The Bossticks - #120: Dr. Michael Gervais - Positive Self Talk, Therapy, Success & Failure, Meditation, & Coaching Top Performers

Episode Date: June 26, 2018

On this episode we are joined by Dr. Michael Gervais. On this show we talk positive self talk, therapy, success and failure, meditation and what it takes to be a coach to some of the most successful performers in the world. We also have some special announcements at the start of the show so be sure to tune in and listen for those.  To learn more about Dr. Michael Gervais click HERE To connect with Lauryn Evarts click HERE To connect with Michael Bosstick click HERE Read More on The Skinny Confidential HERE To Call the Him & Her Hotline call: 1-833-SKINNYS (754-6697) This episode is brought to you by FOUR SIGMATIC We have been drinking this company's mushroom-infused elixirs and coffees for over a year now. When we need a break from coffee but still need that extra morning jolt and focus the Mushroom Coffee with Lion's Mane and Chaga is the way to go. Lauryn also drinks the Mushroom Matcha which is a green tea designed as a coffee alternative for those of you who want to cut back on caffeine without losing focus and cognitive boosts. This stuff doesn't actually taste like mushrooms, it's delicious. All of these blends have a ton of nutrients and amino acids to give you balanced energy without the jitters. To try FOUR SIGMATIC products go to foursigmatic.com/skinny and use promo code SKINNY for 15% off all products.  This episode is brought to you by Skillshare. Skillshare is an online learning space offering more than 20,000 courses. Join the millions of students already learning on Skillshare today with a special offer just for our listeners: Get two months of Skillshare for just 99 cents. That's right, Skillshare is offering The Skinny Confidential listeners two months of unlimited access to over 20,000 classes for just 99 cents. To sign up, go to www.skillshare.com/skinny. 

The following podcast is a dear media production. This episode is brought to you by Four Sigma. One of our favorite companies. So we interviewed the founder Taro on our show and had to bring the brand on board as a partner. Four Sigmaics specializes in superfoods, medicinal mushrooms, and adaptogenic herbs. They also make drinking mushrooms and superfoods delicious and easy to do with their mushroom coffees, mushroom super blends, and their mushroom elixirs. If you're looking for a coffee alternative to switch up your caffeine intake,

Four Sigma has the blends for you. They're all delicious. Just open a pack and add it to hot water. You can even throw the little packets in your handbags. They don't taste like mushrooms. And like always, we have a special offer for all TSC him and her listeners. Go to foursigmatic.com forward slash skinny,

an inner promo code Skinny at checkout for 15% off your entire order. This episode is also brought to you by Skillshare. Skillshare is an online learning space offering more than 20,000 courses. I am currently using the platform to learn after effects, which is the platform that creates all of our Instagram story motion graphics, as well as Lawrence Motion Graphics, and YouTube introductions and slide-ins. This is a tool for brands and individuals to acquire new skills

or take novice skills to an expert level. Think of it as the Netflix for learning skills. So join the millions of students already learning on Skillshare today with a special offer just for our listeners. Get two months of Skillshare for just 99 cents. That's right. Skillshare is offering the skinny confidential listeners, There's two months of unlimited access to over 20,000 classes for just 99 cents.

I don't know how you beat that. To sign up, go to Skillshare.com slash skinny. Again, go to Skillshare.com slash skinny to start your two months of learning now. That's Skillshare.com slash skinny. Let's get into the show. She's a lifestyle blogger extraordinaire. Fantastic. And he's a serial entrepreneur.

A very smart cookie. And now Lauren Everts and Michael Bostic are bringing you along for the ride. ready for some major realness. Welcome to the skinny confidential, him and her. We're plagued by what other people think of us. And it is, it's time. We're fatigued by it. We're overrun by it.

We're running our systems into the ground. We're literally, you've heard of FOMO. Yeah. Fear of other people missing out. You've heard of YOLO, you only have once. So I'm going to introduce a new one to you guys. Okay. Okay.

I think this is at the center of one of the great ailments of modern men and women is Fopo. Fear of other people's, opinions. And so it is time that we switch the model that I need to do more to be more. And the thought that I need to do extraordinary things to be extraordinary is broken. Welcome back to the skinny confidential him and her show. If you are new to the show, thank you for joining. That clip was from our guests of the show today, Michael Jervais. On this episode, we have a few new announcements to make. We discuss positive self-talk, therapy, success and failure, meditation, and what it takes to be a coach to some of the most successful performers in the world.

I am Michael Bostic. I'm a businessman and entrepreneur. Now a podcaster. Well, actually, I've been a podcaster now for how many episodes we've done now? 120? 130. I don't keep count. But in and then we count the ones that we've done with others as well.

I feel like you have like a whiteboard with a tally that you keep track of. I mean, it's a lot now. If you get to the 100 mark, it's a lot. You know. You love numbers. Don't forget to introduce yourself. Okay. Hi, guys.

I'm Michael's wife, Lauren Everett. I am the creator of the skinny confidential. She's my sidekick here, a sidekick. You got a sidekick. And today we're getting real with Michael. I'm excited for this episode. All right, let's get to the announcements. So we have some new announcements to make.

And I think Lauren touched a little bit on it last week on the show. We are now moving our show into six episodes per month, starting in July. Every other Thursday will release another episode. It's not a mini episode. It's not a bonus episode. It's an actual episode. We wanted to do more solo stuff. more call-ins, more listener questions. As many of you know, this show originated and started with

listener questions. So we wanted to really integrate that again into the show. Nothing half-ass either. We're not like Michael said. It's going to be full episodes. So you guys just listened to my solo episode last week. Michael's going to do one. I think his first one up is going to be on podcasting. And then we're going to be doing like he said some episodes together. So I would love to hear what you guys want to hear on these extra two episodes a month. So let me know on my latest Instagram. Yeah, I mean, we love the interviews and we're going to continue to interview, but in hopes of also, you know, still connecting with the audience, outside of interviews and, you know, providing content ourselves. We wanted to up it to six per month, so we can look forward to that.

And to get you guys more involved in the show, we have a new feature and that is the skinny confidential, him and her hotline, both very excited about it. A hotline. That is so vintage in the best way. Well, you know, it's funny, is the new studio, the Dear Media Studio, has call in capabilities, Skype capabilities has like screen so you can see things, all that stuff. But a lot of the time with podcasting and with everyone's schedules, it's not practicals. We don't have a set live date for our shows. Like it doesn't, you know, it's not like if you're listening to Howard Stern, you tune in every morning from like 9 a.m. Eastern time to one. But we don't do that. It would record them on the go a lot of times. So the new phone line, um, you can call in. You need to leave your name, your city, your state,

an optional social handle. And like, you can either leave a question or a comment and we can, you know, there's a chance that it'll be featured on the show. If you guys want to call in, the number is 1-8-33 Skinnies. That's S-K-I-N-N-Y-S. That's easy to remember, right? Make sure you leave your Instagram handle too, so we can shout you out. Yeah. And we also have a new podcast site coming soon, which will showcase all the show notes

and we'll keep it more organized and a new podcast email newsletter, which will keep everybody up to date. So a lot of new stuff going on, very excited. Speaking of announcements, I also have to tell you guys about The mushroom hot cacao mix that I've been drinking at night to help me relax. It's by four-sigmatic. So four-sigmatic, we're obsessed, okay? If you've been listening to our recent episodes, you know how much we love this line of products from one of our favorite Finnish entrepreneurs. Granted, we don't know that many Finnish entrepreneurs, but if you heard the episode,

it's episode 116, or as Michael would say, 116, with four-sigmatic founder, Terro. Okay? So let's talk about the brand. They have so many unbelievable products and Michael and I both take them. We take different ones from the line. Michael's been taking them for a couple years now and I just got introduced to the Hot CCalmix and I can't stop. So what they are is there these mushroom-based elixers that you pour into hot water. They're in these tiny little packets that you can throw in your clutch, super quick, efficient. The products are so much more cost effective than a cup of coffee. okay and I feel like they give you that zing just like a cup of coffee does so for just 15 bucks you can get a pack of 10 or 20 which is awesome each pack makes a cup so like I said there are these tiny little packets four sigmatic makes different types of medicinal mushrooms into blends that each have different functions so all different functions

they're blends for focus they have ones for sleep that's my favorite they have blends to replace your morning coffee michael's favorite blends for gut health and blends to relax in combat anxiety And trust me, when I say they really work, if you don't believe me, go back to episode 116. So each of these mushroom blends include a ton of beneficial amino acids and adaptogens. We talk about amino acids all the time on the skinny confidential. I am such a fan of them. I feel like a lot of people are missing them in their diet, so this is a good way to get them. You don't get caffeine jitters, too, when you have the caffeine one, which I really love.

But my favorite, like I said, I have to shout this out because I know you guys are going to like this one, is the mushroom hot cacao mix. It helps me relax at the end of the night. You could also do, if you're more of a macha person, the mushroom macha, and this one's going to be more for productivity, and then they also have a golden latte mushroom mix for beauty. If you're a golden milk fan, you'll like this one. If you're wondering, it doesn't taste like mushrooms, so don't worry, but it does give you all the nutritional benefits from mushrooms. It tastes really, really good, and you can always add some coconut or unsweetened almond milk to the situation. So check them out.

Go to 4Sigmatic.com. That's F-O-U-R-S-I-G-M-A-T-I-C-C-com slash skinny. And enter promo code skinny for 15% off. Again, go to 4-Sigmatic.com slash skinny and inter-promocode skinny for 15% off. I can no longer live without the mushroom coffee mix with the quarter of Seps in Chaga. I drink it every day now.

One more announcement to make that we're all pretty excited to make. and it comes from the dear media realm. I can't tell you guys too much yet, but I wanted to give this audience particularly, not the audience that lives on the social channels, but the ones that we know tune into the podcast every week. The first opportunity to look for this when we make the announcement next week, Lauren and I will be doing one of our first live events. We're very selective with live.

As you guys know, we have never done one yet for this podcast, and we're getting ready to announce next week. We have a really, really badass guest lined up and it's going to be an amazing event. There will be champagne. There will be champagne, yes. So look out for that next week and make sure that you tune in right away

when that announcement's made because the spots are very limited. Okay, and the final announcement for the show today. Let's talk about skills. Who wants to learn some new skills? Who needs to step up their game? We have the answer for you, and that answer is Skillshare.

This is one of our favorite platforms for figuring out how to use new skills. They are basically the Netflix of learning, with over 20,000 online courses taught by people like you and me, you and Lauren, whoever. Taylor and I learned how to use Adobe After Effects, which is how we create all of our motion graphics and Insta Stories if you follow Lawrence Instagram, and you see all those crazy graphics or you follow mine. This was from After Effects, and we use Skillshare to help us learn. They also used in Lawrence Motion Graphics for her YouTube videos.

The class I took is Adobe After Effects getting started with motion graphics by Evan Abrams. you guys should check it out and check that out if you're interested in learning the program. Guys, this is insane because they have a ton of other courses on design. So think Photoshop, photography, flat lays, Instagram, and tons of situations for creatives. They have business courses on marketing and how to build personal brands using new technology and much more. The class that I think that you guys should check out is by Chaz Langley. And he does this class on Snapsede. If you don't know what SnapSeed is, you guys need this, especially if you're an influencer or blogger.

And Chaz gives this whole class. It's called Snap Seed the only photo editing app you need. Why I like this class is because it teaches you about all the functions of Snapsede. Okay. You're going to learn how to brighten, crop, all the different things that you can do to filter your image. I mean, there's even ways that you can take stuff out of your image. So let's say you have a really pretty Instagram photo that you want to post, but there's like a guy in the background. you can just delete that guy and have like a clear crisp background. Anyway, I love Skillshare because it's really for anyone that's trying to better themselves. You guys know I'm about creating a strategic future by design and this will help.

You can get better at your job or even your own professional skill set, like sharpen it, you know? So join the millions of students already learning on Skillshare today with a special offer just for our listeners. Get two months of Skillshare for just 99 cents. That's right, guys. Skillshare is offering the Skinny Confidential, him and her listeners, two months of unlimited access to over 20,000 classes for just 99 cents. To sign up, go to Skillshare.com slash skinny. Again, that's Skillshare.com slash skinny to start two months of learning now. Make sure you check out Snapsede. That video is awesome. That's Skillshare.com slash skinny. Okay, so let's get ready to get

into the interview. There are a lot of people that call themselves coaches in 2018. It seems everyone into some type of coach, Larn, lifestyle coach, business coach, social media coach, influencer coach. You never know who to trust. So we wanted to interview someone who had some deep credentials to back up what coaching really is. And when we found out about Michael Dervais, we knew he would be a great place to start. This guy has the credentials. He has coached some of the world's top performers and has the clientele to back him up. Dr. Michael Dervais is a high performance psychologist who's worked with some of the best in the world, including Olympians, internationally acclaimed artists, musicians, and MBPs from every major sport and Fortune 100 companies. He's a published

author and speaker as well as the host of Finding Mastery podcast. He was also in Tim Ferriss's book, too, which is awesome. With that, let's get into this high-octane conversation with Mr. Michael Jervais. This is the skinny confidential, him and her. Okay, Michael, describe your upbringing and kind of tell us what your childhood was like. I mean, we're starting with the hard stuff, aren't we? I want to go deep. I want to know what abuses have you suffered now. I'm just kidding. Okay. So childhood, I was born in Virginia, grew up on a farm, and it was a mix between my parents trying to sort out and figure out who they're going to be. So it was a hippie era. And they just wanted to get away from the city. And so when they got away from the city, they went to this really kind

remote area called Warrington. And I remember, like, we didn't have running water and sometimes during the winters. And so we had to heat up our water and go to a well. And so there's some of that stuff. I was chopping wood at the age of eight. What were they thinking, putting an eight-year-old with an axe together. And so it was me figuring out the land, me figuring out nature, me figuring out how to, like, navigate in that space. And parents were active, but more laissez-faire. So there were not a lot of rules. And the rules were really good. governed by nature. And so the consequences when you play with nature is that there's swift responses. So you figured out some stuff about yourself and how you work in the ecosystem of the world.

And that's where I started. It was great. It was a wonderful environment. So would you say you had a lot of interaction with other kids or was it a lot of isolation in nature? Like how does that? It sounds like, yeah. It sounds like I'm like, I don't know, long hair, didn't shower. You know, no, no, it wasn't like that at all. And so I have a younger sister. So, There was not a lot of kids in the neighborhood. There was a family across the way. And, I mean, we weren't that close, but the kids were a little bit older. And so we had a couple kids over there that we'd play with.

But it was more of a school environment where most of the social engagement came from. So when do you start studying the mind? Like, how do you even get into that, make the transition from farm boy to, I'm going to go into psychology? Well, okay. So my dad got a job in corporate America that challenged him to leave, you know, as a growth opportunity. And he came to California.

And so imagine this hick, this hillbilly kid, you know, and I didn't have the same clothes. I didn't have the same anything, the same bicycles, the same experiences. I show up to California. And it was way cooler. It was a different world. And so I got the roots. It feels like I got roots from the farm. And then I came to the city.

And I was still in love with what nature had to teach and what it felt to be in nature. And so there was an interesting transition phase. And I figured out that my parents made some decisions about the family structure that caused me to figure out transition. So I was moved in the middle of grades often. And so middle of ninth grade. Who moves her kid in the middle? That's challenging. Yeah.

So it was ninth grade, the middle of, it was like four or five different transitions. I think I moved in sixth grade, third grade, and in kindergarten. I can't remember the early one. But there was like four or five transitions. So I figured out transitions relatively well. But the way that I figured out transitions as a kid is that I was anxious. So looking back, I had an anxious way about me. And then how do young men deal with anxiety?

Violence probably? Yeah. So I don't know how many fist fights you've been in. A lot. Yeah. A whole different podcast. Yeah, it's not cool, right? And so I've been in too many as well.

And it was a way to release the anxiousness that I was feeling. And I don't know what you feel like during a fist fight, but there's an incredible experience of adrenaline and power that is like unbridled. But I'm not bragging about that. No, no, you're going to a blackout. But there's a disgust afterwards. Yeah. And it feels awful.

So I came home one day. This is, I'm fast forward. I'm jumping around a little bit and it was too old to be in a fistfight. My wife says to me, what are you doing? Your wife? Yeah. So it was too old, right? Okay.

And so I'm jumping around a little bit. And she's, what are you doing? So I don't know. I'm disgusted with myself too. And so I made a comming. commitment at that point to say, I got to stop. I got to really, really examine, you know, what am I really doing with my life? Because I'm a bit out of control. And so the transitions, let me fill in some of the background here, is that I was as an age of 15, I was a little surfer

that was relatively good locally and regionally, but not good enough nationally. That wasn't part of the story. But I loved it. That was the thing that I loved. And come competition, time, I was significantly worse than I was in free surf. So there's two types of surfing, free surfing, where you're just out there doing your thing, and then there's the competitive angle. And something happened. Now, there was this moment in time where I was in a competitive environment and a competitor paddled by me that I surf with on a regular basis.

And he paddles by and he says, Jerva, I'm watching you. What are you doing? It's the same question again. Like, you're a mess. He goes, I don't know what to do. tell you, but you got to stop worrying about what could go wrong. He knew that I was better than I had more to give than I was actually giving in that competitive environment. And he also knew that my mind was screwed up. So that was the first real exposure that I had, this little nugget inside

as a 15-year-old grom, as we call each other, like wet behind the ears, literally in that moment. And he says, I know what's happening in your mind. You're thinking about all the things that could go wrong. And he paddled off. And I thought, well, okay, well, then what am I supposed to do? So if you had that gem, that type of experience, what would you do in that moment? Well, I guess, well, now in hindsight, you get really introspective and you start to try to figure out like, okay, what's triggering these reactions? Because if you know you're good freestyling, or what is that? Is that a good about freestyling? But then you get into competition.

There's obviously something because you're feeling some type of pressure or you're feeling some type of anxiety for, you know, maybe performing in front of people. So looking back, you'd get introspective. At the time, at 15, I don't know what I would have done. Yeah. Probably would have got angry. Do you feel like you had an epiphany at 15 years old? There was this little light bulb. It's not like this massive light bulb that I could point back to that's the moment.

But this is the story that I think best captures the experience of going, oh, the mind here is important. Now, what should I do? Okay, well, 15 year old kid says, well, let me start thinking about what should go right then. That's pretty unsophisticated, but it actually started to make a difference in my experience in that moment. So I didn't know there was such a thing as a field called psychology. at that point. So I started asking around like, hey, how does the mind work? How does the mind work? What are the things of mine? And so people started to introduce to me that there's an actual science around it. Now, I've kept in this, it's called the DSM. And it's the book of all mental disorders. And it's

kind of the quote unquote Bible of mental disorders. And it's the handbook, if you will, for clinical psychology. And I kept, I've kept in that. I'm licensed as a psychologist now with a specialty in sport and performance and a sub-specialty if there's such a thing in high-stikes, consequential, rugged environments where when mistakes happen, there's consequences. Okay. Like, way to elaborate on that. So maybe is that if somebody makes a mistake, how you fix it, or is there somebody, there's a trauma or explain that last part? Yeah.

So there's consequential environments and non-consequential. And in a consequential environment, when people make mistakes, there's a real cost. Okay. Either like a trader could lose a ton of money or in rugged environments, people can lose limbs, life, life of loved ones, that they're are depending on them as well. So super high stakes environments. I feel like you're like the therapist in billions. Have you seen that show? I just watched it. My wife and I are just watching it right now. You're the therapist

in millions. No, I'm not. No, I guarantee. I'm not female. I promise. No, I'm not. But I will say that what I appreciate that they've done in that show is that they've made her kind of normal. You know, like part of the ecosystem, right, where it's, They show that it is a natural part of improvement is getting your mind right. So as humans, let me step out for just a moment. As humans, there's only three things that we can train. We can train our craft, we can train our body, and we can train our mind. And what I've learned from the science, but also from the best thinkers and the most sophisticated doers in the world,

especially in high consequence environments. And by the way, we all have high consequence. We all have stressful experiences in life. So they have much to teach us. And what they've taught me is that the mind is really important, and I'm not leaving that up to chance. So I'm going to train my craft, I'm going to get my body right so I can do the things that are difficult to do.

And then I'm going to get my mind frame, my framework right. And then I'm going to get my skills, my mental skills right. And both of those are trainable. How? Well, that's kind of the, that should be, I think, the arc of this conversation is like, what do we do to actually train our mind? So I know that we've got questions, but do you want me to go back to the So I kind of want to go into a little bit.

So you train CEOs, coaches, athletes, all of the above. You've trained a lot of high performers. What's something that they have in common? What is something you see that these people have in common to perform at such a high level? And how do you step in and impact their life? That's a good question. Because there's so many ways I want to answer that. Give us all the ways.

Yeah. I wish there was like a M theory. Like there's a golden thread. I don't think it's that simple. It's multifaceted. People are multi-dimensional. There's components of environment, skill development, genetic coding. You know, it's like there's not one golden thread or one bright line.

But I will say that in a more esoteric way, what I do know is that those who are world-leading best in the world at what they do, they are spending more time in the present moment than you and I. And because high performance happens in the present moment and they are high performance. So high performance happens in the present moment, and then wisdom is also revealed there. So the more time you spend in the present moment, and that can sound trite in modern times, be in the present moment, be in the now, the set and the other, because mindfulness is on this wonderful hockey stick arc curve of interest in science and application. So there's something happening globally that's been noticed by many.

I've been practicing mindfulness for 20 years, but mindfulness is not enough alone. So when you say they're in the present, is this like, okay, let's take anxiety, for example, feeling anxious is maybe a fear of the past or a fear of the future, right? So are you saying that these performers spend less time in those areas than typical, than the average person? Well, yeah, they do spend more time in the present moment. They are better at it. So they're just laser focused on what they're doing? Well, how do they think about the future then?

Well, okay, so I also don't know a world leader. in whatever craft that we're talking about that doesn't believe the future is going to be great. Like they, as a basic primary framework, they are optimistic. Now, optimism is a trainable skill. We don't come out of the womb, optimistic or pessimistic. You know, and we learn cynicism. We learn, you know, the strategies to think about the future. So optimism and pessimism are a basic lens that we see the future through.

So how did you learn it? mom and dad taught you, pop media taught you, your friends taught you, you know, and so I'll tell you, I can't think of a better investment than to reinvest into an optimistic framework that's grounded in reality. Can you teach someone that? Oh yeah, there's good science around it, there's good practices, you know, and I'm happy to talk about. I don't know if that's what, yeah, what are some of the steps that you tell these performers, how do you get them in that optimistic mindset? No, not, let's say somebody's struggling with fear, right? And how, like, And I think what Lauren's saying is how do you get them in a mindset where they can start to perform and get out of it, whether it's fear or anxiety or stress?

Like, how do you get them in the right head space to start performing again? Okay. And I know it's probably an individual approach. Well, yes and no. Just as a marker to this conversation, they already know how. They're already the best in the world or one of them. And the three of us know how. By definition, you've already experienced times when you've been really on it, when you've been in the right frame of mind.

And so figuring out what that looks like and sounds like and feels like and what are the conditions that help amplify it, that's all important to do. So it's not like I'm running into the relationship with this golden key and says, hey, here's the kingpin, we're just going to put this in place and you're going to be great. That's not it. There's a high regard. The orientation from me is a high regard for the person. person's experiences that they've lived in their life and that there's everything that they need is already inside them. And so that thought, I think, is really important as a reminder that everything you need is already inside you. Now, if they say, listen, when I'm at my best, I'm loving the

idea that the future is going to be amazing. But right now, I'm kind of struggling with it. So we'll deconstruct a little bit like, okay, well, when in the past, you know, are you optimistic? Okay, good. You want to train that? You want to get sharper at that? And they say, yeah, sure, I do. So, okay, now that we can, now we can start to put in a set of practices to help amplify that. So there's a good piece of research out of UPenn, University of Pennsylvania, where they took a look at the three, they followed people for seven days, and they said, okay, there's what we want to do. We want to amplify your ability to be optimistic. So write down and track three amazing things that happen per day.

So become a researcher of good, basically, right? a researcher of amazing. So you wake up with this intent, I'm going to become a research of amazing, real things that happen in my life today that are amazing. At the end of they write them down. After they track them for seven days, there's significant changes in what I would consider all the right factors that would be the precursors to optimism. So that's only a seven-day experience.

So follow-ons with 30 days. What happens if you train that for 30 days? And then the third piece to this component is, why do I say 30 days? Because it's a little bit more robust, right, when you extend it out a little bit longer. And that's something that I would say 70% of people I spend time with, we get on that program, right? Like just becoming a researcher amazing. It organizes what we think is happening is it organizes a smaller network in our neural structure. So the majority of our neural structure is scanning the world to find what's dangerous.

Okay, threat management. We need that. Our ancestors gave us that gift to find what's dangerous, what's not going to keep us alive, right? bad smells, bad situations, you know, frowning men and women, you know, postures that seem intimidating, noises that are scary. So our brain is designed to scan the world in find what's dangerous. So smaller part is designed to capture opportunity. And that's what we need to train. We need to literally override much of our DNA and amplify the parts that are going to maximize our ability to be in the present moment more often.

And there's a good science around it. So start with the seven-day process, extended to 30 days. And then what we've found from a piece of research is those that train that same process that we're just talking about with a loved one and then do a pillow talk. They share over time, like each night the three amazing things that happen. There's an increase in quality of relationships. We're doing that pillow talk tonight. More pillow talk.

Hopefully your three amazing things are me, me, and me. Yeah. If they're not, if my three amazing things aren't, then I'm going to have to write, I'm going to have some other things that are going to have to write down to get me out of it. And they can be small, like I saw an ant. Oh, it can be that small. Oh, for sure. Well, you think what you're saying is, I mean, is a default as human beings.

Like, we've, throughout history, we have the fight or flight, you know, gene in us, right? People have a tendency to look towards bad things, right? So we have to train ourselves to look towards good things because the default was like, hey, this bad thing happened, this other bad thing happened. Then you go down the spiral. So you have to get into a mindset, I think what you're saying, of looking for the little things. and over time, that trains you to stop looking at the bad things. So what you're saying. Pretty much.

I mean, if we're going to be in the present moment, we, it's, our attention, our, one of the ways our brain is wired is called serial functioning, serial processing. And so we can only attend a one new bit of information at a time. We can only have one emotion at a time as well. So we can flip-flot back and forth quickly. But if we can condition and train our minds to find what's amazing in this moment, and it's a precursor to finding what's, that the future could be full of these things as well. And if you're, if you're deeply focused on something that's good in this moment,

not in a naive way. But you, we think that this, by the way, is at the center of mental toughness. To have the mental discipline and toughness to focus on what's good right now, even when there's other bits of information that are coming in that say, you're getting your ass kicked. You know, this is why, so I'm partners with head coaches Seattle, Seahawks, Pete Carroll, and a business venture. And this is why we think that we are ridiculous in fourth quarter comebacks because we stay in it and we stay in it and we're down by 30 points. So what? The next play is going to be amazing.

You know, oh, we just turned the ball over. So what? The next defense is going to get back. It's going to be amazing. We got some serious studs on the field. So let's keep grinding. Let's keep going. And so Coach Carroll's created this amazing competitive cauldron for people to be disciplined in finding

what's good. It'd be uncommon, relentlessly so and not in a naive way. I like that. Yeah, that's really good. So you talk about fear and obstacles as being teachers. Can you tell our audience your thought process in regards to fear and obstacles? Yeah. Again, you guys are asking like textured questions.

These are really good thoughtful questions. What would you like to know about those? I think, well, you touched on it a little bit, right? Like basically mental toughness. And I don't think you can, and correct me if I'm wrong, I don't think you can develop mental toughness without some hard times, right? I don't think you can't. I always think you have to get uncomfortable to get comfortable.

Yeah, I've heard you talk about this and touch on a little bit. I think it was a question, Tim Ferriss asked that you were saying what you would teach in high school classes if you could. And you said you probably couldn't teach it because of the day and age we live in. It's going to be a little dangerous. How do you look at developing mental toughness and kind of conquering obstacles and teaching the mind to bear through hard times? Okay, so we're looking at a couple substrates, you know, or subcomponents of mental toughness. So mental toughness conjures up this idea that, I'm going to ram my head through the wall until the wall breaks.

I don't think that's it, right? That's like an old idea of mental toughness. There certainly is some sort of, I don't know, chrome magnum way about doing things that is important. Like doing hard, difficult things for an extended period of time creates adaptations. And without adaptations, there's no growth. So we need to put our systems under great pressure and stress

and then recover properly to grow. Putting yourself under stressful environments is really important. But also noticing, not noticing, knowing the difference between acute stress and chronic stress. So what we're trying to do is manipulate acute stress and then give systems for people to relieve chronic stress, become, move from a sympathetic activated organism, which is the on, if you will, the gas pedals down, into something that is more regulated, which is a parasympathetic activation, where there's a bit of a response system where people can settle into the moment. And there's lots of physiological things that can do that.

And there's also mental things to do that. Psychological. And so if you think about the brain, the brain is really what the system is driven by. But that's a hardware. But there's a software that's running the brain, which is the mind. And so they're intimately linked, but we want to pull them apart to be able to train each one of those up. And so there's things we can do, like alignment, like breathing. like posture, like, yes, as we all structure to set up a little better.

All of those make a difference in the signaling to our body, from our body, about how we're doing. The software is really important as well. So having a conversation with you guys asking hard questions about how something complicated works, if I walk in and I say, oh my God, oh my God, oh my God, I don't want to screw up, well, the software is going to win there and signal the brain to say, okay, you've got to be on. this is hostile. Or I can say, God, this is a great, I'm so stoked to be here. This is a great opportunity for us to talk. Like, I wonder where this is going to go. And then so it sends a different signal to the brain. But if my posture is screwed up and I'm kind of in an anxious

or scared posture literally, then my body's going, I don't believe the software. Software's not right. Software's weak. It's not right. The body is going to win most of the time. The brain is going to win most of the time unless you train your mind. So it's kind of touching on this. I was thinking as you were talking, you work with so many competitive people, right? Like, people, Super Bowl winners, right? Like, the highest of the high. How do you look at, you know, kids these? And I think I was maybe one of the last generations I was talking to our producer

Ray yesterday about this. Like, how do you look at like eighth place trophies and stuff like that? How do you, like rewarding kids for, and listen, I know there's a sense that I'm probably going to get backlash and people are going to shit on me and it's going to be a problem, but I don't like, I don't like eighth place trophies. I don't like, I think it's like, what's the point, right? It's making soft people, right? People are getting soft.

No, the IOC, the International Olympic Committee, has recognized that we're going to give three of those things out. That's it. There's only, there's a three. That's all we're getting. So, you know, that's an important position. But I think the more important conversation is helping people understand the process to get glimpses of their potential. Okay. So that's a really important skill for parents and coaches and teachers.

But how do you do that if you reward? No, no, no. Okay, they're separate. Yeah, I like where you're going with that. So what is the process to help people get closer to understanding what is possible for them? And the second is paying more attention to what's called an Ipsative result. So a result that is relative to you. So if you get an eighth place reward, but you swam a PR, that's a win.

Who cares about the trophy? Like the trophy is just the symbol that you participated in how you did relative to others. And I'll tell you what. it's going to sound like I'm going to get on my little soapbox here right now. We are plagued as a country for sure and maybe a global country as a global citizen. We're plagued by what other people think of us. And it is, it's time. We're fatigued by it.

We're overrun by it. We're running our systems into the ground where literally you've heard of FOMO. Yeah. Fear of other people missing out. You heard of YOLO. You only have once. So I'm going to introduce a new one to you guys. Okay.

Okay. I think this is at the center of one of the great ailments. of modern men and women is FOPO, fear of other people's opinions. And so it is time that we switch the model that I need to do more to be more. And the thought that I need to do extraordinary things to be extraordinary is broken. Yeah, but how do you tell a world-class performer that? Well, they're telling me. Okay.

Yeah, they are sorting that out. They're saying, listen, this amazing. You know, I've got a Bentley. I got 14 goal watches. I've got amazing this, that, and the other. My 14 different houses. You know, they're like, I've got the things. And I'm doing the amazing things.

But that's not, it's not enough. And it never will be. So what is enough is the knowing that you matter, the knowing that you have purpose in life, that you know how to live in the present moment in an authentic way and express what's authentic about you, whether it's your craft or your ideas. And to let the doing flow forward.

from that authentic being. So instead of do more to be more, we're seeing people flip it. And the best in the world are flipping it saying, no, my job is to be here, be grounded, be authentic, be here now more often, and let the doing flow from there. And not only are the results becoming extraordinarily amplified,

but the experience in life is also now in a whole different way. And so I don't know. I think that that is one of the key indicators of illness. So you touched on this again, authenticity, and that word's getting thrown a lot around a lot lately, right? How do you define authenticity and how do you apply it to an individual? What's been thrown around since like Socrates and Aristotle and, you know, some of the great thinkers.

I think the word's getting stretched, right? So I'd be interested to know how you define it. It's used a lot in social media with influencers and bloggers, a lot. So I'm not snapped into that world properly, so I wouldn't know that. I don't know the context that they're using it. They might be using it in the right ways, which is, but. But there is a, it's interesting that you're saying that because maybe it reinforces in some naive ways. What I'm saying is that there is a craving for it.

So, right, there's a craving for it. So was your question, what is authenticity? No, not what is authenticity, but how can someone, what do you define as someone being truly authentic? Right. Like, if you're talking to somebody, how do you define, and they're saying, I'm up being authentic in your coaching them. How do you say, call, how do you call bullshit or how do you say, yeah, you are? Like, what's the parameters there? Okay.

Okay. Well, okay, the first part is what are the guiding principles in your life? What are the values and the guiding principles? And those are separate. So do you have a philosophy that's organizing your life? And a philosophy is a word that's been around for a long time. And again, back to some of the original thinkers and philosophers. What are the guiding principles in your life? I don't know if you have one. But without one, it's really hard to get enough forward momentum to do extraordinary things and to be extraordinary in your life. If there's an audience member out there that wants to create a philosophy, how would you recommend going about that? So, yeah, I'll pull back the curtain and talk about it.

Almost every large room that I've been in and asked an audience, you know, like who here has their philosophy, probably about 40% of the people raise their hand. And then I say, great, how many of you would like to come up and say your philosophy on stage? And about half of those drop their hand. So we got about 20%, 10% somewhere in that range. And I say, great. Okay, seriously, someone come up and let's, you know, get your, see if you can get your philosophy out in a handful of words.

No takers, for the most part, unless there's a narcissist in the room. They're just going to talk, right? Yeah, so most people haven't done that work. So your question is not for a listener, the rare listener. I think it's for most people, is what are the guiding principles? So the first way to think about it is you've got to get a pen and paper out for most people to anchor it. Because when you write, there's a forcing function that takes place of all the words in your native tongue. What are the 20 words or 10 words that matter most to you?

And so that's a significant piece of work to get done. But how do you start? Well, write down some words in haphazard ways. And that's one way. Just what are the words that matter to you most? Another way is what are the people that inspire you? So what did Martin Luther King Jr. Stand for?

What was his philosophy? Quality. Right. How do you know that? I know it through reading history, but obviously just his messaging and the way he was and bringing people together and the things he spoke about. That's right. So exactly. So what he's done, this is mapping back to authenticity.

So what he's done is he's lined up his thoughts and his words and his actions in just about every environment. Right. So when you think of him, you think. of the thing that the guiding principle that mattered most to him now he had a style about him as well those are the value system so his value system was to do it without harming others okay now let's take an equal and different example which is malcolm x so what did he stand for equality but he had a very different value system we're going to do it by any means necessary and yes we're going to raise arms and we're going to raise guns okay so they both have the same guiding principle but different

value structures that really became their style. So when you say what is authenticity, they are able to line up their thoughts, their words, and their actions in any environment because they're principle-based rather than ego-based, rather than I need to look a certain way, to be a certain way. None of that is about authenticity. Yeah, no. It's like they have the real conviction to carry the things that matter most of them in any environment.

And so that's someone who's authentic. You spoke about ego and you deal with the high performing athletes. How does that kind of intertwine and how do you deal with it? There's a lot of it. I bet. And rightfully so in many ways. There's a piece of research that elite athletes overestimate their skills and abilities. Isn't that interesting?

They overestimate. But that's not surprising, right? But don't you kind of have to be like that? Well, they've defied odds in most of their, you know, challenges. They are the one percenters, half percenters. Wherever they came from from their family structure, most don't come from two Olympian mothers and fathers. Like, I will say this, that most of the best in the world are, remember I said, there's no

bright line. They live in the present moment more often. They have the right genetic coding that's matched the environment, and the environment has supported and challenged them in all the right ways, and they've worked hard, most of them. They're hardly crazy half-percenters of the half-percenters that eat McDonald's and pizza and show up and they're just freaks. They jump 42 inches. They could lift whatever you put in front of them. Chad Ochosinko.

Yeah. Like it's just, it's outrageous. Most of them are working hard at their craft, though. Right. And then so there's another bright line in here is that they are more like you and me than you would imagine. How so? They're neurotic. Yeah, I can see that.

They're coming. Why are you working so hard? And this is a question for the two of you. Why are you guys working so freaking hard to create this amazing podcast and experience in your business? Like, why are you working so hard? It's a question that I revisit more and more often. And my answers have changed a lot over time. His answers have changed a lot.

A lot of time. I think that comes to getting punched in the face a few times, both literally and emotionally. But your face still looks good. I'm doing all right. But yeah, no, I don't know. Was that awkward? No, no, no. I appreciate it.

My answers have changed. I do it now more for family and for legacy and for, you know, bringing others up and, you know, helping others as opposed to, you know, before my views were probably off. It was probably a little bit more material and a little bit more self-servicing. But, yeah, now it's changing over time. I think recently I've gotten out of the space of worrying so much about, you know, about what other people think. I don't dwell too much on that anymore. It's still, you know, something that everybody has to battle. but definitely done some growing over the last few years.

What happens for most people is they talk about why they're doing what they're doing when they're really honest is they wanted to know that they mattered. Yeah. That they belonged. And one way to do that was to get the attention from their parents was to do tricks really well, you know, or their uncle or whatever, you know, like let me do my tricks really well. And oh my gosh, I'm getting attention. And so that can be negative attention by let me let me burn something, let me break something,

let me get a bad grade, let me get in a fight. Or can be positive attention. like let me get A's and this, that and the other. So people that do extraordinary things from a young age, like they're really craving something. And so maybe. Are we having a therapy session here? No, no, no, no.

Listen, I'm, I don't. But I agree with you. This is an important question to take a look at, you know? It is. And if we peel back some curtains or peel back some onion layers about your parents, there's probably something in there that we could find. Oh, shit. Let's peel back that onion.

Well, Michael, it's been great having you on you. Yeah. there's definitely something there my reason is different than his mine is I have such a vision in my head and I can't imagine leaving this earth without executing on the vision um legacy to me doesn't matter because I'm going to be dead is that weird no I don't look at legacy like I know what you're saying um no not like legacy I just like you said I think it's basically doing something that matters but not just for myself right you don't want to leave you don't want to leave the footprint and be like oh that guy just did something for himself like you want to

leave you want to leave with a contribution right so that that is where we start to see that transition right is where you start to say well okay i feel grounded i feel like i'm i'm settling into some purpose i'm settling into i just knowing that i'm okay and i matter and i independent of the things that i'm going to do in my life so if i'm going to do some things yeah let me see if i can take care of other people along the way now in modern times people are just saying that some people are just saying that and it's not real It's not authentic, right? They know that that's the right strap line for a successful look. And they're like, oh, no, I'm doing this altruistically.

Bullshit. Many of you are doing it because you want to look good. And I sound like a jerk saying that. But that's where we start to pick up this inauthenticity. Just the other day, my wife says, you know, we just met at somebody. And she said, hey, what was that like for you? I said something didn't match. And so he said the words that he said to me as he reached out and shook my hand were,

I've been looking forward to meeting you, but it was a straight arm handshake and he took a half step back. So it was like he's pushing away. Yeah, right? So I'm not going to read too much into it, but that's just it just, it didn't hit me until afterwards. I wasn't processing in the moment, right? But we are really good machines at making meaning. That's a big part of what our mind and brain are trying to figure out making meaning of this moment. And so there was just an incongruency there that took place.

And so it makes all of us our intent to pop up like, do I believe what I'm saying? Because the words were great, but the body's structure didn't quite match. And so when we talk about authenticity, there's layers to it. There's multiple layers to it. Well, I think what happens is when you're looking in that, like say you're looking for self-service or material wealth, you can only do that for so long until you realize it's not fulfilling, right? And that, you know, I've lived that life. You're good. And you're like, wow, I'm doing everything right.

This is what I'm supposed to be doing. You're getting these things. then you look and you're like, shit, none of this stuff is making me happy. And really nobody cares. That's the other thing, right? You're doing it for other people. When you look around and realize, nobody cares. So then you have to really do some self-searching and say, okay, what matters? How do I have an impact? How do I have a contribution? That's what I think I'm driven by now. Do you like the way Tony Robbins breaks it down where he says the science of achievement and the art of fulfillment? Pass the water.

Do we have something to think? All right. Let's switch gears. Let's discuss failure. So how do you think about failure? And do you have any advice for anyone who's out there and listening and dealing with a big failure? I love that question. I love the thought about failure because you will hear in modern times fail fast, fail forward, fail often, failures of what makes you. I don't know about that.

You know, I really don't. I think that it's important to potentially reorganize the definition of failure. So mistakes are really important. make some mistakes, right? Because that teaches you about your capacity. That teaches you about your skill development. And so if you're not making mistakes, you're playing it safe. I agree.

Yeah. And so there's no real growth, amazing growth arc from playing it safe. Okay. So let's talk about failure. I think what failure is, is the not going for it. The not willingness or ability to make mistakes. I so agree with you. Yeah, you can be successful.

You can get the right outcome on some byline. You can get the right outcome, but still be a failure because you never really chipped in or pushed in. And so the way that we think about failure is the inability or the unwillingness to really let it go, to let it rip. And so mistakes, we encourage them. And we encourage as many mistakes as we possibly can up on the edge of your capacity. And so that's when your heart is beaten. That's when you've got an environmental situation where you're perceiving it to be dangerous, where you're perceiving it to be stressful.

So either we've got to upskill your technical skills, your physical capacities, or your mental skills. And likely it's all three of them for most of us. And so we just see failure, I think, in a different way, which is the not willingness to let it rip. What's some of the worst advice you've ever heard? Oh. Oh. You're like, let me pull out my scroll, hold on. Maybe in regards to failure or success, if you need to.

Hold on. I mean, I think if we picked up any Instagram kind of slogan page, there'd be lots of awful slogans that we can find. You know, I think that any time that we start to make it simple, and I think that piece of advice gets problematic. And so I don't have one that comes to my head, but. I'm sure on social media you're seeing a lot of, of different quotes and different things.

Yeah, I think it's a good attempt to try to get people to, I don't know, change some thoughts and behaviors, but it is difficult to change thoughts and behaviors. It is really difficult to do initially because thoughts are invisible. And so sloganism doesn't work. And sloganism, when you see like these slogans that are loosely thread together, we're getting moments, motivation is momentary. So we get these motivation moments, but not real deep commitment to make change. And so there's one that I see somewhat often that resonates, you know, kind of weird way to me, which is, hey, somebody else is grinding. You should be grinding. Hey, you know, like somebody else is trying to take your job. No, no. Like, yeah, that's true. Okay. But if we're just trying to be better than the next guy, we'll never find freedom. We'll never find potential. So we talked about glimpses of potential earlier. Glimpses of potential happen when you can string together a sequence of moments. And,

then you can reveal what is possible, but you've got to get those moments to link. We only get 1,440 minutes a day. And so within that moment, there's seconds, right? 60 seconds per minute. So literally the work to reveal your potential is to snap into as many seconds that turn into minutes, you know, in time. And when you can get glimpses of those experiences, you go, oh, my God, that's really what is possible for me.

And sometimes we need other people around us to say, what did that feel like? That looked amazing. That seemed like you were really in a great spot, you know, and to help us deconstruct that way. So it's not always apparent to ourselves. We've covered a lot of stuff in a pretty short time. I kind of want to end it. We've talked a lot about failure and struggle and mindset. How do you define success at this point? It is something that I think about a lot. And I've asked that question, scores of times, you know, and I think about it a lot. So success for me is being here and then being authentic with the way that I'm conducting my thoughts, my words, and my actions.

And so with success, there's a freedom that takes place. And that inner freedom, if I can get it just right, there's a creativity that is the output. So success for me is about being in the present moment and authentically sharing my thoughts, my ideas, my words, and then having the actions line up. And has it always been that way? No, no, it hasn't. At one point, I think you would recognize this, like, I wanted to win. Yeah. You know, and so what I've come to appreciate, though, is like winning comes and goes,

but the process is always available. Like, you know, and so if I can get better at now, that's pretty damn good. And then what does that really look like over time? It means I'm deeply connected to people. And so at the center, we are social beings. And so at the center of success is going to be some relationship with myself to be on time now and then to be more connected to other people. What's a book or resource that you can recommend to our audience before you go? Well, I think that there's lots of good authors of modern time.

There's interesting ideas that are published every day, scores of them. And I could flip through a bunch of those. But I would start with the books that have stood up over time, books of the ages, if you will. the most significant books over time tend to be great, you know, and they also tend that the 11 world religions all have a book. Go read the other one. The prelineal sellers. What, yeah, go read another one, you know, like if you're deeply invested in Christianity or

Buddhism or whatever, yeah, keep reading that one. That's good. Like, you're on to something probably, you know, and then, but read another one. Go check out what that, that, that, in one billion people of the world, two billion and people, what are they inspired by? So, yes, there are modern authors that are good. I'd say Tal De Ching. Go check out the Taoist Bible, if you will.

It's complicated. Do it with another person. Talk about it. Was it allowed to? Yeah. Yeah. So the Da De Ching, 81 principles. That's great advice.

It's a tough book, but... Where can everyone find you on your podcast, on your Instagram? Pimp yourself out. Pimp yourself out. You're a smart dude, man. People got to find you. Yeah, no, thank you for. And again, thank you guys for the time spending this conversation. I was stoked to come meet you guys. Yeah, you're awesome. Oh, no, no, thank you. Yeah, this was, we're part to have you. Yeah, cool. Thank you. So social media. At Michael Gerva is Twitter, and that's G-E-R-V-A-I-S. And you can also find finding mastery.net is where our podcast is. And then we've got Instagram, which is Finding Mastery. LinkedIn is Michael Jerva. And so I'm spending a lot of time on LinkedIn lately.

And then my business venture with Coach Carroll is called Compete to Create. And it's a compete to create.net. And what we've done is we've taken his intellectual property on how to switch on an environment. And then my IP around how to train the minds of people who want to be their very best. And it's like this one plus one didn't equal two anymore. It literally equaled 11. And we've just really enjoyed how this has gone. And we shared our practices with enterprise companies.

And so we've built an online scalable business where we've hired a limit. Olympians and sports psychologists, train them on how we think and how we do things to bring the best out of people. And then to map that onto in corporate environments. And it's been an awesome business. I hope everyone's making their list of amazing things that have happened to them tomorrow. I'm going to have to start my list today. This interview could be number one. Oh, good.

Yeah. So let me just sharpen that. You write down a sentence and then a word at the end that captures why it was amazing. So I saw an aunt. God's funny. Right? That's a good one. Thank you so much for coming on.

That was so interesting. Guys, don't forget that we have the new TSC, him and her hotline, set up and ready for you. If you want a chance to have questions or comments featured on the show, simply call 1-833 Skinnies. That's S-K-I-N-N-Y-S and leave a message. How easy is that? Be sure to leave your first name, city, state, and social handle. Let's get those Instagrams blasted out. The message will have a chance to be played on the show.

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