The Bossticks - #152: Santa Sold Shrooms w/ Four Sigmatic Founder Tero Isokauppila Pt. 2 - Psychedelics, Microdosing, & The History Of Santa Clause

Episode Date: November 27, 2018

On this episode we sit down with our friend Tero Isokauppila. This is Tero's second time on the podcast and once again, he doesn't fail to deliver. Tero is the founder of Four Sigmatic, an entrepreneur and author. His most recent book Santa Sold Shrooms is now available. On this episode we dive into the history of Santa Clause, our experience with psychedelics, micro-dosing and more.  To Read Santa Sold Shrooms click HERE To connect with Tero Isokauppila click HERE To connect with Lauryn Evarts click HERE To connect with Michael Bosstick click HERE Read More on The Skinny Confidential HERE To Call the Him & Her Hotline call: 1-833-SKINNYS (754-6697) For Detailed Show Notes click HERE This episode is brought to you by FOUR SIGMATIC We have been drinking this company's mushroom-infused elixirs and coffees for over a year now. When we need a break from coffee but still need that extra morning jolt and focus the Mushroom Coffee with Lion's Mane and Chaga is the way to go. Lauryn also drinks the Mushroom Matcha which is a green tea designed as a coffee alternative for those of you who want to cut back on caffeine without losing focus and cognitive boosts. This stuff doesn't actually taste like mushrooms, it's delicious. All of these blends have a ton of nutrients and amino acids to give you balanced energy without the jitters. To try FOUR SIGMATIC products go to foursigmatic.com/skinny and use promo code SKINNY for 15% off all products.  This episode was brought to you by Fabletics. Your new go to for all athletic wear.  Fabletics is offering our listeners an incredible deal you don't want to miss: Get 2 leggings for only $24 a ($99 value) when you sign up for a VIP membership. Just go to Fabletics.com/skinny to take advantage of this deal now. International shipping is available and there is absolutely no commitment when you purchase your first order!  Fabletics.com/skinny Terms and conditions apply.   

The following podcast is a dear media production. This episode is brought to by Four Sigma. One of our favorite companies, one of our favorite sponsors. We interviewed Taro, the founder on this show, multiple times. This was his second time on the show, and we had to bring his brand on as a sponsor. For Sigmaics, specialized in superfoods, medicinal mushrooms, and adaptogenic herbs. And they make drinking mushrooms and superfoods delicious and easy to do with their mushroom coffees, mushroom confers.

If you're looking for a coffee alternative switch up your caffeine intake, foursigmatic has the blends for you. They're all delicious. Just open a pack and add to hot water. They don't taste like mushrooms. And like always, we have a special offer just for him and her listeners. Go to 4Sigmatic.com forward slash skinny and enter promo code Skinny at checkout for 15% off your entire order. She's a lifestyle blogger extraordinaire.

Fantastic. And he's a serial entrepreneur. A very smart cookie. And now Lauren Everts and Michael Bostic are bringing you alone for the ride. Get ready for some major realness. Welcome to the Skinny Confidentia. him and her. I just believe that mushrooms are a smarter organism than we are.

And it's a, it might be a controversial saying. I think when you eat even just like the Lions Made mushroom, you're eating intelligence. The intelligence is something bigger than we can explain with words. And I think there's so many signals and so many things that we already do that we can't explain with words, but this is definitely like the mushrooms are one of the things that are, I struggle explaining their intelligence.

but I firmly believe in it. I have to work off my turkey gut. Back from Thanksgiving, too many sweet potatoes, too much turkey, too much tryptophen. Triptophofen must have worn off because I'm wired up. What is your dad say when your mom says, okay, it's time to say grace. He says, who's grace or grace?

Real quick. Everybody, welcome back to the skinny confidential him and her show. Grace, welcome. If you are new to the show, thank you for joining. That clip was from our guest of the show today, Eso Coppola. Taro is back in the studio for his second interview. The first one was on episode 116.

And if you haven't heard that one yet, I highly recommend checking it out. It was one of my favorite interviews, one of Lawrence's favorite interviews with Lauren, I think so. And Tara is one of our favorite people. Taro is the second time on the show now, like I just said. This episode, we talk about psychedelics and all of our experiences with them.

The history of Santa Claus, ghost towns, yes, ghost towns, dating, and what it's like building a mega brand in a niche category. For those of you that are new to the show, my name is Michael Bostic. I am the CEO of Dear Media and the co-host of this show. I'm sitting across from me doing a selfie, a lovely wife, Lauren Everts. Hi, I'm Lauren Everts.

I'm the creator of the skinny confidential Michael's wife. And I'm also stuffed from Thanksgiving. I ate way too much cranberry sauce. I always, like, kill myself with the cranberry sauce. And then Michael's grandma makes these noodles. They're Japanese noodles with, like, lettuce and bacon. and they're, I can't, I can't describe it. It's so good.

For those of you that forget or maybe don't know from looking at me, I am a quarter Japanese. My grandma's full. That's why she makes Japanese noodles. She brings them into the Thanksgiving feast. I love them. Those noodles are so good. Hey, you know what you need to do. You need to learn that recipe.

Every, every woman in my family knows how to do it. Great, Michael. Add that to my list. I love them and I can't get them as much anymore because I'm not with my grandma all the time. Oh, poor you. Listen, God forbid I get one noodle dish from you. You should write a son and about it. This episode's really fun because we drop some major bombs.

What's not that major? No, it's not major. It's just like, it's fun. It's light. So let's preface it with this. We talk a lot about psychedelics in this episode and our experience with psychedelics. That's right. Our experience as well as taros.

And I think for anybody that is going to explore the world of psychedelics, one, you have to do it in a very, very responsible setting. Two, in a legal setting in a place where it's legal. and three with the right intention. And we get into that in this episode. You don't want to just jump into this stuff for the wrong reasons. It's not the right way to do it. We really talk about why we do it once in a while and why we believe there's a benefit in doing it.

And it's not for recreational use, right? That's my opinion. And I just want to say, by the way, we're not telling anyone to do anything. We're just simply sharing our journey. I think that as an influencer, like my job is. to just share what my journey is and not give unsolicited advice. So we're not telling anyone to do anything. We're not saying you should do this or you could do this.

We're saying this is what we've done. Here's our experience. Leave what you don't like and take what you like. You know, it's funny as before you showed up to do the interview, Lauren, because you were late, big surprise there. How many times are you going to say that? Tara and I were just shooting the shit in my office. It was right next to the studio.

And he was like, okay, can you talk about that? Would you talk about that? I started thinking like what would we not talk about on this show? Because we talk about everything. I think maybe some of the things we don't talk about is maybe if it's something with like personal family that like maybe they don't have a say and can't represent themselves. But anything that touches Lauren and I's lives, we talk about and talk about openly. Yeah, we try to be an open book with you guys and just share our experiences in a super raw, organic way. And again, we're not recommending anything. We're just sharing our journey. Yeah, I can't think of a, I can't think

of something that I wouldn't want to talk about on this show. I can think of a couple things. Do you want me to list them? No, I mean, well, I mean, yeah, maybe listen to me. Let's see what I'll say yes or no. Like, that's a fun game. Okay, okay. What about you trimming your pub hair? I think we've talked about it. We've talked about that. That's all you got. That was your big reveal. Taylor, what's something good? I mean, Taylor, our producers back there. Okay, let's do Taylor. No, Taylor's talked about literally everything. Taylor has, we talked about how he pissed his pants at a strip club at our wedding. Taylor has talked about how he is a one-minute

man. We've talked about everything on this show. I don't think there's anything off limits. At least I can't envision a situation where there would be something off limits, which is why we wanted to talk about this. At the same time, we always want to talk about things that are relevant and not wasting anyone's time. So hopefully this conversation is interesting to everybody. We've even talked about sex. We've talked about our sex life. We talked about everything. Well, we're not going to bring people in the bedroom and do a blog on it. You want to talk about sex again? No.

All right. Don't want to have sex later? Taylor's in the room. All right. Whatever. Guys, let's get that. That's getting a little creepy. All right, guys.

So let's welcome Tero back to the show. All right. So we've been talking about mushrooms. Let's talk about boobs. Okay. Let's talk about bras and tanks. But affordable ones. So affordable ones.

Honestly, you guys are going to freak out. So I recently had to order a bunch of new sports bras and tanks because I got my boobs done. So I was. went on Fabletics and everything is just like I said so affordable. They have leggings. Okay. So you can get a set. There's super, super, super flattering leggings on their site. Like they have a black, tight legging with a big white, thick band that I'm obsessed with. I talk about this all the time. I've talked about it like four times on the podcast. You definitely have to check out all their sets. They're so good. They're under $35, which is nuts. And we just talked about babes on a budget. Fabletics is really for the

girl who's on the budget, but also for the girl who likes to mix highs and lows, and she wants to look cute, and she wants to be smart with her money, okay? They have tons of different sports bras. There's like a medley. They have all different kinds sizes. If you want a push up, maybe you want something that has a lot of support, maybe something a little bit thinner in the strap. All different kinds of bras are on their site. And like I said, you can get a set with it or like a matching tank. It's super fun. All right. So a little background. on Fabletics. It was born in 2013 and as you guys know, it was co-founded by actress Kate Hudson. Wowie. Anyway, so the founding team noticed a big gap in the active war marketplace so they wanted

to create this like trendy, stylish gym wear. How Fabletics works is simple and straight to the point. You take a style pop quiz, you shop from thousands of styles and then you become a guest or a VIP member. VIP perks are up to 50% off regular prices plus free shipping and additional perks. Fabletics is offering all TSC, him and her listeners, an incredible deal that you guys don't want to miss out on. You get two leggings for only $24. That's a $99 value when you sign up for the VIP membership. Just go to Fabletics.com slash skinny to take advantage of this deal. That's fabledics.com slash skinny to get two leggings for only $24.

Also grab some sports bras, I'm telling you. You get free shipping on all orders over $49. International shippings available. And there's absolutely no commitment when you purchase your first. order. That's fabletics.com slash skinny. Terro Isocopola is the founder and creator of Four Sigma, the mega brand making mushroom elixirs across the world, most recently in Sephora with beauty elixir. Pretty amazing. He's a two-time author. Most recently, the author of Santa sold shrooms, which is

a children's book, all about the history of Santa Claus and much more. You guys got to dive into that to check it out and really figure out what it is. Great stocking stuff for a great gift for the holidays. With that, let's welcome Tero Issa Coppola for his second time, back to the skinny confidential him and her show. This is the skinny confidential him and her. I want you to tell me about this ghost town because I was, we were talking in the office a little bit earlier, but I want to know how the fuck did you get involved in a ghost town? So me and a few other people bought a ghost town in California about three and a half hours away

from L.A. His name is, the town's name is Cerro Gordo. It's Fat Hill in Spanish. And it's a historic town. There was actually a quote in L.A. time saying that LA was built to be the harbor to support this town. It was they mine like $500 million worth of minerals mostly like silver from this town. And then as the mining industry died out and the minerals were taken away, it became a ghost town. But it's there's multiple books written about it. Like Iron Man one movie was shot there. Steve McQueen shot a movie. It's like a super historic amazing town. And then it came on the market and went viral. And a couple of my friends John Beer and Brent Underwood they were like we got to get this town and they

started but they held a bidding war because it was all kinds of press and media and we figured out a way we were not the highest bidders but we found a way to make the best offer and randomly got the town and we bought it a few months ago now we're trying to make it kind of rebuild the history of that town and make it cool and kind of rebuild some of those bills buildings, but still conserve the history of that town. But so, okay, what, so what are you going to do with this town? Listen, I'm all about a ghost town, right? Yeah.

So as an entrepreneur, sometimes you just have to kind of like trust your, trust your gut, and you don't have all the answers. But something like rustic luxury, you know, it's like, it's not for everyone. It's not mass thing. But if you really want to explore real American history and, like, deep 100, 200-year-old history and feel the vibe and you don't want to go into a Hyatt or some like chain place and you want to have a vacation and totally get out of the system and it's in the mountains it's in almost 9,000 feet and be in a nice place that built something like that. We want to build a Scandinavian spa there,

maybe a boxing gym and just supply a very unique experience for a small amount of guests. Will you want to be on mushrooms when you're in this ghost town? Yeah. Yeah. So like when you walk in the ghost town, are you going to be handed like a little bit of mushroom chocolate or what? Yes. Okay. But the foursingmatic mushroom chocolate because the other mushroom chocolate is still illegal in America. So yeah, definitely in order to connect with the nature and connect with elements, it's obviously food and beverages are big part of it. And there's a saloon, there's an old brothel. There's a chapel that we're converting into a movie theater. You had me at Brotho.

Yeah, right now that's not operational. But anyway, it's like a very historic town and came on the market. How do you do that with all those entrepreneurs and all those creatives and everyone, I'm sure, has such a strong opinion. And you all come together. Like, do you each get a section or do you guys all give your input or is it voting? Yeah, everybody can probably give the feedback, but then somebody needs to make the final call. And yeah, it's basically you start a company.

If you ever want to do real estate, you're probably going to start a new company and everybody gets a slice of that company. And that's how it works. But obviously somebody has to make the final call. There's probably a general partner. Yeah, there's two. John and Brent are the main guys. And at the end of the day, they're going to say.

But I think ideally in any kind of partnership, be it even your guys' podcast or anything else is like you align values and then the tactics will follow. The only thing that I'm bummed about about the ghost town is that you didn't tell me you were buying a ghost town in time to be part of a ghost town. I think there's still a possibility. Don't get any ideas. So tarot's back on the show. You've been gone. I think it's been like how many months since you did this, maybe six, six months?

Yeah. You have a new book coming out. What else is going on for, Sigmatics taking over the world? I see it everywhere. We just saw it at the Sephora event. Lauren saw it at another event. It's in every store. worldwide. I mean, it's just exploding. His book is called Santa sold shrews. How is the inspo of this

book happening? The children are going to love this. Yeah, I want to know like how this even came to be. Yeah, it's a long time coming, almost a decade coming. And I sometimes have these crazy ideas and then they, uh, takes a while for them to come to life. But it's basically a children's book or adult's children's book about the origins of the world's most famous. famous person, Santa Claus. And a lot of people think Santa Claus is like German, St. Nicholas, but that's completely not true. So the story is much older than that. And I've told this story at parties many times, and people always blown away, like, why does Santa come from a chimney, or why there's red ornaments on the Christmas tree, or why do the Christmas presents under the

tree or top of a stocking? And nobody knows these things that are actually facts. And then I've been wanting to make a children's book for a long time. And then last year, last Christmas, New York Times made an animation about this story. I was like, okay, people are ready to hear it. Because it's a wild one. It's not fully PC story. So what, why, okay, let's get into it. Why did, why does he come down a chimney? Where is this guy from? Like, so it all kind of dates back. It goes through multiple different cultures, but it all dates back to this semi-nomadic, uh, rain India herder tribe called the Sami. And you guys are going to have the chance to actually meet some of these Sami next year, but on our little trip. But they, they, I don't want to spoil all the

story to kind of let some of the excitement still stay there. But basically, Santa was a shaman. And the shaman was a healer. But they also had multiple purposes in the cultures. And there's two main holidays in almost any indigenous culture. It's the winter solstice and the summer solstice when the day is the longest and when the day is the shortest. And the winter solstas align with Christmas and there was all kinds of magic happening.

So the story of Santa Claus kind of goes back to the Sami people and winter solstice. So why did you go down the chimney? Or is that going to ruin the story? We don't want to cut you. Okay, I'll give you this one. So the Sami, since they're semi-nomadic, they live in these teepees, like kind of yurds.

Mets last teepee. So there's a lot of snow. It's very far up north above the Arctic Circle. And there's a hole on the top of the TP. And because there's so much snow, like sometimes when they're sleeping in this yard and there's a fire in the center and that's why there's the hole in the top so the smoke can go away. Sometimes they get snowed in. They can't exit. So there's always a secondary entrance and exit and that's through the roof. And when the Sami shaman would come and, and do the ceremony in winter solstice, i.e. Christmas time, it would sometimes have to enter through the chimney, the roof into this yard slash teepee. Can I read this book to my future firstborn? Yeah.

Okay, so it's PG for the kids. Yeah. Yeah, it's, it's, the, the Santa's story is, is totally PG. It's just not what people think. And you self-publish this book, which is pretty impressive, and I feel like this is happening more and more. through Amazon. Can you talk about how that came to fruition, like how you decided to choose Amazon if someone's out there that has an idea for a book, maybe like this or maybe something different, how can they start? The reason we're so on point in this interview is because we have 4Sigmatic's new mushroom focus shot. I am telling you guys, this tastes like pineapple heaven, a little bit of mushroom focus. I have talked about how I take 4-Sigmatic products for focus, and now they actually have a shot.

You can just take a registered desk at your office. We're all taking it here during this interview, and I am wired up. Okay, but it's kind of like a big deal because you stayed up the other night until 2.30. So let's start it at probably 9 o'clock instead of 5 p.m. at night because you were bouncing off the walls. I don't even need coffee anymore. I used to love coffee, but with 4-Sigmatic products, I don't have to drink as much coffee, and I'm just as focused and just as wired, but I don't have all the jitters and come-downs, which is why I love this brand so much.

We've talked about it with Terra multiple times. mushrooms have so many benefits you guys they help with glowy skin they give you nice nails they help with weight loss they're just really really good for you there's so many medicinal benefits so we like to recommend putting some foursigmatic in your smoothie you know that my major thing is taking a hot cup of water and mixing the hot mushroom cacao powder into it and putting lemon in it there's something about ending the night that way that really just gets me go going. Four Sigmaatic is adding so many great products of the line. But if you were, Lauren, if you were going to start with one, is that the one you'd start with?

I think if you're trying to get off coffee, you should start with the Lions Main. But if you want to wind down at night, I would start with the hot mushroom cacao. I'm like so obsessed with that one, then I just go back to it every single time. That's the one that I first got introduced to was the Lionsman, just the straight mushroom coffee. I heard about it the first time on Tim Ferriss's show and I really trust his judgment. So I had to listen and, you know, go buy that product. And I loved it. And since then, now I'm using the focus shots. Sometimes just do the straight lines main focus. I have done the macha.

Macha's great too. You guys, you can't go wrong with all their products. They come in these tiny little packets that you can throw in your handbag. I keep some by my bed. I have some in the kitchen. I have some in my car. They really are gold. There's a reason we brought Terrell on this show multiple times is because he's great.

The products are great. Four Sigma is great. I would talk about them if they weren't a show partner. I would talk about them for any reason. They're just great products. Yep. And just don't take one of their shots, though, at 5 p.m. at night. Let's save that for the morning instead of the nighttime because you were bouncing off the walls. Or if you want to be fired up and focused that late at night, then you should. Guys, you got to check it out. We've talked about it multiple times. If you want to check out 4Sigmatic. Go to 4Sigmatic.com slash skinny and enter promo code skinny at checkout for 15% off your first order.

again that's foursigmatic.com slash skinny f-u-u-r-s-ig-m-a-t-cic slash skinny and promo code skinny for 15% of your order trust me you will thank us their products are great yeah my first book came through a bigger publisher an imprint of ping on random house and for this book i decided to self-publish and self-publishing those like pros and cons so if you want to get your book on barns and noble you want to become new york science bestseller you kind of have to go through the publishers. Traditional problems.

Yeah, and they're kind of, it's Oliqaboli. So there's like few players, the Big Five publishing houses kind of dominate the space. And the bookstores are so afraid, or partly of Amazon, they don't want to collaborate unless there is a bigger publisher. So there's definitely a time in place if you want to work with a publisher. And they sometimes can give you a decent advance. But if you don't have a big platform, if you're listening and you want to get started, and do you truly believe in yourself,

self-publishing is easier than it's ever been. Plus, most of the sales are already online. I mean, Amazon is not the only one, but it's obviously the dominant. What did you say the percentage was? Well, it depends on the books, but it could be like 70, 80, 90% of book sales could be coming from Amazon. So if you have a great story, and especially if you are an expert of something specific, so if you're listening and you're like, I know interior design in this Persian fact. and nobody's written a book on how do interior design in the Persian style in the 1700s or I don't know, whatever niche thing is, it's so much easier to go self-publishing. And you can actually make more money because when you go with a publisher, you get a royalty.

And the royalty is very small. Everybody has a different number, but it's a very small. Versus even if you sell a $10, $20 book, you get most of it through Amazon. Amazon takes a cut, but at the end of the day, it's a way. You can make on a small book way more money if you self-published. But it's pros and cons. It serves a purpose to go through a publisher sometimes, but for a lot of people probably listening,

if you have a dream or if you want to build to become a topic area expert, self-publishing might actually be easier and better than it's ever been. When you have an idea like this and you see the New York Times article that you saw on the cartoon and you're like, I have to execute on this idea, what are the steps that you take to move the boulder up the mountain? Yeah, that's great. First of all, making a book is a lot of work. I think out of everything I've done, it's one of the hardest.

It's insane. Yeah, I agree. So the only time, only time to do a book when you have to do a book, when it has, it's like inside of you and you have to get it out. Otherwise, I can't recommend it. You can make more money and influence more people and help others and tell your mission so many other ways better than making a book. if it's something that you truly want to do,

I think the step one is really, really think, what are you trying to tell and what you achieve before you start writing? So I think it's the same with starting a business, starting a podcast, whatever is like first thing, kind of like pre-production, production, post-production. So pre-production is who are you writing to? What is the key message? I really like the hero's journey as a framework for any kind of a book.

So thinking, just going through the Campbell's Hero's Journey model and kind of thinking of how to tell the story and how to face it out. But then you actually write it, and then the editing is a lot of work. So that's editing process. I highly recommend using people who are experts. So get someone, pay someone to do the book cover and to make the edits. Because at the end of the name, name of the book cover, and how well it's executed is a huge part. Especially if you're self-published.

You don't want to look like an amateur. So work with professionals. They're not that expensive. There's a couple networks that have people in the book space that can, you can use as a resource. So there's a lot of people who have professional editors that you can hire for not that much money to go and check out the book. I want to talk to you a little bit about time management because you're still, you know, very heavily involved with 4-Sigmatic. And like I said, you guys are fucking everywhere. How do you find the time as the head of an organization to actually take the time now to write a book?

because most authors are just that. They're professional authors. Most of the time, they do just that write. But for you, you're running an organization. You're running a team. You're involved in a company. How do you also find the time to write? I just saw Ram Dass talk.

And if you're not familiar, he's like quite a significant spiritual thinker. And he lives in Hawaii. And somebody asks him, is like, what is the most important thing these days? And he said, close your TV. And that's, I think the step one is really. think what's priorities in life and we spend a lot of a lot of time on things that are like activities that don't add value so it doesn't have to be tv or Netflix but also it could be all kinds of other things that we could just kill time so just figuring those hours first that's kind

of the low-hanging fruit is if you truly passionate about anything and you want to learn more about it go and listen to these podcasts and learn from them and especially podcast is like we talked last time it's so good because you can do it while you drive or you walk or you do other things but just use the time that you have more intelligent, please. And the other one is when you have a company is obviously hiring great people and training them to be better than you. Most of my employees are smarter than I am,

so they're doing a better job than I could do. But it just takes a while to find those people and train them. And then finally, I actually think writing is not that time-consuming. The problem is to get to that groove. And I think that's probably true for a lot of stuff. Because once you get going, Going. Once you get going, then it blows out. It just comes out because it's inside of you.

The problem is like, so I'll give another anecdote, like love. Like people say love is hard. But like when it is right, it's right. It's just like finding the right situation when it's right. Writing is very similar than than loving or caring is, in my opinion, is that it just needs to write circumstances. You can't pursue love. You can't pursue writing. It has to ensue. Like you have to have their circumstances. For me, it means like inspiration. Usually it's nature. Like this book I went to my best friend has like this remote island in Finland. And I went there without internet to kind of finish the book. That'll get you inspired.

Yeah. We were like naked for like a week in the Finnish archipelago and went to the sauna twice at day eight and this road. So that was like one way to do it. But you, I think I need uninterrupted time. So computer, phone, they're all like really nice. not good things. And you start to procrastinate really easily. Like that's the one thing when you have to write. If you have the distractions around you. When I write a blog post, I will literally wait until 1201 at night until it's the next day to write it. And Michael's like, why are you up in bed

writing? And I will wait until the last minute because I feel like I have to wrap my head around it. Yeah. So I guess one thing that helps me get to the groove is just start and write something. I kind of write whatever and then you kind of get going like the first few chapters are the hardest so but again to write the book you need i i need it uninterrupted time i needed good employees um to take care of stuff while i was writing and then i think you just need to kind of set the circumstances that make you get the work done how long did it take you to write the book um it's kind of hard to calculate because like like a lot a lot of time but it's hard to calculate because there's so much time is that procrastination waiting.

And also like getting perspective, wrapping your head around it, that's all part of it as well. Yeah, totally. It's, yeah, it's hard, hard to say how long it took. So when you, sorry, go ahead, Lauren. I was just going to say, no, you can go first because mine's a little. No, I was going to say. So are you, so when you're starting to write, is there a ritual or a pre-ritual or something you do to get in the head space or something?

Yeah. I personally write the best early in the morning or late at night. Like, I don't know why, but middle of the day is really, really, really, hard to write. I start writing by listening to really like energizing music. So I listen to like Clitchmop is like a band. I was just like, but once I get the group, I want the music out. But in the beginning, I just want like energy that get me going. I definitely use all kinds of energizing, focusing beverages, like different like chocolate tonics with mushrooms and all kinds of stuff. Which one are you going towards though out of your products? Lately I've been using macho when I write.

just because I've been like, I've been eating that, but I also love all kinds of cacao-based. Like, cacao is of fun. Like, it gives you a little bit of a perk, but not too much. I'm obsessed with the hot, spicy cacao that you guys have. I drink it. I drink it at night. Is that okay?

If that's fine with your body, that's fine with your body. I like it at night. Yeah. So you do the cacao or the macha. Do you do it with almond milk or water? Mostly water. Water. Yeah.

You don't even need to with your products really. You really use almond milk, huh? No, not really. I mean sometimes I put a splash because my water kettle is too hot so I almost like to cool it down but no I don't I don't really need I sometimes add lemon that's smart you know there's actually pretty classic but if you drink coffee and you struggle with coffee try adding lemon like it's I think it's called a narrow coffee like I think the Roman Empire but that acidity adds a little bit sometimes you go to Italy and they give you like slice of lemon on the side but it's like

They got to figure it out. Yeah. Little lemon, I'm telling you. Yeah. So the last time we had you on here, we were joking around a little about psychedelics. We've had Aubrey Marcus on here talking about psychedelics. Since then, Lauren and I have, let's say, but how did you say this? We've expanded our horizons.

We've tried psychedelics. Yay. Multiple times now. We wanted to talk about it on the show for a while. We want to talk about with the right person. Yeah, but we want to talk about the right person and like dissect. And we all said, Tara is a fun guy. Yeah.

Taking your joke. We'll talk about a little bit more. But I wanted to talk about, I guess, a broad experience for those. that are thinking about psychedelics, the best entry point. And then I guarantee this part of the conversation will go into a lot of places. But I just wanted to get your take on like if someone's thinking about it and getting started where they start with the disclaimer that, yes, we know it's illegal here in America. It might have to go somewhere else.

And by the way, this Santa book is around a mushroom called Amanita Muscaria, which is legal in every state except Louisiana. And that's a psychedelic. And that's a spoiler as well. So Christmas is based on part psychedelic mushroom. But to answer the question, there's many kinds of psychics. Codellics. Rule one is definitely you need to do your research. Like do not take if somebody gives you in a party or somewhere like take this like do not start that way. Kind of like having, losing your virginity at like blackout drunk with a guy you don't know or girl you don't know. Sounds like Michael's experience. Was that the case? I haven't heard the story. The guy was really nice. Oh, okay. Okay. He was kind. Well, that makes it better.

A little sore, but... Yeah, fair, fair enough. I agree, yeah. You just don't want to start that way, you know. I think it's true for anything. You just want to do a little bit of background research. So as far as psychedelics, they are like the black belt, the black belt of mind expansion.

So they're not the only way to expand your mind. There's so many other ways. So think of like journaling, breathing, talking with your friends, going to see a therapist, walking in nature, traveling alone, those are all great ways to learn more about yourself. So there's so many ways to embark on your personal development growth journey. What is different about psychedelics versus, let's say, breathwork, which are all both awesome, is that breathwork is like surfing. You go and paddle out into water, you wait for a wave. The way it might come. Might not come. Sometimes you don't

catch any wave. Then you wave comes. You might not catch it or other person catches it. If you catch it, you don't know how long it is. Psychedelics are more like snowboarding. You go. go with a lift on top of the mountain and you're going to come down. And you're going to come down rolling or beautifully riding. That's a different conversation. You might break your leg or you might not. But the experience is guaranteed. The experience is guaranteed.

There's no judo move or a Zen master who is going to avoid that experience with that right dosage. So that's both a positive thing and a negative thing. I'll tell you my experience with it because like I said, it's a novice, right? Does everyone do this to you? They're like, let me tell you my experience. I bet everyone does this.

I want to hear. If you're at like an expert level and a very high understanding of all of the psychedelics, right? Like I would say that about you. And then someone like me who's just entering that arena. For me, like I've tried all the breath work. I've done a lot of journal, a meditation, talking, all that stuff. And it's fine. I'm somebody that's so internal in my head that I needed something to unlock.

And I don't know how to explain it other than that when we had our experience, it unlocked something in my mind where immediately I was able to make a million different connections, not that many, but a lot of different connections to figure out why I thought the way that I did. And it helped me with a ton of breakthroughs, right? Lauren and I, for our relationship, we had some of the best conversation we've had in years, just being able to like maybe set your guard down a little bit and say, okay, I can understand why this, you feel this way or why this point of view is important to you or why this thought patterns are pointing. So it was just the unlock that enabled me to problem solve at a really high level.

He also was incredibly patient, which is rare. He's a pretty impatient person. So that was interesting. Yeah. Does that make sense? Yes, it does. So actually, what we know, so there's many kinds of psychedelics that's just narrowed down for psilocybin. So magic mushrooms, the most common version of magic mushrooms, which are completely legal in America. You should not do them here.

But if you're somewhere where they're allowed and you're exposed to that experience, what we know about them right now. Which we were. Yes. So if what we know about it now is, or let me get in another anecdote, is like when you're a child, all your neuro pathways are kind of open. So think of all your pathways in your brain like every road in America. Like they're all open. You can drive anywhere. You can go every side road, back road, highway, you can go anywhere.

But in physiology, there's two kind of main rules. One is survive. Every living being. First rule is that they need to survive. Once they've survived, the second step is that they try to conserve energy. This is same for any living. being basically. So as a child, the neuropathways you don't use kind of get blocked. And what is now proven with these brain scans is that a person who's taken psilocybin accesses these rows that they've

not accessed, maybe since they were a child. So there's still so much more research to be made and we're trying to figure out, but they've already proven that literally you think outside the box. And certain blockages or neuropathways, this thing called neuroplasticity, you can kind of expand into new ways of thinking literally. So what you're explaining totally makes sense based on science. You can make connections. For me, it was making connections that I couldn't make without it. I don't know how to say it in a simpler way than that. But it was just like, wow, like it was so powerful almost like, you know, things that were stressing me out or things that were depressing me or things that were depressing me or things were making me anxious immediately solved.

So the tips to your original question, what are the rules? First, do your research, you know, talk to people, read books about the topic. Secondly, do the base work, get your white belt, purple belt, brown belt by journaling and, you know, talking and breathwork and meditation and yoga and other things before embarking on that. And then third one is do it in a space where you feel comfortable and safe. That is a big one. I think that might be one of the biggest ones. That's the biggest for me. Your senses will get heightened. Your pupils will get dilated. You will be like your brain will start racing in a way. And that can go also negative if you're not comfortable where you are. I don't really believe in like bad trips per se, but they're challenging.

So you want to be somewhere where you're comfortable with among people you trust in a place where you're safe and where you feel like you can let go and have this experience. So I think that's really important. We had two different very different experiences. One was on a boat in Croatia in the middle of the ocean with people that we trust laughing, having the best time so open. And I connected lots of dots for my business and my family and just my life. Then we had another experience. Big mistake. At a concert setting.

Big mistake. We did it, decided to eat chocolate mushrooms at a concert. And it was not good. More like a festival setting. So the problem is you had so many different personalities coming out of nowhere and interacting. Because you feel their energy. I literally was just going to say I can see people's energy on it. And it's not always an energy you can escape.

And it's not always a good energy. No, not at all. So I think there's many opinions about this, but I think it just creates more of you. Some people believe that the experience you're having with psychedelics is outside of you, but I think you just get more of who you are. Your senses get heightened.

You can sense people's energy and true intentions a lot better and more precisely, but it can also be something you're not ready to see. You see someone's, so you just want to be around people you're comfortable with. and I do not recommend recreational use, especially starting with recreational use is really, really not a great idea. Yeah, like starting if you're at some raging party and people, whenever my friends ask me about it now,

I say like that's not the right way. I feel like you want to get out somewhere, maybe in nature, or in a place where you can think and be with your own thoughts. It's not something you want to do. I mean, maybe later you could party with it, but it's not something that you do for that. It's something that you do to maybe heal yourself

or make connections. And don't combine million things together. Don't do a cocktail. So don't have alcohol. Don't smoke weed. We had a little bit of wine, but when you take the chocolate mushroom, it does make you not want to drink anymore. Yeah. And I think that's telling.

Yeah. So. It is telling. You're right. You kind of just don't. It's not for you. Everything becomes more beautiful, too. Like the stars are Disneyland.

Yeah. The colors are so plush. So this mushroom on the book Amanita has been in multiple, Alice in the Wonderland and Disney. And when you start to look at some of this creative stuff that has come around all these years, also a lot of music stuff, it all starts to make sense that some of these creatives might have been consuming mind expanding substances. Give examples of who you're talking about. Well, I mean, Alice in the Wonderland, Snow White, start looking at some of these things and there's dancing mushrooms and Al is obviously like psychedelics and Super Mario taking a mushroom and becoming stronger. and there's all these, I think, signals and signs that I don't think there are coincidence.

When we go to Finland with you, Tara is taking us to Finland with 4-Sigmatic. Are we going to try this mushroom that you keep referencing? I don't think. Well, we'll see. This one is not a beginner mushroom. It's a very, it's a gab agonist. It's not like psilocybin. I say that when you take it, you're going to see laughing war snakes and, you know, these turtles that are going to come and attack you and all kinds of stuff that are, it's a very different experience than you probably had in Croatia.

See, I think that's what people, here's the thing. I think people are very scared because they, so that's a very advanced mushroom, right? I think people think that that's what every experience is. And I'll tell you everyone that I don't see any laughing turtle. If you just want to be felt up by a mushroom and not go all the way, what would you recommend? Again, I can really recommend blindly psychedelics to everyone in every situation. I don't think any of us can. Yeah.

So it's just like you just need to have a healthy respect for these substances and understand that this little thing, this little tiny little thing, will change everything in your life for four hours or so. Or in some substances, it could be eight hours, 12 hours. so just having healthy respect for that. But what I can say is that definitely Ammonita Muscaria, that is like the Christmas Santa Claus mushroom versus psilocybin. The Amanita is a lot darker and that's not really recommendable for most people, even though it is legal and you could have it, but I can recommend it. Do you actually go and, this is where I'm confused,

do you go and actually pick the mushrooms when you're in Finland and take the mushrooms from the ground? We're going foraging one. Yeah, but are they all magic mushrooms? Like, I don't under, that's what I don't get. Not all of them, but this one is, and it grows in a lot of places. And yeah, and you then you pick them and you dry them. How do you know which ones are which?

That's the thing is like you can't really on a podcast right now explain. You don't want to send somebody out there to just start grabbing mushrooms out of the floor. Also, for example, this Aminita Muscaria, it has two cousins. The other one is called Death Cap and the other one is destroying Angel, which are both not like a nice names. And the reason being is that almost all mushroom-related poisonings and deaths are related to these two mushrooms. So you really got to know, and this one, family particular, you got to know. With psilocybin, it's a different case.

But like with this one, definitely, like, do not pick it in nature. What's your personal favorite? Not that you're recommending anything. Just what's your personal favorite? First of all, I would say that once you start to explore some of these substances, you realize that there are stacks. there's stacks that like benefit. So for example, there's a culinary and functional,

completely legal mushroom called Lionsmane that supports brain function. So that's what we're drinking. That's what we're drinking in the shop. That's the one I always talk about too. I had to get some work done and I just use your lions made. So combining that with psychedelic might be a interesting experience if you want to go a little deeper. We talked about it before we started recording is like also empty stomach during the day.

I actually think that if you want to drink alcohol, take psychedelics, like don't do it at night. necessarily like day first thing in the morning empty stomach is the jam and be in nature I made a little bit of a mistake the first time I ever tried mushrooms I went to the bowels of the ship and looked in the mirror yes that is actually so common sometimes looking at your partner or dog or yourself in a mirror is maybe not the way to start you know because yeah that would actually be that that's probably on a rocking boat generally people have a very positive experience with

psilocybin it's like a happy mushroom generally that's like anecdotal evidence says that it's like happy fun going but that's maybe the one where people usually get pretty thrown away if they look in the mirror i don't know how to say this right but maybe it's it's also going and do it with the with the right intention yeah right yeah you got to have a question or a blockage or situation so i'm going to go a little vulnerable but a few years ago um my go girlfriend cheated on me. And it was like really hard to forgive her because, you know, I felt hurt. And also I felt like can I trust the next person, right? And I used in that situation, I used Sil Saipen as a way to kind of look at the situation differently, kind of have a new

angle because I was stuck. And in that experience, I saw her like childhood and all the ways how, you know, give all the difficult things she had experienced. And through that experience, I was beyond fine to, you know, forgive her and understand that what she's gone through is also been tough. So it gave you empathy. Yes, it definitely gives you empathy. You accepting difficult things like death. Like that's a very common thing that a lot of people explain when they have these is they somehow deal better with death, life and death. The other theme is like unities. We're all one. We're all going to, you know, we're all going to die, but also we're kind of all part of this living organism from. So it's usually fun when you like start to see trees, breathe or

the sky talking to you or animals come to life and all that stuff you kind of realize that well part of this bigger mechanism it's easy to make everything about us selves but then having this empathy of this unity and being one is one of the common themes that most people experience do you see people abusing mushrooms or is it just not one of those things yeah yeah beyond so mushrooms it's like psilocybin they're safe they're non-addicting forming so that's why i actually think that the loss will change sooner or later because they're non-addicting forming there's so many other psychedelics and drugs that are kind of nasty. For example, I had knee surgery and I had morphine given to me, and that's a whole

another, like those central nervous system drugs, they're like, you realize how people, opiates, like how people get addicted to it. My mom had a hip surgery, and she was given tons of opiates, and like, that's really dangerous stuff. But with mushrooms, they're non-addicting for me. They actually, like, you build tolerance. So if you have one today, you should not have tomorrow. Actually, like, you're not going to feel the effects.

So the mushroom is going to tell you is like you can't have it two days in a row Or you have to go so much more higher in the dosage to feel the same thing So almost most people who have that experience don't want to take it again immediately Like it almost tells you you want a little break you want to break You want to process what you just had because it's kind of a life-changing experience So it also doesn't make you hung over It does not yeah that is true how did we get here? There was a question about should I ask myself that every day

I was just saying you don't see a lot of of people abusing mushrooms. Oh yeah so even though they're not addicting forming you can still abuse them you can abuse a lot of healthy things and like people go to bickram yoga every day like then it becomes like goes beyond even like a lot of healthy eating a lot of people who eat it really healthy too healthy and then they kind of get actually sick so the same thing with these psychedelics you can definitely abuse them so I think a lot of indigenous cultures and people multiple generations kind of use them two to four times a year you know that might have been a more healthier way to use them maybe do you always eat them or are they otherwise yeah there's so many ways

some of them don't taste that great so a lot of people enjoy like chocolate so we make this completely legal mushroom chocolate and I have to love to gift it to people and just say like start with a quarter and they think it's psychedelic even though it's just like shitaki mushrooms and Rishi and chaka and they're like what is that what this is yeah So chocolate is a common way. The other one is tea. The tea absorbs a little faster, but the chocolate tastes great. And that may be easier for a lot of people is through a chocolate.

But you could use it in a liquid. I'm trying it now. Go for it. That's like Ecuadorian harrowome cacao, 81% with 10 mushrooms. Well, for me, like, I've never really understood the recreational side of a lot of things. Like, I drink once in a while. Yeah. But I've never understood, like, chemical compound.

and recreation. Like, I get that a lot of people have problems, a lot of people use it as vices. But for me, I never really understood the benefit of it. So I never got into it. But with this, like, first-handedly, I could say there was a lot of growth that took place with me and within me

from this experience, for sure. And things that I couldn't get through for maybe like a year or two, I was able to. Yeah, I mean, not everybody's going to agree with I say. I just believe that, like, nature is smarter than what we are. And sure, you can create a lot of isolated substances, including psilocybin compounds. that are isolate in the lab.

I just believe that things that are natural are better. By the way, LSD also was originally derived from this type of fungi, air-quid alkaloid. Also, that's kind of in the same, kind of, in the same kingdom. But I'm also not a fan of, so I'm not a fan of recreational use or you've got to be really careful with that. I think that's completely different. And I prefer this kind of more natural things versus some of the more synthetic.

By the way, we all have this psychedelic compound called DMT in our body. It's in every food. It's just on a lower dose. I was going to ask you about that. We all have a psychedelic inside of us also, which is kind of trippy all the time. I've never felt so sharp, so witty, so clear than I have when I tried mushrooms. Like I was, I was on fucking fire. Or at least you thought you were.

No, I was. I was, Michael. It does. It does. It does. I felt like I was, everything was just. Quick, quick, quick, quick. I felt like I accessed a part of my brain that I didn't have access to almost.

Like it almost felt like there was like a stick blocking a passage and the stick was removed and the water could flow. There's one of the largest companies in the world. Their former main person, quite public figure, has told me that every time they had a big problem and strategy, they will take psychedelics before making a decision. How many of your Uber, Uber, super, over successful friends try, like do mushrooms, like microdose?

It's, so the microdosing is a new thing. It's more trendy, but it's insanely, insanely popular. It's insanely popular right now. It's almost like the point when I'm like, I'm like the anti-psychedelic guy now. I'm like telling everybody, like, you've got to be careful because it's become such a thing.

They're like popping it, like Adderall or something like that. But one of my quotes I love is from Steve Jobs. He said, if you haven't dropped acid, you'll never understand Apple. So, I mean, there's so many, there's so many. Wait, so I've never tried acid. What is that have to do with mushrooms? Is that like a different, it's a different type of a psychedelic,

but the point maybe being what I think what he went after is just having those, you know, creative, life-changing moments through these substances that to understand the depth of whatever he wanted to create with Apple. But to answer your question, incredibly popular among successful people. And I could see why. I mean, like I said, there's certain things that you maybe need a little help to work.

Who's the one that, is it Joe Rogan that always says that he believes that we're just monkeys that basically ate a mushroom, one of them got smarter. Yeah, that's like a very common theory called a StoneApe theory. It's basically like, it's not Joe's,

it's much older. But the point being is that we evolved from monkeys to more higher evolved conscious beings through these psychedelics. It's very, there's multiple. variations of it, but it's a very common theory. So the psychedelics are mushrooms, LSD, acid, DMT, and ayahuasca? Yeah, so ayahuasca is technically is DMT. But there's other ones,

there's cactus, like San Pedro Cactus, has this other psychedelic compound. I mean, you could argue weed. Isn't there like something from a toad? Yes, that's 5MEO DMT. So that's like, that's like the rocket ship of all rocket ship. Out of all the things that you've tried, have you tried all of those? No, there's actually so many compounds now, and there's like designer variations of like PLSD. And there's all there, no, I have not. And like I said, I'm not that fan out of like philosophic reasons for some of these more manmade isolate compound. So the answer is no.

Do you like mushrooms the best out of all of them? I just believe that mushrooms are a smarter organism than we. we are and it's a might be a controversial saying. I think when you eat even just like the lion's made mushroom you're eating intelligence. The intelligence is something bigger than we can explain with words. By the way, we can't explain a lot of stuff with words. So like when you meet someone, the saying is that they don't remember what you said. They're how you made them feel. And I think there's so many signals and so many things that we already do that we can't explain with words. But this is definitely like the mushrooms are one of the things that are, I struggle

explaining their intelligence, but I firmly believe in it. So they are pretty awesome overall. If you were to marry a mushroom, which one are you married? Last time you were saying you asked me what I'm going to name my child after these mushrooms. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Is that which mushroom to marry? Yeah. I think Rishi, it's the queen of all mushrooms.

It's like very nurturing, caring, stress-reducing, very motherly. Who are you having sex with? Cortex or corticeps. Why? Because, you know, they're fun. You know, they're like, they're hot. They're hot, you know, they're like fire. They're like, let's get it done.

It's like, it's, yeah. That's what I call Laura. My little cordis up. Who's the smartest? Yeah, Lionsmane or Silas Simon, I guess. Okay. And who are you going to date? Just to take on a date.

She's just going to kind of date all of them, right? Yeah. You date all of them. Yeah. I don't know. I guess so. They're all, or they're all. They all offer something.

Yeah, they all. offer something. So you should name your kids after after this. Each one. Yeah. So Santa Sol Trooms. Yeah. It's a it's out. It's a passion project and won't be interested to see what people think about it. But it's definitely kind of a curveball. Santa Sol Trooms, Terrosol Trumes. Yeah, it's like, yeah, it's a children's book that is also great for adults with beautiful illustrations that talks the story where does Santa Claus come from. I think a lot of people don't realize why we celebrate various holidays. And I think it will be really useful. for us to figure out why do we celebrate Thanksgiving, Halloween,

when, you know, like, and obviously Christmas or Santa Claus is like, arguably the world's most famous person. Beyond any religion or culture, people celebrate Santa. So I think it's pretty useful to figure out who he was. What do your parents think of you? Do they just look at you and beaming ear to ear? I mean, they must be so proud of you with your product line and you being in Sephora and you got your ghost town and your truck and your book. I mean. Oh, the shroom bus.

I forgot about the shroom bus. But the beauty of, at least from my case, my parents and I don't know if you can relate, is in a perfect way they don't care. Amazing. Like the Sephora doesn't really matter. Like they're not surprised either. Yeah. And there's certain things that they're more proud than others and they get really excited.

Like my first book, that was The Healing Mushrooms, that was like information book about mushrooms and cookbook. Like that was my mom was like so stoked about that. But in a way, they don't care. Which is the best. That is the best. They're not impressed, but not in a bad way in a way that keeps your ego at bay. You want people around you that for better for worse, like don't care.

Like they do, they care at the ultimate level to the point where some of these things don't matter. And I think we all need people right that around us. To keep you humble. Yeah, humble, but also like, like you. They're just there for you. Yeah. It's like not because of anything that you're doing. positive or negative. They're just like, remind you, at least like just me being around people I grew up with

reminds me like who I am, whatever happens, good or bad. My dad always tells me don't read your own press clippings. Yeah. I mean, in many ways, that is, that is a good advice. I think you should still, from the eyes of the internet, like, you should know what it's been said. But yes, that can be, that can defeat the ego a lot or hurt the ego. Either way, I don't think necessarily leads into better decisions. What do you think they're going to say after this interview? Well, the thing is I actually, so I haven't actually said this. About all of us.

I actually haven't said this in any interview, but I think this is probably the greatest thing ever created is the Santa Sol Shrooms. And beyond anything, I'm excited to see how people react. So I think it's kind of like a test a little bit. I'll give it to my firstborn name Rishi. Yeah? Yeah. What do you, Michael, think about this?

There's naming convention right now. We always get into children's names. Yes, it is a theme. Why do you like, why you're so curious? Are you still single? I am. He's going to start blushing. Oh, yeah.

So, yeah, so this happened. After I came on this podcast and you totally said people to DM me, a lot of people DM me, and it got so overwhelming that I decided to go on a dating detox. Oh, my God, I overwhelmed it. She overwhelmed me so much that you stopped dating because of her? Yes. Fuck. You know.

So the answer is yes, and it was very overwhelming. And it was like, you know what? I feel like it's going to happen again now. Because now if you're playing hard to get, it's going to get even worse. The ladies love that. I don't know about that. Now you've got a ghost town too, Anna Children's Park. Oh, yeah.

The ghost town is really, women really want to go into the mountains and the ghost town. That's really a selling point. Terrell will come and haunt your dreams, ladies. This is what you need. Okay. This is what I think. It's a kid. By the way, almost every time a woman has given me advice, they're right, but it's like for men, it hurts first.

Like it, it like stings you a little bit. It hurts the male ego, but then women are right. So I'm really curious to hear what you're saying. I think you need after having long-form conversations with you, someone that likes you for you. Fuck the ghost town. Fuck the product line. Fuck all the other things. You want someone to go do shrooms naked with and go to us.

like you said with your friend, someone that just likes you for your energy. How do I know? Because your whole business is based off energy. No, but how do you, as a guy or girl, if you're, if you're dating someone? Oh, how do you, how do you pick up on it? What's the filter process? Yeah, what's the filter process. Here's what you do.

For men or women. You go in nature, you take shrooms with her on the first date. First date. And you see the energy. Wow. Or you could just line people up and just see the energy. That is pretty hardcore. That is hardcore, yeah.

No, how you know is it's a feeling, it's an energy, and I feel like you have based your entire business off energy and you can pick up on it. And maybe you felt that some of the people that reached out to you were reaching out for the wrong intention. Maybe. Maybe they were for the right intention. Maybe it was just saw a tall, blue-eyed, good-looking blonde dude. Don't stop it now, Michael.

They just jump in head first. No, but intention's important. People can feel it. That's what I like so much about my mushroom experience is I could feel people's intention and see their energy. And some people's energy, I was like, get away from me. One person in particular, a guy came up to me and I couldn't run away fast enough. I was like the copper-tone baby with my, he was like the dog pulling my underwear back

and I was running away from the sky because his energy was so, I don't know, toxic to mine. I don't know, just didn't mix. Yeah. So I feel like you need a girl. About Michael. I learned a lot of things about Michael. She learned that I can pull that underwear pretty hard. No, I learned that you were really open on shrooms.

I was impressed. Your cortisol was down. You weren't as impatient and you were open. Sometimes you're not the best listener. You were a good listener. But most of all, I had such a good time laughing. I was tired the next day from laughing. Yeah.

Sometimes the face hurts because you laugh so much for hours. It sucked your energy almost. Yeah, and that's why I think you're not interested in doing again. The next day or the day after, you're not like the first idea is like, let's do it that again. You're like, wow, that was wild. Like, I need time to figure it up. You're not. That's what I like about it.

Definitely not. You're like, okay, wow, that was interesting. I need like time to talk about it as well. That's the kind of girl you want to meet. That kind of girl. Yeah, I guess so. Or you don't have to chase it. It's just, it's just happens.

Yeah, it just happens. He's going to get some people chasing him. I love giving guys advice. Right, Taylor? We need it. We need it. for sure Terrell, that was so fun.

Where can everyone find your book, your Instagram, your product? It's like not the Instagram. Yeah, let's leave the Instagram. Santa Sol Shrooms, Amazon. That's probably the easiest.

Guys, it's such a cute book. If you especially have kids buy it, but I just think it's a great book to have in your holiday collection. Oh, it's amazing gift. By the way, if you want to have the most unique,

crazy gift this year, this is probably the thing. Like you're going to, it's, I think it will cause a lot of chuggles. So if you do White Elephant or Secret Santa, and you pull out Santa Sol Shroom's book, I think you'll win some points. Can you make like a kit? So with the kit would come like the mushroom chocolates and then like another mushroom with it. Like let's do a kit.

You got to make the Christmas or the Hanukkah or the Christmas kit. Yeah, let's make a secret shroom kit. Okay. Yeah, that's a great idea. We should have, why didn't we figure that out? Kylie Lip kit. What do you... Shroom kit.

Yeah, shroom kit. Okay. So my friend Aaron makes these handmade mugs in Venice, and she made these few of these Amonita mugs. I have few at home. So we'll gift it to some listeners. What do you want them to do? We'll send them a book, a mushroom chocolate, and a mug, and something.

What do you... All you guys have to do is go to mine and Four Sigmaics Instagram and put in your favorite part of this episode. And Tara will gift you. some badass goodies. Yeah. Let's make two people happy. Because one is none and two is one and one is none.

Can we include my favorite spicy hot cacao in it? Okay, so let's make the spicy hot cacao, the book, the mug, and some other goodies that we'll figure out. And maybe Terrell will pop out of a jack in the box of your single. Yeah, totally. On the box. T-da-D-S-S-S-S-E-M-S-I-G-M-A-T-I-I-C. Yeah, just Four-S-S-S-I-G-M-A-C.

Well, I should have probably picked an easier brand name. Just, you know, I'll have an easier. Well, if our listeners don't know about the brand by now, I don't know. Like, they must have mud in their ears because we talk about it every day. I mean, we talk about all the time. You're welcome to come back anytime you want to talk about shrooms, Santa selling shrooms, single life. I can't wait to go foraging for mushrooms with you in Finland. Yeah, you'll have to come back on so we can talk about.

What are we doing? We're going to try to find the northern lights or look at the northern lights. We're staying in igloos. Class igloos. Yeah, might be welcome after we've had that experience and we'll talk about that. talk about that after. I feel like you want us to be, there's an element of surprise. Oh, 100%. Yeah. I'm not telling me. Yeah, I could see his devilish gray. I was trying to get it out of him earlier when we were talking in the office and he was being very secretive. Yeah.

All I could say this, Lauren, it's going to be a little dark over there. Yeah. It'll be it'll be, it'll be, I mean, it's definitely an, it's going to be an experience you couldn't buy even with money. It's something, something special, but better for worse. It will be a experience you will always remember. I'm so excited. I'm going to wear my mushroom necklace. Terrell got me a mushroom necklace. Yeah. So cute. Who is the spy?

Teeny, she has a brand called Handel Only With Love, and she makes these handmade jewelry. You can go Handel Only With Love.com, I think. She makes these, like, small handmade jewelry and dream catchers and whatnot, and she made little mushroom necklace for you. It's pretty cute. It's so cute, you guys. Thank you so much for coming on. Thanks for having me on again.

Thank you, Teru. Thanks, guys. Hey, guys, thank you for tuning in again. Don't forget to check out the new podcast. site over at tccpodcast.com. All of the show notes from this episode and all of our other episodes can be found there. It's a really great resource that highlights all of the great people we've had on this show, all of the awesome resources they've recommended, as well as the ones that we recommended ourselves. Really easy to find stuff on that site. It also has a section for new

listeners trying to get caught up to speed. So check it out at tscpodcast.com. And for those of you that just want to check out the Instagram, just check us out on Instagram at TSC Podcast. We will be back next week. This episode was brought to you by Four Sigma one of our favorite companies, one of our favorite sponsors. We interviewed Taro, the founder on this show multiple times. This was his second time on the show and we had to bring his brand on as a sponsor. Four Sigmaics, specialized in superfoods, medicinal mushrooms, and adaptogenic herbs. And they make drinking mushrooms and superfoods delicious and easy to do with

their mushroom coffees, mushroom soups food blends, and mushroom elixirs. If you're looking for a coffee alternative switch up your caffeine intake, Four Sigma has the blends for you. They're all delicious, just open a pack and add to hot water. They don't taste like mushrooms and like always we have a special offer just for him and her listeners. Go to foursigmatic.com forward slash skinny and enter promo code skinny at checkout for 15% off your entire order.