The Bossticks - #89: PureWow With MaryKate McGrath -Productivity Hacks, Building a Media Company, Scheduling Time For Yourself, Self-Awareness, and Skyscraping

Episode Date: November 21, 2017

On this episode we are joined by PureWow's Editor in Chief, MaryKate McGrath to discuss what it takes to build a media company in the digital age, scheduling time for yourself, productivity hacks, the Instagram algorithm, self-awareness, and skyscraping.  PureWow is on of the largest media companies providing women's lifestyle content on a weekly basis and reaching millions of women around the globe. To learn more about PureWow click HERE To connect with MaryKate click HERE To connect with Lauryn click HERE To connect with Michael click HERE This episode is brought to you by FABFITFUN FABFITFUN is a seasonal subscription box with FULL-SIZE beauty, fitness, fashion, and lifestyle products. Their Winter box is amazing! It has products like Hollywood's 2-minute facial from Kate Somerville, a cozy BB Dakota poncho, an eye shadow palette, aloe infused socks, a chic choker necklace, and thats just the beginning. Check out www.FABFITFUN.com and enter code "SKINNY" at checkout to save $10 off your first box making it only $39.99. Each box always has a value of over $200 inside!

The following podcast is a Bostic media production. This episode is brought to you by Fab Fit Fun. So Fab Fit Fun just sent me their seasonal subscription box last week, which was so fun, it's kind of a play on words, because instead of the travel-sized typical subscription situation, it has full-sized everything. This includes beauty, fitness, fashion, and lifestyle. All things, you guys, TSC readers will love.

The box readers will love. The box retails for $49.99 a month and has a value of $200 worth of full-sized products. You guys know I love a steal. You guys will love this too. And you guys can enter the code, Skinny, all caps, for $10 off your first box at www.fabfitfun.com. Enjoy. She's a lifestyle blogger extraordinaire. Fantastic. And he's a serial entrepreneur. A very smart cookie.

And now Lauren Everts and Michael Bostic are bringing you along for the ride. Get ready for some major realness. Welcome to the skinny confidential, him and her. Welcome to the skinny confidential, him and her show. Today we are interviewing Mary Kate McGrath, the editor-in-chief of Pureweil, which is a huge American media company that publishes women's lifestyle content in which was recently acquired by Gary Vaynerchuk, aka Gary V, who has also been on this show, I believe episode number 51.

On this episode, we discuss how to build a media company, the Instagram algorithm, scheduling time for yourself, sky scraping, and how to develop self-awareness. For those of you who don't know us, I am Lauren Everett's the creator of the Skinny Confidential, which is a YouTube channel, brand book, and podcast. Sorry, I got to look. My throat's bothering me. No, no, no. You need to introduce yourself as the fake coffer. And I am Michael Bostic, entrepreneur, businessman, podcaster. Fake coffer. you guys see fake coughs. No. No, tell everyone what you do. No, I don't fake cough. And, you know, it's funny in this interview, Mary Kate and who you guys are all going to meet pretty soon and Lauren both make fun of me.

But I have this weird tick and I don't know if anybody else has this tick. It happens to me, you know, every time I wake up in the morning or if I've been out drinking or if I've been partying or if I'm just tired, I feel like I have to like clear the pipes. I know that sounds kind of gross, but I got to like cough and I got to like, you know, like just do this cough for a minute to like get like my lungs going again. I'm going to go. I'm going to go throw up on myself, but you do it every morning of every day in the shower. When you're brushing your teeth, it's a fake cough. And I actually forgot that we discussed the fake cough with Mary Kate. She evaluated it and she is really weirded out.

So if any of you guys as boyfriends or husbands fake cough. Or if any of you fake up, I feel like I can't be the only one. Like I feel like it's not a, but here's the thing. It's not a fake cough, guys. Maybe it's like a tick. No, it's a fake cough. I have to, you know, I have to like when I get up in the morning, I have to, I have to like, I feel like there's almost like dust in my lungs.

No, no, no, no. That's probably not good. It's a fake cough. No, it's not fake. It's the boy that cried wolf cough. It's not fake. It's just not one of those, like, it's not, I don't have a symptom, right? Like, I'm not like, I don't have like a cold or anything.

It's just like hard for me as your wife because when you actually are sick, it's hard to, like, know, are you fake coughing? I feel like I have, like, smokers' lungs, even though I'm not a smoker. Does that make sense? Yeah, but we got to stop. Like, the ticks out. Anyway. Okay. Okay.

All right. Well, speaking. I guess this doesn't have to do with fake coughs, but you probably will be fake coughing on Thanksgiving. It's Thursday. Thanksgiving. Talk to everyone about your favorite holiday. You know what? I'm going to, again, I'm probably going to get shit on again.

I was saying the other day I was working out with Kim and Lauren and I was saying I'm not even that big of a fan of Thanksgiving. Be honest what you were really saying, though. I'm not that in it. I'm not that into it. No, I'm not that into it. I don't really, I've never really gotten that off on the food. Like, you know, I get everybody like, you know, they love the turkey and they do the stuffing and

the cranberry and all that. I actually love the spicy cornbread. Yeah, the cornbread, and then everyone does, like, the leftovers. Let me tell you something. During the year, I'm not eating this stuff all your... Like, I'm not looking for a big spicy corn bread. I'm not looking for the stuffing. I'm not drizzling gravy everywhere.

I don't want a turkey. You don't want a green bean casserole? No, and I definitely don't want day-old food. I mean, I know, like, you know, that's like an American tragedy that I'm not into Thanksgiving leftovers or Thanksgiving. I appreciate... Be honest why you're really not into Thanksgiving. I feel like it has nothing to do with the. I appreciate the sentiment, and obviously there's a lot to be thankful for,

and I like that part of it, except when your dad makes me hold your little brother's hands at the dinner table. Miles, I'm sorry, I love you, but I don't like holding your hands, especially when you're, yeah, he does. We bow our heads, and I'm like holding your little brother's hands. It's super creepy. Brad, at least maybe sit me next to some of the girls in the family. I don't mind doing that, but, you know, there's me and little brother Miles holding hands and bowing her heads. And so, you know, I do that because you got to respect whoever's, like your dad's hosting that dinner. So it's his dinner table. Brad, I love you. I'm respecting the table, but I don't want to hold Miles' hands anymore.

Michael, the reason that you don't like Thanksgiving has nothing to do with the food. Tell the real reason. No, that is the real reason. You hate a family dynamic. No, I don't hate a family dynamic. First of all, you're going to get me in trouble again. I love my family. I love everybody involved. But there's just so many stops and so many different things going on and there's people in the kitchen and, you know, they're all high-fiving that they're cooking and I can't contribute there. and I end up just drinking like wine or champagne or tequila or beer or all the above in the corner. We do Uber with the dogs. No, listen, I think I would like it more if I could just go to one location and not have to run around. We have to go to like three locations every time with the dogs in Uber's because we're not going to drink and drive.

You shouldn't drink and drive on Thanksgiving. No, don't drink and drive ever. You shouldn't drink and driving is so out. No, I mean, listen, we have Uber now. That's where we don't need to do that. Okay. We don't need your whole life story. What we really want to know is what is your highlight of Thanksgiving,

and I hope it includes my pumpkin roll? Well, it's definitely not holding Miles' hands. I keep going on that. Is it my pumpkin roll? Yeah, the pumpkin rule is good. The one time of year that I really put up. You know what? You know what?

Julie, if you're listening to this, learn stepmom Julie, the dessert she makes, those are fire. All her desserts are on burlap and crystal.com. I got to be honest, everyone makes great food. I'm not complaining like your dad's great. My parents are great. The food's great. I hate the word great. It's not my, it's not like my go-to. You know what I mean? Well, you know, I'd like to see you cook Thanksgiving. Maybe one day we could have like an Italian dinner. We'd have something like pasta,

get some pizza, you'd have steaks instead of having to do like the big Thanksgiving. You know what I always feel too? Like, what are we stuffing this bird with? Michael. That's kind of gross if you think about it. Okay. Well, I just want to shout out Julie, my stepmom for one second. All her recipes that she cooks on Thanksgiving can be found on her blog, which is www. Brillapenchristle.com. She did our entire house. She's doing our house in L.A. She's adding some touches to it.

So she's fab. We are doing Thanksgiving with both families this year. And we do the whole usual. And my sister's fiancee's family too. So we're adding another family. And listen, I love that family too. But there's a lot of families merging together here. I think you've said the word family too much this episode already.

Anyways. We hope you guys are going to have a nice Thanksgiving. You should make my pumpkin roll. It's on the blog. It's insane. It's a real hit. it's kind of hard to make, but I do it every year. And you love it, so I don't know why you're acting like it's not a big deal.

I love it. I'm not complaining about the food. I'm just saying it's not my favorite type of cuisine. Like, people get super fired up about Thanksgiving. Thanksgiving is not a cuisine. I think because, yeah, I guess it's not like Italian, right? It's not like Japanese food. Pilgrim cuisine.

Yeah, but, yeah, but it, you know, I just, I could leave it. Everyone has had enough of this. Let's go. It's slops the cranberry juice on the turkey and whatever it is. Let's get into him and her tip. you can go first. Okay. Speaking of triptophen, is that I say it,

triptophen, triptophan, triptofen. That's from the turkey, right? So originally my tip this week was going to be about naps. I'm a big believer lately in a quick 20, 30 minute power now, but I'm actually not going to do that this tip because I thought it was a little bit boring

and I thought it's like not so great. It wasn't so titillizing, right? Is that how you say that? So my new tip this week is one that I actually use every single day that's practical. It pisses Lorne off, but it's a really good tip for those of you that have a difficult time getting up early in the morning but want to and need to, you know, you're digging deep trying to find that discipline

and you've got to get out from under the covers. So my tip, I've been doing this for the pretty much six months this year, the last six months. I first, I sleep with my cell phone away from my bed so that I can't use it when I get into bed. Like I charge it completely away from the, for myself, and I put that on a charger or somewhere else in the corner of the room. So I, I don't have access to my cell phone. And I put an alarm on there for, let's just say, 635. We'll just use that 635 number. And then, to make it even more annoying, and this is the part Lauren really hates,

I actually have an old school alarm clock. You know the ones that we had back when we were kids, you know, when you didn't have cell phones? Yeah. You know what it is. I use that and I put that, it's a little digital one with the battery. I put that away from my bed so that I have to physically get out of my bed to reach it and turn off the alarm, and I put that for 630. So what happens is I'm forced in the morning when that alarm goes up to get out of the bed

to turn it off. Then to double down on that, once that's done about five minutes later, my cell phone starts going off in another part of the room. So I physically have to walk to one place, then another place to turn these alarms off. And I find by the time I've done that, I'm either so fired up or frustrated that I got ripped out of bed that way, that I'm up and I'm ready to go. But once you do that for a few weeks in a row, then it just becomes habit. and now I find myself getting up naturally at that time every day.

Not 6.30, but sometimes I think I'm up mostly around like 6, but still use 630 as an example. So you can do that too, and it'll help you get up early in the morning. And also not having the bed by or not having your phone by the bed is really helpful. Okay, Michael. So get up and get at him. All right. So my tip is a little bit different. If you guys follow me on Instagram, you know that I found a new gem of a book.

It's such a good one. This one was recommended to me in the skinny confidential secret Facebook group by a reader named Cammy who owns Shopsie doll. I'm actually wearing one of her necklaces now. It's the little round gold one. They're super cute. Anyway, this book, okay, it's the shit. Basically, it's this book that's all about preventative skincare, which is something that I've been talking about every single day for the last seven years. And the book is called The Little Book of Skin Care by. Charlotte Show. I hope I'm saying her name right. And she's a beauty guru, super into Korean beauty. All the details will be included in the show notes on this book and on the blog, but basically this book is something that everyone should read, especially if you're under 30 and you're a woman. It breaks down all the treatments, procedures, sheet mask info, the importance of sunscreen, which you know I love, and gives you some major realness when it comes to getting that glowy-dewy skin that we all want. There's even a whole chapter that's dedicated to sunscreen visors and staying out of the sun. So, you know, can you blame me? I'm pretty excited. So I feel like I

needed to share that with everyone and spread the word. And the book is super Instagrammy. It's pink and white and cute and chic. So go check it out. Okay. Speaking of skin, let's talk about Kate Somerville's two-minute facial that's included in this season's subscription Fab Fit Fun box. There's kind of nothing better. First of all, the goodies that are included in their winter box are full-sized products. The box also includes a BB Dakota poncho, aloe-infused socks, which I cannot wait to wear during travel, especially to New York. A super cute choker that I wore in Cabo, you might have seen it on my Snapchat, and much, much more. So, I've been wanting to try this box for a while. I saw it on Courtney and Chloe Kardashian's Instagram,

and I was like, what is in that? And then Bethany Frankel and Ashley Tisdale showcased it, so I was even more intrigued. I feel like I need to like be the spy for you guys. Anyway, I just feel like the previous brands that they've had in the box speak for itself. I mean, they've had, you know, Dr. Brandt, Tart Cosmetics, Juice Beauty, Millie, Zola, Michael Star, Moroccan oil. I mean, tons and tons of brands, all the brands that I've used a million times. So it's kind of like having your ideal beauty and fashion situation delivered straight to your door. Also, for the holidays, I think that you could get the box and you could take a couple items for yourself and then you could gift the items to friends and family, wrap them up really cute,

and kind of have like a makeshift box that you gift separately. Does that make sense? you could also just give it all to yourself if you want anyways when the box came to my door i wasn't expecting full-sized products which was really badass and they're all full-sized they're not travel size um it feels really fulfilled i feel like i need to go back for a second and talk about kate summerville so this is the standout star in the box because it's her exfolicate intensive exfoliating treatment you guys know i love love love skin and this product does not disappoint it's just fabulous for removing blackheads and dead skin. You mix this with the aloe socks and you're in business. Anyway, if you're like me, you prefer treats delivered straight to your door instead of having

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It's perfect for winter. It's perfect for the holidays. I know you guys will love it as much as I do. Enjoy. Today we have Mary Kate McGrath, editor-in-chief of Pure Wow, who spent more than a decade in print publishing at InStyle, Food Network Magazine, and Real Simple, before a friend suggested she meet with Ryan Harwood, Pure Wow's CEO. She had a blowout and she wanted to meet with him. That's the story, you'll hear it. Anyway, she was instantly convinced of Ryan's mission to become one of the best online publishers of women's lifestyle content, and she jumped to join the company. Pure Wow has recently partners with VaynerMedia and entrepreneur Gary Vanderchuk. Between their 15 seconds of blink beauty and their social media presence, they're kind of killing the game. It's so inspiring and was so inspiring to sit down with someone who represents their brand in all the right ways.

Mary Kate is someone you want to go have Rosea with on a Sunday. You guys know what I mean? With that, let's welcome Mary Kate to the show. This is the skinny confidential, him and her. her. Okay, Mary Kate, tell us how Pure Wow came about. Okay. So I can't take any credit for it. I can take all the credit for it after a certain point, but I like to joke that our CEO and founder, Ryan Harwood, grew up as a little boy who just wanted to talk about women's smoky eyes and like perfect red lipsticks, although that's not really the case either. It's a good story because it is what's

driven the company for years. We're about seven years old now. So Ryan was out of school working at Goldman Sachs as the banking financial world and had been a tennis player growing up and had been pro for about a year before he joined Goldman and went there and say what you were about Goldman. He just found it to be a place of like no passion. And he really missed like the day to day passion, which is definitely like the number one thing that drives us every single day. We find people with passion at Pierwow. And so he did some research, held some focus groups, and thought he would join media in the media space, had some friends there, but thought he would start like a men's brand. Like who was he to start a women's brand? But after holding these focus groups, it's very

clear to him that women, this is about seven years ago, were predominantly the shares on social. so like that force was there. Advertisers definitely put, you know, more money behind efforts to target women. But then when he did even more research to finding like, all right, so what would their value property? Like what would Pure Well actually be in this space? The themes that resonated then still resonate now, that there wasn't a digital media property that talked to an upper millennial or lower Gen X woman. So at that point, think like, and friends of ours are there, like, refrauding. refinery or pop sugar, like those are properties that were really vying for an 18 to 24 year olds.

And then when this woman gets older and has like such purchasing power and more disposable income, she was kind of left on her own. And so this the scene at that point was kind of like Web 1.0 and 2.0. So if you're like a woman in your like upper 20s or lower 30s, you're almost faced with like either mommy blogs or like really, really, really crappy cooking recipes and like listen, listen, list of what you're doing bad to your chicken or something like that. Like, it just was not good content. And so I met Ryan two years into it.

He didn't have an editor-chief at that point. He had amazing content creators, but just not someone who was kind of like the face and leading the charge on the content side. And we met two years into it. And I laughed because the person who connected us said, you've got to talk to this guy. Harwood, he works at Pure Wow. And I was like, well, what's Pure Wow? And I thought she said Purell. And I was like, well, I don't want to go to a hand sanitizer company. And you know when you have like a good blowout and you don't want to waste meetings, I had a good blowout that day. I was like,

fine, I'll meet Ryan. I do not like to waste meetings if I have a good blowout. I mean, you got exactly what you're talking about. If you're a home at like eight o'clock and you have a good blowout, like you should just pick up the phone and figure out plans. If Michael doesn't see me after a blowout, like what is the point? Zero. It didn't happen. Yeah. If it blow, it happens in the woods and no one's there to see it.

It didn't happen. So I took the meeting because, you know, my hair was looking fly. And within two minutes, he basically told me that pitch, like the what do women read online past a certain age? And, you know, it wasn't like, it was exactly me. Like, he's like, what do you read in print? And I must have mentioned every single map. magazine in the world. And he's like, what do you read online? I was like, Facebook. Like,

I didn't know what that meant. And he's like, yeah, we're going to answer that. Like, we're going to figure that out. And so from the jump, Pure Wow was going to be, and it is like a destination for women to make their world more beautiful, more manageable and easier. And we cover all of lifestyle. So like, you can come to Pure Wow if you want new fashion tips. You can come to Pure Wow to figure out what you should read next. You can come to peer while to figure out what you should make for dinner that night. You can come to peer wow to figure out what the latest is with, you know, Kristen Bell and Doc Shepherd. Like, we kind of hit every single passion point a woman might have. In a cool way. In a cool way. Like, we're not judgey. We're not preachy. And we're like,

yeah, we're in on it together. Like, we're all kind of going through this journey together. So like, we don't hold anything in too high regard. We're like, we don't hold anything in too high regard. We're what do you do when you spill your entire lunch on your lap and you're at work? Like, those are real problems that need to know. Just go home. Go home. Give in. So I have a question.

When you guys first started and you cover so many things now, how difficult was it to capture an audience? Did you have to start with one thing or did you guys kind of cover everything? Like how did you build from the beginning and capture a readership? Sure. Ryan was really smart in the beginning. we started really organically through email. So, you know, emails are really active platform. Like if you allow someone into your inbox, you really, that trust is there.

So it was from the early days, the email audience was incredible, super captivated and super sharing. So like they got the content. They spread it like wildfire. And pardon me, it wasn't until years later, not years later. maybe two years after I started, that we gave enough due attention to the platforms. But in the beginning, it was email and on site. But the good thing about that is, is that once you have that audience, once you have the really captivated audience on your own and operated site and email, no matter what happens

to the platforms, like if Facebook was to like go up in flames tomorrow, we would still have our core audience. So for a lot of publishers, I've had to ride the waves of Facebook algorithms, Instagram algorithms, Snapchat coming in and out of vogue, coming back in vogue now, we think, like, we've always had this core audience that has been so reliant that we can rely on. That's been amazing. I want to talk about the Instagram algorithms. Yeah. So tell me how you guys have had to evolve your strategy on Instagram from when you started to now, because I feel like you have a lot of insight with that. Sure.

And Facebook, I guess, while we're about it. Yeah, I mean, Facebook is, Facebook is a behemoth. Like, I don't think we even have enough time, right? Like, Facebook is so big. Like, remember Facebook Live? Like, you know what I mean? Like, months ago, we were producing a daily Facebook Live. And that's because the algorithm was asking for it.

And now it's completely deprioritized it. And now Facebook Watch. And so, like, obviously, we have a team of, super savvy and super smart audience development and marketing people who are completely clued into what's going on. But I think it's actually interesting what's happened to the Instagram because that was like a mix of art and science that came to play there. So when we, you know, we've been on Instagram from the beginning. And from the beginning we thought of it as like almost a cover page for Pure Wow. So you would come to Pure Wow and be like, oh, they write about fashion.

They write about books. They write about home. They worry about food. they worry about wellness, they worry about money. Like, the list goes on and on. And just as like maybe your audience is glazing over, like so is Instagram. Instagram wants to send super clear signals to their audience. Their algorithm is very different than Facebook in the sense that they want you to live in

your lane and to compare apples to apples. So Instagram kind of didn't know what to do with us. So what's an example of that, like living in your lane and comparing apples to apples? Okay. So if you're... Let's like like an influencer or somebody building a brand on. on Instagram. Perfect.

So let's say you're a beauty influencer. You can have hair videos. You can have lip tutorials. But if you all of a sudden throw up a recipe, A, your followers might not know what to do with it. So you might be dinged a little bit just from comments or likes. But B, the algorithm doesn't classify it in the same lane. So you almost lose brand equity or credibility. Like you're, you've all this stock in beauty.

if you throw in food, Instagram for some reason, and I get it, and we can talk a little bit about that, but like doesn't know what to do with you. So they won't necessarily send that to explore. But if you're a beauty blogger and you have this insane hair tutorial, like you might be on explore the next minute. It's because they protect their users and they want the user to, the user come there and saying, I'm here for beauty. And all of a sudden there's a recipe. And it's like, that's not what this person came here for. A thousand percent. And which I like totally respect, right? Like you want. that's the thing about... They niche down.

I respect it, but it's difficult. I think it's great for brands and companies because that's their thing and they do that one thing. But like as an individual, it can be difficult because if you want to talk one day about beauty and health and then the next day you're like, okay, but here's my recipe. I don't think it's as... I think it's definitely hard. I mean, sure, content is hard. And I think that it's, I think that I get it though. Like, I mean, I think it's hard, but like I understand.

And I've had this experience where there will be a blogger that I love. And all of a sudden she's like, here's my nut bread recipe that's made with like sunflower butter. And you're like, no, no, no, no, no. You're like my braid girl. Like you teach me how to braid my hair. Like I don't, you're in the kitchen now. Like while we understand that in life, for some reason, you know, first it's an aesthetic platform. So like if it falls out of the aesthetics you're used to, I understand that that's kind of like a red flag.

I mean, I get it. I don't love it because it's hard because you want to be everything to everyone. How can a user that's an influencer get their Instagram seen more? Do you recommend hashtags location? What are some of your tips that you guys use at Pure Wow to get your content seen? A thousand percent. So it's hashtags, location, knowing that the algo scrapes, I think it's like three times a day. I love the word algo.

I'm going to steal that from you. Like, I want to name my first child, Algo. Oh my gosh, we should do a story on like Instagram names. Imagine Kate Middleton's like, worlds, the next royal baby is Algo. Algo bostick. It's also doubling down and skyscrapering, which is the best marketing word ever, skyscraping, which you know does well. So for us, that's good example.

I don't know what that means. So for us, Kate Middleton does really well in our entertainment vertical. Like people just love her. She's kind of easy to love. She's smart. she's beautiful she has this amazing life but she you know is like a sneakers girl at the same time so like we kind of all fancy ourselves little kate middleton once in a while so if we know kate middleton's doing well for us which we'll see from our data then we will skyscraper it or mean build more stories

upon it so kate middleton here kate middleton's best looks kate middleton's oh there's like this like funny thing about what they won't let their kids watch. Like all these little things that we find out and then we just keep building on that and then referencing other stories. So cross-referencing your own content, it's okay to be pretty self-referential there. And the same thing applies on Insta. So like if you know that nail art does well for you, like we have this new channel called Blink Beauty.

Which I'm going to do tomorrow. Yes, you are. We're so excited. So we know, like, hair and nail art does really well for tutorials. And the idea behind blink beauty, it's that it's beauty in the blink of an eye. So it's the fastest tutorials on the entire worldwide web, we hope. Someone's going to come in with, like, instillink beauty or like alga blink beauty and like fastas. But so we know that like hair does really well.

So I think you might be doing a hair video. So then it's like having, we know hair does well. So dive, dive, dive deep into that and kind of keep doing that until the audience wanes, but usually they don't. Like, you're giving the audience what they want, and when you skyscraper it, you just give them more of what they want, and you're sending all the right signals to the outgo. And then the other thing I love is, like, sharing content within, like, minded bloggers and influencers.

So find your sphere and share and tag and create together, and sharing audiences is, a great way to build audiences. I mean, it's like marketing 101 stuff. It's so funny. Like the platform might have changed, but the techniques have stayed the same. And what about Snapchat and Twitter thoughts? Totally. So Twitter, it's funny. Like, I'm just not personally a huge Twitter user, and people always think that I would love it because I love quick copy and I love the news. But I think that I'm just such a voice person right now, like podcasting, I think is just the jam. And I'm way more interested in that right now than Twitter, even though I know that Twitter probably seats tons of great ideas for a podcast and voice.

It's a little dated, huh? I need it's like a revamp. It's just not enough for me. Maybe I just have like need too much stimulation. But like I think everyone needs that simulation. Right? Right. So it's kind of fallen by the wayside because everyone's very much more excited by like videos and voice and pictures.

And it's like it's hard to just keep up with, I don't know how many words they can, like 18 words or whatever the hell it is. Like three. Yeah. I don't know. And then they were playing with like giving people more and I just I don't I just don't use it as much. But a lot of the like I was listening to Pod Save America yesterday, which is amazing. Those are the guys from the Obama administration and like they're obviously discussing Twitter left and right. So like I'll let them read it for me. And then Snap like what was better than Snap a couple of months ago, right? Like the best. Instagram doesn't, like, I use it, I use the stories, but I like Snapchat stories better. You do? Yeah, and I like, I like using it. The camera's better.

And I think, honestly, I mean, maybe this is not for any of our demographic, but for, you know, 18, 16 to, you know, 22, that's where they still are. Like, that's where they're communicating still. And that's where I'm sending nude photos to Michael on, you know? Exactly. No, of course. That's where I'm sending nude photos of the world. Oh. Oh.

You guys, I'm so nervous with all these things with, like, Harvey and stuff that, like, all the news. that like all the new photos or someone's going to just come up with some like new app that's like here all the bad pictures that everyone has sent the entire world oh let's not put that even now i'm sorry i don't need to see what i was doing in 18 i know that's unfortunate no i love snap the most and i think that you know in january we joined gary vena chock over here um viner x and i think that He's so great about charting audience and charting attention. And I think that right now, Snapchat and attention is super interesting. Like there's a lot of, obviously, spotlights on Insta as they iterate and take things that are very Snapchat looking.

But I think, you know, his whole thing a lot of times is when everyone looks left, that's a new buy right. And honestly, we still have large audiences on Snap. So it's like, why would you stop? Just because everybody's talking about how great Instagram, it's like you don't abandon a demographic. If anyone wants to get a hold of me, like my audience, they go to Snapchat because it's like texting your audience. It's a lot easier to use than Instagram DM.

My Instagram DMs are all over the place. And right now the metrics, right? Like you're seeing exactly what people are seeing. So it's not at all like, you know, a little muted or muffled from like Insta. The most beautiful thing about it in the world is this. You can see what. your audience is screenshoting. So what I like to do is literally build my brand by these screenshots.

When I see that these girls are screenshotting probiotics, I know that I need to do a post for my readers on probiotics. You skyscraper it, baby. And I don't understand why anyone would move off the platform, even if they have two followers. Like, you have those two people's attention. You should still be creating content on there. But people get lazy.

And so they just want to put all their eggs in one back. basket when sometimes it's good to kind of do both well it's so funny like when you say what should influencers do to grow it's that right it's it's hustle it's so much work right like it's constantly finding content like my husband always jokes he's like content content content and but like who knows what will stick like this morning i took um video of charlie who's three wearing his like swim floydies and breakfast and like the amount of girls in my office that were like Charlie oh my gosh he kills me like you know you just you don't know what's going to like make someone happy or delight them and um while Charlie's cute you know probably till what age four or five

so I'd like a child model um I'll just keep using them and I'll just keep finding that content I want to talk about content creation now that we're speaking on content so what does that look like on a day-to-day basis for pure while. Sure. So we have editors in every single one of our beats, everything from, you know, pop culture. We call our pop culture arm the gist because it's supposed to be quick pop culture. And the tag is pop culture for smart girls. So we have kind of beats and desks for each vertical.

So beauty has their own desk, podcast, I mean, entertainment has their own desk, books, wellness, food. So it's kind of always happening. then the coolest thing now is the multi-dimensional ancillary content. So like we just see so much opportunity. Like if you're, if I'm here talking to you, maybe this should be a video and maybe this video should be sliced up and become its own insta series. Or maybe we should swipe up for like, you know, the two of us would do like an interview separately on like how we start our day or, you know, it's just kind of finding the, the arms and the and the ways to really leverage. coverage content and then different angles always looking always because if you're going to do one thing

if you're in the room if your brain is like directed towards that idea on and a good blowout i mean seriously let's do it how critical is like i don't maybe this is the wrong way to say like the chopping block because if you guys have so much content and so many editors and writers sure and then it comes through your desk yeah what is like what gets stopped what gets you know what gets through sure we we we don't i don't want to be snarky like we don't i don't want to be snarky like I don't want to pretend that we know more than the consumer. Like, we don't. We're in it, too.

Like, one of my favorite recent beauty tricks that we had is that called the smush and pull for mascara. And it's where you take your mascara wand and you smush your eyelashes all the way inside to the corner of your eye, which looks and feels so weird. It sounds very painful. Yep. And then you feather them out and you get no clumps. And, like, that's a really fun thing that we've discovered when someone's getting their makeup done. but like I don't want to like that we never deliver that to our audience like we know how to never get you know clumps on your mascara instead it's like you guys seriously we just found the best trick for mascara or like you're talking to a friend over happy hour a thousand percent and I think that's where media companies I think there's two ways that you lose that voice in authority one is by not having your own stable of people so like we don't have a big network of freelancer We have trained editors who know that voice, who know that, like, really value prop that we give to our audience.

We've never had really luck with using. We have some amazing. We have, like, some freelancers, but it's more of, like, a small, stable and not, like, a huge network. We're not, like, a place for people to, like, rent our space and rent our audience. Like, we really are a space that, like, holds our audience dear and makes sure that, like, that we never lose their trust. So we can really never deliver any content that doesn't really, really. delight them and make them smile and make them think that their day just got better. So anything that might be snarky doesn't get through my desk.

Anything that doesn't have the like, oh my gosh, I didn't know that before. And that's subjective, right? Like I've been working in women's lifestyle for a while now. Like I've seen and read and written a lot of stuff. But the best is when we deliver it in the way that it's like, oh my gosh, I didn't know that and that's awesome. And holy smokes, they are going to go nuts. And then...

It's like you're sharing with a friend, like an inside secret. A thousand percent. And then what we do now, it's so fun that we've, like, built up the company this way is I jump up from my desk and I say, like, okay, video, we need to make this a video as well. Like, hold the story until the video is ready. And audience, we need to make sure that, like, we put this front and setter on Facebook. And, oh, wait, isn't one of the influencers in the codery, which is our influencer network, Like Lauren, like maybe she would actually want to, you know, be part of this.

Maybe we could shoot her doing it. Like that's when it just is like organically like rises upon itself. When you're, when you find a good idea, you want to like shout it from the rooftops. You guys did the nicest interview. I loved that interview. Yes. That was very, very nice. It was fun to talk to her on the phone.

She interfaced in me for, I think, like, like, I want to say like an hour. Oh my gosh. Yeah. We have some really good, really good people here. But the thing that I think I'm most proud of after five, whatever, years here is that we've built this team. We've built the audience. Like we reach hundreds of million of women, and that's amazing. And, you know, it's, we have new things coming out all the time.

We have this, like, episodic series coming out wonderfully real. We just shock one of the paltro for it. Like, we have innovation coming out in speeds. We have good ideas coming on speeds. That's not, like, unique to a content company. but what I think is unique is that we really like each other. And we hire people, and Ryan and I still interview almost every single person who comes on staff. That's amazing.

And like they're good people. And like going back to passion, like we hire people who we always say like, what's your passion outside work, like tell us what you do? And then when someone's like, oh, I break dance competitively, like that changes the game. You're like, okay, tell me everything about that. And also now you have to break dance for me. I love it. Yeah. I want to talk about your Gary V. story.

Give me all the details on that. First, I just love him. Don't you love him? I can't believe you are like one of his favorite people. I love him. I think you were actually one of my first, like he was like, you have to meet. So I had known Gary for a while. Ryan had known him longer.

And he, it's funny, I always say to people, like if you're a follower, if you're one of the two million people that follow him on Insta, you might think that he's like crazy which he is like he is he does not sleep like he is just the most energetic person but what i think is the most unique about him is that it's not smoking mirrors he is a practitioner of social like he is fully vested in our lives through social and when you're that type of person it's not smoking mirrors like you believe it you live it And, like, his ideas, first of all, his ideas are like, remember in the Wizard of Oz when it turns to technicolor? Like, that's how Gary thinks.

Like, you'll be in a meeting and everything's like black and white, black and white, black and white. And then Gary will be like, or what if we switch it, turn it on its head and actually have them pay us to do that? And everyone's like, oh, yeah, that's the idea. Oh, my gosh, I didn't think about that way. Like, he just sees things in, like, at max volume and all of us are, like, on mute. it's incredible and I feel bad for the people who are like constantly getting ideas okayed by him because you'll bring him an idea and he's just like okay here's 19 ways to make it a thousand percent better thankfully still to date he likes my ideas but I'm sure that day is

coming so the reason why we joined Gary is A for that social prowess like he has brought pure wow into a new realm and social like we are going so hard after instagram right now we're launching all these different verticals so it kind of backs back to what we were talking about before like you you know it was really hard for us to be lifestyle and try to be everything to everyone on instagram so now we're really building out these passion points for our women like we right now have the biggest bridal instagram account um pure wow weddings and we are like building out beauty for blank beauty and like we know that that our consumer wants to see that content grouped in like content and not as a kind of hodgepodge plate and like the way that he adds social into like editorial components that

we are doing or like temples that we look to do like it's just incredible so both his brain was attractive to joining him and then what he's built like he's quietly built this amazing um agency here and they are some of the best in class in knowing how to find attention through social. Like they're kind of like the beginning of social marketing and it's incredible to have those people like kind of fighting for your content too now like fighting to make your content better. And the two companies, Pure Wow and Vayner and we've started this holding company called Vayner X now but the two companies under VaynerX PureWa and Vayner Media had that one. one thing in common that this keeps time back to is just passion. Like they hire really nice people

at VaynerMedia. And so when we joined, it was like this really warm welcome. Like that's a tough moment, right, to bring two companies together like that. And it's amazing how hard they've worked to make us feel so welcome. I love it. Okay. So tell me some books and resources that you recommend. And while you do this, I'm going to Snapchat you. gosh. Wait. Okay, books. Or it could just, not even just books and books, but it could be anything that you use for

like productivity or inspiration or something that you think to, maybe that you give to people. It could be an acupressure mat like I use. That was one of my resources. Okay. I want to think, I want to give you like the craziest ones now. Okay. First, for quality of content, I sometimes look outside my fields. Like I don't always want to listen to or watch or read women's lifestyle content because

I like, I know that. Like, that's like running through my veins. But I love kind of tricking my brain and looking at content through different lenses. So I'm wholeheartedly obsessed with the Daily Podcast from The New York Times. Like I think it's just the epitome of like excellence in audio. Like the host is Michael Barbaro and they call his followers Barbos because people are like obsessed with him. And I don't know if it's his voice. I don't know if it's like the music queuing.

I don't know what it is. But he makes like the hardest news sound so good. So I start my day with that. I've gotten actually really into acupuncture recently. And I've been going to this woman, Shelly Goldstein here in New York, and she does an acupuncture facial, which is amazing.

That's like Botox kind of too. Oh, she can sculpt your face. It's bonkers. I know. She finds my jawline in like 20 minutes. I find my jawline from acupuncture too. Yeah, she's like totally changed my thoughts about this. like it's awesome. You should go, I'll intro you guys. So I love her. I love sticking my face with needles.

I know, I know. The pictures are kind of crazy. She also has this new math that she does. That's this like French clay. It's blue clay that hardens into like basically slime. And you know, I was saying before I like a six and three year old. I brought some of it home. And they're like, mommy, what is this? It's the most. I didn't tell them it was on my face like three hours before. Where else do I find inspiration? I am really overbooked and overcommitted. So I do this silly thing where I schedule time for myself. And if it's not two minutes.

I don't think that's silly. I do the same thing. I think that's really smart. What do you guys do? I'll literally schedule time like in the middle of the day in the office just like just 30 minutes for myself. Right. Do you walk outside or what do you do? A lot of time I'll be like outside or I'll go like if I need to like decompress for me.

It just it doesn't have. He has a game he plays. He likes to read. It depends what I got going on. But at the same thing. Like I think if you don't make time for yourself and you're just doing things with other people all the time. It's like it's hard to come to kind of like figure out your own thoughts and get in your own head and be like, okay, let me think this through and problem solve because you're constantly around other people, which is great and it's stimulating another way. But if you don't take that time to like reflect, you can get in some trouble.

I should probably do that. So what do you do when you take time for yourself? So it changes. Either I go, there's this new massage place near my house that's like the least fancy massage place. It's one of those like that you're in between beds are like a cheap thin curtain. Like you can completely like it's it looks like a hooker house. But these women, they stand on the bed and like grind into your back. and I honestly feel like if I didn't do that, I would, A, get sick.

Like, I don't get sick off and I would, A, think I get so much more sick. And B, like, it just gives me like that moment of just like, what goes through my head, it's like a brain dump. Like, I think about work. I think about my kids. I kind of think about, like, what I need to just do to get myself to the next massage, if that makes sense. Like, I'm like, okay, it's Sunday. Where am I going to be next Sunday? Like, what has to happen this week to make it, like, a successful week?

You are literally creating a compelling future by design for the week. Do you know you're doing that? Dying. You're creating your future and you're figuring out systems on how to get there while you get a massage. And then you're doing it. That is honestly, it's genius what you're doing. It's so funny. Like, I think that we write like thousands of stories at Pure Wow.

And yet when I, I don't know if I don't take my own advice or something. But like when someone's like, oh, you're doing that? I'm like, am I? Do you think? That's so crazy. You should write about that on Purewe. Wow. I should. I mean, that's a huge tip, I think.

I got this amazing tip yesterday from this. I met Bobby Brown, the makeup guru. And she was telling me that she's in the same place. Like a lot of times she doesn't have the time to look at her own house or like her house was kind of giving her like bad juju. And she just was like, I don't know what to do about it. Like I'm so miss. Like, what do I?

Like I don't have time to like make my living room better or whatever. And so she met with a life coach, which I have never met with. But I've got this guy's number. and we should definitely talk about this next time. We'll see my journey. But his idea, which is, I think, excellent, is you take pictures of your life. And so she was taking pictures of her living room

and then print the pictures out. That's the important part in our digital age. Like, I would never do this, but that's the important step. So you print the picture out. And then you look at your space. It could be your desk, could be your closet, it could be your living room,

and you circle the areas that give you, like, anxiety. So that would be Michael's shoes that are on my carpet. And the fake cough. It would just be a picture of me. The fake cough. He does a fake cough. It would just be one picture of me. No, there's a fake cough.

At all circles. Yeah. Just the whole, no, just a circle around my entire body. The trash can that he doesn't take out. The shoes that are on my carpet that belong. You know you guys have to do the trash. We can't deal with the trash. I try to do it.

Sometimes I forget, but I try to do it. I literally do everything. I fold his underwear. I don't want her to do that. Like I have time to do that, right? I tell her not to do that. But isn't it nicer that's folded? Wait, what's your sign, Lord?

Gemini. It depends. You see, I don't know which Lauren I'm talking to. You know, it could see there's two. There's about 40. Yeah, it's a different one each time, you know? So I'm a Virgo. Okay.

And I'm like a Virgo true and true. Like, I need my house in complete order. Like my poor nanny. I'm like, thank you so much for cleaning the kitchen. She's like, do you want to hear about the kids? I'm like, no, no, it's okay. The kitchen's so clean. I love you.

And she's like, do you want your brother day? And I'm like, it doesn't matter. I love the kitchen right now. They're hanging upside. Laura has two sides. I could not care. It's either like everything dumped in the closet all over the place or nothing completely clean. But that's me through Monday through Friday.

It's the dump. And then Saturday and Sunday, I want nine hours of an intrep as a time to like play dress up in my closet. Yep. I love it. Anyway, so you're supposed to take this picture, circle the parts that give you Ahtha.

And the idea is even if you don't get to it that day or that month, you at least do what you just said. Totally. It's so funny. Like you at least plot the plan for what you're going to do. or like, you're like, okay, that part of my desk or that part of my living room gives me, like, anxiety, but, like, I know that there's a plan behind it, and so it starts giving you less anxiety.

And I just thought that was so genius. That's interesting. I'm going to do that with your man cave. I can't stand the books on the floor. That's a great idea. The man cave was made so that I would have a man cave, a place to go. No, she's going to make it better now. I know.

I wanted to ask you, I mean, it's a kind of a two-part question. You, at this point, manage a lot of people. and there's a lot of young people that, I don't want to say too young, but there's young people that listen to this show that are working with companies or looking to work with the company. One, what would you say your advice would be to managers managing big teams? And two, what would you tell people that are working with big teams within that team? Like, how do you stand out?

How do you grow? How do you do a good job? That's such a question. How do you do the other side, which is how do you help that team grow? Totally. Okay. So I think there's two kind of tenants that I've always lived by. And one is you can't manage everyone, which is tough.

Like, there are some people on staff that are like, my girls, like, we've, like, been together for so many years. And I have, like, real opinions on their career and I have real kind of ideas for how they can grow. But I physically don't have the time to manage everyone. So I try to limit myself to five direct reports. Because think, like, we try to do one-on-ones, like, more than five. Like, where's your date?

where's the time to put out all the fires that happened during the day and plan for growth. I mean, that just, there is no time. So five tends to be a manageable number. I'm a little bit over it right now. When you say five, do you mean five people? Five people. And they have teams behind them. Got it.

You have to instill that kind of middle management layer. We have several layers at this point. Because how many people are here even just at Vayner? Like over. Oh, Vayner X is, I don't know, 800? I don't know the full numbers. Pure wow is about 100. Still 100 people.

Huge. Yeah, and then content creators are probably like 60% of that. But then being an executive, you obviously touch and are brought into different departments even if you don't oversee them. So I only have five direct reports, but again, more than that right now. But either or I try to get five. And then you have to teach them to be managers. And like, isn't it the truest thing that like some people just aren't managers?

I have some people on staff who would rather do anything else than sit in a room and have a one-on-one with somebody. Like, that's just not their jam. Lawrence pointed to get herself. Because you're like the creative force. I'd rather stab my eyeballs out and like, I don't know. No, but that's okay, though. Yes, you're the manager. Of course.

Of course. And that's okay. So, like, my number two, our VP of content is amazing. Like, it would be a waste of time to have her kind of like, fumble through. She manages people because we have so many people. I'm like, sorry, Jill, you got to manage. But like, she is a content genius and she can whip anyone's story into like absolute gold. So is she better to like talk to somebody about like their time off approvals or she better to like be making really good content. Like I think we know the answer. Yeah, Michael.

So it's like, right that down. Exactly. Write that down in your burn book. But I think it's, but at the same time like you said, she can't just completely check out. and not pay attention to her team. We're a startup. Of course. We're a startup. Like, even though we're seven years old, like, we're a startup. Like, we don't have institutional, like, management.

And, like, I don't think, well, no matter how big we get, we'll probably never get to that point. So, yeah, sorry, you've got to manage some people. But, like, it's knowing where people's strengths are. Then in the opposite side, I have this woman who is, like, a baller manager and, like, takes, like, such care and time with people and, like, really can then tell me the issue. like really succinct terms.

So like it's just knowing where people's like, are you EQ or are you more like operation like figuring. Gary V taught me that with your employees, how important it is to tune in to what they need and what what they want and listen. So would you say the first part of that then is that as if you want to be a manager, you kind of have to be self-aware enough to say, hey, this is what I, this is what my strengths are. This what I can do.

And I like connecting with people. Self-awareness on both sides, right? Like manager or not, like I can't believe how I think that's the number one thing. If you're not succeeding in your career, I think it's because you're not self-aware because you're not reading the cues. There are definitely signs in the wall that are telling you which way to go. And if you're not reading those, if you're not picking up from your teammates, what they need. And then the same to answer your question, like, what your manager needs. So, like, managing up is so important.

Like, even if it's people like you don't see all the time, just being like, hey, this is what I'm working on. And I just wanted you to have insight into my day. and I don't need anything back from you. Being like clear, like, all I want you to do on this is to read this. Like, we also adopted this super ridiculous, but, like, amazing thing. It's military terms, BLUF. Do you guys know this? Bluff.

So you put at the top of your email. It's bottom line up front. And you just say, like, bottom line up front, we're in a good place with launching our influencer network, the codery. We have 100 amazing women on board. and we're X, Y, and Zing. Like, that could be a bottom, a bluff. And then the email itself would have, like,

okay, so the 100 women are this, this, this, this, and this. They do this. We're super excited about these recruits. Like, it's, that can be, like, the meat of it. But, like, giving the person who's super, super duper busy, like myself, something very tangible, very quick is so important. Just to, like, let them stand out and remind them that, what's going on. What they need to know?

Like, don't hide back in the shadows. Of course. And just manage up, like, we are kind of. constantly giving people opportunity here, and we're constantly not micromanaging. So the people who do well, and I would think this would be in other areas and business and other, like, fields and other companies and whatnot. But if you're given lots of opportunity and you don't have a micromanager, then it's up to you to tell your team what you're doing. I like it. I want to know how someone can be more self-aware. Do you have any tips? Because some people just

aren't self-aware. I think people, I don't, you know, I'm not a doctor, but like, I would wager. That's the million-dollar question. Yeah, it is a million-dollar. I don't know. What do you guys think? Like, I would wager for my humble experience. It's people who go to the same people for either, like, reaffirming their life or, like, their problems, right? Like, if you go to the same three people with your problems, you're probably going to get, like, some sort of the same answer. That's a great answer. Right? So like I think it's people who don't go out of their comfort zone and someone would be like,

oh my gosh, but you do that? Like, isn't that strange that you always leave every meeting or you stand up in every meeting or you like start the day with a random cough? Like maybe someone doesn't like that. I think my, I think to touch on that and kind of build on what you just said, I think that's really good advice.

But I also think that it's the people that, you know, if something's not going the way they want it to be going in their life, and it continues to happen. and they're continuing to look for external things, that's the time when you've got to kind of look inward and say, wait a minute, like maybe something I'm doing is not working.

And then you've got to audit what those things are. I mean, right? Like, people who are not self-aware are constantly in the same predicament. I don't know if it's like they should journal. They should look back at their Instagram. I don't know what they should do to find the trends. But like I would think. Usually said something yesterday.

Say what you were telling me about who you should. hang out with. No, there was somebody I was listening to and I like what they said. And they said, I can't remember who it was, but it's been sticking with me. It's like you want to hang out with three different kinds of people. And you want to hang out with people that are below you, not below you in terms of like you're better than them, but like maybe they're not as far along in their career. Like they need a mentor. Sure. Mentioned them because one, it'll make you feel good to help them. And two, it'll make you kind of in a narcissistic way, make you feel better about yourself because I'm further along the path. And then you want to hang out with people that are on the same level,

like equal to your career, equal in relation, whatever it is. because those people become your peers and your friends and you kind of like grow with them and bounce. And then you want to have people that are much further ahead of you because because those are the people that you can teach you and that you can look up to and have a, you know, like a set point for a goal. And I think it's good. I think the people that have the most success kind of do a variation. And I think a lot of the time the people that don't, it's maybe they're only doing one of those things where it's like they're with the same peers or they're only looking at people below them or they're only looking at people. above them. And you can do this with podcasts, by the way, too, you guys. Like, you can listen to a podcast that's super gossipy. You know, it's like just like a boozy brunch. And then you could also listen to a

podcast that maybe you feel like you could have a conversation with the person. And then you listen to something that's like really highly intelligent. You mix it up. I do it with books too. I love that. Some people get overwhelmed when you like, like, let's take someone like Gary. Like if you're a young guy like me or 30 years old and you're looking at someone like Gary and you're, and if you're only looking at him and comparing yourself to that, you might feel bad about yourself. Of course. But you've got to kind of also look at, you know, where you are and then look at where you, where you used to be. And it kind of puts some perspective. Like, okay, I got 10, 20 years to get there. I have a really good set point here with the people I'm hanging out. And then I can also

help people below me. And so it kind of gives you a well-rounded picture of everything that is going on in your life. Whereas if you're just looking at one of those three types of people, you get in trouble. I love that. I love thinking about like buckets of people that support you. Because also like if you're not getting what you need from one bucket, like go get something from somebody else, like get fulfilled from something else. I love that so, so, so much. And I'm trying to think of like which one of my buckets isn't really filled those things right now. I'm sure you're good. Yeah, you seem like you're good. I need to go find like an old mentor or something. Before we go, I want you to give your number one tip for aspiring business women.

My number one tip for aspiring business women. Or men. Or men. Don't forget about us. I know. Okay, sorry. I know women are taken over the world, but don't forget about us. Watch out. Okay. So I think one thing that worked well in my favor was always the follow-up. Like, my dad taught me, like, the benefits of a handwritten note early in my life. Like, we, for every single thing in our life, we had to write someone a note.

And a lot of my success has been dealt, has been due to the, the fact that I forged relationships with people after the fact. So it was never like, oh, I just needed you for this and then nothing happened afterwards. It was, I needed you for this. We have a relationship now. And oh, hey, I just read an article that you might like and here it is. Hope you're doing well. Or, oh, hey, I saw on LinkedIn that you moved places. I congrats. I hope that move went well. or hey, saw on Facebook that you had a kid, here's some flowers or a PURWOL Wednesday. And it's not with any,

it's not like a give with any ask attached to it. It's just like business can be humanized. And I think that when you do that, A, it's more fun because if you work around the clock, then you're at least doing it with friends and people that you really like. But B, that's the difference between like doing it and people like supporting you right like if you have a network that's like that's the legitimate networking like people go to networking events and it's so formalized and it's so they're asking for a bunch of things and like they're handing you right and it's like I started this breakfast series called no agenda where I get a bunch women together and we just have breakfast and they're like from all different fields I love that and you're not allowed to bring like any kind of like we might do a work ask like oh you guys like I'm having a staffing issue or something that's that you're like I'm having a staffing issue or something.

something like that, but usually we just talk about like where we are, like what we're looking forward to and stuff like that. And the fact that it's people across different fields is what makes it so fun. And that is just like, that's networking, right? Like people think you have to go to these like fancy formal things. But like if you meet someone in a meeting, following up with them with a handwritten note or, I mean, no one does that anymore, but like some kind of, some kind of sentiment that's legit is gold. That is great advice. But that's the same thing as like in your DMs.

Answer all like who knows who will be like you think, oh, they're just the assistant or whatever now. Like who knows they could be running whatever next. And when they need someone who's exactly your jam, who are they going to think of? I love it. Thank you so much for coming on. Where can everyone find you, follow you guys, give us everything. Yes.

So Pure Wow. is wherever you are. We are on InstaSnap, Facebook, pural.com. I'm M.K. McGrath 212 on Insta, where you can find the most adorable pictures of Charlie and Jackson. Jackson is going to be a sand trooper for Halloween,

which is a real thing I didn't really know. Tuscan Raider, Sand Trooper. Oh, God, Michael. Don't get me started on that. And Charlie is going to be, I don't know, it's like a cat in a, I don't know, some like Disney character. Those are different?

Super different. But Disney owns all of it now. Disney has everything. It's amazing. Like I just write them a check every day to Amazon. You guys, I love you. This was so fun. Thank you.

Thank you for doing this. Thank you so much for coming on. My pleasure. Okay, let's do a fun giveaway, shall we? Last week, I picked a winner, but let's start new here. So this week, all you have to do is leave your number one beauty tip on my latest Instagram post to win five very TSC beauty products. And of course, make sure you're subscribed to the podcast to win.

It's super simple. I'll also include a TSC pop socket. They're so cute and pink and fun and florty. So go ahead and leave your favorite beauty trick on my latest Instagram to win this week. And if you guys want my five favorite beauty tips straight to your inbox, all you have to do is review the podcast on iTunes and screenshot your review and email it to Ask Lauren at the Skinny Confidential.com. That's Ask Lauren, Lauren with a Y at the skinnyconfidential.com.

Thank you guys always for the support. tell your friends, your family about the show so we can continue to grow the skinny confidential community. We love you guys and see you next week. This episode was brought to you by Fab Fit Fun. Their winter box is available now and it's filled with so many of my favorite brands like Tart Cosmetics, Juice Beauty, Mod Cloth, Dr. Brandt. I just love his mask. Trust me, you guys, I use it all the time, especially when I'm in New York. It's amazing. And Moroccan Oil. When I got my Fat Fit Fun box, I was actually blown away at all the variety. But the best part is, is it's full-sized everything. The holidays come four times a year with Fat-Fit Fun, and I'm about, be sure to enter the

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