The Bossticks - Aimee Song On How To Create A Career Online, Get Paid To Travel, Stay Productive, & Have Career Longevity

Episode Date: October 16, 2020

#301: On this episode we are joined by OG blogger and influencer Aimee Song, creator of the wildly popular brand; Song Of Style. Aimee is an American fashion blogger and fashion designer. She started blogging in 2008 while studying Interior Architecture in San Francisco and was one of the pioneers of influencer marketing. On today's episode we discuss how to build a career online, how to get paid to travel and create content, and how to launch a brand in the digital space that can extend to products.  To connect with Aimee Song click HERE To connect with Lauryn Evarts click HERE To connect with Michael Bosstick click HERE Read More on The Skinny Confidential HERE For Detailed Show Notes visit TSCPODCAST.COM To Call the Him & Her Hotline call: 1-833-SKINNYS (754-6697) This episode is brought to you by Cove No two migraines are alike. If you have migraine, you know. That's why Cove helps you find an FDA-approved treatment that works for YOUR migraine. Just a few minutes of your time and you get a personalized treatment plan from TWENTY-PLUS researched-backed, Doctor-recommended migraine medications. No insurance needed. No trip to the pharmacy. All online. Meds sent right to your door. Go to www.WithCove.com/SKINNY for FIFTY PERCENT OFF your FIRST MONTH of medication and FREE TWO DAY SHIPPING. This episode is brought to you by ShipStation ShipStation helps online sellers get orders out quickly, save money on shipping costs, and keep customers happy. No matter where you're selling – Amazon, Etsy, your own website – ShipStation brings all your orders into one simple interface. Our listeners can try ShipStation FREE for 60 days when you use offer code SKINNY. Make sure your business is ready to meet the demands of a massive online shopping season. Get started at www.ShipStation.com today! This episode is brought to you by Function Of Beauty One size fits all may work for your accessories, but when it comes to your hair we all need something a little different to help us look our best. What if your hair care was as unique as you are? Function of Beauty is hair care that is formulated specifically for you. No matter your hair type, they create shampoo, conditioner, and treatments to fit your unique needs. Head over to www.FunctionofBeauty.com/skinny for 20% off your order today! Produced by Dear Media

The following podcast is a dear media production. She's a lifestyle blogger extraordinaire. Fantastic. And he's a serial entrepreneur. A very smart cookie. And now Lauren Everts and Michael Bostic are bringing you alone for the ride. Get ready for some major realness. Welcome to the skinny confidential, him and her.

That you can't be an absentee landlord. As like a landlord or, you know, like a business owner, if you're constantly gone, then things are not going to work properly. You hire people within your company to do things, to fulfill things that you're not able to, but you still have to be on top of them to manage them in some way so that everything runs smoothly or later on you'll figure out like, oh shit, you're fucked.

Things are getting spooky over here. They're getting creepy. Before we get into that, that clip is from our guest to the show today, Ami Song, and she's an entrepreneur. She's a blogger. She's an author of two books. She has a collection with Revolve and she started a blog that you all know called Song of Style. We get really real with her. I'm very into this episode. And if you're an influencer or a business owner, I think you're going to love it. So Michael, why are things getting weird and creepy? Well, I mean, we're going into a crazy election. It's Halloween. I think there's probably going to be some full moons. It feels like every night's been a full moon, even though it's not. It just feels like it's full moon energy. I'm looking at a gravestone here that you had built that said M.B. those are my initials, I guess. It's a didn't listen to wife. So if I end up, if I end up disappearing, everybody know that it was Lauren that did it. Hold on. This is, this is my moment that I was going to say it was creepy. I had an actual gravestone built for Michael for the middle

of our table. It's a home decor moment. Law enforcement's not going to have to look too far if I go missing. They're going to know Halloween. And it's like Michael said, it says M.B. And then on it, it says didn't listen to wife. And then I bought black crows from Party City and I stuck the crows to give it a really good effect. And I was thinking about putting candles all around it with candy and playing really creepy Halloween music for you to walk in. Listen, I don't even need Halloween to be terrified every night. You go to sleep next to you and you got to sleep with one eye open. Good. That's exactly how I like it. On that note, let's meet our guest. She's a major influencer. Like I said, she lives in Los Angeles. She is so open with her audience about anxiety and depression.

And she also happens to be a cook in the kitchen with a collection with revolve. Meet Ami song. This is the skinny confidential, him and her. We are recording, and I have to tell you, I told you I would tell you live about how I met you. So I was this tiny little blogger and I was probably like four years in blogging and we went to a reward style conference and you were a huge blogger. Past tense or?

Still are. Still are. Still are, still are. Huge blogger, superstar blogger. And there was a lot of huge bloggers there. And it was so interesting to me. This is when they called bloggers, bloggers. Yes.

They change it up on you guys and now call it influencing. Yes, it wasn't influencing yet. You were the only one that was nice to us, little fish. I remember. Yeah? I was with my friend Fashion Lush. You know what? I will actually, you and Gal Meets glam, Julia.

Yeah. You two sat and talked with us and we had all these questions for you. and you guys answered all the questions, and you were so nice. I don't remember that incident, but I feel like I remember you from a party at a mutual friend, your friend. At Weston's? Yeah. Weston's, are you playing the Succession song again?

What's going on? We met at Weston Mitchell's, too. Weston Mitchell's Design Group. It was a party in a warehouse, right? Yeah. Yeah, that was one of our best friends and still, like, to this day, business partners, Weston, and he had a furniture shop downtown. And it was like a very creative studio.

We did all these wild parties there. Yeah. That's vintage. Okay, so just for our audience members who don't know you, I'm sure a lot of people do, can you give us context where you grew up, how you grew up, what it was like? So my name is Ami Song, and I grew up in Los Angeles, born and raised here. And then I started in my blog, Song of Style in 2008. End of 2008, I was living in San Francisco going to school at the time.

And then, yeah, started this blog on Block Spot. I don't know if you remember that on Google. And then transition into like Instagram, when Instagram started. You stand out over a lot of other bloggers. There's something about you. I was like the first Asian. That's why. No, it's something.

It's way more than that. There's something about your personality that people are drawn to. It's like a charisma. Yeah. What do you really think when you first came into this space why people were so into you and obsessed? I think it's because I was normal. So when I first came on the scene, there were other bloggers, but they're like super like high end or like so pretty.

Like they're not super popular or around anymore. But I remember there were a few and then all of them were white. And I think that was different because I was Asian. And also I was in school. I wasn't rich. I mixed a lot of high and low. Like I would shop at DSW, which is the place that I used to work at when I first started my blog. I got the best shoe discounts. And then that's where I got my first Chloe pair of Chloe's.

And then I think it's because I was working and I had a job, whereas a lot of other like bloggers or socialites were rich. They dressed like head to toe designer. And I was normal. And I think that was what interested at people because they felt like I was one of their friend. Another thing that you do that I notice is you talk very openly about all different kinds of subjects. It's not just fashion. Like, you're very open with taboo topics. Do you feel like that was something else where the audience connected? I think in the beginning I wasn't super open. I only, I mean, it's cringing. If I read like my very old blog post, I haven't done it for a while, but I remember a long time ago when I was working on my book, my second book, World of Style,

I had to like compile a list of like images and block posts and all that. And I was like reading my old books and I'm like, oh my God, sounds like it's such a dumb girl writing in her journal. And that's what I did. Like, literally, I would talk about like, oh, today school sucked. I, like, my teacher, like, wouldn't give me, like, a week off because I finally get a chance to go to fashion week, blah, blah, blah, or like, I couldn't get to take the class that I wanted to or, like, I had to go to the internship, blah, blah, blah. Like, I had to work on Black Friday. Like, I would just write as if it was a journal. And then once I started getting a platform, and then once I started getting a platform and a bigger audience, I think I started editing myself and trying to

prove, make it seem like I was really cool because I really wanted to fit into the fashion scene. So it's interesting because when I first went to Fashion Week, I was such an outsider that people were so shocked to see me, like people in the industry, like editors or other influencers, I mean other bloggers at the time who were much more, like, respected than I was. Like the kind of like pioneers, they were, they're very catty. Actually, I remember this one fashion show. I'm not going to say which show it was, but they were very clicky and I went there. And they're like, oh, my gosh, let's do a group photo.

And then they did a selfie. And then it just like, not you. And then the hashtag was you can't sit with us. And then you know how like when you go to a fashion show there are like the fashion press, like Getty images, like those type of photographers. And they always want to do like front row photos. And they're doing a front row photos. And they're all like literally, I think it was like three of them like really. like squeezing each other and then there's me in the corner like like smiling and then I remember that

photo like was circling around and then they cut me off when they were posting it on their feed and stuff so like in the beginning it was tough I mean it was tough but then I didn't care so I wanted to fit in so bad with like the elite fashion fashion is technically elitism right it's like very for the elite not everybody can have it and I think or back in the day it was like such an aspirational thing. Even growing up, I never realized that I would be able to be part of the fashion industry in a way that I am now. And I remember trying to be so cool that it was kind of annoying. I was annoying myself. And then eventually, I think like five years ago was when I was even more open. Like, I was just so drained and trying to have this image of being this cool girl

traveling around the world. I felt like, oh my God, I'm living the life. I'm living everybody's dream. Everybody's so, like, everybody's always leaving me comments saying, like, your life is goal. Hashtag dream, bless. Like, I want your life. Whereas secretly, I was, like, not happy. So it felt so much more liberating using my voice to be honest about, like, my mental health struggles. I feel like nowadays, it's so much easier to talk about, like, mental health and, like, not the perfect life. But even five years ago, I feel like it wasn't something that we openly talked about, especially in like Asian culture too. So it was very liberating.

What was your childhood like to go back a little bit? Like where did you? And then like obviously like everybody fits into like some kind of like social hierarchy when they're in high school. So like do you like how did you feel when you were younger? Like were you like were you talking about fashion then? Do you feel like you fit in and you feel like you were like different? Like how like how did your childhood manifest into into this career?

It's pretty much every week for my entire life that I have had a migraine at point. And for those of you that have not had migraines, I envy you so much. It is the worst. Lauren doesn't really get them as much. But like my entire life, I've had migraines. My dad had migraines. And it's just something I've had to live with. For those of you that have them and you get it. They are so debilitating sometimes that I have to stop everything I'm doing. Sometimes they get so bad that they actually make me nauseous and make me throw up. And it's like, and it just comes out and nowhere. I could be drinking all the water in the world. I could be eating all right. But just for some reason, I get terrible migraines. And that's why we are so excited that we just

partnered with Cove. Michael is getting his migraine treatment. So Cove helps you get the migraine relief you need and it's all online. Go to Withcove.com and complete a quick online consultation. So Michael went online. He did his consultation and then a licensed doctor will recommend a treatment plan customized to your migraine and your prescription will be delivered to your door for as little as $10 per month. And for those of you that get migraines and know what I'm talking about, you also know that no two migraines are the same. They're always. difference. They have different intensities. Sometimes they're so debilitating. Sometimes they're just mild. Like, I honestly feel like, for those of you don't know what I'm talking about, you just kind of learn to live with this pounding pain in your head. And with just a few minutes of your time, you get a personalized treatment plan from 20 plus research-backed doctor-recommended migraine medications, which really helps zone in on exactly the type of treatment that's best for you. You should also know that no insurance is needed, no trip to the pharmacy, which is huge for Michael and I. It's all online med sent straight to your door. With Cove, you can have more

migraine-free days. Go to withcove.com slash skinny for 50% off your first month of medication and free two-day shipping. That's 50% off your first month of medication and free two-day shipping with cove.com slash skinny. Spell W-I-T-H-C-O-V-E.com slash skinny. If there's one gift I can give you from this show if I haven't given you one already, it's this, guys. I'm telling you, for those of you that suffer with migraines, it will change your life. Get rid of those pounding headaches. They are miserable. Enjoy. I was always different because I grew up in Los Angeles in a very white neighborhood. Asian parents are racist because they're ignorant, but my parents were very open-minded.

They were so excited to come to this country. My dad came here when he was 19 and he's 65. So like he spent majority of his life in America. He met my mom in Korea and brought her over here. So yeah, they lived here for a long time. And my mom felt like she was so liberated living in America, literally living the American. dream. So they were very open. So I didn't really experience like, oh, don't date outside of your race, like that kind of stuff. My parents were just so open. Like I've never heard them say anything

racist. Whereas I hear from my other Asian American friends where like their parents are very racist. So I'm really thankful and grateful for that. And then also they really wanted us to be integrated so and live like the American life. So we lived in a very white neighborhood in the beginning when I was growing up. I grew up in downtown LA, actually. which is so weird. When I was growing up, I was always like the only Asian kids. So I always knew I was different. Like, I don't think I realized that I looked different until I was like probably like five or six when somebody mentioned it. In the beginning, I probably was bullied a lot for my race and for being different. But eventually that me being different was like a cool thing. And I embraced it. And I also realized at some point that in order to be popular, you had to be either funny or stylish or rich.

Yeah, it was like a survival thing, you know, if you don't want to get bullied. So I remember all the cool kids had like the nicest, coolest sneakers in L.A. L.A. is a tough city to grow up. Yeah. We talk about, now that we have it, we told you we had a child now. We think about that all the time because you could be the best parent in the world, but you're in a, there's a lot of people around here. It's like.

Yeah, you have a lot of like rich, wealthy people and everybody's so different. And it's like so, it seems attainable, but also not attainable, right? The good thing is you, I mean, I think we're also lucky that we live in America where anything is kind of attainable. But then again, if you're not able to achieve that, you kind of feel shame or you don't feel, sometimes you can feel less than, right? So if you're living in a country like, I guess, like Sweden, where it's such a, everybody's so equal, maybe you don't feel so much of that. But then again, when everybody's so equal, it's hard to really stand out, right? Whereas in America, we're all so unique and so different. So you can literally you can go from like nothing, have a single parent, single mother,

and become the president of the United States. That can't happen in like places like Italy or something. Like I didn't grow up with money, but at a young age, I saw like the social class difference. And like the haves and haves not. It's so like in your face. Especially if you live in downtown L.A., We lived in a really nice apartment in downtown L.A., but a block away, literally, there's, like, a homeless shelter. And I grew up seeing that.

And I remember seeing, like, the haves and haves not. And also, like, within my community or my neighborhood or the school I went to, there was a lot of that. So I always wanted to be part of the haves, not the haves not, you know. And I don't know if that's a good thing either, but it did give me ambition, the drive. You have a lot of drive. Definitely more drive than a lot of people. Can you speak on that? Like, is that from childhood?

You said it's a little bit from childhood. Is it from other things? It's from just a bunch of events that add up. I do have a lot of drive. I think it's because I wasn't given things when I was growing up. So when we were growing up, my dad went through financial hardship. So, I mean, in the beginning, a lot of immigrants who actually come to America, if you're able to make it to America, that means you come from money somehow because you were able to afford that plane ticket.

But then again, once you come to America, you're like at the bottom pole. You know, like you're at the bottom of the bottom. So I don't know exactly my dad's background, but my mom's side of a family, like she comes from money, but she came to America. It was like culture shock, whatever. And then we went through a lot of roller coasters. There were times where my sister and I got like such a good childhood, like great memories. But then again, there are times where we went through a lot of financial hardship, which was so hard on us in a way where, like, literally, it was like a roller coaster. So I remember one time, well, there were several years of this where, like, on Christmas and Thanksgiving, I was one of the kids where we didn't have a family because we had a broken family.

So we didn't have like a big family. We don't have relatives. It was just my sister and I on there were so many Thanksgiving and Christmas where it was just my sister and I. And sometimes my dad, so before going to school. Your parents split up? Yeah, my parents were divorced. I can't remember exactly when they got divorced, but because I was old enough to be aware that it was such a shameful thing that I didn't get a present, unfortunately, or like such a nice

present. So I was in my mind thinking of an excuse. What am I going to tell my friends? When we were going back to school and everybody's like wearing all these cool clothes and cool things talking about their vacations that they went to. I was already, I think I was like 12 or 13. I was so young and I was already in my mind practicing what I was going to say so that I don't feel embarrassed and shameful. So I think I think those type of thing events had, you know, that's what led me to be so like hardworking. I started having a full-time job since I was 16 because I wasn't really

handed things. But I think it's also because I saw the haves and haves not. I, like amongst my friends. Like I didn't grow up in a poor neighborhood. I grew up in a good neighborhood. I went to a good school. But then again, there was a mix. At one point, there were times where literally we didn't have food to eat, like absolutely nothing. We have $5 for one week. So I had to make a last for my sister and I. And then I remember like Thanksgiving, obviously we didn't have food to eat. So like my friend from high school, Sam Shin, if you're listening to this, Thanks. Our friend from high school literally would go to church, bring us leftovers in cooking foil, and then like we'll eat that with my sister and I. And so that was like so normal. My life was so interesting where that I didn't experience just one thing. I was able to experience like the best of the best and then the worst of the worst. It sounds like you took care of your sister a lot. Is that correct? Yeah, because she was younger. She was so young when like my parents were going through things.

So, yeah, it was like my parents weren't really around. So I had to take care of my sister. And do you guys still have a close relationship today? Mm-hmm. That's cool. Well, I think it's really good that you tell this story because I think at this point in your career, people, there's a lot of people listening that probably looked to you and be like, wow, like they aspire to do what you have done, right? They aspire to have the success you're done.

And to pay you a compliment. Like, I remember reading, was it the Laura Mercier deal that was like one of the first huge influencer campaigns that really like set the term influence. are marketing on the map. And like, I think that you were a huge part of that because what you did was you signaled to an entire industry that, like, these types of creators like you and Lauren were actually meant to be taken very seriously. And we've seen like what's happened since. But you're one of the first people to have like a national campaign with a massive brand. It opened up space. Like you're saying what you did was like such a bold move for influencers everywhere. Like it wasn't just for you. Like it set the standard for many people in your space. It's like,

oh shit, like this is a real career path. But I think it's great that you talk about some of your because like I said, there's probably a lot of people that look at your feet and look at you now and like don't realize what created the drive behind someone like you to do what you've done. And I think that's one good thing about when you look at America. It's like you're right. Like that story can exist in other places, but like it really can exist here. Like you can come from very humble beginnings and do what you have done and actually build a massive platform that's literally based just on you. I think a lot of people that listen to us like we always talk about on this show where it's never as easy. is you think it is. And maybe you can talk a little bit like what it's taken to get the brand here. And I know that's a lot to unpack. But it doesn't just happen like one day you don't just go viral. And then you're like you're getting a big deal with Laura Mercy. Like it takes a ton of work. Yeah. I mean, I think a lot of people always try to ask me like, how did you get a platform? How did you get all these followers? But you have to know that it took 10 plus years. Now it's 12 years now. Yeah. It's now I'm on my 12th year. Not to age us. Right.

So yeah, it took 12 years. So, you know, like, and I'm still working on it. Like, how do I use my platform, my voice, my purpose in a positive way that's not only just self-serving, but serving for the universe? What is my purpose in life? Boy, oh, boy, am I excited to tell you about function of beauty? So here's what I did. I went on their site, and I took this quiz.

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hair, but also color safe. What I noticed personally about the formula after using it is that it really fit with my hair. So my blonde was looking ashy still. My hair was looking hydrated, silky. I even was psycho and brought it to someone who was blowing out my hair. I said, can you use my customized formula when you blow out my hair? He thought I was crazy, but he did it. I am also a huge fan that their formulas are vegan and cruelty-free. They never use sulfates, parabins, or any other harmful ingredients. That was very important to me as well. But the thing that just got me about this brand is, like I said, it's customized to you. Michael, it has a totally different hair concern. He has so much hair. It's shiny already. So he needed a different formula than me. And you can pick

your colors so they don't get mixed up in the shower. So what are you waiting for? Go to function of beauty.com slash skinny to take your four-part hair profile quiz and save 20% off your first order. Go to function of beauty.com slash skinny for 20% off and to let them know you heard about it from our show. That's function of beauty.com slash skinny. I want to know behind the scenes pre-COVID of what the song of style life is like. Like, I know there's no just one day in a life, but give us, say, you're traveling on Friday and you've got all these deadlines. Like, what time are you waking up? What time are you going to bed? Walk us through. It's so crazy. So for the past, I want to say like five years, I was traveling 300 days out of the year. So almost every airline I was like the highest.

It's like a big high performing DJ. I was like literally the highest level of every airline. It's insane. Like apparently like I didn't know this, but on Delta there's like the secret thing and American Airlines. And I was part of that. Like I was just like the elite of the elite of the mileage, mile clubs or whatever mileage, whatever it is. Because I traveled so much. And like the past five years, I literally like one week I'll be in or in with.

Within one week, one time I remember I was in three different countries, Paris, Italy, and Japan. Oh, that's a big trip. Oh, that's not too big of a deal. Yeah. Yeah. So, like, in one week. And then within that first month, I think, like, five different places like Korea and then America. I didn't realize how much traveling took a toll on my health until, like, I stopped traveling.

I'm like, wow, I'm so healthy right now. Like, I'm going to the bathroom regularly. Like, I'm getting my period regularly. I wasn't getting my period for like six months last year. And I had to do all these tests. And nothing was wrong. And I think it was like all my travel schedule. Your circadian rhythm was probably so completely off.

It didn't know what time zone you were in and where. And I was speaking on periods because you don't know anything about periods. I don't know any about periods. But I do know about like when you're switching time zones that quick. It's like your body was probably so confused about like what the normal rhythm was. Yeah, and I was, I try to be as healthy as I can. I mean, I, like, I try to eat as healthy as I can, even though I, like, like, to indulge. But still, like, I knew something was wrong with my body.

And then I think it was a travel. Yeah, I was just traveling so much. I think, like, sometimes I'm like, it was only February. Up until February, I was living this life. And it's just so crazy. I didn't have a routine. I didn't have a workout routine. I woke up in the morning in different times.

Sometimes when I come back from my trips, I would be so exhausted I would want to sleep for two days. But then again, I can't because I also have my song of style brand and I have a team. So, like, this is something that I talk to my therapist a lot, that you can't be an absentee landlord. As like a landlord or, you know, like a business owner, if you're constantly gone, then things are not going to work properly. you hire people within your company to do things to fulfill things that you're not able to but you still have to be on top of them to manage them in some way so that everything runs smoothly or later on you'll figure out like oh shit you're fucked and just to lead because like in any organization anything like people want to be able to point to whoever's leading that organization

say like what's the direction like where are we going and if you don't have that people kind of flounder around like what are we doing here and I think it was really hard for me I've worked with a lot of incredible people, because it's only been like five years that I started like actually hiring people. So the first five years I did it all on my own would ask people to take photos on me. But I think it was like the past five years where I really started taking song of style as a business. And my name, like all of that as like a personal brand and business and actually taking everything seriously. So I went through like different people that I work with. And then I was not a great leader because I was always gone.

I mean, how can I lead if they can't communicate with me? And then I think from the outside, it just seems so fabulous and amazing. Like, you're just always traveling, you know? But behind the scenes, it's also hard because sometimes you always have to be on, you know? I don't know. Just like think of it like this way. Like if you're having a wedding or a birthday party and you're the host or the actual person everybody's throwing this event for, you're always on, talking to people and then just being energetic and all that.

But with like fashion, I know it sounds very like frilly to some people because I know there are people dying out there and stuff. But you just have to be on. And I have to be my own advocate as an influencer because when I go to like shows, I am my own advocate. When I'm meeting people from brands and PR, like I'm pitching myself, you know. So I think at the end of day, sometimes it gets really exhausting after being on for so long. When you say you were traveling, were you traveling with brands and doing partnerships? or were you traveling for a mixture of your own pleasure? Like, or does it all work?

Mostly work. So I would always travel, like, last, yeah, the past five years or longer, like, I was always traveling for work. But a lot of times my work travels are amazing. Like, they feel like vacation, except that I have to Instagram. I have to post things. I have to share with my followers. I have to take content, all of that.

But last year in August was the first time that I took a trip. with my boyfriend, my Italian boyfriend, we took a trip where we didn't work. It was just for us. So even before when I was taking, going on a trip, it was a trip, but I was still documenting. I was still, like, filming YouTube videos or, like, taking photos. I'm like, oh, like, when else am I going to go to come to Colombia again? Like, I remember this. Like, I think it was like two years ago. I went to Colombia for my birthday. And I'm like, this place is so beautiful. I want to take every photo. Yakopu, like my boyfriend. I was like, it's my birthday. So, you can't complain about taking my photos.

Okay, let's do two outfits today because I did my makeup already. And then now that I think about it, that was enjoyable for me, but not enjoyable for my boyfriend. He had to take my photo. Well, you know, it's funny. Like, I think, because we've had similar backgrounds here, but Lauren and I got to a point where like, okay, it's either a work trip or a pleasure trip. He will not take one photo. I can't get this motherfucker.

That's for sure. I'm the worst. It's like the worst. That's the smartest, though, for you. to be bad so that she doesn't ask you. I'm so bad. She doesn't even want me to do it. I did find a new tip though where you can turn the phone on selfie mode and I can position

myself how I want and he just like a selfie stick. Yeah, selfie stick. Yeah. You're good for something. But I think, you know, like we had to distinguish now. It's like, okay, if it's a work trip, like we both put our heads around, we're like we're here to work. But now when we go like a pleasure trip, it's like we separate.

Like we don't work with any hotels. Yeah. Campaigns because we realized like it wasn't enjoyable to try to blend work and pleasure together because, you know, like creating content. It's like you don't even have a chance to enjoy each other than or enjoy the experience because you're just working and creating content. And people think like, oh, well, you're going to be in these great places, which is, yes, it's a benefit and it's nice and, like, very grateful for it. But it's almost like you're experiencing those great places in the wrong way because you can't even stop to really enjoy them. Yeah.

Is it lonely when you're traveling so much 300 days a year? There's got to be times when you can't bring anyone. That must be sort of lonely. No, I was always able to bring somebody. You always had someone with you. Yeah, because it's a work trip. That's nice. At least you get to bring somebody.

Quick break to talk about ship station. Personally, I am sending out popsockets, stickers, giveaways, all kinds of stuff. And what has streamlined that process is ship station. As many of you guys know, Michael and I have other businesses outside of the Skinny Confidential and Dear Media. And one of those is Wu. And what we do is we use ShipStation as well.

We get asked this question a lot. So if you're selling on Shopify or Amazon or eBay or even your own website like us, then you need to check this out. Shipstation basically brings all of your orders into one simple interface. Before ShipStation, it was so confusing. It was all over the place. It was not easy to manage. And now it's just all on my cell phone with the click of a button. And if any of you are sitting out there and it's thinking 2020 is the year to launch an e-com business and you're wondering, how am I going to get all these orders out to all these great customers that I'm going to acquire? Shipstation is the answer. Like Lauren said, it is the most effective solution. No wonder it's the number one choice for online sellers.

You should also know that ShipStation works with all the major carriers, including USPS, FedEx, UPS, and even international. So you're good to go. All your bases are covered. Another thing that I really like is that they offer big discounts on shipping costs. The other day, I was sending something out regularly, and I couldn't believe how much it was compared to Ship Station. And right now, the Skinny Confidential listeners can try a ship station free for 60 days when you use offer code Skinny. Make sure your business can meet the demands of this massive online. shopping season. Get started at shipstation.com today. All you have to do is click on the microphone

at the top of the homepage and type in Skinny. That's shipstation.com and then enter offer code skinny. Shipstation.com make ship happen. The hard part was sometimes I would get these anxiety attacks because like whatever I'm going through mentally, personally, like, you know, and then you're in a public place where you have to pretend like everything is fine. You're getting your photos taken. And I remember I think I got like two or three major anxiety attacks. Well, not major, but like pretty bad where I felt like I couldn't breathe and I started breaking out in hives. And that was hard, you know, because like I wanted somebody with me. Like my boyfriend can't travel with me all the time because he has his own thing.

And like I wish sometimes like I, I mean, I think you always wish what you don't have. Like I envy your guys' relationship that you guys are able to build something together and work on it together. But I'm sure that comes with a different cause, like always fighting or whatever. Do you want to talk about quickbooks at 1130 at night? Because I don't. Yeah. So, like, I'm sure it's a lot of that, you know? Because I see my friends who have their husbands and partners who are constantly traveling. And they seem like it's so easy. But then again, I also see the other side where they do these beautiful, like, kissing photos and, like posing. And then they never talk the entire time. They're literally, we're at a dinner and they're fighting the entire time and they can't enjoy the dinner. Whereas I don't have that pressure.

So I remember when I was going through that anxiety attack, I was alone with my then-assistant. And because my then-assistant was so young, too. Like, it's not like she couldn't comfort me, you know? Like, she doesn't know what's going in my mind. And I'm her boss. So I want to be strong for her. Yet I was inside, like, dying and I couldn't breathe. And I was, like, so stressed.

And it was manifesting in, like, very negative ways. So those times I feel so. lonely. But then again now, like, I'm much better because, like, I regularly do therapy. Like, I'm much more aware. When did you start doing that? I started therapy probably like a year and a half ago. What are some other things that you do for anxiety? Because I'm sure there's a lot of people listening, especially with COVID, that are dealing with anxiety. Do you have any things that you do rituals? Oh my gosh. I was eating a lot. So probably bad. I was binge eating and it was really making me feel good, You know, like I remember beginning of COVID.

So the thing is, I had ankle surgery in February. So right after New York Fashion Week, it was my first time missing out the European Fashion Week because I had to, I had a tumor on my ankle, but it was non-cancerous. And then they had to actually remove it. And I had delayed the process because they said it was a surgery. So I was like, I don't want to do it. And I had that tumor for about a year. And I was like, I don't, they were like, it's a benign tumor, but it's going to grow.

and it could attach itself to something and it could be bad. And I was like, it's fine, it's fine, it's fine until my ankle started really hurting. And then they're like, yeah, you actually surgically have to remove this and you cannot travel or be anywhere for two weeks. So that's, so I started getting kind of anxious in that February because I felt like I was having a little bit of fomo because everybody's traveling and it was my first time missing like the Paris Fashion Weeks and everything. And people were like, why are you not there? Why are you not there? And I'm like, well, I did ankle surgery and I don't want to get too much into it. And then I started feeling a little anxious, not being able to work out, not being able to travel.

Like, I've never been in L.A. for two weeks not doing anything. So I started eating a lot, ice cream, binging a lot. And I thought that was making me feel better. It was, actually. It felt really comforting like, oh, this is delicious. I'm going to watch TV. And then that turned into, like, gaining a lot of weight. And I've always pretty been skinny.

but I think as women we always have body dysmorphia, right? Even at my thinness, like I'll look at my older photos where I was like so skinny and thin. I did not feel thin. I always felt like, oh, I don't feel. It's so weird. Yeah, and it's so sad, right? Yeah. It's so sad. I feel so bad for like my younger self. I'm sure you feel that way too. I look at pictures. I'm just like, oh my gosh, I thought I was chubby here. Yeah. Yeah. And it's so sad. This person that I know, acquaintance, I know, she has like a nine-year-old daughter and her nine-year-old daughter was telling her mom that she needs to do more squats. And I was like, that's so sad that as a nine-year-old, you're already aware of the bodies. Why can't we just be kids and just accept all bodies?

Like we all say, like, let's love everybody, but it's so hard, you know? It's so hard to unprogram all of that. What society tells us is beautiful. How do you deal with assholes on the internet that try to call you out on your photos or come into your DMs? So, yeah, when I first gained a lot of weight this year, because my arms and legs are still skinny, but I was having like a little stomach, like a pouch. People were like, are you pregnant? Oh, my gosh. Like, and then... Let me just make a public service announcement to everyone. You don't ask someone if they're pregnant.

It's rude. It's condescending and it's self-righteous. Yeah, unless they say it. Yeah. You're an ass. Like, can we just make a public service announcement on all that? And if you're a guy and you're asking a woman that, I mean, I don't... I'm going to, like, what if I just came up to you and said, is your dick big or small? Well, I would, yeah, I would be like, oh, okay. I would say, let me show you over here. It's so rude to ask someone that.

It is, because you just never know, right? But it has created a space. I mean, it's so amazing for so many things, but also, like, it's, there's good and bad with everything. Yeah. But, like, it's also created this weird, like, I talk about this and, you know, we're all probably a similar age. Like, when we were kids, you know, it took guts or balls to come up to somebody and just say whatever you wanted to say.

Like, people didn't do that. You know, and I think... You shouldn't have drank the smoothie before this interview. Every time you drink the smoothie, you get something in your throat. But I think now it's like the Internet's created this place where people feel they can just say anything without any filter because they're hiding behind a screen. And it's like, would you really just walk up to somebody and say that if you weren't behind the screen? And I think not. Make most people wouldn't.

And that's one thing that I think needs to be contextualized here for everybody on the Internet is like most of the people that are that bold to just say something mean or rude. Like they're actually cowardly and would probably never do. that in real life to your face. Mm-hmm. And it just like a context to keep in mind. So people were dropping in your DMs asking if you were pregnant. Yeah, I got annoyed. I'm like, I already know I gain weight.

I can't fit into my jeans. And I don't need people to keep on asking me if I gain, like, if I'm pregnant and all that stuff. So that was really stressful. And then I started getting so insecure. And then COVID happened. My leg was finally healed. But COVID happened and I couldn't travel anymore.

It affected everybody. and I feel for the people who, like, the essential workers and people who lost jobs and who really, like, where their lives were really, really affected. Because I am in a privileged place where I was affected, but not to that extent, right? I'm able to live in my nice house, have food, not worry about life or death or paying my bills. So I feel grateful for that. But, I mean, yeah, so what were we talking about? You were just saying, like, like, trolls? Yeah, assholes.

Yeah. Do you delete and block? Do you respond? What's your, what's your, like, way you deal with it? You've been doing this for a long time. So you've probably got some good filters now to decide what to respond to or not to respond to. I'm still working on it right now. But for every 100 comments I get, maybe it's like two or three that are negative. So I choose to see the good. But it's actually really hard because I do respond to the trolls sometimes. And then I realize that the trolls have so much, like, satisfaction and, like, talking, you know, like, they just want to, like, like be instigating and poke you.

And they want to be acknowledged. Yeah. So then I'm like, I try not to acknowledge them. And I realize that if I don't acknowledge the trolls about like them talking about my weight gain or anything personal, then it goes away. They, they're, they're, I'm not lighting a fire. Like it doesn't become a bigger issue. I love how everyone in this industry and everyone, it just in 2020, just has a blanket word

for anyone that's rude on the internet. Troll. It's like everyone has this. This is like urban dictionary. They've been called out for a long time. Like Taylor and I used to play online video games, and there was always trolls in the game. You know what I mean? Like you'd be playing a game.

And next thing you know, somebody's like talking shit about your mom and you're like, what the hell's going on here? How is your whole life changed with COVID? What's your day to day? Do you wake up and have a schedule or is it just kind of whatever? I wake up in the morning and then I started. So my friend, Jen Akken, she's led a very similar life as me where she was traveling so much. And then she has this really successful business. But she is so grounded.

Like, she is, like, I love her. She's one of my really good friends. And I love her because there are a lot of women in this industry and in general, women and men that seem like they're champion for a lot of people. And I think with the whole people calling people out, I think Black Lives Matter movement and all that. Like, I think you kind of saw what was going behind people's businesses. Like a lot of great female leaders that I was looking up to, they're. were being called out because they were not genuine, right? Like, they were not putting money where their mouth was. Whereas Jen is the opposite. And she's such a champion for women. And I actually

really saw her taking steps in trying to be a better boss, better ally, like, especially when the whole Black Live Matter thing was happening. Literally, Jen started Zoom within our friend's friend group. And then she was just like talking about, like, she was so serious. Like, hey, how can we be a better ally like I didn't realize about my white privilege like that doda on me like I didn't I never realize that you know like also like there's a hierarchy in people of color like all these kind of things like she was just so open about it she bought all these books and read it and all that anyway so she I look up to her a lot and I ask her a lot of things and one thing that she does is she always journals so she gave me this book of like a five minute journal so I started journaling since I want to say like

like April. So I've been consistently journaling every morning. I just asked Jen, I was like, sometimes I have nothing to write. So I just say how I feel in the morning, but I feel like it's like a dumb thing. Is that fine if it's not like deep? Hey, journaling dumb things is exactly how you got your start. So nothing's dumb. Yeah. So I'm like, it's not very insightful. But yes, I'll journal. I drink my coffee. I drink my water. And then if I feel like it all work out, I was working out, like I was going on runs for a little bit or going on long walks, but I haven't really been doing that. Right now I'm playing a lot of tennis. I also have like a schedule.

It's not like super strict anymore. So a lot of my team, we're all working from home. And then sometimes we meet like once a week or every other week. So whenever we meet, we like shoot content, do the things that we need to do. And it seems like everybody's so much happier working from home. Like my team has told me how much they love working from home and how much more productive they are. And I feel like I'm in a better mental space. Yeah, I think to a degree, the only thing I worry about here with your media, because we have a lot of people. And I think, like, yes, I agree. We're getting a lot of productivity and production out of working from home. The only thing I worry about is a lot of young people use going into the office or meeting up with teams as like some social outlet. Because, you know, a lot of people are, you know, working in these, you know, they're in their apartments and they're sometimes not so big and they don't have a lot of room. So I always just think like, shit, like, I always need to be conscious of. of creating a place where people can feel connected to other human beings.

Because a lot of people, you know, we're all lucky we get to see all different people, but we get to do these conversations, but a lot of people are very isolated right now. And I think that's why you see so much like anger and sadness in the world is because for the first time, we're all interacting across these screens isolated alone in our condos or houses or whatever. And so it's just something that I have to constantly think about. What are some productivity tips? Like, are you a list maker?

Are you an alarm setter? Do you have a strategy for Instagram? Give us all your productivity. Actually, I feel like I'm not good at any of those. I'm such a Sagittarius. I wish I was a female Virgo. What's your guys assigned? Aries.

Gemini. I never know what I'm getting in the morning with those. You're so lucky you have two different wives. I'm like, who's here today? 20. Who's here today? Yeah, so I really wish I had like an inner Virgo because they're so good with like scheduling and all that.

I'm the opposite. I'm like the most lax person ever. Even when we're like shooting content or video, everybody's like, dude, what's the plan? I'm like, let's just do whatever, you know? But I think that makes everything more exciting. It drives other people nuts. I remember I was doing like a collab video. There's a YouTuber. Her name is Jen Im. Do you know her? She's super cute. And she's a female Virgo and she's so, she's younger than me. She's like a year younger than me. She's good with like lists. So when we're doing the collab video, it was at my house first. And then she had a whole list of plan. And she's like, Mommy, what's a plan?

And I was like, oh. I thought we were just going to like chill and hang out. And she was like, and I think I, and then we went to her house to do the video for her channel. And she was just so organized. And I was like, wow. I wish I had that in me. I'm not mentally super organized. I'm kind of all of the place.

I'm really chill. So I'm like a really good travel companion because I'm like down for anything. I don't care what happens. But then again, when it comes to planning things, I'm not. not the best. Yeah. Wow, she sounds like me on that. You're so anal about your plans. I'm like, let's know, I need to know what's going on. He has to know like the restaurant where we're getting a drink before, what time. But it's, it's good probably that we're, because she's the opposite of that. Yeah. It's probably good because I would probably go too crazy or she, you know what I mean? Yeah. I'm super

chill, like so chill that people sometimes worry about me. Like, aren't you worry? When you hire someone, what are the qualities that you look for? So like, for instance, I don't look at a college degree. That's one thing for that doesn't matter to me. Is there anything that, like, non-negotiables that you have when it comes to employment and stuff that you maybe don't care about as much? The people that I've worked with that have worked really well with me are the ones that don't have an ego, that don't have this pre-notion of what this industry is like, and then, like, really nice people. Everybody that, whenever I do jobs or, like, people meet my team, every single person says, oh, my gosh, your girls are so nice. Or like sometimes I work with Jared because he's a consultant and everybody says so many

great things about the people that I work with. So I think I'm so lucky in that. And I think I'm attracted to people that are really nice and kind and hardworking. Like literally, like when you meet the people that I work with, they're like every single person, even like with Revolve. So I have a partnership with Rov where I have my own brand and they carry it. And their team will always help me like, Your girls are like the nicest people that we've ever come across. And so I realized that I just am attracted to nice people, like really good people. I've had instances where it didn't work out where somebody had a malicious intent and things didn't work out.

But I mean, it didn't work out for a reason. What is the best partnership that you've ever had and why? I think if there's brands listening to this, maybe you can pinpoint some things that just worked really well. Obviously, like growing up my dream brand to work with was like Chanel. and Louis Vuitton. So Louvitov, not specifically, but Nicola Gesque, the designer, specifically because I was obsessed with him since his Balenciaga days. So when I got to be one of the girls, the LV girls, it was just like literally like dream

come true because they're so like particular. Other brands like, so those were like my dream brands growing up. And then like partnership as an influencer, like the partnership that worked out really well for me was there's a skincare brand called Biosan. When they first launched, it wasn't a partnership. You know, like, as influencers, we get gifted a lot of things to try, right? I've always suffered from eczema, which is like the skin condition. So I can't use a lot of, like, skincare products.

And I remember using their products, and I was like, wow, it actually works. I really like this brand. So I posted on my blog. And then eventually we started working together. They would give me, like, one-off jobs and then became a partnership. And they were just so, like, I love that they gave me free. rain. They're like, do whatever you want. Like, if you want to create a video, fine. Like, just do it in your own voice. And it just made me feel like, oh, this is so authentic because I truly love this brand.

I was always, like, using it. I remember I was used, I always use it on a plane when I'm traveling. And one of the housewife's daughter, I can't remember her name, but she was sitting next to me. She's like, looking at me like, what are you doing? Because I was doing like my four-step skincare routine on a flight from New York to L.A. after a fashion week. And I was like, try this. And she got obsessed with it. And then she started working with the brand because I asked the brand to send her products. So I like brands that give me free control, like literally like trusting me, you know, because I know my audience the best, right? So like, and then we just we got to like earlier, I think was it this year.

Yeah, I got to create a little collection of mine with Biosan. So and then that's what out. They said it was like the most successful partnership they've ever had. Any brand that kind of gives me free reign. Like Laura Mercer was an amazing part. partner too because it was their first time working with like an influencer in such a big capacity and they let me do whatever I want to do. Like I didn't have to do like X amount of things. Literally I could just do whatever I want to do. And I so use their products till this day.

Yeah. It's so seamlessly integrated, which is so important, I think. Your boyfriend. So how does that work with work? You're so busy. You're traveling. Do you guys hang out all the time? You live together. What's your deal with him? We're in a long-term relationship or long-distance relationship. So he was living in New York and I was living in L.A. up until quarantine. This year, yeah, so it's crazy. We never lived in the same place and we're never really together for more than the max we've ever been together was a month. But it was all like a month total of like we were in L.A. We were like, I think in Italy, like Rome or somewhere in New York like all together. And it became a month during the holidays. And where did you guys meet? We met in Morocco. What? Wait. You have to tell us that story.

I mean, that's an interesting place to just... Were you at a restaurant? A hotel? No, I found him on Grindr. I'm just kidding. Oh, I'm like, okay. That would have been an even cooler answer. No.

He was there shooting a sunglass campaign, and then I was there on a media trip. So, like, five years ago, yeah, on a media trip. And then, yeah, so we had like three days. said overlaid. And then, yeah, I saw him on the couch, like in the hotel lobby by sitting by himself. I think we're in Eswaria. And then I saw him sitting there all by himself with his like cross. I thought he was gay, to be honest, because American men, we don't really cross, they don't cross their legs, like how I am, like this. When you, like, when you're crossing your leg, don't you cross like this? Yeah, it's not like a form. Yeah, you don't go like this.

Yeah, yeah. You've crossed your leg like that. It depends. I think like when I'm in a vulnerable position maybe I do that cross. Because I feel like it's more common for guys to cross their legs, like, openly. It's definitely more comfortable to do it openly. So he had his, yeah, he was crossing his leg, I don't know, he just seems so feminine in some way. And I, I just love gay guys. Like I, my therapist said it's because I'm very androgynous. Like, I'm very both.

So, yeah. Like, I get along with girls that are like super androgynous too or like, guys. that are normally gay. Or like if they're straight, super talkative. Like usually they have a lot of sisters or a lot of female friends. I've always been like that. Ever since I was little, I always was more of a tomboy. So yeah, I saw him in the hotel lobby.

And I just sat next time and said, hi. And then we started talking. And then he was so like kind of stuck up because he was Italian. But he said he was stuck up because his English wasn't good. And I think that's true to back then his English wasn't as good as he is now. It is now. So, yeah, that's how we first met. Favorite beauty product, and maybe it could be skin and makeup that you can leave our audience with. And I see your eyelashes. They're looking very, very long.

No, some of them are individual, so. Share a couple beauty products. It could be skin, makeup hair. My favorite is, so I always use a toner. I really like AHC. It's a Korean brand or SK2 if you want to splurge. I like their essence. And I like I literally love, swore by biosan's vitamin C rose oil. Like absolutely love it. That's a good one. Yeah, like literally anybody who's ever used it, they only have good things to say about it.

Simon Ori. So he actually launches skincare product and he actually gifted me his whole line. And then I was like kind of skeptical because, you know, he's like such a, he that like tweaks people's faces. But there is this, it's called the correction serum where it's. It helps way like sunspot because I used to surf. I have, and I'm always in the sun. I get a lot of freckles and sunspots. So freckles are cute.

Sunspots are not cute. And I noticed that it's been getting lighter and lighter. So that's my new favorite product right now. I've been using it for two months and I actually see a difference. I love it. I need to get the, I'm influenced. You are influenced, yeah. Leave our audience with a book, a podcast, a resource that brought you value.

Oh, that brings you value? Every day I've been reading the Daily Stoic book. So every day it's like a different page. It's one of the best. We've had Ryan on the show a few times. So I really liked that. And then recently the podcast that I absolutely enjoyed was Tim Ferriss's podcast where he was talking to somebody about his like childhood trauma.

Oh, he just did that, right? Yeah. I haven't had a chance to listen to that. Yeah. I think I listened to it like last week and I was like, wow, it was long. But it was like very eye-opening. And I felt like, wow, this guy. has achieved so much yet despite all the adversity he went through. And I think that's so

beautiful that he's able to use his platform to raise awareness and help other people. Anybody that's not super self-serving, I think I look up to like Oprah. Like I love all of her like talks and speeches and what she does. What about you? You're amazing. My favorite podcast right now is Ed Milette. He's very motivational. I love his solo episodes. I'm also a big fan of Tim Ferriss. And I like Joe Rogan. I'm listening to the Miley Cyrus episode right now.

I actually listened to that too. Yeah, that was great. I like Joe Rogan. I know he's very controversial, but... Yes. I like him that he's not... Like, censored. He doesn't let everyone dictate what direction he's going to take.

He makes his own decisions, and he's very autonomous. You know what I think about with a guy like him? It's like, we've done 300 of these now, right? Like, and that's, it's a lot when you think about how, because this was like an hour. So it's like, it's a lot and then all the planning. But what happens is like as you do these more and more, it's like, how do you continue to talk about new things and continue to braise new issues and push the envelope and also keep it compelling enough for people to continue to tune in, right?

And I think about a guy like him, he's been doing it for, what is it, 14, 15 years and he's done 1,500 of these. And so like, you know, of course you're going to be able to pick out things that are controversial, but like any of us would be if we had 1,500, three-hour conversations. Like, it's at some point, like, topics are going to be. to arise and get and especially because all sorts of different guests come through and, you know, we do this show all the time and like, you know, you come on here, but like you could see there's no script. We don't know what's going to be said or how it's going to be said.

And it's just like a natural flowing conversation. And I think like that's the beauty of this medium is like you don't really know what you're going to get. It's kind of like you're having dinner with someone and topics are going to come up and like not censoring this platform and ourselves, I think is what the world needs more of because we see what the media does when it's like five minute sound bites all edited and censored. Like it really, it can become problematic for people. We're here, it's like people can come to their own conclusions. I think it's important nowadays, especially when somebody has a different opinion as yours, that not to just immediately cancel them out. Because like I have friends all different backgrounds and I keep seeing people getting called out and some

people are rightfully so, but you can't just cancel them out immediately. I think that's, it's tricky nowadays. It's just literally so easy to like, okay, this person says something. thing, we're going to cancel them and we're going to destroy them, make sure they lose their job. Like, I don't think that's right. I think give people the space to have different opinions, be okay if somebody has a complete different opinion to talk about it and see their point of view because we all have different walks of life. Sure. We work with a young woman named Dom Roberts, who's a social activist. And we actually produced the podcast too with her. And she was just on the show last, was it last week, two weeks ago, whenever we did this. And like what she calls this

accountability culture, where instead of cancel culture, where you're just attacking and trying to tear someone down. It's like, okay, if someone makes a mistake, let's hold them accountable, but then let's also have a conversation on how they can improve and how we can all learn from it. Because if you just cancel someone, it takes a learning opportunity away from everybody, right? Then you're stuck in one place and there's no room to grow for anybody. Absolutely. And especially as people, because our lives are on social media. And nowadays, whenever you tweet something, you post something, whatever, it doesn't disappear, right? Even if you're not famous, even if you don't have a big platform. But think about if people

remembered you for your worst mistakes. You know, you don't want that, right? Like, think about when you're a kid and you made certain mistakes, you thought differently that now you think back and like, wow, that was so not okay to do that or be like that, but you're forever branded for that mistake. I think that's so wrong. There has to be too a road to redemption. Like, for me, if someone does something really fucked up, I think it's almost, it would be cool if we could see how they get better. Absolutely. In front of our faces, like, what are they reading? What are they consuming? Do they have someone helping them like a therapist or a tutor or something? Like, how can we watch that person sort of learn? And I agree with you. Like, you can't just take one isolated tweet and cancel someone. When we're all people connected on this. Like, I think like what people forget is like we're all in this together. Like it's the human race. Right. Like there is obviously races within that. But it's the human race. And I think like where people get in trouble with this. I always try to think about it like what if this was my best friend. or my family member and they were going through something like this. You don't just say like, hey, Uncle Jim, you fucked up. You're out. Like, you're like, hey, we got to figure out how we can

help this person through this or like help them learn a new lesson. And if we just cancel people, like we're never going to move forward to society. Yeah. I mean, like the human mind and how we are, it's so complex, right? And let's say you want to change somebody's opinion. Do it in a way so that they want to like understand not like opposed to your opinion like so offended or like disgusted by how you're portraying your message if that makes any sense what i fear is that people like you and lauren and even me to a degree get to a place where they're scared to say things i think a lot of people are scared to say certain things that's not good because then what we're doing is we're fully censoring i'm not giving that energy anymore i'm going to be myself 100% and if i fuck up like then

I need to be called out and we can adjust. Like I am going to say what I want to say when I want to say it. People always tell other people with big platforms to use it, but if they're scared to use it, then we've taken an opportunity. And there's a lot of hypocrisy going on right now. Yeah. And I think it's so hard because there's just so much noise out there. So it's hard to see like what is the truth, right? And I wish somebody can be like, this is all the right things to do. But it's life's not like that. Especially with social media. This is new terrain. This has not been around forever. Everyone's still navigating like what's right and what's wrong. When do you think you'll give your girl an iPhone or like, I'm going to lock her on a ranch somewhere in the middle of nowhere. She's never going to learn that other

people exist until, I don't know. I mean, honestly, I never thought about it before my life. Lorna and I never, I mean, we didn't have kids. We talk about it a lot now. Like, what is this going to look like? She grabs my phone at eight months all the time. They grab the phone. And that's our fault because they see it. You know what else is crazy is you think, oh, I have like a year where I can be on my phone in front of them at like two months. she's looking like why aren't you paying attention to me oh wow so now i've decided that i have to say i'm working like to let her know that it's not that i'm ignoring her it's that i'm working so she can separate the two if that makes sense yeah and you have to be like super conscious to not be on it all the time around her can you really quickly to pimp out your clothing line and everything

you're doing right now your book i have your book capture your style you just wrote another one can you just sort of pimp yourself out share your instagram handle and everything yeah sure um so you guys can follow me at Ami Song. It's spelled A-I-M-E-E-S-O-N-G. It's Ami, not Amy. My clothing line is called Song of Style. Usually a lot of things get sold out. But if you're fast, you can get him on Revolve.com. And then your clothing Instagram is at Song of Style. Yeah, it's at Song of Style. Perfect. And I also want to pimp out all the people that I work with like Jared, Maggie, Patricia, and the incredible team at Revolve. And my manager is Vanessa, Claudia, and Alexa, because they're incredible people to work with. Like, I'm so lucky. That's cool to pimp out your team. Yeah, I love it.

I love my team. I'm so, I'm like, I'm blessed. I'm lucky. Thank you for coming on. You can come back on any time. Thank you. I want to meet your guys. Hey, hey, hey, don't go yet. Do you want to win some cute, cheeky, skinny confidential swag? To win, all you have to do is head over to my Instagram at the Skinny Confidential and tell us who you want to see next on the show. We really want to make sure that we're in touch with you guys about who your favorites are. Do you want to see another reoccurring guest or someone new? Let me know on my latest Instagram and on that note, we will see you next time.