The Bossticks - Bryan Johnson - How To Defy Death & Slow The Aging Process

Episode Date: March 18, 2024

#674: Today, we're sitting down with Bryan Johnson, known as a tech billionaire who is trying to defy death using modern technology and 2 Million Dollars per year on modern technology and wellness practices. He is also the most biologically studied person in the world. Bryan founded Blueprint in 2021 to use a STEM approach to enhance health and slow aging, focusing on removing guesswork in self-care. Today, he joins us to discuss his story, why he decided to experiment with life and death, and shares the truth about how far AI has evolved in the past few years. We discuss the destructive behaviors that are common practice in today's society, the psychological reasons behind them, and how people can begin to live a happy life with longevity in mind.   To Watch the Show click HERE   To connect with Bryan Johnson click HERE To connect with Blueprint click HERE To connect with Lauryn Evarts Bosstick click HERE To connect with Michael Bosstick click HERE Read More on The Skinny Confidential HERE For Detailed Show Notes visit TSCPODCAST.COM To Call the Him & Her Hotline call: 1-833-SKINNYS (754-6697) This episode is brought to you by The Skinny Confidential This episode is brought to you by Primally Pure If you're tired of discomfort during your menstrual cycle, try the Cycle Soothing Spray from Primally Pure at primallypure.com/SKINNY and use code SKINNY for 15% off your order. This episode is brought to you by A2 Nutrition A2 Platinum is formulated for tiny tummies as the grow and develop. Visit a2platinum.com/SKINNY to get 25% off your first purchase. This episode is brought to you by Revolve  From last-minute trips to event dressing + seasonal refreshes, REVOLVE has you covered with fast two-day shipping and hassle-free returns, all on them. So go to revolve.com/SKINNY today to shop my top picks for the season. This episode is brought to you by The Farmer's Dog It's never been easier to invest in your dog's health with fresh food. Get 50% off your first box & free shipping by going to thefarmersdog.com/skinny This episode is brought to you by Betterhelp BetterHelp is online therapy that offers video, phone, and even live chat-only therapy sessions. So you don't have to see anyone on camera if you don't want to. It's much more affordable than in-person therapy & you can be matched with a therapist in under 48 hours. Our listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com/skinny. Produced by Dear Media  

The following podcast is a dear media production. This episode is brought to you by The Skinny Confidential. I have a hack that I do every single morning that makes me feel like I literally drink four shots of espresso. And this is what I do. If my kids are still sleeping, I will wake up, I will grab my dry brush. Cannot go wrong with dry brushing. And I will brush up underneath my heart, circles on my stomach, and then down on my neck,

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I'm telling you, your whole body care routine will change once you start dry brushing. She's a lifestyle blogger extraordinaire. Fantastic. And he's a serial entrepreneur. A very smart cookie. And now Lauren Everts and Michael Bostic are bringing you along for the ride. Get ready for some major realness. Welcome to the skinny confidential, him and her.

It was such a turning point in my life to realize that, that everything that in my mind is generating is just some process happening, but it's not me. I can choose what I do with those thoughts. I can dismiss them. I can evaluate them. I can challenge them. I can go with them. I can do all these things. And so it was that point. And so now, for example, the first three or four thoughts that land in my mind, I know we're going to be wrong on anything.

And so for me, it's an observation of amusement of like, what is my mind generating in this moment? And then I have to sort through them a little bit on the fifth or six. I finally get to some stable place where I can start listening to my mind. Before that, it's just trying to figure out what's going, what's even happening. erections, stem cells, blood transfusions, oh my. What an introduction, Lauren. Today we have a much requested guest. One of the most talked about people on the planet right now, Brian Johnson, for those of you who are not familiar with Brian Johnson,

he is known right now as the most studied person in the world. He is a tech millionaire slash billionaire, whichever one you want to say. And he is the founder of Blueprint, which he started in 2021. Brian has been making all sorts of headlines, waves, and media for all of the groundbreaking, dare I say, wild things that he's been doing in the process of unlocking human potential and longevity. There was a headline where he transferred his blood plasma into his father and his son. It was like calling his son a little blood boy.

We dive into this episode and really talk about what he's actually trying to accomplish here. And it is fascinating. It's so fascinating. I'm obsessed. is essentially trying to unlock the human potential of having the option to choose to live another day and defy aging. And I think many of the headlines positioned to maybe misunderstand what he's trying to do, which is really unlock more human potential and try to create a better future for all of us moving forward. And he really, and he'll say in this episode, does not care about what

any of us think about it in any way, shape or form right now. He only cares about what the 25th century says. And we talk about all of that on this show today. For me, I loved this episode because I didn't know what to expect. And it literally checked all of my boxes. He is so, he is so real and intense and amazing. I think you guys are really going to like this. Brian's done a lot of interviews, but I think this one is unique, even though it's on our own show. We talk all about his journey leaving the church and feeling oppressed with religion.

We talk about how he bought and sold Venmo and became a billionaire to then ultimately do what he really wants to do, which is unlock human potential, defy death. and aging, and for the first time ever, give humans the option to potentially live forever. With that, Brian Johnson, welcome to the skinny confidential, him and her show. This is the skinny confidential, him and her. I have the pleasure of being in this private group with Brian, and I read a lot of the stuff that you write. There's a lot of great people in that group, right? But one of the things you wrote today, and I'm not going to read the whole thing because

it is in this private group, but it says, my ideas and efforts are, you know, 99% misunderstood. I think that's a good place to start this podcast. So for those that are tuning in and have maybe read the headlines and seeing all the things that you're doing and blood transfusions and supplements and all the, why do you believe that 99% of the things are doing are misunderstood? If you look back through history and you look at any given age, you can identify people who try to see the most ambitious thing they could do in that given time. So in the 1500s, it was Magellan who said, I can circumnavigate the globe. That navigation and and the tools, instruments of navigation were there. And if you go through other centuries and

in the 1870s, it could be the discovery of germs as these microscopic objects that were causing infection and death. And so if you walk through the centuries and say, right place, right time, right idea, right ambition, if you were to say in 2024, what is the, most ambitious thing we could do as a species and death. That for the first time in 4.5 billion years on this planet, that intelligence has arrived at a point where it has the capabilities where you can say that it is possible that we may be able to extend our lives on some unknown horizon. that's even five years ago or even 10 years ago, that wasn't possible to make that statement.

You know, you could say in the 70s, it was our ambition is to go to the moon, which was unthinkable in that moment of time. And then of recent years, it's been, well, we're going to go a bit further and we're going to go to Mars. But it wasn't possible for us to ever contend and say, we think death should be our focus. And that's what my endeavor is about. But the headlines, of course, they highlight things that are resonant and get clicks. but it definitely does not understand what I'm trying to do. I think people are scared of people who think so outside of the box. I think it scares them.

And so the headlines are them trying to put you back in the box so they can understand you. That's exactly right. That was my message in the group this morning is that we were having a discussion about people, not about certain innovators not being understood. Yeah, we were talking specifically about Elon Musk, and we were in the group, you know, however you feel about him and his beliefs personally, it was like, the group was debating, like,

is there a discussion just on what he's trying to accomplish as an individual that is really like a one-of-one? Like, there's no other Elon that is doing what he's doing in tech, and similar to you, like, you're probably a one-of-one in what you're doing. and we get caught in the minutia of all the things or the beliefs or what people say or whatever political strife. And I think it disables us from like stepping back and actually looking at what the person is trying to accomplish or has accomplished. And that's like human nature. But it distracts from what I think the main point of the discussion should be, which is what is this person actually working on and how can it either benefit or hurt humanity.

Yeah. Yeah. And there was a comment also of like why, where's the hate coming from, or at least some of the sources, and why does that hate exist? And a person in the group made the observation that it's a very primitive game where some people work within the system or within the state and they want to exercise power over other people. And sometimes others, like entrepreneurs, want to build their own thing so that the state can't

have power upon them. They want to build around the system. And so I made the observation that I concur with that and that what I've tried to do is I've tried to say of all the forces that could constrain me, the state is one, you know, definitely, but also self is another. And so I am my own worst enemy, even more so than the state. And so I've tried through this endeavor to basically say, what are the strongest forces in existence that keep me down or that prevent me from being my best self or allow me to see, you know, what is the most ambitious to be. one could do in 2024 and actually go after it. And so I was trying to acknowledge that it's not all a game solely of pointing and blaming. It's also one of introspection. What have you found are the things that you have to block out? I would assume public opinion is one of them. Yeah, I mean, I only,

I only care what the 25th century thinks of me. I could care less about what people think of me right now. because, and that's based upon good data. You read biographies and you look at any innovator of any era and you see how they were treated in their time. They were considered crazy and eccentric and stupid. And then eventually, you know, over time, we come to view them as pioneers and visionaries and we just accept what they do as common sense. And so the reaction of a person's time and place is almost if you, it's, you should discredit

entirely. And if anything, it's a positive signal that something may be. be on the right direction. And so, yeah, I really, when people criticize me, it means nothing to me. Were you always like that since you were a little boy? No, I've really had to grow and learn how to do this because I, like most of us, it feels nice to be respected and loved and included in community, and it feels bad to be excluded and ostracized. And so, yeah, it's really been a long journey to try to get myself in the right mind state for that. But it seems like it's also.

to me it must be liberating to not have to be in group think. Exactly. This is, yeah, so that's the point. So I shared this last night, someone did a video on YouTube and it was this guy who was interviewing his friend who was wearing a dog head mask. It was like interviewing a dog. And so for 30 minutes, they're making these observations about me and what I do in life. And it was something like 100 inaccurate statements about me.

and it was just amazing that these two people were having this conversation and everything they said was factually incorrect, which is fine. But that's how, so you have to understand that when people are expressing opinions, but that's what's happening in friends and family conversation. Like when people dunk on me, that's exactly what they're saying. So I said, how funny would it be if I did a response video? And just like, you know, not to tear them down, not to be negative, but just to say like, just so you're aware that when you're in society and your expressing these viewpoints. And if you're so far off here, it could be the case that's the same somewhere else. And so you definitely don't want to be in a situation where you're working with bad information. Nobody wants bad information. That's not helpful to them. It's not helpful to me for any one of us. And so I thought it'd be helpful and fun, maybe constructive, I don't know. I'd love to go back a little bit with you because, and we've done our research and talk about kind of your upbringing a little bit. It sounds like there was a lot of religion and maybe you didn't always think this way or feel is liberated to just be yourself. And I'd love to just learn

a little bit more about your childhood and what you were like growing up. Yeah, I guess my life has been like one successive dismantling of reality after another one. I was born into this religious environment and it was a situation where they said, this is reality. Every other reality is false. And your responsibility is to explain to those people who are in air, why we're right and why they're wrong. And so that's the entirety of my existence of like good and bad, right and wrong. And so it took, you know, once you're in that world, unless you've been in it, you don't understand how deep that psychology goes. Especially when you're a young child. Exactly. Like you're in the womb, like in the womb or even before. And so I left the church,

but not until after I went through a few other crises where, for example, I started learning behavioral psychology and I started learning about the 188 cognitive biases that we have. So our minds play tricks on us, like confirmation bias. It's like, I'm going out to form my own opinion and you find the first thing and it confirms your bias. You're like, God damn it, I knew it. I knew I was right. Sounds like you. I walk by a mirror and like, God damn it, you do look at it. Yeah. So then like I discovered that I am irrational. I am hypocrites. I am, like I'm a disaster of cognition.

But when do you realize that? Like, because I think not a lot of people come to that realization. The majority of people don't come to that realization. My early 20s. Okay. And so then it became the shocking reality because I wasn't aware that I was hypocritical and I was inconsistent. And then when I learned this and I started seeing that my behaviors, I was like this

mind-boggling experience of, wait a second, this is happening the entire time and I haven't known it. That's scary that my self-awareness didn't capture. this larger range. And so that was like the second hit where it's like, okay, I can't trust this reality I've been in. I can't trust my mind. Then I got chronically depressed and my mind started saying that life is hopeless. You know, you should probably kill yourself. And then I had to, like when those thoughts are landing all the time, who's making those thoughts? Is it me? Is it something else? Do I listen to them? Do I do? Do I not? How do I know if it's a depressive

thought or a real thought? What is a real thought? So then I had to contend with where is this coming from of what's happening. So then it further confirms, like, my mind is not a trustworthy source. And so I walked through all these experiences in life, and I finally arrived, you know, like 10 years ago, where I don't know if there's a starting point to trust much of anything outside of maybe basics like math and physics and things that are structurally sound. When you got depressed, how did you know that, like, how did you know to take yourself out of it to realize that your mind could play tricks on you? Like, that's, that's pretty, deep. It is. To be young and understand that, it's almost like you have to have some level of

intelligence that a lot of us don't maybe have. Yeah, you know, I wish there was some basic educational standards we had as a society, and one of those would be you are not your thoughts. It was such a turning point in my life to realize that, that everything that in my mind is generating is just some process happening, but it's not me. I can choose what I do with those thoughts. I can dismiss them. I can evaluate them. I can challenge them. I can go with them. I can do all these things. And so it was that point. And so now, for example, the first three or four thoughts that land in my mind, I know we're going to be wrong on anything. And so for me, it's an observation of amusement of like, what is my mind generating in this moment? And then I have to sort through them a little bit on the fifth or

six, I finally get to some stable place where I can start listening to my mind. Before that, it's just trying to figure out what's going, what's even happening. I think one of the most powerful things that we can do as humans is be aware of our thoughts and be able to step outside and look at our thoughts. And I find that for me, the best way to do that is through meditation. Are there things that you do that help you observe the way you think? Yeah, meditation's been a really important one. Sleep. Sleep. So you'll do like dream work and it like works itself out. When I'm well rested. I have much better clarity of mind. When I'm tired, I find that my grumpiness and irritability creates much stronger emotions. When you were working so hard, and we'll get into your

entrepreneur endeavors, were you lacking sleep? Is that how you know that experiment? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I was sleep deprived for a long time. So have you always been, I mean, you're very articulate, you're very intelligent. Since you were little, have you always been of this intellect? I did really poorly in school. Really? Yeah, it didn't make sense to me. I just couldn't understand the way they structured information. So the way that they were giving you information didn't work for you. Yeah, or rather, I should say, I did really well in school. Like I graduated in the top, I don't know, like 3% of my class, but I had to. But I had to work like five times longer. than my friends.

So they would go home, get their homework done or do all their work in school or in class, and I'd be like, I got five hours of homework ahead of me. And so the amount of time I had to put into getting really basic things done was,

it just seemed like I really struggled to learn at the speed they did in those environments and scores well they did. I had to put in so much effort. Well, to play devil's advocate there, I think my part of, I was terrible student, and I did not graduate in the top 3%,

not even close. Might be close to the bottom three. But I think a lot of the way in my particular quip or quam or whatever with school is that it is set up to follow a very structured system of rules in a lot of cases. And I think that is very challenging for many individuals who don't fit neatly into a box or organization. I've always been an entrepreneur and done my own thing. And not saying one way is better than other, but there is no way that I plug in neatly to an organization. with the process, just not how my brain works. And I remember getting so frustrated with school because it was all about like you do this

and then you get this. And one, I felt very, that's very predictable and boring. But two, my brain was like, I want to do something. I want to do it in a different way and figure out how to solve a unique problem that hasn't been solved yet. Does that make sense? It does. Yeah.

And so I just think it's like for certain people, it is really challenging because some minds just don't work that way. Yeah. When you got out of school, what did you do? I served a Mormon mission. So I went to Ecuador to try and tell all those Catholics that they had chosen the wrong religion and that they needed to be Mormon.

So how did you get out of, like, what is the journey with religion after you're doing that? So I grew up in the 80s and 90s when the internet was not yet around or barely around. And so there wasn't information about the religion. now there is. And so when I started learning about the origin of the origin and a lot of details about it, it was this scenario where what I had been told was nothing like the reality.

And it created this challenge for me of who do I believe, the authorities who have been telling me the story or what I'm reading online through these authoritative sources. Almost like an identity crisis. To say the least. Yeah. I mean, to be told your whole life something, I can only imagine how intense that is when you realize that everything you've been told as a child is maybe not right. Exactly.

And like it hits at the, so because you're given the answer of why do you exist? You know, did you exist before this? What happens after you die? And this is the case. It's not just my case, but many people in the world are in religions that give them answers to these basic questions. You know, you're either in a reincarnation loop, or you die and you go to heaven and you've got virgins, or you, like, there's so many stories that try to reconcile with the unanswerable questions about reality. So I'm not unique in that regard because we are a society that exists upon stories that tries to smooth out the edges of the discomfort of our existence. And when you rip that out from underneath you, you have all these really basic questions to answer.

When you decided to leave religion, how did your family respond? My family was cool. They were cool. Yeah, several of my siblings. My father left and my siblings left. So I think as a family, we've learned how to love each other and be tolerant. You're lucky we've had people on this podcast that their family, like, cut them off. I mean, I've heard really gnarly stories.

That's really amazing that they were cool. Well, it's interesting, too, because I think about the people that are maybe listening that did not grow up with religion and are they're going to, like, oh, that could never happen to me, but think about how many political biases you adopt as a child based on the way your parents think politically, right? And that gets ingrained in you. Or just habits that you adopt from, from, I mean, there's multiple things. But imagine your parents from a young age drilling into you. And maybe the unbe-knowest to them that, like, this is the only way of life and everything else is a lie. Like you, you would go,

I would imagine that would be very confusing and hard at times, especially for a young child. The benefit on this is on the other side when I left and left me devoid of any answer. I got to pose these questions anew. Why do I exist? How did this whole thing come into being? What happens if we die? And when you're in your mid-30s and you get to ask these questions, it's fun.

So at what point do you start to explore your entrepreneurial side? Yeah, so I went on a mission, and then I came back. I lived among extreme poverty for two years. And so I was in, you know, people, dirt floors, mud huts. Did you do that so you could experience it? Did you do it because you had to? It was a responsibility as part of the religion. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah. When you're 19, now it's 18, you're asked to go spend two years of your life somewhere in the world.

So when you were doing that, were you starting to plan what you were going to do as an entrepreneur? It was not really because you're so consumed by the missionary work. That's really all you do. You don't do anything outside of that. I came home and I was overwhelmed by, the opulence of the United States. I came back and it was just, I can't even recreate the experience. It was insane how, it was almost like an imaginary world of how pristine it was in the U.S. relative to being in that extreme poverty. And the only thing that I felt internally was this burning desire to do something

that would benefit the human race. It didn't make sense to get a job and try to make money. It was just that. I didn't know what it was. I wasn't really good at anything. I didn't have any skills. And so it's just a general thing. And so I said in my naive 21-year-old mind, I'm going to make a whole bunch of money by age of 30.

And then I'm going to go out and change the world. I'm going to make the human race better. That's what you're doing. Yeah. It's literally what you're doing. You manifested that. So for those that are achievement-oriented and they're like, okay, well, how does a 21-year-old been? Because every headline, and you've read them, tech billionaire, I think people have this perception of you.

Like, it's like a modern-day Tony Stark, right? And it's like this kind of like veiled character. And I think we, you know, we do a good job in this country of painting a picture of people that have had the success you've had in business. It's like almost like this weird creature that's, you know, in the shadows that has, you know what I mean? And I think like it's important to articulate and paint the picture of like a 21-year-old who comes here with nothing and decides to build this career. What did that actually look like for you? Yeah, I started, I guess I started evaluating ways. I knew there was a few laws. Like one, I couldn't trade my time for money.

I couldn't go out and get a job and make a certain dollar per hour. And even if I wanted to become a profession in some, like a doctor or a lawyer or something where you can charge higher rates per hour, it wasn't going to make the amount of money I needed on the time frame I wanted. I couldn't do it by age 30. So I needed to build something that would scale and be worth a lot of money in a very short period of time. So I started focusing on companies that had those attributes.

And I didn't really care about the industry. The industry wasn't the application, it was the money. And if I knew what I was going to do to try to change the world and marry those two, great. But I just really went after the money. So I started companies, a few small ones worked, some failed. And then I started a company called Braintree when I was 27. It was doing payments. And the way I got into that is I was in another startup.

We were trying to make ends meet. We had debt up to our eyeballs, like we were barely making rent. and I needed to have a part-time job in order to pay my bills for my other startup. And so nobody would hire me. I emailed the 50 richest people in Utah. And I said, I found this list, you know, the 50 rich people. I said, hey, I'm young, I'm smart, I'm ambitious, I'm resourceful.

I'll come, work for you, I'll do anything you need. And then no one responded. I applied for 60 jobs. No one would give me an interview. So finally, I found this job posting, selling credit card processing door to door. And it was the only thing that allowed me to have time to work the startup and then also make some money to pay the bills for the family. So I had a baby at the time.

And yeah, I just went out and I found payments to be this broken industry that had lacked innovation for quite some time. So I did that for a year and then I started Braintree, which was basically helping all my businesses except credit card payments. So like Airbnb and Shopify or our early customers. And that company grew and then we acquired Venmo a couple years later and then PayPal bought the entity for 800 million in. And you bought it for what, 20 something? Yeah. Yeah, so that's a good. Okay, so you unlocked the return you were looking for.

Yeah. It seems like, though, that you wanted to use what, and correct me if I'm wrong, what you just said as a lily pad to get to doing what you do now. Yes. Well, that's what I find so fascinating now. And we're going to really dive into your story here, which is, it sounds like this was all, to Lawrence Point, just the initial thing that you feel you needed to do in order to do what you are now doing, which is unlock human.

That's what's so interesting to me. That's why I'm so interested in you because it's like you, most men that we've had on here that sell companies for a lot of money, they like kind of feel like they made it. And with you, it's different. It's almost like you used it. You're using it as a stepping stone to get somewhere else, which is, it's like you almost, you just kind of like used it to your, you wanted to use. not just to make money and buy the sports car.

Do you know what I mean? It's like you have a way bigger picture. When I told the team in this, when I told people in this office we were interviewing me, I think this is why I'm so happier here. It's like there's so much misconception and lack of clarity about what you're actually. And tell me if you disagree with this.

I feel in a way your cause is a very noble cause that is essentially trying to unlock more human potential with you also being willing to be the guinea, pig of a lot of this testing on yourself. It's not like you're going and getting a bunch of other people and saying, I need to try all this stuff and you, like, I'm not going to participate. You're essentially doing it on yourself, taking a lot of your own money, funding it yourself. And if it works, it potentially could unlock a lot of new potential and help a lot of people. Is that kind of what you're...

Okay. Yeah. And I think what people on the other side were like, well, why is this guy that's worth all this money trying to live forever. Like what makes him so special? I look at it as like, well, isn't this kind of what we want guys like yourself that have achieved this kind of financial success to be using money for? Right. Like we don't need more people buying more infrastructure and taking more and conquering more capital. Like don't we need people that have had the success you've had to go and figure out how to give back in some kind of way? Anyway, that's just my, like how I've thought about it. Yeah. What they don't understand is, is I'm trying to make it possible so they can choose to continue to exist if they want.

I've never said this is about me wanting to live forever. This is about me saying, I don't want to die. I want the option to live tomorrow. And when tomorrow comes, I want the option to live tomorrow as well. That's what I'm trying to do for the species. I'm trying to say that death has always been inevitable until now. And if that's the case, we need to transform ourselves as a society of death being inevitable to death being a potential infinite horizon of exploration or life to be.

You know, the death is not the case. And so if you like you have to really impact this that our entire society and our lives and our beliefs and our systems and our self-coping mechanisms are all built around death. And you have to really unpack those layers. It's very, very heavy. And so if you look at the response that someone says to what I'm doing, you'll find so many layers of that embedded death cope where it's just a reflux reaction. And so this is, you can't invite someone to live forever because it breaks the human brain.

The brain cannot comprehend living forever. So it's rejected at a hand. But a concept people understand is do you want to live tomorrow? and most people will say, yeah, I'm down for tomorrow. That's the same as living forever. They're identical in concept. And so this is the thing. I've been doing these dinners on my house for the past few years,

and we talk about the future of existence. And it takes me two and a half hours to get people through an entire process where they land and they finally get the ideas. But it really is that long of a process to really unpack all the thoughts that surround death is inevitability and these new ideas. Of that two and a half hours, where do you have to spend the majority of that discussion? What is the thing that people just like take the longest to get? So I open up with this question that if you had access to an algorithm that could give you the best physical, emotional and spiritual health of your life.

Best. But in exchange for the access, you would do what the algorithm says. Go to bed when the algorithm says, eat what it says. And let's just keep it to the health and wellness elements. let's exclude other parts of life. Would you say yes or would you say no? Yeah, I would personally say yes. I'm one of those guys if you tell me the thing.

I'm saying yes. I went to the dentist today. If I get skin like Brian's too, I'm saying yes. I went to the dentist today and he's like, oh, do you want like the basic routine? I'm going to tell you like the real. I'm like, tell me the thing and I'll do it. You know what I mean?

But yeah, I get so, okay. And so in this case, you're saying for what you're doing, you are unlocking a lot of that information using the data or the science that you found and figuring out if you do these things, you have the greatest chance to live another day and another day. And what this does is this draws the contrast. So we can all make pleasant statements

about what we want in life. But then when 9 p.m. comes at our favorite show drops and we want the pint of ice cream and the bag of cookies and the whatever else, that's not the same representation as you want in your best life.

in that moment, you're doing something that accelerates disease and death. So you are inflicting upon yourself this destructive behavior. That is inconsistent. And so what happens is people basically say, I want to retain control over having access to my vices or having access to doing things, which I do normally in my cultural moments, that I find to be enjoyable that make life worth living. They basically say if I can't have these things, I don't understand why I would exist. So even though you have the best physical, mental, spiritual health of your life, but that's really hard to say no to. They say on the other side, but if I can't have my vices and my personal choice to do these things, which I understand are my reason to exist, I can't reconcile the two.

That creates a traffic jam. It's like the, it's like the smoker who says, you know, I know this is potentially killing me. I feel that though. I want my skinny margarita. But like I also, I would be in bed. I'm in bed at 830. But also if you want to go get drinks, you're having the margarita at 830, which clashes with what is best. I'll have the margarita at 630. Can I have a margarita at 630? How do you unclog the traffic jam? Yeah. Yeah. Cool. At the dinner. That's really a wonderful question. Yeah. It's, okay, you could basically approach this and say, we know our minds are faulty, that much of what our mind generates minute to minute is largely false.

If we're that self-aware, that's quantitatively scientifically true. A lot of it is false. So you could make a rule and say, if a new idea lands in my brain, I have a rule. I can't form a conclusion for at least three minutes. Because the knee-jerk reaction is going to cement you in

with a certain disposition of the margarita. And then it's going to pit your brain against this new idea. And all you want to do is to kill the new idea because a margarita needs to be had. Is that confirmation bias? These all the tricks. And so the reality is, so a lot of people will comment and observe about me, they'll say, okay, he must be miserable. He's in a cage of his own making.

He's not living life. They'll make these comments. And basically what they're trying to say is, The way I live life, I'm living my best self. I'm living my fullest life. I'm doing my very best thing. And he who's getting sleep and eating well and exercising and in top health, he must be miserable.

And they're trying to go back to our first conversation. They're trying to justify, you made the comment as well, they're trying to justify their existence to feel assured that they're okay. Because if they let anything come in their special place and it's not okay, you have to examine yourself. And that is really uncomfortable contemplating. to make change. And so I'll give you the five beats I do quickly to walk people through this traffic jam is I pose the thought experiment and then people give me their knee jerk reactions. And it's like

either yes or like, I don't know, this is complicated because I have these things. And then I flip it to try to create introspection. So I say, now imagine the 25th century is observing our conversation. What did they view are the characteristics of our intelligence? The Homo sapiens in the early 201 century were like what. And so people will make the observation like, well, you know, we have this idea that we love choice, that we love autonomy. We love to be able to make these decisions. Even if they cause death, we still want the choice.

You know, what are some of the characteristics? Well, they make observations. And that flips it. So now instead of defending their ideas, they're now introspective observing themselves. And the next beat is what might change in the future that could change our reality. And then we come back to the thought experiment in the beginning. And so it's a lot to pack in. I'll fill in one of the holes here for you.

The entire contemplation of what I'm doing is an observation that we are baby steps away from super intelligence. We're building artificial intelligence. It's moving very fast. Now, whether you think that it's going to happen, whether we have really smart computers, like super smart computers in one year

or in five or in 20 or in 50 or 100, it doesn't really matter. It's all basically now. It's happening, regardless. regardless, and for all intensive purposes, it kind of compresses that it makes no sense to delay this contemplation. This is a thought experiment that's real. I saw a meme today of John Connor, and it said John Connor watching all of us make friends with AI. John Connor's from Terminator, Lord. She's like, what? Anyways, we're there. So in this case, AI is going to change everything about

reality. And to give this context, like how much will it change? Let's just do a thought experiment. let's imagine we travel back in time and we're hanging out with Homo erectus. And Homo erectus lived a million years ago and they had an axe in their hand. And we said, Homo erectus, where's food, where's shelter, and where's danger? We're going to listen because they have tribal knowledge

that we care about. If we say Homo erectus, tell us about the future of your species. We're going to laugh. Homo erectus is not going to be able to talk about the internet and, and AI and traveling outside of the Earth and, you know, microscopic objects like germs or quantum mechanics. So it has no capacity. Now, if you say if the delta between homorectus intelligence

and ours is the same as our intelligence relative to AI, do we think we have anything relevant to say about the future? How do you think about this? I mean, like, this is like, I totally get what you're saying. But it sounds like to me... But this is like really like how does your brain even like go through this? It's so interesting to me. If you study and read a lot of history like it sounds like you have, the point is is go back, back, back, there was no way any of these people in the past could predict where we're even at now. And so it's not hard to believe that. We're basically in the same spot as cavemen is what you're saying. Exactly. We are the cavemen. Damn. It's weird to think of it. It's very weird to think about. Like it's just not it makes total sense what you're saying.

I'm trying to figure out through talking to you, though, where the misunderstanding is. Think about it like even this way. Imagine people during the Civil War even saying, hey, don't worry, you got this cut. We're just going to give you this thing to clear this infection. No big deal. Like, as opposed to we're going to cut your whole leg off or maybe you're going to die in a few days. Those people would have looked at you like you were insane. What I could just take a pill real fast and be fine.

We're kind of doing that. I feel like we are very good as a civilization of at jumping. on the person who's going to solve this the same way those people probably jumped on. Like doctors used to be known as quacks, right? Like when you would see doctors running around you, like these people are like, you know, they're selling us some kind of snake oil too. Yeah. Snake oil, little extroversion.

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what you say. Is it because they're not consuming you in long-form content? There's a lot of headlines that are very wild. Yeah. I mean, I understand it. So I did a blood transfusion with my son. Okay, because I want to know more about that. Yeah. Explain that. Wait, quickly. Can I turn my son into my little blood boy? Can I, is that something I can do? Lauren said if I do that, because I was like, listen, I'm watching what you're doing. Maybe I need to do that. Let me hear if I can get better skin. We'll talk.

Tell me about this. Tell me about this. Give us more context on this. So what we did is, again, imagining if you're an explorer in 2021 and you're trying to to survey the world. So after I sold Brainship MMO, I sold it in 2013. And so then it basically took me 10 years to arrive at this. Because the question I had was, what is one thing I could do

that the 25th century will appreciate and respect? And so that's an observation that if you look at any century of time, if we go back to the 15th century, we know that century for say 15 things or 20 things. but 99.9% of what happened in the 15th century is gone to history.

We compress that entire century into a very small number of bits. And that same thing is going to be true about our time and place. So we are consumed with things on a daily basis, 99.9% of which will be lost to history because the 25th century is only going to care about two or three things. And so after I sold Braintree of MMO, I made money, which I had tried to make when I was 21. So then the question became for me is what one thing do I do that the 25th century would appreciate and respect.

And it took me 10 years to travel down that path and try to basically do several things and try to figure out what it was. And I finally, just in the past two years or three years have found what I think is the effort. And so the plasma is basically a branch of that. And so what I posed a question in 2021 is I said, is it the case? case that we have arrived at a point in time where death is no longer inevitable. For the first time in history, there's been many people who've looked at the fountain of youth. And so to do that, to pose a legitimate scientific question, I have a team of 30 medical professionals, and we scoured all the scientific literature. We took the best health span and lifespan studies. We ranked

them according to effect size. We graded the evidence. We identified the power laws. And And then we put all the science into me. And then I became the most biologically measured person in history. And so we got an answer. Like, where are we at? Like, what can be done with today's science? And I had measurements to share with the world. I made the entire thing open.

So I shared freely with the entire world, everything from my erections to my brain images, everything. I made it all open source. And it's pretty compelling. You can actually meaningfully slow your speed of aging and even reverse aging damage in some situations. And so making that observation of here's where we're at now. And this is scientifically you were able to prove this is what you're saying. Exactly.

Yeah, that's right. Sorry. And keep going. Yeah. And so then if you say, okay, this is where we're at now, what makes us believe we could potentially solve aging? Like how does that, how do you go from where you're at now to solving death? And for the past 10 years, I've been in very.

I invested $100 million in companies doing, basically building the tools that allow us to engineer physical reality. So atoms and molecules and organisms, everything that makes up our biology and our physical world. And so several of my companies, like, for example, one company, Ginkgo Biworks, which does synthetic biology, if you want rose oil as a scent of perfume, you can plant a seed, grill to plant, fertilize it, water it, harvest it, and get the rose oil, or you can take a yeast and program the yeast to manufacture the rose oil. So you can engineer biology to do the things

that nature does in a very efficient fashion. Instead of growing trees, chopping them down and building a house, program a seed to grow into a house. So these things are doable. You can program biology. It's happening every day. And you can do things to program drugs. You can program physical things like rose oil, you can program anything. And then other companies I invested in are doing, they build with atoms, like they're nanotech companies, atom by atom building these atomic structures to do a variety of things. Like if you want to say, we're going to store gas at a hundred times a density, you build a new atomic structure for it. And so I knew from my, my decade of investing in these areas, we have the ability to engineer physical reality.

It's not science fiction. It's here right now happening in the real. world with real products. What's something that like the common person would find surprising that we're engineering already? Yeah, like rose oil. Yeah, like our sense, our perfumes, all these inputs, like you, you can come up with new processes. We've already figured out how to accelerate instead of doing, okay, so you already articulated that example. Exactly. Yeah. And so if we have the ability to actually engineer reality, if we, to do these, the atomic scale all the way through biology. And then you say, okay, now we're bringing artificial intelligence online. And AI is increasingly capable of doing the things we humans can do and more. So it adds

this layer of intelligence that we've never had before. And if you look at the speed in which AI is improving, we're adding the equivalent of like millions of hours of human intelligence or more to our intelligence stack all the time. So it's just getting more and more robust. We can do things much faster. So you put those two things together and say, okay, here's where we're at now with how we can slow down speed of aging and reverse it. Here we can engineer reality. We've just done these things in the past few decades. And now we're adding AI.

That creates this moment for the first time in human history where we can say, huh, maybe death is not inevitable. I have to go back to the erections. Is the more erections you get the younger you are? Is that why the erections are relevant to aging? That's right. So is this is where the headlines get twisted because I think people So as Michael ages he's going to get less erections.

That's what you're telling me? Well, you better get with Brian. Right, I might even get you on speed down here. No, but I think this is where the headlines become misleading because people will take, and I want to still talk about you and your son's relationship and the transfusion and all that, but also they will take the erection headline and it's almost a way to kind of diminish what you're talking about here, which is having more erections is an indicator. of actually slowing the aging process,

or in some cases actually going in reverse if you start to improve and get more erections, correct? Yeah, I mean, like, we went through this process. The difference between I'm chronologically 46, I'm biologically, you know, 100 plus different ages. My left ear is 64, my heart is 37, my diaphragm is age 18. So you can measure the biological age of your entire body.

And so this concept is new. people don't understand that our body ages differently. So I get like a hip transplant or like a knee. I mean, maybe that's a dumb example. But, you know, if someone's knee gives out, that's a different age than maybe someone who's got a really strong left arm. Exactly.

You can characterize. You can look at the anatomical characteristics and the functional characteristics. And so one day with my team, I was talking to them and I said, what would it take for me to have the most quantified penis in the world? It doesn't want to quantify penis. Who doesn't want to quantify penis? Every guy that's listening,

don't you lie about this? This is a projection. If you're projecting this on to Brian, you're just pissed. You don't have. Taylor, how do you get a quantified penis, Brian? So we said, all right, we're going to look through the scientific literature. And we're going to evaluate every way to assess the penis. And one of these ways was to assess nighttime erections.

And so when men and women have nighttime erections, it's harder to measure a woman's erection. It's harder to actually get out the place you need to be. With men, it's just very accessible. For male erections, I use a little device, a little cube that's like a centimeter cubed, and there's a little string you put it around the shaft and you go to sleep. Taylor will volunteer. Go ahead. Okay.

Okay. Okay. Basically, a very comfortable. Yeah, a very comfortable one. And so I did my baseline measurement and my nighttime erections were two hours and 12 minutes at the baseline. And so that's about average for my chronological age. So as you age... We get that many erections in the night?

Exactly. Wow. Yeah, you don't. Yep. So as you age. See, all you got to find me is when I'm asleep.

You're just... As you... Brian, please, I can't talk about Michael's erections. I've had enough of that. So then we then did a few therapies. So I did... We found two therapies. Two therapies. They both were...

They had good studies for erectile dysfunction. So I didn't have... I don't have erectile dysfunction. I didn't have erectile dysfunction. But we wondered, will they work? If they can improve ED, would they improve normal function?

And so I did two things. I did a focus. shockwave therapy. So it's a little wand and it's used for whole body rejuvenation. Like if someone tears an ACL and they're doing physical therapy, it accelerates that healing process. It can be used on joints. And so you can

use it on the penis, including the shaft and the tip. And so I did several sessions of this focus shockwave therapy, which it's pretty painful. What does it feel like? Like a shock. To your penis. Yeah, it's especially painful in the tip. Oh, Jesus. Well, I don't feel that bad for you guys. We have to have kids. Go on.

Yeah, right. And then the second thing I did is I did Botox in the penis, which that is, it was a 31 gauge needle, so it wasn't that big of a deal. Wait, doesn't Botox, wouldn't Botox relax the penis? It opens up for greater blood flow. It increases erection strength. It has all kinds of benefits. But I had all these other measurements. We looked at my penile blood flow, so I got erect, and then we used ultrasound to look at blood flow in the penis. I looked at max urination speed, even though it's not directly sexual, it's still part of the entire function. So it had all these measurements. So after I did these protocols, my nighttime erections are now, my latest measurement was 179 minutes.

So I'm now better than the average 18 year old. So it means that your penis is actually like 18 years old. Better than. Better than. I told you there's a big female demo. Yeah, watch out for you. Yeah, better than. And so what's interesting is penile by erections, they represent sexual health, but also physiological

health and cardiovascular health. It's a really important marker. And so when I started sharing this, a lot of my friends message me. They're like, I'm sure they did. I don't think I'm having any erections, which is true. If you're not sleeping well and you've got a poor diet and not exercising, your nighttime erections may be zero. So it's a really important indicator of health.

And so they're like, I don't think it's happening at all. And so it just was a really nice moment that. you can talk about these fanciful topics of like whatever I'm saying, but when you talk about boners, it's like, I got it. How many people are texting you behind the scenes saying, Brian,

give me an 18 year old penis. What do I need to do? Get me that focal one, a little Botox. Yeah. My question is, I bet you, I bet you are getting so many people that I'm going to say are embarrassed to

maybe even say they're messaging you behind the scenes. That is true. I get hundreds every day. Huh. That's the funniest thing. See, this is how you really know you're on to something and you are innovating because people start, they start to be secretive about it.

And instead of just saying they want to know this information, this is why, though. If I'm a guy and I can make my penis be 18 and I'm 50 years old, I'm sure as how I'll ejecting my penis and photos. There's not one man listening here right now that says, I don't want to have an 18-year-old penis. No, no, of course not.

But here's where I think there's a bit, this is just a commentary on. society as a whole. Are you going to get a focal one? Where I think, yeah, where I think we're in some trouble. And this goes back to what this group was saying about Elon earlier and people like yourself is like, why would we not want to take an honest, objective, perspective, and review about what people like yourself are working on?

Because I get the clickbait headlines. And I get, you know, but what you just articulated is much different than someone reading a headline like Brian Johnson measures his erection. Yeah. Like you have to have the full story of like, why you're doing this in the indicator of health and age and all of these things or else. And it drives me nuts when, listen, I get people are running businesses and they need to drive awareness. But it does a disservice, I think, to humanity as a whole to not get the full context.

I don't think I agree with you, Michael. I'm going to, if I were you, I would be happy that these headlines were happening because it's getting people to pay attention or then you can come on a long platform show like this and explain and give context. Without the headline, I think you need the headlines. Do you or no? I want to know what Brian thinks. Yeah, let's, I love to know you think. Yeah, do you think you need the headlines?

You're at the receiving end of this. I love all of it. I love every. Oh my God, I'm obsessed. I love the hate. I love the headlines. I love the misunderstanding. I love every bit of it.

That's how I would be. Yeah, I mean, I would like it too. I should, I'm going to do a headline about my vagina. And here's the thing. There we go. This is why, though, we need some. people like yourself that have the armor and the resilience to deal with this. Because most people, you know, they get a little bit of pushback, you know, in anything and it just completely folds

them and crumbles them. It's like that's not helpful. I want to go back to your son a bit in the relationship you have with him. Again, I think that that was an interesting headline and maybe a lot of misconception there. To me, it sounds like you have a great relationship with your son. and it almost feels like he was excited to do this with you and see if he could be helpful. Yeah, the origin of the plasma was that I was speaking to my dad, who works in the legal profession, and he called me in a panic, and he said, I just had this incident where I was working on this project. I left the room, I came back, and I realized that what I was riding was a jumbled mess. I was experiencing cognitive lapse and I couldn't see it.

And that terrified him, which as that's understandable. And so I empathize with them. I said, dad, that just must be the worst thing. Like, what matters more than keeping your mind? And so I said, we're currently looking at this plasma therapy as a way in which we can improve certain biomarkers. And in our research, we're seeing that some people are trying this on those with Alzheimer's and Parkinson's. I said, if you're down for it, I would be more than willing to give you a leader of my plasma.

From you personally. I'm really, really scared of blood and needles. How, I have to ask you this, how long does it take to get a leader? I can't even do a tube. How long does it take? Yeah. It's about 90 minutes. Yeah.

Does it hurt? You've got to be in it. You have to be paying attention. It's, yeah, it's a big needle because you have to, the way this machine works. is it pulls the blood out and then it cycles it and it separates the blood from the plasma and then puts the blood back in you. Do you get extremely lightheaded? If you hydrate well, you're fine.

So you just, you lay back, you have the needle in. It's, it's okay. Like, you just have to be present. You know, it's not a walk in the park, but it's fine. So I had this talk with my dad and my son overheard me and he's like, I'm in. And we're like, great. We'll make it a family affair, tramm, multi-generational thing. So we're all smiling and this is fun.

Like, this is just like, we're going to go mess around. So, yeah, we fly to Texas because it's not legal in California. We go to Texas and my son goes first. He pulls a plasma out of himself. I go second. I pull a leader out of myself. I put my son's leader in me. My dad goes next.

He takes a leader out of him and he puts my leader in. And what was interesting, here's the cool thing. Because I know that's focused a lot of my son. But my dad, we used to test. using a technology called DNA methylation. It's like these chemical fingerprints in the body of how stuff's happening. And it's a clock that determines how fast you're aging. So there's a clock.

Are you aging the normal rate of one or are you aging at the rate lower than one, which is slower or higher than one, which is faster? And so my father's speed of aging lowered by the equivalent of 25 years. So he went from aging at the speed of a 71 year old to the speed of a 46 year old after one infusion. Now, there's not enough known whether it was from him removing a leader of plasma or from accepting mine or a combination of both. We don't know. But still, it snapped him back into a state where his colleagues were asking him, what the hell? Like, what happened?

You're just lucid in a way that we haven't seen. And it stayed that way for six months. We did three tests before, three tests after to make sure we had accuracy of the test. but it was significant. And so for my father, it was a life-changing event. And it was interesting that therapy actually had the same effect size in him as you saw in the animal models that were being used. And the reason I had my phone open is that I was one of a business insider to piece is a controversial tech millionaire. They also have to say that part in the beginning says his father, 70 is now biologically 46 thanks to injections of his super blood.

Yeah. That's the headline. Hell of a headline. But real quick, I have an incredible relationship with my father. and if he called me with that and I knew that this technology existed and I could do this for him you better believe I'm doing this from it. I think

many people listening thinking about a loved one if they're healthy and they knew they could do this if this technology existed for them many people would do this. I have little questions. Does it have to be in your family or like could Michael give it to me and I give it to Michael? Yeah, you can

you just need to be blood type matched. Blood type match. Okay. We're all that type match. We're all right. I can't do that for you. I'm sorry. You're going to find another friend. Yeah, I wonder if it's gender matched. I don't know. Blood type for sure. Okay.

I think gender too. Why can't you test your dad when he gets the leader removed with the age test and then put the leader in him and then test him after? We did that. And so why didn't you know if it's from the leader or from the leader being removed? I see. You're saying, yeah, we could do two different experiments, yes. I wonder which I believe it's from putting it. in. Do you? Well, what happened to you when you got

from your son? Nothing. Nothing. But the reason, I think, actually, what we hypothesize is my biomarkers are already pretty competitive with an 18-year-old. Yeah. How old is your son? He's 18. Is he as interested as you are in all of this? So he's

very highly intelligent and like he's really into like learning all about this. Yeah, he's in. Cool. Yeah. Well, I am. I mean, this is fascinating stuff And again, why I was so excited to have you on because I think that the intention, I'll go back to that with you, is in, or it seems to be in the right place. To play devil's advocate, somebody asked earlier, like, well, why does Brian feel that he's ordained to live longer than the normal person?

He just answered. And it was the question of like, why does this person feel so special that they should be the one that lives? It's not about living. It's about living another day. It's giving people the tools if they want to live another day. They have an option. It's optionality to me. Yeah.

And also, I realized that that observation has a bit of animosity in it. Uh-huh. And I would tell the person that I've spent millions of dollars on this project and I've made it all available to them for free. They can do it. So I'm not holding it behind a paywall. I'm not, it's entirely transparent and it's affordable. The majority of the things that I do, you can do at no cost.

It's just a misunderstanding. It's fine that they express that opinion. I understand there's reason for people to be upset. But if they understand the intent behind this, and it's all accessible to them, I did this for them, then sure. Are you somebody that cares about your health and is putting a huge emphasis on your well-being and your, your mind and making sure you're getting the best ingredients. Well, that's great. But if you're not

also doing that for your pet, you're a terrible person. I hope I can say that, which is why we love the farmer's dog so much. We spend so much time thinking about what we're feeding ourselves, our children, our family, and not nearly enough time thinking about feeding the critters that love us the most. And those are our dogs, our pets, the ones that give us unconditional love and support all the time, no matter what we're doing or how we're behaving. So for those of you that are not familiar with the farmer's dog. The farmer's dog makes and delivers fresh, healthy dog food right to your door. It's developed by vets, nutritionally balanced, and made from real meat and veggies to the safety standards of human food. It's by far the best option for dogs of all life

stages because it's not kibble. It's not canned goo. It's just real healthy food. Lorne and I have been giving this to our dogs, Slim and Boone for years now, and they are thriving. They are happy. Their coats are full. They're just all in all doing great. Traditional dry and wet dog food options are highly processed can use much lower quality ingredients they claim to and are extremely difficult to portion accurately. The farmer's dog isn't just fresh higher quality food. They also send the food pre-portion specifically for your dog based on their unique nutritional needs. So check it out. We have a massive offer from the farmer's dog. Get 50% off your first box of fresh healthy food at the farmer's dog.com slash skinny. Plus you get free shipping. Just go to the farmer's dog.com slash skinny to get 50% off. That's the farmer's dog.com. com slash skinny. The Skinny Confidential him and her podcast is sponsored by Better Help.

This is one of our favorite partners. We have been working with Better Help for years on this show. Mental health is so important and we have had so many great conversations with people who have benefited so much from therapy over the years, so many high performers, so many people that have just absolutely changed their lives or turned their lives around, whether they've been battling depression or anxiety or just a difficulty in life. One thing Lauren and I have learned doing this show for as long as we have is that talking about your problems and issues is so important. Just getting it out in the open, not holding it in, not bottling up, which is why we love BetterHelp so much.

BetterHelp makes therapy easy and convenient and accessible for anyone, whether it's on your smartphone, your laptop, your computer, your iPad. You can do it from anywhere. Long gone are the days of having to go into an office and sit in a waiting room. You can do this right from the convenience of your own home or office. and what we love about BetterHelp as well is they have licensed therapists that you can connect with right away. At any time, you can change therapists for any reason. So if you're thinking about starting therapy, give Better Help a try. It's entirely online, like I said, designed to be convenient, flexible, and suited to your schedule.

Again, we could not be bigger believers in therapy, especially after all of the conversations we've had here. We just have seen the impact that it has on people that decide to dip their toes in that water to better their lives. Learn to make time for what makes you happy with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash skinny today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, help.com slash skinny. Betterhelp.com slash skinny. Sleep is big for you. You've talked about it a lot.

We're big on routines here. Can you describe the environment you sleep in and the routine you set up. To your point about being free, a lot of this, if people set up their environment correctly, will make a huge impact just sleep in general. Can you talk about how you set up a solid sleep environment? Yeah, the first thing to do is to reframe your identity that you don't sleep to live, you live to sleep. And so understanding yourself as a professional sleeper changes the identity. And if you're willing to reframe yourself and doing that, everything else kind of falls into place.

So that means sleep is not something you get to push around all the time. If you're wanting to watch your favorite movie or you're wanting to hang out with friends, it's not something just always gets the short end of the stick. after you get that identity thing correct, then I personally sleep alone. So that's, I know, controversial that a lot of people do sleep with their partner. But that's very hard to coordinate.

If you're trying to get your environment right, sleeping alone gives you a lot of ability. Two is I have a blacked out room. So there's no light gets in there at all. No windows? I blacked it out entirely. Yep. I have a temperature controlled mattress from eight sleep.

I've heard those things are great. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think so. And then other things, which I eat my last meal the day at 11 a.m. And so I...

What? Yeah, so I just follow the data. So I did a few hundred experiments. And I tracked when I ate, what I ate, how much I ate, and my sleep is best when I finish by 11 a.m. What time do you wake up? Like four or five. Okay.

And I'm assuming no alcohol, no drugs. Correct. Okay. Go ahead. Yeah. And so I've basically, I, or earlier this year, I posted what is potentially the best. sleep score in human history. I shouldn't say human history, but like since wearables have been out.

One's going to have an orgasm. I love that. Yeah, I have eight months of perfect, of 100% sleep. And no one had ever done that before, not because it's impossible, just because no one actually tried to do it. And so I shared my data, but yeah, I tried to perfect sleep. And now others are sharing that they're knocking out 100% every night. So it's really caught on with that you can't actually achieve this high quality sleep.

Brian, do you mouth tape? I don't. Your sleep score, I think, will go even higher if you mouth tape. I'm so into mouth taping right now. Tell me. It relaxes your nervous system because nasal breathing obviously is so important. And it does something that takes you into a different wave. I'm obviously not a scientist.

I don't, maybe like a, is it maybe like a theta or beta? It does something. You can feel it. And then nasal breathing gives me the most rested sleep I've ever. ever had. If you do everything he already does and you mouth taped, I would be interested to see if the sleep score changed at all. I'll try it. The reason why I haven't. I have actually sleep tape things at the house. But I started having bruxism in my early 20s, I think just from the stress of life. So I would grind my teeth. Yeah. And sadly, no one really told me how to fix that.

I wish I would have been advised earlier but I ended up getting through the dentist I have now this device this I think it's somal guard is it just like a retainer type thing it's a top and a bottom and it has a connective thing between the top and it basically arrests your mouth so it's not like a not a like a mouthpiece where you can still move your jaw just locks your

you're probably already getting a majority of me I think so I think the big thing is people you know we forget how to breathe and you end up with their like slack jaw, mouth hanging open, and then your mouth breathing most of the time, losing a lot of moisture. You probably only nose breathe than if you have something that's arresting your jaw. Yeah, probably. So I guess the reason why I don't do it is I tried it because it's a pretty large device. I try to put it over. My mouth doesn't fully close. So it just, it's a lot of material in my mouth. I'll try it again, though. I wonder if you just shut right here, if it makes any difference.

Of all the experiments that you've done on yourself, what do you believe has? been the most impactful or gave you the greatest movement or, you know, greatest impact. Sleep. I knew he was going to say that. Yeah, there's nothing more powerful to a homo sapien. Than sleep. Yeah. It's so funny when you think about that because, like, the culture for the longest time was rewarding this.

Like, hey, you don't sleep. You don't get up and go. And I'm sure in your early years when you were building the companies, like sleep was not the priority. Yeah. I think what you're doing is so cool. I think it's so disruptive. I love anyone who's disrupting and doing it on their own terms.

Tell us about blueprint. Okay, so maybe some context. When the 13 colonies were around, they were ruled by the monarch in the UK. And the U.S. said, hey, we want to be a democracy because we think we can do things better than you, monarch, who doesn't really understand the situation. You're so far removed. You're one person. We're a very complicated part of the world.

And so they chose democracy as a way of being. And this is the idea of people vote and they have these structures. And so they change the power structure of how people manage affairs, from a monarch to a democracy. And I approached this problem with myself and I said, okay, I have my mind, which is a monarch. I get to decide. My monarch chooses what it wants to eat, when it wants to eat, you know, what it's in the mood for. I want to basically become a democracy where my organs are voting. And so I measured all the organs and we said, okay, how are you doing lungs and liver and pancreas and heart?

brain, what do you need to be your best self? And we look at the scientific evidence. And then we said, we're going to design the perfect diet for the body, letting the organs speak. And we're going to build an algorithm because an algorithm is going to be better at doing this than I am myself. So that's what this is. For the past few years, we've tried to build the perfect diet. And so when this became viral, people would say, okay, I'm in. I want to do it, but it's way too complicated. Like there's too many pills, it's too hard to prepare food. And so we, from a standstill last February, I knew nothing about food. And I think we've now built the most nutritious food program in human history.

I think it's the most scientifically robust food protocol ever built. Like, I feel like you could take it to the moon if you're an astronaut. I think it would travel well. Yeah. I mean, if it's that nutritious, I mean, it seems like it'd be a good thing to take to the moon. what's your favorite product out of all of these that you have? I love them all. Okay.

So this is extraversion olive oil, which is 15% of my daily caloric intake. And this is a very specific criteria. I think it's something like less than 1% of the olive oil meets his criteria every year in harvest. Yeah, it's a premium extraversion olive oil. We basically got into this because we knew the scientific evidence supports olive oil as a robust health intervention, but only of a very specific type. How you consume the olive oil, you personally, is it something?

Are you like taking a shot of it? Are you putting it on specific food or salad? Like how do you, how do you invest it? Yeah, as you please. So one tablespoon with every mill. And you do that because when you eat, it causes damage in your body. So for example, oxidized LDL creates plaque and arteries. That's bad.

And so an extra version olive oil consumed with food lowers oxidized LDL by 80%. And it also lowers blood glucose and lowers LDL. So it lessens damage from eating while also provides. in nutrition. It's good for your skin too. It is. That's so interesting that that's 15% of your diet because when I first walked in and saw you, I said your skin and it's really good for your skin. Do you think that's one of the reasons that you're so vibrant? Maybe. Yeah. That's interesting. It has to be a really specific kind of olive oil. It's to emphasize that. And then these, yeah, these are basically eight pills a day. We tried to squeeze in every single thing we could.

This is a daily mix. You do a morning drink. It's delicious. And what kind of make, what is it, is like electrolytes or is it? Yeah, it's got creatine and a bunch of other. So we basically, we took the most powerful scientific interventions from the literature, and we put them all in these products. And we said, which things taste great and which things taste terrible. We put the terrible tasting things in the pills and the nice tasting things in the mix. Smart.

And then, yeah, this is a nutty pudding, which is basically like a protein shake with some berries. And then this is chocolate, same as extra version olive oil. It's among the best chocolate in the whole world. and then we have like a whole bunch of other products coming out in three or four months. But what I'm trying to do is basically give someone the most nutritious food program in the world and have it be more cost competitive than fast food and the grocery store. So I want to beat fast food and the grocery store on cost and then just blow them away on nutrition. But that's really, I mean, I'm serious about this death thing.

Like this is not a money grab. This is not me trying to. Well, I think that's what people, I mean, and I say this with respect, it's like you kind of already have the money, right? Like adding a little more is not going to materially change your life. Yeah. I mean, right? Like, yeah. And so I think people, you know, they read the headlines and they see this all, it, I could throw another hundred at you. It's not going to, it's not going to make a difference. I mean, it might, you know, it's nice, but you're not going to change the way you live based on that. I mean, there's like, okay, there's like five levels of ambition. if I can remember these right. One is start a company. Two, is start a country. Three, is start a religion. Four, don't die.

Five, become God. And so the company is just not, it's not in my scope of ambition anymore. I just don't care about it. I'm going to build a country. And so I'm going to build a don't die nation state. Because if we're serious about not dying, like we're really serious,

we need practical things. We need to test ourselves. We need medical services. We need therapies. And no government in the world cares for its citizens in that capacity. And so if we're serious, we have to build out real world infrastructure to help people not die. I'd like to come to dinner next time. Listen, we got it and it hasn't been two and a half dollars.

I like my teaspoon of olive oil, snake oil, Brian Johnson. I want the olive oil and I'd like to come. Oh, you should. Yeah, we should try it right now. Can we? Do you have any cups or any like or any way to do it? Yeah, we can get, Taylor, can you get some spoons? We can try it on air.

I need to add some more years in my life right now. Well, you also get the, get the focal one. Yeah, yeah. Do you have another cock ring on you? We forgot that, Tyler. Yeah, we have them. It's fascinating and I'm so glad we got to sit down because I think that this, getting this message out to a greater audience and really like the reason we chose to do this podcast and why we do it so frequently is it's great to be able to consume something in a headline or a 60 second TikTok clip but I really think like the context and the long form is so important to your point like you do a dinner party I'm assuming with very interesting intelligent people and even with that group two and a half hours to just get the idea across right there's there's some thought that needs to go into this discussion all right we're drinking snake oil premium all

Oh, I'll do it with you guys. Yeah, do it with us. Cheers. You want some? Oh, no, no, it's okay. Yes, he does. Give him half the bottle. Yeah, he wants them.

It's snake oil. Yeah, it's snake oil. You need to live a little longer. I need to prove it. I want you to count how many erections you have every night, Taylor. Okay. I woke up last night with an erection. We don't need your whole life story.

Okay, so tell us. Tell us what we're drinking. Why is it going to burn? A good olive oil will burn. Burn like a shot? Yeah. Yeah, and it'll probably make you cough. So what are we going to cheers to?

Cheers to you saving humanity and making us all have the option to live forever. Yes, cheers. Cheers. But also erections. Cheers. Cheers. I'd like an 18-year-old penis. I love it.

I don't think it burns. It's not burned. This is our new Australian batch. Wait, wait, wait. A little burn. Yeah, you're right. Yeah. I was just going to say a little. It takes a second.

You can feel it. No, it has just a kick. Yeah. It's good, though. Very smooth. This is the first time I've had. We just got this batch in. It does have a little burn. You're right. Would you don't want to cook with this and heat it up? You just want to, like... I do it raw, yeah, just to preserve all the potential benefits.

I treat this as, yeah, this is gold. Brian, where can everyone find you? Where can they find Blueprint? Pimp yourself out. I'm on all the social platforms. And blueprint. At brianjohnson.com. You can find products that are not available. We just did a few thousand person self-experimentation study.

So we have a few thousand people doing this right now. And we're going to publish all the data, as I have done with myself. So this is open science. Yeah, I'm generally around. I try to be responsive. If you need a woman to try it, I want to try it. I love, I'm a guinea pig. So, yeah, I love your disposition.

And so we definitely want to do more of this. And so we want to focus more on females. So I had my co-worker, Kate Tolo, did Blueprint. she was a second person to fully do it Did she like it? She did. It was a life-changing experience for her. If you need a woman to try, I will try anything.

Yeah. Like I said, besides the blood, because I'm too scared. But anything, I will literally try anything. We are going to make a new headline. They're going to say, if Morin is now... I'll try any. No, I really will. If you told me that eating shit makes your skin glow, I'd be like, okay, let's try it.

What's your diet now? It's a lot of meat. Uh-huh. A lot of meat. I had to lose 60 pounds after I had a baby. So it's a lot of meat, but it's like, Brass fed. Do you eat meat?

He's going to say, I'm going to say he's going to say yes. Do you eat meat? No. No. Oh. Only plants? Mm-hmm. Really?

Why? This is the only place where I depart, not depart, where it's, I have superimposed a preference. I hope that with the arrival of superintelligence, I hope that one thing that scales with intelligence is compassion. Oh. Because I think we will, we are alpha now. And so we do whatever we want to whomever we want, whatever we want in this moment, but we are no longer alpha. And so I hope that compassion is a law that we benefit from.

And from your products, can you get the same nutrients that you get in meat? Yeah. So this is the thing where I'm, I'm vegan, except for collagen peptides. Okay. I'm caloric restricted. So I eat 250 calories less than otherwise would be, advise for my level of activity in age. And my markers, like for example, I'll give you a few. Like my bone, my total bone mineral density is in the top 99.8 percentile of 30 year olds, which is

age men. My cardiovascular capacity is in the top 1.5 percent of 18 year olds. That's how all my body uses oxygen. You know, my nighttime erections that we talked about it is better than the average 18 year old. Just to make sure that's clear. You guys forgot. My speed of aging is slower than than 86% of 18 year olds. Because as you age, you age faster as you get older. It starts compounding upon itself.

So you want to lower your speed of aging. That's a really important one. You want your internal clock to be slow. And so you know, we know this intuitively. We see some friends. They look great for their age. Some friends are not doing so well. Or sometimes people hit a certain age and then all of a sudden

it seems like a year goes by and they deteriorate. What do you do for exercise? Yeah, that's one thing we didn't cover. Yeah, I have to know what you do for exercise. I do an hour a day. Okay. I try to flex and stretch every muscle of my body. Oh, that's, is it like almost like a sort of like a physical therapy thing?

I do weights. I do cardio. I do stretching. So the evidence doesn't say that there's any one kind of activity that is better than the other for promoting. It's just basically being active. And so I work a lot on joint strength, mobility, flexibility, flexibility. balance. Like another age test you can do is you can stand on one foot and close your eyes.

Do that all the time. Yeah. That's an age test. So I think age men is, I think, three minutes. I think that that's what it is. Yeah. People, if they do this test, it might freak some people out actually. Yeah. But when I first started experimenting with this and like kind of cleaning myself up, that was one of the tests I did. It was like, oh, got to like, let's start working on the health here. Because most people topple over. Because you get older, you lose your balance. That's one of the first things to go. It creates challenges for falling. But yeah. balance is a really important. Yeah, Taylor, come over here.

Close your eyes, stand on one foot. Let's see it. Let's see. Okay, close your eyes. I'm scared. Stand on one foot. First stand on one foot, then close your eyes. And so, yeah, exactly.

You can position your foot however you want. Yes, exactly. You can do three minutes? Yeah. So, Taylor, not to freak you out, but what do you want to get to a place where you want to get your body to a state where you can do three minutes like that, correct?

That's right. Yeah. So the markers you want, so if you're into this, is you want your speed of aging to be around 0.7 to 0.8. So mine is, my last is 0.69. And how do I find out when my speed of aging is it, is it a blood test? Yes, but it's only a finger prick. Oh, okay. It's so much better.

And so it gives you a baseline for your internal clock. So you want to slow your speed of aging. Okay. Because everything, there are some technologies to reverse any damage, but you're really just trying to get your body to slow it. So the, you could try if you wanted to, a blueprint diet. Yeah, I would love to. It's published online. So you can know the stuff I have online or you can do something like this, whatever you prefer.

And then exercise daily. Okay. It would be yes. Yeah. And then do sleep. Sleep, I'm in bed at 8.30. Yeah. That's pretty good, right?

That's very good. No phone. The problem is right now we have a four-year-old and a two-year-old. Yeah. That's the problem. Like it woken up real of the night. So this, I would, if I could do kids again, I did, I have three kids. I thought you only had one. I didn't know you had three. Yeah. Yeah. So if you could do kids again, what? Give us the advice. I would get the family. We'd all sit down and we'd say, we are a family that values sleep. How do I say that to a one year old? Yeah. So you just do it. And so, and so here's the rule family. Nobody gets out of, so unless the house is on fire, nobody gets out of their bed and nobody wakes anyone up.

Like, that's rule number one for everyone. You need to let your son cry it out. Yeah. Instead of getting up and running to his bedside. Because we're training him. Yeah. What he's saying, you have to, you have to go let him. Can you play marriage therapists here for a minute?

Yeah, sure. Let's do it. No, no, no, she's right. He needs to let our son just cry out. He's going to cry out. Yes. Right? Yes. Okay.

No, I, if Brian Johnson tells me that I'll do it. It's torture to do that. I had all sorts of parenting experts on the show. I'm not to listen to them, but you come on to me. But the kids get it. Like, even a one-year-old, you can talk to them. They get it. Right?

Like, four-year-olds, they get it. Like, you don't think they do. They understand. They absolutely understand these things. And it may take a few times and a few reiterations. But kids, as adults, as an adult, I was late to the party to understand how much kids get. And I wish I really would have internalized that sooner. I don't know if that's a good thing or about it.

How old are you? How old are you? You had your first child? 24. Okay, so it's young still, too. I mean, people have done younger, but that's young for... You are welcome to come back on the podcast anytime. There's truly 20 million other things I could have asked you.

You're very, very good at podcasting. Please come back on maybe when this is available and everyone can shop. In the meantime, go follow Brian on Instagram. He's a great follow. Thank you so much for coming on the show. Thanks for having me. Thank you for doing this, Brian. Two things before you go.

You can watch us now on YouTube, so you can go on your... YouTube, search the Skinny Confidential, and watch our entire episodes on your computer or TV. Also, you should know Michael and I are doing a him and her newsletter. So basically, it's a him and her tip of the day, five days a week. And the tips are very specific, as you can imagine. And then we also have a monthly favorites. So basically, we collect all our monthly favorites, everything we've bought and used and tried and put it in one monthly newsletter for you.

To sign up for that, go to shop. skinny confidential.com and sign up for the newsletter. Thank you so much for listening and we'll see you next time.