The Bossticks - Ben Greenfield On What Actually Works For Longevity, The Biohacks He's Stopped Doing & Why Living Longer Isn't The Point

Episode Date: September 21, 2026

#1,008: Join us as we sit down with Ben Greenfield – human performance consultant, former elite endurance athlete, longevity and biohacking expert, a New York Times bestselling author, entrepreneur, husband, father, and one of the most prolific self-experimenters in health and human performance. Known for his relentless approach to self-experimentation, Ben has built his career around testing the latest in biohacking, recovery, nutrition, and longevity – and separating what actually moves the needle from what doesn't. In this episode, Ben shares how his views on health, longevity, and biohacking have evolved, what he's doing less of today, and why his definition of living life beyond optimizing the body. He shares the philosophy behind his updated book Boundless, the major life lessons he learned during the time depicted in his new documentary, Boundless: The Man Who Became Human, and how those experiences changed the way he thinks about health, purpose, family, faith, and what it really means to live a longer, healthier, more meaningful life.   For Detailed Show Notes visit TheBossticks.com   To connect with Ben Greenfield click HERE   To connect with Lauryn Bosstick click HERE   To connect with Michael Bosstick click HERE   Read More on The Skinny Confidential HERE   Head to our ShopMy page HERE and LTK page HERE to find all of the products mentioned in each episode.   To learn more about Ben Greenfield visit https://bengreenfieldlife.com to check out his new documentary, latest addition of his book, and more.   This episode is sponsored by Dear Media Join us for Dear Media by Day in Austin, TX on September 26th. Get your tickets now at http://dearmedia.com/events.   This episode is sponsored by Paula's Choice Discover Paula's Choice Peptide Intensive Moisturizer at http://PaulasChoice.com. Use Code skinny for 25% off your order of $100 or more.   This episode is sponsored by Branch Basics Branch Basics is available at Target, Target.com, Amazon, and http://BranchBasics.com. New customers can get 15% off sitewide now at http://BranchBasics.com with code SKINNY.   This episode is sponsored by Nutrafol Right now, Nutrafol is offering our listeners $10 off your first month's subscription and free shipping when you visit http://Nutrafol.com and enter promo code SKINNYHAIR.   This episode is sponsored by Granola Once you try it on a first meeting, it's hard to go without. You can try it totally free — head to http://granola.ai/skinny.   This episode is sponsored by Vuori Get 20% off your first order at http://vuori.com/skinny.   This episode is sponsored by The Skinny Confidential  Reduce puffiness and boost radiance with The Skinny Confidential Mint Roller, now available at http://shopskinnyconfidential.com.    This episode is sponsored by WACOAL Visit http://WACOAL.com and use code SKINNY at checkout for 10% off your first purchase. Offer valid for new customers only. Limit one code per customer. Produced by Dear Media

Hello, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the Bostics. Today we have Ben Greenfield on the show. So what happens when you spend decades testing almost every variable of human performance on yourself? Only to realize some of the things you thought mattered don't really matter at all. That's Ben Greenfield. And it's been about 700 episodes since we sat down with him last. With that, Ben, welcome back to the show. So I was telling you before we started that you're difficult to do these with, not because, I mean, we could talk to you about a million things for hours and hours. because there's so many rabbit holes. The last time you were on in episode 248 and 278 in February of 2020, August 2020,

those were some dicey times in 2020, right? Yeah, we almost got ripped off the airwaves. But since then, I feel like you got a new updated book, upgraded, updated, right? We call it. You got a movie that just came out. You got a million things. We want to know like all the cutting edge things, the things that we're not going to get thrown off the air for. But to start, what are the things that you're most excited about right now and what do you think's changed most about you over the last six years?

What I'm most excited about, I would say, like, first thing that comes to mind, probably because this is a discussion I was just having with somebody who was dealing with lime. And then there's microplastics and mold and mycotoxins and all of these things that we're all aware of now that probably human beings have been dealing with for all of time. but we just have better detection methodologies. And many of us are a little bit more orthorexic with a lot of time on our hands and, you know, access to advanced diagnostic testing. So a whole bunch of people have things in their body that they want to get rid of. And this whole field of like plasma phreasis, right, pulling blood out, filtering it, putting typically something like albumen back in and then an IV or like full body blood

filtration, which is super gnarly. You can do this in the U.S. But you go to Mexico and get all the blood sucked out of your body, typically via a catheter in your jugular. Have you done it? Yeah. It's my job to do all this stuff. I experiment with it.

Not because I'm sick, but I just, I write about it. I podcast about it. And then there's another version over in Europe where you can literally get like your body heated so the blood comes out faster. And then they add ozone into that mix. long story short is in the whole field that I'm in a lot health and biohacking this idea of like oil change for the body is kind of like the big new thing and there's I mean you can't swing a dead cat by the tail without hitting the clinic here in Austin that now does some kind of like

plasma foresis ozone biolysis like you sit down and you got a catheter and both of arms. And people are holding the bags up you know there was that like the bags look at all my stuff. Yeah, all the stuff they pulled out of my body. Remember years and years ago, this was probably really early, and you were probably switched on to this. But I think people thought it was strange at the time. They would talk about Keith Richards because he was, you know, from the Rolling Stones. And he lived so hard and parties. But they said he would go to like Switzerland and do these kind of things.

And it sounded like a fantasy. It didn't sound real. But maybe he was just switched on. That's true. That's the trickle down. It starts with like pro soccer and rock stars and then just kind of eventually comes down to the rest of the general pop. What's changed in the past six years? I would say, maybe not six exactly, but the reason I came down was for this film, which is about the realization that I had that this whole mountain that a lot of people are climbing of health and biohacking and looks maxing and veins in the abs or whatever is pretty unfulfilling in the long run.

and people are spending too much time on that versus the things that we know are truly fulfilling, like faith and family and relationships and totally getting like Disney cartoon esoteric on you now. But this really is, I think, the biggest issue facing the health world right now is people are like self-obsessed and also Barry carried away with self-preservation versus like generational preservation, legacy, family, kids, passing on your wisdom. Instead, it's just kind of like, well, how can I figure out a way to live as long as possible with almost like this attitude that it's game over when you die because there really isn't like a strong spiritual or family foundation that the identity is tied up with. And instead, people's identity is wrapped up in

like how fit and how healthy or how looks max. How do you balance saying, let's go drain our blood in Mexico from our vein through a catheter. Right. So then what you just said. Right. Exactly. Yeah. And you're asking like the intuitive question that,

that can be confusing at first class because, because you can see like some elaborate routine of cryotherapy and hyperbaric. And I mean, you can probably tell by my face, I had a spot A with a friend yesterday. And we did like non-oblative laser therapy. And, um, and when, when you look at it, look at a lot of these things, you can either be, it's kind of like three reasons. One, you can be doing them because that's what your identity is wrapped up in, right? Like, how do I look? How do I perform? How fit am I? What do I look like on Instagram? And how many tools and technologies can I use to maintain that

reputation and that look as long as possible? Because I never want to get old. I never want to look old. The other, the second way to think about it is I want to prepare my body to be able to be as impactful as I can for as long as possible for whatever purpose that God has put me on this planet to achieve. And so that's the whole concept of enabling yourself to put more life in your years, not necessarily years in your life. And then the third kind of baby end of things, which is the small niche I fall into is there's also the piece that I'm involved in a lot of this is like an immersive journalist. So I'm just out like seeing what's out there in the fringes of the health world and trying it out. And in many cases, a lot of these things that I'm trying,

like the blood filtration are not necessarily things that I would say to somebody to just go do to like be a better person. This is instead lime, mold, mycotoxin, long COVID, spike protein, like stuff that people really truly are ill with these days, that you would go off and do a more intensive procedure like that for. But a lot of the other stuff like hyperbaric or cryosophobic or cryotherapy or stem cells, it's to look, feel, and perform as well as possible, but not necessarily to live as long as possible. And also not because your identity is tied up in how you look, feel, and perform. So a big part of it is the mindset also. I think it's interesting, especially so for our audience and especially the ones in our audience who have been familiar with you for a long

time, I think it's really impactful coming from you because you have been somebody who's been at the forefront of a lot of these biohacking things and a lot of these progressive movements and a lot of these things that maybe people consider fringe for many years. For people that are new to you, I think, like, you having this realization, especially at a time now when like, you know, there's literally just an article in the Wall Street Journal about looks maxing and brand maxing. There's a lot of people. I think a lot of young people, too, kind of being led astray. So I think it's interesting because you've kind of climbed the mountain of all the things and seen all of it and now come to this realization. So the message is more impactful. Yeah, yeah. It's, it's,

So for me, it was almost getting divorced and almost losing my family and paradoxically all of what I was working to send the paycheck home to. I was losing because I was all over the world doing not just the biohacking, but speaking and performing and being on stages and chasing the whole like money power game pretty hardcore. You know, also tied up with health. I was racing Iron Man triathlon. I was doing professional obstacle course racing. I was basically by outside perspectives like crushing life, but then the home life was a wreck because I wasn't a present father, wasn't a present husband. So the idea is you not only don't want to get obsessed with these things because they can

draw you away from what we know is truly important and fulfilling in the long run. But then the other piece is that there's ancient philosophers or authors like C.S. Lewis or Pense's or Augustine who talk about this eternal hole in the soul and how there's like this, this infinite longing inside of us for something eternal. And you can throw all of the fitness and the health and the biohacking and the homes and the cars and the sex and the money and everything else into an infinite hole. But because those things are finite, you're going to be unfulfilled until you plug something infinite into the infinite hole. And in my opinion, the only two kind of like infinite, eternal things that we can interact with on a daily basis are a higher power and other

people, right? So those should be the top two priorities. And in the health and biohacking world, a lot of times they aren't. When did you think that you were going to get divorced from your wife? Talk me, what did that look like? When did you have that epiphany? That was about 11 years ago. And so I was traveling all over the place. I was kind of like my son's funny, older, big brother who would kind of like be around but I wasn't really like I was not um leading the family in the way that I do now and I can explain what I what I mean by that and I was also I mean even my son talks about it in the film he's like he would see me for one week out of the month and all the other weeks I'd be gone you know racing and traveling and training and like for

iron man and a lot of this racing I was doing like on the weekends I'd be just like out all the time. A big part of it for me was beginning to set boundaries. So not of the priorities, meaning like putting faith and family first, but also, for example, we have like this big morning family huddle that I started at that point to begin to bring the family together and just talk at the beginning of the day and to put myself in a situation where in the morning, I'm leading the family through a routine. And it started off with, meditation and breath work and prayer and journaling. Sometimes like a dance party where we just put on music and dance around the living room for like 10 minutes.

Now I read the family of the Bible and we pray and we talk about the day and how to everybody sleep and who's got the cars today and where and who's making what for dinner. And we have like a big huddle and clap, you know, like a family football team. And that's super special in the morning for everybody to come together like that. because I think a lot of families just like wake up and then it's kind of like ships passing in the night. So just this idea of like a morning party every day as a family. That was one really, really meaningful and change inducing practice that I started. And then same thing with family dinners. I was like, I'm going to organize.

I'm going to help make family dinners work. And I'm going to be there and be on time and make sure I bring everybody together for this fun like family. again like a party at the end of the day so we meet at the end of the day at 7 p.m. And we have father-son book club and I play the family a song on the guitar and we sing a song together and we all take out everything that we've cooked for dinner. And we eat dinner together and we play games during dinner for like an hour or an hour and a half and we do dishes together and people come over to our house for dinner and they're like, you didn't have to throw like a fun party for us.

I'm like, this is just like what the evening is like at our house. And that means that I've built my business more slowly. I get out a little less. I'm not on airplanes as much. But man, like the happiness and fulfillment from just beginning to bring the family together and be like the person who's not just like checking the thermometer in the home to see how hot or cold it is, but actually being like the thermostat in the home, like setting the temperature, bringing the family together at the beginning and the end of the day.

Like that was a big change. but all of that started like 11 years ago. Did that fix your marriage by you setting the boundaries? Yeah. And only working on private. That was a big part of it. Yeah. Yeah.

That was a big part of it because my wife wanted a man who was going to be a present father and husband and also lead the family in some sense. And we did a lot of other work together. My wife and I did. I mean, we, you know, I had to rebuild honesty. I had to rebuild, like, showing to her that I actually, like, really wanted to be a family man and wasn't putting business first or health first. You know, I eventually, like, quit racing, quit doing all the competing I was doing

because it's just, like, it's cool, but it's not as fulfilling as, like, leading the family and being there for my kids and my life. So when you switching gears a little bit here, when you now look at this after all this time's past and doing all the things you've done and you see kind of where the biohacking movement is here. And there's a lot of people that want to live forever. And I'm not going to call names out. If someone's been on the show, fine. And there's a lot of people kind of, you know, there's somebody on the show today says, if you hang on for five more years, you might add another. There's people that are like really wanting to extend. How do you view all of that and think about it?

Yeah, like terminal escape velocity. There's somebody alive today who could maybe be immortal. So first of all, if you look at the longest livid human being on record being like 117 years old or something like that, you know, unless you count the 250-year-old Shaolin monk somewhere, who they say is like super duper old somewhere, somewhere and then you see people saying, well, we're going to extend lifespan to 130, 150, or 180 or potentially even just like, we don't even know it's so far away, like potentially immortal. I think that there would have to be a ton of advancements in science for something like that to happen in any short period of time.

if you were to go get an aging test today, I mean, do you guys do like genetic, epigenetic test, aging clocks, they look at 12 different aging systems. So 12 different organ systems, all of which would have to be targeted and optimized to actually gain that amount of life extension. Because if one or two are failures, right? Exactly. So there's a lot of work that you'd have to do. But let's say that like in the same way that AI is rapidly advancing how fast we can develop pharmaceuticals. Like there's potential that, um, there's potential that, um, Um, as AI progresses and as we get closer to AGI that we, we might like unlock mechanisms that would allow humans to live longer and longer and longer at a faster rate than what I would expect. But then the question also still becomes like, well, why? Right. Like, and, and what's that life going to be like? Because in the Lord of the Rings, Gullum lived a long time, right? He wasn't necessarily happy and he was like living under a rock and, and a lot of people, Don't like him. You look like Golem when you're old.

Like, let's just call it a day. Let's just pull the tubes. So I think that if the motivation is like I was saying before, like creating more wisdom and making more impact and achieving your life's purpose, then great. But right now, what I see in the whole health and biohacking world is a lot of those extra years that you're getting, you're simply spending trying to live longer, like the five-hour elaborate morning routine and blood tests and two hours in a hyperbaric and 30 minutes in sauna and like always going to bed at you know 9.45 a.m. or p.m. so you're the perfect sleep cycles.

It's like it becomes obsessive and it sucks the joy out of those extra years that you're getting anyways. Like I do a lot of the biohacking stuff but I'm pretty reasonable about it. Like I might have an hour and a half of my day maximum that's dedicated to just like self-care or being in a hyperbaric or doing a workout. It's not over consuming your entire life now. Yeah. So I think you can have, you can still use a lot of these tools,

but I think you need balance. And I think the perspective should not be, I'm going to try and live forever and win the aging Olympics or whatever the website is that's up now for that. But instead, like, I just want to look, feel and perform as optimally as possible.

So I can enjoy the planet and be there for my family. What is the exact Ben Greenfield hour and a half by, like, biohacking. I want to know exactly. And I guess within that, what are the, if you've tried everything, you've done the blood, you've done the spin, you've done the thing. Like, what are the things that you're consistently going back to you're like, okay, these are worth it. And your hour and a half. You got an hour and a half. That's it. Let's go. Yeah. Okay. So two different questions. Um, the hour and a half piece, that's a super simple answer because I think that exercise trumps a lot. Like, I think

exercise trumps a kind of crappy diet. I think that, I don't just think that. Like research proves that if you're a little bit sleep deprived. Exercise can help to combat the effects of sleep deprivation. My formal background in training is in exercise physiology. That's what I have my master's degree in is exercise physiology and biomechanics. So I'm a little bit skewed or biased towards exercise. So about an hour a day is exercise. That's usually like 830 to 930 a.m. That's my me time, sometimes with my son, sometimes me. A specific modality or switches? It varies quite a bit. Yeah. And again, And that's just because of my job. Like, I'm constantly, like, trying out new gym tools and unboxing stuff that came to the house

and some new elastic band with Christmas lights and spikes coming off of it. But is it primarily, like resistance training? Is it cardio? Is it? The older I get more resistance training because also, well, first of all, you can get cardiovascular stimulus from resistance training, especially if you're doing things like super sets or longer sets to failure. But then I have a walking treadmill in my.

office. So I get like 12 to 15,000 steps a day. While you're working. While I'm working. So I'm a pro now at voice to dictation. Maybe you could. Um, you guys could get little tiny treadmills back there. Or like under the desk pergometers. I've seen those before. We're doing bicycles down here. Yeah. And so a lot of, I would say like 70% strength training, 30% cardio um that does not count the 20 minutes in the morning when I get up because I listen to the Bible in the morning and when I'm listening to the Bible I stretch like I hit the foam roller and I stretch and I do some mobility so that's kind of like extra time in the morning and then uh at about 1 30 or two I have like a half hour siesta and usually that's like in the hyperbaric or on a

PEMF mat or uh using a red light bed or like an ozone check chamber or one of these other biohacking modalities where I'm kind of like, well, I'm going to sleep anyways because I like to get up early. And like if I just push through the afternoon, I'm kind of hangary and done with by dinner. So afternoon, I have like a half hour of biohacking morning. I have like an hour of exercise. And then occasionally I'll do like a med spa touristy trip. Like I've been in Austin with the week or for the week with one of my buddies. And we've literally like every day been like doing IVs and hitting all the cool clinics down here and doing hyperbaric when we both did like blood filtration and stem cells and so occasionally they'll be like

you know like a big kick you when you were on here last time you told me that you were cold plunge saunting all the time are we still doing that sometimes yeah but that's usually like in the afternoon or the early evening with my sons we have this huge like 20 person communal sauna um we just hang out and we talk uh we read we listen to stuff and we also live on the end of the end of the end of We have a waterfront property in North Idaho. We live on the edge of a pond. So we have a pond on our property and we like go jump into the pond. Um, so yeah, I still do, I still do thermal stress, but like I consider that to be,

for me that kind of fits in the same category as like pickleball or tennis or like just like playing sports or hanging out with people. It sounds like you've almost integrated it into your life with your kids and your wife. And it's like, it's kind of like second nature. It doesn't feel so like I have to go biohack energy. Yeah. Well, it's, it's kind of like with exercise. Yes, I go to the gym, but like up until 100 years ago that like going into a fake box and picking up and setting down weights would have been dumb because you'd be like burning calories when you need to be conserving calories because most people had like outdoor jobs where you work and build fences and do construction and paints and whatnot.

So even the idea of thinking that all of your movement for the day needs to take place inside of a box is kind of I think flawed thinking that harms a lot of people who could be moving all day. And that's how I try to structure my life so that the workout at the beginning or the end of the day is an option, not a necessity, because you're like walking on a treadmill and maybe hanging from a pull-up bar in the door of your office or hitting the sauna with the family or playing some pickleball or whatever. But you still have to fabricate movement. But I don't think it has to be like at the gym only. And if I can't get to the gym, then I'm not able to exercise. Is there anything that you have left behind or think was maybe overhyped or things that you just don't do anymore that you used to do? Oh, for sure. Like, I wrote a freaking book on low carb diets for athletes. I was part of the faster study. I don't think we talked about this last time. But quick refresher, that was like the long-term ketogenic study on athletes, on endurance athletes specifically, where they had one group follow like, super high fat.

low carb and then another group follow standard medium to high carb diet like you'd see recommended by Gatorade Sports Science Institute or whatever. And the ketogenic diet group wound up rewriting the textbooks on fat burning because what they showed was that you could burn like one and a half to two grams of fat per minute, whereas before we thought you could only burn like one gram of fat per minute. And the reason for that is because if you follow a high fat, low-carb diet for long enough, you start to switch fuel substrates that you can tap into during exercise, which sounds great and kind of is cool for something like appetite regulation or endurance

sports. But the problem is that there's a ton of downstream side effects. Like if you don't have enough glucose for the thyroid gland, then you start to see a down regulation of metabolism from a thyroid standpoint. Guys, and this happened to me get hypogonatal, like low testosterone, there's literally like not enough glucose for the leading cells and the testes to make testosterone. Your joints start to hurt because you don't have enough glucose for the proteoglycans and joints. And so for an active person, which I think should define a lot of people, like you should be trying to have a pretty active lifestyle combined with a low carb or ketogenic diet that's kind of like originally a diet meant for epilepsy or diabetes or in some cases like managing some

kind of psychological condition where you want brain stability from fat burning winds up exhausting you because you don't have that bad down or right that's how i feel when i go too low-drawn effects yeah so i've shifted from low-carb keto is is just like the perfect diet to more cyclic low-carb so my diet now is i still keep myself in fat-burning zone most of the day by limiting carbohydrates I might have like a handful of blueberries, for example, with breakfast, but almost no carbs the entire day. So you're in ketosis. You're burning fast. You're training or upregulating the fat burning mechanisms. And then in the evening with dinner, I'll have anywhere from like 200 to 300 grams of carbohydrates. And what does that look like? Was it like sweet potatoes? It was like sweet potato,

yogurt, dark chocolate, glass of wine. I'm a big like berries, tubers, honey type of guy. I'm, I just don't do as well my gut with grains and bread and pasta. So I'm a little bit more of like paleo-esque starches. But the cool thing is, is so I like to work out in the morning fasted because I just don't feel good working out on a full stomach. So you're topping off your muscle glycogen levels for the next morning's workout. Carbohydrates help to produce serotonin, which is a precursor for melatonin. So you sleep better. I don't know if you guys ever wake up at like midnight,

to 2 a.m.ish. But if you were to wear a blood glucose monitor, mine ran out yesterday. Oh, thank God. I can't with that. No, no, no, no, Ben. I'm going to faint. And you got a thing in his jugular. Not right now. And you test your blood glucose. A lot of times that drop right there is a hypoglycemic episode because you went to bed without enough carbohydrates and or without enough food. And one of the ways that you, your body puts glucose into the bloodstream is by breaking down liver glycogen. And the signal to break down liver glycogen is cortisol. Right.

So you're, you're asleep at midnight and your body starts to turn out cortisol as a glucose upregulating. I think that's a very common thing for a lot of people. It is. And so when I was wearing the blood glucose monitor, like I've worn them on and off for years. I realized like almost 95% of the time, if I wake up between like midnight and 2 a.m., my blood glucose will be at like 70 or 75, which for me is low enough to be hungry. And you get up and you have a snack and you go back to bed and you're fine. So back to the carbohydrate.

But you're also going to get a cortisol spike at that time. If you have not had enough food before bed. So it's hard to sleep when you're fasting. Now, you know, a little bit of better living through science. If you were to take like Reda Trutide, for example, it's weird that GLPs have a little bit of a masking effect on that phenomenon. meaning a lot of people on GLPs can have low blood glucose at night and still not have nighttime awakenings. There's something about them probably related to the way that they interact with some of the

hedonistic centers in the brain that cause your body not to flip out or get stressed out when you're hungry. And then the other like piece of that would be like drinkable ketones. That'd be another example of kind of way to hack your way out of that. But the most simple, obvious example is like, a little bit of extra carbs with dinner and then you're going to sleep better and you're going to have a better workout the next day. And back to your question that got us down this rabbit hole, like, I used to just be like, yeah, carbs are the devil, low carb, low sugar, go keto. And now I've kind of got

more of this like cyclic low carb type of recommendation. What is your opinion on the GLP one? There's no one I would rather ask this question to other than you. Okay. So first of all, let's get this out of the way. I, you, you, use Reddit Trutide. It's good to start of the way. I have a freezer full of it. I think Eli Lilly is now suing companies like the gray market. It's sold for human research only companies.

So it's going to get harder and harder to get. So I stocked up because I inject a microdose when I travel. What is a microdose? What's the? So if you were to get a preloaded pen or a prescription for Reda Trutide, you would be prescribed like 8, 10, sometimes 12 milligrams. That is a, in my opinion, a megadose. I've never taken that much in my life, and I cannot imagine what it must feel like,

because if I take 0.25 milligrams, it still makes me a little bit, like, nauseous around my favorite foods, like a big smoothie or steak or whatever. So I inject Reda True Tide, probably an average of about three times a month, when I'm about to get on an airplane and travel all day long because I don't want to think about food. I'm going to be sedentary. I'm probably not going to have access to great food. So I use it as basically like a travel hack. And how much are you injecting when you inject? 0.25. 0.25. Oh, 0.25. But what's it. But tell her again what the average dose is like. Always. But the average is like 8, 10 or 12 milligrams. So we're talking about literally like like 32 times.

Yeah, like one 50th or more of what you normally take, yeah, or 32. So, but GLPs as a whole, I mean, if you actually look at a lot of the long-term human clinical research on them, which has primarily been done in diabetic and obese populations, they have a pretty decent track record for safety. They do quiet food noise considerably. And I think they're a great tool for someone who's, say, like, obese or addicted to food. or simply has food control issues. The problem, first of all, is something that I kind of alluded to already. I think the dosage is too high, right? The amount that people get dose causes them to eat so little that the recommendation

to like go in the gym, eat enough protein, lift weights is way more difficult than what it sounds like because it's really hard to eat anything on that dose. Like you get nauseous around anything, sometimes even just by looking at food. or smelling food, even if it's food that you like. And then if you try to go to the gym after you've not eaten for two or three or four meals, then you're flat. And it's hard to like put extra weights. I mean, like I worked out this morning.

And I had some yogurt walking out the door because we were just in a hurry. And I got halfway through the workout and felt a little flat just because I didn't have enough. I didn't eat enough like last night and this morning. I just, it was a flat workout. Yeah. No, just imagine if you just were skipping meals continuously because you're on this megadose. So then you start to see the sarcopenia and the osteopenia and the nutrient loss and the things that are now associated with the standard dose of GLPs. I will say that it is

kind of a myth that something like Reda-Trutide causes muscle loss. The studies that have looked at that, they've used Dexa scans. You guys have probably done Dexas scans before. Look at your body fat percentage and areas where you have a certain amount of muscle deposition, a dexascan is incapable of differentiating between something like intramuscular fat, like muscle triglycerides and actual lean mass. And it turns out that the tissue loss from being on a gLP, like Redisutide, is more of the hepatic fat, like the liver fat and the muscle fat, than it is actually lean muscle.

So it's less of an issue than what a lot of the news headlines have claimed in terms of the muscle loss on red of true tide. But it's still a problem on a standard dose. So I think there are a great tool. I think that they should be dosed lower. But the problem for a lot of people is that if you're getting them covered by insurance, which is how most people are getting them, like us three, like we interact in like the fringe health and biohacking world.

And people are like ordering them off websites and insurance. But like the average person is getting a prescription from their doctor for a preloaded pen and the preloaded pan that gets covered by insurance has to be at a specific dose. Well, I want to like weird rabbit hole. And the Wall Street Journal just covered this a little bit too. Like a lot of people right now are freaking out about in employers and employees are insurance costs.

But it's because of a lot of these specialty medications that many people are widely adopting. Right. All the costs are going up. So not only the employee, but the employer are getting nailed with insurance companies jacking the rates up because of. And it's largely because of a lot of these large dosages of these specialty medications. Yeah. Super efficacious, though.

Because you guys are probably seeing herbal supplements that say like GLP on them and they're not really GLP, but they claim to. Right. And usually they're bitter compounds because the way that you can increase GLP is by triggering bitter receptors in the intestine. But they don't hold a candle to actual GMUs. Your moisturizer should do more than just moisturize. Paula's choice peptide intensive moisturizer is powered by three. three times pro-collegeon peptide complex to visibly pump and support firmer-looking skin while delivering up to 120 hours of hydration. I will not put makeup on my skin without it being hydrated.

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I am booked and busy and I want things to be as efficient as possible in the morning. And I was introduced to Viori a while ago. And I just love how everything is streamlined when it comes to color, okay? I would go on and I would get the legging. I like the short one. I have basically all the colors. I'm a big fan of the darker colors right now because I'm still in the midst of losing a couple pounds. And then I also like how you can do a matching bra and a matching tank. It makes everything so easy. If you live in a colder climate, they have a really cute zip up hoodie. Everything is just organized with the colors and I like it that way. So what I do is I hang my Viori in my closet and the sets are all organized. So I'll do like an olive green set, a baby blue set, a dark blue set,

a white set, a black set, and I'll have it all hung and organized so I'm ready to go. I'll throw one of their cute sweaters over like my shoulders and I'm out the door. I'm good to go. Austin, it's very hot right now, but I still want to have a look, which is why the sweater is over the shoulders. They also have T-shirts. They really have everything and all of their pieces are buttery soft, which we love. They also wear well in the wash. Go to viori.com slash skinny and discover the versatility of Viori clothing. Not only will you receive 20% off your first purchase, but enjoy free shipping on any U.S. orders over $75 and free returns. That's viori.com slash skinny. I want my bra to be so comfortable. I don't want it to cut off my lymphatic system.

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Visit wallcool.com and use code skinny at checkout for 10% off your first purchase. That's W-A-C-O-A-L.com, use code skinny for 10% off your first purchase. Offer valid for new customers only. Limit one code per customer. I have heard that a lot of the peptides that are out there, and I'm not talking about GLP ones, I'm talking about peptides in general, are growing things. Have you seen anything like this in your experience? You're like plants, flowers?

No, your body. grow tumors. No, I didn't say tumors. I didn't say tumors. Do not. First of all, I know where you're going on. Hold on. I'll tell you what I think. I'll tell you what I think. I've seen some skin tags grow on people. Okay. I've seen let me let me let me let me let me go down a rabbit hole. Okay. If your hair is growing from the copper peptide, let's say what why isn't everything else growing? Right. I'm asking you these questions. You could tell me Lauren you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. I'm just saying there's, I, I have taken a peptide before. I think it was Tessa. Tessa Marillon. Yeah, I tried it for a month and it grew a rash all over my face. Growth hormones

of creedagogue. So I stopped. Yep. I'm very common reaction by the way. But if things are growing like that, what else is it growing? Okay. So first of all, the Tessa Morel has a vasodilatory effect and a rash is common in a lot of people, not because of growth, but because of an increase in blood flow. That's common with almost all of like the growth hormones of cretagogues, growth hormone precursors, Tessimerellin, seramerellin, Ipermerellin. Usually if you take a lower dose, that goes away a little bit, but a lot of people are super sensitive and they get like a niacin-esque flush in response to that stuff. I get that niacin flush from niacin, so that makes sense. Yeah, exactly. So certain people are genetically predisposed. But the growth thing, so the story is like,

let's say BPC 157 for example BPC 157 one of the reasons that it helps out with something like a an injured muscle or inflammation is that it's angiogenic and what that means is that it can assist with capillization like growth of capillaries and blood flow to specific tissue areas and that has been up it's been kind of like bandied about in the health world. that because it's angiogenic and because tumors need like blood flow and capillaries and angiogenesis in order to grow, that BBC 157 can cause cancer. The issue is that angiogenesis is not angiogenesis, meaning there's kind of two different ways that it happens. One is via a normal pathway triggered by something you may have heard of called VEGF, vascular endothelial growth factor, which basically stimulates the growth of new blood vessels. You'd get it after you do cardio. if you work out, if you do sauna. Some people get out of a cold plunge and they're like red like a lobster and that triggers

VEGF growth. Oh, I get that. And BPC 157 does that too. And then if you look at the type of angiogenesis that occurs in terms of capitalization to a tumor, it's a completely different pathway, not triggered by BPC 157. So there's kind of like two different forms of angiogenesis. And the theory looks good on paper. but then once you dig into the biochemistry, it's like, well, no, that's not really possible for that to happen.

This is why I bring you back. I need you to come on once a year. Keep going. With once every five years. With GHK copper peptides, so a lot of these blues, they interact with mitochondria in a specific way to increase ATP production. So like if you were to get exposed to certain photons of red light, right, that's hitting a protein in the mitochondria, triggering something called. cytochrome C oxidase and that's speeding up ATP production in the mitochondria, which is why people will use like a red light helmet. And then GHK copper peptide, like that blue peptide, that interacts with a lot of those same mitochondrial components to increase ATP production. But that's different than growth. That's more like provision of energy to an area that would need something like elast center college in production or hair follicle growth or something like that. I have no clue about the

skin tag thing. I don't know. What are your date nights like with your wife? My wife doesn't care about any of this. Are you talking like this to your wife on the date night? No. No. So she's not asking. No, because we don't talk about health and that and that's the only thing I can talk intelligently about. So who are you talking like this to? Your podcast? Like who are the conversations that you're having these high level conversations with. My podcast and my friends who are into health. Got it. Yeah. I mean, you're just, you're just such a wealth of information that it's like, you really have to like keep up and follow along. I love that for you. So, okay, so when on that note, because you have so much knowledge around these subjects, I mean, you've written so many books, this thing is like,

this thing's like, this thing is like, this thing's like the Mark Twain letter. If I'd had more time, it would have been shorter. When you see some of this, I guess, people getting into this movement or some of the new voices that are talking about longevity and health and wellness. What are you cautious about? Who are you trepidations about listening to? What are the messages you're kind of like, I don't know, just from your filter and your lives, especially for young people that are starting to get into this stuff.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, first of all, I mean, it's no secret that everything is monetizable. I mean, and so even me, like, you'll see Instagram posts where it's like, this is a paid affiliate Instagram post. And then I still do heavily curate and try and test everything. before I'll take on an affiliate and you guys are well familiar with the affiliate and influencer world.

But then beyond just basically clarity in terms of any bias or affiliate relationships, which is pretty easy to see or not see. If you see someone talking about a product and there's not a clear affiliate disclaimer, they are they really, really like that product, which is uncommon or they're getting money from that product and not saying so. So the first thing is just like make sure that they're. being upfront about the fact that they're getting paid. And the second thing is it is so easy now to use, how could I say this? Like use better living through science and then attribute it to

hard work or your program that you're selling, meaning I know a guy who makes an exercise device that he claims will give you like this great full body workout and get you yoked in like 10 minutes once per day. He's also juiced to the gills. But he doesn't talk about the steroids part. on, you know, like in his media or on his photos, just the exercise contraption. So that's the other issue. And sometimes that just involves like having an eye for the way that people look. Like I've, I've worked with people in, for example, like movie world, TV world, and you will see men's health magazine come out or men's fitness or women's health or whatever. And they'll give you the program that that person used to get ready for that film.

what they don't show in the article is all of the biochemistry that was also involved in getting ready for that film. And that's like, even as you guys probably know, it's like Tessimerellin or epimeryllin or or there's multiple peptides that can really accelerate lean muscle gain and fat loss. And then you delve into the world of testosterone and HGH and Nandro. And that stuff doesn't get talked about because it seems like it's like a shortcut. and also, you know, in many cases, not safe. And so if somebody has a body that looks too good to be true,

usually the body is too good to be true. How young are we talking with the HGH? Like, what are you seeing? Are you seeing, like, 30-year-olds do it? I don't know of anybody as young as 30 that I know has taken HGH, but I'm trying to, I haven't personally been involved in the transformation of anybody, like that young. But I would totally not be surprised if that's happening.

If we have guys like clavicular out there doing like testosterone at 14 or 15 or 16, and then all the people that follow people like that who are bury into the chemistry, which I think is a tragedy just because of the impact on fertility. It's like, do these guys know? I don't think they, how big of an uphill battle they're going to face against like having kids, which is I think they're mostly into magging right now. Yeah.

From what I hear of person like when I talk about mong. And I get that you can freeze your sperm and you have. but I still just think. And listen, I get, nobody wants to be mogged. We've talked about this on the show. Do you know what I think the best thing for- I mean, I'm kind of getting mugged right now because you're like two inches elevated.

I know, you know, that's-petal. This is, we're fixing that. We look like the judge and jury in Alice in Wonderland. You're pod-mogging. Well, but Ben, you've got, you've got glowing healthy skin from whatever skin treatment you got. So now I'm feeling a little mugged as well. Can I tell you about glowing healthy skin?

Because I think I found the best thing. Let's go. I think it's micronealing. hands down with salmon semen all day long. Once a month increases your... Did you know the politically correct term now with salmon DNA? I still am going to call it seamen. It's too good.

Once a month for six months increases your collagen production by 600%. Your skin does look great. What do you think? I mean, you've experimented with the law. What are your things? Are you micro-needling? So, yes, I have a micro-needling.

No, it's not a microneedling. It's a stamp. Like, I don't use the actual pen. I use the stamp, and I do that once a week. To yourself. And I use GHK copper peptide, haluronic acid, and exosomes. I knew you have some great. And there's kind of two different ways to do exosomes.

There are companies like Young Goose that have like PRP-derived exosomes in a bottle that you apply topically. There are other companies like the salius that sell like a box. of it. Baby four skin or something. You mix with haleronic acid and baby four skin, exactly. And this is the same kind of exosomes. They use like Korean skin care, which is huge over there. That's probably the biggest thing that I do. And then I mostly use, I actually mostly use Young Goose products on like their blue peptide spray. Because they've got NAD and creatine. And I think they're a good skincare company, full disclosure. They've advertised on my podcast before. And I've gotten a lot of product for free from them, but like anything I've tried.

Like I do really like it. And then if you would have asked me this question yesterday morning, I would have said that I don't do this. But as of yesterday, I actually did do like a non-ablative laser treatment. And that included new cells injected everywhere in my face, exosomes, salmon, DNA. And apparently my face is just going to say. started to peel off like tomorrow or because my wife's done like the full on. Have you seen the CO2 laser? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I saw. I saw Cameron's podcast out in your lobby. So she went to Cameron. She did like his full on like she's like, like she looked like a zombie. Yeah. Cause he's in.

Cause he's in. Cause he's in. I don't usually go anywhere near that. Like it's enough for me to do the micronataling plus the halioronic acid exosomes. Um, and I've started doing that like. a year and a half ago, and I think it helps. I took my placenta and put it in the freezer to go make the pills, which a lot of people have done.

But then I had a doctor take it across the United States to pull the exosomes out of the placenta. And apparently, only Michael and I can use these exosomes because they're from the placenta we created together. And I had them injected. Meaning legally, safely anyone could use them, but legally you guys can use it. Yeah, yeah. There are. It's like we made them. And had them injected into my face and vagina.

Yeah. And it was amazing. Have you ever heard of that? You've created your own placenta-fagi pharmaceutical company. Do you like that idea? Like mechanistically, it seems like a great idea. I mean, step one is you have to have access to a placenta that you've made. So there's going to be a limited population subset. But yeah, that could theoretically work.

It's approved by BG. It's approved. Well, theoretically, one of the mechanistically, it works. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, I got another question. I saw a little while back you were experimenting with your hair and hair growth. Yeah.

And your hair is longer too. Your hair does look longer and thicker. Yeah. I want to know one about hair growth and what you're doing. A lot of people are interested that. And two, what about graying? I'm getting, you know, I've got a lot more grays. You can't, maybe you can see it as much because I got the product in there.

But yeah. Hair striky, like for a lot of guys, hair is tricky because of the testosterone piece. because so many, back to the testosterone, like a lot of guys are on it now, and they're paying on your dose. You get the conversion to Dht. Genetically, a lot of people are more susceptible to DHT acting on follicular pathways and causing male pattern baldness. And so there's so many guys who are either on testosterone,

but then taking any number of different hair loss regression medications that also affect things like libido, mood, erectile function, et cetera. So it's kind of tricky. I'm like, if you want to have high testosterone, you may have to just like embrace baldness. Like just embrace your inner. Be bald. Being bald is hot. You got to just embrace it if you're going bald.

But you got to go full on, not just receding. Go on. And so then there's also the issue with just like the normally receding hairline absent of DHD issues. For that, I have done the same thing that we were just talking about for the face, like microneedling. I did a treatment with Cameron once, and I did a treatment with Austin regenerative therapy down here. And this is where they just like microneedle and inject stuff into the scalp the same way as they would into the face. Did it work for you? For like your growth. You tell me, yeah, your hair looks great. Yeah. And then. But I don't know,

your hair did walk into the room first. Daily, like what we were just talking about, these are like medical, thank you. These are these are like medical treatments. But on like the day to day, There are certain things that can increase blood flow to the scalp. The cheapest and probably most widely accessible for people is caffeine. You can actually take like coffee grounds and rub them into your head and then take a shower and caffeine can stimulate follicular blood flow. There's also a compound. I forget the name of it, but there's a company called Scandinavian Bio Labs.

And they make a shampoo, a conditioner, and a topical serum with this. it's like a vasodilatory, almost like a pre-workout for your head. And that one would be similar, but both of those would work better if you dermoral or microneedle or even just use like a fine tooth comb first. What I do is I do a fine tooth comb. This is almost everyone, just a GHK copper peptide serum that I rub in. And then I have a red light helmet on my desk. Is it advanced tricology, the brand?

That's the brand that I use for my copper. The one I have right now is called Oro, A-U-R-O. But there's a lot of them. And then what about for a lot of guys are, you know, people go gray, men and women go gray. What do you think about that? Is there anything to do? Well, GSK copper peptide is one. Like that is a coloring agent.

And then like a lot of the grayness that. So part of it is that when you produce hydrogen peroxide, those peroxides can oxidize in such a fashion that it can it can discolor the hair. Like you can whiten or gray the hair. and a lot of times that amount of per oxidation can come from dietary factors. So step one would be decrease your omega-6 relative to your omega-3 fatty acid consumption, limit seed oils, limit fried foods, yada, yada, yada, yeah, like the stuff we all know would cause dietary inflammation. That would be a big one.

And then part of it too, like this is kind of like back to, you know, the more esoteric, like aging discussion. It's like you will get great at some point unless you're, just decide to color. Part of it is just like own it because it's going to happen. But if it's happening prematurely because you have a poor diet or stress, one thing, stress can cause it. And then GHK copper peptide is actually a pretty good topical.

My blood work came back low on ferretin. And I started taking ferretin. What do you think about that? Is there anything that we can do to increase our ferretin naturally? For people listening, ferritin is an iron storage protein. Okay. So you could have adequate iron levels and low ferretin. And so even if your iron levels are sufficient, you don't have enough ferretin to kind of like portal it or carry it around the body.

Now, typically if you were to test and I'm not a doctor and this is not to be misconstrued as medical advice, if you were to test and have like low iron and low ferretin, that's where you go down the anemia rabbit hole. I had iron fine. Yeah, is this person like over training, over sauning, over enduring, over enduring. It's not eating red meat, you know, vegan, vegetarian, et cetera. That's more like the low iron, low ferretin pathway. The high iron low ferretin pathway can mean that you need more of the precursors that help the body to make ferretin. And in many cases, that would be things that would be rich in copper and methylated compounds and fat soluble vitamins. So this would be organ meats or organ meat glandulars, like, you know, like they make.

make capsules that are ground up liver and kidney and heart, etc. B pollen would be another example. There are companies that make copper-based supplements. A lot of times a ferretin issue, it does not mean that you need to go and buy a ferretin pyrophosphate supplement, which is typically like a liquid or capsule-based ferretin that you take. Instead, you address the underlying root cause, which a lot of times is a copper imbalance or a copper deficiency. And that's where you would increase organ meat consumption, use bee pollen, take a copper-based supplement, uh, not like GHK copper peptide, but like dietary copper. How do you not overdose on copper? Because I did that once.

You can test. I mean, the only way to not overdose really is to test. And you could do like a hair tissue mineral analysis to see how that, that'd be the easiest way because it's just simple and easy and you can do it from home. Um, it's also like it's, it's hard to overdose on copper on anything except actual copper supplements. Well, I drank out of a copper cup. Yeah. She was leaving copper all night. The amount of copper you get from like copper pipes or a copper cup or like an old

rusty Moscow mule cup that's been used for 20 years at the bar. Like that's way more copper than you get from a copper capsule or anything. You not get copper poisoning. That's a whole different follow. What happens when you get copper poisoning? You want to die. Yeah. Okay.

Yeah. So I need to stop the ferretin capsule and a, address the root problem, which is... The root problem is usually a copper imbalance or copper deficiency. Probably the best resource on this is there is a guy named Morley Robbins, and he has like an adrenal mineral mineral protocol and a big part of it is based on the link between iron deficiency anemia, ferretin deficiency, and common copper deficiencies or copper imbalances. Let's take a quick break to talk about Granola AI.

These days, everyone is talking about AI, but which place? platforms can you trust? Which platforms are right for you? Which ones are actually useful? One of the ones that I've found that we use all the time now in the company and that we swear by is Granola AI. Have you ever been in a meeting online and then all of a sudden the meeting ends? Everyone's nodding in agreement and then two days later you realize nobody actually wrote anything down. Nobody knows what's going on or worse. You're digging through notes trying to piece together what actually happened. That's why I use Granola. It's become an incredible tool for productivity and efficiency. So what is Granola? Granola is an AI powered note pad that makes your

meeting notes useful. It captures what happens in your meetings and turns it into clean, structured notes with decisions and action items pulled out and made easy to find. Granola integrates seamlessly with how you're already working. No setup, no configuration, no friction. What it does is it transforms messy meeting calls into something you can actually reference weeks later. Your notes become searchable, organized, and actionable. I love this. It's something I wish I had in school. It's something I wish I had earlier in my career because it is such a pain trying to keep track of everything, trying to remember everything. And again, this is not just for business. This can be for any setting. It's really.

really just a hyperpowered note-taking app that is going to give you a leg up on everyone else that's in the meeting without it. What I love about is it saves me time. I can't stand wasting time. If you're ever in back-to-back meetings, you're trying to remember everything that's going on. This is an incredible tool. And before I had granola, I was constantly backtracking, trying to figure out what I had to do, what I had to check on later. So if you're trying to get organized, check granola out. Once you try it on the first meeting, it's hard to go without. You can try it totally free. Head to granola. A.I.S. Skinny. That's granola.a.a.a.a.comy to get your time back. Go to granola.a.coma slash skinny and try it on your next call. I have had quite the hair shedding journey. After my first baby, I noticed that there was a lot of hair on my silk pillowcase. So I decided to do something about it.

Lots of scout massage, microneedling. You know I eat a lot of organ meat. And of course, supplementation. And the supplementation that I use for hair thinning or shedding or hair issues is Nutriful. It's a proactive approach, which is so important if you want to see improved hair growth like me. Nutriful is the number one dermatologist recommended hair growth supplement brand and it's the number one hair growth supplement brand personally used by dermatologists. And now the Nutriful woman's formula has been upgraded to its most advanced version yet. It's 100% vegan, biotin-free. And it comes in smaller capsule size to make your routine easier. Whether you've just started your hair health journey or you've been taking Nutraful for years, this update means that you can now get their most advanced support yet.

See, thicker, stronger, faster growing hair with less shedding in three to six months. Right now, Nutraful is offering our listeners $10 off your first month subscription and free shipping when you visit Nutraful.com in her promo code skinny hair. That's Nutraful.com, spelled N-U-T-R-A-F-O-L-L-com, promo code skinny hair. Join us in Austin for Dear Media by Day on Saturday, September 26. It's a full day designed to help you reset, refocus, and build a life that feels more like yours. We'll be sitting down with the Bumble founder, Whitney Wolf heard, to talk about what comes after success, when to change direction, how to make tough decisions, evolve in public, and build something that lasts. Plus, you'll have the chance to ask us for advice on the crossroads you're facing in business, relationships, or life. Get your tickets at dearmedia.com slash events. That's dearmedia.com slash events.

Look what we've got here. the new mint roller we did a new color way baby pink it matches with your ice roller and this for me is everything when it comes to travel so how i use this is if i'm traveling or i'm running out the door and i want to use ice on my face so i keep these in my freezer or my fridge just depends on what i'm feeling and then i'll throw it in my handbag so one side is a contour which is amazing so you're going to feel nice and tight and lifted and sculpted when you use this. And then the other side, bite size, is an ice roller. So this one you could use on your neck so you can feel refreshed and depuffed in the morning. I am obsessed with this because it's compact. It's like a compact ice roller

that you can just throw in your purse. If you have not tried our mint roller, go grab it now. Also, it comes in a little dust bag that we designed, which is so fun. You are all set to be tight, sculpted, and depuffed with the Skinny Confidential Mint Roller. Go to shopskinnyconfidential.com to shop the limited colorway now. This is a random question that I know you'll know the answer to. Why is Michael's nervous system so attracted to the PEMF mat? We can't figure it out. He wants to lay on that mat all day long.

I like the PEMF, Matt. Have you guys talked about PEMF on the podcast before? Like, do people know what it is? We don't really know what it is. We just know we like it. I'm sitting on one right now. It's so funny you brought up because I literally was just like at a clinic this afternoon getting an IV on a PMF mat.

There's some that are like the one that you're on, which is great. I have that one. And it's kind of like a low intensity PMF and your body's not like people can't see like you shaking and contracting. But then they have other ones that are super powerful that you can actually like feel like don, don, don't, don't through your body. Polzed electromagnetic fields. are what are actually passing through your body when you're sitting on or even near to one of these mats.

You don't even need to touch. Like it'll travel about three feet. It opens up ion channels in the cells and allows for better electrochemical balance, like a restoration of a negative potential inside the cell. Negative in this case being good, like a negative charge. So if you look at, let's say you look at an animal in rigor mortis, like an animal that's dead or an animal that's really stressed out. One of the reasons that the muscles get tight and stiff is because of a calcium influx into the cell. So calcium as a positively charged ion is going to throw off a little bit of the negative balance inside the cell and cause like stiffening. So somebody, not just animal, but like somebody who's got like a lot of cortisol and chronic

stress during the day, they're getting calcium influx into the cell. And so if restoring a negative charge helps someone feel better, then part of it would be cortisol. It's interesting because this is also why you can sometimes tell if you eat meat, like if there's an off taste, sometimes it's because the animal was hunted or or or or whatever is kind of gross to think about, but when it's stressed out. And so you want an animal preferably to die in a humane scenario in which they're not super stressed out. But it's that same rigor-mortis-inducing calcium influx that can happen to a human. And the other thing, this is super interesting, the other thing in addition to cortisol, that we are around a lot that opens up gated calcium channels in the cell. What do you think it is?

Wi-Fi? EMF. EMF and radio frequencies increase calcium influx into the cell. So now you take somebody and they're in chronic stress. they have cortisol release and then they're around and you know this is like all of a sudden the tinfoil hat discussion because it's an inconvenient truth for people. So many people like to deny that this that this is a reality but there there is not necessarily a biological free cost to your phone and your Wi-Fi router being on all day and part of that non-biological free cost is the calcium influx. So back to the PMF, if you go outside barefoot, go to the beach,

swim in the ocean, lay on your back in the backyard. You're getting exposed to a low intensity PMF naturally emitted by the surface of the planet. I'm like dying about this conversation. I'm dying. Hold on. Wait, hold on. I got to calm me down for a second.

You're like, I like the PMF math. No, no, but this is just interesting because out of everyone in our family, you do run the most stressed. You are the most attractive in that in the family. I have been telling you to turn off our Wi-Fi. And I've also been telling you... About EMA.

There's something that is in the house. It charges me up so hard and it's sitting next to me. And like that thing, like, it's dressed. Like, I need to get on the mat. That thing. Yeah. But also when we go on a boat or we go out or we go anywhere near ocean, he's... I'm always drawn to, like, the sand and the beach.

I like just from in the water. I like that stuff. But no, I mean, I think it's... Electrically, it makes sense. Yeah. Right. So Michael is restoring the electrical potential to his body. when he gets in the boat, gets in the water, gets in the PMF, Matt.

And that's one of the reasons that they're sold as health or stress managing devices. Okay, keep the tinfoil hat on. Okay. Keep it on. Yeah. I think one of the worst things you can do is charge your phone next to your head while you're sleeping. There's something that intuitively I just don't love.

Yeah. Well, it depends on what you're charging it with. Because if, so if you're charging it with a battery, then you're dealing with less, of the DCAC surges that would be occurring if it were plugged into like just a regular outlet. So is it bad to plug your phone in by your head? So are we assuming it's an airplane mode and like we're not worrying about all the other radio frequencies, 5G, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth? No one turns their Wi-Fi off and no one turns the airplane.

So I do. So first of all, your phone needs to be in airplane mode. And if you can put a simple, affordable, I think it's like 30. bucks on Amazon, Wi-Fi timer on the outlet that your Wi-Fi router is plugged into to automatically turn it off whenever you're not using it, like 11 or whatever, and then back on it at 6 a.m. Then you can just set it and forget it and not worry about it. The way that we built our house is we just literally like hard, because we just built from the ground up. So we hardwired all the walls with cat-8 metal-shilded Ethernet cable. So we don't even have Wi-Fi. So I don't

need to worry about that. But then the phone thing, so the issue if it's plugged in, and we're just going to say it's an airplane mode because automatically, yes, for the reasons I was talking about earlier, you don't want a radio frequency producing device a few feet from your head while you're asleep. Well, let's say you nip that in the bud and put it in airplane mode. Well, now is just like having something plugged in in general bad for you. And that depends on the number and the power of the AC surges that are occurring in your home during a night of sleep. That's where dirty electricity filters come in. You can buy them from companies like Greenwave or Stetser or Shielded Healing and you can plug

them into the wall and they reduce dirty electricity and AC power surges. And so this is the way that I have mine set up, even though my home is very well wired with metal-shoulded wiring. I still have a dirty electricity filter in every room of the house. And my phone is plugged in because I like to play white noise. I'm asleep. Why don't you just get a machine? I like using the white noise from my phone because my theory for this is that if it's the same noise when I'm traveling

versus when I'm at home and I'm not going to take a machine with me when I travel because I travel super light. And that's my phone. I can replicate as close as possible, like the sound of my travel environment to my home environment. And so my phone's plugged in, but I was plugged into a dirty electricity filter. Okay. So I think if the phone's in airplane mode and you have a filter, it's fine. Okay. Good to know. I would love to get a Wi-Fi.

Because one makes me hike across the house. Well, it's also like, it's like the candy on the counter that you walk past all. If it's in there and you wake up at midnight because you know carbs with dinner. I've never slept better having my phone in the other room on airplane. The biggest mistake if you wake up is to turn it on. It's nice to have it away. I mean, it's been a while now since we've looked at the phone in bed, but we're sleeping like because I think that is a problem that. I mean, when you wake up and you do that, you're sleeping.

It's not hot when I'm in my bed and someone's on their phone next to me. I don't think that's hot. It depends. Like if you guys have a show that you like to watch together. I mean, so. I like to watch my iPad instead of the big TV before. Like, if I want to watch a show, I'll watch it on my iPad. Yeah.

And it's a little, so we don't have a TV in our bedroom. But we, so basically, for example, we've been on an office kick lately and that's my son's fault. We have twin 18 year old sons and one of them saw the office on the airplane. That's low frequency. And he's like, dad, dad, dad, check this out. So now my wife and I are like, yeah, we actually really like to. So now we'll like play like 10 minutes of the office.

We had we had Oscar on the show, which is so tiny and so not fun that you can't watch for more than like 10 minutes. That's perfect. We had Oscar on the show, you know, it plays Oscar and then we had Rain Wilson on the show as well. We had both both. And we made him do like office skits in the office in L.A. It was like surreal. That's that super fun. I was just going to ask one more quick question.

What's the quick question? Just tell us really quickly about the house. So the theory is that your living and working environment is pretty important. And we've like alluded to that a few times on this show. You're an electrical being and and things around you besides just like people and their energy can affect you. So bright overhead LED fluorescent lighting and the low level flicker and EMF that that produces that can kind of be like a slow energy drain during the day. Air pollution, which multiple studies have shown can actually reduce cognition and reduce focus if air quality is poor in a room that you're working in or living or sleeping. And then water would be the third.

Can you actually go to your tap and pour a clean water? But then because the skin is a mouth, like can you shower and clean water too and bathe in clean water? And then the last piece, the electricity, right? Like how much radio frequency and Wi-Fi and modern, higher power, higher frequency EMFs are just rolling around your home all the time. So we wanted to build a home that's basically like the equivalent of as close as we, we could get to a pristine Himalayan mountain top as far as like the air, light, the water, the electricity. He goes it from the ground up.

It took us freaking, well, we did it like 15 years ago in Spokane. We did this. And then 15 years later, there's just all these new technologies. So we wanted to do it again with all of the new ways that you can protect a home and create a pristine environment. So we built in Idaho and the electricity is just like dirty electricity filters and metal-shoulded wiring and we have the building biologists go through with like the 18 different Ghostbuster meters that measure magnetic frequencies and radio frequencies and electrical

frequencies. The light is all adjusted for every room, but it's not like a Phillips Hugh system that requires Wi-Fi because we don't have Wi-Fi. So you flip the light switch on once and it's red light like nighttime and then you flip it on again. It's twilight, like what you do before bed. They flip it on again and it's daytime light. What's the brand that does that? Do you remember? There's three brands that do it. One is block blue light. One is bond charge. And a newer company that just started doing it that I think is doing it best is raw. R.A. Can you do this for me, Michael? This is what I want for Christmas. It's the house. Okay. And then the last, the last one is, so you got electricity, yeah, air.

I'm sorry, you get electricity, got water and you got light. And then the last one is air. And a lot of People are like, okay, so I just need a hub air filter, right? And those are good. And I actually get air filters sent anywhere I'm staying for an extended period of time to clean the room. Like the Jasper? I have a pretty big Airbnb that I'm staying at because I was there with my family and some friends. And they've all left, but there's literally still eight jaspers at the Airbnb. Like I'm that picky about air quality.

But at our home, we built in. What do you do if you go into an Airbnb and there's a glade plug in? A what? A glade plug. I don't know what that is. Like a plugin that's in the wall that's emitting. You know like the artificial scent. The scent.

The scent. The Christmas tree. Oh, that's never happened, but definitely not put in the backyard. Okay. So, so then for the air, and I'll finish up the home thing, you don't just want to air filter, which is the actual filter. You want an air scrubber to get rid of any mold and mycotoxins that might build up in the HVAC unit. And then you want air recirculation, which pulls in fresh air from the outside.

And, and circulates fresh air. So usually this would be like a local HVAC organization that can do this for you. And if you're just like renting, it could use something like a Jasper. Those actually are really good. But you want air recirculation, air scrubbing, air filtration. So, and the last piece is like low VOC, right? Like choose painting material, cabinetry material, furniture material that doesn't leach toxins. And that's what we did.

And it's great. Like you feel awesome. You sleep awesome. Like the only disadvantage is when I travel, I realize how optimized my environment is at home. So it's great. Tell us about the book, the documentary, all the things that you're doing. So the book, obviously, like, check out the book if you guys haven't checked it out before. Updated and Revised Edition, Boundless, you know, looks great.

A lot in here. I mean, you could spend, you know, half your life reading this thing. Yeah. But let's talk about Boundless. Good cure for insomnia. Yep. The man who became human, new documentary out. Let's talk.

about it. Yeah. I mean, that that was the thrust of the discussion that we had at the beginning of this show. Like, basically, I have a friend who is in the film industry and he and I talked about this story of the modern obsession with health and fitness and biohacking and looks maxing and how empty that is and also talked about the idea that, you know, I am one of those guys who has climb that mountain and been near the top of it. Like, like, like, not just the health piece. Were you the first clavicle? Fitness. I don't know. But, but, but, but I was doing a lot of that stuff and saw the light and shifted priorities and created happiness and fulfillment and reconnected to my family and rediscovered my faith. And so the documentary is kind of like a mix of

the super edgy, weird stuff that goes on behind the scenes in the biohacking industry. And it's rated PG-13 because there's lots of needles and blood and stem cells and all this stuff. But then it like in the storyline is woven this idea that that's not the most fulfilling mountain to climb. And so it gets into a lot of the things that we know from as flawed as they are, things like the blue zones like faith and family and relationships. And I didn't know that, I actually didn't know this documentary is being made until my birthday and the director showed it to me like in a private theater on my birthday and this was in

December. Director Caleb Applegate. Yes. Caleb Applegate. Yeah. Did you have a previous? Oh, your best friend? Yeah.

And then executive producer, Zach Efron. Is that the friend you're talking about? Can we mention that? Yeah, we mentioned. I mean, he's obviously the executive producer. He was, so he's also a buddy and he was up my house when Caleb like showed me the documentary in the theater. So then Zach and Caleb.

and I went out to dinner and decided we wanted to actually like produce it and and get it out on it hit streaming on Amazon and Apple on September 22nd. We're doing like a worldwide tour right now, which is one of the reasons that I'm in Austin. And then it just like took on a life of its own. In terms of the people who gave a bunch of money to make the film tour happen to some really big people in Hollywood seeing it literally like calling me on the phone at night just like with tears in their eyes, having been touched by the story. And so I had, if you would ask me like eight months ago, I would have had no clue that I'd be like having a documentary or showing it or anything like that. And it's kind of cool because my sons and my wife are traveling with me to all these

premieres and they're like up there on stage, doing Q&A's. So it's kind of a family thing. And it feels, it feels really meaningful. Like the discussions that happen afterwards with people who are like, oh, like, that's my life right now is the health and fitness stuff. And after watching that, I've realized that maybe, maybe I should be, you know, calling my mom or hanging out with my kids or like going to dinner party or. The reason it's so impactful with you in particular is because you're for sure one of the poster childs of the biohacking movement. I mean, you know that. And you've done all the things for such a long period of time. Like you've been doing this for, I mean, two decades now maybe, right?

Yeah. And I think because you've seen so much and had all these experience for you to like kind of go through all that and come to this realization, it's super important. Because a lot of people are getting into it and they're turned on it. And it's in, you know, it could be elusive. Yeah. Kama. You see a lot of, let's say in the case of men, like, you see a lot of, like, if year old men in this sector who have like six pack abs and great telemars and they're like divorced and like, and don't have, you know, much of a connection to their wife or their kids anymore. And I think that's sad. Like I don't think that's a happy place to be. Yeah. Or you see a bunch of young guys that are getting. You know, or you see a bunch of young guys that are getting. Yeah. And I'm. And I think that's a. Yeah. Or you see a bunch of young guys that are. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah in this, but it's like, it's for the wrong reasons. Young guys, yeah, who think that that's going to be the path to fulfillment. And that's a whole different discussion about rights of passage and, you know, us living in a society where there's a lot of, you know, grown up, you know, boys who shave and, you know, the need for that. And I think also to your point, like, you know, and listen, we've had a lot of these characters on the show, you like meet some of these people and it's like, sometimes you want to look

and be like, do you enjoy life at all? Yeah. Right? Like that, like, I think that's the other thing. It's like if, if you're not enjoying this limited time, I mean, maybe they don't that's a limited time. Yeah. If you're not enjoying the limited time on earth with people and your family, like, what the hell are you doing? Yeah, exactly. I mean, like, I, I mean, since I've been in Austin, I haven't gotten to bed before midnight because I've been, you know,

socializing and seeing people and making friends and, you know, watched The Odyssey last night and, you know, out playing pickleball till nine and, you know, out there on the courts for hours. And yeah, I think that it's not all about like being healthy and waking up and having your whoop tell you you got the perfect sleep score. You got to have a whole fun. Ben Greenfield. Thank you. Your third appearance on the show.

Where can everyone find you? Google is, it works because there's not a lot of Ben Greenfields out there. Ben Greenfield Life.com and the documentary is at boundless dock.com. Thank you for coming on. Thanks for making a trip, brother.