The Bossticks - #50: Jordan Younger: The Balanced Blonde, Orthorexia, Veganism, Working with Brands

Episode Date: February 14, 2017

Blogger, Author, Yoga Teacher, & Podcaster Jordan Younger (@thebalancedblonde), joins Lauryn & Michael to talk about the controversial move of shedding her vegan label & the subsequent death threats that accompanied it, steps you can take to be proactive when dealing with an eating disorder, finding quality not quantity when networking, and what prompted Jordan to write about people in the industry buying Instagram followers. To listen to Jordan's Podcast Click HERE To connect with Lauryn click HERE To connect with Michael click HERE This episode is brought to you by The Skinny Confidential Bombshell Body Guide and Meal plan.  tired of combating inflammation & bloat? Want to feel lighter and sexier? Check out lauryn's latest 7 day meal plan. In this simple & super effective plan you'll find: + tsc grocery list with every ingredient you need for the 7 days. + what the f*ck to do when you love carbs guide. + quick and delicious recipes: breakfast, snacks, lunch, dinner and dessert. You will also find 28 weeks worth of fat burning, muscle toning, 27 minute long, effective workouts you can do at home with no equipment. USE PROMO CODE: HIMANDHER at Checkout for 20% Off

This episode is brought to you by 5-4 Club. Okay, boys and girls, if you want to look really good at really affordable prices and don't want to take the time to shop online or go to the mall, I have a rad solution for you. And that's 5-4 Club. Okay, so it's an LA-based fashion brand that delivers curated items for $60 a month. So for $60 a month, you get two to four seasonally curated items to help build up a balanced wardrobe so that you can look good. It's also really awesome is if you are a member of 54 Club, you get an additional 50% discount right off the bat on any item off the site that doesn't come in the box. 54 is rad because it puts together different styles based on personal preference and keeps track

of what you have. So when they add anything else to your wardrobe, it complements the pieces that were previously sent. Another great thing about 54 Club is there is free shipping with every shipment directly to your doorstep. So it's hard to pass that up. I have my 5-4 shipments sent to the condo in L.A. So that we're up there. I have stuff to wear because we're always on the go,

and sometimes it's difficult to put these wardrobes together. So it's really easy to sign up. Go to 54 Club.com and use promo code skinny at the signup and get 50% off of your first month's package. And a pair of 5-4 sunglasses valued at $75. This code will expire on February 28th, so use the code while this offer still stands. Again, that's 54club.com promo code skinny.

The following program is a podcast.1.com presentation. She's a lifestyle blogger extraordinaire. Fantastic. And he's a serial entrepreneur. A very smart cookie. And now Lauren Everts and Michael Bostic are bringing you along for the ride. Get ready for some major realness. Welcome to the Skinny Confidential, him and her.

Welcome back to the show of all shows. of all shows. I told him I would let him to let him do the intro because I feel like I've been doing everything lately. We're here to take you on a journey. No, Michael.

All right, fine, whatever. Okay. Anyways, we're back again. Why does every time you do it has to have like an extra, like an extra end? I want to get people fired up when they turn this on.

You know you hear those plans. I was like, hello, we're back again. Like this week we're talking like... So do like a really good one for like... No, I already did the... Do it one more time. I'm like, we're back, we're here. There's energy.

We're ready to go. Like, I want people waking up right now and just being like, holy shit, we better get, you know, kicking our step here, you know. I'm surprised you have energy after that minestronee soup for lunch. Yeah, that wasn't the best choice, to be honest. I'm not too big of a minestrone guy. Honestly, that was the weirdest order you've ever ordered. He ordered a small bowl of minestrone soup for lunch. Let's not do that again.

Yeah, fuck that soup. We just enjoyed a really good chop salad, garbonzo beans. Taylor got some weird order. He has this weird thing about eating out. Have you heard about it? I know his whole weird thing. I think his grandpa locked him down at the table when he was a child. And so now he's got this weird disorder where he feels like he's a thief if he's sitting at the table and the waiters. Like if he finishes his meal, he has to run out like a thief in the night because he has flashbacks of his grandfather like stabbing him with a fork or something. So, yeah, it's really weird going to dinner with him. This probably affects his dinner dates because he goes on these dates.

And as soon as he finishes the meal, it's like, he's like the hamburger and needs to run out before, you know, grandpa comes running back downstairs at the fork. Speaking of dates, he has one tonight. So Taylor is taking out Annabelle from Adderall and Compliments. And we played a trick on her where we told her that he was going to take her to sir. Yep. when he actually made a reservation, which is super classy of him at the polo lounge. Let's hope that he doesn't pull that whole grandpa nostalgia trip tonight.

Yeah, let's hope. I mean, we can wish in one hand and shit in the other and see which one fills up first. Let's also not pull the whole minestroney suit moment. Anyway, what else is going on? We've been podcasting a lot. We're actually, I think we're getting into a rhythm. It's been close to... A million years.

A million years. It's close to a year now, which is pretty incredible. Yeah, we've been podcasting for almost a year. So we recently did speech with the collective, which was really fun and different, because we got to connect with a lot of you guys. I think there was like 150 people there. I don't know. But to talk in front of a group was really fun for us.

It really got our adrenaline going. And it's something that we definitely want to explore more. I think we're going to try to really do the live podcast thing soon. I want to tell kind of an interesting story. I'll take it down a notch. Being a little bit more somber. Okay, Michael. Get everybody in the mood.

I'm just kidding. So we did give a speech, and it turns out that outside of speaking internally, in internal meetings, or with family and friends, or at my wedding or whatever. Our wedding. Our wedding. It was the first time I've ever actually given a speech like that or spoken in front of a large group of people. And it's funny because two, three years ago, if you would have asked me if I could have done that, I would have been mortified. I'm going to show a little bit of vulnerability here.

I'd have been really scared. I used to have these flashbacks of like, oh my God, what if I have to speak at someone's wedding? What if I have to speak at a funeral? I know that's really morbid. What if I have to like give a presentation and I'm like up there and I'm shaking and I'm nervous? And like I really have all the things I've done in my life and all the chances I've taken and, you know, confrontations and this and that. For some reason, speaking in front of people really scared me. And I think it scares a lot of people. I know you don't really identify with that. because you were just like born with a mic in your hand and ready to like hit the stage. But for a lot of us, it's really, really nerve-wracking.

And I never thought that I would be able to do it. So anyways, I did the speech and I wasn't nervous at all. And I thought I did a pretty decent job for never doing it and having no experience doing it. I think that it went well. But the observations I made about it. So you think you're really great. No, I don't think I'm really great. I just think that what was in my head about like, oh, I'm never really good.

be able to do this and like it's so nerve wracking. As soon as I got up there, it was just like how I'm talking right now. But I think the things interestingly enough that have helped me, you don't stop speaking now. Yes, is Snapchat and doing this podcast. So it's just an interesting observation. So I guess the value proposition here that I would give to people is it's not as scary as you think. And practice makes perfect. And I guess in this scenario, the practice I've gotten is speaking with you. Okay. Well, when I was little, I used to push my sister off the home video camera. and use a fork as my mic, so no, I can't relate. Kevin's laughing.

What's so funny in there as you eat your cupcake? I can just sew picture you, like, hamming it up. Oh, yeah, I used to, like, throw my sister out of the way and be like, this is my stage and do a tap dance. I was like the WB frog. I expected a spoon, but hey, a fork. A spoon, fork, whatever. I used to brush my hair with a fork.

I want to do the aerial. The things that you don't think are a big deal sometimes, and this is deploying empathy, which we're going to work on here, it may be a big deal to some other people. So what I'm saying is, you know... I'm proud of you, honey. If you're out there and you're nervous about any of these kind of things, get out there, get some practice, be confident to try it out.

It's not as scary as you think it is. All right, you guys, before we get into the interview with Jordan, we want to ask you to do a quick survey. So all you have to do is go to www. podcast1.com slash my survey and click on the survey banner. Super quick, super easy. The responses will help us bring you the ads that you guys want to hear, so it'll be none of that fluffer stuff. Thank you so much for supporting the skinny confidential him and her and taking the time to complete the survey.

Okay, well, on that note, we are going to take a break and we're going to come back with Jordan Younger of the balanced blonde, who is an incredible human being. This is the skinny confidential, him and her. Okay, you guys. So today we are with Jordan Younger. Super excited to have her on. She's a friend. She's an amazing blogger, author, influencer, yoga teacher, and podcaster. Hi.

Hi. I'm so happy to be here. I know. I feel like we should have had you on a while ago. Welcome to the show. So happy to be here. As you guys know, I do listen every week, which I definitely cannot say about pretty much any other podcast.

So this is exciting. That's very exciting that you listen. That's a huge compliment. So I just want to hop right into it because we have a lot of questions for you. we're going to go deep. Cool. So the first question is, I know about the balanced blonde, and we'll get into that. But tell me about Jordan Younger.

That's such a good question. People don't ask me that that much, but people who listen to my podcast have started to ask, like, we know all about your business. We know about your blog. But who are you? Like, who is the person behind all that? Which I think you guys will totally understand the blog is me. So, of course, there's elements of me that.

that are totally separate from the balanced blonde, but who am I? I mean, I'm from Sacramento. I moved to L.A. like eight years ago, lived in New York for a little while, been back here for a couple years. I have my cat, Hudson, who you guys met this morning. He didn't give me allergies. I know. That's so amazing.

It actually is. Yeah. So the person that I'm dating right now, who I just started dating one of my best friends, which is really fun, he's super allergic to Hudson, which is huge buzzkill. It's like the saddest thing ever, so we've got to figure that out. Get him some Claritin. Claritin D for sure. So glad that you're not allergic.

But yeah, I recently started teaching yoga. It's been really fun to add this totally different element into my life. But it's changed my routine a lot because I've been teaching at night and working all day and then teaching at night kind of leaves me with no time whatsoever. And that's kind of for yourself, right? I feel like the yoga is, I mean, it's an extension of it. your brand, but it's also for yourself. It's for nothing else. It's, I mean, I'm definitely not trying to make a career out of teaching yoga other than fusing it with what I already do. But, yeah, teaching classes at night is just totally for my soul. It's so much fun. And I feel like, yeah,

I feel like my brand has just taken a shift over the last like six months. I think you mentioned that you kind of noticed it, which is cool. But I just got re-inspired by yoga and podcasting and just kind of life. So, yeah, that's kind of, I mean, of course, now here I am talking about my brand again when I'm supposed to be talking about myself. No, it's true, because our brand's a part of a life. Yeah. Well, it's because you have a personal brand, so it's like a kind of intermingles. Obviously, it's about your life. So it's hard to get away from one or the other. You know, it's all the same thing, which obviously Lauren is familiar with. You got to embrace it. Yeah, you really have to. It's all you have to do. Okay, so you were the blonde vegan. Now you've transitioned into the balanced

blonde. And I feel like when I think of you, I think of you as the balanced blonde blonde. Tell us about the blonde vegan, because I feel like that is a substantial part of you still, I would think. Yeah. The blonde vegan was my first brand, my first blog. I was right out of college, started the blonde vegan Instagram, which turned into a blog and quickly turned into a full-time job because I was just so excited about it. I couldn't do anything but work on the blog. I was just having so much fun with it. So when I personally decided to stop being vegan for health reasons and for basically just like for my sanity of mind and for my body, it was so hard to let go of the blonde vegan. Because, you know, if somebody asked you today to let go of the skinny confidential and

name your blog something else, you'd be like, what? That's everything. Like that's what I created. That's my baby. So I had a lot of trouble letting go of the blonde vegan and the acronym that went with it, TBV, which is why I kept the acronym from my clothing line for three more years, which was so funny because it ended up being just irrelevant, basically, to the balanced blind, because it wasn't TBB and people got confused. So that'll always be a part of who I am because that was my first blog that I started building my audience with. And contrary to what some people think, it's the same blog. I didn't like shut it down and start something new. I just changed the domain. So if you type in the blondevegan.com,

it'll take you to my blog. So nothing got shut down. Did the vegan community stand outside with pitchforks? One hundred and fifty thousand. Ready to burn you down like a witch? 150%. It was, it was scary. It was super controversial. It was so much more controversial than I thought it would be because I knew it would be controversial. I had been vegan for years. So I was pretty accustomed to the vegan life, the way that people kind of just make veganism like their whole life. It can be sort of like a religion to some people, just this really passionate community. But I didn't think it would get so personal. I didn't think people who I had met in the vegan community, in the vegan blogging community, and YouTube communities would just disown me as if we were, we had never talked or as if we were never friends through the internet.

are in real life. So it was very scary. Got tons of death threats, got, there are, it's just ridiculous. It's interesting death threats coming from the vegan community because they're, they kind of like go against the whole, they're kind of about the whole like other thing, right? Well, you know, like don't kill and don't eat, but then they're willing to sacrifice their own. One of my points, for sure. It's like, humans are animals. Like, you, you, or if you're going to be so mean to a human and make them suffer and, like, make them scared for their life, what is, What kind of compassionate lifestyle is that? Yeah, where is the compassion?

I'm going to get a lot of shit for this, huh? No. Don't worry. I walk around with Taylor behind me, and he's got, like, a giant stick now with a camera. Taylor has a cucumber, so Taylor's still vegan. If you want to be smacked down angry vegans with a giant camera stick, Taylor's got me back. Taylor's actually looking like Quasimoto today, because all he does is just look down in his camera with his earphones.

He's in the corner filming. We did Jordan's podcast. Which you guys have to check out. Solon Fire. It's on iTunes, right? Okay. And Taylor was informed that he's a very loud mouth breather. He was.

Christina, Christina told him what's up for sure. Christina from actually adultish, works with Jordan, and she told Taylor, you are a really big mouth breather. Super creepy. It was hilarious.

Christina told him how it is for sure. Okay, so sorry, we just got off track there, but I was just thinking about angry vegans. Okay, so now you're the balanced font. So what is your mission from here on out? And before we get into that, I just want to say that I really appreciate that you've been able to transition in front of the internet. I think that's incredible.

I think it's difficult and I think it takes balls. So I actually like, I'm giving you props. Thank you. So tell me about the balanced blonde. So the balanced bond is, it's totally different from the blonde vegan because the blonde vegan was basically, it was a lifestyle blog because I wasn't really capable of sharing my life without sharing also my lifestyle because that's just how I am. That's how I write, very similar to you. But it was a recipe focused blog. And it was, of course, a vegan recipe focus blog.

So once I shed that label, it was crazy that I had this platform, the balance, wanted to share whatever I wanted. And sort of like we touched on this morning when we were talking, I tried everything. I was like, oh, do I want to do fashion? Do I want to do this? Do I want to do that? And it took me a couple years, honestly, to really find my place

where I'm super comfortable sharing, like, wellness and fitness and yoga. and lifestyle and of course so many different things, but you can't do everything. I think that that's something that you guys talk a lot about, which I really appreciate in terms of just like branding yourself and business, because if you try to, you can't be everything. Like, nobody even wants to go to a blog that represents everything. So I would say the balance blonde really just focuses on trying to help people find their most authentic, happiest life through healthy food, healthy lifestyle, fitness, and just

being true to yourself and doing what you're passionate about. So over the last several years, just kind of taking this career path that's really alternative and different that I'm so passionate about. I want to share with people you can do that too. You don't have to just sit at a desk all day doing something you hate. So the blog actually talks a lot about that now, which is totally different from how it started. What's interesting, though, is that you were able to, because a lot of the time, we did this talk last time, we were talking about personal branding. And I used an example because I was just sitting there and I was trying to give this some context. and I looked over and saw the salad bar, which, right, that's kind of weird.

But I said, if I came out with a brand and said the number one salad guy, like that's my blog, it's very difficult then to later translate and say, hey, I'm going to talk about branding, right? Because everyone's going to say, what the fuck is the salad guy doing talking about branding? Exactly. So it's interesting that you were actually able to make that transition because not a lot of people can do that. A lot of people get stuck. They pigeonhole themselves. They say, I'm the person that travels and something.

Southeast Asia, and all of a sudden they want to talk about fashion. You're like, get back to travel. So it's cool that you're able to make that transition. But I think people should keep that in mind when they're building their personal brand. Be careful not to pigeonhole yourself into something that you can't move out of. I think that you starting from where you are to coming here is inspiring. I think it's really, really cool. And again, you've gone through it in front of the internet, which can be really overwhelming. But at the same time, and we talked about this on your podcast earlier, have also been super supportive. Exactly.

So that's been helpful because there was all the controversy and negativity. And I was getting like tens of thousands of hate emails per day. So you can imagine. Like imagine your inbox as it already is. It's pretty crazy. Tens of thousands of hate emails. So that was crazy. I obviously didn't look through all them.

I never could. There was no way that I could. But there was also probably that, but double of positive messages from people. all over the whole entire world who were so grateful that I was sharing about orthorexia and my journey because people had never heard of orthorexia. I had never heard of it before I googled it and realized this is what I have. It's an obsession with health and wellness. I'm kind of triggered by labeling my diet and just eating only vegetables for so many years, which is just not healthy. So lots of positivity

from people, people all over the board, people who supported living a balanced label for life, but also people who were suffering, too, who didn't know that they were suffering until I started speaking about it publicly, and then other people did too. Okay, so before we talk to Jordan about New York, I want to talk to you guys about our favorite office bars. RX bars. RX bars are legit. I have been taking down the chocolate sea salts.

We know you're obsessed with that one. My favorite is still the peanut butter, but I'm kind of. of having a coconut chocolate moment because I found that if you take a bowl of raspberries and mash them up and eat them with the coconut chocolate bar, it's like kind of the best dessert on the planet. So that's my second favorite. And I was wondering who is eating those because I've actually been hiding them in the back of the cabinet because I like that one in the sea salt. And the other day I went and all the sea salts were gone. Thank you, Taylor. And now I found out that my second favorite, the chocolate coconut you are taking for your raspberry concoction, whatever the hell that is.

Yeah, we're really, really into these bars. There's no BS ingredients. It's all natural. It's gluten-free. It's legit. So whenever you go to the store and there's 6 million bars and you don't know which one to get, make sure you get RX bar. I am a huge advocate of looking at ingredients.

So I definitely stand behind these bars because their ingredients are legit. Perfect for an on-the-go breakfast. You can shove it in your handbag, pre-post workout fuel, or a midday snack. the office. You guys will love. New customers can get 15% off with free shipping and free returns by going to RXbar.com slash the skinny. Seriously, you guys, RXBars is our new favorite find. They are convenient, efficient, clean ingredients, and they're amazing. Go to RXBar.com slash the skinny. And stay away from my coconut chocolates. I read your book and I actually read it in a day and a half. You guys should, I 100% recommend it. And I'm not just saying that because you're here.

I really read, I sat down one day and I read it like for the entire Sunday into Monday. It's so good. You feel like you're actually having a conversation with you. I, when I was reading it though, I felt like you were living in New York at the time and now you're in L.A. I felt like almost, even though there's so many people in New York, you almost in a way felt isolated in New York. Yeah. It was such a different life than I live now. It's true.

Well, I isolated myself because I couldn't do anything. I was always juice cleansing doing 30-day juice cleanses. I lived with my best friend. I was in grad school with tons of people who became like lifelong friends. But I was still isolating myself. Like I couldn't do the fun things people do in New York, going to all the fun restaurants. And even I didn't really go out and drink because I was way too health conscious for that.

And I liked to wake up early and go to yoga. And this was all on juice cleansing. So I was like doing half marathons on juice cleanses. And that doesn't leave a lot of things. lot of room for life and listening to your body and being healthy and having fun. So I definitely was isolated, even if it was just in my own way, because people who knew me wouldn't have thought that. I put out such positivity and was always, especially on the blog, but also just in real life,

like, I'm so happy about my life. That was kind of my whole shtick until I realized that's just not true. Like you can change and evolve and actually find happiness. if you listen to yourself and if you also surround yourself with just supportive awesome people, which I wasn't really letting them in because people were worried about me. And so I was just kind of pushing them, pushing them away. A juice cleanse for 30 days. Yeah.

I forgot that you wrote about that in the book. I just remembered that when you said that. That would just die on day three. How do you do that? Like what's your, like what is your mindset? I honestly can say I could not do that right now. Yeah. I could never, ever do it again.

And I've learned. I think when you do something like that, my nutritionist has actually taught me. Your nutritionist is Be Well. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Kelly. So she's one of my best friends. She has, she has took, because I've told her now, like I feel like I just don't have that kind of willpower anymore. Not that I want to, because that kind of willpower is just insane. But she told me that I actually, like, maxed out the bandwidth for that type of thing, which you can do.

So, like, my adrenals, all of my, everything inside of my body, it could actually never do that again because I just pushed myself to the limit. So it was just a crazy amount of like willpower. Plus I believed wholeheartedly what the raw vegan community was telling me, which was that this is the only way to be healthy. Even eating cooked vegan food isn't healthy, raw vegan food no longer healthy, you have to juice. So I followed like a couple of these just really vocal raw vegan activists. And I was never in it for the ethical reasons alone. This was health reasons that I was doing it. So Pete, when they told me this is the best way to be healthy and like you'll improve your athletic performance, everything will fall into place for you. I was like, sweet, I'll do it.

Do you feel better? You would be a hypoglycemic mess. I would turn into like Tom Hanks, you know when he gets left on the island in Castaway and he starts talking to Wilson, the volleyball? If I did a juice claim for more than three days, that would be me. I'd have a like long, scraggly beard. If you go for two hours and you turn into Tom Hanks and castaway. I'd be knocking my teeth out with an ice skate and just having a really big. really terrible time.

I just, I can't, like, when you're on day 25, are you just into it, your head's in the game, and you're just not even noticing you're on it anymore? Yes, I was so addicted to the feeling of, like, emptiness, kind of, like, emptiness in my stomach. I've also had stomach problems my whole life, as you know from the book, so, like, horrible stomach problems, food allergies, and I've learned how to deal with that, so I don't eat those foods anymore, but since I was dealing with all that as a vegan, because all I was doing was eating vegetables, which was like upsetting my stomach and making me feel just not,

not right. I loved the empty feeling. It was like weightlessness to me. I felt like I, I just thrived off of it. I thrived off of people telling me you're so tiny, you look so great. It was like my addiction. So after day 30, I told my best friend, Katie, who I lived with, I'm going to extend this. I'm going to keep going. And she was like, no, you're finally about to get your life back. Like we can go out to dinner. We have like family and friends visiting. You can't keep doing this. And I was like, yes, I can. I won't bother anybody else. Just like slit my juice in my purse. Nobody will even have to know. It was an addiction. It was pretty crazy. That's nuts. So when you start incorporating meats and fish into your diet, do you feel incredible now? Or is it still kind of like this thing where you're

like, uh, I do feel incredible now. So it's been it'll, it's been two and a half almost three years. So the beginning was kind of, it was challenging to reintroduce foods. I didn't know how to do it. I remember just like constantly telling people, I don't know what a meal is supposed to be like because they haven't eaten one in so long. And I just, I don't know like what normal people eat because everything to me felt like overeating, especially if you're eating animal protein, which I hadn't had in so long. So I would like call my mom. I'd be walking down the street in New York like, what is a normal meal? because I don't know. Like, do I have, like, scrambled eggs and how, when do you eat again after that?

And because you just, I disconnected for so long from the internal cues. Like, your body tells you when you're hungry. You pretty much know when you're full. Like, I've reconnected to that over the last three years with tons of work, tons of effort, tons of specialists in my life as well. Medication, supplements, absolutely everything. So at the time, I mean, my body, was so happy to have vitamin B 12 back in my body and iron and calcium and all these things that

I was so deficient in. So right away, eating eggs and salmon became like awesome. Like I loved it. I had them every single day and then I got on to like a burger cake and I had beef every single day. And three years later, I've evened it back out. Yeah, exactly. You love the routine. Yeah. You love the routine of it. 100%. So if someone's out there and they're struggling with some kind of, would you call this is an eating disorder? Yeah. Okay, so if they're struggling with an eating disorder, what do they do? What's some steps that they can do to be proactive in making a change? I think the first step is once you admit to yourself that you have a problem, because that's the hardest thing to do, because it is an addiction and it's, you just feel like so strong with so much willpower and you

thrive off of all the different things that come along with it. Once you admit to yourself that you have an eating disorder and realize that life can be so much better if food isn't causing you so much negativity and anxiety every single day, the first thing I recommend doing is getting help, getting professional help. So talking to your family, kind of figuring out a plan, finding a therapist who specializes in eating disorders and a nutritionist who specializes in eating disorders. If you can do both, if not, definitely one or the other, because there's the emotional elements and there's also the physical elements. So I did both of those things. things for like three months, which probably wasn't long enough. But then I moved back to L.A.

and I kind of just had this sense that I wanted to do it on my own, which I did. And I mean, go in and out of both, kind of. So I think getting professional help is important, something that people don't talk about enough with eating disorders because there's just a lot of stuff that needs to be worked out after when you're recovering from something like that. And then honestly, for me, having the platform to blog about it, I think I was so lucky. It's therapeutic. It's therapeutic and I didn't feel alone because thousands, like I said, of people were telling me that they were in the same boat at the same time. So I was lucky it was like a support group almost. Totally. And I think that you're writing your next book right now or you've wrote it? Just written it. Just starting to write it.

You're just starting to write it. This is your second? Yes. Okay. So tell us about the process of this through everything you've gone through. You're writing, I mean, writing a book is a huge. undertaking. Yeah, it's a huge undertaking, as you know, and your book is beautiful. I have so many copies of your book because they're so aesthetically beautiful. I love it. So is yours. Thank you. So writing a book,

I mean, I love to write. That's like my bread and butter. That's why I started a blog. Writing a book is very hard, and I'm just always so honest about that with people. There's nothing easy about it. There's nothing easy about even finding routine. Yeah, tell me, like, what's your habit?

Give us some tips. I think, so the habit, hopefully, this time around for book two, since I'm just about to start it, is hopefully going to be a lot different than habits for book number one, because that was all over the place. It was like, thank God I finished by my deadline, which I didn't. I extended my deadline by like three months. So did I? Yeah, it was crazy. So this time I'm hoping. So like my big thing for this year and moving forward is to just carve out a lot more time for the things that really matter to me.

So writing this book is one of those things. So I'm hoping and trying, and Christina actually will be so much better about this than me, to just leave, like, full days open on my calendar every single week, every single week, like two full days at least to write. Because writing, just because, like, you want to sit down and write, it doesn't mean that it's going to happen. I heard it's two pages a day. Oh, yeah. If you need two pages a day. So some people say that, but I actually like to write like 10,000 words at once, which is I'm not sure how many pages.

pages. When the inspo flows. I've also heard that writing on airplanes, like, I know. Yes, the best. There's a guy named Dan Norris. I like his books. He did a content machine and I think the seven-day startup. He says that he's written like 90% of his books on airplanes.

Yes. Airplanes are great. Actually, my literary agent would tell you that that's what I do because I will like go dark on her for like weeks, not on purpose, but it's like I just can't produce content. There's too much other stuff going on. And then I'll get on an airplane for like five hours bang out 20,000 words. And she'll be like, where have you been this whole time? Like if you have this in you, why aren't you doing it?

And I think on an airplane, it's nice because you're finally disconnected. So I think for me, it's about finding that time where I'm disconnected wherever I am. So like in my own home, turning off my phone, just trying to like make the actual time to make it happen. And I hope to write it within like a six month period because I think if it's, takes me too long. Like, I'll want to start the whole thing all over because it's just, it's like a snippet in time type of memoir. So I could edit it forever, but I don't think that that's worth doing. I think that finishing something is so much more important than trying to make something perfect. So we'll see. I totally agree. I want to write a book so I can also be. He should. He wants to

be a part of the book club. We can be three authors at the table. Okay. Now would be. I actually got a request this morning to write a book. Okay. You should write a book on business. That was your sister. I was going to write a book that kind of had to do with business, but more about some other things. No, he wants to write a book like basically, say it. Well, you want to write a book out. No, I just think a lot of people are in their own way, and I kind of want to write a book about how people need to get out of their way. And I'm not saying, you know, me or you or anybody. I'm just saying the general public as a consensus, and that's me included. A lot of the times we're in our own way. And I think it's for, if I can be like just dumb it down and say for stupid

reasons. So I want to write a book that's like a high-level book, but also fun and easy and quick to read about getting out of our own way. Okay, well, you can take tips from Jordan when you need to do that. Maybe there's a literary agent that can come and find me. Is anyone out there? Oh, there's for sure somebody. Maybe I'll self-publish this. This isn't your interview. I'll say my life being followed by a loud mouth breather. Yeah. Featuring Taylor O'Connor. You need to do it. Okay, so you and I were in Seattle working on a collaboration for Eddie Bauer, which was super fun, but I was extremely swollen from jaw surgery and was in, looking back, like, I probably shouldn't have been there.

And we were talking about how it's interesting and difficult to kind of network in L.A. You live in L.A. I live in San Diego. You're blonde. You're beautiful. You're a blogger. How do you balance that networking part? Because I find it very difficult. I'm so glad you're asking me this question because I started thinking about this.

One reason why I appreciate you so much, both of you, is because you're genuine and it's not, like, all of our interaction has not been networking. And I'm putting networky in quotes because it's like a word that I've made up because when people are just so networky, it's like, hey, here's my business car. You call it ladder climbers. Yeah. Well, I see it from a mile away and it drives me crazy. So it's kind of hard for me to network here in L.A. Because I just don't like it. I like to genuinely meet people.

And I've actually gotten better about this because I hated it so much for a while. The whole like network lifestyle that Los Angeles can be, especially with bloggers and bloggers being competitive with each other and like looking at all the numbers and the followers. And it would just drive me crazy. I've gotten better lately because for a while I just like closed my door. I was like, I'm just going to hang out with the people I already know. I don't want that life. But I've had a lot of fun lately, actually, like, meeting new people in the industry and giving people a chance because I don't know why I was so closed off to it. I think it was just too many bad experiences at once.

So I think there's just a balance, like you said. I just, I have a pretty strong intuition. So if my gut is telling me that somebody's going to use me or not even just use me, but if they're just, if they seem like, the type of energy that's not going to mesh well with me. Bad intentions. I'm just going to say that. Jinks. It's like with networking that the reason people run into trouble with networking is because

they go into it with the approach of, okay, if I meet this person, this person can do this and this for me. And whenever you go into, you know, any kind of, any kind of situation, whether it's a business, whether you're getting in a relationship with somebody, it's a friendship, and you have the intention of how can this person help me, you're setting yourself up for failure. So what I try to do and what I try to caution my friends to do and with Lauren is to go into it the other way. Like what can I do for somebody else?

How can I develop a relationship? Once that's done, the other stuff will come. But it comes with the intention of helping them, not the other way around. Yeah, I like that. That's really helpful. It's true. So for me, I kind of just try to focus on just surrounding myself with people who I see their intentions as genuine, which is exactly what you're saying. That's a super genuine approach to meeting somebody.

But yeah, I do have a hard time with it just because I don't really, I don't think I'm like the typical blogger in that way. And I don't think you are either. That's a really good thing. Yeah, exactly. No, it's such a good thing. And I don't think it's just quality over quantity when it comes to that kind of thing. And I've met so many great people and you can see them from a mile away. Like Jerry Hirsch, who was on that trip with us.

I love her. She's just genuine and it's obvious. But a lot of people aren't. So just kind of having like a wall, not a wall. That makes me sound really closed off. But like having a filter for who you really let in. A boundary. Okay, you guys, one of the realist blog post Jordan has ever written is on buying Instagram followers.

But before we get into what motivated her to write that, let's talk about one of my new faves, Spring. Okay, if you guys follow along on Instagram, you know I'm having a major red moment. And that is completely because of the site, Spring. So I basically went on to this online site. It's called Spring and found all these amazing Adidas pieces like a red sweater. It's like this huge oversized hoodie. I'm obsessed. You've probably seen it on Snap.

I also found like a red Adidas tea with little dots on it. And then my all-time fave, which is a red t-shirt with white stripes down the side. And I found it all on spring. I also actually have found some cute guy clothes on there that I want to wear as girl clothes. Yeah. you're taking my Adida sweatshirts. Yeah, I'm stealing his Adidas sweatshirts. They're all from Spring.

They're oversized, huge hood. You will love. They also have other brands like Smashbox and Tori Burch and Mark Jacobs and Stuart Wiseman, Vince, Urban Outfitters, and so many more. I'm really, really into Springs Urban Outfitters section because they have these glasses on there. They're like 899, and they look exactly like the ones that Kendall Jenner has been wearing. I just bought those two. Download the Spring app in the app store or go to ShopSpring.com to start saving on all the latest fashion and lifestyle trends.

Get free shipping and free returns on your spring purchases with no spending minimums. As an added bonus, use our code Skinny at checkout to take 20% off your first purchase. Be sure to get the red sweater. See the website for more details. That's shopspring.com or shop through the spring app and use code Skinny. You wrote a blog post on people buying Instagram followers. Yes. And it was one of the realest blog posts I've ever seen you write.

I definitely read your blog. So tell me about that. Like how does that come up? Like what were you seeing in the industry where you felt like you needed to write that? I mean, first of all, I wrote it because I was seeing it so much. And I was also seeing the confusion of the followers and the readers so much by it. And half the reason why I wrote it, to be honest, is because people, brands and readers alike have asked me, you have all these followers, why don't you get like

double the engagement? And I just wanted to say, you know, like, it's not about that to me. I know that people, I know that people are following me and that they're interested and that they're engaged because I talk to them all day every day. Like I make it my business to interact with them and I have fun with that. So I just started getting really bothered by the whole notion that it's all about the numbers because I don't think it is all about the numbers. I think that definitely helps you reach a certain level. But it's, I think people just get tripped up with the numbers. So, and I just don't, I don't like the lying when people lie.

And like, I've seen it so much. So it just drives me nuts. So I wrote it mainly for that reason. And I have to say it was one of my most popular blog posts ever. Because I think when you Google, like, buying Instagram likes, I'm pretty sure that one pops up. So I hear from people every day. It's a smart SEO strategy.

Yeah. And I didn't even really do that on purpose. But I hear from, I hear from people saying crazy stuff too about it. It's a width and depth game. Depth meaning like engagement, width meaning the macro number, which, you know, I think as we progress, people are going to recognize that that macro, while it's, you know, it's an indicator and it's important, it's not the end-all be all. I worked with, I was consulting with a girl in the past.

I won't say who. She had a jewelry line. And she was going to put her jewelry on one of these Instagram models. and the girl had like 1.2 million followers. There's a lot. And she said, I'm going to pay to promote this jewelry to this person because they have 1.2 million followers. And I said, you've got to be careful because, and this is not to say anything bad about Instagram models, but this audience that this woman has may not be the jewelry buying audience.

It may be pervy guys like Taylor that want to see somebody. Taylor, you follow her, I feel like. They want to see somebody in a skimpy bathing suit. And so when you go to get conversions later, you may not get them. Lo and behold, they paid, I think they sold two pieces of jewelry. So two out of $1.2 million is a terrible conversion. So I think people need to really consider, you know, not just width, which would be the macro number, but depth, which is engagement. And I think it's obvious when people have genuine engagement.

Like if you look at any of your photos, Lauren, for example, so many comments of people who are so highly engaged and interested in your life. It's like every time I look, and I like to look. I like to scroll through them and see what people say. But they're like, oh my God, I loved the Snapchat with Michael and this and that. And like, show us more from the wedding and everything. Like, people just die over all that stuff with you guys. And I do, I have that too in a certain way or especially depending on my photo. And you know you have to work at it.

Like, it's not. Yeah, it doesn't come naturally. Lauren's head's floating away. Do we have something to tie it down? Oh, my God. Keep going. Just kidding. It's true.

It's just amazing. And so you can tell when it's genuine. And if I rewrote the post that I wrote now, that one, because like you're saying, it was like a super real post. And in ways, it was sort of like angry. I was angry about it. No, I didn't feel angry. I just felt like you were being like, you're calling like the industry out.

Sometimes we need, like the whole industry needs to be checked, I think. For sure, 100%. But if I rewrote it now, I would say if you want to, because I gave people tips and not blog post for finding, um, finding out if the people that they follow. have like fake followers and I loved giving those tips. I would also give tips now for saying here's how to find a genuine. Like if you want to see if the engagement is real, like just just take a look at like some of these accounts and see what people are saying. You have to do a yinging post. Yeah. Yeah. You got to do it. Okay. So this is a question that a lot of people would definitely

ask if they were sitting with you. Someone's starting out in our industry in 2017. Where do they start? Because it's totally different than when you and I started out. Yeah, that's an amazing question. I've seen this a bit because I started. I helped my mom start a fashion blog. I love. Wait, shout her out. You got to shut her out.

Dirty martinis and skinny jeans. Love her. It's amazing. And so this has been like dipping my toes into. Taylor's following her right now. Oh my God, yes. Please do. He's like, no, you should.

Dipping my toes into starting a blog in 2017 because I've obviously. helping her. She doesn't know how to use WordPress quite yet, so I'm doing a lot of it with her. And it's such a different tactic. So one of the things that I've noticed is back when we started, you could grow on social media thousands of followers in a week. I mean, maybe a thousand a week, maybe more, especially if like a big account you collaborated with, you could get 10,000 followers overnight. For instance, if Forever 21 Instagrammed you five years ago, you're going to get thousands of followers, whereas if they Instagrammed me now, I'd probably literally, probably get 50. Yeah, at the most.

At the most. And I've totally, totally seen that happen. So starting a blog in 2017, I think it's less about seeing the fast climb of social media numbers and a little bit more about quality content and finding different ways to really let people into your life. So the stuff that we've been talking about today, like live streaming and podcasting and Snapchatting and YouTube, even though you. YouTube can be a lot of work depending on what your goals are.

I think the more that you can share with people, the better in having a mix of high quality content and also just in the moment kind of content. And then just being who you are. So the authenticity just shines through always. So with my mom's blog, which we just started, we were doing like all fashion photos because it's a fashion blog. But I started seeing on Instagram that was looking very cluttered and I'm very like OCD. So we kind of decided to make it more life.

style and it's actually been doing better. Like, people like to see, oh, what do you have for breakfast? I was just going to say, I want to see what your mom's making for dinner. Exactly. That kind of stuff and traveling and like her relationship with my dad and being a grandma. Like, that's cool stuff. Yeah, document, exactly. I'm like literally, I think the theme for the next five years is document.

Stop creating. Stop making everything curated. Document. Yeah. People want to see behind the scenes. They just do. And I don't care if you're from Europe. or you're from the United States or wherever you're from.

Everyone wants to see the same thing, right? Yeah. I mean, what do you guys want to see when you watch something? I want to see someone's real true. Well, humans by nature are very boeristic. So here's the thing. Everything you just said is 100% right. And also everything you said about that applied to the past as well.

It's just, you know, the space now is a little bit more saturated. So all the things that were easier to do in the past and easier to accumulate these following, people are savvy enough now to say, okay, like, I have options now, right? Where before, when you're starting, there's not as many options. So it's more difficult, but it's still like creating compelling content, being authentic. All these things you're talking about, it still applies. But the difference is now where people may not have understood curated content in the past because it was a new medium.

People understand now, like, okay, this is being curated. I get I'm being served something, at least a lot of the time. And so now they're into the more raw and documented and more authentic behind. the scenes things. But it's only because the market's been saturated and they've seen something before. Like, it's the same thing why people got into TV, why from there they got into social media, why Snapchat. It's just going to continue to evolve. Yeah, I think your mom should get on Snapchat. I know. I'm trying to get her on there. She has one. She doesn't, she doesn't really know how to use it. But at least Instagram story to show people, because my parents travel, like,

they do really cool stuff that I think is, like, just as interesting as her outfit posts, if not more. They sound like incredible people from your book, too. Yeah. You can see that. Both of them. Totally. Okay, so this is my last question. So you and I talked about this in Seattle.

We were on the trip. How do you remain authentic to the balance spawn when big, huge, incredible brands come to you and want to collaborate? Because you and I have had a long conversation about this. In fact, I feel like we were on a ferry. We were in a car? Both, probably, because there was the long car ride and then the ferry. and they probably just talked the whole time. Yeah, we just talked about how there's like this give and take that these brands are coming to us as the creator.

So we have to be given the freedom to create. And if they can't give us that, it's almost just not worth it. 100%. Well, it's funny because I always think back to that conversation we had because I remember we were both stressed, but you were really stressed because you had three blog posts due by midnight and it was like 9 p.m. and we were still at dinner and there was just no way to really balance that out. Yeah, and I've been in that position similarly, and I always think about you because I think if she could do three blog posts and make that happen, I can like figure this out too.

It was four. Oh, yeah, it was four. Remember that, Michael? I wanted to rip your head off. It was horrible. So I always think about that because that kind of came at the tail end of the conversation we were having already about how sometimes big brands can take advantage because they don't understand that a blogger is literally just one person.

But even if you have a team, you get bullied. And I think people just expect something that is not going to happen because if you're, if you're having a blogger promote a product for you, they're going to talk about it in their own voice. That's why people follow their blog. So a lot of brands, they'll send me all these talking points to the point where it's a total script or like a written script. And it's so inauthentic and I'll have to go back and forth with them and say that can't

happen or for example i'm doing like a swimwear thing and they wanted me to get in this 30 degree pool last week and things like that where i'm like i can't that's well first of all that's not happening but i can do it in my own way you have to say no yeah so learning to say no so actually yeah that brings me to like probably the best advice i could give to to any blogger or any person is to learn how to say no and stand up for yourself so i basically say no to people all the time where i'm such a people pleaser. So this was so hard for me, especially like working with management and working with brands and just tons of different great opportunities. It's hard to say no and compromise maybe what people might think of you or I just put myself in the position where it's like I don't really

care if people think that I'm going to be a diva right now because I know that I'm not. And it's just true. It's like, no, you can't push me around. No, I literally can't do that because I'm going to be gone next week, things like that. Saying no. Yeah. No. So, like, Let me just loop it back around for anyone that's a new blogger. What would you recommend how to reach out to a brand that they want to work with? I've given my own answer, but I'm actually curious of what your answer to this is. Yeah, I'm curious about yours too. I'll have to find out from you.

But I think, I mean, I think that's such a fun part of being a new blogger is like putting together the list of brands that you want to work with, even if it seems like it'll be years before you have the chance to work with some of your dream brands. But I think just reaching out and finding the contact info for the marketing department or sometimes they have a collaboration department because social media collaborations are huge for brands these days. Reaching out and just being really personable and to the point and just to the point. Yeah. Oh my gosh. If you send a novel, it won't be read.

People don't have time. Three sentences. Yeah. Hey, I'm Jordan, the balance bond link to the blog. Attached is my press kit. Yeah, attach is my press kit. I love your brain. brand would love to work with you. And if it's a brand that you really want to work with and just

get on your site, then say, I would love to do this for free and just send me product. And then we can maybe talk about partnering in the future. 100%. Keep it quick to the point. You know why that's smart? And we talked about this when we're speaking at the collective conference. The last part of what you said was the smartest part. When you say, I will do this for free and post it. And if in the future you like this, come back. Because a lot of people, they don't give a value proposition to begin with, both on the influencer side and the brand side. It's like, hey, do this for me and like, you do this for me. And the brand or the influence is like, no, like, why do I need you? But if you give somebody value without asking for anything in return up front, they're going to be more inclined to help you in the future.

So it's like, it's playing the long game. It's a smart strategy. I see so many people say, how do I get this brand to pay me right now? Well, it's like, well, you don't have the audience yet. And a brand's not just going to give you money for no reason. Do something. Give them some value. show them what you can do, and then in the future, it'll pay dividends. And by the way, the kind of person Michael's talking about, that's 99% of people. If you and I looked at our inbox right now, like 99% is what can you do for me? And let me tell you, now that I'm six years into this business, I have no fucking tolerance for that. If it's a mutual, beneficial thing or they're just sending product to see if I like it,

I'm happy to give. But what, it really turns me off. And I'm sure that you can agree with this is when someone wants, wants, wants, wants, wants. There's a second part to it, too. Oh, is there? It's, it, you don't just give and give and give and give and then ask and deserve something. You can give and give and give and then ask. And if you get a no, then you get a no.

You're not entitled to a yes. But the give, give, give, give and then ask puts you in a better position than just the ask. Yeah. 100%. And that's, I think that's a good way to do it because that's kind of what I do. at this point, like if I really enjoy working with a brand and I really enjoy working with the people who represent the brand, I will give a lot. Like, I also, I have certain standards and I know what my audience reaches. So it's not like I'm necessarily doing that stuff for free, but like I will give

so much above and beyond time and energy for the rate that they're giving me. And I'll do that for a long time. And then eventually I'll be like, okay, now I'm going to ask you slash tell you, like, this is what I normally charge. I really want to keep working. together and let me know what we can do and just be really nice about it but be really up front like this is my time and my energy I have no time and no energy left other than this so like this is kind of what we can do or this or we can't this is like a way to put it in really simplified terms that everyone understand it's like a guy just walking up to a girl and saying can we have sex so taylor like no but maybe if you take some time you say hey let's go to dinner let's go to lunch maybe let me meet your

parents, then when you ask, you're in a better position to get that yes, but you don't deserve the yes. It doesn't mean that the girl is obligated. So she could still say no. So that's the way, it's like with the brands, like they may, you're putting yourself in a better position for them to say, yeah, I'd love to. But if they say no, you've got to be able to say, okay, fine. You're going to say, wait a minute, I took you to dinner. Right. Now I deserve to get you late. You have to give for 10 years. Yeah, I got a lot, I did a lot of giving. I feel like you still have to give. on that note you're beautiful you're smart i love it can't wait to read your next book tell us where they can find you thank you so much you guys can find me on the balanced blonde dot com on

instagram at the balanced blonde you can find my podcast the balanced blonde podcast soul on fire on iTunes you can find it with both names and snapchat i'm jojo younger i have my o g name on there that was my screen name when i was like 12 so that's my snap chat and yeah basically all those different places. I love to connect with you guys and so much fun. I'm so glad that you had me on. And her book is incredible. And we were recently on your podcast, which you guys can find on iTunes. So be sure to check it out. Thank you for coming. Thank you so much. This was so fun. Okay, so that was fun. Before we go, remember to send questions into Twitter, Instagram using the hashtag Ask Him and Her and you can always snap us. I'm at Lauren

Everett's. And at Michael Bostic. We know. You tell us every time 20. Everyone knows. I know. I know. We all know. All right. So we're going to do more call-ins. Our year episode is coming up where we're going to do all Collins, right? Yeah. You know, I know we've been getting a little bit away from the questions, but we still keep them. We have a database. It's just we've been doing a lot of these interviews, which I hope everyone has been having fun with, enjoying them. But definitely, please still send in questions because we will get to them. And pretty soon we will do the call-in episode, which I love because we can, Really connect. Yeah, we're trying to mix it up.

So send us any questions if you want to call into podcast at the skimmy confidential.com subject line call in. And with that, we will see you next week. Thanks for listening to the skinny confidential, him and her, with Lauren Everts and Michael Bostic. Download new episodes every Tuesday at podcast.1.com or subscribe now on the podcast one app. Hey, it's Jordan Harbinger. For the last 10 years, I've successfully helped people build their self-confidence with my art of Charm podcast. And now, along with Art of Charm, I'm hosting a new show. It's podcast one's latest program,

The Forbes List. On the show, we talk to the Forbes editors that curate their famous and respected lists, like self-made richest people, billionaires and highest paid athletes. We'll get behind-the-scenes insight and information that doesn't make the print cut. It launches this week on February 16th, so please subscribe and iTunes to The Forbes List and don't forget to rate us, review, and share. I'm