The Bossticks - #48: Mark Manson: The Subtle Art Of Not Giving A F*ck

Episode Date: January 31, 2017

Author, Blogger, & Entrepreneur Mark Manson, joins Lauryn & Michael to discuss his book "The Subtle Art Of Not Giving A F*ck." A counterintuitive approach to living a good life. Manson details the struggles he encountered writing the novel, why he chose to pursue an internet business, how he went from a blog to a book, and the fact that failure propelled him forward. To Connect with Mark click HERE To connect with Lauryn click HERE To connect with Michael click HERE This episode is brought to you by The Skinny Confidential Bombshell Body Guide and Meal plan.  tired of combating inflammation & bloat? Want to feel lighter and sexier? Check out lauryn's latest 7 day meal plan. In this simple & super effective plan you'll find: + tsc grocery list with every ingredient you need for the 7 days. + what the f*ck to do when you love carbs guide. + quick and delicious recipes: breakfast, snacks, lunch, dinner and dessert. You will also find 28 weeks worth of fat burning, muscle toning, 27 minute long, effective workouts you can do at home with no equipment. USE PROMO CODE: HIMANDHER at Checkout for 20% Off

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That's Kopari, K-O-P-A-R-I-Beauty.com slash skinny for 20% off. The following program is a podcast1.com presentation. She's a lifestyle blogger extraordinaire. Fantastic. And he's a serial entrepreneur. A very smart cookie. And now Lauren Everts and Michael Bostic are bringing you alone for the ride. Get ready for some major realness.

Welcome to the skinny confidential, him and her. Welcome back, guys. It's Tuesday. We've got a super extra special episode for you. It is definitely one of our favorite authors and bloggers Mark Manson today is on the podcast. We're not going to do a super long intro because we are so excited to have him. him. But we just wanted to say hi, happy Tuesday. And thank you for subscribing and listening. Yeah, we recorded this late last week. And, you know, Lauren introduced me to Mark Manson.

You know, I think middle of last year. And I really, really liked his writing. We got his book, which we'll be talking about on this episode, which is called, it's also one of my favorite titles, The Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fuck. And it's bright orange. It's bright orange. It's marketing genius. because everybody in their right mind wants to Instagram this and put it on their Instagram and show everybody. I can't remember if he said it was on purpose or not. I think it's on purpose. So I really appreciated the marketing behind this book.

And I ended up gifting and sharing this book with a lot of people. Before we get into our interview with Mark Manson, I want to tell you guys about Michael Lauren clothing. Okay. So when I was in Las Vegas for like five seconds, a week ago, I was rocking this week ago. I was rocking this onesie, and it was this leopard print onesie that was amazing. I actually loved it so much that I slept in it, and then I wore it on the plane with a leather jacket over it, and then I got off and wore it the entire day. It was very Kylie Jenner of me.

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Is that not amazing? It's very, very fitting. So yeah, with that, we are going to jump right into the interview so that you guys can hear. And I hope you enjoy. This is the skinny confidential, him and her. Okay, guys, today we have Mark Manson on the podcast. He's a best-selling author, entrepreneur, and blogger. He has a highly popular blog called Mark Manson.net.

And recently released a book which Lauren and I both love called The Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fuck. which is a New York Times bestseller. So, Mark, thanks for coming on. Thanks for having me. Good to be here, guys. We're so excited to have you. So let's get right into it. Just tell us some background on yourself.

So I started blogging 2008, I think. And I started out actually with dating advice because I was a young single guy and I wanted to know what the hell I was doing. So figured what better way didn't start blogging about it. And it eventually kind of morphed into just general life advice and started writing about all sorts of issues like happiness, motivation, life purpose, things like that.

And I had a little bit of a different take on it. And the blog started to blow up about five years ago. And then I wrote a book and it blew up last year and now here I am. Talking to you guys. Okay. So I'm dying to know where you give your five. So it changes, right? Like it changes where you give your fucks changes as you grow older and experience more.

And recently, for me at least, I just got married, just moved back to the U.S., settled down. And so my fuchs have been simplified a lot. I spend a lot of time with my wife and a few friends. trying to kind of enjoy a domestic life, which is very different than my life in my 20s. So it's been very nice just giving a fuck about kind of basic boring things recently. So can you tell us a little bit about your background? I know you mentioned briefly that you got into dating. And I read in your book, at one point you were actually like traveling all over South America.

You just kind of said, fuck it and went off on your own. Yeah. Where were you at that point in your life? And how did you get to this point? because now you're married and obviously you're settled down a little bit, but for a while there, sounds like you were kind of wild man. Yeah, I was. I was a big party guy.

You know, I was out drinking and partying three, four nights a week, sometimes more. And, you know, one of the big motivations for me starting an internet business was the freedom of location that I could work anywhere in the world. So I spent about six and a half or seven years traveling around the world living in different places. So I lived a number of years in South America. I lived out in Southeast Asia for a while, lived in Europe for a while. And it was a ton of fun. It was really great.

But a number of years ago, I met my wife in Brazil. She's a Brazilian. And it just kind of, once I kind of hit 30, it was time to wind things down. get a little bit more serious about things. And that's actually a big inspiration of the book was for me, I look back at my 20s and I gave a fuck about a lot of what I recognize now is superficial things.

You know, being the fun, cool party guy, having all these amazing experiences, meeting tons of girls. And now that I'm, you know, I kind of reached a point in my life from, I'm like, wait a second, this stuff isn't actually that significant. I need to start focusing

and giving a fuck about the few things that are significant. And so that informed a lot of the wisdom that came out in the book. Okay. So you used to work a traditional, I wouldn't call it traditional, but you had a nine to five before you started blogging, right? Yes, very briefly. And was that before or that was after you were traveling or before? Before.

Okay. So like what made you make the switch and how did you figure out that you could actually make a living? because I mean 2008, 2009 is pretty early for, you know, to start blogging and start a business like this. Yeah, it was, it was a combination of a number of things. One, I, well, first of all, the great recession hit. So like job market was trash. There was like no good opportunity.

So I ended up kind of getting stuck in a job. I really didn't like it wasn't paying very well. And there's really no opportunity. there was no opportunities in sight for like changing or moving up. So I was 24, 23, and so I didn't really have anything to lose by trying this crazy internet thing. You know, it's like I was already broke. So if I'm going to be broke for the next couple years, I might as well be broke like trying out this internet entrepreneur thing. I want to know how you went from blog to book.

They actually, the publishing industry actually, actually. actually got in touch with me, I had an article called The Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fuck that went crazy viral. I think it had more than 1 million likes on Facebook and about, I think, 7 or 8 million page views. And I mean, I had already kind of been contacted by some agents and editors and stuff like that, but I never really, it didn't seem like there was much serious interest there. But then after that article, some people got pretty serious about it and saw the size of my audience and were like, yeah, we should definitely do something with this guy. Okay. So this brings us to the first chapter in your book, which is called Don't Try, because

I think this can be a little bit confusing for some because obviously in these stories we're hearing from you, there is, you tried in a lot of things and you have a successful platform and you have a large audience and a book is no easy thing to to write and to accomplish. So can you briefly explain why the first chapter of the books don't try and what you're trying to convey to the readers? It's, I think the simplest way to put it is that old quote from, from Yoda and Star Wars is try and not, but do. I love that quote.

Do or do not, there is no try. Yeah, that's what it is. Yeah. And it's, I like the concept behind that because it's a lot of people, for a lot of people, the idea that they're trying to do something is a way for them to avoid actually doing it. So they convince themselves, you know, hey, I watch these videos on YouTube and I like called a few people and I like sat down for an hour and wrote a few words. And so I tried to start a website, but in the end, they're not actually doing anything. They're doing things that appears like they're accomplishing something without actually accomplishing anything.

And so I used the story of Bukowski in that chapter to kind of illustrate this whole idea of like, you know, if you're trying to be something, then you're actually preventing yourself from being it. And it's actually that letting go of this idea of trying so hard is when you're actually free to go accomplish things. It's almost like when you're chasing money so hard, you're never going to find it. It's kind of almost like, you know, at least in my experience, I think even in Lawrence's experiences, when you're not looking for something, it tends to manifest itself. Yeah. So it's interesting to think about like that because some people, you know, they focus so hard

on certain things and they just never get there and they can't figure out why. Yeah, and I There's a concept in there called the backwards law Which is you know in psychology they found that it's it's it's the more you tell yourself You need to be happier you need to be successful you need to be Um Loved and popular it's you actually make yourself feel worse because you're reinforcing this idea that you don't have it already I mean clearly you're really into psychology did you study that in school?

Um, no I actually I studied international business and politics. And psychology was always just a hobby for me. It was something I read on the side for fun. I read a lot of nonfiction. That sounds like Michael. Yeah, I mean, I'm a, I'm a psychology expert now.

No, not really. But no, I, you know, I identified a lot with your writing. I think we have some very similar messaging. And I, you know, when I read your book, I was like, wow, somebody's really actually contextualizing this and putting it into really clear, blunt words that people can really understand. So in the book, you talk a lot about happiness.

And you said something that both Lauren and I, like, we really can't agree with more. You said happiness comes from solving problems. And we kind of, we didn't say it as clearly on this podcast, but we talk kind of about the power of, like, suffering a little bit and understanding that, you know, nothing's ever going to be perfect. There's always going to be shit that happens.

Can you elaborate on what you mean by happiness comes from solving problems? What are you trying to message to people? Yeah. So I think a lot of people out there who are unhappy and they're seeking happiness, seeking help, they start with the wrong assumption. They start with the assumption that the problem in their life is that there's all this unpleasant stuff going on. And if they could just get rid of that unpleasant stuff, everything would be great.

And this is actually a really bad starting point because the fact is that there's always going to be unpleasant stuff in life. There's always going to be shit that's going wrong. And the issue, the thing that is depriving people of happiness or preventing them from being happy is not that they don't feel good all the time. It's that they don't feel that the unpleasant means something. It's not worth something. I bring up a bunch of examples in the book if you think back over the course of your life, the most important and meaningful stuff

that brings you the most joy is often some of the most difficult stuff to deal with, you know, raising a child or starting a business or hell, I just got married. I think you guys, I saw on your Instagram, you guys just got married, I believe. Planning a wedding is like a nightmare. I almost didn't make it out of that one.

We didn't kiss up at our wedding. We had 55 people and it was the people we only loved and we just, we were kind of brutal about it because it was like we just wanted the people that were so close to us, like our best friends and family. So we definitely applied your books philosophies to our wedding. No, but it's funny when you think back on it, like, you know, during the planning and the back and forth, as you know, it can get really heated and it could get really stressful. But now I look back on those moments.

I'm like, oh, wow, that was actually fun. That was worth it. And I remember more of that than I, probably because of all the tequila than I do have the wedding. That's funny, though, because we did the same thing with ours. We got pretty ruthless about who we invited and knew. You know, some people started kind of like raising a fuss about stuff. And we were just like, all right, don't come. It's not our problem.

And yeah, we ended up with about, I think, like 75 people. and it was fantastic. But yeah, just getting there is like it's a struggle, but it's worth it. And part of what makes it feel so worth it is the amount of sacrifice because that sacrifice gives meaning to that event. And so you need that, like that struggle is actually like a necessary part of happiness in those cases. Okay.

Before we get into how long it took for Mark's blog to start. crushing it. I wanted to talk to you guys quickly about movement watches. Movement was founded on the belief that style shouldn't break the bank and these watches definitely do not break the bank. As you guys know, I'm a big watch aficionado collector. I love watches and movement really makes some great timepieces at really affordable prices. The company's goal is to offer high quality minimalist products at revolutionary pricing that is really hard to beat. If you remember, a couple weeks back. Lauren and I were in Hawaii and we were wearing the watches and also my new favorite aviators, which are also by movement. I love them because I have a really difficult

time finding glasses that fit on my weird small head and these ones look really good on me for whatever reason. So I like the glasses as well as the watches. So movement watches started just $95 at a store. You're looking at 400 to 500 bucks a pop and movement figured out that by selling online, they were able to cut prices across the board. They have now sold over 500,000 watches and over 160 countries. So get 15% off today with free shipping and free returns by going to movementwatches.com slash skinny. That's movement watches.com slash skinny. It's also a really good gift for Valentine's Day, which is coming up. So go and check them out now. No, I kind of wish, you know, Lauren and I didn't have any kind of platform at all in the beginning

starting out besides what she was blogging about. And I definitely, I have a couple of business as my own. I had nothing to document what that process looked like. And I wish I did because, you know, with social media these days, we see a lot of images of people really living like these crazy lives and putting their best foot forward. And it makes it look like stuff happens quick. And it makes it look like there's no struggle.

And I think it adds to entitlement. Yeah. How long did it take for your blog to start performing and how long did it take for you to to write this book. Because I know this book is also a process from the blog. Of course. Yeah, so I started blogging. I mean, I started blogging in 2007, but I didn't start blogging seriously into like 2010 or 11.

So I would say serious blogging. It's been about six to seven years. And then the book took about two years, two and a half years, but there was some off time in the middle. But yeah, I went through, I think, three entire drafts before I could even hand something into an editor. I mean, it's for every word that ended up in the book, there was probably two words that were deleted. So it was very painful and difficult at times, not hopeless at times. For me, one of my favorite things about your book as a creative is the cover. It's amazing.

I just loved how you made sure your cover was Instagramable. I actually even Instagrammed it myself and I got all these people, you know, adding each other because it's such a unique cover. Did you keep social media in mind when you design the cover? I, so Harper designed the cover, although I will, I had approval and like feedback. But I love the cover. I love the boldness of it. And I love the color of it. It really stands out in a great way.

And the paint splat was mine because they originally had an asterisk. And I was like, everybody does an asterisk. That's not cool. We need to do something like more interesting than that. Yeah, everyone wants to put it on their social media. I mean, it's amazing. The color's amazing. Everything to me is so this generation.

I just thought it was really like a very unique cover that everyone wants kind of on Twitter and Instagram. It's amazing. I come from a marketing background. And when I saw it, I actually have used the book as an example to some of the guys at work in my office. I was like, listen, if I ever do a book, this is the vibe. Like, this is the type of thing. You make it so everybody wants, I mean,

I hope everybody reads it, but even for those that don't read it, just taking a picture of it because it stands out so much and it's so unique. You know, the bright orange and the black, I think it's, I think it's spot on. And people can, you know, people can go buy it and just look at the cover. I'm fine with that. Yeah.

Yeah, it's one big book that just says fuck in the middle. Yeah. I like it on my coffee table. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so as I said before to you, I read and reread your article on Struggle. I put it on The Skinny Confidential. I got an amazing response to your whole article.

People just couldn't believe it and it resonated with a lot of people. Were there struggles that you endured writing this book? Can you tell us about them? Oh, man. Yeah, where do I start? It's, yeah. So, I mean, the first big struggle was I spent probably six, or eight months putting the first draft together.

And the first draft, I think one thing you have to learn as an author is that the vision you have in your head of what you're working on is going to be is often unrealistic and or slight delusional. So when I started working on this, I had this like grand vision in my mind that this was going to be this epic, like, philisional. philosophical book that like but was also popular and accessible to you know just random people on the street and and I remember I worked on it for like six or eight months it was incredibly long it was like over twice as long as it I think it was like almost 500 pages and uh I showed it to a few

people close to me um and pretty much the universal feedback was like this is boring as shit This is like This is They're like the ideas are really smart But yeah This is just my God Mark what are you doing And kicking the nuts

Yeah so I You know After about a week of drinking And wiping my tears away I came back to it And I could actually After after some time I could actually see

What they were talking about And I think what happened was I had some insecurities around like this was going to be my first big book and it was going to be published by a major publisher and so a lot of people were going to read it. And so I had to like prove myself in this big way, like how smart I was and how clever I was. And ultimately that that need to prove something led me away from how I write and how my voice should sound. So it was a nice little, a big slap in the face. Do you say that because you felt like because this is your first big nonfiction book that you had to make it sound like more credible in a way?

Like more, I'm trying to figure out the right word, more like an official, how an official author would write a nonfiction book. Like you got out of your blog voice is what you're saying. Yeah, essentially. And I think I've always had, you know, coming from the blogging world, like, you know, know, as I said earlier, like, I don't have a degree in psychology or philosophy or any of this stuff. So coming from the blogging world, you're basically, you're largely ignored by the mainstream media. Like, you're not taken seriously. And so I think I just had a chip on my shoulder. It was like, oh, this is my shot. I'm going to prove to everybody, like, how smart and put together

I am. And yeah, I totally got away from what made people like my writing in the first place. What I really like about the book is when I was reading it, I felt like I was actually listening to you how I'm listening to you now. Like you could really, you could really tell this book is written in your own words and in your own voice. And I think, you know, it's, it's commendable that you were able to go back and take that feedback and go and go and launch with this because I think it maybe would have been a miss if you wouldn't have done that. Yeah. Oh, totally. And I don't know if they would have let me publish it. But yeah, it's something that I've learned, and especially talking, you know, having met a number of authors in the last year or two, it seems to actually be kind of a common experience, is that there's this excruciating period as you're writing a book where you have to accept that that vision you had in your head was just not realistic.

You have to let go of it and accept like what's what's actually going to work. And doesn't it feel like for me when I wrote the skinny confidential book, it feels more permanent than the blog for some reason? Because I feel like with the blog, you can go in and kind of edit it. But with the book, it's like there and it's like your kids are going to read it. It's kind of like a crazy feeling. It is. And it's something too that for whatever reason sticks with people more to. I mean, if you think about, you know, just myself, if I read a, like, there's, there are books I read 15 years ago that I still recommended people and tell people that are, they're great.

I can't, I couldn't tell you three blog posts I read last year. You know, it's like, it's just, they don't stick for some reason the same way. Yeah, that's crazy. So you obviously read a lot. And there's some very stoic philosophies in this book. and I read a lot of stoicism. Is that an inspiration in this book or in your life? It's something, stoicism is always something I've appreciated and I relate to a lot.

It's funny. I actually, you know, so the big stoic guy, the big stoic renaissance going on right now is kind of being pushed forward by Ryan Holiday. And I'm friends with him and have talked to him a number of times about this. Like my background is actually in Zen. Buddhism, which is very, very similar to Stoicism and that it kind of just is like, shut up, you don't know anything. Get over yourself.

So like I spent, I practiced then for a number of years in college and after college. So that's kind of like my roots. And there's a lot of overlap there. Awesome. So you kind of touched on the media a little bit. And there was a passage I read in your book. I can't remember which section it was. but I remember that I actually I liked it so much that I

Snapchatted it to everybody and you're basically writing about how the media plays both sides of the fence right now and they offend one group of people to get a reaction from the other group which then generates another reaction then basically people can't take their eyes off it can you give an example of how that's happening and kind of why you brought that up oh man it's it's at that at this point that's pretty much all the media is. And look, it's not necessarily that there's... The problem isn't, I think a lot of people,

they think the problem with the media these days is that it's not trustworthy or like the information is bad. And I actually don't think that's the problem. I think a lot of the information is probably true. The problem is the way it's presented. I think like everything we're seen lately with the Trump stuff, with like the intelligence report

and the connections to the right. Russia and all of that. Basically, the media will, it will initially be presented in one way, which makes Trump look horrible. And then, and then you actually dig into the reports a little bit and see that there's not really anything that's substantial there. And so then it's presented in another way that makes, you know, liberals look horrible. And then, you know, they'll dig a little bit further into it.

And then they'll present it in a third way that makes the right look horrible. And so it's not the whole like what actually happened kind of gets lost at some point because everybody's just getting so caught up and like being angry at each other. And what's interesting to me about Trump, all of the things aside, is that Trump seems to be the first politician that really understands internet media. Like he understands this and he knows how to play it. And so when he hosts a news conference, he knows that he doesn't actually have to answer. questions factually, he knows that all he has to do is just find a way to like stoke some more outrage and anger and now keep the media cycle going for, you know, another two or three weeks. So I think what happens here is like ultimately the public loses out. Like we're the ones who

like the more we kind of get sucked into this soap operization of information in media. Like the the less we're actually able to give a fuck about what actually matters, which is what is the shit that's happening in our government and our society? No, I mean, whether people are pro-Trump or against Trump, I think, you know, there's very little understanding that the media and the people actually played a large part in the outcome of that election because they paid attention to a lot of the stuff he was doing. And like you said, he really understands marketing in the current media landscape. and I don't think a lot of his competition did,

which kind of brings me to the next point that I want to talk to you about. A lot of people, you know, they make excuses, they get mad, they don't take ownership to their problems, and then they're surprised when things don't go their way. Can you speak on this? It's kind of like, it's kind of a big theme on this show, is like basically taking ownership, understanding that, you know,

we're the creators of our own outcomes and understanding that there's not a lot of outside factors that really contribute. Sure. So it's, it's, there's a quote in my book. I have a chapter on this actually about responsibility. And I, uh, I mentioned that line from the Spider-Man movie where like Uncle Ben is dying and he's like with great power comes great responsibility. And now everybody, I love that you use comic book and Star Wars analogies for the, for all the, for the women that are listening.

You know, I'm super, I'm super pumped on that. No, the best part is is I originally put that. quote on my blog like three or four years ago and I was too lazy to Google who said it like I didn't remember who said it and I was like yeah some philosopher said like with great power comes great responsibility it like somebody emailed me was like you realize that philosopher was uncle ben right I was like oh oh man I feel like an idiot but um so but I flipped that around and I say with with great responsibility comes great power and basically the argument that I make is that whether we realize it or not, we're essentially choosing all of our experiences.

Yes, things happen to you, shit goes wrong, accidents happen. Yes, there's a lot of stuff that goes on in the world that we have no direct control over, but we are still responsible for our experience for the simple reason that we are always choosing how to react and how to respond to what's going on in the world. So, you know, you can get hit by a car, and it may not be your fault. You may not have had any control over the car hitting you, but you are still responsible for that experience. You are responsible to get better because you have a choice of how to react to that situation. And so I think a lot of people resist this idea, well, for a number of reasons.

One, it's scary to take responsibility for your problems. But I think another reason is that people associate responsibility with blame. So if something bad happens in their life, they're so worried about whose fault it is that they end up just never taking responsibility for it. But the fact of the matter is something might not be your fault, but it's still your responsibility to react appropriately. Okay, before we talk to Mark about failure, I wanted to talk to you guys about something that I'm really enjoying. a product that has really helped me out in terms of saving the way my beautiful face looks, and that is Harry's. So for decades, there's been one big razor company that has been relentlessly increasing

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It's interesting because when you're a creator, that never leaves you. You always have this urge to want to create. It's just who you are. You like the girl from record routes. You know she was a driver the whole time. That's Martellus Bennett, one of our first guests. Who knew this NFL star was also an artist? He's that and much more.

Subscribe to Under 30 on iTunes now, and be sure to give us a rating and a review. This is the skinny confidential, him and her. So we want to talk to you a little bit about failure. You have a chapter called Failure is the Way Forward. Can you tell us about a time in your life where failure actually propelled you forward? Yeah. Well, I use that draft idea that I just told you. So it's funny, actually.

When I initially started my business, I promoted, like, I didn't do much blogging or writing. I actually did a lot of like affiliate marketing and SEO type stuff. So the idea was like to promote products and, you know, make money that way. and I had this huge plan of like launching this this big online course that was going to make tons of money and you know I could kick back with pinia collata on the beach and all my problems would be solved forever and uh it just bombed I spent made nine months working on it and it just bombed horribly and um to the point very very similar story to my own to to the point where I was like wow, I think I'm like doing the wrong thing. Like I think I'm actually bad at this. Like it bombed so

hard. And it forced me to take like a really hard look at what my skill sets actually were. Like what do I actually do that's valuable or good? And when I took like a very honest, like painfully honest look at my business and what I was doing, I was like, you know, I think the only thing I do better than most people is I write better. And people tend to like they like my blogs, like they read my stuff, they email me a lot. I'm a horrible salesman. So like why am I trying to force myself to, you know, I was trying to force myself to be the salesman because I thought I wanted money.

And I was like, you know, if I just focus on the writing, like something good will happen eventually. And it eventually did. So I mean, in that sense, that failure was, although painful, was. incredibly useful. It's kind of like, you know, that experience lets you double down on your strengths and figure out what those were. You know, I think a lot of people get really, really scared of failure because they're worried

of who they're going to fail in front of. What happens then is you get stuck in a funnel where you're kind of just going down a path that you may, you might not necessarily be on, like you shouldn't be on that path. And I think it stops people from actually looking inward, like you said and saying, hey, these are my strengths. This is actually what I'm good at. And when they do that, they can stop wasting time

with things that they're not good at. Like in your case, if you're not in sales, why are you doing it? You're never going to improve on stuff that you're not good at. Right. And especially that you don't enjoy

or you're not seeing a return from. And yeah, it's about getting your fucks a lot of in the right places. Okay, so last question. Where do you see our generation giving their fucks? You mean today or in the future?

I would say today. and in the future, what do you see, you know, for the generation of 20 to 40, where do you see the majority of them giving their fucks? I think our generation, our generation is very interesting for a lot of reasons, I think. I think, and I think our generation has a lot going for them. Like, we're more educated than any other generation before us.

We're more tech savvy. We're very good on things like tolerance and diversity and open the new ideas and different lifestyles and things like that. I think all of that is unquestionably good. Those are good things that we give a fuck about that previous generations didn't really. I think our generation's weakness is that because we've grown up with the internet, we don't know how to manage our attention. And I see that as like the biggest kind of universal problem.

in in like first world society today we see so many options that we can't kind of focus down on one task at a time yes and that we get lost in stuff that's that's very dramatized or overhyped or or you know the flavor of of the hour you know like what what meme is getting spread on on facebook or whatever that week um and i you're starting to see this be reflected in in our media and our politics and our social policies. Like, it's nothing is, everything is kind of being gutted of substance because it's all just everything is oriented towards getting clicks and eyeballs. And on the one hand, like we can complain about that.

But on the other hand, like the only real way to change that is to become conscious of the information that we're consuming and how we're managing our own attention. No, and I think what's dangerous about it is people, give up a lot quicker. You know, back in the day, if you chose it, let's just use, you want to be a farmer, you want to, you want to choose a certain profession. When shit got hard, you didn't just say, well, there's another option. I'm going to go do that. I mean, you didn't really have another option. You had to stick with it. So with the current state of the internet, you kind of like, oh, well, I tried that and it didn't work. I'm going to jump to the next thing. And that

cycle starts to repeat itself because you think, hey, you know, I tried this for a few months and it didn't work. So I'm going to jump ship and do the next thing. Yeah. And it's a great book that came out last year called Deep Work by Cal Newport. And one of the arguments that he makes is he said that, you know, there's a lot of great things in life that can only come to you when you've invested 10, 20 years in like the same skill or the same job or the same hobby or craft. And I think our generation is not really putting themselves in a position to benefit from stuff. like that. I completely agree with you. I think what you just said is so valuable. I completely, completely agree with you. So basically anyone that's out there that's a blogger or an author or an

influencer, creator, I think that everyone should really take what you just said to heart. Or anyone, any profession. I mean, I really think it applies across the board. It's hard. It's hard being in our profession because we feel the influence on both sides, right? So it's like, as content creators were like, well, we need to get clicks. Like, we need to like put stuff out there that, you know, people like and people want to share. But on the other hand, it's like there's this invisible line that you don't want to cross of, like, good tastes or bad taste.

And like, you don't want to be like part of the problem yourself. So it's a weird. It's a weird battle between good content and distribution. Yeah. Unfortunately, in your profession, you kind of need both. I mean, yeah. I know. I wish it was just content.

I know. I would love to just write all day and be creative. Yeah, you and me both. So on that note, where can people find you? Where can they get your book? Tell us all your social media handles. Sure. So the website is markmanson.net.

The book is called Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fuck. It is available bookstores and Amazon everywhere. And on Facebook, I am Mark Manson Net. Same on Instagram, Mark Manson, Net, and Twitter. It's at I am Mark Manson. Thank you, Mark. Buy his book, you guys. It's amazing.

We love it. It looks super cute on your coffee table. It's a great Instagram and the inside's good, too. Yes, buy it for the cover. Buy it for your grandparents, too, to show them the cover. Yeah. Yeah. To give them a small stroke.

Thank you, Mark. Thanks, guys. It was fun. Bye. Okay, that was incredible. Thank you so much, Mark, for being on The Skinny Confidential Him and Her podcast. We love you. If you guys want to read more on Mark, you can head to his blog.

You can also Google the Skinny Confidential struggle to read about what I wrote about Mark on my blog. Remember to send in your questions to Twitter or Instagram. You guys can always use the hashtag Ask Him and Her. Follow us on Snapchat because tonight we are speaking at the collective conference on business and branding. So it should be fun. And we think we're going to podcast the entire episode. So for all of you guys around the world who can't be there in L.A., you'll be able to listen. And Taylor, if you guys miss it, we'll be in the back filming like a creep per usual. So you guys will be able to probably catch it on YouTube. And I think we'll post the audio one of these days soon to the podcast.

In the meantime, you guys can go to podcast on the skinny confidential.com and send in your questions. We're going to do call-ins again soon. And on that note, we will see you next week. Thanks for listening to The Skinny Confidential, him and her, with Lauren Everts and Michael Bostic. Download new episodes every Tuesday at podcast.1.com or subscribe now on the podcast one app. Hey man, Ace Man here. And that's my trusty licensed partner, Dr. Drew over there. Gotta get it on, man. You know, we used to work together every night and we are back. Wait, wait, but used to. Why don't people get the message we are to? The band is back together. We're doing it still now.

Good. Tell why it's better now, Drew. The Adam and Dr. Drew show. We're unencumbered. We're unlicensed. We're uncensored. We do anything we want. It's the pirate ship, man. Fudge you have. We do what we want. So, you can download the Adam and Dr. Drew show now

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