership with you guys. And thank you so much for having me. I really hope you enjoyed this episode with Baba. As I mentioned in the beginning of this episode, Boss Babe has combined forces with lifestyle brand Elle to kick off a high impact partnership with meaning. Together, we want to continue to pave the way for women to achieve their own versions of success. As an entrepreneur myself,

I know how hard it was to have the resources and the guidance to start my first business. So our goal with this partnership is to leverage our resources to help women all over the world to follow their dreams. And we have some really exciting news the nationwide contest pitch your biz is now live contestants are able to pitch their businesses by submitting a video under two minutes on why they should be chosen as one of 10 finalists they'll then be selected to move forward and take part in a virtual event on octoberrd. There, they'll present ideas directly to our panelists,

including Janice Bryant-Hallroyd, Rebecca Minkoff, Baba Rivera, Beatrice Dixon, and me and Danielle. So you could win up to $15,000 in funding for your business. So there is no reason that you shouldn't be pulling out your iPhone right now and recording that elevator pitch. So if you have a business or a business idea that you know would crush it, I want you to head over to bossbabe.com forward slash L to learn how you can submit your pitch today and stay tuned for the latest updates on this

partnership as we announce updates, giveaways and an opportunity to work with us. If you loved this episode, please subscribe, download a few more and please leave us a review i really want to hear what you enjoyed what your main takeaways were and i also want to know what you want to hear us talk about next to say thanks for leaving us a review we'll send you a copy of the boss babe 25 the boss of 25 is the 25 essential resources you need for personal and professional growth. It covers everything from our favorite rituals, books, and hacks. If you want a copy, just leave us a review, screenshot it, and send to podcast at bosswave.com. We will then email you a copy ASAP. And since we love Instagram, you can go to the hashtag the Boss Wave podcast and find our latest

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