The Bossticks - Caitlyn Jenner On Embracing Your True Self & Identity, Finding What You Love, & Accomplishing Your Life Goals

Episode Date: January 18, 2021

#322: On today's show we are joined by Caitlyn Jenner. Caitlyn Marie Jenner is an American television personality and retired Olympic gold medal-winning decathlete. Many of our listeners may know Caitlyn from Keeping Up With The Kardashians which she starred on alongside Kris Jenner and their children Kendall and Kylie Jenner as well as Kim, Khloe, Kourtney, and Rob Kardashian. On today's show we discuss what it means to embrace your true self and identity. We also discuss how to find what you love and accomplish all of your life goals.  To connect with Caitlyn Jenner click HERE To connect with Lauryn Evarts click HERE To connect with Michael Bosstick click HERE Read More on The Skinny Confidential HERE For Detailed Show Notes visit TSCPODCAST.COM To Call the Him & Her Hotline call: 1-833-SKINNYS (754-6697) This episode is brought to you by Wanu Water Wanu water (water + nutrients) is the first-to-market, best-selling nutrient-infused water packed with 10 essential vitamins including 24% of your daily fiber intake providing natural energy that boosts your metabolism, supports a healthy immune system and quenches your appetite while you hydrate. This episode is brought to you by RITUAL Forget everything you thought you knew about vitamins. Ritual is the brand that's reinventing the experience with 9 essential nutrients women lack the most. If you're ready to invest in your health, do what I did and go to www.ritual.com/skinny  Your future self will thank you for taking Ritual: Consider it your 'Lifelong-Health-401k'. Why put anything but clean ingredients (backed by real science) in your body? This episode is brought to you by Palmers Palmer's has been caring for your skin since 1840 and is America's #1 Cocoa Butter Brand. Cocoa Butter Formula Original Solid Jar delivers 24 Hour deep hydration all over; heals and softens, leaving skin smooth & moisturized.You can find Palmer's Original Solid In Store and online at Walmart, Target, Walgreens, CVS or Amazon Produced by Dear Media

The following podcast is a dear media production. She's a lifestyle blogger extraordinaire. Fantastic. And he's a serial entrepreneur. A very smart cookie. And now Lauren Everts and Michael Bostic are bringing you along for the ride. Get ready for some major realness. Welcome to the skinny confidential, him and her.

I made a huge difference. Not talking about the trans community, not talking about any of that kind of stuff. as far as people that are struggling with their identity, okay, a huge impact. I mean, I've gotten so many letters over the years. Kids, you know, suicide nine times higher than the general public in the community. That said, I was going to commit suicide. But when I was watching and seeing what you're doing, you know what, if you're that strong, I can be that strong.

And so letters like, I mean, I got so many of those and still get them over the years. And I feel like my greatest contribution that I can make, is just being out there. Hello, hello. Welcome back to the skinny confidential him and her show. We have a guest for you today. The Caitlin Jenner is on the show. And I just have to say that she was one of the warmest, kindest, coolest celebrities that I have ever met. She came in with no big PR team, no fluff, was totally down to earth, totally herself, and she was very, very open and just cool. And we sat with her for a while. We sat for a long time. And this conversation goes all over the place. It's a wide-ranging conversation.

Really, really enjoyed our time with Caitlin. Obviously, an extremely fascinating story, an extraordinary life. And I hope you guys enjoyed this episode. Just to pimp Caitlin out, Caitlin Marie Jenner is an American television personality and retired Olympic gold medal winning athlete. Jenner has a huge established career in television film writing auto racing business and also was on the cover of Playgirl. I found that out. She's also an author, her book. I read it. It's amazing.

You guys have to check it out. Obviously, you know her from the reality TV series. Keeping up with the Kardashians. She was on it for years and years. She has six children, many which are well known. And she also did a series called I Am Kate, which focused on her gender transition. Caitlin has been called the most famous transgender woman in the world. Obviously, we all saw her on the cover of Vogue.

That was so fucking cool. And I could not be more excited to introduce you to the Caitlin Jenner. This is the skinny confidential, him and her. I loved your book. You know what? It's something that I'm extremely proud of. It was a little over two years of talking. 8,000 pages of memoirs.

Holy shit. And Buzz and I, Bissinger, and Buzz is a phenomenal writer and crazy. Absolutely. He's more crazy than I'm. I kept telling him, Buzz, you have more issues than I have, okay? But he's a Pulitzer Prize writing writer. And the two of us just hit it off from the beginning. He's actually the guy that wrote the Vanity Fair article.

Ah. That's how I met him. Okay. And so he was with me before, I mean, before anything, before I transition, this and that, he was around in the old Bruce years just because of the Vanity Fair article. And he was, Buzz was shocked that you're going to do what? And Buzz is crazy. He's outwardly cross-dresser, this. He's into all this crazy stuff. So he was with me through the whole process. And that was the Vanity Fair article. And then when, And I decided after that, and I wanted to do a book on it. Because for so many years, I never could talk about these issues. You keep all these things quiet, especially growing up for me at a very young age. You never talk about this stuff.

Well, the generations have changed so much. What's taboo 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 years ago is now it's not taboo. In fact, it's looked people like it when you're yourself. Yeah. Well, honestly, my victory in life is just waking. up in the morning and just being yourself all day. Yes. And that's hard to do.

It's hard. Do you know how much energy it takes to live my life in the old days? I can't imagine. It's not like you just had some like kind of subtle, boring life either. Yeah, yeah. You had one of the, well, yeah. Like you could not get more famous. Right.

And so I imagine it wasn't, it wasn't just like, can you live your life? It was like also living a very extraordinary life in the public eye. Yes. as if you read the book, right after the games were over with, that night. I mean, you were on my fucking serial box. Yeah, I mean, I did all that stuff. And that next morning I woke up. I was in a hotel room.

And I went into the bathroom and the metal was sitting, gold metal sitting there on the bathroom counter. And I put it on, looked in the mirror, not a stitch of clothes on, and looked at it and says, what the hell did I just do? And I build this character up so much that I'm stuck with him for the rest of my life. Is he so big now that I'm stuck with him? Because there's so much more to my story than that. And it was kind of depressing. And I really had to deal with that over the next couple of days, but then, like so many things, you just find, I call them distractions in life. They're not. They're just like going on in life because I called my kids being a parent and a father and this and that was, for me, was like this distraction from my. And so my kids go, oh, my God,

you mean, that's all we were is a distraction. And I go, no, no, no, no, you were the best part of my life by far. I said, but for my, for me, it was a distraction from who I was. Yeah, It's just something. And after the, like after the games, I just, I got into working and eventually starting families and dealing with my issues on my own secretively. I had my little ways to escape. I did it totally. I mean, I never exposed myself to any, I never talked to anybody about it. Very unselfish. Yeah, because I didn't want anything to, if actually, when I finally decided, after many, many years, raising all my kids, amazing, amazing children, which I'm so extraordinarily, I mean, that's the greatest thing I've done in my life is my kids.

If any one of them, because when I finally decided after everybody was raised, and here I was, 64 years old at the time, still dealing with the same issues I was dealing with when I was 10 years old, I thought, you know what, my whole life, I've just been here for everybody else. Now it's kind of time for me to be here myself. And what am I going to do? So obviously I brought all the kids one at a time. I wouldn't want them to gang up on me. So I started with my son, Brandon.

He was the first one because Brandon's a musician, great artist, sings, talented, talented, talented kid. I started with him. I thought he would be the easiest. And all the kids knew. They just didn't know the extent of it. they all knew. I mean, something. I had gotten caught a couple times, this and that. Brandon's mother, Linda, had talked to him about the issues, but it was like the little thing nobody talks about. So now I sat down with Brandon and his wife and I said, okay, this is what's going

on. And Brandon said to me, he goes, dad, for an hour and a half talking, goes, Dad, you know what, I've always been so proud of you to, that you're my father, that if I go to the airport and they ask for ID and they see Brandon Jenner and they said, oh, is Bruce Jenner your dad? And he would, oh, well, yeah, yeah. She goes, they all would, all the people would always say, oh, he's always so nice when he comes in and we see him all the time and this and that. And he said, I was just always being very proud to be your son. And that's your father. He says, but I've never been more proud of you than I am right now. What did that feel like after all? We cried. I mean, it was just like, yeah, finally we talked about it. He's been, and pretty much every kid has their own reaction, but I always thought if one of them said,

no, you can't do this. I probably wouldn't have done it. But nobody said that, you know. But that's also a tribute to amazing kids that you raised. So that probably makes you feel good. They're open-minded. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yes, they are open-minded. And they just want me to be happy. They're all growing up now and they're adults pretty much at the time. They were still very young. I mean, Kendall and Kylie were the youngest, but they'd already started all their stuff, their lives. And actually, Kylie had not started the cosmetic company. Kendall was just getting started in the modeling world. But they weren't worried about any of that. They just wanted me to be happy. Said, will that make you happy? And I said, yeah. So I said, okay, I'm in. Hold up. We are going to

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You can find Palmer's original solid in stores and online at Walmart Target, Walgreens, CVS, or Amazon. From Palmer's, choose what's real. All right, let's get back to the show. When you were little, do you remember an epiphany where you had where you looked in the mirror, where you had a dream or where something happened where you realized I am not in the right body? and this is uncomfortable? I never felt the sense that I'm in the wrong body. Okay? I mean, a lot of people say that,

and that's kind of a little catchphrase. Oh, I was born in the wrong body. No, I was born with the wrong head. I took my body and did everything I could with it. I was not embarrassed by it and this and that. And I look back on all of that as life goes on, and you're looking back on your life. And I found sports in fifth grade.

I was also a dyslexic kid. And so perceptually, I just had a hard time picking words up off a piece of paper. And that's the small problem. The big problem is self-confidence. You think you're not as smart as all the rest of the kids because that supposedly simple process doesn't just is not smooth for me. It doesn't work that way. But the bigger problem is lack of self-confidence.

I was afraid to go to school because I was afraid the teacher was going to make me read in front of the class. And other kids had no problem. just kind of read right through me. I would kind of struggle with it and I'd get through it. You wouldn't do a very good job with it. And I didn't want anybody to know that. So I really didn't like school. But then, so I lacked a lot of self-confidence. And also, you never talk about identity issues, especially, you know, I grew up 50s, late 50s, early 60s in school. And there wasn't even a name for it back there. So you just keep your mouth shut and move on. I did play around with my mom or my sister's clothes or this or that when nobody was around. I was always fascinated by that,

but taboo, you don't get caught. Your sister, your mom never said anything or were suspicious at all? She never knew. My mom never knew to the day I told her when she was 88, 89. She's 94 now. Yeah. Yeah, still going. She had no idea. Yeah, nobody did. My sister, my older sister, I had told her 30 years earlier. We were at dinner and I said, you know what? I want to talk to you about something I've been dealing with forever. And we talked about it and she was like in shock. I go, please, everything's fine.

I'm fine. Everybody's fine. Okay. And then we never really talked about it again after that until I decided I was going to do this. Did she just think it was like a phase? And I, maybe. But it was just like you don't talk about it. about those things. I know they don't understand. And then when I told her, finally I told her,

you know what I am doing this, she was like, oh my God, what are my girlfriend's going to say? And my first thought was, I really don't care what your girlfriends are going to say. It'll be okay. I guarantee you, you'll be okay. And honestly, everybody through this whole thing, the whole family and everybody that's close, honestly, I'm a better person this way. I have less junk to deal with in life, and I can think I can be a more loving person, especially to people that are close to me. You know, you do change one set of issues that you had growing up in most of your life. You trade that with another set of issues. What do you mean?

What's the set of issues? There's a total misunderstanding to people that are dealing with their gender identity. They don't get it. And I agree. I mean, I didn't get it. I didn't know why I felt this way. You know, I mean, I'm not blaming them for not getting it. But it's how can you go from the most masculine male as people think of you?

It's not really me, but the perception is that. Olympic champion decathlon. Athletics, good-looking great guy and this and that. How do you throw all that male privilege away? How do you throw all that stuff to what people's perception of women is that they're a They're physically weaker, emotionally weaker, all these types of things. I don't believe that, but that's people's perception. And you live it all the time.

And how can you give all that away and become, quote, a weak female? First of all, I don't think any females weak. I think females have so much over guys. Yeah, my husband can be a real pussy sometimes. Yeah, yeah. And you made him that way. I'm sitting right here, you know. Yeah, oh, you're married to do?

Oh, I didn't know that. I didn't know that. Okay, okay, I get it. All right. Yeah, you'll see some dynamics come. I understand now. Now, well, now we can talk. I didn't know.

We just met a minute ago. I didn't know the two. By the end of this, we're going to be real close. We're going to get to know each other on a very detailed. Maybe you can coach me through some things here. Yes, okay. Well, people don't understand the issue. And because of that, there's a lot of hate out there.

When you're a member of probably the most marginalized community in the world is the trans community. And people will don't understand, take shots. I just, I mean, not that I really care, but once in a while, I'll read Instagram stuff, put, you know, comments. And I go, who are these idiots? The good news is 99% of the people on who follow me all just blast them. But they always come around. And they're always the first ones there. It's like they're sitting in their room with a lot of hate. And all of a sudden, you post something. And they're like the first ones to post the remarks. Hey, Bruce, why would you, you know, this and that? In their bio, it says God is good and always be kind. And it's always a troll.

The trolls always have be kind, be you, love Jesus in their bio. I want to talk about that a little bit with you because I saw you comment on Elia Page's transition. And I also saw that take a step back. I want to talk about double standards here a little bit. I feel like when you transitioned, I'm very happy that your family was so supportive and the people close were supportive. But I feel there's a double standard where like you also got a lot of shit from a lot of people that. are very supportive of other people in Hollywood transitioning, but maybe if you don't fit that agenda or that kind of typecast, if they're not as forgiving with someone like yourself. And I wonder if you've ever thought about that double standard. See, we're going to get into some territory. We can talk about that stuff off the air. Yeah, I got to be very careful with that. The trans community is probably more critical than the general public. You mean of you transitioning compared to someone like an Elliott transitioning. Of me being a being white, I have a job, I've been successful, I have white privilege, celebrity privilege, I've got every privilege there is in the world. I agree with that.

I do. I've worked hard my whole life. And for that, you can't be a spokesperson for the community. Why do you think that is? Yes, yes, because you didn't, you know, live in the gutter and 25% of all prostitutes are trans women. You didn't go hooking for a living and this and that. So you don't, you don't understand. You don't understand. You know, at first, I would say I had thought I could really make a difference and change the world. And in a lot of ways, I did just being myself. But, I mean, I tried to do things politically. I was back in Washington, D.C. all the time, trying to change things. And because politically, obviously, is a big issue that we have. I would go back, in the first couple of years, go back every couple of months back in Washington, D.C., meet with senators and congressmen and

this and that on the issues. I had dinner with 15 evangelical Christian conservative Republican senators and congressmen. Okay. We call them the enemy. And we had this dinner. And it was me actually and another trans girl. We sat there for three hours talking about the issues, trying to explain things to them. And actually, by the end, it worked out very well.

I made friends of everyone. I'm still friends with some of them. to know, you know, that I can call them up and say, hey, look, I did a lot of that. But I did a deal with Mac for lipstick and 100% of the sales went to the Mac AIDS fund, which is a big problem in the trans community also. We gave away a lot of money, $2.2 million. That it kind of inspired me to start my own foundation. And over a couple of years, I raised about $600,000.

Gave it to trans organizations here and this and that. me tell you, it was very disappointing for me after near the end that I would help some of the organizations here in the Los Angeles area. And they would have an event that I helped pay for. And they would ask me not to come because I'm too controversial. And I said, fine, I don't need to come. I'm not looking for all that kind of stuff. But why do you think it is that your country? Even I watched that Comedy Central Rose who did, which I thought you were great on, by the way, and also a very good sport. But I think- I had a lot of fun with that. I looked like it, but I think about like if they were as hard on someone like an Elliott

page or any other trans person in the trans community as they were on you, people would be up in arms. But for some reason, when they do it to you, it's okay. And I wonder if you just, if you think about that or had any response on that. Because they were hard on you. Oh, yeah. Well, you started off. You were everything was apple pie and ice cream.

And then, yeah, they came down. I was on the wrong side of issues for them. I've always been conservative and more on the Republican side. than anything. And I mean, that's like a taboo. Oh, my God, you can't do that. You have to be a liberal Democrat and all that kind of stuff. Well, I never have been, never will be, you know. I mean, I believe in limited government and all that good stuff. And certainly social issues, we need to take care of the people. But the only way we can take care of the people is with an absolute boom in economy, you know, and everybody's got a job and everybody's working. And so, you know,

those are the types of things that that I believe in. But you just can't do that. And you know, you're white, and I've had members of the community just tear into me. And I was like, guys, I'm only trying to help. I'm here to help. That's what I find ironic, though, because you had such a powerful platform and such a known face and personality and you doing something like this should be an indicator in a beacon for anyone else that feels the way you did to also feel empowered in their transition if they're liquid. And for some reason, like you still get shit for it. In that, I, as far as the community, it was as far as making, a change in the world when I transitioned, okay? I made a huge difference, okay? No doubt. Not talking about

the trans community, not talking about any of that kind of stuff, as far as people that are struggling with their identity, okay, a huge impact. I mean, I've gotten so many letters over the years, especially right at the beginning of kids, you know, suicide nine times higher than the general public in the community that said, I was going to commit suicide. But when I was watching and seeing what you're doing, you know what? If you're that strong, I can be that strong. And so letters like, I mean, I got so many of those and still get them over the years. And I feel like my greatest contribution that I can make is just being out there without trying to change the world. Just be out there. do shows. I did a show last year in London, or in Australia for British television. Huge,

big show and all that kind of stuff. But it was just be out there. Life didn't end if you transition. I also think that one of the best things about you is that you were perceived as so masculine and the best in all the sports and you were so competitive. And I think that that shows maybe someone that is masculine that they can transition to if they're uncomfortable with their gender. Just about to talk about one of your favorite brands, Ritual. Okay, guys, they have covered all their bases here. Not only do they have ritual for men now. They also have essential for kids.

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during your first three months. All you guys need to do is visit ritual.com slash skinny to start your ritual or add Essential for Kids today. Enjoy. Yes, I look at it this way. And you don't think about it at the time, but I look at this way. The reasons for my success in sports, okay? One, dyslexic, you know, I had low self-esteem. Secondly, my identity issues, which I had as a very young kid, but I could go on the football field.

Take a guy who's a good student, good reader, you know, doesn't have any issues in life and clean his clock. Just crush him. And that's a good feeling. And that was it set up a pattern in my head. I look back on that. I often say if I did not have those issues, I would never be in the place that I'm in today. Okay?

They actually, I used what I considered my weaknesses to be my greatest strength because it made me more determined than the next person. I worked harder than the next person. It was more important for me to do well in sports. because I had all these, I never told anybody. Didn't tell my parents, this hell nobody. But it's just, it's all in your head. Why you out-trained him. As I went up the ladder, I wasn't just trying to make my high school team,

I'm now trying to be the best in the world at something. It was just totally so driven. And I look back on that life and I go, Jesus, I was kind of crazy. I mean, all the training and everything that I was doing. But if I would have been average, if I would have been like any kid, every kid, you know, been an okay reader, middle of the road student, No identity issues, this and that. When sports came along, I wouldn't have needed it.

So it would have been like every other kid when it comes to sports. Oh, sports is kind of fun and this and that. You go do it. But to me, it was much more important. You used it to fuel you instead of victimize you. Yeah. In a weird way, these identity thoughts that you're having, like they helped fuel you to become a world champion.

Is that what you're saying? Absolutely. What kind of mindset do you have to be in to get to that level of champion? I mean, like, when you're competing against the best in the world, like what goes, what do you have to be thinking on a daily, weekly basis in order to compete at that level? You have to be crazy at some level to get that. Well, I trained the last 12 years, the decathlon running that, in particular the last six of those years. That's basically all I did was train.

I trained six to eight hours a day, every day, 365 days out of the year. I put the work in, competed all over the world. The last three years of my career, I never lost a man. meet. I want every meet I was in. I broke the world record twice before going to the games and then broke it again at the games and then walked away. But I was totally, I mean, I lived on nothing. In fact, a couple days ago, this good friend of mine, Ron Michael, and he was also in San Jose when I was training the last four years. And he was a little older, former All-American in the discus, now in the business world. He helped me make a few bucks so I could train more, you know.

We've been friends ever since. We've been playing golf. And it was his 80th birthday, and we were out celebrating his 80th birthday for a round of golf at Sherwood. But it was people like that that turned around and helped me. I lived really cheap. I lived in a $145 a month apartment, one little bedroom right next to the track. I drove a 63 VW bug. I paid $175 for.

And you don't need a lot of money to train, and you just need to eat well and take your vitamins and surround yourself with really good people. And that's what I was able to do. Training was intense, but I also had an ending. For me, I could give up a lot of things back then in the 70s. Why? Because on the 30th of July, in 1976, it was going to be over with. I was done. I'm moving on. There's so many more important things and things that I have to do in my life that I don't want to spend my whole life running around a track. I'll do it now. And that finality of it all really helped. You said something, and I felt this in your book too.

You said you looked in the mirror after you won the medal and you felt depressed. Do you think that was because you maybe got an astronaut syndrome where you did everything that you could possibly do with that? And it almost made you feel depressed because it's like where are you going to go when you're on the top? Not at all. I walked away. I walked away that night. I broke the world record that day for the third time. I was retired, I'm done. And I kind of looked, thought to myself, you know what, I am the luckiest human

being in the world. I said, how many athletes retire from sports and have climbed every mountain? There was no other mountains to climb. I remember the first time I broke the world record, I was ecstatic. I said, God, I got that thing in 1975 year before. Second time I did it, I go, hey, I had a good meet. I'd already climbed that mountain, but you just put that mountain a little bit higher. And I thought, I have no regrets whatsoever. I did, I climbed every mountain, did everything I wanted to do. Not too many people can say that. So walk away, satisfied, and move on to honestly the more important things in life, like life itself. I had no regrets. I was very happy. But I was very lucky also. I was the right person in the right place at the right time in 1916. 76, everything came together. It was the highest rated Olympic Games of all time. Nowadays,

if they get like a top show, if you get like a 20 share, you're like the biggest hit in history. 1976, we were getting between 70 and 75 shares. The entire country watched. Okay, it was a different time. It was our bicentennial year. I wonder what it would have been like if there was social media then. Yeah, no social media. Wild. Honestly, no cable industry. This was the last Olympics before cable came in 76. I think HBO started 78 with the cable industry, and then ESPN was 79. So you just had three networks to watch.

It was our bicentennial year. Three weeks earlier, we celebrated 200 years of this country. Patriotism is at its height. Everything's there. It's the right time zones because it's in Montreal, Canada, right over the river. so it's in the New York time zone so everything was done live. Nobody knew what the results now

with the internet, the results before it even goes on TV unless it's really live, live. But because of time zones, things change. So yeah, I was kind of just in the right place at the right time. And this is, you were married to your first wife at this point? Yes.

Okay, and so you had two kids? Three kids. Eventually, we had two kids together. Two kids. But not yet. And not yet. And so when you won and you were a static did she feel the same excitement?

Yes, obviously. We were very excited, both of us. But as you look back on it, it was probably one of the reasons eventually four years later, five years later, that the marriage probably collapsed because as I'm talking to a married couple, okay? Have us some advice.

We need some advice. Tell us everything. People change. Okay. Okay. Constantly change. What circumstances? are this and that. People change all the time. And for a relationship to be able to stay together

while you have great changes in each one of your lives, okay, it's tough to do. I look at a lot of older couples that people have married 40 years with you. They really haven't had many changes in their life. Okay. They've been kind of the same people. They get up in the morning, they go to work, they come home, they have dinner, they may go do something, this and that. They pretty much stays the same thing. But like with the games, I mean, here I was just totally obsessed with training and winning. And Christy was a flight attendant for United Airlines. So she went off on her trips. And then all of a sudden, after the games, I couldn't walk down the street in New York City. Nobody knew who I was. I was living in a hundred forty-five dollar a month apartment. And all of a

sudden after the games, you're this big superstar. You're doing commercials for Wheaties and this and that. What is that do to your psyche? Not mine. at all. Didn't bother you. To be honest with you, I thought it was pretty funny, you know? Also, it's pretty cool, too. Well, yes, cool. It's, look, you get a job.

I remember the guy handed me the contract three months after the game, so I'm living on $700 a month and handing me the contract for General Mills and says, congratulations, you're a millionaire. I went, oh, geez, okay. Yeah, things change quickly. But, yeah, I'll always remember the fact about 30 years later I ran into him. And I said, oh, my God, you're the guy who hand me to that contract and said, congratulations. And I said, boy, do I remember that moment.

But in like in a relationship, it changed our relationship dramatically. I mean, where I was in my life, where she was in her life. It's almost like you went way out here. She's back here. The dynamics of the relationship was, it just puts an enormous strain on everybody. You know, she's, Christy, she's a good person. I mean, I don't have any issues with her and this and that. We had, you know, and then we wound up after the games having two children,

which are great kids, Bert and Casey, and have gone on to lead great lives. But, yeah, to keep a relationship together, when things do change, can you change together? It's a really good tip. Really good tip. So then you met Linda at the Playboy Mansion, right? Oh, Jesus. You bring it up all the trash. We're in Hollywood.

We're looking out over Hollywood and you're bringing a. up the Hollywood stuff. I'm just reciting your book that I was, that I read by the way, if you guys have not read Caitlin's book, it is so good. I read it up in my life, my Caitlin Jenner. Yeah, I'm really proud of it. Yeah, it's, I have to tell you, I read it in like two days. Yeah, yeah, it's, it's very good. Yeah, I'm very proud of it. It's very honest. Boy, is it? Yeah, and I, I, I liked that. Okay, you meet Linda at the Playboy Mansion. Yes. What did you notice first about her? She looked good. She's a good. She's a beautiful woman. Yeah. So did you, so did you, you go up to her immediately or were you like, because I imagine as an Olympian. Well, it was,

we were at the Playboy Mansion because it was Sunday afternoon and there was a celebrity tennis match there. I was playing a lot of tennis at the time. That's why I was there. It wasn't like a nighttime thing. And so I went up there. I knew nothing about it. I just looked good. And we came over. We started talking, this and that, kept talking throughout the day. And basically, I was separated from Christy, but it wasn't public. We lived apart. We were separated and kind of free, and the first time I was ever free. And so anyway, we went out for a little bit. And then Christy came back and we tried to work it out for about six months, four months. She eventually left again. You know, I called Linda. So guess what? She's gone again.

Because I never talked to her in between. We hit it off. We had a good time. And then wound up having two great boys, Brandon and Brody. Hold up. We are talking about the first to market bestselling a nutrient-infused water with 100 essential vitamins, including, and this is my favorite part, 24% of your daily fiber intake, okay? Wano water. This is so weird. Before I even worked with them, I ordered their peach passion, fell in love with it. I was using it for skinny margaritas, even like a vodka soda with a little slice of orange or lemon is so good. But you can also drink it plain and be super high. healthy, but I'm just saying I ordered it for my skinny margaritas, fell in love with it. Then we had the opportunity to interview the founders. We heard everything about their mission. And I just feel like it's so

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with Linda for at this point? Not long. Four years. Four years. And just to give you background, Linda is, and I hope I'm saying this right, Elvis's ex-wife or girlfriend? Girlfriend. So that's a whole different story to unpack, I'm sure, as well. Okay, so you're with Linda for four years. You're up on all of this. I can't help it. The book is so good. I'm telling you. You guys, it's like, I'm a big reader. I love to read an autobiography is my favorite. And you're like, I have to tell you. Buzz, you guys did a good job.

Buzz was great. Yeah, it was great. He really did a great every time I would read like the chapters and stuff. And I remember I went talking to Buzz and we were talking about the games for days. And I go, Buzz, I don't want to talk about the games. I'm so sick of the games. I got other things I'm doing now. Why are we talking about the games?

And he goes, you've got to put it in context. People don't know that are reading this, what you accomplished, and where you were back then. You need to really establish that to a lot of people so they can understand today. I think it's so important. Yeah, it is. It is important. But at the time, I'm just like, this is a book about me. You were done with that.

You were done at the past. That was done. So about a week later, I have some off-road vehicles. And I'm with my son, Bert. He's raced his cars and this and that. we were getting with a bunch of his buddies and we were taking it back up into out into the desert. And so we stopped at this place for breakfast. I'm fully transitioned at this point.

No, wait a second. No, it was before I transitioned, before we came out on it. We're sitting around the table with all these kids, you know, these guys are like 20, 21 years old and this and that. And somebody brought up something about the Olympics and the guy turns around and looks and he goes, you were in the Olympics? I go, yeah. Actually, it was. It goes, well, how did you do?

You know, I said, well, I won, won a gold medal and actually broke the world record that day. Because, oh, my God, really? And I thought, this was like a week after I'd had the conversation with Buzz about the games. I said, you know what, you're right? To put the whole thing in proper perspective, you need to do that. No, it's good. We all needed context. I think that that's such an important part of your life.

Besides putting in YouTube, running the 400 meters or something like that, yeah. So after Linda, you met Chris. As you remember from the book, after Linda and I, we went our separate directions. Those were six years of struggling for me. I was trying to figure myself out. Okay. And how did that manifest itself? Like, what was the main struggle?

Who am I? Yeah, it seemed like you were, it seems like you're very, very creative. but it seems like, and this is how me and my husband are, he kind of comes in and helps me refine, refine, refine. It seems like in the book, this is what it seemed like Chris did that for you. She helped refine your vision and execute on what it needed to be. I was fortunate. If I would have met her three years before we did,

because I took six years off in life, and I moved to a little, I leased a little house in Malibu, really small little place. Didn't really want to work. I'm trying to figure myself out. I thought, I'm going to transition before I'm 40. I can't take this. Oh, you were thinking about it right then.

Oh, yeah. This was 84 to 85 in there. I was on hormones. You know how back then in the 80s before the internet, how difficult it is like to find a therapist to find anything you can't? And eventually you keep plugging along and eventually I found this therapist who doesn't. this issue. It's the first person I ever sat down and talked to about everything. Good old Trudy Hill. I was with her for like five years. But had electrolysis done doing all these things to,

I want to do this before I'm old. I don't want to be like an old chick and all this sort of stuff. I want to be able to enjoy myself and this and that. So I'm going to do it before I'm 40. So I got to 39 after doing all this. I'd been on hormones for four and a half years. The rumor mills were kind of going about me. What were they saying? Well, the New York Times was going to write an article that I was a cross-dresser because I had had a little bit of a nose job. I had a peek in my nose. I had that done, which is really small. But I had been on hormones, which changes your appearance somewhat.

I had had complete electrolysis done. That was two and a half years of getting needles stuck in your face. Yeah, it was very painful. So I was getting all this stuff done. The rumor mill started back then. And it was started with the New York Times. just going to write an article that I was a cross-dresser. Did they give you a heads up or they were just, or you heard from somebody else?

I had a PR company, good old Alan Nirob at Rogers and Cowan. And he was kind of just getting started in the PR business. And didn't someone see you at a hotel or something? Is that? That happened later. That's later. Okay. Go ahead. My, Alan, my PR guy calls up and says, this guy wants to do this article saying, you're a cross-dresser. Alan really didn't know much at the time and said, ooh. Oh, okay.

That's not going to work. In my head, I'm not a cross-dresser. Okay. I'm just, although I do cross-dress, I'm not a cross-dresser, okay? I'm just trying to be myself. I said, Alan, okay, we've got to have a meeting. So I have this very powerful lawyer, Alan Rothenberg, my manager, George, and Alan, and we sit down in a room. And I kind of told him my story.

and I said this is what I've been dealing with all my life on and on and on. They're all kind of surprised, but they go, okay. And so I said, but you've got, I can't, you know, I can't bring, have this article come out. I mean, Jesus, just kill me. So, Alan, shut the article down. He just called him up and just kept saying, are you kidding me? I'm, you know, are you, Bruce Jenner? Yeah, right, okay?

Don't write something that's, so we kind of talked the guy out of it. But still, the rumor was. out there. I got to 39 and I just couldn't go any further. Couldn't do it. As I look back on it, it just wasn't time for me. Everybody does it in their own time frame. Every transition is different. Everything, you know, you got to do it in your own way. What's right for you? And God, and I said, I just can't do it. I don't know what I'm going to do. I'm going to live in this house for six years, not being a good parent. I wasn't good with my kids. I was just not a good person at that time. I said, okay, I got to get back into life.

I just can't do this sitting here every day by myself. I got to get back into life. And then, honestly, about four months later, five months later, because my head was a little more open. Candace Garvey, Steve Garvey, the baseball players, his wife, we were on a fishing trip and she brought up this. She knew Chris. She goes, oh, my God, you know, I got to set you up.

Oh, God. Anyway, we did wind up going out about a week later. We all went out to dinner. Yeah, that was it. We were together married five and a half months later. She had four kids. I had four kids. We kind of tried to do our best to blend a family of eight kids.

Yeah, we had 23 really good years together. What do you think it was about Chris that made that relationship move so fast when after you guys met? It sounds like it was just like lightning in a bottle right away. For me, she was very different. She was very classy. had a great sense of style to her. She was very smart. I always liked strong women, and she was very strong. I've always put kind of women up on a pedestal, and I love strong women, independent women,

and she was all of those things. And she was very different for me. I mean, you know, she lived in Beverly Hills, and I'm not a Beverly Hills person. She had just been going through a divorce, and, no, we just kind of hit it off from the beginning. And then she kind of, like helped you, I feel like it seemed, and you helped her in a way, like really create this massive brand. Because. Oh, she did. Yes.

God, yes. So what did she? She saw all these like accomplishments that you had. And then it seems like she was able to like. At the beginning. At the beginning, I had not really, for those six years, I was hanging out in a least house in Malibu, not really been motivated to work. And then I'm thinking, oh, boy, okay.

I would get married, pick up four more kids, I got four. I got to get back to work. And so Chris and I talked about that a lot. She goes, well, I'm going to take it over. I'm going to run this thing. And I go, oh, okay, go do it. And so I had had my manager for 17 years. We walked into a meeting.

The two of us kind of just as we were engaged, but we weren't married yet. She just basically said, you're going to be fired. I'm taking over. Jesus. Yeah. And he goes, huh?

He was a little upset to say the least. Went to my accountants, all that sort of stuff. You're gone. We're taking everything in-house. And I had done a lot of public speaking. I do motivational speaking for, you know, ever since 19, my first Olympics in 1972.

And that always been, that was just kind of the constant was always there speaking engagements. But I had not done much because I just hadn't been motivated at all. She goes, well, we're going to start with that. And so she made up these beautiful brochures and starts sending them out to speakers bureaus and making contacts and all of a sudden speaking started coming back. And then we started in the first year, the infomercial world, early 90s, was just getting started. And I was asked to do this infomercial, the stair climber plus. I thought, you know, why not? Let's look into it. And so Chris and I did him together. That was the first time she'd ever done anything on camera. It was so funny. She was so

bad. She was a Beverly Hills housewife. She had never, she'd never been like speaking in front of a camera, like looking at a camera and being, you know, yourself and this and that. So the first, I stood behind the camera and I'm watching her first on camera. And I went, oh my God. It didn't even sound like you. Who was that person that was talking there? And anyway, I said, tried to help her get her, you know, calm down. It's okay. Anyway, eventually she got really good, just like all my kids. They got really good. And that was kind of the beginning. And then that started generating something and has led to other things, to other things, to other things. And, you know, eventually the show. Do you feel like you got like a second win there for, in terms of your career?

Like, do you feel like you had purpose again? Because during that six-year period, it sounds like you were kind of trying to find yourself in both professionally and personally. And then with this, do you feel like it was like a second wind or like how did you feel during the time? It was a second, third and fourth wind. Yeah, it was a lot. But I've never been much like career motivated. Like, I've got to do this or this and that.

I like making a decent money is not that important to me. It's just that I like to have a decent house. I don't want a big house, decent house, maybe a couple of nice toys. I'm fine. A golf course I can go to. I don't need any more than that. I don't need massive homes. I've had those.

I don't want a home where I have to have an intercom put into just so I can find my kids. I'm like that too. Whenever I envision my life, even if I made a shit ton of money, I would rather have something. I don't know if it's a control thing. I don't want an intercom. I like simple. Yeah. I agree with that.

that. Yeah. What is it like, and this is kind of a plot twist, but what is it like being a massive celebrity? Like, what's the weirdest thing about it? Because you live so much of your life normal. Well, what I told my kids, I said to them, first of all, every person you meet can do something better than you can do. So true. So true, they can do something better than you can do. So don't get on your high horse and think you're hot shit, okay? Because they can do something better than you. They've been better in math in high school or whatever, or whatever it is. I've met kids and they seem like just these normal little kids, nice kids, maybe a little shy, this and that.

And then they walk up to a piano and they just can rock the piano. I go, Jesus, where did that come from? I didn't know they could do something. I either play the violin or do something, play sports, whatever it is. They can all do something. So stay humble, number one. number two first of all and be nice to everybody i would always tell them this story i would say be nice to everybody even the person carrying your bags 1976 the first show i ever did was for abcc sports

was battle of the network stars net war one pepperdown university with howard co-cell me and howard hosting this celebrity event and we were back in new york doing the voiceovers running a little late and so this is 1976. So we asked one of the production guys if they'd go over to my hotel room, throw my stuff in a bag, because I had a plane to catch, and then just get in his car

and then wait at the bottom, Rockefeller Center, just wait down there. So as soon as I'm done, because it was running late, I can run down there and boom, he gets me out to the, and he was a nice, good-looking guy, very nice guy.

Anyway, that guy today, Bob Iger. Oh, shit. Okay. Oh my God. That is such a good story. I hope that's in his book. Yeah.

I just finished his book. Well, yeah. Oh, yeah. I always called him my valet. I'm when I was saying, Bob, Bob, I got my bags over. Could you get those for me? You know, and everybody. Oh, my God, you can't talk to him.

You don't understand. Bob and I go back. And I'm a new Willow before he had even, she had met Bob. Yeah. So I say, be nice to everybody with the kids. I said, you have to look at being a celebrity. you're going to look at a lot of different ways but look at that is first of all

it's kind of a bunch of BS what being a celebrity is but more importantly if you look at it as a business just like any other business that's out there being a celebrity can be a business and boy did my kids listen to me on that one

you don't say yeah you can be a celebrity to build a very good life for yourself okay and you have have to treat it like a business. And the things you do, the things you say, the way you build your brand or build your business. I also told them, I said, you can only build up so much equity in yourself. Okay. What does that mean? You can only build up so much equity in the sense that what your time is worth and what your image is worth. You can only build up so much. When the Wheaties contract is

over with, okay, that's gone. You move on hopefully to the next. thing. I said, if you really want to build something, you have to build businesses, because then you not only build equity in yourself, but you build even a hundred times more equity in your business. That's where the value lies. Okay. So being entrepreneurial, starting businesses, all that kind of stuff. And they certainly took me on that one. Yeah, they all started businesses. Smart. When you think about Kylie and Kendall, and the reason I ask about them is because your other kids are older and they grew up in a time where maybe there wasn't as much of the, they weren't as public.

But Kylie and Kendall were so young when everything was taking off and they've always been in the, like since, I mean, what, 10, 12 years old since they've been in the public eye, are there things that you would tell them or caution against that you don't have to talk to the older kids about? Because they've only ever been in the public eye. Yeah. No, my kids, they didn't really even want to be in the show at the beginning. To be honest with you, Chris decided, and I agreed with her, that we would take.

any money that they made. They were only like nine, ten years old. They're young. Very young when the show started. And that we would put it in a trust account for them and they couldn't touch it until they're 18, never thinking that the show would go that long. What's been now, 20-something years? Yeah, it's been on like 13 years, I think. They've done over 500 episodes. Yeah, it's been on forever. And anyways, they put all their money away. They certainly didn't need it. They were living nice, very nice lives. But then when they were 18, they had this nice little nest egg so they could go out and do stuff. And that's how Kylie started, Kylie Cosmetics, gave Kendall the freedom to go out and she wanted to get in the modeling world.

Yeah, I remember Kendall telling me she was like 15, 16, somewhere in there. She goes, I'm going to be a victorious secret model. And I look like that. I'm not going to discourage her. I said, great. I put it in my head, I'm thinking, right. And long behold, when she turned 18, she didn't even have a job in the modeling world. She got an agent.

She went to New York, cold calls. Nobody knew who she was besides obviously from the show, but nobody really knew who she was. And kept going on little calls, getting turned out for runway stuff. And then finally, Mark Jacobs gave her a job. and she went out and did her first runway with Mark Jacobs. And I saw you at the Victoria's Secret Fashion Show. I think it was the New York one. Yes.

And she was walking down the runway. Well, she told me, she goes, months before, she goes, I'm going to do the Victoria's Secret, you know, show. And I said, oh, that's so cool. It is cool. I'm going to be there. and she goes, no. I said, what do you mean? No, she says, no, I don't want you to come.

She really has this thing about this is my thing. Not the family stuff. This is my deal. Okay. I come and I create a commotion or whatever it is. It takes away from her. And I said, okay, I'm going to be there. Okay.

I'll be as quiet and discreet as I possibly can. but I guarantee you I will be in the front row, but I won't do too much hooting and hollering. I said, but you told me three, four years ago that you wanted to be a Victoria's Secret model and you're there going down the runway. I'm going to be there to see it. That's all there is to it. It's done. Literally we know four years later, she would be the most successful highest paid model in the world. But she did it through hard work. Kendall, I mean, she would go out for a week on the road and literally travel around the world. working in different places all around the world.

She'd be back eight days later, nine days later, and she'd literally circumnavigated the world and done modeling jobs on all these different places. She would never stop. I mean, she worked really hard. She would be on all night flights and going here, going there. It's a tough business. Yeah, that's why she got there.

Out of all your kids, who do you see yourself in the most? Because it sounds like Kendall, maybe. Kendall and I have a lot in common. Yeah. She's very athletic. We kind of both had the same attitude towards life. And I get along very well with the two of them. But Kylie and I just seem to be closer at most of the time.

Kendall's off kind of doing her thing. Kylie, like I did her last night at Kylie's house. We try to do that once a week, once every two weeks. I go over there and she always has these great meals prepared. She doesn't do them. yeah she doesn't she doesn't cook rice meals yeah but they're so good but it's it's better than a better than a restaurant sophia like one last so sophia kiley and myself and just three of us nobody around and this and that just in the house she has some beautiful homes just talk for an

hour and have a glass of wine and talk about stuff and this and that and so from that standpoint we're a lot closer kendall's not that she's always very kind of a little bit of more secretive. We're still very close. But it's kind of harder to figure out where Kylie's more of an open book. Let me ask you this. In your life and in your family's life, being so public, are there things you miss about anonymity? Like being not so public. Because I look at this all a time. And in a way, like, everybody looks at celebrities. It's like, oh, my God, this like pinnacle of fame. But I look at it another way where sometimes I feel bad in a way if someone like yourself is out and you can't be left alone or you can't eat, you know, dinner without people

snapping your pictures or you can't have people listening. Like, do you ever miss that part of your life? No, I'm always nice, nice to everybody. You know, you don't want a picture. I'll take a picture. And my kids sometimes it's very difficult because they can get overwhelmed out there. But because of what I've been able to do and the business I've been able to develop, I have a very good life.

You know, I've got a great, nice little house out in Malibu. I got, I'm into aviation. I got my airplane. I can race cars. I can do this. And that, first of all, after I transitioned, I thought, can I still do all that stuff? And I thought, why the hell not?

Yeah, I have my life outside of that. It's like when you go off of the property, it's your work, you can be working. But you never miss just being able to just walk down the street without people. They've always looked at me. Yeah. You know what? It's like, it's almost like when you leave your compound, what's going to happen?

here's the deal. It's almost like being a celebrity, it's like being, you'll be able to, Lauren, understand this, being a beautiful woman out in public, you get stared at. True? She gets stared at. You know, guys are all looking. You're walking down a street. Guys are staring at you. Rightfully so. I mean, and so I've always kind of felt being a celebrity is like that because then you stand out. okay you got the blonde hair very beautiful face you're great and you but you're used to that you can handle yourself some guy makes some comment you can handle yourself you know you know how to deal with that and it's the same way as being a celebrity you're recognized for your face and who you are and what you've accomplished and all that kind of stuff people would stare at you the tougher part

is especially in today's world and i've seen it change since i've been around for so long is social media and the public. It's social media can be absolutely brutal. With people commenting or people like taking pictures of, like in what kind of way? No, so just, it's a tremendous loss of people's privacy. Yeah. Okay. Tremendous loss of my privacy. Even, but I use, I mean, I use social media and, but I use it to see what, what can I do? I like to community. I just started a YouTube channel. Okay. So what can we expect on your YouTube channel. Well, I do everything. I've got about 15 shows, 16 shows that I've done so far. During the pandemic, I got nothing to do. I've never not worked. Why do you not have a podcast?

I've thought about that. It becomes a lot of work. You like the YouTube channel, just because I like doing the visual kind of stuff. Okay. And because that's what I've always done. It's been on camera and this and that. On my YouTube channel, I just do a wide variety of everything done from cooking shows to make-up tutorials. Love it. To fly in my airplane. Okay. I had one the other day.

I've got a gopher problem. What do you mean? I have a lot of gophers on my property. Okay. And they're coming and eating my plants. I mean, I'm going to go to Caitlin Jenner's property if I'm a gopher too. Sorry. Yeah.

So they all came up and they're eating all. I have like these cactus type things that stick up and they like them. And so, of course, I get on you. YouTube. And I just say, I need help. And would you go to my YouTube channel and go on Instagram, tell them, go over there. I need some help, please. And I go on. And I got this whole thing about my gophers. I show them where they've eaten all these plants and I got pieces of plants all over the place. I'm showing them the holes. How do I get rid of them? I don't want to really kill them. But if I can catch them and then just take them off in the mountains and I'll get rid of them

and let them do their thing up there. And oh my God, I got thousands of them. comments of people coming up with every, right down to call Bill Murray. That's a good one. I thought that was a really good one. Yeah, call Bill Murray. Oh, you do it this way. They gave me suggestions on different type of plants to plant that the gophers wouldn't go after.

I mean, a lot of really good stuff. So I bought three cages and I put, you know, lettuce in there. I put some carrots in there. They got these cages where I can just go catch them. And I put it out there for days and all I caught was rabbits. I got to go watch this. Lauren, if you don't get that Bill Murray-Catashog reference, we might not be able to stay together. I know.

Yeah. And I never caught one gofer, but I caught a lot of rabbits. But I let the rabbits go. They were well-fed rabbits when they left in the morning. So the gophers are still there? The goat, well, I don't know. That's a very good question because as I walked by the area, they were all at, they've eaten everything. There's nothing left for them to eat.

And so I'm wondering, did they move on? Maybe. Maybe they moved on. But more importantly, when you were outside, were you wearing sunscreen? Yes, as a matter of effect, I always wear my sunscreen, which brings up our subject of Lumisole. Yes. Tell us about this situation and how it all got started.

Yeah, how it got started. Give us the background. Okay. Sophia, my good buddy, she moved. She went to Pepperdine, really, really, really smart. A lot of fun to be around about four, four and a half years ago. When she got out of Pepperdine, she wound up moving in to my house because I was there all by myself.

We've been best of friends. Everybody asked, oh, are you romantically involved? No, we're just the best of friends, okay? And over the years, now, Sophia is an amazing person. She was a finance and economics major, finance major at Pepper. She was like president of the freshman, sophomore, junior classes of Pepperdine. Amazing career. She won the state debate champion in the state of Washington.

And she's probably calling me right now looking for me. The worst it would be is because she's keeping up. She says, how long you've been there? What have you said? Yeah. What have you said? I know. What have you said?

Tell her she can come on next time. Yeah. Well, she said, yeah. Oh, it's my son, Brandon. Well, wait, I know what he's asking. Uh-oh. Yeah. I know exactly what he's asking.

Yes, my son, Brandon. But anyway, she's just amazing. So when she came in, she was only young. She was like 20 years old, 21 years old. 20 years old, I think she moved in. But she was great. I mean, we had a lot of fun. We did things together, this and that.

So I've always had a problem with my skin. The aging process is not for cissies. Okay? And I've always had this issue. When I was young, I was out in the sun my whole life. I was a competitive water skier, obviously, track and field. They did all these things. Never, you know, nobody wore sunscreen.

And now you pay for it. I've had these all sorts of issues, particularly basal cell carcinomas that just don't go away. You've got to get them surgically removed. And I had one on my cheek that we had to remove, easy to remove. You can just close it up. I had one on my forehead next year. And you have to stay on top of that pretty frequently, right? Like you have to get checked out.

Oh, I get checked out all the time. Yeah. And then I had one on my nose right there. Okay. And I'm looking at it and it's getting redder and you can see and it won't go away. You can put stuff on it just ain't going away. So I go to my dermatologist. Anyway, I have a cut out.

A 10 millimeter hole right on the end of my nose right here. Okay. The only way they can get rid is to cut it out. they cut it out and then I had to drive across town to a plastic surgeon and he took this made this big S cut on my nose all the way across like this took all the skin off my nose and we were shooting it for keeping up the poor cameraman Caesar was going I was I couldn't look at you I could only look at the lens because then it wasn't real you know take all and then re put all the skin back over to close up the hole because you don't have

skin to bring in there. So they have to kind of redo all the skin. Anyway, the guy did an amazing job. Cut to five years ago, I start seeing a red spot in the same spot. I'm thinking, oh, man, they did get it all and this and that. So I go to, I got a new dermatologist. I go there, and of course, there's new technology. And they have this like chemo cream. It attacks the bad cells. Got to put it on for like five days, six days, morning and night. I, you know, diligently put it on. At the end of five days, six days, you know, it was red, but it wasn't on the sixth day. I looked like Rudolph the red nose reindeer. My whole, and it was just this has a red nose at the end. Of course, I'm trying to avoid the paparazzi's. I don't need to have

to explain this to everybody. And of course, I come around in Malibu, I come around the corner, and there's a guy with a camera, bang, gets a shot. I got this big thing. And now it's, Caitlin has got a bad reaction to plastic surgery and, you know, all the, all the tabloid stuff. They all come up with all this stuff. So, Sophia and I and I said to her, I said, you know what, let's no makeup on, no nothing, sit on the end of the bed with my big red nose, take a picture on Instagram and just say effects of sun damage, wear your sunscreen. And boy, I got some big response to that.

People were sending me product and this and that. So Sophia said, she goes, started, we should start a sunscreen company. And I looked at her and I loved motivating young people. And I said, you know what? You're right. Go do it. That was kind of her reaction. She fucking executed.

Oh, yeah. Boy, did she? And I said, I knew all about her background and this and that. And I said, go do it. And she gives me kind of this look in her head like, huh? okay, I'm going to go do this. First thing she did, she started ordering these magazines and industry magazines on sunscreens and this and that and started reading. Anyway, eventually we went out. She went to venture capital to raise some money, raised a ton of money just on her,

no products, just ideas, and basically started luminesole, had to get product made. FDA, it all has, sunscreens all have to be FDA approved. So you got to go through. through approval processes, what is going to make our product, her product different than what else is out there? What are the issues? And so she just started developing what I would consider more of a high-tech look at sunscreen. And because it's a huge problem. It's like skin cancer is a huge problem. People die. I mean, you get melanomas, this and that from the sun. You can die. You know, she started this company. And finally, after three years, hiring people

getting this product done we got product at the house we were supposed to open up April 1st oh great two weeks before the world shut down okay

Sophia is devastated to say the least what was going through your mind I mean you've seen a lot of shit I didn't yeah I never thought it would last this long I would become such a political issue It's just, it's a joke.

I mean, it's just, yeah, people are dying. And if you're in that category of people that can really, really, really get sick from this stuff or potentially die, you better take personal responsibility to take care of yourself. But for the general public, no. You want to know something fucked up? This is true. Yeah. We in this business right now in this office are considered essential.

Oh, good. With what we're doing. But they aren't out there? Yes. But that's, and listen, in my world, because they run this business, I would think, like, oh, that's great. You can keep me essential. keeping up, but I still have the office shut down. But I feel so bad for the small businesses

that are classified as non-essential, because you and I sitting a few feet apart right now are considered essential and allowed to open. Listen, it's going to get political. But certain restaurants, outdoor dining, these people are losing their livelihoods. And it's not fair. Losing their lives. Yeah, it's not fair. There's no thought to that. How do I, how does this business podcasting fall into being essential? I don't know. So what did you say to Sophia when you're about to launch April 1st? Well, it was the pep talk. Well, uh, well, uh, uh, uh, We'll get through this. And she really has.

She's done an amazing job. She was the official sunscreen of Coachella. She was making boots for Coachella. She had the whole thing going. It's going to be this grand opening. And nothing. It's vegan, cruelty-free. Yep.

80 minutes water-resistant. But my favorite thing about this sunscreen is it's pre-and-post makeup application. There's so many sunscreens that you have to put on before your makeup. And that's the problem I have because, Sometimes I want to apply it later and I want to spray it on top of my foundation. So to me, that's amazing. It's also good for all skin tones. Yeah.

What it is is, is I use this cream in the morning under my makeup. It's got a great texture to it. It's great. Kind of somewhat odorless. It's got a little smell. It just kind of smells clean. If I know I'm going to be on the golf course or all that sort of stuff and it applies nicely under your skin and it's a great moisturizer.

And then that one's SPF 30. and I put that under there just for the protection, but sunscreen doesn't last forever. So when I'm out on the golf course, like when I get there, I'll just give, I got the other thing, the mist, and I'll just pump that on. Usually I wear a hat, so I kind of put it like more just like right here. That will last me. Sometimes I'll put it on after the front nine, but it just kind of depends. But that pretty much keeps me. It's SPS 50, the mist, and the cream is SPS 30. So you put that one on first.

when you apply your foundation as like a primer, it sounds like. Yeah. And then you do the mist afterwards. So where are you guys at right now with the company? I love how you probably get 200 calls a day because of your kids. I do. That's your kids all over the place. Feel free to pick up.

Hold on. Kind of amazing. Here we go. Hold on. My dad has that same ringer. Really? It's a lot. You can't miss it anywhere.

Sophia. How did it? go. We're still here. We're talking about lumasole as we speak. As we speak, we're obsessed. It's so cute. Congratulations. Sophia, I heard you're coming on the show at some point. I'm excited. I think I'm coming on next month sometime. Love it. Love it. We're having such a good time. And this missed sunscreen is so major that you can apply it after your makeup's on. Caitlin's giving us all the background on you before you come on. so we know all the right questions ask. I'm going to send you got, oh, you guys got some today, right?

Yes, we got some. Yep. Good. Yeah. Good. Oh, good. Well, I'm glad you love it, and I'm glad it's going well. Call me back when you're done.

We're not too much. We're just doing the little lumasol pitch here. Okay. Yeah. Thanks, guys. You can't wait. Thank you. Okay.

Bye. Bye. The great one. I love that. I love that she was called. That's amazing. I know, right in the middle of it. So you can use the mist after the makeup.

You can use the cream before the makeup. Yeah. And where are you guys at right now with the brand? Are you going to be expanding? What's next? Oh, boy. Oh, Sophia's got a lot of things on the market that are coming up. Lumisole will be a 100% sunscreen company.

Okay. We're not going to kind of branch out. We're going to stay in this marketplace because we believe one in the products and one that people need protection from the sun. I'm the perfect example of what happens, especially for not just sun, but it's kind of like anti-aging. I mean, you know, protect yourself from the sun, you're not going to wrinkle as bad. So all of those types of things. So we're pretty much committed with lumisole to a variety of products. And they're all in, got a lot of ideas, but they're in the making. And the products take a while just because they have to go through

the FDA. Is this the next Kylie Cosmetics? Um, for sunscreen, yes. Love it. Yes. I would love that. We had dinner last night with Kylie and we talked a lot. Kylie and Sophia get along very well. And we talked, Kylie is just the exception to the role. I mean, she's just, she is, all the stars came together, you know, when she started her. She knows how to market too. She does it right. It's not in your face. Yeah. She knows her marketing very well. And she's got actually some exciting changes that are going to happen in the future, which she is extraordinarily excited about to expand this company. You know, Cody came in and bought 51% controlling interest, which was the right thing to do. Kylie and Chris took that company

as far as they could. Cody, massive international company, and that's where they're going international with the company, but also in the manufacturing processes and all the type of stuff, Cody's going to have a really big impact on that. And it's good for them. Yeah, Kylie's got just a great eye when she came out with the first one, the lip kits. Yeah, she knew what the market needed. She came out and it was unique. It was different and boy, it did so. Who is your favorite kid if you had to pick? I had six biological four step. A lot of kids.

Yes, it's a lot of children, 18 grandchildren. Holy shit. Yeah, that's what I said. It's growing. Right now, nobody's pregnant. That's unusual. Maybe someone is pregnant. It's unusual when you have children.

Maybe you don't know. You never know. The kids, it's kind of just, which one's on my good side? It depends on the day. It depends on the day. Today, who's your favorite? Today's, who's my friend. And he keeps calling. That's his second phone call. That's pretty good. That's better than most.

But all my kids, I'm just very blessed. All my kids are great. And they've all grown up to have their own lives. Which is incredible. That's all you can want. That's what you do as a parent. Now, sometimes it gets a little tough when you're sitting at the house Friday night and maybe Sophia's gone or whatever and you're sitting there going, wait a second. I got 10 kids. I've got 18 grandchildren and I'm sitting here all by myself. Nobody's called. You're looking at your phone. And shouldn't somebody be calling me? You know, what? They all have their own lives. Yeah. So you kind of run it. Every parent deals with that. It's nothing new. Last question. I mean, go serious on you before you go, because I think it's important to ask, like, as a parent, as somebody who's successfully transitioned,

if there's young people thinking of transitioning and families trying to have that conversation, how do you suggest they start or are there conversations you wish you could have had when you were younger like what is the best point because i think i think you can help a lot of people by answering that yeah no i i don't have any regrets i was frank sinatra would say i did it my way yeah and everybody does it their way and that's what i would suggest if you are suffering with these issues first of all get some help outside of the family structure therapy whatever it may be somebody to talk to to help you guide through this. It is not easy for parents and all that stuff to go through.

It's better today, certainly, that it was 20, 30 years ago. I mean, I remember one reporter asked me, well, we know when it comes to this, what if Kendall came up to you and said she was going to transition into a guy? And I went, my little Kendall, my gorgeous little girl. And I go, whoa, it kind of personalized it for me on my side. So you kind of get from that standpoint. My theory was always never just never try to hurt anybody.

But the bottom line is you got to do what's right for you. And to do it in a way that you're trying not to burn any bridges, all you say, there still may be some bridges that are going to be burnt because of something like this. But just try to be a loving good person. Love your parents. For parents or kids who are dealing with this issue, especially young kids, provide a loving home for them. The most important thing.

They need to know if they're going to go out into the world and get criticized and be in school and get bullied and stuff, they have to know when they come home, it's a safe place. It's a loving place. Kids need that. And yeah, it's do it when it's right. On the other end, if you do,

like in my case, honestly, I just wake up in the morning and just be myself all day. And that's a wonderful thing to be. Society today can accept it. It's not easy. A lot of people won't. They're accepting of it.

We have a lot of millennials and listening. Can you leave our audience with a book, a podcast, a resource that's brought you a lot of value? Anything that you think is like if someone wants to execute or be a hustler, is there anything that you've read that makes a sense? Oh. Listen to this podcast. Thank you. Thank you. I'll take that.

Yes. Listen to this podcast. Wear your sunscreen. Yeah, wear your sunscreen, listen to this podcast every day. Every day. Yeah. No, just be yourself. That's very good advice.

Be motivated. I remember, okay, trying not to get into this too heavy. What's the secret to life? Everybody always asks that question. Basically, that's what it is. What's the secret to life? Do you ever remember the movie City Slickers with Bill? Crystal. Remember? He's on, he's a New Yorker, wants to get out of New York, trying to find

himself, goes on this cattle drive out in Colorado, sitting around the campfire, just him and Curley, the wise old cowboy played by Jack Palance. So Billy Crystal says, what's the secret to life to this wise old cowboy? And the cowboy looks over at him and says, one thing. And then kind of moves on with the conversation. minute later, two minutes later, Billy Crystal looks back at him because what's the one thing? And he goes, that's for you to find out. That is, to me, the most important thing in life is what is that one thing that when you

wake up in the morning, you just cannot wait for the day to start. Too many people wander through life. They never find their one thing. I was fortunate at a very young age. I found sports. And that was my one thing that was so important. And because of that, I went out and I competed and I grew as a human being and I built a life through that.

And but everybody has that. Everybody has something. And it doesn't have to be sports. It's nothing. It can be anything. It can be learning how to play the piano. I mean, who knows, you might be just this great pianist. You may be a great business person.

You may be a dyslexic kid. But you know what? in your head, you've got great stories that want to come out. Maybe it goes out this way and comes out onto a piece of paper instead of you reading it. You just don't know. So your job as a person is to find that one thing in life. Because when you do it and you know it's the right thing because when you wake up in the morning, you're excited about the day. You can't wait for the day to start because I got so many things to do. Business-wise, whatever it is, that's for you to find out. Well, I can see why had such a successful speaking career

because I'm all fired up now. I'm all joined up. Find your one thing. Well, you guys found this. I mean, this is, you know,

it's motivating, you know. They say a compelling person has strength and warmth. Mm-hmm. You have both. Thank you for coming on. You are,

my pleasure. Incredibly compelling. You can come back anytime. Anytime. I have 800,000 more questions. Oh, we got through the first hundred. Until then.

I know, you're going to go back and read the book and start underlining it, you know, put yellow stuff on. Fine. I got to talk to, I got to talk to Caitlin about.

about this one. I will read that book again. Tell us where they can find your book, the sunscreen. Yeah. I'm sure everyone already follows you. I just pimped yourself up. Yeah, first of all. If you're really, if you're interested with the sunscreen, it's, you know, my lumasol.com. We're all over social media. We're all over. In fact, we're on TikTok. I did a dance on TikTok yesterday. Oh, I'm going to go watch that. Yes. It's on the Lumasol page on TikTok. Yes. Yeah, we do everything to get images and that stuff out there. MyLumisole.com, you can find it there. Great. We got more products coming out in the future. Great sunscreen. Yeah, I got my YouTube channel that's out there. I'm having a lot of fun with that. All kinds of crazy stuff that I do on

there. Yeah, I'm just kind of out there. Yeah, the book is at Amazon on The Secrets of My Life by Caitlin Jenner. It's a great read, as you know. So good. Yeah. And at Caitlin Jenner on Instagram, Sophia is coming on. Let us know any questions that you have for her on my latest Instagram. Thank you for taking the time. That was my pleasure. Thank you so much. Fun coming. Do you know kids yet? One.

Kids, one. Oh, you've got one. Zaza. Ten months. Ten months. Oh, my God, girl. You're looking good. Oh, thanks.

I still got a long way to go. Was it a struggle coming back? Oh, like. That's a whole other show. I don't know how the fuck Chris did six. Yeah. Same thing. Yeah, I know.

It's stuck. For any guy witnessing that, you have a whole disfretion for women after that whole process. And that's the moment I was like, three months postpartum and this motherfucker goes, what's wrong with you? I had to figure it a lot. You know, I hadn't gone through it before. I didn't know. I didn't know the changes that were taking place.

I'm making him pay. Thank you for coming on at my Lumasol. All right. I'm going to go use my sunscreen. Go back and make another little kid. Oh, God. You need to get 10. Oh, look.

We are giving away a bottle of Caitlin and Sophia's new company called Lumasol. So this is a vegan cruelty-free water-resistant pre-and-post makeup application sunscreen. Okay. It's good for all skin tones. All you have to do is tell us your favorite part of this episode on my latest Instagram at the Skinny Confidential and follow my Lumisol. That's M-Y-L-U-M-A-S-O-L. They have some great content about sunscreen on there. And obviously, make sure you've rated and reviewed the show on iTunes.

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