The Bossticks - #123: Listener Calls with Jack Ketsoyan - Arranged Marriages, Celebrity PR. How To Interview, & Hollywood Stories

Episode Date: July 12, 2018

This is our first official Thursday episode. Due to the demand of the show and amount of interviews, we have decided to up our show to 6 per month. You can expect a new full length episode every other Thursday. On this episode we answer some listener calls from our new hotline (1-833-SKINNYS) and sit down with celebrity public relations expert Jack Ketsoyan. We answer a listener questions on how to start a new business and a question on how to pick interviews.With Jack we discuss how PR has evolved with the rise of social media and the internet. We also dive into arranged marriages and what it takes to make it in the world of PR. To connect with Lauryn Evarts click HERE To connect with Michael Bosstick click HERE Read More on The Skinny Confidential HERE To Call the Him & Her Hotline call: 1-833-SKINNYS (754-6697) For Detailed Show Notes click HERE  This episode was brought to you by Grove Collaborative.   Grove Collaborative offers healthy alternatives to household supplies and we use it for all of our cleaning supplies. To try grove collaborative go to www.grove.co/skinny Listeners will receive 30 dollars in free supplies a special gift and a 60 day VIP membership.    This Episode was Brought to you by Sunday Scaries   Sunday Scaries are CBD gummies made with vitamin B-12 and D-3. They will boost your mood and help you relax when you are feeling stressed and anxious. Unlike THC, CBD is non-psychoactive so you don't have to worry about cognitive impairment. Sunday Scaries will relax you and relieve tension and paranoia. To try Sunday Scaries go to www.sundayscaries.com and enter promo code TSC10 for 10% off.

The following podcast is a dear media production. This episode is brought to by Sunday Scaries. So let's talk about the Sunday Scaries. Everyone knows what I'm talking about. It's very real. And now it's one of our favorite new products. So you guys know that feeling of regret and anxiousness on a Sunday? You guys know what I mean.

When you have to work the next day and you've been raging all weekend, maybe making wild and crazy decisions. I mean, I feel like Michael probably has that feeling every day. I mean, he has the everyday scaries. Anyway, for the rest of us, we get the Sunday Scaries. And now we have a fix for you guys. So Sunday Scaries are CBD Gummies made with vitamin B12 and D3. They'll boost your mood and help you relax when you're feeling stressed and anxious. Unlike THC, CBD is a non-psychoactive so you don't have to worry about tripping out or feeling all weird. It will just relax you and relieve tension and paranoia. So head over to sundayscaries.com and use promo code TSC. 10 for 10% off. That's Sundayscarries.com and use promo code TSC10 for 10% off. She's a lifestyle blogger extraordinaire. Fantastic.

And he's a serial entrepreneur. A very smart cookie. And now Lauren Everts and Michael Bostic are bringing you along for the ride. Get ready for some major realness. Welcome to the skinny confidential, him and her. Aha. For some odd reason, people were really. really shocked about the fact that there's arranged marriages or there's arranged dating life in Hollywood.

Can you give us some details of one of the stories in the book? Well, and one of the characters is dating a certain person in the book that is just completely arranged for a look. I call her the beard. She's the beard. And this really happened? It really happened. And who arranges this?

Well, you know, most of the time it's the agents who will make the connection or the studio at the time was like, hey, we need to have something come out about, you know, some kind of a controversial publicity stunt we need to do. So let's get this going. Welcome back to the skinny confidential him and her show. If you are new, thank you for joining. If you're not new, thank you for coming back. That clip was from our guests of the show today, Jack Ket Soyan. On this episode, we answer a couple listener questions from our new hotline. We dive into the world of celebrity public relations, and we learn about some of Hollywood's darkest secrets. Dun, dun, dun, darn. Lauren. I'm Lauren Everts. I'm the creator of the Skinny Confidential, which is a blog, a brand book, and obviously a podcast.

And I'm Michael Bostick. I am an entrepreneur and business operator. I have specialized in brand building and direct to consumer marketing over the last 10 years. Most recently, the CEO of Dear Media, a new kind of podcast network that focus on female hosts and voices and audiences. And it's Thursday. It's Thursday. This is our first Thursday episode. Plot twist. Plot twist. Well, it's not a plot twist. I mean, we've been. announcing it. If you listened a few weeks back, we said that we would be uping the monthly shows to six. So every other Thursday now, you can look for a full-length episode. It's not a bonus episode. It's not a mini episode. It's not a quick episode. Nothing half-ass. No, it's a full episode. Full ass. As you guys know, we wanted to continue to do the interviews, but we also wanted to do some solo episodes. So in order to get to those interviews, as well as the solo episodes, we needed

to up the count to six. So you can look forward to six episodes each month. Lots of value, lots of quality, lots of fun, and connecting with you guys because we now have the skinny hotline. And a lot of arguments the night before when we do the intros because sometimes we butt heads, Lauren, on these intros. It's late at night, night before, Wednesday night. We're not going to fight six times a month. You know what I'm talking about. We already fight for.

So today, Thursday, July 12th, that's when this is airing. As you guys know, we are doing our live event tonight in L.A. And if you're in the L.A. area, come on by. It's at the Grove and the event is free. Seats are limited, but if you get there early, there still should be some space. So to check it out and get more details, if you haven't already heard the last few episodes, go to DeerMedia.com slash live. I'm so excited.

This is going to be fun. We are podcasting tonight with cupcakes in cashmere, Emily Schumann and Jeffrey Fuller. They're behind the brand, and we're so excited to, like, see a different side of them. We're going to ask some real deal questions. Yeah, we're going to hit them with some hard questions. We're going to find out some real data. I don't know what we're going to do. We're going to have fun with it.

I feel like hard's not the word, but okay. It's going to be a him and her twist. Okay. And I'm a little bit nervous because we've never done a live event. And you guys know I'm not the best live speaker. I'm practicing, practicing work in progress. But we'll see. Yeah, we will see.

I feel like I need to give you a Kampari soda with a little bit of, like, calm in it. I'm going to have a drink before. And it's actually probably going to be my last drink for another. I'm going to do another month off, maybe two because I'm starting to get a little wine gut again, a little wine pouch. I saw that this morning when I woke up. So it's not pretty. You know, that trip to New York eating all that pasta and then the, you know, the booze and

started to get a little like kangaroo pouch. Not looking good on me. Okay. So before we get into the calls, I want to tell you guys about Grove Collaborative. So I'm annoyed, okay? I'm annoyed with spray tans, actually, which is like so weird that I am. I love them more than life, but it just gets everywhere. It's in the shower, on the kitchen table, the dining room table, white couch, white anything.

You get it. I used to just leave it when I was living alone, but now that I'm married, I can't get away with that stuff anymore. Yeah, because that shit gets everywhere. So here's the problem. I'm not a big chemical-filled cleaning supply kind of girl, okay? I don't want to clean the spray tan with a bunch of cleaning supplies. Like not at all. I actually have a very hard time with this dilemma. But today, I could not be more excited because I finally found the solution. So there's this thing called the method, okay? It's an all-natural. pink grapefruit cleaner that saved my life and my goals and if you know me you know I love grapefruit okay I love pink and I love something that can clean up my spray tan the second it gets on my white counter okay you should know that I get all of my cleaning supplies from Grove collaborative okay Grove makes it easy to discover the best non-toxic products so when I shop on grove.com I'm confident

that I'm selecting items that are good for me my home the planet my spray tan Michael everyone. None of the products are tested on animals, which we love. So here's the deal. I got to go, you got to go, we're all busy. So I like to have one spot that I grab all my natural cleaners in. You know, I'm not running around from store to store. It's too crazy. So instead I get it all online in one spot. Grove Collaborative is giving you guys one of the best offers ever. I'm super excited about this. And you have to pick up my pink grapefruit spray. Okay. There's other household supplies. I like to order the seventh generation laundry detergent. You guys know I've used this forever. It's one that I like to use on our sheets. I mean, if you're laying your head on your pillow every single night for seven to eight

hours, let's hope, you want to keep it clean. It's your pillowcases. I also like to use the dishwasher detergent by seventh generation. If you're eating off your plates and using utensils every day, which I'm sure you guys are, you want to keep it clean. So like I said, Grove Collaborative has it all in one spot. It's all the natural items, okay? It's your home. You carry a, about your furniture, you want to keep your white couch clean like me, and now it's important to care about what you're cleaning your home with. I like safe ingredients, and I'm sure you guys do too. So it's all your home essentials in one spot, and they do the work for you because it's all natural, like I said. They also price match so you know you're getting the best deal ever.

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That's grove.com, not dot com slash skinny. Okay, we're going to answer a couple listener questions from the hotline just to try it out. Little dry run, Lauren. Is that what you call it, a dry run? Sure, Michael. The first one is from Jenny B. Jenny from the block. Hi, Lauren.

Hi, Susan. I hope you guys are doing well. I am from Las Cruces, New Mexico, and my social media handle is J-E-N-I-B-E-E-E-E. So that's Jenny B. I was calling you guys because I had a question of. about starting up businesses, where do you start from scratch? I am really curious about just starting up when you literally have no idea where to start and you have no education.

So you can answer that for me. That'd be great. Have a good one. Bye. Jenny B, B, B, B, B, B. I feel like we've talked about this a few times, but I'm happy to talk about it again. So I think when you're starting a new business, it's really important to not overthink it. So many people get overwhelmed and they start to think from A to Z.

and we've covered this on past episodes, but when you start to think from A to Z, like, how can I build this massive business or how can I leave my job and do this massive thing? It starts to become overwhelming. And then what happens is you get scared and then you don't take chances or you don't start that new business. In my opinion, the best thing to do when you're starting out is think A to B. Say you have an idea and you have an idea for a new venture or a new business or brand. What can you do today that doesn't, that's cost effective that you can actually implement right now to move towards that step? Think A to D. to B instead of A to Z. And from there, you're going to go A to B to C. And I think that's the most important.

In terms of education, I mean, there's so many resources. I mean, you have the internet at your disposal. Now there's books, there's courses, there's podcasts. There's so many things that you can do to figure out how to start your process into the entrepreneurial world. Everything I've ever started, let's take Dear Media, for example, like we started this podcast out of our living room and since then grew the show and now manage another 16 shows. So it all starts from actually taking a step forward and doing what you can at the time and moving forward and constant progression. I think when people overthink it, they psych themselves out and then they never get started. And another thing that entrepreneurs need to know is that a lot of the things you need to know, you cannot know until you actually get started and make some mistakes.

Lauren, what do you think? I think that a lot of people, when they sort of have a vision instead of doing like a strategic future, they sort of do a vision board, okay? And I am not a fan of a vision board. I think that a vision board, in my opinion, and this is really harsh, is a waste of time. So what I would do instead of a vision board is an execution board. And what an execution board looks like is it looks like your future designed out on a poster board. And the reason that I say a poster board over Pinterest is that Pinterest is great and it's awesome, but you close out the tab and you go on with your life. With an execution board that's right in front of your face where you're actually pulling textiles and pulling colors from maybe Home Depot

paint section or where you're doing fonts and like pulling it out and actually building your vision in front of your face. There's something different. And what I mean by that is like a vision board is like magazine cutouts of words or other people or what. It's like inspiration. Yeah. It's it's so inspirational. I think instead of the inspiration you should cut that and you should really work towards actually building what you want to build on paper. Does that make sense? I think we're saying the same thing. have to create concrete steps and resources so that you can actually take the steps to get started. Yeah, I think a lot of people make excuses of why they can't do things, but when you have an execution board in front of your face, you can actually see what your strategic future is going

like in front of you. Yeah, and let's just say this. Again, going back to the Dear Media example, I didn't study broadcasting in college. I didn't have any kind of educational background in broadcasting. Either did Lauren. We didn't, or I guess you did college. Did you study women? I studied a lot of women, mostly anatomy. But no, I think. It's important to understand that, you know, using the, I don't have an education excuse is only going to hold you back. And people feel like they need this arsenal of information and this huge background before they can get started. I mean, listen, to just try something, you can always go back, but you have to take this step to try. And so my first piece of advice when you're starting a new business or starting a new entrepreneurial venture is to at least start taking the steps forward, figure out what you can do today.

Because when you take a step today is going to lead to a step tomorrow. that was very, you know, like, what poetic right there. But it's true. So my advice would be take a step, take a leap forward, figure out what you can actually take action on today. And then as the business unfolds, go further. And, you know, Warren Buffett used to say there was a, what he likes to strategize on is a two-month plan and a seven-year plan. What can you do in the next two months to work towards your seven-year goal? I think that's a good way to look at things. So here's what I would do. I would go to Rite Aid by a poster board, just like I did when I was first starting out, and put the poster board in front of you, hang it on your wall in your living room, and actually add to it slowly over six weeks. Give yourself six weeks no longer than six weeks, though. Start writing words that inspire you, but everything that goes on that poster board is things that are executing towards your goals. It's not inspirational quotes or pictures of other actresses or influencers. It's actually how you're going to execute your vision in front of you. You're going to walk by it every single day and see it, and you're going to keep adding to it. And you're going to keep adding to it.

and eventually you're going to execute on it. Yes. Good luck. Jenny B. Okay, Michael. And next call. All right. Hi, this is Liz from Beachwood, Ohio, and my Instagram handle is at Liz, no veggie girl.

I've been listening to the skinny confidential him and her podcast since the very beginning. And I was just wondering what your process is for both you and Michael, or both Lauren and Michael, about choosing who you want to interview on the podcast, because you, you've picked so many great people. There has to be some sort of a process like, hey, this is what we're going to do to contact this person. This is what we want to talk about. So I was hoping you could open up a little more about that.

Thank you. Hello, Liz. I guess Lauren talks to on Instagram. That's what she just told me. I'm going to know, right, Lauren? Loveless. For me, I don't know if my process is so scientific. I think, and Lauren maybe has something more to say about this, but we started this podcast

to have interesting conversations. So most of the time, the guests are people that were interested in talking to. It doesn't necessarily have to be someone that's super famous or have some big platform. We tend to stay away from the typical podcast circuits where maybe someone's on a book tour. Unless maybe we find that author interesting, then we'll interview them. But we tend to stay away from like the typical PR type outreach podcast. There's a lot of different PR companies outreach and say, hey, I have this client. Sometimes we do it, but most of the time that's we don't be just because we're looking for conversations that interests us because we figure

A lot of our audience is like-minded to us. And if we're interested in that conversation, a lot of you guys will be as well. So, you know, take Ryan Holiday, for example, like I was so interested in talking to him that we actually flew to Texas, brought the equipment, went to his office and talked to him. And I think it made for a really good podcast. I think podcasters make a mistake when they just book anyone for a name and they're not actually interested in what that person has to say or do. Because if you're not interested in what someone has to say, you can't get the right questions out of them. I completely agree with Michael. think that we don't want to find a guest that has this answer that's been super rehearsed. We want to

go deeper than that. And we even go as far as to tailor our questions for each guest. So we're very, very methodical and careful with who we bring on. And then we're even more careful with the questions that we ask. So each guest has a very different set of questions. We don't try to do sort of a one size fits all sort of thing. That's really, really important to us. We want to bring different personalities, different ways of life, just really interesting people. And just to give you an example, it's like Aubrey Marcus, he was in an open relationship. And then we brought Tanya Zucker brought on, who's all about fiber. And then, you know, we bring Dr. Dennis, who's so into skin. I think we really like people that are obsessive and passionate about their certain field. And we like to

just showcase that to you guys. At the end of the day, the most important thing out of everything is the takeaway and the value for the audience. Yeah. And then I think another thing that we do, which is intriguing to me for multiple reasons, is that we find guests that may have their talking points. Like maybe somebody comes on and talks about a certain subject the majority of the time. And we try to kind of find out the reasons why they talk about the subject or maybe something that's a tangent that they don't usually go into. And, you know, anything that's unique and interesting that we haven't heard before. Honestly, we would talk to anyone as long as it's new content in a conversation that people haven't heard before. And I think anybody that's out there that's

thinking of doing a podcast should kind of go into it with the same pretext. It doesn't necessarily need to be a name or a draw. A lot of times those people, when they come on anyway, they don't, they don't do a lot for your show. They're not going to go out and promote it. Some people do. So it has to be interesting conversation. And most importantly, it has to be interesting to the audience. And, you know, that's what makes an interesting show. So that's kind of of our process. I love the Collins, but you know what I don't like? Being scared on a Sunday. And Michael, I know, you know what I mean. My nickname's basically Sunday scary. She looks over to me every Sunday now. And so you've got the Sunday scary? It's pretty much. Yours is like weekly scaries.

Okay, so let's talk about the Sunday scurries. So you guys know that feeling when you're sitting around on a Sunday. Maybe you had a couple, too many glasses of rosé, maybe at a wild, irresponsible decision that you made over the weekend. And then you realize that Monday's coming. It's upon you. We've all been there. I just feel like it hits you like a ton of bricks. So those are the Sunday scaries. Michael has them every day. I should call them the everyday scaries. If I'm being honest, I get anxious too on Sundays. I love CBD. You guys know that. I love it to relax and sleep. And I love it for anxiousness when I'm feeling stressed and overwhelmed. So one of our favorite right now is a new partner of the show. And honestly, I could not be more excited because I'm obsessed.

So it's the CBD infused gummy company. Okay. It's called Sunday Scaries. I love the name. It's such a good brand. I'm pissed. It's not my company now. I'm sure you are. So over 40 million adults suffer from anxiety and it's debilitating. You guys know this if you have anxiety. When we learned about Sunday Scaries, we had to try the product. I tried to push a few in Michael's mouth. You know, You never know. So not only to each of the gummies contain a little bit of CBD, they also contain vitamin B12 and vitamin D3, which I need. So you get a boost from those supplements as well.

They also taste so good, okay? Like obsessed. They're made with all natural flavoring and coloring, and they don't contain yeast, wheat, gluten, dairy, eggs, soy, or peanuts. You don't want any peanuts in your gummies. No. For those of you that don't know about Sundays, Geries, So CBD is a natural compound found in hemp.

It's not its sister compound THC. This makes it non-psychoactive and doesn't cause any cognitive impairment, which we like, okay? So you don't trip out. It just relaxes you and helps relieve tension and paranoia. There's no high feeling at all. Trust me, I don't like that high feeling. And Sunday Scaries does not give you a high feeling. We've been taking them on Sundays, maybe other days, but we took them after Fourth of July.

Definitely, especially we went to this wedding. we had a little bit too much fun. Yeah, down in Mexico. I had to come back across the border. I was sweating. I was anxiety. I was out all night. You are.

So we take them when we feel stressed or overwhelmed or before bed. So to try Sunday Scaries, head over to Sundayscarries.com and use the promo code TSE10 for 10% off. That's Sundayscarries.com. Use promo code TSE 10 for 10% off. That's going to be in the show notes and on our new podcast site. Jack Kittsoyan is a veteran publicist in Hollywood who spent most of his time on the other side of the velvet rope. He has worked for a bunch of the big agencies, and he now runs his own boutique agency, EMC Bowery. Jack specializes in Crisis PR, helping celebrities deal with crisis, helping stars deal with sudden

scandals, and some of his clients include Kristen Cavalieri, who's been on this show, Paris Hilton, Carmen Electra, and Erica Jane. With that, Jack, welcome to the show. This is the skinny confidential, him and her. Okay, let's just jump right into it. How did you get into being a publicist? the beginning. Crazy story. Well, I started working at a more of a corporate office when I was 16 in high school. I had to take a class for one of the credits. And I started working at

the small PR firm, and they just did products. So it was like diaper genie and toilet seat covers, like some random things that I used to pitch. And then there was a woman who started working with us. And she was like, you love celebrities. Do you want to work on an award show? I was like, an award show. They're like, yeah, you want to work on the Billboard Music Awards. I was like, sure. So I signed up as an escort. And from that day on, that was it. The girl who actually signed me up, she was like, you're really good at this. We're going to hire you to do the Grammys. So from there, just kind of spread open. So what was the gig? So basically, the gig for that was just, like, basically babysitting the celebrity that was there for the one or two days that

they were performing or presenting you just babysit them. That's how I met publicists. And I was like, okay, kind of this is where I want to go. But first of all, I was going to go to school to be a pharmacist because that's what my mother wanted, but it turned out to be something completely different. So I started school. I was 19 and I got my first job at PMK. I left school.

I actually showed them a fake ID to get the job because they wanted someone to be 21. And I was like, well, I'm not 21. But it worked. I got the job. Back in the day, fake IDs were a lot easier. I look at the kids' IDs. Now it's like holograms and, like,

you have to, like, put your eye retina in there to get everything, you know, I mean, it's crazy now. Can you, for someone like me who's a little bit ignorant to your world, what is babysitting? Like, what does that entail? Like, when you're at these events. Well, at this events, basically, you have to make sure that they're on time. They have everything they need. And you're basically the troubleshooter.

If something goes wrong, it's, you're on the, your house is on the line. That's why I always say to my assistants. I'm like, no matter what you do, if you make a mistake or not, if the car didn't show up, they're not calling to yell at you. They're going to call and yell at me. So I'm the one who gets the brunt of it, no matter what. So what's something like where you have to do damage control in real time, right? Like, is there somebody to ask a bad question?

Is it somebody that, you know, like you said, a car doesn't show up? Is it, like, what is something that you need to immediately put out this fire? Well, car doesn't show up or you show up to take a flight and then you don't have the first class seat. You promised to have. Or, you know, someone is asking a bad question or you have someone who's stalking them. It's a combination of everything is, you know, you're 911. Whatever, you know, something happens, they call you. You're the first line of defense.

I had a client. Listen, I had a client once called me, and she was like, I want to go shopping today on Robertson, and it's raining. Do you know what I could do? Or, is there something you could do? And I was like, do you, like, hire you an umbrella carrier? Like, I don't know what you want me to do. She was like, well, that's a great idea.

I think we should do that. So, there you go. An umbrella carrier. I need somebody that can call. for when it's raining out. I don't ask for fucking much, Michael. I'd love an umbrella carrier next time it rains. So let's talk about the clients.

So you get this job. How do you start landing your clients? Can you tell us who the first ones were? What can you tell us here? So I was an assistant for a while. I'll be honest. I was an assistant probably for about four years. And then I got promoted.

And one of my first clients was actually Kristen Cavalry. A girlfriend of our mine who was best friends with her. And she was just on the Guna Beach and they were like, hey, there's this girl who wants to hire PR, will you be down to meet with her? And I was like, sure, that was it. And then we've been together now almost, God, 20 years. And how has it evolved from when you first met her on Laguna Beach to now?

Because now there's so much social media. Like, tell us how it was. I feel like it was easier to keep things under wraps or control things in the past. Now, like, everybody's got a camera. Everybody's a reporter. Everybody's a blogger. Lauren. And, you know, everybody's a podcaster.

How do you now do damage control? if there is damage control to be done. Well, here's the thing. Back in a day, you could control things much easier because there was not much out there. Now you really can't because things go wildly, you know, in 2.5 seconds, someone put a video out, TMZ already has it. Before, we also made deals with a lot of people before.

Like, hey, if you killed this and I'll give you this. But now you really can't because, let's just say, Mary in Wisconsin got a video. If she goes to go out of weekly, else weekly goes, okay, no, we're going to pass on it. She's going to go to two other places. Yeah, or she's going to put it up herself. Exactly. Or before you couldn't find it.

Or she wants Mary, you know, wants to be famous and Mary's going to put it up so that she could get the followers. So how do you do damage control now? Like, what is, what steps can you take, right? Somebody fucks up real bad. What is, what's the first step? Let's say we have a Tristan Thompson situation happening. What are you doing?

I mean, with that, you know, you can't really do much of anything. He's pretty much fucked. Sorry. Yeah, so there's things you can't come back from. No, there's things you can't come back from. No, there's things you can't. come back from. You know, before here's the thing, before you probably would not have known about it. He would have been killed. He would have been easily killed or he would have been forgiven and moved on.

But now we are going to talk about it until the bitter end. We're not going to stop about it. You know, people are going to follow him, people are going to chase him, people are going to taunt him. It's going to keep going. So what advice would you give him? Because we have social media, so it's easy. Yeah, so you as a publicist, what's the advice? What do you say to him? Don't you on your girlfriend. But after the fact. No, don't cheat on your girlfriend. Yeah, well, of course. That's the first step.

So now, like, what do you do to start doing some damage control? I guess, okay, let's go on the extremes. There's nothing you could do. What? You're going to send him to do work at a charity place or a fee the homeless. That's going to make him look like an idiot. It's going to make it look like it's not authentic. He's doing what he's supposed to be doing to make himself look good.

That's about it. I mean, he's fucked. It's done. So what do you think that Chris Jenner is doing right now? Nothing? I mean, I don't think she's, she's not managing him, I don't think. I might be wrong, but I don't think there's nothing they can really do. So sometimes you just got to sit back and do nothing with social media.

Until you've literally forgiven. I'm hoping that they're going to forgive you. So has this made, and listen, maybe this question's strange, but is this made your job more difficult or easier? Difficult. More difficult. Because how do you come back with that? Like, how do you tell a client that they're not going to be able to come back from that? And do clients, is like, do you feel like you're more in demand now?

less in demand because, you know, it's so much harder. It really depends on the situation. Yeah. It really depends on the situation. Because there are certain things that you could get away with if you get busted with drugs or if you get busted for other reasons. But for cheating, it's a little. Yeah, I feel like people forgive you a little bit of your partying, right?

Yeah. Not you're cheating, but. There's ways to get around at stuff. But for cheating, it's a little bit of a harder to come back from. So someone like a Harvey Weinstein, they're just done. Done. Like nobody, would you even touch a client like that? No.

Yeah. It's a waste of, I mean, what do you do? Besides, have a headache every day. What do you do? There's nothing else you could do. See, back in the day, you probably could have killed a lot of that, but now, easily. Are you picky with who you take on?

You have to be. Here's the thing. When I work with a corporate company, it was, they started dumping clients on me, and then it became like, what am I doing with a chef? I have no idea what to do with a chef. Nor do I want to work with a chef. So, yeah, you have to be. Because I don't want to, you know, you have to deal with that person every day.

And the fact that if you are not into it and you have to answer their call, that's not what I want to do. It's not for me. So I want to get a little bit, I'm going to go deep with you here. I want to get a little bit more into your psyche. What personality traits do you think someone in your position needs to have to do a job like this? Like maybe there's somebody out there listening and saying, hey, I think I'd be good to publicist. I'd be good at PR. Like, what traits do you need to have?

Do you have thick skin? Like thick skin for sure. People's people, you got to be able to take what, you know, even though you're right, if they say you're not wrong, you've got to be able to take it without arguments. And you've got to be creative. You have to be very creative, especially now. You know, the PR 101 ways of doing things, it's over. And what do you think's made you that way? Like, if you're going back and you're thinking of any time in your life that has really developed those personality traits in you? I think you have to have a passion for it. If you don't really,

you don't have a passion for it, it's not going to, it's not going to work. And also, you've got to be excited about your job. But do you think, you know... Sorry to cut you off. It's one of the stressful jobs they say in the world. Yeah. Number one always. When you're constantly managing somebody else, right?

So you have to be like their biggest cheerleader while also dealing with all their shit. Yep. Well, also that's why a lot of the girls who are publicists and sadly they're single and miserable because you don't have a life. Your life becomes their life. So when you're trying to like take a vacation or go on a date or your husband is asking you, it's 10 p.m. at night, where are you? you don't have a known life, especially if you're traveling. I travel so much sometimes that I don't even know where I am myself. Wow.

I heard that it's known in Hollywood. The Paris Hilton is smart. She's savvy. She's a go-getter. Have you seen this firsthand? I know you worked with her? 100%. I mean, look at the girl.

She has the biggest brand out there at the moment. She's still this. You know, it's been so many years and she's still killing it. So she knows what she's doing. She built an amazing brand and she has what it takes to get where she's at at the moment. It's still going. You know, she was smart about it. Unlike some of the girls who burn through it quickly and they took every single deal that they possibly can,

that didn't make any sense and you kind of get burned out and move on. She didn't. She has built a business out of this. So you've seen a lot of highs and lows with a lot of your clients. For somebody that wants to be famous and they want to get, you know, they want attention and they want to be in the public eye, what would you say to someone like would you caution them or what like what are things that people aren't looking at right there's a lot of glamour there's a lot of attention there's a lot of money but what what are the dark things that come with that a lot of fake people uh you get to have a lot of fake friends and then you know you have and also when you're hot you're hot you get so many people on you and then when you're not everyone disappears and becomes a lonely life so you've seen a lot of your clients like they've really you know people around when they have attention everything's great but so what's a What happens in the dark times? How do you walk them through that?

They have no more friends. Then you become their friend. Then it becomes a problem with you because then all of a sudden, you're, they're literally consuming all of your time. So you have to be very careful on that side of it because then you're going to drive yourself crazy. Is it strange for you doing interviews like this now because you've been on the other side so frequently? It's still weird. You know, I get like, yes, absolutely.

It's still weird. So how do you manage? all these celebrities, and then you also ended up writing two books that are beautiful, by the way. Thank you. Thank you. You know what? I wrote it with my best friend, Kevin Dixon, who was actually at life and style for a long time, so he became friends when he was working there. And, you know, it's, you know, you just find a time. If you want to do something, you just find a time. You know, we were talking about this for a long time, and one of my girlfriends was on my ass about it. She was like, you have to do this, you have to do this. You have so many,

crazy stories that no one is ever going to believe it, but we know it's all true. You got to put it in a book, got to put it in book, so we just did it. What's one of the, like, in the book, what is one of the juiciest stories that's getting you a lot of attention, and have you gotten in any trouble for it? We haven't gotten any trouble for it because it's done really cleverly, I would say, especially with the names and their nationality or what they look like. We've changed a lot, and some of the, even the characters are two characters instead of one person. It's about two people. So nothing, but for some odd reason, people were really shocked about the fact that there's arranged marriages or there's arranged dating life in Hollywood.

Can you give us some details of one of the stories in the book? Well, and one of the characters is dating a certain person in the book that is just completely arranged for a look. And this is, I call her the beard. She's the beard. And this really happened? It really happened. And who arranges this? Well, you know, most of the time it's the agents who will make the connection or the studio at the time was like, hey, we need to have something come out about some kind of a controversial publicity stunt we need to do. So let's get this going.

Or if the person is gay back in the day, you just have to do it. And a lot of the girls will take the job because they won't go from zero to 60 matter of nights. If you're dating a Hollywood heartthrob, all of a sudden, everyone is calling you in for castings. Everyone knows their name. So the benefit then for the heartthrob was that he can appear straight, and the benefit for the woman is that she can get work? Exactly. So how long, is there like a time like, hey, we got to be together for this many years and then we can split? It's usually around two years. And you get to see that.

It's around, yeah, it's about two years. So some of the biggest celebrities have arranged marriage, like the big, big ones, superstars? Yes. Can you think of ones off the top of the top of your head that are like nuts that you can't even believe like like I'm talking like Brad and Angie like is that arranged yeah okay they actually loved each other yes like who can you not break my heart who's not a client that we can talk about that you can give an example of I'm putting it on the spot here I'll tell you off air he'll give us a wink I'm trying to penetrate your armor here to get some some stories about like it not like a gotcha

but like who who's someone that we could talk about as an example of someone that's had some really good PR or maybe that's already broken out I know someone and you don't have to say yes or no, but I've heard multiple times that John Travolta and Kelly Preston have an arranged marriage, an arrangement. He's rolling your eyes. Tilting the head. It's not, I can't see if it's a firm yes or a no the way the head is being tilted. I know in your book that you talk about hot interns sleeping with your clients. Yes. What is this? And how do we get an internship with you? You know, it's so crazy. What the fuck? We used to have, you know, interns were my best assets in life. I always tell people, like, if you, you know, if you

need anything, you get interns. They're amazing. And then, you know, I used to hire hot entrance because they worked. It was easy. It was fun. So a couple of the girls had a bucket list of certain celebrities that they wanted to sleep with. And they would literally start going through the list. And then that was a way from them to work at the PR agency to get to the celebrity because they would work at events. Oh my gosh. They had a list? They had a bucket list. Wow. Maybe you should tell your friends to get an internship with Jack, like Weston? I need to get, yeah. Literally a bucket list.

Some of my guy friends, they need to get an internship. One of them actually wanted to have a three-way with a certain musician and his girlfriend, and she did it. Have you ever worked with any, like, okay, strictly celebrities, but is there ever been any politicians or government officials you ever had to go into that world or no? No, thank God no. That world just seems so crazy. Yeah. I think it's worse than celebrities.

How much does the media manipulate what we see? It depends on the person. Sometimes, you know, here's the thing. If you leave out certain words or the headline, the way they portray the headline, all of a sudden you could think 15 things from that one headline, even though it's actually apples. They're kind of flipping into an orange. So it really depends on the person.

But media does control a lot of stuff now. Are there any strategies you've taken or anything that the audience can take away where maybe there's something at the time was not getting a lot of attention that you were able to leverage to really skyrocket someone's career or something creative you were able to do to put someone on a platform that they may have not had if you hadn't done something? Like is there any examples of that that you can think of? So back in the day I would say that a lot of the things that worked was the set up photo shoots that we did. You know, the bikini photos and you did a lot of that and just taken them at the beach. Them at the beach and you know the setup stuff was the one that really caught on attention and a lot of people started doing that Now it's over overplayed. You can't really do that anymore But that was back in the day that was the that was the biggest one or go out and be associated with a certain celebrity at the club even though you were not

You know be associated because you know there's all these reporters were at the club watching what was going on So if you were at you know back in there was like hide and you're saying sitting next to Leonor and Caprio the next day, all of a sudden you were kind of dating. That is crazy. So Heidi and Spencer and me and Michael should do like a shoot on the beach. Totally. Just kidding. What would you tell me to get some attention?

What would you buy a move? Well, guys are screwed. Right? Sadly. It's so hard to get pressed for guys, especially now. Why? Because there's not much, there's not many outlets out there for a guy. Yeah.

What do you talk about with a guy? I mean, unless you have some crazy-ass ripped body, then there's, There's no much out there. Well, that's like I'll be fine then. That's the sad part about guys. It's like it's really hard to get press. At least with girls, there's the hair, the makeup, or the fashion. There's a lot to incorporate into getting press on a girl.

Guys, it's, you know, you got to work 10 times more. So if you're coaching me, what's my first step? What do I do? In one way, to get press? Yeah, to get press. Like, what's the move? I'm not saying I'm looking for it, but I'm just saying, like, if someone's out there and they're like, okay, I need to get attention. I'm a man.

I'm listening to this, and it's difficult to show. shine, what's the move? You've got to start dating a bunch of girls. You gotta go through some girls. That would be the easiest way that we would get attention. All of a sudden, everyone will be talking about it. But not just any girls. You got to date the right girls.

Who knew who was who Tristan Thomas was until you started dating her? Did you know who Tristan Thomas was? I had no idea. Exactly. So there you go. I just learned about it from because I was reading the comments on his page. They were eviscerating that guy. I actually felt bad at some point, but he did a scummy thing. You won't be in hide next to girls. so I don't know what you're going to do.

Let me go on some dates. I need some attention. This is not the first time he's done this. So you know what? He deserves it. Okay, let's talk about the Kardashians because I think that they're a master at PR. Would you agree?

What do you think are some things that they implement in their day-to-day to get this crazy PR around them? Well, I think we talk about them. There you go. We're just talking about them right now again. So I think that's their, the crazy part is that, you know, as much as people want to hate on them,

they're still talking about them. no matter what, they're still going to be around. So as much as people want to say that when we want them to go away, it's not going to go away. Because if you don't talk about someone, we're not going to be anywhere. We are the ones who, at this point in day and age, I think we are the ones who are making these people famous. So if we stop talking about them, if we stop following them, it's going to go away eventually. It's like that old quote. It's like, better to talk behind my back than not talk about me at all, right?

And I always say, like, haters are the fans. if you're going to come on my page and hate on me, you're actually taking me somewhere else. You're talking about me? You remember the Howard Stern movie? And they were going through, and he had like the NBC guy was so pissed at the executive that he was getting all this attention

and they pulled the reports and they're like, well, what about the people that like him? Oh, well, they listen this amount of it. What about the people that hate him? And they're like, oh, the people that hate him listen three times as much because they want the most common answers, they want to see what he says next. It's so crazy because I've had instant,

you know, something has been gotten so crazy. crazy, it's blown out of proportion, and all of a sudden you look at the numbers, and you're like, oh my God, we're selling music today, we're selling books today, we're doing things. It's so crazy how, even if it's a problem or whatever it's going on, whenever you're nice, nothing really happens. Whenever you're an asshole, something good comes out of it. Yeah, no, it's interesting. I think, you know, like you said before, who knew Tristan Thomas? And there's so many, there's so many instances, like, when, in music career and celebrities, like, like, as soon as people start talking about, I was like, oh, I got to see what this guy's about or this girl's about. And I think, like, like, you said, no, bad press, like, there's a line, right? There's a line.

There's a line. But bad press can actually be really good for your career. Just there's the line. What do you think the line is? Like, what's killing? The line I would kill you? I think cheating is a big one. And is it really?

Because, like, what's going to happen to this guy's career? I feel like he's getting more attention than ever know. He is, but it's, you know, brands, here's the problem. Brands will stop. Brands will stop. Because if women stopped following you and women stop kind of buying what you're selling, because if, you know, 90% of the time women is the one who's buying for their husband or they're significant another.

So, if they're not going to buy your brand, then you're kind of screwed. So cheating, but, like, but I mean. Anything like Harvey Weinstein has over? Yeah, anything sexual assaults and rape. But porn tapes have seemed to be. I don't think porn tapes, those days are gone. The porn tapes are great, but now it's like, hello China, black China came and came. Michael and I were going to make one called One Night and Lauren.

We shouldn't do that? It's a waste of time. Okay. I think the sex tape days are over. As long as it's not One Night and Michael. I think someone needs to come out with something, you know, something completely different than the usual sex tape situation. It needs to be some kind of a 50 shades of gray moment. Add a whip and a chain.

Or maybe some kind of an orgy situation, you know, then it would be something interesting to watch. You guys didn't even the celebrity. That, hey. Get the celebrity, maybe get a couple whips in there. Let's do a threesome with Brad Pitt. You know what? He's not a jester. Maybe, maybe, maybe.

Maybe, maybe. Just because, you know, it's Brad Pitt, maybe. But it's like having a sex tape. It's like, oh, I already watched something else on YouTube. It's another sex tape. Great. You know, it's kind of played out. Let me ask you this.

You have worked with a lot of traditional celebrities. And you, but you've also. before, you know, we were talking before the interview, you had the foresight to start going for reality star clients before they were as popular as they are now. How do you think you came up with that foresight, and why did you decide to do that? Well, when I first got promoted, I mean, I would say the whole situation is if they were going to,

when they came to a big company, they didn't want to sign someone who just got promoted. That was the real deal. And, you know, they wanted someone bigger, higher up to be on the count. And the higher ups never, you know, they didn't never want. wanted to help you out. No one, you know, it was kind of like you're on your own. We promoted you now you figure out what you wanted to do. So when I first got Kristen, I kind of was like, okay, the Laguna Beach phenomenon was so big. And I was like, okay, there's a market here. And I think what I'm going to do here, I'm going to capitalize on this. Was there a resistance

from a lot of the higher ups of like towards reality stars? Yes. I mean, I've had many chats in the conference room saying I need to stop signing reality stars because it was not, it was bringing the aura of the company down. Okay. And then when we got corporate, it was more like, you need to get everybody and everyone one you can, you know? So it was like, okay, now all of a sudden, I was fine to be there now. What do you think about the influencer space now?

Because there's kind of like another wave, right? There was the traditional celebrities, then there's reality. But now there's a new wave, what we call influencers, that's the hot term everyone's throwing around. Like, how do you look at that space? Well, I mean, here's the thing. There's ever-changing world, so you have to adapt to it. So we just adopt to it.

And I know a lot of PR people don't really understand. that world, so you've got to kind of dive in and get into that world. If you want to hear a thing, if you want to make money and you want to have a business, you just have to adapt to it. I always say that when you can't understand something, you know you're onto something. So when I tell people an idea, like in 2010, I told everyone I was going to be a blogger, and I always say that there was this 80-year-old guy at the bar that was laughing at me and was like, how are you going to monetize?

And he actually was the inventor of the airbag. And if I had listened to him, I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing. So I always think that you should be looking where no one else is looking. Exactly. So I want to talk about staying power. So Kristen Cavalieri was on the podcast. You were here with her. And I think she's done a really good job of evolving and standing out in this industry.

How do you think your expertise has kind of helped with this? Well, I think we've had, you know, we've, you know, it's called a partnership and teamwork. And you work together to figure out what really makes sense. and she's never sold out like most people have, and I think that was one of the most important thing, and especially nowadays fans know when you're selling out and you're not being authentic, and you are trying to shove down something down their throat.

People understand it. So I think that was the most important thing that she really did say, no, I'm going to do what I want to do. So we kind of, you know, navigated towards that. You know, having the shoe brand was amazing, because that kind of still got us pressed without begging for press.

It's an ongoing thing. You have four or five seasons of different shoes coming out, so you're going to have to talk about press. So I think navigating and figuring out what really where your brand is, and then sticking to that is what the solution is. For staying power. Yeah, there's staying power.

And if you get that, you know, if you understand where that part is, I think it would stay for a long time. So when you sign a client that's, you know, someone like Erica Jane or Kristen Cavalier, Larry or Paris Hilton, do you guys sit down and have a strategy about how you're going to kind of map out systems to get to the goal that you want? Is there something written down or do you just kind of go with every day?

I mean, it depends on the person, you know, in the project. If they have a project going, then you're like, hey, we're going to work on X, Y, and Z and get you X, Y, and Z. And also, you don't know until you start pitching someone. You know, I say when you go to first meetings and if someone promising you with the moon and the world, they're lying. You know, until I leave the room and get on the phone and start talking about you and pitching you, it's not going to happen. How many bullshitters are there in this industry?

You know, everyone is a publicist now. That's the biggest issue that we have is the fact that there's so many PR people out there and they'll be like, oh, we'll charge this much money. And, you know, some people take the bait. And they'll be like, you pay what you get for. Let me ask you this. We've worked with PR before in multiple capacities with the businesses we operate also personally. and it's never really been a good experience. There's a lot of young business operators

that listen to this show. What would you say red flags are when they're thinking about PR or publicists? The number one, I think it would say if they promise you the moon in the world. They're lying. If they're giving you a proposal that has so many magazine names on it,

it just basically they're circulating that proposal around their company. That's what they're doing. Because there's no way you could sit there and say that they're going to get you Cosmo, Vogue, they're going to get you, you know, the top-tier magazines, because it's not going to happen.

And so what do you think the biggest mistake as a consumer, the consumers make when they're working with PR? The biggest mistake that they, when you're first signing on? So is it like because, so for example, say we're talking about Wu and I want to sell more Wu, right? Like that's a specific plan than I have a goal. Do you think they're, like, you know, we've had a lot of different PR proposals. They say, oh, we could do this and we can do that. I can do this. It seems like it's like shotgun methods splattered everywhere.

It's not really targeted. So I'm trying to kind of figure out, you know, if you're thinking about working with PR, do you have to come in with a certain intention in mind? Do you have to look for a specific strength at that PR firm offers? Well, here's the thing. If you're selling a certain product and they're telling you you're going to be in a certain magazine that makes no sense whatsoever, that should be your red flag right there. Like, why would I be in, let's just say, family living,

and if I'm selling Loub? You know, saying family living is not going to cover Lou. And you'll be surprised. I've seen some proposals that people are like... It can bring more families together. Yeah, I'm like, they've given you that. They're like, okay. And then also the other problem is some people are just afraid to express their feelings.

So if you're with a prior person for more than two months and they haven't done anything for you, you need to say something. You know, I've taken a couple of... This past few months, we have meetings with some people and they're like, oh, we've been here for seven months and we haven't even spoke to the actual person I signed with. I was talking to the assistant. So you paid seven months of PR and you've never talked to the person you signed with, that's your problem. You're just not, you don't, to me that means that you don't care about your career or you don't care about what you're doing. If that's, you know, honesty is an important thing in the PR world, and I think that's why I've been in, thank God, so successful in my lane. If I feel like more than a month, you know, two months is the cutoff when you can't really understand what's going on.

If there's a problem we're pitching and pitching when nothing is coming back, hey, listen, here's what the feedback is and here's what's going on. And we need to figure out a way to change some stuff or we need to figure out a new situation that we pitch you so we could get press. So honesty is an important thing. And I know most people don't want to hear it, but you have to. In every industry, honesty I think is important. Yeah, being up front.

Tell us about your book, Guilty Pleasure. What can the listeners expect? Well, Guilty Pleasure is a sequel off of the Blind Item, which was out most a year ago and a year and a half ago. So it's just basically juicy stories about Hollywood. Like we talked about the arranged marriages and what really goes down behind PR world. You know, it's always, you know, when you watch it in TV and you're seeing certain things, it's all about the glitz and the glamour and the whole, like, in front of the red carpet, this actually gives you the glimpse what really went down back in the day when we have to kill stories.

or we had to arrange marriages or the little things that you would never think about, it's all in there with fictional characters. Did you ever think that you were going to be arranging marriages when you thought about going to the PR? Never. Never. You know, despite my mom still doesn't understand what I do. And I'm like, Mom, it's not rocking science, but it is. You know, you'll be surprised at things that we've done or the things that I've been asked to do. Well, sorry to break it to you guys, but Michael and I have had.

an arranged marriage. It's arranged. It's been, you know, it's been a good two years on the show. We fooled everyone. We basically just outed you guys out, huh? Anyways, let's, yeah. Where it's been fun? Yeah, it's been fun.

Where can everyone find the book? Amazon, Barnes & Nobles, anywhere, any bookstores that's near you, basically. What's your Instagram handle so we can stock you? Jack Ketzel, J-A-K-E-T-S-O. Thank you for coming on the show. Thanks guys. Quickly, again, if you're in the LA area today, which is Thursday the 12th, Come on down to the Grove for our live event.

There will be drinks, food, awesome people, and of course, our live show. Details can be found on DeerMedia.com slash live. And if you miss this week, the following three weeks will also have more live shows, and they can also be found on the Deer Media site. This episode was brought to you by Sunday Scaries. Let's talk about the Sunday Scaries, both the day and one of our new favorite products. You know that feeling of anxiousness you get on a Sunday when you've been out? You've been raging all weekend, making bad decisions?

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