The Bossticks - Aviator Nation Founder Paige Mycoskie On How To Forge Your Own Path, Follow Creativity, & Turn Your Passion Into An Empire

Episode Date: November 28, 2022

#520: On today's episode we are joined by Paige Mycoskie. Paige is an artist, fashion designer, and businesswoman, best known as the founder and owner of the Lifestyle / Fashion Brand, Aviator Nation. Today Paige joins the show to discuss how she chased her passion to create one of the largest fashion brands in the world to become one of the wealthiest women in business. We discuss how to forge your own path, follow your creativity, and turn your passion into an empire.  To connect with Paige Mycoskie click HERE To connect with Aviator Nation click HERE To connect with Lauryn Evarts click HERE To connect with Michael Bosstick click HERE Read More on The Skinny Confidential HERE For Detailed Show Notes visit TSCPODCAST.COM To Call the Him & Her Hotline call: 1-833-SKINNYS (754-6697) This episode is brought to you by The Skinny Confidential. Our BIGGEST sale of the year is coming up on 11/25. Like, 25% off products and 30% off our kits. To get early access, sign up for our email list HERE. This episode is brought to you by Manscaped No hygiene routine is complete without MANSCAPED. Your balls will thank you. Get 20% off and free shipping by going to www.manscaped.com/SKINNY This episode is brought to you by Mindbloom Mindbloom is the leader in at-home ketamine therapy, offering a combination of science-backed medicine with clinician and guide support for people looking to improve their mental health and wellbeing. Go to Mindbloom.com/TSC and use code TSC for $100 off your first six session program This episode is brought to you by Canopy The Canopy Humidifier's clean moisture combats dryness, sensitivity, dullness, and fine lines & wrinkles. This humidifier promotes a healthy skin barrier and increases the efficacy of your topical skin care products. Use code SKINNY at checkout to save an additional 10% off your Canopy purchase on getcanopy.co . This episode is brought to you by Cymbiotika Cymbiotika is a health supplement company, designing sophisticated formulations that are scientifically proven to increase vitality and longevity by filling nutritional gaps that result from our modern day diet. Use code SKINNY25 on cymbiotika.com for 25% off sitewide or create your custom bundle and get up to 55% off. This episode is brought to you by Just Thrive These days, stress seems to hit us from every possible angle in any environment at any time, day after day. Enter Just Calm - the breakthrough new stress and mood support formula from Just Thrive. Yes, the same Just Thrive that produces our favorite probiotic! Get 15% off Just Thrive probiotic + Just Calm supplement dynamic duo bundle or any of their other scientifically proven products at justthrivehealth.com/Skinny or use code SKINNY at checkout. This episode is brought to you by Match Dating Match believes the most important relationship is with yourself. So, in a world where you can choose to do anything–or anyone–choose you first. Download the Match Dating App today. Produced by Dear Media

The following podcast is a dear media production. Before we jump into this episode, I have a groundbreaking offer for you guys, and it is a good one. It has 40% off this product that I'm obsessed with. If you guys have been following along for a while, you know that I have completely kicked alcohol this year, just completely stopped consuming it. And listen, at some point I may go back, but for now, I'm just not consuming it. And I'm going to be honest, it was difficult in the beginning, but now I don't even think about it. And one of the reasons I don't even think about it is if I ever feel the it or if I'm ever out publicly or socially, and I want to be honest. to partake and get a euphoric feeling. Instead of alcohol, I take this euphoric kava drink called

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code because it's a one-time code, we have a special offer just for podcast listeners. If you use code Skinny 240, you can do it again to try it again. I suggest doing the subscription to get the biggest discount, but it's up to you. So check it out. That's Botanictonics.com and either code Skinny 40 or skinny 240 for 40% off your entire order. It's a great offer. Enjoy. Probiotics. Let's talk about it. Let's also talk about psychobiotics. I learned recently from a podcast that we did with a microbiologist, how the two work in tandem. They're like yin and yang. So both of them are all about a healthy gut. We have probiotics, which give you good bacteria and then the psychobiotic, which helps wind you down at night. Both of them are incredible, like I said, for the gut. The most important thing, though,

that you can look for in probiotics and psychobiotics is survivability to the gut. And I'm on a mission to talk about this because I feel like before having just thrive products, I was using a probiotic that didn't even survive to my gut. So I would take one every single day and it was doing nothing. Whatever you do, whatever probiotic you buy, whatever psychobiotic you buy, you want to make sure it survives the trip to your gut. Very, very important. I personally like just thrive products because you don't have to keep them in the refrigerator and I'm always traveling. The one that I have is their probiotic. I have been talking about this for the last three years. And I also have this product called Just Calm. And that's the psychobiotic. And what that does is it increases mental clarity,

focus, alertness. Like I said, we had the microbiologist on. You can go back and listen to that episode to get all the details. So those are the two products that I would recommend. And I would recommend. on their site, it's really like a superpower duo for your gut and your immune system and your mood support. If you're ready to up your game and feel your best, you get 15% off this dynamic duo bundle. And on any of their other scientifically proven products, when you go to just thrive health.com and use code skinny at checkout. That's just thrivehealth.com code skinny. She's a lifestyle blogger extraordinaire. Fantastic. And he's a serial entrepreneur. A very smart cookie. And now Lauren Everts and Michael Bostic are bringing you alone for the ride. Get ready for some major

realness. Welcome to the skinny confidential, him and her. We didn't shop online. I mean, it was all in person. For me, you know, it was the street fair. Like, that was where I thought that I needed to go. And then it was the trade show. I found out about a good trade show that I could do. It was expensive. It was like $5,000 to do it. So I put all the money into it that I made at the booth. And I went out there. And I went out there, I ended up making $150,000 in sales in a couple days. So I realized, obviously, I had a business on my hands at that point. Welcome back, everybody. Welcome back to the Skinny Confidential him and her show. Hope you guys are coming off. A great Thanksgiving break and getting ready for a fire episode. Today, we have one of our favorite guests to date. Paige Mikoski on the show. Many

of you may recognize that name. She is the founder of the well-known fashion brand, Aviator Nation. And this is a hell of a story. Talk about a go-getter. We cover everything from how to start a brand, whether you should take investment dollars or not, when to take dollars, when not to, types of controls you want and don't want, how to get through struggle, how to get the right mindset in order to operate, how to overcome hardships. We really cover it all. This is an incredible story of somebody who's built a brand that has become massive. Page herself has become one of the wealthiest women in the country because of her tenacity,

and she really lays it all out on this episode. This is definitely one of our favorite episodes, definitely going to have her back. With that, if you're unfamiliar with who Paige Mikoski is, Paige Mikoski is an artist, fashion designer, and businesswoman, best known as the founder and owner of the lifestyle fashion brand Aviator Nation, which I'm sure many of you know. Lauren and I both personally love their products. They make great handmade American stuff, and Paige is the lead designer on all of it.

So again, guys, this is an incredible episode. There's a lot in here to unpack. A lot of gems dropped along the way, so get your notepad. Paige, welcome to the skinny confidential, him and her show. This is the skinny confidential, him and her. All right, Paige, tell us about your childhood, how you grew up way before Aviator Nation, before all your success. What did that look like? Yeah, so I grew up spending a ton of time with my grandmother, my dad's mom specifically, and she was extremely creative, really into design. She

actually made clothes. She was a seamstress. And when I was little, I used to go over to her house and hang out in this loft she had that was like her art room. And I was obsessed with organizing all of her little beads and thread and all of the stuff. And it was really interesting with her because growing up with her in my life, every time I would go to her house, she would be like, what do you want to learn today? And it's so interesting because I actually have learned so many things and I love a variety of things and I'm really into hobbies. I have a ton of hobbies. And I think that that played a huge impact in my life, just to know that you can literally learn anything. And really in a day, you know, I mean, it was stuff that she didn't always know how to do. We would go to a craft store and get a how to

book and learn how to do pottery or learn how to sew or whatever. But anyway, that was a huge part of my childhood. I grew up with two brothers. I'm a middle child. I have a younger brother and an older brother. My parents were very involved in my life. My dad was a doctor and he was actually working quite a bit. My mom pretty much took care of us. And then she started. a health and wellness cookbook line that she spent a lot of time on and she started traveling when the books came out and the books became really big. So I had kind of an interesting childhood because I was, my parents both worked a lot and they pretty much let me do kind of whatever I want. So I was able to dive into stuff that I really wanted to do. And I never felt held back, which is pretty cool that I

would just be like, oh, I'm going to do this today and whether it was, you know, learning something. And I think like being really young with my grandma and learning, you know, how to do a lot of things. And then the next stage was kind of having a lot of time to myself and the flexibility of parents that really were just, they were in my life, but they were also doing their own thing and super busy with their own work. And so it allowed me to kind of have time to just be by myself and really just, you know, learn what I love to do. So everything you're saying is it's almost like they made you the perfect resourceful child. Yeah, super resourceful. I pretty much, another. The other thing is my dad really, you know, even though he was working a lot and concerned with

himself, I think that he also wanted me to, you know, he came from my grandma who wanted me to learn a lot. So I think he also wanted me to kind of figure things out on my own. And he always told me to just figure it out, you know, whether it was something major that I was in or something small. And I think that, yeah, it made me super resourceful, which I'm so thankful now that I have that. It's so important. I tell Michael, I say, all I want the number one thing for my kids is to be resourceful. And I think that I love what you're saying, like, they were in your life, but you were also learned to be independent. I think a lot of children, sometimes they have parents who are too co-dependent, like they make them too codependent on them, or they go the other way and they're just

not in their life. And there's a middle ground there, I feel like. Well, you want your kids to have independence because you get into the real world and it's required. Yeah. But true, I mean, you know, some people don't have it. It becomes kind of a mess sometimes. No, totally. I mean, I have friends, all over the spectrum that had parents that were, you know, really, really in their life and just all up in their business and controlling and every little detail they had going on, you know, trying to tell them what to do. And mine for sure were not like that. And I think that, you know, people really, it plays a huge role in the rest of their life, you know, like being able to kind of make your own decisions, figure your own stuff out, you know, like otherwise later on, you're going to,

you're going to face stuff anyway where you have to figure it out. It's nice that I learned that early on, you know, because I was ready for it later when, you know, shit hit the fan, which it does all the time in business. So it's nice that I have that behind me because people are always like, how are you so patient? And I'm like, well, I mean, you know, stuff happens. You know, you just kind of roll through it. And I feel like no matter what happens, you know, I have this kind of mentality of like, I can figure it out. At what point did you start to take interest in the career that you have now? Yeah. So I was in, I was in college at Arizona State. I went there specifically for journalism. I love to write and I love to do art when I was little also.

But I thought that writing was something I wanted to pursue and I was pretty driven on the journalism track. Like I wanted to start a magazine or write a book or whatever. And I was in school and I started realizing that I was kind of bored with just the writing. So I got into photography and then I minored in photography and I started just realizing how much I love the creative of photography. And I was developing stuff in the dark room. At that time, it was kind of, of like when film was making a transition into digital. So I was learning digital and print film. And so that was really fun. But I realized when I was doing photography, how much more I love the visual. And so anyway, I was learning design programs and stuff because I was doing Photoshop on a lot of my photography. And then I would play around with Photoshop and start doing other designs.

And I realized that, okay, like maybe I'm really going in the more creative direction. Like writing was just like whatever. But I thought that I wanted to like be a writer. So it was interesting that I made this big transition in college. And then when I got out of college, I moved to California. I did an internship with Shape Magazine. And I realized that, and I was doing photojournalism there. And I realized that I just didn't want to work in an office. I'm like, you know, it's fun to do photography and stuff, but I just don't want to work

in office. And I was shopping a lot in like thrift stores and flea markets and stuff in L.A. Because there's so many great ones. And I realized how obsessed I was with clothes. And I knew, like, from a young age, I was always obsessed with clothes. I was always obsessed with fashion. But when I was at that period of time, when I was living in California and I started going to flea markets and whatever, I realized that this was like a super passion.

And then I got a job at a surf shop just for fun. I always liked to have a lot of jobs, actually. So I was like doing a surf shop. I was working at a surf shop. I was waiting tables. I was doing photography on the side. And working in the surf shop, I realized how much I love this kind of small business surf shop thing. It was just fun.

I had all these friends that were like, you know, we would do the fashion stuff and we would stock the clothes, but then we would talk about the surf. And I just, I think I really love that kind of small business mentality of, you know, hanging out and really becoming a family with the people that you work with. And I loved working at, it was ZJ boarding house in Santa Monica. And I absolutely loved working at the surf shop. And that was when I realized, like, that I just loved retail. And I actually bought a sewing machine just because I wanted. to learn how to make some clothes because I was working at the surf shop and I was an assistant buyer, the main buyer there. And I was looking through, because when you're an assistant buyer,

you kind of enter their orders. And so I was looking at what he was ordering and I was watching what was selling in the surf shop. And I was just like, you know, like this shirt would be cool, but like it would be so much better if like you did this to it. You're editing it. Yeah. I was like, in my head, I was editing everything and everything from the shoes to the jeans to the t-shirts and even the skateboards. I was like, oh, I want those stickers to be a different color. or, you know, and I realized, wow, like, maybe, like, I want to start making my own stuff, you know? And it really was just for me at first. And so I bought a sewing machine and I started making clothes for myself and it was wild. I literally would stay up all night long. Like, like, I would go to work in the day and I'd get home and then I, like, sew all night. And I just wanted to get the perfect fit and the perfect softness. Just as a hobby for yourself. Just as a hobby for myself. So I, I just became obsessed with making clothes. I realized I could make anything. You know, I realized, oh, like, this is so cool. Because I already loved fashion. And I'm like, I can literally make anything I want. And so I would see something in a store or see something online, be like, I could just do that myself and make my edits that I would

want for myself. Exactly. Exactly. And so I like, for example, I took my favorite t-shirt and I took it apart so that I could then trace it and get the pattern. So I figured, you know, I have no schooling in any of this fashion stuff. I just like literally took apart my shirt and was like, okay, I can figure out how to make this if I take it apart and see how it was made. And then I traced it. And so then I could make t-shirts in the same fit as my favorite shirt, but the way that I wanted them to look. And so anyway, it just became this thing. And so I started wearing the clothes that I was making to work at the surf shop. And everyone was like, what is that? What are you wearing? And I'm like, oh, I made this last night or whatever. And they're like, oh, my God, that's so cool.

I actually went to action sports, like trade show for the surf shop. And I was walking around, you know, as the assistant to the buyer, and I'll never forget, like, people were coming up to me and being like, what booth did you buy that at? And I was wearing the stuff. And it was, it wasn't just like one or two people. It was literally like all day long. What was that? You have to tell us what it was. Yeah, it was a shirt that I actually sewed. I took all different colors of t-shirts and I cut them into stripes like about two inches thick. And then I sewed all the stripes together. So if you can imagine like a rainbow blanket. And then I made that into a t-shirt. So we need you to do that though now too. We need another one. You got to bring that back. I feel like you need to bring that back as a throwback.

Totally. What I love about your story is, you know, we have all sorts of different people on this podcast and different entrepreneurs. And a lot of them are like, you know, you come in and say, hey, I focus on this one thing and I did it forever and ever. What I love about this is like it sounds like a lot of your life up into this point was very eclectic. You're doing all sorts of different hobbies, working so different jobs, interested in many different things. And I think that's inspiring to a lot of people because especially for people that are starting out, like I never really knew what my passion was and still like figure it out, right? And I think people feel like they got to figure it out so early on.

And so they pick one thing and then they just like stick with it forever. And they don't taste a lot of different things. But it sounds like in your case, you had tasted different kinds of careers, different types of hobbies, different types of occupations before you kind of like really found your thing and it blended all together. Totally. I'm all about just trying everything. I'm like a little bit of everything goes a long way, you know, figuring out what you really love the most. I definitely did that. You're at the conference. People are coming up to you. What do you say? Yeah, I was like, I made this and they're like, no way. That's crazy. And it was just, it was just so obvious that,

I mean, I would have been, it would have been ridiculous for me to not try to do something after that experience. And it really was. It was that day at the trade show that made me realize that I could sell this because these people are there to buy. They're there to buy clothes for their stores. And they wanted what I was wearing. So it just clicked. I'm like, why can't I do this? Why can't I sell this? Yeah. So after that, I came back home and I literally quit my job at the surf shop and decided that I was going to spend three months making as much clothing as I could. And then I was going to go to a street fair that was the Abbott-Kinney Festival, which still happens. It's once a year. Really fun street fair. And I was going to get a booth at the street fair for $500 and try to sell all the clothes that I made. So I did that

and I made, and I made, like, $8,000 in one day selling, you know, T-shirts and sweatshirts. Wow. Yeah, that I made. And so then I was like, okay, this is a real deal. Like, I mean, if I can make that much money in one day. So, like, after that day, I looked up, you know, how do you really sell this to stores? And I knew about trade shows. So I mean, I knew about trade shows. So I mean, I mean, if I can make that much money. So, I started researching what are the best trade shows and I talked to some friends and stuff. And what year was this? This was 2000. This was 2006.

Okay. So like internet's there, but it's not nearly what ecom is today. Yeah, not at all. I mean, I was actually having this conversation with a friend the other day that like we didn't shop online. I mean, it was all in person, you know? So for me, you know, it was the street fair. Like that was where I thought that I needed to go.

And then it was the trade show I found out about. a good trade show that I could do. It was expensive. It was like $5,000 to do it. So I put all the money into it that I made at the booth. And I did project trade show, which is a big one. It used to be big one in Vegas. And I went out there and that's pretty crazy story because I basically set up all the clothes and I ended up making $150,000 in sales in a couple days. So I realized obviously I had a business on my hands at that point. But that all happened pretty quickly. And yeah. So what do you think so was there something that was drawing people to your boots did you start getting word of mouth whether people talking or wearing your clothing was there any like no names or like hey this person has real

talent or is and what kind of social media is around at this point at that point no social media nothing just like maybe facebook yeah like my space my space yeah i don't even remember facebook was a thing then to be honest it was my space because i know that because when i came back i i was looking for models and i ended up finding my girl on my space that i ended up using as my model So, yeah, this was like super early social media days. But I mean. Lauren, you had a big MySpace presence. You missed your opportunity.

What's that? My My space was Lauren was hot. Back in the day, Lauren's. Oh, my God. Was I your model? Her My space was a little racy. I don't know. My space was racy.

Hey, I mean, I don't know how you knew my MySpace. Because we were dating. That's really creepy that you were masturbating to my MySpace. Oh, my God. I was not dating you and you were not in my life. You were there. I would check in periodically. Oh, my gosh.

Go ahead. That's so funny. So you found a model from MySpace and then how else Michael was saying, did people see your clothes from wearing them? Because that sounds like a huge jump in that Vegas show. Yeah, the Vegas show was a huge deal. And basically it was really crazy because if you walked around the trade show, I mean, it's literally like gray, black, white, tonal, browns, whatever. I was really the only booth that was just like a rainbow of color. Like my stuff was always super bright and colorful.

And it really stood out at the show because, you know, I mean, that's just not what people were buying back then. I mean, the whole surf culture thing wasn't a thing then, you know, that happened kind of in the 70s and 80s and then it went away. There were no brands doing what I was doing. And obviously, I was inspired by the old, you know, surf culture of the 70s and 80s, obviously, because I was a kid at that time. But like nothing like that was happening. And so my stuff was super original and colorful and just different. And I think that people were just excited to see something different. a lot of stores even I sold all over the globe I mean stores came in from Japan and stuff and

they were really into it and I think a lot of times people look at like what they're into for in the fashion world and stuff and I'll never forget like I literally was in up my booth and it was just like loaded with people from all over the world and I was like there's all these cultures they all love it this is so crazy and and then you walked around and like no one it was like crickets like everywhere else and then my booth was just like popping and so I knew that you know that other people loved what I loved. And I just loved color. You know, I love to be comfortable and I loved color. And I was always wearing the stuff, you know, when I was working in the booth. And I think that, you know, when they walk in a booth and it's not just like a showroom and a person trying to

sell a brand, but it's like the person that made it. And they're talking to me and they're like, well, you know, what is this about? And I'm like, well, I just love to be comfortable. And I, you know, I made this in my garage in Venice. And, you know, I think they love the story too. Yeah, it's an authentic story. Yeah, because it really was me. It was me making clothes for myself. And that's why I was so passionate about it. And so I think they love that like this surfer girl, you know, literally is like making surfer clothes, you know, and it's like the real deal. It's not like some company trying to make it look like a surfer brand, you know?

It was a real, you know, situation with my lifestyle. I mean, my lifestyle was surfing and mountain biking and doing stuff like that. And I wanted to throw on sweats when I went to dinner. I didn't want to get all dressed up, you know? So that was my look and that was my style. And people just, they loved it. You know, this was before the whole at leisure. And, you know, like it was different to wear sweats to dinner.

You know. What was your first business hiccup? Like looking back on everything where you can remember where you were like, oh my God, I don't know what to do here. I'm trying to think. I was rolling pretty good. I think that the thing is in the beginning, trying to remember what, like. Someone just came on here and said that what Benjamin Franklin said, it's good to have

ignorance and confidence. No, it's Mark Twain quote. Oh, Mark Twain. Yeah. I'm worried about your memory. That was like literally like an hour ago. ignorance and incompetent. Or did you not even look it as a hiccup?

Because I'm like, I'm listening to you here. And did, when I hear the story, obviously you had a ton of thought behind this. But did you ever intend to grow it to what it's become? Or was it just like, hey, this is a hobby that's really just like taking off and supporting my life? Or were you thoughtful and saying like this is going to be what it is now? I think that a couple years in, I was pretty confident that it was going to be huge. I actually, that's one thing.

And it's always hard for me to answer the question of like, what did you do wrong or what was the big hiccup or whatever. And like I don't want it to come off wrong. But like anytime there was a hiccup, I always turned it into like a positive situation. And I think that's what, you know, that's what I, that's what I, those things made me grow. So I think now it's like I've almost convinced myself that they weren't even hiccups. But there was a time. I'm like remembering that I, because I was manufactured, I mean, I've always manufactured everything myself. And there was a time where. these people came to me and it was a guy and a girl and they were like, hey, we want to help you manufacture, like, we can help you, like, be really organized, whatever. They kind of, like, they kind of convinced me to hire them. And I hired them. And it was the first time that I really, because I was literally going door to door, like taking the stuff to the die house, taking the stuff to the embroidery, like in my car. And then once it got bigger, I had a U-Haul I would drive around like when it got crazy. But like, I was literally going door to door. And these people are like, oh, we can manage your production, you know? And in any way, I hired them. And they ended

up literally like taking my money and like disappearing and and just it was it was awful. I mean, I think it was like 35 grand or something like that that I gave them as a deposit and then they basically just, you know, whatever, manipulated. Yeah. And so that was kind of a wake up call of like, okay, everyone's not good, you know, like because again, you know, I grew up in Texas. I am a very positive person and optimistic and, you know, I think that that was the first time just. just trusting someone without really diving into like their background and the references and all that stuff because you just think, oh, these people are nice and they want to help and whatever and okay. And so I learned on that moment that you can't trust people, you know, and it was the

beginning of me realizing. And there's a few more stories similar to that where, you know, you trusted someone and they took your ideas and they went and made it themselves. And, you know, I mean, I've done this for 16 plus years. So like there have been a few stories that, you know, people have taken advantage of me. So that was the first one though where I was like, whoa, you know, I need to be careful who I trust. And it was hard because I was still very young at that stage and to have someone kind of like take all your money when at that point, like that was a lot of money for me. So, you know. But it sounds like what you're saying is you're able to kind of look at what people would call hiccups and see opportunity in them. I think that's so important to talk

about because I want to talk about your parents a little bit more in a second because I wonder what the hell they were putting you and your brother's food over there to make these things. But I think that's such a skill, especially if you're going out on your own endeavors, because stuff is always going to happen. And I think it's really critical being able to look at that stuff and say, okay, like, there is still an opportunity within all this as opposed to just rolling over and showing your belly. Yeah, totally. And I think that being, you know, taken advantage of and whether, you know, someone knocks you off or takes your money or whatever, like that kind of stuff, like it happens. And I think people that don't absolutely love it, like, end up kind of just like disappearing. And, you know,

obviously on a bigger scale, it can happen too. And, you know, there's a lot of stuff with retail and at times that don't pay you and whatever. And I think that, you know, when you get through that is when you realize like, wow, this is really what I'm supposed to do because I don't care. Like the next day I woke up and I was like, you know what, fine. I'm going to make that money back and keep going. And that just proved to me that like if something kind of major like that could happen to me and I was going to be just fine that, you know, I could get through a lot. So it gave me like an additional confidence that I know I carried with me and, you know, and then I obviously changed, you know, how I like asked questions to people and made sure I hired the right people and all that kind of stuff, which,

you know, it kind of sucks to not be able to just trust everyone. I like to do that, but you can't. It is hard to scale and build a team. How was it to scale? You said you went from a car to a U-Haul, and then what was the next step, and how did you handle scaling? When I did that trade show, the very first trade show, I took a friend with me to help me because it was just me. And that guy, I was like, look, like, it was like my best guy friend at the time. And he went with me. And at the end of it, I was like, I need you to now work for me because I need your help, you know? So that was my first employee. And he's actually still with me today, which was pretty fun. We're still great friends. Oh my God. That's crazy. Yeah. How long ago was that? That was, I mean, that was like 16 years ago or something.

Yeah. That's cool. But anyway, we came back and of course, you know, again, I didn't go to school for business. But for me, it was always like, we have to be making more money than you're spending. Like, that was just like the common sense approach. And so for me, I'm like, okay, if I'm going to like be able to, okay, I made these orders, so I have this budget. You know, this is what it's going to cost to make the clothes. This is what it's going to cost to have a staff, you know. So I pretty much broke down the budget and I realized what I don't have much of a budget at that stage, you know?

And so I ended up getting a couple interns to help. It was just a couple interns and me and this guy read. And we basically just had that working out of literally my bedroom and my apartment for a while. And then as the orders, you know, came in a little bit more than I hired another person here and there. But when I opened the Abbott Kinnies store, that was my first retail store. That was what my team really kind of grew because I was forced to hire people to work in the store. And that was in 2009. So I opened that store in 2009. I hired a handful of people to work in the front. And the store is I still have the same store. And that store is really cool because

the back is where the office was and the front is the retail store. So in the back was me and, you know, like my intern and read. And then the girls in the front and the guys in the front, whoever was working for me, like basically, you know, they would help out in other areas when they could. But it was so fun. I realized at that time that it was so fun to have a team. And it's funny because I really needed just an office space. When I opened that store, I wasn't planning on like having a bunch of retail stores. I actually needed an office space because I was tired of working out of my bedroom. And I was looking around in Venice and I was like, oh, this would be so cool if we had an office that was also a store and this particular property had two buildings. And I was like, oh, we can sell clothes

in the front and it'll pay for the office in the back. But it was more about the office, you know? And the space also had an outdoor area. And I was like, oh, we can have live music and have parties and stuff. So, but anyway, I kind of fell into the brick and mortar thing because I wasn't planning on that. I was just selling to boutiques and I needed an office. And then when we opened that store, like all these people were coming in and like buying the stuff in the front. And I realized how much fun it was. like I would come to work in the day and then I'd have my chats in the front and then customers would come in and I get to talk to the customers and learn about the clothes. And I really think that it helped me at that stage because it can get pretty boring, you know, selling just to boutiques.

Just to other stores. Just to other stores, you know. And obviously now online, you know, most people probably sell online and to stores, maybe, you know, but like to have the brick and mortar for me, it made it so much more fun. You know, I came in, I put records on. We had a record player. You know, we had a coffee maker. We're all like hanging out. And then the customers come in. They're like, oh, yeah, I love what you did with this hoodie. Like, you should do this. Like, we were chatting about the clothes. And it was almost like this, you know, kind of just brainstorm. I don't know. Like, it just felt really exciting, you know, to be able to communicate with the customer all the time. That's so funny that you say that because your Malibu location,

when we went there with Steve, we were getting drinks across the street at Malibu Farms and we walked over. And it does feel like a place you can sit down, have a cup of coffee. You can, it's feels very communal. It doesn't really, it feels like a shopping experience, but you don't lead with that. Yeah. And that's, that's, and that's how it started. You know, it wasn't really meant to be a shopping experience. It was like a clubhouse for my friends, you know, and, and the neighbors, because I was in Venice, and I, you know, sold my first stuff on that street at the Abbot Kinney Festival. So having a store there, you know, people were coming in and they, like, knew me, you know, they bought the stuff at the street fair. They're watching me grow, you know. And so it was like a hangout. And we would have, I mean, at the end of

the day, we would sit out in the backyard and have a beer and, you know, play some music. And we had we always had instruments all around because I just believe in having instruments all around all the time. And so, you know, we would sit back there. And I mean, it wasn't like work. It was like fun. It was, and we were literally the lifestyle, you know, that the brand represents. I mean, I had an outdoor shower. I had surfboards. We would go surf. We would come back. We would have a beer, hang out, play some music. And that was my life, you know, working at the Abbott-Kinney store, which I worked in the back office at the Abbott Canney store for like seven years. And at that point, you know, it was just fun. And I was learning about the clothes. And then a couple years after I opened

that store, I opened Malibu, and then I opened Manhattan Beach. And they had the same experience. You know, the kids and everybody that was working at those stores became best friends with everyone working there. They hung out after work. They had music. It was just like an extension of what I was doing. And most of the people that worked at those stores started at the Venice store. And they actually, one of the girls that ended up going to be a manager of Venice is now my director of retail. So a lot of my big people now actually started at the ground level working in the stores. They just carried the culture. They just carried the culture. But I was really all about the culture. You know, for me, it wasn't about making money. It was more about having a good time,

you know, and making cool stuff. Well, I think that's like how, you know, like for people that are listening to for the business aspect of this, like that, like you unintentionally created a very scalable entity because people want to be part of that culture, right? I always think when companies make a mistake to not build a good culture, it's like nobody wants to stay in that culture, right? Right. And then if you don't have good people, like, it's impossible to grow. No, the culture is number one.

I mean, if I were to give any, like, business advice today, I mean, there's like a few things that I really feel strongly about, and one of them is the culture. It's like, make it fun because obviously not only, like, should you hire the people that you want to be around, but the people that, you know, like, that are going to be part of, like, They love the same things. I mean, I ask when I interview people, I'm like, what do you like to do?

What, you know, because we all want to hang out and have fun and have a good time. And if you're not having a good time, then, there's a drip in there. Yeah, yeah. I mean, the reality is, you know, life is work. Work is life. You know, I mean, it's some people look at work is a bad thing. And I'm like, you know, work is what you create while you're living, you know. And it's like, and it can be literally creating stuff with your friends and the people you love. And I mean, our culture is so fun. I mean, we have siblings and we have people that are married to each other. And, you know, I mean, it's crazy. Like best friends, people living together. I mean, you know, it's like a, it's like this amazing group of people. And a lot of them, you know, started with me in the beginning and it grew. And I've always been super supportive of people. I mean, like, if they're having some kind of crisis or whatever, I'm like, take care of your family, take care of yourself. You know, I'm very supportive of that. And everybody that ends up going away to do something always comes back. You know, they all. always want to be part of it. And it's because it's a lifestyle, you know, it's not a job. It's like, you come to work, you do cool stuff, you talk to fun people, you know, you sell clothes, whatever. And yeah,

there is like some work involved. But like at the end of the day, you're with the people that you want to be with and you're having a good time and building something cool. Jingle balls, jingle balls. Michael, do you want to know what I want this holiday season? Sounds like my balls. I want some clean, manscaped balls. And you know, I'm going to be stuffing your stocking full of manscape. especially their performance package 4.0. Or as some like to call it, the perfect package for your package. I want your package glowing like Disney on ice. All right, in their lawnmower, 4.0 trimmer, you're going to find the weed whacker for ear

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That's mindblum.com slash TSC promo code TSC. At the same time that you founded Aviator Nation, your brother does Tom's. That's what I was saying. What the hell are your parents putting in the food there? What's going on? What did you want to? Wait, I have a girl and a boy. Give me some tips.

What do we got to be serving for breakfast in our household? I'm going to do what your parents did. I want them to be independent. I'm not going to be around all the time, but I'll be there for them. Give me some tips. Yeah, it's so crazy. Blake and I actually started on the very same day. It was funny. He was in Argentina on a backpacking trip. He was tired of the job he had at the time. And he wrote in his journal on the same exact day that I bought my sewing machine. So we think it's like so weird. Neither of us were in fashion or retail at all. I mean, I guess I was working at the surf shop, but we didn't think we were going to like start clothing. He was kind of in between jobs. And he came back from his backpacking trip. And he was like, hey, I have this crazy idea. You know, I want to start this shoe company. And I was in Argentina and it's this Argentina shoe. And he started telling me,

about it. And I'm like, that's so crazy because I bought a sewing machine while you were away and realized that I'm obsessed with making clothes. I was like, oh my God. I mean, I remember saying, what if we both end up in fashion? This is so random because neither of us had a fashion background or anything. And your parents didn't either, right? Doctor and. No, doctor and author. And really, my mom was kind of like a fitness kind of guru. So like the health stuff was always in the family, but nothing fashion at all. As far as, you know, what we did, you know, I think that the reality is just kind of having parents that, you know, or not no parents that are more like, yes, you know. And I think that, you know, I'd be like, oh, I want to do this. And I'm like, sure, do it. And like, obviously,

if it wasn't a good idea or something or, you know, I'd screw up, then it would come back at me, you know, and I think that just learning my own lessons and realizing, because I do think that the biggest thing that stops people in relationships and in business is fear, you know, like having fear. And I really believe that I don't have a lot of fear. They strip the fear out of you. They strip the fear. Yeah, it was like they never shot you down. But then when you, when you did something and didn't work out, they would hold you to account in some kind of way. Yeah. And the thing is, at the end of the day, no matter how bad it is, you're going to come out of it on the other side. And you aren't going to experience, you will not experience that if you're not doing things. You know,

if you're just in your safe zone, then you're never going to realize that you can have something major go wrong and come out of it. And I think that the more you come out of stuff, the less fear you have, you know, because you realize, and, you know, with business, it's all about taking risk and not having the fear. And I really don't. And I think that that is what makes me, you know, successful and good at what I do. And also just able to start something, you know, that is obviously an industry that's incredibly difficult. I never thought twice about it. You know, I just did what I loved. And I'm like, if it doesn't work out, whatever, I'll move on, you know. And so, yeah, I think that the fear, you know, Blake is the same way, you know, he really goes for it. And I don't see a lot of fear with him. And so

that's so weird that you say this. We're, Michael and I were just having this conversation about fear. With fear, you look for everything that can go wrong. With both of you, it seems like you look for everything that can go right. Yes. And it's a very different mentality. It's scarcity versus abundance. Yeah. And I even think some careers out there teach you to look for the fear. Well, I think that's like, so I was, I was at you event, you were at ASU. But I, So I didn't have like the greatest academics. But I always say it's the Harvard of the desert. But I watch a lot of my friends that were much more academic.

Nothing that's wrong like different paths. But in a lot of ways, I feel like the modern school system teaches you to look for what's wrong in a lot of ways. Right. And I think about that all the time. If I was paying attention more, I was a better student, maybe I wouldn't be able to kind of do some of the things I do now because I would be trained more to look for all the stuff that would go wrong instead of what. But my thought is like with ignorance and confidence, I only look at stuff that

can go right. And so there's been blind spots and there's been hurdles and there's been what we'd call hiccups. But if I went the other way, I might have never tried. Totally. I mean, look, it's all about energy. You only have so much energy. So are you going to like worry about everything or are you going to be like stoked and like push forward on doing things? Oh my God. That's exactly what it is. Yeah. You have to shift your energy. Yeah. A hundred percent. Totally. I think that goes for dating too. It goes for everything. It's like in any relationship is, you know, people that struggle. It's like, what's the worst that can happen? That girl says no. Like I says no. Right. You're exactly where you started.

Yeah. Maybe a little bit of a bruised ego. Yeah. Which one of you really hit it big? Because obviously both of your companies have hit it big first. Was it simultaneously? I mean, Blake's company was definitely a lot bigger than mine early on. And but mine was, we both kind of had different strategies.

And the big difference between Blake and I is he's very, you know, balls to the wall. Like, let's go, go, go. which is great. I am much slower, much more methodical, much more like, hold on, I don't know. And it's not about fear. It's just about like really calculated risk and just being like, okay, like, for example, I turned down Nordstrom many times before I sell them because I was like, you know, if I screw up with Nordstrom, like it's a big problem. It's a lot of merchandise. You know, so I knew that I wasn't ready for it. And he would have been like, oh, take the order. We'll figure it out. You know what I mean? Sounds like me and Michael. Yeah. Yeah. Totally the difference.

balls of the wall. I always said. I got to wrap my head around things. Okay, you got to wrap my head around. Yeah. And it's cool that we grew up, you know, it was actually really nice that we were in the same industry with two different perspectives because we could, you know, sit around the dinner table at Christmas and be like, hey, like, what are you doing?

What are you doing? You know, we had a very different way of going about things. And for him, you know, it grew faster because he was more balls to the wall. And I was more like, no, like I only want to sell these small stores here because I want it to grow like this. And I was really, really concerned about the roots of the company. I think for him, you know, a big thing for him was, let's make it as big as possible because obviously he was donating shoes. He wanted to sell as many shoes as he could so that he could donate as many shoes as he could. So he was really pushing it. For me, you know, I was more about I want to be here

forever. You know, I want this long brand. I don't want to be a trend. I want to be here forever. Slow growth. You know, and I really believed in like developing the roots and like not trying to just make everything. and, you know, a lot of times people get into the fashion world and they try to do everything and then they don't do it as well. And so I'm like, we need to perfect this and really focus. And so anyway, his brand definitely got bigger, faster. But then in the end, you know, I mean, now I'm as big as he was. And now he doesn't run the company. He sold the company. So it's no longer his company. I'm not sure how big they are now. But obviously, you know, his brand got huge. And now, you know, my company is as big as his was when he sold it. So. And you're still running it.

And I'm still running it. Yeah. And. And. And, and still growing. It's just different strategies. It's just a different strategy. We didn't even ask you this. I can't believe in it. What is the reasoning behind the name? The name.

So I, it's kind of funny. I grew up, as soon as the movie Top Gun came out, I was obsessed with the Top Gun movie. Like, I was obsessed with the confidence in the style and Tom Cruise.

And specifically, you know, just the way that they, they always wore these aviator sunglasses. And I had the movie poster in my room and they're wearing the aviator sunglasses. And so I wore aviator sunglasses. because I thought that was like the cool thing to do. And so anyway, like ever since I was young and that movie came out, I was really into aviators and always wearing cool shades. And I had a collection of

cool shades. And so when I was starting the company, I was sitting in my room and, and I was just making the clothes. And I'm like, what am I going to call this? And I have this collection of aviators. And I was like, oh, I love the word aviator, you know, and it represents this classic style that just never goes away, you know? And I really wanted the brand Aviator Nation to never go away. And so I was like, okay, aviators kind of like, you know, there's some synergy there with what I'm trying to do. And then one thing I really wanted was the brand to bring people together. So a big thing that I do is, you know, in the stores and stuff is we have a lot of events and we get involved in the community. And I love bringing people together.

And with the store, when I opened my first one, I love that like it brought the neighborhood together. And so Nation was like a thing because I'm like, okay, it's like this group of people with this classic style that kind of never goes away, you know? And so Aviator Nation became the name. And the logo is A and the end together and with the stripes, which are supposed to represent the sunset, because I just, I love the colors of the sunset and being outside and this outdoor lifestyle. Lord, I told you for years, Tom Cruise is a fucking icon, right? Yeah. I mean, he does look good in those aviator sunglasses. Listen, name it after with more range, though.

I don't think he's hot. Everyone thinks he's hot. I've never thought he was hot. Learn, think about the range. Hold on. I'm not saying the range isn't good. I don't think he's hot. He's confident as shit in that movie. I agree with you.

I just don't find him as a heartthrob. Like, people find him. Have you seen the original top gun? Yes. Okay. So, I mean, the thing is, he's not my... You were never getting a coconut cake from him. Never.

Sorry, Tom. No, but like, it's, I think it's the confidence, you know? It's like... The bravado. I get that. That makes sense. I get, I get that. Yeah.

And they like put on the shades and like it was just like, boom, like the style of so simple, just that one little thing. And it's funny, people are always like, well, why don't you do sunglasses? And I actually am hoping to be making sunglasses soon. I just didn't want to make the shift until I was really ready. But yeah, so aviators are in like all of our photo shoots. I mean, it's like a thing in the brand. You've been content marketing for a long time just to have the moment to do aviators.

It's about to happen. Yeah. And you're going to sell out, I bet. Yeah. Investors. A lot of people that were in your position are in your position would take on investors. and you decided not to. What was your thought process behind that? I never needed the money, to be honest. I, you know, when I started, like I said, you know,

I made the money for the thing for the trade show and then I went to the trade show and then I made the money to make the clothes. So, you know, the way that I looked at it is like, you know, people come to me all the time and try to invest. And they did even in the early days. I mean, Abercrombie, the guys that own that tried to buy it. And the thing is, it's like, you know, if somebody comes to you and, like, gives you money, obviously, like, it's great. But then with that, you're giving up a bit of control, you know, and obviously sometimes a little and sometimes a lot. But for me, you know, I never wanted anyone to change what I was doing. I really loved running the company. I love doing what I was doing. And I didn't need the money, you know. And in the back of my head, I'm like, okay, if I ever get to a stage where I really need the money, maybe I'll call one of these people. I mean, I kept business cards in the drawer for a long time. And the thing is, I just never needed it. And I'm like, if I have enough money to get this next year done, you know, then I can do it. way I want to do it. Nobody's coming over and taking control. And, you know, I'm my own boss. I'm not reporting to anybody, which for me was a big deal. And I did really believe. And a lot of people

would be like, oh, you know, it's not just about the money, but then you bring on this team of people that has the expertise to help you and all the stuff. And the thing about that is, like, nothing was wrong with what we were doing. Like, we were doing a great job, you know? And, and that's a big, I think, misconception and business is a lot of people think you need to bring in all these people with experience, but I'm like, I don't want to do something that's already been done. Like, I want to do it a different way. You know, I don't want somebody to come in that ran this big company. Like, how's that big company doing? I don't know. Probably not that great because most of them like, you know, fizzle away. I'm like, so I want to do things different. And if I bring in someone with all this

experience, they're going to say, do it this way because this is how you do it. I'm like, no, like, most of the time, we do it a different way, you know? And we really do, like, when it gets down to the nuts and bolts of the business, we do things very different than a lot of other companies. And And so I just, you know, I didn't want people around with a lot of experience. I wanted it to be evolving from, you know, this group that, you know, is just doing what they love and what feels good. And you can't, you can't bring all these like, you know, business people in that have this experience and be like, oh, just do what feels good. They don't like that. You know, they want numbers. They want all these things. There's no intuition. Sorry, I'm just saying it. There's absolutely

no intuition. And there's some great investors out there. But like, let's be honest, a lot of these guys come up and do more damage than they do good in some cases, right? Or they put a business in a compromise position because they're looking at 18 other businesses and you're just a number on a sheet. And when I first launched my ice roller, I was pitching it to an investor. And he said, no one wants to their face. No one's going to use a roller on their face. And I was like, oh, you need a roller so bad. You're like, you need lymphatic drainage so bad under your eyes. You're wrong. They just like, I just feel like they're not intuitive. Totally. They have other, they have other pros. But intuition. Yeah. I think a lot of these.

These practices have been really glorified too, right? So like a lot of new founders or new entrepreneurs, they think like that's the only way to find success. You got to go and get that like VC to back your business, right? Because it's been glorified so much. You hear about all these companies that raise so much money. But the question is like how many of them stick around. Exactly. That's the thing. I mean, I also, I also feel that sometimes, especially at a young age, like, or a young stage in the company, if you have a ton of money, it's not the best thing for you. It teaches you to spend a lot of money, which is not the best way to do it. I mean, I did it bootstrapping. And literally, budgeting and all that because I had to. So I learned how to budget. I learned these things that later on are important. If you just throw money at somebody, they spend it too fast, you know, they make stupid decisions. They don't think enough because they're like, oh, we can buy that. We don't need to think about it. You know, even in today, like, I'm like, okay, I have a little more money than I did

in the beginning, obviously. But like, sometimes when I just throw money at things, it doesn't help, you know, like you really, you know, it's not the way to solve the problem. And so I think that having that as a crutch isn't necessarily the best way to build a strong company, you know, if you want to get in and get out, maybe, I don't know, that's a whole different situation. But if you want to build a mean that really last, it has roots, it's going to really grow and make a lot, you know, someday. It's like, you know, stick around. Like, doing it with a ton of money is not the best way. To your point, too, I think you see this a lot of time with second time founders that have had a big hit, like, because the first time they had to struggle so hard and like hustle so

hard doing, you know, 18 different jobs, like, you know, working all. And then you get the money and you start a second one. Like, oh, I'm just going to hire the same team I had at the other company here, but it's like it's a startup again. And so you're just throwing this huge burn at something the second time because you don't want to, you don't have to go back and start the same way you did the first time. I think about that all the time because we talk about a lot of people sell a company and have big exit. And then all of a sudden they're like restaurateurs or they're like a fashion brand or like they go into all these different categories that's never been in and they throw a bunch of money at it. Yeah. And then it, you know, it's, you know, you mentioned early on

that there were lots of bumps in the roads and struggles. What are some things that you can think about in your whole entire career so far where you're like, you're, you're like, you're, you're like, oh, this was such a struggle. Maybe you have perspective on it now. What are some of those? There was a point in time where I had a handful of retail stores and the staff was just not good. Like it had gotten to a point where I still had a few people that were great, but like it was, it just wasn't good. I think that I hired people kind of fast because I had more stores and whatever. And I wasn't checking references that well. And it was really interesting. And it taught me a huge lesson because it was just drama, like major drama in the company.

and really in all areas and it was really breaking me down and I remember just being like oh this isn't fun anymore because I'm having to deal with so and so who doesn't like this person because this person slept with this person and this person

it was just like if you can imagine just a bunch of people that aren't like the best people you know and and I learned at that point I actually decided to fire all of my employees it was really interesting I let go of pretty much every single employee

and for context how many people is that that was probably like 18 people And I was one day all of them at once. Yeah. You got to cut the fat though. That's the only way to do it, I think is like slice off the mold. Yeah, totally. I literally was like, I am starting over. And so I let go of everyone except for a few key people. And I was like, look, now this is how we recruit. Like, if you don't come in here and have a like, if you're not a positive person, I don't want you working for me. If you're not, I mean, I kind of developed this whole different outlook on who we should be looking to hire. And I

had strategic questions that I would ask to try to figure out if they were like super drama and like. What was one of those questions? I mean, like... Pretend like you're interviewing me. I would be like... HR, ask these questions. Yeah, I mean, I would talk about, you know, if people come into the store and are being really like sloppy and, you know, whatever, throwing stuff around. Like, what are you going to do?

Like, how are you going to handle it? And, you know, some people would be like, you know, you can just kind of tell they're, like, they would just kind of be like, oh. You know, like, that's just so I hate when people do that. You know, like trying to kind of identify with me, like, I think is what their response was. but what then the person that's like, you know, I would put them in a good mood and turn them around and, you know, change their mentality or whatever, like the super, super positive people, like the guy that just surf the wave and is like, oh my God, I love my life. Like, that's the kind of person I wanted. You know, like the total opposite of someone that was just trying to tell me what I wanted to hear,

you know, and I could tell that, you know, some people just wanted to like tell me what I wanted to hear. and then some people are just super positive no matter what you said, you know? And so like, yeah, those were the kind of people that I was looking for. And I think it made a huge difference because obviously it felt better for me to be around people like that. But you can tell when people love their life or not, you know, I mean, if you're like, so what hobbies do you have? What do you like to do? And they're like, oh, I don't really do much. Like, you know, okay, well, that's a problem, you know. Like, you need to be doing fun stuff, you know. And just like kind of diving into people and finding people that are just genuinely happy was the key.

The Skinny Confidential has launched a diffuser and humidifier with canopy. You know about the humidifier because I launched it about a year ago. And now we have launched a diffuser, which is absolutely amazing. So this is going to make your house smell absolutely delicious. It's all five senses. That's my goal. So if you want to use this diffuser in the morning, we have a juicy spritz situation happening. So you can wake up with that citrus smell.

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So many humidifiers, and I've tried them all before launching. this are a nightmare. Like there's mold. It's disgusting. You open them up. There's like green stuff growing. This never does this. Okay. And the best part of everything is it can go right in the dishwasher when you want to clean it. It has mist-free hydration. It's invisible. It's clean moisture, which is the best for your skin and your health. I started to notice before launching this, like I'm talking like five years ago, that humidifiers had so many beauty benefits for healthy glowing skin. And I noticed that every single humidifier on the market was an eyesore. So when they came to me with this idea to create a humidifier, I was immediately on board because I wanted something pretty for

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understand why we love this company so much. They have everything from your vitamin D. to your B-12, to your magnesium, to your sleep supplements. They just came out with a creatine. They're completely changing the game when it comes to supplementation. And they offer some of the best ingredients out there. Many of their products are liposomal. So you're actually eating the supplements as opposed to just taking them in pill form. And we've talked about these products for a long time now.

Lauren and I are big fans. I'm not joking when I say I think I'm their biggest customer. I use my own code from my own show to buy their products consistently. As a matter of fact, we're taking so many symbiotic of products that we run out consistently and have to keep placing orders. So I'm going to keep having to do more of these spots just to be able to afford their supplements. I spoke to Sherving the founder and they are never having another sale like this again. They're doing 25% off sitewide plus free shipping and that applies on top of their custom

bundle discount so you can get up to 55% off. And you can do so by using our code skinny 25 at checkout. Just go to symbiotica.com for 25% off sitewide or create your custom bundle and get up to 55% off. Symbiotica.com for 25% off sidewide or create your custom bundle and get up to 55% off. Code applies on top of custom bundle discounts. Again, that's symbiotica.com promo code Skinny 25. Enjoy. Let's talk about the match dating app.

Lauren and I have been on a crusade to figure out what the best dating app is and we believe it is the match dating app. So many of these other apps have such a hard time connecting people in the right way. It's all swipe here, swipe there. serious. Nobody cares. Nobody's paying attention. Too much options. Nobody actually taking the time to vest in a serious relationship. And we all know, especially with our listeners, that they deserve the best when it comes to a relationship. So what is the match dating app? Match is a place that believes the most important relationship is with yourself. So in a world where you can choose to do anything or anyone choose yourself first, because dating someone who knows what they want and won't settle for less,

that is sexy as hell. And Match's latest study of over 5,000 U.S. singles proves it. Nearly 40% of singles say they feel more sexually empowered this year, and we say power to them. 53% say they find dating a helpful tool to learn how to be their best self. And 81% reported they engage in self-care at least monthly. Like I said, guys, this is an app where people that are serious about dating, serious about finding a partner, serious about finding a match. And I think people that are in that world and looking for that are going to have such better success using something like this as opposed to some swipe app, like I said. What match does is it pre-vets a lot of this. and it makes sure that people are actually matches with the same interests that are looking for

the same kind of thing and the same kind of relationship. So check out the match dating app. It is definitely the place to find people that are serious about being in meaningful relationships. If you do you, you already know the best relationships show up when you show up for yourself first. There's never been a better time to try match. Download the match app today. I think there needs to be a business that's like media training, but for job interviews.

Because to come into a job interview and for you to say, what hobbies do you do? and they say, I don't really do much, on what planet do you think that you're going to get hired at a job? Totally. I mean, I would have a fucking scroll about what I like to do. I'd be able to talk about it. I feel like there needs to be a boot camp media training for job interviewees. Totally. And like, I'm sorry, but hang out with my friends is not a hobby. Like, it's just not. Hang out with your friends is not a hobby. And that's like, you know what I mean? Like, if they're just like hang out with my friends and that's it,

like, you know, it's just not enough personal growth. No. You know, like, you know, like, you need. to have things you're interested in. And it was always, you know, people that were like doing activities or, like, art or music or something, they typically had like a better, you know, outlook on life because they were doing something that they love to do. They weren't just hanging out with friends. And, you know, I don't know, like, I mean, hanging out with friends is great. Don't get me wrong. But, like, you need stuff to, like, have personal growth, you know. And so looking for people that really love their life, you know, became a big thing. And and then I started hiring these people

and like everybody I hired was amazing and honestly most of the people I hired that year are still with me today. That's incredible. Hanging out with friends is not getting outside yourself. Get outside yourself. This is my like I mean listen I'm all about inclusivity but at the same time

with inclusivity like I don't want to work around a bunch of drips. Nobody does. Nobody wants to work around a bunch of eores. Like you have to have people that are bringing good energy to any space, any relationship. And I think like whenever you you don't have that it just changes the whole mood in the entire environment of whatever entity it is. It's like, so you just can't, you can't let anyone in. Like, it has to be the right people. Totally. And I

used to have a sign in my office that said be nice or go home. And I mean, and I would tell my employees, I'm like, look, if you're having a bad day honestly, like stay home or, you know, if you come to work and like, you know, you're fighting with your boyfriend or your, your dad's sick or something. Like, I'm sorry, but this is not the place for it. Like, you come here to get the positive juice, you know, like you come in here and we're, if we're, if we all come in, everybody is going to eventually have something going on. So then like every day, somebody would have something going on. And then that would become like the conversation. So I just said, leave it at home. Like it became a thing that it wasn't, you weren't allowed to bring your drama to work at

all because before it was like super drama and then I let all those people go. And I'm like, look, leave it at home. We're all going to be, you know, so much better for it. And then when you, and so it became a thing that you came into work and it was, you could only be positive. And so when you came in, everyone, it was like the same. It was like the same. haven of like even if you're having a bad time when you come to work like there's your positive you know and so we all started just pumping each other up and just being positive and when it changes right yeah we had we had we had we had the i'm gonna get a we had that somebody on that one of the guest was the toxic positivity and i was like really having a like miscommunication because

it was all about like talking about how like positivity is toxic like you know this type of but i was like well what's the alternative right like we're going to go in there and like be sad about everything like i don't want to do that and i don't want to condone it either like i think people should put on a positive attitude and, you know, a friendly face when you're out in public. You just, everyone has shit going on. Everyone's got a terrible day. Everyone's got a bad backstory. But like, I don't want to bring that into any relationship.

I also think if you tell yourself a narrative that's negative, it's going to hold you down. You have to tell yourself a positive narrative, I think, to uplift you. Because people get mad about this like raw, raw toxic positivity stuff. But I'm like, since when is being positive talks, I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong. I even think like, I talk to my team about this all the time, the way that you outreach for an email or email someone, I don't want to open my inbox to an email that says, unfortunately.

That is like such a negative way. Anyone that emails me, unfortunately, it's the worst word to start an email or I'm sorry. Or I can't do this. Or I'm sorry. Or I don't want to do that. Like, I just think there's a way to have like a positive spin on even your language. Totally. I mean, it changes the way that you work.

I mean, everyone that works for me knows that I, they can't come to me and tell me it can't be done. I have like a major problem with that. You know, I like don't allow it. And so I'm like, look, and when it does happen, because every once in a while, obviously someone's like, I can't happen. I'm like, okay, like, I'm going to figure out how to do that. And when I do, like, you know, you're, you're in trouble. Like, you know, solutions. Yeah. I'm like, look, like, if something's difficult, then bring me solutions, you know, bring me possibilities, but do not tell me something can't be done unless you really know that it can't because if I can figure out how to do it and you're telling me it can't be done, like, you know, your job is like on the line. I'm sorry, but like, I don't want the people

like that around, you know, I want people, because I mean here, here we are doing something that a lot of people say can't be done, you know what I mean? Like, there's not a lot of fashion brands that last this long and are still growing 16 years in and whatever and making stuff in America and doing, you know, all these things that people say, like, can't be done, you know? So I'm like, look, like, we're already proving this. Like, so don't bring your life in here, like, in a way that, like, oh, this can't happen or we can't get that done or whatever. And it's like the joke in the company because, I mean, really, I mean, we have done so many things that you would think can't be done. And that's why we're successful. And so you have to just change your mentality. And obviously,

you know, we're all going to have stuff going on. But like, just don't bring it to work. You know, like go to dinner with your friends and talk about it or whatever. But like just don't bring it here. Well, I like the reverse of that. And I always think about this. It's like you running this company, if you came in every day with all of your personal issues or personal problems, like, it would destroy the company. It would destroy everybody's mental. It would destroy everybody's environment. Yeah, nobody wants that. I mean, you really don't want that in that like environment. To have an environment that's safe that doesn't have that is amazing. It's like that one friend in the group that's always complaining, right? You're just like, oh my God, like Jerry,

you're such a, you're such a, you just don't want to hang out with them. It's like, I want to go, I want to go have fun. Totally. It's also just, you can't be done to me screams lazy. It's giving lazy. It's like figure out a way to make it happen. Eeyore is a character in Winnie the book for a reason. It's to teach children not to be that way. Yeah. Yeah. No, for sure.

No one wants to be in Eeyore. No, but it's there to teach young children like, this is not a way to behave. What is aviator nation now? What is the future? What is your vision for this? I mean, my vision early on and now is still to be around forever. You know, I think that now it's really all about content. continuing to come out with product and that the quality is amazing in all different areas.

You know, I want to develop more. I'm developing a lot right now. I mean, we came out with this past couple years. We've come out with denim and outerwear and plaids and like all kinds of different clothes, you know, aside from the sweats, which is obviously what we started with and what we do a lot of. But, you know, growing the product database and really just, you know, pushing, you know, the limits on quality and a lot of made American products. Because, I mean, for one thing, you know, outerware is a perfect example. I mean, there's like no outerware made in America. It just doesn't exist. I mean, if you look into it, you will find it's very, very difficult to find a company making outerwear in America. And that's something that is a huge part of what we wear.

I mean, it's... Why is that? Because a lot of the machines and the equipment to do different parts of the outerware are not in America. I mean, I had to pay literally, literally, like $600,000 to bring a machine in, it like sewed quilt lines and whatever. I mean, it's like people can't do that, you know? And so these certain machines that you do need for certain zippers and, you know, taping for weatherproofing and different things, like, just don't exist here. So once we had enough money, that was like one of the first things that I wanted to get involved in is the outerwear game because I personally love jackets. But, you know, it cost a lot to bring in certain machines and to learn these techniques and even employees like have to learn different techniques

because it's a different type of manufacturing. But anyway, what I'm saying is, like, I want to do more, obviously, I want to do everything in America always. So I want to just push the, you know, the limits on what we can do here in quality and, like, you know, whether it's developing these machines or these other processes or hire these people and teaching them how to do new things here. It's like, really, you know, what else can we make and make better than the performance that's being made in Italy and Japan and whatever? You know, people are like, oh, like all the best shoes are made in Italy, okay?

I want to make shoes better here in America. So for me, it's like more products, but like better quality because I'm like crazy about quality and doing it here. Well, people are so concerned all the time about price. And I think like going to macroeconomic levels, like you may get something cheaper, but then it's outsourced and you're actually hurting the overall economy and the country living. And I think like being able to do this stuff here and bring jobs here and have real quality here is so important. It's something we've lost for generations now. And it was like that was that's what made America so great for so long. I guess you can't use that term so much anymore. But because we made so much stuff here,

and we've just kind of like offshored a lot of this. And now we wonder like, why inflation so high, why the jobs are in the shambles? Why the economy is in such a shaky spots? Because we don't make anything anymore. Yeah. I mean, everything is outsourced now. I mean, a lot of things are outsourced now. And one of the reasons that the quality is so much better when you do it here is because you have your eyes on it. You know, I mean, I am literally watching. I mean, every single day, I approve a different element of a product being made. Even when I'm here in Austin, ship me step overnight from the factory literally every day. And if that was being, if everything was made overseas, I wouldn't be able to do that. And things would slip through the cracks. And you'd have to

be like, oh, well, we already made a thousand of those. So we have to do it that way, even though it's not exactly what we wanted. You know, I mean, I'm changing things every second for the, for the quality. And so I 100% think that when you make things in America, it is better quality. It's just really taking the time, the money. You know, it costs a lot of money to make things here, which is why our stuff is more expensive, you know, than a lot of other companies. But yeah, like really just keeping a close eye on things and making, you know, better quality garments and shoes and sunglasses and the other products that I want to develop here in America because they're not being made here. You know that company WeatherTech, the floor liners, the rubber ones,

it's like the golden retrievers in the commercial and they like always hose them down. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Friend of our start of that company. And he was obsessed with making it in America, like to the point where like you used to have to get stuff overseas. Then like he bought the equipment, then to the point where he makes his own rubber, all his mold. Like everything is done in America. know, and it is by far now like the largest floor matting company in the world. That's amazing. In the world. And I think it's such a cool story because it was like it was this whole push for American made. And now the quality is so efficient and the product is so good because it beats everything else that it's literally the largest floor mat company in the world. It's a huge,

huge company because think about how many people need floor mats. Totally. And obviously it's working, it's working out well right now for me because a lot now people after the pandemic and what happened, like, you know, with supply chain and everything. I mean, people, you know, there's, we're shipping things from overseas, obviously can't get them. And so for me, that didn't affect me at all. And so I think that there's a lot of reasons why the Made in America thing is even more important now. But I am so glad that I did it from the beginning. And it was always important to me.

I mean, you know, having a team in a factory and walking into the factory and seeing 400 people working in there and knowing that like their kids are going to college because of our stuff, you know, like it's cool. Like it feels good. And that's important to me and to know the people and look them in the eyes and see what they're doing. but also the quality. I mean, the quality of the product is better, and it's always going to be better when you're closer to the product. And I personally am very involved in the product. So your day to day, what does that look like? Like, what is it conference calls approving samples? What is your day? When does it start? When does it end? What time do you wake up? Right now I'm getting up about seven. I used to get up about six. I'm kind of like sleeping in a little bit right now, to be honest. But I like to get up and work out every single day. First thing I do. I like group fitness. I go to spend classes, usually. I like kickboxing too. So I do a group fitness class in the morning. Well, the first thing I do is feed the dogs and make my coffee. I have this whole like special coffee that I make that's a situation. And so I do that first. Then I go to my class, take the class, come back. And right now I'm

working from home. So I really dive in. I usually have like a stack of boxes and stuff on my desk that I need to look at because I'm very much involved in the product. Like every little detail, every piece of fabric, every tag, every color of even boxes I'm with. looking at right now for packaging. Like I, I like to kind of approve all of the actual product itself. And so anyway, I do a lot of approvals right off the bat so that I'm not slowing my factory down and I'm keeping them moving. And then I, the funny thing is I'm actually not even on email anymore. Like I just, I got, I couldn't do email anymore. That's, thank you. Are you not on email? This is one of the most successful women in the United States. She's on email, but not.

Because you get to a point where it's actually a waste of time. It's not efficient. It's not efficient to sit in your inbox and clear, I'm not on email that much either anymore. And people get mad at me. I put it in a way message. Yeah. I really like I don't like to look at my email at all. So how do people, I guess if you have to, how do people like get in general touch with you? Message in a bottle. Yeah. How do we find you? You have to try really. If it's really important, I feel like the cream rises to the touch. top and it gets to you and you can focus on what actually needs your attention without the distraction of email. I've told this story a million times. My dad had a friend back in the day with fax machines and he would get faxes that would come in and he would have a pile that he would put him in and just leave them there. And he said by the time, like, if it said like urgent or most important, he put at the very bottom. He said if it was actually urgent or important, like somehow it would get to him. But if it wasn't like, it would just be like a washware. I think email

same thing. People think everything is urgent. Yeah. You came to me the other day. You're like, I cleared my inbox. And I was like, that's a waste of time. Go on. So, so you You're off email. It is. I mean, because it is. It's just a bunch of people throwing stuff out. Everyone's saying it's... Ask, ask.

Yeah, just tons of ask. And they all think it's the most important thing. So what I like to do is just like have a minute to like I make a personal list of what's in my head. So I don't even look at any messages or anything. The first thing I do is make a list of what I'm thinking is important right now. Mark. And I'm pretty close to like everything going on in the business. And sometimes it's like a new idea.

And sometimes it's like, oh, like I remember last year I didn't like our Chris So I don't make sure that looks good right now. Whatever it is. Like if anything is in my head, I make a list and then I tackle my list, you know. And if I'm at a point late in the day where I'm like, you know, peek at my my I message or my emails, the only way I do that is I search by name. So like a person that I think is important in the company, I search their name and I look at emails they have sent me. Shit, how did we get a hold of you? Yeah. I don't know how we got a hold of you. I know. I know. I'm sure. Jamie, my, my PR girl. you must have talked to her unless you emailed. I don't know. I actually don't know how you got to hold me.

I bought 18 shirts and then I returned them and said there's a real problem with whoever made this. Yeah. I'm just kidding. I have good people that are like watching out for people that are reaching out. And and everyone's like basically they send me stuff that I look at. It's usually by I message now because I really don't like to go to email. But I do look at I message and my I have an assistant that like things go to her and then she gives me things. I do a quick scan on the list. And your podcast is actually, it's funny. My girlfriend, you're like her favorite podcast. So it was funny because she's like, no, you actually really need to do this.

Like, this is a big deal. Oh my God. I got to send her a little care package. She loves it. And so that's how I knew a lot of things actually get filtered through her now because people know to like go to her. And so anyway, she'll be like, no, I think you should actually do this. And so I think that's probably why, you know, I ended up here.

But hopefully we didn't fuck it up. No, no. She's like, she loves it. So anyway, yeah, I mean, I really try to avoid, you know, just like the mass, like, email request and stay true to, like, what's on my mind. And, yeah, like a lot of what I do throughout the day is product stuff, like development and new stuff coming out. And then I'm very much involved in all the creative, like the photography and the lifestyle photoshoots and stuff. I direct all those. And so right now with holidays coming up, you know, it's all about new launches. And I love, I, like, I get borderline. it easily. So I like to come out with new products like every week. It's funny because back when

wholesale was my focus, I was told to come out with product every three months. And I'm like, no, but I want to come out with product every week. And so it was nice when I stepped away from really focusing all on wholesale and doing my own channels. I mean, we have 65% of our business is online and 25% is our brick and mortars. 10% is wholesale. So most of my business is direct to consumer. And so I can pretty much do whatever I want. So I love the fact that I have this factory and I can come up with an idea and like the next week it can literally be on the shelves. So cool. Yeah. And so for me, it's like, you know, I sit down and I think about what do I want to hit the shelves next week? Like, what am I feeling? Okay, I feel like, you know, this is really fun right now and I love this color. I just

want to do it. And so a lot of it is like putting stuff in motion. I talk to the people that make the clothes and the factory more than anybody because I'm just constantly focused on the clothes. I have, you know, awesome people that work for me that handle a lot of like the day-to-day, like retail operations and stuff like that. So I don't really have to deal with that very much. I do come in and I approve all management, you know, positions and stuff. And so I have a little bit of like staff stuff that I do probably once a week. But for the most part, it's about product. It's like, okay, you know, you know, what should we come out with next? And we want these photos taken so that it looks the way that we want it to look and then what should we develop. And yeah, so it's, it's fun.

It's doing a lot of the fun stuff. I think it's super cool that you still have your arms around product development that much. Oh, yeah. Especially like the growth. This is what I want. I love the creative side in the product. That's just put me in that position and I'm good. You have to stay true to that. Like, if that's what you really love, you know, don't get buried in the financials and all the, all the stuff that you don't want, you know, like. This is literally music to my ear. When have you been buried in the financials? Because that's news to me if you have. Sometimes you try to want, you want me to tip my toe in there. And like, I'm just not going to dip my toe in there. My wife has no idea where we even like have any bank account. That's not where I've cried. I said if something goes, if I go out, if I go out, if I go out, if. If I'm just. I don't thrive. If I go out. If I'm just. I'm. I don't thrive. I don't thrive. If I. I. I. I I go tomorrow, like you've got to be able to find this stuff. Write it down and put it in the safe. It's in a hole. Leave the safe code with someone else because I'm not good with numbers. There's a hole in the backyard.

That's good that you know that. You're amazing. Can we do, I didn't even ask you this off air, but can we do like an Aviator Nation giveaway? Yeah, that would be amazing. Like of your favorites? Totally. Okay. All you guys have to do is follow who on Instagram.

Aviator Nation. Perfect. And tell us your favorite part of this episode on my latest Instagram at Lauren Bostick. And Paige will send you her picks. her favorites. Is that okay? Let's do it. And is what you're wearing aviary? Yeah, it is. You got it. You got it. Yeah. I like that flannel. It's cool. Yeah. These are actually coming out like I think they're hitting the shelves right now. You got to put that in the giveaway. People will love that. You guys, it's like a red and blue flannel. It's so cute for like Thanksgiving and fall. You're so inspiring.

I mean, we could have gone so many different directions with this. Come back anytime. Thank you. That was such a great podcast. I hope Michael took notes. For my personality. Where can everyone. and find you the brand, pimp the brand out, tell us where to shop, the stores, everything. Yeah,

you can follow me at Paige Mikoski. That's my Instagram. And I post a lot about new stuff coming up and when we're building new stores and new installations. I'm very hands on.

I like to paint the walls myself. So I post a lot of my creative stuff there. And then Aviator Nation on Instagram, obviously, is a great spot to find the new collections hitting. We have 17 stores now. Wow, realize it. Wow. And those are all listed on the website if you want to know if we have a store in

your city. But every single store is completely unique. And if you go in there, you're going to find stuff that you won't see in the other stores, which is fun. So they're all an experience. And yeah, I think just, I mean, social media obviously is the best way to follow us right now. And we try to post, I try to post as much as I can just to kind of connect with the fans of the brand. And I'm all about, you know, like reaching out and like giving us your ideas and opinions. and stuff like that because it's fun to connect with everybody. Brad. This is fun.

Paige, thank you. Michael, find your green hat and rock that. Because you did look hot in that. Yeah. I'm excited to see this hat. Yeah, let's put the hat.

How worn is it? It's worn. It's worn. No, it's worn. I'm telling you, if I tell him he looks hot and something, it's like,

we get it. Yeah. I told you, I'll ride it to the wheels. Yeah. I love it. Right. Yeah,

man. Thanks for coming on. Yeah, thank you. Thank you. Hope you guys love this episode with Paige. if you want to win the skinny confidential face shaper, if it's perfect in your stocking, all you have to do is tell us your favorite takeaway from this episode with page on my latest

Instagram at Lauren Bostic. Also make sure you've rated and reviewed the show. And with that, we'll see you on Thursday. Probiotics. Let's talk about it. Let's also talk about psychobiotics. I learned recently from a podcast that we did with a microbiologist, how the two work in tandem. They're like yin and yang. So both of them are all about a, healthy gut. We have probiotics, which give you good bacteria and then the psychobiotic, which helps wind you down at night. Both of them are incredible, like I said, for the gut. The most important thing, though, that you can look for in probiotics and psychobiotics is survivability to the gut. And I am on a mission to talk about this because I feel like before having just thrive products, I was using a

probiotic that didn't even survive to my gut. So I would take one every single day and it was doing nothing. Whatever you do, whatever probiotic you buy, whatever psychobiotic you buy, you want to make sure it survives the trip to your gut. Very, very important. I personally like Just Thrive products because you don't have to keep them in the refrigerator and I'm always traveling. The one that I have is their probiotic. I have been talking about this for the last three years. And I also have this product called Just Calm. And that's the psychobiotic. And what that does is it increases mental clarity, focus, alertness. Like I said, we had the microbiologist on. You. can go back and listen to that episode to get all the details. So those are the two products that I

would recommend on their site. It's really like a superpower duo for your gut and your immune system and your mood support. If you're ready to up your game and feel your best, you get 15% off this dynamic duo bundle and on any of their other scientifically proven products when you go to Just Thrivehealth.com and use Code Skinny at checkout. That's just thrivehealth.com code skinny.