The Bossticks - Beau Dunn On What To Do When Life Gets Hard, Trauma, Cancer, & Perseverance

Episode Date: May 19, 2022

#462: Beau Dunn is an American visual artist, model, and actress. based in Los Angeles, California. Today Beau joins the show to discuss how to handle hardships in life. We also discuss Beaus struggle with cancer and a terrible injury and how we can find the streght as humans to perservere in the face of adversity.  To check out Beau's work click HERE To check out the limited TSC "Obnoxious" Merch Collection click HERE To connect with Lauryn Evarts click HERE To connect with Michael Bosstick click HERE Read More on The Skinny Confidential HERE For Detailed Show Notes visit TSCPODCAST.COM This episode is brought to you by Feel Free from Botanic Tonics. If you are looking for an alcohol alternative try this euphoric kava drink and get 40% off your order or subscription by using either code SKINNY40 or code SKINNY240 at www.botanictonics.com  Produced by Dear Media 

The following podcast is a dear media production. She's a lifestyle blogger extraordinaire. Fantastic. And he's a serial entrepreneur. A very smart cookie. And now Lauren Everts and Michael Bostic are bringing you along for the ride. Get ready for some major realness. Welcome to the skinny confidential, him and her.

My first round of Barbies, I mixed vintage and new, and they all have the original. so I literally photograph them and a lot of people think I warp them or this, that's that. And like, this is how they come and that's how I wanted. And especially for my two new series, because obviously you're going, you know, blacks and brunettes and Asian and we're going all different Barbies.

But it's like I wanted to really represent how Mattel made them. It's not how I see them through my eyes. Welcome back, everybody. Welcome back to the Skinny Confidential Him and Her show. That clip was some more guests of the show. Today, Bo Dunn. Many of you may be familiar from her art, but this woman has an incredible story.

I feel like we just kept peeling back the layers and layers. And there was moments in the show when I was shocked multiple times. I think you were too. Our jaw was on the floor. She has an incredible story. It's a wild story. It's one of the wilder stories we've heard on this podcast. And just when you think that you've heard the story, then there's another layer to the story.

So this woman is definitely multidimensional, multifaceted. There's so much going on. In addition to that, obviously, a very talented artist that many of you guys are familiar with. And we had a lot of fun on this show. So little background. I actually stocked Bo for years. She did Chris Jenner's closet. She did Kylie's glam room. She's done art for every celebrity model influencer that you can think of. Her art is so fucking cool. She's done blown up oversized Trojan condoms. You've probably seen them. She's also done all the Barbies. If you guys have seen any kind of Barbie art, that's probably Bo. And then also she did the game operation blown up. She has so much art. You guys have to go check it out. But what's amazing is I stalked. her for so long, finally got her on this podcast. And I just clicked with her right away. Her and Michael and I clicked immediately. She told Michael that he would click with her husband and we decided to do dinner. And listen, it's not easy to get me to go to a dinner. Let's be honest.

It's difficult. It's so hard to get you. I think that's why we all clicked because I think we're all in the same boat. And you know, we just really got along. Sometimes we meet someone on this show and there's just an instant connection and I think that's here. And what I love about this conversation is I don't think Bo has done a lot of these conversations, if any. I think she's just started to kind of share more about herself, her life, her perspective. So happy that she entrusted us to do it here. So not only is she incredibly charismatic. She's a wife. She is a soon-to-be mother, which she'll get into. She's a survivor. And she's also an incredibly talented popular artist. She does American contemporary mixed media art. She's based in Los Angeles. And

And she just launched a co-brand with Celeste Star Jewry, which is so major and so cute, you guys have to go check out the Instagram photos. On that note, I am so excited to introduce you to Bo Dun and I'm excited for this multifaceted conversation. You guys are going to love it. Welcome, Bo to the skinny confidential, him and her podcast. This is the skinny confidential, him and her. I am so excited to have you in studio. Like, I can't, I'm so excited for multiple reasons, but the first. first reason is I'm sitting across from a Barbie wearing pink. It's a long story. See my Instagram.

So excited. Welcome to the show. Tell us a little bit about you. How you got into art, your childhood, you were just telling us about it. There's so many layers to dissect, but I think we'll start there. Oh my gosh. Thank you guys for having me on. As I said, I think it's going to be a very long interview because we could talk all day. I grew up in L.A. and born and raised in Beverly Hills, and we were just talking about, I guess, my private school experiences, but I went to a small private school here in, I guess, the valley, as you'd say, and Cleoless. From there, I went to Pepperdine, and I was always into sports or art, like one of the two. And I always felt like it was a great therapy for me.

So if I was having a bad day or whatever I was going through in life, I was like, okay, I was really good at sports and I was really good at art. And it was just a way of expressing myself or getting those emotions out. that's kind of where it led into, I guess, my 360 creativity of my career and entrepreneurial outlook on things. Okay, so before we get into that, you were telling me off there that your school situation, maybe it was normal to you. Yeah. And maybe even looking back, it's normal to you. But to me, and we're two hours away in San Diego, it's so crazy.

You have to tell us a little bit about like your elementary middle school. Yeah. So, as I said, I went to a very small private school and we had security literally at the gates of our school. And obviously we had parents who were celebrities or high net worth families with children. So for us, and that's been a huge inspiration with my art just because I realize it is normal for me, but talking to people like you or anyone that's not from L.A., like this is not the norm. And my husband, we were talking, is from New Zealand. So when I spend time out of the country, I'm like, okay, well, Oscar season isn't a thing everywhere else in the world or, you know what I mean?

It's like we get L.A. is like in its little bubble and that's all I've known my entire life. And so it's been such an inspiration creating art based on how I grew up in L.A. This question is so weird that I've always wondered this. So let's say you're at school, you're a kid. And like Angelina Jolie is a parent. And like with that like the Rock is another parent. Are Angelina Jolie and the Rock like hanging out at school and talking? Or is it like one of those things where everyone knows to be respectful of everyone's place because there are celebrities?

I think it just depends on the school. Like ours we only had 50 to like six. I think it was like maybe 60. 62 kids in our grade. So like, it was small. It was very small. So all, and I think it's gotten bigger, obviously we're a little older now, but I think it's gotten bigger since I was there. So I feel like all the parents were always together. You know what I mean? So it's not like you can kind of, there was like click. So my mom was friends with everyone, you know what I mean? And everyone's doing PTA together or sports together. So it just depends, I think, on what your children were into.

And, you know, the sports parents would be sports parents. But yeah, I think everyone was kind of friends with each other. You get dropped out of the PTA with only 62 kids. Like, your social life's fucked. Yeah, exactly. You said there's bodyguards outside the school that the school hired, but do people go to school with bodyguards when limos? Like, is it like Richie Rich? Remember Richie Rich with McCulley Colkin?

Like, that's what I'm picturing. No, like, no, I think people would have like Gwagons and rangeovers. But their parents are dropping them off in their pajamas just like everyone else. Yeah, totally. I love it. Yeah. That's really, but like, but then you also have security, you know. And then what is high school like?

Because what do you mean parents dropping in in pajamas? We take a bus. We took a bus. We took a bus. We still had buses at our school. Did your bus have like rhinestones? It did. I was literally just,

we think we're the same person. It was pink. It had like glitter all over. Like who's the bus driver? Is it celebrity? No, but they were in Couture. No, I was checking.

So high school comes and and Michael and I went to maybe a similar high school that she went to like where the high school. Like it's smaller. No, we had 5,000 students in our... But hold on. Yes, we have 5,000 students, but the cars that 16-year-olds were gifted were out of control at our school. Not every car, though. I mean, again, there were some.

Not my car. Not my car. Your car was pretty nice. Sure. But I think, like, I'm trying to compare. So did you have only 60 students in your, like, through your high school, everything? Yeah. All the way through.

Wow. Yeah. So it was a very small. So I think in it was like middle school, we got like 20 new kids and that shook up everything from lower school. So yeah, it's like. No, that is. I mean.

So, okay, this is my question, though. The cars and the stuff and the purses and the shoes in high school. But we had uniforms and that equalizes everyone out. That's true. Okay. That makes sense. But what about cars? Was it gnarly?

Yeah. You could tell like who had Mercedes and who didn't, you know, didn't. But it was like coming from L.A., this has kind of been the norm. and that's why I talk about this so much with my art. It's like the pressures, I didn't realize growing up because this is normal, but then going out of it and talking, you know, having these conversations, you're like, okay, this is not normal anywhere else in the world. And it's not just like a monetary thing.

It's like we live in the center of Hollywood, right? So it's like it gives a total different dimension to it. And what we were talking about kind of before air too is like what, how do you define fame, like what you do for a living, how successful you are. There's so many different avenues of that. So for me, it's like I got, you know, I travel a lot. And so it's like going and I do a lot of philanthropy. So for me, it was like, okay, seeing how everyone lives and like this is not normal.

So it was like I had to break that down talking about my art to figure out, okay, I grew up in one very specific way. And this is like wild. But like how, what were those pressures put on, especially young female growing up of having, you know, we were talking about like having to be perfect in L.A. or the weight or the this or the that or the success. And so for me, like, Barbie was the iconic kind of character. And a lot of people will say, well, why Barbie? And I was a tomboy growing up and I was playing sports and creative art, but I never was like super girly.

And now, of course, I think we're very similar. Everything is pink and rhinestones and glitter. But for me, it was like, she is so iconic because it's like she's generational, but she's so controversial. And it was like any generation you look at, but there's always someone talking about, oh, Barbie's too skinny, Barbies to this. There's no, you know, whatever the issue is around.

her and I was like she's the perfect person to or person I think they're alive when I shoot them but she's the perfect icon to kind of represent how I was feeling and talking about societal pressures on women and like every aspect of that and also I have a series for men too called size does matter and talk about societal pressures on men as well but I imagine like I think about this does matter Michael who are we talking we were just talking to somebody other day and I was like you know sometimes I actually at this stage of life and this is going to be maybe a controversial statement, I sympathize with people who grow up with very successful parents, whether they're celebrities or entrepreneurs or whatever, because it's a lot of pressure

for the kids to live up to, especially if you grow up in a place like L.A. with all these things. It's like if you don't hit like just like the basic, you know, level, which is a high level compared to the rest of the world. It's almost like the kid feels like a failure. And it's funny because I have that conversation and I think that's what's driven me. And I don't think it's a healthy thing. And it's funny. It's not put on by my parents, but it was put on me trying to be. I was like the first born. My brother and I are 10 years apart.

So for me it was like I had to come, I had to prove, but going through therapy and talking about this, I'm like, it's actually like my shit to deal with. And I don't know if we're allowed to swear on here, but you're allowed to swear. Okay, thanks. But it was like my stuff. It wasn't like what my parents pressured me. My parents, like, you can do anything you want. And obviously this is kind of the path that I've chosen.

But it's true. There is a lot of pressure. And I think it's like, it is a societal thing too, being raised and wealthy or successful. family. We were just talking to Patrick Schwarzenegger and Maria Shriver, and they're hearing. I was like, you know, Patrick Schwarzenegger as Arnold's son. Like, that's a big. Huge pressure. Yeah. And it's not even just like huge pressure. It's like, how do you compete with the governor of California who was one of the biggest action heroes of all time who was also like Mr. Olympia? Like what do you like, and a very successful entrepreneur. I think you don't compete.

But that's what, but that's hard for children. I think you don't even try. You just pave your own way. I think, I think it's also harder for men. And like, and, and. And. I think a male and father relationship is a tough one. And I think that's for a daughter, I felt like I was kind of in that role since I was an only child for so long. But I feel like my husband and a lot of people always, you know, we have a lot of conversations with our male friends. We're like, okay, like my dad was successful. I have to be like I, you know, so for me as a female being put into that kind of role. And I think it was just how, you know, just being born and then 10 years apart.

I feel that. But that's why I wanted to ask you about like your. high school and like how crazy like the wealth and the this and the pressure because it seems like I can totally see why Barbie was something that inspired. It makes so much sense. Yeah. So when what was your first piece of art and when did you decide you wanted to put your art out there to actually sell? It was like Christmas here today at Dear Media. I came in. I had a massive box of just thrived probiotics in my office. Massive. They're so nice. They sent us so much. And I realized there's no way I can take all these probiotics. I'm already taking so many. I can't keep up. They have 50 boxes.

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Enjoy. I never thought I would, to be honest, because I've been modeling and acting since I was 18 and my parents were just like, you obviously have. You look familiar other than art. Thank you. What did you act in? Would we know something? Yeah, I've been in a lot of stuff.

Maybe it was actually modeling, too, like in magazines and stuff. Yeah, I don't know. I've done a lot of stuff taking a break because I've had health issues in last five years and I had any injury. But for me, I always thought that was kind of the path. My mom was a big model back in her day. Well, she still is. She's gorgeous and we'll have to bring her on. So for me, I always thought that was my path.

And then I went to Pepper Dine and I was on, I was shooting a few pilots at that time, some TV shows. And so I didn't want to study theater just because I thought it was a little repetitive. And I was like, I want to study something else. So I thought art would be easy to be honest because I, as I said, always making art or playing sports. And so for me, I got my BA and fine art with an emphasis in sculpture. And I always love creating in 3D. And so that's where I started playing with Barbies and started ripping them apart, to be honest. I made this Barbie table, which you will love.

And it has a thousand Barbie legs on it. And was playing with like different parts. And I was like, it was interesting. It was so drawn to like the feminine. with my art because I was like, I also wanted to create stuff that I'd want to put my house, and that was like pink and grow really cute. And I kind of went through Pepperine going like, okay, cool, modeling acting is my thing. Like, I love it. I love being fun of the camera and just like, it's just fun. But I also was kind of realistic. I've never been the size of a, you know,

I've never been stick thin. And that's something we were talking about before air too. So for me, it was interesting because I've all, I've been very confident, but it was like my measurements were not stacking up. And I was definitely heavier on the box. bottom, then the top. And I was actually diagnosed with lipidema, this rare fat genetic disease for my dad's side. That kind of shocked me, to be honest, just because it's genetic. My aunts have it. And it runs in our family. But at the same time, it kind of empowered me, you know, I was talking about the emotional aspect of my art. And I was like, okay, well, I've been diagnosed with this crazy disease that has no cure. I cried for like a couple nights. And then I decided I was going to start a charity called Curilipa

and team up with the doctor who basically has dedicated her entire life to fat diseases. And with that, that's where I was like, wow, like, it brought up so much. You know how we were talking about like, oh, I'm so, like, I'm very confident in who I am. And I think that's just a personality trait. I'm like, this is who I am. If you like me. I like pink. I like this.

And it's interesting, like going through that journey and even talking at conferences and they were like literally like that conferences. And the feedback I'd received from women, there were just like, like, well, you don't have this disease. You don't look like this. And I got really attacked, putting myself out there to try and help others. Why? Because you just didn't have the image of most of the people with the disease. Yeah. And I got diagnosed super early. So I've been able to be as proactive where a lot of people, it's hormonally based. And so whether pregnancy, that could trigger it or when a girl gets our period or whatever. So I... And just to educate me a little bit,

or us a little bit. Yeah. How does this manifest if you're diagnosed with this? Yeah. So it's like lower extremities. So basically, It starts with, it's called lipidema or lymphedema. And I think a lot of people kind of know it from if you have breast cancer, if you have surgery, your arms, your legs may swell. And it's edema, which is swelling. And so lipidema is where basically it's genetic. And no matter what you do, basically you can't get rid of this fat.

And so I learned from an early age and I get a lot of these questions. And I haven't really talked about lipidema as much in my career just because it is a very sense of topic for women. It was horrifying diagnosis, but I was like, if I can help others and we can fund cures, you know, fund studies or we can, like, I can do anything I can to try and combat this and get that knowledge out there. But that was a huge, like, wake up call for me because it also, it broke me down going, okay, well, I've been diagnosed with this. Like, I thought I was going to be modeling and acting forever and this may get worse. So for me, it was also a big, like, retrospective into the emotional state of like, okay, well, you know, how many pressures are on us,

especially this is all I know living in L.A., so it's tough. I mean, to be diagnosed with that living in L.A., surrounded by... 18, 19, yeah. It's a lot. Yeah. So does that parlay you to be even more obsessed with, like, the Barbie image? Yeah, I think that was like a huge intro and into like, I was like, okay, well, she's perfect, right?

Or, you know, so skinny or this or that. And then it made me kind of look at. into the controversies of, okay, well, maybe she's too thin. Are we giving her a, you know, are we as society branding her as like a villain because she was made perfect and she's going to be giving young girls, you know, complexes or pressures or whatever? And so I was like, okay, well, she's going through it too. And I kind of related to her, to be honest. Wow. Yeah. That is like that. I know. Sorry, this is a lot of words. No. It's like, it's so hard to describe like how I was feeling and why I, you know, used her.

No, it's cool how your art has depth. And I was telling you off air that like I remember seeing your art like so many years ago and screenshoting it and screenshod. And there it's it's it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's. It's like Barbie is known to not have depth, but your art has depth. Thank you. And that's what's so attractive about it. I, I, I, I, I, and it's happy too.

And that's where a lot of people and we were talking before like I, um, um, um, I, um, um, did Chris Jenner's Birken closet, and that was inspired by my piece, need money for Birken. And like, all my work is tongue in cheek. And even though it is fine art and it's at fine art price point,

for me, it's like, I want to put this art in my house. And I want you to put those art in your house and I want it to be accessible. And I feel like the fine art world isn't as accessible, especially to young collectors

like you guys or me. So for me, it was like, okay, make art that I love, but then it's also, the social commentary runs so deep in all my work. So what is your first piece

that fucking blows you up? Is it Chris Jenner's closet? I feel like there was more things before that. Yeah, I had a show down in San Diego, and I did. So the launch of the Barbies kind of blew me up. It was just, it was very successful from the beginning, and just people really wanted them in their houses. And I think it was interesting. And I've gone a very different path.

And I'm very, as I always say, like, outside the box, just because I'm not just a traditional artist, because celebrities love collecting me and it's been the press. And that's not traditional for the fine art work. world. And so I'm, I meet like commercial meets the fine art world like blown together, I feel. But yeah, I feel the Barbies were kind of the first thing. And then I started my next generation series, which is the Neons. And it's the need money for. And that was another obviously social commentary on it started as a street art series. And it was, I had little kids, like images of little children holding signs like homeless signs that said need money for a Birken or Botox or whatever.

to talk about the societal pressures that not only are we facing as adults, but that we're putting on to our children. And that was a reflection of what we were talking before, like how I grew up in L.A. What's interesting about, I think, like, when you were talking about traditional collectors, like a lot of these guys, girls,

they collect it and you never hear or see it again, right? It, like, goes into some, like, archive, and it gets lost, which is kind of a shame, right? Because a lot of this art should be seen. I mean, some people put it in museums or displays, whatever. But, like, a lot of it just goes into private collections. You never see it. I think what's cool about your stuff is,

you get people collecting that also showcase it. Totally. And it's funny. Some friends of ours are some of the biggest art collectors in L.A. and they have, it's the craziest collection besides Kylie's collection, because hers is very us, like it's very girly.

From a fine art standpoint, money standpoint, everything, they have the best taste. And they have my Barbie in the middle of their house. And so it's like, it's fun because for young collectors who are like, okay, cool,

I want to invest in my first piece. And then I have the celebrity culture who Kylie has my condoms and my Barbie's all over her house. And then you have the fine art collectors who they do display them too, but or they may be in their collection. Who was the person that posted your first piece where you almost like, shut your pants and you were freaking out? Well, that's a funny story.

So it was during the Chris install. So we had some exclusives with some magazines and we were shooting the show while we were doing her Birkin install. We were working with Martin Lawrence Bullard. It's one of my favorite interior designers. So we had all these exclusives in place. And Kylie Snapchat at the whole. whole thing. And obviously like, that's what, see, that's, I said, where did, where did I first

see? So, yeah, so that, maybe it was that. So it was really funny, though, because people were like, were you, were you mad? I'm like, no, how can you be mad at the biggest platform? And from the fine art standpoint, too, it is funny because, you know, the Kardashians are the Kardashians, right? And it is one of the biggest platforms. And that's where doing the Burking closet with Chris was one of the coolest things. But it was like, from fine art standpoint, that's kind of poo-pooed on just because it is so commercial. And it was, it was, is going to be everywhere. But for me, I was like, I want my art to be accessible. You know what I mean? That's for me, I'm like, if there is a young collector, if there, whoever it is, like,

I don't want this to be like a world where you're not invited. Like in my world, like, anyone can sit at my table. Anyone can come up to me. Like I'm, a lot of people think too. They're like, oh, well, she's fake or this. I'm like, this is who I am. Like, you know, this is who you get, no matter what. I think that what you did is you disrupted the art. world with social media too though. A hundred percent. What you've done is you've done a really good job of merging social media, new age avant-garde with art that's supposed to be like so hoity tooty like for the rich and you've like

meshed it together. Thank you. And I think it's just like it's tough. I have like my personal Instagram and then my art Instagram. But for me it's like this is who I am. And for my personal Instagram I'm like and that's where I have most my followers. but it's like this is just what my life is. I have three French bulldogs.

Like this is what I'm going through. I have, you know, I've had this crazy knee injury I've been dealing with. So like you're going to go on that ride with me and art is a huge component of that. What happened to the knee? Well, it's a crazy story. But I fell off a zebra in Africa. Shut the fuck us. That sentence has never been said.

No. I fell off a zebra in Africa and that's how I hurt my knee. If you're going to fuck up your knee, at least it's a good story. I wish I was a little closer to L.A. though. Yeah. Could have been further. Hold on. Take us back. You're on a zebra. How are you on a zebra?

Well, I got to go a little further back than that. So my husband and I were a low thing. And we were having a big, it was 2017. We're having our big wedding in L.A. I love how she's still laughing. Was it pink? Was the zebra striped with me? No, I have photos, though. But I was in a really cute safari outfit with a little bowtie around my neck. So the photos were cute. But we did the Maldives for a week or two. And then we were doing an African safari. I'm a huge animal addict and philanthropist and everything. And my dream has been to go on a safari. And so we literally booked my dream trip of my entire life. And so we did the Maldives. That was great. We went to Africa. And we started in Cape Town. And we were literally starting the 30 days of safari the following day. A girlfriend. 30 full days of safari. Yeah. Wow. We were going to like 10 different lodges.

It was with Singita. Hopefully, Sinkita, please let me back. Is 30 days, in hindsight, is that a good amount of time or is that too long? Oh, I'd probably like want to move there. I haven't been on the safari. Yeah, I'm, I love animals. We got to introduce her to Boyd. Yeah. Who's Boyd?

Does he have animals? Can I just hear about the zebra and the falling off, please? So we, have you guys been to Cape Town before? No. Okay, you guys have to go. It's a really cool. It's really cool. But they have like a beach that there's penguins.

Like, it's Animal Central. And so this was like the perfect place to go into our safari the next day. A girlfriend of mine shot a movie down. Africa. She introduced me to the, I guess, number one animal wrangler of Africa. So any movie, any commercial, anything shot in Africa, this is the animal guy. He has all the animals on his, on his ranch. And so it's not open to the public. And so she did me a huge favor, got us in for a private tour. And they were shooting jackass. This was in 2017. So I guess I never saw the recent ones, but they were getting attacked by baboons or something like that. So they had

just wrapped doing walk, I guess doing practice with whoever, John. or whoever was shooting that. And so we went and we were playing with cheetahs, lions, like every animal. It was the best day of my life until it was the worst day of my life. But I'm literally like have cheetahs licking my face. And then we were doing cheetah runs. I got into cages with lions. And these animals are like, as I said, I'm a huge animal activist.

I'm a global ambassador for a bulldog charity here in L.A. Like this is, these animals live the life. And at the end of the day, the trainer brings us down to a paddock that has horses and zebras. And he literally just threw him. up on a zebra and it was fully trained. It's like a small horse, basically, but a lot wider and it doesn't have a mane because it's like very fine zebra hair. So I'm trotting around and bear back. I feel very comfortable. James, my husband is taking... And you know how to ride horses before? I do, but like it was like a mini, like, I felt very

comfortable. Let's just say that. It was not like, oh my gosh, I did something stupid kind of thing. But the zebra stopped. James taking photos from the right side and basically a... Get the fucking photo, honey! It's my Instagram! Get the good light. And a goat comes out of another paddock running towards us and speaks the zebra. Goats, you can't fuck with goats. They're always fucking around. I love goats, but this one was like really got me.

And so the zebra bucks. And as I said, I've always played sports and very athletic and, you know, it's a split second. And so rather than falling back and potentially breaking my neck, which I could be in a wheelchair, and I'm not even kidding about that, I jumped to the left. My right foot catches. I land on my left knee. It's a perfect storm. my knee explodes.

And like I'm not being, I'm not, like, people say I'm like being overdramatic. Like my patella, my kneecap rips off. I shattered all the carlidge and twirl all the tendons. So this was really bad. And this is day one of our trip. My friend just was telling me about his ACL. Is that worth, is that nothing compared to this? We have a baby on the way.

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little pillowcases, too. One-tenth or one-hundredth of what I've had to do. So you're in the middle of Africa. What do you do? We're not even in Cape Town. We're like three hours outside. So I turn to James and I say, you need to like, Helia back me out now. And we had talked before the trip of like, God, for anything happens. Of course, like, you know, the trip insurance, like, so expensive. We didn't get anything. We're like, you know, it was like $20,000 or something. It was crazy. So we're like, oh, no. no one ever gets hurt on these trips because they offer you with the safari or whatever. They offer you to get, and you're like, you're not going to get hurt on this trip day long.

Meet the fuckers thing. We're like, I don't need the insurance. That's just a scam. Oh, yeah. So the, of course, the animal wrangler is like horrified. He's never had an injury, he's never had a death. And I'm saying they're going, I couldn't even look at my knee. The thing is just destroyed. So they, he can't get a helicopter in quick enough. So we end up, we had a driver that day. He drives us to the closest hospital in the middle of nowhere. I thought I was going to die, to be honest. Like, I've never. felt more pain. Like, I'm tough and I'm very tough and playing sports my own life. This, I was like, I don't think I'm going to survive. But they wanted to do emergency surgery. It was funny. James runs into the hospital and goes, my wife fell off a zebra. The entire hospital came out to see who

what the idiot is riding a zebra because no one rides zebras. But yeah, I was in the hospital for a week. Obviously, safari is gone. I did another week in the hotel on blood thinners to be able to fly home. We went to back to Dubai because half my bags were in Dubai and I pack very heavy. And then we got back to L.A. And I literally landed off the plane. My mom came, picked us up from the airport. I went straight to Cedars. I've lived every single day with gratitude. And I think that's the thing that's gotten me through. And that's where people like, how do you have, like, you've been, you know, been diagnosed with so many things. You've had such a like shit health history for the last 10 years. I've been battling with health stuff privately. And for me, it's like, it could have been so much worse.

could have broken my neck. And so I think if you wake up every day with gratitude and I have a little gratitude journal, your mindset's different. And I'm like, okay, cool. Like, this is, pain is temporary. And if I'm in physical therapy or whatever it is, and I'm like, I cannot handle this. I'm like, this is temporary. I'm going to get through this.

When you landed, you just landed directly like on the knee. I don't know. Sorry, just use my elbow because I can't lift my knee up there. I think the knee just like the knee cap like ripped off. Oh, fuck. But for me, it's like I've literally like the brain body connection. has been the craziest because I literally learned, I forgot how to walk. Because you can't. So your body just like, it's okay, we don't do that anymore?

Yeah, but, and I'm in physical therapy every single day for the past five years and sometimes it's two a days. What? Every single day. Yeah. Literally every day for the past five years. Monday through Friday, I take the weekends off. Do you go somewhere?

Do they come to you? Yeah, I go to two different places. I go to Monarch and then I go to elite ortho sport. Elite has been, yeah, I've been with them. It's a lot. Yeah. That is gnarly. I didn't think I was going to walk, to be honest.

And that was crazy when we got back from our, got home from the injury. I was also going into our wedding in 2017. So we had our big bash, our huge party. Yeah, because you were aloping. Yeah. And so we were coming home to that. And we had like pushed that off so many times just because of our families and blah, blah, blah. And so I went through with it.

So we had to like redo my dresses to have my knee brace in there. I was in a wheelchair and crutches for our wedding. And it was a blast. I was like, I've had to like just have. to have a good outlook on everything because it's like I've gotten hit so many times. And I think, you know, that's something interesting and kind of chat about because it's like that way at the end of the tunnel. I'm like, I just keep getting hit health-wise. And for me, like the huge outlook and like the happiness in my life is obviously my family, my husband, we have three French bulldogs,

but also creating and making other people happy too. It's that this is my outlet that I just keep going to that really helps me. Did you create while you were down with your knee? I did. I started a lot of companies at that point. So for me, I couldn't physically make my art. And I have amazing production teams who was continuing with my neons. And a lot of people took over from that kind of stuff. As far as I ended up backing my publicist and starting our own PR firm a few years ago called Plastic PR. My company name is Plastic LLC. So I basically started some offset companies and whatever I could do at that point to kind of create in a different way. Very entrepreneurial. Thank you. So as you're going through this journey, you told me off

you were simultaneously diagnosed with thyroid cancer or is this later on? That's later. So I was diagnosed with Hashimoto's, the autoimmune. And so I knew that lipidema was always connected to hormone somehow. And that was through studies. And my doctor, Dr. Karen Herps and I have been working side by side. And that's who I teamed up with to do the cure lipidema. But for some reason, like, especially with the trauma of the knee, my weight kept kept going up. But I felt like I was really allergic to food. Like no matter what I, like, if I had water, no matter what I ate or drank, I was really sick. So I felt like I'd been binge drinking. Like if I, if we had a slice of pizza after this, the next day, I'd feel like I was

binge drinking and like, I don't drink, like I don't do anything. But it was like the food reaction was crazy. And for me, it was like the inflammation, the sodium just killed me. And so I knew something was off. And that's when I got diagnosed with Hashimoto's, which is a, um, an autoimmune that basically attacks your thyroid and your thyroid, a lot of, it's funny. A lot of my friends don't even know what thyroid or have dealt with thyroid issues, but it controls all the hormones in your body, especially for females. It is key. So that's what was kind of whacking me out. And so I got on hormone replacement, thyroid replacement, just so we can like, and I wasn't really feeling much better, to be honest. It was like the last five years of kind of trying to figure out. And that's why

I haven't really talked about it. It's really the first time I am publicly talking about it, because I felt like I couldn't really like lecture people or share my story. And, And I probably should have been more open with it, but it was like, I didn't know what was working for me. So I can't really like tell others what to do or share because I'm like, I was so deep in like just feeling like shit all the time, you know. You told me off air that they didn't give you like a stage. Well, that was later. So that's with the Hashimoto's. From the Hashimoto's, I went to new endocrinologist and that's your doctor for your autoimmunes.

And I needed to get an ultrasound in my thyroid to see this doctor. And this was last year in 2021. And this was in roughly around August. And so I went and got an ultrasound at Cedars. From there, my doctor calls. And this is my first time seeing him. So we're like on FaceTime. And it was during COVID. And he's like, hey, I just want to let you know that we found a cyst on your thyroid. And I was like, what does that mean? Like, is this anything to be worried about? And he's like, no, like you're super young. It's zero to five percent chance is anything. We're not going to do a biopsy within the next three to five years. We'll keep an eye on it. I was like, okay. And so that

night I couldn't really sleep and I was a little stressed out about it. And I'm like, if I'm losing one night's sleep. These fucking doctors, man. They just like, you can't. I mean, expect it was just like, okay. I know. But the problem is like I'm with like, like this guy is the best of the best. No, I'm not bashing him. No, totally. He's probably a very nice guy. But I'm saying, like, I think they see this so much. They think like, okay, no big deal. But I think, I know. And it's crazy. It's like, it's, I think it's just like numbers game, right? You're like, okay, cool. It's zero to five percent chances to anything. Nothing. But you're right. Like I just this weird gut feeling of mine. I think females, too, have this like huge

intuition. So I talked to my husband and my dad and I was like, you know what? Like, I'm a little stressed. And my dad's like, go in, get a check. Like, not even worth it. I was like, I'm tough. So I call my doctor and he's like, okay, a biopsy on your thyroid is horrific because they basically, and I was telling you before this, they put needles in your throat while you're awake. And I'm like, I have just had two. Lauren be out. There's no way you do that. Learned. I was like, I've had two knee surgery. I can handle this. This is nothing. I'm sitting there. I'm like, my husband's in the corner. I thought it was going to throw off.

But what do you mean needles in the throat? Like needles like just like like a little like like. No like and your thyroid is in here. Like how deep it's deep. Oh. But the problem is they can numb the skin. I'm feeling everything inside. Like I'm going to throw up.

Doggy about it. Oh my God. I didn't even think of that. Oh yeah. They can numb the skin. But they can't numb inside. But you can't move because you have arteries, right? And so they're poking.

And if you move, you're dead. So it's like this is no joke. So your head's like glued in. You're claustrophobic. And the dog. doctor was talking to my husband who's in health care about his business poking around. I thought it was a bad day. Let's just say that.

But anyways, I didn't think much of it. The doctor calls a week later and he said the biopsy came back in conclusive, which 30 to 40 percent, I know all these numbers, but 30 to 40 percent of biopsies come back inconclusive, nothing to worry about. He said, I'll call you next week when we get the results. It's like, okay, no worries. After the biopsy, I wasn't really concerned until his office calls me the following week and says, we'd love to have you in for, to talk about your results. I go, what the fuck are you talking

about? So I call all my other doctors. Literally, I call like eight other doctors. I go, am I going to die? They're like, no, you're told, you don't have cancer. You're totally fine. Well, thank God. I brought my husband with me at that appointment because, yeah, I got diagnosed with thyroid cancer. And what age are you at this point? I'm 34 now and I was 34 then. What, what? So this is so recent. How does this? Yes. This is so recent. How? And I, I, I, This is the first time I'm talking about it. I mean, honestly,

like, I commend you for, like, you've been through a lot. Thank you. When you're sitting in the office and the doctor tells you that in front of your husband at I black out. And this is after five years of,

I'm going into my third knee surgery. I've just had my second. I literally have not been able to walk for five years. I black out. One thing after the other. And that's where it's like the light at the end of the tunnel. And everyone's like, how is you're like,

how are you so positive? And I'm like, okay, grateful. I'm grateful. I'm grateful. I found this. I agree. The cancer thing knocked me out, to be honest, because it was like the cherry on top of like this crazy road of 10 years of like lipidema, Hashimoto's, like the knee. It's like one thing after another. And me putting on a brave face, I feel for my career or my Instagram because it's like I feel like I want to put happy stuff on my Instagram and it's like I don't want to get into that right now. And that's kind of how I felt and everyone around me is like, you need to tell your story. I'm like, how can I tell my story when I'm in the middle of the story? Like I need to survive at this point. Yeah. Like I can't. let people in to have opinions or have any thoughts because it's like I got to get through this.

I would be the same way. So after he tells you that you're diagnosed with that, what I black out, I think I passed out to me. What does your husband do? He kept calm. Can you imagine being like, no, I'd freak out. I was like, I mean, there's not a lot of things that freak me out. Like this whole business can go up in flames. I'm like, oh, shit, whatever. I don't say that. People are listed as my team. They're like, what the fuck? No, no. But your family comes first. your health and wellness. Even me, like whatever. But if some, like, I think that would be the, one of the hardest days of my life, my

wife or my kid. Yeah. That would be, like, that would set me over. So what does the doctor say to you after he says that? So that's the tough part. When you get diagnosed with cancer, you get a diagnosis. You don't get a staging. So with cancer, obviously there's different stages, right?

So stage one is the best. That's what you want. And that's like, okay, we just found it. Like, you know, but all different cancers are very different. What was interesting about my thyroid cancer was the doctors told me, it's known as a young woman cancer, which I had no idea about. The thyroid, it's interesting. The more and more you talk, if you start talking to your girlfriend specifically about,

oh, I just talk to someone about thyroid, three out of your five girlfriends will probably have thyroid issues. And no one really talks about it. And that's for me, it was like, I've had to get through this and get to the other side to be able to have this conversation. And also like the learning aspect of every time I get diagnosed or go through something, like I know everything about a knee now. I know how to rehab a knee.

I know how, like, everything about that. that with the hormones, it's like everything, something works different for everyone. So I can't like give you a recipe and be like, okay, cool, this is what works for me. That's not going to work for you if you have thyroid issues. So it's really trial and error. But for me, it was like the cancer thing was, I think just horrifying. If you get the C word diagnosis, you're like, okay, like, I can't even describe the emotions that I went through. I was for two months, to be honest, I was just in shock. Well, especially because you're so young and I don't think young people ourselves included, even think that that diagnosis is possible. I mean, we all know it that happens,

but it's such a small statistic, right? And also, the doctor doesn't give you the stage for two weeks? Well, until you get further testing done, yeah. So I call cedars. No, I'm calling. I called cedars. As soon as we left, you know, James was calling. And they're like, yeah, it's going to be like four months to get an appointment because COVID, everything's so backed up. You know, people get like touchy about this, but I think that there's so many things that COVID, you know, it, I'll just say Like the trickle-on effect I just say it

I just think that the way that now this is all like coming out and the way that they handled this is so fucked up because there's so many stories like this that probably just went amok or like undiagnosed or people couldn't get help and it's like I get it

we had a tragedy but like you can't you can't apply one blanket solution to so many other things there's look how many other problems it caused look at the schools look at this diagnosis like there's so many fucking things

yeah how long did you have to wait until you knew what stage it was Do you want to become more horny? How about balance your hormones? How about get some juiciness going in the bedroom? Well, I have an aphrodisiac, a libido booster, if you will. Moon juice.

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would have a connection specifically at Cedars because that's the doctor I really want to go to. He's like the head specialist for neck cancer specifically. So, and his name's Dr. Ho. He's amazing. He saved my life. You know, he had a two-year wait list just to get it, you know, for surgery for him. It's crazy. These poor doctors, like are trying to do their best. But with COVID, like you said, the trickle on effect of like the health system has just been insane. So by that next two weeks, let's say, I get in for all my scans because we've pulled, you know, a bunch of strings and I got very, very lucky. But yeah, I got in to see him. We did scans. The craziest part is I got vaccinated. a couple weeks before I got diagnosed with cancer, and we're pretty late on getting vaccinated. With the vaccination with women, we get inflamed lymph nodes. So that's the problem.

And that's in your breast, your armpit and your throat. So they couldn't tell if the cancer had spread because my lymph nodes were so inflamed or if it was because of the vaccine. And Cedars had said, like, that is normal. Like across the board,

they're seeing like long-term inflame lymph nodes because of it. So that was tough because we didn't know until I went into basically emergency surgery for my cancer if the cancer had spread. It was just like I felt like I was like walking into like every wall I could. It was like, okay, like first get an appointment. Then like there's no answers. There's no answers. Do you think that the vaccine made whatever was dormant in your body worse? I can't say for that. I just know that it really inflamed my lymph nodes. And so that's where they just couldn't tell if it had been the cancer. You'll never know.

You'll never know. So you just have to... You know, this is why I think so many people had a problem with the way all this came about. Because if, you know, like, say somebody like yourself is going through the issues you were going through. And they said, hey, you do this thing and you're going to get inflamed lymph loads. This is what we've seen. This is what we know. And like you said, the doctors did know a lot of this stuff.

Like, they should tell you that stuff first. Maybe you weren't the candidate. This is why so many people get so angry about this. It was like, there's nuances to all of this. People should have more information. Yeah. It's just, it's unconscionable that they don't. It's tough because, like, I was high.

risk. And then, obviously, then once I got diagnosed with cancer, it's like even more high risk. I had it. I didn't know when I got vaccinated, obviously, then I was going into this shitstorm, let's say. But I got very lucky. We got, I got diagnosed of stage one. And that's what we could stage before the surgery. Before you got diagnosed with stage one, though, were you, were you, were you, were? I was, I was blacked out, to be honest. Like, I would walk into physical therapy every morning, just crying. And, like, I'd sit there and people are like, is she okay? I just, it was, and like, as I said, I'm freaking tough. Like, I've been through the ringer, and this for me was like, just the cherry on top.

I don't know how I survived mentally going through this. So you go in to get the surgery. What do they have to do? Well, no, Monday. So the following Monday, or whenever I was having cancer surgery, Monday I have my third knee surgery. Oh, my fucking Christ. What? This is why I keep trying, learn, these knee surgeries, it's not like a small, like, these are big surgeries.

No, like, you have no idea. Like, I've had a full basic surgery. I begged for knee replacement. I'm too young, though. So I had a full knee reconstruction, which is 10 times worse than a knee replacement. So I go in on a Monday last year, and which I publicly talked about that, to have my knee surgery. On Friday, I go in for full cancer surgery. So I'm like, I'm going to back for your parents, too. They were probably freaking out. Yeah. My husband was just like such, like he was the one take, because it's hard with COVID. Like my mom and dad couldn't be there and James could as my spouse like be there with me.

That was one of the worst weeks of my life. So what do they do when they go in for surgery for a thyroid cancer? Yeah. It was very, very, it's funny. You asked that. It's very different than knee surgery. Because knee surgery, you're like going in. I have my knee surgeon.

We're good friends. He's listening to rock and roll music. It's like a party, right? Cancer surgery was totally different. Like, I had to sign away. I forgot what it's called. But it's basically all the paperwork, like, if I die during surgery, this is what you do with my body.

Oh, Jesus. I've never done that for knee surgery. And so for me, it was like, I need to have a will in place. Like, I don't know. Obviously, it's a much bigger surgery. And I had my full thyroid removed. I had the cancer removed and the lymph nodes removed. But it was like the emotional.

I just remember I was like signing the paperwork and I was like a zombie. I was like so tapped at that point. I was like, put me out. Like, I need a break. Yeah, I'm sure. Put me out. I need a break. Yeah.

Would ring true. Yeah. And I'm trying to obviously still run my businesses during all of this. and continue art sales and like everything else I'm doing. And that was kind of my outlet. But it was like, last year was like, put your head down,

get through this. And then I'll talk about it and help as many people. Like for me, I always try and include giving back in every aspect of my career or my life. So for me, I was like, let me get through this. I'll figure it out.

And then we can talk about it. And this is all during COVID. Yeah. This is literally like, this is, to add like that layer on top. This week was the week Delta hit L.A. And Cedars,

literally the day before I went into surgery, Cedar shut down because of Delta. So, like, it couldn't have been worse, to be honest. There's something that I want to talk about here that it's really important for women to hear. And we talked a little bit about this off air and you can speak more eloquently than I can. When you're diagnosed with cancer as a woman, from what I've heard, they do not tell you that you need to freeze your eggs or embryos because there's a potential that you cannot have children. And this conversation is wild to me that women aren't given that information. So they'll go through radiation or chemo and then they find out they can't have kids as opposed to the doctor saying,

hey, you're diagnosed with cancer, but I highly recommend that you freeze your eggs first. Maybe that's not first priority, which I understand. Yeah. I can only imagine going through chemo or radiation or surgery and coming out and they say, oh, yeah, you can't have kids too. Yeah. Can you speak on that? Well, I was something exciting to share you guys. So we're actually pregnant.

It's so exciting. Thank you. So, yeah, I started, and this is obviously the first time I'm talking about it. So I'm so excited. I'm doing an Instagram story, but I'm not going to post it today. I'm doing it for later. Okay. I talked to my doctors maybe like a year or two ago about potentially having children.

And obviously, like, we're starting to have those conversations. And I had eight of my doctors, I'll say I had zero. percent chance of carrying. And so when I fell off the zebra and hurt my knee, I also, I've had back injuries since I was younger, probably from sports. But I have a double disc replacement in my, or I needed a double disc replacement in my back that I've kind of offset with physical therapy and not, you know, if you don't have to have surgery or I try and do everything before having surgeries. So with my back injury, there was zero percent chance that I could carry. But the problem is I wasn't going to go, after all these surgeries, go have an elective back surgery. And on top of that,

that with the lipidema, Hashimoto's, all the stuff. All my doctors basically said, they're just like your body's been through enough. And this was before I got diagnosed with cancer as well. So we ended up going down the surrogate route. And I think this is something that Lauren and I were talking about of it's a lot of people think it's always fertility issues. And that's why either women go IVF route or surrogate route. But for me, it was health related. So because my health, I wouldn't be able to carry. And then from there, we end up getting a surrogate. And so I was, I started this path. And that's why we're actually late to get getting vaccinated, because we were going through IVF to do egg retrievals, then to obviously implant a surrogate.

But it's been interesting the conversations I've had just around that because it's, you know, a lot of people go, oh, IVF fertility, but it was like, this is a totally different path. And I say, it's a physical thing. Yeah. So many other people, which is really cool to kind of talk about and let out there just because a lot of people are going through it and not talking about it. But yeah, so I was really, really lucky that I got our IVF done, that we had an egg retrieval. We were making embryos and going the surrogate route because that all was done before I got diagnosed with cancer. So for my specific situation, I didn't have to even have those conversations because we already

froze the eggs. We already went down that route. But if I had not done that, as you kind of said before, I wouldn't have been able to to have kids because with my thyroid being removed, I wouldn't be able to go through IVF and pump all those hormones in your body to be able to do an egg retrieval. Here's a question. Should cancer doctors be telling women that or is that not even a priority? Like it's hard. Like it's such a, it's a catch 22. The problem is in my specific cancer situation, it was very quick into having surgery. Right. So I wouldn't have had the time to do IVF.

and a lot of when you're doing IVF for egg retrieval specifically, you're blowing up those eggs and pumping those hormones. And I can't speak. Obviously, I'm not a doctor and you're not a doctor. So we can't speak to anything that you're getting hormone-based while you're doing IVF, if that's going to be bad for cancer. So you'd have to have a doctor on to kind of chat about that. But I'm like, I pray and thank my lucky stars that we did all that stuff.

We did the retrievals before. And now we're having babies. Congratulations. That's so exciting. How, if someone's listening and they are freezing embryos and they want to do a surrogate, we've never had anyone on to ask this. Oh my gosh. How do you even?

I can't believe I'm the first one. You're the first one. Wow. Well, actually, take that back. Jen Adkin came on. I know, Jen. Yep. She did a surrogate, but we didn't, I didn't ask her this question.

Well, we've obviously had Dr. Gadir on here twice to talk about, you know, IVF and from this side. But from this side, it's different. How do you even go about finding a surrogate while you're going. through all of this stuff that you're going through. As you know, I am all about the scalp. I have talked about the scalp and how important it is to massage the scalp to grow the hair. Way, which you've seen all over Instagram, has a scalp serum.

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and you have shampoo and conditioner, you're missing out because scalp serum helps support the appearance of thicker, healthier hair, like I said. It balances and hydrates the scalp. And it also sues irritation from super tight ponytail. I love doing a tight ponytail because it pulls my face back. So I have to make sure I'm very careful with this. Also, make sure you're looking what's in your scalp serum. This one's all vegan gluten and cruelty free. It's 100% recycled. packaging. It has adaptogens in it, which is amazing. There's some chaga mushroom. Hyloronic acid for hydration and a healthy barrier. It's safe for color tested hair and chemical treated hair. The way to healthier hair starts with the scalp. Don't forget it. Shop weighs all new scalp serum by going to

T-H-E-O-U-A-I.com and use code skinny to get 15% off your entire purchase. That's the way.com use code skinny, 15% off your entire order at T-H-E-O-U-A-I.com, code skinny. I got very lucky. A friend of ours had went the surrogate route because she couldn't give birth herself. And so I got everything really handed to us on a silver platter as far as I'm very good friends with Dr. Surrey, who is like the IVF doctor of L.A. And so my brother and his son grew up together. So I got lucky on just a friend, like family friend standpoint.

with him. But from a surrogate agency route, our friend had used an agency and basically introduced us. And I would 100% recommend just an agency. I think I've had friends who've gone the surrogate route and they've used like their friend or someone that they know. But I like this route just because like all like even just the legal contracts, everything's super clean. So there's no questions asked. But as I said, I got very lucky. Everything was really gifted to us and kind of that path. way because it is a tricky one. So do you like text your surrogate and say let's go get coffee? Like how does it work? She's not in state. I can't say more just because of NDAs and stuff. Yeah, we're going to go see her next week for our 20 week scan. That's cool. But yeah, we text

out the time and she gives me updates. If she's feeling, we just started feeling flutters this week. So it's so exciting. So it's like every little detail. Like I got very lucky. I feel she's like my soulmate and, you know. Let me tell you something. You having a baby is going to be nothing. compared to what you've gone through. Really? I tell people, just we need so much work. You're going to be like,

this is so easy. Oh, my God. And we have three French bulldogs. So I'm like, three bulldogs. And I don't know if I forgot to tell you two. We're having twins. Oh, okay. I knew that.

You knew it. Yeah. So we're having twins. So we decided just to go for it. And so we're going to have a very busy house. But I think my life purpose has definitely been to have kids. And we're so happy. Is your dad going to make custom munchy?

munchkins or your twins. I hope so. We'll have to ask him. Tell us the story about how your dad invented munchkin really quick. Just like a side note tangent because that's amazing. Thank you. I know that you have a little one and you guys use it. We love it.

Yay. So when I was little, when I was a baby, I always wanted to drink what my dad was drinking. And he was a Diet Coke addict with those little skinny glass bottles. He basically had this brilliant idea of putting my formula in a glass bottle and he wrapped a nipple on top and I don't know how he secured it on. But I thought, I was drinking what he was drinking, and he decided to start munchkin there and then. So I think he, I'll have to ask him, because I was literally a baby, but he ended up getting a license from Coca-Cola and Pepsi.

That's how he started with these little plastic baby bottles. And now it's munchkin. I had to tell that story because we're just talking about babies. I want to talk about your art for a second. Let's do it. What you've been through is incredible. How has it affected your art, like, and how has your art evolved through all of these different things that you've been through? Yeah, it's been crazy. To be honest, I always looked at art, as I said before, as therapy or like an outlet. And I think when you have your passion, I guess when you move your passion into your career, it changes things, right? Like you guys run businesses and your entrepreneurs yourself. So you understand it's like the day to day of putting out those fires or being a CEO of a company. Like it's totally different than you just going to do art or you like going to play basketball or whatever it is or driving a car. You know what I mean? So for me, it was a huge transition. I always kind of looked at

modeling and acting as like, okay, that's my profession, right? Or like, I'm professional. I, like, I will show up for, I will show up timely. I will do my job. Art, it's a very, it's a, it was a tough transition for me because it was my passion now turning into my business. And that's been the hardest, to be honest, along with all this should I've been through, the hardest has been like keeping the creativity alive while also running, like the business aspect of it. And the fine art world's tough because it's unregulated. So I've had, you know, lots of lawsuits with galleries who don't pay. Like, there's a lot of the back end that like normal people don't see. And especially as a female artist, I just don't feel like I'm treated the same. And I'm not like, you know, I'm like not a diehard

feminist and all that stuff. At the same time, it's like there's a big difference between boys and girls in the fine art world. There's nothing bad about the fine art world. But it's like I had to be strong. It's had to be independent. But I also run my ship really, really clean. And like my business is like really tidy. And so for me, it's been hard just because, like, I want to be creative, but the business side has really, like, sucked me out, you know? So that's the tough part for me. And so how do you balance that? What do you do? I've had to, and it was also the struggle between the commercial world and the fine art world, too. And that, I think that was my biggest blocker going, oh, well, I don't fit into either world. Like, I'm not super commercial where I'm

going to go license my stuff and, you know, put it everywhere. And then the fine art rolled, I'm so outside the box and I'm just who I am. And so, I think it was going through the health stuff made me realize I'm just going to be unapologetically who I am and not give a fuck. I'm sorry for swearing, but it's like, I'm going to be me. And if, you know, and I basically, I pulled out of a lot of my galleries. I'm really going to go, I think, more direct to consumer just because like I get so many emails. And like, I want to buy. And now is the time, right?

I don't want to have my Instagram. So for me, it's like, I totally respect and I still work with my galleries and this and that. And I'm with great galleries now. but it's like I get so many emails from young collectors, like as I said, you and like around our age going, well, I'm intimidated to buy your stuff at auction. I'm intimidated to call a gallery because your stuff isn't available to me because I'm a brand new buyer. I'm like, I wanted to be like, I wanted to be accessible and that's why I'm creating it. So I'm relaunching my Bowdoin art website and I'm going to make it a little more direct-to-consumer and have the Barbies available. And, you know, you can inquire directly to me if you want a neon or custom stuff and more,

my fine art stuff. Someone asked me the day, they're like, what do you think the greatest lie in business advice ever was? I think like the greatest lie they tell people is that if you chase your passion, you'll never work a day in your life. And the reason being is like, as soon as you turn your passion into a business, it inevitably comes with all the work and all the things that come with with work. Yeah. And most of the time, you know, we're sitting in this office, what I do is like stuff I hate doing. And I, and I, the only reason I can do it is because I love what I do. And so I'm like, I can get through the shit. I totally relate to that.

But you get what I'm saying? There was a time when we, you know, like you start a creative endeavor and it's just a creative endeavor. But as soon as you start layering on the business, it becomes a business and it becomes work. It's tough. Because you love it is why you can do the work. But I think it's a bad lie to tell people that are getting started because inevitably when you turn any passion into.

But there's the honeymoon stage, right? So the honeymoon stage is perfect. And it's like, oh my God, startup life or this or that. And I love startup life. I love being in the trenches and being like, okay, cool. Like there's a puzzle of a startup of starting a business. I can put all those together. But the problem is then day to day running of it.

I'm like, I just want to be creative and have fun. I think it's the best time when you're starting. It's the hardest and best because then you get something in its scale. And you're like, oh my God, I'm like managing. I'm looking out of P&L and I'm looking at this. And I'm doing like, there's this lawyer and this lawsuit and this vendor and this version. Like, fuck.

Totally. It was the honeymoon stage when you did Kylie's glam room because that was so major. Like what was that like? I think the whole thing from an artist standpoint. the whole thing has been a honeymoon, but the business side is the top part. That glam room is just so good. Thank you. Oh, it was so fun.

I mean, that was like amazing. And she posted it everywhere. Yeah. Do you get creative when you work on a Kardashians glam room or is it her vision and you just execute on what she wants? No. It's just, she's a collector. So it's not like for me,

I can speak more to like the Chris Birkin closet because that was built around my art piece. but like it's totally individual. So it's not like, Kylie wanted to collect my stuff. She wanted me to come in person though to do the install so that it was kind of both of our vision together. But like her wallpaper with those like orange lips. Like it was so different than what I was expecting going in.

I was like, this is so cool. You know what I mean? And that was specifically put in for that. So yeah, I just for me it's like it doesn't matter like if it is Kylie or at my house. You know what I mean? It's really cool to see the art come alive. And even if it was like in your office, It is going to be in my office.

Yes. No, it is. It is. Sorry, Michael. My birthday is in a month and a half that we're counting the days. I have a feeling these are appreciating assets, right? They are. Trust me.

Okay, so you're working on this incredible new innovation of the Barbie. Tell us. So it's actually my 10-year anniversary of the Barbies. I'm not trying to update myself or the Barbies, but I can't believe 10 years has gone by. And to be honest, this was my plastic series. I had a solo show in L.A. I think around 2016, called Plastic. If you do a show, I want to come and tell me next time.

I will 100% invite you. So I had my solo show, and I really, I'm working on so many other series. So for me, I was like, Barbies are done, plastic is done. Obviously, it's who I am. And the neon series is always continued because I get so many commissions. And that one's so much fun. But I chose artificial, the most artificial hair colorings you can find is blonde around the world. And so I did mostly blonde in one redhead for the first.

series of the Barbies. The most requested pieces I get, and which I'm shocked because I get so many requests for custom neons is black Barbies and Burnett Barbies. And everyone comes up to me going, how do you not have a Barbie that even represents who you are? And I'm much lighter. I go darker with my hair. But I was like, I want a brunette Barbie. But I was kind of stuck with like, okay, obviously like my stuff is very limited. I do small runs and they sell out very quick. And so for me, I was like, okay, how do I give people what they want? Because every, like, like, I'm telling you at least once or twice a week I get a Barbie request for. And, you know, and I understand like they want diversity. They want a Barbie that represents who they are.

And I've had to kind of come through the other side. And especially after the cancer situation, I think that was my big wake-up call. I was like, I want to do a cancer Barbie that really represents what I went through. And I'm actually teaming up with the foundation of living beauty. They're a charity based in L.A. that give resources to women who are going through chemo and going through cancer treatments. I'm creating a cancer bar. I'm giving 100% of my proceeds from that to the charity. And I am launching a new set of black Barbies and a set of Burnett Barbies that will kind of represent all women.

That is so cool. I love it. Here's my question. I'm just going to ask you on air because I was going to ask you off there. So when you create these Barbies, like say we do one for the skinny confidential office, do we, do we just find the one that's most skinny confidential or do you create a Barbie? What do you do? How does it work?

No, so basically I did six Barbies for my first set and I'm going to do a small run of... So the Barbies are already done. So I would just pick the one I like that speaks to me the most. Or I have some big collectors who've done custom Barbies and it's not cheap because I have to shoot... No, that's probably like $100 million. I won't put you through that, Michael. I won't put you through that. So there's six Barbies that I could choose from.

As of right now, my first series from 2010 or 2011, yes, there's six Barbies and they're mostly blonde. You'll love them. And that's who... This is the series. but I'm coming out with two new series that will be coming out this year for the 10 year anniversary. And do the colors,

the backgrounds change? Are they different colors? Yeah, so this one, this specific Barbie has her specific background of blue, but they all have different backgrounds. And what are the other colors?

Just asking on her. So I have six. So I have blue, green, yellow, orange, pink, and I forgot my last color. Okay.

I love the blue because it pops her eyes. Can I ask you a random question? Like, what is the Barbie brand think of all this? Are they, like, pumped or they? Yeah, so it's Mattel, and I've had, my dad's worked with Mattel over the years coming from, like, consumer goods companies. So, and I get that actually a lot, especially from a fine art standpoint. So it is my photography of a Barbie.

I'm not actually selling a Barbie. And so this is my representation of, and I could take a photo of your phone and your wallet. You know what I mean? And so do you dress the Barbie or is the Barbie are you dressed? How they come. So I shoot a lot. This one's actually a newer Barbie because I mix new and old. but this specific, my first round of Barbies,

I mixed vintage and new, and they all have the original, so I literally photograph them. And a lot of people think I warp them or this, that's how they come and that's how I wanted. And especially for my two new series, because obviously you're going, you know, blacks and brunettes and Asian,

and we're going all different Barbies. But it's like I wanted to really represent how Mattel made them. It's not how I see them through my eyes. Right. And that's talking about going back to like, consumer goods, the pressures that are put on all of us. It's like, this is how Barbie is created and this is how I'm shooting them. I love that.

Amazing. I can't wait to see the other colors and the other Barbies to pick today. Michael wants to get a big, fucking checkbook out. Listen, I told him, I'm like, I don't spend that much money on handbags or shoes or cars. She spends no money, Michael. We need a Barbie. She keeps telling me. Every month she goes, I think someone stole my credit card.

I'm like, no. She's without failed. That has been said to me for the last. I said, oh my God, someone did identity theft. And we go through. My mom says the same day every week. I like actually think it though. No, no.

She gets all the accounts, everybody. And they're like, Oh, no. It's like full theft. And then you go ahead and going, Netaporte. Oh God. Okay, that was me.

Next time you come on. I want you to bring your mom because you guys seem to have a really beautiful relationship. We do. We're best friends. I bet. I'm sure that she gave you a lot of her charisma. You have a lot of charisma.

So I'm sure it's from your mom. Maybe your dad too. Yeah, I think it's 50-50. But my cheeks hurt from smile. I've been laughing with you guys. Well, good. That makes us happy. You want you left.

No, my mom. We say I'm the mom and she's the daughter. She is out of control. Let's have her on. She's made me to get a fire extinguisher. She's so wild. If you're out of control, this podcast is for you. Come on this podcast if you're out of control.

where can everyone find you, Pimp yourself out, where can they find your Barbies, your Instagram, how can they support you, your charities, everything you're doing, if they want to ask you questions

about what you've been through everything. Yeah, so obviously my Instagram is directed me. So it's at Bow Dunn, B-E-A-U-N-N, and then my art is Bow-D-D-N-N-A-R-Spelled the same way. My art website is bow-dunart.com. And I'm working currently,

I'm the global ambassador for Road Dogs charity, which is a bulldog charity based in L.A., which I'm a huge supporter of. And then the foundation of living beauty. And I also work, and it's going to be the cancer charity. And then I work with Art of Elysium as well. And that's more children in arts. And I've been working with them for over 10 years.

You are busy. I have a lot going on. I do, but I love it. It's amazing. I think it's so cool. I think that you're defying so many different odds. It's really awesome. Thank you.

Michael, get our phone number. No, I'm going to dive in. Bow done art. Bo done art. Find me. Thank you. so much for coming on. Thank you. And thank you for letting me be so vulnerable. Congratulations. Thank you. We have to end with that. Twins. Thank you. You got to tell me how much

work twins is. I think you're going to be prepping me. I'm going to be texting you about everything. No, really, I mean this. I mean, you should be proud of yourself because everything you've overcome and you've done. It takes a mentally strong person to do that. I mean that. Thank you. It's not easy. If I can help others, like for me, that's like the biggest reward. You know, it's like I'm going through all this, at least be able to, you know, be able to tell my story or. It's probably inspiring. I mean, there's a lot of people that go through a lot of shit. It's probably inspiring to hear somebody getting through it and keeping such a positive. I mean, like, when I first met you when we walked in, like there's, you, you wouldn't, you don't

lead with that is what I'm saying. Yeah. You would never know all the things you've ever come. Yeah. Thank you. I appreciate it. Of course. Thanks for having me, guys.

This giveaway is different. I'm going to do a bunch of my favorite beauty products, like a big, big bag situation. Like, I think like wellness, health, beauty, diet, all the things, all my favorites in like a big basket for you. All you have to do is tell us your favorite part of this episode with Bowdo on my latest Instagram at Lauren Bostick and follow at Bo Dunn on Instagram. I think you're going to love everything I've picked. I handpicked it. It's some stuff I use all the time. And I know there's probably so many favorite parts of this episode. I have a lot. Anyways, super easy to enter. And with that, we will see you next time.