The Bossticks - Abe & Erin Lichy On The Truth About Marriage, Ambition, & Life Behind The Reality TV Curtain

Episode Date: January 22, 2026

#930: Join us as we sit down with Abe & Erin Lichy – co-hosts of the Come Together podcast, founders of  the artisanal mezcal brand Mezcalum, & media personalities on The Real Housewives of New York. Together, they dive into marriage, parenting, business, & life with honesty & humor. In this episode, Abe & Erin come together & get real about working alongside your spouse, the unfiltered truth of entrepreneurship, how they stay aligned as partners, why fun & passion are non-negotiables in marriage, how they keep their sanity while juggling it all, & what life actually looks like beyond the cameras.   To Watch the Show click HERE   For Detailed Show Notes visit TSCPODCAST.COM   To connect with Erin Lichy click HERE   To connect with Abe Lichy click HERE   To connect with Lauryn Bosstick click HERE   To connect with Michael Bosstick click HERE   Read More on The Skinny Confidential HERE   Head to our ShopMy page HERE and LTK page HERE to find all of the products mentioned in each episode.   Get your burning questions featured on the show! Leave the Him & Her Show a voicemail at [phone].   This episode is sponsored by WOO More Play Visit https://woomoreplay.com to learn more about  WOO More Play. Now available in stores and online at https://www.fascinations.net, use code SKINNY30 for 30% off at Fascinations.    This episode is sponsored by Paleovalley  Head to http://paleovalley.com/skinny, or use code skinny at checkout for 20% off your first purchase.    This episode is sponsored by Discover Visit http://Discover.com to learn more.    This episode is sponsored by Dose Head to http://dosedaily.co/SKINNY or enter SKINNY to get 35% off your first subscription.   This episode is sponsored by Wildgrain Wildgrain is offering our listeners $30 off your first box - PLUS free Croissants for life - when you go to http://Wildgrain.com/SKINNY, or you use promo code SKINNY at checkout, to start your subscription today.   This episode is sponsored by Taylor Farms To learn more visit https://taylorfarms.com.  Produced by Dear Media

The following podcast is a dear media production. She's a lifestyle blogger extraordinaire. Fantastic. And he's a serial entrepreneur. A very smart cookie. And now Lauren Everts and Michael Bostic are bringing you alone for the ride. Get ready for some major realness. Welcome to the skinny confidential, him and her.

Aaron and Abe Leachie are on the show. This is a him and her show. They are married. Aaron and Abe are serial entrepreneurs. They also are co-founders of the mescal brand, Mascallum. I'm a fan. I love their Mascal. It's so delicious.

You also may recognize them from Real Housewives of New York. And they actually have a podcast called Come Together that is on the Dear Media Network. Michael and I had such a fun time sitting down with them and just shooting the shit on everything from kids to marriage to relationships to business. all the things. This episode is a mixed bag. On that note, let's welcome Aaron and Abe to the show. This is the skinny confidential, him and her. Do I have what it takes to be a housewife? Yes. Really? I think so. What does it take? Honesty and fun and being a real person.

But are the girls trips really hard? If someone's really mean to you, yes. But isn't it hard to be like with all these different dynamics trapped in a hotel? Well, I love girls trips. Are you like a girl's trip kind of girl? I'm not. Okay, so I love that. Like I thrive in a girl's trip. I just feel like I maybe have post-traumatic stress from Bachelor at parties that I need to conquer.

Yeah, so many, right? We had to go on so many of them. I mean, Jesus. I was getting married every weekend. Every weekend. Yeah, I was like, I remember one year I had like 12 weddings and I'm like, this is sick. Yeah, and it's even harder if you're a bridesmaid. Oh, I know.

And then they give you an ugly color to wear like, I can't wear mustard yellow. So bad. It's really bad. Welcome to the show. Thanks for having us, guys. We're so excited to do a him and her on him and her. It'll be fun. Have you done this before?

Yeah, we've done it. Yes, we've done it a couple times. But I'm excited to do with you guys because you talk on a mic together and you entertain together. And sometimes you do a him and her and it's like two, you're like interviewing two different people on two. It should be two different shows. Does that make sense? Yeah.

Yeah. And it's fine, but it makes it hard because you're like almost having two different conversations in the same episode. Mm-hmm. You're talking with the overlap of talking. It's just like somebody's coming in to promote one thing and the other person is doing something else and you have to like make it all work.

Yeah. Does that make sense? So let's get down to brass tax. Where were you when you found out that Abe sold the Bitcoin? Everyone wants to know about this. We're still talking about it. Sheena asked me this morning too. Yeah.

It's juicy. We're fascinated because I try, like anything we do, I try to tell Lauren exactly like what our situation is because I worry, like, if something happens, I'm like, I need you to know, like, what to do with our family. And she has no, like, she has no interest. No, that's not true. I have interest. I just think, I don't understand Bitcoin, so I don't understand where it is.

Which I wish I did. But I knew it was worth a lot and I was mad. So how did you find out? We were in the car and he told me. I was like, you motherfucker. But was it one of those things where you like, like, you were mad? Did you know about it before? And then you, I knew we had them.

Okay. You're asking if she knew. that I had sold it before we talked about it? Well, I was asking, was there an awareness that you even had it in the first place? Oh, yeah. But, like, I could have also not known because it wasn't my thing. But I still was really close. That moment was so relatable when you guys talked about this on the show,

because we all have had a partner that does something behind the others back and then gets caught red-handed. Well, I don't view it in quite those terms. Also, he wasn't caught. I wish he was caught. I think it's more about, and I think, I guess that happens with both genders, but I think men experience this more where you avoid saying things because you don't want your wife to be stressed out. This is not a justification.

This is the mindset. And a lot of men experienced this. And I've learned that you shouldn't do that. It's better just be forthright and honest. But you're also an avoidant person. Well, I was an avoidant person. Okay. You have changed.

You have changed. True. You know, it's one of the things is like not malicious. It's not life altering. It's just things happen when you started a business. years ago and it ate all our money up and it was a great learning experience. But from that, just a sequence of little small things and at what point it's like more small things accumulate. She's like, well, I can't say it now because then it's like all the other shit.

And then it comes to a head. I'm glad it did because we've been really good about communicating. When you say you used to be an avoidant person, but you've changed. What does that mean? Well, I had a spiritual awakening. Yeah, but it was before that. You're giving way too much. credit to the spiritual awakening. Fine. That's where I slayed the dragon. Okay. How did it begin? If you haven't, if you don't know, Abe is the biggest dork you will ever meet. I love it, Abe. I love dorks. Dork and slayed the dragon. So when did you start figuring out you had an avoidant personality and then what was the dragon that you slayed with your spiritual experience?

So I knew I've always known I've been avoidant, but it really came to a head with this Bitcoin thing, which was evocative of just a general issue. And it's something we had. had talked about a lot and Aaron helped me kind of bring to light. And that was a journey. I was on and then a couple of months ago was in a psychedelic healing retreat. And I went, I went in. I was at the source of creation and I slayed the dragon, which was my ego. I lost that. Was this the first psychedelic experience you've had? Definitely not. That this was the first of this kind that I've ever had. It was a binary thing.

Like, I've never experienced anything like this in my life. And I do psychedelics. I've done psychedelics. But for fun, like this was like a medical. Yeah, for fun. This was like a spiritual guided inward thing. It was, it was, I can't even explain it. I need to know what it was, though.

They've asked that I don't specify exactly, but it was a mix of psychedelics. MDMA and the dissociative. And did you have all these realizations when you were there? No. I was after that impact it. When I was in there, I met my ancestors. I sat at the source of creation. I existed not as a, but as light and sound.

And I traversed the universe. And then I created the multiverse and found the trickster figure, the archetype, who were my ancestors, who welcomed me home and told me to remember myself. And so then it was all the unpacking after that I really kind of understood what I had experienced. I would love to meet my ancestors. That sounds absolutely amazing. You have to tell me off air what this is. The guy that created it is also amazing.

So, Aaron, from your perspective, when he comes back, did you notice a difference? I mean, you've known each other obviously forever. I mean, he was, he had been changing that set. Like, he knew that he had an issue and he started to go to therapy and, like, was working on himself and all that. But this was like the jolt that he, I think he really needed to like really let go of. I mean, I don't know. I'm not going to give you that much credit yet. We'll give it time.

It's fair. But you have changed pretty drastically from that. So you don't feel you're a voided anymore? Not perfect. No, I still can be avoidant. I think it's not a binary thing. It's just a gradient. But really way less.

I mean, like even yesterday. Yeah. We were just talking real stuff about me. You guys know your business owners. Like there are ups and downs. There are challenges that we face. I mean, all good, but we're facing a little thing at work right now. And, like, he sat down and we just, like, had this whole long talk about it.

And I was like, you just came to me. I didn't ask you any questions. Like, you just fully opened up about the challenges that you are experiencing right now as your role in CEO. And I was like, do you realize that? Because that would have been something I feel like I would have had to ask, like, what's going on with this or whatever. So before he would have held it in. What are the different archetypes that's avoidant? What's the other ones?

I want to know which one you are. There's the, it depends on what school of thought. There's the avoidant. There's the detached avoidant, or dependent avoidant, and then there's the anxious, something. Which is like. Anxious attachment style. Yeah, I think they're attachment styles, not architect.

Yeah, I think attachment style. Right. When you guys decide that you're going to go on reality television, You had three kids at the time and you make that decision. What is the conversation like before you decide to accept the offer? Are the terms negotiable? No, meaning like what is the conversation between you two as a married couple? To decide to do it in the first place.

It happened so fast. I don't even remember. It wasn't that deep or long of a conversation. It was like there's an opportunity to have a journey and experience that could have a pecuniary benefit to us indirectly. And let's just see where it goes. And it was also like the thought came up and within a month and a half I had the offer in my hand. So it was like barely any, it was just like, are we going to do this or not? And when you go on, do you decide, is it a conscious decision that I'm just going to be my honest real self?

Well, actually, going back to the Bitcoin, it's like an interesting thing that happened. We had the, like, literally, we filmed the first episode with our kids at Serendipity. And they were like running around crazy and being whatever. And I got like really short with Abe. And I was like, I don't know, I was being a bitch. And later that night, he was like, you know, you're being an asshole. Talk about mushrooms. I was like, he was like, you know, you're being an asshole to me on camera, but no one's

going to know why. Like, I know why, but nobody else is going to know why. So you just look like a bitch. And he was like, if you want, we can talk about it. And that's how we decided to have the conversation about Bitcoin. So, like, I don't think that we plan necessarily what we're going to talk about. But like, he noticed that I was still angry and had this resent me because it was, we were going through it in real time.

And that was when we made the decision to like. So I think, I think what, what, if you're on a reality show, you kind of just have to roll with it. You know, you can have conversations about like, okay, we're going to talk about this or we're not going to talk about something. But like, you kind of just have to let it flow. And that's what happened that day where I was clearly still angry. And he was like, okay, we should talk about it then because you're, it's coming out on camera. What's a tall tell sign of someone that you can tell is producing themselves or self-producing? I think it's so obvious.

Tell me how, because I, why can't I, like, see that? Did you not, did you, did you notice anyone self-producing on our show? To be honest with you, now that you say that, I could look back on moments, but while I'm watching it, no. And I don't know if I'm just, I think that's also an active choice by a lot of the audiences that watch these shows. Yeah, I don't want to know. You want to know. You know what I mean? I know what you mean.

I think that eventually it comes out. So even if you don't see it in real time or you're not. noticing it while you're watching. Like, eventually it just comes out or like there's like a blogger that talks about it or whatever it is. Like, it just does because there's no way to be that self-producing and like that calculated without it coming out on a reality show that's actually real. Without giving us like someone specific, like what's it, what's a sign of it? When there's like people behind the scenes being like, let's do this, let's do that. Like you should, I told you not to do this. I told you not to do that.

It's like, you don't get to tell me what to do. So they plan what they're going to do for the camera. Is that what that means? I think from my perspective, and I'm somewhat in an audience observer because I'm not a cast member. Like I'm on it a little bit, but observing, I think it's a combination of that. And I think you can look at the body language. You can see there's a disconnect between like the smile and the eyes, little things like that that I think the audience doesn't even realize that they're picking up on.

And over the course of a season or two seasons, when you see the same performative schick, it's like, okay, that can't be real. And then, you know, they're planning behind the scenes. I don't know, but I'm sure that that happens. I think it's also like a personality type that people start to catch on to after a while. You know, it's like that performative, you know, like over the top. And then it's like after a while, you're like, What do they do? Like, this is clearly for the show. Yeah. I think that you represent New York really well.

Like when I watched your show, I felt like I was getting a look at the real New York through you. Does that make sense? I love you. That's all I ever talk about. I'm like, I'm from New York. You're not. I love that. And I also loved how you opened up about your dad. You opened up about your abortion. You were so honest. And I think that that resonates with the audience. When you decided to bring your dad on the show, was he excited about it? about it. Oh my God. He loved. He is such a natural superstar. He was such a natural superstar. So like he was just he loved it. He's so cute. I wanted to hang out with him. Everyone, all my friends were obsessed with him. Very likable. I know. And how amazing that you have those memories on the show that you can go back to. It was hard for me to watch that episode for a while. Was it been now since he's passed? About a year. And I was pregnant the whole time. It's even tougher. When you found out that you were pregnant with your fourth, were you guys surprised?

No. No, you knew. I was. I was shocked. I knew the moment we can see it. Okay. So did you. I think I, we usually know.

You know the moment. I know what you're talking about. You feel like that was the one. You guys can feel the moment. It just feels like that was the one. We were in Aspen. Okay. We had a lot of fun.

We were having sex. And it was like, I just came inside of her. And it was a big, there was love and there was a connection and a spark that you felt too. And I knew at that moment that we had conceived a kid. It's actually happened every single time. What is it like with four children? We're in LA. Do you want to go over our experience? We were at the Beverly Hills Hotel. This is the real story. I just got my body back on that day. That's what happened. I took a video of myself. I was looking like, crem della crem at my goal weight. Literally that day, I was like, wow, I'm going to wear red.

That's how you know. If I were red, I'm feeling good. It's not black. I'm feeling good. This motherfucker gets me pregnant the day I got my body back. That's the hardest part, honestly. It's insane. I'm not having a baby, yeah. It's like you, it's like you knew.

Well, listen, because you were giving off like you were, you know, you're feeling you're saying. I think it's like a charging bowl because you were so hot. Yeah. I'm charging bull. Look at this charging bull. I don't blame them. In the red with that.

No, and you know, like you guys both have kids. And so we got a night away. We were in a hotel. There was nobody around. We were going to a birth. We had a couple of drinks. I was like, yeah. So much fun.

For sure. It was like that. It's weird too when you get pregnant and you've been pregnant before, you realize that there's this a long journey ahead. So as happy as you are, it's also emotional. Very. Do you know what I mean? 100%.

Is that how it feels with the fourth two? You know what? Oddly, this last time, it was just like I didn't even, I just was like, oh, I like, I had to disassociate. Yeah. You know what I mean. I know what you're saying. My third was the hardest.

Why? Hardest. I gained the most weight. It took me a year to lose it. I don't know why. I don't know why. I couldn't tell you. It was by far the hardest.

My fourth, I was just like, I'm not changing what I eat. Yeah. This baby is not doing this to me. So like I literally ate the exact same way as I did before. I worked out like crazy. They were like, oh, you shouldn't be an SLT. Like, you know, you're two weeks out. I'm like, fuck that.

I'm doing SLT. Like, I'm not like, I'm not. Like, I was not messing around this time. That's how I play the sushi. I just, I just, oysters, I was popping oysters. By the way, I think they're healthy. You know what? It's zinc source.

You know what? I think. You know, it also is a good zinc source. What? I do. What? What? Every guy in the room knows what you're saying.

What's a good zinc source? Michael will show you later. Oh, I've had enough. I am semened out. There's semen coming out of my ears. I am. This is why we waited five years. Cold season's coming up. Cold and flu season.

We're just trying to protect you guys from doing sick. Enough is enough. Ghostbusters. So four is the number. That's it. Yes. You're done. That's it. That's it. Dave doesn't feel done. I'm done.

I would love for you. I would love for you. I'm not getting of a sec to me. I would love it. What do you do about that? If you're not getting of a sec to me, I talk about this. My told me to go by condoms. I'm happy to talk about it.

Because I've heard a lot of opinions. I would love to hear your opinions because I also don't want one. I heard that there was, and this could be a straight Instagram myth. You know, we all get these things now in the health space. But they were saying that there was an increased risk in either Alzheimer's or dementia by like a pretty significant percentage for men that have got of it. Wow. And also potentially, and again, someone may debunk this, medical people are young, potential prostate cancer issues. Wow.

And to me, like, he's going to use this for. later on, Aaron. Oh, yeah. But the only way that I can rationalize any of this is that you're maybe inhibiting a natural function of the body, which I think in any case is maybe not great. This is like, you're trying to make an excuse not to get a vasectomy. Long story short into Canada, I will not be getting a vasectomy. I won't either.

Listen, I get it. The truth is I do get it. I feel like we're getting, because it's, we need a ship of that, but it's neutered. And I get it. I get it. I don't want my life force. But you just have to use condoms. So that's, it is what it is.

Because eventually, we won't have to use. condoms regularly and it'll be that much better. When I'm 38, dude, it's going to be a long time. What are you trying to say? I'm going to have like menopause soon. Careful. We'll move to another segment here. Michael should really get a brand deal with bear skin condoms.

That's the kind he uses. Oh, that's what I hear. Yeah, because they're so thin. I was talking to AI the other day. What is this? The thinnest utility that will get the job done but protect everyone. And I got the thin ones. We got those ones.

We got the magnum, like the bear skin. Magnavon. I love how he threw the magna. I don't even mean. I swear, I didn't really like that. I swear to go out. I'm just picturing the brand. No, there's also another one.

Sure, Abe. There's also another one I heard called skin S-K-Y-N is what I've heard. But maybe I need a number. I've heard lambskin is the best. We've had that. Yeah, they're very expensive. They smell bad. I like the old pull-out method.

I feel like that worked in the old and days. It does work. Yeah, the pull-out method works. Yeah, but then you can't come together. Okay. Oh, Jesus Christ. Name of the pod. Yeah, the name of the pod.

We all got to plug something. But I actually meant it in the literal sense, too. You can't come together. Okay, but you do not want to get a vasectomy because you feel it neuters your life force. Yes. And there's another component. I feel like you lose a little bit of psychological leverage in the relationship. But not really.

How would you know? Well, explain that. Explain what you're talking about. I can get what you're saying. Explain that. This is going to sound like not fully what I'm meaning. to say, but I'm going to say it anyway. There's a sense of like we're in a fill-a-long home.

Like we're going to die altogether. But there's, I think, a psychological push and pull in a relationship. And one of the things that men have is the- You can impregnate more people. You can impregnate more people, theoretically. Little threats. The way he thinks. Oh, you know why I knew what he was going to say?

I'm not the only one who thinks like that kind of as a girl. Like, I like to know what my leverage is in the relationship. so I understand what you're saying. You're saying that it's like, better hold on to this guy because his equipment still works and there's other opportunities to... And kind of it's fun to be like, as a woman, I cut it off. And by the way, everyone, Abe said that, not me.

Abe will get in trouble. I get what you're saying, though. It's a little bit of like leverage. Yeah. This is a subtle thing. A little power. Yeah. I need to look.

I have to balance it somehow. Look at her. How do you guys think about marriage and partnership? That's a broad question. I don't even know where to begin. I feel like we're pretty partnered. Yeah, like we're, it's weird because we're life partners and we're business partners. Like you guys, it's like a lot, it's a lot more than just a marriage.

There's like a lot that goes into working together and having a lot of kids and being in a relationship. I mean, I'd be curious to know what your guys' experience too is because we've talked about this where the obvious pros are, you know, share ideas, you're in bed, going to sleep, and just talking. Like, a lot of great ideas come in there. And there's a natural kind of flow between your professional and personal life. But then there's the potential downside of the dynamics where it's like, for example, like I'm the CEO of the company. She's, we're co-founders, equal co-founders. But sometimes as CEO, I have to give a directive. And she's like, you don't give me directives, though. I'm not going to listen to you ever. Beyond that, though, I think that, yes, it is true. The thing that I think is

really interesting to do so. With your balls. No. The thing that I think is really interesting about working together and being in a relationship is that if you are two people that love business and love to work, which I don't think is everybody, but if it happens to be that you both love working so much, you can make so much more of your time when you have a business together. And like there's so much upside when it works because it really can work. You know what I mean? 100%. So. Yeah. I mean, we talk about this all the time. I think one, the working dynamic in a relationship is way harder to figure out than anything else because of like there's the different power dynamics, how things work, how they don't work, who's got what say, who doesn't know what

they say. I think the other thing that's really difficult and which would never work, for either of us as, you know, previous relationships or something like that, what he was says like, okay, you've got to stop talking about this thing at this time. Like that, I think that's, that wouldn't work. One hot, we talk about that actually on the podcast a lot. It's, it's a natural evolution. Like, sometimes you're not talking about it. Sometimes you are.

Sometimes, like, I don't like the restrictive element. The other thing. I can see the why it's hard for, for, like, say a man is working all day long at the office and he's running shit and then he comes home and the woman's been doing her thing, whatever that is. Let's say she's a stay-at-home mom. I could see how it's hard for both of them because they're in such different worlds to connect. I'll be like a perfect example. We've been doing this show for close to a decade. We've done 900 plus episodes interviewed 800 people. Well, thank you. But the reason I'm bringing it up is imagine if one of us only was having all of those interactions

with all of these interesting people through all these years. And then you go home and the other person hasn't been part of that. I would feel left out. She would probably feel left out. And we get to do this together and I think we're having all these great conversations and learning together. And I feel like it would be very difficult in our lives to come home and only one of us had those experiences. Totally. I love that point. Totally agree. But I think there's also on the other side of it, and I understand what you're saying about like if one person is out there working and then they come home and it's like they can connect. But on the other side of it, it's like your safe space, right? You want to come home and be able to vent about what's going on or what you did that day. And if you can't do that because the person's going to feel left out or

upset, that's kind of like a double-edged sword, I feel. So like you almost would, I would imagine that you'd want to encourage that kind of communication, because otherwise, then the person is just feeling like not even involved in that person's life at all because they can't talk about their business life at home. One of my favorite things to do is tell my kids that we are having chocolate water. It's a little trick. So chocolate water is paleo Valley's bone broth protein and chocolate. What I do is I froth it with a frother in some water. I add some ice to it and it literally tastes like they're drinking chocolate milk, but there's 20 grams of protein in it. I do this too. I do 40 grams. I do two scoops and it's a great post workout, but my kids love this protein powder. And I can understand

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studies, and it showed its positive impacts on liver enzyme levels. Ready to get it. your liver the support it deserves, head to daily dose.co slash skinny or intercode skinny and get 35% off your first subscription. Your body does so much for you. Let's do something for it. That's D-O-S-E-D-A-I-L-Y dot C-O-Sash skinny for 35% off your first month's subscription. What is you guys' strategy when it comes to having four kids and running a business as successful as you do? What's the tip, the takeaway? systems and organization and asking for help. This is something I learned a year and a half ago to almost two years ago now, getting more help, which I did not ever think I would have an assistant. Like, I don't know why, like a personal assistant. I never, I don't know. I just was like, you know, I had people that worked for me at work and they would help me with certain things like in our business, but I never thought I'd have a go-to person. It has changed my life. And also Abe, like, Abe runs a law firm. Like, he has a successful. practice. He's now hiring people and he's like, it's changed my life. Yeah. And that's a,

I think it's a big step for people who own businesses that run their own businesses because I'm a little bit of a control freak. I like things the way I do. You kind of have to, when you're growing, you've got to give the raise. You've got to delegate. And once you start doing it, there's like all these other opportunities and all these other things that you can grow into. And it's very exciting, actually. I also think when you have help at home, I think so many people lie about the help that they have at home, you see influencers and celebrities, not being honest. The reason I have, in what way? Like, they'll just, they won't admit they have a nanny. Not in my world. On Bravo, they're like, I have 17 babies. Yeah, a lot of, on Instagram, I could see that.

They don't, they're not honest, or I'll give you another one, a night nurse. When I told people I had a night nurse, people were like, I think some were shocked that they didn't know that that happens. and the other half were like, thanks for being honest because people lie about that. I don't think people are shocked. I got nasty comments. I think people are shocked that you have it or that you've done it. I think people are shocked that you share and you're open about it. Because a lot of people just don't are not open about it.

I think that having help gives me more time with my kids. Like I really think about charity. Well, there is a, there is a gender dynamic here where I promise you, Abe and I never get questioned by our guy, friends or girls if we have help. If we have a nanny. I work the exact same amount as him. And you probably work the same amount. But everyone wants to ask the woman that it's very interesting. I look at his help, like I get to spend more time with my kids.

If I have help doing laundry, then I can be more present. It's necessary. For me, it's necessary. And I'm so grateful. I'm so controversial. Oh, my God. You should see the comments on Instagram people get sent. Oh, I had.

Well, it's controversial, I think, because, listen, it's a luxury to be able to obviously have help and resources. Absolutely. Absolutely. And not everyone is able to have that. And so I think it's controversial because sometimes people might be upset if somebody has it and they either can't or it's not available to them. So I think like it, you know, there's that. But that's in everything, right? But help could also be your mom or your sister. Or it could be free help. It's just asking for help. Yeah. Exactly. I think it's just like any sort of help. But when I, so I never had a baby nurse, not on purpose. Just I didn't have one with the first two. We were also, I was like 20. Right. I was like 27 when I had my, we were young and I don't think we even had enough money to spend on like a baby nurse. We had a nanny. I also felt weird about having somebody lived in our home. Well, you got used to it real quick. He was like, is she leaving?

And then the third was COVID baby. So we were home and we couldn't even have anybody. But this last time, an angel. Truly, an angel, like we brought her back. We asked her to come back. She left and we were like, no, no, no, we're not done with you. Please, please, please come back. And I got so many comments of people being like, like, I don't know.

I said something nice about. How about you try spending time with your baby? How about you did it? like shaving me. And I was shocked. I didn't even think twice about posting her. I actually got her like a bunch of jobs because I thought she was so amazing. I was like, let me share her with the world. But people were so nasty. So I can't even imagine what you got. It's like crazy. I think too, like for me, I was, I'm working during the day and to perform at the level that I want to perform at, like you need sleep. I would fire every single employee that Dear Media has before I would let go of my child help.

Sorry. Every single one. Because here's the thing. It is such a huge help and for what we do together. I mean, we work at the same time. We're doing this show. It would not be possible to do anything without it. We need help.

And when we first, we had our first child, none of our family was there. And so we were the first one of our friend group to have it. So like, we need all the help we can get. We were also the first. My friends used to call me child bride and teen mom. But no, but for sure. I mean, but here's the thing. I'm, like, I'm, I am shameless about talking about it because what people don't realize,

like, there's also people that seek out these professions and, like, and they do this for a living. And so you're also, like, supporting the economy in a sense. Yes. Our nanny is like another mom, I think. She's, she's like my mom sometimes. She like takes care of me. She's like, did you? I was going to say this, what you just said, remind me of kind of your initial question to tie together,

is, you know, when you have four kids or even three or whatever, it's quite different when you're a married couple working together because having help enables you to do the business and you're taking out a lot of risk by being an entrepreneur to begin with. Right. But the irony is you actually end up being able to, you spend more time with your kids because the fact that you work together, you don't have to be in an office to be productive. You're at home and you're still able to be productive on the other end of it and be with your kids.

And so a big part of it is including your kids just in your day-to-day life, even if it's business. It's like yesterday, come upstairs and Aaron's. So we moved into it. Let me give context. We moved into a townhouse. And we have two different apartments that are part of the townhouse. And the lower floor, we turned into our Mescalum office. So we have our whole staff on the lower floor.

I'm going to need an invite to the Mescal office. You have to come for Shabbat. I was going to say. I would love to come for Shabbat. You had me at Mescal. Well, it's here. It arrived. Good.

What is it? Tuesday and the middle of the day, perfect. I know, should we bring it off? Yeah, sure. Bring it in. I'll do a little sip. Okay. Well, we, it's a little bit.

Bring in that mess call. Anyway, the, Abe has a private office downstairs. So he comes to, like, moving here also really changed our lives because we're able to work where our kids live. So your office is below your house. Yeah. It's like part of the one building.

That's so cool. And you were going to say you came in and your kids were there? So I came up. It was the middle of the day. I just came up to just get a bite. to eat. And Aaron's like on Zooms and I'm working and baby Jack is in his walker just hanging out. Just that, that, that, that, that, that. He's there. She's hanging out with him even though it's the middle of workday. So it's just the irony of people saying, oh, spent time with your kids.

This is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. The entrepreneur does give you a lot of fluidity on how you can bring your kids. Like we'll bring our kids if we're podcasting here for a week. You can be a little bit more malleable and flexible, which is great. Yeah, what I tell people about that, though, because there's probably, there's certain people that are listening that's like easy, sounds good for you. There's tradeoffs, right? Like being an entrepreneur, you are able to set some of your own schedule and work the hours you need to work, but you also carry an immense risk and stress and stress and stress. And, you know, like, if I work in an organization, you obviously it's a little bit more restrictive around, you know, the work setting and seeing your kids if you're clocking in an office or whatever. But you know the hours and you know exactly like, what the input versus the output, meaning like you show up and you know what you're signing for. Like, you're a salary. Yeah, as much as I would love to hope that everything we're doing will be successful, like things can go wrong and go belly up tomorrow.

Yep. And I think that's, that's the tradeoff. And so where I can meet people with empathy and understand their perspective until you've also sat in the seat of someone who carries that kind of risk, it's just a different, it's a different way you have to think, right? There's tradeoffs is what I'm saying. A hundred percent. I think you're being a little too nice about it.

I think people need to be a little bit more empathetic to entrepreneurs who take on that risk. Because nobody talks about that side of it. Nobody sees that side of it. They just see what's on the Instagram and social media. You were venting last night about all the stresses. Yeah. It's like there's a lot of fucking stress that goes into running and building a business. It's not like everything's great every day.

Like things happen on an hour to hour basis sometimes. It's a real grind. Especially when you're in the beginning stages. And that risk, nobody cares about that. They just care about what they think they know. and I would encourage anybody listening who thinks like it sees only one side of it. Try to put yourself in the mindset of somebody who's taking on that risk, who lives with taking on that risk and is not guaranteed a paycheck.

They work hard for it. And, you know. Yeah, I know every single day I wake up that there is with 100% certainty a problem in the company that I'm going to have to do. It's not like, oh, maybe there'll be a, like, I know 100%. You should have seen me yesterday with the problem. And when people, I'm at like, you know, you get better at it. But like people will bring, like, just pick on dear media because we all, you know, we produce your show.

The color of the studio needs to be changed immediately. Lauren said the color of a studio. Because it looks like foreskin. Yeah, okay. Well, she said it looks like a four skin. Well, you don't know. It's kind of like a. It's like a.

Does it depend on the skin color of the person who's. Oh, really? You know what it's like, have you ever seen a naked mole rat? That's the color of four skin. That's what I was picturing. I'm circumcumcestal. so I guess I wouldn't know. Oh, yeah.

So, we're really getting to know each other today. So, no, but I just, like, and every time somebody, like, I wake up, like, this is, and the reason I'm able to kind of like. Orskine studio. Can you stop talking about, horse skin? You're throwing me off my train of thought here. I'm like, every time, the reason I don't get so stressed about it anymore is because I'm just constantly stressed if that makes.

Like, I know that there's an issue. Right. And I know, as soon as I solve that, tomorrow, there's going to be another issue. And I think like the dynamic for people listening is entrepreneurs are the ones that are setting out to deal with nothing but problem solving all day long. All day long. And that's, I think that's the mindset that you have to have. Some people like that. Some people don't.

If you don't like that, no problem. There's nothing. Like I know a lot of people that are in great organizations that are not at the CEO level that make a hell of a lot more income than me and do much better. And, you know, so I think that's the dynamic. So yeah, being nice about it, but also. I don't really have a lot of sympathy for people that whine about like the circumstances of entrepreneurs because you have to take on too much risk. A hundred percent.

Like a spice tolerance, the more spicy because you get more of a tolerance. The same thing with stress where you know, you're just like, okay, it's the normal day. And also you have people that like rely on you to like exist and that's really challenging. It's a lot of pressure. Like you have to take care of people's salaries and like make sure that they can pay for their lives. I think this conversation is important because entrepreneurs. has been so glamorized and romanticized.

So glamorized. And yeah, sure, there's glamorous parts of it, but I also think it's important to talk about the stuff behind the scenes as well. No, I'll give you, I mean, we've done this show, like I said for a while, and there's a lot of wild shit that we would say and do on the show. But sometimes now, because of that responsibility to the organization and other people, they'll call me up and say, hey, like, you got to tone it down because it could affect. Not that I like, I'm still pretty out there,

but, like, I have to be thoughtful because there's people that are reliant on this company and me like shepherding it in the right direction if that makes sense. Yeah, totally. Trust me, if I didn't have to rely on those, if they didn't have that, if that responsibility didn't exist, you know, this thing would have going off the rails years ago. But I have to just be more careful now. Yeah, totally. I appreciate that. What are the systems that you guys have for your kids? You mentioned systems. Do you have like, you said routines, too. Do you have a specific routine? Looking to me, right? I wanted to see if you had anything. Of course I'm looking to you. Do you organize all the routines and systems?

Is that you? I want to hear yours first. And I feel like mine, they're going to be synergistic, but I think you're, I would think you're more like Michael. Oh, interesting. Yeah. Are you, you're the routine system person? No.

There's always one in the relationship, I think. I'm like a traditions, like, weekly tradition, like kind of person. I don't, I'm not strict on systems. That's why I want to hear what you have to say. So I'm, I'm pretty relaxed in terms of like it doesn't have to be perfect. That being said, the systems that I have. have in place are the weekly schedule is up on a bulletin board.

Every Sunday, my assistant prints it out and she puts it up on the bullet board in English and Spanish and my schedule as well. So that is one of our nannies. Abe's mom is actually from Cuba, so we speak Spanish in our house as well. You might have to text me a picture of this so I can do this. I will. I'll send it to it's amazing. It's changed everything.

Like even today, my nanny was like, oh, what time did they leave? And I was like right there. Yeah. It's right there. So that has been amazing. Also, I created a really good, I think, weekly bedtime routine for them. Okay. Which I have past, you know, a week or so been very strict about and it's really changed their day. What is that?

They come home. They have like a point system. And if they get all the points, it's 10 points for that night or that day, whatever. And basically they come home, they do their homework. They unpack their bags. They brush their teeth. They take a shower. and they're upstairs playing by 7 o'clock, which is early for my kids.

My son is 11. He doesn't go to sleep till 9. But they're playing. They play with each other. Then it's books. And they're all in bed by like 7.45 and they need to be asleep by 8. And that's it. There's no question anymore.

It used to be like, oh, 8, 30, 8, 15. And it's a problem the next day. I mean, my kids are also like Layla's 8, Levi's 11. Like, if they don't get enough sleep, which they can, they can very easily shift to like a 9, 9.30 Because they're a little bit older. They're not good kids at school. Like, they're pissed off. Like they're cranky.

Yeah. They're also really mean in the morning. And they're me, Lay, we're mostly talking about my daughter. She's very intense. She needs rest. Beauty sleep. So that's been a system. And that's really it, but it works.

And also I'm really good about scheduling the meals, like meal prep. And do you prep the meals or does someone else prep them? Because you're cooking, I feel. And being, in, you know, the sense of being honest here, like we've talked about, I actually hired a second person when we moved. And so the second person, is now really the housekeeper and my nanny is an excellent cook and she's been prepping all the meals. I just don't have time.

If you're cooking, what are you cooking for? Shabbat. Okay. And is that every Friday? Did that, is that what inspired the cookbook to begin with? Yeah. Okay. Because for me, Shabbat and for you was just something we did. It wasn't a big deal. It wasn't really thought about. It was just like Friday night, you know you're home. We're having dinner with your family.

Like that was it. And really when I got on the show and started getting on TV, people were very, like, surprise. Every Friday night you do this. I loved it. And it's every Friday night and it's without fail. And so like my house is a revolving door. Like literally my siblings will just pop in, have lunch, go home. Like it's just people are always in and out. And I just felt like I wanted to share easy hosting with people because it's so nice. It's so nice to be together. How many siblings do you have again? Or younger. And he's got five. Oh my gosh. It's a big family. Big family. I bet there's dynamics and twists and turns. with that. Oh, yeah. You guys might not be done having kids now that I'm hearing of I know. No, no, we're done. I'm done. I'm done. I'm not saying we're not done. Well, I'm done.

I'm done. Maybe with your next person, with your life force that you have still. Like, you're zinc that's packed up. I'm done. So if we come on a Friday to New York, we can come. Please, bring your kids. Absolutely. I would love for you guys. Bring your kids. Ooh. Really? Yes, because all of our kids will play. And it'll be great. Okay. It's actually sometimes easier when you bring the kids when other people are kids. Way easier.

It is. Oh, 100%. Leave my, they'll leave us alone. She's a date. She loves being like the mommy to little, the younger kids. It's her favorite. It's her favorite thing to do.

I bet she's really good with the baby. She's amazing. We woke up one time. That was the craziest thing. Okay, so we went to a, I just let me tell it. I'll tell it fast. We went to a wedding and we both woke up and we looked at each other. It was a nine a.

And we were like, the baby. You know that feeling? Like, never. Never. This night we were at Friends Wedding, so we're out late. We woke up 9 a.m. That's late. The baby wakes up at like 6.30.

We were like, oh, my God, the baby. So we run downstairs. Layla had a sleepover with her girlfriend. She's laying in our pullout with her friend, my younger son Elijah, and the baby. And I'm like, is he okay? She's like, yeah, I changed him. I fed him. I changed his clothes.

And now we're just hanging out. I'm like. She made the bottle. She did all. She was happy. There was unbelievable. Oh, my gosh. They were just like all laying.

a bed laughing. It was so cute. That's amazing. Because I think Jordan Peterson, maybe it was him, was saying that that's what starts to happen. It's like when you have multiple kids like that, the kids start to help raise the other kids. So you're not like, when you jump to that with four kids as you have, it's not just like you guys doing all the work with all the kids, the kids help.

Yeah. Totally. And it's important to empower them to help. Because then they feel really included and want to help and it makes them feel circular, but empowered. And capable. And capable. And capable. Gary Vee was just on the show and he,

he talked about how important it is as a parent to make sure that your children know that you feel they're capable. I say this all the time. There's a story that I have that I tell people because I feel like American parents are very helicopter, especially a lot of my friends. And sometimes I'm like, just leave your kid alone. They're fine. Levi was going actually up for Shabbat dinner at my dad's.

And he was like, can I go in the elevator, remember? I think he was like four or five, like little. but not too little. Like he knew what he was doing. My dad lived on the second floor. And I'm like, sure, you can do it by yourself. And he was like, really? He was so shocked that I would let him do it.

And he did it. And I remember him walking in and feeling like he was lit up. He was like, I went in the elevator. I pushed the button. Like those little moments are not a big deal to us, but they're huge for them because they feel like they can do things. They're independent. I think Malcolm Gladwell wrote about it in one of the books.

I think the tipping point. He was saying that when your kid is 25 and you're still paying for their car in their apartment, it's a dog whistle to them that they're not capable. Totally. I thought that was really interesting. I agree. Well, he was saying he gets a lot of messages and DMs from kids that are in that situation. And when it first started happening, he kind of like threw him off.

But then he realized that the parents are one enabling, but also creating something where the kid feels less self-worth. Like the parent doesn't believe in them. That makes complete sense. I've thought about it that way. I've thought about it in the enabling sense and how if you don't have the incentive to make something of yourself. But that's interesting. I'm sure that's a part of it too. Well, I think it's so hard.

I mean, I think about this a lot. Our kids are young, but you want to, you work hard so that you can do everything to prepare and also take care of your children and give them a great life. But at some point, you kind of, one of the most heartbreaking things I heard is like your job as a parent is to create an individual that one day doesn't need you. Totally. But yeah. How do I make a good chashuka? How do I say it? Chuck Shuka. What? Chukha. It's honestly. Keep up and watch housewise. It's so easy. Okay. How do I make the good shushuka? You never have, did you've had one? No. I've never had one. No.

Are you saying it wrong? She's saying it wrong. Maybe you come for brunch. Chuck Shooka. I said it right. Chuck Shuka. Okay. Shok shuka. It's so easy. You saute onions, garlic. Okay. You cook it down, then you put tomatoes, fresh tomatoes. Okay. And then you cook that down. It takes a while. It's tedious.

Okay. And you can add a little bit of tomato sauce if you want. And then you throw eggs in. And then you can either put feta on it or parsley, whatever. You can top it with anything. What is everyone talking about? That sounds amazing. Delicious.

So what was the problem with the Shotshuka? Well, well. Like what were they mad about? That sounds delicious. The Persian version of Shotschukkah. Well, Jenna didn't want to eat it before we would. worked out, fine. And then Sae doesn't like baked eggs.

Like, I don't know. There was a problem that whole weekend. It was a problem. That's why I don't go on girls trips, Aaron. And I was hosting. I'm like, next time we're not doing that in my house. That's what I'm saying. I've never been more lost in an episode. Did you watch it? No, I don't. You watch. He watched. He doesn't

watch it like me. He peripherals. I watch it as she's watching. Yeah. You know? And then I'll be like, what's going on? Well, I made a watch Miami the other day. He was actually into it. It's good. I don't watch any, I watch our show, but I don't watch any reality TV. Miami's good. So we learned a long time ago. Miami's good. I go to like, if I'm going to watch TV.

Yeah, but you watch, you're into Miami. But that's what happens. Because if you're in bed watching, then you're like, you see her going Haitian mortician. Like, it was, that was great. I got a really weird thing. She, Michael, she cheated with a Haitian mortician who stole her coffee. She had to buy him a coffee machine. She had to buy him a coffee machine to shut him up.

You cannot write that. Amazing. Just amazing. I'm like, how do we get that on that? Yeah, we need to get that. But with you paired that, with you in the Haitian mortician mortician story, that would be perfect. I would love it. My thing is, I have a weird thing where I kind of don't watch, but now that I know you guys personally, I'm going to watch.

I'm going to watch everything. And then I'm going to get mad at people that are mean to on the show. And I get really invested. Yeah, that's how we are with Meredith and Seth from Seth. I do that with everyone that I meet that goes on these shows. Now I'll be like, I got to watch. I got to catch up. And then I'm going to like make enemies for you that are not.

Abe and Seth actually have the same birthday. We discovered this at dinner with them. He's a good vibe. He's a nice guy. They're good people. I feel like you guys are on the same frequency. He's like he's in on the joke. Yeah.

Yes. Do you know what I mean? Yes. It's very well said. Yeah. It's, I mean, there's a whole other episode, but it's a weird experience being a man on a housewife show. I'm sure. What is that like?

You live in this liminal space where you're not a cast member. and they don't like but you're on it and they're using your name, image, and likeness. And there's an indirect benefit and you want to be supportive of your wife, but you're still exposed yourself to all the shit that people say about you because they think that they saw something that you said something that's obviously not the context. And then you see articles that are written into tabloids and you're like, I'm not even getting paid for this. Like you're fucking tabloid shit.

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So many. Are there? The first season, I said as a joke that I'd fuck other women. He was so upset. Wait, I don't remember that. You said you fuck other women? Because we were talking about how Jessel and her husband hadn't had sex for like two years. Was that true?

And I was like, what would you do if that happened? He was like, I'd fuck other women. But he was kidding. But where are you doing? Well, hold on. That's a good question. I mean, I'm going to be honest. It's a long time.

Well, here's the thing. If I didn't get sex for two years, Michael, I might, you know, it's a long time. That's a Sahara Desert. Here's the difference. That's what she called it when they had sex with it. This was the nuance that was not captured on the show. Okay.

Which is if Aaron, God forbid, was like really sick and we couldn't have sex because she was ill, that would be a completely different scenario where if it was two years of she just didn't want to have sex with me because we're not connecting. It's two completely different situations. then these articles would come out like even if his wife was sick with cancer you fuck cheat on her and i don't care like now if i was sick michael would be like you still have a hand does your mouth work i mean listen i do you eat zinc to get better i think you know we talk to a lot of you know relationship people on this podcast like therapists like sex is a big part of being an intimate

relationship. And I think when the sex goes, a lot of other things go because you lose a lot of that human connection. Absolutely. You know, not passing judgment on doing, but if you're in a relationship where you're not having sex any longer, you know. Well, what we didn't know, just to, just to like, clarify for Jessel, what we didn't know is that she was going through a really rough IVF journey. We were not aware of that. And like, so obviously it made sense after the fact. But regardless, like, sex is a huge part of relationship. And I feel like it's, like, I know people are talking about it now and they're all these sex therapists, but I feel like it's not even talked about enough, like how important it is in marriage is. Like, I have, I know a lot of people that just stop

having sex. Like, they just don't have sex. And what does they say the reason is? They're busy. They're like, this one goes to bed at a different time. Like, there's just always something, you know? I think a part of it too is just like when you can, when you first connect with whoever, the person that becomes your spouse, there's, it's like, what's that foundation? And And for a lot of people, I think they probably just end up settling and they get into routine and they kind of just like go through the motions and they lose the spark, the fun. And I think a big part of it is that they individually, people forget that they're not a dependent.

It can't be codependent. You have to be interdependent. You have to maintain your own independence while existing in an interdependent relationship, but you can't forget about yourself and like having fun yourself and doing things for yourself and giving your spouse the space. the space to do that for themselves. I also think couples stop having fun together. And that's a big problem.

That's a big problem. It's a big problem. I think that that lies in the fact that they stop liking each other. Probably. I don't think it's about love. I think when you stop liking the person that you're with, the fun goes to. Yep. I also go to wear the egg though.

Right. Yeah. Well, you're right. But you could love someone and not like them. Yeah, but think about how many times people have been disconnected and don't really like each other. And then they like go out, take Molly, like for old times sake. And they're like, I love you. This is who I married.

Okay. I'm dead. Just go out and take Molly and all your problems. You remember the connection. We have a business. Exactly. We have a sex business. We need to go out and take some Molly.

I don't know if you know this. We have a sex business. You do? And we're going to get you. Perfect. Put in my Shoshuka. Shut the Shoshika up. Sprink on.

Wait, what is your sex business? I had no idea. So we have a sex business that will get you a bunch of products. It's called Woo. Less vibrator you'll ever use. But we started it a long time ago. And our business partner, Weston,

who runs the company, makes a really good point all the time. And he says that, because he talks about sex openly all the time running that company, he says that people work on their personal finances. They work on their health.

They work on their mindset. They work on their business. They get all these coaches and do all these things. But they don't do anywhere near the same kind of work on themselves when it comes to their sex life. Totally.

But sex is like a driving factor for relationships and happiness and, you know, all sorts of things. But we put like, it's like the thing that gets pushed off to the side and then we wonder why we struggle in relationships. It's like nobody's talking about it. How much of it do you think is societal? In like a cultural sense of shaming or people being growing up, feeling ashamed to talk about it?

Well, I think that there's a lot of that. I also think that we have now just come through a time when there was a lot of, you know, devious and, you know, predatory behavior exposed by a lot of like, you know, terrible individuals. And so there's, there's a little bit of, you know, that out there if you want to be careful and respectful. But, you know, Scott Galloway is coming on later today and he just wrote a new book about, you know, raising young men. And one of his big things is that, like, young men are no longer approaching women because of some of those. I've heard this. I agree with them. And that basically young,

men and women's sexuality should be celebrated because again, it's a driving factor for a lot of things, but we're losing some of that. Humanity's procreation. I think that it's crazy that people feel shame to talk about sex when it's, that's why we're here. It's literally the way that we continue populating the world. I mean, I think that it does take though people talking about it to make people more comfortable with it. And we do have to get you the coconut oil loop because you can have a massage. You can eat it like it suck it, fuck it. So it's not like some gross massage and then you don't want to touch the, you know what I'm saying? Yes. We have a massage table at home. Yeah. Oh, oh. That's for the masseuse. I'm not. I'm not the masseuse.

You know, but it never lasts with you. I'm like, can you give me a massage? I'm like, can you give me a massage? I'm like, it's like two seconds. I said I wanted a massage first though. I'll give you five minutes. Like four, three. That's nothing. That's on a massage. I get an hour long massages. You know what Michael asked me to do? Michael, literally, while I'm having sex with him, we'll be like, can you give me a head rub? I'm like, what are you? I'm like, I have a fucking optimist. You're living in the future.

It enhances the experience. Does it really? All the time. Try it tonight. I've never heard of this. Listen. He's going to ask tonight. I'm going out to me.

By the way, it could work both ways. You just lose load. Yeah. But no, I mean, listen, I think, like, we. Michael, guys everywhere opening up their chakras to what you just said, You can get a head massage. You do have a chakra up there too. Yeah, and look at his hairline.

It's because I've been massaging his head as the whole time. It's natural because that's natural. It's natural. It's very natural. The TikTok people. They call him a Lego head. Yeah, they call me Lego head. No.

What is that why? It's a bunch of patchy, jealous. It looks like a Lego that clicks on. I'm jealous of it. I'm over here having sex with someone with Lego hair, massaging it so it can grow. But you know, I think like with everything else, Like something, we tend to stigmatize things that we are uncomfortable leaning into.

But whenever I see a stigma, I'm always thinking like, there's probably a, like, it's probably important, right? Yeah, that's a good point. There's a lot of shame around certain, like, you know, there's a lot of shame around money. There's a lot of shame around sex. There's a lot of shame around like being vulnerable. Think about like years ago, like you couldn't talk about depression, anxiety, mental health issues.

And so I think, you know, one of the benefits of doing things like this is you get to just show people that these are human issues that we all have to deal with, right? But leaning out of these conversations, I don't think helps anyone. Again, everyone's having sex. Everybody wants to have better sex. That's the tagline of the company, like, even better sex. That's like, that's the whole thing. Sex can also be great for repair. Like, when he annoys the fuck out of me. Yeah. We had to fight the other night at dinner and we're like the next day. I'm like, cool. Make up sex. Yeah. Right? That's what we're talking about. Sometimes I love a little fight for no reason. Yeah. For a little match. All the time. Look at. And by the way.

We talked about this a lot in relationships where you're having a stale period. I think a lot of pressure gets put on. Sometimes just be a little transactional about it. Look, we haven't had sex in three weeks. That's able to do that. It's happening tonight. I don't want to hear it. I'm like,

and then he's like, you liked it. See, I told you. As you always do. Their personalities do change after it. Fully. Sometimes I'm like, it's actually wild.

I can tell that when it's like been too long. He's like crabby. He's rude. What did I say the other day? I go, what is wrong with you? And then you solved it in two seconds. No, I had a, so I had a baby and you can't have sex for six weeks. And then I had a procedure where I got my vagina tight.

You did? Like I got it stitched up. Oh, yeah. With Dr. NYC. I know. I talked about it on the show. And then it was another six weeks that you have to wait. It's tough.

But your dentist probably gave you clearance. But also. But also. Are you going to do a mommy makeover? I'm going to do a lift. You're going to do a lift, not a boob, drop, a lift. So I kind of want to just do the lift,

but I feel like everyone keeps saying you're going to have to get an implant. I really don't want one. The thing about the lift is I'm going to tell you this, is the lift, when you lift them up, it makes them look smaller. I'm okay. I don't care about that.

You're okay. Yeah, I don't need a big boot. I don't care about the breast size. Think about it if it's, if it's like big and then you're lifting it up. I'm okay with the small boob. I just, I just worry that it's going to still be deflated. I don't think so with a lift. I hope not.

I don't know. I lost, I used to have double Ds. I was the girl with big boobs. Double Ds. Double Ds. Legit. Legit. I had huge boobs.

They ruined my boobs. Because breastfeeding. Because they're breastfeeding. Why do people say it doesn't ruin your boobs? They're fucking lying. They're lying. from what I hear. From what I hear?

I realize that's you know what, though? What makes me feel good is that with the boobs that, so the boobs like, let's say, breastfeeding ruins them, your balls are getting saggier and saggier and saggier by the day because you're getting older.

And think about it, it's just gravity sitting there. Boles are gross. 100% accurate. So, balls are just gross. When you guys get your balls lifted, talk to us about getting our tits lifted. But like nobody's looking at our balls. Oh, I have to look at balls. Your boobs are like, not the bare boobs, but like your boobs are visible.

So it's a different scenario. Your balls are hidden. You're there like held up. Man of guys just like started showing off their balls when they got a ball lift. It's a lot. Is that a thing? Does that it probably exist? I don't know.

Yeah. I'm sure like everything exists. The question is how far do you really need to take it? Let's take a plot twist from saggy balls to your businesses. Yeah. What a segue. We are professionals. So what's the perfect mescal margarita?

How do you make it? We love a paloma, spicy paloma. How do you make it? What's the air and great fruit? You can use a little bit of like liqueur, like an orange liqueur. Okay. And that's it. Simple.

Yeah. We're all about simplicity. Our mescal is so good. You really don't eat much. It really is. I'm not even just saying that. Anyone who tries it, does it. Taylor, can we get a glass of the mescal so we can drink it on YouTube?

How smoky is it on a level? No, we have to time. So compared to tequila, it's smokier than tequila for most tequila. No, it said it was trot-off. We deliberately designed it to be very light on the smoke. Because we wanted to appeal to a wider demographic, a female demographic, where mescal was typically very masculine-dominated, like smoky. Dropped it off.

And we wanted to work in cocktails where it didn't overpower it. So it's. It's an addicting spirit. So you guys, if you're out and you're at a restaurant, you will order Miscall on the Rocks. I mean, so I like a, like I like a mescalita, which is a margarita just with Mascall. It's like I like a skinny one. And tell us the difference between, just so you can educate me, I want to know. Yeah.

So what we created was a non, not very smoky Miscall. It's very light on the smoke because for me, Miscall was too smoky. It can be very overwhelming. also the branding I thought was like very masculine, very tribal. Ours is not. It's very beachy and also appeals to women. Smart. Tequila, only by Mexican law has to be 51% pure agave, which leaves 49% of additives. A lot of, yeah, a lot of brands are getting sued because they lie about how many additives. First of all, that's what makes people sick and gives them a hangover and you're drinking like vanilla and like caramel. It's disgusting. It's crap. It's literally crap. By Mexican law,

mescal has to be 100% pure agave must they test it the other thing is tequila only can be made by blue web or agave one type of agave species so they're getting you know farmed younger and younger they're like shittier plants it's just not they're like they're not mature but mescal is by 80 different species of agave so ours is a blend one is quiche the agave we mix it with which is very very hard to come by wild agave which really makes it light on the smoke so it's It's not too hard to come by. And it's 100%. It's a supply chain is good.

There's no additives like vanilla or no. Nothing. It's so, I really want you to try it. I can't wait. This sounds so up my alley. It's really good. That's my new drink.

It's the drink of choice for young parent in particular. That's how I look at it where it's like you're going to go out and be social. You can't wake up with a hangover. I had vodka because in my book I have blue cheese stuffed vodka martinis and I die for a martini. And I have yet to discover how to make a mescal martini. like dirty martini. You just kind of can't make it. I died the next day. Like when I tell you, I was so hungover. It never happens to me. Like I'm usually fine. I've not seen you like that in years. I died. I had to get an IV. I had a full like week. It was so bad. I drink my skull.

I'm completely fine. It's like a wild thing. It's a wild thing. There's no sugar. It's got the lowest glycemic index of spirits. It's a probiotic. It's one of the lowest calorie spirits. It's like wild. And you have diversity of taste because you can have different species, it's like wines where, you know, most, most people in the United States will drink primarily espion of the species. But as you get more into the category, the whole world of different species that's really fun. It's really interesting. It's kind of a fun endeavor. It almost has a vibration and a frequency that it's alive. Totally. When you guys explain it. And we're also so passionate about it. It's also if you look at the trends of like the way that

people are looking at alcohol. It's the same thing that happened with food. People are becoming more mindful about where their food comes from. Organic, non-organic. Same thing with alcohol. Like, it shouldn't be that people go to a bar and say vodka soda, tequila soda, like, what kind? What are you putting in there? And that's how, we're just conditioned to do that. But as people start discovering more about what's in the product, they become more educated and they start knowing what they're putting in their body. I'm ordering mezcal tonight. And I am going to report back, full Bar. Do they have it? Do they have good, I think they have good mescalder? Can we get your Vita? No, don't get Vida. Why not? I'll give Sietamistadios is a good one. Yeah, that is good one.

Yeah, that is good. What's yours, where can we find yours? Ours is available online, obviously. If you're not in the Northeast, mescalum.com, but out here, I mean, New York City, everywhere. It's everywhere. A ton of restaurants. What's your favorite restaurant that we can go get at here? Probably St. Theo's or American bar. Yeah. Okay. Or Shane Margo. Okay. They have a really good cocktail there.

What are your top three go to, like regular recurring places that you guys go and eat out here? We love Ilcantonore. We go there a lot. You went there on the show, didn't you? I think. Where do we go out? I don't even know where I go anymore. It just shows up.

He doesn't make any quick. We like Polar. Yeah. Fried Olive? I like Shane Argo. I've never been to Shane Margo. You guys would like it. It's a little members club.

I think I would like it. Because I thought it would be too dushy. But it's like just. It's very cool. It's the right level of douche. Yeah. Like a flick of douche is okay. Yeah. Just a little. There's always going to be a flick of douche in New York. Yeah. You can also go non-dushy.

What's the best advice Andy Cohen's ever given you? Well, he told me not to read the comments. And I said it's good advice, but you know I'm going to read the comments. Don't read them. Now I stopped. But in the beginning, everyone doesn't. You want to get a pulse check, but then get out of there. That is the best advice. Yeah, get out of there. Don't read the comments. Also, you don't want to read the positive or the negative, because you don't want it, like, you don't want your ego inflated. Yeah.

It's a dance. We've covered a lot of ground. Yeah, we really did. Come together. So excited to have you guys on board. Did you guys know it? Yeah, love it. Love having you.

We're going to get you guys all. You said you want to dial in the home studio. We're going to have an office out here studio. Oh, they can help us set up the home studio. Yeah. We come and set up the whole thing for you. Great. Yeah.

I've got the equipment, but the layout means. Yeah. We've got everything. We've done a couple. And I would like to drink your mescal on an episode sometime. Like, I think that would be fun to drink it on the show. Next time we come back, we'll get together socially. Yeah.

You guys are great. So much fun to have you on a mic. Thank you so much. Where can everyone say hi to you guys? Socials, Aaron Dana Leachie. Abe. And go shop their mescal. And try our mescal.

Tequila without it is out. And yes, check out the pod. Yes. Very important. Just turn this one off and go right to that one. You guys are great. Thank you.